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Sunday, March 22, 2020

Panic is not the problem

Absolute idiocy is the real problem. And most people are idiots.
I just got off the phone with doctors in Bergen County, New Jersey who told me their hospitals are saying doctors & nurses will be *disciplined* for wearing protective gear, including masks. This is dangerous and may be illegal. And their stories are alarming...

Hospital physicians tell me this is happening across the state. Nurses worry they could be fired if they wear protective gear, but worry if they don’t they’re putting themselves & patients at risk. It comes as NJ has an explosion in COVID cases, particularly Bergen County. I've heard other hospitals nationwide are enforcing this policy, too. Who knows how rampant it is? Some internal documents we obtained suggest certain federal restrictions by the CDC may be guiding this decision.

If that's the case, @realdonaldtrump should immediately intervene & prohibit public hospitals from being able to threaten their staff for wearing protective equipment during this crisis, including gloves and masks. This is urgent and common sense. And it will save lives.

Folks have been asking for what the “explanation” is for this decision. We’ve been told the hospital administrators are concerned patients & visitors would be unduly alarmed & fearful if they saw health care workers wearing protective clothing & masks.
I am always very skeptical of decisions that are supposedly made on the basis of "preventing panic". In most cases, that translates as "the denial of information in order to prevent rational self-interested behavior on the part of the correctly informed".

And no, it's not just rumors out of New Jersey, as this case of an Oklahoma nurse fired for wearing a mask will demonstrate:
Kevin Readel worked at the Oklahoma Heart Hospital South for over five years. That was until Wednesday when he claims he was fired for wearing a droplet isolation mask.

"It was to protect myself, to protect the patient and to protect my family,” Readel said.

Readel worked in the Cardiac Care Unit, an ICU area for the heart hospital. Readel said he didn’t wear it all the time, but he was wearing it while putting an IV in a patient on Monday.

"I was trying to maintain some level of barrier,” he said when referencing himself and the patient.

According to Readel, his supervisor approached him and allegedly told him he needed to take it off, stating that it could cause fear and panic among the patients and staff.
Fear and panic are not the problems. Infectious disease and a failure to take basic precautions are. What are they going to do for an encore, ban surgeons from washing their hands prior to an operation for fear that impious ablutions could cause the surgery gods to frown upon the surgery?

We literally had an anesthesiologist WALK OUT because our Chief of nursing refused him having a mask.  

He did the right thing. All medical workers should refuse to work under unnecessarily unsafe conditions. They are on the front lines and their health should be the absolute top priority of everyone involved.

UPDATE: It should not be surprising to learn that the CDC's policies are insanely counterproductive. It's being run by corrupt Deep State clowns:
As the coronavirus spread to all fifty states over the last two months, the Trump administration faced mounting criticism for the lack of reliable, widely accessible test kits. Now, a former senior federal health official nominated to his post by President Trump, alleges that the delays in testing occurred because leaders at the Centers for Disease Control “lied” to the president, and to Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar, about the center’s ability to produce the kits.

In making the allegation, Chris Meekins, a former assistant secretary of Health and Human Services for preparedness and response, cited private discussions he has held in recent weeks with top federal officials and physicians and scientists employed in private-sector industries that are active in the anti-coronavirus effort. Meekins described his contacts on the White House Coronavirus Task Force as “friends,” some of whom he has known for many years.

“From my conversations with members of the task force, both inside and outside the administration,” Meekins told Sinclair in an exclusive interview, “The U.S. government, from Secretary Azar to the president relied on the Centers for Disease Control to produce a test; they failed....CDC said they would handle it....What we have found out is that these leaders at the CDC lied to both the HHS secretary and, by extension, the president. And as a result the nation got weeks behind.”
This is yet another reason why the Swamp must be drained.

Labels: ,

130 Comments:

Blogger TheMaleRei March 22, 2020 10:10 AM  

Man Alive. Even the PRC allows their health professionals to wear such gear. This sort of decree sounds like something out of the madness of North Korea.

Then again this is New Jersey.

Blogger Bellomy March 22, 2020 10:11 AM  

I live in NJ. All I can say is that if this is a problem, it's not a common one. If anything everybody I know would be much more upset if doctors WWREN'T wearing face masks. As a retail worker, even customers are.

So I highly doubt this is a thing in any widespread way and more one idiot boss at a hospital trying to make himself look good by doing something different.

Blogger MATT March 22, 2020 10:11 AM  

Maniacs. Healthcare workers and anyone handling food should be wearing gloves and masks all the time, pandemic or not. What a clownworld. Now I really want Trump to declare Martial Law.

Blogger VD March 22, 2020 10:20 AM  

I highly doubt this is a thing in any widespread way

You're wrong. It's a policy based on a CDC directive that prioritizes "avoiding patient fear and panic" over the safety of the medical workers. This is an obvious and logical consequence of living in a society that puts feelings ahead of facts.

Blogger JACIII March 22, 2020 10:24 AM  

No docs or nurses are going to be "fired" for long. Phone calls begging them to return in 3 - 2 - 1....

Blogger SPQRCincinnatus March 22, 2020 10:31 AM  

Bergen County, NJ is apparently one of the most "diverse" places in America. At least they have that great accomplishment going for them. Diversity is always a strength, especially during a deadly pandemic. #diversityisourstrength

Blogger Stilicho March 22, 2020 10:33 AM  

K shift underway. Let's hope it isn't temporary. And that tar and feathers make a comeback for special idiots like those prohibiting doctors and nurses from wearing protective gear. Along with them, let's include the let's-collape-the-economy-to-hurt-Trump crowd like Fauci (nice love letter to Hillary about Benghazi testimony by the way...so brave) and that chicken little that AC quites ad naseum, Feigl Ding.

Blogger Silly but True March 22, 2020 10:36 AM  

The AIDS clinic worker who gave up first test chance to others and later died before her eventual test results returned is sensationally making rounds:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nola.com/news/coronavirus/article_bdc4e802-6b90-11ea-a747-832e94bc7f56.amp.html
“... after being told she was low-risk for the serious disease... Noel Twilbeck, the CEO of CrescentCare, confirmed on Saturday that Ott was a former employee and that she had died...”

But here’s the real problem:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nola.com/entertainment_life/eat-drink/article_c80fb9ee-fbf2-5fef-8997-72448d6d7c73.amp.html
“He met his future husband, Noel Twilbeck, through the gay bowling league shortly after he moved here.”

Don’t rely on your gay boss to reasonably consider the gay habits of the gay clients of one’s gay clinic to reasonably assess your risk. The first problem being that why did the victim remotely think that gays in New Orleans who already had cause to use an AIDS clinic would be following best practice social distancing guidelines to begin with? Or could the victim have expected to already be at higher risk to begin with?

Blogger Iamblichus March 22, 2020 10:37 AM  

Vox is right this covid thing appears to be hurting rather than helping the beast. Feels like the NPCs spiralling similar to trump election

Blogger Sillon March 22, 2020 10:41 AM  

Political correctness will kill us all.

Blogger Bellomy March 22, 2020 10:41 AM  

I am reading the directives now.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/ppe-strategy/face-masks.html

Are you referring to thw socument saying that hospitals can co sider asking employees to remove their face mask in public areas?

Because it otherwise requires the use of facemasks in medical capacities and doesn't mention panic. I think, though I may be wrong, it's to conserve facemasks.

Blogger Bellomy March 22, 2020 10:42 AM  

In a crisis use of facemasks is asked to be limited even more, to save masks.

If doctors are requiring people not to wear them they are deliberately abusing the system, or I'm reading the wrong thing.

Blogger urthshu March 22, 2020 10:43 AM  

Should've said he didn't get the flu shot. PPE is mandatory for anti vaxxers

Blogger Balkan Yankee March 22, 2020 10:43 AM  

The supermarket workers where I shop (inside The Capital Beltway) are now starting to wear masks. And medical professionals who are in close daily contact with Covid-19 cannot?

Our medical elites are acting like pure lunatics. Collective patience with this stupidity is going to disappear faster than toilet paper and paper towels from store shelves.

Blogger Akulkis March 22, 2020 10:47 AM  

Scratch One Boomer

Blogger Meanoldbasterd March 22, 2020 10:48 AM  

It's spotty... I work for a major health care organization in the Midwest, and they are running out of protective gear system wide!!

Blogger The Cooler March 22, 2020 10:53 AM  

Some internal documents we obtained suggest certain federal restrictions by the CDC may be guiding this decision

I would like to see these internal documents, as hospitals telling their staff to not wear PPE is contradictory to the (public-facing) CDC guidelines: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/infection-control/control-recommendations.html

Anyway, if all of this is something more than anomalous, overzealous, hospital administrators going full turnip, the President will certainly be having none of it.

These stories could also be informational subterfuge to bolster the growing "Not Enough Equipment" narrative; the purpose of which is to make the Trump administration look as incompetent and out-of-it's-depths as is possible.

Blogger Nihil Dicit March 22, 2020 10:55 AM  

administrators are concerned patients & visitors would be unduly alarmed & fearful

Most people arrive at the hospital convinced their case of the sniffles is presaging a painful, lingering death anyhow. Pandering to the LCD is bad enough in normal times, but this is patently criminal.

If anything everybody I know would be much more upset

And with what percentage of the population of New Jersey are you personally acquainted? While stupid, this policy is not invented out of whole cloth, and never forget our foreign friends, with their poor grasp of Engrish and confusion about living somewhere that isn't a feudalistic 14th century cesspit.

Blogger MichaelJMaier March 22, 2020 11:01 AM  

Didn't someone on here say doctors don't even use masks in surgery any more?

Blogger Rebel Shoat March 22, 2020 11:03 AM  

My nurse mother-in-law was told the same thing at the start of the Aids epidemic in the 80s. No gloves allowed when working with HIV positive patients.

Blogger Other Josh March 22, 2020 11:03 AM  

Vox, your earlier post about coronavirus and medication got me researching last night. People are freaking out over the ACE2 receptor, because that is the receptor that science/media has identified as the "docking station" the virus uses to infect a cell.

I found a research paper titled "Individual Variation of the SARS-Cov2 Receptor ACE2 Gene Expression and Regulation" that gave some good observational info. (SARS-Cov2 = COVID-19 = coronavirus)

This highest death rate has been among old men who have other chronic health issues. This is also the group with the LOWEST amount of ACE2 receptors. ACE2 decrease with age. This means children have the highest amount of ACE2 receptors, yet they are also the group least affected by the disease. Interestingly, women have more ACE2 receptors than men, and women are suffering a lower morbidity/severity from the coronavirus.

ACE2 receptors may be the docking station for the disease, but that does not mean having more ACE2 receptors is a bad thing. ACE2 receptors also serve as repressors for inflammation-causing agents within the body. The theory is, if a person (i.e. old man) has few ACE2 receptors, and those are all tied up by the COVID-19 disease, there is no longer repression of the inflammation-causing agents and so severe tissue damage in the respiratory tissue begins to occur. Having alot of ACE2 receptors is a good thing, because the theory is there are adequate receptors to still repress inflammation, even though the disease is "docking" to some of the ACE2 receptors.

Summary statement from paper: "Our results established a counter argument against the speculation that high
ACE2 is a culprit in CoVID-19 outcome, and on the contrary supports a protective role of high ACE2 expression against SARS-CoV2 fatality (Fig. 3h)."

This disease is so new... still so much to be figured out.

Anonymous Anonymous March 22, 2020 11:05 AM  

Any administrator pushing this should be sold to the Comanche.

There are a lot of bureaucrats and middle managers who have no idea what's coming. The return of such traditions as tarring and feathering. If they're lucky.

Blogger doctrev March 22, 2020 11:05 AM  

While the overt reason is "avoiding fear and panic" from the scary masks, more likely the panic comes when you see a doctor that ISN'T wearing a mask. Under sane conditions, that would be a sign that not even healthcare workers have masks, therefore the thing is less controlled than official media proclaim. Bellomy touched on this briefly: that mindset is more common than you think, and will cause major panic in underprepared urban centers.

Now the question is, what's the President going to do about it. I'm hoping for martial law, rebuilding American industry, and putting the catamites who suggested outsourcing medical equipment to China to a well-deserved deaht.

Blogger JG March 22, 2020 11:17 AM  

The unstated problem is that protective clothing is in very short supply due mostly to the fact that it is manufactured in China, and imports of same are down 40% because this protective clothing was used in China instead of being exported.

My wife's office has exactly four sets of full pandemic style clothing (masks, gloves, googles, coveralls) available for a three doctor office. No one expected, and no one prepared, for the havoc that CoronaChan has wrought. They do have a good supply of masks and gloves (for now) but these are rationed for patients who come in with infectious diseases. Suspected coronavirus patients aren't even allowed to see a doctor, instead, the infectious disease dept is called and the patient is hauled away to be run though the gauntlet set up at the mega hospital nearby that is equipped to handle the pandemic.

I think most of the problems described here are unstated supply problems with masks and gloves, and not due wanting to prevent panic. Still MPAI.

Blogger Bellomy March 22, 2020 11:17 AM  

I live in NJ, and work in retail. Some people are walking around practically in riot gear here. Almost all use gloves, a large proportion use masks.

It has nothing to do with people being dumb, it's about people being scared.

Blogger Noah B. March 22, 2020 11:20 AM  

Here, in north Texas, there have been delays in getting PPE to health care workers because there is a tedious fitting and testing process prior to issuing masks. For a while they were told not to wear unapproved PPE, supposedly because it is unsafe. Now those rules are widely ignored and it's common to see doctors and nurses wearing off-the-shelf paper N95 masks while haven't been issued PPE that complies with all the bureaucratic mandates.

All of these stupid rules resulted in most doctors and nurses being entirely unprotected throughout February and into early March, and there is no question that many health care workers here got infected as a direct result.

Blogger Doktor Jeep March 22, 2020 11:24 AM  

Oh hey this is what the CDC and NIH were caring about in December.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/health/2019/12/16/congressional-deal-could-fund-gun-violence-research-first-time-since-s/%3foutputType=amp


This is why there is practically no civilization as far as I'm concerned. When retards vote, bad policy results.
When that bad policy can result in catching a potentially fatal illness, then FINALLY retards voting have managed to do it to themselves. And who votes for these politicians? City people and retard boomers mostly. Usually it's somebody else getting screwed. Which is really all that democracy amounted to.


Will there be any accountability? Of course not! Why, we all have to pull together now, tee hee.




Blogger Claudio March 22, 2020 11:25 AM  

This exact thing was reported about medical personnel in Nicaragua last week. The suspicions are that the Sandinista government wants to spread the infection in order to play victim in the international community and get passes on sanctions and debt. I can’t imagine what the logic would be within the USA.

Blogger VFM #7634 March 22, 2020 11:26 AM  

Vox is right this covid thing appears to be hurting rather than helping the beast. Feels like the NPCs spiralling similar to trump election

President Trump's approval rating on COVID has jumped 10 points in the past week. It's becoming blatantly obvious even to the average American that it's the Democrats and other similar NPCs, not Trump, who are making matters worse with their strange combination of draconian crackdowns on businesses combined with dangerous feelgood policies like this one. (Or the "hug-a-Chinese" thing in Italy, which if it had done in the U.S., would've almost certainly been done so by Democrats as well.)

I mean, ordering medical staff not to wear protective gear because of muh feelings? F--- that!

Blogger Unknownsailor March 22, 2020 11:28 AM  

I look at it this way:

It is US tradition that in times of peace, administrators always wind up in charge. People who don't make waves, people who advance through connections rather than competence. US Military, same deal. When a fight comes, the administrators always fail, because they are not fit to fight. Warfighters always supplant administrators when war breaks out.
I doubt the CDC is any different. Those who clearly cannot handle the current task at hand, who have priorities that are not 100% centered on finding and defeating the enemy we currently face, need to be shunted aside and replaced by those who understand the mission. This will probably require rapid promotion of these competent people to positions of very high authority. Eisenhower did not start WWII as a general, and neither did Patton.

Blogger Up from the pond March 22, 2020 11:30 AM  

I was assistant to a hospital administrator, later to a neurology department. Hospital administration is SNAFU even in the best of times. We always used to joke, make a will before being admitted. It wasn't really a joke, though.

Blogger Jack Amok March 22, 2020 11:30 AM  

I haven't heard any of my friends mention being told not to wear masks in WA. Plenty of complaints about a shortage of masks, but nothing about being ordered not to wear them. Not sure what to make of that.

As far as the CDC goes, or frankly the performance of most government agencies, after seeing Trump's first term, how could anyone credibly argue against new presidents routinely firing everyone in an upper management position at every agency upon taking office.

Blogger Damelon Brinn March 22, 2020 11:35 AM  

I am reading the directives now.

Directives that could get people in trouble later generally aren't put in black-and-white. They're passed along in deniable ways so that everyone knows what the orders are but they can't be traced back to a clear origin.

There's a great bit on that in Atlas Shrugged, where VIPs on a train are demanding that it go through a tunnel. All the train company people know it'll be a disaster for engineering reasons, but they also know they'll be fired if they don't comply. Each person in the chain of command manages to pass down the order to send the train in a way that he can later deny or claim he meant differently. By the time it gets to the local engineer at the bottom, he knows they've all set him up to take the blame.

I'd expect the CDC and high-level officials are doing the same thing here, letting it be known masks aren't allowed but doing it in a way that the only ones held responsible for it later will be local hospital administrators.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd March 22, 2020 11:36 AM  

Bellomy wrote:It has nothing to do with people being dumb, it's about people being scared.
Smart people are scared, and being cautious. Proverbs 22:3.

Blogger cecilhenry March 22, 2020 11:36 AM  

Rain dances in the hospital parking lot to invoke the sky spirit protection in 3, 2, 1....


What the hell happened to basic universal precautions which are used literally every day????


Blogger Mr.MantraMan March 22, 2020 11:37 AM  

We Deplorables have our problems, but put yourself in a Blue Hive Bugmantopia, half the residents have IQs below a very low average, think whites are evil witch doctors and magic rules the Earth, the other half are white, jewish, and Asian and they pretend to reality outside of their Bugman existence, but our rules and customs stem from a time when the average IQ was 100 and people trusted their betters while using discernment.

Now in Bugmantopia narrative rules the day. I'll say again, America is a 3000 mile wide Jonestown.

Blogger Emmett Fitz-Hume March 22, 2020 11:39 AM  

The Cooler wrote:Some internal documents we obtained suggest certain federal restrictions by the CDC may be guiding this decision

I would like to see these internal documents, as hospitals telling their staff to not wear PPE is contradictory to the (public-facing) CDC guidelines: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/infection-control/control-recommendations.html

Anyway, if all of this is something more than anomalous, overzealous, hospital administrators going full turnip, the President will certainly be having none of it.

These stories could also be informational subterfuge to bolster the growing "Not Enough Equipment" narrative; the purpose of which is to make the Trump administration look as incompetent and out-of-it's-depths as is possible.



Agreed. I just checked with my wife. For reference, she's an RN. She took a promotion to an administrative position last year but got 'drafted' or voluntold so to speak because her area of expertise (15+ years) in pulmonary medicine. She works for two hospitals in NYS (at one she is per diem), both of which are dealing with Wuhan virus as we speak. Neither are in The City, though. She's been working for the last ten days straight. Today is her first day off and its a half day.

She knows of no policy saying anything about the masks not being worn to not cause panic. She does know about the rapidly changing, as in every single day, CDC guidelines due to the PPE shortages. At her hospitals, they must wear the masks and other PPE per CDC guidance but they are also being asks to wear the same mask or potentially dirty masks, and to wash/clean them were possible or feasible. The area hospitals have recently put out calls on the local news and social media for people to donate what they have to the hospitals to protect staff. She has heard of directives in other hospitals to not wear masks in public areas because they need them more in the ED, ORs and ICUs. This is also theoretically because people are being directed to not come to the hospital through normal channels if they believe they are sick with Wuhan.

Most people being stupid, however, are doing so anyway. They are also lying about symptoms to bypass Wuhan protocols.

Then again, this is coming from NJ. Who knows what is coming out of there? I've seen other panicked reports as well from that state.

But the CDC is definitely not helping much. Its Deep State all the way down. And I suspect, its talking one way with the Virus task Force press conferences and one way, in private with the MSM.

Blogger Scuzzaman March 22, 2020 11:42 AM  

Anyone with any sense would be more alarmed by the lack of precautions, but sense is in short supply at the best of times, as the main story shows.

The CDC is a quintessential swamp creature. It should be nuked from orbit.

Blogger Eric Waite March 22, 2020 11:42 AM  

I live in the northwest corner of NJ, and the stretch of what is considered "essential" workforce is ridiculous. I can understand contractors responsible for maintaining infrastructure s(electricians,plumbers, truck drivers, etc) still needing to do what they do, but pretty much all construction workers will be out working. My company does oil tank installs, removals and environmental remediation services. We should only be doing emergency spill response and continuing to monitor filter stations where fuel continuation is in a water supply. These could both be done without close contact to anyone other than co-workers on a 2-4 man crew. We should Landscapersnot be doing tank installs or removals so someone can finalize permits to sell their house,and roofers, landscapers, and masons should not be adding to traffic at gas stations and convenience stores right now.

Blogger Tallawampus March 22, 2020 11:42 AM  

There is a shortage of PPE. We have guidance in place for when and where to use our limited PPE. You can't just wear it because you think you may be exposed. We're saving it for the people who ARE being exposed. The guy in the cardiac ICU likely wasn't taking care of a China Virus patient and was wasting an N95 mask on someone low risk.

We haven't had anyone tell us not to wear protective gear *when necessary*.

Blogger John Rockwell March 22, 2020 11:43 AM  

TheMaleRei wrote:Man Alive. Even the PRC allows their health professionals to wear such gear. This sort of decree sounds like something out of the madness of North Korea.

Then again this is New Jersey.


The reason is Leninism is very good at organizing and ensuing loyalty and this is why:
https://spandrell.com/2017/11/14/biological-leninism/

By elevating naturally low-status people into positions of power they are able to ensure absolute loyalty and coordination with the party. Hence why the Soviet Union was able to operate such an oppressive state.


Blogger Oswald March 22, 2020 11:49 AM  

Just heard they are issuing passes to travel here where I am at. Midwest. Picked up Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, and started reading. Big book, should keep me busy for awhile and it seemed like a good time.

Blogger justaguy March 22, 2020 11:54 AM  

No one is actively reporting except a few right wing sites that national stockpile had hundreds of millions of masks in reserve before 2009 Swine Flu. They were used then and not replaced. We can't link this shortage to Obama. Trump just says he inherited the problem.

Blogger Gregory the Tall March 22, 2020 11:56 AM  

I think they just do not have enough masks and do not want to admit it to avoid panic. Remember, a simple paper masks only lasts for an hour, doctors (and maybe nurses,too) are often putting a fresh one on for each new patient. So one doctor may easily go through dozens of masks in one day.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd March 22, 2020 12:02 PM  

Not sure I've ever seen actual panic.

Many times I've noticed that ``For your safety'' usually means ``To save us money,'' and ``to prevent panic'' usually means ``they won't jump if they see the long drop with rocks at the bottom.''

Someone else said that panic is an official term meaning the serfs do what's good for them, instead of what's good for the Ruling Class. That pretty well sums it up.

Blogger JamesB.BKK March 22, 2020 12:11 PM  

Wasn't one of the journo-lists haranguing Trump yesterday with quotes from doctors in Podunk complaining about not having masks? And when these reporters repeatedly ask why a country as "rich and powerful" as the US can't produce this stuff by the millions on a dime, why doesn't Trump respond with, "Outsourcing, excessive permitting, offshoring, and reliance on strangers to make our goods, all which your network / paper has advocated for?" Every time.

Blogger Doug Cranmer March 22, 2020 12:14 PM  

Longtime Lurker wrote:The supermarket workers where I shop (inside The Capital Beltway) are now starting to wear masks.

I was in a large supermarket yesterday in Vancouver topping up. It was noticeably busy but they had people lining up for checkouts organized and starting back from a line. A couple of security guards kept things moving well.

Two things.

1. When I did get to the checkout two people tried to cut in because they just had a few groceries and got pissy when security told them to go to the back like everyone else.
Guess the nationality.

2. This is a kicker. A guy stocking shelves was drinking out of a cup, tea or coffee, then hiding the cup back in a shelf. Wiping his mouth. Then touching items as he stacked them. Another drink. Another mouth wipe. You get the picture.

FUCKING GUESS THE NATIONALITY.

Blogger Johnny March 22, 2020 12:16 PM  

Things that I believe to be true:

The medical community needs to be given priority with safety equipment because you don't want them sick in the middle of a disease crises. Also, as society places them on the front line in fighting the disease, they should be given a priority.

Real protection requires a N95 certified mask. The lessor ones are not of that much value in keeping from getting the disease. Guessing about it, the not so good masks are probably useful on the people who already have the disease because they will pick up the larger moisture particulate that we all produce when doing things like sneezing.

The CoronaVirus stuff is fundamentally a lung disease. The way most people get it is by touching the lips or nose with a hand. All ordinary people do that a lot and reflexively. A mask is helpful because it will keep you from touching your face. On a personal level I have taken to wearing the surgical style plastic gloves when out and around. They pick up less dirt, and because I have gloves on, I can also avoid reflexively touching my face. I have tried it and it works.

Most likely they will have a vaccine for the disease some time between a couple of months from now to a couple of years from now, if ever. On the other side of it, some existing drug therapies work very well at shutting down the disease. Already implemented in some places, within a month or two the leathality of the CoronaVirus is going to be way down owing to effective treatment, probably implemented ahead of proper testing.

The assertion that something will bother somebody else, hurt feelings usually, has become the routine BS talking point. I get so tired of it. Evading personal responsibility is what it is.

Blogger Oswald March 22, 2020 12:35 PM  

They have to keep the people scared. They don't want panic that is true, but they do want fear. You can control people with fear, but just not so much fear they panic. But I think the deep state and the deep state hunters want the people on the sidelines for this one. The deep state as always desires control of the masses, the hunters don't want interference when they take down the deep state.

Blogger Calvin809 March 22, 2020 12:39 PM  

I haven't seen any panic here except the libertarian types concerned about the economy and recommending we go back to "normal" life to save the economy.

Also I heard at the last press conference yesterday the risk to most Americans is low. I always hear this from Pence and I don't understand why they keep saying this. I think it makes most people not take it as seriously.

Blogger MidnightSun March 22, 2020 12:53 PM  

I live in Massachusetts where on Friday the first death from the virus occurred. The previous Monday it had been announced that the town of Winthrop (pop. 30,000) had just one case of CV. Apparently the only person with the virus died. You would think.
That afternoon there was a major presser at City Hall with every major media organization and the usual circus that accompanies these events. Despite the lack of details it was announced that the deceased was an 88 year old male with underlying condition! The town went in full panic shutting down restaurants and other 'non-essential' businesses. No other further info was given except that he contracted it by "community spread." Also no other cases have been reported.
So the next day we find out the victim lived in a luxury high rise. No info on where he traveled, what floor he lived on or what businesses he visited. These people in charge really are idiots and political correctness will get us all killed!

Blogger Doktor Jeep March 22, 2020 12:54 PM  

Remember when Puerto Rico was hit by a hurricane and the leftist government sat on relief supplies to demonize Trump?
And that stuff is STILL turning up in warehouses.
So, given the lack of punishment for that crime, are leftists now sitting on PPE stocks so in order to cripple the health Care system?
If so, people need to be executed.

Blogger Bellomy March 22, 2020 12:54 PM  

Who cares if it's smart or dumb people scared? I'm telling you whst I'm seeing boots on the ground, not editorializing about it.

Blogger rikjames.313 March 22, 2020 1:01 PM  

This isn't so much the swamp as it is really poor performing government employees. TV would make you think all nondefense federal employees are black, but that was just the 70s -90s hiring after Carter outlawed the civil service exam.

However, about half the DC/HQ employees are black and most are stupid. The Paralyzed Veterans sued because under the new 'cultural black' hiring system (black and an HBCU grad) blacks were getting preference ahead of veterans with a disability rating. That is reversed now. But that is just the last 10 years, and you have 30 year (40 total service) supervisors who are stupid and lazy and in charge.

Blogger weka March 22, 2020 1:09 PM  

Am aware that there is now a worldwide dhortage of test kits. The limiting factor is logistics.

In NZ we are only testing symptomatic people and the tests themselves were restricted until last week. Because we are not screening we don't have a clue about the rate of community exposure.

I'm advocating for a hard shutdown. Go early. It may be too late.

My dear is this: we already know the PM is too short for this ride.

Blogger LES March 22, 2020 1:09 PM  

Why is this pandemic being treated differently than other recent flu pandemics?
Not just the US but world-wide? Was this virus man-made and governments are scared shitless? Future liability lawsuits? The reactions of the government and the media have given me more concern than anything.

Blogger Primus Pilus March 22, 2020 1:22 PM  

Doktor Jeep wrote:This is why there is practically no civilization as far as I'm concerned. When retards vote, bad policy results.

Western Civilization survived thousands of years of various monarchs and tyrants, but didn't survive 100 years of Universal Franchise Democracy.

Blogger Damelon Brinn March 22, 2020 1:25 PM  

this protective clothing was used in China instead of being exported

Don't know if it's true, but I've seen claims that the Chinese commandeered all the N95 masks being made there, including from American-owned companies. They also bought millions from other countries before telling anyone else how bad it was getting, and Chinese living abroad went out and bought them personally and shipped them home. So by the time the rest of the world realized they needed them, most of the supply was gone.

Blogger thethirdcoast March 22, 2020 1:25 PM  

Also in NJ, can confirm it is overrun with DIE-versity.

The town of Dover, NJ is basically part of Aztlan/El Norte.

Parsippany, NJ may as well be Bangalore or Mumbai.

Blogger Newscaper312 March 22, 2020 1:32 PM  

The hospital idiots sound like typical corporate suit types who have far too long been out of the trenches, with no direct responsibility for producing a good or service. In my time in even mid sized corporations, there was that infuriating spectacle of aholes who reached somewhere around VP level who really never paid for bad decisions. If they did lose a job they cashed their golden parachute check and readily landed somewhere else at a similar level, part of the "executive" club.
In lean times, at least some of the middle management bloat got cut. When you had to be lean it was remarkable to see how much the loss of most bureaucracy and bureaucrats made no observable difference.

Blogger Duke Norfolk March 22, 2020 1:34 PM  

This is a very, very, very sick society. And I'm not talking about Corona-Chan.

Nothing is surprising to me anymore.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd March 22, 2020 1:58 PM  

Doktor Jeep wrote:So, given the lack of punishment for that crime, are leftists now sitting on PPE stocks so in order to cripple the health Care system?
Given the lack of punishment, it's hard to believe they aren't.

Blogger Silly but True March 22, 2020 1:58 PM  

Why is covid different? Because despite a lack of knowledge about its epidemiology, what is known suggests its somewhere between 2-3 times more infectious than prior similar viruses, and its ability to inflict mortality, or screw a victim up in cases of survival are likewise more robust.

For the conservative, the reaction is not much different: stay away from strangers generally, stay away from those coughing and absolutely stay away from those coughing with poor health hygiene; wash your hands and don’t touch your face. These aren’t excessive and unreasonable and one is utterly stupid to not have been following these protocols during flu season since SARS outbreaks a decade ago. Now you should add in minor changes: increase liquid intake, disinfecting gargle, and self decontaminate once returning from public: change clothes and shower with soap.

But most people are stupid. And most don’t follow even the simplest of life-saving recommendations.

So now governments feel the need to institute policies for general public that cater to stupidity of lowest common denominator.

Blogger Halvar Andersen March 22, 2020 2:02 PM  

More cracks in the EU.

France impounds shipment of masks to UK:https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/03/21/macrons-france-seizes-lorries-carrying-130000-masks-to-british-hospitals/

Czech Republic seizes mask shipment to Italy:https://www.repubblica.it/esteri/2020/03/21/news/coronavirus_cosi_la_repubblica_ceca_ha_sequestrato_680_mila_mascherine_inviate_dalla_cina_all_italia-251883320/

Saw but cannot find now - I believe it was Germany that also seized a shipment of masks bound for Italy.

Looks like a good old game of musical mask is spicing things up.

Blogger furor kek tonicus ( The Surprised Pig hadn't had any idea he tasted this good ) March 22, 2020 2:04 PM  

Narcissists don't care about the underlying problem. often enough, the Narcissist was responsible for the underlying problem in the first place.

Narcissists care about controlling the response of other people too the problem. because all Narcissists care about is controlling other people.

Blogger furor kek tonicus ( The Surprised Pig hadn't had any idea he tasted this good ) March 22, 2020 2:11 PM  

also, so far as the face mask situation goes:

it's probably time to consider using cloth, washable and reusable face masks.

the hospital is already going to be washing and bleach decontaminating hospital gowns / patient bedding / etc. the added load from cloth face masks would be minuscule.

Blogger Jack Amok March 22, 2020 2:24 PM  

Why is this pandemic being treated differently than other recent flu pandemics?

Because it's twice as contagious and 10x more deadly than the normal flu.

Blogger VFM #7634 March 22, 2020 2:37 PM  

For the conservative, the reaction is not much different: stay away from strangers generally, stay away from those coughing and absolutely stay away from those coughing with poor health hygiene; wash your hands and don’t touch your face. These aren’t excessive and unreasonable and one is utterly stupid to not have been following these protocols during flu season since SARS outbreaks a decade ago. Now you should add in minor changes: increase liquid intake, disinfecting gargle, and self decontaminate once returning from public: change clothes and shower with soap.

It's good to take proper precautions like that even during a regular flu season. Along with vitamins, zinc, and colloidal silver. And I haven't had the flu in years, despite never taking the flu shot.

I'm far more concerned about progtards effing everything up with their bellyfeeling hamhanded attitudes than I am about COVID19 itself.

Blogger Jeroth March 22, 2020 2:47 PM  

Draining the swamp was great rhetoric in 2016. Today we need to hear about real people with real names being publicly executed.

Blogger Jack Amok March 22, 2020 2:51 PM  

it's probably time to consider using cloth, washable and reusable face masks.

The Aussies did a study on cloth masks. They're better than nothing, but considerably worse than disposable N95 masks.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd March 22, 2020 3:02 PM  

Jeroth wrote:Draining the swamp was great rhetoric in 2016. Today we need to hear about real people with real names being publicly executed.
The Swamp isn't drained until we can see that it's drained.

Blogger VFM #7634 March 22, 2020 3:02 PM  

Because it's twice as contagious and 10x more deadly than the normal flu.

Might want to re-check your stats. The mortality rate in the U.S. is now down to just over 1.0%, from 1.8% just a few days ago. That's almost a 50% drop, because tens of thousands of cases have been found and forced to self-quarantine.

Finding all these people is absolutely essential to containing an outbreak like this. The Germans and Nordics, despite all their other faults, are still doing better than us, but we're far better off than we were a week ago.

Blogger Uncle John's Band March 22, 2020 3:02 PM  

Taken in the aggregate, CDC moves have been consistent with a desire to spread the disease.

Blogger Madmarisp March 22, 2020 3:06 PM  

Całling BS on this one. My niece is a nurse in central NJ hospital and they are wearing protective gear.

Blogger Newscaper312 March 22, 2020 3:08 PM  

I've mentioned it before but will say it again, re our wonderfully diverse and inclusive healthcare workforce...
After 9-11 my older sister worked for public health in south FL, when fears of a follow on terror attacks, including bio, were strong. First responders and healthcare personnel needed to be protected as first line of defense so smallpox vaccinations were offered and encouraged, first time in almost 30 years.
My sister got one. She was actually a social worker but involved in coordinating services for people. The blacks, Hispanics and various other third world "Americans" were notably almost totally absent from the volunteers for the shot. And she had no doubt as a result that in SHTF they would be no shows. Of course their lack of public spiritedness or sense of professional duty could not be publicly mentioned.

Blogger RedJack March 22, 2020 3:19 PM  

Most of those administrators stopped buying PPE for LEAN purposes, and a nice fat bonus.

Blogger The Cooler March 22, 2020 3:19 PM  

Compelling infographic on the history of pandemics: https://snowbrains.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/history-of-pandemics--scaled.jpg

Blogger Jack Amok March 22, 2020 3:25 PM  

Might want to re-check your stats. The mortality rate in the U.S. is now down to just over 1.0%,

FFS, okay, let me re-check my stats.

Mortality rate of normal flu = 0.1%
Mortality rate of Kung Flu = 1.0%

1.0% = 10 x 0.1%

Like I said, 10x as deadly. "Idiot" is probably too harsh, "sugartits" is really Nate's thing, so do you mind if I just go with "dumbass"?

Death rate is still really high in WA state (over 5%), mostly because it hit nursing homes, but I'm somewhat concerned about the number of under-50 medical personnel in bad shape with it.

Blogger Enjcj March 22, 2020 3:47 PM  

Man I hope everyone has a sincere prayer life because the things coming from you Vox, Karl Denninger, from Market ticker, and Ann Barnhardt is enough to make one almost despair. Yes we can mitigate some of the damage by common sense but this corruption is rotten to the bone. No human intervention can reasonably get us back on the right track and honestly it wasn't total and complete human negligence that got us to this point either. Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

Blogger boogeyman March 22, 2020 3:49 PM  

My two cents. I just got out of the local hospital about 10 days ago for a bad respiratory infection. Turned out to be something other than corona, but damned if it didn't suck. Couple of days of shaking fever, throwing up phlegm, and nearly two straight days of not being able to sleep because of the constant coughing and difficulty breathing.

I spend about a week at the hospital. As soon as I entered the ER I was given a basic mask to keep from spreading my cooties. The staff there all had them as well as gloves. When I got to a room, the nurses, doctors, and techs were all on point. Everyone wore masks, disposable gowns, and these disposable face/eye shields. At one point I even had someone from administration come around and ask if I had seen any of the nurses not using the protective gear, like she was doing quality control.

I don't know if what is described in NJ is a regional thing or particular to that hospital, but I can say that, from what I experienced, it is certainly not universal.

Blogger Rowan March 22, 2020 4:08 PM  

I’m in NJ

Bergen is likely a special case. Most hospitals are issuing PPC to their employees. Doctors are telling patients to stay home. A doc diagnosed my dad over the phone and called in a scrip for some meds. Unless you’ve got specific COVID symptoms or aren’t otherwise dying, they’re asking people to stay home.

Bergen is wealthy, diverse, extremely liberal, and full of virtue signaled. Lots of Smallhatted Special People too.

Down in Lakewood, Jewish schools have been exempted from the school closings. It’s got the largest population of Hasidim in all of NJ. Since schul is a religious obligation I guess they don’t have to comply.

I’m all right up here in the sticks. We did inventory again today. We could last six months unless the power goes out, if it does, I’ll have to go to the salted meat protocol, but by then it’s hunting season again.

I wonder how much I could charge for a loaf of bread if it comes down to it. Lots of people are partying hard with their quarantine snacks, and of course liquor stores are essential services (tax revenue gotta flow). Sporting goods stores are closed. No gun purchases!

I understand all of it. I’ll ride it out. I’m not sure many can. The boredom factor is high. Idle hands aplenty and the devil always has work to be done.

Blogger VFM #7634 March 22, 2020 4:11 PM  

Like I said, 10x as deadly. "Idiot" is probably too harsh, "sugartits" is really Nate's thing, so do you mind if I just go with "dumbass"?

Germany: 94/24,852 = 0.4%
Austria: 9/3,026 = 0.3%
Norway: 7/2372 = 0.3%

Again... once all the undiagnosed cases have been found, it's almost certain to be closer to what the Germans are getting. And that's assuming the Germans are getting them all.

Look in the mirror, bub.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants March 22, 2020 4:45 PM  

Read it. Mein Kampf way better read.

Also, my niece is a hospital nurse & her hubby is a pulmonologist at the U of Tuscaloosa hospital & she was told not to "scare" patients with masks/gloves but her hubby was not.
He has had one off day this month, she's had 3.
Their kids are getting full on grandma care as are my other sister's kids and my grandkids' other grandparents that live nearby. That might be a great silver lining of all of this-less time in public school,more time with Nana and Pop.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants March 22, 2020 4:50 PM  

God bless ya. Here in my 97.4% white area, the shelves are all neatly stocked and there's an item limit of 2 of everything which has been going just fine.
30 miles away in a more diverse area the stores are empty disaster zones. Here, the only thing that was out was Tropicana orange juice, but the 7 or 8 other brands were fully stocked.
Amazing, isn't it?

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants March 22, 2020 4:58 PM  

I know for agencies like HUD, DFACS, and the like, that 80-90 percent of all employees are black. A lady I know worked for 34 years at HUD but was pushed to retire from her senior position because she's white and couldn't be expected to relate to urban housing needs. Except for the 3 plus decades when she was holding her offices together with glue and popsicles sticks.
They got rid of her, 2 more senior white women and a senior white man, all in 2009 when the Obama admin helped to finish the blackening.
I remember reading a big story somewhere back around 2014 about the high numbers of blacks in every department in governmental agencies in DC that really broke it down but I can't find it right now.

Blogger Gregory the Tall March 22, 2020 5:04 PM  

Can one use ultraviolet light to sterilize used PP masks?

Blogger MacD March 22, 2020 5:07 PM  

Where I live there's an enormous Chinese population and they're the only ones I've seen wearing masks. They must have hoarded them months ago. Old stock citizens cannot find any and are getting angry about it. Spicy time ahead.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants March 22, 2020 5:10 PM  

Interesting since the first Corona patient in NY was in Rockland county, AKA, Jewtopia, with their 33% of the population there. He had been in China, brought it back to his synagogue and Bob's your uncle, they've been dropping like flies ever since.
Up in NY's Kiryas Joel land, the Hasids there are the ones who caused the huge measles outbreaks because they don't vaccinate and we're hauling it back and forth from Israel.
If they're still going to school, they will probably have another huge round of outbreaks soon.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 22, 2020 5:23 PM  

UV won't penetrate to get the virus within the mask. Steaming them for a few minutes or microwaving them will kill the virus though.

Blogger Jack Amok March 22, 2020 5:41 PM  

Again... once all the undiagnosed cases have been found, it's almost certain to be closer to what the Germans are getting. And that's assuming the Germans are getting them all.

You're upgraded to idiot. It's 4.2% world-wide. You are cherry-picking and then making assumptions to fit your argument. You should get a job with a GlobalWarmingmonger outfit, you have the right skill set.

If this ends up only twice as deadly as normal flu, that will be fantastic. At the moment, the numbers - to whatever extent we can trust them - say it's 42 times as deadly. It's trending down, but your assumption it will trend that far down is unsupported. Have you paid attention to how many medical staff are being hospitalized and even dying from this virus? That doesn't happen on this scale with the normal flu. The normal flu doesn't have multiple young-ish doctors a month in critical condition in the same relatively small metro area. The normal flu doesn't put this high a number of people on respirators.

Blogger Jad March 22, 2020 5:45 PM  

As a postal worker, I've been wearing an industrial grade mouth and nose silicone mask with a particulate filter that will stop virus's. I was informed by my management that one or more, ethereal, people complained that it was causing them anxiety and that i should take it off and wear one of the p2 cloth masks provided. I said no. Vox is correct of course, don't care what others think of you just do what you got to do.

Blogger The Beer Whisperer March 22, 2020 5:45 PM  

Well said, although I suspect the use of the case mortality rate as an actual death rate is deliberate.

Blogger Jay Will March 22, 2020 5:47 PM  

About time we got some old fashioned authoritarianism. All this fake freedom that never existed needs to be got rid of.

Blogger Macs March 22, 2020 5:52 PM  

Yea it's not at all uncommon in many cultures to wear a mask as a preventative measure during a flu season. Keeps you from rubbing your nose and spreading your germs around. If you have the sniffles it's hard not to touch your nose unless you wear a mask.

Blogger Ska_Boss March 22, 2020 6:01 PM  

Social shamimg is a powerful tool being weaponized against people that nearly everyone I know responds to sharply. The only explanation I can think of is because if you have taken a ticket, you are somehow invested in and placing value in your social standing here on this earth which would cause you to ignore your basic defense mechanisms and what common sense would normally dictate. And unfortunately, it is everyone that will pay the price of the consequences of these terrible choices.

I also believe that there is a separate and distinctively nefarious consciousness or spirit that is influencing most people to act against their own interests. This is much deeper than a slow drop in the average IQ or even what indoctrination in academia can produce.

Blogger Jill in StL March 22, 2020 6:18 PM  

I work for a large practice of orthopedic surgeons. We've remained open, allowing for many cancellations by the patients themselves, but we are taking the most extreme measures possible to protect all our patients and ourselves - any employee that can work from home were immediately ordered to do so. If a patient or anyone accompanying the patient (and we are now allowing just one accompanying person) so much as has the sniffles, they have to wait in their cars until appt time - if they have a fever, their appointment is cancelled and rescheduled. Same with any accompanying person with sniffles and/or fever - they're in the car and won' even be allowed to go back when the patient is called to be seen by the surgeon. Our employees working in-house are allowed gloves/masks, etc... This may all be for naught, as of Friday, all physical therapy facilities are closed and as of today, St Louis city and county are on 24 hr lockdown. Also,starting this week, we were supposed to cut back all our office hours by half. But, it sounds like as soon as we get word, we'll be shut down completely except for suture/staple removals and postop infection checks. Our after-hours clinic which was open Mon-Friday evenings and Saturday has been closed for over a week, which made sense since schools/sports are out, which is a lot of the after-hours clinic's traffic. I am checking work email a lot for any changes like a shutdown tomorrow. I cannot believe that any hospital would fire or discipline employees for simply taking such precautionary measures, which not only protects employees, but also their patients - they've hurdled themselves over the insanity line and as a decades-long healthcare employee, this news is so disturbing and disappointing to hear.

Blogger Gregory the Tall March 22, 2020 6:31 PM  

89. Snidely Whiplash wrote

UV won't penetrate to get the virus within the mask. Steaming them for a few minutes or microwaving them will kill the virus though.

Thanks, Snidely, should one add water so that the microwaves would have something to heat? And would the polypropylene masks really survive this treatment?

Blogger Jack Amok March 22, 2020 6:31 PM  

Well said, although I suspect the use of the case mortality rate as an actual death rate is deliberate.

I dunno. If you die from cardiomyopathy, but the reason you have cardiomyopathy is because of the massive inflammation caused by the Kung Flu, should you count as a Kung Flu fatality?

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/theres-a-lot-we-dont-know-uw-researchers-look-at-how-coronavirus-turns-body-against-itself-and-kills/

Blogger VFM #7634 March 22, 2020 6:48 PM  

You're upgraded to idiot. It's 4.2% world-wide. You are cherry-picking and then making assumptions to fit your argument. You should get a job with a GlobalWarmingmonger outfit, you have the right skill set.

Well, okay. There's cherry-picking, and then there's cherry-picking.

First of all, we can't believe a damn thing that comes out of China or Iran as far as figures go.

As of now, Germany has 24,852 cases and 94 deaths. Italy has 59,138 cases and 5,476 deaths.

So there are three possibilities:

1) Germans are much, much more resistant than Italians are to this thing;
2) The Germans, while being accurate about their caseload, are lying their asses off about how many deaths they have; or,
3) The Italians have about a million infected people.

Of the three possibilities, the third one makes the most sense. At least to me.

And if it makes the most sense, then a 0.5% mortality rate makes more sense than a 5% one.

Let's stop hyperventilating, okay?

Blogger Silly but True March 22, 2020 6:56 PM  

Where’s Britain’s balls. Let them invade France to protect their masks and get on with all of the ensuing fun.

Does Britain not care about the safety of its citizens?

Blogger Shannon March 22, 2020 7:02 PM  

I agree. I’m a pediatrician and my patients like it when I take precautions b:c they don’t want me to catch it and spread it.

Blogger Silly but True March 22, 2020 7:11 PM  

The Korus attacks lung cells directly. You can die just from it blowing holes in your lungs. But the mechanism itself is pretty bad. It first attacks cilia, and squats there plugging up your lungs with lung mucus. _IF_ you survive that, your body responds by flooding the infection, actually causing that to become worse. The infection response inflames your lungs which facilitates liquid transfer directly into the lungs, and begins your body to start disposing of infected lung cells, literally blowing holes through your lungs in infected regions.

At this point, your path to death can take one of two routes: pneumonia or decreased oxygen.

Pneumonia is bad enough.

But the destruction of your lungs can outright suffocate its victims, or more insidious reduce oxygen intake across the board whereby organs can’t even get enough oxygen to live and they start shutting down.

This isn’t hyperventilating.

Even if you’re a perfectly healthy person destined to survive and without any unknown latent issues, you really don’t want to catch this to point where your body heads it off at just the phlegming up your lungs stage.

That’s going to be disruptive enough.

Blogger Shannon March 22, 2020 7:11 PM  

I talked to my friend, a surgeon. He explained the rationale this way - assuming there is a shortage of masks, would u put a mask on a covid patient or someone uninflected. It seems that masks aren’t great at protecting the uninflected- the virus gets in through gaps at the sides, but, works very well if put on infected people. Ideally, you would mask or quarantine everyone infected. The above scenario does not apply if masks are abundant

Blogger Avalanche March 22, 2020 7:18 PM  

@100 "Does Britain not care about the safety of its citizens?"

Obviously not... watched any Brit news, lo these past 5-6 YEARS!? Beheadings, bombs, driving into crowds, raping and torturing young girls? Britain does not care about the safety of its citizens in any way at all!

Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 22, 2020 7:18 PM  

Silly but True wrote:Even if you’re a perfectly healthy person destined to survive and without any unknown latent issues, you really don’t want to catch this to point where your body heads it off at just the phlegming up your lungs stage.

That’s going to be disruptive enough.

Can confirm.

Blogger Jack Amok March 22, 2020 8:03 PM  

First of all, we can't believe a damn thing that comes out of China or Iran as far as figures go.

Of course not. They are almost certainly under reporting deaths in both those places. That's why I mostly pay attention to WA State numbers where I at least have some ability to gut check them against what I see and the handful of people I know who are involved. The state numbers jive with what I can glean anecdotally.

The death rate here just dipped below 5%, which is still higher than the reported global average. 80% of those are over 70, but you know what? The normal flu kills mostly old people too, and it doesn't kill them at this rate. 28% of the residents of Life Care have died of it. Not 28% of the infected, 28% of the entire population living there a month ago. They were old and all had some pre-existing conditions, but that's considerably worse than what the flu ordinarily does.



Blogger Martel March 22, 2020 8:48 PM  

Harvey Weinstein has the coronavirus. His doctor must have not worn a mask.

Blogger Picturemaker March 22, 2020 9:31 PM  

The real problem is that there is a lack of masks. It isn't to "stave off a panic" -- most hospitals only have a 2 week supply and they're trying in secret to conserve them because they can't get any through their regular supply lines. Same BS about masks not being useful to prevent illness. If there was an unlimited supply, everyone in a hospital, especially all patients coming in through the ER, would be wearing masks right now to limit any potential COVID exposure.

Blogger furor kek tonicus ( The Surprised Pig hadn't had any idea he tasted this good ) March 22, 2020 9:39 PM  

70. Jack Amok March 22, 2020 2:51 PM
but considerably worse than disposable N95 masks.



and we have a shortage of N95 masks.

your point?


90. Jack Amok March 22, 2020 5:41 PM
At the moment, the numbers - to whatever extent we can trust them - say it's 42 times as deadly.


at the moment, something like 85% of those contracting the disease have minimal to non-existent symptoms.

ie - they're never even going to go to a clinic or emergency room. many of them will never even know they ever had it.

UNLESS you institute a universal testing protocol for Covid antibodies all across the country, you're never going to have any idea what the final infection rate is.

and there's a shortage of test kits, they don't have enough to test all of the people already in hospital. they're actually still doing diagnosis by symptom in many cases.

therefore, actual exposure is probably at least an order of magnitude higher than "official" "verified" numbers.

Blogger Jay Will March 22, 2020 9:43 PM  

Is it ok to lie if the lie creates a narrative that leads to a reality that was needed. Christians can't rule.

Blogger Jay Will March 22, 2020 9:45 PM  

Truth and reality 2 different things.

Blogger Ariadne Umbrella March 22, 2020 9:58 PM  

There are people making masks. European patterns are more refined, in case you wondered. Shaped, ironed, edge-stitched for durability. Regular people are making them, the same way that regular people made socks, hats, washcloths and balaclavas in every war since at least the Civil War. I want to say American Revolution. I 'm not too up on English historical knitting, but if anyone has a Bishop Rutt book on the history of knitting, we'd have an answer.

The cloth masks aren't at industrial standards, but they are at least 50%+ effective.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 22, 2020 10:48 PM  

Jack Amok wrote:That's why I mostly pay attention to WA State numbers where I at least have some ability to gut check them against what I see and the handful of people I know who are involved. The state numbers jive with what I can glean anecdotally.
On-the-ground-and-in-the-middle of the WA outbreak here. It is functionally impossible to be tested for Covid-19 unless you are:
A nurse, doctor, or other medical worker
A policeman or firefighter
Already at major risk due to pre-existing cardio-pulmonary disease
Mostly dead.

My entire family has had a disease that matches the symptoms of Covid-9 for the last two weeks. When we tried to get it tested or even diagonsed we were told "You probably have it. Quarantine and wait it out. Don't come to the doctor or hospital unless you have extreme difficulty breathing. Otherwise healthy people are not in any danger from it."
Very few if any of the vast majority of of people who currently have the disease will ever be counted on any statistics.

Blogger liberranter March 22, 2020 11:12 PM  

@25:

It has nothing to do with people being dumb, it's about people being scared.

The first adjective is characteristic of people who are quick to default to the second, and who spend the bulk of their existence in such a state.

Blogger Akulkis March 23, 2020 12:08 AM  

@76

"Most of those administrators stopped buying PPE for LEAN purposes, and a nice fat bonus."

Bingo.

"Clawbacks" on unionized workers' contracts are a thing when a company is doing lousy.

Should go double on feckless executives who cause the problems in the first place.

Blogger Jack Amok March 23, 2020 1:08 AM  

your point?

What do you think it is Smart Boy? Use cloth masks if that's all you've got, but don't stop trying to get real N95 masks just because you've got some nice old ladies sewing cloth masks.

On-the-ground-and-in-the-middle of the WA outbreak here

Me too. Evergreen is where all of my kids were born. I know the head of infectious medicine there, along with a few nurses and a bunch of the local EMTs. It is nearly impossible to get tested if you aren't at-risk symptomatic or part of a Covid ward (either get tested or get quarantined, testing with a negative result means quicker return to work), though testing has gone up five-fold in the last week. Still, the percent positive is holding at about 6.5% of those tested, even with the increased numberw. I assume we'll eventually be somewhere around 25% positive, based on the staff at Life Center. If none of the other numbers come down, that'll mean 100k on respirators at some point.

Hopefully some of the other numbers come down, but in the meantime, I'm okay with calling this a real deal.

BTW, Inslee is a snake, but he's doing a reasonable job. I can see him as a 2024 Donk contender.

Blogger KeaponLaffin March 23, 2020 3:09 AM  

My GF is a nurse in the UK. Specifically an infection control specialist. Now this was way before the current lunacy.
Now she's a woman and NHS so she doesn't listen to socialised medicine is terrible. However she did tell me horror stories.
Most of her job consisted of yelling at doctors to wash their hands!
Now I'm a sexist pig. I like female nurses over male nurses. I prefer male doctors.
However, nagging has a purpose. Now me GF is very feminine not feminist but she can still nag. I'm pretty sure both Vox and Zman said.. paraphrased
Women are a civilizing force.
Now this doesn't mean women should run the world, we've all seen how that works out.
That being said. If some girl nurse has to remind you to take proper precautions, there is something wrong with you.
If you fire her for it, you should be hanged on general principal.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine March 23, 2020 3:11 AM  

"Truth and reality 2 different things."

Bugger off Satan.

Blogger furor kek tonicus ( The Surprised Pig hadn't had any idea he tasted this good ) March 23, 2020 3:16 AM  

116. Jack Amok March 23, 2020 1:08 AM
but don't stop trying to get real N95 masks just because you've got some nice old ladies sewing cloth masks.



seriously, Jack?

you let me know if the TP shelves restock before the N95 masks do, why don't you?

or you could calm down a bit.

Blogger Dan in Georgia March 23, 2020 3:54 AM  

The final death throws of the deep state globalist system. They are doomed and they know it. A last desperate attempt to remove the nationalists, especially Trump.

Blogger JamesB.BKK March 23, 2020 3:56 AM  

Social shaming works - in particular on Northern Peoples - because refusal could and did lead to expulsion and starvation or the filling of the bellies of wolves.

Blogger Dan in Georgia March 23, 2020 4:09 AM  

Central Jersey is where the state gets less diverse as you go south. Bergen is uber-urban and run by basketball-Americans for 50 years now.

Blogger Skyler the Weird March 23, 2020 7:20 AM  

@117. I'm wondering if these 'Physicians' she is nagging to wash hands are the ones the NHS brought in from the Commonwealth turd world to work for cheap.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd March 23, 2020 9:03 AM  

VFM #7634 wrote:Might want to re-check your stats. The mortality rate in the U.S. is now down to just over 1.0%, from 1.8% just a few days ago. That's almost a 50% drop, because tens of thousands of cases have been found and forced to self-quarantine.
That's silly talk. Those newly tested people haven't had time to die or recover yet.
As long as we have exponential growth, deaths/cases is always going to be 1/4 to 1/8 the actual fatality rate, since it takes two to three doublings to go from infected-and-infectious to symptomatic, and another two to three doublings to dead, and another doubling or two to reach recovered, if you don't die.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd March 23, 2020 9:07 AM  

Skyler the Weird wrote:@117. I'm wondering if these 'Physicians' she is nagging to wash hands are the ones the NHS brought in from the Commonwealth turd world to work for cheap.
If a Pak washes his hands, he's guilty of cultural appropriation. Nagging him to wash is imperialist oppression. Pointing out that he's a stupid fool who couldn't ever be a competent doctor because he simply isn't capable is rayciss - and truth.

Blogger SirHamster March 23, 2020 5:15 PM  

Gregory the Tall wrote:Thanks, Snidely, should one add water so that the microwaves would have something to heat? And would the polypropylene masks really survive this treatment?
Before you microwave that mask, better check that it doesn't have an external or internal metal nose strip. Metal in microwave big no no.

Steaming would be safer. Instant-pot/pressure cooker/rice cooker.

Blogger sammibandit March 23, 2020 6:22 PM  

Social shaming works - in particular on Northern Peoples - because refusal could and did lead to expulsion and starvation or the filling of the bellies of wolves.

This is a story about Northern people and generations-held shame-based warnings among enemy Blackfoot/Athabascan tribes. There's a lake in Northern Alberta that was the setting for an Indian battle over a hundred years ago. One tribe tricked another by trapping the warriors on a peninsula formation. The warriors faced a gauntlet of certain death: drown like a coward or die like a man. It was such a massacre that people are strongly discouraged to fish at that spot even now. I've heard of people being cursed for saying they've been there or are planning to go to that peninsula. No one alive was there for the battle but it was so astonishing to both sides it had to be passed down with a warning. No one really pulls out this story unless they plan to show that warnings are serious even if the messengers are no longer alive. I guess the other lesson is not to get stuck on a peninsula.

Blogger Akulkis March 24, 2020 9:19 PM  

"They got rid of her, 2 more senior white women and a senior white man, all in 2009 when the Obama admin helped to finish the blackening."

That way there would be nobody with both the honesty and backbone to report the massive amounts of fraud, waste, and abuse of government funds.

Blogger Akulkis March 24, 2020 9:25 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Akulkis March 24, 2020 9:41 PM  

"Most of her job consisted of yelling at doctors to wash their hands!
Now I'm a sexist pig. I like female nurses over male nurses. I prefer male doctors."

How many of those NHS doctors are imported from southern asia, the mideast, or some other 2nd- or turd-world country?

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