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Wednesday, March 11, 2020

Why Christianity is vital to civilization

The Z-man inadvertantly explains the central importance of Christianity to Western civilization and Western societies:
Stupidity has a cost. Every society, even small ones, pay a stupid tax, a price for believing and repeating things that are false. Inevitably, all facts result in some action, so the falsehood, assumed to be fact, will lead to an action. That action, based in an untruth, will come with a price. Maybe the price will be small, like women wasting money on tarot card readers. Maybe it will be high, like putting women into positions of authority based on the lunacy of feminism.

Further, the stupidity of false notions is not universal. Dumb people believe in ghosts and magic, while smart people fall for things like libertarianism. Belief in ghosts may be silly, but it is generally harmless. Crackpot ideas like communism and libertarianism, on the other hand, are very dangerous. It turns out that who is passing around the counterfeit idea counts for as much as the idea itself. Smart people falling for dumb ideas is far more dangerous than dumb people being dumb.

Like money, there are at least two qualities popular nonsense. One is the volume of it in circulation and the other is its velocity. The volume seems pretty obvious. At the extreme, if everything people think is true is actually false, they will not be around very long before they act in such a way that ends their existence. An example would be the Xhosa cattle-killing movement and famine of 1856. There is an absolute limit to the amount of stupid any people can indulge.
The less a society is devoted to the Good, the Beautiful, and the True, the more it will subject itself to the inevitable and unavoidable costs of stupidity. The reason that the wicked always stumble in the end is that their rejection of the True is applied stupidity, and the acceptance of their self-serving falsehoods relies upon the very stupidity of the masses that prevents societies from functioning.

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100 Comments:

Blogger Mr.MantraMan March 11, 2020 8:34 AM  

If I had to give a prime example of Conservative Tailgater it would be Z-man. To put this in perspective of this blog the Z would be telling us about Scalzi, the Tor gang and the Hugos' cult, and offering advice to the Sad Pups while keeping his distance and avoiding at all costs mentioning the Rapid Puppies.

Who wants a Hugo these days, or how dim is Ohio Fats' star and is the Tor gang living off nothing but the fat of a zero percent interest economy?

What else can be Rabid Puppied?

Blogger Manuel March 11, 2020 8:35 AM  

The answer is of course, Λόγος. John 1:1.

Blogger John Regan March 11, 2020 8:48 AM  

Accurately distinguishing the Author of Truth from the Father of Lies is indeed an important support for any civilization.

Blogger Red Bane March 11, 2020 8:48 AM  

Has anyone noted that the Alt-Right Brain trust of Spencer, Woods and Dutton have been favoring Islamic 'virtue' over Christianity as a praxis for saving the West. Yes, save the West by making it the East seems to be their current tack.

This trio are desperate to avoid the necessity of Christianity

Blogger Balkan Yankee March 11, 2020 9:02 AM  

The hell of it is elites are just as susceptible to fetishistic nonsense as the average person. Maybe more so now that I think about it.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd March 11, 2020 9:06 AM  

Xhosa cattle-killing movement. Wow. That is African-grade stupid. Not hard to see that places like California are getting stupider than that.

Blogger Dad29 March 11, 2020 9:25 AM  

The less a society is devoted to the Good, the Beautiful, and the True, the more it will subject itself to the inevitable and unavoidable costs of stupidity. The reason that the wicked always stumble in the end is that their rejection of the True is applied stupidity, and the acceptance of their self-serving falsehoods relies upon the very stupidity of the masses that prevents societies from functioning.

Right-Bang-On!!

Blogger dc.sunsets March 11, 2020 9:42 AM  

Everybody believes something (including self-described atheists.) Belief is the paper on which people draw the "mental map" by which they navigate life. This map is not the territory [for (R)eality is infinite and beyond the mind of Man] and the degree to which it conforms to (R)eality is the test of sanity, individual or collective. Most people absorb their Mental Map entirely from the surrounding herd animals, which is why human history is cyclically comedy, farce and tragedy.

So much of what we use to navigate is held on nothing but faith. Christian faith built the wonders of Western Civ. Contrast the monuments erected by European Christendom to those erected by the Ancient Egyptians; both are engineering marvels, but the former celebrate life...the latter are tombs.

Our modern Theocracy's apotheosis are the offices of Planned Parenthood (abortion clinics) and the soaring edifice of the Federal Reserve Bank of NY, a place where creating monetary demand out of thin air and using that con artistry to arrogate power, enslave Mankind and steal productive capital is the Business Du Jour. We live under a Death Cult run by con artists.

Blogger Desdichado March 11, 2020 10:05 AM  

Mr.MantraMan wrote:If I had to give a prime example of Conservative Tailgater it would be Z-man. To put this in perspective of this blog the Z would be telling us about Scalzi, the Tor gang and the Hugos' cult, and offering advice to the Sad Pups while keeping his distance and avoiding at all costs mentioning the Rapid Puppies.

I dunno. I think he is a guy who treats a lot of fairly "basic" red-pill topics in a fairly articulate way, who is good for people who are ready to start making the transition to, as he calls it, dissident politics. Reading the Z-man is like reading a red-pill primer.

His problems are his rejection of Christianity, his ego—he seems to be very interested in maintaining his position of a kind of guru of the movement or something, and his general inability or unwillingness to do anything except commentate from the sidelines. He's not a doer, he's an analyzer, and his analysis, while insightful, it's particularly deep. I like reading him, because I think he phrases certain ideas in ways that are aesthetically appealing and useful, but he doesn't ever really say anything that hasn't already occurred to me either.

Blogger Stilicho March 11, 2020 10:07 AM  

Universal suffrage expands the reach and grasp of stupidity. We enjoy the rule of mobs and demagogues the Founders feared. Universal Suffrage married with representative democracy turns out to engender the worst of both systems. Somalis with average IQs of 70 electing another foreign invader with an IQ of 75 who married her brother is not an outlier. Idiocracy was an optimistic feel-good movie about a rosy future. Reality is worse.

Blogger wgmeisheid March 11, 2020 10:18 AM  

What is also interesting is how Christianity has threatened every other civilization when it came into contact with them. Everywhere from the far east to the Americas to everywhere in between, it turned things upside down.

While it can be argued that there is no such thing as a fundamental Christian culture, per se, its seminal truths relating to the fallen nature of man, his ultimate purpose, and his only means of salvation radically changes any culture it comes into contact with.

Blogger JamesB.BKK March 11, 2020 10:20 AM  

Dumber to fall for (a) libertarianism or (b) the thrall of govt suppression of free association in all things and nagging everybody else to pay their "fair share" of taxes imposed for all sorts of stupid and harmful things (incl. locally unadjustable pension and medical cost coverage obligations to unionized former public employees that were negotiated with politicians seeking to corner for that period the votes of public employees)? What's in-between?

Blogger Doktor Jeep March 11, 2020 10:40 AM  

"Dumb people believe in ghosts and magic, while smart people fall for things like libertarianism. "

Owch.
True. But owch.

Blogger Robert What? March 11, 2020 10:47 AM  

Who was it who said this? "When people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing; they believe in anything." Or something to that effect.

Blogger Crush Limbraw March 11, 2020 10:47 AM  

It has become my standard answer to Christians: Read Hebrews 5:11-6:2 sometimes and and as I tell my political friends - STOP FIGHTING DaLastWar!
The same applies to Christians as the author of Hebrews clearly shows!
Ignorance and stupidity is an equal opportunity affliction!

Blogger JonM March 11, 2020 11:02 AM  

That tiger won't eat me.
A little usury never hurt anyone.

Same energy.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 11, 2020 11:15 AM  

JamesB.BKK wrote:Dumber to fall for (a) libertarianism or (b) the thrall of govt suppression of free association in all things and nagging everybody else to pay their "fair share" of taxes imposed for all sorts of stupid and harmful things (incl. locally unadjustable pension and medical cost coverage obligations to unionized former public employees that were negotiated with politicians seeking to corner for that period the votes of public employees)?
Ain't no dumb like Libertarian dumb. I have considerable acquaintance with Libertarians, and even Communists lack the breezy degenerate snobbery disguised as absolute moral and intellectual superiority that Libertarians live for.
What's in-between?
Liberty, which Libertarians ironically don't understand.

Blogger Jack Amok March 11, 2020 11:22 AM  

Dumber to fall for (a) libertarianism or (b) the thrall of govt suppression of free association in all things and...

What's really dumb is not understanding how (a) eventually leads to (b).

Blogger Rek. March 11, 2020 11:32 AM  

Ive watched a couple of duttons videos and read 2 of his books. Ive never come across what you are describing. He is married to a Lutheran pastor of all things and speaks quite fondly of Christians.

Blogger Red Bane March 11, 2020 11:35 AM  

Check out the comments on Spencer's latest intellectual u-tube offering. By and large, his low IQ sycophants seem more than happy for the East to subsume the west

Blogger Lunchbag Lizard March 11, 2020 11:42 AM  

The worst part of all this is the fact that so many people on the dissident right see Christianity as a problem and not the solution that it is. Just look at 4Chan, The Right Stuff.biz, etc. It's becoming a big problem.

Blogger JamesB.BKK March 11, 2020 11:44 AM  

Let us take Dave Smith and Tom Woods as examples. Maybe Walter Block too. They're not in the weed n hookers crowd are they? Got any observations of their breezy degenerate snobbery? As to (a) creating (b), got a brief description of this pathway? Because it's not clear which strain of libertarianism (or perhaps pseudo-libertarianism) you are leaning on, please assume that pedophilia and universal basic couch potato are not approved and security of the locals is, at a minimum.

Blogger Monotonous Languor March 11, 2020 11:45 AM  

Z-man didn't quite get around to linking up the disparate ideas in his commentary, i.e., Christianity is Truth, therefore mass movements of people falling away from it are bound for some kind of earthly and/or heavenly perdition.

However, what this overlooks is that leftism itself is an offshoot of Christianity. Our enemies thus contain some element of the Truth. And the situation is even worse than that. Leftism is essentially the secular cult of equality, which takes its cue directly from Christianity. Which means that Christians are always playing defense about their own religion when trying to resist socialism, communism, etc. Which also means that Christianity is currently losing badly.

Christianity: love thy neighbor, the good Samaritan, endless compassion, turn the other cheek, money is the root of all evil, give away all your possessions and then you can enter heaven, etc. etc.

These exhortations can only be explained by a long, drawn-out exegesis that attempts to make some kind of distinction between them and leftism. But that amounts to an exercise in futility, especially to the great unwashed masses of people. Any distinctions are too ephemeral, too intricate, and too finely drawn to be believable. Anyway, trying to constantly defend against all of this ensures you can never go on the offense, which means in the long run you will most assuredly lose the war.

Blogger Kingly Gift March 11, 2020 11:53 AM  

@17 and @18

The core good idea of Libertarianism is this; It doesn't matter who you are, sin is sin. It doesn't matter who you sin against, sin is sin. This means that it doesn't matter if you are the King, President, Representative, etc., when you take peoples stuff through the threat of violence, you are stealing. Likewise, it doesn't matter who you are acting against (supposed racists, greedy billionaires, etc.) when you restrict a person's freedom of association or take their stuff, you are sinning against them. So State-ism is a rejection of the "True" in that it stupidly holds that based on a person's office or place in society, the rules of right and wrong no longer apply.

Read 1 Samual 12 if you don't think a government free from property seizure is possible. It was God's ideal plan for Israel, but this Biblical narrative, and all history, shows that no people will be righteous and faithful enough to keep such a government. Nevertheless, taxation is theft, and there's no way around that fact. So we are stuck in a bad situation from which we will never be released until sin and death are finally brought to an end by our Lord Jesus Christ. In the mean time, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is Gods."

Now maybe most Libertarians don't actually hold to this core truth very well, and I'm really talking about Liberty. I don't know. Arguing over terminology is fruitless. Instead of Liberty, I like to call it just "right and wrong." But Liberty is the term most people associate with this idea.

Anyway, the point is, don't throw the "Liberty" baby out with the "Libertarian" bath water.

Blogger Scuzzaman March 11, 2020 11:54 AM  

Who was it who said this? "When people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing; they believe in anything." Or something to that effect.

Chesterton, G. K.

Blogger Kingly Gift March 11, 2020 11:56 AM  

@8 dc.sunsets Well said.

Blogger VD March 11, 2020 12:03 PM  

Dumber to fall for (a) libertarianism or (b) the thrall of govt suppression of free association in all things and nagging everybody else to pay their "fair share" of taxes imposed for all sorts of stupid and harmful things (incl. locally unadjustable pension and medical cost coverage obligations to unionized former public employees that were negotiated with politicians seeking to corner for that period the votes of public employees)?

You have to be more intelligent in order to be dumb enough to fall for (a).

Let us take Dave Smith and Tom Woods as examples. Maybe Walter Block too. They're not in the weed n hookers crowd are they? Got any observations of their breezy degenerate snobbery? As to (a) creating (b), got a brief description of this pathway? Because it's not clear which strain of libertarianism (or perhaps pseudo-libertarianism) you are leaning on, please assume that pedophilia and universal basic couch potato are not approved and security of the locals is, at a minimum.

If you're still clinging to libertarianism in light of the copious evidence now clearly demonstrating it is every bit as utopian as communism or any other impossible ideology, you are doing so for emotional reasons and nothing else. Libertarianism doesn't work, it has never worked, it will never work, and it will never, ever, even be partially implemented.

Posture and appeal to authority all you like, nothing you say or cite is going to change that.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan March 11, 2020 12:05 PM  

Desdichado you made my point thanks, that is what conservatives do they observe and fall back on some snobbery for not advising much of anything especially if it were to upset the Lib/Con game where the Lib bestows the respect upon the Con and the Con beams in delight. Thankfully the Left no longer need respect the Conservatives and so we have a chance.

Conservatives pick up a bicycling Lefty when that idiot falls off his or her bike, a Rabid Puppy jams a stick in those spokes. Z-man is just another smart conservative who follows the Peloton.

Blogger Jack Amok March 11, 2020 12:20 PM  

...it doesn't matter who you are acting against (supposed racists, greedy billionaires, etc.) when you restrict a person's freedom of association or take their stuff, you are sinning against them...

Are we sinning against rapist when we restrict their freedom to rape little girls? Are we sinning against banksters when we restrict their freedom to scam the gullible? Are we sinning against foreigners when we restrict their ability to "associate" with us by moving here and undercutting wages? Are we sinning against globalists when we restrict their ability to off-shore manufacturing and gut the middle class?

This is exactly the sort of breezy snobbery Snidely was talking about. You're too effing good for us knuckle-draggers who just don't realize how sinful we are with our rules and obligations, and that's why it's okay for you to sell us out.

Because that's what libertarianism degenerates into - selling your neighbor out. You justify it by saying he has no right to restrict your precious freedom, but all you're really doing is rejecting your obligations as a member of society. You don't want to owe anything to your neighbors, and claim they don't owe anything to you in return. So you have a neighborhood of atomized people with no way to prevent being sold out by each other.

Until a strongman comes along and takes over, buying out just enough of your neighbors to keep the rest under his thumb.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 11, 2020 12:23 PM  

Nathan Hornok wrote:The core good idea of Libertarianism is this; It doesn't matter who you are, sin is sin. It doesn't matter who you sin against, sin is sin. This means that it doesn't matter if you are the King, President, Representative, etc., when you take peoples stuff through the threat of violence, you are stealing.
And Libertarianism defines this as the ONLY sin.
Just like SJWism defines racism as the only sin.
The NAP is both a lie and used in support of a multitude of other lies, and a host of evils. Drunkeness, debauchery, seduction, rape, molestation buggery, usury, entrapment, enslavement, and yes, even fraud and theft, every evil in the world is supported by the non-aggression principle.
And so long as Tom Woods supports the NAP, he is implicitly in favor of every possible degeneracy, claiming in fact that the NAP would be a moral basis for government.
This is precisely what I meant by "breezy degeneracy".

Blogger liberranter March 11, 2020 12:24 PM  

[Dutton] is married to a Lutheran pastor of all things and speaks quite fondly of Christians.

Then he's either gay, or he's married to a woman who is defying Scripture by usurping a man's role. Either way, this effectively revokes any "Christian" credentials he might claim.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 11, 2020 12:25 PM  

Is there an evil celebrated by the Left that is not implicitly supported by the Non-Aggression Principle?

Blogger Akulkis March 11, 2020 12:26 PM  

Jesus did not say "money is the root of all evil"

Jesus said "the LOVE OF MONEY is the root of all evil."

Big difference.

Jesus never once complained about money, and even told his disciples to use money. Money is what allows us to have a non-barter economy, which is much more efficient than EVERY transaction of goods and/or services requires finding the exact piece of terrain in which an n-leg stool with legs of different lengths will perfectly balance with the foot of each leg JUST touching the ground.

LOVE OF MONEY is what creates cretinous horrors like George Soros and Bill Gates.

Blogger JamesB.BKK March 11, 2020 12:31 PM  

Not clinging, My annual federal income tax bills while offshore and loss of privacy through a presumption of criminality are sure irksome though. "Just leave if you don't like it," they say. But the FINCEN and FATCA follow. These push one hard to the leave me alone camp, Maybe OT. If so, sorry. And, attempting to address definitional problems by referring to those people, not make any appeal, or so I suspected.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd March 11, 2020 12:38 PM  

Lunchbag Lizard wrote:The worst part of all this is the fact that so many people on the dissident right see Christianity as a problem and not the solution that it is.
They correctly see Churchianity as a problem, and not as the solution that Christianity is.

It's time for Christians to burn heretics, at least metaphorically.

Blogger SidVic March 11, 2020 12:41 PM  

"If I had to give a prime example of Conservative Tailgater it would be Z-man."
-Mantra I'm having trouble understanding your point. Is it criticism? Z started out as a commentator/troll at national review, and has a blog. A increasingly influential blog, but still a blog nonetheless. He has only begun accepting donations within the last several months. Those of us in this thing need to strive to be more equanimous. Our ranks are composed of contrarians and iconoclasts, almost by definition so it makes it hard. Everybody has a role and finite resources to devote to this thing (i.e irl jobs must be maintained). Finally, a certain tension does exist with Christianity. It definitely is a civilizing force that reduces internecine feuding and counterproductive tribalism. But it also leaves us more open to subversive alien ideologies and invasions.

Blogger dc.sunsets March 11, 2020 12:49 PM  

Libertarianism, even its purest form (market-order/anarchism) is always as just a subset of Leftism, i.e., it embraces an entirely artificial belief about mankind, that humans are equal (in all ways that matter) and rational. Libertarianism is just another sect in the Universalist Cult.

Humans are demonstrably not equal in many ways that matter greatly, and there is ample evidence in science and in daily life that humans are largely irrational, especially in groups (emotion is not reason.) The always-rational human is as fictional as is Gene Roddenberry's Mr. Spock. Positing an organizing principle on fiction is magical thinking at its most visible.

Different people prefer (or need) different organizing principles. This is why Africa should be for Africans, Europe should be for Europeans and why the North American Melting Pot is actually just the caldera of a volcano waiting to erupt.

Just because one organizing principle worked for one people yielding unprecedented wealth and ease, is not a reason it can work for all peoples who show up and demand a cut of the swag. It is, however, a great way to demonstrate that "nothing sets up failure like success."

That the engine of American Prosperity was squandered by the children of those who created it is just a collective version of "shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in three generations."

Blogger Scuzzaman March 11, 2020 1:03 PM  

It's not at all difficult to get away from those nations where Christian thought dominates our history, culture, political institutions, and laws.

But those born in these countries, who also have an obsession with destroying Christianity, are suspiciously careful to remain in our countries.

And many millions of those born outside of our countries are risking death and impoverishment to come here.

As has been quoted here before:

"wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."

Blogger Scuzzaman March 11, 2020 1:08 PM  

Libertarianism doesn't work, it has never worked, it will never work, and it will never, ever, even be partially implemented.

It produces nice profits for the prophets of libertarianism who do not live in a libertarian society.

Blogger Out of Nod March 11, 2020 1:23 PM  

...a certain tension does exist with Christianity. It definitely is a civilizing force that reduces internecine feuding and counterproductive tribalism. But it also leaves us more open to subversive alien ideologies and invasions.

This is deep; I would have disagreed and thrown it out on initial reading. I assume you mean "alien ideologies and invasions" relating to the fact that the variant which we call "churchianity" aims to be a healer of the world, a promoter of diversity, and generally rolls over whenever an unpopular moral conflicts present themselves, in which case I'd agree. However, in its historic context, this was not always the case and it often stood as the last defense against such lies. I believe that it will continue to be that way as long as there are still "7000 who haven't bent the knee to Baal".

Blogger ZhukovG March 11, 2020 1:39 PM  

@Snidely Whiplash: My understanding of NAP is that I am not allowed to do harm to you, unless you are trying to harm me or some innocent. At that point the equally important principle of Self Defense take precedence over NAP.

That said, it does not change the fact that Libertarianism like all ideologies crashes and burns when it runs smack into Human Nature. It is interesting to me that both Libertarianism and Communism seem to attract an inordinate number of atheists. It is also interesting that Communism, however imperfectly practiced, has a much better track record of success than Libertarianism.

At the end of the day, if it is Liberty you desire, then you must have an explicitly Christian society.

Blogger Akulkis March 11, 2020 2:04 PM  

OT: World Health Organization just declared Coronavirus a pandemic.

Blogger JamesB.BKK March 11, 2020 2:56 PM  

, i.e., it embraces an entirely artificial belief about mankind, that humans are equal

Murray Rothbard wrote a book entitled, Egalitarianism As A Revolt Against Nature. Not dropping names or appealing to authority. Just sayin' that at least one self described libertarian [anarcho-capitalist?] did that.

The non aggression principle holds that violence in defense of self and others is not aggression and therefore is justified. There are ways to frame arguments that its adherents are not inherently supporting a freak fest - using defense of self and others, including application prophylactically. Tom Woods is a Catholic that supports a return to the Latin Mass among other anti-reforms. If he could speak for himself it is likely that he would report that he is astounded to learn that he supports degeneracy and wanton debauchery, but I am unsure of his stand on the red pope. He's a huge Yes proponent too, which as we all know can make one loathsome.

Lots of libertarians have big beautiful walls around their property perimeters, abodes, and each room therein. With locking doors. There is no inherent reason those things could not extend to other area boundaries even if Koch Bros via Reason and CATO have been peddling that line in league with chamber of commerce types and more imported leftist voters advocates. Admittedly there are plenty that argue about boundaries as fictitious obstructions. They are probably infected with CivNAT-65 though?

The issue is that those committing such violence on behalf of others would look a lot like police and need to be under some control which would look a lot like the state. A second major issue is the one raised by Owen - as a kill shot he asserts - that protection of minors and other persons lacking capacity from supposedly consensual relationships would be absent.

Blogger Stilicho March 11, 2020 3:10 PM  

libertarianism is the reductio ad absurdum of the concept of ordered liberty. Libertarianism is a leftist perversion of minarchism.

Now if we could just find a minarchist monarch and a mechanism to keep him that way...

Blogger dc.sunsets March 11, 2020 3:20 PM  

@41 ZhukovG
Obviously, Christianity is a belief in something that transcends Earthly existence, so it can be neither proved nor disproved via reason or empiricism. Leftism in all its variants (including libertarianism) is belief in something that is visibly untrue ABOUT this Earthly existence. Left theology is empirically disproved every day, at each point of the compass, proving that "we just haven't done it right yet."

The latter is the Religion of Wishful Thinking. It replaces a higher being (God) with the notion that Man (or Womyn, now of course) is God, because "we" can alter the very Laws of Nature. Of course, this is as absurd as is the belief that aeronautical engineering alters the laws of physics.

The Laws of our Universe, and of life itself, are inviolable. They can be harnessed to generate electricity and thus do work, and they can be harnessed to do horrible things (atom bombs, Sarin gas, "gender-confirming surgical mutilation" and bioengineered plagues.) But however the laws came about, they exist entirely independent of human desire.

The phenomenal rise in living standards in the West these past 250 years, especially today's Jetsons' level of gizmos (that virtually 0% of people understand) "informed" people that humans could change the rules of the game, and so Progressives set about immamentizing the eschaton by, instead of preaching to the choir, seizing the sledge hammer of political systems to end sin (and sinners...aka deplorables.)

Everyone believes something. I think it's quite the paradox that Self-described atheists deride Christians for belief in a "Sky God" while themselves believing in Universalist dogma that has a perfect record of failure. I guess Colin Flaherty's "denial, deceit and delusion" pretty much sums up our Cult Theocracy's main sacrament even as his library of videos proves that empiricism persuades no one.

Blogger Doctor Mayhem March 11, 2020 3:25 PM  

@Red Bane

Ugh... When Vandal Bros invented White Sharia, they didn't intend for Spencer et all to actually embrace Islam.

Blogger spacehabitats March 11, 2020 3:29 PM  

Another example a false notion that seems surprisingly seductive to otherwise intelligent people is the boomer-bashing meme.

While the idea was originally promoted by MSM articles and Hollywood stereotypes, it seems to have resonated and now is being perpetuated primarily by white Euro-Americans on the dissident right.

This is especially ironic since the term "boomer" is aimed rhetorically almost exclusively at their own racial group, the last generation to have a first hand experience living in an ethnically homogeneous America, and ignores the overwhelming influence of certain ethnic minority over the news media, academia, entertainment, banking and politics that began long before boomers were born and continues to this day.

I guess I can understand the appeal of being able to blame another generation for all of one's current challenges. Although I'm not sure if it is much more sophisticated than blaming your astrological sign.

But from a political perspective, at least for a white nationalist, it certainly is more self-defeating.

Blogger Jehu March 11, 2020 3:30 PM  

Unless you're Japan, it's basically a non-starter to have a large, high-trust society without pervasive Christianity. And trying to be Japan without nearly exclusively Japanese has never been made to work. People take a high-trust society for granted, but it really sucks when it is gone.

Blogger Wraithburn March 11, 2020 4:08 PM  

As Hallpike points out, "Rights" like the NAP both are unsupported by a darwinian view of life and make no sense attached to individual humans. A human can have an attribute like height. The right to vote only makes sense in the context of a specific society that human is within.

Leaving both those flaws aside, the NAP is incompatible with Christianity. As an example, the NAP can be argued to allow a mother to abort her child because it is stealing her resources. Or the NAP can state abortion is her aggression against the child which the unborn is now free to defend themselves from. Nowhere is the defense of the helpless. Nowhere does the NAP have any room for outsiders to step in. Nowhere does our duty to God preempt every man doing what is right in his own eyes.

Ezekiel 22:6-7, "Look, the princes of Israel: each one has used his power to shed blood in you. In you they have made light of father and mother; in your midst they have oppressed the stranger; in you they have mistreated the fatherless and the widow."

God watches our society, He sees when we do not step in to protect those unable to defend themselves from predation.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 11, 2020 4:27 PM  

spacehabitats wrote:Another example a false notion that seems surprisingly seductive to otherwise intelligent people is the boomer-bashing meme.
Ok Boomer.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 11, 2020 4:33 PM  

JamesB.BKK wrote:. There are ways to frame arguments that its adherents are not inherently supporting a freak fest - using defense of self and others, including application prophylactically.
So you're saying that the NAP means I can throw Gays off of rooftops, to protect my kids prophylactically.
I'm pretty sure there's no way to split the baby that way. The NAP either allows the state to suppress vice by vigorous action, or it implicitly or more commonly supports the vice. Since the chief attraction of Libertarianism among it's adherents is it's steadfast refusal to sanction the suppression vice, I'm going to go with "Tom Woods is a fool."

Blogger rumpole5 March 11, 2020 4:38 PM  

I didn't see any link to Christianity in the Z man's post, but the point is certainly applicable to the problem of high IQ people going down the philosophical rabbit hole for tea with the hatter and red queen. Z man gave 2 examples of pernicious philosophies attractive to the high cognition group, and Christianity was not one of them.

Blogger Lunchbag Lizard March 11, 2020 4:55 PM  

Does anyone here know of any good Christian apologetic resources out there that directly challenge the claims made by the neo-pagans?

Blogger Sweet, Sweet Victory March 11, 2020 5:01 PM  

I have some Lunchbag Lizard, but they are in Greek.

Blogger Stocky Anglo March 11, 2020 5:01 PM  

I liked being a libertarian in college (I fell for it hard). Looking back at the why behind my sympathies it was a function of not being able to identify with any other popular movement and lack of exposure to right-wing ideas. I only bring this up because I think there are likely a lot of folks in the libertarian camp that are like I was. Not smart enough to see the logical falicies of NAP without someone spoon feeding them. Same problem with free trade, free speech and on and on.

Blogger James Lovebirch March 11, 2020 5:17 PM  

An interesting quote tangentially related, from A South-Side View of Slavery by Nehemiah Adams p45

"Section IX. -- Absence of popular Delusions.

"There is another striking peculiarity of southern society which is attributable to slavery, and is very interesting to a northerner at the present day. While the colored people are superstitious and excitable, popular delusions and fanaticisms do not prevail among them. That class of society among us in which these things get root has a substitute in the colored population. Spiritual rappings, biology, second-adventism, Mormonism, and the whole spawn of errors which infest us, do not find subjects at the south."

Blogger Jack Amok March 11, 2020 5:21 PM  

This is especially ironic since the term "boomer" is aimed rhetorically almost exclusively at their own racial group...

Who sold them and their children out to the Globalists in exchange for being told they were the coolest generation with the best toys. Enjoy you Harley and your 401(k) while they last.

Blogger Jack Amok March 11, 2020 5:42 PM  

The non aggression principle. Ha. Our society is no longer violent enough to still be civilized. Civilization means civilized folks protect one another from thieves, thugs, grifters and other sociopaths. We don't do that any more - that would be too aggressive. Instead, we let them prey on our friends, family and neighbors.

You'll notice, dear Libertarians, that our government still does forcefully collect revenue, interfere with families, and implements heavy-handed regulation on most businesses, yet allows vagrants to crap on the streets while drag queens conduct story time for children. The only gains libertarians have made is to decriminalize behavior that creates public chaos and more proles on the dole, leading to ever more government spending.

It's a failed philosophy.

Blogger Kingly Gift March 11, 2020 6:01 PM  

@29 and @30
You guys made a lot of assumptions about what I was defending. Nowhere in my post did I say I reject retributive justice, or defend licentiousness. I believe that broadly speaking, the 10 commandment define sin. Although these "wrongs" are self evident, having Divine revelation to back up these self evident Truths, gives them a greater degree of certainty and authority. If anyone, King or elected official, breaks any of the 10 commandments, they have sinned against God and their fellow man. And society should take reasonable action to censure them ("if any many sheds man's blood, by man, his blood shall be shed.") Of course, not every sin needs capital punishment, we can use practical consideration as to how best to punish evil doers.

What we shouldn't do is institutionalize theft or deceit or any other sin by means of the State. Most of the arguments you threw at me were instances where the State itself is protecting the evil doers. Also, we shouldn't assume that because the State is in place, we are free from the personal responsibility to censure bad actors.

I believe Liberty is not really a useful word and should only be applied in it's ancient sense of a Nation not being ruled by foreign Nations or peoples. But if a Libertarian is pointing out the sins of the State, they are speaking the truth, and in that capacity, they bring something good to the discussion.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine March 11, 2020 6:03 PM  

"I'm going to go with "Tom Woods is a fool.""

I suspect malice.

As for vice... it doesn't need to be supported. Like a weed, it just needs to be tolerated, it'll do the rest on its own. There is indeed no way to split the baby. Refusing to work against evil is itself evil.

Blogger Dad29 March 11, 2020 6:16 PM  

[Z's] problems are his rejection of Christianity,

Educated by the Jesuits in HS, so that was almost a given. Was at my 50th Jebby HS reunion a while back; anecdotally, about 60% of the attendees are not practicing Catholics any more.

Blogger bara March 11, 2020 7:01 PM  

Oh yes, the good old Gods of the Copybook Headings.

http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_copybook.htm

Blogger Rek. March 11, 2020 7:01 PM  

Seriously, learn to read.

Blogger Rek. March 11, 2020 7:09 PM  

We are not talking theology here, so yes he is married to a woman. I am simply stating that Dutton really likes Christians and commands Europeans to be ethnocentric.

Blogger mmaier2112 March 11, 2020 7:23 PM  

I dunno... even around Lew Rockwell.com, there seems to be a weariness underlying the place. Like they KNOW libertarianism is a utopian ideal but no one wants to be the first to say it.

Blogger John Rockwell March 11, 2020 7:38 PM  

@wgmeisheid

Only Islam seemed capable of holding Christianity back. This is why all of Christian North Africa, Levant and Anatolia remain predominantly Muslim after conquests.

Blogger John Rockwell March 11, 2020 7:48 PM  

You know I do wonder how certain Atheists I know like Stardusk(Thinking-ApeTV) and Spetsnaz manage to see the beauty and intricacy of nature and their testimony about God and utterly ignore God.

They see a pitless universe and a life worth living as long as one draws breath even though oblivion awaits them.

Finding contentment in a godless universe trapped in damning delusion.

Blogger JamesB.BKK March 11, 2020 8:21 PM  

Another example a false notion that seems surprisingly seductive to otherwise intelligent people is the boomer-bashing meme.

I saw someone claim this meme to be an example of glowies sowing conflict in the comment boards at reddit or 8chan to build up some intergenerational strife. Where I read it is escaping me now.

Blogger ScottC March 11, 2020 8:28 PM  

Z-Man has a meandering, ponderous writing style. I can't read more than a paragraph of his stuff.

Blogger Up from the pond March 11, 2020 8:29 PM  

Walter Block is a Jew who wrote the book _Defending the Undefendable_.

The harsh criticism of libertarian intellectuals is not that most of them support open borders and free trade. Most "conservatives" support those evil things, too. It's that libertarian intellectuals are the worm-tongues. They provide the most consistent ideological impetus to, and rationalization of, those evils and others.

I keep telling people the Ayn Rand Institute is a major provider of "intellectual ammunition" for the so-called Washington Consensus of open borders and free trade and for all kinds of Luciferians. It's irrelevant who was pissed off at whom - Rothwell at Rand or vice-versa - in the 1960s. All the "muh principles" people aside from Hoppe are animated by dreck like this: www.hblist.com/immigr.htm

As Jerry Tuccille wrote, "It Usually Begins with Ayn Rand."

For more on the nation-wrecking perfidy of the ARI: ariwatch.com.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 11, 2020 9:03 PM  

JamesB.BKK wrote:I saw someone claim this meme to be an example of glowies sowing conflict in the comment boards at reddit or 8chan to build up some intergenerational strife.
You could translate that to "When you meme against Boomers, you meme with Rod Rosenstein."

Blogger liberranter March 11, 2020 9:27 PM  

@65: Yes. I think "movement" Libertarianism (for lack of a better term) right now is where Communism was in the late 50s/early 60s: nobody any longer seriously believes that it works in the real world, but the movement's primary figures have too much invested in it --personally AND financially-- to kill it. Compare the contents of a typical daily LRC feed to its ancestors of 20 years ago, and you can tell that the zeal is gone. Whereas content used to be always on topic, nowadays the site links to all sorts of weird, random bullshit that has nothing identifiable to do with Libertarianism.

@70:

Walter Block is a Jew who wrote the book _Defending the Indefensible_.

(((The Tribe))) dominates both Libertarianism and Communism, and for the same ends. I wonder how many of the un-deprogrammed Libertarians seriously believe that this is a coincidence?

Blogger ZhukovG March 11, 2020 9:43 PM  

The man who serves himself has a tyrant for a master.

Matthew 11:28-29 King James Version (KJV)
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.


Blogger Monotonous Languor March 11, 2020 10:32 PM  

Libertarians have the cart before the horse. In their gammatude, they believe that a pristine set of perfect ideals is sufficient for people to set up a perfect community. The problem is that you first need a cohesive community of like-minded people with the same genetic and cultural background. Then they'll not only embrace the ideals, but do whatever it takes to maintain them. The community also needs to codify strict entry criteria to prevent incompatible elements from entering and degrading it. Prior to any constitution of libertarian principles, it's absolutely essential to devise a preamble that codifies foundational pillars to define the community. If that community isn't present, then the constitution doesn't apply.

Every libertarian I've every argued with refuses to understand this cause-effect dependency. They're mesmerized by the beauty of their theories, and will double-down defending them. And then they vehemently object when presented with their history of being useful idiots for every leftist policy that's come down the pike. Libertarians are a batch of useless morons.

Blogger JamesB.BKK March 11, 2020 10:34 PM  

Rod Rosenstein can't meme.

Blogger Green Mountain Bear March 11, 2020 11:35 PM  

Youtube began to grabble the Darkstream precisely at the momemnt Vox began speaking on his faith in Christ in the episode "the challenge of evil" at about the 31:00 minute mark. As this pattern emerges seems youtube is literally being run by evil. Has anyone else noticed this grabble pattern on the topic of faith?

Blogger mike March 11, 2020 11:43 PM  

Here here

Blogger jarheadljh March 12, 2020 1:34 AM  

Jack Amok wrote:The non aggression principle. Ha. Our society is no longer violent enough to still be civilized.

You do realize that the non-aggression principle is a license to kill, yes? Libertarianism begins with the assumption that government is violence-incarnate and then asks "when is it morally right to use violence?" The answer is when another means to harm you or has harmed you.

The harm does not actually have to be intentional, nor proportional to the response. It only has to occur or be certain to occur, and the response is determined by the wronged party. This does not work in civilization because civilization naturally domesticates the population. This can only work in a colony, where the settlers are high IQ, high time preference, independent minded, and their numbers sparse with lots of territory in between. In other words, libertarians made the mistake of projecting what worked for frontier America onto every other society and nation on Earth as though it were a universal truth and not peculiar to one specific time, place, people, and set of circumstances.

Then the Beltway Libertarians and other gamma pantywastes latched onto the work of earlier thinkers as intellectual covers for their vices and weaknesses. From what I can tell, Lew Rockwell's bunch are the only libertarians left, and they are dying out. The rest are left-libertines who realized that they could have their drugs & debauchery without the taxes required to clean up the resulting mess.

What I don't understand is why you then declare it to be a failed philosophy when it has not been applied within our lifetimes. Arguably, in our grandparents lifetimes.

Last time I checked, I lived in the United States of Licensed Privileges, where I have to pay the government annual tribute to pretend that I own land, surrender half of my income under potential penalty of death should I resist, pay a fee to catch a fish, to get married, or drive an automobile on the government road(something the government has a monopoly on building and maintaining) which is a requirement to participate in the strictly regulated economy. Hell, if I want to change something in my home that I pay annual tribute on I have to pay the government further tribute, and then seek approval from a bureaucrat, often after multiple consultations and inspections which have little or nothing to do with statutory requirements and everything to do with the bureaucrat justifying the existence of their job. So yes, please go on about how libertarianism failed us.

Blogger Up from the pond March 12, 2020 3:11 AM  

If you're a libertarian at 20, you have no heart. If you're a libertarian at 40, you have no brain.

Blogger Up from the pond March 12, 2020 3:20 AM  

There are a lot of "fruits" in libertarianism.

Ol' Bob Wallace wrote an expose titled "The Libertarian Poofter" after the Lavender Private Defense Force kicked him out.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine March 12, 2020 4:06 AM  

"Has anyone else noticed this grabble pattern on the topic of faith?"

Every time someone's trying to take down a monument of the Ten Commandments, a scriptural plaque, or ban prayer from school, (((well))) it's somehow always a certain sort of person. You'd think they'd be all for the ten commandments, but they quite apparently feel they have gotten over them.

"This does not work in civilization because civilization naturally domesticates the population. This can only work in a colony, where the settlers are high IQ, high time preference, independent minded, and their numbers sparse with lots of territory in between."

Not even. Let me direct you to your earlier more precise words:

"The harm does not actually have to be intentional, nor proportional to the response. It only has to occur or be certain to occur, and the response is determined by the wronged party."

Then let us consider the Tragedy of the Commons. One could say that the commons is no one's property, so no one can say they are harmed when it is consumed, but that would be dishonest. Air, air is in the vast majority of places one of the commons, and it is necessary for our lives to continue, and even someone else breathing nearby is reducing the quality of air and thereby harming us.

What about availability of desirable mates? Anyone looking to secure a particularly desirable mate is reducing the desirability of the remaining population of potential mates and thereby harming us.

The list goes on and on and on. Water? Food? Housing materials? Patents? Job niches? Popularity? Life is inherently aggressive as opposed to passive, and harm will be done.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine March 12, 2020 4:08 AM  

"What I don't understand is why you then declare it to be a failed philosophy when it has not been applied within our lifetimes."

It's self-referentially inapplicable. It cannot even sustain the environment it needs to operate, let alone create it.

Blogger Akulkis March 12, 2020 6:49 AM  

"I saw someone claim this meme to be an example of glowies sowing conflict in the comment boards at reddit or 8chan to build up some intergenerational strife."

If by "intergenerational strife" you mean letting those in younger generations realize that they will soon have the numbers to defend themselves from Boomers, because EVERYBODY ELSE hates the Boomers, then yes.

As far as the more normal definition -- the Boomers ARE intergenerational strife. When they were young, they attacked their parents and grandparents. Once they became parents, they started attacking the younger generations as well.

For example, in my town, a "youth activity center" built when boomers were kids... was suddenly designated the "senior citizen activity center" once the boomers started hitting retirement age.

They have the money -- they could have built a new structure for themselves ... but Noooooo, they had to steal it from the kids.

That building was built by the WW2 & Silent generations ... intended for children, no matter when they were born. Boomers, of course, say, "MINE! MINE! MINE!" and betrayed the legacy.

Corona-chan can't do it's work quickly enough.

Blogger The Lab Manager March 12, 2020 7:08 AM  

I've always liked some aspects of libertarianism, but to live in such a community, it requires others to be on the same page with you and not be total moral degenerates. Libertarians are infected with the leftist stupidity of 'equality' and refuse to acknowledge that race, IQ, and culture matter. Libertarianism is a Western concept and requires for the most part White Europeans. I'm still waiting for all those limited government Latin Americans from south of the border to save us and that Sharia law loving LGBT libertarian Muslim.

Blogger jarheadljh March 12, 2020 8:27 AM  

Azure Amaranthine wrote:

Then let us consider the Tragedy of the Commons. One could say that the commons is no one's property, so no one can say they are harmed when it is consumed, but that would be dishonest. ...


And I already addressed all of this : "libertarians made the mistake of projecting what worked for frontier America onto every other society and nation on Earth as though it were a universal truth and not peculiar to one specific time, place, people, and set of circumstances. "

Something does not have to be permanent to be a success. And history demonstrates that in fact the people living in what is now the United States figured all of that out without killing each other. I'm not arguing for bringing all of that back(some of it definitely), I'm lamenting that it can never come back. The circumstances of that time, place, and people will never again be replicated.

Blogger Akulkis March 12, 2020 9:49 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger James Dixon March 12, 2020 11:17 AM  

> Let us take Dave Smith and Tom Woods as examples.

NALALT is not a defense that's going to convince anyone.

> These exhortations can only be explained by a long, drawn-out exegesis that attempts to make some kind of distinction between them and leftism.

You know, it really helps to have any idea what you're talking about when making a claim. Hint, Leftists always lie.

> Jesus did not say "money is the root of all evil" ... Jesus said "the LOVE OF MONEY is the root of all evil."

Jesus didn't say either. It's from 1 Timothy 6.

> Now if we could just find a minarchist monarch and a mechanism to keep him that way...

Severely limit his ability to delegate authority. Without the various government agencies that Congress delegates it's legislative authority to (unconstitutionally so, I might add), we wouldn't have half the problems we do.

Blogger Balam March 12, 2020 12:45 PM  

Monotonous Languor wrote:Libertarians have the cart before the horse. In their gammatude, they believe that a pristine set of perfect ideals is sufficient for people to set up a perfect community. The problem is that you first need a cohesive community of like-minded people with the same genetic and cultural background. Then they'll not only embrace the ideals, but do whatever it takes to maintain them.

Agreed and possibly even more severe than you say. In my experience when the people are right the stated 'ideals' don't matter very much. It's a pretty weak life experience but in all the roleplaying games I've participated in when you have a high trust group you can act like a mass of cannibals, virtuous knights, or evil schemers and everyone helps it work out. When you have a dysfunctional group of low trusters they can hardly agree on how to fight a single goblin.

Blogger Jack Amok March 12, 2020 12:57 PM  

Last time I checked, I lived in the United States of Licensed Privileges...

Indeed, and you might notice that I'd already pointed out all the libertarian mewling of the last several decades accomplished was to decriminalize behavior that is destructive to civilization while government continued to grow and grow.

As Azure already said: "It cannot even sustain the environment it needs to operate, let alone create it."

Blogger Azure Amaranthine March 12, 2020 2:26 PM  

"And I already addressed all of this : "libertarians made the mistake of projecting what worked for frontier America"

Frontier America was not libertarian, or operating on a pseudo or ersatz libertarian system, or even libertarian leaning. Is that clear enough? The conception that it was is a weed-induced fantasy.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 12, 2020 2:40 PM  

The American Frontier was a place of law and order.

Blogger Up from the pond March 12, 2020 6:57 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Up from the pond March 12, 2020 8:13 PM  

>>"Libertarians are infected with the leftist stupidity of 'equality' and refuse to acknowledge that race, IQ, and culture matter. Libertarianism is a Western concept and requires for the most part White Europeans."

Libertarianism is hard-core egalitarianism. It is premised on the idea that "man" is one thing therefore all men have equal rights. Of course it considers race, IQ, and culture to be fundamentally unimportant; maybe interesting, but wholly irrelevant to "libertarian principles."

That also explains the economic assumptions of libertarianism, which work only if everyone is equally just an economic unit in an equation. For the equation to work, one must believe that all people are interchangeable, equivalent greed-sacks, i.e., "rational" actors. And if any aren't, then they must be forced to be so.

Nor is libertarianism a "Western concept" in the sense of originating from "White Europeans." It's semitic, about half of its fountainheads being German Jews (example: von Mises) and the other half being Slavic Jews (example: Alisa Rosenbaum, aka "Ayn Rand"). It was pitched to appeal to White Europeans, though, specifically to British landowners and their descendants, i.e., Americans. Americans are independent spirits jealous of their rights, not cooperative little bugmen who can be easily ruled. They like any idea promising low taxes and
talking about property rights.

Now they're told by libertarianism that they're racists who must be swept aside by Turd Worlders because Turd Worlders are more efficient economic units, and borders, race, IQ, and culture are a violation of "individual rights."

www.hblist.com/immigr.htm

http://ariwatch.com/TheAscensionOfJasonHill.htm

The mask is off libertarianism. It was egalitarian, Bolshevist, and rotten from the beginning.

Blogger jarheadljh March 12, 2020 8:35 PM  

Jack Amok wrote:Last time I checked, I lived in the United States of Licensed Privileges...

Indeed, and you might notice that I'd already pointed out all the libertarian mewling of the last several decades accomplished was to decriminalize behavior that is destructive to civilization while government continued to grow and grow.


You're honestly giving libertarians way more credit than I ever would have because I wouldn't credit them with anything. Being less than 2% of a population will do that.

"decriminalize behavior that is destructive to civilization"

And what major push by the Rothbardian hoardes have the pillars of society crumbling down around you? Have you started to spot copies of "Democracy : The God that Failed" being tossed around your local Antifa chapter or in your legislatures? Can you even name a single libertarian politician except Ron Paul? A single author outside Ayn Rand, who isn't actually even a libertarian and wrote at length against them(and who was hated by Rothbard in return)?

Let me try a different approach... "As Azure already said: "It cannot even sustain the environment it needs to operate, let alone create it."

Of course it can't. It's entirely the wrong tool for that job, or would you try to use a hammer to draw water from a well? I already pointed out that it was a major error of it's own proponents to assume so. We're not actually arguing.

Libertarianism is *settlement*, not civilization. It's the beachhead phase of colonization before any sort of efficient law enforcement infrastructure has been created.

Azure Amaranthine wrote:
Frontier America was not libertarian, or operating on a pseudo or ersatz libertarian system, or even libertarian leaning. Is that clear enough? The conception that it was is a weed-induced fantasy.


Snidely Whiplash wrote:The American Frontier was a place of law and order.

Have you ever been even half a day away from an available ambulance ride? Because this phrase "weed-induced fantasy" has me thinking probably not. You can have all the laws on paper you want and if there's no one around to enforce them they functionally don't exist. And that leaves the people involved having to figure things out themselves. Guess what, that's libertarianism.

It's how civilized people behave when they are outside civilization, and then not even all people from all civilizations. That's all it really is. It's not a "system." You put a system on top of it.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 12, 2020 11:37 PM  

jarheadljh wrote:Have you ever been even half a day away from an available ambulance ride? Because this phrase "weed-induced fantasy" has me thinking probably not. You can have all the laws on paper you want and if there's no one around to enforce them they functionally don't exist.
The first thing those hardy, independent minded natural Libertarians did when they settled in the howling wilderness was organize a government. The second thing they did was set up some form of law enforcement.
American pioneers were not "outside civilization". They brought their civilization with them, and it was decidedly NOT a Libertarian one.

Blogger JamesB.BKK March 13, 2020 5:43 AM  

One of those joo_s, Murray Rothbard, who was a prolific writer and also chronicler including about the noxious progressive movement and era where little old ladies were recruited as state agents and tattlers by nominally religious Christians who were gonna stamp out all that's wrong via gun toting govt agents among other things, wrote a book entitled, Egalitarianism As A Revolt Against Nature. It attacks the absurd idea of equality. It has premises, arguments, and facts. Is there any evidence to support a claim to the contrary that the philosophical basis was really to make rank atomizing egalitarians? There's about four people on here that made that particular claim. Also support that they were really Bolsheviks would be appreciated. Still not clinging, but some well supported points are needed for credibility.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine March 13, 2020 1:41 PM  

"You can have all the laws on paper you want and if there's no one around to enforce them they functionally don't exist. And that leaves the people involved having to figure things out themselves. Guess what, that's libertarianism."

Right up until you said "that's libertarianism" you were describing what happens everywhere all the time. Conclusion: You're functionally retarded.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine March 13, 2020 1:43 PM  

"It's how civilized people behave when they are outside civilization, and then not even all people from all civilizations."

Oh, now he's trying to define our ethnic culture as libertarianism. Go fuck yourself, wormtongue.

Blogger Dollar Bill Stern March 13, 2020 6:16 PM  

I have an IQ of 137 and I believe in ghosts, or another invisible realm or plane that can slip through and in to our reality, maybe even be conjured from time to time

Blogger Jack Amok March 14, 2020 2:45 AM  

You can have all the laws on paper you want and if there's no one around to enforce them they functionally don't exist. And that leaves the people involved having to figure things out themselves. Guess what, that's libertarianism.

Well, at least he's honest enough to admit libertarians don't have a clue and have to improvise everything on the spot any time there's an issue. That would probably be why they screw up so often. A smarter move would be to work out how you do all that ahead of time.

Like how I teach people Wilderness First Aid, so they know what to do if they're a half-day away from help.

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