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Tuesday, June 03, 2014

The inevitable decline of atheism

Another reminder that the future belongs to those who show up for it:
The world could see a resurgence of Christianity driven by population decline in sceptical countries, the geneticist Steve Jones has claimed. Professor Jones said history had proven that religion grows rapidly during large population booms, particularly in poorer countries. He argued that rapid growth in Africa could spark a new resurgence of major religions like Christianity. However in increasingly atheist countries in Europe people are no longer reproducing in sufficient numbers to avoid population decline, he told the Hay Literary Festival.

"We atheists sometimes congratulate ourselves that the incidence of religious belief is going down. But religious people have more children. Where are people having the most children? It’s in the tropics and in Africa. It’s clearly the case that the future will involve an increase in religious populations and a decrease in scepticism."
It's not only that. There is also the fact that most of the children raised in an atheist home eventually become religious; the only reason that the rate of growth of atheism briefly, (in historical terms), was fast enough to surmount that inhibiting factor is because the atheist population was so small. Atheists are at the literal bottom of the retention rate in comparison with every religious group from Hindus to Jehovah's Witnesses. Even the mealy-mouthed Anglicans fare better.

A more important factor is that times of wealth and peace have always been a counter-indicator of religious belief. The rich and fat seldom believe they have any need for God, and they deeply resent any divinely inspired restrictions on their descent into decadence. At the end of the longest period of peace and economic expansion in the history of the West, it should be no surprise at all that we have an obese, decadent, depraved, diseased population that fears no God.

They will learn better soon enough. Both history and the Bible are very clear concerning the eventual fate of such societies.

Labels:

119 Comments:

Anonymous takin' a look. June 03, 2014 6:04 AM  

White, European Style Christianity will survive in the form of the Amish, certain evangelicals(Quiverfulls) and Mormons for the most part. The rest will get flushed down the toilet bol of history...ta-ta! All la grande prissy arguments over if God makes a rock too big for him to throw amount to a hill of beans, Homoschooling is soaring, the combination of Marxist Frankfort schools, Frontal lobe emotional and mirror neuron killing gengineered bacteriophages in Vacs and SSRIs which elevate serotonin levels constantly for same effect, crappy diet, crappy stress levels, crappy everything STILL hasn't eliminated the fast breeding white christians who select both quantity AND quality. The Build da burgers must be gnashing their teeth!

Anonymous takin' a look. June 03, 2014 6:05 AM  

arggh! *Homeschooling!

Blogger Cataline Sergius June 03, 2014 6:15 AM  

Atheist couples generally don't seem to have more than one kid. If those kids stay atheist they tend to have only have one late in life kid themselves. In the end, sixteen atheists will produce only one grandchild.

God is in the details.

Anonymous Omophage June 03, 2014 6:17 AM  

"There is also the fact that most of the children raised in an atheist home eventually become religious" [citation needed]

Anonymous hardscrabble farmer June 03, 2014 6:22 AM  

People in the tropics and Africa aren't having more children than people in the West because of religion. They have more children because they have a far higher infant mortality, they have a predisposition to indulge in intercourse without the benefit of birth control and aid from the West makes it far easier to inflate these numbers. Western people already have a predisposition to smaller number of offspring and the advance of feminism and widely available prophylactics exacerbates our reproductive strategy.

The fundamental tenet of Christianity has always been "be fruitful and multiply" not "get a career first and marry after your fertility has declined to the point of never having children.

Put blame where it belongs and give credit where it is due.

Blogger Rantor June 03, 2014 6:22 AM  

From Judges, "Israel had no king and everyone did what was right in their own eyes". So it is with the atheists and other non-believers, they have brought judgement upon themselves. For the Christian, Christ is our King and we should endeavor to do that which is right in his eyes.

Anonymous CJ June 03, 2014 6:26 AM  

They know this, of course. That's why public school is a hill they're willing to die on. They don't have kids, so they'll steal yours if you let them.

Anonymous x June 03, 2014 6:36 AM  

what religion will everyone be is the question?

Blogger Michael Maier June 03, 2014 6:39 AM  

"Be fruitful and multiply"

I'm not expert, but might that be TWO commands, as in "Be productive in your world - and make babies".

I'd like that... then I could say that there are whole sectors of the economy that are un-Biblical.

Anonymous VD June 03, 2014 6:42 AM  

"There is also the fact that most of the children raised in an atheist home eventually become religious" [citation needed]

I have posted on this before, complete with the link to the relevant studies. Do your own fucking research. This is a blog, not a science journal.

Blogger Lud VanB June 03, 2014 6:45 AM  

"The fundamental tenet of Christianity has always been "be fruitful and multiply" not "get a career first and marry after your fertility has declined to the point of never having children."

Incidentally, this also seems to be the tenet of most other infectious diseases...funny how that is.

Anonymous =/= June 03, 2014 6:57 AM  

Infectious diseases have opinions/beliefs/principles?
Neat. I can always count on atheists for accurate science facts.

Anonymous lurker June 03, 2014 6:58 AM  

It's time for Lud's daily slapping.

Blogger Hermit June 03, 2014 7:08 AM  

Our demographical is also caused by secular principles.
Today our society promotes hedonism and sex for pleasures, what escapes from contraception is "fixed" with abortions. Marriage and family values are in bad shape too.

It's like a cycle
"progress"->irreligion->hedonism->low birth rates->barbarians->collapse->religious revival

Anonymous Roundtine June 03, 2014 7:18 AM  

Do the religious need to have many babies though? I assume atheists are not even at replacement level fertility.

OpenID cailcorishev June 03, 2014 7:26 AM  

I've noticed that atheists often frame the history of belief as a pendulum swinging back and forth between religion and non-religion, as if sometimes religion has been dominant and sometimes it hasn't. When the truth is that humans as a rule have always been religious, but at certain times in history -- times of great prosperity and luxury -- a minority of them have dabbled in non-belief.

Has there ever been a society where the majority of people didn't believe in a deity or deities and engage in some sort of religious ritual?

Blogger Shimshon June 03, 2014 7:27 AM  

The vast majority of the crowd I hung out with in college have no children whatsoever. A couple have the one token kid. Only a few have more than one. In hindsight, it was easy to see even then who would have kids and who wouldn't. The no-kids peeps are atheists, and even though their ideas are so wrong and injurious, I am comforted that their influence is limited because they have declined to raise a next generation. They will grow old bitching and complaining as their influence wanes evermore.

OpenID cailcorishev June 03, 2014 7:30 AM  

Atheist couples generally don't seem to have more than one kid. If those kids stay atheist they tend to have only have one late in life kid themselves. In the end, sixteen atheists will produce only one grandchild.

Well, 8 children, 4 grandchildren, 2 great-grandchildren, and 1 great-great-grandchild. But yeah, atheists don't reproduce themselves very well the old-fashioned way. Like leftists in general, or homosexuals, they need the schools and other tools of indoctrination for making converts.

Anonymous a. scientist June 03, 2014 7:32 AM  

Neckbeard Lud will fail to replace the neckbeard population. This is science.

Anonymous rex June 03, 2014 7:36 AM  

If Christians are a disease. ... then Lud and his atheist pals would kill all Christians off if they could thus they admit the atheist tendency to democide.

Blogger RandalThorn June 03, 2014 7:42 AM  

[White, European Style Christianity will survive in the form of the Amish, certain evangelicals(Quiverfulls) and Mormons for the most part. The rest will get flushed down the toilet bol of history...ta-ta!]

Hey! Over 85% of people in Greece identify themselves as Christian (Greek Orthdox to be exact).

Anonymous hardscrabble farmer June 03, 2014 7:45 AM  

I'd be willing to bet my bottom dollar that the rate of infectious, STD's have a much higher incidence in never married, childless, atheists than in married religious couples with children.

But I'd also bet that the CDC hasn't done that study.

Anonymous Luke June 03, 2014 7:56 AM  

I have never heard of an atheist equivalent of the Quiver Full movement:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=102005062

http://voices.yahoo.com/quiver-full-religious-movement-1451391.html

They're in the U.K., too: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-22526252

From the articles, they're all Christian, oppose abortion, usually against any use of contraception, likely to homeschool, often live rurally, AND RAISE THEIR CHILDREN WITH THESE VALUES. A quote from one family:

"They speak about, 'If everyone starts having eight children or 12 children, imagine in three generations what we'll be able to do,' " Joyce says. " 'We'll be able to take over both halls of Congress, we'll be able to reclaim sinful cities like San Francisco for the faithful, and we'll be able to wage very effective massive boycotts against companies that are going against God's will.' "

Libtards are the Shakers of our time. People like the Quiver Full families live their lives akin to the line used by Neo at the end of the Matrix movie: "I'm going to show these people something you don't want them to see -- a world without you".

Was it Hitler or Mao who said that if he had the children for 8 (?) years, that thereafter opponents could do as they wished with the children, that they'd always be his? Socialists here are going to find out that this works in reverse, too...

Anonymous Toby Temple June 03, 2014 7:59 AM  

Biological dead-ends.

So much for their claim to being so damn smart.

Blogger Hanns Strudle extra gooey June 03, 2014 8:09 AM  

All atheists that you encounter on the internet are goofy white guys from middle to upper class families who were spoiled and pampered their entire lives. I'd bet the house most have either a weak father or divorced parents. Or, they could be just little pricks who hate rules.

Blogger J Curtis June 03, 2014 8:11 AM  

@ Homophage, this was as difficult as copying and pasting the words 'children raised in an atheist home eventually become religious' into a google search engine.

Why Aren’t Atheist Parents Raising Atheist Children?

If there's one thing you should know about VD by now it's that he doesn't just pull info out of his butt while posting it on the internet.

Anonymous Cranberry June 03, 2014 8:16 AM  

"the tenet of most other infectious diseases."

The full passage from Genesis 1:28 is

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gn 1:28, KJV

Not an infectious disease. We are not commanded to destroy the Earth in our multiplying, but rather to have "dominion," a word to which we assign negative meaning, when it is simply "stewardship."

Be fruitful, multiply, and be good keepers of God's Earth. He gave it to us, and we should always take care to keep its welfare in our sights, lest we destroy our source of physical sustenance.

Anonymous Pork Milkshake June 03, 2014 8:31 AM  

"It’s clearly the case that the future will involve an increase in religious populations and a decrease in scepticism."

How the snarkmeisters love their buzzwords 'skepticism' and 'conspiracy theory/ist' being two of the word-grenades which any committed leftist packs on their person at all times.

The first is intended to elevate the user to the status of intellectual infallibility while the second paints anyone who delves deeper than a millimeter into anything presented as fact by a government or media authority figure as a paranoid cretin.

Naturally skeptics do not believe in conspiracy theories - unless the Koch brothers and their henchmen of Tea Party Darkness are implicated, in which case these are simply facts.

Anyone who wants to call themselves a skeptic should first be required to list their own foundational beliefs, and then to attempt to present sincere counter-arguments to these. That should at least allow them to engage briefly and seriously with ideas which they don't personally hold.

The funny thing about atheist 'skeptics' to me is that they'd only accept proof of God in a scientific paper. Should any God happen to wish to communicate via fate, feeling, beauty, meditation, prayer, love, kindness, grace, compassion or mystery, he's out on his arse.

A REAL God would have to consent to having himself quantified, measured, documented, vivisected, peered reviewed and finally published in a scientific journal to prove his authenticity beyond a measure of doubt. In other words he'd need to make himself comprehensible to autists.



Anonymous Obvious June 03, 2014 8:39 AM  

There is also the fact that most of the children raised in an atheist home eventually become religious

Citation needed.

Anonymous zen0 June 03, 2014 8:44 AM  

Obvious June 03, 2014 8:39 AM

There is also the fact that most of the children raised in an atheist home eventually become religious

Citation needed.


Its obvious you did not read the comments.


I have posted on this before, complete with the link to the relevant studies. Do your own fucking research. This is a blog, not a science journal.

VD June 03, 2014 6:42 AM

Anonymous PhillipGeorge(c)2014 June 03, 2014 8:44 AM  

It's an old argument but if God doesn't judge the Western World He'd have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah.
1. the great falling away has/ is happening
2. the "science, falsely so-called" has elevated a back slidden failed theologians wild conjectures about cells to "science" - and it is preached unceasingly, incessantly, unremittingly, unquestioningly. It's only problem being, it's perfectly wrong - yet, nothing, in two centuries has done more to shape your end of the world. [pun intended]

loved that comment the other day - everyone on the Titanic employed to be there was working for the White Star Line. And dissent wasn't company policy.

Anonymous Omophage June 03, 2014 8:50 AM  

There is also the fact that most of the children raised in an atheist home eventually become religious

Anonymous Obvious June 03, 2014 8:54 AM  

No. I read the columns. Anger ain't argumentation. If the blog owner can't be arsed to provide a link that he knows the location of, why the fuck would he think that anyone else would be arsed to find it? The burden of proof lies on the one making the claim.


We won't even go into the fact that if you actually go further into the Pew Forum report that the numbers don't support contention the blog owner is making.

Blogger The Deuce June 03, 2014 9:01 AM  

Luddite VanB:

Incidentally, this also seems to be the tenet of most other infectious diseases...funny how that is.

It's also the "tenet" of every species that isn't extinct.

Anonymous Omophage June 03, 2014 9:07 AM  

J Curtis; thanks for the link with actual studies that show the retention rate for atheists remaining unreligious is 50%. Kinda refutes the claim that it’s a fact that most atheist children become religious…

I’d still be mildly curious to see Vox’s “work” on the subject if anyone cares enough (i.e. more than me) to find a link.

Anonymous PhillipGeorge(c)2014 June 03, 2014 9:07 AM  

burden of proof ?

please look it up before you use it again.
ps. mathematics does "proof". eg. Pasteur didn't prove anything. It's just that a few billion reproducible demonstrations [tens of thousands of them daily done] have provided no conflict about the thesis.

Blogger The Deuce June 03, 2014 9:07 AM  

To the dumbasses demanding citations: Most of us here read the entry when VD posted on the study before, so we're already familiar with the fact that atheists have a low retention rate, and don't need to have the link posted again. Your deliberate attempt to keep yourselves ignorant of that fact by refusing to do a Google search on it doesn't constitute an argument against it.

Anonymous =/= June 03, 2014 9:09 AM  

Lud VanObiophage "If the blog owner can't be arsed to provide a link that he knows the location of, why the fuck would he think that anyone else would be arsed to find it? The burden of proof lies on the one making the claim."

As he told your other incarnation, so it applies to you as well. Want to see the source? Do your own digging - the blog owner owes you nothing, and knows you'd just try to disqualify the source anyways.

Anonymous Obvious June 03, 2014 9:10 AM  

It's a busy day so I'll just go ahead and post the relevant paragraph, and, I know you're not used to such things around here, a link to the source document.

The unaffiliated group provides a good example of the high degree of religious movement that has taken place in the U.S. Overall, 3.9% of the adult population reports being raised without any particular religious affiliation but later affiliating with a religious group. However, more than three times as many people (12.7% of the adult population overall) were raised in a particular faith but have since become unaffiliated with any religious group.

http://religions.pewforum.org/pdf/report-religious-landscape-study-chapter-2.pdf

Anonymous Oblivious June 03, 2014 9:13 AM  

USA = WORLD now!@!!!! because source documents

Blogger The Deuce June 03, 2014 9:14 AM  

Actually, Obvious, I expect that Vox is familiar with that very same source document: http://voxday.blogspot.com/2010/03/another-atheist-myth.html

Anonymous Luke June 03, 2014 9:16 AM  

J Curtis June 03, 2014 8:11 AM

"@ Homophage, this was as difficult as copying and pasting the words 'children raised in an atheist home eventually become religious' into a google search engine."

Why Aren’t Atheist Parents Raising Atheist Children?

Two minor thoughts on the graph in the above article:

1) The 76% retention rate claimed for American Jews likely doesn't take into account in any way the enormous exomarriage rates for nonOrthodox Jews. I read somewhere that around 40% of Reform Jews in America married nonJews, and the majority of their children (however many they had, likely not many being disproportionately liberal) did not identify with Judaism. That is, I expect much of how the retention rate is above 50% comes from the Orthodox, between their large families and low exomarriage rates.

2) Back in my atheist days, I once attended an actual minor atheist event. This was about 70 people having cookies and coffee in a rented room somewhere (in a suburb of Minneapolis in the late 1990s). Sex ratio was about 2.5:1 M/F. I had been married less than five years, and this came up in casual conversation with a man in his 50s. He lamented how few women explicitly identified as atheists, which had long severely crimped his relationship/marital prospects. Taking his experience as common, I would extrapolate that few women would openly admit to atheism, while living lives largely indistinguishable by behavior and motivations. (Reflexive instant white-hot hatred of the very idea of Biblically-commanded submission in marriage being a classic "walk the walk" detector, of course.)

Field direction, and all that.

Blogger Crowhill June 03, 2014 9:19 AM  

There are ideas that contain in themselves the seeds of their own destruction. Modern atheism seems to be one of them.

Anonymous Obvious June 03, 2014 9:22 AM  

I think my favorite part about J Curtis's link is that it contradicts the blog owner's point, but he didn't bother reading until the end of it to figure that out.

And to the person who thinks that I conflated the US with the world, you'll notice that I'm just following your Fearless Leader's glorious example.

The Deuce, yes. Blog owner does a very facile job of making the numbers say what he's aiming for there.

Anonymous Omophage June 03, 2014 9:34 AM  

http://voxday.blogspot.com/2010/03/another-atheist-myth.html

2010, huh? Vox didn’t update the above based on the 2012 data and studies, but still continues to operate under the assumption that his old conclusion are fact. Typical…

Blogger RandalThorn June 03, 2014 9:34 AM  

[I think my favorite part about J Curtis's link is that it contradicts the blog owner's point, but he didn't bother reading until the end of it to figure that out.]

I can't decide which one is the hammiest; your reading comprehension or your attempt at logic.

Anonymous Oblivious June 03, 2014 9:34 AM  

"The world could see a resurgence of Christianity" = USA, says the fucking tard.

You ever get sick of trolling your bullshit? Yes, I know I'm probably gonna cause you to commit suicide by exposing you like this... but it's probably inevitable.

Blogger The Deuce June 03, 2014 9:40 AM  

Luke:

Sex ratio was about 2.5:1 M/F. I had been married less than five years, and this came up in casual conversation with a man in his 50s. He lamented how few women explicitly identified as atheists, which had long severely crimped his relationship/marital prospects.

And most of their women look like men, or heavily-soiled dishrags. I wonder if that contributes to the atheist obsession with teh ghey.

OpenID simplytimothy June 03, 2014 9:41 AM  

Was it Hitler or Mao who said that if he had the children for 8 (?) years, that thereafter opponents could do as they wished with the children, that they'd always be his?

Jesuits: "Give me the child for his first seven years, and I’ll give you the man"

Anonymous PhillipGeorge(c)2014 June 03, 2014 9:42 AM  

VD, last post here this day,
there is a point learning to fly a plane where the instructors take you through recovery from stalls and spiral dives. In somewhat sobering undertone the instructor points out that if a spiral dive is allowed to continue too long, the dive becomes unrecoverable. With increasing spin and no change of power, disorientation is inevitable, Vne, possible air-frame failure, death.

The metaphor ]for politics is obvious: With increasing spin and no change of power or directional control, the dive has to end in a crash

you bailed, and I congratulate you on that.

Blogger The Deuce June 03, 2014 9:44 AM  

2010, huh? Vox didn’t update the above based on the 2012 data and studies, but still continues to operate under the assumption that his old conclusion are fact. Typical…

You mean, like the 2012 CARA study linked to here, showing a decline to 30% retention, instead of the already-pathetic 40% retention from the 2008 Pew data mentioned in VD's post, thus making your situation even more futile? And why do you think that's the only time VD's posted on it? That's just the first thing I found in his search engine.

Anonymous Sheila June 03, 2014 9:45 AM  

Not to detract from the "Christians reproduce and atheists don't" thread, but I'd be very interested in others' opinions here on just what sort of Christianity the third world might produce. My personal impressions/beliefs (from a number of years living abroad, as well as interaction with a large number of foreign born in the US) is that African/Caribbean Christianity is largely animist with a bit of Christian overlay. Of course, one could also hold up purported Negro Christianity in the United States, which doesn't seem to have the slightest impact on illegitimacy or family formation among the Negro community.

While I see numerous Asian-only churches here in my north Texas suburb, the vast majority of Asian drivers have Asian good-luck charms hanging from their mirrors, paint their front doors red, and generally follow Fung-Shui. I specifically recall a Korean co-worker when overseas whose wife was extraordinarily religious (i.e. overtly Christian), while he was only willing to tolerate her beliefs up to a point and violently and vocally concerned about her failing to produce a son. Yes, I'm well aware of the limited applicability of individual examples, but I'd also caution against the enthusiasms of those who've been missionaries and seeing what one wants to see.

Anonymous x June 03, 2014 9:51 AM  

" opinions here on just what sort of Christianity the third world might produce"?

Pentecostals
http://voxxi.com/2014/05/08/appeal-pentecostalism-us-hispanic/

Blogger Crowhill June 03, 2014 10:01 AM  

@Sheila, it seems to me there are two main concerns about the type of Christianity that is developing in the third world. The first is that it's not orthodox and includes lots of weird add-ons (animism or weird spiritualism). The second is that it's not the kind of intellectual system that can form a solid culture.

I think both concerns are over-blown. It's not as if European Christianity uniformly followed any set creed or that European believers were arm-chair theologians.

The big question in my mind is whether they will create a politically imaginative faith. Just because a belief system dominates the population doesn't mean it will dominate the culture or political system. For example, there are lots of Lutherans in America, but they don't seem to have much of an influence on the political system. In contrast, there are far fewer Episcopalians, but they have a large influence.

Anonymous GG June 03, 2014 10:05 AM  

"I'd be willing to bet my bottom dollar that the rate of infectious, STD's have a much higher incidence in never married, childless, atheists than in married religious couples with children."

Actually no, the highest rates of STD infection are now in our elderly, primarily those who were married and do not declare themselves atheists. Nobody really wants to know this bit of information, but there you go.

Anonymous VD June 03, 2014 10:11 AM  

Overall, 3.9% of the adult population reports being raised without any particular religious affiliation but later affiliating with a religious group. However, more than three times as many people (12.7% of the adult population overall) were raised in a particular faith but have since become unaffiliated with any religious group.

This just shows you're an idiot, Obvious, again. You see, there are more than 3.2x more theists than atheists. So, that means that the 3.9 percent of the total population represents a much worse retention rate for the atheist majority than the 12.7 percent of the total population that came from the theist majority. You really are stupid.

Blog owner does a very facile job of making the numbers say what he's aiming for there.

That's because I understand them correctly. You obviously don't.

Anonymous Starbuck June 03, 2014 10:19 AM  

This just shows you're an idiot, Obvious, again.

Wow... It's nice not to be the idiot for a change. Every other blog I go to, I am the idiot. Go figure...

Anonymous Starbuck June 03, 2014 10:21 AM  

This just shows you're an idiot, Obvious, again. You see, there are more than 3.2x more theists than atheists. So, that means that the 3.9 percent of the total population represents a much worse retention rate for the atheist majority than the 12.7 percent of the total population that came from the theist majority. You really are stupid.

Yea, I got that as well.. Seems to me that the "Church" produces many more atheists then the atheists can produce. Interesting, no?

Blogger Cogitans Iuvenis June 03, 2014 10:23 AM  

Not to detract from the "Christians reproduce and atheists don't" thread, but I'd be very interested in others' opinions here on just what sort of Christianity the third world might produce. My personal impressions/beliefs (from a number of years living abroad, as well as interaction with a large number of foreign born in the US) is that African/Caribbean Christianity is largely animist with a bit of Christian overlay. Of course, one could also hold up purported Negro Christianity in the United States, which doesn't seem to have the slightest impact on illegitimacy or family formation among the Negro community.

I can't speak for protestant denominations of Christianity but as a Catholic I am pretty confident when I say that I am not all that worried. The church has over 2,000 years of experience being introduced to pagan lands and transforming pagan oddities and rituals into something christian, I don't have any doubt that the church will do so again. I mean, if the church as able to convert my pagan Gaelic forebears, who resided at the very periphery of civilization at the time into stalwart members of the faith. Let us also not forget the Japanese Kirishitans that continued to practice their faith, albeit nihonized, for over 200 years persecuted and isolated from the rest of Christendom.

Anonymous Starbuck June 03, 2014 10:26 AM  

Awhile back I saw Nate say "The problem isn't unbelief, the problem is rebellion."

I remember being impressed because it sounded so right. It has stuck with me for a long time and I observed it as being so true time and time again. Since then I have read and re-read the Bible. This seems to be the prevailing theme of the Bible as well. I was impressed then Nate, and I am still impressed with that quote of yours. I have learned a lot from that for some reason.

Ok.. I'll stop bugging you folks...

Blogger Hanns Strudle extra gooey June 03, 2014 10:29 AM  

Church's don't produce atheists; pop culture and skull f@cking by ideological professors and teachers transformer church goers. Or, maybe rebels who like their sin and want to wallow in it without being reminded weekly about their filthy lifestyle choices.

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian, King of Aquilonia June 03, 2014 10:34 AM  


Was it Hitler or Mao who said that if he had the children for 8 (?) years, that thereafter opponents could do as they wished with the children, that they'd always be his?


“When an opponent declares, "I will not come over to your side," I calmly say, "Your child belongs to us already... What are you? You will pass on. Your descendants, however, now stand in the new camp. In a short time they will know nothing else but this new community.”
A. Hitler

Anonymous ThirdMonkey June 03, 2014 10:38 AM  

Cogitans, you obviously have not been to a predominantly Roman Catholic third-world country. The Roman Catholicism of Europe and America bears little resemblance to the pagan/anamistic catholicism practiced by those in Latin America.


Anonymous Luke June 03, 2014 10:40 AM  

Sheila June 03, 2014 9:45 AM

"Not to detract from the "Christians reproduce and atheists don't" thread, but I'd be very interested in others' opinions here on just what sort of Christianity the third world might produce. My personal impressions/beliefs (from a number of years living abroad, as well as interaction with a large number of foreign born in the US) is that African/Caribbean Christianity is largely animist with a bit of Christian overlay."

I have read similar conclusions by observers. For example, the Catholic commandment for their clergy to neither marry nor have sex supposedly commonly gets translated in Africa for black priests to not marry, but still have plenty of sex. Better faithful overtly-permitted marriage than that IMO.

Blogger Desiderius June 03, 2014 10:56 AM  

The "we'll outbreed them" argument has proven to produce pretty unimpressive results, i.e. legions of Churchians who have abandoned the faith of their Fathers and the civilization it produced without even knowing it. It serves above all as an excuse for disengagement and cowardice.

Blogger Desiderius June 03, 2014 10:56 AM  

simplytimothy,

"Jesuits: 'Give me the child for his first seven years, and I’ll give you the man'"

Voltaire was raised by Jesuits. The Jesuits themselves are now pretty much Prog to a man.

The question is, what comes after Prog?

Anonymous TruthSux June 03, 2014 11:00 AM  

When the Pope goes all in with teh gay... marrying gays, supporting sexuality-active homo priests, etc. -- combined with the Holy Father's new support of globalist banksters' version of "socialism" -- then I predict you'll suddenly see a huge upswing in so-called "Christianity" along with wide-scale adoption of this religion by our elite Bilderburgian betters.

Blogger Cogitans Iuvenis June 03, 2014 11:02 AM  

Cogitans, you obviously have not been to a predominantly Roman Catholic third-world country. The Roman Catholicism of Europe and America bears little resemblance to the pagan/anamistic catholicism practiced by those in Latin America.

First off, yes I have, despite my relative youth I am pretty well traveled. Secondly, you are missing my point which is the church operates on a time frame far longer than either you or I. Do you honestly think that the Celts, Nordics, or other barbarians from the days of antiquity who converted practiced orthodox Christianity as you see them practice it today? Most assuredly not. Those pagan practices will either be christianized, for example all saints day, or be purged over time.

OpenID cailcorishev June 03, 2014 11:13 AM  

I can't speak for protestant denominations of Christianity but as a Catholic I am pretty confident when I say that I am not all that worried.

Count me as a worried Catholic. Not that the Church will disappear, of course, but I think the people who are looking to the third world for the Church's near future, expecting Africans or Asians to make up for our empty pews, are going to be disappointed. Yes, the Church has done a good job of converting pagans at times in the past, but that was a much more muscular Church that understood its mission to be to convert the unbelievers, not to compromise with them. (And even then, in Mexico for instance, their efforts didn't get much traction until Our Lady appeared at Guadalupe. That was the real turning point, and even then they never lost some of their old cults, which the charismatic stuff is now playing to.)

Today's ecumenism-happy Church, and especially the watered-down liturgy that will be eagerly translated into the local vernacular and dressed up with topless native dancers or whatever, don't seem likely to have the same effect. As skin-deep as Catholicism is in the modern world, it's unlikely that we'll be able to pass it on very deeply to other peoples. 'A bit of Christian overlay" is pretty much what we have now, and what they're likely to have at best.

As a best-case scenario, it will take hundreds of years to convert them, and it won't really start until the Church fixes her own internal problems and gets back to a traditional Christianity that's not afraid to say it is the one true faith.

In the short term, any renewal looks like it will have to come from the US and a few places in Europe like Poland and even France. It won't be about numbers, but about restoring tradition, throwing as much Boomer theology as possible in the trash, and rebuilding smaller and stronger.

OpenID simplytimothy June 03, 2014 11:22 AM  

The question is, what comes after Prog?

'ressive'


ducks.

(:


Seriously, though, what are you asking? Your question is not clear.

thx.

Anonymous Will Best June 03, 2014 11:31 AM  

I think both concerns are over-blown. It's not as if European Christianity uniformly followed any set creed or that European believers were arm-chair theologians.

I won't speak to the other Black Christians, but much of my contact with urban black Christians in Chicago leads me to believe that they are Christian in name only. The Rev. Wright victim sermons are not atypical, and many of the pastors are neck deep in the Chicago machine. That rot trickles down into the congregations unfortunately.

Blogger James Dixon June 03, 2014 11:34 AM  

> As a best-case scenario, it will take hundreds of years to convert them, and it won't really start until the Church fixes her own internal problems and gets back to a traditional Christianity that's not afraid to say it is the one true faith.

Of course. But it's His Church, not ours, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. It's in good hands.

Anonymous Rolf June 03, 2014 11:40 AM  

If people turn from atheism (which is a rather new and small percentage of the population in the global scheme of things, the vast majority being some flavor of paganism, animism, Hinduism, Christian, Judaism, or other belief in some sort of divine spirits/god/s), what will they turn to? Most people being reasonably practical when it comes to identifying what group is most likely to kill them before the sun sets, and desiring to see said sunset, many will convert at sword-point so something other than a peaceful Christianity. Islam greatest killing machine in history?
The next couple of decades might be very interesting....

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey June 03, 2014 11:45 AM  

I don't think the rise of religious Africans will be good for the world.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents June 03, 2014 12:00 PM  

Those pagan practices will either be christianized, for example all saints day, or be purged over time.

I guess you have never been to Mexico on November 1, aka "Dio de las Muertos", then. It's not the same All Saints Day you may be thinking of. Nor have you seen the most recent addition to Mexican theology, "Santa Muerte", or Saint Death.

Nike Wade's book, read with care, informs me that behavior is at least partly genetic. That is a testable proposition and in fact anyone who has a sibling, parents, grandparents, children, grandchildren, etc. can and does test it regularly. Culture arises from the behavior of large numbers of people. Therefore, culture is at least partly genetic.

The Aztecs died off a long time ago. So why does Mexico have this interesting obsession with death, hm? And what does this suggest for the future?

Anonymous Alexander June 03, 2014 12:02 PM  

Rolf,

I think the issue there is that once Islam takes over in a place, they have a large incentive to keep a great stock of dhimmis around to tax farm. It's not so easy to say you want to join the guy who might kill you when he'd rather keep you around as the 'other'.

That, and to be fair to Islam, what would you want with a wishy-washy, effeminate, athiest-turned-"Muslim" who sold out his own country and countrymen first out of contempt for them, and then out of fear for his own life?

Anonymous hausfrau June 03, 2014 12:44 PM  

"We atheists sometimes congratulate ourselves that the incidence of religious belief is going down. But religious people have more children. Where are people having the most children? It’s in the tropics and in Africa. It’s clearly the case that the future will involve an increase in religious populations and a decrease in scepticism."

This is probably a major reason former KGB Putin is so eager to support the Orthodox Church. Better to be religious than leave a vacuum filled by Chinese communists and Muslims.

OpenID cailcorishev June 03, 2014 1:02 PM  

But it's His Church, not ours, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. It's in good hands.

Agreed. As I said, I have no fears about the long-term health of the Church. I'm responding to a common theme that I hear, which goes something like this:

Guy A: Wow, Catholics are really sucking the bag these days.
Guy B: Nonsense! It only seems that way because you're looking at the West. The Church is growing by leaps and bounds in the Third World, and is better off than ever!

To which I respond:

1) Maybe she is, maybe she isn't, but probably not as well as we're being told.
2) So what? We're supposed to be fine with letting formerly Christian countries decline into paganism and apostasy as long as they're being replaced in the head-count?

Anonymous typical Papist neoractionary turd June 03, 2014 1:46 PM  

I blame John Calvin, and all Protestants.

Anonymous SirHamster June 03, 2014 2:39 PM  


While I see numerous Asian-only churches here in my north Texas suburb, the vast majority of Asian drivers have Asian good-luck charms hanging from their mirrors, paint their front doors red, and generally follow Fung-Shui.


I doubt the Asian drivers with good luck charms are the ones attending said Asian churches. Most Asians (60~%) are not Christians. Link.

It also depends on country, so you might be comparing Chinese drivers (50+% non-religious) against Korean churches (majority Protestant). That's not a good indication of how Korean-American Christians are practicing their faith.

Anonymous SirHamster June 03, 2014 2:40 PM  

Second try on link.

Anonymous SirHamster June 03, 2014 2:41 PM  

Bah, I fail at tagging.

http://www.pewforum.org/2012/07/19/asian-americans-a-mosaic-of-faiths-overview/

Anonymous Lordy June 03, 2014 4:07 PM  

"They will learn better soon enough. Both history and the Bible are very clear concerning the eventual fate of such societies."

The religious fanatics, the preachers, the nutballs,the bloggers and the Bible. We keep hearing prediction after prediction after prediction of some future event that will demonstrate to all those on earth the mighty power of this particular god.

What do we get? Centuries of nothing, centuries of revised predictions and more head shaking from the onlookers.

You will forgive us if we stop taking the predictions serious and go back to hunting unicorns and Bigfoot.

Blogger Desiderius June 03, 2014 4:08 PM  

SirHamster,

"That's not a good indication of how Korean-American Christians are practicing their faith"

There are now four times as many Korean Presbyterians as American ones. In general, they're less infected by the modernist rot, but that could just be that they're a generation or two behind in the process.

I had the honor to get to know the son of a man who was instrumental in their evangelization. Finest man I ever met.

Anonymous wEz June 03, 2014 4:10 PM  

Very ironic that the atheists only objective purpose in life is reproduction and they cant even get that right due to their selfish, hedonistic ways. Parasites till the very end. Vile and self-serving are the vast majority.

Anonymous Sheila June 03, 2014 4:14 PM  

Cogitans raises an interesting point, re the Church's ability to Christianize his Gaelic forbears. When my younger son and I were reading all of Rosemary Sutcliff's books, a number of them discussed early Scandinavian settlers to England (post Romans) doing something she termed "prime signing." If my quick search on the internet a while back was accurate, this was a sort of in name only, I'm sort of kinda considering Christianity, while retaining pagan worship.

Does anyone know about this? How long did it take for Christianity (which was essentially Catholicism back then) to fully convert the Danes, Swedes, Germans, etc? Also, other than certain holiday traditions (Christmas comes to mind, of course, particularly certain Swedish cookies/foods and German Christmas trees), what sort of culturally-specific practices did each country add to what is now European/American Christianity? My history of the area, religiously speaking, is weak. Back when Sweden was fighting Russia, I realize there was a religious component, but that was more western Christians versus eastern Christians, was it not? I don't really know much about Scandinavia pre protestantism.

Point to all of this, of course, is for me and other readers to consider how much of what we consider Christianity is biblical, and how much is cultural, and how much of the cultural can there be before it distorts and overwhelms the biblical (which is what I see/fear in Asia, Mexico, and Africa).

Anonymous Lordy June 03, 2014 4:17 PM  

"Very ironic that the atheists only objective purpose ..."

Since when is an objective purpose any more valuable than a subjective purpose? More importantly, what possible objective purpose could be claimed by a person with the slightest intelligence?

Blogger Lud VanB June 03, 2014 4:21 PM  

"Church's don't produce atheists; pop culture and skull f@cking by ideological professors and teachers transformer church goers. Or, maybe rebels who like their sin and want to wallow in it without being reminded weekly about their filthy lifestyle choices."

examining the claims of religions objectively is what produces atheists.

Anonymous A.B. Prosper June 03, 2014 5:14 PM  

This is a tricky issues methinks. I agree that the future belong to those who show up for it. Still it strikes me that marks got the opiate part basically right, the most religious countries are generally the poorest with the US as a slight outlier though we are socially really Latin American in many ways rather than European.

Still a Christian future dominated by Africans and Mestizos with a smattering of White evangelicals, Mormons and poverty stricken Europeans like the Greeks and Russians will not be the Christendom that our host and others are longing for. I don't think most will like it very much. The stamp the Africans and Mestizos or even the Russians (if they survive) will put on the faith will not be home for Western and Northern Euro Folk.

Now some kind of White ethnocentric Christianity like the older forms of Mormonism or some of the less pleasant Christian sects might be the way to go. Alternately it might be very good for Europe to embrace its pre Christian traditions along with Ethnonationalism and either create a hybrid or a just go full Pagan. Asatru for the win . This kind of of effort will at least stem the ethno- masochism so many Christians embrace when they import the 3rd world en mass.

A last bit, I am reminded of a line from House "10cc of Atheism stat" if strong religion has a genetic component, future societies may decide to cure that. It starting to require a lot less people and tech to do this sort of thing these days.

OpenID thetroll June 03, 2014 5:24 PM  

> if a spiral dive is allowed to continue too long, the dive becomes unrecoverable.

No actually, there is a method of recovery; trick is to to hit a tree branch with just the right resistance to snap you down to a flyable angle of attack and then obligingly break to let you continue on unimpeded. Pulled that off with my paraglider once showboating just a little too hard for the crowd. Already had a pretty solid reputation as being so careless of my safety as to be nearly indistinguishable from the actively suicidal, but that incident pretty much cemented it for life.

Blogger Alex Curylo June 03, 2014 5:27 PM  

> just go full Pagan. Asatru for the win

Yep, always struck me that Asatru's Nine Noble Virtues make an absolutely wonderful set of principles to live your life by even if you're a strong agnostic like myself.

Blogger CM June 03, 2014 5:40 PM  

examining the claims of religions objectively is what produces atheists

Funny... that's what produces Christians...

C.S. Lewis, John Wright, Ravi Zacharias. I'm sure the other readers here could point out more if they wanted to.

Blogger James Dixon June 03, 2014 6:04 PM  

> You will forgive us if we stop taking the predictions serious and go back to hunting unicorns and Bigfoot.

Of course we'll forgive you. We know you can't help yourself.

> Since when is an objective purpose any more valuable than a subjective purpose?

Where did he state it was?

> More importantly, what possible objective purpose could be claimed by a person with the slightest intelligence?

I think Lud just gave you an answer you would accept.

Anonymous VD June 03, 2014 6:50 PM  

examining the claims of religions objectively is what produces atheists.

You're full of shit, Lud. The average atheist becomes an atheist when he's a teenager. Which is to say, when he is hormone-laden, irrational, and his brain hasn't finished developing. Furthermore, the complete ignorance of religion you and most atheists betray make it obvious that you haven't considered those religious claims at all, let alone objectively.

Blatantly lying about this sort of thing only makes you look stupid and desperate. It's not going to convince anyone. Do you still not realize that?

Anonymous A.B. Prosper June 03, 2014 7:11 PM  

Actually Lud and our host are both right. Examining the claims of religion can either create atheists or agnostics (usually the later) or converts. Its depends on the individual.

And also Vox, claiming lack of examination of religious claims on the parts of Atheists is awfully close to the Leftist educational/censorship model, they haven't come around because they haven't go the right information.

Its perfectly possible to read the Bible or Koran or any other book and think the lot of it is rubbish.

That said anyone claiming Atheism, heck the whole movement would benefit from a course of religious studies. Its best to understand something before critiquing or going on about it.

Blogger Tommy Hass June 03, 2014 7:33 PM  

"A more important factor is that times of wealth and peace have always been a counter-indicator of religious belief."

This is one of the strongest arguments against "rich countries are more athetist, therefore atheism is more likely to be true".

Although I never knew that so many children of atheists end up religious. Source?

Anonymous Oblivious June 03, 2014 7:43 PM  

Lud is a question-begging fuck. That is objective fact.

Blogger James Dixon June 03, 2014 8:10 PM  

> And also Vox, claiming lack of examination of religious claims on the parts of Atheists is awfully close to the Leftist educational/censorship model, they haven't come around because they haven't go the right information.

Why? They demonstrate their lack of knowledge every day.

And Vox isn't claiming that they would come around with the right information. IMO, it's far more likely they'll simply deny the information's validity. Simply look at the number of people on this blog alone who have demanded miracles as proof of God's existence and then denied the miracles when given numerous examples of same.

Anonymous VD June 03, 2014 9:04 PM  

And also Vox, claiming lack of examination of religious claims on the parts of Atheists is awfully close to the Leftist educational/censorship model, they haven't come around because they haven't go the right information.

Totally false. I was disproving a specific claim made by Lud. I said nothing at all about what would make them come around or not. Whatever the various reasons for their atheism might be, it clearly isn't an objective review of religious claims.

Blogger Lud VanB June 03, 2014 9:29 PM  

"Funny... that's what produces Christians..."

no...Christians are being produced in majority by their Christian parents telling them to be Christians as they grow up...this is in fact. This is the point that was actually being made by this whole posting...weren't you paying attention?


"C.S. Lewis, John Wright, Ravi Zacharias. I'm sure the other readers here could point out more if they wanted to."

all of whom are known for making completely subjective arguments in defense of their faith born of confirmation bias

Blogger Lud VanB June 03, 2014 9:40 PM  

"You're full of shit, Lud. The average atheist becomes an atheist when he's a teenager. Which is to say, when he is hormone-laden, irrational, and his brain hasn't finished developing. Furthermore, the complete ignorance of religion you and most atheists betray make it obvious that you haven't considered those religious claims at all, let alone objectively.

Blatantly lying about this sort of thing only makes you look stupid and desperate. It's not going to convince anyone. Do you still not realize that?"

I would argue that those teenagers you are talking about are not really atheists now are they if as you suggest they basically embrace atheism as though it was a fad or because someone they look up to told them it was the "cool" thing to be. Having a profound and well grounded philosophical perspective on life does tend to require that one actually lives an appreciable amount of life. Which would mean that there are probably a lot less actual atheists. Good news for the religionists then, is it not? Of course it also means that what's good for the goose is good for the gander, meaning that there is also probably a lot...lot less actual Christians.

Blogger CM June 03, 2014 9:43 PM  

all of whom are known for making completely subjective arguments in defense of their faith born of confirmation bias

I am paying attention and I was commenting specifically on YOUR comment. Perhaps I could have worded it better...

Objectively looking at religious claims turned great thinkers into christians... not away from it.

As to the latest comment, especially knowing Ravi's testimony, they found internal consistency in christian claims that don't exist in other faiths or even in atheism.

Just about Every single atheism post on this blog points that very fact out. If you looked at it objectively (instead of clinging to it out of stubborn pride), you'd see that.

I don't care if you choose to continue believing in nothing after that intellectual exercise, but you should try it sometime.

Anonymous =/= June 03, 2014 11:24 PM  

Lud VanTroll
"I would argue that those teenagers you are talking about are not really atheists "
No True Atheist...compelling.

Anonymous A.B. Prosper June 04, 2014 12:04 AM  

And also Vox, claiming lack of examination of religious claims on the parts of Atheists is awfully close to the Leftist educational/censorship model, they haven't come around because they haven't go the right information.

Totally false. I was disproving a specific claim made by Lud. I said nothing at all about what would make them come around or not. Whatever the various reasons for their atheism might be, it clearly isn't an objective review of religious claims.

True enough about the Lud come around or not though my point was that your statement about "lack of objective review" sounded similar in theme to me. Of course that is my opinion

That said I wasn't very clear in my post and for that I apologize. As it happens I agree with you on the lack of education many Atheists have on religious matters . I suspect many Christians could use a little study as well.

As far as the topic at hand, I don't think we are going to be able to predict what the future looks like faith wise. It might belong to Afro Christians, Hindus and declining Islamics but not to Western or Mestizo forms outside of Guatemala (every Latin American society is joining in the birth rate decline) of the faith. There will certainly be Western Christians, Evangelical, Amish and Mormon variations among but they may certainly not have much sway

Western Europe too may stay post Christian.. Eastern Europe won't but again few babies and those societies don't have highly fertile religious splinter sects or any real chance of a birth rate increase.

What will be gone is the economic engine of Christendom, none of the heavily Christian societies have the unique traits to breed prosperity. The ones that did are basically goners and while they might survive in ethnic forms (one can only hope) they probably won't be Christian.
A few splinter groups might but functionally Christendom wont' be measurably better off in worldly matters than anyone else. That is going to make for a very different world.

Anonymous Eric Ashley June 04, 2014 2:42 AM  

Explains why RINOs, aka rich big business types, hate the socons........The rich and fat seldom believe they have any need for God, and they deeply resent any divinely inspired restrictions on their descent into decadence

Anonymous CK June 04, 2014 4:26 AM  

There's a movie called Frequencies that explains Vox's low empathy and concurrent high IQ. "The higher the frequency the lower the empathy".

Blogger James Dixon June 04, 2014 9:15 AM  

> There's a movie called Frequencies that explains Vox's low empathy and concurrent high IQ.

Vox scores higher on empathy tests than you seem to think.

Blogger Lud VanB June 04, 2014 10:59 AM  

"I would argue that those teenagers you are talking about are not really atheists "
No True Atheist...compelling. "

why did you truncate my statement? is it possible that you are trying to paint me as making a no true Scotsman fallacy when I was in fact pointing out that it was Vox himself who is arguing that teenagers don't tend to arrive at their life perspective through a well thought out process?

Blogger Lud VanB June 04, 2014 11:19 AM  

"As to the latest comment, especially knowing Ravi's testimony, they found internal consistency in christian claims that don't exist in other faiths or even in atheism."

See...this is just about the least convincing argument in favor of your position that you can be making because you are not telling me exactly which of Ravi's statements enunciates this superior consistency over all other religious creeds or atheism. You are basically suggesting I either take this Ravi person's word for it or that I go look through everything he's ever said in the hope I'll somehow guess correctly what you meant by that when I see it.

"Just about Every single atheism post on this blog points that very fact out. If you looked at it objectively (instead of clinging to it out of stubborn pride), you'd see that."

I don't have any pride to satisfy in this matter and I challenge you to either substantiate your accusation or to please withdraw it. incidentally, what you just said there can also very easily mistaken for confirmation bias.

"I don't care if you choose to continue believing in nothing after that intellectual exercise, but you should try it sometime."

And there we come to the crux of the matter...the apologetic's favorite foil...the completely bogus claim that belief is a choice. It is not. Belief is a reaction to a given proposition. I tell you something and based on the sum of your experiences, you either accept the proposition or you don't and any action taken afterwards directly results from that reflexive reaction.

Blogger James Dixon June 04, 2014 1:16 PM  

> ...the completely bogus claim that belief is a choice. It is not. Belief is a reaction to a given proposition.

And yet people can change their minds.

If you honestly think that all belief is entirely reflexive it explains a great deal about you and your positions.

Blogger Lud VanB June 04, 2014 6:41 PM  

"And yet people can change their minds."

no arguments there but it does not happen by flipping a switch, so to speak and deciding at 5 07 pm eastern time that you believe something completely different than what you believed your whole adult life up to that point. Its usually a gradual process that comes as a result of further reflection or a more immediate one that results from the incorporation of new information. Either way, its still a reaction to changing circumstances.

"If you honestly think that all belief is entirely reflexive it explains a great deal about you and your positions."


What it says about me is that I understand what belief actually is. If you...believe differently...why not try this little exercise. for the next five minutes, believe that you re a completely different person than who you really are. By that I don't mean to merely imagine what I might be like to be someone else but to actually become convinced for 5 minutes that you are someone else. If belief is a choice, you should be able to do that, right?

Anonymous lurker June 05, 2014 1:12 AM  

Lud is a big Dud.

Anonymous Toby Temple June 05, 2014 3:50 AM  

no arguments there but it does not happen by flipping a switch, so to speak and deciding at 5 07 pm eastern time that you believe something completely different than what you believed your whole adult life up to that point. Its usually a gradual process that comes as a result of further reflection or a more immediate one that results from the incorporation of new information. Either way, its still a reaction to changing circumstances.

Wrong. A reaction is never a gradual process. It is something sudden and immediate. It is something that you cannot control.

Blogger James Dixon June 05, 2014 11:12 AM  

> What it says about me is that I understand what belief actually is

Well, it says you think you do. Others can decide for themselves whether you actually do or not.

Blogger Steve Sailer June 05, 2014 7:03 PM  

The current population growth of the Amish in America is astonishing.

Anonymous Shut Up, Toby June 05, 2014 7:20 PM  

"Wrong. A reaction is never a gradual process."

The mechanochemical formation of ZnS from a mixture of Zn and S powders turns into a self-propagating thermal reaction after 30 min of milling. A similar “explosion” occurs when Sn and S are milled for about the same time to form SnS2. However, the ignition time is longer or the reaction is gradual in mixtures of the two systems.

Anonymous Toby Temple June 06, 2014 3:57 AM  


A rearrangement of the atoms or molecules of two or more substances that come into contact with each other, resulting in the formation of one or more new substances. Chemical reactions are caused by electrons of one substance interacting with those of another. The reaction of an acid with a base, for example, results in the creation of a salt and water. Some, but not all, reactions can be reversed.

So reactions are always about rearrangement of atoms or molecultes of 2 or more substances when conversations involve the word "reactions".

Aspie gonna aspie.

Anonymous Shut Up, Toby June 06, 2014 11:33 PM  

So, rather than address the fact that reactions can be gradual, Toby goes on some tangent. Dude, you're clueless.

Here is another example in which a reaction can be gradual--Anaphylaxis is a sudden allergic reaction that can be life threatening. Symptoms may be mild to start, but they become severe in minutes, or even seconds. Occasionally, the symptoms develop gradually over 24 hours. The more quickly the symptoms begin, the more likely the reaction is to be severe.

Blogger pterodaktilis December 10, 2014 1:57 PM  

@A.B. Prosper "anyone claiming Atheism, heck the whole movement would benefit from a course of religious studies. Its best to understand something before critiquing or going on about it."
@VD "the complete ignorance of religion you and most atheists betray make it obvious that you haven't considered those religious claims at all, let alone objectively."

Actually, atheists in the US are among the religious groups who know religion the best: http://www.pewforum.org/2010/09/28/u-s-religious-knowledge-survey/ "Atheists and agnostics, Jews and Mormons are among the highest-scoring groups on a new survey of religious knowledge, outperforming evangelical Protestants, mainline Protestants and Catholics on questions about the core teachings, history and leading figures of major world religions."

You can try it yourself: http://www.pewforum.org/quiz/u-s-religious-knowledge/

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