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Thursday, May 08, 2014

The ire of the irrelevant

What is it with these Canadian SFWA members?  A SF nonentity is foolish enough to call John C. Wright a liar despite the readily accessible public record:

Andrew Barton ‏@ActsofAndrewB
John C Wright is either ignorant or a liar. Theodore Beale was kicked out of SFWA for using its Twitter feed to disseminate a racist screed.

Andrew Barton ‏@ActsofAndrewB
Personally, given the evidence I have seen thus far, my own suspicion is that John C. Wright knows he is lying and does not give a fuck.

Andrew Barton ‏@ActsofAndrewB
I know this because I am one of those who sent an email to my SFWA board rep demanding Beale's removal. Good riddance to a goddamned swine.

Andrew Barton ‏@ActsofAndrewB
Sometimes I feel like just scouring this planet of life would be the most expedient course.

Andrew Barton ‏@ActsofAndrewB
Folk're sure confident saying things online that they wouldn't if they said them to my face, giving me a chance to break their fucking nose.
The self-proclaimed pencil-neck geek is a real tuff guy. It's fascinating to observe the way these SWPLs insist that it is beyond the pale to call a deceitful and obnoxious African-American "an educated but ignorant half-savage" but deem it acceptable to label Hispanics "goddamned swine". No wonder so few writers of color, such as Larry Correia and Sarah Hoyt, have any desire to join the organization.

At this point, any SF/F writer would have to be a complete fool to think that joining SFWA will enhance his career in any way. SFWA members know that SFWA provides a writer with zero credibility with the publishers, (editors in the SFWA Forum openly joke about how only total noobs are so stupid as to mention their memberships when they are submitting manuscripts), so there is literally no professional upside that comes with the downside of paying for having one's speech policed.

Now consider that this SFWA nobody was attacking a science fiction master on the very day that Mr. Wright's novella was #86 on Amazon: 4,117 people downloaded AWAKE IN THE NIGHT yesterday and the day before.  Another new release from Mr. Wright has been #1 in Science Fiction History & Criticism for three straight days. It is readily apparent that Mr. Wright doesn't need SFWA. I certainly don't need SFWA. Neither does anyone else anymore.

It is very easy to demonstrate that Mr. Barton is a liar himself. The SFWA did not give any reason for expelling an unnamed member last year and still has issued no official statement concerning any of the reasons for its actions: "We will continue to omit the expelled individual’s name and the details of his behavior on advice of counsel."

And as I pointed out in my response to the SFWA report concerning the various false claims about SFWA's "twitter feed": "the channel does not belong to SFWA, the Content did not belong to SFWA, the content was deemed permissible by the channel owner, and the personal attack contained in the blog post to which the tweet linked was fully in line with previous personal attacks made by dozens of other members of the organization in official SFWA spaces. Therefore it is incorrect to claim that an official SFWA channel was misused via the marking for inclusion of the blog post of June 13, 2013 in the @sfwaauthors Twitter feed."

Barton is only one of many SFWA members who simply do not grasp that "@sfwaauthors" is not, and has never been, "SFWA's Twitter feed". That is "@sfwa", which according to Twitter's Terms of Usage, does not belong to SFWA either. They also do not grasp that the tweet in question contained nothing that was racist or offensive, it was a simple link to a blog post. And finally, anyone who has read either the 34-page SFWA report or my detailed response to it knows that the SFWA Board's action was based on its active thought policing of a) me on my personal blog, b) the various commenters on my blog, and c) people with no connection to me commenting on sites with no connection to me. The SFWA President even admitted as much the other day: "Board investigation of harassment complaints may take public statements into consideration". 

By which they not only mean public statements by their members, but also by anyone who happens to comment on a member's blog or anywhere else on the Internet.

Mr. Wright's view of SFWA is entirely correct. The SFWA Board has overtly and undeniably claimed for itself the right to police the public statements of SFWA members. Although the SFWA Board has done its best to bury its own report, inadvertently encouraging members like Andrew Barton to present fiction as fact, the truth is out there. Some of the sub-irrelevant SFWA members, such as the clueless wonder who keeps posting links to her blog post here on unrelated topics, would be advised to read it.

Labels:

84 Comments:

Anonymous DrTorch May 08, 2014 9:19 AM  

Call me petty, but Barton is so keen to talk about using violence to bring about peace, I'd like to see him get his fair share.

Anonymous Alexander May 08, 2014 9:20 AM  

He was spot on with the last observation, he just directed it the wrong way.

Anonymous Baseball Savant May 08, 2014 9:21 AM  

YOU WOULDN'T SAY IT TO HIS FACE!!!!!

Blogger NMA May 08, 2014 9:23 AM  

Interesting guy this Andrew Barton. Thinks physical violence is the solution to disagreements online, muses about whether the destruction of all life on the planet would be a good response to blog posts he doesn't like, and feels a need for safer spaces at conventions. Presumably these safer spaces are for people who want to get away from him.

Anonymous VD May 08, 2014 9:23 AM  

Stop spamming every post with the same link to your blog, Foz.

Anonymous VD May 08, 2014 9:27 AM  

Call me petty, but Barton is so keen to talk about using violence to bring about peace, I'd like to see him get his fair share.

I'll be sure to give him his opportunity if I ever run into him. I would be delighted to give him a chance to break my nose. I once got my nose broken in the very first exchange of a ring fight against a Tae Kwon Do fighter. I barely noticed and it didn't keep me from winning the fight.

Blogger Manach May 08, 2014 9:31 AM  

Mr. Barton's comment on the use of violence thus rather seem to place his preceding postings in a poor regard.

Anonymous B Lewis May 08, 2014 9:33 AM  

Sent to Mr. Barton today:

"Dear Mr. Barton:

In a recent entry on your Twitter account, you wrote:

'Follk're sure confident saying things online that they wouldn't if they said them to my face, giving me a chance to break their fucking nose.'

I would enjoy giving you such a chance. The next time you are in the North Texas area, please contact me at this address, and I will be happy to state to your face my personal opinion of weak-tea Canadian losers who like to threaten physical violence on the internet.

Please note that I am a racist, sexist, homophobic cismale who refuses to check his privilege.

May God richly bless you during this Easter season.

Sincerely,

Bruce Lewis"

I'm sure Mr. Tough Guy will be on the next flight down.

Anonymous Hound's Tooth Check May 08, 2014 9:33 AM  

http://tinyurl.com/kygk4t8

(repost with shorter URL)

Be careful, guys. Andrew looks pretty scary.

Heh.

Blogger Desdichado May 08, 2014 9:34 AM  

Just looks like a guy with a goofy grin. Can't even see anything but his face in that shot anyway.

Anonymous Anonymous May 08, 2014 9:43 AM  

I made the mistake of reading Meadows' "response" to Wright.

The comments are truly lol-worthy. Commenters praise her "bravery" for reading Wright while Meadows opines that 1984 is about "rightwing extremism"-- taking her cues from MSNBC's Krystal Ball no doubt.

Anonymous Daniel May 08, 2014 9:44 AM  

If you and the SFWA could come to terms, you could split the profits on the board report and response and make a mint, esp. if it had a forward by John Wright.

Too bad "making a profit writing" is public enemy number one to the SFWA. The only thing they are good for these days is sidetracking careers.

Anonymous Daniel May 08, 2014 9:44 AM  

foreword. sheesh.

Anonymous JP May 08, 2014 9:44 AM  

Mr. Wright's novella was #86 on Amazon: 4,117 people downloaded AWAKE IN THE NIGHT yesterday and the day before.

I am reading it now. It is unlike anything else I have ever read. Now I am keen to read Hodgson.

Anonymous VD May 08, 2014 9:48 AM  

It is unlike anything else I have ever read. Now I am keen to read Hodgson.

Read AWAKE IN THE NIGHT LAND first....

Anonymous Alexander May 08, 2014 9:50 AM  

Given the fictional nature of the work, would the Vox Report be eligible for a Hugo?

Anonymous Salt May 08, 2014 9:54 AM  

Such a wonderful Twitter page he has, all that Pink.

Anonymous Salt May 08, 2014 10:02 AM  

Barton looks like a pencil neck. I doubt he'd last a day at sea. Anyway, I'll say it to his face too and even allow him the first shot.

Anonymous Josh May 08, 2014 10:05 AM  

It's like there's a factory somewhere churning out an endless supply of these idiots...

Anonymous I Am Irony, Man May 08, 2014 10:07 AM  

swine-that-walks-like-a-man Vox Day

Racist white man needs to check his privilege.

Anonymous VD May 08, 2014 10:09 AM  

Since he is Canadian, obviously we shall have to complain about his grotesque anti-Hispanic racism to the proper Canadian authorities. Be sure to grab screenshots.

Blogger James Dixon May 08, 2014 10:09 AM  

> Sometimes I feel like just scouring this planet of life would be the most expedient course.

Obviously, if he's that keen on the idea he should start with himself.

> Folk're sure confident saying things online that they wouldn't if they said them to my face, giving me a chance to break their fucking nose.

If Mr. Barton wants my address, I'll be happy to give it to him, and he's welcome to drop by and try to break my nose. I'm sure someone will be passing on the posts here, and Vox has my email.

Better men than him have tried physical violence with me. Some of them won, some not. Maybe now that I'm the latter half of my 50's he'll be one of the ones who wins. But I wouldn't place any bets on it.

Anonymous Peter Garstig May 08, 2014 10:10 AM  

Sometimes I feel like just scouring this planet of life would be the most expedient course.

Leftist self-hate proclamations at its best...it makes them look so wonderful and good. Life, to them, means nothing. So it's ok to simply erase it just to morally elevate themselves over others (that won't exist anymore).

Blogger Midknight May 08, 2014 10:12 AM  

JP: It is unlike anything else I have ever read. Now I am keen to read Hodgson.

VD: Read AWAKE IN THE NIGHT LAND first....


I already started reading Hodgson first to get a grounding in the original. But then, I'm strange that way - as I actually like getting into the mental flow of old language. Once you get a chance to remap things like "brain elements" as weird nano tech or telepathy, the evocative, poetically hellish nightmare world and its forthright protagonist are compelling.

That said - not having read Wrights work - I suspect your advice would be best for most people.

Blogger Tommy Hass May 08, 2014 10:12 AM  

Good God, his face looks like my toilet paper.

Anonymous Roundtine May 08, 2014 10:13 AM  

Read AWAKE IN THE NIGHT LAND first....

Do you mean read that novella first, or all four novellas? I just downloaded The Night Land (can't beat $0.00) and Awake in the Night Land collection off Amazon.

Anonymous Hound's Tooth Check May 08, 2014 10:14 AM  

"SF is using Heinlein for compost now"

Starship Troopers by Robert A. Heinlein: Amazon sales rank #2,122.

The Key to Starveldt by Foz Meadows: Amazon sales rank #1,037,332.

Anonymous VD May 08, 2014 10:21 AM  

Apparently the proper Canadian authorities are the Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario.

Do you mean read that novella first, or all four novellas?

The latter. He just said he read the former.

Anonymous John C. Wrong May 08, 2014 10:22 AM  

Don't worry, it's gonna get better. I promise you.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304431104579548052289065492

"First Amendment? It's more like a fatwa. The Obama administration has issued a federal hunting license to deputize fanatics at any university in America. They will define who gets accused, and on what basis. If it's possible for the left to have its John Birch moment, we're in it. Wave goodbye to cardboard civility."

Anonymous Hound's Tooth Check May 08, 2014 10:28 AM  

It's also amusing that if you search for Andrew Barton on Twitter, the first result is a British hairdresser, the second is an illustrator in Charleston, and the third is a tech recruiter. There's also a massage therapist and a guy who does marketing for car dealerships.

This Andrew clocks in at #14. Apparently even Twitter thinks that he's irrelevant.

Anonymous Joe Doakes May 08, 2014 10:29 AM  

Andrew Barton's repeated threats of physical violence put me in fear of imminent bodily harm so now I can shoot him in self-defense. Is this a great country, or what?
.

Anonymous NK Jemisin to the White Courtesy Phone May 08, 2014 10:46 AM  

break their fucking nose

Is he implying your Jewish?
When all you've got is a hammer, everyone's a racist.

Blogger Positive Dennis May 08, 2014 10:49 AM  

Since one of the effects of soy is reduced testosterone I suggest a soy smoothie for the ilk.

Anonymous MrGreenMan May 08, 2014 10:54 AM  

The Canadians appear to be the most uninhibited in lashing out online - perhaps it's the sideshow mirror trick of their claim to being such nice people - they hate America, they hate religion, they've got the inferiority complex as to how the uncouth Americans could have more money than them (look at their cars; they're poorer than America, regardless of recent statistics claiming otherwise); you want to see anger, get the dander up from a Canadian feminist. They've implemented all the laws and regulations that should have eliminated badthink and given everybody free STD treatment and all they have to show for it is a bunch of provinces that want to leave in the East and towns, cities, and provinces that consider themselves to be Chinese colonies and are openly hostile to Anglo Canadians.

Blogger Unknown May 08, 2014 10:56 AM  

@JP
"Now I am keen to read Hodgson."

You might be disappointed. Hodgson had great ideas but then he made this strange decision to package them in some kind of old 17th Century version of English. Sometimes it is hard to read, enjoyable but hard. Of course English is not my native language, so it may be easier for you.

Anonymous Susan May 08, 2014 10:59 AM  

Do these idiots even realize that when they call for the wiping out of all life on the planet, they are of course including their own? He would be among those craven cowards who were screaming like school girls when it came time for his turn to go.

Tuff says it all about this guy. I doubt they would do anything about it, but I would pay money to see this guy's reaction to being summoned to appear before the Human Rights Commission. Maybe he could talk to that other really awful guy named Mark Steyn about his dealings with the Commission.

IMO, Josh won the thread with his comment.

Anonymous Just Mark May 08, 2014 11:07 AM  

"Andrew Barton ‏@ActsofAndrewB
Sometimes I feel like just scouring this planet of life would be the most expedient course."

You first Andrew .... You first.

Anonymous jack May 08, 2014 11:09 AM  

Do I hear the loudly flapping wings of jurisprudence in the distance approaching the quaking and terrified members of a certain author's organization?

Maybe. Meanwhile you can go to Mr. Wright's site, looking back a few days and read His version of what adcopy should be for His Loftiness. It should still be there. Don't be drinking anything over your keyboard as you read. Seriously.

Blogger Pulp Herb May 08, 2014 11:34 AM  

I don't know Mr. Barton and I'm not a big Twitter user by you'll see I'm commenting under my own name Mr. Barton. Name the con and I'll attend and say plenty of things straight to your face and allow you the first punch.

Anonymous Longdong May 08, 2014 11:36 AM  

The comments here have made the title of the original post deliciously ironic.

Blogger Desiderius May 08, 2014 11:40 AM  

Peter Garstig,

"Sometimes I feel like just scouring this planet of life would be the most expedient course.

Leftist self-hate proclamations at its best...it makes them look so wonderful and good. Life, to them, means nothing. So it's ok to simply erase it just to morally elevate themselves over others (that won't exist anymore)."

Self-hate? You know who else scoured the planet of (almost all) life? God.

These people don't hate themselves, but the opposite - they believe themselves Gods fit to rule over the rest of us and have been operationalizing that belief for a good long while while sit idly by pondering their non-existent self-hate/self-loathing/white guilt.

Where does that idea even come from?

Anonymous Ted Turner May 08, 2014 11:43 AM  

Fun times...

Damien Walter ‏@damiengwalter 32m
I wonder when John C Wright decided to obliterate his career as an SF writer? Was it a sudden urge, or did it come on slow?

JamesK ‏@jamesk 24m
@damiengwalter well, he has been trying to destroy it for 5 years at least http://thewertzone.blogspot.co.uk/2009/08/author-john-c-wright-goes-off-on-anti.html …

Blogger Desiderius May 08, 2014 11:43 AM  

"It's like there's a factory somewhere churning out an endless supply of these idiots..."

I believe its commonly known as Higher Education.

Anonymous Pseudo-Nate May 08, 2014 11:52 AM  

"Calling Hispanic writers goddamn swine"

Please, we prefer 'Puercos Malditos'..in respect for our cultural heritage

Blogger Pinakeli May 08, 2014 12:00 PM  

Positive Dennis May 08, 2014 10:49 AM

Since one of the effects of soy is reduced testosterone I suggest a soy smoothie for the ilk.


Personally, I think the Ilk should give Soy enemas to anyone so vile as to suggest such a thing!

Blogger Pinakeli May 08, 2014 12:08 PM  

Joe Doakes May 08, 2014 10:29 AM

Andrew Barton's repeated threats of physical violence put me in fear of imminent bodily harm so now I can shoot him in self-defense. Is this a great country, or what?


This could be misconstrued, however I also would not knowingly be in the presence of anyone who make "bullying" or violent threats unarmed.

Anonymous DrTorch May 08, 2014 12:21 PM  

Leftist self-hate proclamations at its best...it makes them look so wonderful and good. Life, to them, means nothing. So it's ok to simply erase it just to morally elevate themselves over others (that won't exist anymore)."

Self-hate? You know who else scoured the planet of (almost all) life? God.

These people don't hate themselves, but the opposite - they believe themselves Gods fit to rule over the rest of us and have been operationalizing that belief for a good long while while sit idly by pondering their non-existent self-hate/self-loathing/white guilt.

Where does that idea even come from?


It seems obvious to me: Satan. He hates humans. He hates life. He wants to destroy God's creation, and if he can manipulate it to destroy itself, even better. Sort of a "take that!" to his enemy.

Anonymous VD May 08, 2014 12:26 PM  

I wonder when John C Wright decided to obliterate his career as an SF writer? Was it a sudden urge, or did it come on slow?

Whatever Walter's definition of "career" may be, it obviously doesn't concern "making money by selling books".

Blogger rcocean May 08, 2014 12:29 PM  

It is amazing how panty-waist lefties are such foul mouth tuff guys. Pretty soon Mr. Barton will bring the dress out and start calling people dip-shits. As for Canadians, their "Progressives" are a whole SD to the left. They make American liberals appear almost normal.

Anonymous REG May 08, 2014 12:38 PM  

"Longdong May 08, 2014 11:36 AM

The comments here have made the title of the original post deliciously ironic."

Ironic: contradictory, twisted, ridiculous, mocking, satiric, sardonic, paradoxical, critical, derisive, exaggerated, caustic, biting, incisive, scathing,satirical, bitter.

Like your screen handle indicates an expanded idea of what you think vs the mirror, I don't think that "deliciously ironic" means what you think it means. Get back into your 'big boy pajamas' and read one of Andrew's novels over a cup of hot chocolate. He'll educate you on irony soon enough.

Blogger CostelloM May 08, 2014 12:39 PM  

"I once got my nose broken in the very first exchange of a ring fight against a Tae Kwon Do fighter. I barely noticed and it didn't keep me from winning the fight."

Interesting. I do not doubt your account but I am curious about a "women's defense course" I once attended with my then girlfriend. The advice from the teacher was to hit the potential attacker/rapist "in the nose" because this would incapacitate him. Obviously this is not true for you and some potential large portion? of the population. What are you thoughts on a woman striking a man to attempt to disengage and flee.

Blogger CostelloM May 08, 2014 12:42 PM  

This is off topic (forgiveness requested) but I am curious as I can certainly testify that a kick towards the genitals is all but useless unless you are damn sure of connecting.

Anonymous VD May 08, 2014 12:53 PM  

The advice from the teacher was to hit the potential attacker/rapist "in the nose" because this would incapacitate him.

The teacher is an idiot. I knew I'd been hit, but I didn't even notice the break or the blood. When they stopped the fight momentarily to deal with the bleeding, I had no idea why. A woman should do anything she can to disengage and flee. Key word being: flee.

I can certainly testify that a kick towards the genitals is all but useless unless you are damn sure of connecting.

Even if you connect cleanly it won't necessarily matter. I took a straight shot from a black belt that rode up the inside of my leg. It didn't even slow me down and I felt nothing due to the adrenaline. After the round was over, the pain hit pretty hard, but I was able to continue after the one-minute break.

Anonymous JP May 08, 2014 12:57 PM  

It is unlike anything else I have ever read. Now I am keen to read Hodgson.

Read AWAKE IN THE NIGHT LAND first....


Of course. Just finished the first story. Excellent indeed!

The original is free on Amazon, but the way.

Anonymous Copperhead Joe May 08, 2014 1:02 PM  

Remo
The advice from the teacher was to hit the potential attacker/rapist "in the nose" because this would incapacitate him. Obviously this is not true for you and some potential large portion? of the population.

I had my nose broken in the first punch of a fight in college. I didn't realize it until the next morning. It didn't even have a bearing on the outcome. I lost anyway, but it was because of a hold that cut off my air. I felt my nose clicking the next morning, and an x-ray at the student health center confirmed the break. It is definitely not a surefire way to end a fight. I was still 100% fighting mode, zero awareness of pain, until it turned into a wrestling match against a much better wrestler. Can't win 'em all.

Anonymous VD May 08, 2014 1:06 PM  

To incapacitate non-lethally with a single blow, you must break a jaw, an elbow, or a leg. Any of these is most likely beyond even a well-trained woman. I've seen guys fight with broken wrists and I've fought myself on a broken ankle.

Blogger James Dixon May 08, 2014 1:37 PM  

> To incapacitate non-lethally with a single blow, you must break a jaw, an elbow, or a leg.

I believe I was taught that a kneecap would also do. That was a long time ago, and I may be misremembering. That's a bit harder to do, of course.

Anonymous JP May 08, 2014 1:38 PM  

My karate instructors favored the instep stomp.

Unsure if that actually works in real life.

Anonymous jack May 08, 2014 1:52 PM  

VD May 08, 2014 12:26 PM

I wonder when John C Wright decided to obliterate his career as an SF writer? Was it a sudden urge, or did it come on slow?

At this point I don't think John C. Wright Could obliterate his career. Short of crossing swords with the Lovely and Talented Mrs. Wright he can probably do no wrong.

Blogger John Wright May 08, 2014 2:14 PM  

"I wonder when John C Wright decided to obliterate his career as an SF writer? Was it a sudden urge, or did it come on slow?"

Here is what is illogical about this:

The same two or three shrill and yapping dogs making all this PC noise BOTH become offended if someone (as I did) says they are PC thought police attempting to lower sales figures and hinder careers of non-PC writers AND yap just as shrilly threatening to lower sales figures and hinder careers of the non-PC writers.

Got that? They are both offended if you say being a Christian Conservative will harm your career (because this accuses them of being witch-hunters) or if you say being a Christian Conservative will not harm your career (because his defies the witch-hunters as powerless).

This is an application of the same philosophy they use in other fields. In economics, they want an outcome, wealth and prosperity, without the mechanism needed to create the outcome, capital invested in private property. In politics, they want an outcome, international peace, without the mechanism needed to create the outcome, a large and powerful military force under the control of a civilized civilian authority.

They want an outcome (Christians out of literature) but they do not want the mechanism needed to create the outcome (a witch-hunt) to be acknowledged to exist.

Anonymous Jo McDojo May 08, 2014 2:14 PM  

For a woman attempting to escape a male attacker, best bet would be an eye poke followed up with a knee/kick to the groin, then run.

Anonymous Don May 08, 2014 2:38 PM  

Got my nose broke once in the ring and they had to stop the fight because my eyes swelled shut. It was really ugly but I wasn't even aware it was broken until they tried to deal with it in the corner.

When I was shaking hands with the winner he asked half joking if my mom had a gun with her. I said, "No I don't think so, why?" He said, "You did say she was a competition shooter?" "Yeah, won ribbons and everything." "Well I think she wants to shoot me."

When I could get a good look at myself I could see why mom was mad, I looked like a mess. My opponent and I used to laugh about that every time we trained together.

Anonymous VD May 08, 2014 2:43 PM  

They want an outcome (Christians out of literature) but they do not want the mechanism needed to create the outcome (a witch-hunt) to be acknowledged to exist.

Hence the burying of the SFWA Board report. And Steven Gould's denial that the Board will do what the Board already did.

But who cares. We Christians invented the fantasy market. We don't need the interlopers. I've been reading what is considered one of the best new fantasy series by one of the interlopers. It is... barren.

More when I finish the second book. I won't bother with the third.

Anonymous Rex Little May 08, 2014 2:47 PM  

It's fascinating to observe the way these SWPLs insist that it is beyond the pale to call a deceitful and obnoxious African-American "an educated but ignorant half-savage" but deem it acceptable to label Hispanics "goddamned swine".

Apples and oranges. "Half-savage" was a direct reference to Jemisin's race, while "swine" is his opinion of your statements, beliefs and character. He might not even know that you're part Hispanic; I wouldn't if I didn't read VP.

Anonymous JP May 08, 2014 2:50 PM  

They want an outcome (Christians out of literature) but they do not want the mechanism needed to create the outcome (a witch-hunt) to be acknowledged to exist.

For now, anyway. As the Left's power increases, their concern for appearances decreases.

Anonymous Tracy May 08, 2014 2:52 PM  

. "Half-savage" was a direct reference to Jemisin's race,

Half-savages = black people, eh? Are you one of those SWPLs who saw the movie King Kong or Return of the King and thought "hey look at those black monkeys, they look just like n_ggers? Peter Jackson is SUCH a RACIST!"

Blogger Midknight May 08, 2014 3:07 PM  

@Rex - re:" "Half-savage" was a direct reference to Jemisin's race "

So - skin color and genetics that determine if one is a savage, not behavior, or the morals and culture they choose to embrace?

Me - I believe blacks, indians, etc. can be "not savages/not barbarians" - and that whites can be savages/barbarians

Which one of us is tying behavior, culture, and civilizational capability to race here?

Anonymous I Am Irony, Man May 08, 2014 3:14 PM  

Rex Little: "Apples and oranges. "Half-savage" was a direct reference to Jemisin's race, while "swine" is his opinion of your statements, beliefs and character."

Incorrect. According to the man's own words:

Andrew Barton @ActsofAndrewB So apparently, calling a PoC a "savage" is totally not racist because REASONS, and when I interpret it as racist it's totally my fault.

This explicitly states that calling a PoC a "savage" is racist no matter what. It doesn't matter whether Vox was referring to her race or only her character, it is racist PERIOD.

So, according to his own criteria, calling a PoC a "swine" is also racist no matter what. You attempting to excuse it boils down to, if you'll pardon the expression, BECAUSE REASONS.

Anonymous VD May 08, 2014 3:18 PM  

Apples and oranges. "Half-savage" was a direct reference to Jemisin's race, while "swine" is his opinion of your statements, beliefs and character. He might not even know that you're part Hispanic; I wouldn't if I didn't read VP.

That distinction is obviously false, since I have clearly stated that there are individuals of sub-Saharan descent who are fully civilized and also fully savage. It was a direct reference to Jemisin's behavior and apparent thought processes.

Anonymous I Am Irony, Man May 08, 2014 3:19 PM  

Longdong: "The comments here have made the title of the original post deliciously ironic."

Indeed...including your own.

Irony embedded within irony tucked inside irony...it's irony all the way down.

That's like, really heavy, man.

Anonymous I Am Irony, Man May 08, 2014 3:33 PM  

VD: "Apparently the proper Canadian authorities are the Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario."

From the instructions:

How do I file an Application on behalf of another person?

To file an application on behalf of another person, you must complete and file this Application (Form 1) as well one other form:
· Form 4A if you are filing on behalf of a minor;
· Form 4B if you are filing on behalf of a mentally incompetent person; or
· Form 27 for all other situations where you are filing on behalf of someone else.


Erm...so, Form 4B, is it?

Blogger James Dixon May 08, 2014 3:36 PM  

> He might not even know that you're part Hispanic; I wouldn't if I didn't read VP.

And whose fault is that?

Anonymous Speaker-To-SFWAs May 08, 2014 5:31 PM  

I am unable to Google up even so much as a single novel for this wannabe. Just another barnacle on the rotting hulk of what was once the proud S.S. Science Fiction, evidently.

Anonymous Red Comet May 08, 2014 6:13 PM  

No clue who this guy is and it took a few tries in DuckDuckGo to find what I assume are the four or so books he's written. Didn't even have a wikipedia page.

That said I wonder if he's planning to bring his tough guy act to London.

Anonymous Rex Little May 08, 2014 8:53 PM  

It was a direct reference to Jemisin's behavior and apparent thought processes.

If that's the case, then my mistake. I didn't read everything you wrote on the subject, and I'm not going to dig back through the archives for what I did read, but what I remember as your explanation for the remark is a reference to the relatively short length of time that blacks (as a group) have been exposed to civilization. That's why I called it a direct reference to Jemisin's race. I never saw anything which tied the description to her behavior as an individual. (As I said, I didn't see everything that was written.)

Granting what you say, however, there's still a category difference between your remark and Barton's. "Savage" is a common stereotypical description of blacks, so using it to describe an individual black person is easily seen as racist. (If Jemisin were, say, Asian, it would be insulting but few would consider it racist.)

"Swine," on the other hand, isn't related to any Hispanic stereotype I've ever come across.

Anonymous WaterBoy May 08, 2014 9:05 PM  

Rex Little: ""Swine," on the other hand, isn't related to any Hispanic stereotype I've ever come across."

From the Urban Dictionary:

2. swiner
A racial slur for a mexican because they have the swine flu.


Also shortened to just "swine".

Anonymous WaterBoy May 08, 2014 9:10 PM  

Ironically, "swine" is also used as a racial slur against whites, as it refers to similar skin tones with pigs. Either way, as someone of Mexican ancestry, or as a White, it can be considered a racial slur against Vox.

Anonymous Rex Little May 08, 2014 9:21 PM  

OK, learned something new. I guess at my age it's hard to keep up with all the latest racial epithets. :)

Anonymous WaterBoy May 08, 2014 9:23 PM  

You ain't the only one. Eventually, every word in the dictionary is going to cause offense to somebody, somewhere.

Anonymous Anonymous May 09, 2014 12:07 AM  

> For a woman attempting to escape a male attacker, best bet would be an eye poke followed up with a knee/kick to the groin, then run.

Groin shots are actually not very reliable at incapacitating drunk or high people, which odds are this male attacker would be. And eye pokes are really hard to get home with because of flinch reactions.

My absolute fave for the disengage and flee strategy is a throat shot. Even bar fighters, never mind those poor saps who like to think they learned 'fighting' some way that involves rules, really don't expect it or generally defend well against it; and no matter how drunk or high someone is, if they can't breathe, they promptly stop paying attention to anything other than getting another breath, and once they get it they're in no mood to start running after you.

Anonymous Doug Wardell May 09, 2014 11:08 AM  

For a woman to get away from a male attacker... The best recommendation is to always be safety-aware and do your best to avoid getting into unsafe situations to begin with. IE, carry a rape whistle, don't go to non-public places alone, don't spend time alone with or provoke strangers, etc. Beyond that, I'd recommend a gun if you have the drive to learn to handle it well under duress and the ability to carry in your jurisdiction. As a last resort, I'd suggest trying to vomit and otherwise making yourself as disgusting and pitiful as possible as it's more likely to work than fighting back.

For almost all women vs. almost all men, winning a physical confrontation is unlikely. If you have no other options though, act submissive and wait for an opportunity to surprise and incapacitate him quickly, such as by suddenly and forcefully stabbing him in the eye or temple with a key, and then immediately flee. Be aware though that this may enrage him if you fail. Also, groin strikes are not likely to succeed vs. a determined attacker as adrenaline will delay the pain even if you are able to connect with enough force to harm him.

Anonymous Donald Sterling May 09, 2014 11:54 AM  

"Ironically, "swine" is also used as a racial slur against whites, as it refers to similar skin tones with pigs. Either way, as someone of Mexican ancestry, or as a White, it can be considered a racial slur against Vox."

There is no such thing as racism or sexism. I am totally serious. These words are utterly meaningless in today's differing definition driven society. The racialists like the Steve Sailer's and Cornel West's of the world are odious in particular.

Anonymous WaterBoy May 09, 2014 4:25 PM  

The terms exist in the Leftists' world, so they need to be held to the same standard they want to apply to everybody else. If Vox is to be labelled a racist by this standard, then Andrew Barton is also a racist by the same standard.

Anonymous emdfl May 10, 2014 2:36 AM  

Gees, and all this time I thought"savages" referred to Indians(native american to the PC).

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