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Wednesday, October 09, 2019

Market vs society

The Z-Man considers the way in which conservatism now attempts to conserve the market rather than the society:
If one were to summarize why Buckley-style conservatism failed, the clearest answer is that it stopped being conservative. The central tenets of conservatism are tradition, organic society, hierarchy, authority, property rights and prudence. In the Anglo-Saxon model, ordered liberty can also be included. The limits on authority are the logic of a fixed and orderly legal system. Probably the most concise explanation of American conservatism came from Russel Kirk seventy years ago.

Buckley conservatism, in contrast, was never deeply rooted in social philosophy and this was a deliberate act. The Buckleyites wanted a create a political movement that could compete with Progressives. In order to do that it meant winning elections and that meant providing a practical platform for governance. As a result, Buckley conservatism was always a compromise. In order to fashion a practical political platform, it meant deviating from conservative dogma as necessity required.

This lack of ideological moorings, however, led it to drift away from conservatism toward something that is better described as marketism. Libertarians see property as the key to individual liberty. All human rights derive from ownership of self and property is the fruit of labor, so absolute property rights safeguard individual liberty. Marketism, in contrast, views liberty as the unfettered right to trade property and labor. Therefore, liberty is maximized only through the free and unregulated marketplace.

In both cases, the definition of individual liberty is at odds with conservative conceptions of individual liberty, as well as the tenets of conservatism. The Right has always understood that a man could only be free within the context of society. To exist within a society, he must gain control of his passions and master himself. Customs and traditions, which habituated him to his duties as a member of society, also channeled his energies to that which served the good of his society.
This doesn't address the entirety of the problem, but it is a good start. The reality is that Kirk-style conservatism was every bit as doomed, even if it didn't stop being conservative, because it is not a coherent political philosophy, it is only an attitude.

Of course, that which by any name conserves nothing will not be able to conserve the free market because it did not conserve the society that values free markets.

Labels:

74 Comments:

Blogger Sargent.matrim October 09, 2019 8:30 AM  

Couldn't we observe that conservatives already have failed to conserve the free market?

Crony capitalism, bowing to leftist regulartory pressure (stuff like Carbon taxes and much, much more), conservative politicians being bought out by lobby groups and foreign nations, in so many ways the free market is now a myth.

So we can safely say as you often say: conservatives have failed to conserve anything. Even the ladies room.

Blogger Stilicho October 09, 2019 8:35 AM  

Yes, definitely too much credit given to Kirk. I'd say too much credit given to Buckley as well. Buckley only sought to keep his bowtie properly aligned while he profited from managing the rate of leftist victory.

Blogger Nation-Deprived October 09, 2019 8:41 AM  

Can you give an example of a principle versus an attitude? Is the difference not standing strong enough against something you disagree with?

Blogger VD October 09, 2019 8:54 AM  

Can you give an example of a principle versus an attitude? Is the difference not standing strong enough against something you disagree with?

Yes. No.

Blogger DannyDanger October 09, 2019 8:57 AM  

Looking for help understanding the "conservatism is a posture" idea...

"The central tenets of conservatism are tradition, organic society, hierarchy, authority, property rights and prudence."

So essentially, conservatism doesn't actually define which traditions are important, only that it is important to have traditions. It doesn't define which hierarchy, only that it is important to have hierarchy. Etc.

So conservatism doesn't actually take a firm position on anything of significance, but simply identifies things people ought to value as being important to society? ex) A good society should give consideration to property rights...A good society would have a form of hierarchy...

Is this a correct understanding?

Blogger Jab Burrwalky October 09, 2019 8:57 AM  

When former SCOTUS Justice Kennedy can be described as a "Conservative who supports Gay Rights" you know the word has no meaning.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan October 09, 2019 8:58 AM  

The comments are good, but a warning for GenXers Ayatollah's comment that is at the beginning not favorable.

Blogger VD October 09, 2019 9:02 AM  

So essentially, conservatism doesn't actually define which traditions are important, only that it is important to have traditions.

Correct.

So conservatism doesn't actually take a firm position on anything of significance

Correct.

but simply identifies things people ought to value as being important to society?

Incorrect. It doesn't identify those things. That's why conservatism is always a moving target. That's why it is observed to lack principles.

Blogger PseudonymousMe October 09, 2019 9:07 AM  

Moreover, the twin goals (or KPIs) of a society to “conservatives” (or rather eternal reformatists) ought to be preservation and virtue.

Which virtue in our case ought to be defined as Christian stoïcism.

The original sin of the American founding is not slavery (although disastrous and imo immoral and sinful) but failing to explicitly found a Christian state.

Blogger peacefulposter October 09, 2019 9:09 AM  

"Conservatives conserve dick."

They can't even conserve that! See Caitlyn Jenner.

Blogger dienw October 09, 2019 9:12 AM  

Here is a conservative principle I never heard of before: Ambition!

Ambition is bitch'n! Greed is Good!

Cannot wait to see the outcome...oh, wait...Robber Barons!

Blogger Wraithburn October 09, 2019 9:23 AM  

I have to thank you Vox for publishing Dr. Hallpike's Do We Need God to be Good, that book does an excellent job of cutting through the BS around "rights" that conservatives and libertarian types like to through around.

As the Z-Man notices, individual liberty only makes sense in the context of a society. But he doesn't go far enough. Dr. Hallpike shows that placing the ego first will devolve into what we have now. It is only by centering on Duty to God that we have an arbitrator between individuals and society.

Blogger David Ray Milton October 09, 2019 9:25 AM  

I’m currently reading Deneen’s Why Liberalism Failed. So far, it’s mostly brilliant observation mixed in with some word salad. But I love his observation that Conservatism and Liberalism as current political movements are two sides of the same coin. The conservative’s goal of free market activity in turn feeds the beast of the liberal goal of the unfettered and ‘equal’ individual. The two movements can’t exist without each other. Both are tradition and culture destroying mechanisms.

Of course, anyone can easily see that conservatism is not at odds with liberalism by observing like so many have that: Current Conservative Platform = Current Liberal Platform - Twenty Years.

Blogger James Dixon October 09, 2019 9:43 AM  

> Libertarians see property as the key to individual liberty. All human rights derive from ownership of self and property is the fruit of labor, so absolute property rights safeguard individual liberty. Marketism, in contrast, views liberty as the unfettered right to trade property and labor. Therefore, liberty is maximized only through the free and unregulated marketplace.

The Declaration of Independence actually gets this correct: "that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights". The others are merely arguing which forms best safeguard them when in fact neither is sufficient.

Blogger matism October 09, 2019 9:44 AM  

The alleged "conservatives merely dance to the tune of the Koch-sucking Rove Republican swill. Think Songbird McShame. Or any of the Shrubs. Or Mittens. Or Weepy. Or Lyin' Ryan.

Blogger VD October 09, 2019 9:44 AM  

a warning for GenXers Ayatollah's comment that is at the beginning not favorable.

Just the usual gamma narcissistic and delusionary drivel. Notice that for all the guy's self-proclaimed superiority, the clueless infantile man with no worthy interests IS HIS BOSS.

What are the odds that he is married with children?

Blogger VFM #7634 October 09, 2019 9:48 AM  

@David Ray Milton

Or, wherever and whenever conservatism (capitalism) and liberalism (Marxism) violate Christian morality and cause problems for society, they feed the other.

Blogger Damelon Brinn October 09, 2019 9:53 AM  

"The central tenets of conservatism are tradition, organic society, hierarchy, authority, property rights and prudence."

That's what I used to believe, and it sounds like the reason many normal Americans call themselves conservative. But having read some of the quotes about conservatives from over a century ago that Vox has posted lately, which sound like they could have come from the 1990s, I wonder if it was ever true.

It doesn't identify those things.

Ah, that's a big key. So one tradition can be replaced with another and they're fine with it. Baseball, hot dogs, apple pie, and Chevrolet can be replaced with soccer, burritos, iPhones, and poo in the streets. The new traditions will be fine, as long as we can buy stuff.

Blogger Andy Evick October 09, 2019 9:56 AM  

Last year Roosh V published an excellent article worth checking out, "Conservatives are Losers." These grifters and wimps are susceptible to leftist ideas and have no backbone and can't even conserve the Boy Scouts.

"Since I know conservatives will not win, I do not identify as one, because I don’t see myself as a loser." - Roosh

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 October 09, 2019 9:57 AM  

To the libertarian, free economics is the moral authority and that when men are free, they will choose to do good.

Unfortunately, they have it backwards. Free markets can only exist in a high-trust society where everyone strives for honesty and Truth.

Blogger Chris Ritchie October 09, 2019 10:03 AM  

Part of this is addressed in the book (written by a Catholic), Liberty, The God That Failed. I haven't read the entirety of the book because it is a tome. But Vox is right, this is only a good start. The Market is not an end, but a result. The goalposts have been moved. The first order of business is the proper place and worship of God the Creator. Then, the submission of our wills to Christ: every knee shall bow. The fruit of those structures is private property, an ordered legal system, and only THEN, a free market constrained by the bounds of what we all call Western Civilization.

"Conservatism" replaced God and Society with the Market. I like they call it Marketism. This is a good start to admitting the root of the problem is our straying from God.

The biggest problem is that we all want the benefits of God and His Ways, without any of the accountability. See Peale, Napoleon Hill, currently Oprah, and others. Ayn Rand probably. Can't have the benefits of God without following His ways.

Blogger Nation-Deprived October 09, 2019 10:12 AM  

Your last paragraph really helps me get it, thanks.

Blogger Brainspirit October 09, 2019 10:14 AM  

Only difference between conservatives and liberals at this point is high taxes-high benefits vs low taxes-low benefits.

Blogger Sam October 09, 2019 10:15 AM  

@9
"The original sin of the American founding is not slavery (although disastrous and imo immoral and sinful) but failing to explicitly found a Christian state. "

The problem isn't slavery; the problem was importing slaves.

As for founding a Christian state, the issue was two fold. One, there were different forms of Christianity in the US and two, the US is a democracy. In an autocratic state, when religious authorities step out of line the leader stops them. In a democracy they side with a faction and proceed to become crazier and crazier as they demonstrate their fitness to rule by more extreme forms of dedication to the state faith.

Blogger pilgims progress October 09, 2019 10:25 AM  

"Only difference between conservatives and liberals at this point is high taxes-high benefits vs low taxes-low benefits"

As a Christian moving from a blue state to a red state in search of family values, I found the "conservatives" to be more immoral and treat the lower income classes like slaves. All those foreigners in blue states have a better quality of life than the red state native peons. CONservatives are vile.

Blogger BastionHarm October 09, 2019 10:32 AM  

pilgims progress wrote:As a Christian moving from a blue state to a red state in search of family values, I found the "conservatives" to be more immoral and treat the lower income classes like slaves. All those foreigners in blue states have a better quality of life than the red state native peons. CONservatives are vile.


Most "Conservatives" I know are, first and foremost, worshippers of Mammon and Mammon's (((chosen))), not Christ (even though they claim to worship the latter) so this doesn't surprise me.

Blogger pilgims progress October 09, 2019 10:48 AM  

"Most "Conservatives" I know are, first and foremost, worshippers of Mammon and Mammon's (((chosen))), not Christ (even though they claim to worship the latter) so this doesn't surprise me."

Yep. It's just a giant trailer park culture on crappy land with hostile yahoos in trucks waving the American flag. They got nothing. I was just surprised how degraded it really is.

Blogger cecilhenry October 09, 2019 10:52 AM  



Genocide your entire race for the economy, goy!



These anti-Whites (Cuckservatives and Libtards alike) would literally render cultures, languages and races extinct for 2% more GDP growth.



What does a ((("stronger economy"))) matter if your people don't exist?

Blogger Crush Limbraw October 09, 2019 11:08 AM  

Best definition by Z is Conservatism=Marketism. It truly defines 'our values'!
However, the general problem with political labels is that they're meaningless - too much interpretation required because they're entirely malleable over time.
My bottom line understanding of politics is that it comes out of the back end of the alimentary canal of a society's life and culture. So the question becomes: Who's feeding DaBeast?
You know the rest of the story - 'educayshon', media and the controlled general public information narrative.
Conservatives and Churchians both still don't understand that cause and effect relationship - thus maintaining their delusion that they can change the DaBeast's health while letting their children being fed by those who feed DaBeast.
If nothing else, Vox has confirmed for me that there is no other way to have a healthy society, but with Christianity, the G-R legacy of law and primacy of the people who have developed and can maintain it.
The hardest part has been the development of enough maturity within the society to discern between good and evil - Hebrews 5:11-6:2.
That's why I'm here!

Blogger John Best. October 09, 2019 11:15 AM  

Interesting that Conservatism was using in Britain at the peak of its power in the 1830's. They used it again in the US when it was at the peak of its power. Just 90 years leader Britain was bankrupt, was in the process of giving up its navy and lost over 1,000,000 men.

Blogger Chris Ritchie October 09, 2019 11:22 AM  

@13 - Went for coffee and hot chocolate with my 12 year old daughter this morning. Pointed out this exact thing, that "equal" is a lie. Fairness does not exist in the Bible, unless we are talking about the fairness of all of us being condemned as the sinners we are. But I tried to point out the subtle lie of the Left that people are equal, and not to fall for it.

Blogger Damelon Brinn October 09, 2019 11:41 AM  

Only difference between conservatives and liberals at this point is high taxes-high benefits vs low taxes-low benefits.

And the low-benefits side is more theory than reality. Find five conservatives and see if you can get them to agree unanimously on cutting a single spending program other than certain types of foreign aid and certain types of welfare, and then watch as they carve those up with exceptions until there are no real cuts left.

Blogger James Dixon October 09, 2019 12:14 PM  

> As a Christian moving from a blue state to a red state in search of family values, I found the "conservatives" to be more immoral and treat the lower income classes like slaves.

I'll take "Things that never happened" for $200, Alex.

Blogger Subnif. October 09, 2019 12:14 PM  

Can man ever really be free in sin
(as a group)

Blogger James Dixon October 09, 2019 12:20 PM  

> Find five conservatives and see if you can get them to agree unanimously on cutting a single spending program other than certain types of foreign aid and certain types of welfare,

Which is why a simple percentage cut across the board is the best way to proceed.

Blogger sammibandit October 09, 2019 12:41 PM  

Yep. It's just a giant trailer park culture on crappy land with hostile yahoos in trucks waving the American flag. They got nothing. I was just surprised how degraded it really is.

You're a stranger in a strange land, my brother. Your outsider perspective doesn't lend itself to moral certitude on a group of people you admit to being displeased with. In my parts the fastest way to convey that information to outsiders wanting a piece of the pie is in a popular idiom: fit in or fuck off.

Blogger RC October 09, 2019 12:45 PM  

@pilgims progress

If true, you chose poorly.

Blogger cecilhenry October 09, 2019 12:50 PM  


REgarding the 'market' economy, on a slight tangent, I can't believe a major US company put out this ad:



The new @whirlpoolusa ad.: Damn. It IS REAL!!!!!!

"It's a few weeks old and they removed it after our intense backlash."

I thought surely, surely such vicious anti-White hate is just a joke. But a major company??

https://i.imgur.com/976s3W0.png


Its all about the markets right???

Blogger Ominous Cowherd October 09, 2019 12:52 PM  

pilgims progress wrote:As a Christian moving from a blue state to a red state in search of family values, I found the "conservatives" to be more immoral and treat the lower income classes like slaves. All those foreigners in blue states have a better quality of life than the red state native peons. CONservatives are vile.

You have to go back.

Blogger xevious2030 October 09, 2019 1:00 PM  

“As a Christian moving from a blue state to a red state in search of family values, I found the ‘conservatives’ to be more immoral and treat the lower income classes like slaves.”

Since your state has a higher standard of living, and red states are so bad, are you intent on moving back to a blue state?

Blogger Damelon Brinn October 09, 2019 1:00 PM  

It's just a giant trailer park culture on crappy land with hostile yahoos in trucks waving the American flag.

We call it Friday night.

Blogger pilgims progress October 09, 2019 1:08 PM  

"You're a stranger in a strange land, my brother."

Nope sir. See below. Lets just say I see through the Hegelian Dialectic after moving around. And the CUCKservative version is crappier and will be finished in a little while, see Cali, Texas etc...


"If true, you chose poorly."

Maybe. I grew up in a red state, its EXACTELY how I forgot/remembered it. It wasn't until recently with Vox's help and relocating I saw how completely morally and spiritually bankrupt Cuckservatism/Churchianity really is.

"You have to go back."

You can have it. Don't care to live among such posers with "muh constitution and freeDUMBS". We are looking to repatriate. You can stick a fork in AmeriKa.

Blogger pilgims progress October 09, 2019 1:13 PM  

"We call it Friday night."

Yeah all those tatted land whales with kids at the convenience stores LOL, you almost feel sorry for their cuckservatives "boyfriends" hanging out in their trucks.

Blogger pilgims progress October 09, 2019 1:15 PM  

Correction: "It wasn't until recently with Vox's and John Red Eagle's help...

Blogger Skyler the Weird October 09, 2019 1:18 PM  

Sounds like someone who feels highly insulted because no one wants to listen to "how we did it up North."

Blogger pilgims progress October 09, 2019 1:19 PM  

"Since your state has a higher standard of living, and red states are so bad, are you intent on moving back to a blue state?"

No, we are done with Amerika and it's so-called "freeDUMBS". Vox has the right idea.

Blogger SciVo October 09, 2019 1:21 PM  

Nation-Deprived wrote:Can you give an example of a principle versus an attitude? Is the difference not standing strong enough against something you disagree with?

BHO is a walking example. He was a huge disappointment to progressives, because he only had preferences, not principles. So, after all of his words, he never actually stood for anything at all. Perfectly comfortable with doing the opposite of what he said.

Blogger Joe October 09, 2019 1:23 PM  

"Buckley conservatism, in contrast, was never deeply rooted in social philosophy and this was a deliberate act. The Buckleyites wanted a create a political movement that could compete with Progressives. In order to do that it meant winning elections and that meant providing a practical platform for governance. As a result, Buckley conservatism was always a compromise. In order to fashion a practical political platform, it meant deviating from conservative dogma as necessity required."

In short, it's Controlled Opposition.

Blogger Skyler the Weird October 09, 2019 1:24 PM  

You mean the tattooed Mud Whalesharks with the kids in the convenience store picking up some Mad Dog , Colt 45, and Kool 100's for Trayvon and Lemonjello out in the truck.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd October 09, 2019 1:26 PM  

Skyler the Weird wrote:Sounds like someone who feels highly insulted because no one wants to listen to "how we did it up North."

Or ``how we did it in New York City,'' or ``how we did it in California.'' Living in a shithole pollutes your mind. Don't do it.

pilgims progress wrote:I found the "conservatives" to be more immoral and treat the lower income classes like slaves.

The Lefties treat the lower orders like exotic pets and zoo animals. That is obviously morally superior, since it's Left. Who-whom, and all that.

PP, you have to go back.

Blogger Damelon Brinn October 09, 2019 1:34 PM  

Maybe. I grew up in a red state, its EXACTELY how I forgot/remembered it.

You're not good at this. If you're going to pretend to be disappointed at what you found when you moved out to the country and blame it on a political group, you can't admit you found what you were looking for and start ranting about all of "Amerika."

We're well aware of the problems we have out here, most of which have been transmitted from your precious cities via the TV and schools. We don't need some Kansas City faggot to lecture us about them because he didn't find a Norman Rockwell painting when he decided to flee his urban nest.

Blogger xevious2030 October 09, 2019 1:35 PM  

"No, we are done with Amerika and it's so-called "freeDUMBS". Vox has the right idea."

Was curious, thanks. Maybe moths, with the porchlight about to turn off.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd October 09, 2019 1:43 PM  

pilgims progress wrote:... I saw how completely morally and spiritually bankrupt Cuckservatism/Churchianity really is.

Sadly, there are far too many cucks and churchians out here in God's country. Chasing off people like PP will help us heal them.

Blogger sammibandit October 09, 2019 2:01 PM  

Maybe. I grew up in a red state, its EXACTELY how I forgot/remembered it. It wasn't until recently with Vox's help and relocating I saw how completely morally and spiritually bankrupt Cuckservatism/Churchianity really is.

What made you think it would be any better?

Blogger ZhukovG October 09, 2019 2:07 PM  

All men are slaves. It is only given to us to choose our master.

Blogger Newscaper312 October 09, 2019 2:24 PM  

Vox, LOL (or at least a chuckle) at

Can you give an example of a principle versus an attitude? Is the difference not standing strong enough against something you disagree with?

Yes. No.

I guess instead of "Can you X" it should've "Will you X" or perhaps just "Please X".
I had a male HS algebra teacher who would sometimes answer "Is it X or Y" with "Yes" to emphasize logic.

Blogger justaguy October 09, 2019 2:25 PM  

There has to be some ideology to oppose the progressive ideology of the elite that think that they know best how to operate society. Burke put forth an ideal and a way for society to operate. Kirk stretched a bit from Burke, but Buckley distorted it. There has to be something. Some talk about Christian Nationalism, some say Burke (conservatism) (very fuzzy in definition), but R's have nothing.

Blogger James Dixon October 09, 2019 2:32 PM  

> You can have it. Don't care to live among such posers with "muh constitution and freeDUMBS". We are looking to repatriate.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out. Though with that much to aim for, it might be hard to avoid it.

> What made you think it would be any better?

A very good question: https://www.pitt.edu/~dash/traveltales.html#twotravelersandfarmer

Blogger Ransom Smith October 09, 2019 2:34 PM  

All those foreigners in blue states have a better quality of life than the red state native peons. CONservatives are vile.
Bearer of bag wrought from carpet.
Thou must return to thine land forthwith.

Blogger DarwinIsAHarshMistress October 09, 2019 4:38 PM  

America -- as "high concept" -- was foudned as an explicitly Christian polity/government. I don't think it's fair to call Plymouth Rock, and certainly not Jamestown, "states" in that sense.

New England was a functional theocracy even past the adoption of the Constitution.

What you really mean, and many do this with you, is the foundation of the United States OF America. You see, the "citizens" of the US are American states.

Trivia: "American" is not found in the U.S. Code for citizenship. One will find only references to U.S. Citizenship.

You might say these paperwork Americans ought to be called USers.

Blogger CM October 09, 2019 4:41 PM  

Damelon Brinn wrote:"The central tenets of conservatism are tradition, organic society, hierarchy, authority, property rights and prudence."

That's what I used to believe, and it sounds like the reason many normal Americans call themselves conservative. But having read some of the quotes about conservatives from over a century ago that Vox has posted lately, which sound like they could have come from the 1990s, I wonder if it was ever true.


Then what are the origins of what normal Americans consider "conservative"?

Blogger Hammerli 280 October 09, 2019 6:12 PM  

The Buckleyites were always operatives of the Plutocrat wing of the Republican Party.

From its creation, the GOP has had a Populist and a Plutocrat faction. The Plutocrats usually hold the upper hand, because they pay attention in the off-years...but the Populists are the only ones who can deliver large wins. The Plutocrats win small if they win at all. And their goals are only the preservation of a favorable environment for big business. They don't give a damn about the common man.

Blogger Brick Hardslab October 09, 2019 6:23 PM  

Excellent plan glad to know I don't need to worry about more liberals fleeing their fouled nests.

Blogger map October 09, 2019 6:55 PM  

I have always seen conservatism as a revolutionary movement: either to resurrect something valuable that has been lost or to strengthen something valuable that has been weakened. That makes conservatism a viable program of action over taking literally the root word "conserve."

Yet, it's equally important to understand that your enemy defines the battle-space through his actions. In year zero, there is only nationalism vs. subversion: That which is not nationalism is subversion. It is like the emergence of fascism as the antidote to communism.

I'm reminded of the old debate over what is "White." White is not monolithic. There is French, German, Irish, Polish, etc., and never shall the lot meet. But the enemy makes no such distinction. The enemy only identifies "white." Remember that when you are trying to define conservatism.

Blogger map October 09, 2019 6:57 PM  

Furthermore, market economies are just tools. The tools work for you. You don't work for the tools.

Blogger 7916 October 09, 2019 7:01 PM  

@61

Origin is God.

What better way to trash what is right, beautiful, and true than, like the meme goes, co-opting it, gutting it, and wearing it like a skinsuit?

Blogger SciVo October 09, 2019 7:03 PM  

Newscaper312 wrote:I had a male HS algebra teacher who would sometimes answer "Is it X or Y" with "Yes" to emphasize logic.

You don't need to be a HS algebra teacher to do that (although I have been); it's enough to have seen It's a Wonderful Life. But it is still a true and useful concept.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 09, 2019 8:41 PM  

pilgims progress wrote:We are looking to repatriate. You can stick a fork in AmeriKa.
Repatriate.
Not an American.
You can fuck right off. When we want an ignorant foreigner's opinion, we'll conquer him.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 09, 2019 8:45 PM  

justaguy wrote:Burke put forth an ideal and a way for society to operate.
No. He certainly did not. He was a vigourous and intelligent critic of many of the great wrongs of his era. He never put forth a program of an ideal society.

Blogger Thad Tuiol October 10, 2019 3:44 AM  

justaguy wrote:
Burke put forth an ideal and a way for society to operate.


You clowns bagging on Burke is just too much. At least read him first before you open your stupid yaps.

Blogger RedJack October 11, 2019 12:32 PM  

Depends on the area. Most of the immigrants I work with are purple at wost and trending red. Which is ironic. One of my guys is a second generation American, and is very anti illegal immigration for the same reason I am
We outlawed slavery, why start it up again?

Blogger RedJack October 11, 2019 12:35 PM  

About the only thing I offer to my southern friends is advice on snow removal. And mocking each others football team, but that is mutual sadness

Blogger smacker October 13, 2019 12:19 AM  

"When we want an ignorant foreigner's opinion, we'll conquer him."

Fuck you stupid-ass bitch.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 13, 2019 2:03 AM  

You have to go back.

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