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Sunday, October 06, 2019

Vatican III?

The Vatican is discussing the possibility of married priests... and other things:
This Sunday kicks off a three-week meeting of bishops at the Vatican to discuss, among other things, ordaining some married men as priests to help alleviate a shortage of Catholic clergy in the nine countries of the Amazon region.

Pope Francis convened the meeting, called a synod, to discuss environmental and religious issues in the Amazon and give special attention to the needs of indigenous communities there. The region includes parts of Brazil, Peru, Ecuador, Colombia, Venezuela, Guyana, Surinam and French Guiana. The Vatican has invited 184 bishops and priests from those countries and from around the world to participate in the synod and vote on measures. Thirty-five women, mostly religious sisters and nuns, have been invited but will not have voting rights.

There will be 17 representatives of the Amazon's indigenous populations, including 9 women, will attend as well.

But before it even begins, the synod has become the center of controversy for both conservatives and liberals.

The Pope told bishops from the region to "be bold" in their proposals for the meeting and Bishop Erwin Krautler, the church's Secretary for the Commission on the Pan-Amazon Region, says he hopes the meeting will address not only ordaining married men, but women too.

"We don't just speak about men because it's exclusionary," Krautler told CNN. "We also want to include women."

The possibility that centuries of Catholic tradition of a celibate priesthood might be overturned has caused conservative outrage.
Since I'm not a Catholic, I don't believe my opinion matters here. But, for those who happen to be interested, I don't think the abandonment of the traditional celibacy requirement for priests would be a bad thing. Married priests, even with the concomitant risk of nepotism, are vastly to be preferred to gay priests, which has been the reality since at least Vatican II.

Furthermore, the Biblical requirements for a deacon not only don't preclude marriage, they actually require it, and the fruits of priestly celibacy have not been generally positive.

Considerably more troubling is the possibility that this Amazonian synod will be used to push the ordainment of women, which would mark the beginning of the end of the Roman Catholic Church.

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147 Comments:

Blogger Gettimothy October 06, 2019 8:05 AM  

I have read that priestly celibacy is a discipline, not dogma. I have no source reference for the assertion

Blogger Paddy J S October 06, 2019 8:06 AM  

Married priests, even with the concomitant risk of nepotism, are vastly to be preferred to gay priests, which has been the reality since at least Vatican II.

A lot of conservative Catholics have to come to the exact thought. In Ireland ground central of the sodomite clergy crisis, it would be preferable.

Blogger FUBARwest October 06, 2019 8:18 AM  

Iirc the reason Catholicism stopped priests from marrying in the first place was so to prevent inheritances going to families, not for a biblical reason. Ending that practice would be a step in the right direction.

How do they justify women as clergy when children and women in leadership positions is a punishment God gives to people who stop following him?

Blogger The Observer October 06, 2019 8:18 AM  

I have read that priestly celibacy is a discipline, not dogma. I have no source reference for the assertion

I've heard that it was a political move to prevent the church from amassing power and land within family lines, inasmuch the same way as certain shinto shrines have been held by the same families for generations. Monarchies and aristocracies didn't want competitors for power within their own borders.

Of course, no source for this, so take it with a grain of salt.

Considerably more troubling is the possibility that this Amazonian synod will be used to push the ordainment of women, which would mark the beginning of the end of the Roman Catholic Church.

The only sin women will condemn is that of not being nice to people, a situation which rapidly leads to enormous amounts of heresy. The virtues which are required to steer an organisation like the church are not feminine ones.

"We don't just speak about men because it's exclusionary," Krautler told CNN. "We also want to include women."

Note that the worm doesn't say why being exclusionary is bad. It's just something that's assumed to be the case.

Blogger Sargent.matrim October 06, 2019 8:25 AM  

Married priests is a great idea. Change under the current leadership not so much a good idea. Unless it is to change the leadership.

Blogger Guy Incognito October 06, 2019 8:28 AM  

"A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;”

Blogger Johnny October 06, 2019 8:28 AM  

I forget the details, but celibacy is definitely a policy, a "discipline," developed well after the church was founded. The lay members of the church in Europe had an enthusiasm for it. I think it was Edward Gibbons who speculated that they probably didn't want to have to support the priest's family in the local churches. As for the accumulation of property, that happened with the church even without married priests. It does seem like the whole celibacy thing doesn't work well in the modern world.

Blogger Clay October 06, 2019 8:37 AM  

If "celibacy" invited so many homos into the Catholic church, I suppose marriage would be a great idea. Until, the homos start getting married.

Yeah, the RC is done. Stick a fork in it.

Blogger Karen took the Kids October 06, 2019 8:38 AM  

Married priests would be a positive step. Until Vatican IV drops which will probably allow priests to marry each other. That's half comedy, half prediction.

Blogger ZhukovG October 06, 2019 8:40 AM  

Roman Catholic here. Yes celibacy for Priests is just a discipline imposed for some of the reasons noted above; property and politics.

I think this discipline is outdated and should be dropped.

Though it's removal should not be viewed as a panacea. I think any Protestant will agree, that Pastor's wives and children can create a whole set of issues to deal with on their own.

Blogger TheGhostlyOne October 06, 2019 8:41 AM  

There are married Catholic priests today.
Priests who come in from the Anglican Church, and are ordained into the Anglican Rite, are often married. Priests from Orthodox Churches, who are often married, keep their wives when they convert to Catholicism. They remain priests as well.

It’s only in the Roman Rite of the Church (vast majority) that prirsts can’t be married. It’s a “discipline” meaning a governing policy that can change, instead of a dogma (unchanging principle of the faith).

Historically, there’s the idea that the reformers, wanted to break up the development of dynastic power within the Church. That probably certainly played a role in motivating them, but this was part of a general reform that overhauled the Church, getting rid of corruption, nepotism, doctrinal infections, as well as trying to remove the appointment of bishops from the power of secular rulers.
The Church had become the dominant Western institution; there was a need to make sure that the spiritual mission was made paramount again.

I am staunchly opposed to this idea, though. It is true that the option for married priests of the Roman Rite would be a good thing in terms of numbers, and that it would reduce the number of sodomites and molesters within the ranks.

However, that’s what would happen if sensible, devout clergy instituted the change.
In reality, the high clergy are evil incarnate, and it will be just like Vox has stated; there will be an attempt to make women priests.

Look at the bishop playing such a massive role in the process; he’s an open heretic. A pissy and mangina, also. I don’t know, but I don’t trust priests like that. Too many have turned out to be molesters.

I’m not sure where I stand on the overall Church. I’m going to mass in a couple hours, but it’s the Latin mass, which is what I stick with exclusively.

The overall Church is so compromised and wrecked, that I’ve had thoughts of other faiths. Just thoughts so far.

Blogger Durandel October 06, 2019 8:43 AM  

It seems difficult for Christians, Catholic or no, post-sexual revolution to understand that celibacy does not lead to gayness.

The gays infiltrating the Church has nothing to do with celibacy, and has much to do with entryism into the Church. Both the Masons, in their document Alta Vendita, and later Stalin with his order to get communist, gay infiltrators into the Church (see School of Darkness by Bella Dodd) are why the priesthood is littered with these deviants. If you remove the celibacy requirement, the infiltrators will just get gay and pedophile communists to marry female conspirators and you end up with the same problem.

If we want the fags out of the clergy, you have to policy the entry into seminary and you have to look out for entryists and purge the ranks when you find traitors. What happened to the Church since 1917 and perhaps earlier based on what Pope Leo XIII wrote about, makes corporate SJW infestation look like a picnic.

Celibacy is a gift from God to men who have supernatural faith. St. Paul was a celibate. He didn't go gay. Same with Sts. Augstine, Jerome, Athanasius, Ignatius, Aquinas, Anselm, Patrick, etc. But check the ranks of the heretics. Almost every single one had an issue with sex.

Believe it or not, you can get control of your desire for sex just as you can control any other appetite. It is probably the most difficult, especially in today's world, but it is possible and certainly possible with God. Celibacy is a good thing for the priesthood, not a bad one. It just sounds insane because we are all told that this is an appetite we can't contain and to do so, according to Freud, is suppression.

Blogger JC Skinner October 06, 2019 8:44 AM  

Yet more antipopery from the Jesuit coup leader.

Blogger Jab Burrwalky October 06, 2019 8:45 AM  

Celibacy wasn't a rule until around 1000 ad and wasn't strictly enforced outside urban centers until the counter-reformation. Celibacy is less of an issue to worry about than women priests except for the fact that masculinity has been eroded, so priest's wives would have highly undue influence in clerical decision making. Maybe that's not so much so in Latin America, I don't know, but no decision there will stay there.

But if they start ordaining women, the church will schism. It's been doctrinally declared that that can't happen and it's not a valid ordination. So a Pope that declares it becomes a heretic.

I don't Francis will though, for that reason. He wants control over the conservative and traditionalist Catholics. Driving us out would cause him to lose that control.

Blogger Rick October 06, 2019 8:46 AM  

The Orthodox Christians marry. Though born into Catholicism, I’m in favor of the Orthodox way. Also, they’re having babies. The Orthodox priests, I mean. As I understand it, marriage is not a requirement of the Orthodox priests.

Blogger Homesteader October 06, 2019 8:48 AM  

We might hope it occurs.

The church would actually have priests with life experience; men of the community, as opposed to the current nomadic system She now employs, where the priests are effectively itinerants, with no roots in the community they ostensibly serve.

I'd venture it would be a mid-life move; many men, after their kids are grown, would see it as a way to share what they've learned over decades of real-world tribulation.

THAT would be a priest I'd listen to.

Also- In the United States, we might finally be rid of the ignominious spectacle of 3rd world troglodites preaching the Gospel in unintelligible accents, while adoring SJW church ladies look on ecstatically.

Let us pray.

Blogger Glaivester October 06, 2019 8:50 AM  

It seems difficult for Christians, Catholic or no, post-sexual revolution to understand that celibacy does not lead to gayness.

I don't think the idea was that the celibacy requirement was turning otherwise straight men gay, but that it was leading to more gay men being recruited.

Blogger Durandel October 06, 2019 8:51 AM  

And as a Catholic, I firmly believe that Francis is either a willing infiltrator, or, he is the useful dupe the Alta Vendita described as their goal to produce. His words and actions are far more inline with Freemasonry and Communism than with authentic Catholic teaching and the Deposit of Faith.

And in my previous comment, I can't recall if it was Lenin or Stalin who ordered the infiltration. If people are interested in what that is about, again see School of Darkness, but also check out Anti-Apostle 1025, Alta Vendita, and search for communist manifestos found during the world war (can't recall if it was I or II) that discussed infiltrating the Catholic Church. There are also book on Vatican II, which discuss the Shadow Council and the betrayal committed by the Pareti that show that Vatican II was a rupture not a continuity, and that it was the victory lap of the infiltrators not the beginning of the infiltration. Most Catholics don't read this stuff and many think it's just conspiracy theories of the traditionalists.

Blogger Durandel October 06, 2019 8:57 AM  

@Glaivester - yes, my phrasing was poor. Many think celibacy requirements leads to mostly gay men being recruited and weak men being recruited. But it's a false assumption. I was in seminary, I went through the process. Within the sexual hierarchy, every group was represented at my seminary. Some of the guys were Alphas and Betas, jocks, intelligent, good looking, capable and had a love for God and his Church. Those guys that eventually became priests are some of the best of the new crop...traditionalist minded too, and Francis has spoken out about it.

But there were also gammas, deltas and a few omegas and lambdas. Deltas are find, good workhorse priests, but the rest should have been purged.

The issue is a matter of policing the ranks and determining who gets in. Not that said man is to take a vow or promise to not stick his dick in a woman. Celibacy is not the determining factor in the recruitment, it's the recruiters aka the Vocation Directors.

Blogger stevo October 06, 2019 9:00 AM  

Although perhaps not ideal, our priest (direct from Congo) is a man of God and we are lucky to have him.

Blogger LZ October 06, 2019 9:01 AM  

Pray a novena daily and fast. Cardinal Burke, Bishop Schneider Announce Crusade of Prayer and Fasting

Blogger John Regan October 06, 2019 9:01 AM  

It's true, the vow of celibacy can be discarded, and that there are married Catholic priests from or in other rites. That said, I think abolishing celibacy in the current circumstances would be like making a concession to an SJW attack: it would accomplish nothing except encouraging the next onslaught.

Blogger Damelon Brinn October 06, 2019 9:02 AM  

@1, Yes, priestly celibacy is a discipline, not a dogma. That means that, unlike many changes during and since Vatican II, it *can* be changed by a pope or council simply saying so.

Unfortunately, that's not a solution to the pedophile priest problem. Yes, it would make more men available for the priesthood. But it wasn't a shortage of men that caused this problem in the first place. The seminaries were packed at the time. It happened because evil people infiltrated the Church and the vocations offices and began rejecting faithful, devoted Catholics and letting through those who sneered at doctrine and wanted to be part of the revolution. As long as those people are in charge, they will continue to ordain and promote bad men with bad motives, whether married or not. The new married priesthood will be used as a shield to hide the pedophiles just as they are in other organizations where celibacy isn't an issue.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 06, 2019 9:06 AM  

"I think it was Edward Gibbons who speculated that they probably didn't want to have to support the priest's family in the local churches."

Paul had something to say tangentially about that, about how to avoid even the potential for impropriety.

"I think any Protestant will agree, that Pastor's wives and children can create a whole set of issues to deal with on their own."

Certainly. The same passage that says that church elders should be married also has things to say about that.

"It seems difficult for Christians, Catholic or no, post-sexual revolution to understand that celibacy does not lead to gayness."

When there's no reason for celibacy, and homosexuality fits the apparent bill since homos often hide it anyway, it incentivizes homosexuality. It might not necessitate homosexuality, but it certainly promotes it.

Before you try to argue: Tree, fruit. We can see the fruit. Are we not to believe our lying eyes?

"If you remove the celibacy requirement, the infiltrators will just get gay and pedophile communists to marry female conspirators and you end up with the same problem."

They'd have to work harder for it though. Remember, three can keep a secret... if two of them are dead. Otherwise, not so easily.

"Celibacy is a gift from God to men who have supernatural faith. St. Paul was a celibate. He didn't go gay."

Why on earth do you think anyone is saying that being celibate turns you homosexual. It's the other way around. Having to maintain the appearance of celibacy to straight people is easier if you're a homo who has to hide anyway.

Blogger Robert What? October 06, 2019 9:07 AM  

The whole concept of "priest" as intermediary between you and God is completely unbiblical. And there is no suggestion in the Bible that elders, deacons, etc, be unmarried.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 06, 2019 9:08 AM  

And yes, women being "ordained" seems to be a hard and fast dividing line between living churches and dead ones. You start that lie up and you're toast in much less than a generation.

Blogger Durandel October 06, 2019 9:11 AM  

Exactly Damelon. Heck, for example, the Baptist church had their own sexual predator/abuser issue recently and all of those ministers are married.

Married men won't end the sexual predator crisis.
Married men won't end the infiltrator crisis.
Married men won't by the power of sexual intercourse increase the average faith of the clergy.

The issue is faith, not sex.

Anyway, celibate priesthood is the least worrying issue of this synod. Female ordination and the paganization of the Church are far more problematic. The working document for the synod wants to add nature worship and pantheism to Christ's Church.

Pray to God. Pray the rosary and the St. Michael prayer. (And no Christian brothers, by pray we are asking for Mary and Michael's prayers and intercessions, we are not worshiping them in place of God. It's similar to asking a Christian prayer warrior in your congregation to pray for you.)

Blogger Homesteader October 06, 2019 9:11 AM  

Regarding infiltration- crowdsource the problem.

Let no candidate for the seminary be chosen without the endorsement of the community which he is to serve. End itinerancy. If a parish can't muster at least ONE man, known and respected, to fill the role, another nearby probably could.

Infiltrators would be filtered out
organically; as each parish would now have skin in the game. Priests would once again be a part of, and answerable to, the parishes they served.

Blogger Akuma October 06, 2019 9:13 AM  

Vatican III will have a staff Psychiatrist on call for the Pope. This will be to ensure the Pope has a direct spiritual phone line to Satan.

Blogger Durandel October 06, 2019 9:13 AM  

@Azure - regarding secrets keeping, I used to think it was difficult for groups to conceal the truth. Evidence in the last few years has dissuaded me that that is true.

It's simply not a good enough reason to do away with the discipline St. Paul recommended. The issue of gay men in the priesthood is an entryst issue and a faith issue.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 06, 2019 9:14 AM  

"It happened because evil people infiltrated the Church and the vocations offices and began rejecting faithful, devoted Catholics and letting through those who sneered at doctrine and wanted to be part of the revolution. As long as those people are in charge, they will continue to ordain and promote bad men with bad motives, whether married or not."

If it's already so far gone that the change won't help at all, then nothing else will either and the "official" RCC just hasn't figured out that it's dead yet.

Blogger Durandel October 06, 2019 9:15 AM  

@Akuma - worse, pope Francis is best buds with Soros lackey Jeffrey Sacks. The man is staying with him during the synod and did the same while Francis wrote Laudato Si.

Blogger JDC October 06, 2019 9:15 AM  

Very interested to hear what our RCC brothers think of the possibility of the church ordaining women.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 06, 2019 9:15 AM  

"Married men won't end"

Nothing humanly possible will end it. It's about reducing it. Stop thinking binary.

"Anyway, celibate priesthood is the least worrying issue of this synod."

Very true.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 06, 2019 9:16 AM  

"It's simply not a good enough reason to do away with the discipline St. Paul recommended."

Saint Paul commanded that all the church elders be married. Where are those in the RCC?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 06, 2019 9:24 AM  

Ordination, not ordainment.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd October 06, 2019 9:25 AM  

Celibacy isn't specifically forbidden by God, although it is deprecated - better to marry than to burn. On the other hand, adding to the word of God is forbidden, and God did not require celibacy.

Ordaining women to teach or have authority is specifically forbidden by God, no probably, no other hands.

Blogger Homesteader October 06, 2019 9:27 AM  

Azure raises an extremely relevant point regarding binary thinking.

No evil ever ends; as its Author is a living, active entity here on earth, who does not rest.

At best, we may limit it, corral it, and attack it, as firefighters in a summer forest..

But Evil will never be ended, until the He returns.

Struggle is the lot of the Faithful. It never ends.

Blogger van helsing October 06, 2019 9:28 AM  

here is something i have been thinking about for awhile, the connection between droit de seigneur (eldest son going into military) and the second son going into the church. assuming droit de seigneur happened and still can (justin castro)... then following mathis's logic, that leads to a lot of jewed-up nobles, who dont give a damn how many of their supposed countrymen they send off to die in war. then when the husband and father of record gets his shot at fathering a child, that high testosterone child gets taken out of the gene pool. and after a long time... maybe that leads to some other negatives for the church. but in the short and long term, it essentially kills our best (and many of the rest) because it makes our gene pool unnaturally shallower faster.

Blogger Akuma October 06, 2019 9:31 AM  

"Considerably more troubling is the possibility that this Amazonian synod will be used to push the ordainment of women, which would mark the beginning of the end of the Roman Catholic Church."

It already exists in other Denominations. A lot Catholic Churches already allow women to partake in important parts of masses. Ive seen them present the Eucharist; altar girls are a thing too. The Catholic Church has been primed for convergence for a while now.

Blogger Damelon Brinn October 06, 2019 9:32 AM  

I don't think the idea was that the celibacy requirement was turning otherwise straight men gay, but that it was leading to more gay men being recruited.

Yes, that's the common belief, but it just isn't true. As I touched on above, when the crop of pedophiles who preyed on boys in the 70s/80s were applying to seminary in the 50s/60s, the seminaries were full and getting plenty of applications, so they were able to be picky. The priest who molested a classmate of mine famously applied to 25 different seminaries before being accepted (he was admired for his refusal to give up).

So they could be picky, but they were picky in the wrong direction. If a young man said he wanted to be a traditional parish priest and devote himself to his flock and the Sacraments, he would be rejected for being too stuck on the old ways. If he said he wanted to make the Church more relevant in the modern age and heal the world, he got in. A good number of the second group were homos or homo-friendly, so as they got in they brought in more. Convergence.

I'd be fine with married priests. I just know that if the cabal that currently occupies the Vatican enacts it, it will be for bad motives. They're not going to stop ordaining homos and effeminate men and start ordaining strong married men instead. They'll just
start bringing in effeminate married men they feel comfortable with, and some of them will be pedophiles or closeted homos. Most likely they hope that people will think, "Oh good, that solves the pedophile problem, so we can relax and stop watching Father like a hawk every time he comes within ten feet of a kid," and they can keep doing what they do.

Blogger FrankUnderwood October 06, 2019 9:40 AM  

Well, married prests sounds good enough. It woud not be surpriseing however if this is the first step towards married gay prests.

Blogger Doktor Jeep October 06, 2019 9:42 AM  

This might at least help cut down on the pederasty.
But then women priests...
I could boomer it up and say "well, you have to take the bad with the good. Tee hee". But that notion has turned out to be a failed experiment that cost us a civilization.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd October 06, 2019 9:45 AM  

ZhukovG wrote:I think any Protestant will agree, that Pastor's wives and children can create a whole set of issues to deal with on their own.

Yes. However, a pastor who can't control his wife is unsuited to the job, so the elders need to go over 1 Timothy 3 with him, and tell him to shape up or ship out. Elders can't do that? Leave that assembly, it's not lead by Godly men.

ZhukovG wrote:Though it's removal should not be viewed as a panacea.

Forbidding marriage draws one sort of pervert. Allowing marriage will draw other sorts. It will change the perversion, but will not eliminate the apostacy.

Blogger Dave Dave October 06, 2019 9:45 AM  

When reading the Bible it's mentioned several times that the religious teachers should be married and have children. Celibacy for priests was a political decision, and a very good one for many hundreds of years. But like all political decisions, it must be overturned when it's served its purpose. Celibate priests is a good thing, but unfortunately it has been abused by sodomites who have no interest in marriage or women. It's a lot harder to fake a marriage, especially a Catholic marriage. No divorces unless they become apostates.
As a political decision, married priests will be fine if this synod makes serious moves to expel the sodomites. Woman ordination is absolutely preposterous, however, and there's very little chance of that ever happening. Let's pray that the next Pope is a reactionary with an aggressive desire for an inquisition.

Blogger Dave Dave October 06, 2019 9:49 AM  

Frank Underwood, that is not going to happen. The Catholic church is still the least gay church in the West. There's a long way to go to be as un-gay as the Orthodox, but at least the convergence cannot corrupt the Catholic church to the point of requiring homosexuality. Churchians 'preach' that homos go to heaven. That's a better deal than whatever us normals are getting.

Blogger Monotonous Languor October 06, 2019 10:00 AM  

Instituting reasonable change without also clearly defining enforceable limits to that change is the bane of all institutions. That's yet another reason why lawyers and their ilk are so dangerous to any society.

Blogger Wilkes Marprelate October 06, 2019 10:01 AM  

A couple of points: this would be a return to the Catholic Church position of the earlier Medieval era, where priests could marry and, two, regardless whether they adopt this as policy, it won't stop the possibility of gay or pedophile priests. Just because a priest is permitted to have a wife for sexual intercourse, doesn't mean he'll not still have those other sexual desires. A big reason for the rise of gay and pedophile priests post -WWII is that the church became weaker in screening candidates and softer on sexual morality (especially post Vatican II) and, also, because there was a concerted effort by more aggressive gay and pedophile groups to infiltrate the church (which they've been trying to do, with growing success, in Evangelical Protestant churches, too; many of whom have also become weaker on morality, especially as many adopted more 'Progressive' views on issues). Much stronger safeguards and a stricter adherence to Biblical norms would really help sole these problems; regardless the church.

Blogger artensoll October 06, 2019 10:03 AM  

Ann Barnhardt has this to say on the subject: https://www.barnhardt.biz/2018/01/04/cut-the-crap-no-sex-for-priests-deacons-and-subdeacons-even-if-married/

Blogger Max Boivin October 06, 2019 10:04 AM  

I'm a Catholic and I would be for allowing marriage for priest, if it wasn't done by the current "pope". Under the rule of the usurper, I'm very wary of any reform. The move seems to be a Trojan horse to push female priesthood, which I'm absolutely against.

Also, I hate that they want to allow marriage for priest out of convenience instead of from an ideological or theological reasoning.

Blogger JohnG October 06, 2019 10:04 AM  

And soon they will have married homosexual priests.

Blogger VIOYHDTYKIT October 06, 2019 10:06 AM  

Celibacy is a practice not a dogma, though Christ, Paul and other Apostles preach the aesthetic efficacy of celibacy. It's considered a gift, as marriage is considered a Sacramental gift, so to give up marriage, something deemed holy in the Church is to offer a holy gift to God. Only pure & holy gifts can be offered to God, and marriage & procreation are two of the most holiest & precious gifts God gives to man. Priest take a vow of celibacy, no one forces them into seminary, it's a decision reached thru prayer & contemplation.

As far as priests marrying, thinking it will curb the abuse crisis it won't. If a priest-or any person for that matter-has a disordered sexual desire, marriage is not the cure. Experiencing the redemptive power of Christ in one’s fallen sexuality is the cure. Getting married will only involve the transferal of a man’s unhealthy lust to his wife or children. Conversely, if a man abuses his wife, the solution to the problem is not the renunciation of his call to marriage. The solution lies precisely in his call to marriage-to love his bride as Christ loved the Church. Furthermore, the overwhelming majority of the abuse cases are of priests abusing mainly post-pubescent boys (pederasty) or of priests actually harassing and abusing male adult seminarians. In other words it's a "homo sexuality" problem within the ranks, not a heterosexual problem. These figures are based on a John Jay study commissioned by the Ruth Institute.

There are practical reasons too. Paul enumerates them in Corinthians. The priest is considered the Shepard of his flock, thru Holy celibacy, he's able to focus all his attentions on his flock whereas marriage brings into play the priests wife and children to worry about in addition to his flock. In such a situation we could make a good assumption of who would have priority over a priests devotion & attention. Catholic priests have a very busy schedule compared to a protestant pastor. He has Sacramental duties to attend ever day such as Masses, confessions, marriages, confirmations, baptisms and anointing of the sick as well as the concerns about keeping the pipes working & lights on in a parish. It's true that the RC will allow in limited cases widows & other clerical converts into the priesthood such as Anglicans, Methodists etc. who are married or formerly married, but widows must take a vow of celibacy as well as clerics who may divorce after ordination.(Anglican etc).

The Amazonian Synod has a two pronged objective by the modernists. One is to promote a false concept of Synodality and two to introduce woman's ordination to the priesthood. The Synodality is to promote a false autonomy at the local level to bypass the Magisterium which is the final & supreme authority on "all" dogmatic & doctrinal issues. In essence the Church never relegated local synods to be the arbiter of dogmatic matters, for the Church has a duty to protect the deposit of faith handed down to it by Christ himself. Once, and only if they can introduce these heresies into the "local bloodstream" then parishes all over the world would start introducing these non dogmatic policies into churches with the excuse that it would now be impossible to turn off such actions because so many parishes worldwide are now practicing these false dogmas. The Pope would be placed in a very precarious situation, either ex-communicate prelates & clerics en masse if they refuse to revert back to Church dogma, thus probably losing many prelates & clerics & cannibalizing the Church or now accept formal Heresy and then try to institute it into the Church at which point would assuredly create a schism. It's a lose-lose proposition from the start & Francis should have never allowed the synod to go forward just based of the "Laboris Instrumentum" or working document. Pray for our Church.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd October 06, 2019 10:06 AM  

TheGhostlyOne wrote:The overall Church is so compromised and wrecked, that I’ve had thoughts of other faiths. Just thoughts so far.

Other faiths? Turning moslim? Drop the denomination, but don't drop your faith in your savior. Jesus saves, denominations don't.

Jab Burrwalky wrote:But if they start ordaining women, the church will schism.

As it should. We are not to worship with apostates.

Robert What? wrote:The whole concept of "priest" as intermediary between you and God is completely unbiblical.

The New Testament and the new covenant rule out a priesthood. The saved have Jesus as intermediary, and need no other. It's an affront to your savior to demand that he deal with you through a third party.

Blogger Newscaper312 October 06, 2019 10:06 AM  

Part of the historic context for the change to celibacy was not somehow robbing families of their inheritance, but rather the real practical problems caused by having the secular aristocracy also being in the religious hierarchy, ex the local baron is also the bishop? Actual Church blood dynasties It really risked muddled the independence of the Church as an above it all institution that crossed borders (not that it was exactly shy about exerting temporal power in its own right).
I am a born and raised Catholic who had the twenty-something agnostic/atheist phase, although never had the anti-church hate many ex Catholics did. Been slowly working my way back from merely appreciating Christianity to at least glimpses of faith if that makes any sense. Have raised our son Catholic.
Married male priests? Should absolutely be considered. Women priest's? No way in hell. And unfortunately, yes, the bastards would try to make it a package deal. Ive already seen how allowing girls to be altar servers, basically stupidly driving out the boys from something that used to be special for them, and a good path possibly to the seminary. I was an altar boy 7 years in the 70s and felt a bit of that lure myself at one time. No I was never messed with whatsoever.
I will actually grant that in the past, before the last 70 years or so, there may have been the occasional deeply closeted gay priest who rejected it and was chaste, and channeled their energy into serving God and did genuine good. Now it is simply poison and must be burned out.

Blogger Ferdinand October 06, 2019 10:09 AM  

I am catholic, and I am in favor of this for several reasons. Firstly, the families of priests in protestant countries have a history of being THE pillar of the community in their congregation, living ideally a christian family life the others can aspire to. Secondly, Priestly families often had many children, and many of them were highly talented. Some of the most talented artists in the protestant sphere were from pastoral stock. And the whole west has a dire need of children and native brainpower right now. Thirdly, there is a horrible lack of new catholic priests in most catholic european countries. Most of the priests that follow the retiring ones are not of the nation, they are either polish, african, south american or south east asian, further alianating conservatives from engaging in the church. Allowing and encouriging Priests to marry would get family oriented natives with above average IQ to go into the seminar and become Priests, hopefully solving the issue. And lastly, you can't believably stand for traditonal family values, marriage and so on, but be yourself without a family and children. Speaking from their own experience would help them advise other parents and spouses with their own problems, espescially now that there is a pretty big need for good advice today that is not leftist, since the whole Psychology field is so extremely left wing. This could be a traditionalist counterweight to this.

Blogger Newscaper312 October 06, 2019 10:11 AM  

@52
Married priests isn't about a fix because lack of sex somehow makes them go after boys, so marry them to a woman. Its about increasing the number of priests by removing an obstacle to healthy heterosexual men.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch October 06, 2019 10:11 AM  

Woe to that pope who tries to introduce married priests.

Marie-Julie Jahenny was told this would happen.

Blogger Sam Sutherland October 06, 2019 10:20 AM  

Charles Chiniquy wrote a lot about the effects of celibacy in the priesthood. He said that some priests he knew "took greater liberties with nuns than men take with their wives."

Blogger Laramie Hirsch October 06, 2019 10:23 AM  

Whoops. Excuse me, it was St. Briget of Sweden:

Know this too: that if some pope concedes to priests a license to contract carnal marriage, God will condemn him to a sentence as great, in a spiritual way, as that which the law justly inflicts in a corporeal way on a man who has transgressed so gravely that he must have his eyes gouged out, his tongue and lips, nose and ears cut off, his hands and feet amputated, all his body’s blood spilled out to grow completely cold, and finally, his whole bloodless corpse cast out to be devoured by dogs and other wild beasts. Similar things would truly happen in a spiritual way to that pope who were to go against the aforementioned preordinance and will of God and concede to priests such a license to contract marriage.

For that same pope would be totally deprived by God of his spiritual sight and hearing, and of his spiritual words and deeds. All his spiritual wisdom would grow completely cold; and finally, after his death, his soul would be cast out to be tortured eternally in hell so that there it might become the food of demons everlastingly and without end. Yes, even if Saint Gregory the Pope had made this statute, in the aforesaid sentence he would never have obtained mercy from God if he had not humbly revoked his statute before his death.”

Blogger Newscaper312 October 06, 2019 10:25 AM  

Another dumb thing the US Church does...
Half of the problem with lack of American priests (first half being the poisoned culture) is the too small family size among white middle class Catholics. There just isnt going to be a lot if support for your only son to become a priest (another reason to allow marriage). So having multiple sons should be supported in practical policy. If you have families conscientious enough to sacrifice to send their kids to parochial school... Make the damned things more affordable. A lot of them no longer have the old multi child discounts. And worse, the catholic college prep high schools cost almost as much as the uppity private ones. Instead of multi child discount, apparently those parish collections are funneled to more freaking immigrants... Or "scholarships" for non Catholic black athletes to buy a state championship.

Blogger Newscaper312 October 06, 2019 10:30 AM  

I get concerns about the spectacle of priests orcing in this day and age. Also priests dating. Maybe there should be a requirement that they only marry before being ordained? I also see a real morale problem for some existing priests if this change should occur.
But given parish priests could be married for *centuries*, I just dont see it as bedrock church doctrine.

Blogger Mr Smith October 06, 2019 10:36 AM  

There are already married priest in the Catholic Church, in the Eastern Catholic or Byzantine rite. They might as well make it optional in the Latin rite.

Blogger JovianStorm October 06, 2019 10:45 AM  

Seeing as how the Vatican made up all its rules on a whim to suit the power hungry leadership, why not just do it and dispense with the populist farce?

They're really no different than any other idol-worshipping Churchians with the exception of having deeper pockets from a long history of fleecing the poor. So why do they bother with this ecclesiastical rigamarole?

Blogger Gregory the Great October 06, 2019 10:45 AM  

Writing on the wall:
This will lead to gay and lesbian marriage between priests. And of course to men who identify as women becoming priests.

Blogger John October 06, 2019 10:50 AM  

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/st-paul-and-priestly-celibacy

Blogger papabear October 06, 2019 11:01 AM  

@15 Yes the Orthodox ordained celibates as well but they are usually monastics or associated with a monastery.

Regarding the purging of gammas from the seminary -- I should note that though women are not ordained to the preisthood for the RCs, they nonetheless hold leadership positions through the RC Church, and this includes seminaries, where they can have a say over who is qualified to be proceed towards ordination.

Blogger Sam Spade October 06, 2019 11:02 AM  

I'm catholic and I agree with Vox.

Blogger John October 06, 2019 11:04 AM  

For more information:

http://www.unamsanctamcatholicam.com/component/content/article/82-spirtuality/607-pope-and-priestly-marriage-st-bridget.html

Blogger Honingbij October 06, 2019 11:14 AM  

@15 "As I understand it, marriage is not a requirement of the Orthodox priests".

EO here. In the Eastern Orthodox church, a man must be married before being ordained to the diaconate [the step before being ordained to the priesthood]. Those wishing to be priests, but celibate, take monastic vows and are called "hieromonks".


Blogger ASpanishCatholic October 06, 2019 11:18 AM  

I'm cahtolic. I do not think married priesthood is needed. It's not a good idea. Why? I´ve read Durandel's comments above. I counldn't articulate it better. Why did I pots? It was looking like catholics are all into this awkward transformation high clergy is pushing.

Blogger Honingbij October 06, 2019 11:25 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Honingbij October 06, 2019 11:27 AM  

@11 " The overall Church is so compromised and wrecked, that I’ve had thoughts of other faiths".

The Russian Orthodox church is neither compromised nor wrecked, so you might want to give it a look.

Blogger Chent October 06, 2019 11:33 AM  

Another Catholic here. I am not opposed to married priests. Priests could marry for the first thousand years of the Church. Priests coming from Orthodoxy and Anglicanism keep their wives. Google "standing on my head" for an example of married Catholic priest.

I am opposed to married priests UNDER THE DIRECTION OF CURRENT CATHOLIC HIERARCHY, who are servants of Satan. They want the whole enchilada: women priests, gay marriage, etc. They start with married priests because it's the easiest thing

Blogger Weouro October 06, 2019 11:34 AM  

Married men can become priests in Orthodox but priests can't get married. Only unmarried priests can become bishops.

Blogger The Depolrable Podunk Ken Ramsey October 06, 2019 11:36 AM  

I'm against the move. Also, I oppose this notion stated abundantly here that the chief reason for celibate priesthood in the first place was merely economic. Balderdash! Celibacy has always been proffered as the spiritual ideal, and that's the chief reason for celibacy among all the regular orders including priests.

(Furthermore, I note that even tiny Protestant churches up among small Appalachian communities never had trouble supporting married pastors. That is, until Obamacare came!)

What's worse, allowing married priests has many hallmarks of a typical "progressive" solution. "What's wrong with letting women vote? It's only fair and it allows for greater justice. Or having Senators represent the People rather than the States?" And so on. We've seen and discussed at length how these seemingly straightfoward, commonsense solutions come armed with ruinous side-effects. Here today we have the institution of marriage, no, the Sacrament of Holy Marriage, increasingly compromised across the globe. And this is the environment they pick to sweep what's already sick into to the Church, to cure another sickness? Why not bleed the Church with leeches. That may be a saner course of action.

Once upon a time, a time that lasted nearly 2000 years in fact, it was possible for the Catholic Church to field a celibate priesthood. The Church had ample spiritual strength to do that. What's happened today? A spiritual crisis in the Church. She's weakened, that sickness I mentioned is there. The difficulty finding young priests isn't the problem, it's a knock-off symptom. That central disease is not going to be cured by treating an ancillary symptom. Worse, the hoped-for cure may aid the disease.

What is the progressives' solution to supporting their Nanny State Ponzis and Wall Street assumptions of eternal market growth? Open borders. Well, that may help the math. But it kills the nations. It treats a symptom, ignores the disease.

Vox said that a married priest is better than a gay priest. Agreed. That's a very salient point, but it's the only advantage I can come up with.

Blogger Dave Dave October 06, 2019 11:42 AM  

Anyone thinking they can turn from the Catholic Church because of this will do nothing more than leave the Church in a worse state than it was, and will corrupt other churches with their cowardice. If you are a Catholic, you have a duty to push back if you're not on board with this. This is political, not doctrinal, so push hard and talk with your priest about it.

Blogger pyrrhus October 06, 2019 11:43 AM  

For centuries, "country" priests could be married and usually were...only anointed priests were required to be celibate...

Blogger cecilhenry October 06, 2019 11:45 AM  

I agree, celibacy was never preached by the early church for bishops.


The Globohomo agenda is everywhere though, even in a rugby world cup of all places.


Never forget:
Your enemy never misses a chance to shove subversion into all aspects of life.

Give them their ethics....
Globohomo™ will destroy everything 'inclusive' enough to let it get a foothold.



How rugby is empowering women in Fiji


https://www.world.rugby/sevens-series/news/496354

Blogger Tile Maker October 06, 2019 11:57 AM  

Martin Luther said, “To what a sad state have the clergy fallen, and how many priests do we not find burdened with women, and children, and remorse, and yet no one comes to their aid! It is all very well for the pope and the bishops to let things go on as before, and for that to continue lost which is lost; but I am determined to save my conscience, and to open my mouth freely: after that, let the pope, the bishops, and any one who pleases, take offense at it! I assert, then, that according to the appointment of Christ and his apostles, each city should have a pastor or bishop, and that this pastor may have a wife, as Saint Paul writes to Timothy: A bishop must be the husband of one wife (1 Timothy 3:2), and as is still practiced in the Greek Church. But the devil has persuaded the pope, as the same apostle says to Timothy (1 Timothy 4:1 to 3), to forbid the clergy to marry. And hence have proceeded miseries so numerous that we cannot mention all. What is to be done? How can we save so many pastors, in whom we have no fault to find, except that they live with a woman, to whom they would with all their heart be legitimately married? Ah let them quiet their consciences! let them take this woman as their lawful wife, and let them live virtuously with her not troubling themselves whether the pope is pleased or not. The salvation of your soul is greater consequence to you than tyrannical and arbitrary laws, that do not emanate from the Lord.”

I'm a bit freaked out that as a part of the great apostasy of the latter days as Paul writes in the book of Timothy that priests would be forbidden to marry and would command people to abstain from meats. Is he talking about the catholic church's priests and the good friday rule of no meat? I'm not totally sure but it looks like a match.

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth." (1 Tim 4:1-3)

Blogger VD October 06, 2019 12:23 PM  

You're banned, dumnonia-watchman. Stop trying to comment here.

Blogger NateM October 06, 2019 12:25 PM  

As a Catholic it'd give me the excuse to go Orthodox if the info here is true and they have married priest

Blogger cyrus83 October 06, 2019 12:26 PM  

Married priests sounds like a great thing until some of the details are looked at. It is true there are married clergy in the Catholic Church, but even where permitted, it is required that the marriage take place prior to the ordination, and there is no permission for a remarriage in the event of spousal death or the marriage being declared null, even for deacons.

Further, there is a long western tradition that all clerics, even those married, are required to observe perpetual continence - this requirement is still in canon law, although obviously flouted by many. I'm not sure how many prospective priests or their wives are going to sign up for marrying, having the kids, and then abstaining from sexual relations from ordination onward.

We do have a sodomite priest problem, but the problem comes from an infiltration by sodomites and subsequent gay mafia set up by the infiltrators to self-perpetuate their cabal. That problem doesn't go away by getting more lax in the rules for future priests, just as the general laxity in what is required of lay people since Vatican II didn't produce the expected fruit. The people didn't get more holy by dropping all the disciplines, they became indifferent and undisciplined. The general rule is people live down to the minimum required by law, and the lower the bar, the less serious the remaining law is taken.

Blogger Roy Lofquist October 06, 2019 12:32 PM  

"are vastly to be preferred to gay priests, which has been the reality since at least Vatican II."

Actually, since the second century A.D.

Blogger RedJack October 06, 2019 12:34 PM  

Battered Wife Syndrome. If you are single, ok. If you have children, all it means is that your beliefs die with you. Look at all the older ELCA members wondering why their kids went to college and came back tree worshiping pagans "After all we stayed to FIGHT!"

Jesus didn't join the moneylenders, He kicked them out of the Temple. And for that, more than anything else, he was killed.

Blogger Careless Whisper October 06, 2019 12:36 PM  

While I also distrust the purity of Francis' motives here, I'm not exactly put off. This is my fantasy:

Rome allows parish priests to be married.
Rome removes filioque from creed.
Rome reverts to first among equals status with other Orthodox bishops.

East/West Schism resolved


Let's face it. If it could *ever* happen, it would only happen because bad actors accidentally left the door open for it. So hell, maybe it'll turn out for the best.

Blogger RedJack October 06, 2019 12:39 PM  

@60 My Lutheran parish runs a k-8 school. We have a lot of former Catholic school families who were 1. Chased out by the price and 2. Realized the focus was on sports, not God. A few were sent to us BY THE PRIESTS!

But running a school is expensive. The .gov is cranking down on the requirements, and the local public schools are putting massive pressure to "educate" the parents that send their children to private/home school that they are "Cowards for not having their children improve our schools!"

So prices keep going up to maintain the school.

Blogger Gregory the Great October 06, 2019 12:45 PM  

Roy Lofquist wrote:"are vastly to be preferred to gay priests, which has been the reality since at least Vatican II."

Actually, since the second century A.D.


Where have you got that from? At that time they were probably all married, and to women!

Blogger Guy Incognito October 06, 2019 12:58 PM  

GREAT book. "40 years in the Church of Rome". I read that when I was a young teen.

Blogger Gašpar Frankopan October 06, 2019 12:58 PM  

Priestly celibate is not, and has never been a dogma in Catholic church. As every child who attended Catholic catechism lessons knows, it is church command, not God's. And even in Catholic church it is not everywhere enforced - priests in Catholic churches of eastern rite (AKA Greek Catholics) can be married and usually are.
I would prefer married priests "just to be sure". :-)

Blogger Warunicorn October 06, 2019 1:01 PM  

There are two Rites recognized in the Catholic Church: The Roman Rite (which, as you all know, is the more popular one), and the Eastern or Byzantine Rite.

The Roman does not allow marriage in any level of clerical power. (This all boils down to discipline. Sadly, most men are not up to the task, hetero or homo. I remember a story not too long ago where a priest was having an affair with a woman(!). He ended up commiting suicide.)

The latter does allow marriage BUT they must already be married when they enter AND cannot expect to rise above the rank of priest; titles such as bishop and cardinal still demand celibacy.

It's also the oldest, since it pretty much has remained unchanged for centuries---as old school as it gets, if you will. (I believe Orthodox also follow similar rituals to the Eastern Rite but don't know for sure; I'm not Orthodox but it would make sense because that's the area it originated from.)

In general, if the requirement for the Roman Rite was lifted, I wouldn't have a problem with it. My problem with f*cksticks like Pope Francis remain, however.

Blogger Honingbij October 06, 2019 1:10 PM  

@85
"Rome reverts to first among equals status with other Orthodox bishops.
East/West Schism resolved."

There's just that little matter between the Moscow and the Ecumenical Patriarch to sort out first.

Blogger Mr X October 06, 2019 1:37 PM  

"It seems difficult for Christians, Catholic or no, post-sexual revolution to understand that celibacy does not lead to gayness."

This. Allowing priests to marry may or may not be a good thing (I personally think it won't change things all that much, and may even further the decadence of the Church, because any change which is just to accommodate for current vogues is usually bad), but it won't affect the problem of gay priests which is NOT caused by celibacy. But simply by gay priests infiltrating the Vatican.

There's no celibacy requirement in Boy Scouts, schools or, er, synagogues, and yet that doesn't solve the issue of gay/pedo infiltration.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 06, 2019 1:40 PM  

"Ann Barnhardt has this to say on the subject"

Women are not to teach men.

"Celibacy has always been proffered as the spiritual ideal, and that's the chief reason for celibacy among all the regular orders including priests."

Where does this doctrine come from? I expect Paul to be quoted, sans context. Please don't.

"Once upon a time, a time that lasted nearly 2000 years in fact, it was possible for the Catholic Church to field a celibate priesthood. The Church had ample spiritual strength to do that."

If it was possible, how come it never happened? At the very least, it certainly didn't happen for even a thousand years total, let alone two thousand. Total celibate priesthood? Nope.

I agree that "we don't have enough priests" is possibly bad reasoning.

I understand that the Orthodox allow married men to become priests, but do not allow priests to marry. I don't know the particulars of why exactly on the second part, but I suspect it has to do with avoiding the potential appearance of impropriety.

"How can we save so many pastors, in whom we have no fault to find, except that they live with a woman, to whom they would with all their heart be legitimately married?"

I agree with some of what Luther is saying here, but the church has no more control over what is marriage than the state does. Legitimate is defined by God, quite early in Genesis... and any church which thinks otherwise is just wrong. They're either legitimately in union or not, and the church does not have authority to define that.

If you want to see where the state gets of saying homosexuals are married, it's not very far from where the church gets off saying people aren't if it hasn't been officially presided over.

"Further, there is a long western tradition that all clerics, even those married, are required to observe perpetual continence - this requirement is still in canon law, although obviously flouted by many."

From where does this tradition come? That is also where it will go in like fashion.

Blogger furor kek tonicus ( 'A Pillowed Dawn', the Boomer Horror movie ) October 06, 2019 1:50 PM  

10. ZhukovG October 06, 2019 8:40 AM
I think any Protestant will agree, that Pastor's wives and children can create a whole set of issues to deal with on their own.



the notorious 'PK' or Preacher's Kid.

which is just acknowledgement that the Prots are ALSO failing to abide by the Biblical requirements for authority in the Church.

for it is by the behavior of his children and wife that a man is to be judged un / fit to be a bishop.

the Catholic Encyclopedia on Clerical Celibacy:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03481a.htm

i will note only that the Church considers it a greater crime for a married priest to continue to have marital relations with his wife

than to publicly spit upon the Bible and renounce Christianity.

"The earliest enactment on the subject is that of the Spanish Council of Elvira (between 295 and 302) in canon xxxiii. It imposes celibacy upon the three higher orders of the clergy, bishops, priests, and deacons. If they continue to live with their wives and beget children after their ordination they are to be deposed."

Blogger SemiSpook37 October 06, 2019 1:54 PM  

A lot of truth in that assessment. The wife is a PT aide for our school, which nets a discount for our children’s tuition. Without that, the sibling discount is an absolute joke.

Blogger SemiSpook37 October 06, 2019 1:59 PM  

One thing you need to consider is that the discipline is subject to the acceptance of the majority rite in a particular country. Here in the US, a lot of the Uniate rites had to submit to the predominant Latin authorities on celibacy and marriage as part of the influx of Eastern Europeans back in the late 19th/early 20th Century. It’s only been recently that those sanctions have been relaxed, what with the Uniate eparchies shrinking to basically next to nothing.

Blogger cyrus83 October 06, 2019 2:04 PM  

That virginity and celibacy are both preferential to marriage are attested to by both the Old and New testaments, hence our Lord using the phrase eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven. It's of a part with giving away all that one has to follow the Lord, it doesn't just mean money and possessions.

When looking at Christ as the model priest, he was not married, remained celibate, and isn't known to have had any possessions apart from the clothes on his back. The ideal is for priests to as close as possible match Christ's example.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 06, 2019 2:13 PM  

Careless Whisper wrote:Rome allows parish priests to be married.
Rome removes filioque from creed.
Rome reverts to first among equals status with other Orthodox bishops.
East/West Schism resolved


The pope is too busy surrendering to the prince of this world to surrender to the stiff-necked East.

Blogger Newscaper312 October 06, 2019 2:19 PM  

I dont know why people keep up straw man arguments to shoot down about married priests proposed as somehow solving the gay priest problem.
Its not, its about removing one barrier to many good normal men becoming priests, to address the shortage of vocations.

Blogger The Depolrable Podunk Ken Ramsey October 06, 2019 2:51 PM  

Azure Amaranthine wrote:Where does this doctrine come from? I expect Paul to be quoted, sans context. Please don't.

As other Catholics have been at pains to point out here, it's not a doctrine. The spiritual idea is that a state of celibacy brings one closer to Christ, and it's a very old idea. Support for it exists throughout scriptures, from Psalms (or before) out through Revelations. This includes the Gospels of Mark and Luke.

Refer to a one of the better, footnoted versions of Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church. It will have scores of references, both scriptural and otherwise, on the topic.

As Catholics we do not, like Protestants, toss out the Magisterium and traditions of our Church. Look back to the conditions of the Early Church and you find support in spades for this notion of celibacy being a state closer to the holy. That notion was also prevalent in Rome before Christians came, see the Vestal Virgins. Large celibate communities (male and female together) were a common feature of the early Church. St. Clement has not one but two surviving letters addressed to such communities. Letters of St. Ingatius refer to their example, and it's a bit theme in the letters of St. Justin the Martyr.

When Rome fell and the lights went out forever on the dying pagan world, Christians fled TO the monasteries and convents and other celibate communities in the chaos. By this time the Roman Rite had already been established, with celibacy as a feature of the priests and those from the regular orders (and also, a not uncommon feature of the laity, too).

Yes, it all started about 2,000 years ago. That's the heritage of it that continues today.

Okay, I'm sure all this falls on tin ears with Protestants, who always demand only quotes from their own smaller set of scriptures, and then want to contest every point according to their own understanding. I'm not expecting to win converts or argue theology.

I'm just laying out the traditional Catholic position as I can, that is all.

Yes, it's not Protestant.

Blogger Peter October 06, 2019 3:11 PM  

There are married catholic priests rightnnow in the US.. they come form other rites and when they convert to RCC they keep thier wives .. so its really no big deal. Its never been canon for priests to be celibate and single...

Blogger Stilicho October 06, 2019 3:12 PM  

@92 official celibacy has always been a convenient excuse for lack of marriage/family and a convenient way to hide the homos in a Roman Catholic family. Add in the easy access to young boys (same problem as Boy Scouts that don't prohibit homos) and you have a recipe for disaster. Factor in the self-perpetuating and self-promoting effect of the Lavender Mafia and normal people start presuming--with some justification--that all priests are gay (and likely inclined to pedophilia) until proven otherwise in individual cases. It's entirely reasonable.

Blogger R.G. Camara October 06, 2019 3:12 PM  

Catholic here, a number of points:
1. Celibacy has been very positive for the Church for 2000 years. We've had lots of corrupt times in the Church -- not merely homosexual, e.g. the Borgias the pornocracy---but celibacy has been a boon, not a bust, to the spread of the Church -- a church which currently encompasses roughly 1/8th of the world's population. The idea that this late-stage homosexual corruption shows the errors of celibacy ignores that history.
2. Homosexuals have always been attracted to all-male institutions, so the idea that priestly celibacy somehow uniquely attracts gays is incorrect. For example, historically, corrupt armies---usually those in peacetime --- had homosexual problems. Prisons have men who have sex with men while in prison but consider themselves straight outside of prison. etc.
3. The Church has dealt with widespread homosexual corruption before, and successfully fixed it. For example St. Peter Damian led a victorious purge against homosexual corruption literally 1000 years ago. So cleaning this up is possible without "married priests": https://infogalactic.com/info/Peter_Damian
4. "Married priests" is long trotted out as a solution to the issue, but it is merely a camel's nose to other "changes" in the Church structure. It will not stop homosexuals from jumping in, and will in fact only embolden them, as they now know that millenia-old Church rules can fall and will fall.
5. For those more Biblically/scripturally inclined, Matthew 19 is a good starting point to why clerical celibacy is correct.
6. The idea that Church celibacy is "new" or only since 1000 is dead wrong. Enforcement may have been difficult during the first 1000 years in various places, but celibacy was always the general rule and practice. Remember, during the first 1500 years the Church was also fighting to enforce many other things about practice, and so celibacy was just one of many things that certain parts of the Church ignored as part of there different rites. For example, in Ireland, there was long a "Celtic Rite" of Mass that was different than Rome's, and Rome had difficulty bringing the Irish church in line---so it allowed the then-Catholic English permission to invade in order to reform the Irish Church---under the papal bull Laudibiliter. This was the beginning of English control and conquest of Ireland lasting to the present day. https://infogalactic.com/info/Laudabiliter
7. This current homosexual infiltration is part of a very long communist plan of Church corruption begun in the 1920s and 30s. Bella Dodd has testified to being part of it, where she recruited communists, radicals, and homosexuals to join the Church then. These young seminarians of the 1920s-1930s became the bishops and senior theologians of the 1950s 1960s who pushed Vatican II, which created even widerspread corruption of succeeding decades: https://infogalactic.com/info/Bella_Dodd . So the same globalists who push open borders, feminism, & abortion today are working under the same plan to get homos in the pulpits then.
8. Finally, the Traditionalist Catholic website ChurchMilitant.com has excellent articles and videos on why clerical celibacy is correct. Michael Voris, a former practicing homosexual, is adamant in his mission to save the Church, including priestly celibacy. Here's an example article from them, for those interested: https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/on-chastity

Blogger Avalanche October 06, 2019 3:30 PM  

@29 "Vatican III will have a staff Psychiatrist on call for the Pope. This will be to ensure the Pope has a direct spiritual phone line to Satan."

To Satan, or to his masters in Israel? Or does that matter?

Blogger VD October 06, 2019 3:42 PM  

it won't affect the problem of gay priests which is NOT caused by celibacy.

Expanding the pool of potential priests means less pressure to accept gay ones. It's not about celibacy causing homosexuality, it's about increasing the percentage of good men available to the priesthood.

Blogger Rightrage October 06, 2019 3:56 PM  

The bible doesn't require you to be married, just to be married to one woman if married. Paul himself says celibacy is to be preferred, John in his revalation says men "undefiled by women" would recieve a greater reward in heaven. The passage your alluding to simply makes the point christians should not have many wives...

Blogger Hammerli 280 October 06, 2019 4:03 PM  

Priestly celibacy was controversial when it was introduced at the Council of Trent in 1069...and today, I definitely think it's time for a rethink.

Perhaps the best option would be not to think in terms of allowing priests to marry, but in terms of allowing married men without minor children to be ordained.

Blogger JaimeInTexas October 06, 2019 4:12 PM  

I attended a Catholic school K to 12.
I left the RCC as an agnostic but became a Christian at 25yo.
I have forgotten much of Catholicism. My opinion is an outsider is also as someone who was in the inside.

I am suspicious of the current pope's motives but that is not a reason to not look into the matter and, perhaps, allow married priests on a broader basis. Plenty of history to draw on as to limitations and organizational pitfalls.

Barnhard stated that the Apostles became, if not already, continent. Based on what?

As to why Christ Jesus did not marry. Jesus came but with one purpose, to die on tbat cross, to rise from the dead on the third day and to ascend to heaven ... to return again at the assigned time. Where is the time to marry? What woukd have been the result of a marriage regarding the wife and most importantly the children, the result of The God incarnate having sex with a created female? What would heve been their nature/ontology, Titans, demi-gods, etc?
Jesus not marrying is a statement against marriage as much as a Navy Seal not taking a wife in the field of operation.

Blogger The Depolrable Podunk Ken Ramsey October 06, 2019 4:26 PM  

VD wrote:Expanding the pool of potential priests means less pressure to accept gay ones. It's not about celibacy causing homosexuality, it's about increasing the percentage of good men available to the priesthood.

I'm sure you won't be surprised, Vox, to hear that the strongest correlation between parishes and the number of vocations they produce might be the degree to which those parishes adhere to traditional views.

The Archdiocese of Los Angeles ordained a whopping grand total of 7 new priests in 2017. Seven! That archdiocese serves 4,000,000 people. Meanwhile, Wichita ordained 10 new priests in 2017, while serving only 150,000 people. This is not an isolated phenomenon in Wichita. Lincoln, NE, for instance, ordained 5 in 2017 with having only 95,000 parishioners. The smaller, more traditional parishes are outperforming the larger, more Vatican II ones.

"Get woke, go broke!" was never truer than when it is applied to churches. Churchians in the Catholic realm are just as poisonous as in the Protestant.

Vatican II is such a horrible catastrophe.



Blogger The Depolrable Podunk Ken Ramsey October 06, 2019 4:36 PM  

JaimeInTexas wrote:

As to why Christ Jesus did not marry. Jesus came but with one purpose, to die on tbat cross, to rise from the dead on the third day and to ascend to heaven ... to return again at the assigned time. Where is the time to marry?


A Catholic teaching on this is that Jesus was, literally, a sacrificial lamb for the sins of Mankind. Therefore He was pure, without blemish, as required by the Old Testament rules regarding sacrifices.

I'm sure that Protestants no doubt have a similar teaching.

But anyway, this teaching does relate celibacy to spiritual purity.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 06, 2019 4:45 PM  

"Barnhard stated that the Apostles became, if not already, continent. Based on what?"

The most charitable interpretation of that is that she's a bit soft-headed on the subject and failed to provide a full chain of reasoning.

Let's just go simple. Scripturally speaking, she has no business trying to teach christian doctrine to men.

Women are naturally mystical thinkers to excess. We can play chicken/egg or caused-fall/caused-by-fall with that all day, in the end the world is now what it is, and God dictated their natural subjection.

Barnhardt doesn't like witches, but that doesn't stop her from acting suspiciously like them.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 06, 2019 5:12 PM  

"The spiritual idea is that a state of celibacy brings one closer to Christ, and it's a very old idea."

Closer to Christ? I wonder. More easily able to serve in the harvest for Heaven, agreed. That much is stated.

"As Catholics we do not, like Protestants, toss out the Magisterium and traditions of our Church."

I respect that and seek better accord.

"That notion was also prevalent in Rome before Christians came, see the Vestal Virgins."

furor kek tonicus' linked Catholic Encyclopedia makes exactly the opposite argument, in that Christians should distance themselves from pagan priesthoods that married. Neither argument is strong or necessarily relevant.

"When Rome fell and the lights went out forever on the dying pagan world, Christians fled TO the monasteries and convents and other celibate communities in the chaos."

To stay permanently in celibate continence? People also commonly commit suicide when in despair. Celibate continence is separation from racial continuity. Racial suicide if enough do it.

"Okay, I'm sure all this falls on tin ears with Protestants"

Having considered exactly this for myself for years, my ears are about the most open you're going to find.

In response to the lines of reasoning in the Catholic Encyclopedia:

#1: How is abandoning one responsibility in favor of another a larger hearted thing to do than bearing both? Heaven > Heaven + 1?

#2: How does the reality, that some are naturally unable to fulfill the duty given by God's first command to living things, absolve those able to fulfill it of the duty? They argue that procreation is no right, and I wonder how they can conclude that it is not a duty. A man is not a plant, and has other capacities, true, however a child isn't a plant either.

#3: If man is not permitted to separate what God has unified, how is it righteous to end the continuity of union of a man who would be a priest in the case of a man who was already married? How is this not an inversion of the meaning of continence?

#4: If contraceptives are immoral, how are the lines of reasoning I argue against in #2 and #3 conscionable?

My conclusion so far is that when the time is come that nothing further sown may be harvested, a priesthood in complete celibate continence is in perfect accord. Until then, that requirement is discordant, in that by further sowing we imitate God, and might add to the bounty of Heaven.

Blogger Steve Canyon October 06, 2019 5:20 PM  

I'd be more open to married priests if churchians like the Osteens et al weren't so prolific. The unordained with more clout than the ordained doesn't bode well for a religious institution.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 06, 2019 5:25 PM  

"The unordained with more clout than the ordained doesn't bode well for a religious institution."

Ordination is pointless where it leads to that result.

Blogger JaimeInTexas October 06, 2019 5:43 PM  

From https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/st-paul-and-priestly-celibacy

(snip)
"Priests, bishops, and consecrated men religious can also see themselves as espoused to the Lord their beloved."
(snip)
"In this sense, all Christians are “feminine” or receptive in their relationship with Jesus, our divine Savior, as the biblical Song of Songs poetically affirms."
(snip)


This nonsense. Makes you wonder? A view that may explain the feminization of so many of the visible chorches.

Blogger papabear October 06, 2019 5:52 PM  

(
(snip)
"Priests, bishops, and consecrated men religious can also see themselves as espoused to the Lord their beloved."
(snip)
"In this sense, all Christians are “feminine” or receptive in their relationship with Jesus, our divine Savior, as the biblical Song of Songs poetically affirms.")

Leon Podles criticizes the development of Latin spirituality in this regard

Blogger cyrus83 October 06, 2019 5:53 PM  

The crisis in vocations is a crisis in faith, and a similar problem exists in all the converged mainline denominations, despite the fact that all of them allow at least married pastors, and many of them allow women or gay pastors. It is very difficult to convince a normal man to sign up to head an SJW-meeting house as his vocation in life.

Catholics are lacking in priests because the faith has been lost or is tepid in many of its parishes, and especially among its bishops. The traditionalists as a result produce far more ordinations per capita than their coreligionists, and when there is the rare bishop with a spine and willing to do more than speak churchian platitudes, vocations do better overall.

I get the idea that allowing married clergy is going to help, but most sane men will not and should not be interested in making a lifetime commitment to a lukewarm church whose leaders don't seem to take its teachings seriously.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 06, 2019 5:55 PM  

"This nonsense."

The first? Might as well say it of all Christians if you wanna play like that.

The second? Not seeing why you find that nonsense. It's stated several other times in other places as well.

Blogger The Depolrable Podunk Ken Ramsey October 06, 2019 5:59 PM  

Azure Amaranthine wrote:"That notion was also prevalent in Rome before Christians came, see the Vestal Virgins."

furor kek tonicus' linked Catholic Encyclopedia makes exactly the opposite argument, in that Christians should distance themselves from pagan priesthoods that married. Neither argument is strong or necessarily relevant.


I stated as evidence for the general notion that a celibate state has been viewed as closer to the holy. The Vestals are evidence of this feeling, and also relevant because they help establish sentiments present in the ancient world in the days of the Early Church. By no means is this advocating that pagan practices ought to be incorporated into Christian ones. 'Catholic' means universal, and a problem of interest not only today but especially among the Early Church was the search for Christian principles in the time before Christ, and among the multitude of religious cults of the day. Virgil, for instance, as the "Messianic Pagan Poet" who died before he knew of Christ, but was yet seen to pre-figure Christ prophetically in his poetry.

I was pointing out that this notion of celibacy as a closer state to the holy is not just old, it's really, really, really old. And it was the lay of the land.

Christ Himself was celibate, according to our tradition at least.

Azure Amaranthine wrote:"When Rome fell and the lights went out forever on the dying pagan world, Christians fled TO the monasteries and convents and other celibate communities in the chaos."

To stay permanently in celibate continence? People also commonly commit suicide when in despair. Celibate continence is separation from racial continuity. Racial suicide if enough do it.


Edward Gibbon wouldn't disagree. He blamed the rise of Christianity for the fall of Rome. He may be correct. It's clear that the rise of Christianity presented a number of problems for the pagan empire. It's also clear that Christians predicted and expected the fall of empire, too.

As to the rest, I'm not going there. I'm not arguing theology here. Just putting out the traditional Catholic position. That's all.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 06, 2019 6:02 PM  

"Just putting out the traditional Catholic position. That's all."

My thanks.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd October 06, 2019 6:26 PM  

A denomination might survive a celibate clergy, or it might survive a married clergy, but no Christian denomination will survive an apostate clergy.

Clean out your apostates, and then you could leave celibacy or marriage to the consciences of your clergy.

Blogger Crazy Dave October 06, 2019 6:30 PM  

the solution is not a married clergy. the answer to the problem of sodomite priests lies in the reform of the seminaries. the church HAS very clear directives with regards the admittance of homosexuals for training to the priesthood: they weren't allowed period.

the clergy crisis is a manufactured one on the part of the Bishops. the hierarchy has always been the root cause of every crisis in the church.

Reform the seminary --> reform the priesthood

Blogger Ominous Cowherd October 06, 2019 6:42 PM  

@122, clean out the apostates and most of these other problems take care of themselves. It's a little more difficult for the Romans, since the "infallible" hierarchy is converged and apostate. It's the downside to central control.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 06, 2019 6:54 PM  

VD wrote:Expanding the pool of potential priests means less pressure to accept gay ones.
The pressure to accept gay priests has nothing to do with the number of candidates. It has everything to do with ideology. They were accepting these men while turning away faithful committed masculine men on the basis of "rigidity", i.e., believing the doctrine of the Church. Many dioceses in the 1970s turned the priest selection process over to embittered lesbian feminist nuns.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd October 06, 2019 7:07 PM  

Many dioceses in the 1970s turned the priest selection process over to embittered lesbian feminist nuns.

So much fail in so few words. The rot had already gone deep, or there wouldn't have been any such critters, let alone any thought of letting them have authority.

I'll pray for your denomination, Snidely.

Blogger JaimeInTexas October 06, 2019 7:13 PM  

@124
Is there something that you can recommend re. nuns involvement in priest selection process?

Blogger Glaivester October 06, 2019 7:37 PM  

here is something i have been thinking about for awhile, the connection between droit de seigneur (eldest son going into military) and the second son going into the church.

Uh - that's not what droit de seigneur means. I think you mean something to do with primogeniture.

Blogger Pathfinderlight October 06, 2019 8:35 PM  

SJW/Communist takeover attempts are nothing new to the Catholic Church. Sexual abuse is probably the biggest warning sign we've discussed so far. Ones I haven't seen discussed are the fact that the monastic orders are being included in a Bishop's conference. For those of you who don't know, the earliest successful subversions of the church targeted monks and nuns. They gained lots of unofficial power, then started pushing for official power under JP2. The response to this is how Cardinal Ratzinger (the future B16) got his nickname of God's Rottweiler.

Now, for those paying attention to detail, once the conference documents reference "the spirit of Vatican 2", you can be sure they are the result of the convergence. Catholics have been lectured on the spirit of Vatican 2 for decades. It's actual meaning is "Vatican 2 doesn't actually say this, but we want to pretend it did, so just put up with what we're telling you". In other words, a fake authority argument that has become common on the left. For non-catholics paying attention to this, reading it that way will help things make sense.

Blogger JaimeInTexas October 06, 2019 8:39 PM  

The ministry is a calling of God, not conscription by men.

Blogger John Rockwell October 06, 2019 9:38 PM  

I'd say AIDs was one of the best things to happen to the Catholic church. It served the function of clearing out many of the sodomites.

And it would have been worse without it.

Blogger Newscaper312 October 06, 2019 9:49 PM  

@127 and the earler post
First born son inherited the title to the land. He is expected to learn to fight, and raise troops to lend or lead in service to the crown, but his primary responsibility to be be next lord.
Second and third sons, etc, might become officers in in a national army or that of a higher noble (and if serve well might earn their own small title some day), or might join the church. Three options, not two.

Blogger xevious2030 October 06, 2019 10:12 PM  

It isn’t a pattern of preference. If there are gays mock ordained as priests, that’s a problem. If pedos are mock ordained as priests, that’s a problem. That it is being discussed, the mock ordination of women, that’s a problem. When the Church admin do not remove an anti-Pope, that’s a problem. Good odds they’re tares, good odds they’’ll burn, don’t let them lead you or your loved ones astray. They aren’t much different than the many people not wearing a frock.

Blogger The Pitchfork Rebel October 07, 2019 12:01 AM  

There are pluses and minuses to married priests. Of course, they already exist as exceptions, especially among Eastern Rites and converted Anglicans and Lutherans.

This one believes the present norm should remain:


https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/commentary/2017/03/21/i-m-a-married-catholic-priest-who-thinks-priests-shouldn-t-get-married/

I have a relative by marriage whose Methodist Pastor was caught in an affair with a woman he counseled. It was incredibly destructive to the congregation.
A friend once told me about his congregation where the prevailing opinion was the Mrs. acted like the "vice pastor" (that's second in command, not something else).

I think a better clergy (of any stripe) will come from men who've had a little time doing something else before attending their priestly or ministerial training.

There's no panacea. All clergy must be drawn from frail and finite human beings, not angels unfortunately.

Blogger Vulgar_Display October 07, 2019 12:03 AM  

Not allowing the priesthood is akin to allowing our religion to continually die a slow death.

If the rough estimate of 450,000 catholic priests all had 3 children (they should be having 6+) there would be 1.35 million more people raised by godly men in the world. I cannot imagine any argument that outweigh such a boon to the number of Christians in the world. If all those good Catholics reproduced like the amish the growth would be astounding.

I saw several people talking about the "wild preacher's kid" being a a good reason for them not to have families. That is retarded bullshit. Anyone who has a child with free will can have a bad apple, but if you were an actual Christian you would understand that it's not for you to judge the child or the priest.

Every wild "pastor's kid" I have known is now married with great families and a strong connections to god after they found their way back to Jesus.

Blogger furor kek tonicus ( 'A Pillowed Dawn', the Boomer Horror movie ) October 07, 2019 12:19 AM  

119. The Depolrable Podunk Ken Ramsey October 06, 2019 5:59 PM
Christ Himself was celibate, according to our tradition at least.


i think Gnostics are the only major strain of thought with any pretensions to be Christian that ever make the case otherwise.

and, given that Jesus knew that he had been sent as a sacrifice, it would hardly have been proper for him to take a woman to wife.


regarding Hebrew Law and sexual abstinence, Leviticus forbids intercourse with a woman who is menstruating, this making the man unclean for a minimum of 7 days.

therefore, any large group of men who are purported to be consecrated for a purpose cannot be engaging in sex with their wives as many of them would find themselves engaging with their wives at the beginning or end of the cycle and thence be prohibited from participating for an entire week.

note that a man who issues his seed is also considered 'unclean', but only until the evening after he cleanses himself. and it's not simply sex, but ANY issuance of the seed ( presumably nocturnal emissions are included here ) which renders him unclean.

what happens to men who don't have 'release' on a somewhat regular basis?

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+15&version=KJV

Blogger Eric I. Gatera. October 07, 2019 2:31 AM  

"Considerably more troubling is the possibility that this Amazonian synod will be used to push the ordainment of women, which would mark the beginning of the end of the Roman Catholic Church."

I agree that it could be the end if it would ever be put in motion but it won't! This is not sheer optimism but because of the Church Magisterium that limit official innovation. Here is one such Magisterium decreed by a recent Pope:

"Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church's divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful."

Source: http://w2.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/apost_letters/1994/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_19940522_ordinatio-sacerdotalis.html

Blogger Johannmon October 07, 2019 3:43 AM  

Biblically a married clergy is supported, and my experience is that few men have the gift of celibacy (i.e. they struggle with lust). However, it wouldn't be surprising if priestly marriage in the RCC was a stalking horse to bring women priests in. Such a thing is being attempted in the SBC by people like Beth Moore, although there the stalking horse is a sexual abuse scandal.

As for the Eastern Orthodox being a stalwart of Biblical fidelity, most of their churches remain in the World Council of Churches along with the mainline protestants who long ago gave up the ghost.

Blogger John October 07, 2019 4:09 AM  

An unmarried celibate priest is free from a wife's influence and can proclaim the truth of Jesus Christ without having to worry about what she is going to say when he gets home.

Blogger Daniele Grech Pereira October 07, 2019 5:03 AM  

If I'm not mistaken, if one becomes a deacon BEFORE being married, he is not allowed to be married afterward. If one is married before becoming a deacon, then he stays married. I know this because my neighbour was a deacon at my church. While I always thought I would like to be a deacon after marriage, I think I'd rather wait it out until we start up the Templars again.

Blogger Daniele Grech Pereira October 07, 2019 5:06 AM  

If they start turning ladies into fake priests, I think we all know our job is to seduce and impregnate them constantly to keep them the hell away from the pulpit.

Blogger JaimeInTexas October 07, 2019 7:18 AM  

@135

I thought we are under the New Covenant, presumably the RCC too?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 07, 2019 11:17 AM  

@141,
Forget it Jaime, it's VP comments section.

Blogger DonReynolds October 07, 2019 11:49 AM  

I only wanted to make a single point in this discussion....they already have married Roman Catholic priests. I thought it was very odd at the time, that there was no publicity of this important decision.

The Church of England and the Roman Catholic Church have been involved in negotiations and discussions (for decades) regarding re-unification of the two churches separated at the time of Henry VIII. Of course in matters of this kind, things proceed at glacial rates and most of time it appears to be so slow that the ordinary person cannot notice anything moving.

Here is the gist, part of the agreed upon tiny baby step was an exchange of priests, a bit of cross-pollination with a certain number of Episcopalian priests became Roman Catholic priests and some Roman Catholic priests became Episcopalian priests. Nearly all of the Episcopalian priests were married, as I recall, when they were ordained as Roman Catholic priests. It would have been practical for the Roman Catholic church to offer up those of their own who were contemplating leaving the priesthood, because they were in love and wanted to get married. All seems neat and tidy, except for one thing...the Church of England does ordain women as priests. I know this because St. Davids in Austin, Texas, had at least two from time to time.

I can see this as a good excuse for the Roman Catholic church to end up with married men and women as priests as a consequence of unification with the Church of England. Then the Roman Catholic church could shrug their shoulders and say their old rules on celibate clergy (and ordaining women) was no longer workable and certainly no longer necessary and the "Episcopalians made us do it".....but the end result would be the same.

Blogger Oswald October 07, 2019 12:02 PM  

Anything this pope comes up with would not surprise me including gay priests being allowed to marry.

Blogger Jason October 07, 2019 2:29 PM  

"..which would mark the beginning of the end of the Roman Catholic Church." The jews said the same thing on Good Friday. The gates of hell will not prevail. The Church has been around 2000+ years and is having its Good Friday moment. We were forewarned with Fatima.

Blogger JaimeInTexas October 09, 2019 12:46 PM  

https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/fetzen-fliegen/item/4625-violating-the-first-commandment-synodal-style

Violating the First Commandment - Synodal style
Written by Kathy Clubb

Idol worship was on full display in preparation for the Pan-Amazon synod, with the tacit approval of Pope Francis. Although the Synod hadn’t yet started, the celebration of pagan ceremonies added weight to the concerns being voiced by prominent prelates and laymen that the Synod will be a vehicle for apostasy. Accusations of narrow-mindedness and even racism were thrown at faithful Catholics who were left shocked and outraged as the videos showing the rituals circulated on social media, along with suggestions that this outrage was nothing more than a Protestant style condemnation of the worshipping of graven images.

The first ritual was a garden ceremony that was ostensibly a dedication of the synod to St Francis. Although the Vatican did not organise the event, officials were invited to attend. Indigenous attendees literally worshipped the earth and bowed down before idols of fertility goddesses, as Pope Francis and his cardinals watched the 90-minute ceremony in its entirety. The Pope also joined in the planting of a holm oak from Assisi - the tree was meant to symbolise ‘integral ecology’. For the occasion, soil had been brought in from various locations around the globe to denote injustices which occurred there. The crimes of human-trafficking and landowner-murder rated a mention, but there was nothing of the deaths of the millions of babies killed through abortion each year.

The ritual was led by an indigenous woman, a concerning message at a time when there is such a strong push from some sectors for women priests, and when the Synod is suspected of being the vehicle to deliver this unwelcome innovation. She presented the pope with some gifts, including a tucum ring - a symbol of liberation theology - while an indigenous man presented the carved image of a naked, pregnant woman.

(snip)

Blogger Laramie Hirsch October 10, 2019 11:47 PM  

I've speculated on my blog for the past month that Pope Francis has parallel characteristics to the Beast of Revelations that comes out of the ocean. The Second Beast.

It's interesting, because for a long time, people thought it was the first Beast who would be the pope. But, looking at Scriptures and then looking over at the daily news, it appears the other way around.

If/When Benedict or some guy we consider pope is rushed out of the Vatican amidst a mob burning of Rome, and we see two suns in the sky, the time for worrying about Trump, Democrats, your house payment, and all that sort of thing will be over.

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