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Thursday, April 04, 2013

Mailvox: combatting ignorance

Phoenician, in his imitable style, can't even understand Wikipedia when he quotes it:
"The 2000 Equality amendment to the Military Service law states that "The right of women to serve in any role in the IDF is equal to the right of men." As of now, 88% to 92% of all roles in the IDF are open to female candidates, while women can be found in 69% of all positions. [...]

A combat option for women is the Caracal Battalion, which is a highly operational force that is made up of 70 percent female soldiers. The unit undergoes training like any combat infantry. The IDF commando K9 unit, Oketz, also drafts females as elite combat soldiers."


You're a moron, Dipshit.
I do so enjoy when Pharyngulans comment here.  All they ever manage to do is publicly demonstrate that their IQs are at least two standard deviations below mine.  In this case, he clearly fails to understand the significance of the fact that 8 to 12 percent of the roles in the IDF are closed to women; those are the actual combat roles.  Women in the IDF are simply not permitted to serve in any combat role.  They haven't served in them since 1948. They are allowed to train for combat, but they are not permitted to actually perform any combat role for the very reasons I originally cited and more.

"Women serve in support and combat support roles in the IDF, recently they have been allowed additional options but they still do not serve in active combat.  Around the world there has been some discussion about whether or not women should serve in active front-line combat. In Israel it is clear that despite the vast contribution of women in the military, active combat is not an option. This decision is based on the physical and biological differences between men and women but also for moral reasons. As Michal, a combat fitness instructor in the IDF, says, "No one wants to even think of the possibility of an Israeli girl falling into the hands of the enemy." Our history is already filled with too many such stories of atrocities.

The Israeli military has always combined the practically of combat with the morality of our Jewish way of life. For political reasons women's groups have tried to break down barriers but the simple fact is that physically women are not capable of doing the job men do. There was an attempt to integrate women in the Search and Rescue units but it was discovered that a great deal of physical damage was caused to them as a result of the increased effort. Even the girls who were integrated into the anti-aircraft unit suffered great physical damage during the long hikes. They suffered more than 30% more stress factors than the boys."


Wake Up is dubious:
Congratulations on your exploits in Tekken.
Yeah, it wasn't a video game, it was a similarly dubious active-duty Marine officer with significant combat experience.  He doesn't mock the martial arts any more.  Nor would you if you tried to last even one minute against me or any other Dragon from my old dojo.  I've seen no shortage of doubters and mockers.  No one ever remained that way after stepping onto the mats and experiencing what a combination of speed, strength, experience, and training can do to the average tough guy.  We never did any choreographed fight demonstrations either.  We simply gave people a pair of gloves and told them to take their best shot.  Most of them did exactly the same thing.  Step-step-cock-grimace-BIG rear hand.  The rest tried the midsection tackle.

RealMatt, on the other hand, is simply misinformed:
The odds of a person trained in every single martial art ever known to man, with little to no real life fight experience, performing well in an actual fight, are very low.
Totally false.  It depends upon the school and the training.  The first time I got into an actual fight after I'd had a few years of training, it took me about ten seconds to incapacitate the guy with an arm bar after breaking his nose.  There is a very real difference between the fighting schools and the non-fighting schools.  I've been knocked out and had bones from my nose to my toes broken in training, whereas in the four real fights I was in, no one ever even managed to touch me.  In my experience, heavy contact sparring with someone who is trained is a lot harder than real fighting, as untrained brawlers not only tend to present a myriad of open targets, they advertise what they are going to do.

For example, they have a tendency to lead with their face, which is when the guy cocks his rear arm back as he leans or actually steps forward.  This is a very, very bad mistake against a trained fighter and usually results in eating a jab.  The instinctive grapplers, on the other hand, like to tackle at the waist.  That is how the aforementioned Marine managed to put himself in position to get his neck snapped so quickly.  Go with the flow, drop the arms, slide the left up and over, grab, twist, and lock.  Then ride to the ground, but carefully.

However, most men tend to start with punches, so my preference is usually to sidestep and catch the arm as it comes at me, pull it past and pivot to either a) slam the guy face-first into a wall if it is there, or b) keep turning and put him down on the ground in an armbar if it is not.  If the wall is there, I jam his arm up high behind his back while he's stunned, then turn him and sweep his legs to put him down.  Then I put one knee on the back of his neck while keeping his arm pinned high. I also try to speak reassuringly, telling him to calm down, it's all right, and so forth. They can't do anything in that position, but you don't want them to panic and cause you to break something.  The combination of the shock, the pain, and the helplessness usually causes them to relax in short order.

The only time this didn't work without a problem was the second time, because I stopped with the guy pinned against the wall.  He seemed calm enough, so I stepped back and let him go, at which point he lunged at my bouncer friend.  That was how I learned not to stop until the guy is not only temporarily incapacitated, but down as well.

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115 Comments:

Anonymous Idle Spectator April 04, 2013 4:33 AM  

I beat a woman savagely with my penis once. She was asking for it.

Anonymous Krul April 04, 2013 4:59 AM  

In this case, he clearly fails to understand the significance of the fact that 8 to 12 percent of the roles in the IDF are closed to women; those are the actual combat roles.

It's an interesting fact of the modern military that while all or nearly all military members must be prepared for combat, only a very small number actually expect to do so as part of their job. The vast majority of servicemen and women work to direct, train, equip, transport, feed, inform, and provide medical care for those few who are the tip of the spear.

Anonymous James May April 04, 2013 5:40 AM  

I once robbed two little girls at their lemonade stand with a Thompson machine gun. I did 7 years in prison. Now I confine my anti-social behaviors to small rats and stick insects. Stick insects are particularly easy to beat the crap out of.

Blogger Shimshon April 04, 2013 5:59 AM  

Israelis have enough difficulty when a male soldier like Gilad Schalit is kidnapped. No one would be able to tolerate a girl in the same situation.

Blogger Shimshon April 04, 2013 6:02 AM  

Vox, MPAI and don't stop to think that actual combat soldiers are really a very small portion of an entire military structure.

Anonymous The master April 04, 2013 6:05 AM  

Surprising I didn't use my vast martial arts training recently in a scuffle I recently had. The anger was flowing and was letting the dark side of the force flow, presence of mind wasn't there. Instinctively my Aikido training kicked in and was able to take down the much larger opponent 6'4 +250. Had both thumbs in the eye sockets but didn't feel like going to jail. I am really a nice guy though.

Blogger Rantor April 04, 2013 6:08 AM  

I took two years of Kenpo back in High School. I never took a belt test, just learned and sparred a lot. A few years later a slightly drunk marine pulled a knife on me. Instinctively my foot flew into his knife hand disarming the guy. He then jumped at me and we both went down rolling down a staircase. That ended the fight with no real damage to anyone. I am certain of two things, my limited Karate training enabled the kick, and as we were fighting I saw several opportunities to do real damage to my opponent, but didn't need to.

25 years later, I have no illusion that much of that training is still with me. So I have been thinking about joining a studio nearby, there is a Krav Maga place not far from the house. Any thoughts on that martial art?

Anonymous The master April 04, 2013 6:16 AM  

"However, most men tend to start with punches, so my preference is usually to sidestep and catch the arm as it comes at me, pull it past and pivot to either a) slam the guy face-first into a wall if it is there..."

That strategy probably won't work on an experienced fighter. Just saying.

Anonymous Logan April 04, 2013 6:40 AM  

The master, interesting that you mentioned Aikido. Some people who train in mixed martial arts such as Matt Thornton of Straight Blast Gym have expressed skepticism as to the effectiveness of some martial arts such as Aikido because they don't train using what he calls "aliveness", which is the view that your training partners should always be resisting you when you train, thus simulating how a real street confrontation would play out.

To my knowledge, the training partners of practitioners of Aikido cooperate with them when they perform their techniques, which is what Thornton criticizes since to him it's not how a realistic fight would happen. How would you defend Aikido against this criticism?

Anonymous Jeigh Di April 04, 2013 6:43 AM  

If I recall correctly, another reason the Israelis don't send their women into combat is that they found out the hard way that their foes would rather fight to the death than surrender to a woman.

Anonymous AWOL April 04, 2013 6:47 AM  

This post takes the concept of an "internet tough guy" to a whole new level.

Anonymous VD April 04, 2013 6:48 AM  

That strategy probably won't work on an experienced fighter. Just saying.

Of course not. An experienced fighter throws short, choppy jabs, he doesn't telegraph a monster rear-hand punch that gives you time to finish your drink and set it down before he nicely extends and locks his arm for you.

But then, most experienced fighters don't start fights either.

Anonymous The master April 04, 2013 6:52 AM  

"How would you defend Aikido against this criticism?"

Muscle memory and proper unconscious reaction is what all styles of martial arts are aiming at especially in the beginning. Fighting and especially street fighting as VD points out is an inherently very sloppy affair because you have many variables in a street fight from lighting, terrain, different strength and skills levels of your opponent, weapons usage and so on. Aikido is counterintuively one of the better arts to train the body in the use of leverage and coordination to effectively deal with the many vagaries of the street fight, of course there are other styles that are effective as well. I respectively disagree with Mr.Thornton.

Anonymous VD April 04, 2013 6:52 AM  

This post takes the concept of an "internet tough guy" to a whole new level.

True, because clearly everyone who discusses anything on the Internet is an imposter. Only people who say nothing about anything could possibly know what they are not talking about.

There is nothing tough about taking down untrained people. It's not even difficult. What is tough is getting up after you get knocked down, or continuing to fight when your bones are broken.

Anonymous The master April 04, 2013 6:55 AM  

"But then, most experienced fighters don't start fights either."

They have been known to when honor is at stake.

Anonymous VD April 04, 2013 6:58 AM  

Some people who train in mixed martial arts such as Matt Thornton of Straight Blast Gym have expressed skepticism as to the effectiveness of some martial arts such as Aikido because they don't train using what he calls "aliveness", which is the view that your training partners should always be resisting you when you train, thus simulating how a real street confrontation would play out.

I tend to agree with this. My training was both mixed and fully resistant. Aikido is one of the more useful styles, in terms of the applicability of its techniques, but a trained mixed martial artist is probably going to wipe out an aikido practitioner who has trained for a similar length of time.

I only fought two or three aikido guys. They were better than the tae kwon do guys or the judo guys, but I didn't have any particular problem with them. I'd rather fight an aikido guy than a wrestler.

Anonymous VD April 04, 2013 6:59 AM  

So I have been thinking about joining a studio nearby, there is a Krav Maga place not far from the house. Any thoughts on that martial art?

I think it is a bit overrated, but probably worthwhile. The IDF thing is meaningless, but gives it a bit of glamor.

Anonymous The master April 04, 2013 7:01 AM  

"To my knowledge, the training partners of practitioners of Aikido cooperate with them when they perform their techniques".

Many martial art styles follow that template as well so to single out Aikido is not correct.

Anonymous VryeDenker April 04, 2013 7:06 AM  

I'd rather fight an aikido guy than a wrestler.

True that. You can't do a double-barrel-over-the-top-spinning-moon-kick if you're head is shoved up your own butthole.

I say that as an accomplished former (not olympic) Taekwondo instructor.

Mind you, TKD is fantastic in a sloppy bar brawl. If you have the speed and power and don't also telegraph your intentions.

Anonymous The master April 04, 2013 7:07 AM  

"I'd rather fight an aikido guy than a wrestler."

What really works is when you know both. Like me.

Anonymous VryeDenker April 04, 2013 7:08 AM  

I think it is a bit overrated, but probably worthwhile. The IDF thing is meaningless, but gives it a bit of glamor.

Similarly, Taekwondo is the martial art of the two Koreas' militaries. Make of that what you will.

Anonymous The master April 04, 2013 7:12 AM  

Then it's easy to "bind the strongman" no matter his size ;-)

Anonymous Lulabelle April 04, 2013 7:22 AM  

My son has been taking aikido for a few years. What other martial arts would be best for him to take also? (If you could choose just one).

Anonymous realmatt April 04, 2013 7:29 AM  

I'm not misinformed. Just a poor self editor. I know all about your dojo past and the fact that it was full contact and therefore counts as real fight experience despite there being less on the line emotionally than in a sudden bar fight.

I've seen several scuffles between men trained to box and men claiming to be martial artists and the boxers won each time. I suspect their full contact sparring experience and knowledge of what actually works for them was the deciding factor. If children in karate classes were permitted to actually attempt to kick the crap out of each other I suspect the boys would immediately quit upon realizing marching back and forth while blocking invisible enemies and kicking the air in unnatural poses throwing you off balance is no way to defend yourself in a fight.

Not knowing what you're actually capable of doing is debilitating.

And here I thought I was supporting your argument in the previous thread....

Anonymous VryeDenker April 04, 2013 7:30 AM  

My son has been taking aikido for a few years. What other martial arts would be best for him to take also? (If you could choose just one).

Mixed Martial Arts is all the rage these days. It also carries much more streetcred than the usual suspects. It's also the closest to reality you're likely to find outside of police or military training. Alternatively, Jiujitsu.

Anonymous HongKongCharlie April 04, 2013 7:33 AM  

The Master, does your mother know you are at the keyboard again! Ahh, the inimitable style of the basement dwellers.

HKC

Anonymous VD April 04, 2013 7:34 AM  

Similarly, Taekwondo is the martial art of the two Koreas' militaries. Make of that what you will.

Aside from getting my nose broken once in a ring fight that I won, I never had any problem with Taekwondo fighters. They seldom know how to use their hands and don't know what to do when you crash your shoulder into them every time they start to pick a foot off the ground.

And they like to spin, which is incredibly stupid. We would just kick them right in the back as soon as they started that nonsense. My Dad once came to a ring fight and commented on how funny it was to watch a contest between us and a Taekwondo dojo. He described it like this:"the guys in white would be doing all this moving and kicking and leaping around, the guy in black would sort of twitch, then the guy in white would go down."

We did have one taekwondo black belt who joined us and worked up to a black belt in our style. He pretty much kicked my ass for four straight years. He had this great hook kick that would shoot out past your head, you'd think you'd avoided a sidekick, then it would snap back and catch you in the back of the head with his heel. He probably knocked me down with that at least ten times.

I was so happy the one time I managed to duck it, then catch him with a front kick in the stomach while he was still open. He just laughed.

Anonymous VryeDenker April 04, 2013 7:39 AM  

I suspect the boys would immediately quit upon realizing marching back and forth while blocking invisible enemies and kicking the air in unnatural poses throwing you off balance is no way to defend yourself in a fight.

You can blame ichiban karate dojo's for that. You can't reasonably level the same criticism against dojo's in Japan or dojang's in Korea. For them it's actually learning to fight better, while in the west it's all about showboating. Kyukushin being the exception.

Anonymous Lulabelle April 04, 2013 7:39 AM  

"Mixed Martial Arts is all the rage these days. It also carries much more streetcred than the usual suspects. It's also the closest to reality you're likely to find outside of police or military training. Alternatively, Jiujitsu."

Thanks, VryeDenker

Anonymous VD April 04, 2013 7:41 AM  

I'm not misinformed. Just a poor self editor. I know all about your dojo past and the fact that it was full contact and therefore counts as real fight experience despite there being less on the line emotionally than in a sudden bar fight.

Ah, I see. Well, I wouldn't count heavy or even full contact training as real fighting. It's still limited in ways that real fighting simply isn't. For instance, we weren't allowed to use my favorite technique of "the wall as weapon", and after a spate of broken ankles, we couldn't even use our elbows to properly block kicks anymore.

It actually got kind of funny at one point. You'd see guys in a sidestance with their guard too high, leaving their sides wide open as bait, while the other guy was afraid to throw the obvious sidekick for fear of getting his ankle broken between the hip and elbow when he stuck it in there. It just looked stupid, with guys practically chasing after high kicks that were nowhere near them with their elbows.

Anonymous The master April 04, 2013 7:41 AM  

"My son has been taking aikido for a few years. What other martial arts would be best for him to take also? (If you could choose just one)."

Jeet Kune Do or even MMA training would do just as well. The MMA training is more widely available and would complement his Aikido training. It's good to know different styles that are contradictory in nature and complement one another as it makes you a more well rounded fighter. But make sure the instructor is a good one and not just trying to get his class full of students. There is alot of bad instructors out there nowadays just trying to make a buck. Also a good instructor will make sure he doesn't injure himself which is very important for growing young men and will teach him ethics in the proper use of his training.

Anonymous Keeg April 04, 2013 7:44 AM  

Have any of you ever heard of bujinkan jujitsu? I did it for about a year several years ago, but dropped out because the instructor wasn't that good and because my work schedule went crazy-busy for quite a while. I wouldn't mind starting it up again. Wikipedia explains it better than a newb like me would:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bujinkan

Anonymous VD April 04, 2013 7:44 AM  

My son has been taking aikido for a few years. What other martial arts would be best for him to take also? (If you could choose just one).

I would look at an MMA school as well. Just ask if they are a fighting school or not. If they give you some song and dance about how they teach "control", look elsewhere. Control is martial arts-speak for playing tag. Basically, ask if they have a sparring night, and go watch. If people are actually getting hit and knocked down occasionally, it's a fighting school.

Anonymous VryeDenker April 04, 2013 7:47 AM  

I think TKD's problem has always been that it is so beautiful. You tend to forget that the aim is to knock the other guy out, not challenge him to a dance-off. I made the same mistakes when I was younger, but the wisdom that comes with age taught me that speed and timing is what counts, not how good you look.

Anonymous VD April 04, 2013 7:49 AM  

Jeet Kune Do or even MMA training would do just as well.

Our style was an offshoot of JKD. Mixed Wing Chun, Shorin-Ryu, and Kali taught by a guy who'd been a champion wrestler in high school. We could have done more wrestling, I think, but it was good otherwise. The best thing was that he brought in experienced fighters from every style and school he could find for our weekly sparring nights, so we got to experience almost everything from boxing and wrestling to real Muy Thai.

You never knew who would be invited. I wouldn't have been surprised to show up and find a fencing team there.

Anonymous Lulabelle April 04, 2013 7:50 AM  

Thanks for the responses - The master and VD.

Anonymous VD April 04, 2013 7:52 AM  

I think TKD's problem has always been that it is so beautiful. You tend to forget that the aim is to knock the other guy out, not challenge him to a dance-off.

Yep. Our sensei used to point out when you guys were "posing". They'd throw a kick, it would miss, and they'd sort of hold it there for a split-second to admire how pretty it was. And they were pretty, I wish I could have thrown kicks like that.

But instead, I just got inside and chopped them up with hands.

Anonymous VryeDenker April 04, 2013 7:53 AM  

"Control" means exactly two things:

1. An instructor "controls" a fight by stopping it when it is obvious someone is about to lose a tooth.
2. A fighter "controls" his aggression by focusing on tight moves and well-aimed attacks, instead of flailing his arms and legs around like a rag doll.

Anonymous VD April 04, 2013 8:02 AM  

"Control" means exactly two things:

No, not in the sense I'm talking about. Schools that only do light or no contact often claim that they teach control, as opposed to contact. By which they mean that they lightly tag each other when "sparring", the theory being that if you touch someone, you could have hit them harder. It's not just as good as contact, it's actually better, you see, because controlling the force and pulling your punches is more disciplined than simply throwing them hard.

Of course, they ignore that this creates a totally false reality from the start, where the person touched simply continues instead of reeling backwards or doubling over.

Anonymous VryeDenker April 04, 2013 8:04 AM  

Yep. Our sensei used to point out when you guys were "posing". They'd throw a kick, it would miss, and they'd sort of hold it there for a split-second to admire how pretty it was. And they were pretty, I wish I could have thrown kicks like that.

But instead, I just got inside and chopped them up with hands.


I always taught my students to not throw a kick or punch unless they mean it. It shouldn't be possible to dodge a kick or punch unless you did something wrong. A good attack can only be blocked and countered. If there's enough time to duck under a kick or sidestep it, it was probably thrown from too far away, was too slow or the timing was way off.

Anonymous VryeDenker April 04, 2013 8:07 AM  

I probably should rather have said that "control" is only supposed to mean the two things. I mentioned.

Anonymous stg58/Animal Mother April 04, 2013 8:15 AM  

A Wing Chun school that spars is a good place to go. The Leung Ting guys are a little hesitant to do that. Some WT instructors are adapting the art to make it useful in an MMA ring, and emphasizing street fights as well. One of the Houston instructors is including ground fighting in his training.

If you live in Houston and want to check it out, let me know.

Blogger Nate April 04, 2013 8:16 AM  

"Take your best shot."

The proper response to this is to relax... take a step back... and assume the fighting stance of an experienced fighter.

This communicates some very important information.

This is not of course how I handle such things. I simply never put myself in a position to hear those words. If I were to hear them... I already screwed up.

Rule Number 1) Don't put yourself in that situation.

Background:

Everyone thinks fights start when someone says "go". If you look carefully... Vox has this same mentality buried deep in there. There is some trigger in his mind that tells him its now time to fight. It does not mean literally someone saying "go". For some people its only after a long shouting match and posing ritual. For others its after the shoving. Now situational awareness will put people's guard up. But there is still a decision point before which they are not going to throw.

Rule number 2) End the fight before the voice in their head says, "go".

This requires a level of ferocity, explosiveness, and pure damned meaness that most folks don't have. Which is why rule number 1 is rule number 1. That's why you should never hear "take your best shot". Because your best shot is always the one they don't see coming.

Look we're grownups people. You should be carrying at all times. You can't afford to get into fights when you're carrying. Because if you loose your weapon you may loose your life as well.

Stay out of these situations.

Anonymous stg58/Animal Mother April 04, 2013 8:20 AM  

I agree with Nate.

Blogger Nate April 04, 2013 8:27 AM  

" He had this great hook kick that would shoot out past your head, you'd think you'd avoided a sidekick, then it would snap back and catch you in the back of the head with his heel. He probably knocked me down with that at least ten times."

That's a classic TKD kick. They start teaching it to at the yellow belt level. Very few are ever good enough with it to make it effective though. They also love the double and triple kicks.. through a quick side kick that you dodge or if they are really fast you have to block.. then the leg you thought you blocked shoots up and catches your chin. Again most aren't ever fast enough to make it work... but there are sound principles behind parts of TKD. They just require a lot of athleticism to pull off.

The spinning however.. is bullshit.

The Boy dominates at sparring at TKD... because I taught him to only throw the strikes he can through fast, and hard. So its all front kicks, punches, and sidekicks. occasionally he pulls the double kick thing.

The TKD dojo here is all about counter-attacks... which i don't believe is typical for the martial art. Let the opponent wade it... rotate and punish...rotate and punish.

Anonymous William Colby April 04, 2013 8:28 AM  

I remember someone asking a former special ops guy whether learning krav maga was worth it and he told the guy it's better to learn judo instead. Of course he said a handgun is always your best self defense anyway.
The funniest 'fight' I saw was between a relatively experienced boxer and his friend. They were play sparring and the boxer grew bored and simply knocked away his friend's hands from guarding his face and jabbed him on the nose. His friend burst out laughing and gave up immediately concluding he could never beat him.

Anonymous stg58/Animal Mother April 04, 2013 8:31 AM  

Wasn't your body found in a creek a few years ago?

Anonymous VD April 04, 2013 8:42 AM  

If you look carefully... Vox has this same mentality buried deep in there. There is some trigger in his mind that tells him its now time to fight.

This is true. One thing worth keeping in mind, however, is that fighters who are actively training, by which I mean have sparred within the last 2-3 weeks, have hair-trigger reflexes that are literally faster than they can think. There was a big difference between my reflexes when I was actively sparring and when I'd had as little as a month off. Maintaining those reflexes is why even very experienced fighters continue to spar regularly.

It doesn't mean you can't catch them off-guard, but it is really, really hard. Even if I was in top form now, you couldn't pay me to try to take on a few of the top Dragons even given a free and unexpected shot. Unless, of course, it was with something bigger than a 9mm.

Anonymous stg58/Animal Mother April 04, 2013 8:45 AM  

.45 ACP. The choice of kings.

Blogger Nate April 04, 2013 8:46 AM  

There is another really good reason to stay out of these situations. A lot of MMA fighters look like total dorks. BJ Penn for example. he looks like some 160 pound bald accountant. You could totally see yourself starting something with a guy like that.

Then you'd wake up in traction 3 weeks later.

Anderson Silva... same thing. There would be youtube videos of him knocking you out and you'd hear about it the rest of your life. You'd be the Miss South Carolina of bar fights.

There are very very dangerous people in this world... and a lot of them don't look it.

Blogger Nate April 04, 2013 8:48 AM  

"One thing worth keeping in mind, however, is that fighters who are actively training, by which I mean have sparred within the last 2-3 weeks, have hair-trigger reflexes that are literally faster than they can think."

Agree.

Rule number 1 is rule number 1 for a reason.

Blogger Joe A. April 04, 2013 8:54 AM  

Hm. Maybe I'll just keep a taser handy. Ya...

I remember this fellow from high school who got into a fight with a kid astronomically larger than him (fat as hell). The fatty actually picked up a desk (one of those one-piecers)to wield but such grand displays were silly since the thin fella just jabbed him in the face a couple of times to diffuse the fatty during the wind-up.


Anonymous JartStar April 04, 2013 9:29 AM  

It is ironic that my brother and I begged our parents to take martial arts and they refused thinking it would turn us into violent psychopaths, while instead full contact fighting would have made us think twice about getting into fights. It was Churchianity at its finest: fighting in any form is unchristian, and the dojo likely teaches double secret Eastern spirituality which would turn us into devil worshipers or such.

Blogger The Deuce April 04, 2013 9:30 AM  

As of now, 88% to 92% of all roles in the IDF are open to female candidates...

What a completely meaningless number for the purpose Phoenician wants to use it. It doesn't tell you what percentage of the military is in what role. It could well be that 80% of the roles consist of finely grained variations of desk jockey, and that 80% of the military is in the 8-12% of roles that are combat positions.


...while women can be found in 69% of all positions.

And there was see an inconvenient fact for the feminized drones. There are, apparently, several roles that women are eligible for, and yet are completely absent from for some mysterious reason. Now why could that possibly be?

Anonymous scoobius dubious April 04, 2013 9:31 AM  

from the Dept. of Don't Try This At Home Dept. ...

My own martial arts training consists of ice hockey and dance. That sounds silly, and it is, and in a sense I'm joking, but I do have a point to make, sort of. How you look to the rest of the world is, or can be, very different from how you see yourself. I'm not a tough guy in the least, and I wouldn't hurt a fly (and couldn't hurt anything bigger than a fly) but I've learned how to make myself appear intimidating (and it isn't about wearing a motorcycle jacket with spikes on it). And so, the last time I actually had to throw a punch was before I turned twenty.

Granted this defense won't work against determined criminals, mad dogs, or sociopaths -- and for them, real training is the best bet, I'm just too old to start now. But most normal people who for some stupid reason have found themselves starting a fight, can be easily defused with psy-ops. Most fights simply don't have to happen. I can't tell you how many violent situations I've defused simply by accurately assessing the opponent's psychology. I once (true story) talked a guy out of shooting someone else. I did it, believe it or not, by talking about Isaac Newton. (Maybe I bored him out of doing it, who knows. But at least nobody got shot.)

Anonymous Andy April 04, 2013 9:40 AM  

Sit on their heads to incapacitate them. It works with sheep at lambing time.

Blogger IM2L844 April 04, 2013 9:42 AM  

Most fights simply don't have to happen.

This is a point my teacher emphasized often. There is a distinct psychological advantage to knowing your are in the right and have exhausted all other options.

Anonymous scoobius dubious April 04, 2013 9:47 AM  

from the Dept. of Don't Try This At Home Dept. ...

This story is a one-off, there's no moral or instructive value to it, but it's funny anyway so I'll tell it. It's actually (you'll see this at the end) one of those I-Can't-Believe-I-Really-Got-To-Do-This affairs.

I was in this bar one time (aren't we all), and I wound up, against my better judgement, getting into some very sharp words with this other dude. He kept coming after me, and I kept putting him to the mat verbally in this sort of roundabout way whereby he knew he'd been pwned but there wasn't an actual insult he could point to. This was making him flustered, and he started adopting this ready-to-fight posture. So I adopted this very casual, unconcerned, non-defensive posture, but all the time watching his moves very carefully. I gave him the impression I was one of those people who Might Do Anything, which had him a little spooked. Finally I got tired of toying with him, and decided to go. As I was leaving, I had to cross this sort of large empty space, sort of like an empty dance floor, to get to the door. When I was about thirty paces away, with my back turned, he started yelling more insults at me, so everybody in the place could hear. I knew then he was a coward, so I also knew I could do whatever I wanted.

I stopped in my tracks, and stood perfectly still with my back turned for like thirty seconds. At this point, everyone in the place was watching, wondering what would happen next. I smiled inwardly, because I couldn't believe I was being handed this opportunity in real life.

And then... SLOWLY I TURNED! (do you know the vaudeville ref?)

Then, when I was facing him, I again stood there, perfectly still, looking straight at him. I waited about twenty seconds, then started walking slowly back towards him.

He ran out the back entrance.

I got a standing ovation from the crowd.

Anonymous dh April 04, 2013 9:55 AM  

However, most men tend to start with punches, so my preference is usually to sidestep and catch the arm as it comes at me, pull it past and pivot to either a) slam the guy face-first into a wall if it is there
I have seen an almost identical take down in person. It is scary and not a little sad to see a persons self-created and inflated identity spun, pivoted, and slammed into a wall.

VD, how long into your training were you able to really control your emotions? I have found many people who are attacked and have some training (but not mastery level proficiency) can quickly lose their temper when actually attacked. The result is usually more damage to the attacker than anticipated.

Anonymous Samuel Scott April 04, 2013 10:04 AM  

Rantor April 04, 2013 6:08 AM,

So I have been thinking about joining a studio nearby, there is a Krav Maga place not far from the house. Any thoughts on that martial art?

Krav Maga, if you don't know, is an Israeli martial-art focused on disabling an opponent on the battlefield as quickly as possible and then getting the f--- out of there. (The joke is that Krav Maga is all cheap fighting: kicks to the groin, jabbing the eyes, and so on.)

Here's an example of a training video showing Israeli girls in the army what to do if someone tries to kidnap them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=1RwGt9GFGyA&NR=1

Anonymous dh April 04, 2013 10:09 AM  

Look we're grownups people. You should be carrying at all times. You can't afford to get into fights when you're carrying. Because if you loose your weapon you may loose your life as well.

Stay out of these situations.


This is the flip side of the "polite society is an armed society". Any escalation of hand-to-hand violence *may* be met with a greater escalation, one that you have no natural defense to.

Anonymous Noah B. April 04, 2013 10:13 AM  

"Unless, of course, it was with something bigger than a 9mm."

It's all about shot placement, bro.

Anonymous Myrddin April 04, 2013 10:13 AM  

I train in Krav with a TKD guy. He's been sparring for twenty years, I for one. So when we spar, I mostly serve as a stationary target.

But he spins. And when he spins, Bam. Kidney, knee, done.

Krav's advantages are it's quick to pick up, and it focuses on sparring under stress. In my experience, nearly any martial art can equal or outdo Krav if ithe students also focus on sparring. But very few do these days.

Anonymous Darth Toolpodicus April 04, 2013 10:22 AM  

The gulf between a trained fighter and even a good street-fighter is huge. Sure, its "made-for-TV"...but the MTV show Bully Beatdown: where they pit a street bully du-jour against a professional MMA fighter, is enlightening. In a nut shell: MMA guys roll these guys up like a newspaper.

Re: TKD/TSD...I always considered those styles better than no training at all...but like some "esoteric" styles (ninjitsu) they are much more effective and spectacular against untrained or compromised opponents. Every once in a while you'll run into someone who can

Anytime both feet leave the floor or your back is turned you are vulnerable. I used to take isshinryu when I was younger. The philosophy was simple, no kicks much above the waist, short punches, don't over-commit.

Keeping your muscle-memory sharp is key: those movements are stored and executed at reflex speed without conscious thought. They atrophy quickly. Back in the day I was average in the dojo; now I would get owned.

Today I would count on old training and physical strength to carry me over an average street fighter; but against a trained fighter, all that would do is get me KTFO'd harder.

A while back I was working out with a BJJ guy, learning some take-down defense, after a bit, the guy told me flat-out (and this guy benched over 300lbs) "you have no idea how strong you are, I won't battle you straight-up, I'm just going to take you out". Not 2 minutes later (after being rolled around like a chew-toy) my back was halfway through the drywall in the gym room. Lesson learned.

Re: IDF...correct me if I am wrong, but they did try having females in combat decades ago because they found that doing so increased casualties on BOTH sides.


Anonymous The other skeptic April 04, 2013 10:23 AM  

In a free book of non fiction from Baen Tom Kratman wonders in The Amazon's Right Breast whether or not the Caracal Battalion is an elaborate Israeli joke about pussy.

Blogger tz April 04, 2013 10:27 AM  

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/03/sam-harris-muslim-animus

In which Glenn Greenwald who is capable of thought takes on the sycophants of the New Atheists who are not.

My only thought is Greenwald seemed surprised at the shallowness of the reaction. No one here would be.

Anonymous Darth Toolpodicus April 04, 2013 10:30 AM  

That should read: "Re: IDF...correct me if I am wrong, but they did try having females in combat decades ago; however they quickly stopped because they found that doing so increased casualties on BOTH sides."

Blogger Nate April 04, 2013 10:49 AM  

"
This is the flip side of the "polite society is an armed society". Any escalation of hand-to-hand violence *may* be met with a greater escalation, one that you have no natural defense to."

The left's stereotype about folks carrying guns to make them feel tough is exactly wrong. Yes... there are morons out there that are incapable of thinking past the 6 inches in front of their face... but for almost all lawful gun owners.. carrying a gun does not make you feel tough. It does the opposite.

You are keenly aware that you may have to kill someone. Not punch them. Kill them. Now I am fine with it. If I had to... I would put you down without a second hesitation. But I don't want to. I know full well what the implications of that are.

Blogger JACIII April 04, 2013 11:07 AM  

Agreed, Nate.
Sans sidearm situational awareness extends about 3 steps away. With sidearm it's reflexively more like 20 yards and decisions are made three at a time about where to go, where to stop, where to sit. People are observed more critically for demeanor and carriage.

Should I stop here? If I do, what are the chances I will kill someone(s)?

Anonymous JartStar April 04, 2013 11:07 AM  

You are keenly aware that you may have to kill someone. Not punch them. Kill them. Now I am fine with it. If I had to... I would put you down without a second hesitation. But I don't want to. I know full well what the implications of that are.

What's interesting about "stand your ground" laws is that the rate of homicides appears to goes up, but the rate of murders and convictions do not. The evidence tends to support that other violent crimes including murders might go down as people simply kill who is attacking them.

In a way it brings back a bit of frontier justice in which two people, neither of whom are necessarily "bad guys" end up tussling and one ends up dead, but there's no lynch mob at the end as nobody really knows who started it and what it was over exactly.

Anonymous Samuel Scott April 04, 2013 11:09 AM  

The example of the IDF as an argument for or against women in combat is largely irrelevant. Almost all women do their military service as "jobnikim" -- people who work desk jobs such as secretaries or looking at security-camera screens all shift.

Blogger Nate April 04, 2013 11:11 AM  

"Should I stop here? If I do, what are the chances I will kill someone(s)?"

Exactly. This is not a question one asks himself to pretend he's tough. Its a question one contemplates when one weighs the financial ruin and total disruption of normal life for the next decade... setting aside the fact that you have to deal with the fact that you killed someone for the rest of your life.

Anonymous The Next to Last Samurai April 04, 2013 11:19 AM  

OK, never mind the above question.

Anonymous Orion April 04, 2013 11:20 AM  

@Nate

Agreed. I'm not sure if dh has been around or involved in situations where violence was a high probability. From reading current events (most of which are specifically not published by MSM), those intent on mayhem today are often in large groups and more than willing to inflict severe injury with what ever is at hand. Your death, at most, might cause some amusement. Having a hand gun? The mob mentality of "he can't get us all" is quickly trumped by "he might shoot me first, time to split" more often than not.

Anonymous VD April 04, 2013 11:27 AM  

VD, how long into your training were you able to really control your emotions?

About 18 months. I lost my temper when an out-of-control white belt kicked at my knee. I doubled him over with a sidekick to the stomach, which was fine, and then put him down with a cross to the side of the head, which was not. The sensei saw it, then instructed the aforementioned TKD guy to "explain why we don't lose our tempers".

He came at me full-bore and kicked my ass for two solid minutes. Knocked me down somewhere between 10 and 12 times. I learned my lesson.

Anonymous VD April 04, 2013 11:28 AM  

More of a hook than a cross, come to think of it.

Anonymous Sensei April 04, 2013 11:37 AM  

More than a few years of TKD experience here, and as Vox mentioned the hook kick is one of the simpler but more effective moves we have, if done right. TKD requires instinctive-level discernment regarding what kicks you throw out there (spins are a terrible idea 90% of the time at least, but following some combos they're highly effective against somewhat-trained fighters who are trying to block and counter. I'd argue they're unnecessary and purely flashy in a fight against an untrained opponent, if he's not on the ground after the first kick or maybe two, you fail at kicking properly...) Olympic style TKD is pretty useless for fighting, we added a bit of joint-locking and more hand work to our training to round it out better. It is a frightening revelation when one learns how fragile the human body can be...

Blogger Nate April 04, 2013 11:38 AM  

"He came at me full-bore and kicked my ass for two solid minutes. Knocked me down somewhere between 10 and 12 times. I learned my lesson."

How many crescent kicks to the back of the head did you take in that span?

Anonymous cheddarman April 04, 2013 11:52 AM  

I once robbed two little girls at their lemonade stand with a Thompson machine gun. I did 7 years in prison. Now I confine my anti-social behaviors to small rats and stick insects. Stick insects are particularly easy to beat the crap out of. James May

and arguing about the civil war. I am ready for round 2 some time.

sincerely

cheddarman

Blogger Nate April 04, 2013 12:15 PM  

"I am ready for round 2 some time."

Preach.

Anonymous Anonymous April 04, 2013 12:49 PM  

As Samuel Scott said, Krav Maga is all about disabling an opponent and getting away. It is not sparring or fair fighting.
You will see in the videos where actual contact is avoided, as it would directly do serious harm to the opponent.

I took level one, and what i remember was the we worked on fitness to warm up and then lots of practice kicking to the nuts, kneeing in the face, and elbow to the gut and chin (when they are behind you).

Hopefull they hit the ground after a couple of these hits to soft points, you run...or kick them hard a few times to slow down or stop pursuit

Anonymous Darth Toolpodicus April 04, 2013 12:54 PM  

Vox, are you a southpaw? I have novice question(s) for you: the grapplers definitely want to go for the takedown, BJJ guys seem to go for the waist, where the wrestler seems to go a little lower and from below. Have you ever faced a good take-down guy and how hard is is to defend?

Do you go for neck/head control to steer them away, go for the sprawl, or try to meet them with a knee? My instinct is for the knee, although my BJJ guy says that is easier said than done in real life.

Anonymous E. PERLINE April 04, 2013 1:01 PM  

It was interesting to read about VD's experience in the martial arts. when I was a young man I was interested in boxing and I volunteered to take part in a Navy boxing tournament. I was never matched, but my coach taught me how to punch hard by throwing my body weight behind my arms.

For the last few years I followed MMA. My friends don't watch it because they think it's it is more punishing than boxing. I don't agree. I think boxing subjects the brain to more concussions.

I'm concerned with with how a human being would fight if there were no rules at all. Probably it's verboten in all martial arts but I have invented a method where we could use fingernails.

An animal's nails are compact with its feet and therefore are strong. But a human's nails grow at the end of long fingers and therefore are weak. The solution is to hold four fingers of each hand pressed tightly together in a curled position. Thumbs held against the index finger bolster this natural weapon. I have invented several cross moves for it. I'm sure you can too. also.

Anonymous dh April 04, 2013 1:19 PM  

He came at me full-bore and kicked my ass for two solid minutes. Knocked me down somewhere between 10 and 12 times. I learned my lesson.

This is an ongoing struggle. Especially with any contact to my head or face I tend to lose my cool and become more likely to try for a big blow. Maybe what I need is some aversion therapy.

Anonymous dh April 04, 2013 1:26 PM  

is for the knee, although my BJJ guy says that is easier said than done in real life.

The only real fight I've been in, this is more or less how it ended on the ground. I went for the waist, which was met with a nasty knee to my chin. But I did have him by the waist and torso. He got me in the side of the head with three or four good smashes, but I was much heavier and we both went down, with me astride, slightly off the side.

I would think if he had any training at all he would have been able to disable me before I brought him down. As it was, I nearly lost consciousness and was stunned from the knee. I had blocked his dominant hand with the grapple, but even with his left the shots to my head almost turned the lights out.

Anonymous Inane Rambler April 04, 2013 1:32 PM  

I apologize for not attacking Phony-shun's Wiki-fu.

I just have grown tired over that issue.

You can post all the studies you want, you can attack their propagandized view of things they really don't understand other than just brief skimming on Wikipedia.

Your facts and figures are ineffective to persuade rhetoric based defenders of radical equalism.

Anonymous Obvious April 04, 2013 1:35 PM  

Damn. Is there anything that Vox can't do? Supergenius, fighter extraordinaire, Top 40 recording artist...

Anonymous Inane Rambler April 04, 2013 1:46 PM  

Anyways, I doubt you would consider kicking a Marine's ass to be an achievement. Obviously some Marines are tougher than others, but most Marines are not badasses that can take anyone on in a fight.

Anonymous Rod Freeman April 04, 2013 2:26 PM  

Vox, have you had any experience with the Senshido Shredder concept? Curious about your opinion if you have.

Blogger James Dixon April 04, 2013 2:35 PM  

> Especially with any contact to my head or face I tend to lose my cool and become more likely to try for a big blow.

Personally, I find these discussions very interesting. The only training I ever had was a basic introductory course in karate in college as a PE requirement, and it was largely non-contact.

Of course, the word athlete and I aren't even on speaking terms, and I have no effective muscle memory, so training would largely be lost on me.

I was in a dozen or more schoolyard type as a youngster, both winning an losing my share of them. I learned by my late teens to avoid them as much as possible, and haven't been in a fight for 20+ years now.

I have to echo Nate's rule number one.

Blogger James Dixon April 04, 2013 2:38 PM  

Oh, and the reason I quoted dh above is that when I did lose my temper in those fights, I never went for the big blow. I always went directly for soft tissue, usually either the throat of abdomen, depending on which seemed more accessible. Strange how people react differently.

Anonymous cheddarman April 04, 2013 3:50 PM  

James May,

I am ready to throw down, for round 2, concerning the Civil War, and how the South could have won, as in won its independence.

Are you game, or are you gonna yankee?

Sincerely

Cheddarman

Anonymous James May April 04, 2013 4:39 PM  

I am in no way an expert on the Civil War. I simply said I'd win a debate easily against a specific someone who is even more ignorant.

In my opinion it is ignorant to think, all things being equal as concerns resolve, that the South had any chance of winning that war, or that it was about anything other than slavery.

The Civil War was tactically and strategically over on the day Pickett's Charge failed, in much the same way the Japanese were conclusively beaten well before the Battle For Leyte Gulf.

These are simply my opinions and not a commandment. Agree with them or not. The North had 20 million people, the South 5.

The Japanese couldn't keep up as regards skilled pilots crucial in the Pacific campaign because of the same population discrepancy. They certainly had the planes, though even those became increasingly outmatched once the P-38 and F6F arrived. The Japanese had the carriers, but no pilots. That's why they sacrificed them in the Leyte affair. Fleet carriers had become good for nothing more than bait.

States rights is a goof ball tactic racial bigots commonly employ to prop up supporting the South, the same way Al Sharpton talks justice to mask his hate, the same way anti-Semites use Zionism to mask theirs.

The only way the South could've won was if the North's resolve had faded - that didn't happen. The Western theater never had a fool like McClennan and so that was much less successful for the South than the Virginia theater. Once Lincoln used the strategist Grant and the tactician Meade together as brutal shock troops, but not stupid enough to repeat something like Fredericksburg, it was all over.

The only interesting argument I've never seen expressed is the idea that there was a limit, based on knowledge at that time, to how successfully a general could articulate a large army. Perhaps 100,000 men simply couldn't tactically maneuver and compete with a smaller army of 50,000, lighter on its feet.

That might account for Lee having his greatest defeat with his largest army, though having no interior lines or Stonewall Jackson at Gettysburg surely needs to be considered.

Anonymous James May April 04, 2013 4:47 PM  

I should also add that it is a mistake to underestimate the effect Sherman and particularly Sheridan had in changing the war once they came into their own and could exert themselves the way they wished. They were simply brilliant. Sheridan robbed Lee of that arrow he'd used to constantly point at Washington.

I also typo'd McClellan.

Blogger James Dixon April 04, 2013 4:53 PM  

> ...or that it was about anything other than slavery.

On that matter, we'll simply have to disagree.

> Once Lincoln used the strategist Grant and the tactician Meade together as brutal shock troops, but not stupid enough to repeat something like Fredericksburg, it was all over.

I'd argue that it was largely over once the South lost Jackson. That was a terrible loss for them. No one the north had could match him.

But I'd also argue that the loss was divine judgment on the south for not giving up slavery when it could have.

Anonymous James May April 04, 2013 5:08 PM  

James Dixon that is insupportable. I challenge you to a duel.

I have my champion stick insect. Choose yours.

Anonymous FUBAR Nation Ben April 04, 2013 5:12 PM  

Vox, did you ever have to do any silly wood breaking? When I took karate as a kid, we would break crappy wood and everyone thought it was an accomplishment. What a joke.

Anonymous James May April 04, 2013 5:19 PM  

It's true that if Lee had once again detached Jackson and set him against Sheridan in the Valley, the outcome, at least there, might have been different. Jackson, like Forrest, may have been a natural tactical genius. But by the time Sheridan got started in earnest in the Valley, Jackson was dead.

I think it is also sometimes underrated how much the Army of the Potomac and its cavalry, simply greatly improved, even though being set back time and again. Had the numbers been more even, Lee may have struck a decisive blow when the North's army was in disarray. Sheer numbers and materiel saved the North until it could learn from its defeats, and exert its numerical dominance.

In smaller units, the North was often brightly led.

Anonymous James May April 04, 2013 5:29 PM  

My stick insect has seen many Shaw Bros. kung-fu movies.

Anonymous sprach von Teufelshunden April 04, 2013 5:36 PM  

Since we are talking about the IDF, Roi Tov is a good resource to get to know. The more interesting thing about this individual, is that he is a former Israeli/Jew, that currently lives in Bolivia as a converted Lutheran Christian. So far as terms of W.i.C. in the IDF, he would be your expert, especially from a theological perspective.

So far as self-defense. Less possession of a firearm, and preventing from bloodying your knuckles, most people don't realize what one can do with a broomstick (or similar object). Learn the basic mechanics of bayonet drills with a rifle. Apply that to broomstick, hardwood staff, and/or metal pole of same/similar length and density.

In proficient enough hands, a devastating weapon, that only the better trained fighter can overcome. In a fight, evade an attacker and maneuver till such opportunity to find and utilize such weapon. If opponent shows skill in overcoming such weapon, and you lack further hand-to-hand skills............ RUN!

Anonymous cheddarman April 04, 2013 5:54 PM  

James May,

IMO, I think the South could have won the civil war if they seized the initiative early on, and took the war north. I believe Stonewall Jackson understood this, as well as did Lee. If you are interested in having a civil debate on this, i am in.

I am not an expert on this either, though, having read a few books on maneuver warfare and military history. I think the south had better commanders in the very beginning, especially with Stonewall Jackson and Lee, in that order.

sincerely

cheddarman

Anonymous VD April 04, 2013 6:06 PM  

Vox, have you had any experience with the Senshido Shredder concept?

No.

Vox, did you ever have to do any silly wood breaking?

No.

fighter extraordinaire

Hardly. I was perhaps a little above average at my dojo. Even after five years, there were 8-10 guys who could wipe the floor with me. Good hands, mediocre feet, fast, counterpuncher, takes too many chances... that would have been the book on me.

Anonymous James May April 04, 2013 6:13 PM  

There's not much to debate on this particular subject. What most likely woulda happened in in fact what did happen: the North won.

To me it is completely fascinating story.

I'd have liked to have seen what would've happened had Grant, Meade, Sheridan and Sherman gone up against any European army in our own backyard. I think the Euros would've been far more vulnerable than any Southern army and pummeled into surrender in short order.

In what world could any European nation at that time have extended 50,000 men onto the N. American continent, let alone supplied and reinforced them?

Anonymous sprach von Teufelshunden April 04, 2013 6:28 PM  

Really do miss an edit feature here...

If one really wishes to understand antisemitism. If one truly wishes to understand this Jewish Mafia. Here is your resource, constructed by a true expert on the matter: (listen to this guy, not Wheeler et al)

Roi Tov

You really want to know what is going on in Cyprus?

So, what is the IDF?

Better to serve in the Nazi Army than in the IDF

Yes, there is a lot, a lot more. Spend some time here, in order to really get to understand the world around you...

Blogger Nate April 04, 2013 6:35 PM  

Yankee gonna Yankee.

Anonymous James May April 04, 2013 7:22 PM  

Gay slavers gonna miscegenate and then whine about octoroons. Kinda like angels.

Blogger James Dixon April 04, 2013 7:31 PM  

> I have my champion stick insect. Choose yours.

I thought as the challengee I had the choice of weapons. :)

If so, I'll take ping pong balls at 20ft. To first blood or boredom sets in. :)

The divine judgment theory isn't unique to me, of course. I've heard others express it, even one here. It's just not that common.

Anonymous James May April 04, 2013 7:41 PM  

I'm glad it's not to the death, since I know of no occasion in the long history of men where anyone has been killed by ping pong balls...

Other than the Siege of Seringapatam in 1799 during the 4th Anglo-Mysore War. One of Tipu Sultan's commanders, a lesbian in charge of a unit of female sepoys, legally changed the definition of cannon balls to ping pong balls.

She soon after died when she failed to successfully consummate her marriage to a raging bull she had legally changed to an innocent little girl.

Anonymous cheddarman April 04, 2013 8:05 PM  

James May,

i will have to take this up with you at a later date.

I am in the process of trying to start a business, and things are starting to move forward.

I am not conceding, just asking to reschedule

sincerely

cheddarman

Anonymous map April 05, 2013 1:07 AM  

I don't understand why anyone would regard any of this combat training as "self-defense." It seems that the only defending you are doing is against trash-talking bar drunks. It seems getting into fights with local oafs is something that can be avoided.

Yet, how is any of this effective in a street fight? Such fights have no rules, meaning you could be ambushed by multiple attackers while you are out ith your wife and kids. How does anything like that protect you?
Can you count on Krav Maga to take out the biggest 15-year-old flash mobber that would convince his friends not to jump in?

Anonymous VryeDenker April 05, 2013 3:21 AM  

Vox, did you ever have to do any silly wood breaking? When I took karate as a kid, we would break crappy wood and everyone thought it was an accomplishment. What a joke.

The point of wood breaking is to teach your students to a) aim properly, b) strike with the right part of your hand/foot/elbow/etc. and c) strike THROUGH the target.

Blogger Rantor April 05, 2013 6:05 AM  

@VryeDenker.. I think c. Is most important, my Kenpo instructors taught us to aim a foot or two beyond our target. That of course ensured follow through. My last and only fight since taking karate was in 1983 so I think I have followed Nate's rule #1 quite successfully. That was also our dojo's first rule of fighting, if at all possible, don't.

Blogger James Dixon April 05, 2013 6:57 AM  

> That was also our dojo's first rule of fighting, if at all possible, don't.

From http://www.kungfu-guide.com/pilot.html and from the movie "Kung Fu": "What is the best way to deal with force?' -disciple Caine to one of his teachers. 'As we prize peace and quiet above victory, there is a simple and preferred method.... Run away.'"

Anonymous Goofyguy April 05, 2013 10:00 AM  

Seems like an appropriate thread to pose this question...Is there a method or style I could study which would give me some tools in a worst case scenario. I'd prefer to carry buy my jurisdiction won't always allow that. I try to avoid stupid people and potentially explosive situations, but I'd like some options to fall back on if needed. Some folks have recommended TFT or target focus training. Anyone ever done that, perhaps in combination w/ martial art study?

Anonymous Stilicho April 06, 2013 7:22 AM  

Yeah, it wasn't a video game, it was a similarly dubious active-duty Marine officer with significant combat experience. He doesn't mock the martial arts any more.

YMMV I suppose. We trained hard. In the ring, in the field. Elements of aikido, judo, boxing, etc. Aggression and brutality was emphasized (although this can have its own drawbacks). Many of us pursued further studies on our own time. In the end, everything comes down to putting rounds on target in different situations.

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