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Monday, March 18, 2013

It never stops being funny


The ominous thing is that we're rapidly approaching the point where the Mussolinis and Hitlers of the world are starting to look downright attractive in comparison with the bankers and politicians who are presently ruling through deceit and financial predation.  When I was young, I couldn't understand why people didn't merely support, but practically worshipped such obviously flawed and terrible men.

Now, I think I'd be downright happy to vote for the first politician to run on a policy of sending killer drones after every single banker who has received a post-2007 bonus from a bank that received bailout money.  And I'm a freaking libertarian; imagine how those who support bombing Iraqi children because they hate us for our freedoms are going to react once they finally begin to grasp how badly they've been screwed over by the bankers.  The irony is that a banker-assassination policy would be entirely constitutional according to the current administration; it is very easy to prove that the bankers are much more serious enemies of the state than al Qaeda.  They've certainly done considerably more damage.

UPDATE: "Banks in Cyprus will be shut on Tuesday and Wednesday pending a decision by parliament to approve a levy on bank depositors, a government source told Reuters."

UPDATE II: Zerohedge says the worst case scenario is 15.26 percent on deposits over 100k.  Assuming it passes at all now.

Labels: ,

202 Comments:

1 – 200 of 202 Newer› Newest»
Anonymous stg58/Animal Mother March 18, 2013 9:02 AM  

Second thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.

Anonymous scoobius dubious March 18, 2013 9:06 AM  

US MEDIA: (sotto, under quick subtitles) No Jews were involved in the deliberate sabotage of your economy, history, culture and demographics. Now look over here, at this amusing Youtube video of a cat fighting against a dishwasher. Cats are funny! Laugh when told to.

Blogger Nate March 18, 2013 9:10 AM  

"Second thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers."

Nice.

Anonymous zen0 March 18, 2013 9:14 AM  

The War on Financial Terrorism.

Finally, something to get all neo-con about.

Blogger Nate March 18, 2013 9:15 AM  

What people seem to be missing here... is that to protect its Banks... the EU has declared war on Russia's Banks.

Russia's banks have huge exposure in Cyprus.

Wars start over far... far less.

Anonymous Athor Pel March 18, 2013 9:18 AM  

The thing that I don't get, these bankers are actively trying to bring the system down, destroy currencies, destroy the very thing their power depends on.

What do they hope to pay the mercenaries they will try to hire to protect themselves with? Will they be paying in land by then? Once the truth emerges who will help the bankers then?

Just how many lies can a person stack up and still have the edifice stay standing? I can understand willful denial continually abetted by cultural inertia but once you can't get anything to eat that cultural inertia gets sloughed off pretty damn quick.

Maybe the bankers are to be the sacrifice that energizes the coming societal changes. Maybe the bankers are the useful idiots.

Anonymous RINO March 18, 2013 9:20 AM  

Now, I think I'd be downright happy to vote for the first politician to run on a policy of sending killer drones after every single banker who has received a bonus from a bank that received bailout money of any kind since 2008.

Second thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.

And I'm sure everyone described above would get full due process since you're all good libertarians?

Anonymous Dr. J March 18, 2013 9:23 AM  

And I'm sure everyone described above would get full due process since you're all good libertarians?

You fail to understand the changing dynamics. We're moving past the point in which political philosophy matters. High minded ideals fade quickly when one is concerned about survival.

Anonymous scoobius dubious March 18, 2013 9:26 AM  

"The thing that I don't get, these bankers are actively trying to bring the system down, destroy currencies, destroy the very thing their power depends on."

See under frog/scorpion. Also see under the letter J.


Blogger CostelloM March 18, 2013 9:27 AM  

I get to ride the bomb named "Hi there!" Called it!!!

Blogger Angry White Male March 18, 2013 9:28 AM  

And I'm sure everyone described above would get full due process since you're all good libertarians? - Rino

Well actually Rino...no. These characters have been determined to be legitical terrorists and will get the same consideration afforded all other terrorists.

Anonymous RINO March 18, 2013 9:31 AM  

Well actually Rino...no. These characters have been determined to be legitical terrorists and will get the same consideration afforded all other terrorists.

Rand was asking the wrong question then? Can an American banker be killed by a drone on American soil?

Anonymous Porky? March 18, 2013 9:31 AM  

It would serve you right if you got another "il duce". Will you still be laughing when the Grillo Squadristi figure out your net worth and decide that you will need "protezione"?

Anonymous Salt March 18, 2013 9:31 AM  

As ZH posts about, Russians have ~60B that could exit, and probably out of the EU all together. Hell, the threat alone is enough to cause it.

This really is a game changer.

Anonymous VD March 18, 2013 9:33 AM  

I'm sure everyone described above would get full due process since you're all good libertarians?

You're missing the point. Due process is no longer involved. The fact that libertarians don't make the rules doesn't mean libertarians can't play by them.

Will you still be laughing when the Grillo Squadristi figure out your net worth and decide that you will need "protezione"?

La Cosa Nostra has always charged more reasonable rates than the so-called legal governments.

Blogger CostelloM March 18, 2013 9:34 AM  

I get to ride the bomb named "Hi there!" Called it!!!

Blogger CostelloM March 18, 2013 9:34 AM  

I get to ride the bomb named "Hi there!" Called it!!!

Blogger CostelloM March 18, 2013 9:34 AM  

I get to ride the bomb named "Hi there!" Called it!!!

Anonymous JI March 18, 2013 9:39 AM  

I keep reading how the bankers are the source of all evil. Fine. But what about those government officials, both appointed and elected, who take an oath to serve and protect the constitution, and yet they then turn around and give the bankers permission to plunder?

Anonymous dh March 18, 2013 9:40 AM  

New corollary to the no political predictions rule.

The irony is that a banker-assassination policy would be entirely constitutional according to the current administration; it is very easy to prove that the bankers are much more serious enemies of the state than al Qaeda. They've certainly done considerably more damage.

No legal interpretations either.

Anonymous History Talking March 18, 2013 9:44 AM  

"it is very easy to prove that the bankers are much more serious enemies of the state than al Qaeda. They've certainly done considerably more damage."

This is really silly. Central banks have been screwing people for centuries. The Fed has for almost a century. But if you equate theft with murder, you are hopeless. No better than an abortionist or Noam Chomksy.

Blogger Angry White Male March 18, 2013 9:45 AM  

"Rand was asking the wrong question then? Can an American banker be killed by a drone on American soil?" - RINO

Only if the bankers are not actually IN the banks when they are being "reconciled". Banks are defacto "safe zones" since under Executive Order 13666 President Obama has rendered them "Economic Embassies"

Anonymous Porky March 18, 2013 9:48 AM  

La Cosa Nostra has always charged more reasonable rates than the so-called legal governments.

And you don't think that Grillo would do the same thing that Mussolini did to La Causa Nostra?

It's a pathetic game you're playing, Vox - hoping to curry favor with the least egregiously corrupt faction of amoral scumbags you can find.

Blogger Nate March 18, 2013 9:50 AM  

"This is really silly. Central banks have been screwing people for centuries. The Fed has for almost a century. But if you equate theft with murder, you are hopeless. No better than an abortionist or Noam Chomksy."

Oh dear... you actually think they don't have blood on their hands. /facepalm

Anonymous Anonymous March 18, 2013 9:54 AM  

OT - but interesting:

http://www.dailygrail.com/Fresh-Science/2013/3/TED-Deletes-Talks-Rupert-Sheldrake-and-Graham-Hancock

"Last month I posted videos of two recent thought-provoking TEDx talks by Graham Hancock and Rupert Sheldrake. However, if you visit either of those stories today, you'll find that the videos are no longer accessible. The reason? Complaints were made to the TED organisation - for example, by atheist blogger Jerry Coyne, and of course, P.Z. Myers - about the lectures being unscientific and full of 'woo'. Under pressure from these bloggers and their readers (and others), TED set up a conversation page to get input from TED viewers about these talks.

Subsequently, TED made a final decision to pull the videos from their YouTube channel. "

Anonymous VD March 18, 2013 9:59 AM  

It's a pathetic game you're playing, Vox - hoping to curry favor with the least egregiously corrupt faction of amoral scumbags you can find.

You're a silly little piglet, Porky. I'm not trying to curry favor with anyone. And unlike you, at least I'm paying attention to what is happening in the world rather than burying my fat snout in debt and voting for Republicans who vow to defeat Obamacare while helping Wall Street rape the world.

But for all their flaws, I'd certainly prefer Mussolini and his Fascists to the globalists in the EU and Washington DC. Anyone who isn't a suicidal idiot would do the same.

Blogger Nate March 18, 2013 10:00 AM  

People people... Vox is a libertarian... He's not advocating GOVERNMENT drone strikes on bankers... we're talking about private sector drone strikes.

Obviously.

Anonymous VD March 18, 2013 10:00 AM  

But what about those government officials, both appointed and elected, who take an oath to serve and protect the constitution, and yet they then turn around and give the bankers permission to plunder?

They are the abettors and the facilitators. But they should not be confused with those they serve.

Blogger Nate March 18, 2013 10:01 AM  

"They are the abettors and the facilitators. But they should not be confused with those they serve."

We can hang them next. No rush.

Blogger Angry White Male March 18, 2013 10:03 AM  

"Oh dear... you actually think they don't have blood on their hands. /facepalm" - Nate

Yup ... See Banco Ambrosiano and Pope John Paul.

Anonymous Josh March 18, 2013 10:06 AM  

But for all their flaws, I'd certainly prefer Mussolini and his Fascists to the globalists in the EU and Washington DC. Anyone who isn't a suicidal idiot would do the same.

Keep in mind that neither Amtrak nor the DC subway system runs on time.

Blogger Angry White Male March 18, 2013 10:07 AM  

"People people... Vox is a libertarian... He's not advocating GOVERNMENT drone strikes on bankers... we're talking about private sector drone strikes.

Obviously." - Nate

Wackenhut Drones Inc. "More Drone for your Dollar" We also accept Yuan or Gold (Upon credit approval)

Anonymous Josh March 18, 2013 10:07 AM  

We can hang them next. No rush.

Lawdy he be talking bout a good ol fashioned lynching!

Anonymous Dot C March 18, 2013 10:08 AM  

Right on time. Hitler VS. Vader

Blogger Nate March 18, 2013 10:09 AM  

"Wackenhut Drones Inc. "More Drone for your Dollar" We also accept Yuan or Gold (Upon credit approval)"

Harbor Freight drones! That's what I am looking forward to.

Blogger Angry White Male March 18, 2013 10:14 AM  

"We can hang them next. No rush.

Lawdy he be talking bout a good ol fashioned lynching!" Josh

No hoods just hoodies please.

Anonymous Godfrey March 18, 2013 10:19 AM  

Gosh, I wonder why gun-control is being pursued so intensely right now.

Anonymous dh March 18, 2013 10:22 AM  

But for all their flaws, I'd certainly prefer Mussolini and his Fascists to the globalists in the EU and Washington DC. Anyone who isn't a suicidal idiot would do the same.

This is pretty surprising and stark. At least you voted with your feet.

Anonymous AXCrom March 18, 2013 10:24 AM  

Serious question then, what do you recommend people do with their savings and checking accounts? I know Ann Barnhardt has withdrawn all of her money and recommends only depositing enough to pay bills etc. Suitcases full of cash? The Fed is all over people who withdraw more than $10K. I would be surprised if a bank has much more $10K+ in cash onsite. Convert it to gold/silver and bury it somewhere? I am hoping for some real suggestions.

Anonymous Porky March 18, 2013 10:26 AM  

You're a silly little piglet, Porky. I'm not trying to curry favor with anyone.
You will when they knock on your door.

And unlike you, at least I'm paying attention to what is happening in the world rather than burying my fat snout in debt and voting for Republicans who vow to defeat Obamacare while helping Wall Street rape the world.

Haven't voted for a republican for quite some time. And my snout is not fat.

But for all their flaws, I'd certainly prefer Mussolini and his Fascists to the globalists in the EU and Washington DC.
Hey, this is why you went there right? Because it had already decayed into a corrupt black-market society?

Italy! Come for the corruption - stay for the fascism!

Enjoy that. You'll look great in those awesome black shirts.

Anonymous Loki of Asgard March 18, 2013 10:28 AM  

Hanging? Why settle? Guillotines are more exciting.

Such is on my agenda, in case you were curious.

Blogger Nate March 18, 2013 10:29 AM  

"Serious question then, what do you recommend people do with their savings and checking accounts?"

You need a good amount of cash on hand for emergencies... then the rest can either be off-shored... or converted a little at a time to gold and silver and such.

Blogger Nate March 18, 2013 10:30 AM  

"Hanging? Why settle? Guillotines are more exciting."

Biohazard. All the blood splashing is theatrical and all.. no question... never the less we must consider the possibility of various infections.

Anonymous dh March 18, 2013 10:31 AM  

You do know, that in this video, "you" are Hitler. And EU are the good guys?

Blogger Nate March 18, 2013 10:34 AM  

DH... Yes. That is actually why the videos are funny. Humor is often based on taking two unrelated things and relating them in some unexpected manner.

Anonymous RINO March 18, 2013 10:35 AM  

Most people here aren't really libertarians, they're populists. You guys should just admit it.

Anonymous Roundtine March 18, 2013 10:36 AM  

Mussolini also had the comedic factor going for him.

Anonymous VD March 18, 2013 10:38 AM  

Hey, this is why you went there right? Because it had already decayed into a corrupt black-market society?

Precisely. I prefer their honest corruption to the hideous structural totalitarian deceit of the corruption in the USA.

Anonymous stg58/Animal Mother March 18, 2013 10:39 AM  

Gallows humor, people. Ever heard of it? Mixed with a little riffing on Shakespeare.

You're no fun anymore. Lemon curry?

Blogger Nate March 18, 2013 10:40 AM  

"Precisely. I prefer their honest corruption to the hideous structural totalitarian deceit of the corruption in the USA."

Its certainly more predictable... and cheaper... and its a lot easier to know who you're supposed to be bribing.

Anonymous Huckleberry - est. 1977 March 18, 2013 10:40 AM  

They assassinated Dillinger for less.

Anonymous Anonymous March 18, 2013 10:41 AM  

"Biohazard. All the blood splashing is theatrical and all.. no question... never the less we must consider the possibility of various infections."

Burn 'em in San Francisco. Safer and cleaner.

Anonymous Josh March 18, 2013 10:43 AM  

Most people here aren't really libertarians, they're populists. You guys should just admit it.

Given the freaking out of many here when it comes to scary dogs (and presumably scary drunk drivers), I'm intended to agree with you.

But just out of curiosity, how would define libertarian?

Anonymous ZhukovG March 18, 2013 10:43 AM  

Better to live in a dictatorship that leaves you be, than a meddlesome democracy.

Anonymous JartStar March 18, 2013 10:45 AM  

What's remarkable to me is that it is now easier to buy PMs than ammo.

Anonymous Red Comet March 18, 2013 10:45 AM  

RINO March 18, 2013 10:35 AM

Most people here aren't really libertarians, they're populists. You guys should just admit it.


I haven't seen this much irony in a while.

Anonymous YIH March 18, 2013 10:49 AM  

When I keep seeing names such as 'Goldman' being associated with these shenanigans has been making me think ''You know, maybe it was excessive, but perhaps the Germans had a reason to do what they did''.
Just like when I see 'Feinstein' front and center on 'gun control'.
And that's the real tragedy here.

Blogger Angry White Male March 18, 2013 10:51 AM  

"Most people here aren't really libertarians, they're populists. You guys should just admit it." - RINO

You do know that you are allowed to post here no matter what your political inclinations are....right?
Second, what purpose would admitting it serve?
Third, can you give an example of a person here that is asserting they are Libertarian...when in fact they are Populist?

Anonymous JartStar March 18, 2013 10:54 AM  

Serious question then, what do you recommend people do with their savings and checking accounts? I know Ann Barnhardt has withdrawn all of her money and recommends only depositing enough to pay bills etc. Suitcases full of cash? The Fed is all over people who withdraw more than $10K. I would be surprised if a bank has much more $10K+ in cash onsite. Convert it to gold/silver and bury it somewhere? I am hoping for some real suggestions.

I started this on the other thread but there's no easy answer. The best options so far is to slowly buy PMs each week/month and if you have an excess of cash move it offshore. I would also convert some of the cash into some "prepping" materials/currency. Go ahead and spend the money on making your house safer and getting 3-6 months food stored up. A secure house can last for decades and food is more valuable than money which can disappear overnight.

Blogger Nate March 18, 2013 10:58 AM  

You can't go wrong investing in various means of production either. Get some land... not as an investment... but as a place to build a farm. Cows... fish... everything. Build a shop.. and learn to make a still.

Anonymous Loki of Asgard March 18, 2013 10:59 AM  

Biohazard. All the blood splashing is theatrical and all.. no question... never the less we must consider the possibility of various infections.

That is why you have glass booths, you know. If you get a particularly lovely splatter, you can preserve it as a museum piece.

Anonymous Roundtine March 18, 2013 11:00 AM  

There's no litmus test for libertarians. You can be a libertarian in good standing with a quirky opinion on immigration, nuclear first strike policy or pitbull genocide.

Blogger Nate March 18, 2013 11:00 AM  

"That is why you have glass booths, you know. If you get a particularly lovely splatter, you can preserve it as a museum piece."

creative. I like it.

Anonymous rienzi March 18, 2013 11:03 AM  

@RINO: Most people here aren't really libertarians, they're populists. You guys should just admit it.


Nah! None of those labels really fit. Most of us would prefer to be fine Christian gentlemen. However, should push come to shove, I have no doubt that most regulars here would be prepared to act with all the gentleness and integrity of an Italian Renaissance Duke.

Anonymous dh March 18, 2013 11:12 AM  

You can't go wrong investing in various means of production either. Get some land... not as an investment... but as a place to build a farm. Cows... fish... everything. Build a shop.. and learn to make a still.

I would add on to that lathe, drill-press and die-casting tools. They are amazingly versatile tools for making actual stuff. There are a lot of great YouTube videos of people making just about anything mechanical with basic metal working processes and tools. A small setup would not cost very much money and with it you could elevate yourself technologically to the early 20th century without much difficulty.

Blogger Nate March 18, 2013 11:13 AM  

"I would add on to that lathe, drill-press and die-casting tools."

Right. That's what I said... "build a shop". That's what a shop is.

Blogger Angry White Male March 18, 2013 11:15 AM  

If the guillotine blade had positive charge running through it and the top of the person's head and torso were grounded, it would be possible to instantly cauterize the wound ... alleviating the mess therefore allowing for quick handling of the body for organ reclamation. Organs could then be sold and the body rendered in order to make soap to help offset the cost of the processing. The relatives would be responsible for any additional costs which would be deducted automatically from either their paychecks or social security payments...

Anonymous JartStar March 18, 2013 11:22 AM  

Right. That's what I said... "build a shop". That's what a shop is.

So essentially a Fallout New Vegas work shop with a reloading bench, work bench, with bins for storing ammo and parts. Now I just need to get the Autodoc working...

I was actually working on my workshop this weekend in the garage while listening to 1940's music and thought I'd decorate it in "Fallout 3" style.

Anonymous Noah B. March 18, 2013 11:28 AM  

This shit is getting real very quickly.

Anonymous Porky March 18, 2013 11:28 AM  

I prefer their honest corruption to the hideous structural totalitarian deceit of the corruption in the USA.

/double face palm/

Italy is at the freaking forefront of the military industrial complex you fool! Or did you forget who provided the forged documents that GWB needed to invade Iraq?

Banksters? Good Lord! The Italian banksters are legendary. Banca d'Italia? Ambrosiano? Bancopoli? How many billions did Banca Nazionale del Lavoro give Iraq for weapons during the Iraqgate scandal?

You haven't escaped the structural totalitarian deceit, my friend. You've buried your head in the sand under the silly premise that the quality of the sand is better.

Anonymous RINO March 18, 2013 11:30 AM  

You do know that you are allowed to post here no matter what your political inclinations are....right?

Who said otherwise?

But for all their flaws, I'd certainly prefer Mussolini and his Fascists to the globalists in the EU and Washington DC.

At this point I'm starting to wonder if a strong nationalistic surge a la fascism is the last remaining defense against demographic disaster that we have left. If so ... bring on the populism!

Blogger Markku March 18, 2013 11:33 AM  

Banksters? Good Lord! The Italian banksters are legendary.

Vox has already said before that he would prever doing business with the Italian Mafia, since they offer more leniency about paying back.

Blogger Nate March 18, 2013 11:38 AM  

Porky... You're making a fool of yourself. Take my word for it.

Anonymous Roundtine March 18, 2013 11:40 AM  

Italy is at the freaking forefront of the military industrial complex you fool!

Parts of Italy are like towns in the rust belt or upstate New York, rural south, all over America. If you move these places, you're not going to notice when America collapses because these places have already collapsed. Business left, unemployment is high, people who can't find jobs have left and the average age of the population keeps rising. On top of that, Italians do not care about politics and ignore what their government tells them to do. Americans follow the law. If the law is corrupt and the government is your enemy, living among people who ignore the law is not a bad option.

Anonymous AXCrom March 18, 2013 11:40 AM  

Thanks. I have been doing some of this already, food, water, medicine and ammo preps for the family that will last at least six months. I have a couple of dogs, one serious guard dog and the others are noisemakers. I am slowly building a shop, but food/alcohol production I haven't done anything with.
Still, I am way too exposed with the bank accounts, which is why I need to do something there but wasn't sure what. Any suggestions for trustworthy sites where I can get silver coins and gold? Any recommendations for sites that explain offshoring that you all trust? I don't want to trust Google.

Anonymous Anonymous March 18, 2013 11:40 AM  

You do know, that in this video, "you" are Hitler. And EU are the good guys?

And Vader got served. Especially the bit about not being able to get his son into the family business...

Blogger Nate March 18, 2013 11:43 AM  

"Still, I am way too exposed with the bank accounts, which is why I need to do something there but wasn't sure what. Any suggestions for trustworthy sites where I can get silver coins and gold? Any recommendations for sites that explain offshoring that you all trust? I don't want to trust Google."

First things first... get an ironkey jump drive. Then use it to securely place your order. I myself buy physical gold and silver from several places... but I have actually used Monex in the past and found them to be reliable and easy to deal with.

Anonymous Josh March 18, 2013 11:48 AM  

At this point I'm starting to wonder if a strong nationalistic surge a la fascism is the last remaining defense against demographic disaster that we have left. If so ... bring on the populism!

And now we understand why socialism tends to win out. Once you can catalyze society against "the other", you can pretty much do whatever you want, take state control of everything, as long as you protect the right people from those scary bad other people...

Anonymous Agent Asper March 18, 2013 11:48 AM  

I've had good luck with Apmex and Northwest Territorial for metals, as well.

Blogger Markku March 18, 2013 11:49 AM  

get an ironkey jump drive

Or download TrueCrypt. Wikipedia:

In July 2008, several TrueCrypt-secured hard drives were seized from a Brazilian banker Daniel Dantas, who was suspected of financial crimes. The Brazilian National Institute of Criminology (INC) tried unsuccessfully for five months to obtain access to his files on the TrueCrypt-protected disks. They enlisted the help of the FBI, who used dictionary attacks against Dantas' disks for over 12 months, but were still unable to decrypt them.[52] The case presented a noteworthy real-world test which proved the strength of TrueCrypt.

Anonymous RINO March 18, 2013 11:57 AM  

And now we understand why socialism tends to win out. Once you can catalyze society against "the other", you can pretty much do whatever you want, take state control of everything, as long as you protect the right people from those scary bad other people...

Which is why the distinction between libertarian and populist may be important as they lead to two different things. A fitting definition for populism is that it's an ideology that "pits a virtuous and homogeneous people against a set of elites and dangerous ‘others’ who were together depicted as depriving (or attempting to deprive) the sovereign people of their rights, values, prosperity, identity, and voice". Would anyone deny that's often what goes on around here?

Anonymous JartStar March 18, 2013 11:59 AM  

Is it worth paying the premium for Eagles? It may be easier to use as currency later on as people will recognize them.

Anonymous The One March 18, 2013 12:01 PM  

Head over to Zippy Catholic, "Fire!" post. Great financial exchange showing how completely blind some people are.

Blogger Nate March 18, 2013 12:02 PM  

"Is it worth paying the premium for Eagles? It may be easier to use as currency later on as people will recognize them."

As long as its a maple leaf..an eagle.. or a philharmoic... everyone will know what it is.

Anonymous Porky March 18, 2013 12:03 PM  

Nate: Porky... You're making a fool of yourself. Take my word for it.

If citing historical fact makes me a fool in your eyes so be it.

Roundtine: Parts of Italy are like towns in the rust belt or upstate New York, rural south, all over America. If you move these places, you're not going to notice when America collapses because these places have already collapsed.
Trust me, I get it. But this does nothing to support the argument that Italian corruption is somehow more "honest". They are just as dirty, just as evil.

Markku: Vox has already said before that he would prever doing business with the Italian Mafia, since they offer more leniency about paying back.

Hey here's a concept: don't do business with murderous scumbags... period. Wow.

Anonymous Josh March 18, 2013 12:04 PM  

Would anyone deny that's often what goes on around here?

That's certainly true amongst a subset of commenters here.

It's not, however, the entire set.

Anonymous RINO March 18, 2013 12:04 PM  

Is it worth paying the premium for Eagles? It may be easier to use as currency later on as people will recognize them.

Off topic: Is gold even worth getting at all? It seems like it just draws attention to yourself (price of purchase, and large difference in appearance from other coins) and it's relatively impractical for everyday purchases. Silver seems like a far superior purchase ... it's undervalued compares to gold and much more practical.

Blogger Markku March 18, 2013 12:07 PM  

Hey Nate, do you know how easy it is to cut 999.9% pure gold into tradeable pieces with pliers, or other Fallout 4 Live equipment? I would assume very easy since it is so soft, but of course there might be some things I haven't considered. Such pieces should also be easily proven to be gold by the good old biting test.

Not that I have any...

Anonymous Josh March 18, 2013 12:08 PM  

But this does nothing to support the argument that Italian corruption is somehow more "honest". They are just as dirty, just as evil.

It's more honest because they're open about the corruption. "yeah, we're corrupt."

Whereas Americans will vigorously scream their denial that the city on a hill could ever be anything but super good and super awesome. "how dare you call us corrupt? We're the last hope of mankind! We're not corrupt at all! American exceptionalism!"

Anonymous Anonymous March 18, 2013 12:09 PM  

Thanks Nate and Markku (normally you have to pay big bucks for this sort of information). For those who are financially challenged, and don't have lost of cash laying around, set small, reasonable goals. For the past 18 mos. I have purchased 1/4 oz gold per month (Apmex), and have budgeted 20% of my monthly income towards hope prep (MRE's, workshop equipment, gardening supplies). We live in an old farm house with a functioning cistern in the basement, so I'm working on that as well. Also, in the plans to start raising rabbits (after all they breed like rabbits).



Blogger Markku March 18, 2013 12:09 PM  

Hey here's a concept: don't do business with murderous scumbags... period. Wow.

Not that I have first-hand experience, but I'm starting to think if perhaps the picture that media is trying to sell us about the Mafia is a bit self-serving for the establishment.

Anonymous Anonymous March 18, 2013 12:10 PM  

"First things first... get an ironkey jump drive. Then use it to securely place your order. I myself buy physical gold and silver from several places... but I have actually used Monex in the past and found them to be reliable and easy to deal with."

I buy mine at a coin shop. My name is John. John Doe.

Anonymous Anonymous March 18, 2013 12:11 PM  

"Also, in the plans to start raising rabbits (after all they breed like rabbits)."

And chickens too. Easy and trading eggs is always good as well.

Blogger Nate March 18, 2013 12:13 PM  

"Hey Nate, do you know how easy it is to cut 999.9% pure gold into tradeable pieces with pliers, or other Fallout 4 Live equipment?"

I have seen orthodox jews make change by carving off a slice of gold like slicing cheese from a block... and putting it on scales.

Anonymous The One March 18, 2013 12:13 PM  

Maybe i am agree, but agree with anon. Online seems dangerous, why not save money and pay cash in a coin shop while wearing a hat. Premium is worth it IMO.

Anonymous dh March 18, 2013 12:14 PM  

Right. That's what I said... "build a shop". That's what a shop is.
Sorry, you know, I sort of figured that the shop you described was for the express purpose of making certain beverages. Too many people focus their own shops on woodworking only. Glad to hear that you subscribe to making sure you can at least replicate the iron age in your home shop.

Blogger Nate March 18, 2013 12:15 PM  

"If citing historical fact makes me a fool in your eyes so be it."

No.

That's not it. Just let it go.

Blogger Markku March 18, 2013 12:16 PM  

Nate: What about melting, do you think a nice little nugget could be made from such slices with a portable gas welder?

Blogger Nate March 18, 2013 12:16 PM  

" Glad to hear that you subscribe to making sure you can at least replicate the iron age in your home shop."

language thing I guess... where I am from a "shop" means "a metal working shop".

Blogger Nate March 18, 2013 12:17 PM  

"Nate: What about melting, do you think a nice little nugget could be made from such slices with a portable gas welder?"

Wouldn't even need a welder. plane ol' torch will do.

Blogger Markku March 18, 2013 12:18 PM  

Wouldn't even need a welder. plane ol' torch will do.

Ah, yes, that's what I meant, just couldn't remember the word.

Anonymous Porky March 18, 2013 12:19 PM  

Not that I have first-hand experience, but I'm starting to think if perhaps the picture that media is trying to sell us about the Mafia is a bit self-serving for the establishment.

Just another grease ball drug cartel.

Blogger Markku March 18, 2013 12:20 PM  

Just another grease ball drug cartel.

I'm talking about the Italian Mafia that's actually in Italy.

Anonymous Anonymous March 18, 2013 12:20 PM  

Maybe i am agree, but agree with anon. Online seems dangerous, why not save money and pay cash in a coin shop while wearing a hat. Premium is worth it IMO"

Think shipping. Gotta go to an address, right? I'm just some dude walking into the shop with some $. Mr. Nobody...

Anonymous ODG March 18, 2013 12:21 PM  

Don't even need a torch:

2000 degF "torch" from projection TV


It will help with your still, too.

Anonymous Porky March 18, 2013 12:21 PM  

That's not it. Just let it go.

Quit tryin' to control my speech. It's my rope - I'll hang myself if I want to.

Damn libertarians.

Blogger Markku March 18, 2013 12:23 PM  

A torch will obviously be enough to melt it, but I'm wondering how much impurities it will introduce into the nugget. Solar power might be better in that regard.

Anonymous Anonymous March 18, 2013 12:23 PM  

"Just another grease ball drug cartel."

Yup. But never been attacked, robbed, raped or carjacked by the Mafia. But better than niggers. Better than pork eating niggers...Capiche?

Anonymous Sojourner March 18, 2013 12:23 PM  

BTW...is there some connection here due to the fact the Russians heavy use Cyprus banks? It was brought up earlier that Russia had kicked out all foreign banks right?

Anonymous Porky March 18, 2013 12:27 PM  

I'm talking about the Italian Mafia that's actually in Italy.

Yes, I'm sure they have nothing to do with the very lucrative drug trade.

Blogger Markku March 18, 2013 12:27 PM  

Yes, I'm sure they have nothing to do with the very lucrative drug trade.

Of course they do, it just seems from what Vox has said before that their main function in Italy is lending money.

Anonymous VD March 18, 2013 12:27 PM  

Hey here's a concept: don't do business with murderous scumbags... period. Wow.

Porky is a liberal chick? You forgot "so sad".

Anonymous JartStar March 18, 2013 12:29 PM  

Live feed about Cyprus here.

UK soldiers stationed there are losing their money too. That's a good idea, take the money from soldiers it's not like they are armed or anything.

Blogger Markku March 18, 2013 12:31 PM  

Of course there is some moral concern about some of the profits eventually going into drug trade, but at least they're not murdering babies like the establishment.

Blogger Joshua_D March 18, 2013 12:32 PM  

ODG March 18, 2013 12:21 PM

Don't even need a torch:

2000 degF "torch" from projection TV

It will help with your still, too.


Cool video. I'm surprised that guy hasn't killed himself yet.

Anonymous Anonymous March 18, 2013 12:32 PM  

Of course they do, it just seems from what Vox has said before that their main function in Italy is lending money."

Yet unlike the gubbmint, those Guidos aren't forcing anyone do do business with them. At least they never did back in the day in Brooklyn where my WOP/Guido father grew up and began his olive oil business. He was offered "help" several times, but he was too proud to accept the uh, "assistance."

Now go and say a prayer to St. Hayha for me. As a Finn, your words have more power than mine regarding such spiritual activities...

Blogger James Dixon March 18, 2013 12:33 PM  

> Any suggestions for trustworthy sites where I can get silver coins and gold?

Our last order (for silver) was with Apmex, which I see has already been mentioned.

If you think Vox is overreacting and don't expect them to tap investment accounts or the market to collapse/trading halted, then GLD and SLV will get you paper versions of gold and silver, but they're only good as long as both trust and the system are working, neither of which are remotely guaranteed.

> Or download TrueCrypt.

Truecrypt is for encrypting the drive, not the communication channel. I think that's what Nate was referring to.

> Is it worth paying the premium for Eagles?

If that's what you're comfortable with, yes. Otherwise, probably not over Maple Leafs or some similar.

> Silver seems like a far superior purchase ... it's undervalued compares to gold and much more practical.

There's no real reason not to do both.

Anonymous Mr. Pigglesworth March 18, 2013 12:34 PM  

Libertarianism is nice and all, but there isn't any prospect of the public actually voting for it any time soon.

As material conditions worsen, it becomes necessary to stop thinking about the ideal solution and to start thinking about how we can survive as semi-free men.

Drone strikes against bankers sounds like a good start and I'm thinking that we could get a lot of people to sign up for it.

Anonymous rycamor March 18, 2013 12:34 PM  

dh March 18, 2013 12:14 PM

Right. That's what I said... "build a shop". That's what a shop is.
Sorry, you know, I sort of figured that the shop you described was for the express purpose of making certain beverages. Too many people focus their own shops on woodworking only. Glad to hear that you subscribe to making sure you can at least replicate the iron age in your home shop.


It wouldn't surprise me if Nate has a full CAD-driven CNC machine, and of course a 3D printer for prototyping, so probably a little past the Iron Age. Also, I suspect he has downloaded a fair portion of Makezine and related YT videos to a secure drive encased in lead. Just sayin', that's my plan if I can pull together enough money.

Blogger Markku March 18, 2013 12:35 PM  

Truecrypt is for encrypting the drive, not the communication channel. I think that's what Nate was referring to.

He was talking about a drive so I assumed he was worried about cache. I also assumed that it's self-evident that you use Tor for traffic. But maybe it comes preinstalled with the drive, I wouldn't know.

Anonymous Anomalous March 18, 2013 12:35 PM  

@axcrom

No local coin dealer? Pay cash, no records... Buy in small amounts.

Blogger Joshua_D March 18, 2013 12:37 PM  

Mr. Pigglesworth March 18, 2013 12:34 PM
Libertarianism is nice and all, but there isn't any prospect of the public actually voting for it any time soon.

As material conditions worsen, it becomes necessary to stop thinking about the ideal solution and to start thinking about how we can survive as semi-free men.

Drone strikes against bankers sounds like a good start and I'm thinking that we could get a lot of people to sign up for it.


Welcome to the cold, practical, survivalist instinct of Generation X.

Anonymous rycamor March 18, 2013 12:39 PM  

On a related note, Markku, have you been playing with the Raspberry Pi lately? I might include stocking up on good stack of those in my plan.

Blogger  Trust Ted get misled. Gamma secret kings reddit March 18, 2013 12:41 PM  

Haha, humming 'nein, nein, nein,' never fails in its humor. It is incredible, utterly surreal that no soft news agency or really anywhere on regular stateside cable is covering this.

Anonymous Anonymous March 18, 2013 12:43 PM  

"It is incredible, utterly surreal that no soft news agency or really anywhere on regular stateside cable is covering this."

They media in the US is searching for those Klansmen at Oberlin. News at 11...

Blogger Nate March 18, 2013 12:44 PM  

"He was talking about a drive so I assumed he was worried about cache. I also assumed that it's self-evident that you use Tor for traffic. But maybe it comes preinstalled with the drive, I wouldn't know."

Mate... IronKey is a drive... but it also allows you to surf via Ironkey's encrypted servers using tunneling techniques to keep your travels secure. It even comes with a preinstalled version of firefox and an on screen keyboard to foil keyloggers.

Anonymous Porky March 18, 2013 12:46 PM  

You forgot "so sad".

Ok. It's "so sad" that in the face of factual evidence you run away tossing insults over your shoulder.

Italy has been a lapdog for the MIC for decades. For someone who claims to be "paying attention to what is happening in the world" you seem awfully unwilling to engage this point.

Blogger Markku March 18, 2013 12:51 PM  

On a related note, Markku, have you been playing with the Raspberry Pi lately? I might include stocking up on good stack of those in my plan.

The company I subcontract for, has considered it as a platform instead of the more expensive embedded Linux that's currently used, but Raspberry Pi lacks some very particular features that are needed. However, it might get used for certain other things that are in the plans. We had one here at the office for a while.

However, in a Fallout 4 Live scenario, you rarely need that much processing power. The newer model uses 110mA when idle (the older uses 330mA), whereas the 8-bit Rabbit 2000 uses 4mA in the lowest CPU frequency. When you don't have a reliable power source around, just rechargeable batteries, power consumption is very important.

For example, you might use an 8-bit processor to OPERATE your turrets and proximity mines, and one central Raspberry Pi to analyze the sensor data and send commands.

Blogger Markku March 18, 2013 12:52 PM  

It even comes with a preinstalled version of firefox and an on screen keyboard to foil keyloggers.

Ok, so I guessed right, it comes with preinstalled Tor. But you can also download it for free.

Blogger Markku March 18, 2013 12:58 PM  

https://tails.boum.org/

You can achieve all that with this, at the cost of one empty DVD. Live DVD's "install" Linux into RAM instead of your hard drive (and keep it there only for the time you're actually using it), so everything is wiped out the moment you shut down your computer. And this one is already configured to use Tor.

Blogger Markku March 18, 2013 1:03 PM  

On an unrelated note, if Nate pays for my air fares, I have some ideas for prototypes I'd like to test out.

Blogger Nate March 18, 2013 1:09 PM  

You can do all of it Markku... but lots of folks here are not tech savvy. Which is why I say... buy an ironkey.

Blogger James Dixon March 18, 2013 1:13 PM  

> ...it comes with preinstalled Tor.

More likely a VPN client. With Tor you have no idea how your traffic will be routed. I haven't looked at it myself.

Anonymous ODG March 18, 2013 1:16 PM  

Buying online with an Ironkey may keep the online transaction secure, but they still have onfile the address to which they shipped the PMs. So when the g'mint subpeonas their records, they'll know where the metals are.

Blogger Markku March 18, 2013 1:18 PM  

What worries me is that IronKey is a commercial product, so the government probably has forced them to install back doors, lest they be put out of business. TrueCrypt and a Live DVD with Tor, however, are community projects, and something you could compile from the source code yourself.

Anonymous VD March 18, 2013 1:19 PM  

Ok. It's "so sad" that in the face of factual evidence you run away tossing insults over your shoulder.

Who is running away, little pig? I'm right here, laughing at you. Do you even speak Italian?

Anonymous geoff March 18, 2013 1:22 PM  

thx for the ironkey recommendation. i hear linux and my eyes glaze over

Anonymous Stilicho March 18, 2013 1:26 PM  

What's remarkable to me is that it is now easier to buy PMs than ammo.

The left knows their goal and plays for keeps.

At this point I'm starting to wonder if a strong nationalistic surge a la fascism is the last remaining defense against demographic disaster that we have left. If so ... bring on the populism!

National Populist party? The Nappies?

Anonymous Josh March 18, 2013 1:34 PM  

Do you even speak Italian?

DO YOU EVEN PARLI THE ITALIANO, BRO?

Blogger Markku March 18, 2013 1:34 PM  

i hear linux and my eyes glaze over

Using a Live DVD for the duration you engage in clandestine activities is COMPLETELY different than using it as your primary desktop operating system. I mean, my over 60 years old father, who is just barely computer-literate, uses a Linux live DVD for internet banking.

Anonymous Josh March 18, 2013 1:35 PM  

The Nappies?

You be referring to dem heads of dem hoes again?

Blogger Markku March 18, 2013 1:44 PM  

dem hoes

Democrat is a proper noun, you should capitalize it even if abbreviated.

Anonymous Jack Amok March 18, 2013 1:51 PM  

What people seem to be missing here... is that to protect its Banks... the EU has declared war on Russia's Banks.

Nate, I wondered that same thing. Seems like a poor plan on the EU's part (but, ah, that wouldn't surprise me, they're getting desperate). I can see frequent "problems" with the Gazprom lines going into Europe...

But then it occurred to me, the Russian banks having huge exposure in Cyprus also means they stand to lose even worse if the Cypriot banks collapse*. So the EU perhaps figures it must bail out the Cypriot banks, but ran into a snag with German voters. Possibly the haircut plan is something they worked out with the Russian banks, the Ruskies agreeing that a 10% loss was better than a 100% one. Alternately, there's a backroom deal to make that 10% good for the Russians, or at least for the well-connected ones, I can imagine the Russian banksters have their own rivalries and wouldn't mind sticking it to one of their competitors.

Stupid or corrupt or both.

* "if" is really "when" of course, but for them moment let's think like Eurocrats and banksters and focus on kicking the can down the road.

Anonymous RINO March 18, 2013 1:51 PM  

National Populist party? The Nappies?

If they end the globalist stranglehold on immigration and free trade, and dish out some justice against fraud, then I would welcome The Nappies.

Anonymous Loki of Asgard March 18, 2013 1:58 PM  

don't do business with murderous scumbags...

In other words, with nobody.

Anonymous JartStar March 18, 2013 2:00 PM  

Russia is not a military threat to NATO anymore and everyone know it. The EU can push them around all they want.

Anonymous rycamor March 18, 2013 2:08 PM  

Markku March 18, 2013 12:51 PM
...
However, in a Fallout 4 Live scenario, you rarely need that much processing power. The newer model uses 110mA when idle (the older uses 330mA), whereas the 8-bit Rabbit 2000 uses 4mA in the lowest CPU frequency. When you don't have a reliable power source around, just rechargeable batteries, power consumption is very important.

For example, you might use an 8-bit processor to OPERATE your turrets and proximity mines, and one central Raspberry Pi to analyze the sensor data and send commands.


Sounds about right. Of course given enough power you also want surveillance systems, communications and automation of locks, gates, shutters and such. To put it all together you need an 8-core workstation connected to a wall of 32" touch displays. Every freeholder should have his own Command & Control center, right?

Anonymous Josh March 18, 2013 2:12 PM  

Russia is not a military threat to NATO anymore and everyone know it. The EU can push them around all they want.

They have nukes...and compare their military to the non-US NATO forces...

Blogger Markku March 18, 2013 2:16 PM  

Of course given enough power you also want surveillance systems, communications and automation of locks, gates, shutters and such.

I've personally tested that a reasonably powerful embedded Linux (I tried Linutop about five years ago) can run Motion on at least one camera. I didn't have a second one available but my feeling is that it could have run at least two with full power, and more by dropping frame rate. (Decreases the motion detection's intelligence)

Note that the algorithm is very intelligent. It can, for example, tell the difference between moving trees and moving human being by dynamically masking out the parts of picture that are constantly changing. Or, you can give it a static mask that you have created yourself.

Anonymous JartStar March 18, 2013 2:19 PM  

Ivan Tchakarov, chief economist at the Moscow-based Renaissance Capital investment bank, said in a morning note to investors that if Cyprus were to impose capital controls, "Russian banks could face significant losses amounting to almost 2 percent of the GDP."

They probably can't do anything about it, but the Russians sure will be pissed if the EU takes 2% of GDP off the top this next year thanks to this action.


They have nukes...and compare their military to the non-US NATO forces...


NATO has better nukes and nearly every NATO country has superior conventional forces as well. The Russian bear is dead right now, as all they have is cannon fodder like they always do and that's not good enough to fight a conventional war in 2013 like it was in 1940.

Blogger James Dixon March 18, 2013 2:23 PM  

> To put it all together you need an 8-core workstation connected to a wall of 32" touch displays.

Only if you run Windows.

Anonymous Vidad March 18, 2013 2:24 PM  

"Of course given enough power you also want surveillance systems, communications and automation of locks, gates, shutters and such. To put it all together you need an 8-core workstation connected to a wall of 32" touch displays. Every freeholder should have his own Command & Control center, right?"

Nedry? Is that you?

Blogger Nate March 18, 2013 2:31 PM  

"NATO has better nukes and nearly every NATO country has superior conventional forces as well. The Russian bear is dead right now, as all they have is cannon fodder like they always do and that's not good enough to fight a conventional war in 2013 like it was in 1940."

Bahahahahahahah

Chief... keep thinking that.

Blogger Markku March 18, 2013 2:32 PM  

Can you imagine how useful information it is when Motion tells you that there is movement in these particular coordinates of the camera picture, and by extension, this particular angle? You can use it to point something at the intruder.

Like a sign that asks him to kindly please leave. Or whatever.

Blogger Nate March 18, 2013 2:33 PM  

" Alternately, there's a backroom deal to make that 10% good for the Russians, or at least for the well-connected ones, I can imagine the Russian banksters have their own rivalries and wouldn't mind sticking it to one of their competitors."

The word is now... the backroom deal is.. stock in the banks in exchange for the haircut... backed up by... you guessed it... Gas and Oil Reserves.

Anonymous JartStar March 18, 2013 2:42 PM  

Bahahahahahahah

Chief... keep thinking that.


So in the post-Cold War world Russia ended up being stronger than NATO militarily? I haven't read anything recently which makes me believe this to be true and I read several military publication monthly.

Anonymous Porky March 18, 2013 2:42 PM  

In other words, with nobody.

Not exactly. I suspect Vox is employing the "devil you know" strategy. Why this strategy should be more effective with Italian scumbags vs. American scumbags is something he has yet to explain.

As for me, I don't deal with scumbags - even scumbags I like personally.

Blogger Markku March 18, 2013 2:44 PM  

So in the post-Cold War world Russia ended up being stronger than NATO militarily?

When Afghans can hack a drone remotely, just how useful do you think the modern NATO military is against an opponent that can throw almost unlimited manpower against you?

Anonymous JartStar March 18, 2013 2:47 PM  

When Afghans can hack a drone remotely, just how useful do you think the modern NATO military is against an opponent that can throw almost unlimited manpower against you?

Well I can't argue with the Finn. If he says Russia is more powerful than NATO then I'll go with it as they face the bear, sick or not, every day.

Blogger Markku March 18, 2013 2:47 PM  

For the last decade, the entire Western military strategy has been funded with one objective in mind: Beating an enemy that is still practically in the stone age, with as few soldiers as possible.

Russia has been considerably more intelligent in the meanwhile.

Blogger Markku March 18, 2013 2:51 PM  

I'm not saying that they are currently more powerful in the sense that they could beat the same stone age enemy more efficiently than NATO could. That they couldn't do. But they almost certainly have a red button that renders almost the entire NATO army as scrap metal. And then their old clunkers with no chips inside them, will look considerably more intimidating.

Anonymous rycamor March 18, 2013 2:53 PM  

James Dixon March 18, 2013 2:23 PM

> To put it all together you need an 8-core workstation connected to a wall of 32" touch displays.

Only if you run Windows.


No dude... I run FreeBSD. Linux is even too user-friendly. I could run the visual interface itself on an old Pentium 4. But honestly, if you are putting all that money into the other stuff, a few extra bucks to have 8 cores (and 16GB of RAM and a few TB storage) is negligible, and then you can run all sorts of interesting software as well as your UI stuff. The open source world is a veritable playground.

Anonymous rycamor March 18, 2013 2:54 PM  

Markku March 18, 2013 2:32 PM

Can you imagine how useful information it is when Motion tells you that there is movement in these particular coordinates of the camera picture, and by extension, this particular angle? You can use it to point something at the intruder.

Like a sign that asks him to kindly please leave. Or whatever.


I'm thinking eyes on the sky, too.

Ever played with OpenCV?

Blogger Markku March 18, 2013 2:55 PM  

a few extra bucks to have 8 cores (and 16GB of RAM and a few TB storage) is negligible

What it means to reliable power supply in a Fallout 4 Live scenario, however, is anything but negligible.

Blogger Markku March 18, 2013 2:57 PM  

Ever played with OpenCV?

Nope.

Blogger Markku March 18, 2013 3:04 PM  

What you want instead is one of those laptops that are designed for maximum battery life. They will give the same amount of processing power as using an old computer like Pentium 4, with huge savings in power consumption.

Anonymous Loki of Asgard March 18, 2013 3:40 PM  

As for me, I don't deal with scumbags - even scumbags I like personally.

In other words, nobody.

Anonymous Porky March 18, 2013 3:52 PM  

In other words, nobody.

My optometrist is a scumbag. But she is not murderous as far as I can tell. She gets my business.

My understanding is that one of the primary initiation rites for La Cosa Nostra is to murder somebody. They probably won't be getting my business.

Capiche?

Can you understand why "Fuck those scumbags at Citibank, I'm going to the mafia - they have better terms" simply sounds like the rationalization of a disgruntled expatriate?

Anonymous rycamor March 18, 2013 3:57 PM  

Markku March 18, 2013 12:09 PM

Hey here's a concept: don't do business with murderous scumbags... period. Wow.

Not that I have first-hand experience, but I'm starting to think if perhaps the picture that media is trying to sell us about the Mafia is a bit self-serving for the establishment.


I've done business for a few who I found out were "connected". My experience: if you deal with them fair and square and no lying, they will be models of gentlemanly honor. What's not to like? Of course, I'm sure if you act like a lying weasel, then you might find yourself introduced to the less gentlemanly element. None of them brought up the connection directly with me, although one who took a liking to me as a young man offered to have some business enemies of mine dealt with. Graciously declined, never brought up again...

Anonymous Loki of Asgard March 18, 2013 4:04 PM  

Can you understand why "Fuck those scumbags at Citibank, I'm going to the mafia - they have better terms" simply sounds like the rationalization of a disgruntled expatriate?

Well, as we're taking people literally here today...

My optometrist is a scumbag. But she is not murderous as far as I can tell. She gets my business.

But you just said "As for me, I don't deal with scumbags - even scumbags I like personally. " Perhaps you meant to say "I don't deal with scumbags who kill people. Any other crime won't keep my money in my pocket."

My understanding is that one of the primary initiation rites for La Cosa Nostra is to murder somebody. They probably won't be getting my business.

But there is a chance, I see.

Blogger Markku March 18, 2013 4:20 PM  

Money to the establishment is money to abortion. It is by no means obvious that money to the Mafia is the morally worse option.

Anonymous Porky March 18, 2013 4:23 PM  

Perhaps you meant to say "I don't deal with scumbags who kill people.

I did say that upthread.

I've done business for a few who I found out were "connected". My experience: if you deal with them fair and square and no lying, they will be models of gentlemanly honor.

Yes and that guy who lived with bears in the Yukon said they had accepted him into their clan.
What's your point?

Look, people - the thing that got us all here in the first place is lack of morality and character. The thing to NOT do now is to exchange banksters for gangsters. Now is the time for your light to shine on a hill, not to be put under a bushel.

Anonymous rycamor March 18, 2013 4:28 PM  

Anyone who thinks they can function in the normal world and not somehow, somewhere bring money to the Mafia needs a clue. They're not just thugs running the loading docks. You will find Mafia involved in just about any kind of business you can imagine. And they don't all have Italian names or tawk like dis.

Anonymous rycamor March 18, 2013 4:45 PM  

Porky March 18, 2013 4:23 PM

I've done business for a few who I found out were "connected". My experience: if you deal with them fair and square and no lying, they will be models of gentlemanly honor.

Yes and that guy who lived with bears in the Yukon said they had accepted him into their clan.
What's your point?


Reading problem? Look at what Markku said that I was responding to. In other words, no, they are not all "murderous thugs." Even the ones that are have a code of honor, which is more than can be said for most of the government's thugs. The government makes a habit of preying on the weak and innocent while the Mafia primarily take advantage of the greedy and unprincipled.

I did not set out to do business with The Mob. It just happened in the course of events that I found some clients of mine had Mob connections. No big deal really, happens all the time. My business had nothing to do with anything of a scammish nature. Providing a valid service, getting a valid recompense... no moral compromise that I could see. I mean, one project was for a pizza chain.

Anonymous Loki of Asgard March 18, 2013 4:50 PM  

Perhaps you meant to say "I don't deal with scumbags who kill people.

I did say that upthread.


But scumbags who steal, scumbags who break oaths, heathen scumbags, and scumbags who commit adultery are perfectly acceptable. Shine that light, sister, for all to see. Let us bask in your righteousness.

Anonymous Loki of Asgard March 18, 2013 4:52 PM  

Providing a valid service, getting a valid recompense... no moral compromise that I could see.

It was an offer you could not refuse.

...Come now, you knew it would be said at some point.

Anonymous Porky March 18, 2013 5:00 PM  

rycamor: In other words, no, they are not all "murderous thugs.

If murder is part of the initiation, then yes - they are all murderous thugs.

Loki: But scumbags who steal, scumbags who break oaths, heathen scumbags, and scumbags who commit adultery are perfectly acceptable.

I guess it comes down to embracing the sin or not. If someone is unrepentantly and openly adulterous it tends to speak about what they might screw you in a business relationship. If somebody messes up and commits adultery but repents it speaks to how they will deal with you too.

It's just a moral guideline. Quit trying to play "gotcha" - it makes look more faggy than usual.

Anonymous Loki of Asgard March 18, 2013 5:17 PM  

If murder is part of the initiation, then yes - they are all murderous thugs.

If.

I guess it comes down to embracing the sin or not. If someone is unrepentantly and openly adulterous it tends to speak about what they might screw you in a business relationship. If somebody messes up and commits adultery but repents it speaks to how they will deal with you too.

So your reason for not dealing with murderous scumbags is not out of any moral compunction, but merely because you think they will kill you.

Shine on, Porky, shine on.

It's just a moral guideline.

Out of curiosity, are you using the word "moral" to mean "convenient to me"?

Quit trying to play "gotcha" - it makes look more faggy than usual.

I imagine your next move will be to refuse to bed me.

Blogger Markku March 18, 2013 5:22 PM  

If there was a decent party available, then obviously you would patronize it with your money. Like, say, a wealthy relative. But between an international bank and the Mafia, there just isn't. Obviously the particular individual you are dealing with is more likely to be decent if you are dealing with a bank, but morally that is irrelevant. You have to consider the entire chain.

Anonymous Porky March 18, 2013 6:30 PM  

So your reason for not dealing with murderous scumbags is not out of any moral compunction, but merely because you think they will kill you.

False dichotomy.

Out of curiosity, are you using the word "moral" to mean "convenient to me"?

No.

I imagine your next move will be to refuse to bed me.

Awesome retort.

Anonymous Porky March 18, 2013 6:32 PM  

Markku: But between an international bank and the Mafia, there just isn't.

You can go to George Bailey's Savings and Loan, or you can go to Mr. Potter.

Mr Potter has great terms, but he's kind of a dick.

Anonymous Loki of Asgard March 18, 2013 6:39 PM  

So your reason for not dealing with murderous scumbags is not out of any moral compunction, but merely because you think they will kill you.

False dichotomy.


Truly? Do you wish to explain wherein lies the dichotomy, or shall I assume that you believe the only sin to put a bushel basket over your vaunted light is murder, even if it is murder committed by someone several degrees away from you.

You have a very interesting morality in either case, dear swine.

I imagine your next move will be to refuse to bed me.

Awesome retort.


Well, not near so clever and cutting as using the word "faggy", I must admit.

Anonymous VD March 18, 2013 7:15 PM  

My understanding is that one of the primary initiation rites for La Cosa Nostra is to murder somebody.

Your understanding is incorrect and appears to be based on Hollywood films. I suggest you compare the estimated size of the Mafia to the Italian murder rate and then rethink your understanding. There are an estimated 25,000 mafiosi in Italy. There are 780 annual murders.

They're no angels, but they're not soulless monsters like the Eurofascists.

Blogger Markku March 18, 2013 7:31 PM  

You can go to George Bailey's Savings and Loan, or you can go to Mr. Potter.

Are you saying that the international bank (Citibank in a previous post of yours) is the equivalent of George Bailey's Savings and Loan, or are you postulating a third entity to the scenario?

Anonymous FUBAR Nation Ben March 18, 2013 7:56 PM  

Vox how do you know how many mafioso are in Italy?

Blogger The Aardvark March 18, 2013 8:11 PM  

"You will find Mafia involved in just about any kind of business you can imagine." -- rycamor

Except in Vegas. None of 'em there. No sir.



Blogger Nate March 18, 2013 8:46 PM  

"Vox how do you know how many mafioso are in Italy?"

They are pussy cats compared to the greeks.

Anonymous meh March 18, 2013 8:55 PM  

"Mate... IronKey is a drive... but it also allows you to surf via Ironkey's encrypted servers using tunneling techniques to keep your travels secure. It even comes with a preinstalled version of firefox and an on screen keyboard to foil keyloggers."

And lots of other interesting features:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/07/13/ironkey-boasts-worlds-most-physically-and-cryptographically-se/


Anonymous meh March 18, 2013 8:59 PM  

"I get to ride the bomb named "Hi there!" Called it!!!"

Herman: Hey...see the sign? ["Do not ride the bomb"]

Anonymous Lesbian Dorito Night March 18, 2013 9:23 PM  

VD--They're no angels [the Mafia], but they're not soulless monsters like the Eurofascists.

There is no moral continuum for evil.

Anonymous Porky March 18, 2013 10:47 PM  

There are an estimated 25,000 mafiosi in Italy.

I believe we were talking about Cosa Nostra, who's full membership is estimated at under 4000.

You said the terms of their protection racket were "reasonable".

Are you saying that the international bank (Citibank in a previous post of yours) is the equivalent of George Bailey's Savings and Loan, or are you postulating a third entity to the scenario?

Third entity, of course. In the US, someone like Vox could go to an angel or a venture capital group instead of a bank. But apparently this is not nearly as "reasonable" as having some greasy gangster offer you his 'protection' racket.

Do you wish to explain wherein lies the dichotomy, or shall I assume that you believe the only sin to put a bushel basket over your vaunted light is murder, even if it is murder committed by someone several degrees away from you.

Your assumptions thus far have been ridiculously asinine. Try again. Better yet, don't make any assumptions about me - you will almost certainly be wrong.



Anonymous Porky. March 18, 2013 11:14 PM  

I've done business for a few who I found out were "connected". My experience: if you deal with them fair and square and no lying, they will be models of gentlemanly honor. What's not to like? Of course, I'm sure if you act like a lying weasel, then you might find yourself introduced to the less gentlemanly element. None of them brought up the connection directly with me, although one who took a liking to me as a young man offered to have some business enemies of mine dealt with. Graciously declined, never brought up again...

What a beautiful story of "gentlemanly honor". Until, of course, they take a liking to a business owner who considers you to be his enemy. Then it will be you that they offer to "deal with". You think that guy gives a rats ass about you if his boss tells him to pay you a visit?

I understand why protection might seem attractive. But exchanging banksters for thugs is not the solution.

Character is worth cultivating.



Anonymous rycamor March 18, 2013 11:43 PM  

Lesbian Dorito Night March 18, 2013 9:23 PM

VD--They're no angels [the Mafia], but they're not soulless monsters like the Eurofascists.

There is no moral continuum for evil.


If you are a Christian, I would ask you to consider actually reading the Bible. Each one shall be judged "according to his deeds." The picture we get of both heaven and hell is that the rewards or punishments do indeed fit the deeds. Yes, you might get your heavenly fire escape, but don't imagine a Christian who lives a completely useless life will get the same reward as a Hudson Taylor or William Wilberforce. Likewise the I doubt the unrepentant whose worst crime is knocking over the local 7-11 will get the same eternal punishment as the Hitlers and Stalins of the world.

My how some people get the vapours...

Jesus ate and drank with tax-gatherers and sinners. Oops.

Anonymous rycamor March 19, 2013 12:00 AM  

Porky. March 18, 2013 11:14 PM

What a beautiful story of "gentlemanly honor". Until, of course, they take a liking to a business owner who considers you to be his enemy. Then it will be you that they offer to "deal with". You think that guy gives a rats ass about you if his boss tells him to pay you a visit?


For one thing, I had no way of knowing whether he was joking or testing me (I suspect a little of both). It was just a situation where someone wasn't paying what they owed me and he said "Ryc, I've got some guys who can deal with this for you, if you want." It's not like in the movies, as VD patiently tried to explain to you. And "deal with" does not necessarily mean violence or even the threat of violence. There are plenty of options for the more sophisticated.

As for the people who have actually robbed me by not paying me, they have always tended to be the most complete moral preeners, generally evangelical Christians or liberals.

I understand why protection might seem attractive. But exchanging banksters for thugs is not the solution.

Did I ever ask for or receive protection? No. False dichotomizing again, I see.

My worst crime was to help the guy with some computer and data management issues for his investment column which was syndicated all over the country. My knowledge of his actions actually included some quite positive things such as uncovering investment fraud, for which he received death threats.

If I committed a sin somewhere in there, I'm sure it is far from my worst.

Anonymous Porky March 19, 2013 12:26 AM  

It's not like in the movies, as VD patiently tried to explain to you. And "deal with" does not necessarily mean violence or even the threat of violence. There are plenty of options for the more sophisticated.

No need to be patronizing. I understand how intimidation schemes work and how they are necessary in certain societies.

I just don't think they are necessary in all societies. They certainly shouldn't be embraced as "reasonable". I don't recall hearing about widespread protection rackets in early US history. Certainly not like Sicily where 80% of businesses live under protection intimidation.

What's the solution? Simple.

Character. Be a man of character. Fight your own battles. Let your word be your bond. Stand up for the widow and the fatherless.

If your going to slit throats it better be for something more damn important than a bad business deal.

Blogger tz March 19, 2013 8:14 AM  

I can only imagine a different scene - in 300 where the Persian representative is trying to buy off the Spartans.

We'll see if this one ends with Cypress rejecting the sell-out to the empire.

Anonymous Loki of Asgard March 19, 2013 8:49 AM  

Your assumptions thus far have been ridiculously asinine. Try again. Better yet, don't make any assumptions about me - you will almost certainly be wrong.

The "you don't know me" defence. How original. Very well, I shall try again:

You have never actually given this matter any deep thought before it was written about in this post. You have a general idea of how you think a Christian should conduct himself, which you have internalised without examining. (I give you credit for not being in favour of worldliness, but I digress.)

Vox wrote this post, at least half in jest, and you demonstrated a perfect "knee-jerk" reaction. As with any reflex, it does not fully reach the brain before it fires. Now you are scrambling to justify your reaction, and, failing to put together anything better than "but you SHOULDN'T!" you are resorting to insults.

If you coordinate your flailing, someone might mistake it for free-spirited dancing.

Anonymous Porky March 19, 2013 9:50 AM  

You have never actually given this matter any deep thought before it was written about in this post

Hey, another incorrect assumption from the resident buffoon. What a shock. A shock I tell you.

Anonymous Loki of Asgard March 19, 2013 10:53 AM  

Hey, another incorrect assumption from the resident buffoon. What a shock. A shock I tell you.

Another response that brilliantly sums up thus:

"Nuh-UH! Well, you're stupid! Yah yah!"

How can I do battle with such a witty warrior?

Anonymous Porky March 19, 2013 12:54 PM  

How can I do battle with such a witty warrior?

By all appearances you can't. Kudos for coming to this realization.

Look, dummy, it's no more complicated than this: Jesus dined with whores and tax-collectors. Jesus loved the whores and the tax-collectors. He didn't sleep with the whores and he didn't become business partners with the tax-collectors. He was in the world, not of the world.

Capiche? If you can't grok Sunday School 101 then you should just keep quiet.

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