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Sunday, October 27, 2013

Homeschool Nazis

Matt Walsh points out the historical reality to anti-homeschoolers:
I’d like to treat you to a look at a few snippets of some emails I received yesterday, after a certain “controversial” segment on my show:

“I never realized you were so anti-education…”

“It figures that a teabagger would hate education so much…”

“….so it seems you would rather have a nation full of illiterates…”

“….I get tired of your anarchist propaganda…”

“I’m sure Hitler would be very proud of you…”

That last one — the obligatory “you’re as bad as Hitler!” charge — is especially ironic, considering the subject that prompted these responses: public education. Specifically, my belief that government education is an unmitigated disaster, and can only be remedied by more and more families deciding to remove government from the equation and educate their children themselves. That last emailer is, predictably, a proud product of public school. But you already knew that, in light of his hilarious historical ignorance.

Contrary to his claims, Hitler would not have been very “proud” of my pro-home school rhetoric. In fact, he would have been quite displeased. In fact, he probably would have expressed that displeasure in a manner which would have left no room for interpretation. That’s because Hitler actually outlawed home schooling (a law that’s still enforced in Germany today, and passionately endorsed by our own Justice Department). The Fuehrer was a huge proponent of public schooling — and that’s not an attempt to compare modern public school proponents to Nazis.

But, you know, if anyone comes close to mirroring the National Socialist Party on this particular subject, it obviously isn’t the home schooling folks…
The whole article is pretty good, as Matt goes on to explain how the public school system is working precisely as designed. The fact is that if you believe in public education, you are every bit as much a Nazi as someone who believes Jews should be oven-baked and every bit as much a Communist as someone who believes in the abolition of private property. Adolf Hitler and Karl Marx were both absolutely avid advocates of public education, in fact, "Free education for all children in government schools" is the tenth plank of the Communist Manifesto.

Public school is systematic child abuse. It is that simple. Don't ever be defensive about home schooling. When someone asks you why you homeschool, just tell them "public school is child abuse" and give them the opportunity to explain how and why that statement is incorrect. They will not be able to do so.

Labels:

197 Comments:

Anonymous Josh October 27, 2013 9:07 AM  

OT: here's a good review of The Irration Atheist"

Blogger Kate Paulk October 27, 2013 9:40 AM  

Public schooling began as a way to ensure a sufficient supply of workers with enough literacy to minimize the need to train them. Obedience to authority and compliance with the norms of the day were the other goals - a worker who thinks for himself is a threat to the system, and the system even then was becoming the unholy alliance between a small number of very large corporations (the ones that prefer to buy their laws and have the cash flow to do so) and the elites of both major political parties.

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother October 27, 2013 9:46 AM  

Pretty typical comments over there. They get boring to read after a while.

Anonymous TJIC October 27, 2013 10:06 AM  

My fiance are both studying a bit of Latin.

As a joke, last night I labelled the tupperware of leftovers in the fridge with Latin words.

...which led us to say this morning "Hey, when we're home schooling in a few years, we should make it standard practice to label all leftovers that way."

Government run schools would (a) never think of such a thing, (b) never do such a thing. It's elitist. It's dust and old. It glorifies dead white males (well, really, dead olive-skinned male, but still). Worst of all, it might lead kids to read original sources instead of John Dewey approved summaries.

Blogger  Trust Ted get misled. Gamma secret kings reddit October 27, 2013 10:14 AM  

False flags or real shootings and (knifing?) linked to the SSRI drugs, broken families, growing unemployment and incarceration prove the edu system as dangerous.

Fear of a blank planet's video by porcupine tree considered with the mind control sorcerers describe a failed, drugged edu system.

All those who make it to the 12th grade have little hope, their hope is the deception that edu-debt is freedom.

Blogger Old Rebel October 27, 2013 10:30 AM  

Which is why I refer to the part of the DC Gulag dedicated to younger subjects as "government schools," rather than "public schools." The public has about as much influence over this machine of forced conformity as "the proletariat" did over the Politburo--the elite ALWAYS claims it's acting on behalf of others.

Anonymous Anonymous October 27, 2013 10:30 AM  

Adolf Hitler and Karl Marx were both absolutely avid advocates of public education,

and so where John Adams and Thomas Jefferson...

Blogger agraves October 27, 2013 10:31 AM  

Public education in 1930s' Germany was not like the shit taught today. The Germans were probably the most advanced society in terms of sciences, literature, etc. The daily references to Nazis is a neo-con ploy, which gets extended to Iran, so we can comfortably conflate the two and bomb Iran to hell, as planned for Syria but interrupted by Putin.

Anonymous Anonymous October 27, 2013 10:36 AM  

I’m curious if Vox would consider raising children in an urban environment child abuse.

Anonymous Outlaw X October 27, 2013 10:45 AM  

I remember, Vox in public School every year we would have a big celebration for Halloween. Haunted houses and games with candy. Now that was grade school back in the sixty's. They made it fun but as I got out of school and looked backed I remember there was no school sponsored holidays but Halloween and for some reason Valentines day. There never was a Christmas, Thanksgiving or other school sponsored days. I recently learned what Halloween represented, never figured the Valentines day out though.

In the last 4 years we don't let kids "trick or treat here". Porch light out and no takers. I can't believe it took me that long and when I explained it to my mother she was shocked.

If you got time what is your opinion on Halloween?

Anonymous Outlaw X October 27, 2013 10:53 AM  

Oh and go Cowboys! And I hope the Vikes beat GB after what you wrote.

Anonymous LL October 27, 2013 10:55 AM  

Outlaw X, my first thought to your last question was, "Oh man, Bane would be losing his shit on that right now." haha

Anonymous bw October 27, 2013 10:55 AM  

The Fuehrer was a huge proponent of public schooling — and that’s not an attempt to compare modern public school proponents to Nazis.

Why not? It follows - logically, reasonably, and historically. That is where the evidence leads. Speak the truth and connect the dots. It will offend. A stark contrast must be shown. No need for rhetorical retreat or soft peddling. People's entire frame has been subsumed (Harris) to a false, lying, thieving, murderous authority whose only wish is to use and abuse - the exact opposite of a proper and natural parent-child relationship.
These Nazis are lazy, irresponsible, uneducated and selfish-religious-nut-job-zealots: the State is their salvation (baby sitter) from having to raise or bother with their children. The extent of their love and protection is subsumation of their offspring/seed/image by the State.
TrueBelievers, all.

Blogger Matamoros October 27, 2013 11:04 AM  

Read John Taylor Gatto in this regard.

Blogger Robert What? October 27, 2013 11:08 AM  

One of my major regrets was not homeschooling my son. But then, both parents must be on board for that. My advice to any young man looking to marry - make sure you are both on the same page regarding H.S. If not, run don't walk to the nearest exit.

Anonymous Anonymous October 27, 2013 11:25 AM  

"and so where John Adams and Thomas Jefferson..."

And your point is...?

Anonymous Anonymous October 27, 2013 11:29 AM  

and so where John Adams and Thomas Jefferson...

(my emphasis) Please continue to defend government schools.

I don't know what Adams and Jefferson supported, but it wasn't the modern system of compulsory schooling with age-segregation, students lined up in militaristic rows, and top-down government control, since that was first imported from Prussia by Horace Mann in the 1840s.

Not that you could have learned that in an American school, of course. The assumption there seems to be that the way it's done now is the way it was always done. Surely Roman children sat quietly at rows of desks, writing their lessons on wax tablets. How else could it possibly be done?

Anonymous Will Best October 27, 2013 11:31 AM  

We send our kids to one of those quasi-private schools where the house and property taxes are unaffordable by the bottom 90%. I don't have any complaints about it and I monitor what they do fairly closely. Though the state requires a roll out of common core by the start of the 2015 school year so that is of serious concern.

Anonymous E. PERLINE October 27, 2013 11:35 AM  

I went to public schools, and while I never felt revelation, I did learn the three Rs. Anyone can build on that, even if he doesn't go to college.

Colleges have a pact with the government to prepare students for state and federal licensing. Their students aren't too comfortable either.

I think the problem is that children never learn the right psychology in public school, college, or life. They are never taught to roll with the punches because adults don't know it either.

Anonymous Rex Little October 27, 2013 11:38 AM  

What's your opinion on private schools, including parochial and others that are church-run? If the answer is that they vary widely, any tips for parents wanting to evaluate the ones available to them?

Anonymous MrGreenMan October 27, 2013 11:44 AM  

How quickly does it get to the usual comments on one of those articles? Faster than the licks to the center of a Tootsie Pop:

"I like the idea, but only for the smart people, and only those the government approves, because, although some of those public schools are bad, mine is just great, and I had a fine enough experience, and it really lets us focus on serving Mammon instead of raising our kids, and could you please just shut up, m'kay, and play those drums louder because I thought for a second I heard some screams coming from the brazier over the fire!"

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother October 27, 2013 11:45 AM  

Our oldest son seems more suited for a classroom as far as we can tell. I am researching private schools in Austin that offer Latin and Greek instruction. I consider instruction in the classical languages indispensable.

Anonymous Anonymous October 27, 2013 11:57 AM  

(my emphasis) Please continue to defend government schools.

LOL, you got me, damn public edumacation of mine.

\Not defending current public education, just pointing out that I am dubious about the “it was designed this way” theory. I doubt that what we currently have is what Adams and Jefferson had in mind.

Just because man keeps screwing something up doesn’t mean the idea doesn’t have merit.

Anonymous beatle55 October 27, 2013 11:59 AM  

www.invisiblesurfscollar.com blogger has a new book out, available at Amazon-"Credentialed To Destroy. How and why education became a weapon. Check out both the book and the blog. If any Texans want to take a gander at what is in store for Texas public schools-www.transformtexas.org.

Blogger kurt9 October 27, 2013 12:00 PM  

The Fuhrer was indeed a proponent of public schooling. He talks quite a lot about it in Mein Kampf. It is also true that the law banning home schooling is the ONLY law that the Nazis made that was still carried onto the books in post war Germany.

Anonymous bw October 27, 2013 12:05 PM  

"A government system of education in Prussia is not inconsistent with the theory of Prussian society, for there all wisdom is supposed to be lodged in the government. But the thing is wholly inadmissible here . . . because, according to our theory, the people are supposed to be wiser than the government. Here, the people do not look to the government for light, for instruction, but the government looks to the people. The people give the law to the government. To entrust, then, the government with the power of determining the education which our children shall receive is entrusting our servant with the power to be our master. This fundamental difference between the two countries [United States and Prussia], we apprehend, has been overlooked by the board of education and its supporters."

- Orestes Brownson, In Opposition to Centralization, 1839

Anonymous bw October 27, 2013 12:24 PM  

\Not defending current public education, just pointing out that I am dubious about the “it was designed this way” theory.

Then you are uneducated on the matter. Educate yourself before continuing to throw irrelevant and misleading comments into the discussion. Your doubt and unbelief are misplaced and directed in exactly the wrong direction.
In my quote above is the very heart of the "begging of the question" - it's nothing new:
has been overlooked by the board of education and its supporters

Much evidence puts the lie to this naive - and actually egotistical and comfortable - assumption...especially in historical hindsight, and even in their own f*cking words.
They have created the very system they said they were going to. The only questions are: what are the results of the system? and cui bono? (hint: that isn't asking "who has a boner")
The system is what it does.
Come on over to the psycho-spiritual and intellectual fight. We need you. The myth that education is difficult and unnatural is part of the big lie.

Anonymous Anonymous October 27, 2013 12:29 PM  

Not defending current public education, just pointing out that I am dubious about the “it was designed this way” theory.

Do some research; you might be surprised. Read what Mann and other founders of the common schools in the mid-1800s said -- at a time when literacy in his state was already near 100%, so presumably people were already getting educated just fine somehow. See also Dewey, who developed them further in the next century. They were quite open about what their real goals were, and they were much more about building obedient and patriotic citizens and passing on government-approved morality and ideology than they were about teaching subjects like reading and math.

That's why people who came up through the public schools in 1950s and early 1960s saw them as so trustworthy: the government-approved beliefs of the day were patriotic, fairly Christian, pro-family, and respectful of traditional authority, and the schools reflected that. But that was an accident of circumstance. When the beliefs of the elites running things changed to be anti-tradition, anti-family, and anti-Christian, the schools switched to reflecting those beliefs, but most parents had no idea they had changed. Many still don't; they assume the schools are basically how they remember them as kids, maybe with the addition of sex ed and more PC stuff, but not drastically different. They're wrong, but the real problems go beyond the foibles of today's schools to the basic intent and structure of them.

Private schools mostly suck too because they're hiring people and buying most of their textbooks and equipment from the same pool as the public schools, and bound by numerous state regulations, so they can't be that much different. Most people just don't know there's any other way to teach kids but to herd them into a big building with hundreds of other kids, divide them up by age, and teach them discrete subjects 45-55 minutes at a time. When that's the system everyone is using, there's only so much icing you can put on it to make yours go down better than the others.

Blogger Jared Livesey October 27, 2013 12:38 PM  

"The system is what it does."

Because, forsooth, unintended consequences never happen.

Anonymous bw October 27, 2013 12:46 PM  

Because, forsooth, unintended consequences never happen.

Yours is an exclusionary jest, surely.

Because, forsooth, intended consequences never happen.

Blogger LibertyPortraits October 27, 2013 12:46 PM  

Yeah, but Vox, wasn't Hitler merely trying to prevent the Jews from conducting future holocausts against Persians? I mean, maybe a few million oven-baked Jews is preferable to tens of millions of nuclear-burnt Persians, because utilitarianism.

Anonymous DonReynolds October 27, 2013 12:57 PM  

The churches, especially the Roman Catholic, were very disappointed when Hitler closed or took over the running of their schools. He saw it vital to the national interest (Nazi) that the young people be properly instructed in the Core Curriculum, that included revised German History, Racial Hygiene, Civil Order, and how to OBEY. What could be more important for an Empire?

Blogger rcocean October 27, 2013 1:01 PM  

"That's why people who came up through the public schools in 1950s and early 1960s saw them as so trustworthy: the government-approved beliefs of the day were patriotic, fairly Christian, pro-family, and respectful of traditional authority, and the schools reflected that."

And the colleges are completely worthless except for learning some technical or science subject. The Liberal arts are a joke.

Blogger rcocean October 27, 2013 1:02 PM  

Funny how no one mentions Catholic Schools. How are they doing ?

Anonymous Jake October 27, 2013 1:05 PM  

I keep a few quotes about the purpose of public schooling handy for these discussions:

"Ninety-nine [students] out of a hundred are automata, careful to walk in prescribed paths, careful to follow the prescribed custom. This is not an accident but the result of substantial education, which, scientifically defined, is the subsumption of the individual."

–William Torrey Harris, The Philosphy of Education (1906)

"Every child in America entering school at the age of five is mentally ill because he comes to school with certain allegiances to our founding fathers, toward our elected officials, toward his parents, toward a belief in a supernatural being, and toward the sovereignty of this nation as a separate entity. It’s up to you as teachers to make all these sick children well—by creating the international child of the future."

Chester M. Pierce in 1973 address to the Childhood Interantional Education Seminar

"How can a nation endure that deliberately seeks to rouse ambitions and aspirations in the oncoming generations which...cannot possibly be fulfilled?....How can we justify our practice in schooling the masses in precisely the same manner as we do those who are to be leaders? Is human nature so constituted that those who fail will readily acquiesce in the success of their rivals?"

James Russell, dean of Columbia Teachers College, in 1908 address to NEA

“Plans are underway to replace community, family, and church with propaganda, education, and mass media....the State shakes loose from Church, reaches out to School.... People are only little plastic lumps of human dough."

Ed Ross, Social Control, 1901

“In our dreams...people yield themselves with perfect docility to our molding hands. The present educational conventions [intellectual and character education] fade from our minds, and unhampered by tradition we work our own good will upon a grateful and responsive folk. We shall not try to make these people or any of their children into philosophers or men of learning or men of science. We have not to raise up from among them authors, educators, poets or men of letters. We shall not search for embryo great artists, painters, musicians, nor lawyers, doctors, preachers, politicians, statesmen, of whom we have ample supply. The task we set before ourselves is very simple...we will organize children...and teach them to do in a perfect way the things their fathers and mothers are doing in an imperfect way. “

Rockefeller’s General Education Board, Occasional Letter Number One (1906):

"We want one class to have a liberal education. We want another class, a very much larger class of necessity, to forgo the privilege of a liberal education and fit themselves to perform specific difficult manual tasks."

Woodrow Wilson

In short: Public schooling exists to stunt the development of your children, to ensure that they grow up to be docile, obedient servants of the elite rather than free-thinking, pro-active individuals of the type that once dominated this nation. There came a time when a small group of elites decided it was time to put a stop to the all the "chaotic" social mobility with people going from nothing to great wealth, even greater than their own, in less than a life-time. They wanted to freeze the social order as it was (with them on top) and so we had the progressive movement. Public education is probably the most critical device employed in this undertaking.

The government sends children to public schools for the same reason that the rancher castrates his male calves.

Anonymous Susan October 27, 2013 1:24 PM  

Noticed earlier this week that while the feds are cracking down on practicing Christians in the military, Home Schooling amongst the military families seems to be on the rise. Interesting contrast.

Blogger Bio Cultural Beam Delta October 27, 2013 1:29 PM  

Amazingly Thom Hartmann agrees that public school is systematized child abuse. And then he turns around and accuses ritalin of turning children into right wingers

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother October 27, 2013 1:40 PM  

Just finished Mohammed & Charlemagne Revisited. Amazing book. It helped fill in some of my historical gaps. Also infuriating. We could have been out of the solar system by now if our scientific progress had not been retarded by five hundred years.

Now I hate muslims even more than I did.

Anonymous Jill October 27, 2013 1:50 PM  

Due to the child abuse that will inevitably occur from living in this world, I would recommend preventative therapy for children who are still in utero. It will go a long way to mitigate future psychotic breaks. However, the best way to implement a widespread therapeutic regimen would be through the public schools and programs funded by the ACA. So I'm afraid when I look at the pros and cons, I would choose the "abuse" of public schools if my children would have access to therapy and necessary drugs in a stable environment where they are actually learning something. I've met school teachers; I count many as friends. They want to save the children as much as you do. Therefore, I fail to understand your reasoning.

Anonymous Gen. Kong October 27, 2013 1:53 PM  

Uncle Yusif summed up the purpose of publick edumacation long ago:

Education is a weapon whose effects depend on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed.

It should be at least somewhat obvious at this late stage who is presently holding this weapon and at whom they have it aimed.

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother October 27, 2013 1:56 PM  

"Where they are actually learning something"

Jill, are you making the case that no one outside of public schools is actually learning anything? Did public schools always exist? How did learning occur before their invention?

Blogger Jared Livesey October 27, 2013 2:46 PM  

We could have been out of the solar system by now if our scientific progress had not been retarded by five hundred years.

Or, perhaps, if it had not been retarded by thousands of years?

1 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.

2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.

3 And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them throughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for mortar.

4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.

5 And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.

6 And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.


8 So the Lord scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.

9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the Lord did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the Lord scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

Anonymous Thomas Malthus October 27, 2013 2:50 PM  

YES! Tens of millions of parents from around the world ought to sent to the gas chamber for willingly indoctrinating their children, compliments of that wretched institution known as the public school. Personal choices be damned, mothers and fathers are hereby decreed to dedicate their life to radically altering their chosen lifestyle to remain at home with their children, teaching them the tenets of the Bible and classical education in the Judeo-Christian tradition. The consequence for their refusal to comply? Herded into railroad cars and doused with Zyklon B. Any vestiges of leftism will be eradicated by the partnership of employees and companies who agree to work fewer hours and produce fewer products, the fruits of their labor ultimately leading to a return to that idyllic, tranquil, simple society of yesteryear. The vibrants and the poor, well, they can fend for themselves educationally. The street is their classroom!

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother October 27, 2013 3:06 PM  

I can't wait for Alpha Mike to show up and bless us with her wisdom.

Anonymous Anonymous October 27, 2013 3:12 PM  

Stg58/Animal Mother:

"I can't wait for Alpha Mike to show up and bless us with her wisdom."

don't forget kilo papa, her white knight.....

Anonymous kh123 October 27, 2013 3:31 PM  

"Because, forsooth, unintended consequences never happen."

You realize they serve Coca Cola most public school cafeterias, right. Or has a latter day revelation revoked that verboten.

Anonymous righteous gobbler October 27, 2013 3:34 PM  

"Personal choices be damned, mothers and fathers are hereby decreed to dedicate their life to radically altering their chosen lifestyle to remain home with their children..."

Their was a time that it was accepted that having children entailed sacrifice and a certain amount of "altering their chosen (self indulgent) lifestyle" for the love and responsibility of the kids. Evidently that's not Baby Boomer stylish. Contemporary parents like to think that they can "have it all"; including children, a demanding career, a two parent income, and a busy social life.

Based on my own personal experience in the government school system, I wouldn't even send a disobedient dog to one of those spirit killing, thought reconstruction assembly lines.

Anonymous ThirdMonkey October 27, 2013 3:42 PM  

When we started homeschooling, we lost a few of our friends who participated in the government school gulag as either guards...er...I mean teachers or as parents. As the years have progressed we have noticed how stupid and immoral they and their children have become. Oh, but they're good church-going people. My oldest is only eight, and already knows to stay away from their daughters.

Thomas Malthus, your posts are so blazingly stupid that they warrant, at most, a fart in your general direction. Meh...

Anonymous Stickwick October 27, 2013 3:43 PM  

I can't wait for Alpha Mike to show up and bless us with her wisdom.

Careful. She may be like those mythical characters who show up if you say their names too many times.

Blogger kilo papa October 27, 2013 3:44 PM  

Ahh, yes, let's let's replace educated, trained professionals with untrained religious retards who think the Earth is 6000 years old, Noah had dinosaurs on his ark, a man lived in a fish, and global warming is make believe.

Truly, I say unto you, religion is the position you take when stroke, injury, or stupidity have invaded your brain.

Anonymous Jill October 27, 2013 3:50 PM  

Stg58/Animal Mother said, "How did learning occur before their invention?"

Children have learned in various ways throughout history: at home, in religious schools, through apprenticeships, etc. Public education simply streamlines all the options for efficiency's sake. It's one of the best working principles brought to us by 20 C manufacturing. The next best move would be to send our children overseas to lower the high costs of education. Lower costs+cross cultural exposure+immersion in a foreign language environment=best case scenario.


;)

Anonymous scoobius dubious October 27, 2013 3:57 PM  

"The next best move would be to send our children overseas to lower the high costs of education."

I can top that -- it would be cheaper and more efficient for us to not have any children at all! We can just import the pre-educated children of hostile nepotistic plundering rape-minded foreigners. Saves costs all around and... wait, we're already doing that, aren't we.

America. It's just cheaper to do the whole country in India.

Anonymous Anonagain October 27, 2013 4:04 PM  

The government, culture, and every institution in our country have become so corrupt, immoral and openly anti-Christian that the differences between Christian morality and this society are irreconcilable.

Any Christian family sending their children into the belly of that godless beast of public education is simply offering up their children as a sacrifice to Baal. It's come to the point that if you're not going to homeschool, it would be better not to have any children at all, or you will see your little ones turned into PC zombies who hate everything you value, and value everything you hate.

Blogger Jared Livesey October 27, 2013 4:06 PM  

Ahh, yes, let's let's replace educated, trained professionals with untrained religious retards who think the Earth is 6000 years old, Noah had dinosaurs on his ark, a man lived in a fish, and global warming is make believe.

The fun bit is, one can believe those things and be an educated, trained professional, with a higher-than-midwit IQ. You never do know who or what you're talking to.

Anonymous Sheila October 27, 2013 4:11 PM  

"Private schools mostly suck too because they're hiring people and buying most of their textbooks and equipment from the same pool as the public schools, and bound by numerous state regulations, so they can't be that much different. Most people just don't know there's any other way to teach kids but to herd them into a big building with hundreds of other kids, divide them up by age, and teach them discrete subjects 45-55 minutes at a time."

THIS. There are some gems among private schools and private school teachers, but overall today's private schools (most definitely including "Christian" schools) seek to recreate the public schools of the 50s. We're still talking rigid age segregation, specific amounts of information to be learned in a specific amount of time, just a bit more discipline and a Bible class added on.

IF you choose to go this route, just check out what proportion of their textbooks are specifically from Christian publishers. Even then, READ the textbooks first. I had complained to my sons' Christian schools for number of years about historical inaccuracies and political revisionism in the Christian history texts (full page of Benjamin Banneker and almost no mention at all of Pierre L'Enfant). Then last year, they had newly-minted state-U grads teaching middle school, all excited about being "friends" and "partners" with the students. They chose a reading book (note, not actual books, but a "reading textbook") which was putatively Christian. Every story had the girl being the hero, the White boy being the evil racist, and so forth. The new public school math text chosen by a committee of teachers and parents was appallingly organized and written (but oh, so colorful!). We finally pulled our younger son out (and still fulfilled our contractual obligation and paid the thousands we had agreed for tuition) and home schooled. We're still doing so.

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother October 27, 2013 4:12 PM  

It is truly amazing what a superior educational product these "professionals" turn out into the world every year.

Anonymous Anonymous October 27, 2013 4:24 PM  

Funny how no one mentions Catholic Schools. How are they doing?

"I tell my relatives and best friends, ‘If you want your children to fight for their faith, send them to public school. If you want them to lose their faith, send them to Catholic school.'" -- Archbishop Fulton Sheen

After Vatican II, the Catholic schools embraced ecumenism, socialism, and pretty much every flavor of modernism. All that was left was a dedication to academics, which they did maintain to some extent. But if you're hoping to find a more moral and traditional environment, don't count on parochial school to provide it. Some might, but you'll have to check yours personally. There are no nuns in habits with rulers anymore; no Latin and Greek and rhetoric classes. Most of them are better than public schools for the same reason that other private schools are mildly better: they don't have to accept the worst kids.

Anonymous VD October 27, 2013 4:35 PM  

Ahh, yes, let's let's replace educated, trained professionals with untrained religious retards who think the Earth is 6000 years old, Noah had dinosaurs on his ark, a man lived in a fish, and global warming is make believe.

Ah, Kilo Papa, those "educated, trained professionals" have the lowest IQs of any college graduates. They're literally subnormal. At least those who believe that the dinosaurs went on the ark in twos can count.

Blogger kilo papa October 27, 2013 4:35 PM  

@Log,

Kirk Cameron just called. He'd like his brain back due to the fact that he needs to order Mexican for dinner.

Billy Baldwins brain is available, however, so you may continue with your plan to look like a deluded retard without actually having to exert yourself. (Except for masturbating)

Anonymous GG October 27, 2013 4:36 PM  

"Public school is systematic child abuse. It is that simple. Don't ever be defensive about home schooling. When someone asks you why you homeschool, just tell them "public school is child abuse" and give them the opportunity to explain how and why that statement is incorrect. They will not be able to do so."

You're so awesome, VD. Thanks for saying it like it is.

Anonymous Anonymous October 27, 2013 4:38 PM  

Jill, I have family and friends who have been public school teachers, and every one is a good, sacrificing person. Teachers are not the schools. Good teachers are victims of the schools almost as much as the kids are.

Sheila, you're right about the curricula. Even overtly Christian homeschooling books can be surprisingly PC. There's a vocabulary series that many Christian homeschoolers use, and you'd think words are words, right, so how much PC can be in a vocabulary book? Well, you teach words by using them in sentences and paragraphs, and it's surprising how often those can just happen to mention things like the importance of the civil rights struggle or how everyone should vote.

Blogger Rhology October 27, 2013 4:40 PM  

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Blogger kilo papa October 27, 2013 4:49 PM  

@VD

At least they have college degrees.

And "two" is most likely the limit for the average Christian retard.

Except when it comes to their Sarah Palin autographs. Then they extend to three.

Anonymous GG October 27, 2013 4:50 PM  

"Saying stuff like that got my friends kicked out of my old church. So I left with them."

Good for you.

Kind of ironic, the defenders of public education who show up here always seem to use the most obscene and vulgar language, like above. Wait, don't tell me, kilo learned his awesome debate skills and impressive moral views in public school?

Blogger shamus October 27, 2013 4:54 PM  

Reasonable assumption KP has no children (born or in the house). I am a Jesus-freak, fundamentalist, Bible-thumping father. You have rhetoric, I have seven children, all harder than you.
So you keep on babbling (let him that is evil be evil still) and we'll keep on filling their heads with Scripture, math, logic, and ancient & modern foreign languages (let him who is holy be holy still).

Yes: public education is child abuse. It varies with relative harm. The best outcome is that of controlled damage.
The worst homeschool outcome? An above average public school matriculant.

KP, do you also object to secular humanist homeschooling?

Anonymous Thomas Malthus October 27, 2013 4:56 PM  

"Any Christian family sending their children into the belly of that godless beast of public education is simply offering up their children as a sacrifice to Baal."

EXACTLY. That is why my modest proposal will save the world from the machinations of those mindless zombies known as public school teachers. When parents are properly shamed, they will take stock on their poor choices. As a result, mothers and fathers will make the appropriate changes in their elitist lifestyles by being reintroduced to the agenda of the Christian libertarian. They are looking out for all of us :)


"As the years have progressed we have noticed how stupid and immoral they and their children have become."

INDEED! That is why my modest proposal will guarantee that children will reap the benefits of their parents firm, guiding hand who had denounced their past choices as immoral. By internalizing the word of the Lord--parents, of course, having had created the proper curriculum--boys and girls will be obedient servants.

In a few generations, the trifecta of death--modernism, liberalism, cultural Marxism--will be nothing but a distant memory.


This is not hard, everyone!

Blogger kilo papa October 27, 2013 4:57 PM  

Hey GG, so glad you could take time away from your gerbil experiments to comment.

Actually, I learned my "awesome debate skills and impressive moral views" from your mother.......during breaks when she was stroking my balls and licking my cock.

Thanks for asking, though!!!

Anonymous scoobius dubious October 27, 2013 5:01 PM  

"And "two" is most likely the limit for the average Christian retard."

But we're the closed-minded bigots.

Just wanted to keep things straight.

The interesting thing about leftists is, that they never know what they actually sound like. They all have a very bright future producing Rebecca Black records.

Blogger kilo papa October 27, 2013 5:03 PM  

@shamus,

The idea that your filling your seven (get a fucking condom, idiot) children's heads with ''scripture" and logic is so pathetically preposterous as to be laughable!!!

I hope that your children are able to eventually escape the brainwashed lunacy of religious belief that you are saturating their poor, indefensible brains with.

You should be ashamed, you pathetic idiot.

Anonymous scoobius dubious October 27, 2013 5:04 PM  

I wonder if kilo papa ever wanders over to Muslim religious-education sites and showers them with abuse.

Or even Jewish ones.

Anonymous GG October 27, 2013 5:04 PM  

"Hey GG.."

Wow, kilo, do you kiss your mother with that mouth? You're talking to a girl, you know, a mother and grandmother in fact. Congratulations, you've just mastered the language of every other traumatized 13 year old little boy left in public school.



Blogger kilo papa October 27, 2013 5:07 PM  

scoobius doofius,

I wonder if you ever pull head out if your ass long enough to contemplate the asinine horse shit that seems to constantly stream from your pathetic excuse for a brain.

Anonymous Anonagain October 27, 2013 5:10 PM  

Malthus is the blabbering fruitcake who also stunk up threads with the same claptrap as yttik as well as other handles. A retarded cunt by any other name is still a retarded cunt.

Anonymous VD October 27, 2013 5:13 PM  

I wonder if kilo papa ever wanders over to Muslim religious-education sites and showers them with abuse. Or even Jewish ones.

No, like all brave atheists he prefers to attack religions that accept persecution. He's absolute hell on the Quakers.

Blogger kilo papa October 27, 2013 5:14 PM  

Hey CG, (aka grandma) Thanks for taking time away from your vaginal rejuvenation pamphlet in order to comment.

If you're the product of home schooling, then I feel sorry for your deluded, brainwashed children.

Homeschooling, because what we need more of is Kirk Cameron's!!!!

Anonymous VD October 27, 2013 5:15 PM  

At least they have college degrees.

You know they sell them to anyone dumb enough to go into debt for one, right? That's like saying "at least they ate at McDonalds". College degrees are not achievements, they are products.

Blogger kilo papa October 27, 2013 5:15 PM  

VD, what an approximate monicker.

I guess gonorrhea was too hard to type for you.

Anonymous Anonagain October 27, 2013 5:16 PM  

If you don't read the blathering of the deranged Christophobe, there is nothing to respond to. It should be obvious to even a child that this KP is incapable of thought, much less reasoned discourse. The scroll bar is your friend.

Anonymous GG October 27, 2013 5:16 PM  

Anonagain, you're an ass. This is yttik and I don't give a crap who knows it. I have been pushed around and terrorized one too many times. VD is free to make me go away, but the rest of you can just lump it.

Anonymous VD October 27, 2013 5:17 PM  

(Except for masturbating)

You exhibit a certain obsession with auto-eroticism. Read some Game sites and then try actually talking to real women.

Anonymous scoobius dubious October 27, 2013 5:18 PM  

"scoobius doo_f_ius"

Hey man, I'm in awe. That is just effin brilliant.

I'll break this down for all the slow-pokes out there, since it whizzed by literally at the speed of light! See, instead of "dubious," he wrote "doofius," thereby calling me a doofus. In Latin! Six-dimensional Xargakian mind-chess! A master, he!

Don Rickles, step aside, there is a new giant of insult comedy: prepare yourself for the Eulerian brilliance of kp.

Or should we start calling you "Quick-Draw"?

Anonymous Anonymous October 27, 2013 5:20 PM  

kao pectate posted:

"Jebus-brain...Kirk Cameron...Dinosaurs....NAAAARF!!!!"

all that's missing is......"because I said so, dipshit!!!!"

Anonymous Anonagain October 27, 2013 5:21 PM  

Well, Vox, the thread is infested. Permit these blabbering monkeys to continue, and they will take over every thread with their pestilence.

Anonymous Anonagain October 27, 2013 5:24 PM  

This is yttik and I don't give a crap who knows it.

That only means there are two blabbering fruitcakes I need to ignore.

Anonymous Anonymous October 27, 2013 5:25 PM  

Insulting a grandmother and then insulting a family with seven children (who else is going to pay taxes when you are alone in a state-fun facility endlessly pressing your call button to have your ass wiped)...your public school system on full display, I present - kilo papa. Poor misguided liberals - you decry big families as wasteful, you encourage your women to forgo their child-bearing years to focus on careers, your worship includes your precious sacrament of abortion - then you expect the government to fund and police everything with a diminished population. You're literally too stupid to insult. Enjoy dying alone - I'm sure your state will take good care of you.

Anonymous Anonymous October 27, 2013 5:25 PM  


GG posted:

"Kind of ironic, the defenders of public education who show up here always seem to use the most obscene and vulgar language, like above. Wait, don't tell me, kilo learned his awesome debate skills and impressive moral views in public school?"

He learned them at Y.U.I.A.A. = the YouTube University of Internet Atheist Ass-Clowns

Anonymous GG October 27, 2013 5:26 PM  

Okay, I'm out of here for today. Seriously though, thank you and God bless, VD.

Blogger kilo papa October 27, 2013 5:27 PM  

Hey scoobius, so good to see that your mothers congenital, vaginal warts didn't interfere with your ability to compose a blog post that your retarded sister would surely be proud of!!

Your wit is approaching the elevated level of Ray Comfort!!

You should be proud!!!!

Now, if you could only find a way to type without your uncles cum spilling out of your mouth and onto your keyboard......

Blogger kilo papa October 27, 2013 5:30 PM  

Mangrove, does your mother know that you're not practicing your clarinet lesson?

And by clarinet, I don't mean your tiny penis.

Blogger kilo papa October 27, 2013 5:33 PM  

JDC, how long have you been out of your Bi-Polar medication?

Did you perhaps have to concentrate on your Viagra meds instead?

Anonymous Anonymous October 27, 2013 5:37 PM  

Wow...kao pectate is not an atheist, as calling him such would be an insult to atheists (even YouTube ones).

Dick Assman just called. He says:

"kao pectate-kilo papa is a dick AND an ass!!!!"

Anonymous Noah B. October 27, 2013 6:03 PM  

Kilo papa, how would you rank yourself among atheist intellectuals? On a scale of 1 to 10.

Anonymous Jill October 27, 2013 6:04 PM  

"Jill, I have family and friends who have been public school teachers, and every one is a good, sacrificing person. Teachers are not the schools. Good teachers are victims of the schools almost as much as the kids are."

Huh? Head scratch.

In other news, this thread has been taken over by poo-flinging monkeys.

Anonymous Concerned Rabbit Hunter October 27, 2013 6:06 PM  

If you are home schooling can you have guns in the house?

Anonymous Anonymous October 27, 2013 6:06 PM  



kp:

"If you're the product of home schooling, then I feel sorry for your deluded, brainwashed children."

Gramsci social-engineer fail.


shamus posted:

"KP, do you also object to secular humanist homeschooling?"

Of course kao pectate objects to that too, for he belongs to the Church of State Worship, where no competition is allowed (iow, no 'home churches')



Blogger kilo papa October 27, 2013 6:27 PM  

"Poo flinging monkeys"

Wow!! That was a real shot at you, Mangrove!

Anonymous damntull October 27, 2013 6:34 PM  

I found out today that my 8-year old 3rd grader has been doing a unit on segregation in the schools. Fortunately for me, I found out about it before parent-teacher conferences. Guess what we'll be talking about!

Anonymous kh123 October 27, 2013 6:50 PM  

Oh, honor roll decorum. Will it never end.

Anonymous DrTorch October 27, 2013 6:53 PM  

Public school is systematic child abuse.

Maybe, But what is for sure is prison.

School is prison.

Even hard core leftists (those who still connect liberal w/ freedom and not statism) agree, school is prison

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/freedom-learn/200909/why-don-t-students-school-well-duhhhh

http://www.salon.com/2013/08/26/school_is_a_prison_and_damaging_our_kids/

Anonymous B Lewis October 27, 2013 6:59 PM  

I went to Pubic Skool all twelve years. So did my wife.

We vowed: not our kids. No matter how much it costs.

They go to Catholic school.

Cailcorishev: our Catholic school has:

Nuns in habits
Latin and Greek, beginning in first grade
Statues of Our Lady and Saint Joseph in every classroom
Ditto crucifixes
Mass on Wednesdays (V2 version, alas -- one can't have everything)
Modest jumper/kilts uniforms for girls; shirt and tie for boys
Principal and faculty who are orthodox Catholics

So it is possible to find good Catholic schools. They're not cheap -- but it's worth it. I work three jobs, by the way, and I'm happy to do so.

We live literally right around the corner from our city's top-rated public elementary school. When my son was about to start first grade, he asked me "Papa, why can't I just go to XYZ Elementary?"

My answer: "Because at XYZ elementary, Jesus has to wait outside until school is over."

'Nuff said.

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother October 27, 2013 7:04 PM  

I love how K P uses the language he does to "shock" us, as if none of ever heard it before!

I reel with every profane comment. Wow!

Blogger Joel October 27, 2013 7:07 PM  

Hyperbolic much? I'm no big fan of public schooling (I plan to homeschool my daughters) but surely there's a vast difference between "getting a crappy education" and "getting burned with cigarette butts". Because the latter is what typically comes to mind when you say "child abuse".

Anonymous Anonymous October 27, 2013 7:12 PM  

If you are home schooling can you have guns in the house?

How else are you gonna teach gun cleaning and safety?

B. Lewis, I'm glad to hear you found a good one. I know they still exist, but they're rare, and I've never had the pleasure of visiting one. There is some interest in starting one in my town, but it would mean going up against the present schools and the diocese, so it won't happen fast.

My point was that people can't just send their kids off to a typical parochial school and expect any of what you describe. Investigate, verify, and be involved, just as with any other type of school.

Blogger mmaier2112 October 27, 2013 7:13 PM  

B Lewis October 27, 2013 6:59 PM

"Papa, why can't I just go to XYZ Elementary?"

My answer: "Because at XYZ elementary, Jesus has to wait outside until school is over."

'Nuff said.


Sincerely, good for you & yours, but read over the textbooks carefully. If the teachers and administrators that choose the books have degrees, they're probably still at least partially-brainwashed.

Anonymous VD October 27, 2013 7:21 PM  

Well, Vox, the thread is infested. Permit these blabbering monkeys to continue, and they will take over every thread with their pestilence.

If people would simply ignore them, they would stop. We've been through this many times before. Every time you leap through their hoops, you're doing exactly what they want.

Anonymous Ulmer Miller October 27, 2013 7:27 PM  

Sometimes the trolling is so poorly done, I wonder if it's not just one of the ilk playing a prank--just to see if they can bait the true fools into defending a pseudonym's comments. It is amusing though!

Anonymous rycamor October 27, 2013 7:33 PM  

Joel October 27, 2013 7:07 PM
Hyperbolic much? I'm no big fan of public schooling (I plan to homeschool my daughters) but surely there's a vast difference between "getting a crappy education" and "getting burned with cigarette butts". Because the latter is what typically comes to mind when you say "child abuse".

Pay a little more attention to the man behind the curtain. The discussion is not just about whether one's education is of a lower quality. It is about active poisoning of minds. It is about presenting to children a limited and twisted idea of what life is and can be. It teaches licentious freedom of personal appetite but slavery in every other way. The whole point of it (admitted by its the creators) is to purposely limit children's horizons and to prevent them from even having the mental tools to question what is handed to them.

The problem is, those whose minds have been so poisoned cannot see this unless they embark on their own program of serious reading, discussion and self-examination.

Anonymous Jill October 27, 2013 7:52 PM  

"Hyperbolic much? I'm no big fan of public schooling (I plan to homeschool my daughters) but surely there's a vast difference between "getting a crappy education" and "getting burned with cigarette butts". Because the latter is what typically comes to mind when you say "child abuse"."

I view it more as Stockholm Syndrome than child abuse. Identifying with captors is a method of self-protection. It doesn't necessarily imply that the captors (or stronger parties) are abusing their authority, even though that very well could be the case.

Anonymous Shibes Meadow October 27, 2013 7:59 PM  

1. Sending a child into an environment that one knows to be harmful constitutes child abuse.

2. Public schools are such environments.

3. Therefore, sending a child to a public school constitutes child abuse.

QED

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler October 27, 2013 8:28 PM  

Vox writes: "The fact is that if you believe in public education, you are every bit as much a Nazi as someone who believes Jews should be oven-baked and every bit as much a ..."

Vox go jump off a cliff. You are stupid. The problem is not public education but the socialist infiltration of American society. Vox fails to differentiate between the institution which is neutral and the people that make up that institution. Public Schools in the hands of traditional Christians--can and does produce good students. Institutions are value free. It is the people in them.

We are swimming in a sea of political correctness which is Jewish ideology. Vox says nothing. Public schools are institutions that can be driven to either spectrum. Vox's argument is that the "essence" of public schools is evil. There is no evil in the essence of public schools. It is the people that make it up that do so. America is Socialist/Marxist. So the schools mirror the environment that they are in. It is the environment that is evil--not institutions. But Vox with his Mensa capabilities can't figure that out.

Anonymous Jill October 27, 2013 8:30 PM  

"Sending a child into an environment that one knows to be harmful constitutes child abuse."

This is why I would still argue for Stockholm Syndrome. Many parents learned to identify with their captors when they were children. If they identify with the system, how do they then "know" it is harmful? But now we're just arguing intentions and culpability. Abuse is still abuse, regardless of whether the guardians of minor children are aware that the abuse is occurring. Ultimately, I think what you're going to run into is scepticism toward calling public-schooling systemic abuse. You could argue that it is under a limited definition of abuse--brainwashing, maybe? But we all inculcate our worldviews in our children, so I hope that that doesn't constitute abuse. It's really not a coincidence that my children are libertarians, for example. I homeschool them, and they tend to express variations on my worldview.

Anonymous Dr. Idle Spectator, MIT Mathematics October 27, 2013 8:41 PM  

Your proof is flawed.

Counterexample:

There exist environments that one does not know to be harmful, but are harmful, and children are sent into anyway.

There exist public schools that are such environments.

Therefore, sending a child to public school does not always constitute child abuse.

QED

Blogger kilo papa October 27, 2013 8:53 PM  

Stg58/Animal Mother

You are reeling from being an idiotic twit.

Just in case you were confused.

Blogger Patrikbc October 27, 2013 8:55 PM  

Well, second day on this forum and thanks to yesterday's dialogue I'm seeing a pattern emerge with Kilo papa. Are You just compulsively miserable, bitter, and malicious? Did your dad not hug you enough? Is your state still not allowing gay marriage? Or have you just found this to be the only safe place a coward like yourself can run his "man pleaser" without getting his chiclets knocked out by any random Girl Scout?
Vox, I tried humility and restraint yesterday....sorry :) it wasn't working for me.

Blogger kilo papa October 27, 2013 9:13 PM  

Hi Patrikbc,

How much time have you spent thinking about my "man pleaser" today?
I thought I felt an extra tingle.

It was so good of you to take time away from your gonorrhea treatments in order to comment.

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother October 27, 2013 9:16 PM  

Ignore him. He will go away.

Anonymous Anonymous October 27, 2013 9:20 PM  

We homeschool, but supplement traditional classroom education (no more than 6 kids) twice a week so the kids can get out of the house and mom gets a break, not to mention drum lessons, figure skating, etc. etc. The stereotypes about homeschoolers are hilariously off the mark.

Homeschooling is about making the choice to do what is best for your child. As a parent, you know best their signature strengths and weaknesses. No teacher will invest as much time and energy into making sure the child gets it, than you.

I say, let the money follow the child...not the school. With homeschooling, there is no redundant administration, no standardized tests (you already know if he "gets it"), no union negotiations, no pressure to be politically correct and wish everyone happy Kwanza, no bullies/shootings, no need for parent teacher conferences.

Is it a sacrifice? Absolutely. It can be exhausting sometimes, but you can rest soundly at night that your child is being raised as a respectable, honest, and descent human being free from distractions and temptations.

Homeschool your kids! YOU WILL BE HAPPY YOU DID AND THEY WILL LOVE YOUR FOR IT!

Anonymous cherub's revenge October 27, 2013 9:33 PM  

The rabbit's close cousin the "yeahbut", is swarming the comments section over there. There's even a someone claiming to be a minister (certainly of the churchianity sect) claiming that homeschooling prevents Christian children from being the "salt and light" of the government schools.

Leaving aside that that isn't a role to be played by 7 year olds tossed into a lions den, he seems to have skipped over John 17: 14-15.

Blogger Joel October 27, 2013 9:57 PM  

Well okay, supposing we all agree that the the inevitable effect of public school is to harm children by poisoning their minds in some fundamental way, then yeah, I guess it's child abuse. But that sounds... a bit extreme (absent perhaps those ghetto schools that are actually physically dangerous). As long as we're talking about mere indoctrination, then public school is not that much more pervaded by foolish pieties than modern culture - are you all advocating storing your children in a bunker? If not, then in either case it seems like you, as a parent, have the same responsibility: to teach your children how to deal with nonsense. The effects you describe are only a danger to those whose parents completely abdicate their role.

Anonymous farmer Tom October 27, 2013 10:27 PM  

InDoctrination

Anonymous Shibes Meadow October 27, 2013 10:27 PM  

@Joel: With all due respect, you are rationalizing.

@ Dr. Idle Spectator, MIT Mathematics. While I'm sure your knowledge of the mathematics is extensive, your knowledge of logic is less thorough, to wit: Your counterexample is flawed.

Counterexample:

1. There exist environments that one does not know to be harmful, but are harmful (e.g., public school), and children are sent into anyway.

2. It is the duty of parents to be aware of such environments

3. Therefore, parents who send a child into such environments (e.g., public school) fail in their duty as parents (= child abuse)

You are trapped. Parents either know or do not know that public schools are inherently harmful to children. Parents who know that public schools are inherently harmful to children but send them to public school anyway are guilty of intentional child abuse. Parents who do not know that public schools are inherently harmful to children but send them to public school anyway are guilty of negligent child abuse. Either way, public school = child abuse.

The whole idea of public education is stupid. The only proper role of government is government. Education has nothing to do with government, and the government should play no role whatsoever in education. A government has no more business being involved with schooling than it does operating a passenger railroad or administering a nationwide mandatory health care scheme.

Anonymous Anonagain October 27, 2013 10:39 PM  

"If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come!" -- Matthew 18:6-7

There is no doubt about the public schools' animosity towards Christianity, and the godless agenda they push. Thus, public schools cause little ones to stumble. Woe to them and to the Christian parents who send them there to be devoured by the Leftists.

Anonymous rycamor October 27, 2013 11:05 PM  

@Joel,

It goes beyond just indoctrination. Everything about the model and the method exists to manipulate the child into a mental strait jacket. If it were simple indoctrination (which is how I used to view it), I wouldn't be so perturbed. The people that created this monster were very straightforward about their intent. Every bit as straightforward as Hitler was about his. And in like manner, the world just didn't believe it until it happened. The founding fathers of American education carefully engineered it into something that would purposely stunt our children's intellectual growth, and starve their sense of love, honor and respect for anything that was not that great abstraction known as Society, the only creature who has a right to make demands on you. The mechanisms in use are well known in their manipulative power even against rational adults. What defense does a child have?

Anonymous Anonagain October 27, 2013 11:22 PM  

InDoctrination

Good clips. Thanks, FT.

Blogger kilo papa October 27, 2013 11:34 PM  

Ahh, the "godless agenda" of public schools.

Yeah, that goddamn math, science, history, English, and even home economics!!!!!

Arrrrrggghhh!!!! We just need to get Jeezus back into the educational system and everything will be all right!!!!

Preach on, brother!!!!! Praise Jeezus, praise his holy fucking name!!!!!!

Anonymous Harsh October 27, 2013 11:50 PM  

kilo papa, if you are a product of public schools, I definitely am homeschooling mine.

Anonymous Stickwick October 27, 2013 11:56 PM  

Joel: But that sounds... a bit extreme (absent perhaps those ghetto schools that are actually physically dangerous).

It's not just the ghetto schools that are actually physically dangerous. My father recently retired from 30+ years of teaching in predominantly white public high schools, and his observation was that for a significant % them the hallways are just an extension of the street. Every nasty thing you can imagine happening with these kids is happening on school property: drug use, drinking, sexual acts of all kinds, physical confrontations, intimidation, threats, etc. The last few years of his career he taught at a school in an ostensibly nice neighborhood and more than once had to break up a vicious fight in which some kid was close to being killed. Vicious girl-on-girl fights were also not uncommon. And, unlike the way most of us observed fights in school back in our day, kids nowadays see nothing wrong with several attackers against one kid or someone using a weapon in a fight. There is no honor, there is no mercy.

The fact is, most parents have no clue what the school environment is actually like for their children. Based solely on what I know from my dad's experiences, my kid will never set foot in a public school.

Anonymous Carita October 28, 2013 12:09 AM  

"Public school is systematic child abuse. It is that simple. Don't ever be defensive about home schooling. When someone asks you why you homeschool, just tell them "public school is child abuse" and give them the opportunity to explain how and why that statement is incorrect. They will not be able to do so."

This is a good strategy. Since there is no evidence that public school is child abuse, you wouldn't want to try defend this claim yourself.

Where did you go to school? In the south?

Anonymous Concerned Rabbit Hunter October 28, 2013 12:34 AM  

"If you are home schooling can you have guns in the house?"

How else are you gonna teach gun cleaning and safety?


In CA it is illegal to have a gun within 1,000 feet of a school.

If you are home schooling, does your residence constitute a school? If so, the big government slavers might come after you for violating those laws if you home school and have guns in your school/home.

Anonymous dh October 28, 2013 12:56 AM  

Stick--

And, unlike the way most of us observed fights in school back in our day, kids nowadays see nothing wrong with several attackers against one kid or someone using a weapon in a fight. There is no honor, there is no mercy

Agreed, in "the day", not long ago really, a fight was for two people to fight. You took a lick, or you gave one, and it often ended up without one party or the other really doing anything - a shuffle, a headlock, a few quick jabs.

Now I see it often that more or less feral kids will attack in groups, either in a general meelee, or more often, a beatdown. Just a beatdown. They will seek opportunities to pick an enemy off from the pack, and issue a beatdown.

I homeschool not for religious reasons though. One of my children was immune compromised and that lead us to keep her home, and then the next one came of school age and it was just so obviously unfair for us to keep one home and send one to the wolves.

Years down the line, I get endless crap from my leftist friends. I just tell them that we love our children more than they love their own kids.

Blogger Revelation Means Hope October 28, 2013 1:31 AM  

I agree with Vox. Government schools are child abuse.
But often we see that the general public refuses to see the truth whenever the truth will have a direct impact on their income and pleasures.

But I have to admit I get a kick out of the head spinning that occurs when I make a statement like that in all seriousness. Linda Blair would be proud. The more their guilty consciences have been bothering them, the greater the volcanic eruption! What fun.

Anonymous Dr. Idle Spectator, MIT Mathematics October 28, 2013 1:56 AM  

While I'm sure your knowledge of the mathematics is extensive, your knowledge of logic is less thorough, to wit: Your counterexample is flawed.

I see. Have you heard of symbolic logic? It's a branch of logic, and mathematics.

Parents who do not know that public schools are inherently harmful to children but send them to public school anyway are guilty of negligent child abuse. Either way, public school = child abuse.

Bzzzzt, wrong.

By your own definition in the original proof: 1. Sending a child into an environment that one knows to be harmful constitutes child abuse.

That is your definition, not mine. Contradiction found. Fail. Thanks for playing.

My counterexample stands.

The whole idea of public education is stupid. The only proper role of government is government. Education has nothing to do with government, and the government should play no role whatsoever in education. A government has no more business being involved with schooling than it does operating a passenger railroad or administering a nationwide mandatory health care scheme.

Extraneous to the proof. Redact it or face certain constipation.

Anonymous Ann Morgan October 28, 2013 2:10 AM  

Jake wrote: **"Every child in America entering school at the age of five is mentally ill .... It’s up to you as teachers to make all these sick children well**

It isn't quite clear to me how you make a mentally ill person well by making sure that they are repeatedly physically tortured and sexually molested until they get complex post traumatic stress disorder, but perhaps I am simply old fashioned.

Anonymous Ann Morgan October 28, 2013 2:23 AM  

Kilo Papa wrote: **Ahh, yes, let's let's replace educated, trained professionals with untrained religious retards who think the Earth is 6000 years old, Noah had dinosaurs on his ark, a man lived in a fish, and global warming is make believe.**

False dichotomy. And the latter may be more desirable in the sense that if their particular beliefs are not as plausible, someone taught them may be more easily able to later reason their way out of them.

Anonymous Ann Morgan October 28, 2013 2:36 AM  

Some advice for people sending their children to public schools:
If your child has any medical condition that has even a remote chance of being life-threatening (such as certain allergies), when you give the school the required paperwork informing them of this, be very certain to get a copy of the paperwork BACK from the school, signed by the appropriate person acknowledging that they have recieved the paperwork. Do not lose this signed copy.

Otherwise, if the school makes some sort of mistake with your child, such as giving peanuts to a child with a peanut allergy, absent this proof in your hands that you did, in fact, give them the paperwork informing them of the allergy, the first thing that will happen is that paperwork will mysteriously vanish, the school will claim that you never gave them the paperwork.

The second thing that will happen is that you will lose custody of that child for 'neglect', as 'failing' to inform the school of your child's allergies constitutes neglect.

The third thing that will happen is that you will lose custody of all your other children, since if you are neglecting one child, you are probably neglecting the others as well.

Expect that your children can and will be given into the custody of someone previously convicted of sexually molesting them, and that the government 'can't consider' that fact when deciding where to place your children.

Expect to lose your house in order to be able to afford your lawyer fees when you try to fight this and regain custody of your children.

Do not expect to get your children back, the public schools have infinitely deep pockets and will simply drag the case on until you run out of the money you got from selling your house.

Anonymous Idle Spectator October 28, 2013 2:43 AM  

Oh MY GOD THAT IS THE MOST AMAZING POST. Thank you Ann! That certainly WILL HAPPEN.

//claps

Anonymous Ann Morgan October 28, 2013 2:50 AM  

Joel wrote: **surely there's a vast difference between "getting a crappy education" and "getting burned with cigarette butts". Because the latter is what typically comes to mind when you say "child abuse".**

Joel - Getting burned with cigarette butts is, in fact, what happened to me in school. Along with having my hand deliberately slammed in a solid metal door, having my breasts and genitals groped. Having objects stuck down my pants into my genitals. Having gum and glue put in my hair. Being spat on. Having male students expose themselves to me. Being chased by crowds of people until I tried to cram myself under a small space in the bleachers. Being knocked down in a locker room and having obscenities written on my naked body. Having teachers claim that they 'didn't see' when half their class was out of their seats harassing me (about 10 feet in front of where they were sitting) because they were 'busy correcting papers'.

Not that that exonerates religious schools. Plenty of crap happened to me at the religious school I attended from K-3, and many of the students who abused me in high school came from K-8 religious schools.

Anonymous Idle Spectator October 28, 2013 2:52 AM  

Ann, I have serious question, so I need you to be serious for a second.


Where do you buy your weed?

Anonymous Ann Morgan October 28, 2013 2:57 AM  

Idle Spectator wrote: **Oh MY GOD THAT IS THE MOST AMAZING POST. Thank you Ann! That certainly WILL HAPPEN.**

No, Idle, that is what DID happen, to a friend of my mother's. But since you are so smart, maybe you'd like to go to this woman's house and tell her that the so-wonderful teachers and adminstrators of the public schools would never-ever do such a thing to cover up their own mistakes, and that everything that has happened to her in the past several years has really been nothing but a horrible nightmare, and she really still has ownership of her house and her three children are safe and sound asleep in their bedrooms.

Anonymous Ann Morgan October 28, 2013 3:05 AM  

I don't do drugs, Idle. And I'm glad you find the abuse of children so amusing. Mind you, Christ was quite vehement in the bible about the undesirability of harming children. But probably I missed the part where Christ went on to say that this really only included the popular and cute children, and that it was perfectly fine to hurt children who were ugly or not social enough, or who were too smart for their gender or social class, or didn't react to the abuse in what others deem to be the proper way. Or whose parents happened to annoy the wrong other adult officials. Since you are so smart, can you tell me the chapter and verse where Christ went on to explain all of that so I can look it up in my bible and avoid future errors of this sort?

Anonymous Idle Spectator October 28, 2013 3:08 AM  

It happened to PERSON A, so it will HAPPEN TO PEOPLE. YEAH ANN! With 166 IQ too!

//claps


Ok, I'm not sure why I am even typing this out, but maybe for the lulz...

I have trait T associated with every element in the set {a,b,c,d,e}. That means any element picked at random will have trait T. P => Q. True.

I have trait T associated with a random element in the set {a,b,c,d,e}. That means trait T is associated with every element in the set. Q => P. False.

See how your one anecdote does not really scale up in general?

Anonymous Idle Spectator October 28, 2013 3:33 AM  

I don't do drugs, Idle.

I'm certainly convinced.

And I'm glad you find the abuse of children so amusing.

No, I just find you amusing.

Mind you, Christ was quite vehement in the bible about the undesirability of harming children.

Are you SURE? I thought for sure he liked that. You are just fucking with me, right?


Since you are so smart, can you tell me the chapter and verse where Christ went on to explain all of that so I can look it up in my bible and avoid future errors of this sort?

No, but I can direct you to the Book of Idle.

Whereverth a man come upon an Ann Morgan, let him not cum upon her, but instead run in posthaste from the Satan of bad logic. The Gates of Hell are opening upon you with the hisstronics of her woman. - Book of Idle, 7:11

Anonymous Anti-Democracy Activist October 28, 2013 4:44 AM  

Speaking of schools run by "educated, trained professionals", Fred Reed had a bit to say about that today in his latest column:

http://fredoneverything.net/Valentines1.shtml

Anonymous VD October 28, 2013 4:52 AM  

Since there is no evidence that public school is child abuse, you wouldn't want to try defend this claim yourself.

You make the mistake of confusing dialectic and rhetoric. The anti-homeschooling arguments are rhetorical. Therefore, the correct way to address them is with superior rhetoric, because the vast majority of anti-homeschoolers are incapable of dialectic.

Provide them with evidence? You might as usefully speak to them in French.

Anonymous Anti-Democracy Activist October 28, 2013 5:01 AM  

Oh, now that I think about it...

Being overly impressed by college degrees - believing that merely having one makes you smarter than other people, or necessarily better at something than a person without one might be - is the sign of a real yokel. It's like people who think that Hollywood runs on talent and artistic passion - hayseeds who watch the E! network may think that; insiders will laugh in your face for saying such a stupid thing. One of the blessings that being educated and intimately familiar with academia myself has given me is to disabuse me of the notion that having a college degree - even an advanced degree - means you know a damn thing about anything. You might, or you might just have been able to figure out how to work the system in college (it's not that hard - it mostly involves parroting back whatever your prof. tells you in their lectures).

Sorry, but just like being close to show biz will be enough to strip anyone of foolish notions of "the glamor of Hollywood", being close to academia has been enough to strip me of foolish notions of the innate intelligence and wisdom of people who have college degrees.

Anonymous Ann Morgan October 28, 2013 5:15 AM  

Okay, Idle. You just keep believing that public school teachers are little angels in human form and would never-ever do anything bad to protect their own ass, or do what jailers do everywhere, and sacrifice certain inmates to the most violent of the other inmates because it makes things much more convenient for them in various ways. I hope for the sake of any child in your family that none of them ever varies significantly from average other than to be exceptionally good looking.

Anonymous Dr. Idle Spectator, Cambridge English October 28, 2013 5:26 AM  

The Book of Idle is going on my unidled bookshelf, beside the other books I have written in the comments. Namely Curious George Visits Vox Popoli, Atoms Love Diversity, and Tundra Love: Woman and her Forbidden Pinniped.

Don't forget my shorter works either, like the poems The Legendary Legend of John Scalzi and The Homeless Never Leave Home. And my screenplays such as Let's Talk About Rape and Majestic Climate Scientists of the Penis Graph.

Anonymous FrankNorman October 28, 2013 6:03 AM  

The second thing that will happen is that you will lose custody of that child for 'neglect', as 'failing' to inform the school of your child's allergies constitutes neglect.

The third thing that will happen is that you will lose custody of all your other children, since if you are neglecting one child, you are probably neglecting the others as well.

Expect that your children can and will be given into the custody of someone previously convicted of sexually molesting them, and that the government 'can't consider' that fact when deciding where to place your children.

Expect to lose your house in order to be able to afford your lawyer fees when you try to fight this and regain custody of your children.

Do not expect to get your children back, the public schools have infinitely deep pockets and will simply drag the case on until you run out of the money you got from selling your house.


I don't like reading about this sort of stuff, as it makes me far too angry for my medical wellbeing.

I suspect that sooner or later, they are going to pull that sort of stunt on the wrong person, and that person will take matters into his or her own hands, rather than trying to work through the system.

Anonymous Anonymous October 28, 2013 7:29 AM  

If you are home schooling, does your residence constitute a school?

Things vary a lot from state to state. In my state, no, but check into yours. The HSLDA has a lot of information on what's required, and which states are the best. Some have no restrictions at all: they're your kids, you decide how/when to educate them. It's not necessarily the states you'd expect, either.

By the way, don't ask the school what's required. They'll lie to you. Here, for instance, you may ask the local public school for assistance, which gives them permission to oversee your curriculum and schedule and test your kids. It's not required at all, but they'll try to convince you it's necessary.

Anonymous Thomas Malthus October 28, 2013 7:46 AM  

"I agree with Vox. Government schools are child abuse."

"The fact is, most parents have no clue what the school environment is actually like for their children."

"Parents who know that public schools are inherently harmful to children but send them to public school anyway are guilty of intentional child abuse."


Well, then, it's settled! My modest proposal serves as the model. Those parents who send their children to the belly of the devil known as public schools are child abusers, who cannot possibly fathom that their personal choice directly affronts human decency. There is simply no other way to put it. After all, a mountain of evidence exists.

Of course, Christians are MORALLY compelled to intervene in the protection of children (Proverbs 29:22, Ephesians 4:26-27, and Colossians 3:21 in particular). Since nearly everyone here agrees with the overall assessment, we have a DUTY to report it to the appropriate authorities. Otherwise, most assuredly, falsely characterizing this situation and outright refusing to become actively involved is a mortal sin tantamount to abortion and thus would anger God.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler October 28, 2013 8:40 AM  

Yea, Vox. The Spartans had Public Education called the Agoge. It was Socrates and Plato that learned their philosophy from PUBLIC Educated Men. Socratic and Platonic Philosophy comes from the Spartans. Their society lasted over 800 years with Public Education.

Christian Seminaries are Collective Education because the Church controlled Civil Society. It was the Collective Educated clergy that carried through Western Culture and Civilization.

Prove that wrong. I am collectively educated by 12 years of Catholic schooling. Far superior to any homeschool.

Anonymous Carita October 28, 2013 9:38 AM  

"You make the mistake of confusing dialectic and rhetoric. The anti-homeschooling arguments are rhetorical. Therefore, the correct way to address them is with superior rhetoric, because the vast majority of anti-homeschoolers are incapable of dialectic."

No mistake was make. No one here has done more than claim that public school is child abuse. No evidence. No argument. Nothing. Just claims. Then you, Mr. Beale, you suggest that someone offer the counter argument instead.

You're an idiot who not only can't defend your claim, but try to hide that fact by claiming use of a rhetorical device.

Want child abuse? Inculcating a child with fantasies about magic gods, Santa Claus, Jesus or faeries.

Blogger Joel October 28, 2013 9:45 AM  

Well, Vox, if we're going to be rhetorical, my answer to your claim is "Riiiiiight". Now is there any more to this, or are you just being provocative?

Anonymous Stickwick October 28, 2013 10:18 AM  

Want child abuse? Inculcating a child with fantasies about magic gods, Santa Claus, Jesus or faeries.

Looks like we've got another graduate from the Richard Dawkins Finishing School for Ideological Discourse and Social Graces.

Anonymous Anti-Democracy Activist October 28, 2013 10:25 AM  

"Socratic and Platonic Philosophy comes from the Spartans."

Err... no. Those men were Athenians through and through, who fought a war against Sparta, and rejected Spartan Timocracy the same as they rejected the other systems of government that were around at the time.

Compare a list of great Athenian philosophers, poets, playwrites, and scientists to a similar list of Spartans. Yeah.

"Their society lasted over 800 years with Public Education."

And sucked. No, really - Gary Brecher had a great column on this a while back: http://www.exile.ru/articles/detail.php?ARTICLE_ID=8516

No one in their right mind would want to copy the Spartans.

"No mistake was make. No one here has done more than claim that public school is child abuse. No evidence. No argument. Nothing. Just claims."

Forcing children to go to kiddie jail five days a week, whether they or their parents want it or not, so they can face boredom, bullying, and bullshit in conditions that often amount to a publicly-funded Hell In A Cell match for seven hours a day, is child abuse on its face.

"Want child abuse? Inculcating a child with fantasies about magic gods, Santa Claus, Jesus or faeries."

"I win because atheism" is not a valid argument either, though it sure is a popular one.

"educated, trained professionals"

The leftist obsession with the idea that everything will be wonderful if we just put it all in the hands of "experts" goes back to Marx and Ballamy. It's one reason why leftism is so popular with self-appointed "elites" - the idea of a society run by "experts" is extremely appealing to those who stye themselves as experts. But if the idea was worth a damn, Marxism wouldn't have turned out to be the godawful failure it is. Again, only gullible marks stand in wide-eyed, slack-jawed awe of whatever damn fool comes down the pike waving a diploma at them. Anyone with actual smarts and real exposure to academia knows better.

Anonymous Jill October 28, 2013 10:42 AM  

I would like everybody to see where all this public education eventually leads: Grad School Barbie. She's totally hot.

Anonymous Michael Maier October 28, 2013 11:32 AM  

Again... better opponents would be so nice.

Anonymous Josh October 28, 2013 12:12 PM  

Prove that wrong. I am collectively educated by 12 years of Catholic schooling. Far superior to any homeschool.

Actually, you're making an argument in favor of homeschooling.

Homeschool your kids lest they turn into a Spartan.

Blogger Joel October 28, 2013 12:13 PM  

Tangentially, ADA, I suppose you've read "The Republic". Sure Socrates (and Plato) were Athenians (well, Socrates was until he wasn't, because the Athenians executed him), but what with the communal wives and dedicated warrior caste and whatnot, don't you find Plato's ideal city rather... Spartan?

Anonymous Athor Pel October 28, 2013 12:55 PM  

" Carita October 28, 2013 9:38 AM

"You make the mistake of confusing dialectic and rhetoric. The anti-homeschooling arguments are rhetorical. Therefore, the correct way to address them is with superior rhetoric, because the vast majority of anti-homeschoolers are incapable of dialectic."

No mistake was make. No one here has done more than claim that public school is child abuse. No evidence. No argument. Nothing. Just claims. Then you, Mr. Beale, you suggest that someone offer the counter argument instead.

You're an idiot who not only can't defend your claim, but try to hide that fact by claiming use of a rhetorical device.

Want child abuse? Inculcating a child with fantasies about magic gods, Santa Claus, Jesus or faeries. "





Be careful what you wish for. You have some work ahead of you.

Here, read this,

John Taylor Gatto, Underground History of American Education

and this.

Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt, the deliberate dumbing down of america

Enjoy.


FYI, everyone here that thinks putting children in public school is child abuse has read these books, everyone, including Vox.

Anonymous Sigyn October 28, 2013 1:19 PM  

Hyperbolic much? I'm no big fan of public schooling (I plan to homeschool my daughters) but surely there's a vast difference between "getting a crappy education" and "getting burned with cigarette butts". Because the latter is what typically comes to mind when you say "child abuse".

That would be because you don't understand WHY child abuse is so terrible. Hint: It's not the actual violence.

As long as we're talking about mere indoctrination, then public school is not that much more pervaded by foolish pieties than modern culture - are you all advocating storing your children in a bunker? If not, then in either case it seems like you, as a parent, have the same responsibility: to teach your children how to deal with nonsense.

There's a difference between showing a child a stream of sewage and saying, "You see, honey? That's filth. Don't get that on you," and picking him up and tossing him in while shouting, "Don't get that on you, honey!"

Sure Socrates (and Plato) were Athenians (well, Socrates was until he wasn't, because the Athenians executed him), but what with the communal wives and dedicated warrior caste and whatnot, don't you find Plato's ideal city rather... Spartan?

I'm not sure Plato was advocating that as an ideal.

Anonymous Sigyn October 28, 2013 1:28 PM  

Want child abuse? Inculcating a child with fantasies about magic gods, Santa Claus, Jesus or faeries.

Millions of people throughout history have believed in Jesus, and came out just fine. In fact, the finest art has been produced by them, the finest music, the greatest literature, nations that have spanned the ages, and charities doing great works. That doesn't even include the advances to science and technology.

Meanwhile, in the last two generations as unbelief has risen, we have produced unreal ugliness and called it art, music that is little more than thumping on things and grunting or screeching, barely-literate garbage passing as "literature" that informs and uplifts no one, closed down charities, driven nations into bankruptcy and collapse, and managed to put a large number of formerly cured diseases beyond curing.

I eagerly await your explanation of how any of these things are evidence of a population enjoying good mental health.

Anonymous Sigyn October 28, 2013 2:26 PM  

Also, Ann? I'm sorry your friend is going through that and that you went through what you did.

Don't let Idle get to you. He's a perfect example of how an intelligent person can be an idiot.

Anonymous A.M. October 28, 2013 2:28 PM  

The poll found that Americans who believe in God are also much more likely to blame or give credit for weather and disasters to God, not man-made global warming or politicians. Overall, 53 percent of those who believe say God has some role in weather and disasters, with 36 saying it happens most or all of the time. Just 17 percent said God has no role in weather.

No word on what % of Christians support infantcide (Deuteronomy 7:1-2) or stoning of homosexuals (Leviticus 20:13) or toddlers (2 Chronicles 15:12-13) ...

Anonymous Sigyn October 28, 2013 2:49 PM  

I wonder if A.M. is trying to say that it's rational to blame politicians for the weather?

Anonymous Stickwick October 28, 2013 3:08 PM  

I wonder if A.M. is trying to say that it's rational to blame politicians for the weather?

Kinda seems that way. Meanwhile, no word on what % of non-believers blame, you know, nature for weather and disasters.

Anonymous 11B October 28, 2013 3:37 PM  

No word on what % of Christians support infantcide (Deuteronomy 7:1-2) or stoning of homosexuals (Leviticus 20:13) or toddlers (2 Chronicles 15:12-13) ...

Why are you using examples from the Hebrew Bible to mock Christians?

Blogger "1951" October 28, 2013 3:45 PM  

No word on what % of Christians support infantcide (Deuteronomy 7:1-2)

All Christians are in favor of it, or should be. The Canaanites were utterly evil, a society of monstrous quasi-humans (they were descended from Nephilm) whose entire culture was centered upon the roasting of infants as a means of sating the bloodlust of the demon they worshiped as god. Killing them off, babies and all, was less an act of genocide and more an act akin to exterminating a race of horrible extraterrestrial hybrids, e.g., the critter from that movie Aliens.

And even if they had been 100% human, so what? God created mankind. Our lives are His to dispose of as He wills. If He decreed that every man, woman, and child in America were to be put to the sword He would be entirely within His rights. He created us and He can uncreate us, and we have no basis to criticize Him either way. The clay dare not judge the Potter.

stoning of homosexuals (Leviticus 20:13)

Necessary and beneficial in those times. Not necessary now that salvation is available, although stoning the ones who corrupt the souls of minors would probably be a salutary thing.

or toddlers (2 Chronicles 15:12-13)...

Huh? I don't know what Bible you're reading. Here is 2 Chronicles 15:12-13 from mine:

And he went in to confirm as usual the covenant, that they should seek the Lord the God of their fathers with all their heart, and with all their soul.And if any one, said he, seek not the Lord the God of Israel, let him die, whether little or great, man or woman.

No mention of "toddlers", you'll note. The size reference in v. 13 ("little or great") refers to social rank, not age or physical size.

I know you think you've really got the goods on ol' Jesus, here, thanks to your vast knowledge of Scripture, but what you don't realize is that Scripture is not the final world on what is and is not the authentic Truth by which Christians live. Such a practice ( it's called "bibliolatry") promotes a book (the greatest of all books) to the status of God. But the Bible is not God. Its Author is God. We have the Bible because we have the Church, which was created by the Author in the Person of Jesus Christ as a means of passing the Truth to all men throughout the ages. The Church, guided and inspired by the Author in the Person of the Holy Spirit, created the Bible, not the other way around; and the Church is the final authority on what any given passage of the Bible means.

In the case of Leviticus 20:13, for example, the Church teaches that homosexual acts are intrinsically immoral and may not be condoned. It also teaches that the Old Testament punishment decreed by God for homosexuals no longer applies. Some Old Testament laws (those concerned with the universal natural law rather than Hebrew tribal law) do apply to Christians, but others do not, and only the Church founded by Christ upon Peter has the authority to distinguish which OT laws we are to follow.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler October 28, 2013 4:25 PM  

Hey, anti-democracy activist,

Feast your eyes on this paper:

http://www.sparta.markoulakispublications.org.uk/?id=143
"Doric Crete and Sparta, the home of Greek philosophy" written by yours truly. I quote Socrates no less where he says "the most ancient and fertile lands of Greek philosophy is Crete and Sparta"---SOCRATES said that!!! He ought to know and Plato wrote that!

And if you were half-educated you would have read Plutarch's bio of Lycurgus where he says that the Spartans have a "philosophic state". Plutarch and Socrates.

Don't mind while I call anti-democracy activist not only ignorant but stupid and ill-informed and deceived, an idiot savant.

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn October 28, 2013 4:50 PM  

So this is that "Wheeler" creature you oft make a proverb.

I wonder, does he worship Ares and Artemis?

Anonymous Idle Spectator October 28, 2013 6:24 PM  

Don't let Idle get to you. He's a perfect example of how an intelligent person can be an idiot.

Notice this comes after I tore Ann's logic to pieces. So if I am an idiot, by implication Ann is either vegetable, mineral, or soap. Exhibit A of how a woman will always defend another woman, even one clearly under the influence of something from a bottle.

Next I expect a girl's day out with smoothies to discuss those nasty boys.

Anonymous Anti-Democracy Activist October 28, 2013 7:23 PM  

"http://www.sparta.markoulakispublications.org.uk/?id=143
"Doric Crete and Sparta, the home of Greek philosophy" written by yours truly. I quote Socrates no less where he says "the most ancient and fertile lands of Greek philosophy is Crete and Sparta"---SOCRATES said that!!! He ought to know and Plato wrote that!"


The URL tells the story. A bunch of Sparta fanboys like Sparta. Why am I supposed to be surprised?

Your Socrates quote, with no context given, means nothing, and my point stands: Make a list of great Athenian philosophers, pets, playwrites, and scientists, then do the same for Sparta. It's no contest. Not even close.

"And if you were half-educated you would have read Plutarch's bio of Lycurgus where he says that the Spartans have a "philosophic state".

Plutarch lived long, long after the height of Sparta, and idealized it unreasonably. Ancient historians should generally be taken with a grain of salt - their focus was much more on a narrative then on historical accuracy. Hey - now that I think about it, maybe they weren't so different from modern historians after all!

"Why are you using examples from the Hebrew Bible to mock Christians?"

Yeah, that always galls me. Always challenging Christians to defend the most severe parts of the Old Testament as if Jesus hadn't come along and changed anything. But the left are hysterical sophists who argue with pathos-laden dishonesty, so what do you expect?

Besides, without Jesus, the world would still be using "Old Testament" morality all over. Or at least Roman morality, which wasn't a lot better (especially of you weren't a citizen). This is the truth whether lefties admit it or not.

Anonymous Anti-Democracy Activist October 28, 2013 7:24 PM  

Poets, not pets. Though I bet the Athenians had some nice-looking housecats.

Anonymous Sigyn October 28, 2013 7:35 PM  

Notice this comes after I tore Ann's logic to pieces.

I hate to tell you this, Idle, but it wasn't a logical argument as such. It was an account of something that DID happen and therefore COULD happen, and the means to avert it. I'm not sure what "logic" you think you're deconstructing by insisting that it was a one-time event and that, somehow, this proves that Ann was on drugs or drunk when she wrote the account.

Exhibit A of how a woman will always defend another woman, even one clearly under the influence of something from a bottle.

"Always"? Honey, I thought you were supposed to have some kind of genius IQ or something--and then you go and say something silly like "always". Again, you may be really intelligent, but that doesn't stop you from being an idiot. And a troll.

Seriously, if you want you an "Exhibit A", you'll need to look at someone who has actually defended Ann before this thread--which would not include me. But you'd have to actually pay attention to things in order to know that, so I forgive you. This time.

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn October 28, 2013 7:40 PM  

Oh, Pet, you must give our dear Idle some charity. He is, after all, only a mortal, and necessarily believes that his own limited experiences are universal. Leave him to the comforts of his poker night, where he and his bro's can discuss those nasty women over their whiskey.

Anonymous Sigyn October 28, 2013 7:41 PM  

Oh, Pet, you must give our dear Idle some charity. He is, after all, only a mortal, and necessarily believes that his own limited experiences are universal. Leave him to the comforts of his poker night, where he and his bro's can discuss those nasty women over their whiskey.

Exhibit A of how a man will always defend another man, even one clearly under the influence of something from a bottle!

Anonymous Anonymous October 28, 2013 7:57 PM  

Stifle.

Anonymous Idle Spectator October 28, 2013 8:02 PM  

Oh no you deeeednt.

I hate to tell you this, Idle, but it wasn't a logical argument as such. It was an account of something that DID happen and therefore COULD happen, and the means to avert it. I'm not sure what "logic" you think you're deconstructing by insisting that it was a one-time event and that, somehow, this proves that Ann was on drugs or drunk when she wrote the account.

See, I think you are lying. I think you loved telling me that. I think I'll just copy and paste my entire post again. Not because I have to, mind you, but because I find it, really, really, funny...

----
Ok, I'm not sure why I am even typing this out, but maybe for the lulz...

I have trait T associated with every element in the set {a,b,c,d,e}. That means any element picked at random will have trait T. P => Q. True.

I have trait T associated with a random element in the set {a,b,c,d,e}. That means trait T is associated with every element in the set. Q => P. False.

See how your one anecdote does not really scale up in general?
----

See? See how that works?

And I mentioned the drugs bit because she typed out two or three paragraphs about her feelings, as if we actually cared. My eyes glazed over as I read it, and my hand got suicide-gun-twitchy. I'd get on Oprah or The View if I wanted that.


"Always"? Honey, I thought you were supposed to have some kind of genius IQ or something--and then you go and say something silly like "always". Again, you may be really intelligent, but that doesn't stop you from being an idiot. And a troll.

Well, that depends. If I have a set with {a} I can say it is "always" a. Troll is codetalk here for winning at life.

Why you fail so much?


Seriously, if you want you an "Exhibit A", you'll need to look at someone who has actually defended Ann before this thread--which would not include me. But you'd have to actually pay attention to things in order to know that, so I forgive you. This time.

Actually, that would be Exhibit B if it happened on another thread. Fail... And why on Earth would I pay attention to Ann over a long period? She types paragraphs about her feelings.

Blogger The Aardvark October 28, 2013 8:33 PM  

"There's even a someone claiming to be a minister (certainly of the churchianity sect) claiming that homeschooling prevents Christian children from being the "salt and light" of the government schools."

NOT the children's job, no matter how many episodes of "The Captain's Club" you listen to. You train up the child to make them ready to do such, not drop them into the lion's den with a handful of pulp tracts and a handful of memorised salvation verses.

Anonymous Sigyn October 28, 2013 9:01 PM  

Oh no you deeeednt.

We deeeed! We deeeeed!

See, I think you are lying. I think you loved telling me that.

Okay, guilty. I enjoyed catching you out in a moment of stupidity. Thank you for the opportunity.

See? See how that works?

Yes. I see that you applied the wrong analysis to the situation in a cheap attempt to score Man Points.

And I mentioned the drugs bit because she typed out two or three paragraphs about her feelings, as if we actually cared. My eyes glazed over as I read it, and my hand got suicide-gun-twitchy.

Honey, wanting to kill yourself just because someone said something about feelings is not normal. I'd look elsewhere for the drug problem.

If I have a set with {a} I can say it is "always" a.

That would assume that the set is {a} to begin with.

Troll is codetalk here for winning at life.

So Tad wins at life. Got it. *side-eyes at everyone*

Actually, that would be Exhibit B if it happened on another thread.

No, Exhibit A for an "always" proposition requires the entirety of a subject's conduct be taken into consideration. Thus, I am not the Exhibit you are looking for. Nice try, though.

And why on Earth would I pay attention to Ann over a long period?

I wasn't talking about Ann, honey. I'll let you puzzle it over tonight; I have another, more exciting troll to play with.

Blogger Joel October 28, 2013 9:04 PM  

I dunno. Having gone to public school for seven years or so without, so far as I'm aware, having turned into an atheist, liberal, or idiot (pretty sure about the first two) - I just think y'all are overstating the harm. Sure there are terrible public schools, but there are also a lot of mediocre, non-terrible public schools. So I don't see what motivates all the vitriol here.

As far as comparing Sparta and Athens goes... I'm just saying let's be cautious. Sure, democracy's great, until it's really really terrible.

Anonymous Idle Spectator October 28, 2013 9:30 PM  

Okay, guilty. I enjoyed catching you out in a moment of stupidity. Thank you for the opportunity.

Believe me, the pleasure is all mine...


Yes. I see that you applied the wrong analysis to the situation in a cheap attempt to score Man Points.

I see. And what part of the analysis is wrong? This outta be good...


Honey, wanting to kill yourself just because someone said something about feelings is not normal. I'd look elsewhere for the drug problem.

That's true. But I think the more relevant point is the paragraphs and paragraphs of them. Quantity changes the nature qualitatively. Like a glass of water vs. a pool of water. I'm sure you can deduce the implications of that, right?


That would assume that the set is {a} to begin with.

And your point is? You just rewrote what I just said with different words.


Troll is codetalk here for winning at life.

So Tad wins at life. Got it. *side-eyes at everyone*


"Here" does not mean "over there" as in "not here." Bzzzzzt!!!


No, Exhibit A for an "always" proposition requires the entirety of a subject's conduct be taken into consideration. Thus, I am not the Exhibit you are looking for. Nice try, though

Well, no. Like if I have a small rock collection, and I have Exhibit A showing a black rock. That's an exhibit for a proposition that rocks are always black. Now, did I ever prove the proposition of all rocks being black, or did I merely present it? Tick tock, tick tock...

Do or do not, there is no try.


I wasn't talking about Ann, honey. I'll let you puzzle it over tonight; I have another, more exciting troll to play with.

The only puzzle here is how you can keep posting after I owned you so thoroughly. You are being bad now.

Anonymous Thomas Malthus October 28, 2013 10:20 PM  

Amid the little bitch tests [pardon my french] here, I implore the Christians who frequent this blog to save our children from the tyrannical clutches of the public school. Today, millions of our youth were systematically abused. Again, I impassionately plea that Christians are MORALLY compelled to intervene in the protection of children (Proverbs 29:22, Ephesians 4:26-27, and Colossians 3:21 in particular).

Since nearly everyone here agrees with the overall assessment, we have a DUTY to report it to the appropriate authorities. Are we as Christians going to stand idly by as evil runs rampant on a daily basis, bring forth God's wrath for outright refusing or willfully ignoring His command?

Anonymous rycamor October 29, 2013 12:20 AM  

Idle Sperg Troll's methodology:

a) Purposely misconstrue hyperbolic/emotive/rhetorical/inductive statement as an attempt at deductive reasoning
b) Spastic display of formal logic skillz to rip the straw man to shreds, while totally missing the point (I'll be charitable and conclude that said point-missing is purposeful)
c) Draw opponent into pitched battle via (I didn't say/yes you did/misconstrue/redirect)
d) Pretend the other person doesn't understand the obvious.
e) "Whee, I got people mad at me again! See how I rock!" (Dorky dance routine by keyboard...)

Only the spergiest of the spergs reading Ann's post would conclude that she was making an absolute statement. It is of course in the common form of a warning of what is possible: "Don't do X or Y will happen, like it happened to me." Hyperbole... a reasonable, enjoyable and useful form of communication for anyone with a hint of emotional maturity.

Anonymous Gatto October 29, 2013 12:42 AM  

Christians are MORALLY compelled to intervene in the protection of children

Only their own. Your Collectivism is showing.

Anonymous bw October 29, 2013 12:55 AM  

vast difference between "getting a crappy education" and "getting burned with cigarette butts". Because the latter is what typically comes to mind when you say "child abuse"

The material is the all in all, is it Joel????

Anonymous Idle Spectator October 29, 2013 1:40 AM  

Idle Sperg Troll's methodology:

Watch out WORLD! rycamor finally has my methodology down! Now you shall surely defeat me in the final battle. Atop ye noble steed!

a) Purposely misconstrue hyperbolic/emotive/rhetorical/inductive statement as an attempt at deductive reasoning

If I so purposely misconstrued it, it should be as simple as quoting me and correcting it. But that never really happens, does it?

b) Spastic display of formal logic skillz to rip the straw man to shreds, while totally missing the point (I'll be charitable and conclude that said point-missing is purposeful)

If by spastic, you mean "precise and accurate" then yes. And if it is a straw man, it should be as simple as quoting me and pointing it out.

c) Draw opponent into pitched battle via (I didn't say/yes you did/misconstrue/redirect)

It's never really pitched. More like drawn out on horseback to the inevitable raping and pillaging by Genghis Idle. And It's real simple: if I said it, feel free to quote me.

Also, do you know how many times people have drawn me in? I don't particularly care, I go in anyways for the lulz...

d) Pretend the other person doesn't understand the obvious.

Look, it is not my fault that they are retarded and breathing through a straw. Blame your Wrathful God.


e) "Whee, I got people mad at me again! See how I rock!" (Dorky dance routine by keyboard...)

I do rock, but no need to rub it in.


Only the spergiest of the spergs reading Ann's post would conclude that she was making an absolute statement.

And I concluded that where? I'm sure spergs usually write satire and talk about rape and penises too. Hyuk hyuk.

See, this is where reading comprehension is important. Cheer-up, buckaroo!

It is of course in the common form of a warning of what is possible: "Don't do X or Y will happen, like it happened to me." Hyperbole... a reasonable, enjoyable and useful form of communication for anyone with a hint of emotional maturity.

I wrote screenplay called Majestic Climate Scientists of the Penis Graph, and I don't do hyperbola? I see. And she said "expect." Why the hell would I "expect" a peanut allergy going to losing your house? Maybe if I was writing a parody of what could happen.

My friend went to McDonalds.

Expect a line when you get there. Then he got his food.
Expect it to have salmonella, Since that is what he had.
Expect it to be antibiotic resistant. Since that is what he had.
Expect it to be causes your colon to explode. Since that is what happens.

So if you eat fast food, expect to DIE from an exploding COLON. It happened to me and it can happen to you!

Anonymous Ann Morgan October 29, 2013 3:34 AM  

A couple big differences between McDonalds and Public schools, Idle:

1. McDonalds is not owned by the same governmental entity which would be prosecuting them, or failing to do so, if someone gets sick on their food.
2. They are legally required to adhere to certain quality standards.
3. People are not forced at the point of a gun to either eat at McDonalds, or financially support them regardless of whether they eat there or not.

Anonymous Ann Morgan October 29, 2013 3:47 AM  

Sigyn, the incident with the child who had the peanut allergy happened to my mother's friend, not mine. Other than that and what happened to me, I've heard plenty of other stories, such as another friend of my mother's whose son's teachers refused to teach him with a certain method which they were legally required to do (he had learning disabilities) until she got a lawyer after them. And a friend of mine had a son whose teacher had a fit because her private tutoring of him, by raising his grades, was 'undermining' what the school was trying to do. After a rather unpleasant conversation with the teacher and the administrators of the school, during which they refused to explain exactly what it was that the school was trying to do which was 'undermined' by her son being better educated, she removed him from the school and started homeschooling him instead.

4 incidents may not sound like a lot, but I'm reminded of a passage in the book 'Alas Babylon', in which two characters are discussing the fact that 4 Russian submarines were found in the Gulf of Mexico. One character said that 4 submarines didn't sound like that many in such a large body of water, but the other pointed out that actually being able to find 4 submarines in such a large body of water - when they were very hard to find and there really weren't supposed to be any submarines at all - was like kicking a haystack and having 4 needles just so happen to pop out at your feet. Chances are, the haystack is stiff with a LOT of needles.

Anonymous Idle Spectator October 29, 2013 6:58 AM  

A couple big differences between McDonalds and Public schools, Idle:

1. McDonalds is not owned by the same governmental entity which would be prosecuting them, or failing to do so, if someone gets sick on their food.
2. They are legally required to adhere to certain quality standards.
3. People are not forced at the point of a gun to either eat at McDonalds, or financially support them regardless of whether they eat there or not.


OH MY GOD ANN! THANK YOU!

Other big differences:
They have the Golden Arches.
They serve Big Macs.
Some of them have ball pits.

Can you think of other big differences? Submit your ideas care to Vox Popoli.


Hey crycamor, remember when you called me the "spergiest of the spergs" and complained about "Pretend the other person doesn't understand the obvious"?

Yeah... Now apologizzzze. Kiss it.

Anonymous Sigyn October 29, 2013 7:47 AM  

Believe me, the pleasure is all mine...

*muses to self* Is it attention-whoring, or masochism? Maybe both. Could also be drugs.

I see. And what part of the analysis is wrong? This outta be good...

Since Rycamor covered it so well...what he said.

That's true. But I think the more relevant point is the paragraphs and paragraphs of them. Quantity changes the nature qualitatively. Like a glass of water vs. a pool of water. I'm sure you can deduce the implications of that, right?

Exaggerate more. It really emphasizes your manliness.

And your point is? You just rewrote what I just said with different words.

Would a simple "If" have been better? I know you have problems with big words.

"Here" does not mean "over there" as in "not here." Bzzzzzt!!!

Excessive Asherizing. Ten yard penalty, repeat first down.

Well, no. Like if I have a small rock collection, and I have Exhibit A showing a black rock. That's an exhibit for a proposition that rocks are always black. Now, did I ever prove the proposition of all rocks being black, or did I merely present it?

So you admit you're extrapolating a universal truth from a single, isolated incident? Like you (wrongly) think Ann was doing?

Tick tock, tick tock...

Drugs make you say weird things.

The only puzzle here is how you can keep posting after I owned you so thoroughly. You are being bad now.

Sperg dance moar!

Anonymous rycamor October 29, 2013 8:07 AM  

Idle, my whole point is to instruct others to ignore you when you're just playing games, and only bother to respond on those rare occasions when you actually contribute to the fucking discussion at hand. Although, those occasions are getting rarer.

Anonymous Idle Spectator October 29, 2013 8:47 AM  

*muses to self* Is it attention-whoring, or masochism? Maybe both. Could also be drugs.
Exaggerate more. It really emphasizes your manliness.
Would a simple "If" have been better? I know you have problems with big words.
Drugs make you say weird things.
Sperg dance moar!


So basically you have... absolutely nothing here? Got it.

Since Rycamor covered it so well...what he said.

Except for the "refuting every point made" part.

Excessive Asherizing. Ten yard penalty, repeat first down.

More like showing you 2 + 2 = 4 not 5. Asher would argue about what an equals sign is really trying to say.


So you admit you're extrapolating a universal truth from a single, isolated incident? Like you (wrongly) think Ann was doing?

No.


Idle, my whole point is to instruct others to ignore you when you're just playing games, and only bother to respond on those rare occasions when you actually contribute to the fucking discussion at hand. Although, those occasions are getting rarer.

Oh that's right. The last time you said to ignore me is when Genghis Idle raped and pillaged you on that cancer thread. Now I remember. Your soul now has cancer. Could not help yourself returning to the vomit, could you?

Because telling people not to do something makes them not want to do it. "Don't push the red button!"

Anonymous Sigyn October 29, 2013 8:55 AM  

The last time you said to ignore me is when Genghis Idle raped and pillaged you on that cancer thread.
Your soul now has cancer.
Could not help yourself returning to the vomit, could you?


So basically you have... absolutely nothing here? Got it.

Anonymous rycamor October 29, 2013 11:48 AM  

Idle, in cancer thread you actually discussed the matter at hand somewhat substantively, in spite of the gratuitous insults. The only reason I'm bothering to respond right now is that I think you have potential for intellectual discourse. If you would stick to that instead of the needy teen one-upmanship I would have no quarrel with you.

Anonymous Idle Spectator October 29, 2013 3:09 PM  

So basically you have... absolutely nothing here? Got it.

Would you like a link? Assuming the comments are still there.


Idle, in cancer thread you actually discussed the matter at hand somewhat substantively, in spite of the gratuitous insults.

It is never gratuitous. IT has the Idle Touch. That's what my opponents presented me with. Really I think I need better opponents. Don't hate the Idle, hate yourselves.


The only reason I'm bothering to respond right now is that I think you have potential for intellectual discourse.

You really think so crycamor? Like the part where I owned you on spergs? Kiss it. Yeaaaah.


If you would stick to that instead of the needy teen one-upmanship I would have no quarrel with you.

Where's the fun in that? If only my opponents were not mewing anencephalics... Most of them are the "what is is" level.

Anonymous Dumbo is Gatto, Mr. Roboto October 29, 2013 6:40 PM  

Christians are MORALLY compelled to intervene in the protection of children--"Only their own. Your Collectivism is showing."

We fulfill the law of Christ when we genuinely care for and seek to minister to the needs of one another, as fellow servants--out of love. For the second day in a row, millions of Christian parents putting their children's in harm's way, and the most you do is offer a lame excuse as to why their fellow Christians should remain idle.

Why do you support evil?

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