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Saturday, September 07, 2019

"You should just sue them"

This outcome in the Mignogna lawsuit is precisely why I unmercifully ridicule those morons who jabber about how people should "just sue" everyone who criticizes or crosses them in any way.
Following Friday’s hearing in Tarrant County District Court, Judge John P. Chupp ruled to dismiss the majority of the charges against Funimation, Jamie Marchi, Monica Rial, and Ron Toye in the ongoing defamation lawsuit brought by Dragon Ball Super: Broly voice actor Vic Mignogna.

Friday’s hearing was to rule on the defendants’ respective Motions to Dismiss under the Texas Citizens Participation Act (TCPA). Judge Chupp dismissed the case against Marchi along with the charges of tortious interference of existing contracts and tortious interference of business relations allegations against Rial and Toye and the charges of tortious interference and civil conspiracy against Funimation. Judge Chupp has 30 days to rule on the charges of defamation against Funimation, Rial, and Toye, as well as a charge of conspiracy against Rial and Toye....

As per the TCPA, Chupp’s ruling will require Mignogna to cover the entirety of Marchi’s legal fees, a portion of Funimation, Rial, and Toye’s fees, and pay a fine in amount to be determined by the court.
Lawsuits are very expensive, in both temporal and monetary terms, even when you win. And there is always the risk of being required to cover the other side's legal fees if you lose. This is why it makes no sense to casually threaten lawsuits; in fact, anyone who does so can be safely ignored as a clueless idiot.

And most lawyers, even the very expensive ones, are literally worse than useless. It would shock you to know how ignorant of their very areas of expertise most of them are, and how carelessly they regard unimportant little things like "deadlines" and "documentation".

Labels: ,

86 Comments:

Blogger The Greay Man September 07, 2019 1:35 PM  

Vegeta (Sabat) is great. Vic is probably a homosexual and the trannies are on his side.

Blogger MendoScot September 07, 2019 1:41 PM  

In current year, Law and Justice are approaching mutual exclusivity.

Blogger FUBARwest September 07, 2019 1:46 PM  

"Vegeta (Sabat) is great. Vic is probably a homosexual and the trannies are on his side."

Sabat allegedly ran a casting couch situation at his company which Funimation outsourced DBZ to, and produced a gay orgy/rape audio scene involving characters he voiced from DBZ.

None of that is great.

Blogger Brett baker September 07, 2019 1:47 PM  

Law is about what is legal.
Justice is about what is just.
And Just is "just what I want".

Blogger Dick September 07, 2019 1:47 PM  

I've been working as a law clerk for various attorneys over the past two years. I was, and still am, shocked at the level or carelessness, incompetence, and laziness of 90% of lawyers Ive worked for. Not to mention, they are greedy and very unethical.

Buyer beware.

Blogger kurt9 September 07, 2019 1:49 PM  

I have a friend who had to sue his co-author on a book, basically because she turned out to be too mentally ill to be a functional co-author. He and she went through several lawyers, all of whom were either incompetent or merely careless. He was surprised just how bad the "law" scene was. He says the medical field is equally fucked up as well. In his said opinion, the professions in general are deeply screwed up.

Blogger Sweet, Sweet Victory September 07, 2019 1:56 PM  

[Vegeta (Sabat) is great. Vic is probably a homosexual and the trannies are on his side.]

That;s the opposite, Vegeta is a fucking gamma that produced faggot audio tapes for his company and trannies seem to love him.

Trannies and fags hate Mignogna because he is Christian.

And vox, don't really count this lawsuit out yet, the judge is an idiot and innexperienced in deffamation lawsuits that expected too much from a TCPA case that now will got to the appeals, however the fight still goes on.

I am on Mr. Mignogna's side.

Blogger Sweet, Sweet Victory September 07, 2019 1:58 PM  

I propose everyone to read the last 20 pages of this thread to see why this battle is not over yet.

https://kiwifarms.net/threads/tcpa-hearing-9-6-19.60580/page-111

Blogger Ray - SoCal September 07, 2019 1:59 PM  

The post Vox did a while ago that mentioned why many would settle even when they have a super high chance of winning was illuminating. When you go into a lawsuit, you are rolling the dice. And there is usually a chance you will lose.

I agree 100% with the time and money cost of being involved in a lawsuit, there is also the opportunity cost.

What could you have done with the time / focus / energy a lawsuit costs you?

Blogger Freeholder September 07, 2019 2:09 PM  

Oh the stories I could tell, even with competent representation.................

Blogger Calvin809 September 07, 2019 2:10 PM  

Building something new, moral, honorable, and based on the truth sounds like a better use of time and money.

Blogger Karhu September 07, 2019 2:11 PM  

The only thing reportedly "gay" about Vic is his clothing, according to the behind his back whispers of his enemies for years.

His real crimes are being successful and especially Christian, proselytizing as a part of his convention appearances really ticked them off.

And this case is a great illustration of VD's message. Vic didn't have a choice but to fight, his enemies are explicitly trying to drive him to suicide, and have ended his professional career, although some conventions are taking his and their pocketbooks' side, since he actually fought the SJWs trying to cancel his existence.

It's a great illustration of how bad law can be at the low civil levels most people don't follow at all, lower level state and Federal judges frequently aren't very good at their jobs, it's nothing like the famous cases before the US Supreme Court. Where we also frequently see a majority of judges ignore the law to replace it with their preferences.

Blogger Jim September 07, 2019 2:13 PM  

In this case Mignogna is still better off than he would have been due to a very successful GoFundMe which will insulate him from fees. The defeat definitely hurts, but the lawsuit was still valuable to act as a locus for fan support at a time when he was suffering severe depression. (To answer the question of what he could have done with the time and money: literally nothing, the guy barely wanted to go on living)

Of course, if you don't have that/don't need that, Vox's point is spot on. I've seen legal incompetence create lawsuits where none would be if the parties just did the work themselves, which makes me suspect half the time it's as much to do with greed as laziness or inability.

Blogger cecilhenry September 07, 2019 2:31 PM  

Yup.


I've seen the legal system in the civil courts, and the last thing they are interested in is swift justice.


Their first priority is the power and authority of the court, and its convenience. Then its the work for the bureaucracy.

Then its the paperwork.

Finally, justice if you can still afford it.

(And don't have a regular job)

Blogger bodenlose Schweinerei September 07, 2019 2:34 PM  

He was surprised just how bad the "law" scene was. He says the medical field is equally fucked up as well.

Both fields draw a lot of people who like the idea of being a lawyer or doctor, but are severely wanting for talent, or even basic diligence (it's a lot like wanna-be actors), and with the degradation of the universities through convergence and AA, more and more dangerous idiots are "graduating" at the bottom of their class and being unleashed upon us.

Blogger Pathfinderlight September 07, 2019 2:36 PM  

The legal profession attracts people who like to bully others, not people who craft good arguments. Legal education isn't effective at making students act more ethically.

Blogger Don't Call Me Len September 07, 2019 2:37 PM  

@14- There are small consolations. That very bureaucratic inertia is why I've haven't paid a traffic ticket in 30 years.

Blogger Emmett Fitz-Hume September 07, 2019 2:39 PM  

I work in the Legal System. 99.99999% of attorneys are morons who need help tying their shoes.

And judges are just attorneys who couldn't make it in private practice.

Blogger cecilhenry September 07, 2019 2:52 PM  

@17

Interesting.

I've always found that when the state wants YOUR money the bureaucracy acts much more diligently.

Blogger wahr01 September 07, 2019 2:54 PM  

RE: "medical" incompetence.. the stories I could tell you.

If you're lucky you end up in the hands of the 5% long tail. Otherwise, unless the cause of your malady is visibly obvious, there's a good chance you will die.

Blogger Skyler the Weird September 07, 2019 3:00 PM  

Juries are pretty stupid too. I remember being on the stand once explaining why the defendant could not borrow his twin brother's fingerprints.

Blogger Sweet, Sweet Victory September 07, 2019 3:13 PM  

Graey Man, some of us have been invested in this show where it started, 8 months ago, so please don't just assume you are more knowladgable that some of us who have followed this case really close.

Blogger Gen. Kong September 07, 2019 3:14 PM  

And most lawyers, even the very expensive ones, are literally worse than useless. It would shock you to know how ignorant of their very areas of expertise most of them are, and how carelessly they regard unimportant little things like "deadlines" and "documentation".

Inasmuch as nearly all law schools are scarcely anything more than SJW hatcheries, this comes as no surprise. I've had business experience which meshes with this observation as well. Of course those who graduate at the very bottom of their law school class often end up being called "your honor" - especially if they're the right color or gender. Old King Henry wasn't far off the mark..

Blogger Stilicho September 07, 2019 3:14 PM  

"how carelessly they regard unimportant little things like "deadlines" and "documentation"."

With many judges, that won't matter as long as the offending lawyer has the right politics. Which only encourages such lawyers to keep engaging in such behavior.

Blogger Gregory the Great September 07, 2019 3:19 PM  

Just spoke to a very expensive lawyer yesterday who had already been briefed and asked for his expert view on a particular issue by my other (good) lawyer. Turned out he had not read the documents, kept asking the most basic questions and had to be fed all the facts over the phone before he said he could not yet come up with an opinion.

Blogger VD September 07, 2019 3:21 PM  

Fire him. And consider replacing your lawyer for suggesting him.

Blogger FUBARwest September 07, 2019 3:21 PM  

"I just learned of this whole ordeal three days ago and all I can guarantee you is Vic is on the wrong side and the trannies, flurries, and white knights are all on Twitter defending Vic.

That's why I'm on Sabat's side - I don't care if he's fine, Vic and his side are terrible deviants."

Are you stupid or a liar?

That isn't true. What you said doesn't even make sense. When do white knights ever defend an alleged harasser from women who claim he assaulted them. That is the literal opposite definition of white knight.

You don't know anything about the situation as you're continued statement after being corrected show.

Put up or shut up.

Blogger Gregory the Great September 07, 2019 3:29 PM  

Firing him is going to happen on Monday.

Blogger Sweet, Sweet Victory September 07, 2019 3:30 PM  

Greay Man you are a liar and a KickVic, as per rules of this blog I tell you to back up your assertions or retract them!

Blogger VD September 07, 2019 3:35 PM  

The Greay Man, you're banned for repeatedly lying.

Blogger The Greay Man September 07, 2019 3:37 PM  

Alright. I'll leave it.

Blogger Gregory the Great September 07, 2019 3:42 PM  

A few years ago I met a lawyer who had the following cartoon on the wall:
Lawyer 1 to Lawyer 2:
Do you happen to know the meaning of honour?
Lawyer 2: I think it's got something to do with honorarium...

Blogger Emmett Fitz-Hume September 07, 2019 3:50 PM  

Best lawyer joke I know:

A woman calls the law offices of Attorney Smith. The secretary answers the phone...

Woman: Hello. May I speak to Mister Smith?

Secretary: I'm sorry but Mister Smith passed away last week.

Woman: Okay. Thank you.

The next day, the same woman calls back. And the secretary tells her the same thing, that Mister Smith passed away.

The woman continues to call everyday for a week and gets the same answer. Finally, the secretary has enough...

Woman: Hello. May I speak to Mister Smith?

Secretary: I'm sorry, Mister Smith passed away. Now, you've called every day for the past week and every day I tell you the same thing; Mister Smith has passed away! Why do you keep calling?

Woman: I just like hearing you say the words.

Blogger Doom September 07, 2019 3:53 PM  

I don't think either of the last two pieces are good enough to justify no longer seeing "Mainstream conservatives are traitorous cunts" as the first thing I read when I open up the web page. Maybe I can get that tattooed on the inside of my eyelids...

Blogger Lambert September 07, 2019 3:57 PM  

I retired the first of this year after 35+ years as a California lawyer. I can only amplify Vox's comments. Most California civil lawyers are concerned about thing: how much revenue the file will bring in. They are amazingly unconcerned about the state of the law, the actual facts related to them by the client and the court-ordered deadlines. "A mouse in the mouth of a cat is safer than a client in the hands of his lawyer".

Blogger Jon D. September 07, 2019 4:16 PM  

One must be careful and choose one's battles wisely is the lesson here.

One of the big things about getting to know Vox is he's helped me a lot with my natural tendency to just go fight the enemy, when it's extremely important to use one's energy toward the points where it weakens the enemy the most, and where you have the best chance of winning.

I've got my one lawsuit going, but I've had opportunities for others and I'm laying off those because they're not all spots worth fighting.

Blogger D. H. Rogers September 07, 2019 4:30 PM  

The priorities of lawyers:
(1) Billable hours
(2) Win for the client
(3) Formal consistency with the formal procedures articulated by the legal guild (legislature, judiciary, the bar) in order to avoid being overthrown
...
(100) TRUTH (rarely pursued)

Blogger MATT September 07, 2019 4:35 PM  

Most would be surprised by at how incompetent just about everyone is. Theyre insulated by their lack of interest and participation. Doctors, engineers, lawyers, mechanics, plumbere, electricians,.. people are losers. Their degrees, their training, their experience, their "expertise" all amounts to nothing but expensive inconvenience. Very bad for the dumb masses when they get hooked up with a dumb doctor or lawyer.

Blogger Noah B. September 07, 2019 4:41 PM  

It's a great illustration of how bad law can be at the low civil levels most people don't follow at all, lower level state and Federal judges frequently aren't very good at their jobs, it's nothing like the famous cases before the US Supreme Court. Where we also frequently see a majority of judges ignore the law to replace it with their preferences.

Two years ago I sued American Airlines and the small claims court judge casually ignored the law and torpedoed my case. At the very beginning I had sent American a timely demand letter ordering them to preserve key evidence. Then in discovery they stated that they had intentionally destroyed this evidence, so I wrote a motion for what are known as death penalty sanctions. This is a process wherein the court strikes or greatly limits the other side's pleas due to some sort of egregious misconduct that justifies a presumption of guilt against them.

So I'm at the motion hearing feeling proud of myself for having drafted this thing and confident that the law required American's pleas to be struck - and the judge just flat out admits that she didn't read any of it. She asks American's lawyer a few questions and she offered to amend their pleadings to strip out some of the statements they couldn't prove without the evidence they destroyed, and that was that. No opportunity for me to verbally explain the applicable law, motion denied.

I did end up winning on trial but, due to a lack of sufficient evidence to present, I only won a fraction of what I believe I was entitled to. In retrospect I'm glad I sued them but it was a very difficult undertaking, and I certainly wouldn't recommend that most people go up against attorneys without any competent counsel of their own. This is especially true outside of a small claims court setting, where it is indeed a short trip to paying the other side's legal fees if you make the wrong kinds of mistakes.

Blogger Joe Smith September 07, 2019 4:44 PM  

@38 Right, basically MPAI applies at all levels. Even smart people usually don't have the drive to actually get good at something.

Blogger pilgrims progress September 07, 2019 4:47 PM  

"And most lawyers, even the very expensive ones..."

are good liars.

Blogger Q September 07, 2019 4:48 PM  

Vic might be paying the defendant's lawyers out of pocket due to how the GoFundMe was set up. We'll see what Nick says about that in his next stream.

Blogger Scott September 07, 2019 4:49 PM  

I only donated $100 to his Go Fund Me's to get this result. I look forward to donating thousands when he appeals.

Vic may not be perfect, but he's in the ring and fighting my enemies. I've got his back to the end.

Blogger Bellomy September 07, 2019 4:51 PM  

This was a failure for book but it embarassed the hell out of Funimation and I'm all for that.

Blogger Bellomy September 07, 2019 4:51 PM  

Failure for Vic

Blogger Gregory the Great September 07, 2019 5:00 PM  

Wizards evem

Blogger Bernard Brandt September 07, 2019 5:33 PM  

Having both a J.D. and 40 years of experience in legal research and writing, I wholeheartedly agree with the consensus of this group as regards the qualifications (or lack thereof) of most lawyers.

When I was about six, my father gave me a copy of the classic Von Neumann paper on game theory. I took away from it a settled belief that zero-sum games were not worth playing. I also have a defect of character, called a conscience. Because of that belief and that defect, I chose not to become an attorney.

Nonetheless, in the course of my work as a paralegal, I found that by a simple willingness to read the law, to use simple declarative sentences to explain that law to judges, and to reason simply and directly in the process, my employers won 90+% of the cases they handled.

I state all this now because I am in the process of writing and taping a series of Khan Academy style mini-lectures in Anglo-American common law. I do so because I believe that if common lay men and women were actually to know the law, and how to argue it, they could probably represent themselves at least as well, if not better, than most lawyers, and at far less cost.

Any help that could be given, in the areas of how to learn coding, or how to choose a platform which would be minimally likely to be de-platformed by SJWs, would be greatly appreciated.

Blogger Karhu September 07, 2019 5:39 PM  

Some good comments in a Reddit subthread: https://old.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/d0to11/unofficial_transcript_of_vic_mignoia_hearing/ezf7dbf/

TL;DR: the judge essentially skipped the TCPA hearing part and jumped to the trial, which Vic's lawyer couldn't be prepared for because a TCPA filing halts discovery. Stated he was ignoring the law, so Vic should win on appeal.

The judge evidently does this a lot, and is even Churchian, siding with the Episcopal Church over 60 parishes desiring to secede using internal church law as precedent, reversed and remanded to him by the Texas state supreme court. The appeals process took two years, the retrial another two: https://www.sharonherald.com/community/faith/breakaway-episcopalians-win-texas-church-property-fight/article_4b05e1be-bf0d-571f-a839-56a24bc0dac2.html

Blogger Ray - SoCal September 07, 2019 5:42 PM  

I was surprised to learn, even just meeting with a lawyer to get an idea should you hire them, is billable in California.

And on appeals, for Federal at least, it's about a 20% success rate. All they can rule on is was the law interpreted and followed correctly. It's possible to find out for Federal the % of cases that are overturned, etc. for a particular judge. And in Federal Appeals, you need to get a lawyer who specializes in this area. So you get dueling briefs, the appeals court reads them, and rules. It takes under just under 2 years for the 9th circuit for appeals.

The Trump San Jose case has been going through that process, and was filed in 2016. The city of San Jose filed an appeal (basically a time waster to extend out the process), that got turned down. Hernandez v. City of San Jose. Most Federal Civil Cases end in a settlement 95% of the time.

It's frustrating when you can often tell what a Judges decision will be, by whom appointed them.

Blogger Gregory the Great September 07, 2019 5:44 PM  

@Bernard Brandt:
Bernard, I am currently considering a related project. Is there a way to get in touch with you outside of this blog?

Blogger Heian-kyo Dreams September 07, 2019 5:48 PM  

In this case it looks like the court of public opinion was the one that mattered. The judge ruled that way, at least. What a disappointment to Vic fans (and the side of truth)!

How much longer until vigilante law is the default? (rhetorical question.)

Blogger Gregory the Great September 07, 2019 5:48 PM  

@Ray SoCal
Recently a lawyer wanted to bill me for the time spent on the emails he wrote to me protesting that I had fired him. Well, if he wants that money he's got to sue me...

Blogger Fuzzums Wuzzums September 07, 2019 5:51 PM  

Willpower and a positive attitude does work with illnesses, not so much with the law apparently. Shame, I was rooting for Vic.

What blows my mind about this whole thing is that here we have SJW's infiltrating the anime dubbing community, with anime being Japanese right-wing ultra-nationalist propaganda. There's this one anime, Attack on Titan, which took SJW's 3 full seasons to finally understand that the main character is literally Adolf Hitler. It's hilarious to think that whether they win or lose, they're still helping to spread right-wing propaganda solely due to their virtue of being complete morons.

Blogger Teek-Lor September 07, 2019 6:14 PM  

Law Schools accept anyone now. I am disappointed at the low quality of work product I get sliding across my deck. Sometimes, having an above average IQ is a curse

Blogger Scott Free September 07, 2019 6:33 PM  

@Bernard Brandt and @Gregory the Great: I'm very interested in supporting such a project. If I can help in any way, please drop me an email at ScottFree@lj3.me

Blogger Phil Mann September 07, 2019 6:53 PM  

"why I unmercifully ridicule those morons who jabber about how people should 'just sue' everyone who criticizes or crosses them in any way."

And that unmerciful ridicule is spot on.

This blog attracts an inordinate number of intelligent people, many with a scientific bent, who naively believe that if the law says this, and the facts are that, then the result MUST be what follows from their admittedly flawless reasoning. In the real world, though, it just doesn't work that way. There is a huge difference between natural or scientific laws and man-made laws.

And if you are skeptical of this, retired Seventh Circuit judge Richard Posner -- widely regarded as one of the brilliant elite among the judiciary -- admitted a few years back that he didn't much care for what the written law and case law said and pretty much just went ahead and did what he wanted. To those who had experience with him, this came as no surprise.

Blogger Fuzzums Wuzzums September 07, 2019 6:58 PM  

@56

He sounds like he also rode a motorcycle.

Blogger Phil Mann September 07, 2019 6:59 PM  

Heh heh.

Blogger Calvin809 September 07, 2019 7:20 PM  

So basically find a competent lawyer that isn't a grabbler and you will have quite an advantage against the SJWs.

Blogger lowercaseb September 07, 2019 7:35 PM  

It is fascinating if you look at the case for SSH patterns. It's a clear situational Alpha vs Gammas and women.

Reiketa had a very prophetic pronouncement on his stream right before the hearing which ties into VD's point. You can have all your ducks in a row, but it's not going to matter if the Judge decides you're wasting his time. They can take it to appeal, but that's going to eat up a lot more of the GFM and the appeals board will probably kick it back down to the original judge.

Blogger Tanjil Bren September 07, 2019 7:53 PM  

Unfortunately, a significant part of the uncertainty stems from the poor state of the judiciary after decades of whiteanting at the hands of generally leftist politicians. Stacked to the gills with crap lawyers but 'right' thinkers, benches around the Western world can no longer be relied on to deliver much at all in the way of consistency, with decisions wildly fluctuating from one case (featuring almost, if not exactly, the same circumstances and therefore considerations) to the next.
And they don't even have the wit to notice.

Blogger Beau September 07, 2019 7:54 PM  

OT

This is a story of redemption.

Today out shopping a young man named Aaron saw me, lit up, and approached me. Aaron had a heartbreaking history of navigating chilling sexual abuse, appalling psychological abuse, and physical abuse from a family well known by local authorities. His is a family of intergenerational murder and brutal violence.

Aaron and I spent untold hours together in counsel, prayer, and encouragement to follow Christ. Then I was transferred.

After a warm greeting I asked Aaron, “You look great, what are you up to?”

Aaron said proudly, “I’m in the oil field, I make (a substantial amount of money). I bought my first house, I bought five acres. I worked to make my credit good. I’m saving for a car. I’m going to get a Mustang. I’m going to school for welding.”

I asked, “Who lives with you in your house?” I must admit to being suspicious that his relatives were taking advantage of him, but Aaron replied, “Only my girlfriend. We are going to have a baby!” Sigh, I encouraged him to marry, explaining the advantages to his future for doing so. I asked Aaron, “Are you still going to church?” He beamed, “Yes, I’m going to XYZ." I replied, “Good, that’s a good church.” Told him too, “If you need someone to marry you, I’d be happy to do it, or you can ask Jim.”Aaron said he was already talking to Jim. Ah, a work in progress, discipleship is decisions.

Aaron’s cousin then walked up and joined us. I exclaimed to Aaron, “I’m so proud of you!” making sure his cousin heard the stamp of approval. Aaron smiled, “No one said I could make it. I wanted to show them wrong.” I said, “Aaron, you made my day.” Those two young men together walked away.

My most poignant memory of Aaron is him weeping in violent wracking sobs after being expelled from summer camp for theft. Even in that dark moment offering the hope of Christ has made all the difference.

Blogger tweell September 07, 2019 8:01 PM  

My family recently dealt with an inheritance lawsuit. An uncle passed away, mom was supposed to get everything, but his brother's stepson forged a will and took us to court. Since mom was unable to deal (Alzheimers SUCKS) my brother and I handled everything.

Talk about a slam dunk. Their lawyer was incompetent, ours was excellent. One of the 'witnesses' for the forged will was dead (overdose), the other one was a felon. The forgery was obvious, our handwriting analysis expert noted he'd seen better from grade school children copying their parents signature. The judge was capable, a Vietnam vet who was having visible trouble controlling his temper while dealing with the step-cousin and their counsel. My brother and I went into 'enlisted speaking to officer' mode and did just fine. The judge's closing statement was a thing of beauty, an audible work of art.

The whole thing still cost us $200k from start to finish, requiring us to drain savings and take out mortgages. We'd been kept from the property for a few weeks, since the step-cousin struck first, and the place was ransacked by the time we could take inventory. No use going after him for fees and such, he'd spent everything he stole and was renting a single-wide. We thought about pressing charges for forgery, but prison would have been a step up from how he and his family lived.

Even when the stars align, the courts are a black hole of money and time. Best to stay away if possible.

Blogger Emmett Fitz-Hume September 07, 2019 8:01 PM  

Beau,

I always look forward to your comments. God bless you.

Blogger Damelon Brinn September 07, 2019 8:21 PM  

I've only needed a lawyer for court once. My lawyer was an okay guy and it went fine. But I found myself standing there in court thinking, "How do you people do this every day?" It's like they're all play-acting, pretending that they're doing justice, when they're really just doing bureaucracy. Yet they can put you in a cage if they don't like you, so the play-acting is serious, like something out of Alice in Wonderland, where insane rabbits are arguing in front of you and might suddenly take off your head. My lawyer and the prosecutor had already worked out a deal, but the judge could have ignored it if I hadn't expressed the right respect for his black robe and high seat.

A courtroom is a surreal place.

Blogger Emmett Fitz-Hume September 07, 2019 8:24 PM  

Damelon Brinn wrote:But I found myself standing there in court thinking, "How do you people do this every day?" It's like they're all play-acting, pretending that they're doing justice, when they're really just doing bureaucracy. Yet they can put you in a cage if they don't like you, so the play-acting is serious, like something out of Alice in Wonderland, where insane rabbits are arguing in front of you and might suddenly take off your head. My lawyer and the prosecutor had already worked out a deal, but the judge could have ignored it if I hadn't expressed the right.


This is an excellent description of a busy, working courtroom.

Blogger Tanjil Bren September 07, 2019 9:02 PM  

"A courtroom is a surreal place."

One upon a time, here in the land of Oz, a court we have, called the Family Court, decided, in its infinite wisdom, to do away with all the 'archaic' trappings and robes and gavels and benches and wigs (what I refer to as the theater of the court) and bring it all down to the level of the common man, one-on-one, person to person.

I forget how long it took for the Family Court judges to start getting killed. I think the first had a bomb placed under house. Another, if I recall rightly, was shot outside his home. Others were threatened.

At some point they put two and two together, but they're never particularly happy about advertising how little they understand human nature (or their own business, for that matter).

Blogger Ben Cohen September 07, 2019 9:09 PM  

Vox what is your experience with CPAs?

Blogger TheGhostlyOne September 07, 2019 9:09 PM  

I’m not sure where to put this.

The nation is in need of VD to settle the arguments about student loan forgiveness. Everywhere I look, I’m seeing the typical, old arguments, like it’s 1998 or something.

I’m 100% certain that VD laying down a solid argument, would have a massive influence over time.

This is just a request from a humble devotee.

Blogger Don't Call Me Len September 07, 2019 9:26 PM  

@19 - True, but cops, like most humans, really hate doing paperwork, especially for months-old traffic stops, and it's worked out great for me.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 07, 2019 9:33 PM  

@TheGhostlyOne
VD wrote on this a few weeks ago.

Blogger cyrus83 September 07, 2019 10:23 PM  

Speaking of the incompetence of attorneys, I witnessed a real gem when I once had to appear as a witness in a DWI case.

Despite the DA having had nearly 3 months from the date of the arrest to the trial date and assuring the judge she was ready on the date of the bench trial, the accused was acquitted because of two things: the DA hadn't bothered to obtain paperwork from the DMV to prove the accused had a suspended license (so that charge was tossed), and the DA hadn't bothered to interview me prior to the trial, otherwise she'd have known that I had not witnessed anything indicating the accused was drunk or otherwise impaired, thus my testimony was likely to aid the defense, not the prosecution - and the defense attorney had a big grin on his face when he happily skipped all of his follow-up questions on his legal pad after he realized my testimony was helpful to his cause.

Blogger Ray - SoCal September 07, 2019 11:38 PM  

Ben Cohen September 07, 2019 9:09 PM
>your experience with CPAs?

I'm married to one, so my 2 cents on CPA's and the industry.

I assume your talking about Taxes, when you are asking about CPA's. CPA's come in two main types, Taxes and Audit. Audit is for public companies and a mess due to Sarbanes Oxley, the CPA full employment act.

Tax CPA Types and the creative use of offshore LLC's, entities, deductions etc. is another manner.

A certified tax preparer can do your taxes. Or you can use Turbotax and such to do your taxes. Turbotax has wiped out the bottom of most of the tax preparation business.

CPA's on the low end treat tax returns like pop corn, and there is not a huge amount of difference from using a program to do them, in quality.

The tax rules are so convoluted, you have to decide how much risk of an audit you are willing to take. Documentation helps a huge amount. Some CPA's are very low risk, and others are on the edge. A really good CPA knows what is a high risk deduction, and what is safe. Tax Laws are a matter of interpretation, and you even have tax courts.

The bigger money in the CPA Business is in setting up the right corporate structure. Sometimes the government can retroactively change the rules - this happened to Trump.

CPA's are very similar to lawyers in structures, with associates and partners. The CPA Test does not show how good you are as a CPA, but rather you took the right CPA Prep Class. The big 4 actually trains their people (like Big Law), so the pedology will show in the quality of their output, usually. They will also charge more. For small businesses, the Big 4 graduate will usually not have the street smarts, since they have worked on larger clients and have not usually seen everything end to end. Disclaimer - I may be a bit biased on these observations.

IRS Audits are not the end of the world, and can be managed. ALWAYS have a CPA Present when dealing with the IRS. Same idea as when being questioned by law enforcement, anything you say, can be, and will be held against you.

Blogger furor kek tonicus ( honkeys are not human so it's okay to hate them, WhiteManBad ) September 08, 2019 2:04 AM  

In another exchange, a slightly exasperated Chupp said, “Am I not being clear?” Beard responded, “No, your honor, it’s that I’m not listening“ -- to which the judge said, “It would help if you would.”


*facedesk*

Ty hasn't impressed me much in his Lawsplaining appearances. i understand that he's supposed to be at the tail end of a long work day, but he is extremely repetitive and he has a bad habit of talking Nick down ... when he doesn't actually have anything to say.

Ty personally notarizing witness statements, then withdrawing the filing and resubmitting with different notarization so that he wouldn't expose himself to deposition by the defense seems to me to be a basic bitch error in the practice of Law.

telling a Judge that you aren't listening to him? oy vey.

Blogger Bernard Brandt September 08, 2019 2:32 AM  

@GregorytheGreat and @ScottFree:

Yes, I would be interested in working with you (and any others, by the way) on building the equivalent of a Khan Academy course on Anglo-American common law.

What I want to do is to build four sets of mini lectures on the following subjects:

1) An Introduction to the Common Law. This will be a set of introductions to the prerequisites for an understanding of the Common Law: its languages, literature, history, philosophies, and purposes. Links to further studies will, of course, be included.

2) An Introduction to Legal Research. This will be a heuristic approach to the process by which a lawyer uses treatises, indices, statutes, cases, and Shepards (or its modern equivalent) to find out just what the law happens to be. Heuristics and algorithms as to construing cases and statutes will, of course, also be included.

3) An Introduction to Legal Writing. This will be a quick and dirty approach to what every educated person should have known since they were fifteen: a) Grammar, or how to write an unambiguous declarative sentence in English; b) Logic, or how string those sentences together in such a way as to make sense; and c) rhetoric, or how to use those sentences to inform and to persuade a judge or other trier of law. In short, how to make noises like an attorney.

4) An Introduction to the subjects of the law: you know, things like Contracts, Torts, Property, Crimes/Procedure, Civil Procedure, Evidence, and the like. Multi-State Bar Exam stuff, in other words. Other subjects, like Wills, Trusts, Corporations, etc. can be included later.

The ultimate goal would be to make a platform which could teach lay men or women how to pass the Multi-State Bar exam. And maybe even to have the chops to hold their own against effing lawyers.

Okay, here's the deal: I can probably write all this stuff myself, and dictate it. What I need help with is in two specific areas: 1) what platform to use that isn't going to be cut when some State Bar decides to sue for Unlawful Practice of Law, or some effing SJW decides that the course should be banned because it hurts his/her/its feelings; and 2) how do I learn the sort of coding it would require to put these courses online with not only lectures, but the sort of software that would permit testing with multiple-guess. Of course, anyone willing to do the coding involved would be MOST welcome, too.

My name is Bernard Brandt. My e-mail is bfbrandt@hotmail.com. Any takers?

Blogger GammaCatch September 08, 2019 4:49 AM  

Amazing what they'll do for an ounce of fame and power. Japanese cartoons have gone the way of the rest of it, anyway. Bad writing and Anti-Western tropes are the name of the game.

Blogger Avalanche September 08, 2019 9:33 AM  

A thing many folks desperately wishing for a fair and just trial of the facts rarely or never understand is that, in the end, the 'tribe' of lawyers -- and it's often also the (((tribe))) -- has no loyalty whatsoever to the client!

Yes, yes, you want "your" lawyer to be wholeheartedly on your side but, for many, many lawyers, you are a mere mayfly in his career. Before you showed up, possibly during "your" trial, and certainly after you've gone, win-or-lose, "your" lawyer will still be working many days, attending conferences, playing golf, attending professional and personal cocktail parties, and maybe also hitting the 'court' bar(s) after work WITH your opponent's lawyer(s). YOU don't enter into his life except as a manipulable object for advancing his career in some way.

His loyalty, however well he LARPs it for/to you, is to HIS people, the group he spends his days interacting with, the 'brotherhood' he joined when he passed the Bar! He's probably never going to see you again, so his commitment to your case means mainly: "how does it look in MY win-or-lose stats"!

Blogger Karhu September 08, 2019 9:39 AM  

@74 furor kek tonicus ( honkeys are not human so it's okay to hate them, WhiteManBad ):

"In another exchange, a slightly exasperated Chupp said, “Am I not being clear?” Beard responded, “No, your honor, it’s that I’m not listening“ -- to which the judge said, “It would help if you would.”"

You're basing this complaint on the claims of the partisan KickVic side, as of now there's no official transcript or reliable 3rd party account of the hearing. But we can well believe Ty said something impolitic after the judge declared he was the law, and demanded things Ty by definition could not supply, see my above comments, including an infamous case where he ruled in favor of a pozzed national church based on "internal church law."

Ty might also have realized that he and Vic can't win with this judge, it looks like they can't without months or years of appeals, as happened in the church case. See this improved explanation of all this: https://old.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/d11o3t/weebwars_turns_out_judge_chupp_has_a_history_of/ezhkh4x/

"Ty personally notarizing witness statements, then withdrawing the filing and resubmitting with different notarization so that he wouldn't expose himself to deposition by the defense seems to me to be a basic bitch error in the practice of Law."

You aren't following the story at all closely, or rather, it's clear you've only listening to the KickVic side. Ty initially submitted them with his notarizing the accounts remotely, which is allowed in Texas, but he didn't realize he needed to get an additional licence to do that. He then resubmitted them as sworn statements, as one already had to be due to the witness currently being in Japan.

Avoid being deposed? Why would he care, the only valid questions would be about the notarization process, a deposition is not an excuse to breach lawyer-client confidentiality.

Side note: this whole mess is yet more evidence that there can be no peace between the two sides, when one side only cares about power, truth as we hold it has no meaning to them. As Orwell put it in 1984:

"We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power."

The object of KickVic is exercising social power to torture him.

Blogger Gregory the Great September 08, 2019 9:40 AM  

I hate how they call each other "my learned friend" in UK courts.

Blogger Daniel September 08, 2019 10:19 AM  

In argentina the hole legal system is just a caste separated from the rest of the population.
They are all, lawyers and legal sysgem eployees, a huge ilegal asociation mafia style

Blogger justaguy September 08, 2019 11:19 AM  

I agree that in the US, we produce too many low quality lawyers, who graduating with large school debt, and few Big Law opportunities, practice in desperation of getting enough revenue to keep afloat. Too many small firms really do not have the time or intellect to become good in their fields. Looking at the pay versus numbers, you have a distribution of two humps, one small hump (a small number maybe 15%) with high pay and a larger hump with relatively low pay. This seems to have a high correlation to LSAT score which is correlated to IQ. The high IQ lawyers make good $ while the mid-wit and lower ones often do not (in general)

But... big law is something very different. I worked in Big Law for a few years at a top ranked law firm on K Street-- it is a much different deal. The big law firms compete for hard work and talent in their new associates-- all top grads from top law schools. These are very hard-working law students with Ivy League or equivalent credentials who scored in the top few % on the LSAT (and likely high IQ). This isn't the corporate counsel-- these are the firms the big and middle size companies use to solve their legal issues.

I worked at one of the top 3 law firms in the country in my field (ranked by Chambers) and the partners were absolutely outstanding. Now an associate needed to work 3000+ hours a year with a maintained intensity-- but the $ was good. In our cases, if the other side wasn't represented by one of about 30 or so firms that knew what they were doing in our arcane field, we would find mistakes in their work and we would take advantage of those mistakes. This is law for big corporations involving tens or hundreds of millions in contracts and at that level, only top performance was accepted.

I found from my experience that rarely did government lawyers have anywhere near the same ability, nor did mid-level law firms. If the firm wasn’t ranked in Chambers, they generally weren’t very good. Now many of the associates that dropped out of the Big Law life (myself included) go into other areas—many to non-profits—where they put their expertise to good use. Many lawyers in the non-profit arena are just as good as or better than those in Big Law.

So yes, OJ can get top legal defense, but the normal guy cannot afford it, and even big companies fear to litigate among themselves. Most contracts have international arbitration agreements (enforceable across most countries—many of which do not accept US judgements)

Blogger furor kek tonicus ( honkeys are not human so it's okay to hate them, WhiteManBad ) September 08, 2019 12:28 PM  

78. Karhu September 08, 2019 9:39 AM
You aren't following the story at all closely, or rather, it's clear you've only listening to the KickVic side.


not only have i only been listening to the ISWV side, i've almost exclusively been listening to the Lawsplaining podcasts. and THAT'S HOW NICK CHARACTERIZED IT.

the Dallas Morning News article is the first time i've read a DMN article since 1994, i think.

who is opining in ignorance, again?

reading up in the KF thread last night, there were multiple ISWV lawyers who were pointing out areas where Ty had completely impregnated the pooch.

that's not a good look, when people on your side can point out multiple instances of you being a basic bitch retard.


78. Karhu September 08, 2019 9:39 AM
But we can well believe Ty said something impolitic


there are ways to phrase that which don't expose the lead litigator to the contempt of the court.

such as, "I'm sorry judge, I was consulting with co-consul" or "I'm sorry judge, I was trying to find the reference on that question you asked me earlier."

as Rackets himself has pointed out multiple times, judges are people too. you don't win friends and influence people by telling them that you're ignoring them. multiply that by a factor of one hundred for a pompous ass judge sitting in his own courtroom.


78. Karhu September 08, 2019 9:39 AM
Ty might also have realized that he and Vic can't win with this judge,


if this judge is so godawful bad, then Rackets probably shouldn't have spent the last month sucking Chupp off about how awesome he is.

yes, yes, that would be part of the whole "making friends and influencing people" thing but having gone in whole hog on the "no nonsense, by the book" characterization of Chupp raises serious questions about Nick's ability to evaluate the case.

which is the marketing angle Nick's entire Superchat show is based on.

frankly, the judge moving to void all of Ty's objections, without comment, should have been a red flag to any observer. and Nick was trying to play that off as Chupp having already ruled the defense evidence irrelevant at this stage of the trial ... without bothering to tell the prosecution counsel that he was doing this.

otoh, i'm not paying Nick anything for his legal opinion
...
and i seem to be getting every penny's worth.



78. Karhu September 08, 2019 9:39 AM
Avoid being deposed? Why would he care



that was Rekeita's evaluation, you'll have to go ask him. if nothing else, i would expect it to be a power move on defense counsel's part to be able to force the lead prosecution counsel to testify under oath about anything.

that's a pretty obvious tactical error, to expose yourself to that kind of threat.

whatever the reason,
IF
there was nothing wrong with Ty's first filing
THEN
Ty was just wasting time when he rescinded his previous filing and updated the filing with new notarization.

you don't get out of this. either Ty completely botched the filing the first time
OR
Ty is wiping his ass with the GFM money.

neither option is good for Vic or anyone else on the Right.



78. Karhu September 08, 2019 9:39 AM
when one side only cares about power, truth as we hold it has no meaning to them.


duh?

Blogger Joe September 08, 2019 2:20 PM  

"When you go into a lawsuit, you are rolling the dice. And there is usually a chance you will lose."

That's pretty much what Nick Rekieta says. He never gives more than a 75% chance estimate of victory.

Blogger Amethyst Dominica September 09, 2019 1:01 AM  

@83

Well, that doesn't sound very reliable. If your car had only a 75 percent chance of not crashing, would you still drive it? Or would you demand it be replaced with a model that works?

Blogger Statix September 09, 2019 2:39 AM  

A 25% chance of crashing means you die. A 25% chance of losing a lawsuit means you lose some money. The two aren't even close to comparable.

Blogger OneWingedShark September 10, 2019 5:13 PM  

Bernard Brandt wrote:I state all this now because I am in the process of writing and taping a series of Khan Academy style mini-lectures in Anglo-American common law. I do so because I believe that if common lay men and women were actually to know the law, and how to argue it, they could probably represent themselves at least as well, if not better, than most lawyers, and at far less cost.

Any help that could be given, in the areas of how to learn coding, or how to choose a platform which would be minimally likely to be de-platformed by SJWs, would be greatly appreciated.

I'm quite interested in this project.
I don't know why you need to know coding for it though; my answer would depend on what you want to do:
— If you're looking for a solid, practical language that was designed for software engineering: Ada.
— For a whirlwind tour of low-level programming: Forth.
— etc.

You can contact me, this handle at gmail.com.

Gregory the Great wrote:@Bernard Brandt:
Bernard, I am currently considering a related project. Is there a way to get in touch with you outside of this blog?

I'd be interested in this project, too.
You can contact me, too.

Beau wrote:OT
This is a story of redemption.

Thank you for sharing that.

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