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Saturday, May 11, 2013

The working model

Dan Drezner points it out for anyone who has somehow failed to notice:
So, in all, this has been a pretty crappy week for people who dislike conspiracy theories.
I would go so far as to say that unless you accept the basic concept of conspiracy theory and actively look for conspiracies behind most significant current events, you cannot possibly understand history or reasonably hope to anticipate the future in any meaningful way.

It is better to pick up a few false signals than recognize nothing that takes place around you.

Labels:

97 Comments:

Blogger FALPhil May 11, 2013 1:20 PM  

But here is th problem: on the one hand, we decry government employees as incompetent boobs who cannot find their butts with both hands and a flashlight. On the other hand, we make them out as diabolical manipulators who can pull off the most complex of plots.

Socrates would have a field day.

Anonymous Mudz May 11, 2013 1:30 PM  

Maybe they suck at their jobs because they're too busy conspiring. :P

Blogger The Great and Powerful Oz May 11, 2013 1:33 PM  

It is easy to mistake emergent behaviour as conspiracy. Just saying....

Anonymous Clay May 11, 2013 1:35 PM  

So, Vox, I guess you're immunized...(heh), from all the "false flag", rhetoric?

Anonymous Monsignor Nose May 11, 2013 1:45 PM  

You have a core of satanic masterminds operating behind a throng of idiots soon to wear out their usefulness.

Anonymous dudemanhey May 11, 2013 1:46 PM  

The inept government employees are but ignorant pawns. In fact it is important that those types be incompetent becasue they are easily used/manipulated.

It is not these beaurocrats who are conspiring; they are just following orders and going by the book like the good lil' oblivious lemmings that they are. It is the multi-national elites and their lawyers who conspire, the government tools are just exploited.

Blogger IM2L844 May 11, 2013 1:52 PM  

The failure to recognize patters where they actually do exist is a much more common, predictable and demonstrable human condition than apophenia. Just sayin'...

Blogger RobertT May 11, 2013 1:57 PM  

"most complex"
I gave up on people a long time ago, besides evidence supports a conspiracy theory. But in my humble opinion a complex conspiracy couldn't be pulled off with out tons and tons of leaks. Look at the leaks in the Benghazi fiasco. And don't forget - the Boston bombers were bragging about what they'd done before the day was out. Look at Watergate. Of course the successes we never heard about. In either case, never underestimate the stupidity people. It will have an impact, one way or the other.

Anonymous gwood May 11, 2013 2:01 PM  

"But in my humble opinion a complex conspiracy couldn't be pulled off with out tons and tons of leaks."
Over 100,000 people worked on the atomic bomb. Nobody talked.

Anonymous Vidad May 11, 2013 2:14 PM  

Everything - EVERYTHING - goes back to the Vatican/Extraterrestrial connection. I saw a video of a UFO that showed up over Rome to say goodbye the day JPII. This stuff is real.

Blogger stareatgoatsies May 11, 2013 2:15 PM  

The failure to recognize patters where they actually do exist is a much more common, predictable and demonstrable human condition than apophenia.

ehh is it really though? What about the evo-bio canard about being better of mistaking a rustle in the grasses for a tiger about to git ya, than the other way around?

Blogger stareatgoatsies May 11, 2013 2:18 PM  

canard -> old chestnut

Blogger stareatgoatsies May 11, 2013 2:22 PM  

which would lead on to the difference between modern & pre-modern life - which here would suggest that given the sheer amount of information available, a surfeit of potential conspiracies for the conspiracy-minded and a candidate conspiracy for almost any given indicator...

Anonymous Jack Amok May 11, 2013 2:24 PM  

Over 100,000 people worked on the atomic bomb. Nobody talked.

Well, except for the Soviet spies. And the important number isn't 100,000, it's whatever number actually knew what they were working on.

Anyway, I don't think the modern governo-finance conspiracies are at all complex. Most of them are pretty damn straight-forward and frankly represent fairly limited imagination on the conspirators part.

Use your position at the IRS to harrass people who support the "wrong" politics. Use your position at the ATF to traffic guns to Mexican narco-gangs. Use your position as Chief Of Police in Dirtburg to run revenue-enhancement traffic ticket operations. Use your position on a regulatory body to pressure the organizations you regulate into doing things that pay off for you and your cronies.

Really most of this is better classified as "corruption" than "conspiracy." The only reason any of it gets the "conspiracy" tag is that we want to think our system isn't inherently corrupt and so any persistent corruption must be the result of a conspiracy. But frankly, since we no longer punish corruption and the legacy media (which is the only media these sorts of people worry about - an eventual mistake on their part) only investigates Republican scandals, none of these people with Leftist ties need any sort of secret conspiracy. Brazen corruption works for thme.

At least in the short run.

Long term it's going to have some very nasty consequences for whatever set of Corrupticrats end up holding the bag when the train wreck finally comes to a halt. But none of them think they'll be in that group. They're either too stupid to realize the party can't last, or else too prideful and used to power to think they won't be able to slip the noose when the time comes.


Anonymous TWS May 11, 2013 2:25 PM  

The 'Deep Government' behind the elected/appointed folks need the elected types to be corrupt, sinful and ruled by their appetites. You cannot as easily manipulate an honest man. Worse, since the visible rulers are selected for their weaknesses and lack of self control we wind up with events like Benghazi.

The man couldn't be bothered to deal with the crisis and went to bed instead of brewing some coffee and doing something. Even if it was all part of the puppeteer's plan he should have acted like he cared.

Blogger stareatgoatsies May 11, 2013 2:32 PM  

none of these people with Leftist ties need any sort of secret conspiracy.

As is often the case, i'm with you up to here. e.g. "use your position on regulatory bodies..." But the guys throwing the orgies don't count as conspirators for some reason. It's like the question of who raped who if both parties were too drunk to consent, legally speaking. And is Drezner not referring to recent revelations of LIBOR-style conspiracies? "self-regulation" style set-ups?

Anonymous Supernaut May 11, 2013 2:36 PM  

It's not Government. It's the bankers.

"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws." - Mayer Amschel Rothschild

Who was Mayer Rothschild?

"He was the founder of the Rothschild family international banking dynasty that became the most successful business family in history. In 2005, he was ranked 7th on the Forbes magazine list of "The Twenty Most Influential Businessmen Of All Time". The business magazine referred to him as a "founding father of international finance".[1]"

Here's the Banker's M.O.:

"What also indeed is, in substance, a loan, especially a foreign loan? A loan is - an issue of government bills of exchange containing a percentage obligation commensurate to the sum of the loan capital. If the loan bears a charge of 5 per cent, then in twenty years the State vainly pays away in interest a sum equal to the loan borrowed, in forty years it is paying a double sum, in sixty - treble, and all the while the debt remains an unpaid debt.

From this calculation it is obvious that with any form of taxation per head the State is baling out the last coppers of the poor taxpayers in order to settle accounts with wealthy foreigners, from whom it has borrowed money instead of collecting these coppers for its own needs without the additional interest." - Protocol 20 from the infamous "forgery" (nevermind the fact that most of the protocol's accurately reflects our current dystopian reality, to even THINK about reading them means your a vicious anti-semite and holocaust denier!)

That protocol is the Rosetta Stone of the conspiracy theory of history.

All nations/states that have a central banking system are beholden to the Rothschild Banking dynasty.

Anonymous Mr. Pea May 11, 2013 2:36 PM  

The government would never do that! But, but... this is America! No one is that evil! But it would take hundreds or thousands of people to pull that off, and someone would talk!

We fought the Nazi's!

No! I don't believe it!

You don't believe it because you have been conditioned to not believe it. You have been conditioned to not believe what you see with your eyes, and hear with your ears. You will sit glued to your television set until someone comes along and set the facts straight for you. And then you say, "Ha-ha! That's it. It all makes sense now!" You would rather believe a lie, than know the horrible truth.

All this was inspired by the principle--which is quite true within itself--that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying. - Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

Your government has spent decades and BILLIONS of dollars studying the psyop techniques, propaganda, and human conditioning, of such regimes as that of Marx/Lenin/Stalin, Hitler, Mao... and expanded on them with their own lessons learned. And when lies and persuasion fail... trauma based conditioning fills in the gaps.

Besides:

When an opponent declares, "I will not come over to your side," I calmly say, "Your child belongs to us already... What are you? You will pass on. Your descendants, however, now stand in the new camp. In a short time they will know nothing else but this new community." - Adolf Hitler

Grasp that. You are such a minority now, and your ranks are shrinking with each generation. The noble lie.

Blogger stareatgoatsies May 11, 2013 2:37 PM  

Right so, I missed the point somewhat there. moving on...

Anonymous kh123 May 11, 2013 2:53 PM  

Bolshevik takeover - both over Tsarist Russia and the competing revolutionary parties - and the later Peasant Plague (that is to say, collectivization). The National Socialist's ascendancy to power, and all that came afterwards (Wansee for one).

I don't know how anyone can see these, say "Yes, those are conspiracies", and then with a straight face say "Never, not now though, not here..."

"Never again" isn't a magic talisman, after all. Considering its source, it may be something akin to the Great Sh'ma, but in and of itself does nothing without that remembrance and diligence turning into action. It's like appealing to the Constitution to showcase the country's greatness, all the while tax season has bankrolled foreign adventures in Pashtunistan for how many decades, overtly or otherwise.

An ability for conspiracy proper to flourish may be symptomatic of a country's politics having transformed into a cargo cult or sorts, empty gestures to a forgotten pattern.

"It's... all clear."


Anonymous Porky May 11, 2013 2:53 PM  

"So, in all, this has been a pretty crappy week for people who dislike conspiracy theories."

Ha. That's exactly what they want you to think.

Blogger Nate May 11, 2013 2:54 PM  

Very few of the 100,000 people who worked on the bomb knew what they were actually working on

Anonymous Conservative Language Institute of America May 11, 2013 2:56 PM  

Ever wondered what Hannah Arendt meant when she coined the phrase "the banality of evil"? Recommend that you investigate it, as per the relationship of petty bureaucrats to carrying out the evils of the State.

The dirty little secret from WWII is that national socialism/facsism is the most efficient form of government, i.e. power and control, ever conceived. So now we in the USSA have corporatism at the top and socialism at the bottom, and MPAI's lapping it up with pretty leftist memes running around in their empty little heads. I ask you, what could possibly be wrong?

Blogger IM2L844 May 11, 2013 2:56 PM  

It's important to distinguish between conspiracy hunters who see a conspiracy behind every tree and conspiracy trackers who understand that Fabianism has been openly and explicitly spelled out and promoted by globally prominent individuals in every field of endeavor for more than a century.

I have no doubt that some of the relatively minor and tangential conspiracy theories have more than an element of truth in them, but those are just distractions and not where the focus should be.

Anonymous Hyperphrenius May 11, 2013 2:58 PM  

FALPhil May 11, 2013 1:20 PM

But here is th problem: on the one hand, we decry government employees as incompetent boobs who cannot find their butts with both hands and a flashlight. On the other hand, we make them out as diabolical manipulators who can pull off the most complex of plots.


we decry . . . we make them out

we

Who's we? Certainly not me, or Vox, or any of the commenters here. At least I don't recall ever seeing these ideas expressed by them. Is this supposed to be some kind of strawman argument, where you say "we" instead of "you" to attempt to trick the reader into imagining that you're part of a political in-group to which he belongs, when you are really part of an outgroup, and attacking his in-group? Or do you really believe what you wrote above?

Socrates would have a field day.

With you and the members of your arbitrary in-group, perhaps, as the "we" you referred to doesn't refer to anyone else here, or in fact anyone else I've ever met apart from you. Wait, to "have a field day" with something is to derive glee with ease from it, in the ordinary usage of the phrase. How do you know that Socrates would? And why should we care what some dead Greek philosopher would derive glee from, or not? What does this have to do with the beliefs you listed above? Do you even have any idea what "have a field day" means? If you want to criticize your own beliefs, and the shared beliefs of others in your "we", then go ahead, but if you're going to share those criticisms with other people, at least try to make those criticism intelligible to them.

Anonymous JW May 11, 2013 3:02 PM  

"The man couldn't be bothered to deal with the crisis and went to bed instead of brewing some coffee and doing something. Even if it was all part of the puppeteer's plan he should have acted like he cared."

Hey. They were just four white guys. What does it matter now.

Anonymous Loki of Asgard May 11, 2013 3:14 PM  

The best minions are the ones who are competent but not ambitious. If you cannot have this, it is better to have incompetence with lack of ambition, than competence and ambition in your followers.

Yes, one must keep them on a very short lead, but it is better that than to walk always with one's back to a wall.

Blogger IM2L844 May 11, 2013 3:14 PM  

ehh is it really though?

Absolutely.

Blogger Galt-in-Da-Box May 11, 2013 3:20 PM  

Interesting to note that, while large groups of idiots led in the same wrong direction by cunning authoritarian liars might not constitute a conspiracy, the term "conspiracy theory" was first coined in popular political usage by a corrupt autocratic bastard who orchestrated a conspiracy, to downplay the allegation there was one.

Anonymous Jack Amok May 11, 2013 3:21 PM  

The best minions are the ones who are competent but not ambitious. If you cannot have this, it is better to have incompetence with lack of ambition, than competence and ambition in your followers.

You've read your Clausewitz.

Blogger stareatgoatsies May 11, 2013 4:21 PM  

Absolutely

In the sense that a clever mathmatician might spot symmetries in his daily life 99.99% of us would miss, sure, or that the sense that actual existing patterns we come across every day outnumbers ones we spot, sure.

But what the non-obvious point (I assume) you are you making?

Anonymous paradox May 11, 2013 4:28 PM  

The Great and Powerful Oz

It is easy to mistake emergent behaviour as conspiracy. Just saying....


Thread winner. Conspiracy but consensus, but don't tell Dread or Alex Jones.

Jones now believes the Iron Man 3 plot supports the globalist. I don't know what version of Iron Man 3 he seen, but the version I watched supports Jones' political take on things. I think Jones has comprehension problems.

Anonymous paradox May 11, 2013 4:29 PM  

But = by

Damn Kindel auto-correct.

Anonymous cheddarman May 11, 2013 4:38 PM  

I think the puppet masters in our society are convinced of their own unique genius.

Much like the puppet masters of all of the other failed empires of man, they wont realize their mistakes until it is too late for them, and they are caught up/ruined in the collapse.

A good example in literature is "That Hideous Strength" by C.S. Lewis

Anonymous Godfrey May 11, 2013 4:51 PM  

Here's a far out conspiracy theory - very wealthy and powerful people want to hold onto their wealth and power. They support a static economic system and they use national and international institutions to guarantee one.

... wait a minute? That's not a conspiracy theory. That's just a very basic understanding of historical and observable human nature.

Anonymous Godfrey May 11, 2013 4:55 PM  

@cheddarman May 11, 2013 4:38 PM
I think the puppet masters in our society are convinced of their own unique genius.


Most of them were just born into it. It's simply a modern form of aristocracy. They use political means to accomplish what they couldn't accomplish by economic means in a free market system.

Anonymous DonReynolds May 11, 2013 5:11 PM  

The only thing that keeps me from becoming a full-time conspiracy theorist is my 38 years in public service. What I have seen, there is a basic INABILITY to manage a very simple level of organization beyond what anyone would see as a Chinese fire drill. In short, they really stink at subterfuge. The lying and deception, they can do fine, but marshaling the resources for a campaign is well beyond their capacity. Maybe the big banks can pull it off and maybe they can get the willing or unknowing cooperation of the government, but the government is simply too many people without discipline and organization (and leadership). (Anyone who has served in the US military also knows that few things work well enough to call it a deliberate outcome. Most of the time, we just know it as lucky.)

Anonymous Isn't It Ironic, Don't You Think? May 11, 2013 5:19 PM  

"The only thing that keeps me from becoming a full-time conspiracy theorist is my 38 years in public service. What I have seen, there is a basic INABILITY to manage a very simple level of organization beyond what anyone would see as a Chinese fire drill...the government is simply too many people without discipline and organization (and leadership)".

And you were the epitome of efficiency and effectiveness, of course, being the exception to the governmental rule during your halcyon days in public service.

Anonymous Anonagain May 11, 2013 5:45 PM  

War is the culmination of the conspiracies of those in power, or those jockeying for power. Peace is nothing more than the window of time during which conspiracies are developing.

The history of Mankind has shown it is impossible for fallen humans to indefinitely maintain the balance between power and peace. There are always conspiracies in the works.

But even peace in itself is not necessarily a desirable human condition. North Koreans live in peace. Everyone is equal, and certainly some are more equal. The status quo in NK will continue indefinitely because there are no conspiracies to threaten it. Absolute power has no need for conspiracy, nor is it vulnerable to conspiracy.

North Korea is the prototypical Leftist Utopia toward which they will never stop pushing the entire world. Leftists are ever conspiring to attain that absolute, unassailable power essential for their vision of world peace and human equality.

Of course, peace and equality are simply the narrative. It takes a village of useful idiots to achieve totalitarianism. Those with absolute power couldn't give two craps about peace or equality.

I don't think anyone with two functioning neurons can deny that the powers of this world are conspiring toward a New World Order. There is most certainly a method to the madness that we now witness on a daily basis. In my own lifetime I've seen changes in this world that I would have never believed possible. This kind of evil shit doesn't just happen.

Blogger Ron May 11, 2013 5:48 PM  

Its very difficult to tell what is accurate and what is nonsense when looking at conspiracy theories. One knows that he isnt getting all the facts, and that something is wrong, but the information thats out there can be anything.

Btw "Never Again" is utter bullshit said by ignorant clueless jerks who had no idea how to assess their errors and no real interest in preventing a recurrence of the same. Its emotional female feel good shite.

Anonymous DonReynolds May 11, 2013 6:02 PM  

"The only thing that keeps me from becoming a full-time conspiracy theorist is my 38 years in public service. What I have seen, there is a basic INABILITY to manage a very simple level of organization beyond what anyone would see as a Chinese fire drill...the government is simply too many people without discipline and organization (and leadership)".

And you were the epitome of efficiency and effectiveness, of course, being the exception to the governmental rule during your halcyon days in public service.

He he. WHO TOLD YOU THAT?

Well sonny, you will never get anywhere in life listening to liars....and yes, that would be a lie.

And isn't that what makes it a conspiracy? I mean, if it were not buried under a mountain of lies, it would not be a conspiracy, now would it?

In my lifetime, what has become seriously eroded is the credibility of the government. There was a time when the public actually believed all the nonsense they were told by the government. These days, not many believe much at all, which leads us to believe that the truth is simply unknown and will remain undisclosed. That might be the only truth we get.

Blogger FALPhil May 11, 2013 6:19 PM  

"Really most of this is better classified as 'corruption' than 'conspiracy.'"

Bingo!

"Who's we? Certainly not me, or Vox, or any of the commenters here."

Hyperphrenius, the "we" is the blogosphere/twittersphere/facebooksphere that conspiracy theories and counter-conspiracy theories come from and which "we" are a subset of.

I would have thought that was pretty obvious, but next time, I will spell out my assumptions in detail for those who cannot see the obvious, lest I be mistaken for a conspirator. ;-)

Anonymous Aeoli Pera May 11, 2013 6:41 PM  

I really, really want Vox to take a poll on this. In my dreams it wouldn't be anonymous, so I could draw some informal correlations. But what I really covet is the simple ratio: How many of the Ilk are off the reservation? Seems to me the more vocal people in this thread believe in the accidental theory of history, beautifully illustrated by SMBC.

Throw me in with those who are either off the reservation or at least off their rockers.

Anonymous Aeoli Pera May 11, 2013 6:42 PM  

Big surprise, I know.

Blogger Markku May 11, 2013 6:49 PM  

Well, I believe in a grand Luciferian conspiracy that controls the direction of the history and the future.

Blogger IM2L844 May 11, 2013 7:00 PM  

This kind of evil shit doesn't just happen.

You'll never convince the person who has become acclimated to the notion that no matter how fantastically improbable coincidences might seem, they are the most reasonable explanation for anything and everything that doesn't conform to their world-view. This is why appeals to complexity and infinite possibilities are attractive. Multiverse theory? No problem. Abiogenesis? No problem. A well documented open conspiracy to subvert national sovereignties and implement global governance. No way! That's just crazy talk.

Anonymous Anonagain May 11, 2013 7:04 PM  

It is better to pick up a few false signals than recognize nothing that takes place around you.

This is where the utility of useful idiots comes in. They are completely and utterly clueless in recognizing and accessing the ramifications of all signals that take place around them.

A dog has a greater awareness of reality than your typical Leftist tard.

Anonymous zen0 May 11, 2013 7:13 PM  

People in all walks of life conspire all the time. They call it a "meeting".

Clever bastards.

In the NFL, they call it "halftime".

Sneaky.

Blogger IM2L844 May 11, 2013 7:23 PM  

Well, I believe in a grand Luciferian conspiracy that controls the direction of the history and the future.

I think it's certainly a biblically compatible explanation, but, if I remember Vox's position correctly, I give Lucifer more intellectual credit than Vox does.

Blogger Markku May 11, 2013 7:28 PM  

I meant Luciferianism as a belief system. Basically, Satanists who think Satan is the "good guy" (not literally) in the battle. How much direct interaction there is with Satan, I don't know.

Blogger Markku May 11, 2013 7:30 PM  

Basically, not counting the few elements that are obviously there for purposes of the story, I think That Hideous Strength is a pretty accurate representation of reality.

Anonymous Mr. Pea May 11, 2013 7:40 PM  

Sneaky.

http://battlefieldusa.wordpress.com/2013/05/04/seriously-they-dont/

Anonymous Hyperphrenius May 11, 2013 8:11 PM  

@FALPhil

Hyperphrenius, the "we" is the blogosphere/twittersphere/facebooksphere that conspiracy theories and counter-conspiracy theories come from and which "we" are a subset of.

So the "we" you were referring to is both the totality of said blogosphere/twittersphere/facebooksphere, as well as a non-total subset of it. Which is logically impossible impossible, as a thing cannot both be something and not be something at the same time.

I have no memory of every coming across anyone who thought "government employees" are "incompetent boobs" and also "diabolical manipulators who can pull off the most complex of plots.". I've never encountered a person who claimed both these things to be simultaneously true. Do you have any particular people in mind, links to any twitter / blog? Who, exactly, are you talking about? Where do you remember seeing a person express belief in both these things? Is seeing such expression something you've drawn from memory, with you unable to remember who did the expressing? Or are these people imaginary? Do you even know?

Blogger Markku May 11, 2013 8:16 PM  

They are simultaneously true if you don't Asher about it. Most of your interactions aren't of such nature that the Illuminati takes interest in them. So, you are dealing with incompetent boobs who aren't even aware of the conspiracy. If you were to say "the government is a bunch of incompetent boobs" in such a context, a normal person would understand what you mean.

Anonymous Johnycomelately May 11, 2013 8:19 PM  

Wait until you find out dinosaur bones are being uncovered still containing soft tissue, then carbon dated to 25k years old.

Now that's a conspiracy! Supposedly millions of years old bones containing soft tissue, wtf!

Anonymous p-dawg May 11, 2013 8:23 PM  

I'm a conspiracy theorist because I believe in statistics. Statistics say that mere incompetence would result, from time to time, in the happy accident of government policies actually helping commoners. Since that doesn't happen, I perceive a statistical anomaly which would seem to require conscious intervention to effect. Also, a conspiracy is simply two or more people agreeing to break the law. If you don't think there are myriad conspiracies everywhere, you're naive.

Blogger IM2L844 May 11, 2013 8:31 PM  

I meant Luciferianism as a belief system.

I see. It's a fascinating topic with a rich history that most people are afraid to talk about.

Anonymous map May 11, 2013 8:33 PM  

What is not understood is that the purpose of a conspiracy is not the conspiracy itself.

Conspiracies are not start-ups. It's not like a couple of guys have an idea and then they have to recruit others into the conspiracy. This is where the "leak" theory comes from. In the course of recruiting co-conspirators, someone talks and the conspiracy falls apart.

Reality is different. In the real world, like-minded people find each other. Their like-mindedness creates their commonality. Their common need to keep quiet is what keeps conspiracies silent.

This is how things work.

Anonymous Jack Amok May 11, 2013 8:43 PM  

I'm a conspiracy theorist because I believe in statistics. Statistics say that mere incompetence would result, from time to time, in the happy accident of government policies actually helping commoners.

You're badly confused about how incompetence works. Incompetent terrorist bombers might accidentally blow themselves up building their bomb, but they're never going to accidentally build a hospital or invent an airplane. Making positive contributes to society (beyond removing yourself from it) doesn't happen randomly, no matter how many dice rolls you make.

Blogger IM2L844 May 11, 2013 8:54 PM  

Making positive contributes to society (beyond removing yourself from it) doesn't happen randomly, no matter how many dice rolls you make.

What about microwave ovens, safety glass, plastic, x-ray photography and penicillin?

Anonymous cheddarman May 11, 2013 9:03 PM  

"North Korea is the prototypical Leftist Utopia toward which they will never stop pushing the entire world. Leftists are ever conspiring to attain that absolute, unassailable power essential for their vision of world peace and human equality." - Anonagain

The good thing about North Korea is that they are being propped up by conspiracy, that of China. The current government of NK would not survive without regular and large infusions of Chinese resources. It would collapse, if left to its own devices. From this I conclude that world totalitarianism would never work.



Anonymous aero May 11, 2013 9:39 PM  

Picking up false signals is exactly how how conspiracy theories work. 60 minutes uses this system to mislead or to lead the view into believing something is not true.
1: Outtakes of experts or facts that are presented in a way the will mislead the viewer
2: Poor quality of documents or are shown for a short period of time.
3: Rearranging historical fact or event so the laws of physics will make the truth a lie and the lie the truth

If you watch the Discovery, History, or National Geographic channels you are being mislead Not to mention there are also countless number of conspiracy web sites that use the same formula to mislead or lead you to believe false facts.

What they know is that most people are ignorant of the subject matter they present. Bernie Madoff made millions doing this and so are the networks and many web sites. Twisting, Misleading and leading there viewers and readers to the wrong conclusion. MPAI

Blogger  Trust Ted get misled. Gamma secret kings reddit May 11, 2013 9:44 PM  

There is not a conspiracy within every story. But in some stories or current events the basic media approved, peddled narrative doesn't make sense. Thankfully, conspiracy theorists abound!

Anonymous Anonagain May 11, 2013 10:32 PM  

The current government of NK would not survive without regular and large infusions of Chinese resources. It would collapse, if left to its own devices. From this I conclude that world totalitarianism would never work.

I don't see how that conclusion necessarily follows. All resources, including advanced technology, would be available to a centralized, totalitarian government. NK is a tiny country with limited resources, and virtually no technology, except what it can steal from others. North Korea may be totalitarian, but it is not self-sufficient. Even if it were the freest country in the world, I don't think it would be self-sufficient.

The New World Order most probably will not happen until after a large part of the human population will have been destroyed in a worldwide holocaust. Under those conditions, it would not be impossible for a totalitarian regime to control and maintain the surviving population.

Of course, when it comes to predictions, I will be the first to admit my igorance. Whenever evil is obvious, is it powerful, but when it is invisible, it is the most powerful. I have been too often shocked to imagine that I have evil figured out.

Anonymous Roundtine May 11, 2013 10:40 PM  

There are two kinds of successful conspiracies. The first is one that can be carried out by a small number of people, preventing any leaks. Example: the surprise coup when the top generals meet and decide the current leader needs to go.

The other kind is the open conspiracy. Take Agenda 21 from the UN. That is a plan laid out for the world to see, and yet when Glenn Beck or someone starts talking about Agenda 21, they are immediately labelled a kook. Literally, it's right there in the Agenda 21 wiki entry:

Glenn Beck said it was a means of instituting "centralized control over all of human life on planet Earth",[25] a notion which Media Matters dismissed as a conspiracy theory.

Anonymous p-dawg May 11, 2013 10:42 PM  

@Jack Amok

You are assuming that incompetence is so total that nothing EVER works as it is "intended". That is a statistical anomaly. You are asking me to believe that those people are competent enough to keep their jobs and feed themselves but not competent enough to ever get anything work-related right. That is cognitive dissonance, my friend.

Anonymous Hyperphrenius May 11, 2013 10:55 PM  

Markku May 11, 2013 8:16 PM

They are simultaneously true if you don't Asher about it. Most of your interactions aren't of such nature that the Illuminati takes interest in them. So, you are dealing with incompetent boobs who aren't even aware of the conspiracy. If you were to say "the government is a bunch of incompetent boobs" in such a context, a normal person would understand what you mean.


This is not the context in which FALPhil made his statement. FALPhil stated "on the one hand, we decry government employees as incompetent boobs who cannot find their butts with both hands and a flashlight. On the other hand, we make them out as diabolical manipulators who can pull off the most complex of plots." The antecedent of this them is the aforementioned "government employees". He's claiming that the same "incompetent boobs" are the ones supposedly "pull[ing] off the most complex of plots."

I've never seen anyone except for him claim to believe that, but he claims there's this "we" out there among conspiracy theorists who believe it. Still he has yet to show that his "we" is anything other than an "I".

Obviously, the incompetent government employees are not part of any conspiracy. I've never seen anyone claim they are. The bankers, billionaires, yes. They use their influence and money to get politicians to do their bidding, or to run propaganda campaigns to deluded the masses into doing the same. I've seen many conspiracy theorists make such claims. I've never seen them claim what FALPhil is claiming.

FALPhil sets up a self-contradictory strawman and mocks it like he's refuted someone else's claims. The only claim he's refuted is of his own invention, and one not even he believes.

Anonymous Outlaw X May 11, 2013 11:18 PM  

It is better to pick up a few false signals than recognize nothing that takes place around you.

Conspiracy? you mean like the conspiracy with Judas and the Pharisees to crucify Jesus? Damn you there is no such thing. The twots who believe in this stuff are a bunch of magic masters. There never was or never will be a conspiracy, go check yourself into a mental hospital now Vox!

Anonymous rubberducky May 11, 2013 11:18 PM  

I fully expect bureaucracies to get things wrong almost every time. If they ever got something right I'd take it as evidence of a benevolent conspiracy. The internal rules by which these behemoth organizations are set up contain too many contradictions and own-goals to pretty much shut them down right out of the gate as anything but a horrendous strain upon anything they touch. If you doubt this, just try to do anything with 100% compliance. Try it. I double dog dare ya. This is a feature, not a bug, because the conspiracies happen at the top. The overwhelming labyrinth of bureaucratic ineptitude provides great cover for the ones on the inside. And, it FORCES everybody else on the outside into "non-compliance", an inescapable state. Their one and only chance is corruption. Bureaucratic payoff or capture. And this is where you'll find the verdant fields for all kinds of skullduggery.

Anonymous Anonagain May 12, 2013 12:09 AM  

I started thinking about how would one go about creating a New World Order. You wargamers who are into all this strategy business would have a better grasp of the details involved here. I'm sure that if one were to think about it, step by step, it would become apparent that what is happening in this world today is this very plan in action.

How many steps yet before the worldwide holocaust? Certain things must be in place to guarantee the right outcome - can't have some outside power arising out of the chaos, or a bunch of independent groups. There are a few steps remaining.

Must consolidate Asia. The Middle East is progressing nicely now. Europe is going well. The EU is never going to break up. They will sacrifice every member before that happens. North America is finally broken - now it's just a matter time. Central and South America are impotent and will do whatever they're told. Africa was never a problem, except the South - that's been taken care of. Now, India. Perhaps the Middle East needs to be in complete control before India becomes the focus, or perhaps there's just not much to be done there - the power structure is already in the pocket of the globalists.

Then finally there's Russia and China. Satan probably has a winter home in one and a summer villa in the other. How those two giants will figure in this deal is interesting. I don't know nearly enough to even guess.

Now, every country is where they want them - weak, broke, indebted, dependent, ruled by those loyal to the globalists.

At this point it's easy to start a worldwide war and assure the outcome. None of the puppets will be fighting in it, they all will be working toward the same goal, betraying the countries and people they rule over. Can't go into the specifics of the war - not enough knowledge.

Out of the chaos emerges a charismatic leader from ? who puts an end to the destruction, but only after 100s of millions have been killed. Anyone with any power will do exactly what he asks - it's all been set up that way. Finally, peace comes to the broken world.

Then this peacemaker proposes a grand plan for a wonderful new world in which there will never again be the possibility of any more wars or suffering or inequality. The war wearied masses cheer and rejoice. There is no one left alive who isn't too damned shocked, destitute and powerless to lift a finger to stop it.

There is no opposition to the New World Order at its inception.

Blogger Markku May 12, 2013 12:12 AM  

FALPhil sets up a self-contradictory strawman and mocks it like he's refuted someone else's claims. The only claim he's refuted is of his own invention, and one not even he believes.

Sure - he Ashered about it. But it is still connected to the reality that most us, when we hear about a government project, expect that it will be spectacularly screwed up. This is because we're dealing with the implementers, and not the planning minority that's in the know.

So, in different contexts I might refer to "the government" as master manipulators or as hopeless dimwits. But I wouldn't be talking about the same people.

Anonymous jay c May 12, 2013 12:12 AM  

So I come to voxday and see a post about how I should be looking for conspiracies. And this post? It has 69 comments.

Whoa!

Coincidence? I don't think so.

Blogger Markku May 12, 2013 12:14 AM  

just try to do anything with 100% compliance.

I've heard this referred to työmiehen kosto, "worker's revenge". It's when he gets pissed off when enough bullshit is thrown his way and starts following all the rules of his workplace. With the obvious results.

Blogger Markku May 12, 2013 12:22 AM  

Out of the chaos emerges a charismatic leader from ?

He might even start reducing some of that vibrancy when the pendulum is swinging the other way. This might be exactly why it is pushed towards completely unsustainable levels. It was always meant to be temporary. It will then absolutely guarantee that the Strong Man is adored when the time comes.

Obviously Christians will get the same treatment. But hey, that's just the new zeitgeist. All these "religions" belonged to a past age, the failures of which you can see from all the monkey business. No, the Age of Aquarius requires some cleanup work.

Anonymous Anonagain May 12, 2013 12:50 AM  

He might even start reducing some of that vibrancy when the pendulum is swinging the other way. This might be exactly why it is pushed towards completely unsustainable levels.

I completely forgot about the internal strife that's being created now. That certainly is part of the plan now to weaken the sovereign nations from within. Diversity is great for creating all kinds of social dysfunctions that big government can then use as excuses to grab more power and control over the people.

That's a good point. How much diversity and political correctness will exist in the New World Order? It's hard to know the state of the world at the end of such a disaster as the worldwide war, so it will be difficult to predict the social dynamics taking place when the NWO gets going.

I can't put myself in their place so I can't predict what they'll do. I try to imagine it but I draw a complete blank. My brain does not compute absolute power of the kind that the NWO elites will be wielding, nor the machinations of their evil minds.

Anonymous TJ May 12, 2013 12:52 AM  

Someone responded to Dan's tweet with:
"Conspiracies happen, just can't be maintained."

You mean like the mafia?

The mafia is multi-generational just like the bigger family
dynasties of the elite mafia.

Anonymous TJ May 12, 2013 1:12 AM  

It's not Government. It's the bankers.

I hate the words "government conspiracy"
It is not a government conspiracy but an elite/satanic family conspiracy.

"Government conspiracy" are the 2 words that get people to dispose of even thinking about it further. They immediately imagine it impossible that all government workers would be in on it. And it is impossible.

But what is possible, is the controlling all the top positions that command all others.

If you want to control the direction of a company you control the board of directors. No one else involved with the company has to be in on it. Not even the CEO if he wants to keep his job. They will follow directives without knowing the "why"...or else look for a new job.



Anonymous Anonagain May 12, 2013 1:34 AM  

But what is possible, is the controlling all the top positions that command all others.

Trickle down conspiracy.

Anonymous Hyperphrenius May 12, 2013 2:05 AM  

@Markku

So, in different contexts I might refer to "the government" as master manipulators or as hopeless dimwits. But I wouldn't be talking about the same people.

Ah, gotchya. The government is made up of lots of different people, and it's entirely possible that some of them might be incompetent, while others are not. So the prime ministers and presidents can be "the government", and so can mentally defective ex-convict Somali immigrant affirmative action hiree postal workers. One group could be made up of scheming geniuses, the other of blaring retards. It takes all kinds to make a government.

Anonymous Dr. Doom May 12, 2013 2:07 AM  

All of you have watched too many movies with evil geniuses to realize the dull reality of the situation. The Grand Conspiracy is already known and spelt out in the supposed forgery The Protocols of The Learned Elders of Zion, and their playbook is the Frankfurt School with Alinsky's Rules for Radicals.
I'm not sure at this point it could even be called a Conspiracy Theory as just about anyone with an I.Q. over 100 knows about it. However, its not going well.
Consider that the last Presidents of the United States were George H.W. Bush, Bill "Bubba" Clinton, George W. Bush and now Barack Hussein Obama! These people are already scraping the Bottom of the Barrel.
The EU is broke, the U.S. Dollar is losing its value, and tiny rogue states with Nothing to Lose like North Korea and Iran are getting Nuclear Weapons. The Trillions of Phony Funny Money is near completely worthless and the Global Economy has skipped off the tracks never to work again.
War is the Last Desperate Act of people who cannot get their necks out of the ever tightening noose of an angry mob that is beginning to realize that they've been robbed. The Ponzi Scheme is nearing The End, and the banksters don't have anywhere left to run!
You would like to believe that there are some master puppeteers that have everything under control and that its all going as planned, but seriously have you been watching the puppet show lately? There is Panic in the Air! Everyone is on pins and needles waiting for the Collapse!
These people think of themselves as Anarchists, well Now its Anarchy!

Anonymous Telluride May 12, 2013 2:22 AM  

People conspired to make Lee Harvey Oswald a Patsy.

Nixon and others conspired to cover up Watergate.

Cheney et al conspired to fix evidence for war.

THESE are real conspiracies.


The moon landing conspiracy is fantasy.

Blogger IM2L844 May 12, 2013 2:28 AM  

The Ponzi Scheme is nearing The End, and the banksters don't have anywhere left to run!

The 1% banksters are just second tier useful idiots.

It was reported that the estimated net worth of the Rothschild family in 1850 was 6 billion in USD. I think it would be fair to assume, with that kind of influence, they have experience an above average annual ROI over the last 163 years. Thinks about it. This takes a little while to get you head wrapped around. If there is a collapse, where is the wealth going to go? It's not going to simply disappear.

Anonymous Telluride May 12, 2013 2:34 AM  

"There is Panic in the Air! Everyone is on pins and needles waiting for the Collapse!"

I wouldn't say "everyone". Just the nuts. And the folks that think the moon landings didn't happen.....Oh, wait...That's redundant.

Anonymous Mr. Pea May 12, 2013 2:38 AM  

Dr. Doom, the destruction of our economies IS the plan. War IS the plan. Sure, biblically, it will backfire on them... but there it is. And besides, someone has to worship the Beast.

Millions will cry for peace on there knees... and he will give them the system for a price, and a season.

Funny how people ignore such things as the Bilderbergers, Lucis Trust, Club of Rome... all working for the same end... and succeeding.

Blogger IM2L844 May 12, 2013 2:49 AM  

I wouldn't say "everyone". Just the nuts.

You probably think it's normal to have a poster of Rachel Maddow on the ceiling above your bed.

Anonymous VryeDenker May 12, 2013 2:50 AM  

From what I see in my own country, government officials are deliberately selected for corruptability (ineptness is just a bonus). Government is just another tool, it is not the source of the conspiracy. Follow the trail of money. The one who holds the purse makes the rules. And government's main source of quick cash is a loan from the IMF or its like.( The taxpayer merely gets to pay back these loans)

Anonymous TJ May 12, 2013 3:44 AM  

Dr. Doom, the destruction of our economies IS the plan. War IS the plan. Sure, biblically, it will backfire on them... but there it is. And besides, someone has to worship the Beast.

Agreed.

The goal is to everything so corrupted (science, religion, morals, human relationships, dogs loving cats) that people will be craving for a savior.

Then the "externalization of the hierarchy"(1, the satanic elite?) can come about with the anti-Christ as our "savior".

Since satan is a counterfeit of God (wanted to show himself as God) I always had a feeling the mark of the beast won't be a chip but a mark or tattoo related to Rev 3:12 (the number of man is 6):

"Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God(6), and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem (6), which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. (6)"


(1)
Madam Blavatsky (The Secret Doctrine) and Alice Bailey (The Externalization of the Hierarchy) wrote extensively concerning the “externalization of the hierarchy” which would be the precursor to the coming of the Christ. Both affirmed that adepts would transverse the planet prior to and in preparation of the coming New Age Messiah.

Anonymous kat hak sung May 12, 2013 3:51 AM  

Told y'all.

Anonymous E. PERLINE May 12, 2013 8:31 AM  

It was a conspiracy the made Obama a senator and a presidential candidate. His charm and popularity convinced the whole Democratic party to adopt his unworkable programs.

Now the charm is running out. The popularity is running out. And the programs are an embarrassment. The shelf life of that conspiracy is ending sooner than expected.

Anonymous Susan May 12, 2013 9:20 AM  

What I enjoy mainly about conspiracy theories is all the creative thinking that goes on here when the subject is brought up as a subject of a posting.

TJ, I have always thought that with all the amnesty issues going on right now, that one of the solutions offered to identify people who are citizens, or immigrants who are here legally, would be a special ID card with a microchip or bar code. It would be different from regular ID. I have seen talk about Oregon and several other states working with the feds on something like that.

And your comment about everything being corrupted is the goal so we will embrace the antichrist is right on the mark TJ.

Anonymous Anonagain May 12, 2013 11:35 AM  

His charm and popularity convinced the whole Democratic party to adopt his unworkable programs.

Please. It was and is Obama's abundant supply of melanin making Democrats fall over themselves to support whatever inanity he proposes.

Anonymous Jack Amok May 12, 2013 1:03 PM  

You are assuming that incompetence is so total that nothing EVER works as it is "intended". That is a statistical anomaly. You are asking me to believe that those people are competent enough to keep their jobs and feed themselves but not competent enough to ever get anything work-related right. That is cognitive dissonance, my friend.

P-dawg, I think I see where our disconnect is. At the current size of the federal government, and with the current blind-eye toward corruption ethos in it, there's almost zero chance of anything good coming naturally out of it. Frankly it would take a rather impressive conspiracy to produce a positive benefit for the nation.

There are simply too many grifter, con artists, and monomaniacle blue noses in government, too many layers of implementation, and too much laziness among the leadership, for "good" to survive.

The old saying that all it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing is wrong. Evil, bad things, chaos and entropy, those are the default states of nature. It takes work to make something else happen. Houses don't spontaneously build themselves every once in a while - it takes a dedicated effort to cause a house to exist. It doesn't take very many bad apples to cause a construction crew to fail in their efforts, at least not if the people running the crew don't throw the trouble makers out when they identify them.

The problem isn't conspiracy in our corridors of power, it's failure to address the corruption, big and small. You don't need a conspiracy to commit evil when nobody gets in trouble for doing evil.

Blogger FALPhil May 12, 2013 4:05 PM  

"FALPhil sets up a self-contradictory strawman and mocks it like he's refuted someone else's claims. The only claim he's refuted is of his own invention, and one not even he believes."

You'd be wrong.

I actually believe that there is no conspiracy and that government (at least in the USA) is populated by people who, for the most part, do not have very good critical thinking skills.

Here is my reasoning. There is no conspiracy because there does not need to be one. The promise of power attracts those to government who want to exercise power over others, and those types of people detest democracy, representative or otherwise, and most especially libertarianism. These people are incapable of following their desires for others to the logical conclusion, which is totalitarianism. What we have is a trend, or maybe a movement, not a conspiracy, because so many in government, from top to bottom, believe that their way is the only way and will tolerate no dissent. Hence the corollary trend to throw the rule of law out the window.

Therefore, I refute the claim that there is a conspiracy. A conspiracy would be superfluous in this case. And, I refute the claim that anyone in government is a diabolical manipulator, because, again, there is no need.

Blogger Markku May 12, 2013 5:38 PM  

It's not that they aren't tolerating dissent, it's that the plan is coming together all over the world in such a synchronized way and from so many angles, that it is incongruent with the incompetence that we normally see from governments.

Anonymous Jack Amok May 12, 2013 6:37 PM  

...it's that the plan is coming together all over the world in such a synchronized way and from so many angles...

It is funny though, that we see that same thing so differently. Where you see a plan coming together from many angles, I see it all falling apart from every angle.

The bottom line is that the US economy and defense umbrella provided the float for the rest of the Western world. Eurocrats could bungle their way hither and yon and money or troop from the US would paper over the problems. The dirtwallas of the Mid-East could spit at one another and eventually the US would throw up a road block before it got out of hand, and then pay off enough people to create some temporary stability again.

But 2008 was the last gasp for the US. We're out of own reserve, we've burned through our own design margin. So after seven decades of the US refilling the tanks of the rest of the world when they ran dry, we're dry ourselves. Nothing left to give. And of course, Europe and the ME never used any of those second, third, and eighteenth chances the US bought them to fix anything, so they started the plunge into chaos as soon as we couldn't cut them another check.

You go broke slowly at first, then all at once. We're seeing the all at once part now.




Blogger Markku May 12, 2013 6:41 PM  

We're probably not thinking of the same kind of plan. I think they want at least 50% of the world population dead, possibly a lot more.

Blogger  Trust Ted get misled. Gamma secret kings reddit May 12, 2013 8:49 PM  

I would suggest the war gamers are the best tacticians and strategists; the man who can boldly see past what is presented to him just might save himself and his family. What else are the more intelligent men supposed to play? So of course all options and theories as to why things happen in the manner they do are explored, all things considered and such.

Anyways, the common farcical repetitious narratives are not believable or even coherent

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