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Wednesday, October 09, 2019

Mailvox: a response from Hong Kong

A native of Hong Kong responds to yesterday's email from a mainlander.

I am born and raised in Hong Kong and are currently lived in the city for the past 5 years.

The reason why people oppose the government and react the way they do is simply the lack of trust for the government.

The mainland mailer is correct in a sense the Hong Kong people are spoiled brats because we have been at peace prospering for as long as this generation remembers. And so they are all boomer-like in a sense that they believe in lies that the government tells its people and such.

What Carrie Lam, the chief executive in Hong Kong, did that outraged the people is the obvious show of brute force that essentially served as a wake-up slap to the public. And they, being spoiled by peace, are throwing a fit.

We don’t hate the mainland Chinese people, However their tourists actions are equal that of an illegal immigrant from Mexico to the US. They have no intention of abiding by our cultural rules, I have personally seen two incidents where they openly defecate in the street, even outside the public bathroom!

Due to multiple incidents of fake and poison milk powders, they raid our food supply.The major city centres close to the broader have been turned to a mainland China city-like environment. The obvious cultural erosion has been putting pressure in the bomb for about 10 years now. And now is the result of the explosion.

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80 Comments:

Blogger D E K October 09, 2019 5:45 AM  

Seems like Chinese tourists would feel at home in San Francisco.
Chinese people have a problem with themselves across a border, but I am expected to get along fine with Arabs and Africans.

Blogger maniacprovost October 09, 2019 5:47 AM  

At this rate, Chicom and CIA cyber ninjas will be raiding the comments.

Who knows, it may be an improvement.

Blogger Wario's Mart October 09, 2019 5:48 AM  

Chinese are almost as bad as Jews. Mian Zi makes dealing with them like dealing with a mental patient. They deserve everything they get from the Hong Kongese. You can do business in Hong Kong. The Chinese can go to hell.

Blogger Lazarus October 09, 2019 6:04 AM  

This is beginning to resemble the Catalonia kerfuffle from awhile back.

Blogger Brett baker October 09, 2019 6:19 AM  

Hopefully with a better outcome.

Blogger A rebel without a General October 09, 2019 6:19 AM  

I know the mainland government would never let Hong Kong leave but seriously if they are a such a pain let them go is it worth it anymore. I would rejoice if LA or NYC wanted to leave the country.

Blogger Gregory the Great October 09, 2019 6:44 AM  

They may have invented gunpowder, but what about the water closet?

Blogger Daniele Grech Pereira October 09, 2019 6:52 AM  

If he had mentioned hordes of BO stinking Indians, I would have thought he was talking about Toronto. I feel this man's pain.

Blogger Lazarus October 09, 2019 7:01 AM  

The major city centres close to the broader have been turned to a mainland China city-like environment. The obvious cultural erosion has been putting pressure in the bomb for about 10 years now. And now is the result of the explosion.

What you fail to realize is that Diversity is Your Strength.

Blogger bodenlose Schweinerei October 09, 2019 7:01 AM  

You can change an economy fairly quickly, but not people. What we have here is ~750 million slant-eyed Jed Clampetts.

Blogger Robert Browning October 09, 2019 7:08 AM  

The question that should be put to this Hong Kong person is---should a Chinese man would killed his wife in Hong Kong be deport back to China to face justice? nobody seems to want to talk about the reason for China wanting to extradite, why?

Blogger Jim October 09, 2019 7:11 AM  

The Communist takeover of mainland China and subsequent cultural revolution that utterly destroyed the original culture has basically created three nations. There's the Chinese in Taiwan, the Maoese on the mainland, and the British hybrid in Hong Kong. It makes perfect sense that the HKers would chafe at what is now foreign rule and foreign invasion.

Blogger Gregory the Great October 09, 2019 7:14 AM  

The intestines of the people who defecated on the street in Hongkong probably did not tolerate the way the Hongkong chef had prepared the rat and dog tartar.

Blogger Doktor Jeep October 09, 2019 7:15 AM  

Diversity plus Proximity

Blogger Mr.MantraMan October 09, 2019 7:38 AM  

My buddies who made port calls in HK said the harbor smelled like crap, literal crap. Literally our great benevolent "Healers" are making deals and selling us out to go back centuries. Thanks Healers.

VD was right we will be lucky going forward to keep basic sanitation. If a HKer is complaining about Chinese sanitary habits imagine the shithole that China must be?

Blogger Krymneth October 09, 2019 7:42 AM  

nobody seems to want to talk about the reason for China wanting to extradite, why?

Because it is as transparent an excuse to do a power grab the government wants to do anyhow as the "mass shootings" are in the United States. About as likely to have naturally happened, too, which is not 0% but certainly not 100%. One crime in a country the size of Hong Kong or China is not a reason to rewrite a social contact, just an excuse.

Blogger buzzardist October 09, 2019 7:43 AM  

This is a fascinating exchange between these two individuals. They both have some good insights into the situation. Taken together, it seems fairly clear what the irreconcilable conflict is.

What Hong Kong and China have is essentially two cultures. Successive generations grew up under different conditions, Hong Kong under the cosmopolitanism and civilizational influence of the British empire and mainland China under the harsher experiences of Japanese occupation, civil war, and the Cultural Revolution. New York City and rural Wyoming probably have about as much or more in common culturally as Hong Kong and mainland China do.

Hong Kong's citizens think they are superior to mainland Chinese people because they understand civilizational advancements like flush toilets. Mainland Chinese think they are superior to Hong Kong because of numerical superiority, because they are the motherland, and because Hong Kong's people are spoiled and soft. Mainland China wants to believe that Hong Kong (as with Taiwan) is Chinese, and thus it should be part of the Chinese empire. However, Hong Kong people don't quite fit into the Chinese nation in the strictest sense anymore. The cultures and peoples are different enough that governing them by the same authority will always cause strife.

As the first poster observed, China doesn't really need Hong Kong anymore. At one time, China desperately did. Now, China has its own financial centers. If that's the case, then why not let Hong Kong go? It's really only imperial Han ambition and the fear that giving Hong Kong independence will embolden Uighurs, Tibetans, and various other minority groups within the Chinese empire. But, hey, when you build an empire instead of a nation, that's the permanent state of conflict that you have to embrace.

Blogger buzzardist October 09, 2019 7:52 AM  

nobody seems to want to talk about the reason for China wanting to extradite, why?

A Chinese mainlander who kills his wife in Hong Kong should be tried and punished under the laws of Hong Kong, just as he would be tried and punished under the laws of the U.S. if he committed the murder there. The place where the crime happens has jurisdiction.

Here are further extradition questions to ponder: Should a Chinese citizen who travels to Hong Kong be extradited to and punished in China for online posts critical of the Chinese government made while in Hong Kong? Should a Hong Kong citizen who criticizes the Chinese government from Hong Kong be extradited to mainland China and sent to a reeducation camp? Should America extradite the Phoenix Suns president to China so that he can be sent to reeducation?

Blogger VD October 09, 2019 8:02 AM  

A Chinese mainlander who kills his wife in Hong Kong should be tried and punished under the laws of Hong Kong, just as he would be tried and punished under the laws of the U.S. if he committed the murder there. The place where the crime happens has jurisdiction.

Don't be retarded. He was never even charged for killing his girlfriend in Taiwan. He got a sentence of 29 months for money laundering but was scheduled to be released this month, after just six months.

Taiwan is considered to be part of China, as is Hong Kong. That's like saying the US Marshals shouldn't pursue you in Alaska for a murder committed in California.

Blogger VD October 09, 2019 8:06 AM  

If that's the case, then why not let Hong Kong go?

Because the empire, once divided, must unite. If they let Hong Kong go, they let Taiwan go.

It's not an option.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd October 09, 2019 8:17 AM  

Robert Browning wrote:nobody seems to want to talk about the reason for China wanting to extradite, why?

If the controversy were only about extraditing foreigners, would there even be a controversy? Every Hong Konger can see that it's foreigners today, and Hong Kongers tomorrow. Then there's the whole CIA/color revolution thing, but the Hong Kongers definitely have a legit grievance for the CIA to exploit.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd October 09, 2019 8:19 AM  

VD wrote:Taiwan is considered to be part of China, as is Hong Kong. That's like saying the US Marshals shouldn't pursue you in Alaska for a murder committed in California.

Sounds good to me. I do see why the empires don't like it.

Blogger VD October 09, 2019 8:26 AM  

Sounds good to me.

I very much doubt that you are okay with Americans being murdered with impunity so long as it is outside the United States.

Hong Kong caused this problem. A Chinese citizen was murdered and the Chinese sub-government failed to respond appropriately by punishing the murderer. One doesn't have to have read much Chinese literature or history to understand what happens when the Emperor's servants don't do their job in maintaining order and justice.

Remember, Xi has had high-level government employees executed for less than letting a murderer walk.

Blogger buzzardist October 09, 2019 8:27 AM  

Because the empire, once divided, must unite. If they let Hong Kong go, they let Taiwan go.

It's not an option.


Exactly, and this is why bloody conflict is inevitable. China doesn't need Hong Kong any more than it needs Taiwan or Tibet, but it won't give up any of them because...empire! Empires are always just clawing and struggling to delay the inevitable. They can't let any part of the empire go, lest they lose all the rest, but keeping all of those parts that don't identify with the nation proper invariably generates the conflict that ultimately subverts the empire and often the nation as well.

Blogger VD October 09, 2019 8:31 AM  

this is why bloody conflict is inevitable.

I doubt it will be very bloody. Hong Kong is too rich, spoiled, and soft to fight. This isn't "delaying the inevitable". China is still early in the imperial expansionary phase. It's the USA that is in the contractionary phase and is trying to delay the inevitable.

Blogger Brick Hardslab October 09, 2019 8:35 AM  

Because it's been overtaken by subsequent events. And no you try a man where he committed the crime not where you want.

Blogger Brainspirit October 09, 2019 8:39 AM  

Vox is right,it all comes down to losing face if they let Hong Kong go.

Blogger Raker_T October 09, 2019 8:42 AM  

"Boomer-like" ??? Looks like a foreigner with a sharp grasp of western rhetoric.
Slightly related: not to be pedantic, but the issue is more like diligent sanitation, not flushing toilets. The day I got married, I gained a whole LOT of relatives. Being that I live near the great matriarch of the group, people are always dropping in for a few days, we end up with these near spontaneous mini reunions. A full blown reunion rents an entire hotel floor, but these gatherings are less. Still, there can be literal waiting lines for the commode at our house.
So I decided to set up an experimental composting toilet outhouse. It requires diligence, but the results have been just short of amazing, in the realm of fly control. "Know they enemy" is key; so I studied the life cycle of flies, and operate the outhouse accordingly. We've gone to near zero fly problem.
I keep detailed notes, with time and temperature recorded. I have enough material to write a small book. I think I'm going Bill Murray in Caddy Shack, but with good results. You see, I noticed that the flies hatch at a different time than the fly larvae predator wasps, so I let the flies die in the screened containers, then, when the wasps hatch, I release them. Natural fly control at two levels, very effective.

Blogger peacefulposter October 09, 2019 8:58 AM  

Hitler wanted to create a Greater Germany by uniting all peoples of German heritage.

Sounds like the Chinese govt wants to do the same.

But one difference is that countries like Austria were on board. Hong Kong is not.

Blogger LZ October 09, 2019 8:59 AM  

That is a part of it, they've been selling reunification to the people. They've substituted nationalism and quasi-capitalism for Marxism as the Mandate.

However, that pales next to the real reason. If Taiwan and Hong Kong are independent they will have US Navy based, radar and air defense systems that stretch well into Chinese airspace. Think Cuban Missile crisis.

Blogger LZ October 09, 2019 9:00 AM  

The bigger backstory is One Country Two Systems only goes through 2050. Hong Kong is screwed no matter what.

Blogger VD October 09, 2019 9:06 AM  

Vox is right,it all comes down to losing face if they let Hong Kong go.

As LZ points out, it is considerably more than that. China has watched the US move missiles and bases right up to the Russian border despite promising not to do so. So, naturally, they will not permit any sovereign, independent territories on their borders that might allow the US to do the same.

The Chinese are not the evil empire attempting to rule over the globe. The USA is. Even if you don't see that, everyone outside the USA does.

Blogger Brainspirit October 09, 2019 9:06 AM  

Cuban Missile crisis times 100.

Blogger buzzardist October 09, 2019 9:10 AM  

Taiwan is considered to be part of China, as is Hong Kong. That's like saying the US Marshals shouldn't pursue you in Alaska for a murder committed in California.

If we're dealing with Taiwan, that analogy might work better if we imagined the U.S. claiming Canada is part of the United States, and vice versa. While the United States might think it should be able to send Marshals into Canada, the independently functioning government of Canada, with its own police, courts, military, and alliances, would obviously object.

And, yes, in your analogy, U.S. Marshals might assist in catching a killer in Alaska, but the murder case would still be tried in California. It's not retarded to say that the place where the crime was committed has jurisdiction. That's a statement of fact. An Alaska resident caught for a murder in California would not be tried in Alaska by virtue of being an Alaskan resident, which is what Robert Browning's scenario of a Chinese man extradited from Hong Kong to mainland China for a murder committed in Hong Kong implied.

I took Robert Browning's case of a Chinese man extradited from Hong Kong to China for killing his wife in Hong Kong more as a generic example. The details are markedly different from the actual case of a Hong Kong man killing his girlfriend in Taiwan that you're mentioning, Vox.

Oddly, the notion of Hong Kong and Taiwan signing an extradition agreement with each other suggests that the two do have national sovereignty. California could never sign an extradition agreement with Mexico. If both Hong Kong and Taiwan are part of mainland China, then no special extradition agreement should be necessary. The fact that they need an extradition agreement to deal with a loophole that let a Hong Kong man get away with murder suggests that at least one of the two isn't within China's jurisdiction.

The main hang-up that both Hong Kong and Taiwan seem to have with an extradition agreement, as I understand it, is that any agreement they tried to ink would get pro-mainland, pro-Communist government language inserted into it. I'm sure Taiwan and pro-independence Hong Kongers would love to assert sovereignty by inking their own foreign treaties, but if the language of the agreement includes declarations of the Communist government's sovereignty, that's the poison pill in the deal.

The Taiwan and Hong Kong sovereignty questions are related from China's perspective in that in claims both, but the mainland's current authority in the two places is very different.

And this really does cut to the heart of the issue--is Hong Kong an independent state within a larger empire, or is Hong Kong subject to the Chinese government like any other province in the country? The terms of the handover from the British established Hong Kong as a special jurisdiction, but everyone knew that arrangement was never sustainable in the long term. Will the current conflict let enough blood to settle the question?

Blogger buzzardist October 09, 2019 9:19 AM  

The Chinese are not the evil empire attempting to rule over the globe. The USA is. Even if you don't see that, everyone outside the USA does.

Agreed, Vox. Hong Kong would fold quickly if it came to a heavy show of force, and both sides know it. China's main point of hesitation is more likely to avoid creating a spectacle that hands U.S. neocons an excuse to entrench the American military even more deeply in Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan. Neocons would love another Tiananmen.

Blogger Brainspirit October 09, 2019 9:33 AM  

Agreed.And these are probably the final days of the American empire.

Blogger VD October 09, 2019 9:35 AM  

While the United States might think it should be able to send Marshals into Canada, the independently functioning government of Canada, with its own police, courts, military, and alliances, would obviously object.

No, they would not. You realize the USA already does that all the time, right?

the Marshals Service is the primary federal agency responsible for tracking and extraditing fugitives who are apprehended in foreign countries and wanted for prosecution in the United States. The USMS, which has statutory responsibility for all international extraditions, sees to it that there is no safe haven for criminals who flee the territorial boundaries of the United States.

The USMS even have field offices staffed in the Dominican Republic, Jamaica and Mexico.

Blogger VD October 09, 2019 9:37 AM  

China's main point of hesitation is more likely to avoid creating a spectacle that hands U.S. neocons an excuse to entrench the American military even more deeply in Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan.

(nods)

Blogger S1AL October 09, 2019 9:50 AM  

"The Chinese are not the evil empire attempting to rule over the globe. The USA is. Even if you don't see that, everyone outside the USA does."

OBOR says this is incorrect. China is attempting to compete, that much is clear - regardless of any individual's opinions about which empire is worse.

Blogger peacefulposter October 09, 2019 9:52 AM  

that analogy might work better if we imagined the U.S. claiming Canada is part of the United States

More likely that China will claim Canada as their own, or at least the Province of BC!

Blogger VD October 09, 2019 10:00 AM  

OBOR says this is incorrect.

OBOR is wrong. How many foreign military bases does the US have? How many does China have?

It's not even close. Does China interfere with your bank in the UK or Brazil? The USA does.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 October 09, 2019 10:01 AM  

They have no intention of abiding by our cultural rules, I have personally seen two incidents where they openly defecate in the street, even outside the public bathroom!

Why do you think they take their shoes off when they enter their homes?

Blogger Ray - SoCal October 09, 2019 10:08 AM  

Very incisive comment about the difference in culture between China, HK, and Taiwan.

Singapore should be added as a majority Ethnic country, with a different culture.

Hk is part of China and under their military control. Taiwan is not.

Blogger Dave October 09, 2019 10:09 AM  

Yesterday Vox stated: Silver's claim that the NBA supports freedom of expression is absolutely and entirely false.

Didn't even take 24 hours for Vox to be proven right: https://kywnewsradio.radio.com/articles/news/sixers-fan-says-he-was-removed-supporting-hong-kong

First the NBA confiscated fan's Free Hong Kong signs, then they claim they were removed from the arena for yelling "Free Hong Kong"

Blogger Fuzzums Wuzzums October 09, 2019 10:24 AM  

"throwing a fit"

This wording has been used a lot and it's probably the core of the issue. HK, like a child, is throwing a fit to see how far it can go. It wants to test the limits of the parent. And much like a child would, it's also looking to rally others on its side. If we stopped paying attention to them the protests will peter out.

No clear lines in the sand have been drawn by anyone, not even Hollywood, not even the MSM, so my money is on nothing major happening anytime soon.

Blogger Jim October 09, 2019 10:25 AM  

VD wrote:
Does China interfere with your bank in the UK or Brazil? The USA does.


They would if they could. Belt and Road is all about trying to extend its economic dominance by turning countries into debt slaves. They are very much attempting to rule over the world. The difference with the US is, as you say, the US does.

Blogger vmax71 October 09, 2019 10:45 AM  

I am most fascinated regarding the NBA of how the powers that be in the league are you gonna figure out a way to get Darryl Morey the Houston Rockets general manager fired or “ Voluntarily resign“

As long as he stays the general manager of the Rockets China is going to throw a big hissy fit. And there’s no way the NBA is going to be able to do business with them

Blogger Latigo3 October 09, 2019 10:56 AM  

Thank you Vox! You continually make it a must read blog. Where else do you get to read about what is actually going on; whether it be from mainland Chinese or from Hong Kong.
Both emails give me much to think about.

Blogger Uindo October 09, 2019 11:10 AM  

''Oddly, the notion of Hong Kong and Taiwan signing an extradition agreement with each other suggests that the two do have national sovereignty. California could never sign an extradition agreement with Mexico. ''
Are you familiar with the ninth circuit, sanctuary cities, Obama appointed judges etc? The Western States are in open revolt against the rightfully elected President of the US. They flaunt immigration laws openly, aribtrarily claim the president is breaking the law so they don't have to follow it, warn when ICE is showing up and even have antifa as a private hit squad. California is more loyal to foreign elements than not.

Blogger Monotonous Languor October 09, 2019 11:23 AM  

OBOR is a thinly disguised first step in the eventual expansion of the Chinese military. The Chinese always think long-term; simply coming in and setting up a military base would be bad optics, of which China is acutely aware. OBOR is advertised as economic expansion for developing countries. But even that is disingenuous. Instead it's the way China extends its economic dominance outside its borders, by making debt slaves out of naïve locals sitting on top of raw materials, access to sea lanes, and other things China craves.

These countries derive little economic benefit from being forced to use Chinese construction companies who don't even pretend to use much local labor. China also makes no pretense about bribing any local officials they can find, the better to get them addicted to Chinese influence while ignoring the general populace. With all this going on, conditions are ideal for the country to default on the loan, at which point the Chinese take over assets and operation of the new facility. This ups the ante: if the locals then have the effrontery to try and take back the facility, don't for a moment doubt that the Chinese military will step in to protect its claims. And even before that happens, it's highly likely that many of the Chinese already in-country are working directly for the military.

The name of their country 中国 (zhong guo) means 'Middle Kingdom', but that has nothing to do with geography. Its meaning derives from the unshakable belief that Chinese consider themselves the sole intercessor between heaven above and barbarians below who constitute the rest of the world. Anyone who trusts the mainland Han Chinese about anything is in for a rude awakening.

Blogger doctrev October 09, 2019 11:24 AM  

buzzardist wrote:

Exactly, and this is why bloody conflict is inevitable. China doesn't need Hong Kong any more than it needs Taiwan or Tibet, but it won't give up any of them because...empire!


Taiwan and Hong Kong are examples of functioning states that do not need Chinese rule, which is part of why China can't afford to let them go. Cracking down violently on either encourages anti-Chinese alliances throughout Asia, even between otherwise bitter rivals like Japan and Korea. Whatever historical grudge the South Koreans carry, they're not fans of tapeworm soup.

The 20th century featured two major autocratic empires that didn't even make it to 100 years. Red China could go the same way, even if they currently enjoy advantages compared to the Nazis and Soviets.

Blogger doctrev October 09, 2019 11:28 AM  

Monotonous Languor wrote:Anyone who trusts the mainland Han Chinese about anything is in for a rude awakening.

China is not a high trust society. Which is why I always laugh when people insist how they always take the long view: Malaysia is already dismissing the obligations corrupt politicians gave to China on their behalf. Acting like loan sharks means you make a lot of enemies, and no friends to care when the neighborhood stands up to you. From a North American perspective, China isn't as much of a threat as the local bankers, but someone in Sri Lanka or India might have a very different opinion.

Blogger jkmack October 09, 2019 11:46 AM  

China interferes with mass media hollywood films and blizzard game content. So I think it is safe to say, they would screw with your local bank if they could.

The chinese are certainly interfering at the basic hardware infrastructure level of this country.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-hack-how-china-used-a-tiny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-top-companies

Blogger Slippin JImmy October 09, 2019 12:49 PM  

I've visited Hong Kong and was impressed by how tidy it was.

Blogger S1AL October 09, 2019 12:52 PM  

"OBOR is wrong. How many foreign military bases does the US have? How many does China have?

It's not even close. Does China interfere with your bank in the UK or Brazil? The USA does."

It doesn't matter how many we have - they're leftover from WW2, mostly. Since 2016, China has built them in 4 countries stretching from the Middle East to Cambodia... that we know of. China is actively interfering in the NBA, Hollywood, and Blizzard gaming events. The fact that they can't touch *my bank* in the United States is meaningless; I'm in the USA, and China is interfering in plenty of banks in other countries. South America is a US/China economic proxy battleground - this is a competition between powers, and China is competing.

I have no idea why you're defending China here. Based just on your own posts from the last week, the only separation between the US empire and the China empire is which one is playing catch-up. If the US empire is evil, so is the Chinese empire (and the Chinese are dramatically more likely to engage in long-term regional occupation, both currently and historically).

Blogger HouellebecqGurl October 09, 2019 12:59 PM  

I didn't encounter any shit holes on my visits to mainland China, but it's a big country, I'm sure they're out there somewhere, especially in the highly poverty stricken areas, but it just hasn't been my experience.
Same for S Korea. The thing that freaked me out the most in S Korea is the amount of plastic surgery I saw in the big cities.
Felt like I was in Korean LA.

Blogger HouellebecqGurl October 09, 2019 1:12 PM  

Yes, yes, yes. I don't have much experience being in mainland China but I've employed mainlanders in my export steel business for decades. This is exactly their take or at least what they've told me.
Also, most Chinese think America is a bully nation, not theirs. In fact, most foreigners I've ever done business with dislike America for the very same reason. Wars and invasions.

Blogger HouellebecqGurl October 09, 2019 1:14 PM  

They don't call it Hongcouver for nuthin'.

Blogger Sean October 09, 2019 1:15 PM  

Quite a fascinating exchange between a China mainlander and a HK resident. I can see why such a situation is flaring up.

HK - While the "same" people as mainland China, are a very different culturally to them.
China - No way will they let HK just become independent. If they do so, they'll have to do the same with Taiwan, Tibet, etc.

Blogger papabear October 09, 2019 1:48 PM  

China leadership probably does take the long view but it doesn't mean their calculations are correct.

Blogger God Emperor Memes October 09, 2019 3:21 PM  

I've been working with a few Chinese lately, and I have some Westernised Chinese friends.
Mainland Chinese genuinely believe everything their government tells them and they refuse to believe that there were purges and mass executions after the CCP took power. Non-Mainland Chinese despise Mainlanders as being arrogant and ignorant peasants. I have seen pics taken in HK, of visiting Mainlanders holding their children over rubbish bins, to urinate or defecate into them. A close friend witnessed a Mainlanders spread newspaper out on a train platform, shit on it, then roll the newspaper up and put it in a bin. I guess that puts them ahead of San Francisco...

Blogger God Emperor Memes October 09, 2019 3:27 PM  

"China's main point of hesitation is more likely to avoid creating a spectacle that hands U.S. neocons an excuse to entrench the American military even more deeply in Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan. Neocons would love another Tiananmen."
Really? - Because I don't recall anyone invading China after the first Tiananmen Square Massacre. The West might talk about sanctions but military action (not mere posturing) against China seems extremely unlikely.

Blogger Alexander October 09, 2019 3:46 PM  

It is simply not in the Chinese mindset to accept the idea that someone can be Chinese and be irrevocably separate from the Chinese nation, which (to them) must ultimatley be united in a single Chinese state.

It is equally unacceptable to them that a Chinese man might resist Chinese authority in Hong Kong or Taiwan as it is that he would do so in Vancouver or New York City. The difference for now though being the former two are full of entire populations resisting the "natural order", and proximity to China proper meaning there are other geopolitical concerns this opens.

But the Chinese expect ethnically Chinese ppl to advance Chinese interests however far afield they are, and despise the ones that do not.

So even if China *could* release Hong Kong without it having any other ramifications whatsoever, it would still be unthinkable to the Chinese mainlander. It would be like a leg or a finger insisting it would like to be amputated so that it might live independently of the body.

Blogger restless94110 October 09, 2019 4:47 PM  

So let me get this straight: some fool in totalitarian China admits that totalitarian China has just banned the entire internet for 2 weeks, now wants to tell you that muzzled and dominated Chinese in Red China don't like the Chinese in Hong Kong. And you publish this? And support it?

Wow. And I thought you were intelligent. My bad.

Blogger papabear October 09, 2019 5:08 PM  

@64 Does China allow access to foreign blogs on their internet?

Blogger Ominous Cowherd October 09, 2019 6:04 PM  

Uindo wrote:he Western States are in open revolt against the rightfully elected President of the US. They flaunt immigration laws openly, aribtrarily claim the president is breaking the law so they don't have to follow it, warn when ICE is showing up and even have antifa as a private hit squad. California is more loyal to foreign elements than not.

And silly people say that secession is impossible, as it happens all around us.

Blogger map October 09, 2019 6:46 PM  

"They have no intention of abiding by our cultural rules, I have personally seen two incidents where they openly defecate in the street, even outside the public bathroom"

That is actually pretty common in mainland China. Children have zippers running across the crotch so they can open and defecate upon the ground.

Beijing is full of large turds on the street.

Blogger map October 09, 2019 6:49 PM  

The point is that, despite whatever merits of the case, America is not going to go to war with China over Taiwan or Hong Kong.

Blogger Stephen October 09, 2019 9:35 PM  

https://www.judicialwatch.org/corruption-chronicles/trump-rids-major-u-s-container-port-of-chinese-communist-control/

Blogger Stephen October 09, 2019 9:37 PM  

https://preview.redd.it/xmlxhgabqlr31.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=bbaf8266d1094d004c81c0ed58f966c038fe281f

Blogger Orfeo October 09, 2019 9:51 PM  

This is pretty much the same as Sydney and Melbourne in Australia

Blogger Orfeo October 09, 2019 10:09 PM  

They’re both evil. But people in Australia and Canada, for instance, would probably still prefer being part of an evil empire where a strong bond of kinship exists.

I don’t think people in the US really grasp how despicable the Chinese are. They are rapidly colonizing Australian cities and holding us over an economic barrel. I would probably prefer Muslims as they are nowhere near as cunning and ruthless. And that’s saying a lot.

Blogger Orfeo October 09, 2019 10:21 PM  

The biggest problem China will have in establishing a global empire (if that is indeed their goal) is the negative experience other nations have had with their diaspora. Virtually no one actually likes the Chinese (apart from greedy politicians and property developers) and their culture is thoroughly unappealing to nearly everyone outside China.

In their heyday, at least the culture of empires such as that of the Greeks, Romans, British and Americans had much to admire.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd October 09, 2019 10:55 PM  

map wrote:That is actually pretty common in mainland China. Children have zippers running across the crotch so they can open and defecate upon the ground.

Zippers! That's new. In Taiwan, toddlers wore crotchless pants, instead of diapers. It's easy to clean a tile floor, hard to wash diapers.

Blogger SciVo October 10, 2019 4:01 AM  

vmax71 wrote:I am most fascinated regarding the NBA of how the powers that be in the league are you gonna figure out a way to get Darryl Morey the Houston Rockets general manager fired or “ Voluntarily resign“

As long as he stays the general manager of the Rockets China is going to throw a big hissy fit. And there’s no way the NBA is going to be able to do business with them


It is a fundamental culture clash. They cannot accept that a man has his own voice, and we cannot accept that he doesn't.

Whose culture will prevail? Which does the NBA want more: the foreigner's money or the countryman's approval?

I posit that the answer is China's culture will prevail over the NBA, because its decision-makers are TWANLOC (or never ever were).

Blogger buzzardist October 10, 2019 4:28 AM  

@62 That's not what I said. Read closer. I said nothing about anyone invading China. Even neocons would recognize that as stupid.

What I said is that neocons would use it as an excuse to deploy more troops in Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan, ink more defense deals with those countries and others in the region, and attempt to extend American power projection.

Neocons need one or two pariahs threatening every region of the world. The presence of a pariah justifies American military spending and scares others in the region into American tentacles. Neocons already have North Korea in East Asia, which is enough. However, they have begun to realize that China is not and never will be friendly to them. A new Tiananmen, combined with China's aggressive territorial claims in the South China Sea and elsewhere, will open doors for neocons to try to worm their way in deeper among China's neighbors. It would also keep Americans scared/outraged enough not to challenge the neocons back at home.

Blogger Paul M October 10, 2019 9:18 AM  

Fuzzums Wuzzums wrote:This wording has been used a lot and it's probably the core of the issue. HK, like a child, is throwing a fit to see how far it can go.

It's ridiculous to pretend a nation, or a state, or whatever HK is to a small child. It's run by old men, same as anywhere else. It has a history. The metaphor is simply invalid. You may as well claim that China is basically a slice of blue cheese, or that germany, essentially, is a kettle. A city/island of seven million people is not a small child.

Blogger RickZ October 10, 2019 11:51 PM  

Brick Hardslab:

Because it's been overtaken by subsequent events. And no you try a man where he committed the crime not where you want.
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We move trials out of the jurisdiction of the crime all the time, but usually within the same state. But here is one case where that did not happen: Timothy McVeigh committed his crime in Oklahoma City but he was tried in Denver.

Blogger Birdman October 11, 2019 1:18 AM  

That's true both have the right to do that. And so fat the US still ruled most of the world, but not too long anymore

Blogger Birdman October 11, 2019 1:22 AM  

Yes both evil, and the current empire will eventually fall, with that the later will take over

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