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Thursday, October 24, 2019

The Blue Marble myth

Owen Benjamin explains how technology outruns the Big Lies:
What is the coolest thing you’ve ever done as part of your job at Goddard?

The last time anyone took a photograph from above low Earth orbit that showed an entire hemisphere (one side of a globe) was in 1972 during Apollo 17. NASA’s Earth Observing System (EOS) satellites were designed to give a check-up of Earth’s health. By 2002, we finally had enough data to make a snap shot of the entire Earth. So we did. The hard part was creating a flat map of the Earth’s surface with four months’ of satellite data. Reto Stockli, now at the Swiss Federal Office of Meteorology and Climatology, did much of this work. Then we wrapped the flat map around a ball. My part was integrating the surface, clouds, and oceans to match people’s expectations of how Earth looks from space. That ball became the famous Blue Marble.

I was happy with it but had no idea how widespread it would become. We never thought it would become an icon. I certainly never thought that I would become “Mr. Blue Marble.”

We have since updated the base maps by increasing the resolution and, for 2004, we made a series of monthly maps.
Notice that ALL of the hemisphere photography we think we've seen has turned out to be nonexistent. It's becoming clear that from the evolution fairy tale to the Blue Marble fraud to the dinosaur fraud and the satellite myth, the world is very, very different than we have been told it is. What is the point? To deceive you into serving Satan rather than God.



The satellite balloon technology also explains how the US can keep putting up satellites despite not having any rockets capable of sending up astronauts. I particularly enjoyed the video of the NASA satellite released by the Space Shuttle that was dangling from a wire.

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274 Comments:

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Blogger Oakes Spalding October 24, 2019 11:13 AM  

Can you explain the nature of the Big Blue Marble "fraud"?

Blogger Ska_Boss October 24, 2019 11:14 AM  

This was a great episode, well done Owen!

Blogger Joe Smith October 24, 2019 11:15 AM  

Whatever anyone thinks about the whole flat earth deal, there's definitely a lot of lies going on here. Not that it's tough to imagine our elites lying to us or anything.

Blogger Gregory the Great October 24, 2019 11:18 AM  

When Trump started calling everything fake news did he know that soon everybody would doubt everything and that people would start using their own brain again instead of believing the standard explanation.

We know you've deceived us, now here's a surprise...
We can see for miles and miles and miles and miles and miles...


Blogger sammibandit October 24, 2019 11:18 AM  

Similar idea but different application. Most of the models of hominid skulls we have are virtually whole cloth fabrications based on extremely small bone fragments or a single tooth. Someone will find a premolar for example and say there's too many biting points/cusps on it to be another type of tooth and then say that tooth represents a new species instead of saying it's actually a molar or whatever.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 24, 2019 11:23 AM  

Does Owen have other stuff for his dinosaur interpretation besides the article about radioactive dinosaur bones? Because that article's BS according to everyone, mainstream even as far as I can tell.

We've known that Brontosaur IIRC was made up for some time. Some of the smaller "prehistoric" critters on the other hand I've dug out myself with my father. These are smaller than modern crocodiles, so I have no idea about the larger ones.

Between knowing that:
A: The most difficult lie to detect is almost entirely true.
B: Even worse is two opposed lies each about half true.

My interpretation is that a lot of the dinosaur stuff is about covering up or dis-crediting dragons, which themselves historically seem to have something to do with angels, fallen or otherwise. I have a hard time rationalizing that whole deal being made up JUST to try to claim the Earth is older than it is. Then again, liars tend to do way too much work, one of their telltales, so maybe it is.

Also dovetails with what I think about the lying astronauts. Not sure they're necessarily lying about going to the moon, suspect they saw something "unacceptable" and were threatened to shut up about it. Whether that's flat Earth, or demons in space, or what, who knows.

Blogger Guy Incognito October 24, 2019 11:28 AM  

I always view flat-earthers with suspicion.

That being said, they lack of drop-off in line of sight over miles is interesting and I'm going to have to take a dive into it.

I suffer from enough intelligence to sense something's wrong, but not enough to actually sus out why.

Blogger [Redacted] October 24, 2019 11:30 AM  

The ride never ends.

Blogger Talios Hammerfist October 24, 2019 11:31 AM  

It's clear that the elites are lying about the globe model. However, I see the false binary that Owen speaks of when I try engaging with flat-earthers. Often, I receive something like, 'We are completely rational, so if you're a globe-denier you can't believe in a sky daddy' or 'we only look at the facts and no fake spiritual crap'. I think that camp is cancerous.

Blogger michimartini October 24, 2019 11:32 AM  

All "hominid" skulls are either "reconstructions" from inacceptably small fragments, fully human or extinct apes.

Blogger Tile Maker October 24, 2019 11:35 AM  

Facing so many lies, i sometimes just want off this ride.

Blogger michimartini October 24, 2019 11:36 AM  

The problem is that they find C14 levels above machine background in ALL the real dinosaur fossils. Which destroys their timeline.

Blogger Joe Smith October 24, 2019 11:37 AM  

Oh and apparently the answer to, "What is the coolest thing you’ve ever done as part of your job at Goddard?" is: "Lie to everyone." He apparently says it with a straight face, too.

@6 I like Owen, and I think he's funny, but he sometimes goes off half-cocked. He ends up being right a lot of the time, but occasionally he says things that are just physically incorrect (e.g., the vacuum of space sucking off the atmosphere in the globe model). I'm not sure about the dinosaur bones thing, though. Sounds fishy to me, but I also don't have any trouble believing I'm being lied to by the establishment.

Blogger R Webfoot October 24, 2019 11:42 AM  

"Can you explain the nature of the Big Blue Marble "fraud"?"

The "Blue Marble" picture was billed as a photograph taken from space.
Apparently, though, it started as several satellite photos, stitched together in a panorama. Then, this guy made it look better with 1970's era Photoshop. Part of what he did was to change how it looked to match what people expected, but I don't know what that was specifically. Even without deceitful intent, they'd have to do some photoshop work to stitch the panorama together if the satellite photos weren't taken at the same instant, otherwise there would be obvious seams in the cloud cover.

Blogger IrishFarmer October 24, 2019 11:44 AM  

Id actually find a flat Earth disproves a higher maker. At least one who isnt building with the equivalent of a box of crayons and safety scissors. But thats just, like, my opinion, man.

Blogger carnaby October 24, 2019 11:53 AM  

The image was manipulated to show clouds that make sense I assume because the composite images used to create the final image were taken at different times and if used unchanged would yield an unpleasant and not particularly useful result.

I love Owen, but his claim that the earth is not a ball is very dumb.

Blogger Nate October 24, 2019 11:55 AM  

Jesus... The earth is not flat.

Blogger Jeff aka Orville October 24, 2019 11:55 AM  

If the earth is flat how come all the other observable planets are spheres? Or how to explain the orbits of Demos and Phoebos around Mars? If Mars were a big red pancake in the sky, then it's gravitational mass would totally mess with the orbits of it's two small moons.

Or how does the giant Red Spot on flat Jupiter keep sliding off one edge and reappearing on the other?

Besides, I've looked through a telescope so I'm going to believe my own eyes.

Blogger carnaby October 24, 2019 11:56 AM  

To my last comment - assuming the goal is to create an accurate representation of the earth at a moment of time by composing many images taken at different times. This would require massaging of the clouds and lighting.

Blogger Jeff aka Orville October 24, 2019 11:56 AM  

Unevenly distributed gravitational mass of large flat objects for the slow ones in the class.

Blogger Joseph Dooley October 24, 2019 11:59 AM  

To clear up the confusion evidenced by some posters, the fraud at issue is the 2002 model, not the Apollo 17 picture.

Blogger Unknownsailor October 24, 2019 11:59 AM  

Snipers shooting large caliber rifles at extreme long range have to account for earth curvature. This would not be necessary on a flat earth.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 24, 2019 12:00 PM  

"When Trump started calling everything fake news did he know that soon everybody would doubt everything and that people would start using their own brain again instead of believing the standard explanation."

Unfortunately what's being exposed is that most people don't possess brains to use, and absent adherence to the orthodoxy nearly everyone is a complete lunatic.

All the losers and loons hop on whatever rebellion against authority. Anything to rationalize themselves.

We need strong, sane leaders growing, and fast, or we're in for a whole world more hurt than even anyone here is predicting.

Blogger Gregory the Great October 24, 2019 12:01 PM  

@18 That Jupiter may well be a ball does not disprove that the earth might be flat.

Blogger R Webfoot October 24, 2019 12:02 PM  

"Id actually find a flat Earth disproves a higher maker. At least one who isnt building with the equivalent of a box of crayons and safety scissors. But thats just, like, my opinion, man."

I think it's a mistake to read much of a narrative into such theories of fact. Almost any theory can be made to fit any narrative.

Some people don't like the idea of a big universe because they associate it with nihilistic ideas that humanity is irrelevant. I am fine with it, since I associate it with Christian scientists in awe of the wonders of Creation, and because it means no emperor of Man will ever be able to look up without seeing how small he is.

And neither of those is proof, or even a strong argument, for any theory of the size of the universe.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 24, 2019 12:03 PM  

"Jesus... The earth is not flat."

Welcome to the world where the pendulum of trust swings back and massively overshoots, and we realize how isolated most people actually are in their knowledge and limited in their intellectual capabilities.

I've been on the ocean and watched ships come up over the horizon, all times of day and night, all temperatures and weather conditions. This means it can't be atmospheric lensing, and it's not parallax or perspective. I agree it's definitely curved. How much, I don't know.

Blogger ar10308 October 24, 2019 12:03 PM  

I love Owen and have been following him for years, however with regards to facts about Earth and Space, he has the tendency to extrapolate Rhetoric in to Dialectic conclusions about the nature of what has been observed from that.
When he talks about NASA is when he does it most prominently.

He's highly intelligent and Rhetorically gifted, but he doesn't use Dialectic when it comes to this kind of thing.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 24, 2019 12:05 PM  

"Snipers shooting large caliber rifles at extreme long range have to account for earth curvature."

Seriously doubt, no one can hit jack past about two miles, if even that. Sounds like braggartry or urban legend.

Blogger R Webfoot October 24, 2019 12:06 PM  

"To clear up the confusion evidenced by some posters, the fraud at issue is the 2002 model, not the Apollo 17 picture."

Thank you. Now I'm more confused, as I don't really get what the fraud is supposed to be. Did they ever claim the 2002 model was a photograph taken from space, or was the Apollo 17 picture really a panorama?

Blogger Daniele Grech Pereira October 24, 2019 12:06 PM  

Italian style gravy.

Blogger Philippe October 24, 2019 12:06 PM  

I don't know what to make out of all of this. But all I can tell, as an engineer in electronics. GPS on your phone do not use any satellites. It uses the emiting atenas and then triangulates location.

Blogger Joseph Dooley October 24, 2019 12:08 PM  

The excerpt in the OP states the last time a photo was taken of the whole side of Earth was Apollo 17.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 24, 2019 12:12 PM  

"GPS on your phone do not use any satellites. It uses the emiting atenas and then triangulates location."

Exactly. Most phones don't have satellite transmission capability. GPS is a catchword. I've used the actual military system linked up to satellites, but most people use something totally different by the same name.

Blogger Out of Nod October 24, 2019 12:15 PM  

There is very much an us verses them component about this whole thing.

What's worst is how it feels like a set up for "look at what these crazy Christians believe" by trying to tie a mesopotamian earth model to the bible which describes the earth using metaphorical language.

Blogger ar10308 October 24, 2019 12:18 PM  

"Exactly. Most phones don't have satellite transmission capability. GPS is a catchword. I've used the actual military system linked up to satellites, but most people use something totally different by the same name."

Civilian devices that can access the Satelite Network are much more expensive than what would come on a phone. They are available since various outdoors people can get access to them.

The system that phones use still uses the general GPS numbering and coordinate system, just propagated by the phone towers rather than satellites.

Blogger VD October 24, 2019 12:20 PM  

Jesus... The earth is not flat.

What part of "fraud is being committed concerning X" leads you to immediately conclude that this means "Therefore Y"?

I don't believe the Earth is flat. But I don't believe the mainstream narrative concerning the nature of the Earth either, because it contains too many lies.

Binary thinking is usually a serious mistake.

Blogger Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi October 24, 2019 12:20 PM  

While I do enjoy Owen's rants and willingness to think outside the box, every surveyor knows the earth is a globe.

If you have ever driven on a north south running rurual road only to find that it jogs over east to west every few cross roads? Those are called correction lines, which as the name implies are corrections for square land plots on on a spherical map.

Ah but what about if it were a disc wouldn't the same thing happen? They would happen and they would keep on happening all the way to the south pole. However, if that were true any surveyor south of the equator would have discovered this by now. However, south of the equator the instead of East-West distances between the meridians get smaller the further south one goes.

Owen always talks about how truth is in engineering and not science. Well this is engineering. Engineers know the earth is a globe. I've never seen a surveyor be a flat earther.

Blogger VD October 24, 2019 12:22 PM  

What's worst is how it feels like a set up.

Don't cuck. Cucks always fear that any departure from the mainstream is a trap that will lead to someone, somewhere, being able to call them names.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 24, 2019 12:22 PM  

Best don't trust instinct at all when encountering a long-held lie. Move like you're in the middle of a bunch of traps, slowly and carefully. Jumping to conclusions will just land you in another lie, and often a worse one.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 24, 2019 12:23 PM  

"Binary thinking is usually a serious mistake."

Exactly!

Blogger carnaby October 24, 2019 12:26 PM  

Exactly. Most phones don't have satellite transmission capability.
Oh lord. GPS on a phone requires zero satellite transmission capability. GPS on a phone relies on signals received by the phone, not sent by the phone.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 24, 2019 12:27 PM  

"GPS on a phone requires zero satellite transmission capability. GPS on a phone relies on signals received by the phone, not sent by the phone."

Most people are under the illusion that all GPS is satellite. If you weren't... that's... nice?

Blogger carnaby October 24, 2019 12:29 PM  

The system that phones use still uses the general GPS numbering and coordinate system, just propagated by the phone towers rather than satellites.

Maybe 15 years ago. Phones have had actual GPS capability for quite some time, IIRC around iPhone 3. iPhone 1 had the cell tower version.

Blogger S1AL October 24, 2019 12:29 PM  

Weather balloons. The Earth is flat, because weather balloons.

Well... alright then.

Blogger Toris October 24, 2019 12:30 PM  

Big Bear, you could have a field day with 'Democrats' in Ukraine: Al Gore, $, Ukraine (Biden and Soros, etc). Completely partisan former ambassador William Taylor rescuing peasants from Trump, media lapping it up with nary a mention who our diplomat's mother is. Nor any reminder (certain lineage aside) to the peasantry what Tipper Gore's maiden name is. 45th President doesn't know enough about 45th VP?

(Btw, you may be interested in Taylor's father - NASA/Apollo)

Blogger sammibandit October 24, 2019 12:37 PM  

I wouldn't say all because people were killed for the body trade. I know of one collection that is made entirely of bones from people from SE Asia representing the largest collection of people from one area at one point in time. Circa late 1800s. There's no marks on these bones to indicate method of murder, which is in my mind quite chilling. But institutionally we aren't supposed to talk about that. Funny, eh?

Blogger Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi October 24, 2019 12:38 PM  

Anybody taking an east west flight with a return flight can prove a spinning globe.

Buy yourself a high accuracy digital scale and a calibrating weight. Less than $50 on Amazon. Fly between 2 cities (hopefully at near same elevation and parallel lines to eliminate other variables.

Put the scale on your pull out tray and record the weights displayed on the scale. Flying one direction will result in higher weights than flying in the other direction because on way you will spin faster than the earth. In the other direction you will spin slower than the earth.

If you get the same number each way, you have shown the earth is not spinning.

Blogger Johnny October 24, 2019 12:38 PM  

>>Snipers shooting large caliber rifles at extreme long range have to account for earth curvature.

Silly idea actually. Snipers use line of sight.

When a spotter is used with long range artillery, earth curvature can be part of it because it is maps and grid, not line of sight.

Blogger Lovekraft October 24, 2019 12:39 PM  

The point of the flat earth meme is to criticize or point out the inability nowadays to engage in real inquiry

Blogger 7916 October 24, 2019 12:43 PM  

Too much knowledge blocks wisdom.

There's too many contradictions in the Bible to try to unify it, and attempts to do so actually cause loss of faith as the cognitive dissonance required to reconcile all the contradictions becomes too great. It becomes a quest for knowledge and proofs, which kills faith and wisdom.

The nature of faith in God and pursuit of wisdom are based on the realization that you don't have knowledge or technology to understand everything. You don't have accurate history or records, only the subjective accounts or snapshots in time. The best part though is that you don't need that knowledge to be Christian and worship Jesus Christ and God. It's very hard when you're intelligent to come to that understanding.

I don't know the shape of the earth, nor have I been to space, nor do I have direct evidence of creation and evolution. The best part is that I don't really want to seek that knowledge out, because it has no bearing on how I raise my family or how I worship the Lord. You might scoff at my intentional ignorance but look at the chaos and evil that comes from incomplete, inaccurate, or downright fake knowledge.

The food pyramid committee and the "fats r bad" guys from the sixties should burn in the depths of hell for the destruction their fake knowledge wrought, if anyone wants a tangible example.

That old saw about a little bit of knowledge being a dangerous thing is absolutely true, and Owen is right in that it's in service to Satan.





Blogger sammibandit October 24, 2019 12:49 PM  

Snipers shooting large caliber rifles at extreme long range have to account for earth curvature. This would not be necessary on a flat earth.

This confuses me. I'm an archer not a gun shooter but allow me to explain my confusion. When I shoot the arrow I have to account for the parabolas that the arrow travels in. It has a horizontal curve and a vertical curve. So if I want to hit a target dead centre I have to aim a bit higher and bit to the left, making adjustments for how far the target is and if it is moving. FWIW I don't use a sight on my bow and I only do lane shooting or with hunting simulators. I imagine it's a similar equation in the mind's eye for other projectiles. This to me isn't the same as accounting for the curve of the ground below me. Maybe I'm missing something.

Blogger carnaby October 24, 2019 12:49 PM  

Buy yourself a high accuracy digital scale and a calibrating weight. Less than $50 on Amazon. Fly between 2 cities (hopefully at near same elevation and parallel lines to eliminate other variables.

Put the scale on your pull out tray and record the weights displayed on the scale. Flying one direction will result in higher weights than flying in the other direction because on way you will spin faster than the earth. In the other direction you will spin slower than the earth.

If you get the same number each way, you have shown the earth is not spinning.


This is dumb. Centripetal force due to earth spinning is tiny. You need a scale that can measure on the order of 10^-5 newtons reliably. That's in the noise so... no.

Blogger Out of Nod October 24, 2019 12:49 PM  

Not cucking sir but I'll stop commenting on the topic.

Blogger andrisf October 24, 2019 12:53 PM  

I always try to keep open mind, i can go very far in this, i can theoretically accept that earth is flat(i emphasize theoretically), i can accept that nobody ever went to the moon(more likely), but i KNOW that rockets are real, i have seen them work.
I have seen for example BM 21 at work and BM 30 at work, i have seen Russian space rockets with my own eyes, to say that rockets are not real is just LIES.
If people with budget of few thousands, with necessary knowledge, can make a rocket that can almost go to space, why would these huge rockets not be able to go to space?
I respect Owen, he is good stand up comedian, he is doing very well with his family, but he has very strong Dunning–Kruger effect and since he has seen so much lies, he thinks that everything is a lie now.
Rockets are real and have capacity to go out of gravity field of earth,that is just a simple fact.

Blogger Doktor Jeep October 24, 2019 12:58 PM  

I get a sense of liberation from this.
If our world is a realm of sorts that opens ideas.
It also feels a lot better than this alone in a cold void routine.

Blogger carnaby October 24, 2019 12:59 PM  

And now that I think about it... the fact that the earth is rotating has nothing to do with anything when you are on an airplane. So the scale experiment while flying is just plain old dumb on every possible level. But it's also wonderful, thank you for that.

Blogger Azimus October 24, 2019 1:00 PM  

As for the earth not being spherical, I can't say I agree with Big Bear, but the evidence presented is certainly interesting and gets the gears of the mind going.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd October 24, 2019 1:00 PM  

ar10308 wrote:The system that phones use still uses the general GPS numbering and coordinate system, just propagated by the phone towers rather than satellites.

Nonsense. On the North Slope, fifty miles from cell service and further from a tower, my phone could see satellites and give me an accurate location.

Azure Amaranthine wrote:I've been on the ocean and watched ships come up over the horizon, all times of day and night, all temperatures and weather conditions.

I, too have seen the curvature of the earth. I have also seen lights that were more than 50 miles away, when a temperature inversion caused atmospheric lensing which compensated for the curvature. It was like being a bowl.

Blogger R Webfoot October 24, 2019 1:00 PM  

@52
The centrifugal force due to the Earth spinning is 0.3% of the force of gravity, at the equator. So... with a precise enough scale... with both measurements at the same altitude... maybe?

Blogger patrick October 24, 2019 1:02 PM  

Saying that this isn't a photo of the earth is like saying that the album of your wedding pictures isn't of your wedding because it doesn't have every photo that the photographer took. No one wants to see your brothers vomiting on the open bar or your fat spinster aunt nip-slip. The same is true of astrophotography. The public doesn't want to see every satellite image that made up this picture.

Sure, it may have been coopted for dumb globalist propaganda, but the image is not inherently a lie. It is a composite. If you want an accurate picture of what the Earth really looks like, you can trawl through thousands of uninteresting satellite photos yourself, if you wish.

Blogger JimR October 24, 2019 1:05 PM  

the ignorance re: GPS and phones in the comments is horrendous.

Yes, you phone can have GPS receivers. Most do, possibly some cheaper ones don't.

Want to check?
Head out to where you have zero cell service, and see if location still works. I've done this 100 miles off the pacific coast where there was no tower even in LOS.

(FML, stupid people)

Blogger Teleros October 24, 2019 1:05 PM  

I disagree with BB on almost all the science stuff he criticises, but as he says, the important thing is not to spiral over him saying we never went to the moon or w/e it is this time. I investigate, I think about it, but most importantly I keep enjoying his streams because he's funny, uplifting, and very clearly crushing. So what if he's wrong about Antarcyica or something- who cares about that when his message about how to live etc is so obviously true? Other people can go purity spiral over such stuff.

Blogger Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi October 24, 2019 1:08 PM  

This is dumb. Centripetal force due to earth spinning is tiny. You need a scale that can measure on the order of 10^-5 newtons reliably. That's in the noise so... no.

Eotvos effect

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73Ec-d2RbsI

You could also prove it by mailing the same scale and weight to different people at different parallels...

Blogger JimR October 24, 2019 1:09 PM  

and it's not curvature that long range shooters (arty or the 0.01% of folks who shoot rifles at truly ridiculous distances) but spin.

Blogger boogeyman October 24, 2019 1:09 PM  

To me, the interesting question is when SpaceX finishes their new rocket and start taking passengers into orbit, the moon, and beyond, will anyone be able to convince a flat Earther to take a ride? Either way "normal" people will finally have a chance at taking their own photo of the entire planet.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 24, 2019 1:10 PM  

"the fact that the earth is rotating has nothing to do with anything when you are on an airplane"

Comparing upward inertia when circling faster vs slower. An airplane is just comparatively the fastest mode of travel so you'd expect to see the most difference that way.

That being said, the motion and gravity of the moon is going to jack up the scale measurements a whole lot more than the motion of the plane in one direction or the other.

Blogger artensoll October 24, 2019 1:12 PM  

"I get a sense of liberation from this.
If our world is a realm of sorts that opens ideas.
It also feels a lot better than this alone in a cold void routine."

I was blessed with this liberation at the exact moment of my conversion to Christianity. Suddenly I didn't care how old the Earth is or whether it was created in an instant or over billions of years. I find I don't care if it's a spinning globe or a disk or an infinite plane: it's all irrelevant to me now, yet all so interesting. It's all above my pay grade now that I'm not the manager of the universe.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 24, 2019 1:18 PM  

"It was like being a bowl."

Lensing does happen, but the consistency of when/what/how much doesn't fit a flat Earth model. Fata Morgana is one notorious example of that sort of thing.

Blogger David Craig October 24, 2019 1:19 PM  

The point isn't that the earth is flat, the point is that you've been demonstrably lied to. If one can't admit that possibility, how can one even begin to look at the facts with emotional and intellectual objectivity? Glad to see some open minds on this here. Good stuff

Blogger carnaby October 24, 2019 1:21 PM  

Comparing upward inertia...

This word does not mean what you think it means.

and it's not curvature that long range shooters (arty or the 0.01% of folks who shoot rifles at truly ridiculous distances) but spin.

100%

The centrifugal force due to the Earth spinning is 0.3% of the force of gravity

I think you mean centripetal. Centrifugal force isn't a force, strangely enough. But like I said, once in an airplane, this is irrelevant.

Blogger carnaby October 24, 2019 1:25 PM  

Thinking a littler more, actually, earth rotation is relevant to the centripetal force acting on an airplane. Can you explain why the centripetal force in an airplane is influenced by earth rotation, small as it is at 0.3% of the force due to gravity?

Blogger R Webfoot October 24, 2019 1:26 PM  

@70
"I think you mean centripetal. Centrifugal force isn't a force, strangely enough."

I am a physicist. What I said was correct. There is no such thing as "centripetal force due to earth spinning."

The plane would be relevant; if the Earth were not spinning, there would be no difference whether you are moving 500 mph east or west; since the Earth is spinning, there should be a slight difference whether the 500 mph is added to or subtracted from the usual 1000 mph rotation. But very small.

Blogger The Lab Manager October 24, 2019 1:27 PM  

I've watched the creationist videos regarding the fossil record taken from the vast library of cores from oil exploration. They do make some good points and it is possible coal, oil, and other materials changes into its form much faster than what is told to us by science. Lots of water has been found in the mantle of the earth in another form. Certainly some things that could still be missing from a complete explanation.

Blogger Uindo October 24, 2019 1:27 PM  

Japan says earth is grey from space

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2883739/The-GREY-planet-True-colour-image-reveals-Earth-really-looks-like-space-without-filters-editing.html

Blogger Ken Prescott October 24, 2019 1:30 PM  

Get thee haze gray and underway, and you'll see that the Earth is definitely a sphere.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 24, 2019 1:30 PM  

"This word does not mean what you think it means."

Centripetal force isn't a thing either. It's just what we call the difference between moment inertia and a curved path.

"Can you explain why the centripetal force in an airplane is influenced by earth rotation, small as it is at 0.3% of the force due to gravity?

Other way around. If you're rotating the same direction as the Earth, you increase that slightly. Vice-versa if rotating against the direction.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 24, 2019 1:33 PM  

Inertia means exactly what I think it means.

Blogger Kirk Parker October 24, 2019 1:36 PM  

I have traveled through parts of the US with absolutely no cell coverage, and GPS on my phone continues to work just fine there

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 24, 2019 1:38 PM  

If your phone's purely receiving then yes it can get the civilian version of receiver-only GPS with much less precision.

Blogger JimR October 24, 2019 1:42 PM  

"If your phone's purely receiving then yes it can get the civilian version of receiver-only GPS with much less precision."

There's no "civilian version" it's simply that the PTB can enable a jitter function that reduces accuracy if you don't have the key for the algorithm.

That's been off for decades, your "civilian" GPS receiver is as accurate as the mil ones, in some cases, using differential GPS, better.

Blogger Austin October 24, 2019 1:43 PM  

Moonlight is colder than just the dark of night, which suggests the Moon is not reflecting the Suns light. This piece of info, in combo with the 'vanishing quarter' vid from Ownes stream, and the fact that John Kerry was in Antarctica checking on penguin habitats the night of the 2016 Election...I'm as likely to believe that my newborn baby is flat and I just don't realize it than the standard Solar System model.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 24, 2019 1:46 PM  

"There's no "civilian version" it's simply that the PTB can enable a jitter function that reduces accuracy if you don't have the key for the algorithm."

Potato tomato. It's stepped down, it's still not completely off according to the Navy navs who taught me. They might be wrong.

Blogger Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi October 24, 2019 1:49 PM  

Austin wrote:Moonlight is colder than just the dark of night, which suggests the Moon is not reflecting the Suns light.

No it isn't. At night the earth radiates heat absorbed by the sun during the day. In the videos that show it warmer without moonlight than with moonlight, they have put up something that is trapping the heat radiating upwards.

Owen is very smart, but there are some things he doesn't know. He doesn't seem to test these things out himself.

Blogger Ska_Boss October 24, 2019 1:51 PM  

This isn't about the laws of physics, it's about the Law of God (Logos). Believing a lie no matter how small or seemingly insignificant is an open door for the enemy. That's what started this whole mess in the first place. Owen is right to instruct people to not only disengage from debating and arguing and splitting hairs over something that isn't unequivocally provable or disprovable but to also focus on the things that matter and are true in life such as family, homesteading, building community & culture, etc.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 24, 2019 1:52 PM  

"Moonlight is colder than just the dark of night"

All that means is that the background in the so called "dark of night" is more intense than the moon at whatever wavelengths were being measured just then. Interesting, but without more info doesn't necessarily mean much.

Blogger carnaby October 24, 2019 1:53 PM  

There is no such thing as "centripetal force due to earth spinning."

But there is. Centripetal force is the force that makes something follow a curved path. In the case of the earth, and the stuff sitting on the surface, this force is provided by gravity, which is quite a bit stronger than the minimum force needed. Moving relative to the earth surface merely changes the magnitude of the centripetal force required to hold the turn, as it were. This is why flying in an airplane makes a difference, because it changes the speed at which your position is rotating about the earth's center depending on which direction you are travelling. I was in error when I wrote earlier that it didn't matter. It matters because the atmosphere as well as all the other stuff connected to the surface of the earth is in solid body rotation such that everything on the earth moves with it.

Centrifugal force isn’t a force, it is a psuedo force that appears to be acting but isn't actually there.

Blogger P Glenrothes October 24, 2019 1:53 PM  

10 minutes of facts wrapped in 150 minutes of rhetorical rant.

Blogger carnaby October 24, 2019 1:56 PM  

Centripetal force isn't a thing either. It's just what we call the difference between moment inertia and a curved path.

It most certainly is a thing and it is not the difference between moment inertia (whatever that is) and a curved path. What you write makes no sense at all.

Blogger carnaby October 24, 2019 1:58 PM  

And btw, centrifugal force is a THING it's just not a force.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 24, 2019 1:58 PM  

"But there is. Centripetal force is the force that makes something follow a curved path."

A force referred to as centripetal is a force causing a body to maintain a curved path rather than follow its inertia in a straight line.

Blogger carnaby October 24, 2019 2:00 PM  

Potato tomato. It's stepped down, it's still not completely off according to the Navy navs who taught me. They might be wrong.

It is completely off. They are wrong.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 24, 2019 2:00 PM  

Man we're off in the weeds. I'm stopping.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 24, 2019 2:11 PM  

The intellectual level has been on the decline here for a long time. The China thread the other day was a serious 'tardfest. I didn't think it would go much lower.

Now this.

Et tu, Vox?

Blogger Nate October 24, 2019 2:12 PM  

Y'all know there are long term commenters... guys who've been here for over a decade commenting as part of the community.. that work on interplanetary missions. Right?

Blogger MDN October 24, 2019 2:13 PM  

@6

There is substantial evidence that that dinosaurs are actually much, much younger than 60 million years old or whatever the common belief is. The work of paleontologists like Dr. Mary Schwartzer have found on many occasions, the existence of blood cells, soft tissue, and collagen on dinosaur bones.

Most convincingly however, is that anytime dino bones have been submitted for Carbon-14 dating, they not only are able to detect the presence of C-14 (which isn't even theoretically possible if they are older than 100K years), but the amount of C-14 found suggests dates as young as 20-50K years.

If you go to the link below, you can see for yourself the actual PDF's of the many lab results confirming the age estimates of many different samples.

http://newgeology.us/presentation48.html

Blogger carnaby October 24, 2019 2:18 PM  

Inertia means exactly what I think it means.

What did you mean by "upward inertia" then? I think you are confusing inertia with momentum. Though maybe I am being pedantic because I always think of inertia as synonymous with mass but it may also be used to indicate momentum. Apparently.

Blogger VD October 24, 2019 2:18 PM  

Et tu, Vox?

It's charmingly cute that you think I see any significant difference between the level of previous commenters and the newer ones.

Do try to keep in mind that everyone is retarded from a sufficiently advanced perspective.

Blogger carnaby October 24, 2019 2:20 PM  

Do try to keep in mind that everyone is retarded from a sufficiently advanced perspective.

That's for sure. I'm retarded from my own perspective day to day or even minute to minute.

Blogger Nikolai Collushnikov October 24, 2019 2:25 PM  

Somewhat on topic. But I conclude that "flat earth" is a psy-op. Look at Google Trends, flat earth is flat for years then around October 2014 it explodes in popularity. Notice that most of the big flat earth blogs and flat earth YouTube channels appeared mostly within a three month period at the end of 2014. They also produced slick "professional" video from the beginning. Most YouTubers are amateurs and start out slow before they up their game. Flat Earth YouTubers, especially the big ones hit the ground running. This isn't organic.

Blogger carnaby October 24, 2019 2:26 PM  

OK watching Owen's bit some more. He's clearly brilliant but his math/physics ability sucks. The stuff he is saying about the curvature of the earth, about rocket stability, and everything else related to arguments about flat earth is retarded.

Blogger Damelon Brinn October 24, 2019 2:27 PM  

I don't really get what the fraud is supposed to be. Did they ever claim the 2002 model was a photograph taken from space

I don't know if they've literally claimed that, but I'd guess that if you did a poll, a strong majority of people would say we have lots of pictures of the Earth from space, and that they take them all the time.

Does it matter if people assume an old matted-together picture is a lot newer than it is and an original? Well, other than the simple fact that it's not true, it encourages people to think "orbit" is further out into space than it really is. They picture a satellite in orbit being way out there somewhere, like a yo-yo spinning around your head on the end of a string, when it's more like an ant jumping from one hair to the next.

Why does that matter? Well, because misunderstanding how low orbits really are lets people misunderstand just how huge a leap it is to go from there to the Moon. It's not just "Hey, we're out here anyway, let's go spin around the Moon over there." It's way, way, *way* farther.

I don't know if they did it on purpose for that reason. But in the broader sense, the more things you think you know that are false, the more false things you can be fooled into thinking you know.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 24, 2019 2:34 PM  

That's cute Vox My IQ is higher than yours.

Blogger Noah B. October 24, 2019 2:35 PM  

Cosmonauts reported seeing angels too, even though they must have known that reporting such a sighting wouldn't earn them any rewards from the Soviet state.

https://www.techeblog.com/mind-blowing-story-of-russian-cosmonauts-who-saw-angels-in-space/

Blogger David Ray Milton October 24, 2019 2:40 PM  

You can be suspicious of (or even not believe in) the narrative and also not run to try and fill the cosmological vacuum with something else. We will never likely know and that’s okay. Mystery es bueno. It creates wonder and humility.

Blogger James Lovebirch October 24, 2019 2:41 PM  

@26

Did you happen to try bringing the far off objects back into view with a telescope or binoculars? That's the actual FE contention.

Blogger Brian S October 24, 2019 2:46 PM  

Look up "Sniper 101 - Part 73" on YouTube for an in depth explanation of coriolis. I'm not trying to convince anyone, but I'm hung up on this point in particular when confronted with Flat Earth stuff.

Blogger James Lovebirch October 24, 2019 2:49 PM  

@81

Last I heard, this is only true while waxing, which makes it a lot more interesting.

Blogger dtungsten October 24, 2019 2:50 PM  

Notice that ALL of the hemisphere photography we think we've seen has turned out to be nonexistent.

I notice that just because some people weren't previously aware that one stitched together photo was stitched together, they somehow think that means that all photos of the the earth as a globe are nonexistent.

Blogger James Lovebirch October 24, 2019 2:56 PM  

@85

No, what we're talking about is objects in direct moonlight are colder, as if heat is being drawn out of them. For example, you can go to a street and measure the temperature of it in direct moonlight vs in the shade of a tree to see this effect.

Blogger Noah B. October 24, 2019 2:58 PM  

The larger takeaway is that much of what is commonly viewed as direct evidence is in fact heavily manipulated. This applies far beyond the Blue Marble.

Blogger Unknown October 24, 2019 3:02 PM  

My mind is gravy. How does flat earth theory explain the movement of the sun and moon throughout the year?

Blogger Newscaper312 October 24, 2019 3:06 PM  

Sigh. This stitching is not a secret. And "flat" in this context means closeups of the ground below the LEO satellite.
Is google StreetView of your neighborhood "fraudulent" because of the way multiple real photos are stitched together to?

More recent article https://qz.com/458826/behold-nasas-first-image-in-decades-of-the-whole-earth/
And even THAT article is ultimately incorrect: there have been plenty of single frame photos showing the Earth as a globe since Apollo -- just most until recently were from pretty far away and/or it is of a partly shadowed planet.
CLementine (lunar probe 1999), Galileo (Jupiter), OSIRIS-REx (solar observatroy IIRC) and a bunch of others have single frame photos showing a spherical Earth:
https://www.planetary.org/explore/space-topics/earth/pics-of-earth-by-planetary-spacecraft.html

Blogger Ominous Cowherd October 24, 2019 3:10 PM  

James Lovebirch wrote:For example, you can go to a street and measure the temperature of it in direct moonlight vs in the shade of a tree to see this effect.

What is the temperature of the sky to which the object in moonlight is radiating? What is the temperature of the tree to which the shaded object is radiating?

Blogger thalios October 24, 2019 3:12 PM  

This thread is interesting in ways that I wasn't expecting. Certain topics cause people, even in this site's above average commenting circles, to stop using the same skills they clearly and successfully use in other areas. The short cutting and binary thinking is really surprising. Don't get me wrong... I am certainly guilty of the same thing, but man does the space, moon, shape of the earth topic really bring this out.

I suffer from enough intelligence to sense something's wrong, but not enough to actually sus out why.

I feel your pain brother, but I keep trying. Angular resolution and the various demonstrations of it are doing my head in and what it means to my understanding of the globe vs flat earth.

Blogger EMP October 24, 2019 3:14 PM  

Aircrafts and cirrus clouds provide a convenient way of seeing for yourself that Earth's surface is curved.

You see the bottom of a high-altitude aircraft as it comes over the horizon, such that it appears to travel vertically relative to your far-away position. Same with cirrus clouds that reach over the horizon--they appear impossibly vertical.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 24, 2019 3:19 PM  

For example, you can go to a street and measure the temperature of it in direct moonlight vs in the shade of a tree to see this effect.
This is simple radiative heat loss, and has nothing whatever to do with the moon. The object casting shade is warmer than the open sky, and so the heat loss via radiation is slower.

Blogger JaimeInTexas October 24, 2019 3:19 PM  

If traveling by car, on a straight south to north vector, that crosses the equator, gyrosopes should detect a lateral force if there is rotation.

Blogger maniacprovost October 24, 2019 3:21 PM  

Centrifugal force isn't a force

That's what they want you to think.

If a centrifuge is spinning, the test tube exerts a centripetal force on its contents.

What do you call the force that the contents exert on the test tube?

Blogger God Emperor Memes October 24, 2019 3:26 PM  

"Dragons" ARE dinosaurs. Just a different word for the same thing.

Blogger P Glenrothes October 24, 2019 3:28 PM  

Whenever Owen says, "Just listen to this" brace yourself for interruptions and tangential rants every 3 seconds.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd October 24, 2019 3:29 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:This is simple radiative heat loss, and has nothing whatever to do with the moon.

Yes. This stuff is so simple, and so many have so much trouble seeing it.

Blogger JaimeInTexas October 24, 2019 3:32 PM  

I would like to see the vid referenced by Owen without the interruptions. Was there a reference? I went to globebusters channal and could not find it.

Blogger Unknown October 24, 2019 3:33 PM  

These Wikipedia links underneath Youtube videos are amusing. Good thing I have the Infogalactic Transporter!

Blogger R Webfoot October 24, 2019 3:34 PM  

The directness of the moonlight has nothing to do with it. If you measure right next to a tree, the tree will be catching some of the heat and radiating it right back to the ground.

Blogger R Webfoot October 24, 2019 3:37 PM  

@121 "Yes. This stuff is so simple, and so many have so much trouble seeing it."

That's probably because they HAVEN'T seen it. I can literally visualize a diagram and the equations involved while talking about it, because I am educated in the subject. Unfortunately, such images are not transmitted telepathically.

Blogger Wazdakka October 24, 2019 3:45 PM  

Felt like that for a while, but this is like being a child again. It's new and exciting.
No reason for dispair.

Blogger thalios October 24, 2019 3:49 PM  

JaimeInTexas wrote:I would like to see the vid referenced by Owen without the interruptions. Was there a reference? I went to globebusters channal and could not find it.

Is this what you're looking for?

Blogger carnaby October 24, 2019 3:50 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Newscaper312 October 24, 2019 3:51 PM  

@114 and binary thinking wrt astronomy...
Sorta like the Jews: either reflexive genuflecting w any criticism "antisemitism", or veering into they control *everything*, sometimes including the weather.

I do find it interesting/puzzling in a meta sense what Vox does w items like this: 1) he points out something where something people assumed to be so wasn't the case, I assume to encourage a healthy skepticism, 2) he stands back pretty quiet as the crowd veers pretty far off into the weeds, but 3) when questioned a bit more, you see his point is much more limited**, and yet for reasons not quite clear to me 4) he doesn't rein in the further afield, kookier stuff in the comments in even though it would appear to hurt the brand/cause with people otherwise potentially receptive.

**Note above, he says he is NOT a flat earther. I also noticed in his thoughtful claims about the numbers not adding up re mutation rates for for macroevolution purely driven by neo-Darwist natural selection, he nowhere that I saw claimed to be a Young Earth creationist, nor for that matter explicitly denied common descent. Rather made the more narrow point that the purely mechanistic "randomly fiddle, filter against environment, rinse and repeat" may be sufficient for local optimization, fine tuning, but is not adequately creative. Yet again and again people take it and run with it for all they're worth, throwing baby out with the bath water.

Last couple random thoughts of my own:
Just because Newton's models could not explain a few edge cases like the deviations in the transit of Mercury, and Einstein's General Relativity was able to more accurately predict them, did not mean that Newton was grossly wrong, nor that the Ptolemaic model was just as good.
Or more simply: Just because I can't tell you from personal first-hand knowledge or experience what the far side of the moon is made of, does not mean it being made of green cheese or rocks are just as likely .

Blogger carnaby October 24, 2019 3:54 PM  

If a centrifuge is spinning, the test tube exerts a centripetal force on its contents.

What do you call the force that the contents exert on the test tube?


This should help: https://infogalactic.com/info/Centrifugal_force

Blogger Player 2 October 24, 2019 3:54 PM  

Lot of knee-jerk reactions on here. I know that previous to today I had precisely one model of the Earth I thought viable. Tonight, I have two. I figure something as complicated and important to understand as the shape of the only place I have ever lived will require at least a few weeks of my own research. Apparently others don't feel that way. Okay guys. You're right. It can't be flat. A scientist and a civil servant told me and the TV person told me something sciencey. No need to wait a few days of looking into it or anything.

Blogger The Cooler October 24, 2019 3:55 PM  

@51 Maybe I'm missing something.

You are not. Snipers take into account -- when necessary to do so -- the Eötvös and Coriolis effects, which regard the spin of the earth, not the curvature.

but let's just kill the shit out of this since it's so retarded:

The Horizon at flat ground level is ~3 miles away. In other words, one would not be able to see someone ~3.1 miles away due to the curvature if the earth. 3 miles is out-of-range of the longest-ranged sniper rifle unless one is trying to kill an apartment complex. The largest man-portable sniper caliber is the 0.5, which has a maximum effective range of ~1.3 miles.

Sometimes, you just gotta watch some of these guys make square wheels. After all, a square wheel is possible.

Blogger Félicie October 24, 2019 3:57 PM  

@11 "Facing so many lies, i sometimes just want off this ride."

There's no ride: the Earth is stationary.

Blogger Unknown October 24, 2019 4:05 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Félicie October 24, 2019 4:05 PM  

carnaby wrote:The image was manipulated to show clouds that make sense I assume because the composite images used to create the final image were taken at different times and if used unchanged would yield an unpleasant and not particularly useful result.

I love Owen, but his claim that the earth is not a ball is very dumb.


It can't be ball with the circumference of 25,000 miles, that much is certain, because of how far you're able to see. Far far beyond the supposed drop-off calculated for this size.

Blogger Thomas W. October 24, 2019 4:06 PM  

While I don't know for sure either way, I think that the earth is much bigger than is let on, and that there are lands beyond antarctica.

Blogger artensoll October 24, 2019 4:11 PM  

@122 JaimeInTexas

It's "Our Flat Earth Journey by Taboo Conspiracy ii
https://youtu.be/BplqzcTr1eI

Blogger VD October 24, 2019 4:12 PM  

That's cute Vox My IQ is higher than yours.

Calibre is only part of the equation. Is it really so hard for you to understand that there is a connection between our growing number of successes and the dynamic nature of the blog readership?

No amount of IQ helps if the only thing you contemplate is your own navel.

Blogger sammibandit October 24, 2019 4:14 PM  

Thanks. Much appreciated.

Blogger Hieroglyph October 24, 2019 4:19 PM  

Personally I have the VP down as the guy who shows consumate loyalty at all times, until the very end, when he stabs his friend in the back. Something something Brutus.

I have read other things about VP Pence too. I don't know if they are true.

Blogger VD October 24, 2019 4:26 PM  

he doesn't rein in the further afield, kookier stuff in the comments in even though it would appear to hurt the brand/cause with people otherwise potentially receptive.

How many times do I have to tell people that I don't give a damn about "the brand"? I am equally disinterested in the approval of binary thinkers.

I like it when people think outside the box or just ignore it entirely. Sometimes they inspire an interesting line of thought. I have zero interest what anyone who simply spouts the mainstream narrative says because I already know it.

Blogger carnaby October 24, 2019 4:27 PM  

It can't be ball with the circumference of 25,000 miles, that much is certain, because of how far you're able to see. Far far beyond the supposed drop-off calculated for this size.

Oh brother. Learn some simple math and you'll be able to figure out exactly how far you can see assuming the earth is perfectly smooth of course, which it is not. In fact, you only need the Pythagorean theorem to compute the line of sight distance to the farthest visible point on the surface a circle from a vantage point somewhere else at some height above the surface.

Blogger carnaby October 24, 2019 4:31 PM  

For example... assuming a circle of radius 6.371 million meters (25k miles), a 2 meter (6 foot) tall person can see a point on the surface 5000 meters (3 miles) away. Increase the height to 20 meters and you can see 16,000 meters (10 miles) away. Here's the equation:

sightDistance = sqrt(height^2 + 2 * earthRadius * height) where height is the height of the observer above the surface and ^2 means quantity squared.

You get extra credit if you draw the simple diagram.

Blogger One Deplorable DT October 24, 2019 4:36 PM  

The composite globe images post Apollo 17 are about as nefarious as an iPhone panorama. NASA has never hidden the fact that LEO is too close to whip out a camera with a normal lens and capture the entire glob. Probably because any photographer could look at the orbital distances and know that intuitively. Nor have they hidden the fact that globe images from LEO are composites. It's hardly a conspiracy if they publish "how we made X" the day they publish X.

As for match people’s expectations of how Earth looks from space, those expectations were set by the photographs made at a distance where you could whip out a camera with a normal lens and get the entire planet. Color and brightness would be all over the place in a composite of LEO satellite images, not to mention the distortions inherent in mapping all those tiny snapshots to a sphere. All of that has to be processed out to produce a usable photo. If all you had were the tiny shots the final color, contrast, brightness, and spherical mapping would be open to some interpretation. If you have a reference photo that the public is familiar with, you at least start with that.

The satellite balloon technology also explains how the US can keep putting up satellites despite not having any rockets capable of sending up astronauts.

We have plenty of rockets capable of putting astronauts into LEO. You could probably dust off one of our old ICMB's and make it work. What we don't have are rockets with a level of risk that is acceptable to NASA. Losing an insured satellite is one thing. Losing a human astronaut is quite another.

@65 - To me, the interesting question is when SpaceX finishes their new rocket and start taking passengers into orbit, the moon, and beyond, will anyone be able to convince a flat Earther to take a ride? Either way "normal" people will finally have a chance at taking their own photo of the entire planet.

Tourist shots of an Apollo landing site would probably convince a lot of moon landing conspiracy people. But I'm not sure taking a flat Earther on free SpaceX ride would accomplish anything. There are a number of observations and experiments, practically accessible to the average person, which prove Earth is round. If they can't be bothered to perform even one of those....

Blogger Noah B. October 24, 2019 4:46 PM  

You'd have to be insane to fly in a Space Tesla. I'd take my chances with one of Wiley Coyote's ACME rockets first.

Blogger Dan in Georgia October 24, 2019 4:51 PM  

He also wrote “sex” in the clouds. They just have to rub it in that they’re lying and we can’t do anything about it.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd October 24, 2019 4:55 PM  

R Webfoot wrote:I can literally visualize a diagram and the equations involved while talking about it, because I am educated in the subject.

I was younger than 10 when I was told why we got frost on clear nights, but not on cloudy nights. Thermodynamics is cool, but you don't need to be educated to understand this stuff.

Blogger Félicie October 24, 2019 4:59 PM  

carnaby wrote:For example... assuming a circle of radius 6.371 million meters (25k miles), a 2 meter (6 foot) tall person can see a point on the surface 5000 meters (3 miles) away. Increase the height to 20 meters and you can see 16,000 meters (10 miles) away. Here's the equation:

sightDistance = sqrt(height^2 + 2 * earthRadius * height) where height is the height of the observer above the surface and ^2 means quantity squared.

You get extra credit if you draw the simple diagram.


I just go here:
https://dizzib.github.io/earth/curve-calc/?d0=50&h0=10&unit=imp

I tall person standing on a shore with a small elevation (the line of sight is 10 feet off the ground) is not supposed to see even a very tall object, the bottom of which would be 1400 feet below the surface, hidden by the curve. Yes this is something that happens very often. People looking through a telescope or taking photos with a powerful camera (Nikon P1000 is recommended) habitually see what they are not supposed to see. There is a LOT of videos on youtube.

Blogger Newscaper312 October 24, 2019 5:03 PM  

@141 VD
Point taken, but FWIW I meant that more along lines of support for what you think important, such as non-globohomo alternative cultural institutions and infrastructure, nationalism, preserving Western civ, etc and not personal ego/gain.

re this specifically "I like it when people think outside the box or just ignore it entirely. Sometimes they inspire an interesting line of thought."...
There was a "free energy" guy about an hour away from me who got some play in the 80s and early 90s who had some oddball electric motor that seemed to have more output than input, and had quite a few engineering types around here intrigued and scratching their heads, unable to find the flaw or fraud. But the more conventional 'authorities' at university etc would never take a serious look at it. I'm 99.999+% positive he was wrong about net positive energy or effciency > 100% , but I was always frustrated they wouldn't investigate, when it IS possible he had stumbled across a more efficient motor or generator design.

Blogger Newscaper312 October 24, 2019 5:05 PM  

@145
Actually I might trust a man-rated Falcon more than a self-driving Tesla in Atlanta downtown I-85 rush hour traffic.
At least in the former I'd be having more fun before it went south.

Blogger Newscaper312 October 24, 2019 5:10 PM  

@148 "atmospheric refraction" can sometimes allows seeing things just below the horizon -- and it also relates to curvatures as it is caused by the changing refractive index of the different density and temperature atmosphere layers.

https://infogalactic.com/info/Atmospheric_refraction

Blogger Paul M October 24, 2019 5:12 PM  

Having established that the earth is flat, can we also agree that the sky is some sort of blue tent pitched over the earth; that God lives on top of it; that from that vantage point he can look down and see everything that goes on, hence his omniscience; that a sufficiently tall tower would reach or pierce it; and that it is equipped with windows or floodgates of some kind from which God occasionally releases water to fall as rain?

Blogger Félicie October 24, 2019 5:12 PM  

It has become very difficult to look for flat earth videos because youtube is censoring them heavily. this, in itself, is very strange. What are the deluded ones going to do, try to jump off the flat earth.

But here's one video I found (there were literally many dozens before)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MU78TSIYgUQ

Blogger FUBARwest October 24, 2019 5:15 PM  

Nobody has addressed how people are able to see farther than they should be able to due to the curve of the planet with the Nikon P900 that's mentioned in the video.

No idea either way, but hand waving away a theory without addressing things actually mentioned in said video isn't convincing.

Blogger Player 2 October 24, 2019 5:29 PM  

@151 "can sometimes allow." I got the feeling from that video that it needs to be more like "can frequently allow" or even "can always allow." This is why I now want to start conducing these experiments myself. I want to know how reliable this is. If it happens most all the time (seeing things I shouldn't see) and the best explanation is a thing that should only happen infrequently, I know what I'd start to question.

Anyone know if the flat Earth researchers find the effects every time they look? The video implies they do.

Blogger Newscaper312 October 24, 2019 5:30 PM  

@154 once more
https://infogalactic.com/info/Atmospheric_refraction

Blogger Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi October 24, 2019 5:31 PM  

Either the earth is curved or the cargo ship in the background is sinking.

P900 video evidence

Blogger Ominous Cowherd October 24, 2019 5:34 PM  

Newscaper312 wrote:I'm 99.999+% positive he was wrong about net positive energy or effciency > 100% , but I was always frustrated they wouldn't investigate, when it IS possible he had stumbled across a more efficient motor or generator design.

There is nothing more fundamental to our understanding of physics than our understanding of thermodynamics. ``Einstein was wrong'' is going to be easy to believe. ``Thermo is wrong'' is never going to fly.

If you tell me you have an FTL drive and an anti-gravity machine, I might believe you, and you might get a hearing at the local university engineering department. If you claim ``efficiency greater than 100%,'' you're going to get laughed off campus. That is a surefire indicator of bogosity and crackpottery.

Blogger Noah B. October 24, 2019 5:37 PM  

Either the earth is curved or the cargo ship in the background is sinking.

The government forced Nikon to make the lenses that way. You have no idea how deep this rabbit hole goes!

Blogger xevious2030 October 24, 2019 5:51 PM  

Forgot the name of the dude. For quite some time, people knew by hard science that skull shape was not hereditary. Due to a single individual that conducted a study with math errors. For decades this went on, until someone did the math, found the error, and it was understood that skull shapes are indeed hereditary. From a single accident. Something entirely observable by even a moron. Until then, only stupid people thought skull shape was hereditary, because a whole lot of very smart people knew better. Very high IQ people would ask my mom what she thought about certain topics, not to be assholes, but because she, in her much lower IQ bracket, recognized things the fucking high IQ morons missed for being too smart. Even so, they were at least smart enough to ask someone not in their box. The moral of the story is not the shape of the Earth.

Blogger Newscaper312 October 24, 2019 5:54 PM  

@155 "Sometimes allow" is poor choice of words on my part. More correct would be just be "allows, although varying conditions may make it more or less pronounced. The IG article has some interesting tidbits I did not know about it being a standard thing that sailors doing celestial navigation with a sextant are taught to avoid shooting stars too close to the horizon for this reason of distorted elevation.

Blogger Jim October 24, 2019 5:54 PM  

All of astronomy is composited, false-color photos. The truth is, all cameras lie. The better ones adjust their outputs to our expectations. In astronomy, this gets cranked up past 11 because your eyes can't see radar images.

Blogger map October 24, 2019 6:07 PM  

VD,

I am an hour into the show where Owen is talking about the movement of the Earth and the sun. That is, where the planets move on a flat plane orbiting the sun and the sun hurtles around the galaxy, yet the north star is somehow cixed in the same place despite all of this.

It's very interesting, iconoclastic thinking that people should appreciate.

The best way to process any kind of iconoclastic information is to form each piece of info as a question. For example:

Is it true that a curvature has a drop of 8 inches per meter squared?

Then do research on that.

Can you actually see Chicago across from Lake Michigan at a distance that the curve should make impossible?

How do you measure the velocity of the earth's rotation experimentally?

How do you measure the circumference of the earth?

Etc.

Blogger Long Live The West October 24, 2019 6:13 PM  

"All of astronomy is composited, false-color photos. The truth is, all cameras lie. The better ones adjust their outputs to our expectations. In astronomy, this gets cranked up past 11 because your eyes can't see radar images."

Gosh damn... They lie by making up data until inevitably reaching the truth? I see where Nate and Snidely are coming from on this thread...

'To see through everything is to see nothing at all.' - C.S Lewis

Blogger map October 24, 2019 6:13 PM  

Sorry...

8 inches per mile squared

Blogger Frog October 24, 2019 6:13 PM  

"17. Nate
October 24, 2019 11:55 AM
Jesus... The earth is not flat."

Unfortunately this is the typical argument for the globe earth model.

Blogger James Lovebirch October 24, 2019 6:16 PM  

@113

Let me make sure I understand what you two believe. You believe an oak tree ~30ft from the spot on the street that's measured is insulating asphalt at that distance--but only precisely where the tree is causing shade from moonlight?

Blogger FUBARwest October 24, 2019 6:18 PM  

"@154 once more
https://infogalactic.com/info/Atmospheric_refraction"

I might be too short for this ride but from the IG page: "Atmospheric refraction near the ground produces mirages and can make distant objects appear to shimmer or ripple, elevated or lowered, stretched or shortened with no mirage involved."

How does something produce a mirage to explain those things and then not need a mirage to show those things?

Again, no dog in this race seeing as the Earth is a tesseract after all. My point is I see people ignoring the point of the post, then dismissing the ideas and ignoring the information in the video they did not watch. The video Owen's using has recorded footage that claims to see past the line of sight you should be able to see due to the curve and actively zooms while doing so. It would be better to address the points made in the video and the rebuttals he had to the mainstream narrative than simply regurgitate the mainstream narrative.

Better yet, focus on the point of the post and not get muddled in the details.

Blogger map October 24, 2019 6:35 PM  

Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi wrote:Either the earth is curved or the cargo ship in the background is sinking.

P900 video evidence


That does not look like evidence. That looks like photography taken in a harbor.

Blogger map October 24, 2019 6:38 PM  

map wrote:Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi wrote:Either the earth is curved or the cargo ship in the background is sinking.

P900 video evidence


That does not look like evidence. That looks like photography taken in a harbor.


Plus, the distance is too short to be a horizon. Is too short to have that curve.

Blogger Doktor Jeep October 24, 2019 6:50 PM  

Anybody notice how in Devilmouse's last pre-converged gasp of light, otherwise known as Pirates of the Caribbean, the good guys conceived a flat Earth and even went to the end of the world ? And the bad guy was a cold blooded business first EITC leader who, as was implied, was also a eunuch. He boasted of the maps of the world being completed and had globes in his office and on his ship. He was practically a stand in for globohomo as far as the plot was concerned. Though my interest in POTC was the portrayal of SSH generally.

Blogger Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi October 24, 2019 6:55 PM  

map wrote:Can you actually see Chicago across from Lake Michigan at a distance that the curve should make impossible?



As requested

Blogger Player 2 October 24, 2019 7:07 PM  

Someone should write a SF story about time travel where someone travels 3000 years into the future and it is now an established fact that the world is flat and people are exploring inside the firmament instead.

Blogger Ryu238 October 24, 2019 7:27 PM  

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Blogger Frog October 24, 2019 7:31 PM  

@174 As in it doesn't exist.

Blogger map October 24, 2019 7:33 PM  

I have to admit...these are fascinating experiments. Again, if the calculation for the curvature drop at distance is correct, they why do have visible line of site from shoreline to shoreline?

If an experiment is wrong, then you have to show how the experiment is wrong.

Blogger Ryu238 October 24, 2019 7:35 PM  

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Blogger Ryu238 October 24, 2019 7:41 PM  

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Blogger map October 24, 2019 7:46 PM  

Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi wrote:map wrote:Can you actually see Chicago across from Lake Michigan at a distance that the curve should make impossible?



As requested


That is not what the video is addressing. A weathermen supposedly showed that an image of Chicago was actually a mirage because of the curvature of the earth. You were not seeing Chicago across Lake Michigan. You were seeing a refracted image.

The guy then uses various mirror tests and his camera to show that that is, in fact, Chicago that you are seeing. There is no refracted image...no mirage.

I don't know what the video you are showing is attempting to debunk.

Blogger S1AL October 24, 2019 7:56 PM  

"How does something produce a mirage to explain those things and then not need a mirage to show those things?"

The word 'and' probably should have been 'or' for clarity. A mirage is one of possible product of refraction. Being able to see around curves is another, separate, property.

Blogger Dave Dave October 24, 2019 7:59 PM  

The flat-globe binary is extremely retarded. Anyone half intelligent can clearly see that the earth is a 4-dimensional glome. If you can't visualise what a 4-dimensional spheroid object looks like, you're far too stupid to speak as an authority on anything earth and science related.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 24, 2019 8:03 PM  

"What did you mean by "upward inertia" then? I think you are confusing inertia with momentum."

Inertia, the property of things in motion to remain in motion in the same vector. If the case of things on the surface of a rotating sphere, the difference between their inertia and that curved path they are taking is produced by some force that is being called centripetal because of its effect on those objects, though it is actually something like gravity or pressure.

I stopped because I realized we were talking very neatly past each other on multiple subjects and it was very stupid looking in retrospect and wastefully pointless.

"Yes. This stuff is so simple, and so many have so much trouble seeing it."

This. MPAI.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 24, 2019 8:05 PM  

"If you can't visualise what a 4-dimensional spheroid object looks like,"

That's less intelligence related and more related to whether you were trained to do so and practiced doing so while very young.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 24, 2019 8:15 PM  

I know why you're doing all this. I don't disagree, it needs to be done. That doesn't mean I can't lament what was lost.
Also, having accepted the task of moderating the comments, I have to read them.
But, no burden too great, eh?

Blogger M Cephas October 24, 2019 8:17 PM  

I personally think the Earth doesn't move and that it is the center of mass for the entire universe. But I do believe that it's also spherical in shape.

"Galileo Was Wrong" by Robert Sungenis is the best book on the subject anyone has ever written that I'm aware of. I do think you'd give up on The Big Bang Theory and Einstein if you read it, which some Christians are hesitant to do because of that whole "in the beginning" thing.

But an Earth that doesn't move makes a much better argument for the existence of God than the Big Bang ever could.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 24, 2019 8:25 PM  

yet the north star is somehow cixed in the same place despite all of this.

It's not.
http://infogalactic.com/info/Pole_star
It just takes longer than the oldest civilization has been around to change to another star.

Blogger The Logician October 24, 2019 8:38 PM  

One guy says: "The nature of faith in God and pursuit of wisdom are based on the realization that you don't have knowledge or technology to understand everything." Um, the proper response regarding things you don't know is to say: "I don't know." How does ignorance about something constitute a demonstration that there is a God?

Blogger map October 24, 2019 8:45 PM  

I have to admit...this is a good program.

Blogger Raker_T October 24, 2019 8:56 PM  

The current globe model does explain some things; unless I'm understanding the flat/not round model wrong.He says new technology is our printing press. OK, let's take some technology to call/email somebody in Russia while it's daytime in the US. "Comrade, iz nightime there? Da, nighttime" "Spaciba". As I said, maybe I understand the not round model wrong, maybe Eurasia is on the other big plane/area of the not round mass. Also ask Comrade Ruskie if he ever heard of the midnight sun, or short days in winter. In fact, what is winter? Right now the tilted ball idea explains some of this stuff.
A bit OT, but Owen mentioned several times the poor kid in Dallas. There are some seriously neat things in my life right now, but the big ticket negative things have hit very close to home lately as well. I used to let bad stuff make me depressed, morose, melancholy, whatever the term is. But I realized that it was objectively getting cyclical; in that careless decision making nets results with poor yields, which engenders more sorrow, etc. I decided that things must go in separate manila folders as it were, and some folders shouldn't be left open all day.
So this thing with the kid was really bothering me, but I started wondering whether ignoring it would lead to my own kind of delusional mental illness. The guy who's convinced he's Napoleon suffers from delusion of commission, but is there a form in the omission? Obviously, I have zero psychological learning. Anyway, I'm wondering how much this should affect me, and a completely different thought occurs. Maybe that still, small voice, but I'm cautious about claims like that.
The thought was like this: this case is interesting, in regards to the parties involved. the mother, who should be the kid's biggest defender, is against him. Sometimes a parent goes 'round the bend', but the community helps out best that they can. In this case, the community is 11 to 1 against the kid. The government, in the person of the judge, is agianst the kid. The professionals, in the body of vile, wretched doctors who will administer the deed, are against the kids.
We get all caught up in good things like lower unemployment, pulling out of stupid military engagements, so on; but what does God see? Is this a clear cut milestone in US history? Why didn't the angels just appear inside Lot's house, or on his porch? A final indictment against Sodom and Gomorrah?

Blogger Dan Karelian October 24, 2019 8:57 PM  

What is fascinating to observe is the way in which some of the long time high iq commenters here are absolutely compelled to use their processors to rationalize their belief systems, rather than attempt to use that iq to question their fundamental presuppositions about said belief systems.

Repeat a lie six million times and no amount of high iq will even attempt to dismantle it.

Blogger map October 24, 2019 9:00 PM  

Raker_T wrote:We get all caught up in good things like lower unemployment, pulling out of stupid military engagements, so on; but what does God see? Is this a clear cut milestone in US history? Why didn't the angels just appear inside Lot's house, or on his porch? A final indictment against Sodom and Gomorrah?

The world belongs to the Devil. The good things that happen are in spite of his control.

Blogger Arthur Isaac October 24, 2019 9:00 PM  

Sattellite balloon technology? That GPS constellation is one hell of a conspiracy. How come we can mission track where a balloon is going to be months in advance? They have rockets on them to keep them on time and trajectory? Nightsky was able to track the locations of all of those balloons years out on a Windows 95 laptop.

Shark jumping crazy.

Blogger Rocklea Marina October 24, 2019 9:01 PM  

Which cosmology does thermodynamics gel with? Big bang, steady state, creation or turtle? I like causality but I can't prove it. Deduction is but a tool,as is scientage.

Blogger map October 24, 2019 9:01 PM  

Dan Karelian wrote:What is fascinating to observe is the way in which some of the long time high iq commenters here are absolutely compelled to use their processors to rationalize their belief systems, rather than attempt to use that iq to question their fundamental presuppositions about said belief systems.

yes, it is astonishing to see..IQ not for reason, but for rationalization.

Blogger Dave Dave October 24, 2019 9:01 PM  

High IQ doesn't matter if effective intelligence is low. Binary thinkers have low effective intelligence. Rationalisation is common among midwits.

Blogger Scott October 24, 2019 9:20 PM  

Raptor Earth is best Earth.

Blogger The Contrarian October 24, 2019 9:21 PM  

As others pointed out, Owen's streams are like catnip for the feline rhetoric junkies. I'm keeping an open mind but much prefer dialectic arguments for these "biggest lie" type topics. Reading through all these comments it feels like a jump the shark kind of moment for a particular demographic.

Blogger map October 24, 2019 9:22 PM  

man...mindblowing.

Balloon satellites?

A flat horizon?

A flat horizon made to look curved by using a fisheye lens?

The Hubble telescope is in a plane? Called "Sofia?"

Wow.

Blogger map October 24, 2019 9:31 PM  

Thank you, Vox.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 24, 2019 9:31 PM  

"How does ignorance about something constitute a demonstration that there is a God?"

That's not the argument being made. The argument being made is that we see and know very little, so if we assume we see and know everything that assumption precludes wisdom with false information.

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