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Monday, September 28, 2020

How's that postchristianity working out for you?

Richard Dawkins is discovering that the postchristian society he helped bring about isn't necessarily to his liking:

The College Historical Society (the Hist) has tonight rescinded its invitation to Richard Dawkins to address the society next year.

Auditor of the Hist Bríd O’Donnell announced the cancellation in a statement on her Instagram page, saying that she had been “unaware of Richard Dawkins’ opinions on Islam and sexual assault until this evening”, adding that the society “will not be moving ahead with his address as we value our members comfort above all else”.

“The invitation to Richard Dawkins to speak at the society was made by my predecessor and I followed up the invitation with limited knowledge of Mr. Dawkins”, O’Donnell said. “I had read his Wikipedia page and researched him briefly. Regretfully I didn’t look further into him before moving forward with the invitation.”

“I want to thank everyone who pointed out this valuable information to me”, O’Donnell added. “I truthfully hope we didn’t cause too much discomfort and if so, I apologise and will rectify it.”

No Christianity, no inquiry, no science. Dawkins's central thesis was not only wrong, it was backward. Christianity and science are not only NOT at war, Christianity is a necessary condition for science, logically, historically, and observably. 

UPDATE: Bruce Charleton notes that Richard Dawkins simply lacks the intellectual courage to question his godless convictions, or even to contemplate the relevant evidence.

A few years ago I met Richard Dawkins at a small, relaxed party.

I had a question I wanted to put to him.

At the time I was not a Christian, but I was interested in religions and was (for example) studying religiosity and atheism in relation to personality.

I had discovered that over the same period of the twentieth century that the US had risen to scientific eminence it had undergone a significant Christian revival.

The point I put to Dawkins was that the USA was simultaneously by-far the most dominant scientific nation in the world (I knew this from various scientometic studies I was doing at the time) and by-far the most religious (Christian) nation in the world.

How, I asked, could this be - if Christianity was culturally inimical to science?

Dawkins simply shook off this point, with a literal shake of his head looking downwards, and the comment to the effect that the scientists and Christians were two entirely different groups of people.

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71 Comments:

Blogger DeepThought September 28, 2020 1:38 PM  

Muslims do what Christians were afraid to do.

All people of faith should not allow those who oppose their views into their institutions.

Blogger Silent Cal September 28, 2020 1:39 PM  

"Christianity is a necessary condition for science, logically, historically, and observably."

Amen.

Blogger Pathfinderlight September 28, 2020 1:47 PM  

It's not just the muslims at fault here. Marxist religion very much has the required hate of the West and places will to dominate above adherence to truth.

Blogger sammibandit September 28, 2020 1:48 PM  

The great minds of the Islamic Golden Age were heretics. Islam prohibits close study of anything but the Word, which is perfect.

Blogger Nikolai Collushnikov September 28, 2020 1:52 PM  

“unaware of Richard Dawkins’ opinions on Islam and sexual assault until this evening”
I know Islam's opinion of sexual assault is problematic but I'm unaware of Dawkins' opinion.

Blogger Doom September 28, 2020 2:00 PM  

Dawkins meet Martin Luther, Martin Luther, meet Richard Dawkins. Protest much? Always left behind by the revolution one starts... right or wrong.

Blogger 2Bfree September 28, 2020 2:06 PM  

"Christianity and science are not only NOT at war, Christianity is a necessary condition for science, logically, historically, and observably."

a lot of VD's blog entry's last sentences are meme worthy

Blogger sammibandit September 28, 2020 2:06 PM  

Amen

Blogger Robert What? September 28, 2020 2:06 PM  

As a physics major in college it was science that convinced me of the rightness of Christianity.

Blogger Crush Limbraw September 28, 2020 2:07 PM  

Christianity - not to be confused with Churchianity - is truth and reality.
Accept it or die!

Blogger Jack Ward September 28, 2020 2:11 PM  

Christianity is a necessary condition for science, logically, historically, and observably.

Concise and accurate. I am well acquainted with the Church of Christ Scientist and much of its teachings, though, not a member.
The CS founder, Mary Baker Eddie, felt that true science was founded and had its primary strength in Christianity. Her teaching of mental healing techniques was based very closely to the tenets of the Bible, and the very best of their Practitioners had Holy thought and an awareness of the Almighty near to their mental images of what healing could do.
Its regrettable that that church has fallen upon evil times along with much of our Christian tradition. Rare these days are Practitioners who are truly skilled enough to properly and effectively pray to God for his mercies and healings.
This is the one, primary reason I so much support Donald Trump with the hope he can salvage something of this country. He is far from a perfect man, but, much closer to that ideal than we, as a whole, probably deserve.

Blogger Dan in Georgia September 28, 2020 2:11 PM  

"...we value our members comfort above all else."
I love it when our enemies eat each other.

Blogger Major Styles September 28, 2020 2:13 PM  

I just put Brid O' Donnell's name into Jewgle to see what she looks like. I am guessing she is 23 or 24 tops. She is still a student actually: http://bridodonnell.com/

A friendly reminder that today's gatekeepers were watching Spongebob Squarepants just a few years ago.

Blogger John Regan September 28, 2020 2:21 PM  

We increasingly see these polemics, as with Richard Dawkins, that are really about epistemology, and the upshot is that the atheist epistemology, with its "science" fetishism, is superior to natural reason. It's really a meta-argument, an argument about the basis of arguing in the first place.

It winds up being self-refuting.

Blogger James September 28, 2020 2:26 PM  

"Christianity is a necessary condition for science, logically, historically, and observably." This is one of Vox's best quotes ever.

Blogger Azimus September 28, 2020 2:33 PM  

"as we value our members comfort above all else”.

...She said, to the surprise of absolutely no one.

Blogger Joe Smith September 28, 2020 2:37 PM  

Islam prohibits close study of anything but the Word, which is perfect.

No. Islam doesn't believe in the capital W Word. Whatever else Islam might do right, its grasp of logos is at best shoddy, and more likely non-existent. All this, "Islam venerates Jesus," nonsense is nonsense; Islam explicitly diminishes Jesus.

Blogger The Depolrable Podunk Ken Ramsey September 28, 2020 2:37 PM  

Didn't even merit a proper press release. Dawkins got thrown under the bus by a girl and her Instagram!

Blogger Didas Kalos September 28, 2020 2:40 PM  

@Doom. Thou dost indeed protest too much. Making heaven is much better than traditionally going to hell because deceived you are.

Blogger Argus Bacchus September 28, 2020 2:40 PM  

"We value our members comfort above all else”.

Yeah, we can tell.

Blogger Geir Balderson September 28, 2020 2:41 PM  

It is a boring time on college campuses nowadays. Everyone sits in their cardboard safe spaces and hums to themselves while drinking their soy milk.
No real thought or intelligence wafts out of their boxes. So sad.

Blogger Brick Hardslab September 28, 2020 2:45 PM  

They don't even mention what his verboten views are. Is it that Islamic students leave when her discusses evolution? How does that relate to sexual assault? Are we do delicate that the mere mention if the Islamic view of sexual assault will endanger us?

Blogger Krymneth September 28, 2020 2:48 PM  

Nikolai Collushnikov wrote:I know Islam's opinion of sexual assault is problematic but I'm unaware of Dawkins' opinion.

I literally can't remember if his problematic opinion is that he agrees with them or that he disagrees with them.

Blogger Barbarossa September 28, 2020 2:51 PM  

"...we value our members comfort above all else”.

Because, as we all know, the primary purpose of societies of intellectual inquiry is...comfort.

As for Dawkins, having turned his back on God in the foolish attempt to offer himself as a lesser but more accessible god to lesser mortals, it will be a very bitter pill to swallow to realize they have turned their back on (the decidedly lower case) him.

Blogger gunner451 September 28, 2020 2:51 PM  

2+2=5

Blogger Jeff aka Orville September 28, 2020 3:07 PM  

It seems the "intellectual" feebleminds need their comfort...above all else, especially truth.

Blogger Robert Browning September 28, 2020 3:25 PM  

Bríd O’Donnell??? I am telling you the Irish are the henchmen of the Jews. Exhibit A---Shaun King is Irish and he is inciting black to burn down Christian churches. Why are blacks supposed to hate the innocent Christ? The Jews have complete and total confidence in Irish treachery towards Christ and Christians.

Blogger Christopher John September 28, 2020 3:26 PM  

Major Styles wrote:I just put Brid O' Donnell's name into Jewgle to see what she looks like. I am guessing she is 23 or 24 tops. She is still a student actually: http://bridodonnell.com/

A friendly reminder that today's gatekeepers were watching Spongebob Squarepants just a few years ago.


You didn't need to look her up. "I had read his Wikipedia" was the tell that Brid couldn't be a day over 23.

It's all so Isaiah 3.

Blogger phunktor September 28, 2020 3:48 PM  

Too meta to be effective in short form;write the book. Please.

Blogger Sam September 28, 2020 4:15 PM  

@23
Religious ideals (like hell) are more damaging then abuse for children is his position. I believe he mentioned he was abused so... yeah, not going to touch that.

He is in the danger area where the left attacks for mentioning the area exists; you can't talk about child sexual abuse without the topic of faggots sodomizing little boys (the evil people really care about and would be killing over if the state wasn't crushing them) being implied and the more you speak, the more damage you do to its poor covering of left wing gobblygook.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan September 28, 2020 4:57 PM  

I'm wrong again, I had chosen amongst the idiot "Isms" of the left that Feminism would disappear before Atheism.

Looking back what a dumb prediction, autistic weirdo white men with absolutely no social game except what publicity they were astro turfed by the Prometheans didn't stand a chance against low IQ white females such as Brid.

And put me down for the sport of absolutely scourging that idiot Dawkins with the fact he was non-personed by a low IQ wikipedia researching girl.

Blogger van helsing September 28, 2020 5:01 PM  

O'Donnell is a nut and has no business being in that position. Dawkins is a practicing cuckertarian, oops, libertarian. A pox on both of them.

Blogger RadixMalorum September 28, 2020 5:13 PM  

Dawkin's ideology will create a failed society where people will literally kill and eat each other. You can already see the signs of it.

Blogger Irish Energy September 28, 2020 5:19 PM  

Hitchens at least had the courage

Blogger Reader September 28, 2020 6:06 PM  

Jimbob, who I and just about everyone else discovered through BB, does a hilarious and spot-on impression of Dawkins, among others (Made by Jimbob on YT). Jimbob's impressions of Dawkins capture the black soul and twisted mind of that slimy limey. Very entertaining. That is the only Dawkins I can stomach. As for the real Dawkins getting chewed up by his own godless culture, he should consider it as good practice for when he will be tormented for eternity by the absolute godlessness that he will have chosen for himself should he ultimately reject salvation through Jesus Christ.

Blogger bw September 28, 2020 6:11 PM  

with a literal shake of his head looking downwards

...they call that something in poker....

Blogger Didas Kalos September 28, 2020 6:17 PM  

@11 jackward. "Christian Science is a strange amalgam of teachings, which are quite different from Bible Christianity. It has another Gospel and another Jesus. Please note their distortion of the sacrifice of Christ:


Quote by CS
Final deliverance from error, whereby we rejoice in immortality, boundless freedom, and sinless sense, is not reached through paths of flowers nor by pinning one’s faith without works to another’s vicarious effort. Whosoever believeth that wrath is righteous or that divinity is appeased by human suffering, does not understand God."

So basically they blaspheme Christ by saying he is not the way to eternal life.

Blogger rcocean September 28, 2020 6:48 PM  

Right wingers always underestimate the fanaticism of the Left. Plenty of Commies ended up in the Gulag, and that didn't shake their faith in Communism or Marx. Plenty of Liberals have been mugged, and proudly became even more "soft on crime". The idea that Dawkins thinks his beliefs are now wrong, because he's getting "cancelled" is about zero. Quit thinking leftists are going to convert, and just enjoy their comeuppance.

Blogger Unknownsailor September 28, 2020 6:58 PM  

I will never understand the scientific hostility to religion. What was science, at the very beginning, but an attempt to understand the marvelous universe that God created? To know the universe is to know God.

Only fallen mankind could be so arrogant to believe that all the discoveries we have discerned about the universe would disprove the existence of God.

Blogger Dole September 28, 2020 7:11 PM  

It seems to be that the atheist community itself is waking up to this fact. It's been a long while since for example Sam Harris has even brought up a religion related issue. In fact, far more often he brings up issues that are caused by lack of God if anything.

There is a worship standing in the way of science - but it is not of the God the atheist community thought.

Blogger van helsing September 28, 2020 7:22 PM  

Hitchens went after Muslims and Christians. Of course he's courageous! Wrong. Just Jewish.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine September 28, 2020 7:31 PM  

""Do you think the wealthy and powerful long for the company of mercenary midwits lacking any semblance of decency loyalty curiosity honesty or any other virtue? What’s really going on here?"

Because psychopaths are entirely, only, and forever self-interested, they're reliable, predictable, and easily controlled by the threat of exposure. People with a sense of righteousness or even duty to society are a threat of exposure who might not care enough about going down with the ship, so only fellow psychopaths need apply once they're inside the organization upper management. They all risk exposure if one of them gets caught, so they'll all cooperate in a panic and frenzy to destroy anyone else."


Dawkins' fellow midwits would simply state that "correlation does not imply causation", which is false. Correlation doesn't necessitate causation, but it does heavily imply causal linkage.

"I know Islam's opinion of sexual assault is problematic but I'm unaware of Dawkins' opinion."

His opinion as an evolutionist places successful propagation as supreme.

Blogger Jack Ward September 28, 2020 7:44 PM  

37. Didas Kalos
You are completely wrong. CS members do not have another Bible, they do not have another Jesus and they certainly do not have another God.
In a CS service the First Reader reads from the Bible; the second Reader then reads from Mary Eddies Science and Health which is linked to passages in the Bible were the subject of the sermon. Usually, the First Reader is an accredited Practitioner. The Second is usually working toward the Practice. They are nominated and voted on by the laity of the particular CS church.
Their prime focus is to demonstrate an understanding of God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit by learning the most effective methods of prayer to God for His intercession for healing in body and spirit. Their success depends on commitment to the principals of living as devout a life as possible and, possibly, years of difficult effort in search of those methods that God does recognize as pleasing in His view. No CS practitioner or lay person will ever say that their power is what heals. They ask for healing in those ways that work. God provides the power that heals.
Interestingly, even a secular person can make effective Holy prayer work. Its just a lot easier if you believe and accept God and Jesus as saviors.
I do appreciate your response. Most people these days do not care. But, you need to do more in depth research into CS before making the pronouncements you did.
Unfortunately, the material world we are in now, especially materia medica has rendered CS healing much more rare. In the early decades of its existence, before MBE passed on in 1910, Healings were frequent and many were instantaneous.
Blessings to you and yours.

Blogger Werekoala September 28, 2020 7:45 PM  

Someone should tell Brid that they'll be coming for her too, soon enough.

Blogger Doktor Jeep September 28, 2020 8:14 PM  

Post-Christianity.
Civilization built on Christianity.

Oh oh

Blogger Chip Hazard September 28, 2020 8:38 PM  

It's not very Christian of me, but I want to kill the enemies of Christianity.

What say you, Pitchfork Rebel?

Or would you rather be ate by lions when you you have the tools, if not the will, to fight?

Blogger Chip Hazard September 28, 2020 8:44 PM  

@27

Our allies are not so close to female and queer dramatics that we need to embrace you. Perhaps you ought to choose Hollywood. They always need waiters and waitresses, no matter how tranny.

Blogger Blastman September 28, 2020 9:42 PM  

Stanley Jaki (1924 - 2009) was Hungarian born priest who had doctorates in theology and in physics and was one of the pioneers in writing (over 2 dozen books) about the rise of science in the Christian West and its history.

The Gifford lectures, an annual series of lectures on natural theology, established in 1887 by Adam Gifford, were given by Jaki in 1974–76 and compiled into the book "The Road of Science and the Ways to God."

Anyone interested in science and religion and the rise of science in the Christian West would do well to check out some of his books. This page … http://theor.jinr.ru/~kuzemsky/sljkbio.html … has a selected bibliography. Some of his books can be downloaded from the web.

Virtually all religions outside of Christianity have elements of pantheism or animism in them where god or beings permeate nature and the universe like some force being part of nature. This leads to a problematic view of the universe for the development of science -- is the moon orbiting the earth because some god is pushing it or willing it around -- is it willing itself around, or, is it orbiting the earth because it follows some natural law that God endowed a created and separate universe with? Is the apple falling from the tree because it "wills" itself to fall, because it was designed to fall (its purpose), the god of gravity, or is their some natural cause operating there? The Greeks and other cultures heavily influenced by their theology went down a path which animates nature in a pantheistic way and that resulted in an almost impossible task of separating purpose/design and animated wills in nature from the natural forces of physics and chemistry. It ended up in a dead end for science. The basic laws of physics like motion, momentum and conservation of energy make little sense in a pantheistic environment.

For a Christian, God is transcendent to the created universe -- he's not part of it. If the universe (created) doesn't exist, God still exists for a Christian. For pantheists, if you destroy the universe, their gods go with it. If one can't separate the gods from the universe -- what is a natural cause and what is being caused by the "gods," or an animated nature where material things all have wills, then it's almost impossible to formulate a correct theory of natural cases -- which leads to a real science that works.

Also, the Western University system has its origin in Medieval Christian Europe. The first universities in Europe such as U. of Paris, Oxford, and Cambridge were all Christian (Catholic) universities as were most -- too numerous to list, an offshoot of the monastic system, and these universities became great sources of learning, development, and preservation of the scientific knowledge base. It was in the first Christian universities that the differentiation of the sciences and their respective methods was developed. This came about largely because of Medieval Christians commitment to reason and rational argumentation and a theology that led to the correct view of nature and the universe.

Blogger John Rockwell September 28, 2020 9:50 PM  

The Logos is the basis for all Logic and consistency.

The Transcendental Argument for God is one of the most powerful out there.

Blogger John Rockwell September 28, 2020 9:52 PM  

rcocean wrote:Right wingers always underestimate the fanaticism of the Left. Plenty of Commies ended up in the Gulag, and that didn't shake their faith in Communism or Marx. Plenty of Liberals have been mugged, and proudly became even more "soft on crime". The idea that Dawkins thinks his beliefs are now wrong, because he's getting "cancelled" is about zero. Quit thinking leftists are going to convert, and just enjoy their comeuppance.

Many of unrepentant communists was shot by the paranoid Stalin.

Their Souls will experience the 2nd Death soon as a result of forsaking Jesus Christ.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine September 28, 2020 9:56 PM  

"I will never understand the scientific hostility to religion."

Oh, it's simple. Vain scientists want to appoint themselves priests and prophets instead of, you know, letting the actual priests and prophets do their thing.

Blogger Crunchy Cachalot September 28, 2020 10:13 PM  

@44 - She's unconcerned because, in her own words, she's "an avid and confident debater".

Blogger tublecane September 28, 2020 10:25 PM  

"had read his Wikipedia page"

Exemplary research skills on display from the Auditor (whatever that is) of the College Historical Dixie (whatever that is).

I have read three or four Dawkins books, but even if I hadn't I'd definitely know his position on Islam and could probably guess his sex views.

Blogger crescent wrench September 28, 2020 11:12 PM  

“I had read his Wikipedia page and researched him briefly. Regretfully I didn’t look further into him before moving forward with the invitation.”

Looks like it's time for a defamation lawsuit against the wikimedia foundation. British courts don't have NYT v Sullivan.

Blogger Thad Tuiol September 28, 2020 11:22 PM  

Brid O'Donnell, a disgrace to the Irish race and typical of failed Catholicism.

Blogger travvyboy September 29, 2020 12:09 AM  

"we value our members comfort above all else" that is a disturbing statement.

Blogger Doom September 29, 2020 12:14 AM  

Didas Kalos wrote:@Doom. Thou dost indeed protest too much. Making heaven is much better than traditionally going to hell because deceived you are.

I'll... take that bet. I've been over there, I've seen. As a weaker Christian. From what I have seen, I won't risk a permanent death. I know it's real. I didn't make it, not all the way... fire awaited on my path to heaven. I... don't want that ever again. I will die, horribly, before risking hell. Or even purgatory. The fire... to get through... don't go there.

Believe as you will. I know what I have seen.

Blogger NoobishTitan September 29, 2020 12:36 AM  

Amen

Blogger Guy Jean September 29, 2020 12:54 AM  

"we value our members comfort above all else". Others on this thread, too, have pointed this phrase out. That is a remarkable statement. It leaps out at you, doesn't it? If that is indeed their mission statement, haven't they lost the plot? I wonder how many will cancel their membership after reading that?

Blogger Up from the pond September 29, 2020 2:00 AM  

"we value our members comfort above all else"

Don't make the black kids angry.

Blogger Alex September 29, 2020 5:04 AM  

Christianity is the giant of Western Civilization upon which all shorter giants have gazed further into the Heavens. Without this metaphysical foundation, modern science loses its telos to discover and understand the Truth through His creation. What was once empirical is not now abstractly mathematical in untestable theories. Ask a scientist where math comes from, why it's true, and why we should believe it and they'll nihilistically tell you not to think about it, just "Shut up and calculate". Whole fields of epistemology now resting precariously on thin air; like Wile E. Coyote hovering off a cliff as long as he doesn't look down.

Science had become flimsy tautologically nihilistic pursuit: science for science sake; maybe get lucky finding exploits in material reality for material profit. It already has been cracking in favor of the metapolitical power of Scientism. Soon 2+2 will equal 5 and truth, logic, and reason will be considered racist, patriarchal and oppressive.

Blogger RedJack September 29, 2020 7:24 AM  

Midwits resent anything smarter than they are. So to have a beingbthat is omnipotent, that isn't them, is a grave insult.

Blogger Owen Martin September 29, 2020 7:52 AM  

Many young irish women have been raised on diet of Ellen and cnn, some of them more American and progressive then the Americans themselves

Blogger furor kek tonicus ( you can't untuck the Cuck, but the real question is "Why were you trying to touch a Cuck like that?" ) September 29, 2020 8:47 AM  

Silly Vox, Christians can't Science!

and Dicky Dawk will be happy to give back all of the technological advancements made by non-atheists.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaGgpGLxLQw

crap. 12 years ago.

Blogger Didas Kalos September 29, 2020 12:31 PM  

@nack ward. I did not accuse CS of having a different Bible. Many evil cults use the Bible. Half truths are more difficult to deal with than out right lies. CS preaches a different Gospel.

Blogger Valar Addemmis September 29, 2020 1:21 PM  

tublecane wrote:"had read his Wikipedia page"

Exemplary research skills on display from the Auditor (whatever that is) of the College Historical Dixie (whatever that is).

I have read three or four Dawkins books, but even if I hadn't I'd definitely know his position on Islam and could probably guess his sex views.


He's thrown bombs in the atheist and science blogosphere several times by calling Muslim mistreatment of women Muslim mistreatment of women. Although really, he was targeting nonsense like "Elevatorgate" when he wrote "Dear Muslima" as I recall (I used to be really into those spheres, moderating webforums etc).

Of course, him calling Christianity (or any religion that has a concept of hell as I recall) child abuse doesn't merit unpersoning, of course. Just the untrendy opinions.

Blogger PJW Gent September 29, 2020 2:43 PM  

Jack Ward wrote:...Interestingly, even a secular person can make effective Holy prayer work. Its just a lot easier if you believe and accept God and Jesus as saviors.

So you are essentially saying CS is witchcraft...

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 29, 2020 2:53 PM  

Christian Science is bog-standard Babylonian Gnosticism dressed up in both Science! and Christianity. It has no basis in either.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine September 29, 2020 5:35 PM  

"The fire... to get through... don't go there."

The fire is already burning, don't be burned entirely away.

Blogger JovianStorm September 29, 2020 6:57 PM  

This petard's made for hoistin'
And that's just what it'll do
Cause one of these days this petard's gonna hoist you up too....

Good to see Dawkins shooting himself in the foot like Barney Fife isn't going unrewarded.

Blogger Doom September 30, 2020 5:44 AM  

Azure,

The fire is the Holy Ghost. He is always burning, always will. It would be better to be burned all away than to stay outside. If that is the choice, I will take it. I will burn it all. Would you?

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