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Thursday, September 24, 2020

Preparing to fight the Demon State

If the Archbishop is to be believed, the President has not even yet begun his battle against the Demon State:

The presidential elections in November represent an epochal challenge, a biblical challenge, the outcome of which will be decisive not only for the United States of America but for the whole world. It is necessary that all of you Catholics of America are well aware of the role that Providence has deigned to entrust to your President, and that you are aware of the extraordinary battle that He is preparing to fight against the demonic forces of the deep state and against the New World Order. I am at your side with fervent prayer, together with millions of Catholics and with all people of good will throughout the world.

The Deep State is somewhat of a misnomer. A more appropriate appellation is the Demon State, because these people worship, are assisted by, and in some cases are possessed by, literal demons. 

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

- Ephesians 6:12

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93 Comments:

Blogger Kevin September 24, 2020 10:10 AM  

I wish it was Pope Vigano

Blogger thesystemdisconnect September 24, 2020 10:13 AM  

It's good being on the side of inevitable victory, but it's always good to have a reminder that we are called to spiritually fight, not just watch.

Blogger Chicken Tender September 24, 2020 10:15 AM  

'for such a time as this' springs to mind. Esther is one of my favorites from the OT.

Blogger #7139 September 24, 2020 10:17 AM  

The Demon State - it works for me.

Blogger Robert What? September 24, 2020 10:35 AM  

God bless the god emporer in his mission. Too bad he often appoints his enemies to important positions.

Blogger xevious2030 September 24, 2020 10:51 AM  

Prayers. Along with a sword, a bow, and an axe.

Blogger Dole September 24, 2020 11:18 AM  

So, it's the deep state as in "from the depths of the eternal fire". It's quite possible that this is what everyone already at least unconsciously knew to be true, but an archbishop saying it out loud is nonetheless a welcome confirmation.

Blogger SemiSpook37 September 24, 2020 11:18 AM  

So the administrator for the National Shrine of St. Alphonsus Liguori in Baltimore let it be known that he had reached out to President Trump to have him attend Mass on October 7th, commemorating the victory at Lepanto in 1571, and to consecrate the United States to the Immaculate Heart of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

Yes, I know the parish is now under the auspices of the FSSP. However, given the relative ease with which the Archdiocesan hierarchy can be pushed over (the regional primary school near Ft. Meade is currently dealing with a student that doesn't know what the hell it is, and the Archdiocese is unsurprisingly silent, go figure), this is a huge step by the parish leadership. Inspired me to get off my ass and sign my family up as members. Any tithing goes straight to the parish and/or the FSSP itself.

Blogger Rick September 24, 2020 11:26 AM  

This is the blind spot the atheists have.And their vulnerability.
Jesus certainly believed in demons, Satan, and possession.
I’m not a fan of this “we live in a simulation” talk which is getting pretty popular lately. Scott Adams thinks it’s funny cause he acts like he thought it up. He loves his ideas. Refers to it all the time. But I see others pick it up too and I think they literally subscribe to it like the matrix or something. This isn’t a game. It shouldn’t be taken lightly. Your “The Ticket” is a better analogy and more useful. Thinking our reality is a simulation isn’t helpful at all.
Non-religious and semi religious (churchians included) and atheists will use the word evil as it’s just a very extreme version of “bad”.
I don’t thing Aquinas thought of it that way at all, nor did Jesus.

Blogger Damelon Brinn September 24, 2020 11:31 AM  

"the outcome of which will be decisive not only for the United States of America but for the whole world"

When I tell people Covidmania is largely about hurting Trump's reelection chances, they will say, "But then why are other countries doing it too?" and I have to laugh. As if other countries and especially their governments don't have an interest in who is elected president of the US Empire.

Blogger Viking September 24, 2020 11:31 AM  

Vigano is one of the good ones. Remember that he outed Francis as knowing about and at least tolerating the abuses of Cardinal McCarrick. Of course he lost his position as the Apostolic Nuncio to the US and even went into hiding for a while.

Be sure to pray for the Archbishop regardless if you agree with him on the details or not. He is on the right side of fighting the good fight.

Blogger Guitar Man September 24, 2020 11:32 AM  

Interesting. Their website is down right now.

Blogger [Redacted] September 24, 2020 11:33 AM  

Did the "D.C." in "Washington, D.C." always stand for "Demon City"?

Blogger RadixMalorum September 24, 2020 11:50 AM  

Trump is the most moral major figure in politics. With how much digging they do on his past and every nook and cranny of his actions he has to be practically a saint to have survived to this point. Maybe one day they will literally make him a saint once there's a good inquisition or two in the Vatican.

Blogger Shimshon September 24, 2020 11:51 AM  

The Most Importantest Election Evah actually rings true this time around. Who woulda thunk it?!

Blogger Jeroth September 24, 2020 11:55 AM  

If this is true, he cannot give up power no matter what the "result" of the election is. All this "Red Mirage" propaganda is an obvious signal that these people are determined to steal it by any means necessary.

Blogger The Masked Menace September 24, 2020 11:59 AM  

It's time to put our differences aside. It's time to unite the clans.

Blogger CarpeOro September 24, 2020 12:00 PM  

Scrolling down the link there is a Swiss bishop pushing for female priests. The archbishop has his work cut out inside the church.

Blogger Shimshon September 24, 2020 12:05 PM  

"If this is true, he cannot give up power no matter what the "result" of the election is."

He certainly can't. He must know that if he relinquishes power, he and all his genetic descendants, as well those closely connected to him in any way (like ex-wives) are all marked men and women. It's that simple. He's the only credible threat they have faced in who knows how long. The actual serious attempts against his life must be far more numerous than few we know about.

Blogger allyn71 September 24, 2020 12:21 PM  

Appears that the entire lifesitenews.com is down now. Over the target?

Blogger ZhukovG September 24, 2020 12:24 PM  

@Jeroth and Shimshon: I believe we are truly entering the 'End Game'. Come November, either the Nationalists or the 'Globalists' are going to realize they cannot win by the 'Ballot Box' and will reach for the 'Ammo Box'.

Ad Victoriam, Deo Vindice, Ave Caesar Trump!

Blogger Akulkis September 24, 2020 12:32 PM  

@Robert What?

"Too bad he often appoints his enemies to important positions."

Too bad you haven't figured out that it is required for 2 reasons
1) Career middle-manager bureaucrats can't be fired. Those promoted into the executive ranks can be.

2) The key is to publicly expose them as enemies of the people -- difficult if even possible to do if they aren't given high enough decision-making authority because middle managers don't make nation-wide policies, executives do.

Merely not putting them in positions of sufficient power to abuse the American people would allow them to carry on as if they were loyal to you and the nation. Giving them the power to abuse, allows one and all to see that they are traitors who can never be trusted again.

that is how you drain the swamp. Permanently.

Blogger Jose Miguel September 24, 2020 12:52 PM  

Need to make sure I never forget to pray thrice daily for God's champions.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 24, 2020 1:06 PM  

Vigano is Lot in Sodom. I am not sure God will find even one other righteous man in the Vatican City. Please pray for him, if the fate of a billion Catholics means anything to you.

Blogger Seeingsights September 24, 2020 1:17 PM  

@ RadixMalorum

Just today CNN is touting some lawsuit against the god-emperor from his niece. The niece of the god-emperor is the daughter of the god emperor’s deceased brother. The niece is suing over the inheritance.
I haven’t seen the will but I’m highly skeptical of the merits of the lawsuit. The god emperor’s brother was of sound mind and if he wanted the god emperor to inherit something per the will, well that’s too bad for the niece.
Also telling about the merits of the suit is that it’s being touted by CNN. CNN touted that creepy porn lawyer yet it ended in disaster for him. Also CNN recently settled a defamation suit against Sandmann.
I wouldn’t take legal advice from CNN.

Blogger VD September 24, 2020 1:19 PM  

Over the target?

It's just a temporary traffic overload. This occasionally happens when I link to something.

Blogger Elijah September 24, 2020 1:19 PM  

the balkanization of America has already begun. so called conservatives have long said if the time comes we will bring out our guns and fight back. however if you do bring out guns, in certain states, you will be destroyed by the governmant and by the demons in blm and anitfa.

all three times, recently, when a patriot fought back, the local government along with the media and blm/anitfa attempted to destroy the patriot. saint kyle is going to be tried, the mckloskeys are charged and the poor guy who shot a blm while being choked to death was indicted and committed suicide.

patriots need to either actually form militias in these states or move to better states to prepare for the actual conflict.

Blogger Dan in Georgia September 24, 2020 1:38 PM  

Seeingsights
Pretty sure it has to do with Fred Trump Sr's will. Fred Jr spent almost no time working for the Trump Organization, so his heirs got a much smaller portion of the estate. They were getting free health insurance from the family along with a stipend. Fred Jr's kids wanted more so they sued the family. After they lost the suit, the family cut them off entirely. It was Donald Trump, Robert, Elizabeth, and Maryanne that all agreed to stop supporting Fred Jr's kids. They're probably trying to get something from Robert Trump's portion of the Trump Organization, since he just died recently.

Blogger Dan in Georgia September 24, 2020 1:42 PM  

I've heard there have been at least 25 attempts on President Trump alone, along with several attempts on family members. I'd expect Ivana and Marla Mapes to be among those that are under Secret Service protection, along with all the kids and grandkids.

Blogger ThatWouldBeTelling September 24, 2020 1:48 PM  

@22 Akulkis:

@Robert What?

"Too bad he often appoints his enemies to important positions."

Too bad you haven't figured out that it is required for 2 reasons....


There's another big one: many positions require security clearances. After Trump was elected, the Deep State went so far as to preemptively cancel the clearances of at least one person he was likely to tap for such a position. There's also a lot of infighting, the now marked for execution Michael Anton of the 2016 "The Flight 93 Election" essay fame, and now "The Coming Coup?" resigned his post in the National Security Council the day before Bolton became its head.

Blogger Miles Plastic September 24, 2020 1:57 PM  

The endless litigation by these lunatics definitely has something demonic about it. It's all done out of malice and hate pure and simple.

Blogger Jack Amok September 24, 2020 2:00 PM  

Did the "D.C." in "Washington, D.C." always stand for "Demon City"?

It used to stand for "District of Corruption" but then it got big enough to be called a city.

Blogger CJ September 24, 2020 2:05 PM  

Trump is the most moral major figure in politics. With how much digging they do on his past and every nook and cranny of his actions he has to be practically a saint to have survived to this point.

Couldn't agree more. And you know that if they actually had anything on him, it would be out there already.

Back during the 2016 campaign, I was expecting Hillary's operation to parade a series of victims of Trump's business practices, as in "Trump ripped me off" on a contract or "Trump never paid me" for agreed-upon work. There was one NYC architect unhappy about some hotel renovation, and that was it. Amazing really.

Blogger Brett baker September 24, 2020 2:06 PM  

If there are riots after the reelection of GEOTUS, will Vigano tell the loyal troops "DEUS VOLT!" before battle?

Blogger CarpeOro September 24, 2020 2:56 PM  

@Snidely Whiplash

I pray for all of the faithful as we are all called to fight the good fight where we are, be they Catholic, Protestant, or Orthodox.

Blogger Macs September 24, 2020 3:21 PM  

It's pretty crazy when a guy like Trump is carrying the moral load of the nation! Truly the Lord's ways are mysterious (also hilarious).

Blogger Silent Draco September 24, 2020 3:25 PM  

Bret baker, hopefully he gives general absolution and his blessing first.

Blogger Colonel Blimp September 24, 2020 3:41 PM  

Cardinal Sarah would be far more effective.

Blogger Grooveware September 24, 2020 4:39 PM  

The more the Demon State tries to out wit President Trump, or the multiple attempts on his life, the more obvious it appears he has God on his side.

Blogger Damelon Brinn September 24, 2020 5:13 PM  

Back during the 2016 campaign, I was expecting Hillary's operation to parade a series of victims of Trump's business practices

They should have. Lies about that would have been much more believable than "13 women claim he assaulted them. Wait it's 16. Now it's 20. But we still don't have one to come forward." Trump, whatever his faults, just isn't that guy, and people can sense it. A rich guy ripping people off, on the other hand, is kind of the default assumption anyway.

Blogger dienw September 24, 2020 5:47 PM  

to consecrate the United States to the Immaculate Heart of the Blessed Virgin Mary.
No. In the name Joshua the Christ, No!
This nation, the people who founded this nation were Protestants; people of the book, not Babylon; we Protestants via the Reformation were set free to worship Joshua, not some damned Queen of Heaven, not Isis, Horus, or Seb(IHS). We who know our history know damn well if Rome establishes itself as master of this nation the entire bloody history of Roman Babylon will be repeated.

Blogger DourCdn September 24, 2020 5:59 PM  

Because people don't learn history, they are astounded that intrigue is a possibility. In fact they dont even have to study history, they could read fiction like Dune, but even absorbing that is beyond most people these days

Blogger Crush Limbraw September 24, 2020 6:12 PM  

DaDeepDemonState

Blogger Ominous Cowherd September 24, 2020 6:19 PM  

SemiSpook37 wrote:... to consecrate the United States to the Immaculate Heart of the Blessed Virgin Mary.
Dude, we are Christians, and we want no part of your goddess cult.

Blogger liberranter September 24, 2020 6:58 PM  

Did the "D.C." in "Washington, D.C." always stand for "Demon City"?

I always thought it meant "Damnation Central."

Blogger Shane Bradman September 24, 2020 7:15 PM  

Trump is more Catholic than the Pope. He has the favour of Catholics, even though the fake Catholics are pretending he doesn't.

Blogger Shane Bradman September 24, 2020 7:19 PM  

The Protestant resentment of the Blessed Virgin Mary is a constant weak point. The complete refusal of some to accept the Saints, instead in favour of Pastor Bill, will remain as an ongoing failure. Vox is not a Catholic, but he recognises the brilliance of St Thomas Aquinas as a theologian. I think Protestants are on the right track with how they approach St Augustine. More reverence for Holy men, not less.

Blogger B September 24, 2020 7:36 PM  

Note to Ominous Cowherd who wrote: Dude, we are Christians, and we want no part of your goddess cult.

Roman Catholic veneration for the mother of Jesus Christ is not a "goddess cult." Jesus Christ would not diss your mother. Why are you dissing his?

For the record: Catholics only worship one God in three persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Blogger Bucephalus September 24, 2020 7:44 PM  

Some of these leftists, when you freeze the monitor or screen, actually look like the demons in the Devils Advocate.

Blogger MidnightSun September 24, 2020 8:03 PM  

Only an idiot would condemn the Blessed Virgin Mary Mother of God. Of all blasphemies this is by far the worst and not I but God the Father will condemn you to hell for all eternity.

Blogger The Masked Menace September 24, 2020 8:11 PM  

"I will not serve." - Lucifer, Star of the Morning, Angel of Light

"Behold the handmaid of the Lord: be it done to me according to thy word." - Mary of Nazareth, Mother of Jesus


The once so beautiful and high angel outdone by a fourteen year-old girl.


You insult the Mother of Jesus and ridicule and mock us for honoring her. You'd be wise to ponder the source of your disdain. You will tremble with fear when you learn from where it originates.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd September 24, 2020 8:26 PM  

B, I know that's the official line. That's not the way Semispook worded it.

Blogger tdcommenter September 24, 2020 8:43 PM  

Some of them aren't even hiding it anymore: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/rbg-mom-joins-satanic-temple_n_5f6b3565c5b629afbe990c15

As a non-Christian (Confucian-Buddhist), understanding people as satanic is still illuminating. It makes sense why they are decapitating statues, burning bibles, and attacking churchgoers recently in Troy, NY. They are rebelling against Christianity and the Western Civilization that descends from Christianity.

Blogger VFM #7634 September 24, 2020 11:43 PM  

Too bad you haven't figured out that it is required for 2 reasons
1) Career middle-manager bureaucrats can't be fired. Those promoted into the executive ranks can be.

2) The key is to publicly expose them as enemies of the people -- difficult if even possible to do if they aren't given high enough decision-making authority because middle managers don't make nation-wide policies, executives do.


Promoveatur ut amoveatur, distilled.

It really does looks to me as if Trump got rid of a lot of Deep State swamp critters by putting them in his cabinet, then firing them.

Blogger cyrus83 September 25, 2020 12:37 AM  

I remain amazed that a bishop who spent his career in the Vatican diplomatic service is able to speak in this manner, the laity has largely not heard bishops speak this way in decades.

Stop worrying about the Virgin Mary. She has been invoked throughout European history, even the Gospel has her saying that all generations will call her blessed. And if you think about it, she is very likely the source for Matt 1:18-2:23 and Luke 1:5-2:51.

Blogger Bezzle September 25, 2020 1:49 AM  

@22. Akulkis September 24, 2020 12:32 PM
The key is to publicly expose them as enemies of the people -- difficult if even possible to do if they aren't given high enough decision-making authority because middle managers don't make nation-wide policies, executives do.

Merely not putting them in positions of sufficient power to abuse the American people would allow them to carry on as if they were loyal to you and the nation. Giving them the power to abuse, allows one and all to see that they are traitors who can never be trusted again....


An excellent example of this would be tranny-lover Mattis, appointed by Trump, and then ordered to dismiss the trannies in the military.

(After twenty-eight years of Deep State Bush/Clinton/Obama, the US military was so corrupt that, for any expectation of loyalty, Team Trump had to create an entirely new branch to be peopled only with vetted real Americans. The Space Forces shamelessly ripping off the Star Fleet logo was the perfect touch to trample flat delicate commie amygdalas.)

It really does looks to me as if Trump got rid of a lot of Deep State swamp critters by putting them in his cabinet, then firing them.

It also disrupts whatever function they were previously providing to the Deep State, as well as subjecting them to greater surveillance.

Blogger Vaughan Williams September 25, 2020 2:38 AM  

@48 B, many Catholics worship God in four persons: Father, Son, Holy Ghost, and Mother Mary, the Queen of Heaven. And all the lesser deities who have been rebranded as "saints". Jesus explicitly said to pray to "Our Father". Why pray to anyone else?

Blogger Vaughan Williams September 25, 2020 2:41 AM  

Augustine, Aquinas, Athanasius, and Chrysostum. Brilliant men of strong faith, who built their theologies on cracked foundations, leading generations after them into sin unknowing. God have mercy on their followers.

Blogger Roozter September 25, 2020 3:22 AM  

Very enlightening & encouraging. Thanks.

Blogger Roozter September 25, 2020 3:23 AM  

Don't forget the armor!

Blogger Shane Bradman September 25, 2020 4:05 AM  

@53. The destruction of statues of Saints is very intentional. Evil has a hard time attacking Jesus Christ and subverting Him because He is so immensely holy, so they go after his disciples and his family first. The saints form a wall around Jesus Christ that the Satanists have to get past before they can commit the ultimate blasphemy, so they slander holy men and women, tear down their statues, make up blatant lies to attack their character, overstate all their flaws and understate all their successes, all so they can set the stage to go after Jesus Christ. It won't end well for them, because opposing God never ends well, but this is what they're doing.

Blogger Avalanche September 25, 2020 7:04 AM  

@46 "Trump is more Catholic than the Pope."

Yeah, but how hard is THAT?!

Blogger Avalanche September 25, 2020 7:16 AM  

@57 " Jesus explicitly said to pray to "Our Father". Why pray to anyone else?"

Funny-odd pattern I noticed back when I taught my own tai chi classes, and also I assisted a friend teaching his classes. In MY classes, students with questions or needing help with something would almost always go to my teaching assistants to ask for help/answers. But in my friend's classes, HIS students would almost always come to me to ask.

"Subordinates" seem not to want to 'bother' the leader/senior-most person. Approaching the assistant and asking for *intercession* with the 'Big Boss' is a combination of "I don't want to bother him; he has more important stuff to deal with than me!" and "My question / request for help is not worthy of disturbing/taking up his time when the less-senior person is available."

The student/subordinate is NOT "worshiping" -- or asking for the final answer -- but instead is trying not to burden the 'Big Boss' with what feels like trivia.

Blogger DroppingBear September 25, 2020 7:17 AM  

Liking based Archbishops! Pray God we receive more.

Blogger VFM #7634 September 25, 2020 7:35 AM  

B, many Catholics worship God in four persons: Father, Son, Holy Ghost, and Mother Mary, the Queen of Heaven.

You clearly know nothing about Catholicism, but instead have a Jack Chick caricature of it in your mind and have convinced yourself it's accurate. Harden your heart more, why dontcha. For the thousandth time, we don't worship the Blessed Virgin Mary. When you praise or ask a favor of another human being, like your mom and dad growing up, are you worshipping them? I'd hope not.

And all the lesser deities who have been rebranded as "saints". Jesus explicitly said to pray to "Our Father". Why pray to anyone else?

He never said to pray ONLY to the Father. Does that mean that you have to junk all your prayers to Christ Himself, or to the Holy Ghost?

Blogger SemiSpook37 September 25, 2020 9:54 AM  

@44 @48 @57

Agree with B's point. My wife made a pretty good point about how the BVM operates: a Jewish mother. It's not that we revere her on the same level as the Almighty in the Trinity, as much as most Protestants have pretty much settled their confirmation bias on that, but think about any Jewish mother/son relationship. Most of the guys I know have a pretty tough time saying "No" to their mothers when a favor is asked of them.

Simply put, prayers to the BVM are basically saying, "Hey, could you please ask Jesus to...?"

All the consecration is doing is asking to be put higher on the priority list. That's it.

Blogger The Masked Menace September 25, 2020 9:59 AM  

@58

What a dizzying height of arrogance it must take for man to presuppose to stand above the likes of Augustine, Aquinas, Athanasius, and Chrysostum. He who exalts himself will be humbled. May God have mercy on his soul.

Blogger The Pitchfork Rebel September 25, 2020 1:16 PM  





@57


Did Luther worship Mary?


https://lutheranreformation.org/theology/luthers-love-st-mary-queen-heaven/

Should I not pray to Christ because he because he never said "pray to me"?






Blogger Vaughan Williams September 25, 2020 2:05 PM  

Wasn't that little child arrogant when he said that the emperor had no clothes?

Blogger Ominous Cowherd September 25, 2020 2:20 PM  

Vaughan Williams wrote:@48 B, many Catholics worship God in four persons: Father, Son, Holy Ghost, and Mother Mary, the Queen of Heaven.
That is not what Rome teaches, but it's what some Romans learn.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd September 25, 2020 2:34 PM  

VFM #7634 wrote:You clearly know nothing about Catholicism, but instead have a Jack Chick caricature of it in your mind and have convinced yourself it's accurate.
Ol' Jack clearly didn't know Rome, but he clearly knew some Romans.

What Rome teaches isn't always what Romans learn and do, and the Roman insistence upon the traditions of men can camouflage heresy. Sure, most of them aren't heretics, but those traditions are good cover for those who really are worshiping the queen of heaven. A proper reverence for the sinner chosen to be Jesus' mother is going to look a lot like that heretical worship of that queen of heaven who Jesus is bound to obey because that's his mommy and he's a mommy's boy.

Blogger IreneAthena September 25, 2020 2:44 PM  

Ron Paul is in hospital and could use the prayers on his behalf to your intermediary of choice.
http://news.infogalactic.com/

Blogger Valar Addemmis September 25, 2020 5:06 PM  

Shane Bradman wrote:@53. The destruction of statues of Saints is very intentional. Evil has a hard time attacking Jesus Christ and subverting Him because He is so immensely holy, so they go after his disciples and his family first. The saints form a wall around Jesus Christ that the Satanists have to get past before they can commit the ultimate blasphemy, so they slander holy men and women, tear down their statues, make up blatant lies to attack their character, overstate all their flaws and understate all their successes, all so they can set the stage to go after Jesus Christ.

Absurd. A statue is a statue. Standing statues of Saints do not protect statues of Jesus. This sort of twaddle is why Protestants tend to think of Catholics as idolaters. And your protective ring of Saint statues doesn't work the way you seem to think. See, for instance:

https://www.fox5ny.com/news/florida-churchs-statue-of-jesus-beheaded-similar-attacks-occur-across-u-s

The Masked Menace wrote:@58

What a dizzying height of arrogance it must take for man to presuppose to stand above the likes of Augustine, Aquinas, Athanasius, and Chrysostum. He who exalts himself will be humbled. May God have mercy on his soul.


They're presuming, not presupposing. Spend less time looking up words and more time working on the process of using them properly. Consider further that you're exalting yourself by exalting those who you consider to be on your team and speak for you. May want to repent.

Blogger The Masked Menace September 25, 2020 6:33 PM  

@57

We venerate Mary. We profoundly honor and respectfully admire her. She is the Mother of our Lord. She was the means of His incarnation. She smiled with tenderness upon Him when she held Him in her arms when He was a child and she wept in sorrow when beheld Him upon the cross when He was crucified. Evil enters Eden through Eve's disobedience and salvation enters this miserable misbegotten world through Mary's obedience. The forbidden fruit that brought us death is overcome by the fruit of her womb that brings us Life.

Blogger Vaughan Williams September 25, 2020 6:51 PM  

@74 those are very nice sentiments, laudable even, but veneration is the same as worship, in my area of the English speaking world. And when you say the rosary and hail Mary, how is that different from an act of worship, a worship that should only be directed toward God the Father? The word venerate itself is etymologically related to the Latin word for Venus; a connection that seems unseemly for the Lord's mother.

I spoke to a Russian archbishop; he gave me his book where he explains why bowing down to icons is not actually idolatry. He was well spoken and intelligent, but at the end of the day it boiled down to "because we say so".

Blogger Ominous Cowherd September 25, 2020 7:15 PM  

@74 masked menace, remembering and honoring the memory of God's favorites is appropriate. Maybe if you all didn't couch that in terms suggesting idolatry, outsiders wouldn't see it as idolatry.

Blogger Vaughan Williams September 25, 2020 7:15 PM  

@63 thank you for the explanation. As psychology, it is understandable. As theology, it isn't acceptable. Praying to saints and God's mother shows lack of faith. If you feel you have to sneak around to get God to do what you want, that is manipulative and also disrespectful to the Almighty. Cyrano de Bergerac is a good play, but is not any way to interact with God.

Blogger MidnightSun September 25, 2020 7:59 PM  

The Blessed Virgin Mother is to be adored, not worshiped. She is after all the Mother of God. Does anyone seriously believe that God the Father would have a soiled vessel deliver His Son? Be careful blasphemers.











Blogger Vaughan Williams September 25, 2020 8:57 PM  

When the language and ritual surrounding the "adoration" of Mary coincides so neatly with the worship of Hera, Diana, and Artemis, and when such is not found in Scripture, there needs to be powerful reasons. This Mary worship is promulgated by eunuch priests, yet another characteristic of Diana/Artemis worship. Admittedly, after the Church Father Origen, the priests no longer castrate themselves, but their style of life and morality effectively makes them such. The eternal virginity? Also Diana/Artemis. Not found in Scripture.

Blogger Oswald September 25, 2020 11:27 PM  

Always go back to the scriptures if in doubt on any point. Go and just read the passages involving Mary. Then you will realize how few of them there. Any catholic that does this will realize just how small a part she plays in the scriptures compared to Christ. A very important part, but still a small part, and not the most important.

Why you are at it, go look at the passages involving Peter. Again a very small part compared to the passages about Christ.

It is catholic tradition that inflates the parts of minor players and therefore diminishes the part of Christ. Anything that reduces Christ cannot be correct.

While a catholic is praying to Mary, and supposedly not worshipping her, he certainly cannot claim to be worshipping Christ. While he is adoring Mary, he cannot be claiming to adore Christ. Are you honoring Christ by honoring someone else other than him. I think not. He is honored because he died for our sins and was raised from the dead. Mary did not die for our sins, and has not yet been raised from the dead. Therefore, the Catholic's prayers to Mary actually diminish Christ. Mary was only human, she cannot really hear all those prayers to her, and she cannot intercede for anyone praying to her. The bible says we have Christ to intercede for us. We do not need anyone else.

Blogger cyrus83 September 26, 2020 12:03 AM  

@77 Is it lack of faith to ask other Christians to pray for you? If you ever ask anyone to pray for you on earth, why would you not ask those in heaven? Remember, everybody in heaven is both a Christian and a certain friend of Jesus, having received the reward for their faith.

Blogger Vaughan Williams September 26, 2020 1:29 AM  

@81 But are they alive and in heaven, and if so, listening to you personally? I know the church teaches that they are, but I don't see that in the Bible. Why beat around the bush when the veil of separation was rent in two, and we have access to the Father directly? Comment @80 has it exactly right.

Blogger Karen took the Kids September 26, 2020 4:39 AM  

At least there's some Christians left in the Catholic organisation.

Blogger MidnightSun September 26, 2020 8:22 PM  

You know Mr Vaughn Williams many things in Christianity are espoused to make ignorant people like you think. Our adoration for the Blessed Mother teaches us to respect women and hold them in the most highest regard. Just as the infant Jesus also teaches not to abort our babies.
As to why we pray to Saints: Each saint is unique and has certain super natural qualities of which we as humans can relate to. There are male saints and female saints. Many saints have been martyred for their faith. They are there for us as a reminder of virtue, holiness, and courage which we can relate to in our everyday living. These are friends of Jesus. They are not there to take away from his reverence but to enhance it.

Blogger The Pitchfork Rebel September 26, 2020 11:29 PM  

@80.

You can't be serious. Mary was present at just about every major event in Christ's life, as you would expect a Mother to be. Significance isn't measured by a word count. Christ performed his first miracle at her behest; and she simply said "do whatever he tells you to do".

I no more worship Mary when I ask her to pray for me than I do the Mary I call "Mom". I know Mom is no god, but she might be a saint for putting up with me.

The Hail Mary starts with Luke's account of Gabriel's and Elizabeth's Greeting; and concludes with "pray for us sinners; now and at the hour of our death". Not "we pray to you", but pray for us. In all candor, we don't need you to tell us what we are thinking.

@82

So you just skipped over Luke 16:19-31? Or do you think that Christ made up a story about Abraham and the rich man, attributing consciousness and awareness to them for dramatic effect?

If you stubbornly refuse to admit that Redemption was in a way a mirror image of the fall, you see Mary as insignificant. But Eve was central to the fall. It was her grasping at divinity that began the fall. Adam of course completed the act, but it began with the woman's rebellion.

Mary, on the other hand, did not grasp at divinity. Instead of giving the man death; she gave him life.

Based on other comments I see on here about feminine rebellion; perhaps some of you Mariophobes might consider that a little Marian devotion by modern women might restore a little order to your house and to society in general.

I'm still waiting for an answer to my question was Luther an idolater because of his devotion?

Blogger Vaughan Williams September 27, 2020 5:04 AM  

@85 So you just skipped over Luke 16:19-31? Or do you think that Christ made up a story about Abraham and the rich man, attributing consciousness and awareness to them for dramatic effect?

So glad you brought Luke 16 up. Yes, he was telling a parable, to make a moral point. And in verse 31, he tells you the point:

Luke 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

The Catholic "saints" I condemned earlier are characterised by their hearing not Moses and the prophets, but rather guiding people away from them. Augustine, Athanasius, Aquinas, and Chrysostum.

If you stubbornly refuse to admit that Redemption was in a way a mirror image of the fall,

That is a straw man. Noone said that.

you see Mary as insignificant.

Noone said this either.

But Eve was central to the fall. It was her grasping at divinity that began the fall. Adam of course completed the act, but it began with the woman's rebellion.

This is false. Eve was deceived, but Adam was not. It was Adam's rebellion that was central to the fall. 1 Timothy 2:14

Based on other comments I see on here about feminine rebellion; perhaps some of you Mariophobes might consider that a little Marian devotion by modern women might restore a little order to your house and to society in general.

I haven't seen any Mariophobes on here. Noone is afraid of Mary, nor does anyone hate her. We just don't adore, worship, or pray to her. Adoration is a form of worship. The prophet Jeremiah (one of the prophets that Jesus spoke of in Luke 16, that Augustine, Athanasius, Aquinas, and Chrysostum lead people away from) said this about this devotion to the Queen of Heaven:

Jeremiah 44 25 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, saying; Ye and your wives have both spoken with your mouths, and fulfilled with your hand, saying, We will surely perform our vows that we have vowed, to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her: ye will surely accomplish your vows, and surely perform your vows. 26 Therefore hear ye the word of the LORD, all Judah that dwell in the land of Egypt; Behold, I have sworn by my great name, saith the LORD, that my name shall no more be named in the mouth of any man of Judah in all the land of Egypt, saying, The Lord GOD liveth. 27 Behold, I will watch over them for evil, and not for good: and all the men of Judah that are in the land of Egypt shall be consumed by the sword and by the famine, until there be an end of them.

I'm still waiting for an answer to my question was Luther an idolater because of his devotion?

Don't know, don't care. Luther, like Karl Marx, Jordan Peterson, and E Michael Jones was a Manchurian candidate sent to redirect, misdirect, and geld a corrective reform movement. That doesn't mean Protestants are wrong. Just as Jordan Peterson killed the Alt-Right, E Michael Jones has mostly defused the Alt-Christianity that was taking shape.

Blogger Vaughan Williams September 27, 2020 5:05 AM  

@84 Our adoration for the Blessed Mother teaches us to respect women and hold them in the most highest regard.

Moses and the prophets should teach you such respect, not idolatrous worship of a holy woman who is sleeping in the grave until Resurrection day. But then, your "saints" Augustine, Athanasius, Aquinas and Chrysostum have been leading you away from Moses and the prophets for many years now.

Just as the infant Jesus also teaches not to abort our babies.

Perhaps a priest uses the infant Jesus as the basis of a sermon, but infant Jesus taught us no such thing. Rather, it is Psalm 127:3 that teaches children are a gift from God. If you read Moses and the prophets you don't have to invent things. When you make up stories to justify your beliefs, how are you different from any Rabbi trained in the Talmud?

They are there for us as a reminder of virtue, holiness, and courage which we can relate to in our everyday living. These are friends of Jesus. They are not there to take away from his reverence but to enhance it.

You don't need to pray to holy men sleeping in the grave to be reminded of virtue, holiness, and courage.

Speaking to the dead is necromancy, something forbidden by Moses and the prophets.

Blogger The Pitchfork Rebel September 27, 2020 1:50 PM  

@87

So, you are observing Moses' dietary laws?






Blogger The Pitchfork Rebel September 27, 2020 2:00 PM  

@86



"So glad you brought Luke 16 up. Yes, he was telling a parable, to make a moral point. And in verse 31, he tells you the point:"

A parable isn't a fantasy. But I'm glad that you revealed you think Christ instructed people with tall tales that depicted an impossibility. If he tells me that part of the horrors of hell is conscious regret and the awareness of others' path to perdition, I'm taking Him at his word.

You, I take with laughter.



Blogger MidnightSun September 27, 2020 4:06 PM  

Being brought up Catholic we are taught not to hate the Protestant. But you people have such a visceral hate for Catholic dogma I can't help but believe that you are more closely tied to Judaism than Christianity.

Blogger Submitted2Christ September 27, 2020 6:09 PM  

Demon State.....nailed it

Blogger MrNiceguy September 27, 2020 8:34 PM  

If Catholics don't want to be accused of worshipping Mary, it would be wise to avoid throwing around accusations of blasphemy the next time this argument arises. One can only blaspheme that which is worshipped.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd September 29, 2020 1:06 PM  

cyrus83 wrote:If you ever ask anyone to pray for you on earth, why would you not ask those in heaven?
Do you imagine that prayer changes or informs the Eternal, Unchanging, Omniscient God?

People who imagine that God is too lazy or too ignorant to act unless we get some more powerful, more connected intermediary to intercede, to inform Him and get Him to shift His lazy ass, are totally ignorant of the nature of God.

We pray because prayer changes us, and because God tells us to do it. Those who are in Heaven have no need to pray, so far as we know: they should be fully involved in worship.

God loves hierarchy, and for the saved, the hierarchy is the Holy Trinity at the top, then you below, with the messengers off to the side somewhere. God tore the Temple veil when the Crucifixion was complete. He opened His sanctuary so we could come in. If you are saved, you are to boldly approach His throne. Praying directly to God is not an option, it's your duty.

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