ALL BLOG POSTS AND COMMENTS COPYRIGHT (C) 2003-2019 VOX DAY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. REPRODUCTION WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED.

Monday, December 02, 2019

Goldberg defends the Deep State

Not much doubt who the cuckservatives serve anymore. And it isn't America:
The deep state is the right’s new bogeyman.

I’d wager that until fairly recently, few people had ever heard the phrase. I’d also bet that roughly 99 percent of those who fling the term around have no idea that it’s borrowed from Turkish politics.

The idea of a deep state, or “state within a state,” is that there are undemocratic forces within the permanent bureaucracy, the military, and the intelligence services who pursue their own interests rather than those of the people or the agenda that voters desire.

Depending on the country in question, deep states are not only real, they are sometimes as devious as people fear. At various times in the history of the Soviet Union, the secret police ran the government and the Communist party for its own benefit.

In the democratic West, the civil service and other bureaucratic institutions often accumulate enough power and arrogance that they see themselves as immune to the desires of voters or politicians. Prior to a few years ago, some people would call this sort of thing the “deep state,” and depending on the context, that was fine.

But now it’s become a partisan talking point in defense of almost everything President Trump does. It’s a warrant for widespread paranoia and hysteria. People talk as if we live in a Jason Bourne or James Bond movie, with secret deep state organizations plotting to overthrow the government or something.
In fairness, Jonah is a bona fide expert on the Deep State since binge-watching the British TV series of the same name this summer. The thing that is particularly stupid about his defense of the imperial bureaucracy is that "Deep State" is just a name that applies to a phenomenon that everyone has known existed since Yes, Minister first appeared on British television in 1980.

It's not a canard, it is a well-confirmed phenomenon, and it is at war with the legitimate Presidential administration.

Labels: ,

58 Comments:

Blogger Azure Amaranthine December 02, 2019 9:21 AM  

Ever since puppet rulers, even. Deep states are nothing new beyond new terminology. We're not magically superior to all of history. Co-option of power is as old as rebellion, deep state is just that with long-running denial propaganda.

Blogger rognuald December 02, 2019 9:23 AM  

I agree. The term is just the name for a reality that people have been slowly waking up to. Trump running for president brought it out into the open and the term reached critical mass.

Vox, can you revisit the topic you started with last night about Trump being seen as a better president than Lincoln? I am interested in your take on this. Thanks

Blogger Mr.MantraMan December 02, 2019 9:29 AM  

Easy enough to find out who to fire and or prosecute, tap the Democratic Socialist circle jerk social media in DC.

Blogger Shane Bradman December 02, 2019 9:34 AM  

Every American has known about the deep state since JFK was killed.

Blogger Longtime Lurker December 02, 2019 9:35 AM  

"undemocratic forces within the permanent bureaucracy, the military, and the intelligence services"

Jonah is getting warmer!

Blogger johndoe03526 December 02, 2019 9:47 AM  

Funny thing is he perfectly described it, then disavowed its existence.

Blogger wreckage December 02, 2019 9:53 AM  

He appears to be saying that the idea of the Deep State is a problem now, but only because people support the actions of one of the mechanisms deliberately designed to limit its power.

One thing I have noticed is that twenty years ago any gentleman of sophistication understood the concept of the Deep State, and would be embarrassed to think anyone thought he didn't. Now suddenly they're trying to say it's a fever-dream. Or in Jonah's case here, that's it's not STRICTLY a fever-dream, but it's evil to exercise civilian and democratic oversight over it, because REASONS.

Blogger Cataline Sergius December 02, 2019 9:54 AM  

Even the Deep State has basically admitted it exists.

Why the hell can't Jonah?

Blogger Daniel December 02, 2019 9:56 AM  

The wikipedia "Turkish origin" canard is a very Deep Statey fantasy.

Try the Pendleton Act, Goldbug.

Blogger Dwayne Thundergrit December 02, 2019 9:59 AM  

A worm that dwarfs those in the novel Dune is turning in the world.

It will first rise into the air as it turns, then falling back to earth crushing the diabolical crowd who have for so long controlled the world through pacts with a power they thought was supreme.

Blogger tuberman December 02, 2019 10:02 AM  

"Funny thing is he perfectly described it, then disavowed its existence."

Goldberg is a (((niggler))). Sort of says, 'While it's true there are Deep States...Blah, blah, blah...it's Conspiracy Theory to believe Trump is being undermined by a DS.'

He says this while even most of the "conservative" controlled opposition are attacking the DS as obviously real. His audience has to be very small.

Blogger Johnny December 02, 2019 10:03 AM  

I congratulate Mr Goldberg on giving a nicely worded and clear description of the deep state. And for me it surely is a partisan issue. I view Trump's current conflicts as fundamentally a contest between him and the deep state. Lacking that leg to stand on, the current somewhat creepy Democrat harassers would never hold up.

As for being hysterical, I have never encountered anybody labeled either right wing or conservative who seemed to be the least bit hysterical. That is mainly the province of the radical left.

And paranoia? How overused that word is. If somebody is truly paranoid it is socially indiscreet to call them paranoid because it is a mental illness. Thus people who are paranoid don't get called paranoid. The term is always misused.

Blogger Crush Limbraw December 02, 2019 10:04 AM  

Kunstler quoted this in his Turnaround: The dead white man Arthur Schopenhauer (1788 – 1860) famously observed that “all truth passes through three stages: first, it is ridiculed; second, it is violently opposed; and third, it is accepted as self-evident.”
We're right in the middle of this thing on DaDeepState!

Blogger Shimshon December 02, 2019 10:04 AM  

"I’d wager that until fairly recently, few people had ever heard the phrase. I’d also bet that roughly 99 percent of those who fling the term around have no idea that it’s borrowed from Turkish politics."

Translation: Stop this cultural appropriation, stat!

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 December 02, 2019 10:06 AM  

All these neocons seem to be content to appeal to the Boomer Conservatives. Nothing that they write or say connects with any right-winger under the age of 40.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan December 02, 2019 10:08 AM  

If the deep staters were about to close the circle upon Israel we would know everything about the DS, the DS would be the Newest and Baddest Hitler that ever existed.

Blogger FrankNorman December 02, 2019 10:08 AM  

So he's gone from denying that there's any such thing as the Deep State, to proclaiming that of course there is, and there's nothing wrong with that?

No depression or bargaining, just straight from denial to acceptance?

Blogger Welsh Woodsman December 02, 2019 10:10 AM  

Because that would entail admitting his own ((special tribe)) is behind it.. from the DP creation to the its orchestration.
What a nice way to treat those who rescued you from ovens and gave you your own country. Conniving ingrates !

Blogger tuberman December 02, 2019 10:11 AM  

15. swiftfoxmark2

Naw, he appeals to a rare few of other neocons and that's it, and this group is extremely small.

Blogger Flannel Avenger December 02, 2019 10:15 AM  

They can only hold out for so long. We can see that Ginsberg is trying to hold on in the hopes that Trump doesn't win re-election. But when he does get re-elected in 2020 there's we're going to see a breaking point of the ability for some of these bureaucrats to hold on (never mind that I just don't think Ginsberg can hold on for another 5 years. She'll be lucky to hold on for one more).

Blogger Krymneth December 02, 2019 10:17 AM  

Of all the things, it is this sort of thing that gives me hope that Trump is both fighting them and winning. If there was no Deep State, or if its power was secure, there would be no need for articles like this. There is no precedent within my lifetime for this sort of forced exposure, even as meagre as this may seem at first.

When I worry that I'm grasping at straws or constructing my own filter bubble but that I might be whistling past the graveyard, this is what helps stabalize my hope. When they were firmly in control, they didn't even have to deny their existence... they were capable of simply ensuring the topic couldn't be broached. They are weakening.

Blogger Daniel December 02, 2019 10:22 AM  

Elites and the literati have openly accepted the Deep State as a phenomenon since, at the very latest, Kafka wrote The Trial in the 1920s.

Blogger Daniel December 02, 2019 10:25 AM  

The Turkish thing is a warning from Goldbug/wikipedia that anyone who says "Deep State" unironically is a cryptofascist.

Blogger Scuzzaman December 02, 2019 10:27 AM  

Thinks a Mandarin is a kind of citrus fruit ...

Blogger Quilp December 02, 2019 10:28 AM  

Only super smart boys like Jonah know of the Turkish connection, so you should accept his entire argument.

Blogger Unknownsailor December 02, 2019 10:28 AM  

Goldberg is getting lit up in the comments, it's kinda fun to watch. I don't think comments will last there much longer, can't have the plebes telling the Annointed™ what they think of them.

Blogger English Tom December 02, 2019 10:32 AM  

@Mr Mantra Man

Excellent points.

If the deep state doesn't exist, what the fuck was Epstein doing with all those video recordings?

Blogger Quilp December 02, 2019 10:38 AM  

Seriously, have any mass shooters claimed Norwegian Wood as their motive yet?

Blogger Quilp December 02, 2019 10:39 AM  

Sorry, that was meant for AOS HQ.

Blogger Doktor Jeep December 02, 2019 10:46 AM  

Did I hear an echo?

Blogger Joe Smith December 02, 2019 10:59 AM  

Typical inversion. Explain the phenomenon accurately, then wave hands around a bit and explain that only a conspiracy theorist could possibly believe that could happen here. There’s Goldberg, hand in hand with the NYT, telling us not to believe our lying eyes and that anyway the deep state - that doesn’t really exist but if we think it does... - is working for our benefit regardless.

Blogger Damelon Brinn December 02, 2019 11:13 AM  

So his argument is that a Deep State exists in the West and has enough power and arrogance to see itself as above the law, but it's paranoid to think it would use this power to do anything partisan or harmful to the nation it sees as beneath it? Oookay.

Blogger OneWingedShark December 02, 2019 11:13 AM  

swiftfoxmark2 wrote:All these neocons seem to be content to appeal to the Boomer Conservatives. Nothing that they write or say connects with any right-winger under the age of 40.
That's because they've gotten into the habit of thinking that anyone younger than a Boomer simply doesn't matter. After all, Boomers are the types who would feast on their own posterity for a vampiric shot at 'eternal life', what with their "Seventy is the new Seventeen!"-BS and their absolute glee at selling out later generations and "pulling the ladder up" after they "got theirs".

Welsh Woodsman wrote:Conniving ingrates!
Indeed so; but they are rootless, and so have no connection to us, and they have a mentality whereby they enshrine entitlement: all good happens because they deserve it, but all bad because of their 'specialness', and if you aren't one of their special-kind then you simply don't matter.

Flannel Avenger wrote:I just don't think Ginsberg can hold on for another 5 years.
I would actually bet money that she is no longer among the living.

Krymneth wrote:Of all the things, it is this sort of thing that gives me hope that Trump is both fighting them and winning. If there was no Deep State, or if its power was secure, there would be no need for articles like this. There is no precedent within my lifetime for this sort of forced exposure, even as meagre as this may seem at first.
Pray.

English Tom wrote:If the deep state doesn't exist, what the fuck was Epstein doing with all those video recordings?
The normal, perverted things.
I'm reminded of the "Don't touch him, he's intelligence" excuse that came out a while back; it perfectly illustrates why I would rather have government agents who were concerned about doing Justly rather than politics: Epstein's whole operation would have come to naught had the authorities been concerned with Justice over politics.

Blogger Ken Prescott December 02, 2019 11:27 AM  

The permanent civil service has its own interests, just like any other group that shares anybsort of commonality. To not attempt to act in furtherance of those interests would require a degree of detachment that would border (if not enter into) the realm of mental illness.

Blogger Krymneth December 02, 2019 11:28 AM  

I do pray.

But that isn't proof against me perhaps fooling myself, though I believe it influences against it.

Blogger Arthur Isaac December 02, 2019 11:44 AM  

Deep State Shogunate.

Blogger Balam December 02, 2019 11:52 AM  

@OneWingedShark
''That's because they've gotten into the habit of thinking that anyone younger than a Boomer simply doesn't matter.''

Maybe they actually bought into the line that the boomers are 'the end of history'. They are obsessed with immortality/youth instead of passing things on, since they can't imagine a people more perfected than they are.

There's also a revulsion boomers have when Vox says 'in the history books we write you Boomers will be described as an evil generation' like the idea of a world without them terrifies them.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd December 02, 2019 11:52 AM  

Welsh Woodsman wrote:What a nice way to treat those who rescued you from ovens and gave you your own country. Conniving ingrates !

No good deed goes unpunished, especially when you are doing good to the Synagogue of Satan.

Blogger NRx December 02, 2019 12:05 PM  

"I'm reminded of the "Don't touch him, he's intelligence" excuse that came out a while back; it perfectly illustrates why I would rather have government agents who were concerned about doing Justly rather than politics: Epstein's whole operation would have come to naught had the authorities been concerned with Justice over politics."

Ever heard of a honeytrap, it was always obvious Epstein was a glownagger running one. The Accosta revealation merely confirmed it and it confirmed he was US intelligence (probably CIA but I can't rule out him being tied to Mueller's people in the FBI) rather then say Mossad as some have claimed.

Spooks by nature are plotters schemers and blackmailers (but far worse in the modern US as the CIA is infected with extreme shitlibbism via the commie Brennan). Most cops by nature pretty mindlessly follow orders (far more so then say soldiers) its pretty inherent to the nature of the kind of people who want to become cops in a society with a lot of stupid laws. If they didn't look into whatever the hell Podesta and Alefantis were doing (which looked to be some kind of satanic snuff blackmail thing involving prepubescent kids a helluva lot worse then the Epstein thing) then they aren't going to care too much about Epstein's honeytrap operation which as far as we know only involves girls who 100 years ago would have been legal. You are not going to find much by way of conscience in either profession.

Blogger Jim December 02, 2019 12:16 PM  

We've known the demon we've been fighting for decades. We just didn't know its name until recently.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 December 02, 2019 12:45 PM  

tuberman wrote:15. swiftfoxmark2

Naw, he appeals to a rare few of other neocons and that's it, and this group is extremely small.


One thing you'll notice with these neocons is that they hate video games and rap music. Hell, Ben Shapiru wrote a whole book on rap and hip/hop and how bad it is.

You'd also notice that both rap and video games are the two major things that Boomers like to hate on in their spare time, mostly because they didn't have those things when they were kids.

For the record, I dislike rap music. This is all observation.

Blogger Jeroth December 02, 2019 1:04 PM  

This is particularly insane given that John McLaughlin, sitting right next to Brennan, recently told a whole room full of people that he thanked God for the Deep State, and proceeded to fawn over the CIA for their phenomenal history of honesty.

Blogger OneWingedShark December 02, 2019 1:07 PM  

Jeroth wrote:This is particularly insane given that John McLaughlin, sitting right next to Brennan, recently told a whole room full of people that he thanked God for the Deep State, and proceeded to fawn over the CIA for their phenomenal history of honesty.
If there was widespread declassification, how many Intelligence Agencies would have Treason charges levied at it?

Blogger Paul M December 02, 2019 1:24 PM  

The existence of a deep state is an inevitable consequence of term limits.

Blogger Seeingsights December 02, 2019 1:26 PM  

So I guess that Jonah Goldberg thinks that Eisenhower, who warned of the military-industrial complex, is a nutter.

I'd rather follow Eisenhower than Jonah Goldberg.

Blogger furor kek tonicus ( the British Royals are Lizard People. don't deny the IckeFLScience! ) December 02, 2019 1:31 PM  

8. Cataline Sergius December 02, 2019 9:54 AM
Why the hell can't Jonah?


because ((( Mr. Goldberg ))) is an operative of the Deep State?

is this a trick question?

Blogger Daniele Grech Pereira December 02, 2019 1:37 PM  

The deep state is the reason I am forced to install those shitty low pressure showerheads and weak-ass johns that get clogged everytime you flush.

Blogger Gettimothy December 02, 2019 2:08 PM  

This. Also we were not aware that ,'our side' was it's accomplice

Blogger Wario's Mart December 02, 2019 2:23 PM  

The deep state isn't just the bureaucracy. It's also the alliance of the intelligence services with private equity and the judiciary. Many elements of the private sector can also be considered part of the deep state. It seems to be dominated by one particular ethnicity.

Blogger pnq87 December 02, 2019 2:27 PM  

A Jew is a Jew.

Blogger The Abe December 02, 2019 2:51 PM  

Once you watch "Yes, Minister" and "Yes, Prime Minister" not a month will go by that a headline or news article won't literally ring verbatim in the back of your mind with one of the plots from the series.

Jonathan Lynn remarked on this phenomenon and summed up the reason sententiously in 2003,

"The reason that the series is still so up to date after about twenty years is that nothing fundamentally changes. That's really the point of the series, too. The only things that change are the names of the participants and the numbers (due to inflation). For instance, when we started writing Yes Prime Minister in the summer of 1986, I went to the Daily Telegraph office in Fleet Street and looked up the news stories that the paper had reported during the same week of 1956, 30 years earlier. It turned out that all the stories were exactly the same: they were about the rising tide of violence in the Middle East, was there going to be a war between Israel and its neighbors, should Britain be in Europe or not, should Britain's special relationship with America be sacrificed in the interest of being good Europeans, defence expenditure, fear of inflation/deflation/stagnation/stagflation, unemployment and so forth. In fact, although our series was perceived as highly topical at the time, the episodes were frequently written months or even more than a year before being recorded and broadcast. Topicality is an illusion."

Blogger dienw December 02, 2019 3:05 PM  

Jonah appeared just after the time of the semen stained, blue dress; his mother Lucianne and Linda Tripp were the main public characters behind and pushing Monica Lewinsky to expose Bill Clinton. Looking back, given Jonah is now backing the Deep State and probably one of its agents; I think his mother and Tripp were both acting on behalf of the deep State to get Clinton further under its control.
The payoff to Lucianne was her blog and Jonah became a "Conservative" columnist.Tripp was allegedly a writer and Lucianne her literary agent; but nothing shows up on Amazon for any of her books.

Blogger Pontificus Maximus December 03, 2019 6:33 AM  

Judas priest! What kind of bubble must this dude live in? I can’t believe I have his book, Liberal Fascism, on my bookshelf.

Blogger An Orthodox Christian December 03, 2019 4:28 PM  

Why the hell were (((they))) given the Christian Holy Land?

Blogger John Rockwell December 03, 2019 8:03 PM  

Western democracy is really rule by Bureaucracy.

Blogger RealTalk103 December 03, 2019 8:08 PM  

I hear you, same, it is a very good and informative book even though he's a dipshit.

Blogger OneWingedShark December 04, 2019 9:42 AM  

John Rockwell wrote:Western democracy is really rule by Bureaucracy.
Burearchy.

Blogger John Rockwell December 05, 2019 1:02 AM  

@OneWingedShark
Agreed.

Post a Comment

Rules of the blog
Please do not comment as "Anonymous". Comments by "Anonymous" will be spammed.

<< Home

Newer Posts Older Posts