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Wednesday, July 30, 2014

Is POTUS Bibi's bitch?

The Israeli media apparently has cause to think so:
Israel’s Channel 1 decided to publish a Hebrew transcript of a portion of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and US President Barack Obama’s telephone conversation which took place on Sunday, in which Obama was insistent that Israel unilaterally halt all military activities in the Gaza Strip. As is quite clear by now, Israel rejected, and the bloodshed continued. The transcript, as shown by the Times of Israel was as follows:
The following is an English translation of the Hebrew account of the talk given in the report:

Barack Obama: I demand that Israel agrees to an immediate, unilateral ceasefire and halt all offensive activities, in particular airstrikes.

Benjamin Netanyahu: And what will Israel receive in exchange for a ceasefire?

BO: I believe that Hamas will cease its rocket fire — silence will be met with silence.

BN: Hamas broke all five previous ceasefires. It’s a terrorist organization dedicated to the destruction of Israel.

BO: I repeat and expect Israel to stop all its military activities unilaterally. The pictures of destruction in Gaza distance the world from Israel’s position.

BN: Kerry’s proposal was completely unrealistic and gives Hamas military and diplomatic advantages.

BO: Within a week of the end of Israel’s military activities, Qatar and Turkey will begin negotiations with Hamas based on the 2012 understandings, including Israel’s commitment to removing the siege and restrictions on Gaza.

BN: Qatar and Turkey are the biggest supporters of Hamas. It’s impossible to rely on them to be fair mediators.

BO: I trust Qatar and Turkey. Israel is not in the position that it can choose its mediators.

BN: I protest because Hamas can continue to launch rockets and use tunnels for terror attacks –

BO: (interrupting Netanyahu) The ball’s in Israel’s court, and it must end all its military activities.
One can quickly see why the US would quickly disavow any credibility of this report: after all it wouldn't look very good for the leader of the free world if the leader of another state, one which on top of it all is reliant on the former for continued military and economic support, flat out rejected what amounted to a demand from the US. As expected the denial was prompt with the US administration calling the quotations "fabrications", "shocking", and "disappointing"

It took mere minutes for the National Security Council to deny the transcript was even remotely accurate:
We have seen reports of an alleged POTUS-Netanyahu transcript; neither reports nor alleged transcript bear any resemblance to reality 1/2
    — @NSCPress (@NSCPress) July 29, 2014

Shocking and disappointing someone would sink to misrepresenting a pvt convo between POTUS and PM in fabrications to Israeli press 2/2
    — @NSCPress (@NSCPress) July 29, 2014
Sure enough, it wouldn't look good if only the US denied so Netanyahu had to step in, which he did:

The Prime Minister’s Office says in a statement that the Channel 1 report is false, using precisely the same words as the White House.

“We have seen these reports, and neither the reports nor the alleged transcript bear any resemblance to reality. It’s shocking and disappointing that someone would sink to misrepresenting a private conversation between the President and the Prime Minister in fabrications to the Israeli press,” the PMO says.

Despite the denials, Israel's Channel 1 refused to retract the leaked statement. Worse, it revealed the source of the leak as a "senior American official."

Despite rejections by American and Israeli officials, Channel 1?s Or Nahari insists that the transcript leaked to him by a “senior American official” is authentic, but acknowledges that the quotes he published were merely an excerpt from a long conversation.
It's easy for the administration to prove otherwise. Just release the recording of the conversation. Unless and until they do, they can't simply claim that it is false and expect anyone to take their word for it. On the one hand, it sounds to me as if a "senior American official" is not at all pleased with Obama backing down to Netanyahu. On the other hand, the language is awfully stilted, which lends credence to the idea that it might be a fake meant to lend cover to Israel backing down sooner rather than later or get back at the Obama administration for Secretary of State Kerry's performance.

In any event, Israel may as well stop its latest adventure in Gaza as the IDF is already rightly expressing its frustration with Netanyahu's political dithering. From Debka:
"Senior IDF officer to government: The troops must go forward or quit."
At this point, they should simply end the military operations. As per 4GW doctrine, they hit too soft and too slow. The IDF is saying go big or go home, but proceeding from this point will likely do more harm than good since Israel has no intention of removing the Palestinians from Gaza and settling it, thereby rendering the entire exercise pointless beyond the short term. At the moment, it appears to have been an exercise chiefly driven by domestic political pressure.

Blowing up a few tunnels and capturing a few rockets wasn't worth the price of the additional global contempt that resulted from being caught on camera killing women and children. So, it's just another one step forward, two steps back in the usual Middle East dance.

And as for the State Department's Jen Psaki saying the leak is a "severe violation of a private discussion", she might want to recall that she works for an administration that has the NSA spying on every conversation and email exchange in America.

Labels: ,

99 Comments:

Anonymous Asatru Heathen July 30, 2014 4:50 AM  

For what it's worth, the stilted language could well be a function of having be translated from English into Hebrew and back again.

Blogger Unknown July 30, 2014 5:08 AM  

Here's the deal...the days when Jews marched quietly to the death camps are over.

Jews fight back.

Try to kill Jews, and you will be destroyed.

Learn it. Know it. Live it. Bitches.

Anonymous Luke July 30, 2014 5:17 AM  

Shooting Muzzies when needed and earning a living are only two legs of the Israeli national survival stool. Having enough children to exceed replacement rate is the third. As only the Orthodox Jews (in or out of Israel AFAIK) manage that, they're arguably the only Jewish Israelis fit to survive, since they're the only ones inclined to show up for the future.

Anonymous Anti-Democracy Activist July 30, 2014 5:19 AM  

"Barack Obama: I demand that Israel agrees to an immediate, unilateral ceasefire and halt all offensive activities, in particular airstrikes.

Benjamin Netanyahu: And what will Israel receive in exchange for a ceasefire?


Proper response:

"What you will receive is your continued existence, you impudent piece of shit. Your country's survival hangs on my country's continued willingness to provide money, weapons, and political cover for what you do. Therefore, you will do what I fucking tell you, and you will say 'Yes, sir' when I do. You seem to have some illusion about who is the hegemon and who is the satrap here. If you say one more word out of line, I will remind you of who is who, and will do so in a way that you will never forget. Now, I'm going to tell you what you're going to do next, so take notes. When we're done, you will do as you're told, and in short order, or you're fucking screwed."

Seriously, it's like nobody around here knows how to run an empire anymore.

Blogger Unknown July 30, 2014 5:26 AM  

@Anti-Democracy Activist

No one capable of giving the "proper response" has been electable since the early 20th century.

Anonymous VD July 30, 2014 5:38 AM  

Try to kill Jews, and you will be destroyed. Learn it. Know it. Live it. Bitches.

It's nice that you're feeling chuffed and all, Jonny, but beating up on the occasional Arab army isn't exactly indicative of a global power. The IDF has already lost 53 fatalities in taking a few neighborhoods from half-armed Palestinian teenagers hiding in tunnels. It's not winning any wars against any first- or second-class military.

By contrast the Germans killed, what was it, six million or so? While simultaneously engaged with fighting 11 million Soviet troops on the Eastern Front and 4.8 million French, British, and American troops on the Western Front. And, they were the losers.

So, be thankful you're at war with Arabs and not Afghans or Germans or Americans and keep a sense of perspective.

Anonymous VD July 30, 2014 5:40 AM  

As only the Orthodox Jews (in or out of Israel AFAIK) manage that, they're arguably the only Jewish Israelis fit to survive, since they're the only ones inclined to show up for the future.

Sam Scott has already explained that the demographic trend you're describing is out of date. I think Israel is demographically fine for now, especially considering that it will likely be buttressed by another wave of European Jewry soon.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus July 30, 2014 5:47 AM  

Anti-Democracy Activist, you're forgetting who is master and who obeys.

Who pays tribute to whom? Who, since the USS Liberty incident of 1967 at latest, kills whom with impunity? Who has a dominating minority in whose state? (If you don't remember whose influence is behind 85% of the changes in America, Joe Biden knows.) Who controls whose media, money, laws and politics? Can the American President get dozens of ovations from the Israeli legislature for scolding the Prime Minister of Israel, or is it the other way around? (Barack Obama would certainly still remember the answer to that one.)

Master commands and Blaster obeys.

Anonymous Roundtine July 30, 2014 5:54 AM  

Bibi is just the bored kid in class who liked to shoot spitballs at the blackboard.

Anonymous Big Bill July 30, 2014 6:00 AM  

The phone conversation was a pretty desperate move by Bibi to shore up domestic support. If it truly was a phone tap of a PM-to-President conversation in Israel, then heads will roll in Israel. They won't.

I expect the translation was flawed, too. There is no way that Obama would "demand" anything in a private conversation with the PM of Israel.

Anonymous YIH July 30, 2014 6:04 AM  

Long before 'Bibi':
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Nickel_Grass
On October 8, Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir authorized the assembly of thirteen 20-kiloton nuclear warheads on Jericho missiles and F-4s, which were prepared for action against Syrian and Egyptian targets;[3] their preparation was made easily detectable, likely as a signal to the United States.[4] Kissinger learned of this threatening nuclear escalation on the morning of 9 October. On that same day, Meir issued a personal appeal for military assistance, which European nations declined. U.S. President Richard Nixon, however, ordered the commencement of Operation Nickel Grass, to replace all of Israel's materiel losses.[5]

Anonymous meh July 30, 2014 6:05 AM  

Proper response:

"What you will receive is your continued existence, you impudent piece of shit. Your country's survival hangs on my country's continued willingness to provide money, weapons, and political cover for what you do. Therefore, you will do what I fucking tell you, and you will say 'Yes, sir' when I do. You seem to have some illusion about who is the hegemon and who is the satrap here. If you say one more word out of line, I will remind you of who is who, and will do so in a way that you will never forget. Now, I'm going to tell you what you're going to do next, so take notes. When we're done, you will do as you're told, and in short order, or you're fucking screwed."

Seriously, it's like nobody around here knows how to run an empire anymore.


Well, that's a nice peek at an alternate universe, but here in the real world, the actual power relations run in the opposite direction. We don't finance Israel in order to control it; we finance Israel because we have lost control of our country to an alien minority. I doubt we have had a president who wasn't beholden to this minority since Taft, at the latest. The idea of Obama ordering Netanyahu around is frankly bizarre. Obama is not free to act as he chooses; he works for Netanyahu (indirectly) and others; he does not work for himself or for (lol) the American people. He does not run an empire in the sense that we are used to using that word. America is a weird sort of empire where the apparent satraps in fact control the empire's politics.

Blogger Dark Herald July 30, 2014 6:08 AM  

By some dark miracle the New York Times actually published a decent piece on why Hamas started this war.

They needed to boost their internal polls with the Palestinians. Convincing the Israelis come kick their asses for a little bit, was very effective way to do just that.

Hamas ushered in to power by the Palestinians with frantic jubilation and optimistic star gazing. Hamas was going to be trans-formative, for the Palestinians. It was going to get things done, unlike the old corrupt Fatah. It was going to be a New and Happy (and presumably Israel free) World after Hamas took the reins.

This is probably sounding more than a little tragically familiar to Americans. No wonder Obama takes their side, if he can feel anyone's pain, it's their's.

Hamas as a governing body was doomed from the start. Arabs are culturally incapable of avoiding kleptocrasy. It just can't be done. The best they can do is "acceptable levels of corruption" and that was just beyond Hamas. The Gaza strip has fifty percent unemployment and 40,000 unpaid government workers. Those "workers" did not get their jobs on merit, they got them by the cousins of somebody in Hamas.

Hamas was failing at something very big in the Arab world. Nepotism.

Clearly a distraction was needed.

When war between Israel and Hamas broke out two weeks ago, the Palestinian militant group was so hamstrung, politically, economically and diplomatically, that its leaders appeared to feel they had nothing to lose.

Hamas took what some here call "option zero," gambling that it could shift the balance with its trump cards: its arms and militants.

Now, this conflict has demonstrated that while Hamas governed over 1.7 million people mired in poverty, its leaders were pouring resources into its military and expanding its ability to fight Israel. If it can turn that improved military prowess into concessions, like opening the border with Egypt, that may boost its standing among the people of Gaza -- although at an extraordinarily high cost in deaths and destruction.


Murdering Israeli women and children is good for your poll number when you are dealing Palestinians. So they lobbed rockets and claimed they killing just oodles and oodles of Jews.

Egypt had brokered a cease fire that the Israelis were willing to accept but that Hamas rejected because they gained nothing from it.

In bumbles John Kerry (after making snide asides about Israeli targeting), waiving his own cease fire agreement that was basically Hamas' wish list and dragging behind him the rather unwanted baggage train Turkey and Qatar.

Israel doesn't want to train Hamas to lob rockets every time their poll numbers dip, so they said no, and leaked why. John Kerry is a Yale educated blithering idiot who looks like, a Yale educated blithering idiot.

The end result is that the Israelis now view the Obama administration as both hostile and stupid.

Anonymous VD July 30, 2014 6:15 AM  

The end result is that the Israelis now view the Obama administration as both hostile and stupid.

You know, if they'd simply assigned a Mossad agent to read this blog, they would have known that back in 2008. One of you guys in Israel ought to see if you can get a consulting gig with them or something; as long as you're here anyway, might as well get paid for it.

Blogger Shimshon July 30, 2014 7:07 AM  

I don't think Bibi wants to go against the US so openly. I think he'd rather not go at all. He has no choice.

I don't know what the perception is from abroad about the tunnels. It is just coming to light here that the Arabs have been planning a raid for years to kidnap and kill hundreds of Israels surrounding Gaza. This would have been the greatest mass murder and action against Jews since...well...dare I say it...Hitler. What they planned boggles the mind. They would have literally torn the country apart.

Given that, nearly everyone, left to right, is egging him on. He didn't want a spine, but a spine was thrust upon him nonetheless. He is still extremely hesitant, as you point out. This fence-sitting strategy cannot continue much longer. I wonder which way he'll go.

Anonymous Big Bill July 30, 2014 7:15 AM  

VD: "Sam Scott has already explained that the demographic trend you're describing is out of date. I think Israel is demographically fine for now, especially considering that it will likely be buttressed by another wave of European Jewry soon.."

The Israeli Central Bureau of Statistics has a bit more detail and it doesn't look promising, to say the least. But Sam Scott may have better numbers.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan July 30, 2014 7:18 AM  

This is probably all nat gas pipeline politics. Unless Russia can be broken back to vassal state I see a sellout of Israel in the cards.

Blogger Shimshon July 30, 2014 7:23 AM  

I've seen numbers that I believe are considered well-regarded. I'm not going to look them up now. But the numbers I see show births per woman bottoming out among Jews in Israel in the 1990s and increasing steadily since then. All groups are up, even seculars, although the most fervently devout are still the highest. The Arabs, contrarily, peaked in the 1970s and have been declining since then. The Jewish and Arab birthrates are within a few years of crossing for good, at most.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan July 30, 2014 7:24 AM  

If the EUweenies block the chicken run for a few right wing Israelies and their families I would bet my above assertion is right, sellout on deck.

Anonymous jack July 30, 2014 7:44 AM  

@VD: And as for the State Department's Jen Psaki saying the leak is a "severe violation of a private discussion", she might want to recall that she works for an administration that has the NSA spying on every conversation and email exchange in America.

Can the blog master win the comment thread with a phrase from the actual post?
Maybe so....

Anonymous jack July 30, 2014 7:55 AM  

Maybe not totally OT.
Remember, as you watch the circus that is the middle east, that almost all of America's most effective combat troops, including much national guard, I think, are posted overseas in meaningless, stupid little wars that all add up to the PLAN. Whats left here is Obama's pretty much personal SS in the form of Homeland Security, militarized police, swat teams in the dept of agriculture [unbelievable] and other forces almost too numerous to mention. And, the government has brought up almost all the loose ammo to the point you cannot even practice anymore for fear of none left for the main show. Bill Binney stating on the Still report that an Orwell world on steroids is just a key switch away from implementation. Anyone ready for a full dictatorship [more so than even now] here in the good old USA?
Heil Obama!
Meanwhile, keep your powder dry.

Anonymous VD July 30, 2014 8:00 AM  

I don't know what the perception is from abroad about the tunnels.

I think the entire attention paid to the subject was focused on the Israeli girl who posted a picture of herself in her underwear and referred to her vagina as an Israeli-built tunnel. I doubt one in fifty people would even know what you're talking about.

"Hamas shooting rockets, Israel ground offensive to stop rockets" is about as far as it goes.

Blogger Rantor July 30, 2014 8:02 AM  

Not surprising but our government can't keep their story straight. If it is as Psaki says a leak and violation of a private conversation then I don't see how it can be a fabrication.

Anonymous bob k. mando July 30, 2014 8:07 AM  

IF
demanding that a Joooos leader unilaterally adopt a ceasefire in the Levant is 'good' foreign policy
THEN
is it not also good foreign policy for the Jooooos leader of Ukraine?

you know, so the investigators can get to the MH-17 crash site?

it's almost as though the US doesn't have any desire to investigate that airplane ....

Anonymous bob k. mando July 30, 2014 8:09 AM  

VD July 30, 2014 8:00 AM
I think the entire attention paid to the subject was focused on the Israeli girl who posted a picture of herself in her underwear and referred to her vagina as an Israeli-built tunnel.


t,gtfo

Blogger Shimshon July 30, 2014 8:10 AM  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Rosh_Hashanah_Terror_Tunnel_Plot

This plan fits the scale of the tunnels. All they had to do was keep quiet for a few months. Astounding.

Anonymous Big Bill July 30, 2014 8:26 AM  

Shimshon, could you translate the Hebrew labels on the chart called "Analysis of TFR by religiosity of Jewish women in pooled Social Survey data" in the PDF file at my link above?

There doesn't seem to have been much change in TFR (=Total Fertility Rate = lifetime kids per woman) for each Israeli religious group in the last twenty years. One religious group has a TFR of 6.8, the next closest has a TRF of 4.2, and the other two groups (presumably containing the secular Jews) have TFRs close to 2. Not so good for the bottom two groups, who are just barely maintaining their population size.

To provide some comparison, a TFR of 6.8 would be the biggest TFR in the entire world.

Frankly, I don't see the Zuckerbergs of the world making aliyah anytime soon if they have to support this kind of welfare load.

And that really is the problem. Rich, talented, assimilated, secular European Jews are not going to return to Israel, and those that want to get ahead are going to leave. There is a lot more money to be made off the goyim in America and Europe than they can make in Israel.

It's sad, but it sure looks like the shtetl Jews are going to have the last laugh in this latest round of the Haskala. If the Russian Tsar couldn't assimilate shtetl Jews and break down the power of the klal, I sure can't see how Israeli seculars are going to do it, particularly in light of the Israeli/Jewish mythos of the Haredim being the "soul of the Jewish people". How can you attack your very soul? Good luck!

Anonymous zen0 July 30, 2014 8:28 AM  

@ Shimshon

This fence-sitting strategy cannot continue much longer. I wonder which way he'll go.

I'm expecting he will find a reason to back off, which will greatly disappoint many people and give Feiglin more ammunition.

He can claim that they achieved their objectives in Gaza, Hamas will declare victory, and the Israelis will continue to supply the Gazans with electricity, humanitarian aid, and medical care.

Anonymous Sigyn July 30, 2014 8:37 AM  

Just as a side note, that conversation reads to me like Obama was given a short bulleted list of points and told not to deviate. It comes off like he wasn't even listening to anything Netanyahu said, but not in any in-charge way; more like he was just reading a script.

...Does he use teleprompters while he's on the phone?

Anonymous VD July 30, 2014 8:41 AM  

He is still extremely hesitant, as you point out. This fence-sitting strategy cannot continue much longer. I wonder which way he'll go.

Declare victory and pull back. He's a politician, after all. He's scored points by facing down the President of the USA and stopping the big tunnel raid. If he was seriously going after Hamas, he never would have agreed to the early ceasefire or been dropping leaflets.

Anonymous Steveo July 30, 2014 8:44 AM  

So what's the biggest poker chip in the game? Netanyahu's recording of the conversation (if it's real); & how much will the US pay to get that chip off the table? Billions... with a B Billions... All in all done.

Now watch what the admin (wh) DOES. I'd say it looks like Bibi pulled a classic Putin on the chessboard & our best & brightest were trying to jump a checker.

Who you gonna call?

Anonymous bob k. mando July 30, 2014 8:45 AM  

Jon Drake July 30, 2014 5:08 AM
Jews fight back.

Try to kill Jews, and you will be destroyed.

Learn it. Know it. Live it. Bitches.



Simeonite.

Blogger Tommy Hass July 30, 2014 8:47 AM  

"...Does he use teleprompters while he's on the phone?"

hahahahahahahaha

Anonymous Athor Pel July 30, 2014 8:48 AM  

There are lots of borders that have tunnels.

The US-Mexico border has tunnels. These are used by drug smugglers. The tunnels that we know about are people sized.

The South Korea-North Korea border has tunnels. These were built by North Korea to use for infiltration and in the event of war. Many of the tunnels that have been found are vehicle sized, as in tanks and large trucks. One particular tunnel could move an armored division across the border in a matter of hours.

The Gaza-Egypt border has had tunnels for years. They are used by arms smugglers mostly.


That there are tunnels between Gaza and Israel, not even a little surprising. People that cannot do what they do in the light always dig tunnels.

Blogger agraves July 30, 2014 9:04 AM  

Remember 2006? When Israel went against Hezbollah? They were defeated along with many of their super tanks. Hamas and palestinians are weak sisters in the region, they humiliate palestinians on a daily basis and America never votes against them. Israel would not defeat Hezbollah as they hard soldiers, while Israelis are used to killing women and children with arty, american jets and armaments of all kinds.

Blogger Tommy Hass July 30, 2014 9:18 AM  

"Here's the deal...the days when Jews marched quietly to the death camps are over.

Jews fight back.

Try to kill Jews, and you will be destroyed.

Learn it. Know it. Live it. Bitches."

Shut up Shlomo, killing barely armed Palestinians isn't worth bragging about.

Anonymous zen0 July 30, 2014 9:23 AM  

Shut up Shlomo, killing barely armed Palestinians isn't worth bragging about.

Using human shields is pretty effective. That has to count for something.

Anonymous Josh July 30, 2014 9:31 AM  

Israel has detained 15-year-old American boy for 26 days; US is ‘gravely concerned’

I'm just shocked that this story has basically been ignored by the media. Just shocked.

Anonymous DT July 30, 2014 9:34 AM  

And as for the State Department's Jen Psaki saying the leak is a "severe violation of a private discussion", she might want to recall that she works for an administration that has the NSA spying on every conversation and email exchange in America.

Is it fake, or is it a severe violation of a private discussion? It can't be both.

Anonymous The other skeptic July 30, 2014 9:44 AM  

Perhaps it's all another case of Affirmative Action Plagiarism

Blogger JDC July 30, 2014 9:48 AM  

If this was fiction, and knowing what I know about the character, I would say that this doesn't sound like something he would say. The author nailed it when the pres appealed to world opinion, but the definitive way in which he speaks doesn't sound like him. Not enough um's and er's in the dialogue...unless, as others have pointed out he is reading from a teleprompter. Perhaps he was wearing google glassed during the call.

Anonymous bob k. mando July 30, 2014 9:52 AM  

JDC July 30, 2014 9:48 AM
Not enough um's and er's in the dialogue



there is no particular reason why a transcriptionist would include those.

also, Obama does tend to get much more forceful when he's actually speaking against somebody that he hates ( Christians, white people, Jooooos, capitalists ).


AGW OT:
almost August, the high yesterday was ~73 projected to be ~76 today.

ah, i pine for the 100 degree summer days of my misspent yout.

Anonymous The other skeptic July 30, 2014 9:57 AM  

The end result is that people now view the Obama administration as both hostile to Christians/Americans and stupid.

Fixed it for you.

Anonymous Anonymous July 30, 2014 10:10 AM  

The thing that doesn't ring true for me in this conversation is that Obama is actually talking on the phone to Netanyahu. Why would he do that? They are well known to dislike one another and Obama knows that his usual schmoozing and lying abilities don't work on Netanyahu and would work even less over the phone through translators. He'd send a minion of some kind. Except Kerry is kind of blown.

Netanyahu speaks english just fine, why would he need translators? Sure, they would be around for the other people in the conversation, maybe.

This sounds like one of those reporters-make-up-the-dialogue-after-the-fact things.

Anonymous LES July 30, 2014 10:12 AM  

"I am a [Palestinian]. Hath not a [Palestinian] eyes? hath not a [Palestinian] hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions?
fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject
to the same diseases, healed by the same means,
warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer, as
a Christian is? If you prick us, do we not bleed?
if you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison
us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not
revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will
resemble you in that." (-With apologies to William Shakespeare)
Shylock, "The Merchant of Venice", Act 3, Scene 1

Blogger napari July 30, 2014 10:32 AM  

I submit this past Sundays hot mike slip on Fox news Sunday by ketchup boy(Kerry) was no slip at all and this news of a private phone conversation is also not a slip. They both fall in the misinformation pattern Obama,his minions, and leftists are well known for. Its noteworthy that theres a track record of "other" slips from the white house.
Overthinking these cheap political ploys does a disservice to all.
Same stuff different day.

Blogger IM2L844 July 30, 2014 10:38 AM  

All those crappy rockets prohibited from meeting their intended consequences runs contrariwise to the fundamental doctrine of fairness and equality. It's unacceptable.

The falling down drunk who repeatedly picks a fight and throws lots of ineffective punches at the biggest soberest guy in the neighborhood bar doesn't deserve to get his ass kicked every time. A man should never ever hit a woman under any circumstances...especially the insane proactive girlfriend of the falling down drunk who is getting his ass kicked. Hamstringing the biggest soberest guy in the neighborhood bar is the only commonsensical, fair and humane thing to do.

Equality and fairness of outcomes are the most importantest things evah.

/stir

Anonymous Anonymous July 30, 2014 10:44 AM  

Would anybody actually do anything if Israel just wiped them off the face of the earth? I'm sure there would be plenty of "wow, just wow" but would any country actually go to war over it?

Blogger Miguel D'Anconia July 30, 2014 10:45 AM  

Cut foreign aid to Israel and the Palestinians (and every other country for that matter). Kick out all the Israeli spies from the US. Let Israel and the Palestinians do what they want without US interference.

Blogger napari July 30, 2014 10:45 AM  

"The falling down drunk who repeatedly picks a fight and throws lots of ineffective punches at the biggest soberest guy in the neighborhood bar doesn't deserve to get his ass kicked every time."

This comment does reflect how stupid Hamas is and/or Hamas has a death wish.
Ive seen it with my own eyes an idiot drunk picking a fight with someone who rather just enjoy a beer buzz until the non aggressor has no other option but to knock him the f*** out.
Funny analogy buy fitting.

Anonymous Dr. Kenneth Noisewater July 30, 2014 10:47 AM  

At this point, they should simply end the military operations. As per 4GW doctrine, they hit too soft and too slow. The IDF is saying go big or go home, but proceeding from this point will likely do more harm than good since Israel has no intention of removing the Palestinians from Gaza and settling it, thereby rendering the entire exercise pointless beyond the short term. At the moment, it appears to have been an exercise chiefly driven by domestic political pressure.

This is why they fail. If you're going to conquer, then CONQUER.

It's a fundamental flaw in the Israeli psyche, a result of its founders' bolshie sympathies and need for approval from the 'world stage'. Because of this, many Jews and Gentiles have died unnecessarily, and will continue to, until Israelis embrace and fully complete their conquest or they give up and die. Stalemates are bloodier than victories.

Anonymous Emperor Plapatine's personal spokesman July 30, 2014 10:54 AM  

Emperor Palpatine, CEO of Amalgamated Wall Street Inc.

EP: Good job, Bibi, on smacking down the goat humpers, now back off, declare victory, and let things cool down. Long wars are bad for our business. After the rocket attacks resume, you have my full authorization to depopulate and colonize the province.

Bibi: By your command, my Emperor!

EP: Barack, you little turd, do you remember who makes the rules and who plays president? How would you like to spend the rest of your miserable life chained to your harpy wife in a Russian gulag or Chinese/Wallmart work camp? That could be easily arranged with Vladimir or Wen Jiabao. Now shut the hell up and go play with your teleprompter!

BO: Yes sir, Mr. Emperor sir!

Anonymous Josh July 30, 2014 10:58 AM  

It's a fundamental flaw in the Israeli psyche, a result of its founders' bolshie sympathies and need for approval from the 'world stage'.

I'm not sure bolshie sympathies are the root.

There aren't any easy options for the Israelis.

Ethnically cleansing the west bank and Gaza is the rational choice, but it would turn them into another south Africa.

Anonymous wald-us July 30, 2014 11:08 AM  

I also have to doubt the transcript is accurate. The language used seems to have the intention of presenting, rather crudely, a specific interpretation of the conflict and does not resemble the sort of diplomatic language that is usually used in these situations. In fact it does not even seem like a conversation between two real people as it misses all the bits and pieces of a normal interaction, the fillers and sidetracks, but reads instead like a very poorly written, sterile dialogue..

Releasing the actual transcript would help, but I doubt we'll see it for many decades. A lot is being said between world leaders in private conversations with many items not for public consumption. Whatever damage or ridicule Obama may suffer from this hoax is probably still deemed better than revealing the full content of what was said in what must have been a very tense exchange.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus July 30, 2014 11:25 AM  

Sigyn: "Just as a side note, that conversation reads to me like Obama was given a short bulleted list of points and told not to deviate."

It reads the same to me.

I think that's a good idea. It's a way to minimize the disadvantage of the psychologically weaker party in the conversation.

The psychologically weaker party would not be just Obama but any US president. If you read The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy by John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt, or even just Part I Chapter 1 The Great Benefactor detailing how much America does for Israel, the psychological ascendancy of the Jews in the "special relationship" is scarcely deniable. An enormous part of what Israel has always gotten from the Americans comes in the form of promises broken, limits cheated in various ways, extra-special terms on things that should be financially standard, debts readily contracted and made to go away in various ways instead of being simply repaid, and generally the fact that the Jews can get away with any amount of cheating, stealing and non-reciprocation without weak, distractible and easily lied-to or otherwise dominated non-Jews calling them on it. It's not a minor thing, it's a big thing, and it's persisted for most of a century.

Given the heavy psychological ascendancy of Jewish leaders foreign and domestic over non-Jews in the White House, it would be foolish for President Obama or any US President not to stick to a script. And it would be a good thing to have a trusted aide to go through any conversations after, identify deviations from the script, and work out just how much of the store the President has given away in those moments.

Of course, given the way American politics works now, that trusted aide would probably also be Jewish.

Anonymous Don July 30, 2014 11:29 AM  

Well at least Anonymous' threat is different. He didn't say he wouldn't sleep with Vox just Nuke him.

Anonymous zen0 July 30, 2014 11:47 AM  

Anonymous July 30, 2014 11:17 AM

So read it and delete it.

Now you know it "VD".


It will be deleted because it is from anonymous, as per the rule near the top left of the page

Besides its old news here, discussed in a previous post.

Do try to keep up, now.

Anonymous Jack Amok July 30, 2014 11:54 AM  

Would anybody actually do anything if Israel just wiped them off the face of the earth? I'm sure there would be plenty of "wow, just wow" but would any country actually go to war over it?

Seems to me the area is outliving it's usefulness to the rest of the world. Of course, as the centennial we are, um, celebrating this year points out, that doesn't mean it can't provoke a larger war if the powers are in the hands of imbeciles.

I find it increasingly difficult to believe we will get out of the next fifteen years without a lot of bloodshed, primarily because so many people are locked into dead-end trajectories, but if sane people were running the US and Europe, we'd be too busy fraking to bother with these people.

Anonymous VD July 30, 2014 11:57 AM  

Would anybody actually do anything if Israel just wiped them off the face of the earth? I'm sure there would be plenty of "wow, just wow" but would any country actually go to war over it?

I doubt there would be formal state-on-state war, but it would probably get a statistically significant percentage of European and American Jewry killed. To a certain extent, they are hostage to Israel's behavior.

Anonymous VD July 30, 2014 12:03 PM  

As for the so-called Samson Option, I've spoken to two experts who consider it to be considerably overstated. It's not a serious deterrent, in the sense of actually wiping out the larger countries like China, Russia, and the USA in the way that Israel would be a glowing pit. But it is a serious deterrent in that some of the major cities would have large radioactive holes in them where most of the US decision makers live.

But it's largely irrelevant at the moment because Israel is in no danger from its neighbors at the moment. Hamas isn't an existential threat, for all that it would like to be.

Anonymous GreyS July 30, 2014 12:16 PM  

I demand that Israel agrees to an immediate, unilateral ceasefire and halt all offensive activities, in particular airstrikes

Hard to take this supposed transcript seriously after that open. Just not his style. The entire thing sounds like a political graphic novel.

Anonymous Stilicho July 30, 2014 12:22 PM  

This situation highlights an exploitable weakness of 4GW: It is most successful when it seeks to destabilize, destroy, or overthrow an established nation or government. When its practitioners also seek to replace the targeted nation or government, they are forced to create an establishment of their own that is susceptible to conventional attacks and destruction by their enemies. If its practitioners do not create such an establishment or allow one to be created, then they will lose their moral advantage with the affected populace due to the misery in which they are forced to live. It is inherently a discivic force. Its practitioners must either render their targets incapable of retaliating or it must find a way to stop the conflict and build an acceptable alternative establishment that can successfully coexist with the former targets. Given that Hamas' primary objective beyond the will to power is the destruction of Israel, they must either succeed or be replaced by those who either can or are willing to accept an alternate solution. Hamas understands this since this is exactly how they replaced the PLO in Gaza. Once the 4GW genie is out of the bottle, it's damned near impossible to put it back. Israel can conquer or continue to face these attacks from Hamas or its successors unless the Gazans actually accept an alternate solution.

Anonymous Don July 30, 2014 12:25 PM  

Weird that they deny the transcripts but say that it is a violation of a private conversation.

Anonymous Don July 30, 2014 12:30 PM  

Israel can solve this pretty easily. Pick a country they don't like. Take everyone from Gaza and the West Bank to 100 meters from the border with said country. Build a great big wall on the Israeli side. Secede everyone and everything on the other side of the big wall. Problem solved. Now all they'd have to do is clean up Gaza and the West Bank.

Anonymous Sigyn July 30, 2014 12:33 PM  

I think that's [I assume, reading a bullet list/script] a good idea.

Then why even call? Just turn on a recording that repeats itself.

Anonymous Stilicho July 30, 2014 12:37 PM  

Then why even call? Just turn on a recording that repeats itself.

Then why even hold elections? Just install a politician that repeats itself.

You may be on to something there...

Anonymous Erik July 30, 2014 12:41 PM  

antidemblog wrote: "Proper response: What you will receive is your continued existence, you impudent piece of shit. Your country's survival hangs on my country's continued willingness to provide money, weapons, and political cover for what you do."

I don't believe this. I think that if the US decided to wash its hands of the Middle East, Israel would still survive, and would crush a hell of a lot more Palestinians and miscellaneous other enemies over the screams of the UN and various talking heads. Israel's restraint, IMO, is what the US is actually buying, not Israel's survival. If the aid from the US disappears, I expect the Israelis to get desperate and start fighting dirty as hell, because what have they got to lose in that situation? US support hypothetically gone already, EU support nonexistent in the first place, China and Russia probably not giving a fuck.

Blogger IM2L844 July 30, 2014 1:03 PM  

"Funny analogy buy fitting."

Well, there are no perfect analogies, but what the biggest soberest guy in the neighborhood bar doesn't realize is that he is the one most likely to get banned for his response which is bound to be perceived as excessive regardless of its propriety. A more covert option might have been more effective than a public beating and pretentious chest thumping. "Look everybody, I beat up a drunk" is never going to play well.

Anonymous Sigyn July 30, 2014 1:17 PM  

Then why even hold elections? Just install a politician that repeats itself.

Yeah, I know a guy who makes awesome speeches...

...Anyway, I know you're joking, but if there's no chance of any kind of meaningful change, I'm not sure there'd be a point except to acquire the moral high ground before taking drastic action.

This clearly isn't an ultimatum-type call, though. This is Obama going through the motions to save face. Or something. It's not beyond the realm of possibility he was having a Beer Summit and lost a bet. Or maybe Michelle was feeling naggy and Obama told her to do her best impression.

Anonymous Stilicho July 30, 2014 1:28 PM  

Or maybe Michelle was feeling naggy and Obama told her to do her best impression.

Nah, she's got too much testosterone to do a credible impersonation

Anonymous GreyS July 30, 2014 2:26 PM  

Weird that they deny the transcripts but say that it is a violation of a private conversation.

They did not say that. They said someone misrepresented a private conversation.

Anonymous ck July 30, 2014 2:42 PM  

Proper response:

"What you will receive is your continued existence, you impudent piece of shit. Your country's survival hangs on my country's continued willingness to provide money, weapons, and political cover for what you do. Therefore, you will do what I fucking tell you, and you will say 'Yes, sir' when I do. You seem to have some illusion about who is the hegemon and who is the satrap here. If you say one more word out of line, I will remind you of who is who, and will do so in a way that you will never forget. Now, I'm going to tell you what you're going to do next, so take notes. When we're done, you will do as you're told, and in short order, or you're fucking screwed."

I think that's what James Baker - former marine and all - must have said before the first Gulf War.

Anonymous LES July 30, 2014 2:53 PM  

How convenient that the indigenous population that had their homes and land stolen in 1947, 1948 and 1967 are the hated "goat-humping Muzzies."

Would the hate be the same if the Palestinians were all Greek Orthodox or Lutherans?

Wouldn't it have been much cheaper to simply pay reparations to the people who were forced out of their homes and off their land?

When did God tell the modern, secular state called Israel to steal the land and drive off the inhabitants?

Anonymous patrick kelly July 30, 2014 3:06 PM  

I didn't think the "Samson Option" involved nuking anyone other than their surrounding, hostile neighbors.

Does Israel have ICBMs? Or nuke armed subs off US and European coasts?

Anonymous Don July 30, 2014 3:17 PM  

GreyS - Maybe it was Obama or Bibi doing an old Bob Newhart phone routine to mess with their aides?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7K6N3rc2WYI

Blogger LAZ July 30, 2014 3:53 PM  

"Would the hate be the same if the Palestinians were all Greek Orthodox or Lutherans?"

The Greeks and Lutherans aren't trying to kill people just because they don't subscribe to the same religion. When was the last time a Greek or Lutheran declared jihad on half the world? When was the last time one of them killed civilians with a plane or bomb?

Anonymous Luke July 30, 2014 4:12 PM  

LES July 30, 2014 2:53 PM

"How convenient that the indigenous population that had their homes and land stolen in 1947, 1948 and 1967 are the hated "goat-humping Muzzies."

Would the hate be the same if the Palestinians were all Greek Orthodox or Lutherans?

Wouldn't it have been much cheaper to simply pay reparations to the people who were forced out of their homes and off their land?

When did God tell the modern, secular state called Israel to steal the land and drive off the inhabitants?"


1) Muslims have given plenty of reason for nonMuslims to implacably hate them. Try reading some Robert Spencer if unaware of this.

2) They DO engage in bestiality to a sometimes noticeable level. A guy I worked with on a rig about 4 years ago told me of being on a rig in Tunisia, where the Arab workers kept a ewe for, ah, recreation, tied up by the change house. (They offered to share her with him; he politely declined.)

3) Re 1948 and 1967, when you lose in war, it's common, even usual, to lose territory. Ask the Germans, Japanese, Aztecs, and American aborigines if unclear about this. (The Israelis TRIED to keep Jordan out in 1967, and all the Arabs nearby instantly dogpiled on them in 1947, so a heck of a case can be made for the whole situation appropriately lying at the Arab's feet.)

4) Re reparations for 1947-8, try billing the British, as they owned and ran the whole area of Israel/Palestine/Eqypt/Jordan at the time. (They could most easily pay with Muslims and mosques, currently having an oversupply of these. As those are considered invaluable by Muslims, the Brits shipping all they have of those should more than settle the bill.)




Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus July 30, 2014 4:17 PM  

"I think that's [I assume, reading a bullet list/script] a good idea."

You assume correctly.

Sigyn: "Then why even call? Just turn on a recording that repeats itself."

Because it would also take time to make the recording in the first place.

And it doesn't save time by making the recording once and playing it repeatedly, because:
1. One phone call was likely enough to get whoever was nagging Barack to "do something" to stop nagging him, so there would be no point in a repeat.
2. A recording on a loop might make Bibi angry. Bibi might scold Barack and have Congress applaud him dozens of times doing it, again. Or he might leak the transcript of the pointless tape playing. Though in effect it seems he did that anyway.

Also, Barack already did something similar, in giving Queen Elizabeth II an iPod full of Barack Obama speeches, and it wasn't a diplomatic triumph.

Or are you suggesting that Barack Obama no longer call other people, and satisfy his need to bloviate by recording talking points and playing them endlessly only to himself? I'm sure his presidency would be less harmful if he did that, but isn't that what his retirement years are for?

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus July 30, 2014 4:56 PM  

LAZ: "The Greeks and Lutherans aren't trying to kill people just because they don't subscribe to the same religion."

Neither are the Palestinians. The Jews invaded them (under the cover of immigration, refugee status etc.), took their land, and set out to extinguish them, defining them as a nonexistent people and trying (inconsistently and half-heartedly but with some persistence) to abolish them in a practical sense. ("A land without people for a people without land", "Palestinians do not exist", ethnic cleansing at Deir Yassin etc.) These are adequate explanations for violent dislike and war. A desire to force the Jews to convert to Islam or pay a tax, on the other hand, is absent or extremely peripheral.

LAZ: "When was the last time a Greek or Lutheran declared jihad on half the world? When was the last time one of them killed civilians with a plane or bomb?"

He was neither a Greek nor a Lutheran, but in his second inauguration speech George W. Bush committed America to endless struggle, including when necessary and appropriate military action, throughout the world and to the end of time, or till all "tyranny" (in neocon eyes) was abolished everywhere forever. The language was certainly as violent as any Iranian remark about Israel being "wiped from the page of time". It was the sort of thing that, if the shoe was on the other foot, would be called a summons to perpetual violent jihad.

When was the last time the enforcers of the American Presidency killed a civilian with a plane or a bomb? All the time. By the way, drones count too.

(However if it has to be actual Greek terrorism, you're looking back on ancient history, such as the Cypriot terrorism campaign of 1955–1959.)

Anonymous Sigyn July 30, 2014 5:06 PM  

Or are you suggesting that Barack Obama no longer call other people, and satisfy his need to bloviate by recording talking points and playing them endlessly only to himself?

We-e-e-e-ell...

Heh, no. I was thinking in terms of one of those automated call centers.

But I do get annoyed by people wasting time. Besides, those long-distance charges are murder...

Anonymous Anti-Democracy Activist July 30, 2014 5:10 PM  

"I don't believe this. I think that if the US decided to wash its hands of the Middle East, Israel would still survive, and would crush a hell of a lot more Palestinians and miscellaneous other enemies over the screams of the UN and various talking heads. Israel's restraint, IMO, is what the US is actually buying, not Israel's survival."

Without America's weapons, money, and political cover, Israel would shrivel up and disappear. The latter especially - if America dropped it, Israel would quickly find itself an international pariah state on the level of Ian Smith-era Rhodesia. How'd that work out for the white Rhodesians?

Anonymous Anonymous July 30, 2014 5:19 PM  

"Israel's restraint, IMO, is what the US is actually buying,"

Part of the 'fear', or at least concern, is that Israel will flip to the Russian sphere of influence. (I know, people around here would be dancing and cheering.)

But that gives the Russians advanced avionics and shuts down the Israeli avenue of signals intelligence in that sphere (the US operates an important listening post on some Israeli mountain) not to mention whatever human intelligence gets shared at lower levels.

Netanyahu had a not-so-secret meeting with Putin a while back that had some subterfuge around it.

For all the refusenik stuff and forbidding jews to leave the USSR and then finally dumping them into Israel, Russia sure does like the business and remittances and connections coming back.

Blogger LAZ July 30, 2014 5:23 PM  

@ Titus Didius Tacitus: All valid points but, I realize now that I misspoke. I meant to say "purposely killed civilians". As in they specifically targeted civilians. And by plane, I mean fly a plane into a building (i.e. purposely targeting civilians).

btw: You have to realize that when someone says "Palestinian" I hear "Muslim". To me there is no difference in one Muslim to another. Take killing people who won't convert to Islam out of their tenets and then we can talk.

Anonymous Luke July 30, 2014 5:42 PM  

Anti-Democracy Activist July 30, 2014 5:10 PM

" Without America's weapons, money, and political cover, Israel would shrivel up and disappear. The latter especially - if America dropped it, Israel would quickly find itself an international pariah state on the level of Ian Smith-era Rhodesia. How'd that work out for the white Rhodesians?"

Rhodesians had their Western fraction as a minority, unlike Jews in Israel. Further, Rhodesia had no oil AFAIK; Israel now has significant and ever-increasing natgas supplies, as well as being good in high-tech/biomed. Too, Israel has a pretty decent domestic arms industry, far beyond what Rhodesia ever had. Israel does have richer, , more numerous direct enemies than Rhodesia did. But, terrain (at least against overt military ground attacks) favors their style more than it did the Rhodesians.

I guess that without direct attack by Russia/China, or major WMD hits, Israel's survival comes down to whether or not they have the will to live. I suspect they do; when they ethnically cleanse Gaza or the bulk of the West Bank (latter partly underway already), we'll know for certain that it's in the affirmative.

Anonymous ENthePeasant July 30, 2014 6:04 PM  

Israel's receiving big time support from Egypt, who's even destroying all the tunnels on their side of Gaza and Jordan has supposedly toll Bibi to get off his ass and get it done. Even the PA has been remarkably restrained, which is not surprising since Hamas executed hundreds of their supporters in 2007. I suspect Bibi's biggest problem is he did not count on all this support. He planned a very limited incursion, followed by world wide condemnation... It never really came and then he's got all this support in the Arab world. Strange place the Middle East is.

Anonymous Anti-Democracy Activist July 30, 2014 7:33 PM  

"Rhodesians had their Western fraction as a minority, unlike Jews in Israel. Further, Rhodesia had no oil AFAIK; Israel now has significant and ever-increasing natgas supplies, as well as being good in high-tech/biomed. Too, Israel has a pretty decent domestic arms industry, far beyond what Rhodesia ever had. Israel does have richer, , more numerous direct enemies than Rhodesia did. But, terrain (at least against overt military ground attacks) favors their style more than it did the Rhodesians.

Israelis are still a minority in the region, and a vigorous BDS movement would make them a basket case. Israel needs the world way, way more than the world needs Israel.

Anonymous Whiskey July 30, 2014 8:02 PM  

Day late and a dollar short on this one Vox. Netanyahu called the released transcripts a fake.

Nor is the world "outraged" about a few dead Palestinians. The Egyptians, Syrians, Jordanians, Saudis, all applaud Bibi because they despise political Islam as a threat to themselves and would love to see Hamas degraded or even destroyed. Yes its come to that.

A few Muslims and Blacks in Europe hate Jews, nothing new. They hate other Whites too, just as much. And will act accordingly when they have an opportunity there too.

No one CARES about the Palestinians. No one. Least of all Hamas.

My guess, is Bibi will simply deport a large amount of the Gazans, to Syria or Lebanon, and take a greater portion of Gaza for his own buffer zone. A "last chance to peace" to the Palestinians ... an incentive to settle for half a loaf or get none.

Not the least of which is that Obama's anti-Israeli policies have provoked a notable shift to Russia. Israel refrained from condemning the takeover of Crimea and has been silent on the Ukraine. There is a deal there -- Israel refrains from developing most of its offshore gas field if Russia provides protection and patronage, restraint on Iran and Syria.

The Saudis have explored this as well. Obama has abandoned them as well, seeking deals with Iran and being in general, a weak, Islamist backing jihadi just as predicted.

Anonymous 11B July 30, 2014 8:26 PM  

My guess, is Bibi will simply deport a large amount of the Gazans, to Syria or Lebanon, and take a greater portion of Gaza for his own buffer zone. A "last chance to peace" to the Palestinians ... an incentive to settle for half a loaf or get none.

My money is on the USA accepting Palestinian refugees. I wouldn't be surprised if there is some attempt to ethnically cleanse Palestine by importing them to the USA. Four years ago there was talk of the Bush admin taking in 100K Palestinians in exchange for a mideast peace deal.

The neocons could kill two birds with one stone on this, purify Israel while continuing to water down European Americans. What is not to like?

Anonymous Don July 30, 2014 10:06 PM  

There is a metric ass-load of land in Canada that could be traded say five to one mile for mile to the Palestinians and Canada wouldn't even notice. Give them some beach front property near Hudson Bay or something.

Anonymous 11B July 30, 2014 10:59 PM  

There is a metric ass-load of land in Canada that could be traded say five to one mile for mile to the Palestinians and Canada wouldn't even notice. Give them some beach front property near Hudson Bay or something.

They'd notice. There are about 5 million Palestinians and the current population of Canada is about 35 million. So importing all the Palis to Canada would make them roughly 1/8 of Canada's population. They'd notice.

I don't see why Canada, Australia or the USA should suffer for Israel's problems.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus July 31, 2014 2:52 AM  

LAZ: "I meant to say "purposely killed civilians". As in they specifically targeted civilians. And by plane, I mean fly a plane into a building (i.e. purposely targeting civilians)."

Fair enough. That's a valid distinction.

But the difference looms bigger to us than it does to people who are regularly on the bloody wrong end of "collateral damage".

LAZ: "btw: You have to realize that when someone says "Palestinian" I hear "Muslim". To me there is no difference in one Muslim to another. Take killing people who won't convert to Islam out of their tenets and then we can talk."

I agree that they are all the same for many purposes. For example, we should refuse them all admittance to traditionally white countries.

But I don't think the Palestinians are crazier than the Irish, and the root cause is the same: grievances. Temperament is a contributing factor, in both cases. And Islam is a contributing factor with the Palestinians too. But the root of it is history. It is history, including current events, that makes the Palestinians (including Christians) burn with hate. Given the same history, I do not think Christian Palestinians would nurse their grudges and hates any more fiercely than the equally Christian Irish.

Blogger Shimshon July 31, 2014 3:12 AM  

Whiskey,

"The Egyptians, Syrians, Jordanians, Saudis..."

This is true as far as it goes. But it's the Egyptian GOVERNMENT (etc.) that support the Israeli action. Some of those governments are looking mighty wobbly today. I doubt the people in each of those states are likewise as committed.

Turkey also used to be considered a fairly reliable and friendly ally. One that Israel did military exercises with.

Blogger Shimshon July 31, 2014 4:46 AM  

Democratic elections ushered in Hamas in Gaza, Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, and Sharia in Iraq.

Anonymous Don July 31, 2014 11:20 AM  

Sorry I was being facetious. Hence my earlier suggestion that they move all the Palestinians to the border then secede the region people and all. No one but Palis and Israelis have a dog in the fight.

Anonymous Anonymous July 31, 2014 5:15 PM  


Shimshon/30July14@7:23AM,

"The Jewish......at most."

Could this perhaps be a partial reason behind Hamas' rocket/tunnel campaign? Given the failure (so far) of Islamic supremacists to retain control of Egypt/its support pipeline, the lack of open support from Jordan, & the current fragmentation of possible Lebanese Islamic supremacist support for Hamas due to the Syrian conflict/ISIS' efforts in Iraq, it appears that Hamas' acts are directed toward re-focussing Arab attns on the Primary Enemy thereby re-uniting Araby against the Jews & (hopefully) re-establishing the supply of weapons/personnel/equipt (& MOST importantly CASH) that Hamas would presumably control before that demographic naqba overwhelms them.


Cassandra (of Troy)

Anonymous Anonymous July 31, 2014 5:30 PM  


jack/30July14@7:55AM,

Oh that's just crazy talk, & nevermind that it's a viable explanation for a multitude of post-Nov 2012 occurrences.

(Man? Curtain? I don' see nunuhthat, what you tokkinabout?")


Cassandra (of Troy)

Anonymous Anonymous July 31, 2014 6:05 PM  


Shimshon/30July14@8:10AM,

I'm rather surprised that Hamas didn't keep expanding/improving their tunnel system until it was underneath a lot of Israeli population/infrastructure centers then packed a ton +/- of HE in the ends & lit it off either simultaneously/daisy-chain, imagine the effect such an event would have not only on Israelis but on the Arabs as well per,:

"You SEE, ONLY Hamas could strike such a blow against the Zionists!"/something similar.

Quite a military/PR coup. I've also wondered why the IDF didn't simply run a DetCord/MICLIC line down the middle of the tunnels they discovered, pumped in an appropriate amount of violently combustible gas/liquid fuel, & then blew them. Sure would reveal a lot of (likely QUITE embarrassing) entry points while also collapsing the system rendering it unusable in the future. Also wouldn't hurt to leave some intact after implanting sensors of various kinds & CD demolition charges per:, Jihadi sez "Aha, the stupid jews missed some of our Brilliant Feats Of Islamic Military Engineering(tm) & so we can continue Our Valiant Struggle Against Zionist Oppression & Imperialism Inc.(C)(tm), ALLAHU AKBAR!", after which there's an enormous BOOOOM once enough Soldiers Of Allah (tm) are gathered. At least that's the kind of thing I'd do.


Cassandra (of Troy)

Anonymous Anonymous July 31, 2014 6:15 PM  


bob k mando/30July14@8:45AM,

Drake's statement's interesting in that at home "Jews fight back" in person & abroad they prefer using instl/govtl proxies to do that distasteful task.


Cassandra (of Troy)

Anonymous Luke August 01, 2014 12:47 AM  

Apt retort to pro-Palestinian posters:

http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/07/israel_does_not_violate_the_laws_of_war_in_gaza.html

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