ALL BLOG POSTS AND COMMENTS COPYRIGHT (C) 2003-2020 VOX DAY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. REPRODUCTION WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED.

Tuesday, July 23, 2013

SFWA 3.0's target market

It's truly not fair to say that there is no market for the necro-bestial love triangles and transgendered Regency romances of color in space so beloved of the new SFWA.  The market definitely exists, as evidenced here:
it’s funny tho when ppl give u shit for not reading or wanting to get into “classic novels" like im sorry why do i wanna read about the ramblings of some crusty old white dude who doesn’t even know what  clitoris is when i can read about time traveling interracial lesbian romances in space
As to whether that is a market that merits pursuing to the exclusion of works in the mode of crusty old white dudes such as Asimov, Card, Heinlein, Herbert, Tolkien, Lewis, and Verne is a question I quite happily leave to fine SF/F publishers such as Tor Books, Night Shade Books and Golden Gryphon Press.

Labels: ,

61 Comments:

Anonymous Gx1080 July 23, 2013 4:38 PM  

Dude, it's Tumblr. Is just a deposit of amateur porn and SOCIAL JUSTICE crusaders.

Wouldn't take them seriously.

Anonymous Stilicho July 23, 2013 4:42 PM  

Squeer nation needs a genre and has found one, but feels threatened by quality SF/F so the long march will continue.

Anonymous J July 23, 2013 4:45 PM  

Heinlein definitely knew what a clitoris was.

Anonymous Obviously Not Tad Gawking July 23, 2013 4:46 PM  

Honestly is the word "clitoris" in any Vance or Heinlein novels?

she/he/it has a point

Anonymous DrTorch July 23, 2013 4:47 PM  

Isn't this why Bob Guccione bought Omni Magazine?

Anonymous Mr. Nightstick July 23, 2013 4:50 PM  

Next time just kill it with fire rather than linking it. What has been seen cannot be unseen.

Anonymous wereseal of color July 23, 2013 4:52 PM  

crusty white dude = creepy ass cracker = racist violence

the SFWA board needs to act now!!!

Anonymous Gen. Kong July 23, 2013 4:53 PM  

I think the SWFA überfuhreren need to absolutely insist that all approved SF authors write exclusively in Ebonics.

Anonymous anon123 July 23, 2013 5:00 PM  

Well, she clearly enjoys 'Game of Thrones'. She obviously has trouble stringing together a coherent thought . I doubt she can read anything more complicated than wereseal novels.

Blogger Clint July 23, 2013 5:02 PM  

DUDE... VD, when you provide a link with a picture like that, you need to give us a heads up. I think I threw up a little in my mouth when I clicked on it...

Blogger RobertT July 23, 2013 5:05 PM  

while she's an interesting chick,i doubt she reads anything other than liquor signs or top lit billboard.

Anonymous Harsh July 23, 2013 5:09 PM  

Another loudmouth land whale with her head stuck up her ginormous ass. Ho hum.

Blogger tz July 23, 2013 5:13 PM  

HT, Chateau Heartiste, The left hates free speech

But wouldn't a lesbian couple be bigamy, as there are two wives?



Anonymous Beau July 23, 2013 5:16 PM  

Remember the grand old themes of Science Fiction? In the past an author could be proud of partaking in rolling back the veil of the future. Now, who can be pleased wasting their gifts to titillate vacuous trash? What is a Nebula these days, a polished knob?

Anonymous fish July 23, 2013 5:18 PM  

it’s funny tho when ppl give u shit for not reading or wanting to get into “classic novels" like im sorry why do i wanna read about the ramblings of some crusty old white dude who doesn’t even know what clitoris is when i can read about time traveling interracial lesbian romances in space

Either someone is spoofing or the SFWA crew has collectively spun a main bearing!

Anonymous Daniel July 23, 2013 5:20 PM  

That's not crusty, that's a protective coating. Otherwise, the Geominatrix of Woofington would have mistaken those guys for her Ephedra sprinkles on her bucket of Häagen-Dazs.

Let me guess, her definition of "hard sci-fi" is one where it is really difficult for the heroine to choose between the werebadboy and the brooding wimpire.

Anonymous What Would Lodi Do? July 23, 2013 5:21 PM  

Can't be real, has to be a parody. Which one of the Ilk pulled this off???

Anonymous Daniel July 23, 2013 5:29 PM  

Can't be real, has to be a parody. Which one of the Ilk pulled this off???

I'm guessing that zen0 is up to her old tricks again...

Blogger tz July 23, 2013 5:48 PM  

The only thing which is worse as a barren wasteland is music. The closest thing which aspires to Bach, Mozart, Hayden, ... Berlioz, Ravel, or DeBussy might be some of the movie music. I can think of the sound tracks by John Williams - he doesn't write symphonies, but at least can compose.

I tend to avoid the label "classic" for anything contemporary, since a classic is that which passes the judgment of time, and we usually don't know that. Bach was obscure and obsolete, but utter genius. Greatness is for the great-grandchildren to decide by reading or ignoring.

Why do such media? Because it exercises and lifts your mind. You become better having listened to it or read it. You start to understand, and you grow. Some things aren't sweet or nice, but that especially can grow you.

You can't even do Burroughs or even Arthur Conan Doyle.

Even in their attempts, they lose. Jane Austen, Mary Shelly, Harriet Beecher Stowe all wrote, the last was probably the best apologetic against slavery in the 19th century. Sci-Fi/Fantasy could be like that. And they are still read today.

Instead the awards, the process, and the rest are dumbed down. (It would be interesting if Vox hired a stoogess and wrote some total dreck, but got it "published" and it won awards and kudos from the SFWA, but that would be a cheap shot - he should merely suggest he is doing so and have the board try to find out whom the non-existent shill on the SFWA discussion forums is or are).

Anonymous Move Zig July 23, 2013 5:51 PM  

Yeah this must be a goof or something. I mean..who would turn to science fiction for dykes in time travel when they can just go to internet porn.
But I suppose there would be spelling errors there so I'm not sure if the commenter would be able to tolerate that. Myself, I don't give a damn about grammar or spelling if the action is hot.

Anonymous DJF July 23, 2013 6:16 PM  

So once again a feminist who would accuse men of just thinking of woman as a collection of sex organs writes that she bases her reading on whether or not her sex organs are mentioned.

Anonymous Big Bill July 23, 2013 6:51 PM  

Well, I guess we know why SHE escaped her Indian/Paki cesspit to come to our country.

I don't believe they tolerate time-traveling interracial lesbians back in the motherland.

The desi boys back home give lesbians like her a face full of hydrochloric acid if they get mouthy about "Eve-teasing".

Anonymous Dr. Kenneth Noisewater July 23, 2013 6:52 PM  

I vote "can't possibly be real". It just works too well as parody.

Anonymous Jabari July 23, 2013 6:55 PM  

The only thing which is worse as a barren wasteland is music. The closest thing which aspires to Bach, Mozart, Hayden, ... Berlioz, Ravel, or DeBussy might be some of the movie music. I can think of the sound tracks by John Williams - he doesn't write symphonies, but at least can compose.

You might want to check out some video game music as well - Uematsu and Mitsuda are a good start for the Japanese stuff (Final Fantasy/Chrono Trigger/etc), and Halo/Warcraft/God of War types of soundtracks for American composers.

Went to a Video Games Live concert a couple years ago, that was awesome!

Anonymous Writers Gawking At Vox July 23, 2013 7:11 PM  

"when i can read about time traveling interracial lesbian romances in space"

I wonder where an author would send these TTIL? Forward or back? Forward to discover if their lifestyle had caught on? Back to to try to create a future devoid of prejudice against their lifestyle (this may have consequences way to dangerous...but hey, it's Sci Fi).

Personally, I'd have them go back to the 60s so the traveling lesbians could personally find out if Philip Dick knew of the Clit, and if he really cared a wit or a lick.

Anonymous Salt July 23, 2013 7:35 PM  

The Isle of Lesbos. It was traveling interracial lesbians who inhabited it after all.

Blogger tz July 23, 2013 7:35 PM  

Their tar getting might have to wait for the pitch to drop

Combining the viscous and vicious.

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn July 23, 2013 7:36 PM  

Can't be real, has to be a parody. Which one of the Ilk pulled this off???

I am not an Ilk. I am a conqueror, not a joiner.

I know you thought of me. I but wished to disabuse you of the idea that I have assimilated into your Ilkish culture.

Blogger tz July 23, 2013 7:46 PM  

Time travel? This is the "jump the shark" episode for any SciFi series.

Normally it is done badly.

It is worse if the location is earth or the time happens to be within 5 years of the date of broadcast.

It is abysmal if it happens within 50 miles of Hollywood (ST:V of course ends up where it is cheap to produce for their time travel episodes).

Time travel is the equivalent of culinary sugar, salt, and fat. It can be done, but it requires a great deal of subtlety and even greater talent to do well.

Of course time traveling lesbians who end up in the middle of the witch craze could end up well done especially in the movie version (flick, flick).

Anonymous Roundtine July 23, 2013 8:20 PM  

What's the difference between a clitoris and a golf ball?

A time traveling interracial lesbian romances in space will be filled with golf balls.

Anonymous Estelle Costanza July 23, 2013 8:20 PM  

The "clitoris"? What's that? Is it new - did they just invent it?

Anonymous buzzcut July 23, 2013 8:38 PM  

Lesbian Time Travel, Chapter One – Flight Lessons

Once upon a time there were like these 2 lesbians, and one was named, um, “Rachel” or something, and the other one was “Tabetha,” only it was pronounced “Ta-BETH-a.” So then one day Tabetha was all like, “Hey, Rachel! Check it out! I got this bitchin' time machine at a garage sale from some old white creep. So, you wanna go somewhere? I mean, some TIME?”
So then Rachel goes, “Sure.” Then they totally set the dials, or whatever, to make it go, and the machine went to the future, or the past. But it took a loooong time, because the creepy old white dude didn't like lesbians, so he like removed some wires or whatever. Then I said, or Tabetha, “So, this is taking like forever. You wanna make out?” So then Rachel goes, “Sure, but I totally don't know where the clitoris is, for you see, it is not Rachel, but it is I, the creepy old white dude who sold you the broke time machine!” Then he took off the Rachel mask he was wearing and it was totally him! And Tabetha said, “Gross. Don't touch me, you old perv.”

Blogger tz July 23, 2013 9:22 PM  

@Roundtine

I don't know the difference, both are the target of puts.

Blogger Russ July 23, 2013 9:42 PM  

I have to believe she's only parodying our expectations of her and her ilk. Like mouth grimacing, eyes clinched belief. She couldn't really be this empty-headed.

On a similar note, I recently decided to start rereading some of my favorite books from my youth to see how they hold up to middle age. I've always seen sci-fi/fantasy section of used book stores as bastions of the classics, so I rolled up to the biggest 1/2 Price Books in my city expecting to pick up some Moorcock, Heinlein, Herbert, Niven.

No. It was mostly remnants of new-ish fantasy series and detective novels featuring female vampires as the protagonist. Pitiful.

Anonymous Anonymous July 23, 2013 9:52 PM  

Vox,
You probably should have gone with:

A Throne of Boners
A Clitoris Broken
and The Wardog's Taint

Best sellers guaranteed!

Anonymous Jack Amok July 23, 2013 10:00 PM  

Used to be the intellectual crowd complained that Sci-Fi wasn't literature. Now they're complaining it isn't cliterature.

Anonymous Anonymous July 23, 2013 10:01 PM  

Cliterature! Hilarious

Anonymous Blume July 23, 2013 10:06 PM  

Used book stores generally have a few of those authors but half price books gives pennies on the dollar so they only get the really crappy books. I mean why would I sell a book I really like for ten cents? I keep the good stuff at home to read for the fifth or dixth time.

Anonymous Blume July 23, 2013 10:08 PM  

Unfortunately my opinion is that she would love heinlein, he covered all those bases.

Anonymous B Lewis July 23, 2013 11:23 PM  

"Cup of coffee, ma'am?" asked the steward, his white face pale beneath averted eyes.

Admiral Prudence Trafalgar said nothing. She simultaneously flipped her natty dreadlocks from her cocoa-colored face and snapped the spyglass to her crystal-clear blue-violet eye. The other eye, a ZamTek ZR-4290 CyberPeeper, instantly established a maser link with the distant vessel. The hailing signal it sent was answered with the correct password.

She allowed her plush lips a wicked grin. The hail-and-response system had proved its worth to the fleet since the Battle of Freidan IV, when the enlightened, freedom-loving forces of the Cosmic Union Navy of Terra had first met the brutal forces of the Reactionary Androcentric Phallotheistic Empire. How well she remembered that day, when she as a lowly lieutenant (who nevertheless had graduated at the top of her Academy class back on Msworld) had ridden into battle atop the good old starship
Alice B. Toklas.

Grimly, she also remembered the pain in her eye as the enemy's kamikaze DONG-114 fighter had torn into the
Toklas' Command Cone, killing all 67 officers senior to her in line of command and putting the destiny of the mighty space battlewagon and flagship of the fleet in the hands of a girl not yet fourteen Old Terran Solar Standard Years old...

She had acquitted herself well in that battle, winning not only the adoration of her crew — many of whom were grizzled veterans of space some thirty years her senior — but instant confirmation in rank and grade by the Cosmo Navy.

“Computer, prepare to dock with the —“ Instincts honed by 48 months in deep space kicked in like lightning. “Hold!” she cried in her throaty soprano voice. “Helm, hard a-lee! That's not one of ours! All hands, battle stations!”

Before the first tones of the alarm had traveled the length of the ship, Prudence had stripped away her semi-transparent dress uniform and donned her opaque, but no less-skin-tight Confrontation Suit and helmet.

Up came the spyglass again. The inbound vessel was casting off blocks of camouflage to reveal its long, peach-colored, blue-traced hull, its knob-like bow pink with heat and pierced by the vertical slit that was its Cosmo Ultra Missile port.

Prudence snapped the glass shut again. “Helm, full ahead!” she ejaculated. “That's no innocent cargo ship! That's the RAPE Fleet flagship, the ISS
Male Gaze!

All around her, combat displays sprang into life. "All weapons locked on the enemy ship, Miz," said a rating from the weapons station below. Only then, as her ship hurtled towards its foe, did she remember the mess steward. She looked down at him, his thin, white form absurdly weak and pale beside her full two point five meters of statuesque carven ebony. “Oh, yes, boy,” she said distractedly. “I'll have the usual. Black. No sugar.”


-- from PRUDENCE TRAFALGAR: SHE-CONQUEROR OF THE SPACEWAYS by Bruce Lewis

Blogger Unknown July 23, 2013 11:37 PM  

"Vance"

The deodand who wrote that ungrammatical comment should be subaquated.

Anonymous The other skeptic July 23, 2013 11:47 PM  

I don't know whether she reads cliterature, but she sure made a bunch of bad decisions

Anonymous meg00k July 24, 2013 12:26 AM  

@ Gen Kong
SF should require writers to use ebonics

But then we'd all be like Joel Chandler Harris, who they hate. Irony knows no bounds.

Blogger IM2L844 July 24, 2013 12:51 AM  

I don't know whether she reads cliterature

Well, I'm pretty sure she's not a fan of John Knox.

Anonymous rho July 24, 2013 2:00 AM  

I read a great book about cod fishing. Titled Cod, oddly enough.

By any measure is was better than a library filled with the collected works on the mating habits of zombie lesbians in zero G.

Anonymous Nathan July 24, 2013 2:47 AM  

I wonder how Tor is going to reconcile the hard science for their Quantum Physics short story contest with Scientific American with the wereseal crowd.

Actually, if anyone can figure that out, let me know. I could use the prize money.

Anonymous Anonymous July 24, 2013 3:10 AM  

The time travelling lesbian thing strikes me as pretty much an example of why I do not like certain books and comics. Specifically - they use an excess of sex and or violence as a replacement for any sort of plot. Mind you, I don't necessarily mind a lot of sex or violence in the book, but it should be part of the plot, not a replacement for it. If the original complainer is reading a sci-fi book only because it features time travelling lesbians, she is not a sci-fi fan, she is a porn fan.

Anonymous Roundtine July 24, 2013 4:54 AM  

What happens when they travel to a time before Doritos?

Anonymous VryeDenker July 24, 2013 5:14 AM  

To be fair, you need to actually possess a vocabulary to read any of the classics. Somnambulism? Ain't nobody gonna stay awake fo' that!

Anonymous Myrddin July 24, 2013 9:10 AM  

Honestly is the word "clitoris" in any Vance or Heinlein novels?

Heinlein, probably. Can't speak for Vance. Definitely in Niven, though, and Herbert.


Dude, it's Tumblr. Is just a deposit of amateur porn and SOCIAL JUSTICE crusaders.

Wouldn't take them seriously.


My guess is he's not so much taking them seriously as mocking those who do.

Anonymous The other skeptic July 24, 2013 10:29 AM  

Well, I'm pretty sure she's not a fan of John Knox.

Seems like that is worth a read.

I read somewhere that Temujin's successor had to undo the mess that Temujin's wife or mother made of the empire ... I might have the details wrong, but that is the context in which I think it is worth reading.

Anonymous Watching the Trainwreck, Eating Popcorn: Czar of the Multiverse July 24, 2013 11:34 AM  

"Heinlein, probably."

"Thou shalt not make any graven image of a sort that could annoy the powers that be, especially Mrs. Grundy — and, exempli gratia, this is why your anatomy book doesn't show the clitoris. Mrs. Grundy wouldn't like it because she doesn't have one."

-To Sail Beyond the Sunset, page 25 in the MMPB.

Blogger Dystopic July 24, 2013 12:21 PM  

Vox is correct in that there is a market for transsexual space lesbian romances. But then there is also a market for Jersey Shore and the Kardashians, so there's no accounting for taste, obviously. In another few decades, everything will just be thinly disguised pornography. That's all the better for the Deltas and Gammas of the world, they'll need something to pass all that time in which they are not getting laid.

The next generation of Alphas, on the other hand, probably won't even bother with learning to read. And the death of literature marches on.

Blogger Revelation Means Hope July 24, 2013 1:22 PM  

Bruce,
too much Honor Harrington, not enough vacillating heroine who can't decide between a career in the Navy or a career in politics.

Anonymous VD July 24, 2013 2:57 PM  

In another few decades, everything will just be thinly disguised pornography.

I'm going to start filming myself being struck in the testicles and make a fortune!

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn July 24, 2013 4:00 PM  

I'm going to start filming myself being struck in the testicles and make a fortune!

Based on your demonstrated popularity among writers, you should have quite a few inquiries about co-authoring.

Anonymous JoeyWheels July 24, 2013 5:01 PM  

...and "Idiocracy" is STILL regarded by some as mere bad fiction and not prophesy.....

Blogger Pulp Herb July 26, 2013 5:03 PM  

On a similar note, I recently decided to start rereading some of my favorite books from my youth to see how they hold up to middle age. I've always seen sci-fi/fantasy section of used book stores as bastions of the classics, so I rolled up to the biggest 1/2 Price Books in my city expecting to pick up some Moorcock, Heinlein, Herbert, Niven.

No. It was mostly remnants of new-ish fantasy series and detective novels featuring female vampires as the protagonist. Pitiful.


Why are you surprised?

I fight to keep my copies of the Masters as they get harder and harder to find. Heinlein is the one I'm most generous about lending but the Brackett doesn't leave the house.

Although I'm sure I'll get pilloried for it I admit to reading some of the bubblegum "urban fantasy" (how I hate that name, which to me evokes Emma Bull's War for the Oaks, Shetterly's Borderlands anthologies, and similar books, not horror romance) and I'm much more likely to part with the latest Hallows book or Kitty novel than my SciFi book club copy of the original Foundation novels, my Amber omnibus, my copy of Lord of Light, or even my omnibuses of the original Pern books.

If I find the masters at HPB they come home, never to leave again.

Blogger Pulp Herb July 26, 2013 5:13 PM  

@JCClimber:
Bruce,
too much Honor Harrington, not enough vacillating heroine who can't decide between a career in the Navy or a career in politics.


I knew there was a reason I finished that thinking, "not too bad...it could be a fun romp to read on the train." I guess it does take a specific kind of "talent" to write TTILR because when Bruce tried he got a black Amazon at Trafalgar.

Anonymous Renee August 25, 2013 6:30 PM  

Renee reporting in, can confirm there is a market for that.

(How funny it is that I find myself back here after so much time due to being a fan of N.K. on GoodReads?)

Blogger Unknown October 19, 2013 1:59 AM  

Astounding! I am definitely bookmarking this to come back and read later
Astounding blog.
Comfortably, the post is certainly the freshest on that laudable topic.
Excellent post! You covered the topic well.
Extraordinary work
Certainly wonderful! I will definitely
share it with others. You ought to
have appreciations for giving out.

free articles submission


Post a Comment

Rules of the blog

<< Home

Newer Posts Older Posts