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Thursday, March 05, 2020

Mailvox: the new Gamma

A woman in a female-dominated company writes about the reaction of her fellow employees to a new Gamma male:
Repellant to women. That phrase just keeps coming back to me, as it perfectly describes the reaction of nearly everyone at my workplace to the recent hiring of a Gamma.

We work in a small office with around 20 people, only three of whom are men. I would assess two of them as Deltas: hard working, polite, able to give – and take – a joke without causing or taking offense. The girls all love them in a brotherly sense, have little inside jokes with them, etc. However, the New Guy™ is an entirely different story. He perceives himself to be charming, witty and attractive, tries to engage all of us with “witty bon mots” and other conversational gambits.

Scuttlebutt around the lunch table yesterday consisted of, “He’s not going to last long.” “Well, I wish he would hurry up and quit then. “ “I don’t like him.” “I don’t appreciate his sense of humour”. As well as comments about what a girls’ blouse he was for nearly bursting into tears when one of the girls complained to the boss (he was eavesdropping) about how she found his habit of asking for too much personal information unsettling. He stormed out, and then had to be talked into returning to work. They should have just let him leave. I also heard through the grapevine that the reason his nose “looks like that” is that he has been punched in the face so many times over the years that it has been broken more than once.

Every afternoon I find myself muttering shut up-shut up-shut up-shut up-shut up under my breath, as his talking escalates toward the end of the day.

I’m counting down the days until the petty sabotage begins. It’s going to be awful.
If you're a gentleman who considers himself to be witty and charming, respectful of women though just ever-so-slightly roguish, and always capable of dropping the perfect movie quote at just the right moment, you should probably take this advice to heart. Yes, she is absolutely talking about you.

And shutting up is a very good place to start.

Labels: ,

103 Comments:

Blogger ScottC March 05, 2020 9:08 AM  

Listen to da womyn guys.

Blogger Opiter March 05, 2020 9:24 AM  

Ever since I introduced the concept of the SSH to my wife, she can't believe how accurate the description of a Gamma is. Guys like this used to hit on her in college and afterwards and she said they "made her skin crawl" for some reason, but she never knew why. Now she knows.

They usually tried to get into a relationship with her "sideways", as she called it, every single time. They'd try to be her friend, always asking just a few too many personal questions though, and after a while they'd try to ask her out, and be predictably stung by the inevitable rejection since she thought they wanted to just be friends.

Gamma radar in women is well tuned.

Blogger Solon March 05, 2020 9:41 AM  

I consider myself a recovering gamma.

Learning to shut the hell up is the single greatest thing I ever learned for dealing with women.

Doesnt matter if you're the smartest person in the room: no one cares, no one asked you, no you arent charming, you're annoying. If someone is wrong about something, let them be wrong, it's not your job to "fix" everything for everyone.

Also, women complain about things, not because they want you to fix it, but because they want you to connect emotionally. That was a big one for me. Dont explain to them how to fix their problem, just nod sympathetically, say "yeah, that guy is such a jerk. Yeah, that situation is really messed up, you shouldn't have to out up with that."

The benefits of shutting up are endless. It's a shame it took me like 25 years to learn.

Blogger Akulkis March 05, 2020 9:42 AM  

Of course he's a gamma. What other kind of guy would even consider working at a "female-dominated company."
Normal men want to DO things.

A "female-dominated company" is one where the rule is "don't do anything today if we can have yet another meeting about it tomorrow." (If you don't believe me, do a google search for newspaper stories about the negative experiences from woman who worked at woman-run companies.)

The gamma, having a scarcity mindset, eagerly hires into such a company, because he sees it as a "high target environment" with regards to women.

Blogger VD March 05, 2020 9:46 AM  

I consider myself a recovering gamma.

Dude, with all due respect, look at your chosen comment name....

Recover more.

Blogger Doom March 05, 2020 9:48 AM  

Any man interested in working in a cat house is dubious. I'm sure a few alphas might pull it off. But some love herding cats. I have had some experience, not my favorite. They all wanted to be favorite and I didn't like most of them. Made it clear as pleasantly as possible. Just... business.

Blogger Balkan Yankee March 05, 2020 10:01 AM  

What the hell ever happened to be polite, be competent, and date outside work?


Blogger The Masked Menace March 05, 2020 10:01 AM  

"I would assess two of them as Deltas: hard working, polite, able to give – and take – a joke without causing or taking offense. The girls all love them in a brotherly sense,"


I smiled and sadly shook my head after reading that sentence. That's says it all. Feminism and the consequential financial independence of women has absolutely devastated the social-sexual-economic value of the Delta male.

Blogger Brijasher42 March 05, 2020 10:04 AM  

Even a fool, when he keeps silent, is considered wise; When he closes his lips, he is considered prudent.
Prov 17:28

The more I think I _must_ say something in a conversation, the more I know I'm acting the fool (gamma), and work harder to shut up. Doesn't always work - hazards of being human.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd March 05, 2020 10:17 AM  

Working in the hen house? Be hard to get. Pleasant, polite, and distant as can be. Maybe connect a little with one of the granny ladies in the office.

Blogger Silent Draco March 05, 2020 10:21 AM  

Shut up, be polite, do your job. Yup.

Observed that behavior in the year that my group got moved into the edge of admin's space, during major renovations. Wished I had known the Gamma definition then, because we saw 3-4 of them in action. Scary. We stayed on the ladies' good side by feeding the printers and moving paper boxes, being polite and quiet. Side effect was our paperwork always seemed to get approved first.

Blogger Vaughan Williams March 05, 2020 10:29 AM  

Solon; gamma name because grandiose? I took it for a mark of admiration of a great man.

Blogger Jeroth March 05, 2020 10:39 AM  

Doubt that's why his nose "looks like that". A few real punches in the face, and he probably would have learned his lesson. I guess it's not impossible, but Gammas have a real knack for avoiding physical consequences.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 March 05, 2020 10:40 AM  

I wouldn't want to work in that office to begin with.

Fortunately, I'm a software developer, so most of my interactions with female co-workers is via QA. And all you have to do there is write really good code and they don't bother you.

Blogger Don't Call Me Len March 05, 2020 10:40 AM  

I’m counting down the days until the petty sabotage begins. It’s going to be awful.

You'd think at an office that is 85% female, she'd be well inured of such behavior.

Blogger RobertDWood March 05, 2020 10:43 AM  

The perfect movie quote as a tell. Excellent heuristic, thank you for pointing it out.

I don't know how you can live outside the USA and still slice through so much of what the social condition is here.

Blogger Timmy3 March 05, 2020 10:43 AM  

The first rule is don’t talk to women. So I wonder why he accepted a job in a female dominated company. He probably had no choice or thought it’ll be easy pickings. No man will last there anyways. Being a gamma gets him through the day. Work there long enough and move on.

Blogger bodenlose Schweinerei March 05, 2020 10:47 AM  

Listen to da womyn guys.

No. Figure it out for yourself, since women are likely to believe such absurdities such as "the reason his nose “looks like that” is that he has been punched in the face so many times over the years that it has been broken more than once", because men go around violently assaulting people who annoy them all the time, right? Grunt once for yes, twice for no.

Blogger VD March 05, 2020 10:55 AM  

Solon; gamma name because grandiose? I took it for a mark of admiration of a great man.

Grandiose names from intellectual history are a hallmark of the gamma. It's not "a mark of admiration" to steal someone else's identity for your own, it's an attempt to ride the coattails of their accomplishments and demonstrate what a Smart Boy you are.

The idea is for people to be impressed by his knowing who the Athenian lawmaker was and see his thoughts as being in a similar vein.

Blogger J Van Stry March 05, 2020 10:56 AM  

I took a gig at a female dominated company years ago. It was okay, the nice thing was once I did my work, no one complained if I just goofed off the rest of the day while I waited for them to prep the next batch of work for me (I worked faster than they did and actually wrote a book during my idle time).

The only person ever to complain was this gamma they hired. He bitched about me constantly - behind my back of course, he was always my 'best friend' to my face (and asking me about hitting on the women working there). My immediate boss used to shut him up by telling him that I got my work done, without errors, he should try doing the same.

She of course always told me what he was bitching to her about, what she was saying to shut him down, and wishing that the woman who owned the company would fire his ass. He was creepy as all **** and half the women walked out one day and said they wouldn't come back until he was fired.

Blogger Jack Amok March 05, 2020 10:56 AM  

If you're a gentleman who considers himself to be witty and charming, respectful of women though just ever-so-slightly roguish, and always capable of dropping the perfect movie quote at just the right moment...

The consequence of too many Gamma TV producers and scriptwriters projecting their fantasies into people's living rooms. It's a bunch of Johnny Big-lawns giving pick-up advice that works on the TV screen because the hotties are paid to read the lines.

Blogger Argus Bacchus March 05, 2020 11:06 AM  

That's hilarious.

I have, let's say, the opposite approach to women at work.

Female teacher comes to my classroom. "Wow, I love the way you are so no bullsh*t with EVERYONE and tell it like it is. Can you give me a few tips on dealing with .........?"

Me: "Thanks. No, I can't. But maybe I'll get back to me when you can bench press 425 pounds and everyone assumes you were a cop or in the military. That would help."

8 seconds later...Me: "Why are you still here?"

Blogger sammibandit March 05, 2020 11:09 AM  

@Jack Amok

Sounds exactly like Andy Samberg/Jim Peralta in Brooklyn 9-9. If you're not familiar, his zany office antics attract all the ladies.

Blogger John Best. March 05, 2020 11:13 AM  

The other day I watched the green mile, they ended up putting the gamma in a straight jacket and leaving him in a padded room. For his own safety so they didn't have to kill him.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan March 05, 2020 11:17 AM  

I must be super gamma then, I once took on a comment name of a famous person from the year 2505 "Beef Supreme" from the years of burrito wrapper shortages, garbage land slides and the great stock market crash that wiped out the equity value of the Brawndo corp. On the other hand Starbucks turned out to be a great company, and monster truck rallies had assumed their proper social status.

Blogger Daniel March 05, 2020 11:22 AM  

Recovering Gammas should just change their handles to something unclever and honest. "John in Cincinnati" for example.

Of course, fight the urge to overcorrect in huffy retaliation with something like "Crawlspace Dweller" or "Lowly Worm."

Blogger Dont Worry About Me March 05, 2020 11:27 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine March 05, 2020 11:56 AM  

"What the hell ever happened to be polite, be competent, and date outside work?"

Just Delta things.

Unfortunately for deltas, a lot of them get the shaft when women can get pretty much everything they want from them without having to trade anything. I don't blame the women, that's just what women do. I blame the weak men that let our society get like this by being unable to say no.

"The consequence of too many Gamma TV producers and scriptwriters projecting their fantasies into people's living rooms."

This in part. You see these fabrications often enough and subtly enough, people fall under sway of some combination of bandwagon fallacy and Stockholm syndrome. "Maybe the world is really like that and I've just been lucky." Not that that forces the linchpin choice, but it makes it much easier.

Blogger Doktor Jeep March 05, 2020 12:13 PM  

People like to joke about omegas shooting up a workplace. Gammas are more likely to do it IMO. You can tell if a shooter is an omega or a gamma by the target selection.

Blogger urthshu March 05, 2020 12:14 PM  

I thought of gammas being like D&D nerds with taped glasses and nasal laughs but now I'm thinking more like Rick from The Young Ones. Are the nerds Omega ? Does it go by recognizable types like that?

Blogger Zander Stander March 05, 2020 12:34 PM  

If you listen to and agree with everything Alanis Morisette sings you are apex gamma

Blogger Cataline Sergius March 05, 2020 12:38 PM  

They usually tried to get into a relationship with her "sideways", as she called it, every single time. They'd try to be her friend, always asking just a few too many personal questions though, and after a while they'd try to ask her out, and be predictably stung by the inevitable rejection since she thought they wanted to just be friends.

Dead. Solid. Perfect.

She has the Gamma Male in a nutshell.

My baby sister had a little creep like this following her around that I had to give the "talk" too.

"Sideways" is exactly how Gammas pursue women.

It must be part of their non-confrontational nature. But this is precisely how he did it.

A few normal, friendly remarks here and there and then a question about "experimenting in college."

I think (but am not certain) that this is an attempt to build intimacy before asking, "I...w-a-s...sortof kinda...uh...wondering if y-you would...well if you would...like to...uh...?"

I'll let you fill in the rest.

My point is that "sideways" is the only way Gammas CAN approach women, because they instinctively recoil from them.

If you've ever seen John Scalzi's wedding picture, she is leaning so far away from a surprise kiss on the cheek, that he can barely make physical contact. This is the man that she is going to have to have sex with that very night.

"Sideways" is it for Gammas. Women won't let them do anything else. That is only because the Gamma is taking advantage of a typical woman's non-confrontational nature.

If a woman is on to this trick and shoots him out of the saddle, he will immediately bitch about how women just don't like "nice guys" like him.

Blogger Balkan Yankee March 05, 2020 12:59 PM  

@28: " . . . a lot of them get the shaft when women can get pretty much everything they want from them without having to trade anything."

The Deltas at that female-dominated company receive paychecks, no?

Blogger Balkan Yankee March 05, 2020 1:24 PM  

@32: "If you've ever seen John Scalzi's wedding picture, she is leaning so far away from a surprise kiss on the cheek, that he can barely make physical contact. This is the man that she is going to have to have sex with that very night."

That just does not compute. If she's that repelled, why did she ever agree to marry the guy in the first place, let alone have sex with him?

Blogger Morrisfactor March 05, 2020 1:29 PM  

I spent four years as production manager for a manufacturing company with 75 women and half a dozen men. Never underestimate the ability of women to be catty, talk ill of their husbands and men, fight amongst themselves, and just generally be bitches. I've run other male dominated companies and never had similar problems. So the lady writing about the Gamma might be right - or could just as easily BE THE PROBLEM HERSELF. Just saying....

Blogger Nate73 March 05, 2020 1:34 PM  

I think it was mentioned before gammas like to do movie quotes and references a lot but I never figured out the reason for it. I guess anybody can quote The Dark Knight but it takes a Super Special Genius to quote more obscure movies?

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants March 05, 2020 1:47 PM  

Can confirm your wife's observation. Repellent is an excellent way to describe it.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants March 05, 2020 1:52 PM  

As a woman I can tell you I WOULDN'T work there. Ever.
I made the mistake briefly in the early 90s of working in a hen house, worst mistake ever and it lasted less than a year.
I've been self employed and in my job there's only one other woman in the country who does what I do.
It's perfect.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants March 05, 2020 1:55 PM  

Lol, Sargon of Akkad, hardest hit.
No surprise that he's raising his wife's children with none of his own.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants March 05, 2020 2:04 PM  

LL doesn't get that sometimes women will marry men when they think it will work in their favor financially or raise their own status because they know their own sexual market value isn't particularly high. Women know what kind of men hit on them and ask them out.
If that grouping is absent any wealthy handsome chads and you really want to marry then you deal with what you have and hope your gamble pays off.

Blogger Balkan Yankee March 05, 2020 2:24 PM  

@40: I get that some women settle for what's within reach, but physical repulsion is still physical repulsion. Perhaps I've underestimated the ability of some women to repress their negative emotions to get what they desperately want.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd March 05, 2020 2:38 PM  

Morrisfactor wrote:Never underestimate the ability of women to be catty, talk ill of their husbands and men, fight amongst themselves, and just generally be bitches.
That's normal, healthy behavior in women.
In a man, it's a disgusting pathology that Vox calls Gamma.

Blogger Ben Cohen March 05, 2020 2:46 PM  

Hey Vox, at the workplace I'm the quiet guy (only try to be polite and engage professionally) who works hard and gets the job done but is viewed as having the potential to go postal and shoot up the workplace (especially when under severe stress). How do you get rid of that vibe?

Blogger Ominous Cowherd March 05, 2020 2:55 PM  

Ben Cohen wrote:... but is viewed as having the potential to go postal and shoot up the workplace (especially when under severe stress). How do you get rid of that vibe?
Learn to deal with stress? Mellow out, quit caring about stuff you can't affect, aren't responsible for? Develop a little self control? No idea what's causing that vibe, so no idea what you should do.

Blogger Solon March 05, 2020 2:56 PM  

@VD et. al.

Actually, my online tag comes from a character from the video game Return To Krondor, that I really loved as a kid.

The Athenian statesman reference was lost on me, I just thought the character was a badass. I was like 10 years old, and I've seen no reason to change it since then.

Although Solon was a pretty great politician, to be sure, my tag isnt connected with him at all.

Blogger Silly but True March 05, 2020 3:03 PM  

Just in time to provide an example is today’s headline: “Scaramucci Says He Would Campaign for Biden If Asked.”

Which is more gamma: the magnitude of the lack of any convictions or the extent of lying about what you stand for?

Blogger Newscaper312 March 05, 2020 3:06 PM  

Dont be *too* quiet. And check your look... wearing tactical looking cargo pants all the time, boots? Or one of those people whose normal facial expression seems surely, even when you're actually not feeling that way? Worked w a guy like that. Not sure what to do about that other than try to smile more in passing. Small smiles w mouth closed, more of a mere grin. Dont go Joker on them.

Blogger Newscaper312 March 05, 2020 3:16 PM  

One of the difficulties with an overly non-confrontational streak of gamma when younger, vs getting comfortable w more direct approaches is that being higher IQ probably means you want a certain level of smarts, which are harder to judge than looks. Beyond the obvious categories of bimbo and painful nerd that is.

This is one area where online dating might have some use, in getting rid of some ambiguity why you're there in the first place. Might be looking for casual or serious, but not "friendship".

Blogger KeaponLaffin March 05, 2020 3:17 PM  

This is why I consider myself a Omega or low Delta. To personal amazement women arnt repelled by me.
The rule of: do women find him.. and that's the word. Repellent. Has always been a good rule to spot a gamma.
I'm no good with women but I've seen the charming guy that women tell me. He's creepy.
It's the trying to hard. It's the lack of self awareness.
When I was younger I was more gamma and now I see it.
Accept the Omega. One of the best comments was a guy admitting he was Omega and that's ok.
Bottom of the totem pole but at least we're on the totem pole.
Also good definition of gamma.
He acts like a woman.
Which in my theory triggers the uncanny valley.
He looks and smells like a man but acts like a whiny little bitch.

Blogger KeaponLaffin March 05, 2020 3:21 PM  

To which I would ask. Is your workplace dominated by women? If so. Find another job.
I personally find my male gamma boss being afraid of me a bit quite enjoyable. My lady boss and co-workers like me for just those qualities.

Blogger VD March 05, 2020 3:27 PM  

Perhaps I've underestimated the ability of some women to repress their negative emotions to get what they desperately want.

See: Harvey Weinstein.

How do you get rid of that vibe?

Ask a pretty female friend to pretend to be your girlfriend for a month and stop by the office three or four times. Don't over do it....

Blogger VD March 05, 2020 3:28 PM  

Actually, my online tag comes from a character from the video game Return To Krondor, that I really loved as a kid.

That is better. Better a game geek than a grandiose posturer.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 05, 2020 3:33 PM  

KeaponLaffin wrote:I personally find my male gamma boss being afraid of me a bit quite enjoyable. My lady boss and co-workers like me for just those qualities.
Found the Gamma.

Blogger Boomer55 March 05, 2020 3:41 PM  

Gas the Gammas, Mangina WAR NOW!

Blogger Solon March 05, 2020 3:46 PM  

@52: "Better a game geek than a grandiose posturer."

Been telling people for years now, "I've never been cool a day in my life, and I dont intend to start now."

There's something very freeing about knowing your place in the hierarchy, even if it isnt at the top. I wouldnt be able to stomach the politicking necessary to be an alpha even if I had the superficial signs of it.

Blogger Jeroth March 05, 2020 3:55 PM  

Ominous Cowherd wrote:That's normal, healthy behavior in women.

Gathering in cubicle farms and gossiping all day is neither normal nor healthy.

Blogger sammibandit March 05, 2020 3:58 PM  

Much wiser to ask men for advice than to ask women how to be less gamma.

Blogger Starboard March 05, 2020 4:03 PM  

"If you've ever seen John Scalzi's wedding picture, she is leaning so far away from a surprise kiss on the cheek, that he can barely make physical contact."

That picture did have a weird vibe. Kind of like pushing back a puppy that just so wants to lick your face. She obviously wanted an elegant photo, and he wanted to ham it up with the love vibes. They made it work all these years, though, so they must have reached an understanding.

Blogger ScottC March 05, 2020 4:03 PM  

at the workplace I'm the quiet guy (only try to be polite and engage professionally) who works hard and gets the job done but is viewed as having the potential to go postal and shoot up the workplace (especially when under severe stress).

Keep doing good work. That's your best defense if one of your female co-workers decides to slander you because she's "creeped out" that you do what you're paid to do. Your bosses don't want to lose a valuable employee so they won't automatically take her side.

Blogger The Only Cigar in the Box March 05, 2020 4:06 PM  

I've always thought chatting up women was useless. At best, you get a friend. At worst, you end up in a boring conversation that may well turn her into your enemy. Seems better if you are in a position to tell. Tell a story. Show her your life is interesting and funny, maybe even dangerous. Let her ask the questions about you.

Otherwise, why chat with women? The general office gal leads a wholly boring and uninteresting life full of irrational fears and (more recently) lots of resentment toward men.

Blogger Dan in Georgia March 05, 2020 4:37 PM  

Thought he was a woman when I read it before. Yup.

Blogger Uncle Maffoo March 05, 2020 4:51 PM  

Women do all manner of depraved disgusting p*rnographic acts for cash, drugs, attention, etc, all the time.

Blogger Uncle Maffoo March 05, 2020 5:06 PM  

If the boss is a gamma then they will absolutely will take the woman's side if there's even the faintest chance that doing so will induce her to date/fornicate with him.

Blogger Uncle Maffoo March 05, 2020 5:21 PM  

You chat up women to build attraction and eventually get them into bed. If that results in "friends" at best, then you are doing it wrong.

Blogger Uncle Maffoo March 05, 2020 5:35 PM  

What would be the difference in target selection?

Blogger Uncle Maffoo March 05, 2020 5:38 PM  

If the Wall is approaching and the biological clock is ticking, some women will take gamma dick instead of no dick.

Blogger Uncle Maffoo March 05, 2020 5:40 PM  

You mean obscure movies like Princess Bride, Monty Python, anything from Mel Brooks?

Blogger Uncle Maffoo March 05, 2020 5:43 PM  

Have a life outside of work. Dress well, smell good, get a better hair cut. Drive a cool car. Hit the gym and look like you lift.

Blogger Akulkis March 05, 2020 6:31 PM  

"Actually, my online tag comes from a character from the video game"

Even worse.

Blogger Akulkis March 05, 2020 6:42 PM  

"I've always thought chatting up women was useless. At best, you get a friend. At worst, you end up in a boring conversation that may well turn her into your enemy. Seems better if you are in a position to tell. Tell a story. Show her your life is interesting and funny, maybe even dangerous. Let her ask the questions about you."

Research proves the opposite.

The more you steer the conversation to being entirely about her, the more INTERESTED the woman will be in you (because you haven't revealed anything about yourself).

The less women know about you, the better they think of you. The ultimate is introducing yourself like this, "People call me .... " followed by something that's obviously not a name, like "The Machine." Then they'll go to great efforts just to find out what your first name is, if for no other reason than to be able to hang it over the heads of their acquaintances: "I know what his real name is..."

No, this isn't speculation. It was all field-tested 2 decades ago.

Blogger John Rockwell March 05, 2020 7:04 PM  

@Cataline Sergius
The wedding of Scalzi is why Gamma's continue to exist. Why did the Bride's Dad fail to prevent this?

This is a wicked union and nothing that Gammas ever deserve.

Blogger John Rockwell March 05, 2020 7:06 PM  

@Longtime Lurker

Indeed. I'd say her Father should have stopped her. Doesn't matter how rich or "high status" he may be Gammas should be incel.

Blogger Damelon Brinn March 05, 2020 7:07 PM  

You'd think at an office that is 85% female, she'd be well inured of such behavior.

What's normal coming from a woman is creepy coming from a man.

Blogger Crew March 05, 2020 7:30 PM  

Seems we need to get used to women in traditional male occupations:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/from-bioengineering-winemaking-women-advance-dozens-careers-anders/

Blogger Weouro March 05, 2020 7:47 PM  

Why do gammas so often try to elicit personal information?

Maybe as attempt to quickly create an illusion of friendship because they have no actual friends. That would explain why he was so distressed when he got busted like Wormtongue.

Blogger Saint March 05, 2020 8:18 PM  

Can anyone recommend an Omega author? I can't think of any.

Blogger Kiwi March 05, 2020 8:53 PM  

Gammas are annoying to the point where you know they would get caught in "friendly" fire, but I've always been more suspicious and carefully observant, from a distance, of Omegas in the workplace. They're social outcasts that have nothing to lose.

Blogger ScottC March 05, 2020 8:57 PM  

Ted Kaczyinski, Roger Ebert, J.D. Salinger, Tyler Cowen, P.G. Wodehouse.

Blogger sammibandit March 05, 2020 9:00 PM  

How does one get the heebie jeebies from reading "lady boss"? I don't know but I just did.

Blogger Shane Bradman March 05, 2020 9:04 PM  

Never try to have an honest chat with a gamma. They don't care about honesty, and look for ways to twist your words against you. Slimy bastards. Got burned recent because someone asked for my opinion and like a fucking retard I told them. In normal company, this is fine. Among gammas this is a big mistake because they will use everything against you to try steal your position.

Blogger RedJack March 05, 2020 10:00 PM  

That has served me well on projects. Be nice to the old hen, be quiet to the cats, and never meet outside of work with any women from work

Blogger Jack Amok March 05, 2020 10:07 PM  

Can anyone recommend an Omega author? I can't think of any.

Getting published promotes them to Delta.

Blogger Steve Canyon March 05, 2020 10:10 PM  

She reached an understanding. He fell in line for the promise of an occasional sniff.

Which is probably a far better deal than he would have gotten from anyone else.

Blogger Jack Amok March 05, 2020 10:23 PM  

P.G. Wodehouse.

Hmmmmm, he's an interesting case. Tons of Gamma signals, but some distinct awareness of female solipsism and other negative traits. Gammas do tend to have a bi-polar view of women - worshipful but resentful (if you've ever heard the Chris Isaak song "Pretty Girls Don't Cry" you might recognize this - Isaak is not a Gamma, but he's an observant songwriter). Wodehouse's wife was no looker, but as far as I know, she was loyal. An unusually self-aware Gamma?

I know Vox has read Wodehouse - curious to hear his thoughts if his exile from the gym has freed up some time.

Blogger Dont Worry About Me March 05, 2020 11:03 PM  

Funny that Gammas fail that hard in that setting too.

I've developed a similar disgust of Gammas that is exacerbated by three of my "peers" fitting the description.

My boss is an all time great kind of guy in my field. I have only really considered him a mentor out of the pool of other former bosses. He doesnt really stop me when I go after these three guys because he knows I am strong enough to keep the house in order.

It's taxing. Along with gamma subordinates. Stressful too, because of the lies and attempted manipulation. It's funny at times, dont get me wrong, especially when they attempt theatrics.

But it sucks.

If there's any advice I could give people with leadership goals, it is purge Gammas out of leadership. So much quibbling, complicating the simple, making shit up that numbers dont back up, you cant give power or freedom to those jackasses.

Even as subordinates they are damn near useless. At least women smell and look good when they act like that, but they can get in the way too.

Business is War. And Gammas are not suited for either.

Blogger Dont Worry About Me March 05, 2020 11:08 PM  

Then humiliate them. Publicly. Get them out in the open and call them out

Blogger JamesB.BKK March 06, 2020 12:01 AM  

Is that one about the little bunny and the holy hand grenade and rules for counting considered obscure? The only-a-flesh-wound guy? A question with huge penalty for an incorrect response about the air speed of a kind of swift (or maybe swallow) that was turned back on the questioner by a clarification request? Those were pretty good jokes.

Blogger JamesB.BKK March 06, 2020 12:04 AM  

Which of your coworkers told you that? Could be projection. Unless you mutter a lot.

Blogger liberranter March 06, 2020 12:43 AM  

Any man interested in working in a cat house is dubious.

You took the words right off my fingertips.

Blogger John Rockwell March 06, 2020 2:22 AM  

Shane Bradman wrote:Never try to have an honest chat with a gamma. They don't care about honesty, and look for ways to twist your words against you. Slimy bastards. Got burned recent because someone asked for my opinion and like a fucking retard I told them. In normal company, this is fine. Among gammas this is a big mistake because they will use everything against you to try steal your position.

They don't deserve to be part of any social group nor do they deserve to have any wife or girlfriend.

Then the Gamma may be solved.

Blogger SciVo March 06, 2020 4:10 AM  

@ Ben Cohen:

How do you get rid of that vibe?

I second the advice of Uncle Maffoo, Ominous Cowherd, Newscaper312, and VD.

But I don't know what level of advice you need right now. You didn't give us enough info. So, just in case:

* Good posture, back straight, shoulders back and relaxed.

* No muttering to yourself.

* Maintain a blandly pleasant expression. If this is new to you, then practice with a mirror; with your eyes shut, make what you think is that expression, then open your eyes. If your expression immediately sours, then you did it wrong and it was unpleasant to look at. When you get it right, then practice until you know how the muscles feel from the inside and you can consistently get it right.

* In hallways, blandly pleasant eye contact around 10' and a greeting (at least a nod) at 5'. For men, better if you can actually remember his name, like "Hey Luke." For women, just "Hey." You're working your way out of creepy, so let them see you having good relationships with men first.

* When standing near a guy for something like he's waiting for the coffee after you, try making small talk. (If you can only do one thing at a time, then never mind, and focus on getting your coffee.) People like talking about themselves, so e.g. on a Friday, "So Luke, got any plans for the weekend?" Be prepared to actively listen with sympathetic or appreciative noises in the appropriate places, and then have an answer ready for if he reciprocates. (Speaking of which, reciprocating questions is a rapport-building technique that you should also use.)

* Older women, past the age of pulchritude, are also good for this. Like men, they won't assume that just because you're talking to them, you must be hitting on them. (This does not apply to the "naughty grandma" type who is still checking out young men's butts; easy to tell from tight clothes and heavily made up to look younger. Avoid!)

Blogger Azure Amaranthine March 06, 2020 7:13 AM  

"The Deltas at that female-dominated company receive paychecks, no?"

What makes you think I was talking about that one specifically? Even if I were, there's little chance that deltas in that situation aren't taking up more than their share of slack, and that's apart from their pay being lower because of women in the workforce.

Blogger Avalanche March 06, 2020 7:54 AM  

@34 "she is leaning so far away from a surprise kiss on the cheek, that he can barely make physical contact."

Guys, guys, she was more likely wanting to make sure he did not mess up her perfect (usually expensively done) make-up/appearance on her wedding day, which is about *forever pictures* and being feted by everyone she knows -- and not so much about making a solemn vow to the man. Besides, she had probably already slept with him looooong before the wedding!

Blogger Shane Bradman March 06, 2020 7:59 AM  

@82. I get very big social reject vibes from Slavoj Zizek.

Blogger Avalanche March 06, 2020 8:12 AM  

@60 "Tell a story. Show her your life is interesting and funny, maybe even dangerous. Let her ask the questions about you."

In the 'trad dating' world, where I used to say I was "rescuing women from feminism, one woman at a time"; we call that peacocking: NOT in any derogatory sense.

Men are supposed to come and 'display' for both daddy and daughter that he was worthy. Nowadays, daddy is often not involved alas, but a man is showing the woman he possibly wants why he is the correct one for her to accept.

Women used to be taught, and I was teaching these poor brainwashed "modern" women, that this was the man showing them why and how he would be a good mate/husband. Rather than 'choosing with her eyes,' women should LISTEN for a good deal. Was he going to be a good solid Delta or Bravo; or did she want to gamble on a alpha (sigma) or 'settle' for a gamma? Didn't have those terms, of course-- thank you Dark Lord!-- but the concept holds.

Some wise advisor described girls as having a list about 85 'characteristics' long for what she wanted in a husband; up-to-and-including the kind of CAR he would drive and the kinds of jokes he didn't think were funny. Men, of course, want (wanted?) beauty, kindness, motherliness for the future kinds, and some version of obedience/acceptance: he was the captain, she would be the first mate!

Forcing these girls to cut their lists down to 3, 4, or at absolute most 5 "items" -- helped them recognize what they NEEDED in a mate, not what society had misled them into wanting. (Mine turned out to be: stronger and smarter than I am -- and that was it. The rest was negotiable. But I was in my 40s by then.)

We did decide that 'him wanting children' was a non-negotiable: non-negotiables were not included in the 3-4 must-haves. A lot of women are recoverable, if only you can cut them out of the herd and induce them to look farther than the wedding day!

Blogger NateM March 06, 2020 8:23 AM  

#ThatHappened

Blogger Ominous Cowherd March 06, 2020 11:33 AM  

RedJack wrote:That has served me well on projects. Be nice to the old hen, be quiet to the cats, and never meet outside of work with any women from work
This, 100%.

Blogger The Only Cigar in the Box March 06, 2020 12:53 PM  

@70: I'm just going from my own field research on this one. Had a couple of buddies that were really great at getting ladies interested. Both were good about making themselves out to be great. One of them was not particularly handsome or rich (hell, he cleaned carpets for a living), but he could tell a story and make it funny. It was always about him. I watched the women encircle him at parties as he recounted his misadventures in the Alaska wilderness and the deserts of Utah. Guy was dating a pretty hot 18 year old when he was 34.

Blogger Factory March 06, 2020 1:53 PM  

@76 Jerry Pournelle, Stephen King, ....actually, damn near every author is a Gamma. Alphas and Sigmas dont usually care to study people enough to write good characters.

Blogger Uncle Maffoo March 06, 2020 1:57 PM  

Game works if you know what you're doing.

Blogger Stocky Anglo March 06, 2020 2:09 PM  

The gamma stories are always my favorite on here, there is almost always a reveal in the comment section to hunt for. As an aside we used to just call dudes that acted that way little bitches or punk bitches. Thanks to SSH terms we all have a new word we can say at work without getting fired. Thanks Vox for coming up with creative solutions to life's most annoying problems.

A question that would be fun to explore. Where does the 'Bro' type most often found on the hierarchy?

Blogger Jack Amok March 06, 2020 2:22 PM  

Guys, guys, she was more likely wanting to make sure he did not mess up her perfect (usually expensively done) make-up/appearance on her wedding day, which is about *forever pictures* and being feted by everyone she knows -- and not so much about making a solemn vow to the man.

You thought you were disagreeing, didn't you?

Blogger JamesB.BKK March 07, 2020 1:44 AM  

Be nice to the old hen, be quiet to the cats, and never meet outside of work with any women from work

Join the smoke breaks.

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