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Sunday, June 16, 2013

Mailvox: the lessons of history

JD demonstrates that one of the benefits of aging is that one has the ability to look back and determine who was, and who was not, correct:
At college in 1980, my Government Studies prof also served as Secretary of the Socialist Workers Party of Minnesota (the real one, not the DFL). We clashed over Robert Mugabe, just coming to power in Zimbabwe, he asserting it spelled salvation and I, that it spelled ruin.

I e-mailed him a year or two ago, asking if I could get a retroactive grade increase since my predictions had proven more accurate than his. His explanation was that he truly believed Mugabe was an agrarian reformer whose program of taking land from Whites to give to Blacks would benefit the country; but things just hadn't worked out as hoped.

I didn't bother to send him the famous Heinlein quote about Bad Luck. And I didn't really expect the grade change. But it certainly was satisfying to say "I told you so" 30 years later.
I doubt it will take until 2043 for "anti-racists" and those who are blinded by rage at the suggestion that not all human populations are equally civilized to ruefully explain that they truly believed that Africans were every bit as capable of maintaining and sustaining advanced technological civilizations as Europeans.

The question is: how many human beings will have to die by starvation and mass slaughter in America, Africa, and Europe before they consider the possibility that they might be wrong?  Based on how long it took the same sort of people to begin considering that perhaps communism was not, in fact, capable of economically outperforming capitalism, my estimate would be around 250 million.

It is an interesting question to direct towards my critics, though.  Is there any number of deaths caused by starvation and mass slaughter in a five-year period as a result of the structural breakdown of society in one or more countries that would convince you to at least consider my time-to-civilization hypothesis?  If so, how many?

Labels: ,

85 Comments:

Anonymous Dc June 16, 2013 5:08 PM  

Sim Civilization 2.0 Vox Edition.

Anonymous Whitey Herzog June 16, 2013 5:09 PM  

Well, it would have to be more than 5.4 million since the anti-racist-racists treat the ethnic genocide of the Second Congo War that only ended in the far away days of 2008 as a non-event.

Wrong color don't you know.

Anonymous A Visitor June 16, 2013 5:23 PM  

how many human beings will have to die by starvation and mass slaughter in America, Africa, and Europe before they consider the possibility that they might be wrong? Too many.

You know, I was talking with my grandfather about this today, about how the country is going to hell in a handbasket and I reminded him how he once told me he lived through the best epoch of American history. I don't have to wait to know; I already know he's right.

It reminds me of the discussion the half-white half Mexican (though she looks white) chick and I had at the store the other day: people routinely die all over Pakistan on a daily basis and yet nobody sheds a tear. Something like Sandy Hook happens and they want to take away our weapons.

My estimate would be on the low end, actually. I'd say one to two million. We're so insulated from the world's horrors in the U.S. (which is a good thing) that if something horrible did happen here and one to two million died in a mass slaughter or starvation, that'd be enough for those in power in academia, the media, et. al. (maybe not the "anti-racists") to realize that the ideology they'd been following was wrong. I know the academics don't all genuinely believe the ideology they peddle; they just peddle it because it's hip. I'd say the same goes for the media.

Anonymous Samson June 16, 2013 5:26 PM  

Off-topic:

Vox, what is with these books that you keep recommending, or at least reviewing, that are only available on Kindle? Is this related to what you've been referring to as "gate-keeping" by the printers of actual paper books? I'm interested in reading some of the books you discuss, but I'm not about to buy a Kindle for them. It's frustrating.

Anonymous Leap of a Beta June 16, 2013 5:34 PM  

I'd say food riots in major cities with large amounts of diversity will be needed before the consideration is made here in the U.S. There are simply too many people willing to go balls deep in the socialist agenda that is willing to sell itself to anyone and everyone for the right price. With a shout of victimhood as a tip on the DL. So, riots over food in L.A, Chicago, and New York.

Which isn't hard to imagine, with the amount of people on food stamps right now and what looks to be coming down the line for immigration reform. Now that republicans are flirting with ideas of reform, with only a few hold out states overriding federal law, such reform would radically change the workforce that makes up our agricultural sectors and low level service industries. Prices would inflate on food when farmers have a harder time being able to pay employees, inflation (and debt) already being a problem issue with our economy, and increased unemployment among those 18-30 without the in debt boomers able to pay for them any longer. And government just not able to keep up on farmer subsidies needed nor the food stamps.

At least, that's my prediction. Which is why I'm buying a gun, looking to learn more trade skills, and considering a move out of Chicago.

Anonymous Catan June 16, 2013 5:38 PM  

I'm interested in reading some of the books you discuss, but I'm not about to buy a Kindle for them. It's frustrating.

I have a kindle app on my phone. You don't actually have to own a kindle device.

Anonymous Dc June 16, 2013 5:41 PM  

"But I'm not about to buy a Kindle for them. It's frustrating."

There's a free Kindle app for your PC over at Amazon.

Anonymous FUBAR Nation Ben June 16, 2013 5:51 PM  

It's incredibly distressing to realize that the country you grew up in is screwed and the fact that nothing can be done is depressing.

Anonymous Anonagain June 16, 2013 5:54 PM  

Someone told me just yesterday that there are some prophesies concerning massive natural disasters about to hit the US in 2013-2014 - specifically California completely breaking off and becoming an island, and a massive tsunami wiping out the East Coast.

That level of disaster is not one which Leftists can really take advantage of. The system would be shattered if DC goes under. And the fact that a majority of the Leftist trash supporting this rotten system would be wiped out would make it difficult for Leftists to regain control.

The best laid plans of mice and Leftists...

Blogger El Borak June 16, 2013 6:01 PM  

Is there any number of deaths caused by starvation and mass slaughter...

It will still be whitey's fault. After all, even after tens of millions of deaths under communism, there are still plenty who argue that the reasons it hasn't worked is that it has not been really tried.

If maths and objective measurements had any effect on leftists, they would not be leftists.

Blogger JACIII June 16, 2013 6:02 PM  

Is there any number of deaths caused by starvation and mass slaughter in a five-year period as a result of the structural breakdown of society in one or more countries that would convince you to at least consider my time-to-civilization hypothesis? If so, how many?

That could never happen.
-The Warren

Anonymous Anonagain June 16, 2013 6:06 PM  

I confess that I was not dismayed by the possibility of a massive natural disaster wiping out the East and West coasts. Skepticism leaning towards hope would better describe my reaction.

Anonymous VD June 16, 2013 6:09 PM  

Vox, what is with these books that you keep recommending, or at least reviewing, that are only available on Kindle? Is this related to what you've been referring to as "gate-keeping" by the printers of actual paper books?

Yes, they are only published as ebooks through the channel that Amazon provides and allows independent authors to circumnavigate the gatekeepers of conventional publishing. There is no longer anyone in a position to keep them from reaching interested readers.

You don't need to buy a Kindle to read them. You can simply download a Kindle app for your PC or your Android phone.

Anonymous kh123 June 16, 2013 6:21 PM  

Waiting for disaster to fix all woes is about the same as relying on democracy alone or someone else's arms to ensure freedom. Israel seems to have had to step out from Egypt before the waters parted.

Anonymous Matthew Walker June 16, 2013 6:21 PM  

Borak is right. If Detroit is all Whitey's fault, forget it. If mass horror bothered them, they wouldn't be on the left. They *still* go into a narcissistic rage if you criticise communism too much.

Anonymous Die Hard Progressive June 16, 2013 6:30 PM  

Is there any number of deaths caused by starvation and mass slaughter in a five-year period as a result of the structural breakdown of society in one or more countries that would convince you to at least consider my time-to-civilization hypothesis?

Just one more...

Anonymous Anonagain June 16, 2013 6:31 PM  

Waiting for disaster to fix all woes is about the same as relying on democracy alone or someone else's arms to ensure freedom. Israel seems to have had to step out from Egypt before the waters parted.

Actually, the Israelites were indeed waiting for their deliverer. They stepped out of Egypt and into freedom in the arms of their savior, Moses. And it was natural disasters created by God that finally forced Pharoah to let them go.

Considering that nobody mentioned waiting on any natural disaster, your example was bad and your point irrelevant.

Anonymous Catan June 16, 2013 6:45 PM  

They *still* go into a narcissistic rage if you criticise communism too much.

This blows my mind more than anything they do.

On Reddit, I posted a link to a Democrat taking a lifetime achievement award from the Communist Party, and the comment thread promptly filled up with 'McCarthy! McCarthy!" and "How dare anyone have a different opinion than you."

They see Communists as a protected victim class, just like gays. It is astounding. That alone should be enough to make any rational individual step back and recognize that leftism is insane.

Anonymous Catan June 16, 2013 6:53 PM  

Lefty logic: The fact that Joe McCarthy once harshly questioned a few Communists means that Commies are adorable bunnies that wouldn't harm anyone, and you're a bigot for even mentioning them.

That makes me think. Leftism has a worldview that distinguishes between the oppressors and the oppressed, right?

Well, it looks to me like this is the core of their illogic, because in that worldview, the oppressed can never also be an oppressor. This leads to ridiculousness like their defense of Communists and Islam. Since their enemy oppressors are also oppressing Commies and Islam, that means those two groups are the automatic friends of the left.

This is the core of their mental retardation. The oppressed often become oppressors, and their worldview simply does not account for that.

if only we could teach more young people these simple truths.

Blogger IM2L844 June 16, 2013 6:56 PM  

California completely breaking off and becoming an island

If I remember correctly the westward side of the San Andreas Fault is moving north at the relative rate of close to an inch and a half a year and the southern portion has somewhere in the region of a 60% probability of having a >6.8 magnitude quake sometime before 2033. The probabilities for the northern portion are significantly less than that. From a Geologists perspective (doesn't get much love around here), California is unequivocally not going to break off and become an island without divine intervention which, on the other hand, I don't completely rule out the possibility of.

Anonymous Red June 16, 2013 6:56 PM  

The left hates civilized people. They allowed the Rwandan genocide because the people it was killing was civilized blacks and only when the tutsis got their shit together and started paying back the savages did they step in to stop it. In the Congo UN trained black militia's continue to murder, rape, and kill tutsis at will.

They love criminals over the law abiding, the cowards over the brave, and family dysfunction over intact families. They are the destroyers of civilization and they will do any deed, tell any lie, and support any evil that will achieve their goals.

Blogger James Dixon June 16, 2013 7:04 PM  

> t's incredibly distressing to realize that the country you grew up in is screwed and the fact that nothing can be done is depressing.

No, the depressing part is knowing that there are lots of things which could be done and knowing that none of them will be.

Anonymous Catan June 16, 2013 7:14 PM  

They love criminals over the law abiding, the cowards over the brave, and family dysfunction over intact families. They are the destroyers of civilization and they will do any deed, tell any lie, and support any evil that will achieve their goals.

Many will laugh at your statement. They have no idea how true it is.

The left genuinely believes that humanity is good natured by default, at its core.

Therefore, the left believes that anything held in high regard by society (nuclear family, intact culture) is overvalued. They believe that anything that is distrusted and disliked by society, is undervalued.

Since they believe humanity is by nature good, they seek to get rid of ALL of our 'biases' against behaviors we prefer over others.

This automatically leads them to always side with evil over good, lazy over productive, wrong over right. Since they think things just AUTOMATICALLY work out, they think that 'spreading acceptance around' from only things seen as 'good' to things seen as 'bad' too, it will make EVERY choice work better.

It's insanity.

Anonymous meg00K June 16, 2013 7:16 PM  

Many are self-published electronically, so there is no print copy or copies available on nook or apple because either the author is exclusive with kindle or hasnt bothered to learn how to get the books in print or on other platforms. I would blame the authors but I did the same stupid thing with my first book. C'est la vie.

Anonymous Catan June 16, 2013 7:19 PM  

A perfect example of my previous point:

To a leftist, a law breaker just had a hard childhood, went through trauma early in life, etc. They feel pity and want to help the law breaker with money and re-education.

A successful middle class family with solid jobs and income just had a good upbringing to a leftist. They were lucky. They didn't earn what they have, they were just lucky enough to be born into a good life path. To make matters worse, they think they EARNED it! This family gets no sympathy from the left.

Therefore, these people need to be attacked and taxed more, because evening out opportunity will allow those good natured law breakers to be better people, because they're only breaking the law because they had it hard growing up.

Therefore, to a leftist, punishing the shit out of successful people to give the loot to law breakers will reduce crime and help the economy as the law breakers become contributing members of society.

It's nuts. But look at their policies. It's exactly what they do.

Anonymous meg00k June 16, 2013 7:21 PM  

Americans never admit their mistakes; we double down. Ergo Obama 2012.

Blogger Rantor June 16, 2013 7:28 PM  

The mid 80s famine in Ethiopia caused largely by government policy.
Zimbabwe going from major exporter of food to importer with high prices and distribution problems, regional hunger and starvation the result.
Zaire, now Dem Rep Congo, famines caused by bad policy.
South Africa, driving white farmers out, agricultural production is down significantly.
There are about 50 more nations in Africa... Need we go on?

Anonymous Dot connector June 16, 2013 7:34 PM  

OT -

Drone vs Samsung Galaxy S4. Samsung wins.

Anonymous farmer Tom June 16, 2013 7:43 PM  

How many have to die?

Can't remember where I read it, but some enviro/leftist/elitist suggested once, that population of about 2 million was all the world really needed, and that the rest of the people were a waste of space and recources.

Blogger IM2L844 June 16, 2013 7:45 PM  

...those who are blinded by rage at the suggestion that not all human populations are equally civilized...

Other than a handful of outliers, it is virtually impossible to even discuss this with a liberal who is not only absolutely determined to dismiss out of hand your methodologies and metrics without the least bit of scrutiny, they are also more than willing to temporarily abandon, dismiss and/or ignore their own methodologies and metrics whenever they conflict with their ideologies. It's bizarre. It's unadulterated schizophrenia - pure and simple.

Anonymous kh123 June 16, 2013 8:00 PM  

"Considering that nobody mentioned waiting on any natural disaster..."

Notice the lack of term "natural" in the original comment. Who was addressing you anyhow.

Anonymous Anonymous June 16, 2013 8:08 PM  

They will never, ever admit they were wrong, even if civilization is in ruins around them. What will instead happen is they will convince themselves that their ideas were right, but, something unforseen happened. Meanwhile, they'll conduct their lives in whatever manner they find acceptable, even as they spout off platitudes they don't actually live by.

Anonymous ENthePeasant June 16, 2013 8:12 PM  

If you divided the more enlightened people of the country from the doctrinaire socialist assclowns you'd only get a small reprieve before the assclowns would flood into the capitalist area bringing their women to vote down common sense and destroy your success. White women equal failure.

I've had this argument many times about Detroit. Socialist Assclowns will never give up the notion that it's not working. NEVER!!! Detroit should tell you all you need to know. Socialist assclowns destroys the richest city in America... and they're not done. Violence and war is the only way to keep them in the places they deserve.

Anonymous Anonagain June 16, 2013 8:21 PM  

Notice the lack of term "natural" in the original comment.

Notice the lack of term "waiting" in any comment until your brought it up.

Blogger Doom June 16, 2013 8:27 PM  

You are assuming all of the people arguing for equality to be legitimate. Some of them mean to create chaos. Others see it as a means of breaking down the current system in hopes of grabbing power. If I had to guess, I would say most of those who are close enough to some levers of power to do what you suggest are of those types I describe. They know but either don't care, or... really, that IS the point.

A capitalist wants capitalism to continue. For himself, his children, and his neighbors. It is a chance based on work. A socialist of whatever sort, is like the guy at Vegas who is throwing his money, car, and house out, hoping he will hit it big, money/power for nothing. If he can't get it, he hopes some other sucker will. They really don't care, they have nothing to lose that they won't throw away. Sure, there are rich communists, but they think they will be immune. It's a disorder.

Well, and toss in all the bureaucrats who will do what they are told, whatever they are told, and do it as efficiently as any union. Which is why government is so big. It's a grinder, not a point and click. It's stupid, just crushing. Perfect employment for single mothers, women in general, and men too weak to make it in a real job. Uhrm, the majority of "workers", come to think of it.

Anonymous Stickwick June 16, 2013 8:34 PM  

OT: Hollywood's completely broken. It's all about DVD sales, apparently, which tanked in the last decade. There is some mention of males opting for video games instead of DVDs, and how this has contributed to the problem, but IMO people in the movie industry are not paying enough attention to this. How much has the feminization and political correctness of movies turned males off? The big problem for studios right now is that people are no longer willing to plunk down $15 for those little silver discs, presumably because they can rent the movies on VoD. The focus is on how technology is disrupting what used to be a workable business model; but this doesn't seem to be the whole picture. People had the option to rent before, and that didn't impact DVD sales much. And, most importantly, people sure as heck are willing to plunk down $50-$60 for just one video game. It seems like a parallel can be drawn between what's happening in the movie industry and what's happening with book sales in SF/F. The business model for both is changing, and maybe the big studios/publishers aren't adapting very well. But one big factor that few people are willing to talk about is how, after the products became feminized and PC, sales dropped noticeably. Everyone talks about how women's preferences drive the marketplace, but this seems to suggest the male audience is rather important.

Anonymous the bandit June 16, 2013 8:37 PM  

Someone told me just yesterday that there are some prophesies concerning massive natural disasters about to hit the US in 2013-2014 - specifically California completely breaking off and becoming an island, and a massive tsunami wiping out the East Coast.

Did you ask for the name and home address of the prophet, so that, in 2015, when there's not been an Atlantic tsunami and the only break-off with California was political, you can go lynch the lying blasphemer?

Anonymous Anonagain June 16, 2013 8:39 PM  

Who was addressing you anyhow.

As there was no other mention of the term "disaster" until my comment, it's understandable that I would think your use of the same term would have something to do with my comment.

Blogger IM2L844 June 16, 2013 8:46 PM  

Excellent observations, Stickwick. I would add that they are not helping themselves by taking cheap shots at Christians at every opportunity either. I know I have been put off more than once. I may spend $3.99 to watch a VoD with that sort of crap, but I don't want it in my library.

Anonymous liljoe June 16, 2013 8:46 PM  

"The system would be shattered if DC goes under"

please don't threaten me with a good time

Anonymous Cheddarman June 16, 2013 8:56 PM  

I wonder how Russia will fare in the next hundred or so years. I have never been there, and have no objective first hand means of judging their civilization. However, it appears as if Putin and the Russian oligarchs are intent on preserving the Russian culture and are giving the Orthodox Church breathing room. Unlike the U.S. and Western Europe, whose oligarchs seem intent on destroying the civilization they are actively parasitizing.

If the Russians had respect for private property rights, i would consider moving there or somewhere else in eastern Europe such as Poland if my business idea(s) take off in the near future.

I think it will be great news for eastern Europe when the U.S. is no longer able to dictate policy to them. They will have no lack of will for dealing with any trouble causing immigrants/muslim populations in their midst.

I would not be surprised to see a Putin-like character coming out of Russia, and cleansing Europe of non-Europeans some time in this century.

Anonymous paradox June 16, 2013 8:56 PM  

It's funny that the attendees to the this year's American Renaissance conference where more diverse and tolerant than the antifa crowd.


Matthew Heimbach gave a very good speech at the 2013 Council of Conservative Citizens.

Anonymous cheddarman June 16, 2013 9:12 PM  

Vox,

Your time to civilization hypothesis seems pretty solid when one considers European peoples.

However, as the Africans have a much lower IQ than whites (about 70 points for sub saharan africans lving in Africa, 85 for those living in the U.S.), they have a serious IQ gap between them and and places where civilization has taken root. They need to pass through a serious refining process that would select for intelligence.

Anonymous DonReynolds June 16, 2013 9:17 PM  

I knew Robert Mugabe of ZANU was a murdering savage when he was a rebel, especially on the day he and his men shot down a commercial airliner and went to the crash scene and bayoneted the survivors to death. The foreign media did not bat an eye. Any rational being could see where this was going. (No one remembers Joshua Nkomo of ZAPU anymore.)

And the answer is.....Robert Mugabe, Joshua Nkomo, Maurice Nyagumbo, Edgar Tekere, and Ndabaningi Sithole....all rebel leaders were imprisoned by the Rhodesian government UNTIL 1975, when the pigmy Prime Minister B.J. Vorster of South Afrika insisted on their release, under pressure from HENRY KISSINGER. The rest is history.

Blogger jamsco June 16, 2013 9:18 PM  

"Is there any number of deaths caused by starvation and mass slaughter in a five-year period as a result of the structural breakdown of society in one or more countries that would convince you to at least consider my time-to-civilization hypothesis?"

I'm wondering - could you tell us what your time-to-civilization hypothesis is?

Because Africans have only been in the civilized world for 200 years ... what?

Anonymous cheddarman June 16, 2013 9:27 PM  

Jamsco,

Africans have been in the U.S. since about the time of the founding of the Jamestown colony in Virginia in 1607.

I think his time to civilization rule is based on time it took the Germanic peoples of Europe to embrace civilization, and is about 1000 years.

Anonymous Rantor June 16, 2013 9:53 PM  

From Spengler (Asia Times)
The nations of Europe stopped having children because they lost their Christian faith (as Mary Eberstadt argues in a brilliant new book, How the West Really Lost God, they also lost their faith because they stopped having children). As Christianity sloughs off the declining peoples of the West, some of them cling instead to ethnic identity. Rosenzweig wrote that once Christianity taught the Gentiles the Hebrew promise of eternal life, they abandoned their ancient fatalism about their inevitable extinction of their tribe.

Rantor believes that some of the great success at civilizing nations is due to the church's effort to Christianize them. Now, as we de-Christianize ourselves, stop having children we are surprised that those we once would have loved and shared the gospel with, we now fear and write off as lost. We are in a difficult age in the west. Facing a large economic disruption that should further break down society. We can only hope that out of the ashes of the mess we have inherited, built or are piling onto, Christ's Church will once again grow, blossom and spread the gospel in the US, Europe, and everywhere else.

I have little hope that the post-Christian US can remain a civilized US for long. The post-Christian US and EU will not care that socialized, centrally planned African states can't feed their people and are starving. Sure they will send some food aid, but no larger lessons have been learned or will be learned in the short term. Only lessons acceptable to the rulers will get any attention.

Anonymous Conservative Language Institute of America June 16, 2013 9:59 PM  

Part of the secular religion of the left is their zealous belief in evolution. But somehow when it comes to race, the left believe that evolution stops at the neck.

Anonymous zen0 June 16, 2013 10:12 PM  

A Visitor says: My estimate would be on the low end, actually. I'd say one to two million. We're so insulated from the world's horrors in the U.S. (which is a good thing) that if something horrible did happen here and one to two million died in a mass slaughter or starvation, that'd be enough for those in power in academia, the media, et. al. (maybe not the "anti-racists") to realize that the ideology they'd been following was wrong.

Number of abortions since Roe V. Wade = 56.3 million
Notice any change yet?

PS...worldwide since 1980 = 1.3 Billion

Hitler would shrink in shame at his flaccid fervor.

Anonymous Sqw June 16, 2013 10:28 PM  

Theodore Beale's IQ is 92. Average black person is 137.

Anonymous DonReynolds June 16, 2013 10:35 PM  

Sqw....Theodore Beale's IQ is 92. Average black person is 137.

It is after 9pm sonny. High time for you to put on your Granimals, brush your braces, and get to bed....or there will be no bedtime story for you tonight.

Anonymous Anonymous June 16, 2013 10:42 PM  

"The question is: how many human beings will have to die by starvation and mass slaughter in America, Africa, and Europe before they consider the possibility that they might be wrong?"

You want to save these people?

I'm not against saving them though I wonder if on average they would be happier if Europeans never stepped foot on their continent.

Anonymous zen0 June 16, 2013 11:36 PM  

fenisistx: I wonder if on average they would be happier if Europeans never stepped foot on their continent.

It would make little difference. They would have been more overrun by Islamists without the Euro influence. The muslims are still running slave trades and slaughtering the villagers.

They could not defend themselves without the ability to sustain a civilization, and still can't.

Save your tears.

Anonymous Noah B. June 17, 2013 12:06 AM  

"Sqw....Theodore Beale's IQ is 92. Average black person is 137."

Father's day is very confusing in some circles.

Anonymous A Visitor June 17, 2013 12:13 AM  

Number of abortions since Roe V. Wade = 56.3 million
Notice any change yet?

PS...worldwide since 1980 = 1.3 Billion


Point taken, sir.

Anonymous Gen. Kong June 17, 2013 12:19 AM  

Given that the left and their vast rabbit warren continues to deny the murders of Marxists from Lenin to Kim Jong Un to this very day, I seriously doubt there is a kill-limit or similar point at which they would actually stop believing their precious lie - especially the nomenklatura. The French regime even today denies the slaughter of a large segment of the population of the Vendée region more than two centuries after the event. As I stated previously, Musloids are actually considerably less fanatical than the equalitarians. As much as they've sold big lie to the idiocracy, the squid-oligarchs likely never believed in such errant nonsense. The thing they do believe in is power for themselves - unlimited and absolute. Some of the warren might begin to re-consider when the vibrant break down the doors to perform the acts at which they excel, but then again there are always those rabbits like the parents of Amy Biehl, who set up a foundation to employ their daughter's killers.

Blogger Scott June 17, 2013 12:26 AM  

Based on how long it took the same sort of people to begin considering that perhaps communism was not, in fact, capable of economically outperforming capitalism

A fleeting moment it was when they began to consider. Based on:

1) the last several decades of indoctrination via public (and private) schools, the MSM, and most forms of entertainement

2) the apologetic attitude of communism shared by the reams (and reams) of professional Chinese engineers I work with

3) the number of disaffected russians that want communism back, and the fact that Putin is running the country

I'd say it's going to take a fuck ton more [fill in horror] than anyone can imagine.

Anonymous T14 June 17, 2013 12:33 AM  

As we are all being honest about race..

Is it race or religion that builds empires? The notoriously civilized Scandinavians have always had difficulty with religion. The Japanese even more so.

And, a bit closer to my heart...

"All Germans are godless at heart, too much of the forest and tress in their soul."

Meanwhile Birmingham, AL is far more religious than the richest enclaves of Seattle. Where would you rather walk through at night?

Anonymous dh June 17, 2013 12:36 AM  

Meanwhile Birmingham, AL is far more religious than the richest enclaves of Seattle. Where would you rather walk through at night?

Is this really true? I have found Seattle to be very religious.

Anonymous T14 June 17, 2013 12:50 AM  

Seattle and Portland compete for the least religious cities in America. The whole PNW is the atheist belt.

Also very white. Atheism is a white thing.

Anonymous Sensei June 17, 2013 12:55 AM  

All Germans are godless at heart, too much of the forest and trees in their soul.

Yes yes, Bonhoeffer and Luther and the Reformation and the German missionaries I know... closet pagans all of them. How could I have been confused on that point.

Though the countless godly German people of history were certainly rather fond of trees post-Gutenberg...

Blogger The Social Pathologist June 17, 2013 12:57 AM  

The thing that really sucks about all these late changes of mind is that those who supported Mugabe, Stalin, Ho Chi Minh etc never have to suffer the consequences of the policies. The fact that your professor simply shrugs his shoulders and says "oh I was wrong" in no way compensates for him being part of the enabling mechanism which bought Mugabe to power. Hanoi Jane for instance, gets to live in America whilst the Viet Cong gets to run Vietnam and all of their "re educational institutions."

These bastards should be called to account for their stupidity and made to eat their own cooking.

Anonymous Johnycomelately June 17, 2013 1:04 AM  

Race and culture are two different things.

Europe is an overlay of diverse haplogroups (R1a, I, R1b, E, J etc.) not to mention Roman population transfers.

The Africans aren't genetically inferior (they share some haplogroups with Europe), rather it is cultural.

Heck, wasn't it Marx that proposed that they needed to get rid of the Basques, Scots, Irish and the Serbs because they were 'backwards'.

Anonymous Roundtine June 17, 2013 1:11 AM  

I don't think they will ever change. They will become old though, and younger people will not believe their lies.

Anonymous Dr. Idle Spectator, Johns Hopkins Geriatric Medicine and Gerontology June 17, 2013 2:29 AM  

This post is just an excuse for Vox being old now. He reads from a cue card. He dropped from super to megaintelligence.

Anonymous Gen. Kong June 17, 2013 2:39 AM  

Social Pathologist:

These bastards should be called to account for their stupidity and made to eat their own cooking.

They should, but it's not going to ever happen as long as they (or - more accurately - those they serve) have the means to legally engage in massive systematic counterfeiting. If yours is the only team allowed to add zeros to their bank account, and all players at Satan's little monopoly game (the "free market") are forced at gunpoint to accept your bogus money as payment, there is really no practical limit to what, or whom, your side can buy. As we have seen over and over, there is no shortage of "conservatives", "Christians", "tea-party patriotards", and similar folks willing to accept the thirty pieces of silver (not even real silver in this case). I've not seen much criticism from the Evangelical amen corner of the idiocracy over the Banksta Banana Republick's unending crusade to make the ummah safe for feminism, sodomy and the Amurikan way - all the while ruthlessly purging and slaughtering the native Christians in the region who managed to survive even dhimmitude for centuries.

Anonymous Dr. Idle Spectator, Johns Hopkins Geriatric Medicine and Gerontology June 17, 2013 2:54 AM  

Using the NSA's new secret surveillance technology, I was able to get footage of Vox dancing at an Italian bar after too much red wine.

Macarena

Remember that dance hit from the '90s? Ooooooo-uh.

Anonymous Jack Amok June 17, 2013 3:07 AM  

after the products became feminized and PC, sales dropped noticeably. Everyone talks about how women's preferences drive the marketplace, but this seems to suggest the male audience is rather important.

I think the marketing myth that "women make 80% of purchasing decisions" was briefly true at the height of the old marriage system, where hordes of betas got married and then deferred lots of decisions to their wives. But it only lasted long enough for those women to figure out how to divorce their betas and destroy their financial stability.

Besides, anyone who's ever paid attention to anything would realize women don't in general buy DVDs. They prefer to go to the movies or watch some soap-opera on free TV. Women don't obsessively watch the same movie over and over (at least not after puberty). It's men who buy movie DVDs and watch them multiple times. It's men who like to hear repeated stories, who revel in immersing themselves in the familiar setting of a favorite book or movie. Women don't enjoy that because the drama is ruined once they know the outcome. "Been there, done that" for women. "Hey remember this scene, it's awesome" for men.

TV is the medium for women. It produces a steady stream of new dramas. "Oh, Downton Abbey is on! Oh, foo, it's a rerun. I guess I'll watch Gordon Ramsey yell at somebody instead..." The quality varies greatly, but it's a plain fact that the majority of women would rather watch a crappy new reality show episode than rewatch a brilliant movie they've already seen. Why on earth would they buy a DVD?

Anonymous Conservative Language Institute of America June 17, 2013 3:31 AM  

Leftists are mesmerized by their own thought-processes (I won't go so far as to call it thinking). Reality simply cannot make a dent into their inner worlds. Theories, studies, narratives, memes, they all consume the leftist in a fantasyland without end. These people will not give up their memes even on point of death. They are quite willing to sacrifice you, me, and everybody on the altar of sanctimonious liberal feel-goodism. Even if there were major riots and chaos in this country, I would not expect them to change.

Anonymous Vryedenker June 17, 2013 3:32 AM  

Two things:
1. South Africa has lost 20% of its white population so far. By the Grace of God this is mostly by emigration. And still no one gives a damn.

2. Those of you who know me on facebook will recall the newspaper clipping I posted of an African getting an enema from a guy in a mayor's sash next to the second largest highway in the country. Civilised? Nope.

Anonymous Athor Pel June 17, 2013 8:35 AM  

"Anonagain June 16, 2013 5:54 PM

Someone told me just yesterday that there are some prophesies concerning massive natural disasters about to hit the US in 2013-2014 - specifically California completely breaking off and becoming an island, and a massive tsunami wiping out the East Coast.
"



Here's a good one.

The Message for America

http://www.handofhelp.com/vision_1.php




" That level of disaster is not one which Leftists can really take advantage of. The system would be shattered if DC goes under. And the fact that a majority of the Leftist trash supporting this rotten system would be wiped out would make it difficult for Leftists to regain control.
"



Your first sentence isn't as prescient as you may think. Many federal agencies have been busily moving their headquarters facilities to Denver for a few years now. If DC went under it wouldn't matter for them. And you have to admit, the bureaucrats run the fedgov in the long term, not the senior executive level politicians. Use 'continuity of government' as a search term and see what comes back, pay attention to FEMA's role and to just how many executive orders kick in.

Your second sentence has more meat to it. The core of progressive/leftist voters would be gone if the coasts were effectively destroyed. And that would shift the balance of power most precipitously. What happens after that is pretty murky.

Anonymous Toby Temple June 17, 2013 9:08 AM  

How many have to die?

Can't remember where I read it, but some enviro/leftist/elitist suggested once, that population of about 2 million was all the world really needed, and that the rest of the people were a waste of space and recources.


Someone with the name of Jack Alpert thinks that the human population must be less than 100 million to be sustainable and everyone will live happily ever after.

Anonymous Steve June 17, 2013 9:22 AM  

"Sqw....Theodore Beale's IQ is 92. Average black person is 137."

The average black intelligence, taken from worldwide estimates, is about 80 actually. That's because Africans with no European admixture have IQ's of about 62. This would explain why they live in houses made of mud and sticks,or mud and tin (made by Europeans), depending on the local "coachah".

"Remember that dance hit from the '90s? Ooooooo-uh."

Isn't that "ageist",comrade?

Anonymous DrTorch June 17, 2013 9:40 AM  

VD, my criticism would be that you don't spend much time focusing on Christianity as a (the?) major factor in your time-to-civilization hypothesis.

"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom."

And it's pretty clear that the West's outright rejection of Christianity (and even it's historical trappings) is correlated to a rapid decline in civilization.

Anonymous E. PERLINE June 17, 2013 9:44 AM  

Just as land areas develop unevenly in production, individuals develop unenly in apprehension. Some individuals will understand why capitalism is efficient, some will believe the hype about socialism, and some will never get it at all.

Anonymous Bonds June 17, 2013 9:57 AM  

My experience is that "anti-racists" don't deny the civilizing difficulties that many cultures have. My experience is that they don't attribute those difficulties to race, but rather to how the race and culture has been treated and abused and had their civil growth retarded by "outsiders" who took advantage of them, extracted value from their home and generally disregarded their welfare and local economies until they were kicked out.

Blogger James Dixon June 17, 2013 10:07 AM  

> The notoriously civilized Scandinavians have always had difficulty with religion. The Japanese even more so.

Non-Christian does not equate to non-religious.

Anonymous Boris June 17, 2013 10:22 AM  

Raw number of deaths would be a worthless metric to test the validity of your hypothesis. (I take your hypothesis to be that there is some genetic factor that makes people of African origin less able to form "civilized" societies.)There are thousands of possible causes of an increase in death including environmental stress or even the inadequacy of a particular culture.

But the idea that genetics is guiding the outcome of societies in which people of (more recent) African descent dominate is dubious on its face. Evidence for genetic predisposition to crime is scant, and even that shows that environment plays the lead role in "activating" any inherited criminal tendencies. IQ differences are minor and, again, absolutely swamped by environmental factors such as malnutrition.

But, no, any number of deaths would not prove anything in and of itself.

Anonymous DonReynolds June 17, 2013 10:56 AM  

Boris...."But, no, any number of deaths would not prove anything in and of itself."

I agree with you Boris that dead people do not change anything, no matter how high you pile them, and they do not prove anything either. Clearly, you find environmental factors to be much more significant than genetics and that culture is by no means related to genetic makeup.

I believe we need your help to explain how a place can change so dramatically depending on what people live in that place. If the environment is largely unchanged for many years and the people living there are displaced by a new people, then it would seem that environment was not the deciding or overriding factor.

I have believed for a long while that the main difference between the Europeans and Natives in North America was not necessarily genetic but social organization. Is social organization genetic or environmental? I would say it is genetic for a very simple reason....the genetically weaker elements can survive (and even prevail over their betters) if they are better organized, and this includes a better social organization.

Anonymous Susan June 17, 2013 11:41 AM  

Reason why mass horror doesn't bother liberals at all is that it is justified by them as a kind of collateral damage necessary to keep their agenda moving.

I have actually heard libs say this on several occasions on the local news when interviewed by an intelligent reporter. They truly don't care about mass death. They welcome it. After all, a large segment of the younger libs were born into an abortion mill society that doesn't respect life and has tossed God out of our daily lives. So why are we shocked when they don't care?

Anonymous Isabel Paterson June 17, 2013 2:35 PM  

"The philanthropist, the politician, and the pimp are inevitably found in alliance because they have the same motives, they seek the same ends, to exist for, through, and by others. And the good people cannot be exonerated for supporting them. Neither can it be believed that the good people are wholly unaware of what actually happens. But when the good people do know, as they certainly do, that three million persons (at the least estimate) were starved to death in one year by the methods they approve, why do they still fraternize with the murderers and support the measures? Because they have been told that the lingering death of the three millions might ultimately benefit a greater number. The argument applies equally well to cannibalism."

http://mises.org/daily/2739

Anonymous Conservative Language Institute of America June 17, 2013 9:08 PM  

Those “studies” that leftists push forward as proof that culture and environment are more important than genetics, are all inevitably flawed; they are skewed by the progressive researcher to justify what she believed in the first place, i.e., they are all steeped (marinated? rotting?) in confirmation bias.

The fact of life is that racial identification is most often the precursor to cultural identification. We are talking about positive statistical correlations, not absolute undeviating laws; however, the predisposition to consider race before culture is a primary motivation especially for non-whites that occurs repeatedly and shows no signs of abating. As but one of myriad examples, why else would blacks unthinkingly vote in an arrogant half-black unknown Senator without once questioning his background or his political philosophies?

Traditions are cultural instantiations of reality-based statistical correlations, gleaned over generations of a particular ethnic people. And since ethnicity is in large part racial, so too are traditions at their core. The mental contortions that leftists have to go through to deny such basic reality would be laughable if they and their related policies were not so mindlessly destructive to the societies on which they have been foisted.

Anonymous Kingston June 18, 2013 5:36 AM  

@ Dr Torch: Roman and greek civilizations came into existence without christianity. If you consider Egypt, Babylon and Sumeria to have fit the definition of Civilization then that is five civilizations predating christianity. Christianity is not the factor for becoming civilized and in fact appears to not even be necessary

Anonymous DrTorch June 18, 2013 9:02 AM  

Kingston- I agree w/ you, those would be defined as civilizations. I don't know for sure what VD is speaking to, but I don't consider it any sort of compliment to aspire to those civilizations after seeing what W Civ accomplished.

Anonymous Desiderius June 19, 2013 12:01 PM  

Kingston,

Well, Christianity itself can be considered a fusion of the Hellenic and Hebraic, which between them encapsulate much of the five civilizations you mention. It can also be understood (among many other ways) as a reaction to the collapse of the Roman Republic into the (relatively more savage) Empire.

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