ALL BLOG POSTS AND COMMENTS COPYRIGHT (C) 2003-2018 VOX DAY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. REPRODUCTION WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED.

Saturday, August 17, 2019

New Zealand won't give up its guns

It would appear New Zealanders are not falling for the same sleight-of-law for which the Australians and the English fell so readily:
Once again, responding to a horrendous crime by inflicting knee-jerk, authoritarian restrictions on innocent people proves to be an ineffective means of convincing people to obey. Specifically, New Zealand's government—which also stepped up censorship and domestic surveillance after bloody attacks on two Christchurch mosques earlier this year—is running into stiff resistance to new gun rules from firearms owners who are slow to surrender now-prohibited weapons and will probably never turn them in.

Officials should have seen it coming.

"Police are anticipating a number of people with banned firearms in their possession won't surrender them," Stuff reported at the end of May, based on internal government documents.

As of last week, only around 700 weapons had been turned over. There are an estimated 1.5 million guns—with an unknown number subject to the new prohibition on semiautomatic firearms—in the country overall.
The people of New Zealand have seen what has happened post-gun control in both Australia and England. The violence has gotten worse, not better. The governments have gotten more authoritarian, not less. And given the degraded demographic situation in all these countries, only a complete fool would comply with these intrinsically immoral laws and disarm himself.

Labels: ,

47 Comments:

Blogger Dirk Manly August 17, 2019 6:47 AM  

I didn't think the Kiwis would have it in them. Good for them, and they should serve as a source of inspiration for wavering Americans, too.

Blogger Martin Marprelate August 17, 2019 6:47 AM  

For those who know of the Youtuber The Alternative Hypothesis he argues for this sort of action all the time, "The Peoples Veto". In sufficient numbers we can just say a law doesn't exist, and if they crack down then they look like what they are authoritarian and people will actually start fighting back. Good on New Zealanders.

Blogger Daniele Grech Pereira August 17, 2019 6:52 AM  

From one Angloid colony to another, we salute you, Kiwis.

Blogger Amethyst Dominica August 17, 2019 6:54 AM  

When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "Stick to the Devil you know."

This is not a new trick. Someone was bound to learn about it sooner or later.

Blogger Stilicho August 17, 2019 7:04 AM  

Good for the Kiwis.

Blogger camcleat August 17, 2019 7:18 AM  

Dirk Manly wrote:I didn't think the Kiwis would have it in them. Good for them, and they should serve as a source of inspiration for wavering Americans, too.

Our lads in CT after Sandy Hook were inspirational, too. They thumbed Malloy's eye in a major way, even though he spit and spluttered "muh law!" for a while.

Keep the Faith, Kiwi Brothers! wwgowga

Blogger JACIII August 17, 2019 7:30 AM  

It is pleasantly surprising that such a significant number of kiwis have resisted. A large portion of media effort is directed at making unwilling people facing gun confiscation (or any infringing law) feel isolated and in an insignificant minority and therefore helpless against the state's desire to enforce.

Blogger Cataline Sergius August 17, 2019 7:33 AM  

Time to yell at our own lawmakers.

Ivanka's Red Flag is sailing through behind the scenes with minimal resistance.

Blogger [Redacted] August 17, 2019 7:36 AM  

Long gone are the early days of the gun buyback programs. You would get cash money for each gun you would turn in, so people would spend a couple afternoons making guns out of junkyard scrap, 2x4s, and anything else they could bootstrap into the bare minimum definition of a gun. Police had to buy them - technically they were guns. It was a win-win. Police got inflated turn-in numbers, and local craftsmen got training and pocket money. When politicians finally understood what was going on, and how much money they spent buying shotguns made from used mufflers, they changed gears and reframed the gun grabs as photo shoots. A fair share of the weapons you see piled up are just emptied out evidence lockers.

Only a complete fool would comply with these laws. That is very true. But occasionally, being a complete fool pays.

Blogger wreckage August 17, 2019 7:39 AM  

Kiwis had their Port Arthur about the same time Oz did. Oz went full retard, NZ went to photo ID for gun purchases.

The results were identical, and everyone knows it. I'm surprised they even tried to sell the idea that 20+ years of equaling Australia's results was just a really giant fluke.

Blogger Lovekraft August 17, 2019 8:15 AM  

The recent Philadelphia shooter has ties to local Wahhabite radical (but I repeat myself) mosque. This is early indications where realistic gun control actions are needed - inner city unemployable, hyper-violent and drugged up black males. A purge that the left adores may be in the work. Lots of mosques and their connections to hidden weapons caches.

On our side, there will be an attempt to either give the above demo a pass and focus, like the lunatics they are, solely on isolated white males (they've pretty much made large group gatherings of white males illegal, other than 'sportz'), or pay lip service to us and go after the above.

Related, last couple days saw three UK police violently attacked. Coulter effect confirmed race of attackers. Boris put out a strong warning to Sadhiq Khan and various policies could mean an end to the African-style public shitter policies that is the UK.

How to remove the enclaves is another matter entirely, but I suspect that steps like these may lure out the radicals who will force the issue

Blogger The Observer August 17, 2019 8:25 AM  

The recent Philadelphia shooter has ties to local Wahhabite radical (but I repeat myself) mosque. This is early indications where realistic gun control actions are needed - inner city unemployable, hyper-violent and drugged up black males.

This is one situation where disarmament may be justified -- visibly and obviously different members of another nation residing within your state, prone to troublemaking and lashing out and attacking the people of your nation. They're not likely to pick up arms and fight a tyrannical government -- quite the opposite, if the actions of every such single historical situation from the Sogden in China to Jews in Europe have proven.

Probably no one in Italy would be against disarming gypsies.

Blogger nswhorse August 17, 2019 8:31 AM  

Port Arthur is such a watershed event in the Australian consciousness that nothing subsequent to it has any power to overturn the accepted wisdom that gun control works and did work splendidly to prevent anything like that ever happening again. The programmed response is "we don't want to become America where kids are gunned down every day", and it gets trotted out ad nauseum after every publicised shooting in the US. We have gun control, we don't have mass shootings anymore. The US doesn't have gun control, and they have mass shootings every day. This is what most believe, and it is next to impossible to get most Australians to consider the issue further.

It of course goes without saying that the official story about Port Arthur is a lie. The trial was conducted behind closed doors and the records are sealed. Because why does the public need to know anything about the event that was used as a pretext to disarm us? Just read the papers and believe what you are told. And don't dare utter conspiracy theories, because that is just crazy and an insult to the memory of the victims.

Blogger Cloudbuster August 17, 2019 8:42 AM  

It doesn't mean a thing until they actually use them.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan August 17, 2019 9:00 AM  

In NZ as in America gun control is political opposition disarmament. At FreeRepublic the usual conservative blah blah about guns in NZ and I asked a Kiwi if the Maori and South Pacific gangsters are going to disarm and he basically said they are bragging about not disarming and that by custom the Maori are treated with privilege when it comes to laws like that, oppression and stuff. Same, Same in America Democratic voters will have guns conservatives will still be trying to educate them libruls.

So the stupid Lib/Con game and its narrative are falling by the wayside as VD notes and its failing in this country and I'll bet a dollar it will fail in Aussie, even as the dopey Lib/Cons chant their mantra, and it will especially fail in Europe being so close to the former ComBloc and its stash of stuff.

Buy firearms, ammo and training.

Blogger Karhu August 17, 2019 9:11 AM  

Over month old news, the Official figure as of 5 days ago is 15,511, see for example https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/08/12/new-zealand-10-000-guns-turned-after-christchurch-mosque-shooting/1984496001/

Blogger Halvar Andersen August 17, 2019 9:18 AM  

Cataline Sergius wrote:Time to yell at our own lawmakers.

Ivanka's Red Flag is sailing through behind the scenes with minimal resistance.


This. Probably more so this time than leaving a message at the White House or tweeting to Trump about it. If it makes it to his desk and Ivanka is pushing it with dewy eyes, would he really not sign it?

Blogger Cataline Sergius August 17, 2019 9:22 AM  

@16 Karhu

A lot of what we get told about the success of gun control in other countries is propagantastic fiction.

The numbers smell inflated to me and I'm the anti-conspiracy guy here.

If gun control does come here I know which guns I'm turning in and those which I am certain will be stolen the last time I moved.

Blogger StrongCoffee61 August 17, 2019 9:30 AM  

When Trump first took office he instituted a rule that any new regulation had to be offset with the elimination of 2 old regulations.

He should apply a similar principle to any new gun legislation.

For example, any red flag flaw should be accompanied by a $100 voucher from the federal government to buy guns and ammo for everybody who passes a background check.

Make it harder for crazy people to legally buy guns and easier for the rest of us, and expose the Left for being against the critically important civil right of gun ownership.

Also Trump should repeatedly remind people of how defenseless the peasants of Russia and China were when the Leftists decided work them to death as politically incorrect slave labor.





Blogger Dirk Manly August 17, 2019 9:37 AM  

@18

"A lot of what we get told about the success of gun control in other countries is propagantastic fiction."

Of course.

The gun-control nuts used to always point to Great Britain as the model for gun control, and their extremely low murder rates.

Then Scotland Yard started stopped counting murders based on the number of criminal convictions for murder, and started counting murders by the number of bodies of people who had died of unnatural causes not judged to be suicide..... and the per-capita murder rate immediately jumped to 4x the U.S. rate. And that was back in the 1990's! Britain's per-capita murder rate is even higher now.

Blogger Unknown August 17, 2019 9:37 AM  

Compliance with the confiscation was not all that high in Australia either, one study I saw put it at roughly 24%. Connecticut in the US has seen similar very low compliance rate with their standard capacity magazine ban and "assault weapon" ban. Gun owners in that state are daring the state authorities to try and enforce it. The state, at least so far, has blinked.

National level gun laws will be similarly ignored. Most gun owner I know, me included, are not going to comply.

The State can try to enforce confiscation, if they want, but the correlation of forces is heavily unfavorable to them, and they know it. It's the politicians that are totally out to lunch.

New Zealand's experience with their ban is what happens when you ban and demand turn in without a registry, and that is why any attempt to create a registry in the US is met with heavy resistance.
-Unknownsailor-

Blogger Stilicho August 17, 2019 9:39 AM  

Repeal 34 act. Repeal 68 act.

Blogger Brett baker August 17, 2019 9:40 AM  

Disarming them won't do much. You have to eliminate them from the general public. Long term prison sentences are our friends.

Blogger Wilkes Marprelate August 17, 2019 9:42 AM  

Trudeau's government in Canada has been floating the idea of banning all handguns and generally putting more restrictions on guns all because of that Muslim guy who shot up Toronto a year or so ago (but it wasn't a terrorist attack- and he wasn't an anti-white bigot, even though he was following ISIS and when a Sikh fellow was face to face with him, he told the guy (a pretty close paraphrasing), don't worry, bro, I'm not after you, I'm only here to kill the whites- then let him go).
Since Trudeau has pushed it, there has been a growing push back. Apparently since his election in '15, gun sales in Canada have exploded. So many are going for gun training and joined gun clubs that gun clubs are often full. I've been told by people how they are either going to sadly 'lose their guns' in an unfortunate boating accident or that they are already hiding guns now out of fear of the possible new regulations. If Trudeau loses to Scheer (a really weak 'conservative' leader here), all of this likely won't happen (though no promises that some will, as seems to be the typical thing so many 'conservatives' do i.e., cave a bit on issues), but if Trudeau wins, all bets are off (even though even the police chiefs association, who tend to be politicized a bit towards the left; unlike rank and file police, have said they think such laws are a bad idea that will do no good).
The gun grabbers are all over. They need to, because they know things are brewing throughout most, if not all, of the West.

Blogger Karhu August 17, 2019 9:47 AM  

@17 Halvar Andersen:

"Cataline Sergius wrote:
Time to yell at our own lawmakers.

Ivanka's Red Flag is sailing through behind the scenes with minimal resistance.

This. Probably more so this time than leaving a message at the White House or tweeting to Trump about it. If it makes it to his desk and Ivanka is pushing it with dewy eyes, would he really not sign it?"

I've figured out why McConnell is supporting these new laws so strongly, which makes it more likely they'll make it to Trump's desk. If you haven't already read the first part of Peter Schweizer's Secret Empires, or any articles about it after it was published, the important factor is that he and his paper American Chinese wife owe their fortunes to the PRC.

And the PRC *really* wants Trump gone ASAP, he's holding their feet to the fire on trade, and they're suffering while not giving in. No other domestic issue has an inflection point like Trump signing the anti-gun laws he's been supporting since Parkland, especially a "Take the guns first, go through due process second" Red Flag law which he's already using to score political points: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1161277403353759744

Blogger Karhu August 17, 2019 9:53 AM  

@21. Unknown:

"Compliance with the confiscation was not all that high in Australia either, one study I saw put it at roughly 24%. Connecticut in the US has seen similar very low compliance rate with their standard capacity magazine ban and "assault weapon" ban."

I would guess compliance in Connecticut and New York state is closer to 1%, although we don't know how many gun owners are leaving the state or parking their now illegal guns and magazines in another state, something not possible with the Australian and New Zealand nationwide laws.

Americans are a lot harder core on this, one really good explanation for our unique gun culture is that it arose from our frontier battles with feather Indians: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/11/21/the-american-indian-foundation-of-american-gun-culture/

Blogger basementhomebrewer August 17, 2019 10:27 AM  

New Zealand's experience with their ban is what happens when you ban and demand turn in without a registry, and that is why any attempt to create a registry in the US is met with heavy resistance.

Except as noted, legislation is moving with Trumps verbal support for "universal background checks". There has not been a huge outcry yet about it but anyone with the least bit of intelligence understands that law is defacto registration. Especially with the shenanigans during the Obama administration of ATF agents showing up at gun stores with a scanner and scanning every form 4473 in their files.

Blogger Damelon Brinn August 17, 2019 11:42 AM  

the Official figure

Good one.

Ivanka is pushing it with dewy eyes

1. Do you love your daughter and want her to be happy?
2. Do you give her everything she asks for, including a pony?

I'm amazed how many people still think this way, despite repeated instances of "White House insiders (Jared/Ivanka) pushing Trump to do X" headlines followed by Trump not doing X. Would you really have voted for him if you thought he was that big a pussy?

Blogger Ominous Cowherd August 17, 2019 12:10 PM  

Damelon Brinn wrote:I'm amazed how many people still think this way, despite repeated instances of "White House insiders (Jared/Ivanka) pushing Trump to do X" headlines followed by Trump not doing X.

basementhomebrewer wrote:Except as noted, legislation is moving with Trumps verbal support for "universal background checks".

Trump has been talking up backdoor registration, and Federal red flag laws. He may not let Ivanka have this pony; he often says things he has no intention of delivering on. That's going to hurt him here.

Gun owners hear Trump talking this way, and they see another lying politician who runs Right and governs Left - gun-grabbing Left. If Trump offers the Left a poison pill involving gun control and we get no gun control as Trump planned, gun owners just see another lying gun grabber in the White House. Since Trump has actually done more gun control damage than 0bammy, he has hurt himself with gun owners and has very little room to maneuver on this front.

Does that all seem idiotic? MPAI.

We can still hope that Trump's bump stock ban gets overturned and takes out a broad swath of existing regulations with it. There was speculation that was his intent. Actually finding a judge who will do that, and actually getting it done before 2020, and actually making it look to normie gun owners as if Trump planned it that way all along, doesn't look likely.

Blogger robins111 August 17, 2019 12:51 PM  

Those numbers are absurd bullshit. They're including firearms that up till that minute sat on gun racks at an outdoors store, and corporate warehouses for the same crew. Further, they've never seen anything like those numbers turned in. The lying liberals in Canada pulled the same bull, they knew there was over 25 million long guns in Canada, a large part domestically made, when their famous registry showed only about 5 million registered, they claimed only 6 million long guns, and that they'd got the majority in the registry. Then bragged about their success.

Blogger sammibandit August 17, 2019 1:10 PM  

The courts in Berta and Sask keep trying to convict rural people using guns as defense against crime. It doesn't work and just further galvanizes the prairies against gun grabs. They'll have to stop arresting victims of crime for using guns because we keep showing up in mobs at the court house.

In our most recent provincial election the only burg that stayed NDP, a Socialist Internationale party for those not familiar with canpoli, was the capital Edmonton. 2 constituencies have a margin of one hundred or hundreds of voters in the orange. Point being the NDP protest vote last cycle was just that and not an earnest decision.

Blogger HouellebecqGurl August 17, 2019 1:17 PM  

Here in the US they've claimed for at least a decade that there are 300 million firearms here. A math guy a year or two back did a deeper dive into the numbers and he says that there are at least 400-500 million.
I don't know if he's right or not, but the government has also been saying there are 11 million illegals here since the early 00s,and we've had about 100 thousand every month more or less since it first became the agreed upon number.

tl;dr I never trust government numbers of anything

Blogger Ominous Cowherd August 17, 2019 2:23 PM  

HouellebecqGurl wrote:A math guy a year or two back did a deeper dive into the numbers and he says that there are at least 400-500 million.

Guns have to be used really hard to wear them out. Guns sitting in a dry closet will last for centuries. I have modern guns that are over 100 years old, take ammunition that is still easily available, and are still accurate. I have MBRs that are at least 40 years old and good as new.

It would be overstating the case to say that every gun ever sold in the US is still in service, but not by much.

Blogger Richard Rahl August 17, 2019 2:48 PM  

Looks like the Kiwis have a big collective pair of kiwis... Right On! If the elite try and escape to NZ when everything hits the fan, they'll now have to deal with an armed populace.

Blogger Wilkes Marprelate August 17, 2019 3:06 PM  

Yep, split vote got you the NDP. I'm on the west coast (beautiful place full of self loathing white liberals), but even here there is a growing number of gun owners (per someone close to me who was told this by his gun instructor when he was working towards getting all his gun licensing done. The guy said he's never seen so many apply for licensing and join gun clubs in all his years doing it; including while he was with the RCMP and CSIS. He noted it was almost as many women as men doing it, too and in some of the most 'liberal' places (such as where I am). Guaranteed, mostly white people, too. He also mentioned that, from his experience working in both Canada and the US, that he thinks Canadians will use firearms to fight back (when the time come) before Americans. He's found Americans are all talk, but he doesn't get the sense they'd actually go through with it so often, whereas Canadians have been quietly becoming rage filled and one day he expects they'll just do it. No talk, no bluster. More like the Canadian soldiers of old who were among the fiercest fighters during the World Wars. I guess we'll see, but it's interesting he said that. I think this is a big reason the Trudeau government wants to clamp down. They know this is boiling and may boil over soon enough. It won't be the Islamic terrorist they'll have to worry about then, it'll be a mass of white people who will say enough (and if they're half way decent at living off the land in the wilderness, they can really wreak havoc- out here, with our mountains, are a great place to run a guerrilla campaign). We are indeed living in 'interesting' times.

Blogger weka August 17, 2019 3:36 PM  

It does not help when:
1. The cops are now strutting around with AR-15s I'm pretty sure they don't know how to use.
2. You get phone calls from said cops because someone complains you were snarky on Facebook (Yes, I'd left Facebook and deactivated the account months ago).
3. The national news is all praise Saudis for sending the Mosque members to Teh Haj.

and...if you return your new gun, with receipts, you don't get the full price back but around 80%. This government is facing a class action suit.

BTW, the same gov't has an insurance company to deal with the earthquake claims and repairs of the first repairs. The Gov't is estimated to be 1 Billion in the hole due to civil servants defrauding claimants.

The same government won't build roads or allow oil exploitation.

There will be an election next year, and the same government is trying to screw the system so they can cheat their way back into power.

All this is why I don't live in town anymore.

Blogger God Emperor Memes August 17, 2019 3:47 PM  

No, immediate execution is our friend.

Blogger sunaj August 17, 2019 5:54 PM  

NEW ZEALANDERS-you have EARNED the greatest RESPECT from AMERICAN PATRIOTS/CONSTITUTIONALISTS for your BRAVERY-
you have DEMONSTRATED that your CURRENT GOVERNMENT has NO CREDIBILITY
and should RESIGN
signed,
AMERICAN PATRIOTS!

Blogger Doktor Jeep August 17, 2019 6:05 PM  

I trained two teenagers in advanced marksmanship today.

You see when you are too Omega or lost to have kids, you can still help by teaching existing kids the skills they are going to need. It's not enough to just have kids else you are just creating and raising future mass grave filler.
Lots of exasperated dads lack the time and skills to train their sons to be truly effective.
I'm the monk who does.

Blogger John E. Boyle August 17, 2019 6:33 PM  

Doktor Jeep:

Warrior Monk is an honorable calling.

Blogger Unknown August 17, 2019 6:42 PM  

HouellebecqGurl wrote:Here in the US they've claimed for at least a decade that there are 300 million firearms here. A math guy a year or two back did a deeper dive into the numbers and he says that there are at least 400-500 million.

I don't know if he's right or not, but the government has also been saying there are 11 million illegals here since the early 00s,and we've had about 100 thousand every month more or less since it first became the agreed upon number.

tl;dr I never trust government numbers of anything


It was 300 million in the 1990s, and during Obama's two terms alone there were more than 120 million Brady background checks run by dealers. Assuming 80% figure of one new gun per check, that is 92 million new guns in circulation.

I personally think the real figure is north of 500 million, myself. It is estimated that AR-15 pattern rifles alone are north of 19 million, with most of those being sold since the sunset of the 1994 Federal AWB.

Hoplophobes don't really get it that gun owners have been remarkably constrained in their response to the constant encroachment on their rights. Minimally competent Michael Dorner managed to bring law enforcement to a standstill in LA, imagine if twenty people with far more training and intelligence did the same thing in twenty liberal dominated cities....
There are still no suspects in the Metcalf electrical transformer attack in California, and that was 6 years ago.
-Unknownsailor-

Blogger English Tom August 17, 2019 11:06 PM  

A feller called Joe Vialls did some excellent investigating on Port Arthur many years ago. He claims it was a FF and Bryant was a sub normal intelligence, used as a patsy.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan August 18, 2019 7:30 AM  

It's like people mouth the platitudes but don't really believe it. Damn who here would dare say the Lib/Con game is a joke?

Blogger robins111 August 18, 2019 9:01 AM  

Wilkes, its gone beyond boiling over, there's people who have already decided to pre-emptively deal with the libs and gun grabbers. Interestingly, they seem to be wanting to nail the media types instead of just crooked politicians.

Blogger Dirk Manly August 18, 2019 11:42 PM  

The media types often provide pressure on politicians to vote for gun confiscation measures that they wouldn't otherwise do, if not for the media spilling buckets of ink attacking those politicians. Additionally, the media types NEVER stand up for the individual's right to defend themselves. EVER.

Therefore, the media is the higher target. They are the ones who are attempting to set the moral level of the conflict to "evil is proper."

Blogger PG August 19, 2019 6:12 AM  

I hear even their boomers aren't handing any in. Oh shit, nothing worse that pissed off boomers with guns.

Blogger Dirk Manly August 19, 2019 7:13 PM  

No Boomer has ever thought that the rules apply, personally, to himself, too.

Post a Comment

Rules of the blog
Please do not comment as "Anonymous". Comments by "Anonymous" will be spammed.

<< Home

Newer Posts Older Posts