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Saturday, November 02, 2019

Mailvox: the moronic angle

It seems even long-time commenters here never learn to stop clinging to their false assumptions when I call them into question:
Vox, the Chinese are communist butchers. They are no more moral than we are. They are just as much sadistic murderers as the worst of the paper Americans or PP demons. They have slaughtered at least as many or more of their own people as America has killed unborn children. I don't know what your UHIQ angle is here, but I'd sure love to know. If you don't have an angle here, you are dead fucking wrong about the Chinese.
Look,  everyone needs to simply get over their childhood upbringings and drop their kneejerk moronics. I know far more about Chinese history and culture than most of the readers here, as those who live there and speak the language can testify, even though my focus as an East Asian Studies major was on Japan. And my exposure to YouTube has not heightened my tolerance for the clueless ignorati that knows absolutely nothing about a subject in question attempting to 'correct" me.

 The China today is not the China of 221 BC or 1973 AD. The Chinese leadership today has less in common with Mao than Obama did with Eisenhower. It is simply risible how self-appointed foreign policy experts who don't even have passports go from blathering about how Europe is lost to the way China is doomed, blithely serene in their confidence that the USA will always be the greatest, wealthiest, most free country forever and ever, world without end.

Xi is not Deng is not Mao. It is readily apparent to even the most casual observer that China and the USA are on different moral trajectories. One society is trying to encourage people to get married, take pride in their nation, and stop spitting in public, the other is trying to encourage drag queen reading hour, soldiers in heels, and surgical sexual mutilation. One society is punishing those who have a servile attitude to foreign countries, the other has made it a criminal offense to criticize or refuse to buy from a certain foreign country. One society is proudly nationalist, the other silences, disemploys, and attacks its nationalists.

I further note that George Soros considers Xi Jinping the most dangerous enemy to his satanic globalist ideology. Not the Pope, not Orban, not Trump, not even Putin, but Xi.

One society is observably assembling the building blocks for sustainable success, the other is actively tearing apart its foundations. And it doesn't require UHQ to determine, on that basis, which society is currently favored by the probabilities. It's long past time to get over the 1970s and Boomer fears about "the ChiComs and Russkies".

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159 Comments:

Blogger Sargent.matrim November 02, 2019 7:42 AM  

Yep. It's not about China being perfect. It's about China showing clear signs of heading in the right direction, while the USA (and my country Australia) are moving in the wrong direction.

When two people have nice trees and one person is watering theirs and the other is hacking at the roots of his, then it's not hard to predict who will have the healthier tree in 10, 20, of even 50 years, if trends continue in the same direction.

Blogger ArthurTintagel November 02, 2019 7:46 AM  

China is persecuting Christians and introducing mark of the beast tech via facial recognition scans. Not the best nation to idolize just because the international bankers are propping them up right now.

Blogger McChuck November 02, 2019 7:47 AM  

This isn't complicated, people. China has taken a good, hard look at globalism, and decided to be China.

Blogger JAG November 02, 2019 7:49 AM  

It's as if the Chinese have been observing the cultural and national disasters in Western countries, and are choosing more wisely for their own.

Put aside all past atrocities, successes, failings, and ideologies. Once you do that just read again this paragraph from Vox's entry:

One society is trying to encourage people to get married, take pride in their nation, and stop spitting in public, the other is trying to encourage drag queen reading hour, soldiers in heels, and surgical sexual mutilation. One society is punishing those who have a servile attitude to foreign countries, the other has made it a criminal offense to criticize or refuse to buy from a certain foreign country. One society is proudly nationalist, the other silences, disemploys, and attacks its nationalists.

Hard truth.

There is still time to turn it around, but the paradigm better shift PDQ.

Blogger Ransom Smith November 02, 2019 7:54 AM  

China is persecuting Christians
They're not anymore. They have an official church now.
The issue more so is westernized Christianity that the Eastern mindset has always been opposed to.

Blogger Rowan November 02, 2019 7:57 AM  

Sailed right over head, there.

Blogger Rick November 02, 2019 7:58 AM  

“ the other is trying to encourage drag queen reading hour, soldiers in heels, and surgical sexual mutilation”

The Other is in the minority and desperate — and moving way to fast. It’s backfiring. Pendulum is just picking up speed. They’re being drawn out of the woodwork and the shadows.

Trust the Plan.
Patriots are in Control.

Blogger ArthurTintagel November 02, 2019 8:00 AM  

@5 Christianity is western civilization, but their gooky dooky leader is so blasphemous he would rather have churches worship him instead by putting paintings of him next to Jesus.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 02, 2019 8:01 AM  

Here's how it works on a cultural cycle:

-The current power weakens, like an old growth forest sickening with disease or pest.
-The current power loses its grip.
-"Barbarians" burn everything to the ground, because that's the only way to get the rot and weakness out.
-The survivors are the stronger and taint-free, or admixed with the barbarians who are at least baseline wilderness survival level, which is higher than that of most of the former power....
-The survivors rebuild, re-establish.
-The new culture grows in power, flourishes.
-The new culture has it good enough that the good men start to weaken. The evil seek power and find the doors open to it.
-The evil start expending/adulterating the human infrastructure to light the fires of empire. Reach is not beyond grasp, but is beyond perpetual endurance. The rot has entered the forest.
-The fires of empire burn the rot out of surrounding cultures.
-Eventually they've tempered their surrounding cultures enough that they won't burn any more. Cycle complete.

Granted, more cultures than not skip the imperial phase and go straight to getting burned by the barbarians from another nearby culture that is already in that phase.

China got their shit burnt already. Referring to those mass murders? That's the barbarians burning the old forest. They're entering the flourishing phase now.

Blogger thechortling November 02, 2019 8:01 AM  

Which titles would you recommend to help reform such illiterati?

(not that I believe that such recommendations will cure but it might set them on the path to recovery?)

Blogger Rowan November 02, 2019 8:04 AM  

Anti-Russian hysterics were a way of life when I was a child. Russian = Communist, everyone knew that!

Now, Russia is no longer communist, and is turning towards its faith and traditions, and we’re still supposed to fear and hate them. /scratching head

Ditto China and their human rights abuses. The world is being turned on it’s head, but people won’t let go of old programming or try to see with their own eyes.

“People can change and become better!” That’s the mantra I see floated about by so many kumbayahists. People *should* change...as long as they change the way we want them to, damnit. China is changing direction, but it isn’t making “the them” happy. Good enough reason to admire China. Let China be China.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 02, 2019 8:05 AM  

"Trust the Plan.
Patriots are in Control."


I'll have faith in God, and then perhaps kin.

Anything I can't see, I'd rather ensure myself than find out that good men were too hard to find. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

"Christianity is western civilization"

Set reversal. Western Civ rests on Christianity, not the other way around.

Blogger FrankNorman November 02, 2019 8:11 AM  

I think VD is saying things like "China is taking steps to strengthen their society for the future" and some people are thinking he means "China is totally wonderful and everything they do is good."

Some people need to stop being so all-or-nothing in their thinking.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan November 02, 2019 8:14 AM  

All them smart spergs bashing China won't have enough sense to throw that in the Left's faces. Conservatives would literally starve to death even if they were locked in a fully stocked grocery store unless the Left was there shoving food down its gullet.

Conservative spergies please stop tailgating the Left and tailgating in general.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 02, 2019 8:14 AM  

It sometimes happens that people prophesy without knowing it. Sometimes not so much:

"I am the punishment of God...If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you."

"Heaven grew weary of the excessive pride and luxury of China... I am from the Barbaric North. I wear the same clothing and eat the same food as the cowherds and horse-herders. We make the same sacrifices and we share.. our riches. I look upon the nation as a new-born child and I care for my soldiers as though they were my brothers."

-Ghengis Khan.

Blogger MNW November 02, 2019 8:18 AM  

To the Chinese the last 250 years is a blip in their history and they are regaining the regional and cultural dominance they enjoyed for the previous thousands of years.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 02, 2019 8:18 AM  

Has China been proud or extravagant recently? If so, not compared to us.

Blogger VD November 02, 2019 8:19 AM  

Not the best nation to idolize just because the international bankers are propping them up right now.

What nation would you recommend that we idolize? And why idolize any nation any nation at all?

Blogger Andy Evick November 02, 2019 8:20 AM  

Imagine thinking most of the Chinese population grew up under the exact same circumstances as Jiang Zemin or any others from that generation. Times change.

Blogger Lovekraft November 02, 2019 8:22 AM  

There's the concept that eliminating one's enemy doesn't get rid of that opposition, but simply restructures the dynamic. There will always be a north and south, in other words. So we have the western whites with an unsurpassed history being constantly beaten down by the Obamas and Soroses of the world. On the ropes.

Africa and the Middle East are like hand-wringing spectators waiting to invade any weakened husk and skim off the best and brightest. Or just doing what they always do and perpetuate governmental/societal disfunction and enmity.

Where does China fit in? I get along very well with asians because I see them as fellow targets of the Obama/Soros rackets. Much preferable allies when it comes to cold efficiency than the WorldStar Common Core debacle that represents modern western culture.

Blogger ZhukovG November 02, 2019 8:22 AM  

For some people it will always be 1970.

Blogger Al From Bay Shore November 02, 2019 8:26 AM  

Would I be out of line if I were to say that I kinda understand why China has incarcerated some segments of its Muslim population? I'm sorta understanding the relationship between a healthy nation and the maintenance of some semblance of cultural uniformity.

The "anything goes" brand of libertarianism is not entirely healthy. My limited knowledge leads me to entertain the idea that such a thing should be framed within the context of "American", and "American" is framed in the context of Western Civ. - the Greco-Roman, Christendom, and that whole "Renaissance/ Age of Reason" thingy. These things have eroded and that erosion has been a disaster.

China seems to be doing the kinds of things to maintain it's cultural foundations (and sense of general morality) to avoid what America is descending into.

Unlike America, the Chinese do not see their nation and national sense as an idea. Instead, they see themselves as a tangible identity upon which the idea is founded. I could be wrong.

Blogger Nickels for Nancy November 02, 2019 8:27 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 02, 2019 8:30 AM  

Better yet, Soros is calling China the biggest enemy because of facial recognition and social credit.

Here's something a lot of people can't seem to get past: Freedom isn't objectively good.

While evil is in control, freedom from it is good.

While good is in control, slavery to it is most preferable.

Obviously I don't like the ideas of automated facial recognition and social credit... because I intuitively know that the people who would be using them where I live would be ruled by evil. Who can speak for China?

They're inherently a low-trust people. In their context social credit might very well be a necessary cultural glue. It's a means of separating wheat from chaff. If they keep the wheat and reject the chaff, is that not good?

If man does not praise God, the silicon will. If freedom is used only for evil, it will be eliminated.

Blogger Silent Draco November 02, 2019 8:31 AM  

This is why I was disturbed by "Killing Commendatore". I enjoyed it greatly, but also had a lot of other duties pick up at the end of summer. Maybe soon I can pick up at the bookmark. Some disturbance was the subject material, but most was the revelation and understanding that I was reading about idioms, customs, and motivations of a very different culture. Some of the mechanical trappings were the same, but understanding the cultural and people differences would take deep study and immersion. At best, I can observe and attempt to understand from outside.

To an outsider, Chinese civilization tripod appears to be Confucianism, respect for elders and ancestors, and belief in the Han as a superior race. China, to an outside observer, appears to pause and consider thousands of years of history, then make decide to reject outside influence of foreign devils - including Bolsheviks. Xi acts imperial but without the overblown ceremony and dissipation of the Mandarin class. An emperor can be reasoned with and negotiated with, finding mutual boundaries to maintain sway inside these. This takes time and displays of power, to find Thucydides' core of interest, dear, and prestige.

Western civilization tripod was Greek philosophy, Roman law and patriarchy, and Christianity - until ours was cut away and corroded by outside actors. Pray for the strength and courage to do what's necessary to recover these.

Blogger Doktor Jeep November 02, 2019 8:32 AM  

Ah China.
I can't think of a better nation capable for bringing Africa into the 21st century.
The Russians have also tried to encourage having children, BTW.
Muh Russian and Chinese Boogeyman!
Sometimes I think of getting a hammer and chisel and carving "because of boomers and Jews" into large stones so that when the ruins of America are unearthed the scholars will know the truth.

Blogger Stilicho November 02, 2019 8:34 AM  

Xi is a reformer. China has a long history of systemic corruption. Xi won't be able to get rid of that, but he may be successful in directing it inward so that it is a Chinese corruption that mostly excludes foreign influence. Balanced against that is china's effort to expand its reach and power economically and militarily. With any such expansion comes foreign interaction and influence. The Japanese shoguns recognized the threat and chose isolation. It worked for a long while. Empire destroyed Sparta. Rome made it last longer, but Roman ceased to mean anything during the imperial period and it too fell to internal corruption.

Xi obviously sees the danger since it has played out before his eyes for the last 40 years. Can he stop the decadence? No. Can he reduce it? Yes. His success will be inversely proportional to Chinese economic and military expansion. It will be a difficult balancing act.

Blogger andrisf November 02, 2019 8:38 AM  

Totalitarian societies can NEVER be moral, end of story.
Moral societies value individual (yes, yes groups matter etc) and rights of the individual. China does not value individual (unless you are Xi or some of his henchmen) at all, you can get disappeared, not from twitter or facebook but from your home forever and nobody will find you.
You can be taken to some undisclosed location and things will be done to you after which you will keep your mouth shut. I personally prefer to be banned from twitter, rather then my fingernails pulled.

Yes in some sense Vox is right, there has been brewing something truly demonic in west and messing with children gender is beyond horrifying, but in the end it is not yet that far gone and can be reversed ( i hope), Chinas government machine can not.
As for the army, then Chinas army is utter trash, they have NEVER had any military tradition and last real war China had was in 1980, when it tried to invade Vietnam and got beaten SO BADLY SO QUICKLY it was shock to Chinese themselves, even tho they are used to losing shitloads of people. And war before that was attack on Russian river island, where casualties were about 10000:1 in favor or Russians.
In short i will take army of degenerate transgenders over Chinese army any day and without good army you can not really sustain and prosper civilization ( as China has learned over and over again).
Also that sustainable success looks rather differently if you understand how much it is dependent on foreign markets, not to mention the fact that last statistics in world anyone should believe are Chinese.

Blogger Lazarus November 02, 2019 8:44 AM  

During a visit to the Nepalese capital Kathmandu in October, Chinese President Xi Jinping issued an ominous warning, saying “Anyone attempting to split China in any part of the country will end in crushed bodies and shattered bones.”

I think he's serious.

Duterte 2024

Blogger Rick November 02, 2019 8:45 AM  

In the coming collapse, will the Amish even blink?

(Their population is growing by 5% per year for a while now.)

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 02, 2019 8:49 AM  

"Totalitarian societies can NEVER be moral, end of story."

Irrelevant. Also false. See, you're part of the freedumb crowd. You think freedom is objectively good.

"Moral societies value individual (yes, yes groups matter etc) and rights of the individual."

There's a drastic difference between valuing something and worshiping it as a supreme object.

"China does not value individual (unless you are Xi or some of his henchmen) at all, you can get disappeared, not from twitter or facebook but from your home forever and nobody will find you."

So what? If they're closer to the optimal balance than us they're still better than us.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 02, 2019 8:50 AM  

Or perhaps you just think that your own personal freedom is objectively good, a-la solipsism.

Blogger Shane Bradman November 02, 2019 8:55 AM  

It's definitely an older generation issue where they can't comprehend change in other countries.

@28. Totalitarian societies can be moral. Byzantium was a theocracy and it lasted for over 1000 years. The Holy Roman Empire was governed strictly and also lasted for 1000 years. They were not functionally totalitarian for their entire history, but they had a very significant emphasis on authority.

Blogger Andy Evick November 02, 2019 8:56 AM  

"Freedom isn't objectively good."

Bears repeating.

Blogger andrisf November 02, 2019 8:59 AM  

@33
Do not mistake authority for morality. It truly is hard to find more immoral society then Byzantium, the backstabbing, treachery of Byzantium empire is truly almost unmatched.

Blogger borsabil November 02, 2019 8:59 AM  

The American Empire is the centre of globohomo. A river of toxic sludge spews out off their coastal cities to infect the world, especially the west, with degenerate filth. As a non American white Christian I pray for the day when the Empire falls, hopefully to be replaced by something better.

I've been to China many times and I've been to the United States, China is far more free and stable. It's an actual coherent nation not a multicultural/ multi ethnic empire. I'm sad that the European peoples are losing their once dominant position, but we deserve it. Roll on the Chinese, it can't be worse than American hegemony.

Blogger VD November 02, 2019 9:02 AM  

In short i will take army of degenerate transgenders over Chinese army any day.

You are clearly not one of us.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 02, 2019 9:04 AM  

"It truly is hard to find more immoral society then Byzantium, the backstabbing, treachery of Byzantium empire is truly almost unmatched."

Modern America. See, that wasn't hard. Granted, Byzantium may very well have been worse towards the end, but on average? (X)Doubt.

Blogger Shane Bradman November 02, 2019 9:11 AM  

@35. Every empire sucks towards the end. The Roman Empire was so awful at the end that it was a blessing for Alaric the Great to fuck their shit up. But the late stages are not the totality. Would you shit on all of America's history just because the last 50 years have been in decline? Granted, there are very valid arguments to shit on all of American history, but Americans almost always look at the glass half full when it comes to their own nation.
I would happily live in the Second Reich under the authoritarian dictator Otto von Bismarck rather than Ancapistan where children are sold as sex slaves and people are being killed for control of a well. Freedom is not the antidote to every solution. That is a freemason lie.

Blogger Rek. November 02, 2019 9:11 AM  

Almost everyday I wish I were more intelligent, smarter and wiser.

Then I come on here and I wonder how come I who isnt that bright understand most always everything VD says and has to say while at the same some snarky moron wants to prove Vox how wrong he supposedly is.

Blogger Shane Bradman November 02, 2019 9:13 AM  

@40. If you know you're not that smart you will never find yourself making smartboy errors.

Blogger Brett baker November 02, 2019 9:16 AM  

More like 1955, but true.

Blogger Avalanche November 02, 2019 9:19 AM  

@27 Now re-do your comment about the U.S. and Trump as Xi: I think it would fit pretty well except for:

"china's effort to expand its reach and power economically and militarily."

which maybe should be:
the U.S.'s effort to contract its reach and direct toward itself its power economically and militarily.

History echoes?

Blogger Ransom Smith November 02, 2019 9:22 AM  

Christianity is western civilization
Western Civilization is built upon Christianity.
But the Eastern world has known Christianity much longer than much of the west.
Daniel helped build the foundation during the days of Babylon.

Blogger JAG November 02, 2019 9:24 AM  

Rek. wrote:Almost everyday I wish I were more intelligent, smarter and wiser.

Then I come on here and I wonder how come I who isnt that bright understand most always everything VD says and has to say while at the same some snarky moron wants to prove Vox how wrong he supposedly is.



Emotion often overrules intelligence. Some are getting caught up in the emotional outrage of China's sins. This then clouds judgment, and they cannot see the facts concerning which nation is taking steps to survive into the future rather than pulling a Sodom & Gomorrah in a decade or two.

Blogger Azimus November 02, 2019 9:28 AM  

The main problem most people have w/Xi is the same problem young women have w/delta's - he's not perfect and they want and deserve someone perfect. If I've learned anything here in my years of coming here, its that choices come as a package - you pick a platform that you like, and it necessarily comes with some attendant unpleasantries. For example controlling immigration - there's no way in 2019 not to be branded a racist if you publically come out supporting any kind of border control. Its just going to happen. If you choose to follow Christ, a gigantic percentage of the population will call you a knuckle-dragging moron. Its just going to happen. In fact with Christ himself, the Pharisees, disciples, indeed all of Israel was looking for a king - but a conquering, Romans slaughtering king. They chose unwisely as a people because they package wasn't perfect in their minds.

So coming back to China and Xi, he's not perfect. He's not your own personally preferred blend of Ron Paul, George Patton, and Patrick Henry. To use the 19 year old girl metaphor, he's not rich, tall, smart, good looking and funny, but he posessss some measure of all these things. So stop being a 19 year old girl and realize Xi for his imperfections may be worth your support.

Blogger Shane Bradman November 02, 2019 9:32 AM  

@45. How many babies are aborted per year in America? Give me the number then shut up about how China is totally evil.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother November 02, 2019 9:35 AM  

Shane, according to this website I found, official reported rates are America 19.6 abortions per 1000
China 19.2 abortions per 1000

These are official rates. What's the real story? Who knows.

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/abortion-rates-by-country/

Blogger Shane Bradman November 02, 2019 9:36 AM  

@47. Reminds me of what Sleepy Doctor Ben Carson said back in the primaries. You don't have to agree 100% with someone to back them. Trump has his faults, but we back him anyway. Xi Jinping and Putin very obviously kill people and have a fair few faults, but the alternative is annihilation. If spiking some drinks with polonium is the price to pay for restoring Russian culture and becoming independent of the failing globalist system, then let those political opponents drink the polonium.

Blogger Philippe November 02, 2019 9:38 AM  

I totally understand Vox bannishing those gammas. Yet, I think he is way to kind to even answer already. This troll just wrote: "hey Vox, in case you did not know Mao Tse tong killed Chinese people".... This is equivalent of saying "hey Vox, do you know about Hitler and World War 2?".... I can't even make a parody of that guy

Blogger Shannon November 02, 2019 9:44 AM  

China has had its ups and downs as empire also. They’ve sclerotic corrupt mandarin rulership in their past history and they’ve survived and are on a positive Elliot Wave mood swing. The United States Empire is going to be held for account and it will get ugly. America will hopefully come out on the other side like China, like Russia too and be leaner and stronger and wiser. I like to focus on the loooong term. The next couple of generations will be facing the destruction of current empire and be taxed with rebuilding a new nation

Blogger ArthurTintagel November 02, 2019 9:44 AM  

@18 None, we should preserve and reform our own. China is not even socially conservative anyways, they have egalitarianism and that stupid two child policy, both of which ruin people's abilities to start families.

I'd give them about twenty years tops until they catch up to the west in terms of values, they already have McDonald's commercials there promoting sodomy.

Blogger Dos Voltz November 02, 2019 9:51 AM  

Bravo. I have many friends and family with military backgrounds. I've tried for years to tell them the same thing about Russia. Putin is not Stalin, etc

"Look, everyone needs to simply get over their childhood upbringings and drop their kneejerk moronics."

Exactly.

Blogger HouellebecqGurl November 02, 2019 9:51 AM  

Being this clueless should be illegal.

Blogger HouellebecqGurl November 02, 2019 9:53 AM  

If by Patriots you mean globalists, then yes, they are def in charge.

Blogger HouellebecqGurl November 02, 2019 9:54 AM  

The whole red scare thing was overblown anyway.

Blogger HouellebecqGurl November 02, 2019 9:57 AM  

If I were them in that situation, I would've gone with a permanent solution to the Uighur problem.

Blogger IAMSpartacus0000 November 02, 2019 9:58 AM  

I am suprised at the people just wishing China is not on the rise. Part of its rise is America's fall. We have recognized this befor. America of the 50s is dead. What America is now is dying. What it rises to is still to be seen.

Some place is going to rise to prominence and right know it looks like China. Does China have issues? Yes. How long will China sit at the too? Who knows. China is rife with corruption and after Poo Bear is gone it could all collapse.

Bible is full of Kingdoms that were built of many moral generations just to have an immoral one tear it down. Heck just look at America. One generation planted the seed while we were a moral nation, only to have a generation reap the whirlwind and bring on our collapse.

China will never fight America. We will go the way of Rome and kill ourselves. I just pray the remnants learn from our Folly and that the Christian Chinese will remember to send missionaries to the lost.

Blogger HouellebecqGurl November 02, 2019 10:01 AM  

My kids' family on their father's side are Old Order Amish. The only thing that will affect them is others coming into their zone in an attempt to harm them. I mean, small things could make things more difficult but not ruin them.

Blogger HouellebecqGurl November 02, 2019 10:04 AM  

You sound like Charlie Kirk. That's not a good thing

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother November 02, 2019 10:06 AM  

There will always be Christians in America.

With a near identical abortion rate, the logical conclusion is that in terms of sheer numbers, many, many more babies are aborted in China than in the US.

Most of them are probably little girls, which ties into Nate's argument of demographic collapse.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch November 02, 2019 10:08 AM  

My favorite scene from The Hunt for Red October is when the crew of the Russian submarine---filled with pride and nationalism---explode into song. They sing proudly their national anthem, and the captain allows it, ignoring suggestions for silence, as an American submarine is nearby.

This scene makes me very happy. It is edifying to watch. I'm not even Russian. I simply take joy in the national pride of others. Why? Because that simple pleasure has been denied me so long.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan November 02, 2019 10:10 AM  

Let China and GloHo fight. May I recommend a book to the spergs here who are in fine detail letting us know all about China, it's called "Riding the Red Horse" and in it some dude named Kratman who other than being a CivNat pussy did write about the Chinese Grand Strategy of "Sitting on a hill watching tigers fight."

Or you can be a conservative sperg and fight everyone and friggin lose.

Blogger lazarus long November 02, 2019 10:16 AM  

Chuckled at drudge the other day: Live pigs used as crash test dummies in China

Blogger James Dixon November 02, 2019 10:25 AM  

> In short i will take army of degenerate transgenders over Chinese army any day...

Which merely demonstrates that you're either historically ignorant or a moron.

> You think freedom is objectively good.

If a people are good, their freedom IS objectively good. If they're not, not so much so. We were a good people once, are we still? That's the issue that's currently playing out.

Look, at the end of this century there will still be a Chinese people and they'll still have a Chinese country. It may not be the same as what they have now, but it'll be Chinese. The cannot be guaranteed for the American people and the United States.

Blogger lions paw November 02, 2019 10:26 AM  

Soros pointing the finger at Xi.
Hmmmmmm. I don't buy it.
He does protesth too much.
Who will be the BEST control freak ?

Wealth has been moving West to East for some time. There is a decided element of kabuki in the Soros v Xi dance.

They deserve each other.

We on the otherhand should encourage the bromance. Go. Go ahead and kabuki it up. Divy up property on the Belt and Road Initiative and perhaps what's left of us can rebuild.


Blogger glueballs November 02, 2019 10:27 AM  

@63 Laramie Hoishe

Red October commemorated the blood-soaked installation of the Soviet Empire under (((Lenin))). You heard the ComIntern, the Communist International (abolishing the very notion of nation), sung by actors portraying mostly ethnic Russians deprived of their Russian nationhood as compelled by indoctrination and a social credit system. Souless automatons really.

Have nice day. - gamma-man who's to say I'll not be spamma'd mon 'cause gamma man ...

Blogger Tars Tarkas November 02, 2019 10:34 AM  

Does China really have that much to worry about in terms of demographics? From what I know, they don't have a massive welfare and retirement system for their old people. As long as you don't start importing people, real estate should collapse in price and family formation becomes cheap as all hell. There is virtually no limit on family size.

Japan is being limited by the age people are living to, but they can't live forever. Sooner or later there will be a demographic collapse as all the Japanese old people die all in a 20 year time frame. The same is bound to happen in China. RE will collapse and young couples will be able to afford a house and a bunch of kids.

The Western Greatest, Silent and Boomers are willing to completely destroy the long term viability of their nations because they wanted to chase cummies and not have kids and bring in foreigners to pay the taxes to support them in old age. They should be euthanized.

Blogger Rick November 02, 2019 10:36 AM  

Is China a high-trust or low-trust society? (Or is the answer: depends where you’re talkin about in China.)

This high-trust/low-trust society lens is an interesting template. Can’t remember where I heard it first; here or from Owen. Anyway, and I think this is true: the Amish are a high-trust society, embedded in a low trust society. But when they interact with the outer one, they become low-trust. Kind of interesting. Also, as diversity increases, low trust increases. And no one ever says WHY diversity is great. They just say that it is. I think I could think of plenty of ways in which non-diversity is better and that John Q pro-diversity guy would agree with it (as long as I don’t use the word diversity).

Blogger Andy Evick November 02, 2019 10:44 AM  

Remember when Polish bishops and President Duda declared Christ King of Poland?

Be like Poland.

Blogger Doktor Jeep November 02, 2019 10:49 AM  

Something that seldom factors into this topic is how different people are more suited for certain kinds of political structure.
The way China is organized and run now, we may find problems with it, but it may well be perfect for the Chinese.
We have to remind people at times that if you removed the black crime from US crime statistics our murder rate is on par with Europe. So perhaps those old gun control laws regarding blacks and immigrants did have some standing to them after all? Consider that the implications of murder over whatever domestic matter weighs far heavier on a man with line and lineage towards civilization compared to someone whose only at best a couple of generations away from hacking a neighbor to death for wearing the bone in his nose the wrong way. The latter is going to have to contend with the "magic bang stick" making things much much easier with no room to think twice.
We hear of the much vaunted "Norwegian Socialism". Yet I recall an article by some Norwegian official speaking of their system and how it is not really any kind of socialism in the context that American leftists put it in, and it's something that only works well for Norwegians.
Back in the 1990s, we were getting a lot of Russian immigrants in New York. We could not help but notice that they were taking welfare checks but had new cars.
So we can sit here and look at China from our vernacular and see it as bad, but may be just the system that the Chinese need. Considering their history or warfare and slaughter, their low trust tendencies, it may be what they need. Political Brawndo.
The USA is a better example though. Richard Spencer was wrong when he said only whites could have built our civilization. The truth is, only Anglos were able to build it. As soon as the Italians, Jews, Irish, and Slavs got off the boat, they started to game it. Germans and Dutch simply learned to operate within it and did well.

Now our much hallowed Constitution is weighed down by countless pages of Talmudic interpretation. What we ended up with is a system that does not work for anybody except grifters, lawyers, and criminals. I repeat myself.

We can boomeristically try to treat this as a problem we could solve in one episode then "get on with our lives" which to me appears to be "get fat watching TV". Or accept that the ride never ends, the solid ground we like to think exists is just a dream, and we're in a sea of chaos. The only thing left to do is take more Christian advice.

Blogger Crush Limbraw November 02, 2019 10:54 AM  

As I keep saying: Stop fighting DaLastWar! Prove all things first before yammering about something you know little or nothing of.
If you think that what you concluded to be fact 30-40 years ago, you're deluded.
Discovering truth for us mortals is a process - not an end state!
That's why I walk this path which includes a heavy dose of Vox Popoli!

Blogger Christopher November 02, 2019 10:59 AM  

I wonder if and when and how there might be a broad, culture-wide moment--in either or both cultures, that would indicate the cross-over point. Like, for me and maybe a lot of Gen X, we heard about the US vs. USSR rivalry in the 70's but then Reagan won and... the US beat them in ice hockey in the Olympics. Yes, Red Dawn, yes ICBMs, Sandanistas, and maybe this is me looking back knowing how it ended and distorting it, but the story that runs in my head puts a lot of emphasis on that sports event, like 'yeah, Miracle on Ice; that's when everyone realized, meh, your system stinks. Even our amateurs can beat your pros. You're done.'

Anyway, long build up but I'm wondering if you think something analogous will happen ---or already has!-- between the US and China?

Blogger Remo - Vile Faceless Minion #99 November 02, 2019 11:00 AM  

Lived in China now going on 8 years doing various jobs. China isn't the China of 50 years ago. Yes in the 1960's lots of villagers were starved and the place was a backwater and the old folks remember this. However the reality today is that I have a class of senior high school kids *all of whom have brothers and sisters*. Which is to say these kids *did* grow up during the one child policy and their parents found ways around it via bribes or naming aunts and uncles as the 'parents'. Recently China just ended the long time tradition of automatically splitting the house (which all young men must have to get married) with the woman if he owned it before they were married. This one change means that China (unlike the US) no longer pays women to divorce their husbands and the divorce rate is crashing to new lows because of this,
Go figure - women suddenly stay loyal when they are punished rather than paid to cheat and/or divorce. America pays women to do what GOD says he hates while China does the reverse. Also buying gold here is encouraged heavily - you see shops and banks advertising this everywhere and they make it easy. Unlike the US the police do *not* automatically steal your gold and cash if you are stopped on the highway unlike America. So you have a racially homogenous population, tight knit families, lots of local agriculture (I buy my fruit and vegetables from people in little trucks who grow them within a few miles of me and I'm in a big city), and a government actively encouraging rather than punishing family stability. Yes they are going to be walloped with debt defaults... savings will be devastated. But they won't immediately start eating each other and will go back to relying on family to survive. Can one say the same if you live across the street from Somalia paperwork Americans when the EBT cards stop working?

Blogger Watchu talkin bout Willis November 02, 2019 11:02 AM  

Chinese made damn good weapons. I thoroughly enjoy the Norinco SKS and MAK-90. But we can't import nice things like that now. But we do import cheap plastic junk. Because "American" presidents and Congress.

Blogger Christopher November 02, 2019 11:06 AM  

On second thought, what am I talking about?!? 'Drag queen story hour, soldiers in heels....' It's already there. It's happening.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother November 02, 2019 11:18 AM  

None of you, Vox included, have addressed my point, the only point, I made in my comment in the previous post, or this post. I made the comment very specific to abortion.

It's almost as if I've seen hundreds of people attack or challenge Vox over the past 14 or so years.

When China outlaws abortion, I will retract my statement attacking them on that subject.

Blogger NateM November 02, 2019 11:23 AM  

"I Know more about this"

Had this tactic ever succeeded in any debate yet?

Blogger Ingot9455 November 02, 2019 11:26 AM  

It's almost as if Xi is setting them up to accept Jesus as the next step.

Blogger glueballs November 02, 2019 11:32 AM  

@78 Ilk or Something

You broadened scope beyond abortion. You declare enemy and then attacked means by which so-called enemy murders itself. Subsequently you claim that if the "enemy" ends its self-murdering ways you will cease to attack them.

Which logically brings into question which side are you on? Granted you are single-issue/limited in scope apparently given context.

Call it a hint/buy a clue.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother November 02, 2019 11:36 AM  

Glueballs,

You're right. I included running little children over in the street, prison camps, etc.

Why are all of you sucking China's dick? Whose side are you on? I could ask you the same question, Glueballs.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 02, 2019 11:43 AM  

"When China outlaws abortion, I will retract my statement attacking them on that subject."

Do you single-issue vote too?

Blogger VFM #7634 November 02, 2019 11:46 AM  

Western civilization tripod was Greek philosophy, Roman law and patriarchy, and Christianity - until ours was cut away and corroded by outside actors.

Not just outside actors. Large sections of our elites were involved because they hated Christianity. Membership in Freemasonic lodges was an indication. It was a combination of murder and suicide.

When China outlaws abortion, I will retract my statement attacking them on that subject.

They will, and fairly soon, I'm pretty sure. They've already changed the one-child policy to two-child, and I suspect the next step will be to remove any limits on children at all as it becomes clear their mainly urban population are inclined to have only one child anyway.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother November 02, 2019 11:50 AM  

If they are thinking clearly, they probably will. Will it reverse the demographic trend? We'll see.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother November 02, 2019 11:52 AM  

Azure, no I don't vote single issue, unless the issue is America. The abortion rate in China, and their laws incentivizing the killing of accident victims, and their treatment of their own people, belies the argument everyone here is making about how eucivic and future oriented (showing up for it) China is.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 02, 2019 11:57 AM  

Not saying they're perfect.

Blogger Jay Will November 02, 2019 11:57 AM  

If the government is big brothering you every minute of the day but you only get negative points for things which are objectively bad for you, your family, the nation then this is preferable to the "do what you want" libertarianism that leads to multiple failures across the board.

It now makes perfect sense that the statue of liberty is a tranny. What greater expression of freedom can there be than freedom from reality.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch November 02, 2019 12:08 PM  

@68 I do believe you missed the point.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother November 02, 2019 12:13 PM  

Vox,

Is the overarching point of your Cbina rhetoric that we should be emulating China?

If so, most of the commenters here are missing that point and going straight to slobbing the yellow knob.

Blogger Jay Will November 02, 2019 12:14 PM  

The social engineering is so profound. People are more "triggered" by moon landing denialism than they are by things that really should matter to them.

Getting angry on the internet must look comical if you could see someone as it happens. To a "backward" tribesman watching he would think the screen had magic powers that had infected you with a demon. Incredibly the tribesman is far closer the truth, it really is like magic.

Blogger VD November 02, 2019 12:16 PM  

Try that again and you're getting banned, Animal Mother. You're free to think what you want about China, but you are not free to opine about me here. You know the rules.

Blogger Sheila4g November 02, 2019 12:16 PM  

I'm not particularly bright compared to the present company, and I know little about Chinese history, and I'm neither a VFM or Vox accolyte . . . but what he's saying here makes perfect sense to me. He's not holding up China as fully laudable, or saying we can or should emulate their culture. He's simply noting the trends, if they hold, are in a positive direction for China whereas they're obviously very negative for America. And I don't particularly care for the Han people - either those I knew living in Singapore or those who've colonized what once was White America. But trends and patterns are there and visible. I don't particularly wish China well, but I do damn what passes for America and the West today.

Blogger Rick November 02, 2019 12:18 PM  

88 how so? The subject is China. There are things I don’t know about it, so I’m asking questions.
Also, can you own guns in China? I don’t know.

Your comment could not be less informative.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother November 02, 2019 12:19 PM  

Im asking you a direct question, Vox. I'm not assuming anything. I'm asking you what the point of your rhetoric is. Because I do not know what you are trying to do.

Blogger Uncle John's Band November 02, 2019 12:20 PM  

Chinese history is cyclical - long periods of dynastic stability with more chaotic spells or upheavals in between. The specifics depend on the circumstances but new long-term order always shakes out. The Chicoms look like part a Period of Disunity or Yuan Dynasty phase that started when the Europeans kneecapped the Qing. The new order may be emerging. In which case, Mao offers about as much insight into the future as Genghis Khan does into the Ming.


"In short i will take army of degenerate transgenders over Chinese army any day..."

Try accessorizing the overwrought blather with a learning curve.

Blogger Rick November 02, 2019 12:26 PM  

Stg — you’re a guest. It’s as simple as that.

I think the point is, people have a mental picture of China and it should conform to reality.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother November 02, 2019 12:29 PM  

Rick, I'm also OG Dread Ilk and a moderator. Don't get between me and Vox. Watch.

Blogger VD November 02, 2019 12:34 PM  

Why are all of you sucking China's dick?

It's hard to decide if the question is more unnecessarily vulgar or more reprehensibly stupid.

I'm asking you what the point of your rhetoric is.

It's not rhetoric. It's observation.

Is the overarching point of your Cbina rhetoric that we should be emulating China?

It's not rhetoric. And ideally, the Western nations would be emulating China in some regards, and not doing so in other regards.

Blogger Garuna November 02, 2019 12:36 PM  

I'm asking you what the point of your rhetoric is. Because I do not know what you are trying to do.

The point is pretty clear. China is more moral than America. I've lived all over America, Europe, and Asia. And I can personally confirm with first-hand experience that it's the truth.

I can also tell you're opining in ignorance because of your fussing over abortion like it's gonna win you the argument. In the East, abortion isn't celebrated like it is in the West. It is treated like a solemn and private matter. If anything, the abortion issue underlines the total moral decay of America and the West in general.

Blogger VD November 02, 2019 12:39 PM  

I'm also OG Dread Ilk and a moderator.

Moderators must be paragons and exemplaries of the rules. That is not what I am seeing here.

Blogger VD November 02, 2019 12:41 PM  

Also, can you own guns in China? I don’t know.

Legally, no. But practically, I recall seeing a report on a crackdown on illegal guns that resulted in over 100,000 being seized in one month alone. Given the high level of corruption there, I suspect an awful lot of police and military weapons are "lost" on a regular basis.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother November 02, 2019 12:42 PM  

I learned how to ask questions like that from the same place your grandfather did, Vox.

No rhetoric involved, good to go. No one understands your point on China, because the amount of comments almost swearing allegiance to China and abandoning their own nation, whichever nation that may be, is overwhelming.

The general takeaway is that you're in love with China. At the very same time The God Emperor is pushing back against China as hard as he can.

The perceived cogdis is crippling people.

Blogger Noah B. November 02, 2019 12:44 PM  

China is more moral than the American (((ruling class))) and the left, not more so than the right. America consists of multiple warring nations that are following very different trajectories. The left is descending into total insanity while traditionalists are fighting back on all fronts, with a critical mass finally realizing that we have no acceptable alternative.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother November 02, 2019 12:44 PM  

Which rules am I breaking, Vox?

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 02, 2019 12:49 PM  

"No one understands your point on China, because the amount of comments almost swearing allegiance to China and abandoning their own nation, whichever nation that may be, is overwhelming."

This is rhetoric, and weak.

"The general takeaway is that you're in love with China."

Your general takeaway of the general takeaway.

Blogger furor kek tonicus ( yo dou spook speener? figh hive! ) November 02, 2019 12:50 PM  

28. andrisf November 02, 2019 8:38 AM
and without good army you can not really sustain and prosper civilization ( as China has learned over and over again).



wat?

you can't DEFEND your civilization from theft, robbing and raping without an effective military.

but the military itself has nothing to do with the "sustainment" or "prospering" of the society. military spending is entirely a Wealth sink and can only be engaged in by a society with surplus manufacturing capacity ( or by stealing from other societies, but that's a zero sum game which will collapse ).

or, as we are currently doing, by turning our children and grand children into Debt Slaves.

and our vast military isn't doing a damn thing to defend our society from the rapine of the Bankstas now, is it?

Blogger VD November 02, 2019 12:51 PM  

The general takeaway is that you're in love with China.

MPAI.

At the very same time The God Emperor is pushing back against China as hard as he can.

And he is right to do so on trade. I've been on Chinese state TV and told the host and the panel that a) there would be a trade war and b) President Trump would win it.

The perceived cogdis is crippling people.

There is your UHQ angle. I can't do anything about anyone else's perceptions. There is no contradiction whatsoever. It's not a football game.

Blogger LZ November 02, 2019 12:51 PM  

I haven't met a communist in China yet. Many things I assumed were communist about China are actually traditional Chinese culture and systems, such as the hukou system that limited population movement. Communists may have enhanced the negative aspects under Mao, but now they're dealing with the limits of growth. Funnily enough, cities such as Beijing and Shanghai are harder to gain residency in for Chinese nationals, than it is for illegal aliens to enter and remain in the USA. You're fine living there if you don't need to rely on social services, don't need a car (licenses are doled out to residents) including schooling for children, otherwise it's not a major burden.

The worst thing about China (in a macro sense of holding the country back) is the economic control through the party. From what I've seen, things are most oppressive at the local level, then there's some freedom, and then it tightens up at the top. If you start a successful local business, you need to overcome the local officials who might demand their hand get greased. You will not have much access to credit outside of govt network (state owned banks have most credit quota), so will need a good social network. Once you outgrow local officials it gets easier, but if you get really big like Alibaba and Jack Ma, they make you an offer you can't refuse.

People in China don't talk about politics much because what's the point? It's a totally different mentality because that area of society is closed to the public. Think of all the time we spend talking about politics in America and imagine you were thinking about making money instead. Stuff like feminism, SJWs and Westboro Baptist are actually illegal by the letter of the law, it is called something like "stirring up quarrels," basically if you make a stink designed to annoy the general public, you can be arrested. Yes, there are very negative aspects to that and China uses it to crush dissent, but it also eliminates all the nonsense. What the party puts out is the biggest nonsense, but it's a lot of anodyne crap that equates to "Just Say No" and similar govt efforts here.

Social credit is scary to think about in the USA because everything is political, but in China the main way people get in trouble is for not paying debts. China has a major moral deficit from living under communism. Fraud, cheating, lying, stealing are common, government officials loot the public treasury or take bribes, etc. On net, as a foreign observer who isn't really subject to it, the impact will be positive as people start behaving better.

Blogger VD November 02, 2019 12:51 PM  

Which rules am I breaking, Vox?

Comment on the topic. Do not comment about me.

Blogger furor kek tonicus ( yo dou spook speener? figh hive! ) November 02, 2019 12:53 PM  

to put another way, what does the Chinese military have to do with the explosive growth in the Chinese economy in the last 50 years?

you yourself just asserted that the Chinks got their asses handed to them by Vietnam.

so Vietnam's economy should have grown leaps and bounds greater than China's? and it's purely my imagination that everything in my local Wally-Mart is from China?

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother November 02, 2019 12:55 PM  

Apologies for the comment about your grandfather, Vox. I made the comment to let you know where I'm coming from with the question I asked about China fellatio.

Blogger NateM November 02, 2019 12:59 PM  

That's a pretty oblique gf reference to warrant a rebuke

Blogger VD November 02, 2019 1:02 PM  

No worries, I took no offense at that. What I fail to understand is your impression that making factual observations about a country, however accurate or inaccurate, necessitates the existence of a strong preference for it.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother November 02, 2019 1:10 PM  

Vox, what I see is you ramping up another big idea strategic offensive that will have wide ripples. But, no one, and I mean no one, even the Dread Ilk, understand what you are doing. Worse, we all recognize MPAI. And we see a comprehensive failure of comprehension. You're shooting too high with the development of your main thesis regarding China.

I've been here for years. I've seen you develop your big ideas much better in the past than this latest offensive on China.

Blogger Garuna November 02, 2019 1:10 PM  

China has a major moral deficit from living under communism. Fraud, cheating, lying, stealing are common, government officials loot the public treasury or take bribes, etc.

I doubt that's just from communism. Most Asian countries have that problem. It's just a result of their generally low-trust culture.

It's really a shame that the West is just letting it's high-trust culture rot like it is. It was one of the best things about it.

Blogger VD November 02, 2019 1:13 PM  

what I see is you ramping up another big idea strategic offensive that will have wide ripples.

I'm not intending to do so. Although, yes, there is a possibility if events happen to play out that way.

No one, and I mean no one, even the Dread Ilk, understand what you are doing.

I wouldn't expect any of you to do so. There is no reason that you would. And I would encourage you to recall that 80 percent of you thought I was wrong about Jordan Peterson too.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother November 02, 2019 1:14 PM  

Fair enough

Blogger Gen. Kong November 02, 2019 1:18 PM  

McChuck wrote:

This isn't complicated, people. China has taken a good, hard look at globalism, and decided to be China.

Yes, that sums it up effectively. Also, I recall out host making a statement to the effect that "there are no good guys here."

It's true the Chinese government is persecuting Christianity for example. Can we really blame them for doing so in light of the antics of countless ostensible leaders of official Christianity?
Starting with Hi-Fellatin' Franny the Pedo-Pope himself officiating at Satanic rituals in St. Peters, to the ludicrous shuffling step-n-fetchits of the Anglican church (which really should just rebrand itself as the Church of Satan) who were groveling before the Synagogue of Satan just the other day. Not to mention the herd of utterly clueless heretics and apostates who worship the Judeo-Christ idol and support the Satanic-Talmudist Noahide Laws?

From the point of view of someone who wants China to remain Chinese, it makes a great deal of sense to persecute the hell out of Christianity. You expect Xi to know the difference between those who worship Christ and those who worship the Devil wearing a Judeo-Chirst skinsuit? Despite the persecution, it's by no means impossible that a genuine Christianity will exist in China a century from now while the moronic herds in Kwa-Bananaland cavort, bow and fornicate before Satan and dance to the shrill tune of the (((healers))) who ceaselessly go about doing Satan's work on the planet.

Blogger Philippe November 02, 2019 1:42 PM  

People tend to be very binary. Saying that China's leadership is seeking the interest of its nation (its own people) does not mean being pro-Chinese / putting your life on the line for China.

And yes, Western Nations were great, had more principles and had leaders seeking the interest of their own people... About 400 years ago.

But it is not today. Today we are lead by Grabblers seeking Grabblers interest in a highly immoral, highly hedonistic, highly individualist society. Period

Last, a credit to Kent Hovind (coming from a Catholic) :

After dismantling an atheist about inconsistencies in the Bible Kent asked him: "you know I have a feeling that what drives you away from the Bible is not any inconsistencies. There is something that profoundly bother you in this book... I don't know maybe it is the ban of pornography..."

The atheist replied "why would you say that?"

...

I have a feeling this is the same with Xi. Gammas hate people who ban porn.

Ban porn, ban abortion, ban contraception. It is time to remove power from the pussies.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother November 02, 2019 1:55 PM  

Phillippe,

The core of my disagreement was that they are not putting the interests of their own people first, and I mentioned abortion and their own total disregard for the life of Han Chinese as examples.

Blogger El Fin November 02, 2019 1:58 PM  

This is the best blog post I’ve ever read. You clearly and definitively spelled out the China-US situation. China learned from us in ways of architecture and technologies. Now it’s our turn to learn from them in ways of morality and civics.

The Chinese suffered for 70 years under their opium war. We’ve been suffering under our opium war for at least 50 years. They rose up. We will rise up also. Deus Vult!

Blogger Tars Tarkas November 02, 2019 1:59 PM  

Doktor Jeep wrote:Back in the 1990s, we were getting a lot of Russian immigrants in New York. We could not help but notice that they were taking welfare checks but had new cars.

They weren't Russian, they were (((Russian))). My part of my city is FILLED with (((Russians))). They are crooks, criminals and lowlifes. Fraud is their way of life. (((Americans))) donate large sums of money to get (((Russians))) relocated to the US.
There used to be infomercials running in my area about pogroms and the like (anodda showah) and how to be a good (((American))) you need to finance (((Russian))) immigration into America.

Blogger LZ November 02, 2019 2:02 PM  

I doubt that's just from communism.

Communism + starvation for a generation. If you didn't push people out of the way, you starved.

The Cultural Revolution also screwed with people's minds. Imagine the current SJW madness except "everyone" has it and you get killed if someone points at you, like you're living in the 1978 Body Snatcher's movie. Imagine how that might alter your ability to trust or behave in trustworthy ways after living through it.

Blogger Jay Will November 02, 2019 2:20 PM  

A symbol is just a symbol, what matters is the objective measures being done in its name. They get you to idolize the symbol, irrespective of what they actually do. In this way if someone idolizes the symbol, any criticism of symbol triggers a negative response, but if the measures they are undertaking and the beliefs they are attaching to the symbol are objectively bad for you and your family, and extended family then they have enslaved you to a lie.

A flag is just a flag. And one day you may associate it with complete and abject failure, you may rejoice in its burning not because you hate yourself, your family and extended family, but because you see that it somewhere got lost, got caught up with the devil and bad stuff. The burn it down crowd see this, it's failed or near failure. But that its end doesn't have to be your end. There can be new symbols.

Go down for your family, never go down for your symbols. The cuckservative will bravely go down alongside his family with his flag, his paper constititution, and a beautiful idea. He will claim that "we are nation of immigrants" proudly as the ship sinks into oblivion, and the New Indians fill his body with steel arrows tipped with Wojapi sauce.

The symbolic world is meant to be a tool that is used for your benefit, the small hats have turned it into a device for your enslavement.

Blogger Philippe November 02, 2019 2:38 PM  

Animal Mother,

I believe the point here is to point out that China is doing better and better.

Donald Trump has no problem with LGBT and gay marriage. This disgust me. Yet I must admit he is doing a great job as president. He could do a much better job. Yet I see no-one that could do better (I would not if I was in his position).

China deserve criticism. But credit is due when it is due.


PS: My point about removing power from the pussies was directed to China haters in general. It is was not pointed at specifically. I apologize if you took it personally.

Blogger Hari Seldon November 02, 2019 2:40 PM  

China is very complicated. I have lived there and I agree with VD that China's leaders are more Confucian than Communist. I would also echo the dreaded David Goldman's point that the neocon distinction between the "good" Chinese people and the "bad" Chinese government is absolute nonsense; the political system is a function of China's culture and history, not some alien ideological graft.

There is much to admire about China, its achievements, and the values it is trying to instill in the population. Having said that, I would also argue that China's brutal, atheist government and the totalitarian manner in which it is attempting to engineer society are totally antithetical to American culture and values, and by that I mean actual, circa-1776 America. This includes China's intensifying persecution of Christians under Chairman Xi, whose drive to "sinicize" religion has led to the closure of thousands of churches.

Some of the people who read this blog are apparently unaware of how good they still have it in the West and how utterly intolerable they would find Chinese rule.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother November 02, 2019 2:51 PM  

I don't take anything personally, Philippe.

Blogger SciVo November 02, 2019 2:58 PM  

The mark of Delta is the instinct to accept correction gracefully, no matter how harshly given. It is something for sub-deltas to respect, aspire to, and work toward.

Thank you VD for your replies in the last thread on China. I was looking at Hong Kong far too abstractly, when "political power grows out of the barrel of a gun," and I appreciate your patience with me.

Blogger SirHamster November 02, 2019 3:22 PM  

@ Stg
Stg58/Animal Mother wrote:The core of my disagreement was that they are not putting the interests of their own people first, and I mentioned abortion and their own total disregard for the life of Han Chinese as examples.

Vox, the Chinese are communist butchers. They are no more moral than we are.

Accepting for the sake of argument that the Chinese people are equally moral to American people, or worse.

One has a centralized government that is pushing for a more moral if authoritarian order. One has a divided government where the majority of the elites are actively pushing and practicing perversion. "One society is proudly nationalist, the other silences, disemploys, and attacks its nationalists."

Graph those data points. China has an upward pointing trend, and US has a downward one.

Maybe in 10 years time, with changes in leadership, Locking Her Up, Draining the Swamp and other things, there will be a different trend for the US. We certainly hope for it, to MAGA/KAG. But at this current point in time, the graph is pointing down.

Noticing the current slopes of the graph is just observation. The US slope is better than it was in 2016, but it's still pointing in a bad direction.

Blogger Fergus November 02, 2019 3:54 PM  

You can observe some praiseworthy aspect of a culture while dennouncing their Lucferian traits.

Blogger IAMSpartacus0000 November 02, 2019 4:32 PM  

As a member of the DreadIlk I don't agree with other members speaking for me. I believe II understand VDs point. It sometimes takes me two or three of his posts but I get it.


China is on the rise. It does have problem but honestly they are handling them better than we are. Will the West rise again? Sure as long as it Finds Christ again and tells the Churchians to pound sand. There will be a remnants. But that doesnt mean the Dragon wont take to the world stage.

I personaly think they are foolish to do this, but they believe this is the best way to counter western lunacy. Russia will likely do better than China or the US in the long run but it is still rebuilding its nation. Putin better be mentoring the next step or the corrupt forces there will ruin what he is building.

Xi needs to do the same or China will fail due to its inner corruption.

BUT if they can keep the train moving that is undoubtedly improving their nation's the 50 years from now it will be Russia and China that will be struggling with world issues like the US Civil War 2.0.

Blogger rumpole5 November 02, 2019 4:59 PM  

Although I certainly am open to having my mind changed, from the Chinese history that I do know, I believe that their inherent character will be their ultimate undoing. The Chinese are overly inward focused on themselves, on their own families and on the Han as a people. The only times they expanded beyond their navel gazing tendencies was when they had the good fortune to be overrun by non Han invaders with an outward focus such as the Mongols and the Manchus and the British. The Chinese just seem to lack the the intellectual curiosity and outward focus that the Western Athens/Jerusalem Christian mind frame has produced. That frame has not ceased to exist, and in fact, the Western degenerate left relies on it for their feigned moral power. They pilfered it from Christianity. The piss has no power without the Christ.

Blogger John Best. November 02, 2019 5:38 PM  

China was raped and pillaged for over 100 years by every foreign power. Look at it now. It is a civilization with over 1 billion people, worlds biggest economy and has a leader who actually cares about its people. They were in a position similar or worse than the position of Christian civilization is today. So morale is rising.

Blogger Ray - SoCal November 02, 2019 5:58 PM  

Finally, a commenter mentioned the cultural revolution. The impact of this on China’s current culture can’t be understated. Low trust, ruthless, ends justifies the means ethos is how business is done. Taiwan has more of the traditional Chinese Culture, but I question anyplace there believes banning plastic straws is a good thing (Taiwan, California, etc...).

Xi has consolidated power to an extent not seen since Mao. He is pushing a cult of him, which has not been seen since Mao. A very telling scene in the documentary American Factory, is at the hq, they have pictures of all the Chinese leaders back to Mao. Xi was dressed like Mao.

Xi is destroying any potential power source against him in China. Mosley’s, Falun Gong, Christians, etc. As another commentator mentioned, ruthlessly.

China has a lot of challenges. Demographic, corruption, environmental, financial, etc. it’s amazing how far they have come from Mao’s death.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother November 02, 2019 6:14 PM  

"IAMSpartacus0000November 02, 2019 4:32 PM

As a member of the DreadIlk I don't agree with other members speaking for me. I believe II understand VDs point. It sometimes takes me two or three of his posts but I get it."

You're Dread Ilk? Says who?

Blogger One Deplorable DT November 02, 2019 7:02 PM  

@99 - The point is pretty clear. China is more moral than America. I've lived all over America, Europe, and Asia. And I can personally confirm with first-hand experience that it's the truth.

I wouldn't go that far. Yet. However, Chinese attempts at improving morality shine like an interrogators spotlight on the immorality of modern America. In a timespan of 50-60 years we have fallen and have fallen hard.

Blogger One Deplorable DT November 02, 2019 7:08 PM  

135 - You're Dread Ilk? Says who?

Do some people confuse being a long time reader/commenter with being Dread Ilk?

I've never considered myself to be one. I always assumed being Dread Ilk required a ritual sacrifice involving SJW skulls and fresh Churchian tears.

Blogger Scott November 02, 2019 8:11 PM  

The Chinese are the enemy of my enemies. Attacking them is as useful as criticizing Milo for his sins.

It's none of my business.

Blogger Salden November 02, 2019 8:15 PM  

Murica is 56% White and dropping. It'll be really obvious once the Boomers die-off

Blogger Scott November 02, 2019 8:34 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Scott November 02, 2019 8:35 PM  

What's confusing to me is seeing so many otherwise solid commentors here fall for the idiotic "Let's you and Him fight" trap.

Remember what Jesus said, "Forbid him not: he who is not against you is for you.

Blogger DeepThought November 02, 2019 8:49 PM  

Those nations who embrace their people, culture, religion and nationalism, survive in the long run.

Blogger Unknown November 02, 2019 9:06 PM  

One aspect of today's China is the official distaste for Christian Churches. But the outright banning of the faith seems to be a thing of the past. I was in China 10 years ago this coming Spring. The Monday after Easter I went into a shop in Changsha were the young female clerk saw the cross I was wearing and asked in broken English if I went to Church on Easter Sunday. She then showed me the book she was reading. It was a Chinese Bible. We had a great time just talking there about the Bible and the Church she attended.

I did something the next day that I came to regret. I decided it would be great to keep in touch with her. So I went there and asked for her address so I could correspond or at least send her a Christmas card. A strange look came over her and she disappeared into a back room. I thought perhaps she was getting something to write on. I stood there for quite sometime when finally another customer came in and she immediately emerged to greet and serve them, acting as if I didn't exist. I left somewhat perplexed. It was only later that I realized how stupid I had been. It is fine for her to practice her faith and even discuss it.... but it would not be fine at all for her to be receiving letters and packages from someone in America. I felt horrible to have made her so fearful.

Blogger Stilicho November 02, 2019 9:16 PM  

"The core of my disagreement was that they are not putting the interests of their own people first, and I mentioned abortion and their own total disregard for the life of Han Chinese as examples."

Xi is not putting the interests of the people first, but he is putting the survival of the country first. If he has to murder a few hundred million to do that, he likely will. His lack of morality does not preclude him from taking moral actions particularly when he is taking action based upon objective reality and observable facts.

Take Stalin, for example, immoral by any reasonable standard, but having Trotsky killed was a moral act.

Personally, I think the Chinese are near their apogee and that the debt collapse will hit them harder than the West in many ways. They will be focused on feeding themselves again. The sooner we disassociate from them, the better for us. Our lives would be better if there were no Chinese products on our shelves and no Chinese in our country. Let them go to hell in the handbasket of their own choosing.

We have work to do here.

Blogger jkmack November 02, 2019 9:30 PM  

I believe that what VD and Owen, are trying to instill in those that would be open to it, is to stop being so God Damned Cocky. Your stale assumptions and complacent thinking are going to serve you ill, and you must reassess and get ahead of the OODA loop or you are damned to be China's bitch for at least a couple of centuries.

But that is just a guess.

Blogger Peter B November 02, 2019 10:52 PM  

China still has a culture that respects old people, so dealing with the impending shortage of productive workers whose taxes can support pensioners by putting the elderly on an ice floe, so to speak, would not be an easy sell politically.

China will need to guarantee energy sources for the future; this project is well underway and definitely includes sourcing oil in the Persian Gulf (not to mention replacing the US there as a customer to be catered to.)

China also has a problem which is an opportunity: a demographic bulge in males of military age who are unlikely to find wives in China; the Belt and Road project needs loyal Chinese citizens to run an enterprise which bears some similarities to the East India Company. If they do well abroad, they may be able to move home and enter the nomenklatura.

Speaking of European colonialism, I've long thought that life for a local in the places where Chinese corporations are running the agricultural production and petroleum industries might make the Belgians in Africa look like Mother Teresa.

Blogger Fergus November 03, 2019 12:52 AM  

Which is why escaping North Korean women who cross the border end up marrying Chinese.

Blogger cyrus83 November 03, 2019 1:19 AM  

China's present government does not seem all that different from what it's historically been. Swap Xi's title for Emperor, and the Communist Party for the Grand Secretariat, and the current government probably has more in common with the Ming dynasty than it does with Marx.

China doesn't exactly treat its citizens well when they step out of line, but note how government in the US treats un-woke Christians who publicly oppose the immorality of the day, or how its prosecutors over-charge, withhold evidence, and use the legal process itself to pressure people to plead guilty. Not for nothing is the process the punishment here.

China isn't trying to emasculate their men, isn't letting the country be invaded by a horde of foreigners, and isn't worried about climate change nonsense. If China actually embraced Christianity as a nation, it would strike dread into every globalist's black heart.

The US meanwhile is fast burning through the inheritance left by prior generations while the elites focus on boutique madness related to genitalia, signaling virtue to make up for their decadent morals, and a doomsday climate cult, while being ignorant of how anything works. The power grid issues in California right now aren't just a one-off.

Blogger wreckage November 03, 2019 3:17 AM  

I can accept on the face of it that the Chinese government are cold-blooded bastards. Now, consider that our glorious leaders are producing worse outcomes by several metrics.
You don't need UHIQ to see what this means.

Blogger CynicalMan November 03, 2019 5:04 AM  

McChuck wrote: "This isn't complicated, people. China has taken a good, hard look at globalism, and decided to be China."

Close, China took a look at globalism and decided it should be Chinese.

Blogger CM November 03, 2019 8:35 AM  

I get western chauvinism... but the west is for the west.

Christianity is not and was never intended to be a subscription to a set of culture traits. There's no need to get puritanical about it.

Personally, I'd like to see what kind of culture arises with a Christian makeover - not what it looks like after a Western makeover.

And that's not to say I dont like western life. I'm part of that and it is my preference... which makes eastern orthodox church too foreign for me. I want my church with western traditions.

There is nothing wrong with that and that is good.

There is also nothing wrong with eastern christians wanting eastern christianity (as long as theologically sound).

Blogger CM November 03, 2019 8:46 AM  

+1

Blogger MEGAMUS Maximus November 03, 2019 9:19 AM  

Loser who didn't get the memo detected.

Blogger MEGAMUS Maximus November 03, 2019 9:21 AM  

Arthur, you are just plain retarded. This is as stupid as the long debunked claim that Hitler wanted to be worshipped as a God.

Don't even think you can comment at this point.

Blogger ArthurTintagel November 03, 2019 9:28 PM  

@154 thanks for the name calling, i'll seriously reconsider my position the same way i did every time a leftist called me a racist.

Blogger 351wsl November 04, 2019 10:05 AM  

I think the use of the word "moral" is a trip line. A moral person is defined as someone with good behavior. A moral person doesn't lie, cheat, steal or murder. In my experience, I've found Chinese to be less moral than Americans.
That doesn't mean China is not on a path toward ascendancy and the United States is in decline. In fact, to the topic's point, Xi may indeed be trying to make China a more moral place, although I don't think that is truly possible without Christ. Nor do I think that a preference for nationalism, which Xi is certainly espousing, makes one moral.

Blogger SirHamster November 04, 2019 3:26 PM  

Nationalism does not make one moral, but nationalism is more moral than anit-nationalism.

Love of one's people is morally superior to hatred of the same.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd November 06, 2019 8:49 AM  

Stg58/Animal Mother wrote:The core of my disagreement was that they are not putting the interests of their own people first, and I mentioned abortion and their own total disregard for the life of Han Chinese as examples.

Of course the Chinese rulers are not putting the interests of the Han ahead of their own. The rulers are evil psychopaths. They do see that they would have more power domestically and a better economy, hence more powerful military, if they forced some morals on their amoral Han population.

Meanwhile the American (((rulers))) do everything in their power to pervert or destroy the morals of our culturally Christian society.

One of the paths is going to cause an upswing for the nation, one of these paths will cause a downswing for the nation.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd November 06, 2019 8:53 AM  

LZ wrote:Communism + starvation for a generation.

Communism didn't change much in China.

LZ wrote:If you didn't push people out of the way, you starved.

It's been that way there for 5,000 years. That didn't start with Communism.

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