Sunday, September 15, 2019

Paper vs blood

Paper Americans discover that not everyone is inclined to pretend that paper is thicker than blood:
Two young Americans, Victor and Cynthia Liu, are “trapped” in China, increasingly desperate and despondent because Chinese authorities have blocked them from leaving for more than a year.

“They are trapped. They are alone. They are desperate to come home,” David Pressman, the siblings’ New York-based attorney, told USA TODAY. “They are literally breaking down.”

The Lius are subject to a so-called “exit ban,” and they’re not they only ones.

Another American citizen, Huang Wan, says Chinese officials are using a “fake” legal case to prevent her from returning to the United States. An Australian resident, Yuan Xiaoliang, has been barred from leaving China for more than eight months, and her husband, an Australian citizen, has been arrested on suspicion of spying, according to Australia’s foreign minister.

The State Department has warned Americans about China’s growing use of exit bans – stating in a Jan. 3 travel advisory that Chinese authorities have sometimes used exit bans to keep Americans in China for years.... Thomas Kellogg, executive director of the Center for Asian Law at Georgetown University Law Center, said China has long used exit bans to stop its own citizens from leaving the country, particularly human-rights activists or other dissidents. But authorities are increasingly using the tactic to harass Americans and other foreign nationals, particularly those of Chinese descent, he said.
What defines a man? Is it is his paperwork? Or is it his DNA? It's extremely informative to see who is on the side of science and the truth and who is not. The obvious and relevant logic dictates that one cannot simply declare a Chinese man to be an "American" due to his beliefs any more than one can declare a man to be a "woman" or a "fish" on that basis.

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Blogger Daniel September 15, 2019 7:51 PM  

The proper wording of that final sentence is a good example of Owen's "wizardry" at work. What it says is that Americans are being kidnapped by their host country, but what it quite obviously really refers to is:

"But [China is] increasingly using the tactic to [detain] Chinamen and other Chinamen, particularly those of Chinese descent."

Blogger David Ray Milton September 15, 2019 7:56 PM  

It’s just parents grounding their kids on a national level.

Blogger bodenlose Schweinerei September 15, 2019 8:02 PM  

Why would they need to leave China anyhow? Can't they just be American wherever they're at as long as they believe hard enough? After all, Ideas Brook No Borders!

Blogger Dave September 15, 2019 8:03 PM  

They just need to get their social credit score up to snuff. Then they'll be fine.

Blogger MATT September 15, 2019 8:20 PM  

Why would anyone want to visit China?
I walk around Chinatown and Flushing and want to vomit. Savage beasts. Wild, and without souls.

Blogger justaguy September 15, 2019 8:21 PM  

Why did they even go there? Did these people think that the government of China is a weak-kneed as is the US or Aussie governments? If you are there as a guest act like one or remember that you are a small tadpole in a pond with big government fish. I haven't heard that the generic businessman who just transacts business and play tourist and spend $ has any issues-- but try to treat the Chinese government as we treat our government-- well good luck.

Blogger John September 15, 2019 8:23 PM  

"The disgraced figures in this instance are Huang's husband and her father-in-law, who were charged and convicted in corruption cases."

So, Chinese criminals fled to America a few years ago and had kids. Then they went back to China. Lol. Hopefully China will detain them indefinitely.

Blogger Dan in Georgia September 15, 2019 8:30 PM  

The perils of watching too much Seinfeld:
Sino-American tourist: "I just looooove being detained against my will!!"
Chinese bureaucrat: "Really? That make no sense."
Tourist: "Why not put me in a gulag for 20 years while you're at it?"
Bureaucrat: "Really? OK, if that what you want."
Tourist: "Why not go get my whole family while you're at it!"
Bureaucrat: "OK, we can do that. You weird."
Tourist: "I just love how you do things here."
Bureaucrat: "You insane. You put on this straight jacket. Now."
Tourist: "I just love the tailoring."

Blogger Crew September 15, 2019 8:31 PM  

Well, if a Chinese person declared themself to be a fish, they would be eaten!

Blogger Doktor Jeep September 15, 2019 8:53 PM  

Their people, their prerogative.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother September 15, 2019 8:59 PM  

My father was an official guest of the Taiwanese government in the 1970's on several occasions to advocate against the Communist Chinese government. Since he and I have the same name, I always figured travel to China was always out of the question.

Blogger Homesteader September 15, 2019 9:07 PM  

Doesn't Article 5 of the Chinese Nationality Law cover a broad swath of overseas Chinese?

Blogger Brett baker September 15, 2019 9:14 PM  

Back when the West was confident, the Chinese wouldn't have done this. Of course, we probably would care even less about this.

Blogger #7139 September 15, 2019 9:20 PM  

Awww, the poor little things.

Blogger VFM #7634 September 15, 2019 9:22 PM  

Incidentally, Europeans think Americans are weird or even ridiculous for considering European nationalities by blood instead of paper, such as considering German-Americans to be "German" but not ethnic Turks with German citizenship. But I mean, duh... who actually looks German? The Irish are particularly notorious with their "plastic paddy" insult.

As a side note, "Paper vs blood" also nicely covers "Democrat vs Republican"

Blogger Dave Dave September 15, 2019 9:53 PM  

"Australian resident, Yuan Xiaoling"
Call them what they are. A Chinese citizen. But even if they were Australian citizens, they'd still be Chinese. Melbourne is extremely Chinese. Box Hill and Glen Waverley are majority Chinese areas that don't speak a lot of English. In my street there's a Chinese woman running a shitty store that nobody goes into to try and become a permanent resident and a citizen. It's operating at a loss but the Chinese will do anything to become foreign citizens. I'm confident that many are being sponsored by the Chinese government to go overseas and spread the Asian Invasion.

Blogger Dave Dave September 15, 2019 10:01 PM  

@7. There's a whole business in Australia where Chinese women get pregnant in China then give birth to the babies over here. The babies become citizens, they get cash from the government for having a baby, they sell it off for adoption, then return back to China.
Another tactic is giving birth in Australia so the baby becomes a citizen, then through that child the mother can import the entire family. I know a lot of instances of this happening.
Australia is 30% foreign born and that doesn't include foreign citizens born in Australia and granted birthright citizenship. A third of the country has pure Australian heritage. This country is going to die, then all us foreign citizens are going back to our home countries.

Blogger Dan in Georgia September 15, 2019 10:05 PM  

They're doing that here in the US too. Maternity Tourism or something like that. Kids are US citizens upon birth and family has permanent residency.

Blogger Lazarus September 15, 2019 10:33 PM  

MATT wrote:Why would anyone want to visit China?

I walk around Chinatown and Flushing and want to vomit. Savage beasts. Wild, and without souls.

You are so fucked. That is a fucking lie. I know Chinese people. They are simply people like all the rest. Kill yourself to heal the world.

Blogger Dave Dave September 15, 2019 10:41 PM  

@19. You don't know Chinese people. They do not have any concept of morality unless they have been thoroughly Westernised. It's an understatement to call the Chinese savage. They have a total disregard for human life.

Blogger doctrev September 15, 2019 10:42 PM  

America has the greatest President in more than a century, but you could be descended from the Mayflower settlers and still be in trouble if you visit China and make waves. How and why would the President get you out? Meng Wanzhou is as Chinese as the Ming dynasty, and she's in a Canadian jail on an American extradition request. Not even blood ties to China's corporate leadership helped there. The President could probably get his own children released, but they're not getting into that situation for the same reasons Donald Trump hasn't had to pay +$50 million in ransom money to MS-13.

Your nation isn't determined by your paperwork, but your blood means just as little in the face of a determined government.

Blogger doctrev September 15, 2019 10:45 PM  

Dave Dave wrote:@19. You don't know Chinese people. They do not have any concept of morality unless they have been thoroughly Westernised. It's an understatement to call the Chinese savage. They have a total disregard for human life.

Yeah, he doesn't mean that the Chinese are somehow completely primitive. It's more like there are a LOT of them with zero regard for other Chinese people. Never mind white people. Even in the most tolerant parts of North America there are a lot of people who feel really free to talk about nearly psychotic Chinese self-interest and arrogance, because it happens all the time!

Blogger Jandolin September 15, 2019 10:48 PM  

Birth tourism by Chinese tourists is a serious problem in the US. Trump said he would end birthright citizenship before the 2018 midterm elections. He never mentioned birthright citizenship after the elections.

Blogger Crew September 15, 2019 11:02 PM  

@23: He's just biden his time!

Blogger thalios September 15, 2019 11:03 PM  

@Dan in Georgia - Outstanding channeling of Big Bear.

Blogger Jim the Curmudgeon September 15, 2019 11:17 PM  

I love North Americans and how they think that Chinese are just like us, but harder working. No, they have a different mentality altogether. When you think about it, the Chinese alive today survived generations of brutal competition against other Chinese people. In some areas, entire family trees could die out in a couple of generations if crops proved elusive, or if the family was out-competed by neighboring families. They are used to constant competition, and have no respect for the weak or slothful. (Hence their low opinion of Africans).

Half of my family are overseas British who worked in East Asia for multiple generations. I grew up around a ton of Chinese, mostly from HK and Taiwan, befriending some and competing with a ton of them in school. In general I am quite fond of Chinese people.

There are, however, provisos. The massive rates of Asian academic misconduct is one example. I would wager that the reports of scientific misconduct are related, since one can expect a student who cheated through a BSc and MSc or PhD to continue cheating when in industry or academia.

Having said that, I'd take Chinese over Afghans, Pakis, Arabs, Somalis, Bantu (etc) anyday. Hell, I prefer them over left wing whites.

Blogger Jim September 15, 2019 11:44 PM  

"I grew up around a ton of Chinese, mostly from HK and Taiwan..."

Sorry, but you're talking about people that escaped the Cultural Revolution. It would be a mistake to generalize this tiny minority to the wider mainland population.

A people that had no respect for the slothful would not have "mei ban fa" as a motto for life.

Blogger Sargent.matrim September 15, 2019 11:57 PM  

I am enjoying these situations so much. I love that China rejects paper citizenship, because it should be rejected.

It is also a powerful argument to use with the multicultural types: look at that culture over there, they reject your entire notion of citizenship and civil policy, but they are happy to use the flaws in our system to advance their nation and culture.

Even liberals are starting to see this over here.

The more China flexes it's muscle, the more people are waking up to what multi-culturalism is doing to us in the west.

Blogger Frank Spank September 16, 2019 12:22 AM  

My Taiwanese ladyfriend duals nationalities. Her pregnant mother skipped over stateside, spat her out, then skipped back hone a few months later. Not an unusual practice. She's about as American as Jorge Gilberto Ramos Ávalos.

Blogger Robin September 16, 2019 12:48 AM  

I recall going to China with student groups whilst in university. Locals would approach the foreign-born Chinese students and pointedly ask them “where are your friends from?” Met with protests that everyone was from Canada, they would deny it. To them, being Chinese is a racial thing, pure and simple, no matter where one was born or raised. Paper nationalists are simply not prepared to live in the real world, full of tribes bound to each other by blood.

Blogger furor kek tonicus ( if you don't want to Racist, you must confess: Islam is right about the Jews ) September 16, 2019 1:06 AM  

so, we've had Jus sanguinis millennia and Jus soli for centuries.

this new thing should be termed Jus papyrus?

also interesting to note how rare Jus soli is in the rest of the world. India and Malta did away with it in the 1980s. and the Dominican Republic is ejecting all Haitians that have entered / been born in the DR since the 1920s.

Blogger OvergrownHobbit September 16, 2019 1:50 AM  

What defines a man? Is it is his paperwork? Or is it his DNA?

His soul.

Blogger mike September 16, 2019 1:54 AM  

But we will not go back to tribalism, anyone can point at the obvious, the solution is much much harder. Fear of the different is a gamma trait, alphas do not give a sh*t they will punish anyone not following them. The tribe is an alpha following not a bond of blood. A worst despicable person can be linked by blood its not a fukking badge of honor. A followers of gawd emperor are a better tribe than any related by blood pool of boomers. Someone had to say this... there will be no white only countries and its not because of (((juice))) but because of alphas.

Blogger Homesteader September 16, 2019 2:40 AM a BRILLIANT observation.

Because no Alphas ever existed, before now?

Tribalism was just gammas, all the way down, through history, forever.

Got it.

Blogger wahr01 September 16, 2019 2:42 AM  

mike wrote: Fear of the different is a gamma trait


In ancient times, a group of tribesmen saw a stranger running toward them with a spear:
One ran.
One readied his weapon.
One walked up and asked if he was there for fondue.

That last one didn't live long enough to reproduce.

Blogger Titanium Bear September 16, 2019 3:10 AM  

@.33 Mike
I was born on a USAFB in Morocco. Does that make me an Arab, Arab American, or African American? I lived in 3 foreign countries and several states before i was 13. Xenophobia is real

Blogger Steb September 16, 2019 3:45 AM  

For "human-rights activists or other dissidents", read "people who got caught embezzling money and hired PR firms to get positive press in the USA"

To read the western press you'd think no foreigner ever broke the law and that other countries courts just pick people at random and started 'persecuting' them.

Blogger wahr01 September 16, 2019 3:48 AM  


Not only is xenophobia real, it is an ethical duty of governments, nations, and local communities.

Without it they are overrun and cease to exist.

Blogger Titanium Bear September 16, 2019 4:22 AM  


Blogger Garuna September 16, 2019 4:50 AM  

The tribe is an alpha following not a bond of blood.

Bullshit. Firstly, diversity doesn't even exist in most of the world. So this discussion of "alpha vs. blood" is irrelevant. Secondly, wherever diversity does exist, most people practice ethnic nepotism, i.e. foreigners can barely get in, let alone be the alpha.

Blogger Emmett Fitz-Hume September 16, 2019 5:16 AM  

Dave Dave wrote:@19. You don't know Chinese people. They do not have any concept of morality unless they have been thoroughly Westernised. It's an understatement to call the Chinese savage. They have a total disregard for human life.

I see you've observed the way the Chinese drive. Total disregard for human life.

Blogger Xellos September 16, 2019 5:18 AM  

>literally breaking down

What, are they lepers?

Blogger ZhukovG September 16, 2019 5:25 AM  

@mike: Not go back to tribalism? Humanity has never left it. It was only the global dominance of the European Tribes(Nations) that allowed the luxury of Enlightenment fantasies.

Now we are threatened, so we must put away luxuries and childishness. We must prepare to do the hard things once more.

Blogger VD September 16, 2019 6:00 AM  

His soul.

That's retarded Christian virtue-signaling. Since only God can judge the soul, how can it possibly be utilized to determine human groups?

Even worse, it borders on blasphemy. Are you asserting that men can determine differences between one soul and another?

Blogger The Foolproof September 16, 2019 6:43 AM  

The absolute state of Australian “conservatism”: when a foreign-born Chinese MP was recently outed as having been in a propaganda agency of the Chinese government for many years, how do you think our PM responded? Address the concerns of the opposition and the electorate? Nope, he went with “Labor r real racists”. Things are worse than I’d thought if the Chinese government can already place Manchurian candidates in Australian Parliament.

Vox has placed Australia’s odds of long-term survival at zero, and I’d agree. Can leaving for Europe now be justified if I already know I’ll have to eventually?

Blogger Gettimothy September 16, 2019 6:53 AM  

"Another American citizen, Huang Wan, says Chinese officials are using a “fake” legal case ..."

That sympathy card expired . Thank the corrupt fed govt for that

Blogger Dave Dave September 16, 2019 7:08 AM  

@45. I sent the picture of that electorate's election to all my friends. It was a Chinese lady vs another Chinese lady. There was no winning. I think the Labor woman may have been Taiwanese, but the Labor party wants to import hundreds of thousands more Chinese as well so it makes no difference. Both the LNP and the ALP are traitors.

Blogger Bobiojimbo September 16, 2019 7:26 AM  

I was just talking about stuff like this with my friends last night. Wish I had read this earlier. Thanks for sharing VD.

Blogger Damelon Brinn September 16, 2019 7:41 AM  

They have a total disregard for human life.

An afternoon spent watching videos of accidents in China should convince anyone they're different. The way bystanders react, or more specifically don't react, stands out.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd September 16, 2019 7:57 AM  

Jim wrote:A people that had no respect for the slothful would not have "mei ban fa" as a motto for life.

Shouldn't that be mei yo ban fa?

Damelon Brinn wrote:An afternoon spent watching videos of accidents in China should convince anyone they're different. The way bystanders react, or more specifically don't react, stands out.

If you aren't family, you don't matter. If a stranger gets killed, so what?

Blogger Roman Daoist September 16, 2019 8:42 AM  

So the Chinese are applying Chinese rules on Chinese people in China.

And some people in the West are, - surprised by this?

This is embarrassing.

Blogger Mystic On Main September 16, 2019 9:05 AM  

"THE SOUL!"....That's retarded Christian virtue-signaling. Since only God can judge the soul, how can it possibly be utilized to determine human groups?"

That's exactly what it is: Retarded...for he reasons VD gives and a number of others. The question is "What defines a man?" Until there is a easily accessible and affordable "soul seeing machine", this is indeed a retarded response.

But it's not a binary choice either, unless you want to limit how to "know" a man. We are all much more than our paper and our biology.

Blogger Fozzy Bear September 16, 2019 9:36 AM  

@dave dave only if they have a time machine. Australia abolished jus soli in 1986. Since then at least one of the parents must be a citizen or permanent resident for the baby to become a citizen by birth.

Blogger The Greay Man September 16, 2019 9:39 AM  

I've wondered this myself - Chinatown in San Francisco is too valuable of land, no way they can all pay for the empty buildings and cheap tourist shops there.

China could pay all that rent. Easily

Blogger VFM #7634 September 16, 2019 9:52 AM  


You make the progtard mistake of assuming immigration restrictionists "fear" the immigrants, and therefore alphas will ipso facto be pro-immigration or at least indifferent.

There are many reasons alphas would be immigration restrictionist. Not wanting to live in a shithole with its myriad inconveniences is a big one. Not wanting to see the nation you love screwed over is another.

Get real.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 16, 2019 11:02 AM  

mike wrote:Someone had to say this.
While true, this is no indication of some masked understanding, suppressed for fear of something or other. You are not Speaking Truth to Power here. You are missing a perfect chance to learn.
This is absolutely the stupidest possible take, but as you say, "someone had to say it.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd September 16, 2019 12:12 PM  

mike wrote:Someone had to say this...

If you are compelled to spout idiotic drivel, the compulsion is internal. None of us are forcing you to demonstrate your idiocy.

Blogger John Kim September 16, 2019 1:27 PM  

repatriating the genetic chinese, nice

Blogger Dan in Georgia September 16, 2019 1:38 PM  

Only took 30 seconds to come up with it. It seemed to fit the story. I was a fan of Seinfeld until the no laughtrack episode that Owen did. It truly is a show about a bunch of psychopaths using people.

Blogger Up from the pond September 17, 2019 12:44 AM  


Ditto. Despite the opposition of trash, this is becoming more obvious all the time.

Blogger Dirk Manly September 17, 2019 12:48 PM  

Why were the Liu's in China in the first place?

If the answer was "visiting childhood friends" or "visiting relatives" then that tells us who they really are.

Blogger jkmack September 17, 2019 5:34 PM  

What defines a nazi. Because Chinese government look like nazi's to me, unless you want to claim they are stalinists, we can quibble over that differentiation if it pleases you.

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