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Thursday, April 24, 2014

The Torlings scheme

So much for the idea of moving on. In the squalid semi-aquatic home of the Nielsen-Haydens, the Torlings have taken their cue from Mr. Scalzi and are planning their Hugo voting strategy accordingly:
TOR editor PNH: On stories from Tor.com making up over one-third of the short-fiction finalists: LOUD CRIES OF WOO HOO. And congratulations to Andy Duncan & Ellen Klages (“Wakulla Springs,” best novella), Charles Stross (“Equoid,” best novella), Mary Robinette Kowal (“The Lady Astronaut of Mars,” best novelette), Thomas Olde Heuvelt (“The Ink Readers of Doi Saket,” best short story), and Viable Paradise alumnus John Chu (“The Water That Falls on You from Nowhere,” best short story).

#25 ::: Andrew Plotkin ::: April 20, 2014, 05:43 PM:

You made this coy statement in the open thread as well, and I confess that I still don't know whether you're referring to the Jordan/Sanderson or the Correia. Or something in one of the other categories.

#27 ::: Xopher Halftongue ::: April 20, 2014, 06:25 PM:

Andrew, I was referring to the Novelette category, where one of the items is by someone who calls himself "Ibk Qnl" (rot13'd so his egoscan won't find this thread so easily) (and yes, he means what that sounds like he means by it) aka Gurnqber Ornyr, also known as "the RSHD" (for Racist, Sexist, Homophobic Dipshit - not rot13'd because if he's searching for himself by that name, well, haha, RSHD). I see no reason to read his work and judge it on its merits. He would not do that for my work, or for any work by a woman or person of color.

#59 ::: Alan Braggins ::: April 21, 2014, 10:22 AM:

Charlie Stross has said he will be ranking "No Award" above "Anthem" in the retro-Hugos. I suspect he will not be alone in that.

#175 ::: Xopher Halftongue ::: April 24, 2014, 02:47 AM:

As for Vox Day, I propose that the gang of idiots who do the bidding of that racist, sexist, homophobic dipshit be henceforth called "snotlings" (I got this from a card/board game I played years ago). They're not even up to the level of trolls. They're just little runny noses with legs, and they can be annoying to clean up after, but not seriously damaging, because they're so pathetic.
Since the Torlings have decided to so thoroughly politicize the Hugo Awards vote this year, it seems to me that one would be absolutely remiss if one failed to follow their example by voting NO AWARD above every single work published by Tor and every nominated Tor editor this year. After all, since there are so few of us and we are not seriously damaging, it can't possibly matter what we do. Just a thing for you to keep in mind when voting time rolls around, for no particular reason at all.

A few more examples of Torling strategery in action:

tnielsenhayden ‏@tnielsenhayden
I look forward to record levels of "5. No Award. 6. Vox Day" in the Best Novelette category.

John Scalzi on Whatever
Apropos of nothing in particular, however, I will note that in every category it is possible to rank a nominated work below “No Award” if, after reading the work in question and giving it fair and serious consideration, you decide that it doesn’t deserve to be on the ballot and, say, that its presence on the ballot is basically a stunt by a bunch of nominators who were more interested in trolling the awards than anything else. Just a thing for you to keep in mind when voting time rolls around.

John Scalzi on Whatever
I’ve seen rumblings of people suggesting they’ll put everyone on the Correia/Day slate below “no award” no matter what

Charlie Stross @cstross Apr 19
I won’t comment on current nominees, but the dead are fair game: I’ll be ranking “no award” above “Anthem” in the retros.

Charlie Stross ‏@cstross Apr 19
No: it would be inappropriate for me, as a nominee, to attack other nominees. I shall reserve comment until after the award.

Charlie Stross ‏@cstross Apr 19
No, it means Vox Day’s troll posse esteem Vox Day more than you. I’d call that a badge of honor, if I were you.

Charlie Stross ‏@cstross Apr 19
I doubt VD can afford to buy the award vote. Buying nominations is a much, much cheaper kind of shit-stirring.

Charlie Stross ‏@cstross Apr 23
I find no inaccuracies in this RationalWiki page except that it ranks the subject with other, *real* pundits: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Theodore_Beale …

Ian Sales ‏@ian_sales
@PrinceJvstin the reasonable response to the Hugo farrago is to put "no award" above the Axis of Evil works

Djibril al-Ayad ‏@thefuturefire
I am looking forward to ranking “No Award” higher than Vox Day, Larry Correia, Brad Torgerson, Dan Wells, Steve Diamond, & Toni Weisskopf.

XoScarab Halftongue ‏@Halftongue
Well, look at this. A Hugo nom that ended up AFTER "No Award" on the final ballot. http://www.nesfa.org/data/LL/Hugos/hugos1987.html

Christophe ‏@Xof
@jacobian A quick moment to remind Hugo voters that ranking a particular work behind "No Award" is an option in the final voting.

Just F-ing Keftastic ‏@Keffy
A propos of y'know whatever, remember that the Hugo ballot has a lovely No Award option that you can place at any point in your ranking. :)

Andrew Hickey ‏@stealthmunchkin
Didn't vote in Hugos last couple of years because Hugo Packet PDF rather than proper epub. May have to this year,to put "no award" above Day

James Davis Nicoll
Monday April 21, 2014 05:15pm EDT on Tor.com
Happily, the Hugos not only allow one to rate an undeserving work below all the others, it also allows one to rate said undeserving work below No Award.


Kate Nepveu
I feel under no obligation to read Vox Day's work, under the guise of fairness or anything else, and neither should you. 

Labels: , ,

235 Comments:

1 – 200 of 235 Newer› Newest»
Anonymous Alexander April 24, 2014 9:14 AM  

I confess, that does make things simpler and should save me some valuable time that I could be doing other things than reading about lady astronauts. And since it's clear that the Hugo Awards is something the warren considers it's turf, it would be very rude for me, as a first time voter, to not abide by the rules and standards set down by the old guard.

Anonymous AmyJ April 24, 2014 9:15 AM  

My God, they're despicable. Most of these mewling snotrags have been decrying the Hugos as a popularity contest, all the while employing Mean Girl tactics against the authors they don't like.

Do they even read what they write? Ever?

Anonymous zen0 April 24, 2014 9:17 AM  

I now have a better understanding of the phrase, "beneath contempt". thank U.

t's clear that the Hugo Awards is something the warren considers it's turf,

More like its Lawn, as in "Get off my Lawn".

Anonymous Big Bill April 24, 2014 9:18 AM  

This is so cute! It reminds me of the high school battles over Prom King and Prom Queen. "How can you vote for Muffie knowing that she stole Biff from Boopsie?!?!"

Blogger Markku April 24, 2014 9:19 AM  

I'd say the Sad Puppy Saga has been an incredible success. Of course everyone KNEW the Hugos were a popularity contest, but it was very hard to demonstrate this even to the level of proof where a person who came to it with no previous opinion would be convinced.

However, NOW it's just a matter of compiling all this to a list, and there's our talking point.

Anonymous Asatru Heathen April 24, 2014 9:22 AM  

Do they really have no idea what is about to happen?

Anonymous Alexander April 24, 2014 9:26 AM  

To his credit, Scalzi probably does.

He just hasn't a clue what to do about it.

Anonymous Peter Garstig April 24, 2014 9:26 AM  

You have a rot13 scanner! I knew it

Anonymous Fred2 April 24, 2014 9:29 AM  

As a reader for several years, I fail to see what it is about you and Mr. Correia that gets them so heated up and bent out of shape.

They toss out all those words: racists, homo-phobe, etc... but I'm not entirely convinced they know what they mean; nor frankly even it were true, how it has any relationship the quality or content of your fiction writing. ( In which I do not see any particular propagandist display of the above)

I mean, God knows of enough talented writers who wrote good Works of Literature, but whose personal lives and opinions would be best left under the rug, in a closet, or otherwise turned a blind eye to as they were immoral, cruel and otherwise deeply unpleasant people in person and to their friends, lovers and acquaintances.

I find it notable that aside from obvious digs & ad homonym attacks, their comments about your actual stories are jejeune and un-serious, at best. Hey I can get my head around not liking your literature or stories, but until I see a substantive critique, with examples, and someone can make a cogent argument that your stuff is substantively any worse than any number of other popular authors, they are by definition just jealous little ankle biters.

Good luck on the nominations

Anonymous Nathan April 24, 2014 9:30 AM  

Simple, next year, bring in more voters. Need a bigger Sad Puppies or a Kratman's Legion, hell, one of the ComicCons should do a deal with WorldCon. Turn this award from a cool kid popularity contest into a proper people's choice award. Drown out these aging New York-blinded wannabe hipsters in the voice of Joe and Jane Sixpack. I bet that popular science fiction won't match the warren's idea of what is Good and Right.

Considering the madness going on as the rabbits blindly attack everything and the hatred that Sanderson's picked up for being a Mormon, even though he had nothing to do with Sad Puppies, who do you think Tor will disown first, the man writing Tor's new flagship epic fantasy or the SJWs populating their website?

Anonymous Anonymous April 24, 2014 9:31 AM  

What losers, seriously. I can't think of a better term for them. And they're not even smart enough to realize that all their claims about your supposed ego-scanning just scream projection. Now I know they actually sit around hunting through blogs and twitter feeds looking for any mention of themselves. Losers.

Blogger Nate April 24, 2014 9:35 AM  

"He just hasn't a clue what to do about it."

He's doing what he can to walk the tightrope. He knows Larry didn't do anything that he didn't do. He can't condemn Larry... and he knows if he doesn't express proper outrage that he'll be eaten by his own followers.

I suspect that only now at the end... as the knives are just starting to come out... will he realize what a terrible mistake he made when he decided which side would win.

Anonymous dh April 24, 2014 9:35 AM  

There is a serious cost-benefit that could be done on this. Based on the number of winning votes in the last year, it would be trivially expensive for someone with even a little of wealth to simply run the board and snatch up the nominations and the Hugo's. I'd have to see sales numbers, but there is probably a case that the media and internet attention is worth the expense.

These people are messing with the wrong group.

Anonymous Nathan April 24, 2014 9:38 AM  

Toni Weisskopf has said that there is zero benefit to sales driven by a Hugo nomination or even a Hugo win. None.

Anonymous dh April 24, 2014 9:39 AM  

I suspect that only now at the end... as the knives are just starting to come out... will he realize what a terrible mistake he made when he decided which side would win.

Yes, Scalzi is on the edge of having to disagree in public with feminists or to admit he did something that has had a bad result. Two things that he can't tolerate.

You know when he's in full change topic mode, because yesterday and today have been all things that are very light and pop-culture related. This is his pattern. When burns bridges he goes dark for a bit and comes back with sugar.

Blogger Beefy Levinson April 24, 2014 9:41 AM  

This is my reaction whenever I read the Mean Girls' writing about Vox.

Blogger Nate April 24, 2014 9:43 AM  

I note as well that the Pinkies are disabling comments on all of their posts on the topic. There is only one reason to do that.

on some level... they know they are about to hammered.

Anonymous Flinders April 24, 2014 9:44 AM  

snotlings? But my feelings....

As a spectator, I really am enjoying this. Vox and Larry must be getting stares from passers by as they smirk while walking down the street. I wish I could turn on my computer and be entertained like this daily.

Anonymous Josh April 24, 2014 9:46 AM  

This reminds me of the 2012 Iowa caucuses when the Republican establishment started to figure out that Ron Paul had a very good shoot at winning.

Anonymous Lucius April 24, 2014 9:46 AM  

I'd pay $40 to cancel out the toad's vote.

Is it still possible to get in on the voting action?

Blogger Nate April 24, 2014 9:46 AM  

"Toni Weisskopf has said that there is zero benefit to sales driven by a Hugo nomination or even a Hugo win. None."

That's what happens when you give then award to shitty message fiction for two decades.

Anonymous FvzcylGvzbgul April 24, 2014 9:47 AM  

Ibk Qnl has a nice ring to it.

Anonymous Jeanne April 24, 2014 9:47 AM  

Being that this year will be my first time voting in the HUGO awards, I want to thank all the helpful Tor editors and authors as well as Mr. Stross and Scalzi and the various readers of their blogs, etc., for all their kind tips and ideas regarding the 2014 ballot. I wasn't aware of the NO AWARD option or the ability to rank nominated works below it until yesterday when I saw someone else mention Mr. Scalzi's comments on it.

Now, I didn't have any intention of utilizing this option myself, but these helpful suggestions from those who have been voting in the awards far longer than I have swayed me. After all, I would be foolish if I didn't consider the advice of others in matters that I myself am new to.

So thank you once again to the many helpful people quoted above. I too will be utilizing the NO AWARD option this year.

Anonymous Jeanne April 24, 2014 9:48 AM  

"Is it still possible to get in on the voting action?"

Yep! Go to the LONCON 3 website and register as a supporter.

Blogger Markku April 24, 2014 9:51 AM  

I can't help it, I HAVE to quote this comment From Harlan's again:

---

Boy, the idea that people on the Right are picked on in SF is so ahistorical as to be laughable. Anyone ever hear of Baen or Tor? Do the names Campbell, Pournelle, Card, and Heinlein ring any bells? The number of writers in the genre who are conservative, reactionary, and/or libertarian is legion. Complaining about the "old white liberals", as if they are some coherent, powerful block in the SF world with the muscle to give or deny Hugos strikes me as either disingenuous, paranoid, or bullshit.

(Emphasis mine)

Anonymous Michael Maier April 24, 2014 9:52 AM  

@ Vox: "Not at all." ??????????????

Edit, sir?

For me, it's a conundrum. Is das Schadenfreude worth almost as much as a handle of Maker's Mark?

Anonymous Will Best April 24, 2014 9:52 AM  

These guys take asshole to a new level. I know for the rabbits, they believe their work is automatically superior to that of Day or Card or whoever, because if the author is invalid so is the work. But to somebody who isn't so juiced up on the kool-aid, their win becomes meaningless.

If you are a person of integrity who thinks your work should stand on its own, you can't even take enjoyment over winning an award where a significant number of the people are going to automatically disqualify 40% of our competition for something unrelated to what is being judged.

It would be like winning Wimbledon in a year Federer isn't allowed to play because he came out in support of Switzerland's anti mass immigration initiative. (I don't know what his position actually is, this is just a hypothetical)

Blogger Markku April 24, 2014 9:52 AM  

To be clear: This was not made by Harlan, it was just at his site.

Anonymous VD April 24, 2014 9:56 AM  

Is it still possible to get in on the voting action?

Yes. As a side-benefit, you'll be able to nominate for next year's awards too.

Blogger Chiva April 24, 2014 9:57 AM  

In these circumstances getting 6th place out of 5 entries would be a badge of honor.

This ongoing saga gets more humorous.

Blogger Nate April 24, 2014 9:57 AM  

"Ibk Qnl"

scalzi once claimed to be the Voldemort of Blue Sci Fi... but it was bullshit. This is the real thing. They literally avoid saying the name "Vox Day" for fear that it will draw our attention.

I am amused.

Blogger Marissa April 24, 2014 9:57 AM  

All, I had a difficult time finding the membership signup page. I might just be slow, but if you're like me, you might have scoured the Hugo Award site first. Here's the link, in the drop-down menu, select "Supporter":

Membership

Anonymous NYRKNAQRE April 24, 2014 9:58 AM  

As an added bonus, till at least the day of the vote we'll have no trolls utilizing the Hugo as proof of Scalzi's superiority.

Also, I find it hilarious that the same people outraged over voter ID laws because RACIST AGAINST HISPANICS are now accusing two gentlemen of latin extraction of rigging a vote.

Anonymous The other skeptic April 24, 2014 10:00 AM  

Perhaps they will also be annoyed by this: Conference about space weapons

Here is the important part:

She laid out the general idea, then got to the punch line: the tungsten rods needed be longer and stiffer, in order to achieve greater penetration, evidently an issue of great concern to her.

Space weapons be sexissss.

Anonymous daphnis April 24, 2014 10:02 AM  

It's because you're a talentless hack, not because everyone is missing the DEEP PHILOSOPHICAL THEMES.

Anonymous Josh April 24, 2014 10:03 AM  

Oh hello torling

Anonymous Heh April 24, 2014 10:03 AM  

They literally avoid saying the name "Vox Day" for fear that it will draw our attention.

I am reading the Percy Jackson books to my son, and I am amused...

Don't say Kronos, Furies, or Vox Day, words have power, they might hear you!

Anonymous bob k. mando April 24, 2014 10:06 AM  

Nate April 24, 2014 9:57 AM
scalzi once claimed to be the Voldemort of Blue Sci Fi... but it was bullshit. This is the real thing.



it is, isn't it?

once you notice how little the progs have in their playbook ... they actually get kind of boring.

pretty much, if they're not bullshitting they're projecting. often simultaneously.

Blogger Manach April 24, 2014 10:07 AM  

So my understanding is that the quoted persons are protesting the apparent politicising of the event by boycotting the works in question due to their perceived bias, so as not to read them, Hence that a literary field that should endeavour to prompt the promotion of the written word now effectively creates a blank page scenario; this as other posters suggest in this thread seems odd to say the least.

Anonymous Alexander April 24, 2014 10:07 AM  

Daphnis,

If Vox is such an objective hack, and if we're just a bunch of crazy extremists.

Then why you need an orchestrated campaign against him?

Anonymous Ted LeBee April 24, 2014 10:13 AM  

"jejeune "

The correct spelling is "jejune"

Blogger Joe A. April 24, 2014 10:16 AM  

Holy shit. Rabbitology is a bizarre phenomenon to observe in action. Maybe National Geographic could run a special on them so long as the camera-men are able to avoid getting too close and setting off their shrieks.

Blogger Markku April 24, 2014 10:17 AM  

I don't know if fred2 is a student of the Nate -school of spelling, or a master of puns, but "ad homonym attacks" is pure genius. Because attacking "Vox Day" indeed is one.

Blogger dc.sunsets April 24, 2014 10:17 AM  

Socionomics in action.

Signs of willingness to go to (rhetorical) war over ideology, etc., seem unprecedented. What happens, though, when the Rhetorical War-rabbits are no longer safely ensconced in their little offices?

I don't really care what people want to fight about; I do tire easily of invertebrates-with-keyboards who would wisely shrink into unlit corners if they physically met those they boldly insult from afar.

Anonymous dh April 24, 2014 10:18 AM  

Nate--

No way, it's because SAFE SPACE.. TRIGGER WARNINGS... FEEL BAD.

Anonymous rycamor April 24, 2014 10:22 AM  

Kate Nepveu
I feel under no obligation to read Vox Day's work, under the guise of fairness or anything else, and neither should you.


You get the feeling that they are actually *afraid* to read his work because they might just find their poor impressionable minds changed in some way. I mean, it would be just not playing fair if Vox's writing happened to be good.

Blogger Nate April 24, 2014 10:23 AM  

So these voter packets... do they include physical copies of the works? or digital?

Sees to me the inclusion of WoT complicates both.

Then again... if they deliver physcial copies... I can't help but note one should be able to sell them on Ebay for a profit.

Anonymous Anonymous April 24, 2014 10:23 AM  

Because so many readers of the warren live in somebody's garage or with mommy and don't have the proverbial pot to piss in, I won't worry about a rabbit rush to buy up supporting memberships just to vex Vox.

$40 buys a lot of ramen.

Blogger slarrow April 24, 2014 10:23 AM  

This is absolutely beautiful. In no other way could the point be made so strongly that awards are not about recognition of achievement or worth anymore but rather about social group dynamics. It's Othering. It's Privileged Perspective. It's the bloody Scarlet Letter branded by people who no doubt look down their noses at those nasty judgmental Puritans without realizing that they themselves are the Puritan's ideological heirs (albeit without the moral position that actually helps a society function.) The lack of self-awareness is just staggering.

Frauds and cowards who advertise their own self-righteousness. Again, could it have been designed any better?

Anonymous Alexander April 24, 2014 10:24 AM  

Heh.

Dh, before the end of this, no doubt Ilk voting will = rape, because trigger warning it's a deliberate intrusion of safespace by priveledged badthink.

Anonymous Salt April 24, 2014 10:25 AM  

Got a return email... Welcome to LonCon3 Salt.

Now to look around the members area.

Anonymous Harold Carper April 24, 2014 10:25 AM  

I wouldn't have aligned Dan Wells with the Axis of Evil, despite his association with Correia. However, painting everyone with the brush of guilt by association tends to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. I don't know about Mr. Wells, but I'd be honored.

Anonymous Randy M April 24, 2014 10:26 AM  

>"As a side-benefit, you'll be able to nominate for next year's awards too."

Won't someone have a new novel eligible for next years awards coming out next winter?

Anonymous Alexander April 24, 2014 10:27 AM  

Something else to keep in mind.

Next year ilk may have a significant (if not total control, given how small a group is required) over the nomination process. In completely unrelated news, how many books will Castalia House have published by then.

Next year's sad puppy slate of nominations could make this one look like hugs and rainbows by comparison. If nothing else, this year's does not include Kratman.

Anonymous Josh April 24, 2014 10:27 AM  

What are the odds they end up canceling the Hugos?

Anonymous rycamor April 24, 2014 10:31 AM  

Markku April 24, 2014 10:17 AM
I don't know if fred2 is a student of the Nate -school of spelling, or a master of puns, but "ad homonym attacks" is pure genius. Because attacking "Vox Day" indeed is one.


Markku, actually the two sets intersect quite deeply. Of course it could just be an autocorrect but as this is Ilk, I will go with 'pure genius'.

Anonymous Huckleberry - est. 1977 April 24, 2014 10:31 AM  

I won't worry about a rabbit rush to buy up supporting memberships just to vex Vox

I'm sure Plan B is for @scalzi to mortgage his lawn (a second time) to buy up some additional memberships.
It's too bad he donated all of that matching 'McRapey' mention money.
Would've come in handy now.

Anonymous dh April 24, 2014 10:32 AM  

I have to say, that these people also have a very short memory. It won't be this year. It won't be next year. But before they know it Blue SF will be huge, and they'll be wondering: "How is this possible, I don't even know any conservatives?!"

Anonymous Steveo April 24, 2014 10:32 AM  

These are the same people that want to take winners & losers away from the kids sporting events... because feelings.

Perhaps it's time to make the Hugo's a participation award so they can all feel nice and enjoy their self generated attention at the dining club where they sit with friends after putting on the "I don't have a coat and I won't wear one" coat...

Anonymous dh April 24, 2014 10:34 AM  

I also have to say, reading JS's blog daily for a long time now, all of his animals are enormously fat. If you make a personal decision to be fat, fine, so be it. But.. really, no reason for a perfectly nice and healthy looking dog to be 50 lbs overweight. He's a dog. He's designed to run. He's designed to be muscular and lean. It's AGAINST SCIENCE TO STUFF A DOG SO FULL ALL IT CAN DO IS SIT AND SLEEP.

Anonymous dh April 24, 2014 10:36 AM  

Yeah, I mean, for Hugo nominations next year, it would not be mathematically hard to deny the major publishers even a nomination.

That's the problem with these people. They never think through their own actions. I am sure that JS really wanted his Hugo award, and so pushing it his 2,500 daily readers seemed like a good idea. So fine, he got his Hugo.

But now it causes him real problems. Was it really worth it?

Anonymous Alexander April 24, 2014 10:36 AM  

The problem there though is that Vox-who-must-not-be-Voiced has already publicly ridiculed Scalzi for his participation Hugo. Now I know they don't mind rewriting history, but openly declaring the award a Participating Hugo would hurt.

Anonymous Jeanne April 24, 2014 10:36 AM  

"So these voter packets... do they include physical copies of the works? or digital?"

Digital. Tor did say they will include all of the WoT books in this year's packet...

Blogger James Dixon April 24, 2014 10:38 AM  

> "Ibk Qnl" (rot13'd so his egoscan won't find this thread so easily) (and yes, he means what that sounds like he means by it)

You've stated several times what the play on words means, and it still goes over their heads. It;s projection, they only know what they would mean by it, and can't conceive of anything else.

> He would not do that for my work, or for any work by a woman or person of color.

Again, projection. They won't, so they can't believe anyone else would.

> I feel under no obligation to read Vox Day's work, under the guise of fairness or anything else, and neither should you.

As you said, Vox. They're making the rules of the game quite obvious to everyone.

> They literally avoid saying the name "Vox Day" for fear that it will draw our attention.

Yep. Vox has become he who must not be named.

Anonymous Jeanne April 24, 2014 10:38 AM  

I read on Sanderson's blog that George R.R. Martin has always wanted to win a HUGO, but won't publicly campaign for one.

I have to imagine that even "Dance with Dragons," easily the worst of the GoT books, is still better than anything Scalzi has ever written, and yet Scalzi has won a HUGO.... 'cause he begs for one...

Anonymous Daniel April 24, 2014 10:38 AM  

These stalwarts wet themselves over Jonathon Ross trying to make them more popular.

They're gonna need a bigger trigger warning.

Anonymous Josh April 24, 2014 10:38 AM  

Dh, do the whatever commenters think you're some kind of lunatic conservative fascist?

Anonymous bob k. mando April 24, 2014 10:41 AM  

dh April 24, 2014 10:34 AM
It's AGAINST SCIENCE TO STUFF A DOG SO FULL ALL IT CAN DO IS SIT AND SLEEP.




I think you're turning Catholicese
I really think so

Blogger Beefy Levinson April 24, 2014 10:41 AM  

My favorite comment from the rabbit threads was in response to an OP that said Vox must be shunned and denied a platform: "Wasn't that the idea behind expelling him from SFWA? How'd that work out for us?"

Blogger Salt April 24, 2014 10:44 AM  

"Wasn't that the idea behind expelling him from SFWA? How'd that work out for us?"

I guess Scalzi would have to say in a roundabout way, "I could be wrong."

Anonymous Maximo Macaroni April 24, 2014 10:47 AM  

Is there something about Fantasy/SF that brings out the rabbit in people? Maybe that's why I haven't read any since I was twelve. I've been thinking I've thrown the baby out with the bathwater and should try some of Vox's. But I'm afraid, very afraid.

Anonymous physics geek April 24, 2014 10:47 AM  

I'm seriously considering joining WorldCon just so I can vote this year. These people nauseate me.

Blogger Brad Andrews April 24, 2014 10:48 AM  

Did anyone find a way to get the $40 US price for the supporting membership and not the British Pound one which ends up a bit more expensive due to exchange rates?

It would be good to have a final posted list (based off their rants would be good) of the "evil" works so we can just put them at the top and "No Award" below them. They have indicated this is a valid voting technique.

Anonymous Toby Temple April 24, 2014 10:49 AM  

The rabbit colony is shaken by something such as this: by Vox Day

So much for not giving Vox any power over them. Bwahahahaha!!!!

Anonymous Josh April 24, 2014 10:52 AM  

Maximo,

SF/F contains a large population of socially retarded nerds and geeks from the bottom of the sociosexual hierarchy.

Hence their inherent insecurity, projection, and propensity for grouping.

Blogger Salt April 24, 2014 10:52 AM  

Brad, we gotta pay the conversion rate. $43.65 as of earlier.

Blogger Brad Andrews April 24, 2014 10:53 AM  

Annoying, but thanks Salt.

Blogger Salt April 24, 2014 10:54 AM  

$43.65 bought a big smile.

Anonymous Jeanne April 24, 2014 10:58 AM  

I paid $43.67 yesterday...then I giggled. My hubby asked me why I was giggling and I said "because the rabbits are getting very frightened!" and giggled again.

I'm still giggling....

Blogger Quintus Maximus April 24, 2014 10:59 AM  

Truthfully I didn't even know what the Hugos really were until about two weeks ago (Not much into these sorts of popularity contests) but I'll be signing up and voting. I'm pretty sure the vast majority of the Rabbitrix has no clue what it has even started.

Blogger James Dixon April 24, 2014 11:00 AM  

> Brad, we gotta pay the conversion rate. $43.65 as of earlier.

That's ridiculous. X-rates says the pound is currently worth 1.679713 USD.

Blogger Salt April 24, 2014 11:01 AM  

First, a bunch of right-wing scumbags campaigned to get some of their right-wing scumbag friends onto various of the shortlists. And they mostly succeeded – of the twelve people on their “ideal ballot”, seven made it onto the shortlists. What they did was perfectly well within the rules, and similar campaigns have taken place in the past – although none have been as successful as this one. Let’s be clear about this, however – this wasn’t because they wanted to see their friends on the shortlists, this was a direct attack on a part of genre fandom. And yes, it’s an attack on the part that exhibits the qualities genre fandom should exhibit – inclusivity instead of misogyny and homophobia, diversity instead of racism and marginalisation, progressiveness instead of regressiveness… you know, the qualities associated with civilised human beings.

Hm, qualities associated with civilized human beings (yes, I spelled civilized correctly). Unleash the Ilk.

Anonymous Jeanne April 24, 2014 11:02 AM  

"Truthfully I didn't even know what the Hugos really were until about two weeks ago (Not much into these sorts of popularity contests)"

Same with me. I mean, I knew what the HUGO was because I have read a lot of sci-fi and fantasy, but I never gave a second thought to who wins one and who doesn't, etc. But once the rabbits started getting noisy in their nests, they attracted my attention....

Anonymous Jeanne April 24, 2014 11:06 AM  

"...the qualities associated with civilised human beings."

Are they calling me uncivilized?! It's because I'm a woman, isn't it? How dare they! Why those misogynist, oppressive cretins!

I feel....unsafe now.

Anonymous H April 24, 2014 11:10 AM  

This whole saga is decadence in a nutshell. Someone needs to become Ozymandias and teleport in a Cthulu monster to show these people how silly their concerns for trigger warnings are in the grand scheme of things.

Anonymous Scintan April 24, 2014 11:10 AM  

Since there is a claim of conspiracy by Vox & Co., and since TOR is clearly trying to stack the deck, I just think it should be noted that getting Mr. Wright and Mr. Correia, along with any other evil bloggers, to help 'massage' the vote by pointing out the membership benefits to their readers would be a very interesting approach. The no award option could get quite a workout in such a case.

Anonymous Alexander April 24, 2014 11:10 AM  

Even knowing about them, who would have given a shit one way or another? Even with Vox on it, it's only after the massive tantrum on their end that made me look into it: if something makes them so angry it has to have some merit.

They have brought this directly onto their own heads because they took something trivial - a bloody book award! - a tried to turn it into something bigger than it was. Well... they succeeded.

Anonymous salty tears of pain April 24, 2014 11:14 AM  

Dave Coulier ☠ ‏@FuckYeasher 22h
It took us 30 years to finally admit that OS Card is a fucking neo nazi and we follow it up with wanting to give vox day a goddamn hugo

Dave Coulier ☠ ‏@FuckYeasher 22h
people want to know why SF literature doesn't really break into the mainstream? It's that. It's that you gave Vox Day a fucking hugo nom


Dave Coulier ☠ ‏@FuckYeasher 22h
Jesus christ they gave Vox Day a fucking hugo nomination.

Anonymous Anonymous April 24, 2014 11:16 AM  

"I see no reason to read his work and judge it on its merits. He would not do that for my work, or for any work by a woman or person of colour."

More projection than a 20-screen cinema, as some clever fellow said in another thread.

Wonder how these people would fit into their world that I read all the short stories on the ballot with no idea who any of the authors were and decided why I like the style of this selkie story enough to enthusiastically vote for it before looking up this 'Sofia Samatar' to see what else by them was out there, and observing that she does, in fact, appear to be both? Oh, wait, is she a Tor person? ... nope, looks like we're good on that front. And the other three in that category I'd rank under 'No Award' anyways without any marching orders from the Hatey McHaters at all. Kinda sad, actually. I quite look forward to nominating a slate that sucks less next year.

Anonymous Toby Temple April 24, 2014 11:18 AM  

Anyone care to make a prediction about the warren if Vox does win the Hugo for Best Novelette?

I'm thinking about a lot of amusing things right now...

Anonymous Alexander April 24, 2014 11:19 AM  

He's right you know. If there's one guy keeping science fiction back from being well known, it's Card.

Anonymous Peter Garstig April 24, 2014 11:19 AM  

Yep. Vox has become he who must not be named.

...a topic in many books. Usually the [stupid, ignorant, dorks, 'village people'] are not naming what should not be named. How apt. Didn't Scalzi himself write a book with such people?

Anonymous Anonymous April 24, 2014 11:19 AM  

> My favorite comment from the rabbit threads was in response to an OP that said Vox must be shunned and denied a platform: "Wasn't that the idea behind expelling him from SFWA? How'd that work out for us?"

Why, thank you. I'd thought I might be losing my touch, not getting even a nibble off that one. Definitely have to concede that 'SuperPink' absolutely walked away with that thread, though.

Anonymous Will Best April 24, 2014 11:20 AM  

How is this possible, I don't even know any conservatives?!

most of the time they are just oblivious to people around them. People are always surprised to find out I am in no way shape or form on their side, and it shocks them. To which I respond, don't you bother looking at the data? I am white, male, over 30, married, with kids, and attend church. Why would you ever assume my I idea of a good time is to kill a few babies and turn the country I was born and raised in into a 3rd world shithole run by an authoritarian oligarchy.

Anonymous rycamor April 24, 2014 11:24 AM  

Alexander April 24, 2014 11:10 AM
Even knowing about them, who would have given a shit one way or another? Even with Vox on it, it's only after the massive tantrum on their end that made me look into it: if something makes them so angry it has to have some merit.

They have brought this directly onto their own heads because they took something trivial - a bloody book award! - a tried to turn it into something bigger than it was. Well... they succeeded.


Yep, the true irony here. Their whole campaign is the most perfect example of a backfire that I've ever seen. The ineptness is astounding. It's almost as if "everything is falling into place..."

Anonymous bob k. mando April 24, 2014 11:24 AM  

Salt April 24, 2014 11:01 AM
First, a bunch of right-wing scumbags



you missed the best pull quote, Salt.

"the same old names appear, demonstrating little or no progression in the tastes of the bulk of the Hugo electorate. "


what are our tastes supposed to 'progressing' FROM? where are they supposed to be 'progressing' TO?

i was stupid enough to think it was just supposed to be about SF that was ... you know ... good.

so, if my tastes start to progress away from good SF ....

Anonymous Scintan April 24, 2014 11:30 AM  

Just to emphasize, I'm suggesting that the evil bloggers not be confined to SF writers. Since any conservative is evil, there is no need to limit the pool of evil to those with a horse in this race.

Anonymous Toby Temple April 24, 2014 11:32 AM  

"the same old names appear, demonstrating little or no progression in the tastes of the bulk of the Hugo electorate. "

It's better to blame the judges, than to accept the fact that their writing skills never improved.

Anonymous Anonymous April 24, 2014 11:33 AM  

Dh, do the whatever commenters think you're some kind of lunatic conservative fascist?

If Card is anathema because he strayed from the liberal plantation on the single brand-new issue of homogamy, I can't imagine they'd have much use for DH or anyone else who posts here for reasons other than trolling.

Anonymous Jeanne April 24, 2014 11:34 AM  

For those interested, here is how they count the ballots and how the "No Award" option works. You can start at the "How to Vote in the Final Ballot" section:

http://www.thehugoawards.org/the-voting-system/

Anonymous Oltec April 24, 2014 11:36 AM  

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/100675-hugo-nominees-for-2014-shortlist-post-156-on-page-8/page-7

Blogger Leatherwing April 24, 2014 11:37 AM  

I was reading through the linked-to blog post and saw this interesting rule brought up
* That voting behavior may result in a situation where a number of the down-ballot races fall afoul of Section 3.11.2 of the WSFS Constitution, which says that no award will be given in a particular category if the total number of valid ballots cast in that category is less than 25% of the total number of final award ballots received.

It would be comical if a lot of new voters just voted for the sad puppy slate and not for any other works, thus relegating ALL nominees in the down ballot categories to loser status. The fear they were expressing was regarding the new, first-time Wheel of Time voters. If the sad puppy brigade joined that contingent, it might spell disaster for this years ballot.
The only downside is that rabbit tears become less valuable because there will be a huge surplus this year.

Anonymous Harsh April 24, 2014 11:38 AM  

@daphnis

It's because you're a talentless hack, not because everyone is missing the DEEP PHILOSOPHICAL THEMES.

I wasn't sure if I wanted to buy a membership and vote the Hugos but you tipped the scales for me. Congratulations, you fat fuck.

Anonymous Anonymous April 24, 2014 11:44 AM  

Is there something about Fantasy/SF that brings out the rabbit in people?

I've wondered about that too. Obviously, looking at the Ilk, being a SF/F fan doesn't prove you're a gamma or make you one. But I do think that gammas find the make-believe worlds of SF/F a comforting escape from painful reality, so it may appeal to them in a special way.

A writer can use SF/F settings to artfully reflect and comment on reality, or he can use them to deny reality and try to construct realities of his own (90-pound pixie warrioresses). There's plenty of both out there to attract both kinds of readers. And some writers are skilled enough (or not) to make their works enjoyable reading (or not) despite their denials of reality, at least up to a point.

Anonymous Anonymous April 24, 2014 11:45 AM  

A year or so ago i subjected myself to an award "winner" by Jo Walton. Writing was acceptable but what a waste of time. No, no, no - the book does not get better the more you read, EVER.

Due to the fact that I now know i was subjected to this due to previous rabbit popularity contesting I have no qualms about voting the non-rabbit favored slate this year and No Award below on all else.

Nuke it, just to be sure. No doubt that the wabbits in the warren are experiencing many and multiple Pvt Hudson moments....

Christian R

Blogger Ron April 24, 2014 11:48 AM  

@AmyJ

Do they even read what they write? Ever?

Does anyone?

Anonymous Huckleberry - est. 1977 April 24, 2014 11:49 AM  

Anyone care to make a prediction about the warren if Vox does win the Hugo for Best Novelette?

I'm betting they're all going to be shocked when No Award takes top 1 or 2 now that both sides are unleashing that particular dog of war.

Anonymous Scintan April 24, 2014 11:54 AM  

Anyone care to make a prediction about the warren if Vox does win the Hugo for Best Novelette?

Expect rule changes regarding voting.

Anonymous Alexander April 24, 2014 11:56 AM  

If they change the rules, can I sue? Or failing that, get my sob story of how I was conned by the con published in the Guardian?

Anonymous Randy M April 24, 2014 12:01 PM  

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/100675-hugo-nominees-for-2014-shortlist-post-156-on-page-8/page-8#entry5671094

Never seen an avatar better match a posting before.

Blogger Markku April 24, 2014 12:06 PM  

Heh, that avatar is a screenshot from King of Dragon Pass. An absolutely amazing game. The PC version is the crown jewel of my video game collection, but the iOS version you can purchase even right now.

Anyone interested in super hard core role-playing games and who have an iOS device should go buy it.

Anonymous GreyS April 24, 2014 12:06 PM  

This ongoing bratty-child-with-power act is very, very stupid. Sooner or later their bosses at Tor will realize the NH's are damaging the brand. Professionals just don't act this way. Behind the scenes machinations, subtle arm-twisting, indirect payoffs-- all SOP in publishing. But this sort of ranty public bratty vindictiveness just might prove to be too much for their bosses.

If even a few of the Tor works get this payback "No Award", it could very well be the NHs undoing.

It's clear from the reaction to a few simple nominations that the SF community sees the Hugo's as very valuable. Now, take it from their bosses perspective-- You use those awards to promote your books and after the voting had x # of works get ranked behind "No Award"-- all because a couple out of control employees went on a personal vendetta against one simple and otherwise quiet novelette nomination and it backfired. Would you retain those employees?

Anonymous Randy M April 24, 2014 12:09 PM  

Decent iOS rpg? I'll check it out, thanks.

Anonymous Alpha Ralpha Boulevardier April 24, 2014 12:10 PM  

$40, eh? Hmm. Let me think about it.

You know, I may just have to go out and find a copy of The Night Land and read it. First of all, because I regard the SF of 100 years ago to be underappreciated - Edgar Rice Burroughs got to be a bit of a hack, but he did have imagination and the ability to follow an idea where it led. Second of all, in order to fully appreciate Awake in the Night Land. Considering that I've spent the last 15 or so years sighing as I toss the latest copy of Analog into the bin, and trolling bookfinder.com for the Groff Conklin anthologies, digging for berzerker novels I may not have read, and rooting through boxes in the garage to find old stuff from the SF book club circa 1980-something, well, it's saying something or other.

See, I've known since the 90's that there was and is a problem in terms of quality of thinking in science fiction, and at first I blamed the fantasy readers who are far too prone to buy deux ex machina works, then for a while I kind of blamed Stan Schmidt, but he's just one player. What with work, and other aspects of life, I just stepped away from newer SF - it was a surprise 4 years ago when I discovered that Jack Chalker had died, for example.

Really, I stopped reading newer SF because I don't like bad science, I don't like bad fiction, and I don't like being talked down to. One or all of the above applies to a whole lot of fiction, and even though Ted Sturgeon's Law holds, I'd like to see the 10% show up once in a while.

Sorry for the meandering. I thought I was the only one who had noticed that SF had fallen, and it couldn't seem to get back up.

$40, eh? That's a ding on my book budget, but the entertainment value seems potentially high...

Blogger Markku April 24, 2014 12:10 PM  

Please note: When I say hard-core, I mean only just short of Dwarf Fortress -kind of hard-core.

Anonymous VD April 24, 2014 12:15 PM  

I actually have both of the wargames upon which King of Dragon Pass was based. White Bear and Red Moon and Dragon Pass.

Anonymous patrick kelly April 24, 2014 12:17 PM  

" the idea that people on the Right are picked on"

They think these authors are butt hurt and motivated about being picked on? hahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahahah......


did I say hahaha enough?

Anonymous Anonymous April 24, 2014 12:18 PM  

> I'm betting they're all going to be shocked when No Award takes top 1 or 2

Can't really see that there's enough anti-rabbits engaged enough to take this fundamentally pointless hissy fit $40 worth of serious for that to actually happen.

Sure would be a hoot and a holler if it turns out there is, though...

Anonymous Anonymous April 24, 2014 12:20 PM  

> You know, I may just have to go out and find a copy of The Night Land and read it.

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/10662

Blogger tz April 24, 2014 12:23 PM  

Vex They.

It is not so much the novella, as to take a stand against the verbal compost heap (big pile of...) the Wheel of Time.

Gamma Rabbit was purple, but a pinkshirt.

The reason warrens require SF/F is the exact opposite the people here do. They don't want to think so need fairy tale lands where the Flying Spaghetti Monster zaps the Meanies (becoming what Stalin called, a statistic) where we want our thoughts provoked, ideas challenged, views analyzed, we want to think outside what we can see of reality to ascend to the rookeries of great, soaring birds and bring something new and good into the world, instead of into a hole in the ground where they hide from it.

Anonymous SirHamster April 24, 2014 12:30 PM  

>> You know, I may just have to go out and find a copy of The Night Land and read it.

> http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/10662

Also free for Amazon Kindle, if you so desire.

http://www.amazon.com/Night-Land-William-Hope-Hodgson-ebook/dp/B0084C981I/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&sr=&qid=

Anonymous SirHamster April 24, 2014 12:31 PM  

Sorry, I should have used a link.

The Night Land

Blogger RobertT April 24, 2014 12:44 PM  

It will be terrific if you win this showdown. I've been there before and while it ain't fun, who really cares what a bunch of losers do? As I've mentioned before, everyone who pulled this kind of sh*t on me ended up living in a ditch. Call it karma, call it just deserts, but what comes around goes around.

Anonymous Anonymous April 24, 2014 12:45 PM  

Professionals just don't act this way.

Good point. If this were just fans acting this way, it'd be no big deal. But for authors and editors, whose names go on products, to act this way, complete with swear words....they have no class, no professionalism at all. But your average classless person at least tries to hide it and show some class in public. Not these jokers. They're so invested in their who/whom way of thinking that they think as long as they're on the right side of that divide, it doesn't matter how they act.

Well, it does matter. I've enjoyed plenty of entertainment that was made by leftists, and I'm sure I'll continue to do so -- it's pretty much impossible not to these days, unless you swear off everything but a few authors plus Mel Gibson movies and Ted Nugent songs. But I sure as hell won't be patronizing any of these classless fools. They've drawn a line and said they won't cross it? Fine, neither will I.

By the way, the movie Ender's Game made $125M, a small profit over its estimated budget of $115M, despite the boycotts. And Card got paid a lump sum rather than a percentage, precisely so that people opposed to his views could watch the movie without worrying that they were giving him money. So the boycotts only hurt the others involved in the movie, who are surely overwhelmingly pro-homo. Keep up the good work, guys.

Blogger RobertT April 24, 2014 12:45 PM  

Or you can call it casting your bread upon the waters ...

Anonymous Alexander April 24, 2014 12:46 PM  

It's interesting how much these people hate having 'their' institutions threatened with infiltration and conversion to the enemy's camp. There's probably a bigger lesson there, but I won't spell it out for those who would call it privileged to do so.

Blogger Markku April 24, 2014 12:50 PM  

It looks like there is a need for some kind of a little "not-rabbit" sign to carry. Something blue, obviously. So that traditionalist-minded people will be able to recognize each other in London, and hang out. Treat the whole thing as kind of a traditionalist get-together. Enjoy the petting-zoo with friends.

Anonymous Scintan April 24, 2014 12:51 PM  

They're so invested in their who/whom way of thinking that they think as long as they're on the right side of that divide, it doesn't matter how they act.

This is the blind spot. How they miss that this is precisely the M.O. of the most evil and murderous rulers of the last century (Mao, Stalin, Hitler, etc...) is a question that their friends need to ask them, for their own good.

Anonymous WaterBoy April 24, 2014 12:54 PM  

#175 ::: Xopher Halftongue ::: April 24, 2014, 02:47 AM:

As for Vox Day, I propose that the gang of idiots who do the bidding of that racist, sexist, homophobic dipshit be henceforth called "snotlings" (I got this from a card/board game I played years ago). They're not even up to the level of trolls. They're just little runny noses with legs, and they can be annoying to clean up after, but not seriously damaging, because they're so pathetic."


Obviously, poor little Xopher didn't get the message: WE ARE ALL RACIST, SEXIST, HOMOPHOBIC, ETC now.

In view of that, I propose that their gang of idiots -- Sexist, Homophobic, Assholier-than-thou, Racist Tor-lings be henceforth called "shartlings". They're not even up to the level of snotlings. They're just smelly little shitstains in the underwear of SFF, and they're very difficult to clean up after because everything they touch (SFWA, Nebula, Hugo, etc) becomes permanently soiled. Any organization into which they leak is best thrown out into the trashbin of history.

Oops. I just Xophered my pants a little.

Blogger Leatherwing April 24, 2014 1:00 PM  

Hey Markku, is this not rabbit enough for you?

Blogger IM2L844 April 24, 2014 1:03 PM  

It shouldn't surprise me, but I went over to peruse the comments and was a little taken aback to discover it was little more than a henfest with the occasional token teaboy chiming concordance. Where are all the men?

Blogger James Dixon April 24, 2014 1:05 PM  

> The PC version is the crown jewel of my video game collection

Meredith loves it too. Remind me never to introduce the two of you. :)

> I've enjoyed plenty of entertainment that was made by leftists, and I'm sure I'll continue to do so -- it's pretty much impossible not to these days, unless you swear off everything but a few authors plus Mel Gibson movies and Ted Nugent songs.

The goal isn't to not enjoy their work, it's to make sure they don't profit from your enjoying it.

> It looks like there is a need for some kind of a little "not-rabbit" sign to carry.

A simple royal blue shirt with SF in big white letters should suffice.

Anonymous the bandit April 24, 2014 1:06 PM  

Enjoy the petting-zoo with friends.

*~* TRIGGER WARNING *~*

Blogger Markku April 24, 2014 1:08 PM  

A simple royal blue shirt with SF in big white letters should suffice.

Too expensive to get many enough people along with it. It needs to be something simple and cheap.

Anonymous Jack Amok April 24, 2014 1:13 PM  

It looks like there is a need for some kind of a little "not-rabbit" sign to carry. Something blue, obviously.

One of those ribbon pin things. Dark blue. If any rabbits asks what it stands for, you can say you're protesting the rape culture in SF/F.

Anonymous G April 24, 2014 1:15 PM  

Kayleigh Anne ‏@Ceilidhann 33m
New comment defending Vox Day: "Imagine if the world was as close-minded as Celidhann. Imagine a world without greatness." #gofuckyourself

Blogger Marissa April 24, 2014 1:16 PM  

Josh: What are the odds they end up canceling the Hugos?

I'd wager on a rule change at least.

dh: It's AGAINST SCIENCE TO STUFF A DOG SO FULL ALL IT CAN DO IS SIT AND SLEEP.

It's plain cruel too. It's like people with really obese children too. Pets and children just don't understand that they have to eat healthfully and exercise and it is difficult for the person in charge to say no. But you have to do it. It's like some people don't understand or are scared of the fact that they are the judge, the authority in certain matters in their lives.

Blogger Joshua_D April 24, 2014 1:18 PM  

rycamor April 24, 2014 11:24 AM

Alexander April 24, 2014 11:10 AM
Even knowing about them, who would have given a shit one way or another? Even with Vox on it, it's only after the massive tantrum on their end that made me look into it: if something makes them so angry it has to have some merit.

They have brought this directly onto their own heads because they took something trivial - a bloody book award! - a tried to turn it into something bigger than it was. Well... they succeeded.


Yep, the true irony here. Their whole campaign is the most perfect example of a backfire that I've ever seen. The ineptness is astounding. It's almost as if "everything is falling into place..."


I don't know about that. Google #myNYPD. But this one is pretty good, and very entertaining.

Blogger CarpeOro April 24, 2014 1:39 PM  

Tempest, meet teacup.

Regarding waning organizations, Alan Cole and Chris Bunch wrote a decent series together starting with "Sten". In the third book if I recall, the Imperial government had placed agents into some anti-government group that was basically broke. The agents were just about the only dues paying members and were keeping it afloat. The moral? Why bother to join an organization you don't care about and in the process keep it around longer by helping finance it?

Anonymous Scintan April 24, 2014 1:44 PM  

The moral? Why bother to join an organization you don't care about and in the process keep it around longer by helping finance it?

To make an example of it.

Anonymous Feh April 24, 2014 2:01 PM  

"Anyone care to make a prediction about the warren if Vox does win the Hugo for Best Novelette?"

What they will do is say that only people who actually attend the con can vote. No more online voting.

Blogger Markku April 24, 2014 2:02 PM  

To make an example of it.

That would be the original reason that got the ball rolling. That got the TRULY pissed off to do it.

But now, our people are flowing in. Now it's both a vehicle for activism, and an opportunity to meet people who think like us, and are passionate about the subject. That's TWO reasons to join. It lowers the bar. It causes a positive feedback loop.

That's why one must not overreach. One must not provide a reason to the other side for the initial kick-off. Because a kick-off turns into an avalanche all on its own.

Anonymous VD April 24, 2014 2:10 PM  

What they will do is say that only people who actually attend the con can vote. No more online voting.

I expect that will happen. Most likely the year after next.

Blogger Markku April 24, 2014 2:13 PM  

From Harlan's:

-------

Doug Wardell

Hi Harlan,

I only found out about this place yesterday from Vox's blog, but since you've asked for posts from lurkers, here I am.

To my knowledge, I was the first person to suggest adding Opera Vita Aeterna when Larry Correia asked for suggestions. I made the suggestion and subsequent nomination because I think the piece deserves it. (...) I've been following Vox's blog for about 9 months at this point

--------

A newbie commenter did this to sci-fi "fandom" and the Hugos? I'd say this means fast-tracking to Ilk status.

Anonymous Josh April 24, 2014 2:16 PM  

I second that, Markku.

Well done, Doug.

Anonymous Doug Wardell April 24, 2014 2:21 PM  

Thanks guys! :) To be fair though, I've since read on Larry's blog that he had already read the piece and apparently decided to nominate it independently of suggestions in that thread. I should also add that the suggestion was quickly seconded and thirded. That being said, I'm still enormously satisfied about the reactions I've been reading online.

Blogger Midknight April 24, 2014 2:23 PM  

Is it just me or are these people doing everything in their power to prove Larry and Vox's point?

I'm also sure that the person who claimed that Vox, Larry, etc., would never deign to read and / or promote stuff by these other "approved" authors would not be swayed by the facts he's apparently ignorant of.

lastly - I already am noting fallout. People accusing Brandon Sanderson of being a hater/etc... which given he co-hosts a show with MRK is going to lead to some interesting discussions somewhere. She's definitely on one side of this - and is no fan of the old "sexist" guard, having listed Pournelle and others of the greats as people she's actively not a fan of. (I've also gotten the impression that people like Larry and the unapproved old fogeys are getting less and less mention-time on the show, certainly several topics have featured examples from books I'd never heard of when a classic that had been out for decades was overlooked...)

Anonymous alexander April 24, 2014 2:24 PM  

That though will swing the vote against those who cant afford to go. Travel is white priveledge. New voting system will be raciss

Anonymous kh123 April 24, 2014 2:31 PM  

"$43.65 bought a big smile."

Soon to be said about JS in Nevada, me thinks.

Anonymous WaterBoy April 24, 2014 2:31 PM  

MidKnight: "Is it just me or are these people doing everything in their power to prove Larry and Vox's point?"

It's not just you. This is not the first time somebody has said, "Watch the rabbits dance when I play this music"...and verily, the rabbits did dance.

That Scalzi is now having to dance between the two sides is even funnier.

Byzantine levels of cruelty in this one.

Anonymous Don April 24, 2014 2:32 PM  

Spokane is far too close to 'the ilk' or heck just normal people. Wait until it is some place far from where 'Joe Sixpack' can get to.

Anonymous kh123 April 24, 2014 2:33 PM  

...Actually, I stand corrected:

"$40, eh? Hmm. Let me think about it. "

Anonymous Scintan April 24, 2014 2:38 PM  

That would be the original reason that got the ball rolling. That got the TRULY pissed off to do it.

But now, our people are flowing in. Now it's both a vehicle for activism, and an opportunity to meet people who think like us, and are passionate about the subject. That's TWO reasons to join. It lowers the bar. It causes a positive feedback loop.

That's why one must not overreach. One must not provide a reason to the other side for the initial kick-off. Because a kick-off turns into an avalanche all on its own.


But I'm not pissed off, Markku, and I've never been pissed off about this situation. I'm amused. I'm amused at both sides of the equation, though I'm posting mostly about the intolerance of those who demand tolerance. I expect my take is the same as that of a whole lot of others, as well.

Destroy the Hugo as a meaningful item (not that it's held in particularly high esteem now), force an overhaul in the voting process for a trophy handed out by a bunch of self-congratulatory losers who are afraid to deal with opposing ideas and theories, expose the arrogance, evil and stupidity of the tolerance baiters, set off a verbal civil war among those same baiters, and embarrass a publishing house all at the same time?

That's not about anger. Vox had the chance to ride the anger wave after he got booted from SFWA, but he missed out on that one. This though... This is just having fun. This is the semi-anarchistic joy that man gets watching the ivory towers fall.

Anonymous Alexander April 24, 2014 2:47 PM  

I think that's Markku's point: it *started* by just attracting the pissed off people. Then the other side through such a bitchfit it lowered the bar to simple *amusement*.

Anonymous Jack Amok April 24, 2014 2:51 PM  

This is just having fun. This is the semi-anarchistic joy that man gets watching the ivory towers fall.

Markku mentioned "overreach." It's one thing to revel in laying waste to the enemy's homeland, but when the enemy has infiltrated your own... you might want to leave a few buildings standing. We talk about ivory towers as if the towers themselves are evil. Some may well be, but mostly it's the people in them that are the problem.

Anonymous Scintan April 24, 2014 2:52 PM  

I think that's Markku's point: it *started* by just attracting the pissed off people. Then the other side through such a bitchfit it lowered the bar to simple *amusement*.

I'm saying that anger is being overrated as the reason in the first place. Anger is more valid with regards to the Mozilla situation, IMO. With the SFWA, on the other hand, any anger had already died down without having been utilized. This is really more of a continuation of the joy of making Scalzi look the fool than it is a 1:1 response to anything anger producing by the tolerance and diversity crew in the SFWA.

Anonymous Jack Amok April 24, 2014 2:53 PM  

And speaking as someone who comes from pirate stock, you don't burn every ship you take. If she sails well and you have enough crew to man her, you become an Admiral (or at least a Commodore).

Anonymous Alexander April 24, 2014 2:58 PM  

Do you get a really big hat?

Anonymous Scintan April 24, 2014 2:58 PM  

Markku mentioned "overreach." It's one thing to revel in laying waste to the enemy's homeland, but when the enemy has infiltrated your own... you might want to leave a few buildings standing. We talk about ivory towers as if the towers themselves are evil. Some may well be, but mostly it's the people in them that are the problem.

This isn't Mozilla, which is still in relatively good shape, but needs a good fumigation. Given the responses of the SFWA members in both situations, it seems a safe bet to say that the whole, already crumbling, tower is infested with cockroaches and termites.

Burn it down. Rebuild elsewhere, if you think it's worth the effort. If not, scorch the earth and leave warnings for those who would repeat the wrongs of the tolerance crowd. Use the enemies tactics against the enemy, for a change.

Anonymous VD April 24, 2014 2:59 PM  

This is just having fun. This is the semi-anarchistic joy that man gets watching the ivory towers fall.

I can't remember who it was that said that she wasn't sure if my alignment was Good or Evil, but either way, it was definitely Chaotic. But I do remember thinking: "yeah, fair enough."

Anonymous Alexander April 24, 2014 3:02 PM  

Any Ilk actually considering attending:

Remember it's a con in England, it's pretty much the world's greatest nanny-convention. Know the 'harassment' policy and expect to have the rabbits use it against you as a weapon if they can identify you as a feelhurter. The link on Loncon is chock full of 'feelings' and 'safespace'; your mere presence may be enough to force you to leave if you're not expecting it.

Anonymous rycamor April 24, 2014 3:09 PM  

IM2L844 April 24, 2014 1:03 PM
It shouldn't surprise me, but I went over to peruse the comments and was a little taken aback to discover it was little more than a henfest with the occasional token teaboy chiming concordance. Where are all the men?


Well I think the question kind of answers itself. How many men really want to be in that sort of group?

In addition, though, I think it is one sign of our times: the men are generally too busy working to support our increasingly teetering economy (which keeps on laying heavier burdens on their backs), to have time to dabble in writing. I bet the gender ratio for this generation of scifi/fantasy writers leans at least 4:1 women.

Anonymous Michael Maier April 24, 2014 3:17 PM  

Vox, you really think you're a-methodical enough to qualify as "chaotic"?

Blogger Tommy Hass April 24, 2014 3:22 PM  

I know I'm repeating my self but how can these people not realizue how degenerate and petty they come acrooss?

Anonymous bob k. mando April 24, 2014 3:28 PM  

Markku April 24, 2014 12:50 PM
It looks like there is a need for some kind of a little "not-rabbit" sign to carry. Something blue, obviously.



i would suggest a blue flaming sword logo ... but a sword would suggest to them a death more quick and clean than they deserve.

maybe a blue flaming spoon?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhfuuKiTcYQ

if anyone asks ... you can just say you're a fan of The Tick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcm-J7lQT3w

Blogger Nate April 24, 2014 3:35 PM  

"I'm saying that anger is being overrated as the reason in the first place. Anger is more valid with regards to the Mozilla situation, IMO."

I don't think "anger" is the right word... nor do I think it is amusement... though it is certainly entertaining. There are certain people that just really enjoy a good excuse to say "fuck you."

And well... this provides a fantastic release for that.

Blogger Tommy Hass April 24, 2014 3:36 PM  

" Nate April 24, 2014 9:57 AM
"Ibk Qnl"

scalzi once claimed to be the Voldemort of Blue Sci Fi... but it was bullshit. This is the real thing. They literally avoid saying the name "Vox Day" for fear that it will draw our attention.

I am amused."

You're actually 100% right. This way true even back when they merely called him RSHD.

Blogger wrf3 April 24, 2014 3:47 PM  

bob k. mando wrote: i would suggest a blue flaming sword logo ...

Bless your heart. Every one knows it should be a blue flaming umbrella. And a nice drink in the other hand to go along with it.

Anonymous bob k. mando April 24, 2014 3:52 PM  

don't forget the socce ... uh, futbol shoes.

Blogger RobertT April 24, 2014 3:53 PM  

Wow. Stross is quite a weenie, isn't he? And to think you once promoted one of his books on this blog.

Anonymous Supernaut April 24, 2014 3:55 PM  

You think any of the rabbits would comprehend what is happening here if someone were to reference them to VD's blog post about black knighting over at AG?

Let me give you an example. I can't provide any details, due to the organization's rules, but I can paint a general picture. There was a discussion of a proposed system that was, due to its nature, intrinsically unfair. Simply by expressing an intention to utilize the system to its fullest, which intention thereby illustrated its fundamental absurdity, was enough to convince at least some of the people involved that the whole concept was best abandoned.

Darth Vox, indeed. Muahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahalozlzolol

Anonymous MPC April 24, 2014 4:01 PM  

Klaatu Barada Nikto ‏@OrdQuelu Apr 22
@voxday your following consists entirely of ignorant, pathetic, hateful people like yourself, contributing exactly nothing to society.


Hey! I'm not pathetic OR ignorant.

Seriously though, this is some classic hardcore projecting by a shit-lib. This whole Hugo award thing has been a goldmine for showing that liberals really are full of hatred and bile.

Anonymous Alexander April 24, 2014 4:06 PM  

If they want to expand the conversation to 'contributing to society', then I'm more than willing to do so...

Anonymous Anonymous April 24, 2014 4:07 PM  

On the plus side for Sad Puppies 2:Election Bunny-Fu next year. Not only is Sasquan not on the same weekend as Dragoncon removing the usual schedule conflicts for actual authors, but any attempt to change the rules will have to pass 2 years running before it takes affect, so if they start the process this year, enough attending members can block it next year.

Anonymous bob k. mando April 24, 2014 4:09 PM  

alternatively, the natural enemy of the rabbit is the weasel / ferret family.

http://www.usafpatches.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=324

added bonus, the typical slogan of a weasel squadron is "You gotta be shitting me" ( that's what the YGBSM acronym is for ).

which is the typical response of someone of the right who has just been blessed with a rabbit pellet of wisdom.

Blogger Markku April 24, 2014 4:15 PM  

In case someone didn't understand, I mean the progressive, post-modernist fandom did the overreach. They could have maintained control of the group, had they not pissed the opponents off enough for the first ones to organize. The cost of membership was just high enough that if you didn't piss your opponents off enough, then they won't pay it just to be a part of a group that's generally hostile to them. Because why would they?

But if you DO get the ball rolling and the initial wave of opponents motivated enough to pay the price, then the hangers-on will follow. And there's your feedback loop. Now the same price will not buy merely the joy of activism, like it did to the first ones, but also the joy of companionship with many others who think like you. Cost stays the same, benefits increase.

Never piss off the first ones that much, if you can avoid it. It will feel good for a little while, but you'll regret it later.

Blogger Dark Herald April 24, 2014 4:20 PM  

Larry Correia has weighed in again in pretty serious way at Monster Hunter Nation..

The libel and slander over the last few days have been so ridiculous that my wife was contacted by people she hasn’t talked to for years, concerned that she was married to such a horrible, awful, hateful, bad person, and that they were worried for her safety

Anonymous Doug Wardell April 24, 2014 4:26 PM  

errhead April 24, 2014 4:07 PM

On the plus side for Sad Puppies 2:Election Bunny-Fu next year.


This year was Sad Puppies 2: Rainbow Puppy Lighthouse -- the Huggening. Next year, maybe Sad Puppies 3: Puppies in Trees -- Return of the Rainbows?



Markku April 24, 2014 4:15 PM

But if you DO get the ball rolling and the initial wave of opponents motivated enough to pay the price, then the hangers-on will follow. And there's your feedback loop. Now the same price will not buy merely the joy of activism, like it did to the first ones, but also the joy of companionship with many others who think like you. Cost stays the same, benefits increase.


Excellent points but don't forget that in the specific case of the Hugos, when it's just a few people we get a bunch of pink-SF we probably don't want, but when we are part of the larger group who manages to get things nominated, we get things like Warbound.

Anonymous Amok Time April 24, 2014 4:26 PM  

I am writing a novel about a Galactic rabbit-hunter for next years Hugo. Working title will be "No Award".

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 April 24, 2014 4:49 PM  

You know, I couldn't care less about the Hugo awards. I don't care about most scifi or fantasy books.

But their response to VD makes me care a little more than I should.

Anonymous Johnny Caustic April 24, 2014 5:02 PM  

Just posting here in hope of being an honorary snotling.

Speaking of which, there's something about the word "dipshit" that just screams that the speaker is a gamma male (unless spoken with a deep-throated working-class Southern accent to give it some gravitas). Snotling, on the other hand, has kind of a nice ring to it.

Anonymous Sensei April 24, 2014 5:09 PM  

Thanks for the link, CS.

"He thinks I’m nuts on several topics, but the dude is smart, and he can write. As for the people saying he “bought” the awards… Holy moly, you’ve got no idea what his day job is. If the man wanted to simply buy votes, he’d be up for everything from Best Novel to Motor Trend Car of the Year."

This comment was rather intriguing... Our esteemed host has dropped hints from time to time but it's different to hear it coming from Larry.

Blogger IM2L844 April 24, 2014 5:29 PM  

Next year, maybe Sad Puppies 3: Puppies in Trees -- Return of the Rainbows?

'em barking up the wrong tree?

Blogger Subversive Saint April 24, 2014 5:33 PM  

Running out of popcorn.

Anonymous Red Comet April 24, 2014 5:38 PM  

As some said earlier, I'm still having a laugh at how Vox has literally become He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named, like a character in a novel except in real life.

Saw blogs where they're scared to even mention Vox's name, saw one where they were using donotlink.com to deny the traffic of what must surely be their own massive following, and then there's the guy writing Vox's name in code ("Ibk Qnl"...I think I read that Philip K. Dick novel).

It's all very strange, petty, and childish. On the other hand, between the fetuses being used as fuel in US and British hospitals like a Mayan child sacrifice and Vox being unnamed as if to prevent the curse of the Evil Eye, perhaps it's just more evidence that Vox was right about the move back to Paganism.

Anonymous Androsynth April 24, 2014 6:01 PM  

I know I'm repeating my self but how can these people not realizue how degenerate and petty they come acrooss?

Isolation within an ideological echo chamber is the psychological equivalent of inbreeding.

Anonymous Anonymous April 24, 2014 6:18 PM  

how can these people not realize how degenerate and petty they come across?

"Leftism makes you stupid." It explains so many things.

Blogger James Dixon April 24, 2014 6:27 PM  

> This is just having fun. This is the semi-anarchistic joy that man gets watching the ivory towers fall.

Larry has thrown his golden apple, and the results are as expected.

Anonymous wEz April 24, 2014 6:40 PM  

These people are trash. The far-left is a very hateful lot. They really lack peace and joy. Theyre never satisfied nor content in anything-simply vile and pathetic to the core. Sad but expected.

Anonymous Peter April 24, 2014 6:49 PM  

After months of lurking, I had hoped my first comment would be an actual, you know, contribution, but I have a request:

1) Can anyone provide a list (or at least a couple of names) of Pink authors? I'm particularly interested in the more egregious ones.
2) Exemplars: what story(ies) would you say are prime examples of Pinkishness? Again, particularly egregious ones would be appreciated.

I grew up during the "New Age/Wave" period, and still remember getting back from the library (uphill and in the snow both ways, you kids!) and being p!ssed that I had expended the time and energy to haul crap back home. Obviously, it's gotten worse since I arrived at a point where I could afford reading time once again.

Anonymous wEz April 24, 2014 6:49 PM  

Lets give "RSHD" a duel meaning, any thoughts fellow snotlings?

Anonymous Harsh April 24, 2014 6:54 PM  

You know, I couldn't care less about the Hugo awards. I don't care about most scifi or fantasy books.

But their response to VD makes me care a little more than I should.


Which is the great irony of the whole matter. The rabbits could have gone on for years giving each other meaningless awards, patting each other on the back, and thumbing their nose at the rest of the world and we probably would have been none the wiser. But they had to go pick a fight and pick it with the wrong people.

Anonymous VD April 24, 2014 7:02 PM  

After months of lurking, I had hoped my first comment would be an actual, you know, contribution, but I have a request:

Hold your thoughts, people. This merits its own post tomorrow.

Blogger Leatherwing April 24, 2014 8:32 PM  

RSHD Recursive Sentient Horde of Daemons

Anonymous Jack Amok April 24, 2014 8:49 PM  

"Leftism makes you stupid." It explains so many things.

Chicken or egg, chicken or egg? I suppose it doesn't matter, one begets the other.

Anonymous Anonymous April 24, 2014 8:51 PM  

I see that one of my Tor.com posts is quoted in this post. It seems that my post is being lumped in with the posts of people who are declaring that they will vote against certain works because of the political views of their authors. This is not my stance at all.

My post states that I will be voting "No Award" ahead of THE WHEEL OF TIME in the Best Novel category. I know nothing of what Robert Jordan's politics were or what Brandon Sanderson's politics are. I simply think it is ridiculous that a 14-book series published over the span of 23 years is being allowed to compete for a Hugo for best novel of the YEAR. I do not see it as a legitimate nominee.

This will be my 41st consecutive year of Hugo voting and, as always, I will judge the works, not the authors.

Anonymous CorkyAgain April 24, 2014 8:51 PM  

I've enjoyed plenty of entertainment that was made by leftists, and I'm sure I'll continue to do so -- it's pretty much impossible not to these days, unless you swear off everything but a few authors plus Mel Gibson movies and Ted Nugent songs.

Kauft nicht bei Linken!

(I know, I know, but it's what you get when we play by the same rules they are using.)

Anonymous CorkyAgain April 24, 2014 8:58 PM  

The moral? Why bother to join an organization you don't care about and in the process keep it around longer by helping finance it?

To make an example of it.


To use it for false flag operations.

Anonymous Obvious April 24, 2014 9:04 PM  

So you're going to mock the "rabbits" for doing something and then turn around and advocate doing it yourself?

Blogger Midknight April 24, 2014 9:06 PM  

@Alpha Ralpha Boulevardier - FWIW - aside from baen stuff, and now Castalia, I haven't enjoyed much new SF in the last decade either. Tor went from - "Must buy" to "meh?" roughly ten years ago for me. Some books, like "Name of the Wind" by Rothfuss have beautiful prose, but I couldn't finish it in the month I had it from the library, and never bothered to check it out again - because I was SO tired of the character having the rug yanked out form under him for no good reason.

That said, despite some obvious left-worldview in the series (and an evil corporation), I actually did like the trilogy starting with Leviathan Wakes.

Can't think of anything else non-barn (or by a non-barn author) other than Wright and Sanderson that I'd really recommend. Wells is very effective - "I am not a Serial Killer" creeped the hell out of me, but it's not my type of story.

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