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Monday, March 18, 2013

It can happen in the USA

That doesn't mean it will happen, of course.  Due to the different structure wealth is stored in various countries, and the fact that the banks require balance-sheet assets rather than cash to cover their debts, I expect US pension funds and stock markets will be tapped before bank deposits are stolen.

However, MF Global has already demonstrated that legally speaking, in the USA, money on deposit is not your own, but rather, belongs to the custodial corporation to use as it sees fit, including as collateral for loans to the custodian.  "The settled position of the law is that when you deposit, the bank becomes the owner of the money deposited and you become a creditor to the bank."  It's not your money, you're just loaning the money to the bank, which may or may not pay you back, just like anyone else to whom you loan money.  It's also worth noting that the FDIC cannot and will not provide protection against this sort of government seizure.  From one of Karl's readers:
"One of my prep school classmates is one of the head lawyers of the FDIC. I called him tonight and he was completely briefed and aware of the Cyprus situation. When I mentioned the ticker to him, he laughed because he said the FDIC, FSLIC and SIPC have no jurisdiction nor provide any protection against taxes or fees, which Gen kind of implied. A bank run, of course is a different story, but the government can tax you to death and the FDIC, FSLIC and SIPC will just stand by and watch. They also will not cover you for a seizure that is related to a crime, like fraud, terrorism or narcotics violations."
In other words, you've been warned.  If you're still leaving more in the financial system than the bare minimum you need in order to keep your personal finances flowing, you should be aware that you are taking a distinctly non-zero risk.

It is becoming increasingly clear that Cyprus is a test case.  If the bank heist passes the Cypriot parliament and does not spark bank runs throughout Europe as a result, we will almost certainly see more heists take place.  Italy is most likely next, although Spain and Ireland would also be reasonable candidates, because the EU is aware it will have to act there before Beppe Grillo and his grillini win a majority in the next election and are in a position to prevent them from doing so.  Keep in mind the poll mentioned below was conducted before the recent events in Cyprus.

"A new poll shows surging support for Grillo. The election only added to his momentum, and he's now at 30 percent. Almost as worrisome for Europe: Berlusconi's PDL has also gained since the election."

Nor is there any mistaking how Grillo's MoVimento 5 Stelle is looking at the Cyprus situation: "Signori brutte notizie da Cipro. Il Fondo Monetario con la complicità dell'UE prenderà coattamente il 10% da ogni conto corrente bancario. Dovrebbe essere una notizia da prima pagina su ogni quotidiano e invece non mi sembra di averla vista, potrei sbagliarmi comunque. Siamo davvero sicuri che questa è l'Europa che vogliamo? Gente che vive a migliaia di chilometri di distanza e che prende decisioni così importanti senza interpellare i cittadini."

"Gentlemen, terrible news out of Cyprus.  The IMF, with the complicity of the EU, will forcibly take 10 percent from every bank account.  This should be front page news on every newspaper and instead, although I could be mistaken, I haven't seen it anywhere.  Are we really certain that this is the Europe we want?  People living thousands of kilometers away making decisions this important without consulting the citizens?"

The neocons at the American Spectator and other places are screaming that Grillo is a fascist.  They're not entirely wrong, but what they conveniently leave out of the equation is that the EU is fascist as well.  The only difference is that the EU is a form of international fascism that runs interference for the global banks, (as seen in Cyprus), whereas MoVimento 5 Stelle is an Italian nationalist movement, and as such, is vastly preferable to the EU and its globalist masters.

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70 Comments:

Anonymous Bob Ramar March 18, 2013 6:56 AM  

Vox: So, where do you suggest we keep our money, investments, etc. And don't say 'gold' because physical possession of actual hard assets involves cost and risk all it's own which most investors cannot handle.

Anonymous VD March 18, 2013 7:03 AM  

That's a stupid qualifier, Bob. You have a choice. Physical possession that involves cost and risk or custodial possession that involves cost and risks.

At this point, the cost and risk of custodial possession appears to have surpassed the cost and risk of physical possession. It doesn't have to be gold, but it does have to be something that isn't stolen with the push of a button in New York City.

Don't be the soft target.

Anonymous Feh March 18, 2013 7:12 AM  

At this point, the cost and risk of custodial possession appears to have surpassed the cost and risk of physical possession.

Maybe. But when the banks go tango uniform and the EBT cards stop getting filled, the mob will come for the stuff you physically possess.

Yeah yeah, I know all the anonymous internet tough guys are going to growl that they'll machine-gun the looters, but get real. You're going to run out of ammo before the mob runs out of bodies.

what they conveniently leave out of the equation is that the EU is fascist as well.

And this is the place you moved to because the US is too tyrannical, or something?

Anonymous Mr. B.A.D. March 18, 2013 7:13 AM  

Beppo Grille.... what a cool sounding name. I'd vote for him. I hope he wins. I hope has a mustache and talks with his hands.

Anonymous VD March 18, 2013 7:29 AM  

But when the banks go tango uniform and the EBT cards stop getting filled, the mob will come for the stuff you physically possess.

So your solution is to make sure it is all stolen first? Do you really think your thoughts on the likely actions of the mob have not occurred to every survivalist, prepper, and even gun buyer in the last five years?

It seems to have escaped you that you don't have to be able to outrun the bear, you only have to be able to outrun the guy next to you.

Anonymous Stillicho March 18, 2013 7:31 AM  

Maybe. But when the banks go tango uniform and the EBT cards stop getting filled, the mob will come for the stuff you physically possess.

Why would you tell them you have it, dumbass?

Yeah yeah, I know all the anonymous internet tough guys are going to growl that they'll machine-gun the looters, but get real. You're going to run out of ammo before the mob runs out of bodies.

Riiigght...'cause mobs bravely take heavy casualties and keep charging all the time. You armchair generals crack me up. Any moment now you'll be recommending a land war in Asia. You ain't got no chili.

Anonymous VD March 18, 2013 7:31 AM  

And this is the place you moved to because the US is too tyrannical, or something?

Who is the USA's Beppe Grillo? And how much support does he have? It's not about today, it's about the prospects for tomorrow.

Anonymous zen0 March 18, 2013 7:37 AM  

Beppe Grillo's Blog

Anonymous zen0 March 18, 2013 7:43 AM  

Who is the USA's Beppe Grillo?

After a brief investigation, it seems that the USA's Beppe Grillo is......

Beppe Grillo!

Grillo Warfare

Anonymous ChelmWiseman March 18, 2013 7:45 AM  

@Stillicho - Any moment now you'll be recommending a land war in Asia.

...or tangling with a Sicilian when death is on the line.

Anonymous scoobius dubious March 18, 2013 8:04 AM  

"Who is the USA's Beppe Grillo?"

Oh that's an easy one. Me.

A vote for Scooby in '16 brings Dionysus in '69! Of course, we'll prolly have to rig up a time machine to deliver on that one, but... 'time machines for all!' will be part of my platform!

Join Team Scooby, before it's too late! We're makin' a list, we're checkin' it twice, we're gonna find out who's naughty or nice (not that we dont' already know)... Scooby Doo is comin' to town, gather round...

Anonymous Porky March 18, 2013 8:08 AM  

You know it's gotten bad when your hoping for some greasy, fascist clown who has yet to discover the miracle of deodorant.

Blogger Nate March 18, 2013 8:08 AM  

"However, MF Global has already demonstrated that legally speaking, in the USA, money on deposit is not your own, but rather, belongs to the custodial corporation to use as it sees fit, including as collateral for loans to the custodian."

Its interesting that Shostak made this exact argument about savings accounts.

Anonymous Raggededge March 18, 2013 8:11 AM  

Yeah yeah, I know all the anonymous internet tough guys are going to growl that they'll machine-gun the looters, but get real. You're going to run out of ammo before the mob runs out of bodies.

Do a little research before making idiotic statements like this. Do a google search on Argentina, for example. Here is a good start

Blogger Nate March 18, 2013 8:16 AM  

"Maybe. But when the banks go tango uniform and the EBT cards stop getting filled, the mob will come for the stuff you physically possess."

No. They won't. They do exactly what they did in New Orleans. Which is sit on their asses and wait for someone to come save them.

There is no question that we will have to be prepared to defend what is ours. However I note that I must first have something to defend. Your solution is apparently paralysis of fear.

Anonymous Salt March 18, 2013 8:17 AM  

in the USA, money on deposit is not your own, but rather, belongs to the custodial corporation to use as it sees fit, including as collateral for loans to the custodian.

Depends. Are the funds deposited into an interest bearing account or non-interest bearing? Interest is what banks pay for its use.

That is my understanding. My account is a demand deposit, non-interest bearing. I pay a custodial fee. Better give me my property when I demand it.

Anonymous TheExpat March 18, 2013 8:21 AM  

Wait- Americans who are not politically acceptable casualties have money in banks?

Anonymous Stilicho March 18, 2013 8:26 AM  

That is my understanding. My account is a demand deposit, non-interest bearing. I pay a custodial fee. Better give me my property when I demand it.

Unless it is spelled out specifically as a bailment, it is legally treated as a loan to the bank regardless of whether it pays interest. Bank goes belly up, you made a bad loan. Of course, the whole lesson of MF Global was that SEGREGATED CUSTOMER ACCOUNTS (i.e. not loans, but earmarked customer money for which MFG was a fiduciary custodian) can and will be treated as belonging to the financial institution when it is convenient for the banks to do so. Savvy?

Blogger Nate March 18, 2013 8:31 AM  

"That is my understanding. My account is a demand deposit, non-interest bearing. I pay a custodial fee. Better give me my property when I demand it."

Salt.. don't be ignorant. ALL DEPOSITORS Salt. And again... how are they going to give you your money when you ask for it... when the banks are all closed when it happens?

They banned online transfers so debit cards don't work. They shutdown or emptied the ATMs beforehand.

So tell us exactly how you are going to go ask for it.

Anonymous redsash March 18, 2013 8:32 AM  

If any governmental, quasi-governmental or non-governmental entity lays claim to the savings that most Americans believe to be insured by their government, this nation won't have one Jesse James to deal with, they will have tens of thousands. If you even look like a banker or government lackey, the chances are you are going to die, and probably most of your family with you.

Anonymous Salt March 18, 2013 8:32 AM  

@Stilicho

What I find so humorous is that the bank is always trying to get me to alter my account to an interest bearing one. I remember when I opened it, the bank officer had to get a different form for me. It wasn't just checking one box over another. She wasn't pleased.

Anonymous drose March 18, 2013 8:32 AM  

Heads up Vox!

http://www.infowars.com/banking-chief-calls-for-15-looting-of-italians-savings/

Blogger Nate March 18, 2013 8:35 AM  

People...

Do you really think Vox has money in an Italian bank?

Anonymous Salt March 18, 2013 8:38 AM  

@Nate

I'm not ignorant of that fact Nate. But my standing is different.

Anonymous drose March 18, 2013 8:39 AM  

No. But I'm sure a lot of other people do. Things will probably get ugly when their money gets stolen.

Blogger Nate March 18, 2013 8:39 AM  

No Salt. No standing... or form... is going to stop them from taking whatever the hell they want.

The people of cyprus were told the same crap.

Anonymous VD March 18, 2013 8:44 AM  

That is my understanding. My account is a demand deposit, non-interest bearing. I pay a custodial fee. Better give me my property when I demand it.

Good luck with that. If it looks like a deposit and quacks like a deposit, it will be treated like a deposit. Recall what happened with regards to safety deposit boxes back in 1933.

Anonymous ChelmWiseman March 18, 2013 9:11 AM  

What I find fascinating about this whole thing is that the supposed point of a bank bailout is to protect depositors... not banks.

Although the story in the media over the last couple of years is that it is to protect "the economy" which isn't really a thing that can be well defined.

By attacking depositors, they are attacking their own justification for the action. You might be able to reasonably argue that losing 10% is better than losing 100% ... and the government is trying to soften the blow by exchanging shares in the bank for the "tax" - which makes it, not a tax, but an investment. A forced investment, in which no one would willing invest.

Since it is going to happen anyway, the Cypriot depositors should demand 100% equity in the bank for their "investment".

Anonymous zen0 March 18, 2013 9:12 AM  

Putin says Russia was not consulted. I thought they had made some deal or other, but apparently not.

I think maybe the deployment of the Russian Navy is preliminary to Russia having "The Talk" with Cyprus.

If the Russian decide to de-capitalize the banks there, I don't think saying the Bank is on Holiday is going to have any calming effect on the murderous, drunken bastards.

Anonymous VryeDenker March 18, 2013 9:14 AM  

Luckily I don't have any savings to speak of. That was sarcasm of course. But I would suggest rather investing your money in things that are tangible and useful. Like a wine collection, good quality tools, non-perishable commodities and so on. The ultimate "diversified portfolio" is the one that is full of physical property in your possession. Even a car can be a good investment if you use it right. I know a guy who has a nice looking Mercedes S-class who rents himself and the car out for weddings. He makes enough some months to cover the entire installment. Even if he sells the car at market value after a few years, he's still up quite a few bucks because other people paid for it.

Blogger James Dixon March 18, 2013 9:17 AM  

> You're going to run out of ammo before the mob runs out of bodies.

Looters don't tend to drive a hundred miles over back roads to get to their loot.

Blogger James Dixon March 18, 2013 9:18 AM  

> No Salt. No standing... or form...

Just ask the Chrysler bond holders.

Anonymous Anonymous March 18, 2013 9:35 AM  

This is America's Beppe Grillo

Blogger Nate March 18, 2013 9:42 AM  

"I think maybe the deployment of the Russian Navy is preliminary to Russia having "The Talk" with Cyprus."

"The Talk" is going to be had with the EU. Not Cyprus.

Anonymous ChelmWiseman March 18, 2013 9:44 AM  

@James Dixon - and the GM bond holders

Anonymous Outlaw X March 18, 2013 9:44 AM  

Last year I tried to pull 9000 dolars cash from the bank. They didn,t have it had to wait a few days to get it. Also this week had a major silver broker call me and ask if I still had it in my possesion. I told them no which is true it is not at the house.

Anonymous JartStar March 18, 2013 9:56 AM  

What does one do with a million+ dollars cash, or even just a couple of hundred thousand? Storage is a huge PITA.

Anonymous outlaw x March 18, 2013 9:58 AM  

That should trad lasr week Wednrsfay as I remember thought it eas a syrange phone call.

Blogger Nate March 18, 2013 9:58 AM  

"What does one do with a million+ dollars cash, or even just a couple of hundred thousand? Storage is a huge PITA."

The war on drugs has basically made it illegal to even keep that much. You'll be buried in legal hell if you try to do anything with it.

The only option is to convert it to gold or silver a little at a time... or off-shore it.

Blogger James Dixon March 18, 2013 10:05 AM  

> What does one do with a million+ dollars cash, or even just a couple of hundred thousand?

With a million plus, you really need to look at diversifying overseas. Not being in that range, I can't offer any advice.

$100K is only 1K $100 bills. That's not all that much space. A simple fire proof safe bolted to your basement floor should be able to handle it with no problems.

When you can buy small safes at Walmart, you know people have been thinking about this for a while.

Anonymous Anonymous March 18, 2013 10:08 AM  

The only option is to convert it to gold or silver a little at a time... or off-shore it."

I buy silver on a regular basis. Cash only, no questions, very polite transaction. Ammo too, but good luck these days...

Anonymous The other skeptic March 18, 2013 10:09 AM  

I wouldn't worry about Beppe. They know what to do. He will be assassinated by a 6'2" blond, blue-eyed Nazi Christian because is furthers the narrative.

Anonymous JartStar March 18, 2013 10:15 AM  

The only option is to convert it to gold or silver a little at a time... or off-shore it.

That's what I was thinking, the first part anyways. I bet the Russians were happy to have their money offshore until this weekend...

For the US it can't be 10% if they grab it as it's Game Over right then for the entire banking system. They'd have to grab 50%+ to make it worth their while.

Blogger Nate March 18, 2013 10:23 AM  

"That's what I was thinking, the first part anyways. I bet the Russians were happy to have their money offshore until this weekend..."

Where you offshore matters mate. Cyprus was high risk high reward. Rather like offshoring in Singapore. You can make a bunch of money... and you can lose a bunch of money.

There are much safer options.

Anonymous patrick kelly March 18, 2013 11:09 AM  

Go long in ammo, whiskey, printed porn and Ibuprofen. Some lighters, batteries, flashlights, and toilet paper are probably a good idea.

Mobs won't likely start everywhere at once, less likely in places with a history of people standing their ground and using deadly force in self defense. An disorganized panicky crown tends to lose motivation when the bloody bodies of their comrades start dropping around them.

If you live in a vibrant urban area, good luck, but you are my canary in the coal mine, early warning system.

Anonymous zen0 March 18, 2013 11:28 AM  

The president of Cyprus announced that the confiscated money would be matched with shares in banks, guaranteed by future oil and gas revenue. The eastern mediterranean basin has been discovered recently to have large oil and gas fields.

Complications abound.

Blogger Nate March 18, 2013 11:39 AM  

russian banks aquiring shares in oil and gas revenue. Putin's ears are perking up.

Anonymous zen0 March 18, 2013 11:53 AM  

Maybe the whole thing is a money laundering scheme

Anonymous JartStar March 18, 2013 11:55 AM  

If you live in a vibrant urban area, good luck, but you are my canary in the coal mine, early warning system.

Yep. You are fooking insane if you live in a major US city now days and even the suburbs won't be safe if things get bad enough.

Anonymous zen0 March 18, 2013 12:11 PM  

Oil and Gas Bonanza

Anonymous ChelmWiseman March 18, 2013 12:31 PM  

Another random thought: if banks only pay back depositors .90 on the dollar... How is that avoiding default. Isnt that the definition of default?

Anonymous Bob Ramar March 18, 2013 12:44 PM  

Vox: You said "That's a stupid qualifier, Bob. You have a choice. Physical possession that involves cost and risk or custodial possession that involves cost and risks.

At this point, the cost and risk of custodial possession appears to have surpassed the cost and risk of physical possession. It doesn't have to be gold, but it does have to be something that isn't stolen with the push of a button in New York City.

Don't be the soft target."

I am not and do not intend to be. I am what most would consider 'well diversified' and I do own physical gold and silver. I also have significant retirement account savings and investment accounts. So, here is my problem: if I move say my 401-K investments to cash (which I can do with a few key strokes), what then? I can't liquidate the account without moving it to another bank! Then what ... ask for the balance in cash? Then what ... move a pickup truck filled with large bills to ... where? In my town, processing a transaction where you pick up a couple hundred grand in large bills is going to attract a lot of attention. Or, while I can, I move a couple hundred thousand into Krugerrands, Maple Leaves, etc. Ok, now the zombie apocolypse hits and I need a gallon of milk from somewhere. I produce a brand new, shiny, one ounce maple leaf as payment and get ... what ... for change?

I am asking somewhat retorically as I have been thinking about these kinds of things since before you were in diapers. I am also interested to see if you have any ideas along these lines that I have not considered. So far, no. As for being a 'hard' target, I believe I can handle myself and protect my loved ones as needed. The rest I leave up to my Lord and Master, Christ Jesus.

Anonymous Stilicho March 18, 2013 12:46 PM  

Isnt that the definition of default?

If you are speaking English, yes. If you are speaking Eurocrat, no. See, e.g. Greek bondholders' (except for ECB, naturally) haircut.

Anonymous Stilicho March 18, 2013 12:51 PM  

Ok, now the zombie apocolypse hits and I need a gallon of milk from somewhere. I produce a brand new, shiny, one ounce maple leaf as payment and get ... what ... for change?

Use silver (1 oz coins)or even older "junk silver" coins (pre 1964 U.S. dimes and quarters) for smaller amounts. Alternatively, you will always be able to find someone willing to exchange ever increasing amounts of paper currency for that Krugerrand in the above scenario. If barter is more to your liking, ammo works. .22 LR is always useful ("for squirrels an' sich")

Blogger foxmarks March 18, 2013 1:02 PM  

They do exactly what they did in New Orleans. Which is sit on their asses and wait for someone to come save them.

You forget the first 48 hours when all the stores were picked clean. And you miss the continued attempts at looting in Uptown and Algiers.

There will be feral bands that one must discourage, even as the majority wait for help. And imagine those flaccid types losing faith in the daily promises of gov’t rescue. I say they sat semi-quietly in the Superdome because they believed they would be rescued, and they were rescued pretty quickly.

Also remember when using NOLA as an example, the floodwater was a major inhibitor of the mob’s mobility. If the ground was dry, the city may well have been burned to the ground.

Blogger James Dixon March 18, 2013 1:08 PM  

> If the ground was dry, the city may well have been burned to the ground.

There are multitudes of reasons not to live in a city, of which this is only one.

Anonymous Bob Ramar March 18, 2013 1:13 PM  

Stilicho: You said "Use silver (1 oz coins)or even older "junk silver" coins (pre 1964 U.S. dimes and quarters) for smaller amounts. Alternatively, you will always be able to find someone willing to exchange ever increasing amounts of paper currency for that Krugerrand in the above scenario. If barter is more to your liking, ammo works. .22 LR is always useful ("for squirrels an' sich""
Got those too. The problem with using anything like gold and silver coin for transactions in a society where such has been effectively banned for 50 years is that few other people have them. There will be no realistic way to establish a standard with which to conduct a transaction. A person would need a lot of silver coins to work with and again, using them for transactions will attract somebody bad's attention sooner or later.
I think what would most probably occur is the same as Germany, 1931 - 33 during the hyperinflationary stage last gasp of the Weimer republic. Everybody with assets is going to take a haircut. Everybody. And it will be the mostly the same percentage across the board. So if you are wealthy now, you will likely still be wealthy then. The ratio of wealth between you and your neighbor will, in most cases, stay about the same.

Anonymous Gen. Kong March 18, 2013 1:40 PM  

A banksta's gotta do what a banksta's gotta do. There's nothing new in this. The only thing that keeps on being amazing is the refusal of folks who ought to know better to believe it when it's going on right before their eyes.

Anonymous GFC March 18, 2013 5:58 PM  

I think what would most probably occur is the same as Germany, 1931 - 33 during the hyperinflationary stage last gasp of the Weimer republic. Everybody with assets is going to take a haircut. Everybody. And it will be the mostly the same percentage across the board. So if you are wealthy now, you will likely still be wealthy then. The ratio of wealth between you and your neighbor will, in most cases, stay about the same.

I don't agree Bob. Then, it was mismanagement and a terrible economic situation - now, it's all of the above PLUS malevolent entities manipulating the situation for their own gain. People aren't coming out of this more or less the same after an equal across the board haircut - the plan is to ensure that all who lack political connections come out beggars, while the connected end up owning everything.

Anonymous Stilicho March 18, 2013 6:00 PM  

Then you have nothing to worry about Bob.

Anonymous Samson J. March 18, 2013 6:42 PM  

Italy is most likely next

Apologies if you've been asked this, but where's *your* money, Vox?

Blogger Nate March 18, 2013 6:44 PM  

"You forget the first 48 hours when all the stores were picked clean. And you miss the continued attempts at looting in Uptown and Algiers."

Really... you don't say... and how fow did these looters venture to pick these stores clean?

A whole 3 blocks?

Anonymous Lesbian Dorito Night March 18, 2013 7:00 PM  

McRapey wears a gamma rabbit tshirt.

We are going to need more doritos

Anonymous Bob Ramar March 18, 2013 7:44 PM  

GFC: You said "I don't agree Bob. Then, it was mismanagement and a terrible economic situation - now, it's all of the above PLUS malevolent entities manipulating the situation for their own gain. People aren't coming out of this more or less the same after an equal across the board haircut - the plan is to ensure that all who lack political connections come out beggars, while the connected end up owning everything."

GFC, I suggest you get a copy of Shirer's "Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" and read the section about the fall of the Weimer Republic. When you say "the plan" ... that assumes that there is one. What if there isn't one. Suppose that you have a bunch of really smart people who 'think' they possess some modicum of control when, in fact, they don't. They are blundering through the fog, like the rest of us.

I think it was Samuel Clemens who said that "History does not repeat itself, but it sometime rhymes." I think that pretty well describes what is going on right now. Bernanke especially established his academic career by becoming both an expert on the 1030's Great Depression, but by also putting down a marker by saying that 'if I were in charge back then, here is what I would have done instead to rectify the situation.' He is in charge now and he is running his program as stated. It is 'somewhat' working in that he hopes to regenerate a 'wealth effect' to get rich folk spending again and reflate the economy that way. He failed to consider the impact of a couple of thousand relatively poor and very terrified baby boomers retiring every day, increasing each day, and almost all of them are hitting the 'Pay Me' button for Social Security at 62 instead of 65. The actuarial tables are getting upset very dramatically. Bernanke's work has covered the rot so far. So far.... . Even Vox has stated that things have remained relatively stable a lot longer than he thought possible. I am beginning to think that this may go on indefinitely baring an accident or something unexpected, like a run on Italian banks on Wednesday.

Anonymous Bob Ramar March 18, 2013 7:46 PM  

Whoops ... meant to say 1930's. Sorry.

Anonymous civilServant March 18, 2013 8:05 PM  

Looters don't tend to drive a hundred miles over back roads to get to their loot.

One hundred miles? If it all goes down have you any plans for any kind of return at any time? Or will you be your own little Krikkit somewhere in the wilderness?

The problem with using anything like gold and silver coin for transactions in a society where such has been effectively banned for 50 years is that few other people have them. There will be no realistic way to establish a standard with which to conduct a transaction.

You are correct. Very few will have anything that can be used as money. You will have to teach and train and lead them.

Blogger James Dixon March 18, 2013 8:47 PM  

> If it all goes down have you any plans for any kind of return at any time?

Return to what? I'm pretty much exactly where I want to be.

> Or will you be your own little Krikkit somewhere in the wilderness?

One hundred miles from the nearest major city doesn't mean wilderness.

Anonymous civilServant March 18, 2013 9:07 PM  

One hundred miles from the nearest major city doesn't mean wilderness.

Ah. "A hundred miles over back roads" sounds remote. Not at all like "one hundred miles from the nearest major city."

If you are two hours from the nearest major city then you will be visited by a good portion of the "golden horde" itself and later more forcefully by those that survive that horde.

Blogger James Dixon March 18, 2013 9:27 PM  

> "A hundred miles over back roads" sounds remote. Not at all like "one hundred miles from the nearest major city."

Since when are "as the crow flies" and "driving distance" the same thing?

Anonymous Anonymous March 19, 2013 8:09 AM  

"Jim Hodge - Allied Home Mortgage have been attacked by lawyers and the liberal press. A self made man of humble means is working hard to restore the jobs lost by these baseless attacks"

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