ALL BLOG POSTS AND COMMENTS COPYRIGHT (C) 2003-2019 VOX DAY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. REPRODUCTION WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED.

Tuesday, November 26, 2019

The Tokugawa shogunate was right

To ban Jesuits and Catholicism in Japan.
Pope Francis met with young people at St. Mary's Cathedral in Tokyo on Monday, where he called on the country to "open your arms and welcome those who come, often after great suffering, to seek refuge in your country", said Caritas Japan.

It said that due to the country's restrictive laws, only 42 people obtained refugee status in 2018.
Any purportedly "Christian" organization that attempts to destroy nations is in service to the Devil. This Fake Pope is obviously a man of evil. As his concerns demonstrate, he is both in and of the world.

Labels: ,

167 Comments:

Blogger Patrick Kelly November 26, 2019 1:06 PM  

" After that Mass, Francis met Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe."

I hope Abe did the traditional Japanese smile, bow, and expression politely communicating what he thought of their suggestions to those who understand.

Blogger Joe Smith November 26, 2019 1:08 PM  

Just flying around the world, worshiping Amazonian fertility goddesses and championing the Global Justice Initiative. That's our evil anti-Pope.

Blogger R Webfoot November 26, 2019 1:14 PM  

"welcome those who come, often after great suffering,"

Refugees: "Stop making me hit myself! Stop making me hit myself!"

@2 "worshiping Amazonian fertility goddesses"

I saw an interview with the guy who dunked Pachamama in the Tiber Idol Party. According to him, "Pachamama" is fake; the first ever "Pachamama" ritual was performed at a UN meeting. The UN is trying to syncretize Amazonian religion to better leverage them as an "oppressed" group, as part of a UN program of gaining influence in South America.

Blogger Longtime Lurker November 26, 2019 1:15 PM  

The Pope would have better luck commanding Jupiter and Saturn to switch places.

Blogger Bramley Apple-Sauce November 26, 2019 1:18 PM  

Sakoku 2 when?

Blogger Ominous Cowherd November 26, 2019 1:21 PM  

Let's pray that the Roman hierarchy again turns to God.

Blogger Johnny November 26, 2019 1:23 PM  

The Pope is just a guy who has bought into current social doctrine so much that he no longer represents biblical teaching. He should not be the head of the church because he is not really of the church, and he operates well outside his body of expertise, if we are to suppose he has a body of expertise, and he probably does.

Blogger weka November 26, 2019 1:24 PM  

This Calvinist can pray for that.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch November 26, 2019 1:25 PM  

"Any purportedly "Christian" organization that attempts to destroy nations is in service to the Devil. This Fake Pope is obviously a man of evil. As his concerns demonstrate, he is both in and of the world."

This part is true.

@7 The Pope is just a guy who has bought into current social doctrine...

No, he's much worse than that. Otherwise, he wouldn't be doing everything he's been doing.

Blogger Robert What? November 26, 2019 1:26 PM  

Remember the old joke: "is the Pope Catholic?" Well now it is not a joke; it is a legitimate question.

Blogger ZhukovG November 26, 2019 1:30 PM  

You know, those wild partying renaissance Popes are looking better and better.

There's a lot to like about the Nationalist orientation of the Orthodox Churches.

Blogger Ranger November 26, 2019 1:31 PM  

Papapaco is a blessing to all Christians of good will, making it clear that, whatever the truth about the past controversies, the current Catholic Church is definitely NOT the church of Christ.

We can still argue about the precise date that happened, but I believe the current state of affairs puts those old controversies into a new light

Blogger John Regan November 26, 2019 1:35 PM  

Jesuits. Ugh. They used to be formidable.

Blogger Gallant November 26, 2019 1:35 PM  

They could use more Catholicism in the Vatican

Blogger Nikolai Collushnikov November 26, 2019 1:38 PM  

The Vatican as a mission field?

Blogger weka November 26, 2019 1:41 PM  

The college of cardinals is a mission field.

Blogger Jim the Curmudgeon November 26, 2019 1:42 PM  

This is not at all a surprise, sadly. Abe is being pressured by the rootless cosmopolitans to open up Japan to mass immigration. In case anyone missed it, he was humiliated in Israel recently (e.g., https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/05/07/netanyahu-puts-wrong-foot-forward-by-serving-japans-abe-dessert-in-a-shoe/)

Japan took in 12 muslim 'refugees' a while back, and two of them (turks I think) promptly did what muslim men do best - gang raping local women.

East Asians had better wake up and realize that this plan of turning every country into Brazil is not giving the Japanese, Koreans or Chinese a special exemption. If the rootless cosmopolitans have their way, every single country will be a melange of warring ethnic groups that is amenable to control.

Blogger Honingbij November 26, 2019 1:48 PM  

@11

Too right on both counts!

The Russian Orthodox church is absolutely not converged, and I expect it never will be.

Blogger Matthew Baker November 26, 2019 1:52 PM  

May God bless the good in the Catholic Church and rebuke the wicked and corrupted leadership.

Blogger Rattlesnake_Kid November 26, 2019 1:57 PM  

Every Catholic I know, prominent clergy included, dislikes him more than anyone. It is interesting that the head of the Roman Catholic church is far less a figure to Catholics, and easily defined as a figure of hijacked prestige to the secular world. He's like the Gretard, but old and robed.

Blogger tuberman November 26, 2019 1:57 PM  

John Regan wrote:Jesuits. Ugh. They used to be formidable.

First, as most know, this Pope is pure Evil.

Jesuits have been Evil too, and interwoven with many of the weird secret societies. They infiltrated and took over the Scot Masons after getting kicked out of most of Europe, and they are the ones who comped the Masons over time. Also, they were involved, at a high level, with several other arrogant secret societies. They believed they were so pure that they had/have carte blanche to do any sins they want, including the most evil sins possible. Snake worshipers.

Read Neon's new book on this for full story.

Blogger Karen took the Kids November 26, 2019 1:58 PM  

The Kurgan is correct when he says there hasn't been a legitimate pope since 1958. Along with protection of pedophiles, pro-immigration, pro-homosexuality, the lavender mafia is really doing its best to ruin a once honorable church. This guy is a wolf in sheeps clothing.
I hope Abe told him where to shove his degeneracy.

Blogger tuberman November 26, 2019 2:05 PM  

"The Russian Orthodox church is absolutely not converged, and I expect it never will be."

Depends, as there are multiple Patriarchs, with at least a couple being very comped. The one working with Putin, no. The one working with the corrupt Ukraine leaders during BHO's time, what do you think?

Blogger rcocean November 26, 2019 2:11 PM  

Yep, the Japanese rejection of Christianity will save it. I don't see any great wave of Christianity in China either. Who wants to convert to a religion headed by a Fake Pope or a bunch of Protestant cucks?

Blogger Strongarm November 26, 2019 2:11 PM  

Strongly agree. If you dont mind who is Neon and what is the name of the book?

Blogger rcocean November 26, 2019 2:13 PM  

Just read that Archbishop of Canterbury has backed the Chief Rabbi in his dispute with Corbyn. When is the C of E, going to make it official and stop calling themselves Christian?

Blogger D Zniger November 26, 2019 2:13 PM  

One of the best vacations of my life was a few years ago in Japan. Only Japanese around me. I didn´t mind being the only foreigner, it felt great not seeing one headscarf.

Blogger tuberman November 26, 2019 2:19 PM  

25. Strongarm

Neon Revolt is his handle, and you can look up his book on Amazon. The Kindle version is inexpensive. "Revolution Q"

Not trying to sell his book for him specifically, but I do like it.

Blogger Calvin809 November 26, 2019 2:20 PM  

I was talking to a missionary to Eastern Europe at my church a while ago about who to read from the Orthodox church to better understand their worldview. I don't remember the name of the Orthodox guy but it turned out as we were looking him up online that he was supporting gay marriage. They aren't impervious to the creep of evil from the West. They think differently than the West so that may give them some immunity but don't let your guard down.

Blogger Balam November 26, 2019 2:23 PM  

@rcocean
''don't see any great wave of Christianity in China either.''
There is. It's pretty underground, especially after the government bombed the mega church they had, but it's growing fast.

Blogger Brick Hardslab November 26, 2019 2:23 PM  

When do they declare him an antipope officially? He meets all the requirements.

Blogger Wario's Mart November 26, 2019 2:27 PM  

This pope is a catastrophe.

If Anne Barnhardt is right he is a homosexual communist Mason presiding over a coven of the same. And he is an attempt at a new world order false Christianity for Latin America even as Islam is forced on Europe. It's so incredibly sad. Probably all real popes get JFKd.

We need Benedict, a frail prisoner, to somehow regain his rightful position.

Blogger BastionHarm November 26, 2019 2:34 PM  

tuberman wrote:"The Russian Orthodox church is absolutely not converged, and I expect it never will be."

Depends, as there are multiple Patriarchs, with at least a couple being very comped. The one working with Putin, no. The one working with the corrupt Ukraine leaders during BHO's time, what do you think?


There are no "multiple patriarchs" of the Russian Orthodox Church. There is only one: Patriarch Kirill. The Ecumenical Patriarch Filaret Denisenko, who's behind the Ukrainian Schism, was defrocked and anathematized years ago for numerous violations of Church Canon.

I suspect Russian and Serbian Orthodoxy will weather the current and coming storms and will remain largely non-converged. There's a certain ethos about them that gives them a certain immunity to convergence; this ethos recognizes that they will always be opposed and hated by the world and that one needs to be in the world, but not of the world, and never to surrender to today's worldly whims and wiles. That ethos that "we will always be opposed and hated by this world" is NOT what I see in almost all Western Churches: there, the ethos always seems to be - let's be friends with the world, let's all get along, let's not rock the boat, because, at the end of the day, most of them surrendered to this world a long time ago.

Others here have pointed out problems in other Orthodox Churches, and, I agree (and find it interesting) that these other churches are far more open to (and are undergoing a slow convergence), such as the Greeks and the OCA.

By the way, here's a good take on the Ukrainian Schism (and the from an American-convert to Russian Orthodoxy), which also touches upon issues of "convergence" and how believers should respond.

https://fatherjohn.blogspot.com/2019/11/ukraine-schism-what-is-layman-to-do.html

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 November 26, 2019 2:46 PM  

When Pope Francis washed the feet of the poor after his "ascension" to his current title, I felt very uneasy about it.

Charlatans often mimic such actions without understanding the fundamental reasons behind it.

Blogger tuberman November 26, 2019 2:49 PM  

33. BastionHarm

Okay, true.

"Others here have pointed out problems in other Orthodox Churches..." My focus, but your answers were very good.

Blogger Fuzzums Wuzzums November 26, 2019 2:56 PM  

Calvin809 wrote:They aren't impervious to the creep of evil from the West. They think differently than the West so that may give them some immunity but don't let your guard down.

The Pope's authority is seen as absolute in Catholicism for some reason, but in Orthodoxy there's no such thing. It is expected that some leaders will be worse and others will be better cause they're still human, whereas in catholicism a bad Pope will invalidate the faith itself. Orthodoxy is a clear and final argument against the need for a papacy: Christianity without the papacy is not only possible but stronger for it.

Blogger Balam November 26, 2019 3:12 PM  

As of 2016 the Vatican has only taken in 20 refugees themselves (1)! I personally could not find anything else since. Japan has taken in more than double over the '''pope's''' hypocritical mouth.

Even worse, the Vatican grounds host none of them. They just pay to host the refugees off site, not even taking the burden in their own home (2).

(1) https://borgenproject.org/vatican-city-refugees/
(2) https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/25/what-happened-pope-francis-syrian-refugees-rescued-lesbos-vatican-rome

Blogger Fuzzums Wuzzums November 26, 2019 3:13 PM  

The Japanese get it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUwpAGiTxvo

Blogger Seeingsights November 26, 2019 3:16 PM  

Meanwhile, two Catholic priests in Argentina--the Pope's home country--have been sent to prison for molestation of minors.

Blogger Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi November 26, 2019 3:20 PM  

Fuzzums Wuzzums wrote:The Pope's authority is seen as absolute in Catholicism for some reason, but in Orthodoxy there's no such thing. It is expected that some leaders will be worse and others will be better cause they're still human, whereas in catholicism a bad Pope will invalidate the faith itself. Orthodoxy is a clear and final argument against the need for a papacy: Christianity without the papacy is not only possible but stronger for it.

That is because Catholicism is a Monarchy. Christ is the King and the Pope acts as steward with all his authority (Isaiah 22:22).

While the Pope's authority is absolute, it is also limited. Nothing Francis has done has actually changed the faith, but he sows discord and uncertainty like my little kids planting seeds. There is in fact legitimate question as to whether Francis is truly Pope, but we'll leave that for another day.

What is interesting, as a side note, is that Nagasaki was known as little Rome and had the largest cathedral in Asia. It also wasn't supposed to be the location of the second atomic bomb.

An Interesting Tale on Why Nagasaki Was Bombed

Blogger xevious2030 November 26, 2019 3:34 PM  

A pity they did not remain suppressed. But tares sewn in the field are a given, either way.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash November 26, 2019 3:45 PM  

Brick Hardslab wrote:When do they declare him an antipope officially? He meets all the requirements.
Typically not until he is deposed. Or if we go with the mediaeval practice, poisoned by his lover or otherwise dead.

Blogger widlast washere November 26, 2019 3:48 PM  

"whereas in catholicism a bad Pope will invalidate the faith itself"
Pure nonsense. We've had plenty of bad Popes, does not affect the Faith in the least. Either you take Christ at His word or you don't.

Blogger Unknown November 26, 2019 3:57 PM  

Best thing I ever did was to leave the Catholic church and start going to a Protestant church.

Blogger Miu//theConduit November 26, 2019 4:04 PM  

Off-topic, I would nevertheless like to momentarily here appreciate your maintenance of this excellent blog. I'm grateful that somewhere online keeps us appraised of that concerning the good, beautiful, and true.

Blogger FrankNorman November 26, 2019 4:08 PM  

This problem goes quite a way back. Anyone else remember the scene in the film The Mission where the chief of the village asks the papal envoy "Do you speak for God, or for the king of Spain?"

Back when the Jesuits first went to Japan, the Japanese soon reached the same conclusion about them - as VD says. The kingdom they served was an earthly one.
As, I suspect, did king Henry VIII of England for that matter.

The papacy and its minions have been pawns in secular power-politics for a long time. This didn't start with Vatican II.

Blogger Honingbij November 26, 2019 4:09 PM  

@33 BastionHarm

Excellent and concise response.

Blogger Matamoros November 26, 2019 4:09 PM  

The Church's teaching has always been that everyone is entitled to their race, nation, tribe and culture, as long as it doesn't violate the Catholic Faith.

Francis is simply an anti-Pope who is going to destroy as much of the Church as he can before God intervenes.

Blogger dc.sunsets November 26, 2019 4:16 PM  

Is there meat to the story that the current Pope ignored direct pleas from Argentines who were victimized by Priests and their buddies at a school for the deaf?

It's a testament to how domesticated are men, that any of these clowns make it alive to sentencing.

Blogger Honingbij November 26, 2019 4:19 PM  

@29 Calvin809

First of all, if you want to know the "worldview" of the Eastern Orthodox, read the Church Fathers to start.

As for the Orthodox who support gay marriage, they are inevitably Greek Orthodox [although there are still very strong traditional priests and bishops in the Greek Orthodox church ]. You won't find a single Russian Orthodox clergyman who supports it.

Blogger FrankNorman November 26, 2019 4:25 PM  

48. Matamoros November 26, 2019 4:09 PM

The Church's teaching has always been that everyone is entitled to their race, nation, tribe and culture, as long as it doesn't violate the Catholic Faith.


To me that sounds a little bit weasel-wordy.
Especially when "the Catholic Faith" gets redefined to include a tenet like "thou shalt allow Moslems to swarm into thy land and rape thy daughters."

Blogger God Emperor Memes November 26, 2019 4:29 PM  

I bet he shits in the woods, though.

Blogger Fuzzums Wuzzums November 26, 2019 4:33 PM  

widlast washere wrote:Pure nonsense. We've had plenty of bad Popes, does not affect the Faith in the least. Either you take Christ at His word or you don't.

I'm talking about the Catholic Faith, not faith in Christ.

Blogger Tanjil Bren November 26, 2019 4:34 PM  

The ongoing pressure to force Japan to open its doors infuriates me.
As it is, they are far more tolerant of foreigners, and their excesses, than they once were, and inner Tokyo is starting to look like a multi-culti crap hole as a direct result.
For example, African American gangbangers are now being used by the Yakuza to peddle drugs around Harajuku, Shinjuku, and Shibuya, and I simply do not understand why the Japanese are tolerating it.
Twenty-five years ago, they'd have been arrested and out on their ear inside forty-eight hours. Actually, strike that; they wouldn't have been allowed in 25 years ago.
The rot is already in, and it saddens me tremendously.

Blogger Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi November 26, 2019 4:35 PM  

Honingbij wrote:As for the Orthodox who support gay marriage, they are inevitably Greek Orthodox [although there are still very strong traditional priests and bishops in the Greek Orthodox church ]. You won't find a single Russian Orthodox clergyman who supports it.

You Sure?

Blogger Unknown November 26, 2019 4:38 PM  

No surprise Bergoglio despise Matteone Salvini, i hope once Matteone nazionale rise to government (if we will ever have elections again in Italy) he will deport him too.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash November 26, 2019 4:47 PM  

Unknown wrote:hope once Matteone nazionale rise to government (if we will ever have elections again in Italy) he will deport him too.
He can't. Vatican City is legally a separate country, for precisely that reason.

Blogger Unknown November 26, 2019 4:55 PM  

57.Snidely Whiplash It was a joke

Blogger Fuzzums Wuzzums November 26, 2019 4:56 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:He can't. Vatican City is legally a separate country, for precisely that reason.

He can always erect a giant wall around the Vatican with no doors.

Duterte.

Blogger Shane Bradman November 26, 2019 5:04 PM  

I want Alexander VI back.

Blogger An Orthodox Christian November 26, 2019 5:05 PM  

As a ROCOR parishioner, I was shocked to discover ROCOR signatories to "A Statement Concerning the Sin of Racism" posted at Orthodox Clergy Against Racism. I'd appreciate your opinion of it honingbij.

Blogger Shane Bradman November 26, 2019 5:06 PM  

Because the pope is part of our organisational structure and not a lot beyond that. He holds the position of Bishop like any other Bishop.

Blogger Shane Bradman November 26, 2019 5:09 PM  

Fuzzum, please shut up about topics you clearly know nothing about. Sounds like you watched a spergy Jay Dyer video instead of figuring it out yourself.

Blogger Cetera November 26, 2019 5:10 PM  

@Strongarm
Neon Revolt
Revolution Q
It is available on Amazon, but physical copies are nearly gone. You can get it on kindle too.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd November 26, 2019 5:11 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Vatican City is legally a separate country, for precisely that reason.

Is it possible to enter or leave Vatican City without entering Italy? I suppose one could helicopter in from a third country, as long as the Italians didn't force your `copter to land along the way, as long as the third country was agreeable and in range ...

Yes, the original comment was facetious. No, the Eye-ties can't deport Poop Francis from the country in which he is dick-tater for life. They could certainly make life miserable for him there, if it were profitable for them.

Blogger Honingbij November 26, 2019 5:12 PM  

@55
Your link from Radio Free Europe? Don't make me laugh.

Blogger Honingbij November 26, 2019 5:26 PM  

@61 An Orthodox Christian

First I've head about it.

I'm in Europe, so I'm not up on a lot of what's going on in the US.

Like you, I sure am disappointed and shocked to see some of those signatories.

Blogger Sargent.matrim November 26, 2019 5:42 PM  

How many refugees does Vatican city take a year?

Blogger theartistformerlyknownasgeorge November 26, 2019 5:42 PM  

The guy is an apostate with zero authority based on his participation in pagan worship.

Circular theological underpinnings for the pope's authority in the first place make him impossible to call out for many Catholics.

I wonder what they'd say if they knew what he doesn't do in public?

Blogger Jake November 26, 2019 5:45 PM  

I recently joined the Catholic Church. A very based, traditionalist priest really helped me through a difficult time. However, I was also considering the Orthodox Church. I think that both the Catholic and Orthodox faiths have a lot to recommend them, and that either can survive a debased Pope or Patriarch.
But the current Pope is obviously evil. The Church must reject him.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash November 26, 2019 6:02 PM  

Dyer, Bradman, Fred, no denominational sniping.
I understand it's hard with this topic. Control yourselves.
Andris, you're banned.

Blogger VFM #7634 November 26, 2019 6:08 PM  

@FrankNorman

Power politics is one thing, but pushing SJWism and not promoting the religion they're supposedly the head of is what makes the Vatican II antipopes different.

The Tokugawa were pure evil IMO, and wrong, and confusing the fake Catholicism of Vatican II with what existed before is something that people do all the time, and looks like VD did the same just now. I mean, it's understandable, but there really is a clear break with John XXIII and Vatican II.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash November 26, 2019 6:08 PM  

Ominous Cowherd wrote:Is it possible to enter or leave Vatican City without entering Italy?That's covered under the treaty Alphonso I negotiated with the Pope. Short answer, traveling under a Vatican visa, you are exempt from arrest by Italian authorities while in a train depot, on a train, or in any other mode of conveyance, headed to the Vatican. If you get out of the cab, you're fair game. If you divert to the bathhouse, or stop to eat, you are no longer exempt.

Blogger Fuzzums Wuzzums November 26, 2019 6:14 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Dyer,

I'll pass on the message.

(I'm joking, I know you were referring to me)

Blogger gichan November 26, 2019 6:23 PM  

ISAIAH 22:22? Theology!

Blogger Newscaper312 November 26, 2019 6:26 PM  

@22 Karen...
"The Kurgan is correct when he says there hasn't been a legitimate pope since 1958."
Yes this pope is a piece of crap.
I know of some of the Catholic splinter groups that take this view about the Novus Ordo, and son even has a HS friend in one of their seminaries. Clearly a lot of bad decisions were made in Vatican II (some intentionally so I now think), but it is not quite clear to me how things are illegitimate now at the fundamental level of ordinations, and bishops and papal selection process. Particularly given there was already a Vatican I, not to mention other previous high profile church councils over the centuries.

Care to shed some light, short version?

Blogger Shane Bradman November 26, 2019 6:31 PM  

One bad Pope or Patriarch is a temporary problem and potentially an isolated one. If your priest or your Bishop is good you can safely ignore everything Francis does. We survived Benedict IX so we can survive Francis.

Blogger gichan November 26, 2019 6:34 PM  

I'm impressed. Alot of Japanese do not know what that sakoku meant. (means)

Blogger Shane Bradman November 26, 2019 6:35 PM  

The Kurgan's argument is that according to Canon Law, if any clergy member says something clearly heretical then they automatically forfeit their position.
I prefer to look at it as a bad football coach of a legitimate football team. The football team isn't invalidated and removed from the league simply because the coach is retarded,but it's going to lose most of its games.

Blogger bodenlose Schweinerei November 26, 2019 6:39 PM  

He can't. Vatican City is legally a separate country, for precisely that reason.

"The Pope! How many divisions does he have?"

Blogger Snidely Whiplash November 26, 2019 6:39 PM  

Shane Bradman wrote:We survived Benedict IX so we can survive Francis.
I have specific red lines. If they are crossed, then I will apologize to Kurgan and join him.
In the meantime, I'm just waiting for an old man to die.

Blogger Brick Hardslab November 26, 2019 6:41 PM  

I think every Pope has washed the feet of the poor only Francis washed women's feet.

Blogger Shane Bradman November 26, 2019 6:46 PM  

The Canon Law and theology deep dives that Kurgan has done are above my pay grade. I don't think Francis will ever go full Satan and start quoting Francis Macnab or Aleister Crowley, but if he does then we need to hire some Venetian assassins to take care of the problem.

Blogger VFM #7634 November 26, 2019 7:10 PM  

but it is not quite clear to me how things are illegitimate now at the fundamental level of ordinations, and bishops and papal selection process.

@76 Newscaper312
Two major reasons:

1) The Vatican II sect mutilated its rites of ordination and consecration of bishops, and most of the other sacraments too.

2) All of the Novus Ordo hierarchy subscribes to heresies condemned in encyclicals written by legitimate Popes before 1958, such as the famous Syllabus of Errors. This means they're technically not Catholics, and therefore can't hold any legitimate office in the Church.

It's sort of like how many people think Barack Obama was born in Kenya and therefore was an illegitimate President, but this is of course a far more serious matter.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash November 26, 2019 7:19 PM  

Shane Bradman wrote:I don't think Francis will ever go full Satan
"Ordaining" women
Approving gay "marriage"
A couple of others. They would invalidate the Church's claim to be limited by the Holy Spirit. So either the claim is false or the official Church is no longer (as Kurgan claims) the Church. There's no logical way the claim can be invalid per any honest reading of scripture. So it would be proof that Kurgan is right.

I'm not there yet.

Hope he dies soon.

Blogger VFM #7634 November 26, 2019 7:24 PM  

I don't think Francis will ever go full Satan and start quoting Francis Macnab or Aleister Crowley

At his recent Amazon Synod, he presided over a worship ceremony for Pachamama, an Andean fertility goddess, using the plausible deniability of the statues looking a little bit like the Blessed Virgin Mary.

I would expect either him or possibly a successor of his making excuses for Satan. I think they'd actually be able to get away with it among the Novus Ordo lumpensheeple nowadays, with the cucks who do notice something wrong making excuses for him as they always do.

Blogger Strongarm November 26, 2019 7:25 PM  

Thank you

Blogger Strongarm November 26, 2019 7:25 PM  

Thank you

Blogger Fuzzums Wuzzums November 26, 2019 7:28 PM  

You survived a gangrape by 7 people. You will also survive a gangrape by 5 people.

I myself wonder why the gangrape is necessary in the first place.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 26, 2019 7:41 PM  

"Nothing Francis has done has actually changed the faith"

That's a cute sidestep. While playing that game, nothing any human could ever do would change the faith. Let's use words as if we meant things by them, shall we?

Francis may not have harmed "the faith" in its entirely inhuman aspect, but he's trying to mislead the faithful, and mercy for him would already be a millstone necklace.

@wildlast, what is: Papal Infallibility.

It is said to apply whenever the Pope is teaching or defining moral doctrine.

Pronouncing him an antipope once he's gone is not an option for you. There's no wiggle room here. He's already taught and defined wicked "moral" doctrines. Either he's not the Pope, or the Pope isn't infallible, or he's not the Pope and the Pope isn't infallible.

Blogger Shane Bradman November 26, 2019 7:42 PM  

The chance that the Catholic Church approves of gay marriage and ordaining women is close to zero. Francis does not have that power. Vatican II was cucked hard because it happened at the height of liberal postwar virtue signalling. There is no similar event or movement that could possibly compromise the Church on the level of the World War Episode II: Attack of the Germans. You have to remember that the Pope still has to sit across from the Cardinals and lots of Bishops. Francis is shit at his job and a pansy dumbass but he's no John XII. Do not spread despair.

Blogger JovianStorm November 26, 2019 7:44 PM  

We were pissed at those 42 as well.

No Japanese or Chinese or any other Asian will fall for the idiot popery. Only guilty whites brainwashed by social justice fail for that.

Blogger Shane Bradman November 26, 2019 7:48 PM  

Azure, you need to look into Papal Infallibility. It does not mean that everything the Pope says is Gospel.

Blogger VFM #7634 November 26, 2019 7:49 PM  

Either he's not the Pope, or the Pope isn't infallible, or he's not the Pope and the Pope isn't infallible.

This is one reason I can't understand people who want to toss out Vatican I.

If Vatican I was fake, then any of those three propositions could be true.
If it's legitimate as I believe it is, then only the first one could be true.

Blogger VFM #7634 November 26, 2019 7:50 PM  

@93 Shane Bradman

Infallibility does mean, though, that following the Pope is always safe and you won't fall into sin. You can hardly say that about Francis or his five bogus forebears.

Blogger VFM #7634 November 26, 2019 7:52 PM  

Edit: I mean "fall into sin" through following the Pope and what he teaches. You can, of course, fall into sin in other ways.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 26, 2019 7:53 PM  

By all means, if someone has a definition of Papal infallibility that somehow still leaves Francis both Pope and infallible, fire away. Good luck with that....

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 26, 2019 7:55 PM  

"Azure, you need to look into Papal Infallibility. It does not mean that everything the Pope says is Gospel."

I have, more than once. If it's doctrinal or definitive of doctrine and he's saying it or writing it then it applies.

Blogger Shane Bradman November 26, 2019 8:02 PM  

If it applies to everything doctrinal as you believe then Ordinatio sacerdotalis is infallible and it is impossible for women to be ordained.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 26, 2019 8:03 PM  

"This is one reason I can't understand people who want to toss out Vatican I."

Better, but:

"When the First Vatican Council formally declared the dogma of papal infallibility in 1870, it was very carefully circumscribed. According to the council’s formula, a papal edict is regarded as incapable of error only if:

It pertains to faith and morals
It does not contradict scripture or divine revelation
It’s intended to be held by the whole Church"

I mean, this means that the Pope's words are no different than those of any other human being. If any other human being's ediciton meets these criteria, it's impossible to determine that they were other than infallible.

The doctrine of Papal Infallibility would therefore be meaningless, would it not?

Blogger Shane Bradman November 26, 2019 8:14 PM  

"It does not contradict scripture or divine revelation"
Please think about this clause. A bad Pope literally cannot be infallible if he is contradicting scripture. There is no way in which Papal Infallibility can be misused because it is invalidated if it is incorrect.

"If any other human being's ediciton meets these criteria, it's impossible to determine that they were other than infallible."
This is retarded because normal people are not the head of the Catholic Church and don't have any say in Church doctrine. The Pope does because he is the head of the Catholic Church.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 26, 2019 8:15 PM  

So, specifically, the Pope is right whenever he intentionally communicates to the whole Catholic Church about faith and/or morals and he can't be proven wrong?

...Still need to be rid of Francis, then.

Blogger Gen. Kong November 26, 2019 8:37 PM  

Wario's Mart wrote:

This pope is a catastrophe.

If Anne Barnhardt is right he is a homosexual communist Mason presiding over a coven of the same. And he is an attempt at a new world order false Christianity for Latin America even as Islam is forced on Europe. It's so incredibly sad. Probably all real popes get JFKd.

We need Benedict, a frail prisoner, to somehow regain his rightful position.


They excommunicated her, by the way. Won't do it for pedophile priests, bishops and cardinals, but some woman who calls them out on their pure evil is given the boot. Benedict, lest we forget, went along with the clown show and JP II made the monster a cardinal. I expect the Sede vacante folks have gotten this one right (all anti-popes starting with John XXIII). As Barnhardt noted correctly, Vatican II was an asteroid which hit the church. What she fails to note is who threw the asteroid and at whom it was directed.

Blogger Gen. Kong November 26, 2019 8:49 PM  

... Oh and yes, the Tokogawa Shogunate was right. They saved their country for a time, but they went away in the 1860s. The rot from the west has been slow to seep into Japan, but it's definitely there. The country's (((lenders))) are demanding more immigrants all the time. If Abe's local owners cannot do without borrowed money, perhaps they should swallow hard and look at Xi instead. Anyone is better than the (((Synagogue of Satan))) - even the Musloids.

Blogger widlast washere November 26, 2019 9:00 PM  

"I'm talking about the Catholic Faith, not faith in Christ."

So was I.

Blogger VFM #7634 November 26, 2019 9:18 PM  

It pertains to faith and morals
It does not contradict scripture or divine revelation
It’s intended to be held by the whole Church"

So, specifically, the Pope is right whenever he intentionally communicates to the whole Catholic Church about faith and/or morals and he can't be proven wrong?


@Azure
No, I think you're misreading something. Saying someone is correct whenever he's not wrong is obviously a tautology, and would render the Papacy meaningless.

Blogger Timmy Treehouse November 26, 2019 9:26 PM  

1)The only reason Catholicism was banned and Christians were murdered in Japan because of the black legend spread by British traders, doing the work of the Empire, the direct ancestor to the Globohomo regime.
2) Don't act like Japan hasn't been a globohomo colony since after the war. They have the same neoliberal economy as everyone else.
4) As E. Michael Jones points out, Protestants have been doing to bidding of the Jew since the Reformation. All protestant movements were judaizing endeavors, and for most of its history the British Empire acted exclusively to do the bidding of the Jews, certainly the Rothschilds.
4) The Vaican II church was crippled because of the efforts of Jews and protestants to weaken traditional church teaching.
3) Japan's rejection of Christianity makes it more vulnerable to infiltration. They're incredible nihilistic, atomistic, and vulnerable to conditioning as the post-war period and high suicide rate has proven. In many ways, Japan is what they Synagogue wants for the west. An atheistic consumer population susceptible to social programming, they're already on board with faggotry.
4) " If Abe's local owners cannot do without borrowed money, perhaps they should swallow hard and look at Xi instead. Anyone is better than the (((Synagogue of Satan))) - even the Musloids."
The Synagogue has always been behind the Soviets and political Islam.

Blogger weka November 26, 2019 10:28 PM  

Tommy, this pope ain't no catholic. It would not merely be the reformers who call him an Antichrist, but Francis Xavier and the counter reformation.

Japan has a low fertility rate and their best course is to restore their nation and ignore the papal. Wormtounge.

And during the religious wars, all sides were at fault. Leave the 16th century for Christ to sort out. We have to deal with this time.

Blogger English Tom November 26, 2019 10:37 PM  

@Frank Norman

There's an interesting book called, The Entity, about the machinations of the papal intelligence service over about a 500 year period. Cant recall authors name.

Blogger John Rockwell November 26, 2019 10:39 PM  

Shame really salvation of the country but many souls lost.

Blogger Shane Bradman November 26, 2019 10:39 PM  

Timmy, I'm enthusiastic about the Catholic Church as well, but there's no need to lie about Japan. You will have a tough time finding a stronger culture that has better insulated themselves. Catholicism was banned and Christians murdered because it was a political threat to a formerly divided nation. The shogunate did not want any risk of division again. Considering how the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom turned out, they may have made the right choice if the goal was unity. Japanese culture is completely foreign to Western culture and the missionary strategy was completely wrong. Just as the Gospel of John has a very different angle to the other Gospels, making moves into Japan would have to be completely different to win them over.

Blogger John Rockwell November 26, 2019 10:42 PM  

Those who refuse to be worldly are considered: "totalitarian cults" anyway.

So its either be friend of the world or be marginalized as a cult.

Blogger The Depolrable Podunk Ken Ramsey November 26, 2019 11:03 PM  

Azure Amaranthine wrote:

The doctrine of Papal Infallibility would therefore be meaningless, would it not?


The doctrine has always been chiefly concerned with doctrinal disputes within the Church. The pope's verdict is final, he settles the matter, no more dispute. It's a very rarely used thing and it's constrained in use. There's only been one assertion of it in the past 150 years since Vatican I.

The pope's just a man, warts and all. Francis is certainly not the first bad pope nor is he the worst. That's not to excuse him, he's damned disappointing. But the faith doesn't change, the daily practice of it in our lives as Catholics doesn't change. We hope for a better pope the next time and pres on.

Blogger TheMaleRei November 26, 2019 11:21 PM  

Apologies for the OT, but more evidence of Twitter serving Satan...
Article by Shane Trejo at BigLeaguePolitics dot com
"Twitter’s Terms of Service Explicitly Allows Pedophiles to Discuss ‘Attraction Towards Minors’ on Their Platform"

Blogger Geir Balderson November 26, 2019 11:30 PM  

Until the Pope opens up the Vatican, for refugees, we can all keep our gates closed.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 26, 2019 11:34 PM  

"No, I think you're misreading something. Saying someone is correct whenever he's not wrong is obviously a tautology, and would render the Papacy meaningless."

That's not the way I'm going.

From the perspective of a Catholic I would expect, "This is the area delineated, within which the Pope is infallible." Saying that it's a restriction upon the Pope.

From a non-Catholic perspective I could see someone saying, "Ahh, so you're saying he's right whenever he can't be proven wrong, how convenient."

My own perspective is a little bit more complicated. Now, I have yet to read line by line through the Vatican I record, but for the above three point distillation, my issue is this:

Hypothetically, the Pope produces an edict in 1900, intended for the whole Church, about moral behaviour, and this edict does not contradict scripture or divine revelation. This edict is then Papally infallible. However, some time later the Holy Spirit reveals to some people that the Pope's edict was wrong, and suddenly the edict is not infallible? Is it or isn't it? Can't have both.

I realize that "could happen" is not that same as "has happened", but note that the whole mechanism as stated above is still suspiciously convenient. Instead of saying "these are the grounds upon which it stands", it says "these aren't the grounds...."

I expect the Council itself is more adequate than the above conception of it.

"The pope's verdict is final, he settles the matter, no more dispute."

That would be the most reasonable, yet if so, just a restatement of Papal Primacy.

I'll be back after picking up an actual record.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash November 26, 2019 11:49 PM  

Azure Amaranthine wrote:Hypothetically, the Pope produces an edict in 1900, intended for the whole Church, about moral behaviour, and this edict does not contradict scripture or divine revelation. This edict is then Papally infallible. However, some time later the Holy Spirit reveals to some people that the Pope's edict was wrong, and suddenly the edict is not infallible? Is it or isn't it?
The doctrine of the Church is that Christ Himself promised that would never happen. What you're positing is, to a Catholic, a contradiction of terms along the lines of "a rock so big God can't move it."

Blogger Timmy Treehouse November 27, 2019 12:55 AM  

@108
I never defended Bergolio.
How is Japan going to restore their nation when their culture has been thoroughly westernized, their entertainment and universities have been as infiltrated as ours, and the majority of the population under 40 has no interest in marriage or having children. Japan is as hopeless as every othe rliberal, secular nation.
So the people fighting to maintain the integrity of traditional European society and religion were just as guilty as the judaizers trying to undermine it and slander other Christians to foreigners?

@111
1)"You will have a tough time finding a stronger culture that has better insulated themselves. "
From what? Western materialism runs rampant in Japan and the only traditions they have left are fancy tea parties and ritual suicide.
2)"Catholicism was banned and Christians murdered because it was a political threat to a formerly divided nation."
North Korean apologists say the same thing. There was never any threat from the Christian Shoguns, except for the one that existed in Ieyasu's mind fanned on by (((English))) traders. They only threatened his personal power, just like every other anti-Christian dictator in history.
3)"Considering how the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom turned out, they may have made the right choice if the goal was unity."
The Taiping Rebellion was the result of Manchu overreach and tyranny. A poor example to use. Christianity is only a threat to the centralized power mongers.

Blogger Vaughan Williams November 27, 2019 12:58 AM  

With Saints like Augustine and Jerome, the Catholic Church has never needed enemies.

Blogger Shane Bradman November 27, 2019 1:20 AM  

"Christianity is only a threat to the centralized power mongers."
Well that's a fucking nuisance because every nation at every point in time is full of power hungry rulers.

Blogger SciVo November 27, 2019 1:23 AM  

Balam wrote:''don't see any great wave of Christianity in China either.''

There is. It's pretty underground, especially after the government bombed the mega church they had, but it's growing fast.


The true Church has always thrived best under persecution, for that is when it is the most Christly. It should worry us when we have worldly approval. Matthew 5:10-12:

"10 Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

"11 Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. 12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you."

Blogger The Pitchfork Rebel November 27, 2019 1:30 AM  

@90

"Pronouncing him an antipope once he's gone is not an option for you."

I'm all for Cadaver Synod II.

Blogger John Rockwell November 27, 2019 1:35 AM  

A corrupt vatican will survive for a long time.

Blogger John Rockwell November 27, 2019 1:40 AM  

@Tim
E Michael Jones' slander of protestants is just a rehash of the 30 years war.

Total unproductive bullshit and falsehood.

Blogger John Rockwell November 27, 2019 1:43 AM  

@SciVo

Church thrives under persecution as long as every single believer isnt hunted down and killed.

Blogger Timmy Treehouse November 27, 2019 3:09 AM  

@120
So the church should bow to wicked rulers? Got it.

Blogger FrankNorman November 27, 2019 3:16 AM  

107. Timmy Treehouse November 26, 2019 9:26 PM

4) As E. Michael Jones points out, Protestants have been doing to bidding of the Jew since the Reformation. All protestant movements were judaizing endeavors,


Is that the talking point they've told you to push?

So do you believe that Martin Luther was "doing the bidding of the Jews" when he wrote the tract Against The Jews And Their Lies? Really?

Would you care to give us an explanation of what you mean by "judaizing" here? How's about we pick a Protestant denomination at random, and have you justify your claim of it being a "judaizing endeavor"?

Let's start with the Methodists. Was John Wesley a Judaizer?

Blogger cyrus83 November 27, 2019 3:30 AM  

The old joke used to ask if the pope is Catholic, with Bergoglio the question is often whether he is either of the two.

The ironic thing is that the current anti-nationalist mood of the Catholic SJW bishops is concurrent with the rise of the abomination of the national bishops' conferences in the Church.

Blogger Vaughan Williams November 27, 2019 3:40 AM  

@127 FrankNorman, when it isn't depressing, it is a little bit amusing to hear Catholics calling Protestants "Jews" when Orthodox Christians even consider Catholics to be "Jews" or "almost Jews, and we definitely have our eyes on them!" Thanks to LaramieHirsch I looked at E Michael Jones book on the Revolutionary Spirit. Lots of interesting history, but yes, mostly just slander against Protestants and anyone who puts the Bible over Church tradition. Is E Michael Jones the Jordan Peterson that was aimed at the religious set?

Blogger VD November 27, 2019 4:14 AM  

As E. Michael Jones points out, Protestants have been doing to bidding of the Jew since the Reformation. All protestant movements were judaizing endeavors.

EMJ is incorrect.

Blogger tkatchev November 27, 2019 4:18 AM  

...anyone who puts the Bible over Church tradition

The Bible is just Church tradition, written down. Thus anyone who does this is only putting down both.

Blogger Shane Bradman November 27, 2019 4:39 AM  

Whenever "scripture" is referenced in the New Testament, it specifically means what we know as the Old Testament or the Septuagint. The New Testament is church tradition, as tkatchev says. The Bible was compiled in around 400AD of books written between 33AD and 70AD. There was nothing called The Bible until the church decided to compile all of the important texts into one place in order to spread the message more effectively. While the Old Testament/Septuagint is more or less unchangeable, the New Testament could be changed at any point in time because it is tradition. This could be why Martin Luther attempted to remove four books from the New Testament, or it could just be related to his removal of 7 books from the Old Testament.

Blogger Philippe November 27, 2019 4:43 AM  

Vatican 2 was a mistake

Blogger Catchthefox November 27, 2019 4:50 AM  

And with this you showed your true face unambiguously. May your lords, the Powers and Principalities which you serve, reward you richly Vox, and may you be satisfied with your thirty silver dinarii.

Blogger Shane Bradman November 27, 2019 5:04 AM  

@134. You must be really eager to get banned you stupid fuck.

Blogger Catchthefox November 27, 2019 5:10 AM  

@135 more like I dont give a fuck as long as I'm being banned for telling the truth. Vox is just next level Peterson. I've been lurking for a while but now I'm done with him. Goodbye.

Blogger Shane Bradman November 27, 2019 5:17 AM  

Haha there's the textbook gamma response.

Blogger Vaughan Williams November 27, 2019 5:41 AM  

Eric Dubay was put in place to nullify Robert Sungenis and the alt-Science movement. Jordan Peterson was put in place to divert and nullify alt-Nationalism. It is looking like E Michael Jones was put in place to redirect those turning to Christ, and get them into the Catholic or Orthodox churches.

Blogger FrankNorman November 27, 2019 5:59 AM  

132. Shane Bradman November 27, 2019 4:39 AM
While the Old Testament/Septuagint is more or less unchangeable, the New Testament could be changed at any point in time because it is tradition


Oh boy. And they accuse Protestants of being Judaizers?
So "tradition" is something they can change anytime they like, huh?

Thank you for showing us openly the contempt people like you have for the New Testament.

Blogger FrankNorman November 27, 2019 6:03 AM  

The early Christian community was quoting Paul's Epistles as "it is written" by the end of the First Century. Any councils they held in later centuries were just to reaffirm that position.

If they'd met a modern Papist with his "The Church(tm) decided what books to include, so The Church(tm) is free to ignore anything in those books if it wants to." mindset, their response would probably have been along the lines of:

"Hold it there while we go and collect some rocks."

Blogger Red Bane November 27, 2019 6:04 AM  

Not sure what the tenets of Catholicism have to do with the UN's man currently occupying the seat of Peter (temporary globalist coup) ? Are we saying the Japanese should be supported in their historic denial of Christ and Logos?

Blogger SciVo November 27, 2019 6:23 AM  

@141 Red Bane:

I read it as Gen-X sarcasm, because of course the Japanese would be better off with Christ. But not with being advised by an evil Pope that tells them to hurt themselves.

Blogger Shane Bradman November 27, 2019 6:36 AM  

Frank, please don't be retarded. Nobody is changing the New Testament. Protestants often misunderstand when it says in the New Testament that scripture should not be added to or taken away from to mean that the Bible as a whole should not be added to or taken away. This is wrong because the New Testament didn't exist until after Jesus died and was resurrected, and the Bible was compiled hundreds of years after the fact. In theory, the New Testament could have had additional books as time went on to reflect what happened as time passed. Jesus left us an ongoing legacy, not a static one. The Church decided not to add any books to the New Testament. A good decision once you understand how organisations can become converged.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 27, 2019 6:50 AM  

" It is looking like E Michael Jones was put in place to redirect those turning to Christ, and get them into the Catholic or Orthodox churches."

I don't agree with everything EMJ says, but he's still a good dude in my book. I can roll with a few punches.

As for Frank, Lex Orandi Lex Credendi is more complex an involved than you might think, if you're even aware of it.

"Oh boy. And they accuse Protestants of being Judaizers?
So "tradition" is something they can change anytime they like, huh?"


Protestants have the plank in their eye on that account as far as I can tell, not the Catholics. We forgot the apocrypha existed because we didn't like them.

Blogger Vaughan Williams November 27, 2019 7:18 AM  

The apocrypha contain some good reading, and they also contain things like Tobith and Judith that are so anachronistic it would derail the whole "Bible is the Word of God" if they are kept. I asked an Orthodox priest how he reconciles the apocrypha. He said the Orthodox interpretation of Scripture is allegorical, not literal. I agree with Tolkien's anti-allegory stance. Once you go allegorical, words can mean anything at all.

Blogger Shane Bradman November 27, 2019 7:35 AM  

Keep in mind that the different Orthodox churches have wildly differing opinions because they are not in communion with each other. The Catholic position is that each of the 73 books had a different author and is written in a different style for a different purpose. The study of scripture is such a hard task for that reason. There are only a few books which were acknowledged to be bullshit, like 3 and 4 Maccabees which make heavy references to some events that never happened. Some books are literal like most of the New Testament, and others are poetic and rhetorical, like a lot of the Old Testament. There's a lot of grey area. But if everything is allegory the church will collapse. I've seen that happen to my former Methodist church and a few others.

Blogger Vaughan Williams November 27, 2019 7:52 AM  

Even 1 and 2 Maccabees, while useful as somewhat historical references, contain dubious statements about this or that event being the fulfillment of this or that prophecy. But such tiny minor fulfillments compared to what a reasonable person would expect from reading them in context. Also the final books of Esdras are a bit dubious also. If the Catholic church accepts the Apocrypha as scripture, then the references to divorce in Sirach and Ecclesiasticus condemn Catholic doctrine.

Blogger SciVo November 27, 2019 7:58 AM  

Dudes and dudettes, look up the four-fold exegesis: history, etiology (causation), analogy, and allegory. It will make your Bible study more productive.

Blogger Shane Bradman November 27, 2019 8:15 AM  

There are legitimate divorces within the Catholic Church, but they're so rare that nobody ever considers them. In most cases divorce is not allowed, but there can be exceptions when some convoluted criteria are met. No exception for King Henry, however.
The Old Testament also has rape, pillage and slaughter in it, but that's not an endorsement.

Blogger Vaughan Williams November 27, 2019 8:45 AM  

@148 SciVo, this four fold exegesis explicated by Thomas Aquinas... explains how he arrived at the conclusion that prostitution should be legal. There is quite enough to be done in understanding the literal meaning of the words without throwing analogy and allegory into the mix.

Blogger cyrus83 November 27, 2019 9:50 AM  

The LXX was the widespread translation of the Hebrew Scriptures at the time of Christ and the text was adopted as canon by the early Church, so much so that the unbelieving Jews ultimately stopped using it.

While there was debate for several centuries over the exact contents of the New Testament - usually with regard to certain letters and Revelation - the books of the LXX were pretty much accepted by all Christians as canon until the reformers came around. I know about Jerome's criticisms, but Jerome still included all of the LXX's books in the Vulgate.

The question has always been where the reformers got the authority to revise the canon of Scripture which by that point had been settled for over 1000 years. I have always found it a bit curious that they were willing to accept that unbelievers had kept the Old Testament canon more faithfully than Christians.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd November 27, 2019 10:25 AM  

Azure Amaranthine wrote:According to the council’s formula, a papal edict is regarded as incapable of error only if:

It pertains to faith and morals
It does not contradict scripture or divine revelation
It’s intended to be held by the whole Church"

As long as the Pope is making a Roman Church-wide edict about faith or morals which doesn't contradict scripture or revelation, it's infallible. That actually works, if you ignore the issue of divine revelation not in scripture. I am pretty sure the Roman Church doesn't hold with continuing revelation, so what is this? Is it like claiming you saw a 900 foot tall apparition of Jesus?

If we changed that middle one to say simply ``It does not contradict scripture, period,'' Protestants would have no problem with the doctrine of infallibility.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash November 27, 2019 10:59 AM  

Divine revelation encompasses more than scripture, as John clearly says.

Blogger Jose Miguel November 27, 2019 11:05 AM  

@150 SciVo

The four-fold sense of scriptural interpretation wasn't just Aquinas, it was in the Eastern churches as well. Throwing out one, in this case the allegorical, is a huge loss when reading the Word. For example, the entirety of Samson's life is an allegorical prophesy of the life of Christ. St. Ambrose wrote out how every part of Samson's life is a parallel of Christ's. It is uncanny how many Old Testament passages are allegories of stuff that happens in the New Testament. Of course interpreting Samson's life as an allegory of Christ's life would be BS if Samson was not a literal judge who had a historical life that he lived. Allegorical interpretation requires the underlying literal events to be true, otherwise the allegory drawn from it is bunk. The fact that Samson's and Christ's lives mirror each other is more evidence from the Old Testament of Christ being who He claimed to be.

That Orthodox Priest did a disservice to you in regards to explaining how the Orthodox tradition does hermeneutics, and unfortunately that view is quite common in Ameridoxy. To put the fourfold interpretation process in basic English, it would be first literal or historic, second allegorical or how does this passage parallel others concerning Christ, the Church, the Faith etc., third moral or what this passage says about how we should live, and fourth anagogical, or what this passage says about where we are going, our ultimate fate.

Blogger S1AL November 27, 2019 11:43 AM  

Note on the Septuagint: the deuterocanonical books were *always* debated. There's a reason that none of the canons precisely match. Moreover, Luther is not responsible for their absence from the Protestant standard - Lutheran translations maintain the Apocrypha. Finally, the official RCC Canon was not officially settled, unless I missed something in my research, until the Council of Trent.

End PSA.

Blogger FrankNorman November 27, 2019 12:33 PM  

The Anglican church probably comes closest to maintaining the pre-Reformation view of the Apocrypha - good books to read, but not on the same level as the rest of the Old Testament.
The RCC only went all the way to declare then part of the OT in reaction against the Protestants going in the other direction.

Blogger FrankNorman November 27, 2019 12:35 PM  

143. Shane Bradman November 27, 2019 6:36 AM
Frank, please don't be retarded. Nobody is changing the New Testament.


Nor did I say that anyone was. How's about responding to what other people actually posted, rather than plinking at straw men?

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 27, 2019 5:16 PM  

"so what is this? Is it like claiming you saw a 900 foot tall apparition of Jesus?"

No, don't exaggerate. In real terms, it's absolutely anything unspecified. In more social terms, it's anything unspecified or, in the case of divine revelation, possibly specified but without enough political support.

"If we changed that middle one to say simply ``It does not contradict scripture, period,'' Protestants would have no problem with the doctrine of infallibility."

You must be familiar with a very different set of Protestants than I. My set would be even more irritated if the restriction by divine revelation were removed.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd November 27, 2019 7:07 PM  

Azure, I was making fun of Oral Roberts and his "vision." It's not just the Roman church that gets silly.

Edicts which don't contradict scripture won't endanger any souls. Since Popey-dude's edicts only affect the Roman church, they don't matter to the rest of us anyway.

Blogger rcocean November 27, 2019 7:35 PM  

The thread confirms that given enough comments, every Center-Right post on Christianity will devolve into:

1. Tedious discussions of obscure theology.
2. People re-fighting the Reformation.

Blogger FrankNorman November 28, 2019 12:02 AM  

160. rcocean November 27, 2019 7:35 PM

The thread confirms that given enough comments, every Center-Right post on Christianity will devolve into:

1. Tedious discussions of obscure theology.
2. People re-fighting the Reformation.


That is because some Roman Catholics have an almost automatic reaction towards any criticism of the RCC's current situation: counter-attack at Protestants.

Blogger damaris.tighe November 28, 2019 12:38 AM  

There's a swell of young nationalists wanting to go back to church who cannot think of the Catholic Church at present.

Perhaps when Bergoglio ceases to loll on the papal throne, surrounded by his glittering court of pederasts.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 28, 2019 1:54 AM  

"Since Popey-dude's edicts only affect the Roman church, they don't matter to the rest of us anyway."

There is quite some disagreement on that. Thankfully it can't currently be forcefully settled in our disfavor.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 28, 2019 1:56 AM  

"The thread confirms that given enough comments, every Center-Right post on Christianity will devolve into"

Hardly. This thread began about a half step from there.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash November 28, 2019 2:03 AM  

FrankNorman wrote:That is because some Roman Catholics have an almost automatic reaction towards any criticism of the RCC's current situation: counter-attack at Protestants.


You observably do not read the threads.

Blogger damaris.tighe November 28, 2019 3:36 AM  

A determined and creative Italian Attorney General could charge Francis with something nasty and trap him in an embassy.
Popes have always been captured by princes.

Blogger SullyRob November 28, 2019 9:25 PM  

Enjoy your place in hell.

Post a Comment

Rules of the blog
Please do not comment as "Anonymous". Comments by "Anonymous" will be spammed.

<< Home

Newer Posts Older Posts