ALL BLOG POSTS AND COMMENTS COPYRIGHT (C) 2003-2017 VOX DAY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. REPRODUCTION WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED.

Friday, August 01, 2014

Did not see that coming

For reasons related to World War II, my heritage is a little complicated. I've always known there were issues with the Official Story, for the obvious reason that one parent's age did not harmonize well with a grandparent's military service record, even though the birth records supported it.

Now my brother has sent me the results of the genetic test he had done recently and several of the results were a little surprising. Namely:
  1. I'm not of English-German descent on one side, but English-Irish.
  2. I'm definitely Hispanic, but I'm not Asian after all. This was a little surprising at first, given the appearance of one of my brothers. But I'm still tri-racial because....
  3. I'm Native American. And not in the Fauxcahontas manner either. We're talking about enough to qualify for membership in most Indian tribes. And, as it happens, more than enough to qualify for the relevant one.
So, as it happens, the racist whites of SFWA not only expelled a Person of Color, but one of its very few Indian members. I have to admit, I'm rather looking forward to the next person to resort to the "well, are you a Native American?" argument during a debate concerning the evils of immigration.

205 Comments:

1 – 200 of 205 Newer› Newest»
Blogger WATYF August 01, 2014 4:05 PM  

haha.... well ain't that a kick in the balls.

WATYF

Anonymous Idle Spectator August 01, 2014 4:05 PM  

Well that would explain why you kept going to jail after drinking.

Anonymous MrGreenMan August 01, 2014 4:06 PM  

Can you get a license for Internet gambling from a tribal council now?

Anonymous dw August 01, 2014 4:08 PM  

The economics debate between you and Nate was basically a round of Cowboys and Indians then.

Anonymous Noah B. August 01, 2014 4:09 PM  

There can be remarkable similarity in the appearance of Asians and Native Americans. Under the right circumstances it can be easy to confuse the two.

Blogger Nate August 01, 2014 4:11 PM  

native american... and hispanic... and IRISH?

You realize, and I'll have to run the math on this, but there is a chance that you have more savage in you than the infamous half-savage?

When you get angry to you find yourself thinking about painting your bottom blue? or perhaps eating the heart of a slave you just sacrificed?

Anonymous JoshM August 01, 2014 4:12 PM  

I'd say #2 isn't so surprising, given your findings in #3. I find Native Americans very often share similarities in appearance with Asians. And I think it's especially noticeable when they're bi- (or tri-) racial.

I assume that what surprised you was the lack of Asian ancestry...and not the finding that you are Hispanic.

Anonymous VD August 01, 2014 4:19 PM  

I assume that what surprised you was the lack of Asian ancestry...and not the finding that you are Hispanic.

Yeah, the Hispanic was an absolute given. I know the great-uncle who is the son of a Mexican revolutionary who escaped the assassination of Pancho Villa. He's still alive.

Anonymous Bernard Brandt August 01, 2014 4:20 PM  

I would be very interested in knowing what genetic test your brother used, and how accurate it is. You see, I'm in the odd position of being two generations from the reservation myself on my mother's side, but because the Anglo side of the family wanted to cover it up, our family is not on the rolls.

Anonymous Varenius August 01, 2014 4:21 PM  

Was this from 23andme? I'm curious what my results would be, but not enough to calm my paranoia over giving them the right to data-mine my genetic info for profit. (Check out the fine print on the contract.)

Anonymous Don August 01, 2014 4:23 PM  

Vox - Do you know what tribe or branch of Native American?

Anonymous corvinus August 01, 2014 4:23 PM  

What I find interesting is that if a white American has Native in their background, they tend to be quick to let you know. Of my four closest (right now) female friends, three have mentioned having it. ("OMG! Native is the Jewish of goyim!") For my part, I'm of 100% European ancestry AFAIK.

Anonymous VD August 01, 2014 4:24 PM  

There can be remarkable similarity in the appearance of Asians and Native Americans.

SB says that the appearance of two of my brothers makes more sense to her now now. One more than the other, but they both have a slightly "hawkish" look that didn't quite line up with the Asian notion, although it was credible with their eyes and cheekbones.

Blogger August August 01, 2014 4:25 PM  

Ask for Neanderthal percentage. There seems to be some association between Neanderthal dna and intelligence.

Anonymous Stilicho August 01, 2014 4:28 PM  

Time to bring back the mohawk picture as your official author photo for book jackets, etc.

As for the Irish, well, condolences are probably in order. Given the time my family spent in the conquest of Ulster, some of that heritage may have been grafted on to the family tree, but we don't talk about it in polite company.

Anonymous VD August 01, 2014 4:30 PM  

Was this from 23andme?

No. I don't trust them either, due to their Google heritage. Doesn't mean any of the others are any better when it comes to selling data, but 23 and Me is just asking for trouble.

Do you know what tribe or branch of Native American?

My brother has a very good idea, but hasn't nailed it down 100 percent yet. Knowing him, he'll join the tribe and be elected its chief within a decade.

What I find interesting is that if a white American has Native in their background, they tend to be quick to let you know.

Probably because it is a very useful means of defanging and turning around the "you racist" argument to which has been aimed at every single white in America at one point or another. I've been practicing my "Excuse me, but as a Native American..." arguments all day.

Anonymous Christian August 01, 2014 4:35 PM  

Well, according to Sociologists everywhere, race refers to, and I quote, "superficial physical differences that a particular society considers significant". So what does it matter? I absolutely enjoyed hearing about how race is somehow a social construct and "not purely biological". Maybe those are the excuses used by those kicked you out? It would fit in with their own contradictory and blatantly stupid nature.

Anonymous Wyrd August 01, 2014 4:36 PM  

Well, Vox, now you know why you always cry at the sight of litter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7OHG7tHrNM
(for the youngins in the crowd)

Anonymous Idle Spectator, Shouxshine Tribe August 01, 2014 4:38 PM  

("OMG! Native is the Jewish of goyim!")

If only. Maybe then we could get some more Nobel Prizes instead of codetalkers.

Anonymous GreyS August 01, 2014 4:38 PM  

Please work in a reference to "collecting scalps" now and again.

Anonymous Amok Time August 01, 2014 4:39 PM  

I have been meaning to explore my savage side. Any recommendations for genetic testing? I am sure i have lots of Neanderthal and Eskimo.

Anonymous Noah B. August 01, 2014 4:41 PM  

I've been practicing my "Excuse me, but as a Native American..." arguments all day.

But can you cry a single tear on command?

Anonymous SFWA August 01, 2014 4:42 PM  

but you are still not GAY....

Anonymous Don August 01, 2014 4:43 PM  

People constantly mistake one of my daughters for Korean when she's Athabascan.

Anonymous Strange Aeons August 01, 2014 4:43 PM  

I could use some help sorting out pinkthink:
They say race & gender are just "social constructs". So if a man identifies as a woman, a woman as a man, or a human as an animal, we have to accept that. So in like fashion, when they wheel out the anti-white trope, even if we're clearly 100% European, couldn't we just say we identify as African or Latino, and by virtue of 'social construct' therefore receive a "get out of racism free" card?

Anonymous ThirdMonkey August 01, 2014 4:46 PM  

Through using geneology websites, I have discovered that I am not only of both Choctaw and Cherokee heritage, ancestors on both sides of my family were slaves. On my father's side, our ancestor was Welsh orphan who was sold as an indentured servant and worked on tobacco plantations in Virginia. On my mother's side, our ancestor was a Scottish officer who was captured by Cromwell (Purtain bastard, may he burn in hell) and sent to Connecticut, where he worked in a steel mill.

Additionally, according to the US Census definition, I am Hispanic due to the culture in which I was raised. (5th generation New Mexican. I'm a chollo, ese.)

That makes me a culturally disadvantaged, bi-ratial descendant of slaves. Identity politics, FTW.

Blogger Crowhill August 01, 2014 4:46 PM  

I wonder how many of us actually have the heritage we think we have.

Anonymous Harsh August 01, 2014 4:49 PM  

Ah, but do you self-identify as Native American?

Blogger szook August 01, 2014 4:50 PM  

Native Americans were Asians before their forefathers came to America (presumably via the Bering Strait or along the Aleutian chain). So your still somewhat Asian.....

Anonymous VD August 01, 2014 4:50 PM  

But can you cry a single tear on command?

Absolutely. Usually when I'm on the beach, wine glass in hand. I think of the criticism to which I am subjected and a single tear makes its salty way down my cheek.

Anonymous VD August 01, 2014 4:51 PM  

do you self-identify as Native American?

Oh, with a vengeance.

Anonymous Christian August 01, 2014 4:51 PM  

"...and by virtue of 'social construct' therefore receive a "get out of racism free" card?"

My thoughts exactly.
Anytime someone brings up slavery I always think back to one of the first slave owners in America... he was black.

Blogger pyrrhus August 01, 2014 4:51 PM  

Outstanding! Now you can run for President....maybe against Fauxcohontas...

Anonymous Don August 01, 2014 4:52 PM  

ThirdMonkey you are related to me. Weird. I found that one of my ancestors I thought was Norwegian was Kven Finn and Sami. If I had done gene testing before finding that out I might have doubts about my family history. Another ancestor I was certain was Scottish was actually Welsh.

Anonymous Don August 01, 2014 4:53 PM  

Vox - The funny thing about that single tear is that the guy in the commercial was actually Italian.

Blogger rcocean August 01, 2014 4:55 PM  

I knew you were too smart to be all white.

Anonymous Huckleberry -- est. 1977 August 01, 2014 4:56 PM  

Native American.
They'll just write you off as an Uncle Tom Standing Bear and call it a day, but the more mental pretzels you can force them into, the more fun it is for us to watch, at any rate.

Blogger rcocean August 01, 2014 4:57 PM  

Wait a minute, how can we have genetic testing for races when race is a "social construct"? I'm confused.

Anonymous corvinus August 01, 2014 4:57 PM  

Probably because it is a very useful means of defanging and turning around the "you racist" argument to which has been aimed at every single white in America at one point or another. I've been practicing my "Excuse me, but as a Native American..." arguments all day.

Maybe for men who are into badthink like yourself. But I don't know why women would. And it's not that they're all liberals, either.

Perhaps top-shelf white American girls are more likely to have a certain amount of Native which gives them the high cheekbones or whatever that makes them more attractive, sort of like the Asiatic ancestry in Russian women. But only a relatively small amount, of course; too much Native and they end up fat and ugly like most Mexican women above the age of 25 or so.

Anonymous Porky August 01, 2014 4:58 PM  

Welcome, savage. U drinkum fire water?

Anonymous Salt August 01, 2014 4:58 PM  

Guess the Ilk need to hoist a glass of fire-water in your honer then.

Anonymous Anonymous August 01, 2014 4:59 PM  

Testing

Blogger Tiny Tim August 01, 2014 4:59 PM  

Fascinating...

Anonymous Running and waving Bear August 01, 2014 5:00 PM  

"Do you self-identify as Native American?"

Uh hum, First Peoples

Blogger rcocean August 01, 2014 5:00 PM  

"The funny thing about that single tear is that the guy in the commercial was actually Italian."

They got him to cry on cue by eating chef boyardee

Anonymous Christian August 01, 2014 5:01 PM  

"Wait a minute, how can we have genetic testing for races when race is a "social construct"? I'm confused."

I wanted to ask my sociology professor the same thing but I decided that that was enough contradictions for the day.

Blogger rcocean August 01, 2014 5:01 PM  

testing testing

Anonymous Salt August 01, 2014 5:02 PM  

"Wait a minute, how can we have genetic testing for races when race is a "social construct"?

Impressive!

Anonymous Noah B. August 01, 2014 5:03 PM  

"They got him to cry on cue by eating chef boyardee"

If eating it doesn't make you cry, reading its MSDS sheet will.

Blogger rcocean August 01, 2014 5:03 PM  

"I wanted to ask my sociology professor the same thing but I decided that that was enough contradictions for the day."

Well sociology is all scientificy. Its social science, somewhat like scientific Marxism or Phrenology.

Anonymous Stickwick August 01, 2014 5:04 PM  

HA! This should prove very interesting. Presumably all the white-privilege, lowest-difficulty-setting, racist-dipsh*t stuff will now be based on appearing white(ish). The new white privilege is white-appearance privilege.

Crowhill: I wonder how many of us actually have the heritage we think we have.

Yeah, I think these tests have unearthed more than a few family secrets. My brother did the test and discovered -- to our great surprise -- that our paternal grandfather was not English-Irish, but Macedonian. At first there was some question about his paternity, but it makes sense, because not a single man on that side looks even remotely English. After doing a little research, it turns out that there is a pocket of people of his haplogroup in England -- apparently the Romans accreted people from various regions, including Macedonia, and deposited them in Britain at some point.

Anonymous Porky August 01, 2014 5:07 PM  

This kind of explains why you think the annoyingly insipid music of that idiotic savage Macklemore is "awesome".

Anonymous Huckleberry -- est. 1977 August 01, 2014 5:08 PM  

This kind of explains why you think the annoyingly insipid music of that idiotic savage Macklemore is "awesome"

ZING!

Anonymous patrick kelly August 01, 2014 5:10 PM  

Holla my Micksican brother !!

Blogger wrf3 August 01, 2014 5:15 PM  

I hate to be the one to bring this up, but just because your brother has certain genetic traits, it doesn't necessarily follow that you have them -- unless they are strictly maternal traits.

Anonymous Varenius August 01, 2014 5:19 PM  

Stickwick: After doing a little research, it turns out that there is a pocket of people of his haplogroup in England -- apparently the Romans accreted people from various regions, including Macedonia, and deposited them in Britain at some point.

But we're talking millennia here, so there had to be interbreeding with the English somewhere. Does it really make sense to still call him "Macedonian"?

Anonymous tungsten August 01, 2014 5:19 PM  

Vox, shouldn't you be 100% italian by now thanks to the magic of immigration?

Blogger Manach August 01, 2014 5:23 PM  

Congrats on the Irish part :note, start drinking Murphy's stout and not that pale imitation Guinness watery brew to embrace your legacy heritage.

Blogger RobertT August 01, 2014 5:24 PM  

I ran for Congress against Ben Nighthorse Campbell, who at the time was well known even to monks living in confinement in Tibet. The Congressman's reputation was built on the fact that he was 100% native American. But during the election a disgruntled staff person got in touch with me and told me the Congressman was actually Portuguese and not native American. Who knows? I was actually 3/8 Cherokee and Choctaw and found out during the campaign I qualified to attend land grant colleges free of charge. But there's nothing you can do with that kind of thing. It's just an interesting side note. Ben walked all over me on his way to the U.S. Senate. He wasn't a bad guy. He won a judo silver medal in the olympics and was notorious for beating up people who tried to mug him in DC. My party was reluctant to fund my race because they thought he might change parties, and he actually did that during his time in the Senate.

OpenID pancakeloach August 01, 2014 5:25 PM  

Strange Aeons, of course lily-white people cannot identify as People Of Color, because that would be cultural appropriation! /irony

@Noah, only if you have the poor taste to have eaten the stuff before reading the label. Even as a small child I knew better than to eat that terrible slop unless I was forced to by the rules of hospitality as a guest in someone else's house.

Since Native Americans are a much more victimy victimized group than Asians, this is excellent news as it just proves that the expulsion of Vox from SFWA is yet another attempt by white men to exclude and oppress the noble First Peoples.

Do you all know what this means for the Evil League of Evil, though? Can our headquarters now qualify as a reservation, and will traditional war dances now take place before raiding parties depart to other blogs?

Anonymous YIH August 01, 2014 5:25 PM  

Wyrd:
Well, Vox, now you know why you always cry at the sight of litter.
More than you know, the ''crying indian'' is actually of Italian decent.

Anonymous Stickwick August 01, 2014 5:32 PM  

Varenius: But we're talking millennia here, so there had to be interbreeding with the English somewhere. Does it really make sense to still call him "Macedonian"?

Not by nationality, no. There is a pocket of this haplogroup concentrated in a region of England, so maybe they didn't interbreed very much? All I know is that the results of the test said "Southern European," Grandpa and Dad sure look Southern European, and by far the highest concentration of this particular haplogroup is in Macedonia. The other possibility, of course, is that there was some family intrigue, and our great-grandfather isn't who we thought he was.

Anonymous corvinus August 01, 2014 5:37 PM  

Grandpa and Dad sure look Southern European, and by far the highest concentration of this particular haplogroup is in Macedonia. The other possibility, of course, is that there was some family intrigue, and our great-grandfather isn't who we thought he was.

Runaway Janissary, perhaps.

Anonymous Varenius August 01, 2014 5:39 PM  

pancakeloach: ...to exclude and oppress the noble First Peoples.

The actual "First Peoples" are long gone. American Indian tribes should in fact be called the Immediately Previous Peoples.

Anonymous Porky August 01, 2014 5:41 PM  

ZING!

Well, a +3SD super-intelligence listening to techno and rap never made sense to me before.

It was like watching a Cordonbleu chef eat Spaghetti-o's straight from the can with his bare hands.

But now it all makes sense.

Anonymous the bandit August 01, 2014 5:42 PM  

Strange Aeons, of course lily-white people cannot identify as People Of Color, because that would be cultural appropriation! /irony

Blast, pancakeloach, you beat me to it!

Anonymous Strange Aeons August 01, 2014 5:42 PM  

@pancakeloach - I'll consider it a fair trade for them culturally appropriating our running water, electricity on demand, internal combustion, etc, but if all else fails I'm willing to claim some heritage of nebulous origins yet sufficiently PoCish. "Check what privilege? I'm dark hue-man, write me a check."

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother August 01, 2014 5:44 PM  

If eating it doesn't make you cry, reading its MSDS sheet will.

The fact that it has an MSDS sheet to begin with should make you cry.

Anonymous zen0 August 01, 2014 5:46 PM  

I was actually 3/8 Cherokee and Choctaw ....

Have you heard the theory that Cherokee are of middle east origin?

The laboratory immediately stumbled into a scientific hornet’s nest. That Cherokee princess in someone’s genealogy was most likely a Jewish or North African princess. Its scientists have labeled the Cherokees not as Native Americans, but as a Middle Eastern-North African population. Cherokees have high levels of test markers associated with the Berbers, native Egyptians, Turks, Lebanese, Hebrews and Mesopotamians. Genetically, they are more Jewish than the typical American Jew of European ancestry. So-called “full-blooded” Cherokees have high levels of European DNA and a trace of Asiatic (Native American) DNA. Their skin color and facial features are primarily Semitic in origin, not Native American. Outraged Cherokees can read the reports at: http://dnaconsultants.com/_blog/DNA_Consultants_Blog/post/Anomalous_Mitochondrial_DNA_Lineages_in_the_Cherokee/

Blogger LibertyPortraits August 01, 2014 5:47 PM  

I gotta get me one of these gen-tests.

Blogger Nate August 01, 2014 5:49 PM  

"Oh, with a vengeance."

The also explains your otherwise curious status as a notorious lightweight when it comes to alcohol tolerance.

Anonymous Ras Al Ghul August 01, 2014 5:50 PM  

As for the issue of having enough native American to qualify for membership in most tribes it has to be blood of that particular tribe to qualify as a member, hopefully you can narrow it down.

I've know full blooded Indians (and that's fairly rare these days) that weren't members of any tribe, and not allowed any of the federal benefits because they had blood for a number of tribes and none of them reached the sufficient blood quantum for any tribe

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother August 01, 2014 5:50 PM  

Ha ha Outraged Cherokees.

Anonymous Ras Al Ghul August 01, 2014 5:52 PM  

"Have you heard the theory that Cherokee are of middle east origin?"

For a moment there I thought you were going for the lost tribe of Judah and the Mormons there.

Blogger Markku August 01, 2014 5:55 PM  

I'm definitely Hispanic

I think it was established in the previous thread that you are Mestizo, not Hispanic. The latter would require your native language to be Spanish.

Anonymous corvinus August 01, 2014 5:57 PM  

Have you heard the theory that Cherokee are of middle east origin?

Hence the tendency of white Americans to boast "I'm 1/8 Cherokee!"... it's the Jewish genes involved speaking. Heh.

Blogger LibertyPortraits August 01, 2014 5:57 PM  

Also, this puts Vox's anti-immigration in a whole new perspective.

Anonymous Varenius August 01, 2014 5:58 PM  

Stickwick: All I know is that the results of the test said "Southern European,"

Maybe the results are mistaken...? This stuff is still in its infancy, so I'm skeptical about how nuanced the results are. I can imagine cases where the presence of a genetic "tracer" might lead to an overestimate of a certain heritage. For example, there's a region in France (IIRC) where the locals have the Mongolian "blue stripe" as infants. I wonder if these tests would overestimate their Asian heritage.

Anonymous Stickwick August 01, 2014 6:00 PM  

corvinus: Runaway Janissary, perhaps.

That would make a good story, wouldn't it? In fact, that sounds like the title of an historical fiction novel.

Blogger Tom Kratman August 01, 2014 6:03 PM  

Offered without further comment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD0BcQTIr4c

Anonymous Stickwick August 01, 2014 6:05 PM  

Varenius: Maybe the results are mistaken...? This stuff is still in its infancy, so I'm skeptical about how nuanced the results are.

It's possible. And I don't have the necessary background in genetics to understand how it all works. But it really does make sense in terms of physical appearance. When I first introduced my Finnish husband to my family and told him our background on that side was English, he looked at me like, "You've got to be kidding," but he didn't want to stir anything up. After we got the genetic results, he said it made a lot more sense.

Anonymous Varenius August 01, 2014 6:09 PM  

LibertyPortraits: I gotta get me one of these gen-tests.

Just be sure to read the fine print first. You might be disturbed by what you are actually signing over.

Anonymous trk August 01, 2014 6:12 PM  

So nice Italian moccasins? Injun gonna injun. What part of the country is your tribe vox? Are you the last of the Mohican?

Blogger Feather Blade August 01, 2014 6:13 PM  

Presumably all the white-privilege, lowest-difficulty-setting, racist-dipsh*t stuff will now be based on appearing white(ish).

Onoz! That means I will never be able to take advantage of any of the grievance politics, as I my skin tone can best be described as "fish-belly"!

What it really is, is SJWs hate Vikings.

Anonymous trk August 01, 2014 6:15 PM  

Are you going to forsake the Vikings and embrace your true heritage as a Redskin? As a Native American, can you settle once and for all if you are truly offended by the Redskin football name???

Anonymous VD August 01, 2014 6:18 PM  

As for the issue of having enough native American to qualify for membership in most tribes it has to be blood of that particular tribe to qualify as a member, hopefully you can narrow it down.

Apparently we actually know the specific family involved, so I don't think it is from multiple sources.

Blogger Cataline Sergius August 01, 2014 6:26 PM  

The guys I know doing cancer research run into this a lot.

The women of the Greatest Generation seem to have a false paternity rate of about 20%

Anonymous Krul August 01, 2014 6:32 PM  

Vox Popoli: Sept 3, 2013 - Therefore, in the future, please do not refer to me as any of my three biologically state-sanctioned racial heritages, (White, Hispanic, and Asian, to be precise), but rather, as trans-racial, Esquimaux and proud.

Wow. You really go all out when you decide to switch races.

So did you falsify the historical records and genetic test, or just go back in time and change history?

Anonymous ENthePeasant August 01, 2014 6:34 PM  

I feel your confusion. Growing up I was always told that I was half Swedish, 1/4 Scot and 1/4 Latin/Mexican/Italian (a very confusing story... but the only one that turned out to be accurate). My brother had gone to Sweden in the 1990s to work out that part of the lineage. But he had a very hard time working out the lineage of my Grandmother and Great Grandmother. He could find no evidence that the story given, along with visas and such, ever started in Sweden... and then the name "Hannahan" started turning up as the last name of her brother in NYC who supposedly brought her to America via Ellis Island. Relatives began saying she might have some German in her (It was obvious that the only Swede in her would have been my Grandfather) except investigating the brother turned up the fact that his mother, also my Grandmother's mother, was from Dublin and we're not talking about the Dublin near Hanover. Shortly after they found documents filed with the state of Minnesota who she worked for at one time indicating she was also born in Dublin... once again, not the Dublin near Hanover. Many of my older relatives refused to admit these ladies were Irish even on their death beds. But it was pretty clear I was of Irish heritage. Then my my Mom's father got his lineage investigated and it turns out his Mom who had him out of wedlock the father's name was O'Raurke and her maiden name was Rafferty and she was also from Dublin, and not the one in near Hanover.

Anonymous cheddarman August 01, 2014 6:36 PM  

Can you hunt rabbits out of season now?

Will you scalp Scalzi?

That could bring a whole new meaning to the word "scalzized"

Anonymous Salt August 01, 2014 6:37 PM  

Now we know where Vox gets some of his aggressive side. It's leftover from what the Injuns did to Custer.

Blogger IM2L844 August 01, 2014 6:39 PM  

Welcome to the subspecies, Dances With Rabbits.

Anonymous VD August 01, 2014 6:41 PM  

So did you falsify the historical records and genetic test, or just go back in time and change history?

We've known that certain state birth records were almost certainly false for about 20 years now. But the truth was impossible to come by since everyone involved was dead, in some cases for decades. So this is the first absolute confirmation that the Official Story was, in fact, false.

Legally, I'm still Asian. So you could say I'm Red-Yellow transracial.

Anonymous ENthePeasant August 01, 2014 6:41 PM  

"Offered without further comment:"

I was never aware of any Irish prejudice... other than they were drunks, which is interesting because my family were drunks and they thought they were Swedish... but it turns out they were Irish... Nature? Nurture? I grew up in California and no one ever really talked about their lineage but later on I found out that the Irish had supposedly faced some minor discrimination. When my father found out he was at least half, and more like 3/4, Irish he said, "FOR FUCK SAKE, I"M NOT IRISH!!!. MY MOTHER WAS A GOOD WOMAN!"

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus August 01, 2014 6:44 PM  

Oh Buddha, Vox now has the genetic license needed to rage on about the Irish Potato Famine. Oh woe!

And he's enough of an all-purpose heretic to not have to choose simply between Catholic and Prod, so he can probably claim grievance points from both sides of that conflict. (And the English too, when it suits him but not whenever it doesn't.)

I don't know how Pat's going to take it the next time he does his larychmose Irish history thing, and Vox starts up with: "don't tell me what was done to my ancestors!!"

Anonymous Peezy Myurs August 01, 2014 6:51 PM  

Just Wow.Really?

Blogger Wayne Earl August 01, 2014 6:52 PM  

As a Cracker who is native enough to have relatives all over the Dawes roles, i must admit, whipping out one's shiny race card when it suits one's own selfish purpose is a real joy.

Get yer satisfaction on, chief.

Anonymous Doug Wardell August 01, 2014 6:56 PM  

Recently I was hanging out at the bar with some writers and editors at a convention, one of whom is a particularly aggressive liberal. Race and class came up and I eventually mentioned that, no, I'm not the token white privilege guy, I am actually of jewish descent on one side. She said that jews are just white people and I answered for the first time in my life, "That's your white privilege talking." :D Don't get me wrong, I like the woman, but that was priceless.

Anonymous Cederq August 01, 2014 7:01 PM  

But, do you self identify as an Irishman? That's the true measure of a man with huevos...

OpenID simplytimothy August 01, 2014 7:06 PM  

Are you going to come up with an Indian name?

"Dances With Wolves" won't work.


"Running Board" and "Ruffled Feather" are taken .

hmmm....



Anonymous Guitarman August 01, 2014 7:07 PM  

As a French-Irish-Indian, welcome to the tribe.

Blogger Tom Kratman August 01, 2014 7:08 PM  

"When my father found out he was at least half, and more like 3/4, Irish he said, "FOR FUCK SAKE, I"M NOT IRISH!!!. MY MOTHER WAS A GOOD WOMAN!""

There was a certain amount of Irish Need Not Apply. There's even a song to that effect. There were a number of reasons for whatever discrimination there was, not all of it all that hard to understand. They did like a drink. They did like to fight. They, as with pretty much any new minority, anywhere, sometimes gravitated to crime. Perhaps almost worst of all, they were Catholic, at a time before it was demonstrated that Catholics are pretty good at granting what's God's to God and what's Caesar's to Caesar.. Worst of all, though, was that they were politically astute in ways that could be, and sometimes were, dangerous. Mark Twain wrote somewhere that if the Jews of the Austro-Hungarian empire had had even a small fraction of the political acumen of the Irish they'd be running the place.

On the plus side, they would fight the country's wars gleefully and give up their sons without counting.

Anonymous corvinus August 01, 2014 7:09 PM  

It's possible. And I don't have the necessary background in genetics to understand how it all works. But it really does make sense in terms of physical appearance. When I first introduced my Finnish husband to my family and told him our background on that side was English, he looked at me like, "You've got to be kidding," but he didn't want to stir anything up. After we got the genetic results, he said it made a lot more sense.

@Stickwick

If your immediate paternal line looks that Southern European, then the Macedonian ancestry would have to be recent. Macedonian soldiers from the ancient Roman Empire could leave their genes in Britain, and pass their Y chromosomes down to the present, but their Balkan physical appearance would have been diluted over so many people that all their descendants would look English.

Blogger Tom Kratman August 01, 2014 7:10 PM  

"Are you going to come up with an Indian name?"

I think he should adopt something like, "Pokes-Lefites-In-Eye."

Anonymous ENthePeasant August 01, 2014 7:23 PM  

"Worst of all, though, was that they were politically astute in ways that could be, and sometimes were, dangerous."

That's interesting. With the exception of my father all six of his siblings that survived into their 20s became union bosses or unelected political appointees. My Grandfather jumped onto the New Deal Band Wagon in 33 which landed him a plum political assignment. He had been exiled to a farm in Northern Minn. During the late 1920s to avoid charges of extortion and misappropriation of funds while working for the state of Minn. When he came back the Dems were solidly in power and he was back in the high life. Is that the kind of stuff you're talking about?

Anonymous Krul August 01, 2014 7:30 PM  

simplytimothy - Are you going to come up with an Indian name?

Indian name generator

"Soft Creeping Fish"

Anonymous MC August 01, 2014 7:33 PM  

There should be an entire thread to come up with an Indian name for VD.

Blogger Markku August 01, 2014 7:33 PM  

"Makes Rabbit Hop"

Anonymous Two Dogs F*cking August 01, 2014 7:35 PM  

As a newly reborn member of our glorious First Nations, how do you feel about the name of the Washington Football Team?

Anonymous zen0 August 01, 2014 7:39 PM  

Markku August 01, 2014 7:33 PM

"Makes Rabbit Hop"


Markku!

Thank Goodness!

I thought you were dead!

Anonymous Mr. Nightstick August 01, 2014 7:42 PM  

I was thinking more like Squats-on-Rabbits.

Blogger Markku August 01, 2014 7:43 PM  

I thought you were dead!

Some time kemosabe get tired.

Little voice say kemosabe: If you click link, link say same old same old.

Anonymous Guy from Amazon August 01, 2014 7:43 PM  

Re: Using Indian Blood in an argument.

I attended a top 10 law school. I got in through a great LSAT score and great undergrad grades at my low tier state college. By chance the law school was near my undergrad school.

During a class debate on AA a one percenter started yelling at me with some stuff about African Americans get the shaft all through life...and therefore they have to go to inferior state undergrad colleges like--wait for it--MINE!

Background: my school was okay and had a high black population, but the admin there lost their mind and started covering up black on white crime including rapes and murder. It hit the media hard. It's the only ghetto black school she could think of, since all the blacks in the law school were Ivies or Duke or Macalester.

I played the 'Sweet, you owe me reparations' card, and not only didn't it work to win arguments, but the hyper left doubled down and labeled me a KKK wizard for daring to attend the same undergrad as street blacks. I know it makes no sense, but the real left make no sense. They just accuse and screech.

So don't expect your blood to be an argument winner.

Anonymous Stickwick August 01, 2014 7:46 PM  

corvinus: If your immediate paternal line looks that Southern European, then the Macedonian ancestry would have to be recent.

You're probably right. Well, as Vox and others have commented here, official stories aren't always the real stories.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza August 01, 2014 7:54 PM  

Smites rabbit

Unholy racist purge, shame on the SFWA

Anonymous zen0 August 01, 2014 7:56 PM  

@ VD

We've known that certain state birth records were almost certainly false for about 20 years now.

You mean like, oh, I don't know, Hawaii's?

Blogger Tom Kratman August 01, 2014 7:57 PM  

"Is that the kind of stuff you're talking about?" That, but also undermining the democratic process through identity politics and high organizational ability, both enhanced by an Irish meme concerning the Great Famine* and what government indifference could mean to those on the lower end.

*Note, here, that British governmental and Anglo-Irish Protestant indifference has been much exagerated. Was the government response incompetent? Well, yes, and how good are we, today, at providing famine relief until after the need has largely past, and then continuing it to the destruction of local agriculture? Conversely, Ireland is replete with "famine walls" and even the odd baronial castle (see, forex, Castle Oliver) put up largely to provide work for the Irish so they could buy food, and at _great_ private cost to the individual Anglo-Irish families providing pride-maintaining make work rather than ruin Irish pride. They didn't get much gratitude for it, either, in the long run.

OpenID pancakeloach August 01, 2014 8:04 PM  

I like Makes Rabbit Hop, it sounds so innocent! >:D

@Guy from Amazon, the point is not to use blood as winning arguments, but rather to force the leftist to engage in blatant hypocrisy: you only count as a sainted minority as long as you remain on the leftist plantation and spout the party line on command. One hint of ideological independence and you're Uncle Tom-Oreo-Race Traitor'd no matter your skin color, everybody knows that.

Just like everyone who comments here is an angry old white man, despite the fact that a not insignificant number of us don't have Y chromosomes and/or are in our 20s.

Anonymous Myrddin August 01, 2014 8:06 PM  

[D]on't expect your blood to be an argument winner.

It's not about converting the bunnies, it's about exposing their nature to the innocent bystanders.

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein August 01, 2014 8:06 PM  

"Have you heard the theory that Cherokee are of middle east origin?"


"I'd like you to meet my wife and sister. and there was one girl standing there."
-- Bill Hicks

Uh Oh!!

Anonymous Pellegri August 01, 2014 8:08 PM  

Semi-related OT: http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/08/01/Swedes-to-remove-the-concept-of-race-from-all-legislation

Meanwhile, in Sweden...

Anonymous Pellegri August 01, 2014 8:10 PM  

Oops. Lemme fix that: Meanwhile, in Sweden...

Anonymous Loan Ranger August 01, 2014 8:10 PM  

I think he should adopt something like, "Pokes-Lefites-In-Eye."

Woaster of Wabbit

Anonymous Mr. Stubby August 01, 2014 8:20 PM  

If anyone is interested: From Ancient America - Anomalous DNA in the Cherokee

http://ancientamerica.com/anomalous-dna-in-the-cherokee/

My great grandmother is Cherokee. Her name was Grace Ann Dougherty born in 1898. You'll find the "bold" in the article. See was 71 in this picture: http://tinyurl.com/omtxrqa

OpenID 13c4eed4-19dd-11e4-8e5c-d72fae13c938 August 01, 2014 8:36 PM  

Third Monkey and Don I was just browsing through the comments and saw the comments you made around four hours ago, that you both may have a welsh ancestor in common that came over as either an indentured servant or slave. Was his first name Evan? If so we may be related.

Blogger James Dixon August 01, 2014 8:38 PM  

> The actual "First Peoples" are long gone. American Indian tribes should in fact be called the Immediately Previous Peoples.

Yeah. The oldest known inhabitants of the area now known as West Virginia were the Mound Builders. The American Indians came much later.

Anonymous jack August 01, 2014 8:40 PM  

@VD: I know the great-uncle who is the son of a Mexican revolutionary who escaped the assassination of Pancho Villa. He's still alive.

Last name be Lopez, maybe? Reason for asking. One of my wife's from time past was of that name. Her grandfather rode with Villa. I met the gentleman a few times before he died. Showed me his rifle and sword that had accounted for a number of dead bodies during that period in his life. Even at his advanced age you could tell not to cross swords with him. Impressive guy.

Anonymous ENthePeasant August 01, 2014 8:59 PM  

"That, but also undermining the democratic process through identity politics and high organizational ability"

Well, I've talked about this here before but they were largely teamster officials and very competent. One of my uncles was ousted when Fitzsimmons did away with Hoffa, but the other two teamsters held on by going along and making themselves very useful. The ousted Teamster found his way into the Tile Setters union where he retired. Identity politics, ehhh??? The rest were in other unions. By the time I was twelve the phrase "working man" was banned from all holiday conversations. That phrase came to mean, "bullshit" to me, much like "the children" is used today.

Blogger WATYF August 01, 2014 9:28 PM  

Also, this puts Vox's anti-immigration in a whole new perspective.

This joke wins the thread. Sorry, guys.

WATYF

OpenID simplytimothy August 01, 2014 9:32 PM  

West Virginia were the Mound Builders

The oldest known inhabitants of the area now known as West Virginia were the Mound Builders.

OT random thought.

Looking at those mounds all over the earth, I wonder if they represent a pining by fallen dispersed humanity for the lost dream of Babylon.


Anonymous kfg August 01, 2014 9:35 PM  

" The oldest known inhabitants of the area now known as West Virginia were the Mound Builders. The American Indians came much later."

You appear to be confusing cultures with races.

Anonymous The other skeptic August 01, 2014 9:51 PM  

And now it seems there's lots about autism we don't know.

Anonymous Don August 01, 2014 9:56 PM  

Nope sorry I meant the Choctaw not the Welsh although I am Welsh. I'd have to look up his circumstances to see if he was indentured or sold into slavery. I know one of my ancestors were by his father.

One thing our family has been known for since colonial times (the Welsh branch) is red hair. So if you're a red headed leftie we're probably cousins or you look like most of my cousins so close enough.

Anonymous Lowly Lurker August 01, 2014 9:57 PM  

Vox said:

English-Irish
Native American ... enough to qualify for membership in most Indian tribes


Welcome to the club... minus the beaner part.

Blogger James Dixon August 01, 2014 10:04 PM  

> You appear to be confusing cultures with races.

We don't honestly know if the Mound Builders and the American Indians of the 18th century we of the same race or not. It's a disputed topic. What we do know is that the American Indians the settlers encountered in the eastern US had no knowledge of them.

Anonymous kh123 August 01, 2014 10:11 PM  

Will be expecting posts on the 6 counties and the Shankill to be a regular reading from here on out. Tiocfaidh ar la and all that.

Anonymous kh123 August 01, 2014 10:12 PM  

...And see - true Ulster there. Drunk and commenting.

Anonymous GreyS August 01, 2014 10:23 PM  

Please be sure to weigh in on the Washington Redskins controversy before the season starts.

Anonymous Clovis Pointe August 01, 2014 10:24 PM  

kfg, dunno about the mound builders, but Kennewick Man didn't seem to be related to any tribe ever encountered. He'd been in the ground for a long time, too.

Whoever the first residents of Texas were, their craniums were unlike anyone who has lived there during recorded history.

Anonymous kfg August 01, 2014 10:24 PM  

"We don't honestly know if the Mound Builders and the American Indians of the 18th century we of the same race or not."

That's better.

"Looking at those mounds all over the earth . . ."

. . . one might conclude that the mound is a pretty fundamental structure.

Blogger Tom Kratman August 01, 2014 10:36 PM  

"Woaster of Wabbit"

Reminds me; a theme song that started when accessing the site might be to the good. I suggest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGhQ2BDt4VE at about :13.

Blogger Tom Kratman August 01, 2014 10:52 PM  

"That phrase came to mean, "bullshit" to me, much like "the children" is used today."

"First of all, words had to lose their ordinary meanings..."

Anonymous Harsh August 01, 2014 10:54 PM  

Please be sure to weigh in on the Washington Redskins controversy before the season starts.

Redskins isn't nearly offensive enough. They need to come up with something new.

Anonymous Jack Amok August 01, 2014 11:18 PM  

How, Kimosabe.

Okay, now let's turn this place into an Indian Gaming Casino.

Anonymous WaterBoy August 01, 2014 11:18 PM  

Tom Kratman: "Reminds me; a theme song that started when accessing the site might be to the good. I suggest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGhQ2BDt4VE at about :13"

Needs moar metal! (about :15)

Anonymous Obvious August 01, 2014 11:36 PM  

Are you sure that your brother's results and yours would be the same?

Anonymous Harsh August 01, 2014 11:48 PM  

Are you sure that your brother's results and yours would be the same?

Says the man who never knew his father.

Blogger Tom Kratman August 02, 2014 12:02 AM  

Really Vox's call, WB, but I, personally, am more of a traditionalist.

It's not bad, though.

Anonymous Red Comet August 02, 2014 12:27 AM  

The Indian results aren't all that surprising. Aren't most white Americans whose family were in America pre-early 20th century at least partially Indian? A lot of white settlers took Indian wives...or engaged in what we'll call "less savory reproductive strategies."

Blogger buzzardist August 02, 2014 12:33 AM  

Kennewick Man didn't seem to be related to any tribe ever encountered.

Mere examinations of bone structures are rarely definitive, but when the Kennewick Man tussle between scientists wanting to examine the bones and tribes wanting to rebury them was going on, I recall one examination of the skull suggested that Kennewick Man was probably more closely related to the Ainu people (native peoples of Japan and other parts of East Asia), who actually have more Caucasian than Mongoloid features. One of the arguments at the time was that this individual couldn't be claimed as an ancestor of these tribes because he came from a radically different people group. But the law really didn't seem to care about that. Any ancient bones found in the Americas are automatically granted under law to Native American groups to rebury. The law doesn't particularly care much what the actual history or science is.

Blogger buzzardist August 02, 2014 12:41 AM  

The Indian results aren't all that surprising. Aren't most white Americans whose family were in America pre-early 20th century at least partially Indian? A lot of white settlers took Indian wives...or engaged in what we'll call "less savory reproductive strategies."

This is one of the great myths in American ancestry. Recent looks at the records and at broad DNA samplings have shown that relatively few American families (less than ten percent) have genuine Native American ancestry, despite a majority of families with pre-20th century roots in the U.S. having family lore about an Indian grandfather or grandmother tucked somewhere a few generations back.

Anonymous Chief Spreading Eagle August 02, 2014 12:59 AM  

Totally OT but I am reading some Talbot Mundy story on Oyster and loving it. Vox if I read one of your stories on oyster will you see anything for it?

Now for some choice names, Spreading Eagle, Little Wooden Legs, Four 'Skin, Sleeps With Great Sky Bunny. All completely authentic feel free to use any but Spreading Eagle. That's my totally not made up name.

Serious question Vox, I'm kind of going through something similar so I'm curious as to how you feel. If you do find your actual band do you think you'll have any emotional connection? Do you want to know more about the culture? I was kind of embarassed to find I had this whole other cultural ethnic background some of them even had accomplished notable stuff and I knew less than nothing about them. I've thought about trying to learn some of the language and history of them but it feels like play acting. Hell, my (real Norwegian) grandmother used to laugh about the Finns and Sami in a good natured way. It's an odd feeling and I wondered if anyone else had a similar reaction.

Anonymous Daniel August 02, 2014 1:00 AM  

"For reasons related to World War II..."

Let me guess. A Navajo codetalker with a knack for massive trans-Pacific coastal invasions was recruited for a top-secret mission, but had his records changed to indicate he was Japanese-American, and enlisted with Minoru Genda's clandestine loyalist planning committee to overthrow the U.S. The mission was codenamed "Light the Minoru" and the codetalker was not expected to survive. In the course of his double agency, he wound up wooing a number of the wives of high ranking Japanese officials, with only three of his romantic targets rejecting him in favor of their husbands.

The first dame he lost was in Nagasaki, the second was in Hiroshima, and the third in Tokyo. Other than that handful of setbacks, the Navajo was able to successfully pass as Japanese and secretly thwart the master plans of the Japanese to do a coastal invasion of the United States.

Because of his remarkable success as a U.S. intelligence agent in this extremely sensitive area, he was approached by both the Navy and Air Force and asked for his strategic opinion on locations for a series of atomic bombings of the Japanese mainland.

"Nagasaki," he said, and they did. When he saw what the bomb had done to his love interest's hometown, he was impressed.

"Hiroshima," he said next, and they bombed it too. With the special glee of a man on the cusp of total recovery of past failures, he practically shouted, "Tokyo next! Tokyo next!"

The U.S. officials shrugged their shoulders and apologized. "We are out of A-bombs. Sorry."

Disappointed at the lower-than-expected mayhem, but otherwise pleased with his service, the Navajo left the Japanese ruse behind after the war, returned home, and found a nice gal to settle down with and start a family. Although honorably discharged, the full record of his military service could never be committed to his personal records.

The woman in Tokyo who was spared the atomic attack happened to be a double agent herself, working on behalf of the U.S. via her Phillipine citizenship. The woman's name was Maglalang, and she would go on to become the grandmother of Michelle Malkin.

So, in this instance, history neither repeats nor rhymes, but it is instead a riddle, wrapped in an enigma, folded into a haiku, and baked into a fortune cookie.

Very easy to see how the Official Story would get a lot of things wrong. I'm surprised It never told you that you were Jewish, what with your entire success being due to that billion-dollar trust fund and rampant nepotism.

Honestly, I'm curious to know how much closer my complete nonsense story is to the real thing, compared to the Official Story.

Anonymous rycamor August 02, 2014 1:49 AM  

Even at "diversity", I'm sure this blog readership and its headliner beat Scalzi and P.Z. Myers' group hands down. There's a good chance that this poster and his pickney will soon have citizenship in one of those dusky Caribbean island nations, due to his wife's nationality. Evil laugh...

Anonymous Noah B. August 02, 2014 2:24 AM  

"So you could say I'm Red-Yellow transracial."

Red and yellow, kill a fellow...

Anonymous frenchy August 02, 2014 2:48 AM  

@ Christian,

"My thoughts exactly.
Anytime someone brings up slavery I always think back to one of the first slave owners in America... he was black."

We need to be totally honest. The first slave owner in the colonies WAS a black man, and because of his greed and desire to keep another man in bondage, he began the institution of slavery in the U.S. Only indentured servitude existed before that. The bastard.

I find it horrific that this is not taught (but not surprised), especially to blacks.

http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~arihuang/academic/abg/slavery/history.html

http://topconservativenews.com/2012/03/americas-first-slave-owner-was-a-black-man/

That being said, it still did not justify the institution.

Blogger Tom Kratman August 02, 2014 3:07 AM  

"I always think back to one of the first slave owners in America... he was black"

Anthony Johnson. It's a complex story. IIRC, he started as an indentured servant for a period of years, rather than as a slave. Upon his release, he worked his ass off, acquired a substantial farm, and had a number of indentured servants himself, several of them white. He became the first legally registered slave owner in Virginia as a result of winning a count case to keep as a slave another black who claimed he was free.

Blogger Tom Kratman August 02, 2014 3:09 AM  

court, not count. Also, there were likely slaves here before Johnson won his court case.

Anonymous PhillipGeorge(c)2014 August 02, 2014 3:20 AM  

Vox, I sympathize with your surprise at being a persecuted native American.

Imagine the surprise of Vladimir Putin; who discovers himself to be Lord Protector and Defender of the Holy Russian Empire - leaders of the free world.

And a man with the ability to turn many of Europe's, as well north American, cities into seas of glass.

History hasn't been this interesting since England was a republic or God gave Cyrus the green light to take down Belshazzar's party lights.

Belshazzar represents suspended youth. A generation who could never grow up. Babylon in its splendor was brought down in a single night, it didn't take four - 4GW.

Blogger Wes August 02, 2014 3:26 AM  

How 'bout this for a good injun name:

Salutes-with-a-Finger

Anonymous Wyrd August 02, 2014 3:48 AM  

"He became the first legally registered slave owner in Virginia as a result of winning a count case to keep as a slave another black who claimed he was free."

Must have been an Oreo.

Anonymous Skip August 02, 2014 7:08 AM  

"Even at "diversity", I'm sure this blog readership and its headliner beat Scalzi and P.Z. Myers' group hands down. "

I'm supposed to be part Australian Aboriginal so how many races does that leave unaccounted for?

Blogger Cataline Sergius August 02, 2014 7:12 AM  

If anyone wants to find out about their genetic background on the cheap. Join the National Geographic Genographic ProjectGenographic Project.

You too can find out that your family background is just as boring and whitebread Anglo-Slaxon as mine. Though with a touch of Homo-Neanderthalensis, which I have to be frank isn't good for victim card.

Blogger Glen Filthie August 02, 2014 8:05 AM  

I dunno why this makes me laugh so hard. Maybe it's all the race whoring and turd polishing going on. Maybe it's all the yapping mutts claiming genetic kinship with wolves...I dunno.

But a buddy adopted a native girl half a lifetime ago. She grew up in a white family that said NOT ONE WORD about race. For some reason, she never brought the subject up and the parents saw no need to either. Kids have better things to do and bigger problems to worry about, I suspect.
Anyhoo - when she was around 11 or 12 she found out she was native indian - and burst into tears. It completely, utterly ruined her day! She thought she was a Filipino or Polynesian! HAR HAR HAR!!! HAR HAR HAR!!!
No worries Vox, I still think you're a vile, eeeeeeevil racist and possibly an agent of Satan as well. Keep up the good work.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler August 02, 2014 8:34 AM  

Well, that explains the difficulty with Socrates. Socrates was a Greek and you are half-barbarian. Not completely European. Most of the American Indians are of Asiatic origins. And the Irish are Gaelic not Teutonic. So this explains your erratic behavior.

Anonymous VD August 02, 2014 8:51 AM  

Socrates was a Greek and you are half-barbarian.

From Socrates's perspective, I am all-barbarian, not being Greek.

So this explains your erratic behavior.

Seriously, Spartan? MY behavior is erratic?

Anonymous Monkey Boy August 02, 2014 9:14 AM  

God your part Irish Vox. The most useless and destructive white ethic group there is. I almost feel sorry for you.

So do you have no Italian ancestry either?

Anonymous Lulabelle August 02, 2014 10:13 AM  

Welcome to the Irish Indian Club. *passes a piece of buffalo jerky*

Blogger JACIII August 02, 2014 10:32 AM  

"The new white privilege is white-appearance privilege. "

We call that "passing" hereabouts.

The whole SFWA thing makes way more sense now: The truly white privileged of the SFWA sensed VD was no true Irishman and booted him from their patriarchal klan.

OpenID thetroll August 02, 2014 10:43 AM  

>> Was this from 23andme? > No.

So what tests are people recommending then? I did 23andme and got back J1c1 / R1a1a with 2.9% Neanderthal, which was only surprising because for years there's been a running joke that I have all the social graces you'd expect from someone half Viking and half Tatar according to family folklore, and well look at that the family folklore is right. But always interested in getting other opinions!

Anonymous Varenius August 02, 2014 2:02 PM  

If anyone wants to find out about their genetic background on the cheap. Join the National Geographic Genographic Project.

This looks like a really good testing source -- it avoids the problems at 23 And Me. You aren't signing over rights for data-mining, and no health information is collected.

Anonymous A Visitor August 02, 2014 2:06 PM  

I'll start off by saying this is probably one of my favorite posts and comment threads to date. It's pure gold in so many ways. I tried commenting this morning but my phone didn't want to cooperate and there was no way I was getting up out of my warm bed to comment in front of my computer. Yes, it's a Saturday.

"I have to admit, I'm rather looking forward to the next person to resort to the "well, are you a Native American?" argument during a debate concerning the evils of immigration." Film it too!

"I find Native Americans very often share similarities in appearance with Asians." Quechuan Indians in Ecuador state that (last I heard when I interacted with them in 2006) anthropologists think they may be descended from Orientals. In other words, Mother Nature is a mad scientist, Jerry.

"I know the great-uncle who is the son of a Mexican revolutionary who escaped the assassination of Pancho Villa. He's still alive." Get an oral history from him while you still can. That's some serious family lineage to be proud of right there.

"My brother has a very good idea, but hasn't nailed it down 100 percent yet. Knowing him, he'll join the tribe and be elected its chief within a decade." Encourage him to do that. That'd be hilarious and epic at the same time.

@Don, I had to look up Athabascan. I had never heard that before.

"On my mother's side, our ancestor was a Scottish officer who was captured by Cromwell (Purtain bastard, may he burn in hell) and sent to Connecticut, where he worked in a steel mill." LOL at the Cromwell bit.

"I wonder how many of us actually have the heritage we think we have." I, for one, can say three of the four groups I'm supposedly descended from are actually 100% right on.

My paternal father's side is Swiss. Using genealogical techniques and prior documents (not Ancestry.com, fyi), I was able to trace us back to about 1500 to a certain town in Switzerland that shall remain nameless. By this process, I even found our family crest for that side. I was at a party one night in Madrid and a Swiss guy came up to me and started speaking to me in German. I told him, in German, that I don't speak it. We continued in Spanish and he asked where I was from. I told him the States and he stammered, "But you look Swiss!" I told him my ancestors were.

My paternal mother's side is French. Supposedly before she died, she had a bunch of documents my dad once saw that dated their arrival Stateside to 1807. Unfortunately, after she died, my grandpa (still alive) auctioned off his house and everything in it including those documents. I've been trying to get anything out of him regarding her side but he's not an easy man to say the least to talk to.

My maternal father's side we were told is Swedish. I recently found something that shows compelling evidence they were in fact Finnish, not Swedish. This was buttressed by the fact that my grandma did confirm the name I found was his dad.

My maternal mother's side is German. My grandma, still alive, gave me a bunch of her own research that proves as much.

" Usually when I'm on the beach, wine glass in hand. I think of the criticism to which I am subjected and a single tear makes its salty way down my cheek." You don't cry for the grapes and the fact that many people can't enjoy such a fine glass of Italian wine like you? ELITIST!!!!

"during the election a disgruntled staff person got in touch with me and told me the Congressman was actually Portuguese and not native American." Funny, if true.

"The fact that it has an MSDS sheet to begin with should make you cry." Remember training on MSDS sheets (for those of you that had it) and how to report swallowing something poisonous contained on said sheets? Where would Chef Boyardee fall on that sheet? Corrosive?

Anonymous Varenius August 02, 2014 2:13 PM  

My maternal father's side we were told is Swedish. I recently found something that shows compelling evidence they were in fact Finnish, not Swedish.

Probably Swedish by nationality, Finnish by ethnicity.

Anonymous A Visitor August 02, 2014 2:13 PM  

"Have you heard the theory that Cherokee are of middle east origin?" Kind of like the prevailing theory that the Basque are actually from somewhere in the ME? Nobody knows where the hell they're from but the Basques are kinda pissed about that theory, last I heard.

"I think it was established in the previous thread that you are Mestizo, not Hispanic. The latter would require your native language to be Spanish." To paraphrase from two skits Charlie Murphy appeared in, "You wrong Chad!" This side of the Atlantic Hispanic is anyone descended from a Spanish speaking people (i.e. Nicaraguans, Mexicans, Bolivians, Guatemalans, etc.). On Vox's side of the Atlantic, the only Hispanics they know of are Spaniards, I kid you not.

"Also, this puts Vox's anti-immigration in a whole new perspective." Besides claiming first people rights (whatever the hell that counts for these days as 3rd worlders have no problem discriminating against native Americans like myself (I am a native American, I was born here after all) and American Indians, I don't see anything earth shattering. Perhaps it just proves the efficacy of the forced assimilation we did to Indians in the late 19th century.
One of my buddies is Apache and yet if you didn't know it you'd think he's "Hispanic" by his name. Amazingly, the man can hold his liquor well!

@Varenius How can it still be in its infancy? It's been a few years since they've mapped the human genome in its entirety. One would think that a proper way of tracing ancestry via it would have been developed now.

"The women of the Greatest Generation seem to have a false paternity rate of about 20%" How humiliating! I can't imagine the horror of finding that out. Thankfully, personally speaking, most of my family have a certain facial feature genetic to my father. For those of my siblings that don't, facial appearances and voices are similar enough that on my brother's wedding night I actually got mistaken for him a few times. I wouldn't be surprised if my sisters experience the same thing.

"So did you falsify the historical records and genetic test, or just go back in time and change history?" Hell, Vox had better have done the latter. And Schwarzenegger thought he had a monopoly on time-displacement fields...

"Many of my older relatives refused to admit these ladies were Irish even on their death beds. But it was pretty clear I was of Irish heritage." Damn, that's hardcore.

"Now we know where Vox gets some of his aggressive side. It's leftover from what the Injuns did to Custer." Remind me never to encircle Vox with a group of men with automatic weapons. I wouldn't be surprised if a gigantic arrow from space with MIRV like objects would come in and crush us all.

"We've known that certain state birth records were almost certainly false for about 20 years now. But the truth was impossible to come by since everyone involved was dead, in some cases for decades. So this is the first absolute confirmation that the Official Story was, in fact, false."

Were you told this as a kid (that the false records were true)? If so, did you feel anger when you finally just found out that it officially was false?

Anonymous A Visitor August 02, 2014 2:13 PM  

"I grew up in California and no one ever really talked about their lineage but later on I found out that the Irish had supposedly faced some minor discrimination. When my father found out he was at least half, and more like 3/4, Irish he said, "FOR FUCK SAKE, I"M NOT IRISH!!!. MY MOTHER WAS A GOOD WOMAN!""

Working there last year was like Neo taking the Red Pill in terms of craziness, among them race. There was this one chick I knew that had a Mexican mother and, ergo, was half-Mexican, became a skinhead to spite her mom. Another native Californian I knew didn't seem too interested in her heritage, though she told me it once. She preferred to call herself an American mutt. "My mother was a good woman!" Damn. Was he lied to and told he was English or something?

@ Doug that sounds hilarious! Film it next time. In fact, I'd encourage all the Ilk of any "aggrieved" racial descent or (for those of you lucky enough to be) race to pul that card out any time a liberal does that. Document it. Vox, you might want to consider opening a new sub set of the blog just for anecdotes like that!

This isn't a shot at Kratman. I'm saying that simply because he brought it up. According to one journal all that NINA stuff was a myth. Thoughts anyone? On a separate note, I like Kratman's idea for your Indian name. Or how about @#$!s on Leftists?

"This is one of the great myths in American ancestry. Recent looks at the records and at broad DNA samplings have shown that relatively few American families (less than ten percent) have genuine Native American ancestry, despite a majority of families with pre-20th century roots in the U.S. having family lore about an Indian grandfather or grandmother tucked somewhere a few generations back."

Beat me to it! Everyone always has a Cherokee princess great grandma or whatever. My best friend has some Indian ancestry (he's the only one that shows it in his family). His wife is ethnically Polish and their son is white as cotton (well, not that quite). He claims it was Cherokee heritage.

@Chief Spreading Eagle

Every time I've found out something about my family's ancestry, I've wanted to learn more about them. When I was on Facebook, I Facebooked every one with my family's surname in Switzerland (that's actually in part how I was able to trace them back by determining which of the guys with my ancestor's first name (there were two of them) was the one that came to the States). Learning the language and history of them isn't play acting. It serves two purposes: 1) It helps you further understand where you are as an American (it's one of the reasons I feel such a deep loyalty to the state I live in, as my family has per census records lived here from birth to death (each generation)), something I wouldn't have known had I not looked into it. 2) On a more serious level, with everything about to go to hell in a hand basket stateside, it might not hurt to have connections in the old country that'd be willing to help you resettle, should you choose that path.

The first dame he lost was in Nagasaki, the second was in Hiroshima, and the third in Tokyo. Like this guy?

Anonymous A Visitor August 02, 2014 2:28 PM  

@Varenius,

Could the inverse be possible? The death certificate I found points to his father or mother (I don't remember which and don't have it in front of me right now) being from Finland.

Blogger Markku August 02, 2014 2:29 PM  

Probably Swedish by nationality, Finnish by ethnicity.

I'd guess the exact opposide. The Finlandssvensk, who are Finnish by nationality, still self-identify as Swedes. Even the name says that; "Swedes of Finland". Or, Svenska-talande bättre folk as WE like to call our most hated minority, just after the gypsies.

Anonymous Varenius August 02, 2014 3:08 PM  

A Visitor: How can it still be in its infancy? It's been a few years since they've mapped the human genome in its entirety. One would think that a proper way of tracing ancestry via it would have been developed now.

But the human genome map only gives a broad overview of what DNA sequences are where in the genome, not their significance or function. This is slowly being filled in, but still has far to go. Likewise for ancestry, my understanding is that the markers they use are still pretty broad/coarse, so they can point to general regions/groups, but not much that's more refined than that. So I would be cautious about concluding too much from these tests.

Anonymous Varenius August 02, 2014 3:22 PM  

Markku, I was thinking of the period when Finland was ruled by Sweden -- if Visitor's ancestor immigrated then, my description might apply. But you are probably more on target.

Would Mannerheim be considered Finlandssvensk?

Anonymous A Visitor August 02, 2014 3:22 PM  

@ Varenius Thanks for the explanation. Science isn't my discipline.

@Markku I hadn't any idea! Thanks! If I were to give you the name, could you run with it (in your spare time) and see what you come up with?

Blogger Markku August 02, 2014 3:30 PM  

Just give the four last letters, if you don't want to give the entirety of it. Chances are I'll recognize a Finlandssvenk name just from them.

Anonymous A Visitor August 02, 2014 3:33 PM  

I'm looking for the damn thing as we speak (I don't have what one could call an orderly form of organizing things). Once I find it, I'll post it. Thanks in advance.

Anonymous FrankNorman August 02, 2014 3:36 PM  

The mental image of Vox as an angry Injun on the warpath has a good deal of humour potential.

Would the Irish balance things out in terms of booze tolerance?

Anonymous A Visitor August 02, 2014 3:54 PM  

Ok, Markku, I found it!

This is where things get interesting. According to my grandmother's meticulously researched data, it indicates the maternal grandmother of my deceased grandfather was born in Sweden, Johnson.

However, what I found contradicts this. Johnson was born in Vasa, Finland as was my grandfather's granddad, Smith. They were both born the 1860s (that's all I feel like saying in an open forum).

Thoughts?

Blogger Markku August 02, 2014 4:06 PM  

It's impossible to say what name that "Smith" originally was, before it was Anglicized, but Johnson was almost certainly Johansson. Sounds very much like at least one of them was Finlandssvensk. And it is very rare for them to marry Finns, so my guess was that "Smith" was one too.

Blogger Corvinus . August 02, 2014 4:22 PM  

I'd guess the exact opposide. The Finlandssvensk, who are Finnish by nationality, still self-identify as Swedes. Even the name says that; "Swedes of Finland". Or, Svenska-talande bättre folk as WE like to call our most hated minority, just after the gypsies.

If most Finns spoke Swedish instead of Finnish, and were Catholics rather than Lutherans, you'd basically have Ireland.

Anonymous A Visitor August 02, 2014 4:38 PM  

@Markku

Much appreciated! Are there any resources you'd recommend for Finnish genealogy, specifically Finlandssvensk?

Blogger Markku August 02, 2014 4:49 PM  

Much appreciated! Are there any resources you'd recommend for Finnish genealogy, specifically Finlandssvensk?

No idea, never been interested in genealogy. I know absolutely nothing about my family further than my grandparents.

Anonymous Don August 02, 2014 4:54 PM  

Markku - Do you know of a decent English translation of Antti Mikonpoika Keksi's poems? He's one of my Finnish ancestors. Then after a while all of them were born in Finland or Sweden but die in Norway. What the hell?

Anonymous LL August 02, 2014 4:58 PM  

My sister worked on the Navajo Rez and we're 50/50 Korean-white. Most of her patients thought she was Navajo, so as others have stated, it's no surprise with your brother's appearance and your assumption (family history) of Asian descent.

Blogger Markku August 02, 2014 5:16 PM  

Don, nope. This person would seem to be of adequate cultural interest to Finns and Swedes, hence it is only translated to Swedish. Also, having checked the main poem, this is - how to explain it? - excessively oral, or dialectic, poetry.

Like, imagine a Scotsman composing a poem using very Scottish type of speech. Not to be written down, but to be spoken. If you try to translate it, so much of the point disappears. I'm looking at the Swedish translation, and this is exactly what has happened. It becomes just plain.

Anonymous Don August 02, 2014 5:33 PM  

Markku - Thanks, I tried using google translate and got gibberish.

It's odd to hear it spoken too. When I hear Norwegian I go, 'I almost got that'. I watched a Finnish movie and was scratching my head the whole time. The rhythm and stuff is all funky.

Anonymous Giuseppe August 02, 2014 5:36 PM  

The last paragraph of this post actually just made me LOL! A genuine actual LOL.

Blogger Markku August 02, 2014 5:41 PM  

I read it in Finnish, and still a lot of the time I didn't understand what is going on. The poem is composed obviosly for the people of that village, of that time. It speaks of specific events and people (by name) as if the listener is supposed to be familiar with those events, and know who those people are. Plus, it uses many archaic expressions, the meaning of which I don't know.

Anonymous Varenius August 02, 2014 5:44 PM  

Markku, is your national hero Mannerheim considered Finlandssvensk?

Blogger Markku August 02, 2014 5:51 PM  

Markku, is your national hero Mannerheim considered Finlandssvensk?

Yes, if you mean "considered" as "is unambiguously definition". However, if you mean, have I ever heard someone CALL him that, no.

Anonymous Varenius August 02, 2014 5:59 PM  

Yes, I doubted it would be publicly acknowledged if true. Of course, you could also say he was ultimately Finnlanddeutsch...

Blogger Tom Kratman August 02, 2014 6:04 PM  

A Visitor:

One tends to be extremely skeptical of modern revisionist history. Leaving aside the logical flaws of Jensen's article (no that people weren't bothered by, say, French Catholics doesn't really say anything about Irish Catholics, nor does it matter that we had no trouble with Irish Protestants; it seems to have taken both), there is fair evidence for it, including ads placed in the New York Times.

Now the degree of it, one could argue about, but it does seem to have happened. On the other hand, the Irish can hold a grudge. It is entirly possible it's exagerrated.

Anonymous Hunsdon August 02, 2014 7:10 PM  

I don't know about NINA, but I do know that Thomas Nast thought---and drew---the Irish to be subhuman monkeys. Orcs, pretty much.

Blogger James Dixon August 02, 2014 9:43 PM  

> That's better.

Completely ignoring the last sentence, of course. Look, the Mound Builders were an important enough piece of our history that they were covered in grade school. There's no linkage between them and the Indians that were here when the English settlers arrived. As far as I can tell from a quick Google search, we have no idea if they were the same race or not. At the time I took my history courses, it was assumed they weren't.

1 – 200 of 205 Newer› Newest»

Post a Comment

Rules of the blog
Please do not comment as "Anonymous". Comments by "Anonymous" will be spammed.

<< Home

Newer Posts Older Posts