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Sunday, August 24, 2014

Trolls are not a problem

I found no little amusement in this article in the New York Times about dealing with online trolls. It always surprises me when I learn that other bloggers are genuinely upset by the weird little creatures who occasionally infest their blogs:
ANYONE who has ever been online has witnessed, or been virtually walloped by, a mean comment. “If you’re going to be a blogger, if you’re going to tweet stuff, you better develop a tough skin,” said John Suler, a professor of psychology at Rider University who specializes in what he refers to as cyberpsychology. Some 69 percent of adult social media users said they “have seen people being mean and cruel to others on social network sites,” according to a 2011 report from the Pew Research Center’s Internet and American Life Project.

Posts run the gamut from barbs to sadistic antics by trolls who intentionally strive to distress or provoke. Last week, Zelda Williams, the daughter of Robin Williams, said she was going off Twitter, possibly for good, after brutal tweets by trolls about her father’s death. Yet comments do not even have to be that malevolent to be hurtful. The author Anne Rice signed a petition a few months ago asking Amazon.com to ban anonymous reviews after experiencing “personal insults and harassing posts,” as she put it on the site of the petition, Change.org. Whether you’re a celebrity author or a mom with a décor blog, you’re fair game. Anyone with a Twitter account and a mean streak can try to parachute into your psyche.

In the virtual world, anonymity and invisibility help us feel uninhibited. Some people are inspired to behave with greater kindness; others unleash their dark side. Trolls, who some researchers think could be mentally unbalanced, say the kinds of things that do not warrant deep introspection; their singular goal is to elicit pain.
The singular goal of the troll is to elicit pain? I don't think that is entirely correct, but that is certainly one reason why we haven't seen all that much troll activity here despite the considerable growth of traffic here. With the exceptions of the homosexual Tad and the literary critic Andrew Marston (who doesn't have a job per se, but volunteers regularly at the New England Wildlife Center if you ever feel like giving him a call and discussing literature with him), most trolls have discovered that they can't elicit anything more mild annoyance from me and thereby give up. Tad, Marston, Pox, and Obvious are a different variety, they are various forms of what might be described as the crusader-troll.

The crusader-troll attempts to DISQUALIFY DISQUALIFY the blogger by presenting alternate narratives to the blog readers. Hence we have Tad always trying to reframe the narrative with Vox as Pure Evil, Marston going to blogs far and wide to declare that Vox, Larry Correia, and Dan Simmons(?) are Terrible Writers, Pox/Ann openly trying to pick off readers in order to limit the extent of my baleful intellectual influence, and Obvious attempting to portray the mysterious "blogger" or "host" as Hypocritical, while the Scalzi fanboy Phoenician spent over a year attempting to show Vox as Inferior to the Object of Adoration. The fact that their disqualification attempts have obviously failed, as the blog traffic grew from 612,136 pageviews in August 2012 to over 1.5 million in August 2014 doesn't ever seem to register with them. Perhaps they're not trolling hard enough?

Of the crusading variety, I tend to find Marston the most amusing because I am aware I cause him far more pain than he causes me. (To say nothing of his fascinating attempts at fantasy fiction which are much more entertaining than all the 2014 Hugo winners combined. I even offered to publish Nocturne; it is guaranteed Hugo-Award winning material.) Every new Twitter follower I get, every additional 100k pageviews of traffic, and every new SF award for which I am nominated causes him pain. In fact, if he hadn't gone on such an insane literary-snob rampage a while back and annoyed so many people, I very much doubt that Sad Puppies 2 would have been such a big success. Science fiction can thank Luscinia/Marston for the fact that Larry and I, among others, are bona-fide Hugo-nominated authors from now until the end of time. My author's bio has been burnished thanks to the blog troll.

That, my friends, is what you call backfire. Well done, Andrew. But he will never learn because he is too neuro-atypical to grasp normal human psychology. He will continue to poke the bears because he has deemed the bears to be Evil, never understanding the wisdom implicit in the notion of letting sleeping grizzlies lie.

(That being said, it's also amusing to me that my shadow troll, Ann Morgan aka Pox Vay, gets more traffic and comments than many blogs, and even has her own meta-troll, Obviously. This comment by her was downright funny too: "I also confess to being immature in some ways, mainly I lack confidence, patience, and sometimes have poor control over my temper." You don't say.)

There will always be trolls. There are too many immature, attention-seeking, emotionally unstable individuals sans audiences for there not to be. But they are no reason for concern. Quite to the contrary, they are a material testament to the fact that you matter, that you are making a difference. I wouldn't worry about trolls if I were the average blogger. I would worry more about having such a small audience, or so little of import to say, that the trolls feel no temptation to show up.

Labels:

84 Comments:

Anonymous MawBTS August 24, 2014 5:30 AM  

Trolling's kind of an art form. It doesn't get the critical appreciation it deserves.

I view trolling as anti-joking. When you tell a joke, you want the person to understand the punchline. But trolling's the opposite. It's only funny when the person DOESN'T understand the punchline.

About ten years ago, comedy writer David Wong used to write fake movie reviews as "Dr Albert Oxford", with the goal of trolling fans of that movie (for instance, accusing the Lord of the Rings movies of stealing the idea of orcs from Blizzard's Warcraft games).

It worked. Traffic blew in like a hurricane. People kept seeing these fake reviews, and linked them far and wide. Wong now works at Cracked, and is increasingly involved in SJW faggotry, which is unfortunate.

Blogger Akulkis August 24, 2014 5:34 AM  

Ann getting trolled on her own blog... poetic justice.

Blogger Robert What? August 24, 2014 5:59 AM  

My guess is that most trolls are abject cowards and would run away shrieking like little girls at the slightest hint of actual face-to-face human confrontation

Anonymous Sensei August 24, 2014 6:20 AM  

My favorite take on trolls is the literal interpretation which Larry used in his MHI series, that was a small stroke of comedic genius.

Blogger Shimshon August 24, 2014 6:24 AM  

I was wondering when you'd respond to this. I read it and laughed, since you seem to have solved the troll problem with little difficulty.

Anonymous takin' a look August 24, 2014 6:35 AM  

A troll, IMVHO, is just a shit tester who secretly craves and fantasizes about being dominated and used as a gimp cum dump.There really is no other reason why they would play these games.

Anonymous Bz August 24, 2014 6:57 AM  

Media from NYT and down is obviously intended by society to 1. tell tough truths to various fools, trolls, fascists, R/S/Hs and other scum, while 2. residing in a safe space.

Blogger Shimshon August 24, 2014 7:13 AM  

I think at least part of the problem is that most people have an instinctive desire to stifle all debate, not just trolls. This is classic rabbit behavior. This is why "trolls" are a problem for them, because to them, trolls are often nothing more than people genuinely interested in debate and discussion. There are very sensible ways to deal with genuine trolls, but that usually includes liberal comment rules that are anathema to many.

Blogger Unknown August 24, 2014 7:17 AM  

If you ignore a troll, he'll think he's won. The best response is casual indifference, and a refusal to be dragged off topic. Trolls get off on the power of provocation and of being able to derail a conversation. The last thing they want to be told is how boring they are.

Anonymous Anonymous August 24, 2014 7:27 AM  

Most bloggers (especially conservative or right-wing bloggers) are susceptible to trolls because they have a strong desire to be fair and not to shut down dissenting opinions. The troll uses that against them, pretending to debate when his real goal is to muddy the waters and derail the discussion.

The troll is like the obnoxious little kid on the playground, who knows the big kid has a code that says you can't punch someone unless he punches you first, so he dances around the big kid calling him names and playing "I'm not touching you" games, using the big kid's code against him. The troll (at least in his mind) wins either way: if the big kid doesn't respond, he looks weak; if he does, he's broken his code.

You don't have much problem with trolls here because they know you'll punch them in the face and it won't bother you. They can't get under your skin, and that takes most of the fun out of it for them. Only someone like Tad, who's so delusional that he thinks he's winning even when he's shouting into the void of the trash folder, will stick around long.

Anonymous VD August 24, 2014 7:42 AM  

There are very sensible ways to deal with genuine trolls, but that usually includes liberal comment rules that are anathema to many.

The irony is that the more you permit general comment freedom, the more room you have to delete on sight all troll comments. Everyone understands the difference between simple disagreement and trolling.

Anonymous Harold August 24, 2014 7:53 AM  

Someone ought to make an advertisement for smelling salts targetted at progs for all those times they see something racist/sexist on the internet.

Anonymous aero August 24, 2014 7:59 AM  

Every person that has ever made a comment here is a troll. Their comments are bait for a debate.

The problem some of the trolls do not know how to fish. They use improper bait and make unnecessary noise.

VD created a fishing hole with abundance of different fish for the trolls to tell their fish story.

Blogger Markku August 24, 2014 7:59 AM  

If you ignore a troll, he'll think he's won.

It doesn't matter what the troll thinks, it's everyone else's annoyance that should be minimized.

However, when a troll brings up a point that you know a reasonable observer would take seriously, then it makes sense to respond if it's also on topic. But in such cases, I usually address the audience, not the troll.

Blogger Markku August 24, 2014 8:01 AM  

Every person that has ever made a comment here is a troll.

No, the very definition of a troll is that he tries to evoke emotion, not debate.

Blogger Markku August 24, 2014 8:04 AM  

I mean, I'm sure most of us know how fun it is to make feminists hopping mad. It is the same impulse, only directed the other way. And usually with considerably more incompetence.

Anonymous A Plate of Shrimp August 24, 2014 8:05 AM  

Trolls, eh? I recall that the trolls had a great musical number in that movie "Frozen". Beyond that, I never really grasped the concept.

I wouldn't call a creature like Tad a "troll", assuming I even understood what it meant. I think Tad simply believes a lot of really stupid things, and thinks he's "takin' it to ya" to demonstrate his righteousness. He's one of those people who's never seriously questioned his beliefs, the mark of intellectual adulthood; he's just gone through life assuming he must be right. I call that sort of critter a liberal or a leftist, not a troll.

Anonymous aero August 24, 2014 8:12 AM  

Thanks Markku
You've evoked my emotions!
Splash one

Anonymous aero August 24, 2014 8:18 AM  

Sometimes I like to just stir the shit up or rock the boat and even make waves.

Anonymous zen0 August 24, 2014 8:20 AM  

Blogger: This, this, this, this, and this.

Troll: Me, me, me, me, me..........me.

Anonymous Nobles August 24, 2014 8:38 AM  

>"Ann Morgan aka Pox Vay"

Are you suggesting that these two monickers are the same individual? The interactions between them at PV's site argue otherwise. Even he has admonished her to stop talking so much.

Anonymous VD August 24, 2014 8:40 AM  

The interactions between them at PV's site argue otherwise.

I wouldn't know. I only read the two most recent posts there. If they are different people, it would be even funnier if Ann got herself banned there too.

Anonymous VD August 24, 2014 8:41 AM  

I never really grasped the concept. I wouldn't call a creature like Tad a "troll", assuming I even understood what it meant.

Review your words.

Anonymous Nobles August 24, 2014 8:47 AM  

>"If they are different people, it would be even funnier if Ann got herself banned there too."

They almost certainly are different people, unless Ann can adopt two completely different personalities and sets of phrasings.

I don't think she's been banned, although GG was for being a "Vox apologist".

Anonymous Harold August 24, 2014 8:55 AM  

I don't know anything about Ann or Pox, but arguing with yourself isn't unheard of.

Viz:
www.commondreams.org/hambaconeggs

Anonymous PhillipGeorge(c)2014 August 24, 2014 9:01 AM  

You've missed something here VD about signal to noise ratio. Professional disinformation trolls are there to cheapen, degrade, and "noise interference" serious pointed discussions. Unfortunately it works.

A serious working model on how WTC 7 collapsed, for example, will be "interferenced" with spurious facts, unworkable wild theories get thrown in. Ridicule might only be a small portion of the posts. The thread and concentration effort diverts many a potential reader.

It's one of the reasons a simple gospel is useful a useful tool. Fool actors in disinformation campaigns seem reluctant to damn their own souls unless they really are 'complete fools'. The gospel, even the plaque on the wall at Langley provides a perfect fence". Fences/ product differentiation is the basis of dialogue and it clears the field of deleterious noise. IMHO. the catechisms exist to do that - it was anti trolling before the internet.

Anonymous Edgar August 24, 2014 9:10 AM  

Trolls are a fact of life.

Blogger Markku August 24, 2014 9:18 AM  

As for Tad, I'd call him a hater (not that there's anything wrong with that), not a troll.

Andrew is a genuine troll, though hilariously incompetent. Kilo Papa is a bona fide, vanilla troll.

Anonymous Weak August 24, 2014 9:22 AM  

I don't think Pox and Ann are the same person. I used to read Pox. It had some good points and was fun. But then humorless Ann invaded with her incoherent 90,000 word posts that were the opposite of fun. Everything about Ann's style and "reasoning" seemed different from Pox. Shame, because Pox was enjoyable before Ann showed up.

Anonymous A Plate of Shrimp August 24, 2014 9:25 AM  

"Review your words."

Eh, loosen your belt, put down the Aristotle for a quarter-hour, and read a limerick or two. Or better, write a limerick or two. It'd do your heart good. It's easy enough to understand what I meant.

Blogger Markku August 24, 2014 9:36 AM  

Vox gonna vox. Haters gonna hate. It is what it is. Depending on what "is" is.

Blogger Unknown August 24, 2014 9:45 AM  

" Everyone understands the difference between simple disagreement and trolling."

Here, perhaps, but on Whatever and Jim C Hines's and most other SJW blogs simple disagreement, especially if backed up with facts and logic, IS considered trolling and will get you banned immediately.

Also, isn't ridicule a legitimate forensic technique in Oxford Debate Rules? You know, "I'm a genius; you're an idiot."

Blogger Unknown August 24, 2014 9:45 AM  

@Markku:

"If you ignore a troll, he'll think he's won."

"It doesn't matter what the troll thinks, it's everyone else's annoyance that should be minimized."

My point being that allowing him to think he's won encourages more trolling. I wasn't concerned about his feelings.

Anonymous Anonymous August 24, 2014 9:46 AM  

> However, when a troll brings up a point that you know a reasonable observer would take seriously, then it makes sense to respond

It doesn't qualify as trolling unless that's the case. Socrates was the original troll.

Throwing something out there that riles people up directly isn't trolling. That takes no brains, that's just flamebait.

Flamebait: Any post of Vox's about feminism.
Trolling: Seeding ingenuous questions about tranny rights vs. feminist rights to start blog wars ... then twitter wars ... and count complete success when it hits the NYT editorial page.

See the difference?

Blogger J. Sullivan August 24, 2014 9:51 AM  

I must have missed something but what did Marston have against Dan Simmons?

Anonymous goofy the goofball August 24, 2014 10:17 AM  

I'm usually pretty up to speed on internet acronyms and usages, but what does SJW mean?

Anonymous bw August 24, 2014 10:20 AM  

Perhaps they're not trolling hard enough?

No. They are pscyo-spiritually blind. They are liars, and more peeps are getting tired of lies. The entire frame of our daily lives is built upon them, and these trolls are the duped, the ego-ill-intentioned, and the enablers. They would spread their self destruction to make it a collective one. They're true Givers that way.

Andrew Marston (who doesn't have a job per se, but volunteers regularly at the New England Wildlife Center

So he's a psychologically damaged Intel operative who has never once killed his own meat to eat. ("He who passes the Sentence should willingly swing the Sword").

continue to poke the bears because he has deemed the bears to be Evil

While having no claim to objective morality, these clowns are the biggest religious fundies in the world.

testament to the fact that you matter, that you are making a difference

They cannot turn of the Truth Signal.

Anonymous Nobles August 24, 2014 10:29 AM  

>"what does SJW mean?"

Social Justice Warrior

Anonymous Harold August 24, 2014 11:01 AM  

If the progs don't want to be trolled they shouldn't elevate having thin skin to a virtue, that's just asking for it. For that matter, so is having so many stupid opinions—like the retards on yhis site who think they really need something bigger than a 9mm.

Blogger Doom August 24, 2014 11:22 AM  

I am actually disturbed that I don't have them. I must be a natural... pesticide. Then again, because my tech-foo is weak, they can screw up my systems and it takes a while for me to somehow sort that out again. Complaints to the FCC, Google, and so on, have hung up my blogging for days, weeks, and months. I think the trolls went away because, at some point, I was taken off the allowed-to-be-attacked list. They couldn't handle the volume, or see a problem they could deal with constitutionally... the power that be and businesses... I suspect.

Oh well. Still... I'm just a tad jealous that you have all the fun. I love munching on trolls. Or ignoring them, if that mood strikes or that is the reasonable or felt/preferred response. I may only be a sith lord apprentice, to them. But it seems to be enough. Probably simply not patient enough to, as the sith lord, wheel them in I suppose. *air crush*

Anonymous Manifest D and teh FUnky Bunch August 24, 2014 11:23 AM  

For that matter, so is having so many stupid opinions—like the retards on yhis site who think they really need something bigger than a 9mm.

Great. Another 9mm fanboi.

Fag.

Anonymous Harold August 24, 2014 11:26 AM  

"Great. Another 9mm fanboi.
Fag."

Trollolol. :)

Blogger Glen Filthie August 24, 2014 11:47 AM  

I just wonder what the old SF guard would do in all this, Vox? What would Heinlein made of McRapey? And the pink shirts? Is Niven still alive and writing? What would he say of the Hugo chit show? The trolls?

And as far as that goes, maybe you and Larry are wrong about that. Maybe you should just let the awards go...it IS kinda handy having them as hallmarks of sub par intellects and red flags for crappy work. If actual writers of merit start winning it as well as the phonies and poseurs...well...then the awards become much like Forrest's bowl of chocolates...

Anonymous Anonymous August 24, 2014 12:24 PM  

> And as far as that goes, maybe you and Larry are wrong about that. Maybe you should just let the awards go...

The trollish thing to do there would be to go all out on the nominations to get as many pink-hated authors as possible on the slate, then let the pinks do their thing, and have an Anti-Hugo Award (perhaps we could call it 'The Furious Rabbit') given to the most votes under 'No Award'. I know I'd level up several orders of magnitude likelier to buy on a whim something awarded a Furious Rabbit or two...

Anonymous pdimov August 24, 2014 12:51 PM  

As for Tad, I'd call him a hater (not that there's anything wrong with that), not a troll.

Creating multiple fake personas is very much a troll mark - you don't argue what you think, you argue what the persona is supposed to have thought. Tad's just not very good at pulling it off.

Anonymous Anonymous August 24, 2014 12:51 PM  

"If you ignore a troll, he'll think he's won."

Answer not a [troll] according to his folly, lest you be like him yourself. Answer a [troll] according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own eyes. (Proverbs 26:4-5)

It's a classic dilemma, knowing when to feed or starve the troll.

Anonymous SkinDeep August 24, 2014 1:15 PM  

Increased traffic is not increased acceptance. People read to know their enemy. It just happens that Vox Popoli is a great source of knowledge in that regard. Everything that's important to fight against as a rational human is portrayed in abundance in this cesspool you call a blog.

Anonymous VD August 24, 2014 1:28 PM  

Increased traffic is not increased acceptance.

Right, that's why Whatever's traffic was never cited as proof of its popularity, right? Do you not understand that constantly playing the "heads I win, tails you lose" game doesn't convince anyone?

Anonymous pdimov August 24, 2014 1:34 PM  

Everything that's important to fight against as a rational human is portrayed in abundance in this cesspool you call a blog.

Right on topic in various ways. :-)

Blogger Markku August 24, 2014 1:54 PM  

Everything that's important to fight against as a rational human is portrayed in abundance in this cesspool you call a blog.

That is a completely benign rationalization to explain to yourself why you feel compelled to follow the blog. I think you should continue to use it, until you come to the next level, like, say, dh.

Anonymous NorthernHamlet August 24, 2014 2:01 PM  

Harold,

I learned on a 40. Though I wouldn't necessarily suggest it for others learning for various reasons, if this liberal prefers 40... well, you get the picture.

The 40 rule for this blog also happens to be one of the ones that makes me manly, so I must approve by default.

Blogger Markku August 24, 2014 2:02 PM  

this liberal

VADE RETRO!

Blogger Markku August 24, 2014 2:14 PM  

Hmm. I just started thinking how odd it was of Jesus to say "get thee behind me, Satan". Does it mean that Satan has to scuttle behind Jesus, just 'cause? Is it a more palatable way of saying "kiss my ass, Satan"?

No, a quick glance at commentaries revealed the truth to be quite boring. Jesus turns around, turns his back to Satan's advice, and listens to what the other disciples have to say.

Blogger Markku August 24, 2014 2:34 PM  

I suppose the takeaway is that if you use that line on a demon, and don't actually turn around, it is entirely within its rights to point out that you appear to be still facing it.

Anonymous Jill August 24, 2014 2:39 PM  

I've thought about becoming a troll, but my schedule's all booked up.

Anonymous NorthernHamlet August 24, 2014 2:41 PM  

Great Markku, now no one is going to invite me to this year's Dread Ilk White Elephant party. I totally had a sweet gift picked out too.

Blogger Markku August 24, 2014 2:47 PM  

-get thee behind me, Satan!

...

-I don't know if what I'm seeing here is your backside, but they normally don't come with a nose and eyes.

-Oh, THAT'S what it meant?

-Rrriight, I should probably be turning right now.

*tuuuurrrrn*

*awkward*



Whew, I'm just glad THAT didn't happen.

Anonymous bob k. mando August 24, 2014 2:58 PM  

i think i remember "dh" as being the handle who tried to pawn off the impetus to attack Syria on the Repugs.

now, is McCain all in on that idea? sure. he never saw a war he didn't like.

but then again, even most Repugs can't stand McCain. so
IF you try to argue that McCain's stance on Syria == Republicans trying to drag the nation to war
THEN you are arguing in bad faith

however, dh doesn't use a registered account to post here. so, it's remotely possible that it was somebody spoofing his handle.

i don't remember any posts by dh disputing that though so ...


more on the sweet and sour Porky front, here's the presentation from the guy who "hacked" Healthcare.gov at the Aug 2014 Assoc. for Software Testing conference. you'll note that, as of the date ( Aug 11-13 ) of this conference, he notes that many of the security issues that he discovered WITH THE WEB-DEV TOOL THAT IS IN EVERY MODERN BROWSER are still in place.

so, remember kids, if you ever use your 'Web Developer' widgets ( under the 'Tools' drop down ) YOU are a 'hacker' ... according .gov douchebags.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9-Gz1U87CI

Blogger Markku August 24, 2014 3:02 PM  

dh is the guy from former Yugoslavia who escaped to US during the Balkan war, was a leftist for a long time on this forum, and relatively recently converted to Catholicism. Still posts quite a bit. As for his position on Republicans, I don't know.

Anonymous bob k. mando August 24, 2014 3:07 PM  

VD August 24, 2014 1:28 PM
Do you not understand that constantly playing the "heads I win, tails you lose" game doesn't convince anyone?



you're wrong here.

that game succeeds ALL TO OFTEN.


it's just like that delta who got sucked into Quinn's whirlpool. yes, he WAS able to figure it out. eventually. but he had to go through a nervous breakdown first.



Glen Filthie August 24, 2014 11:47 AM
What would Heinlein made of McRapey? And the pink shirts? Is Niven still alive and writing? What would he say of the Hugo chit show? The trolls?



Heinlein was all in favor of promoting equal rights for women ... but he was also definitely a player. what would be known as a Gameboy today.

so he wouldn't have any patience with this SJW fooforaw.

Niven is still alive but, so far as i can tell, prefers to keep his head down. considering that he's towards the right and has spent a great deal of time working in Hollyweird on movies / tv / books, he's probably got a habit of not talking much simply so he doesn't have to deal with the rabbits losing their shit.

Niven and Pournelle still see each other often. if you want a proxy for Niven's opinion, see what Dr. Jerry is posting.

Anonymous bob k. mando August 24, 2014 3:15 PM  

Markku August 24, 2014 3:02 PM
was a leftist for a long time on this forum, ... Still posts quite a bit. As for his position on Republicans, I don't know.



yes, i know he posts almost daily. and i actually don't mind him.

it just surprised me a great deal when he tried to slime Repugs with the Syria thing. Syria was the effort of the entire Obama admin and many top congressional Dems. it was a Demoncrat + RINO op.


also, the last comment of his that i saw on the matter, he still characterized himself as Left but more center than he had been.

which is amusing given how much time he spends arguing with/shredding Scalzi.

Blogger RobertT August 24, 2014 3:21 PM  

" immature, attention-seeking, emotionally unstable individuals "

This pretty much describes me. Since I ran for Congress and got a taste of being misquoted, hassled, criticized, idolized, whatever, and finding myself the subject of editorial opinion pages for years afterward, I went underground. Not by intention but by reflex. Apparently I was some kind of lightening rod for the same kind of person I was before I ran. Eventually it became a perverse drive to become wildly successful despite shunning networking opportunities, signage, etc. Some people still walk up on the street and tell me I would have been a great Congressman. I wouldn't have, but that's how weird my campaign was. I got my clock cleaned but some people still idolize me. I'm polite and gracious but I still wish it wouldn't happen. So I'm not ready to be out in the public eye again (MPAI). Sometimes I enjoy a fight, but I get all the notoriety I want, but in the distant confines of the Silicon Valley or Ohio or where-ever, not here at home. On this blog, I find topics that match my interests, but mostly, I find the anonymity of commenting here as refreshing as a shot of scotch for breakfast. I don't consider myself one of the ilk, I'm not an ilk kind of guy. But here my inner psychopath can run wild. Sometimes it does. But under my watchful eye.

Blogger Akulkis August 24, 2014 3:26 PM  

A troll, IMVHO, is just a shit tester who secretly craves and fantasizes about being dominated and used as a gimp cum dump.There really is no other reason why they would play these games.

I used to troll soc.singles... mainly because most of the people there were utterly inane leftist trying to force their demented world-view on everybody (that was where I first came across the term Politically Correct... in the late 1980's).

My attitude was simple: "I'm just here to fuck shit up." Primary tools were mockery, and pointing out heir utter inferiority to normal-thinking people. It got quite interesting when some of the shoggoths from soc.fat-accaptance waddled in.

There were, in those days, an anonymous poster (who routed everything through mixmaster remailers, a primitive version of what The Onion Router (TOR) network is today) who went under the psuedonym Jackie the Tokeman.

One day, someone posted a link to a photograph purporting to be Jackie.

It showed one of those lawn-jockey statue, wrapped in a black plastic trash bag, with all of the air sucked out by a vacuum cleaner, with the tube placed against the mouth of the statue.

While it was rather lame at humor, I noted that that whoever did this went to a lot of work for this lame insult. This was when digital cameras were EXTREMELY rare, and expensive ($ 1M or so)... The person had to set up the photo and take the picture... probably take a couple exposures at different shutter or aperture settings, so as to get the right exposure... send the film off to get developed... scan the photo (very slow in those days)... probably had to email that from work, as scanners were still ridiculously expensive too.. you could buy used cars for less $$$)..or carry it home from work on a floppy....

As soon as I saw the photo and the Caption "Jackie the Tokeman relaxing" or something like that, I knew that whoever Jackie the Tokeman was, that he had managed to smash open the hive, and the drones were FURIOUS.

It was all quite amusing. Especially telling the feminists that they had turned American women into the least desirable women on the planet, and that any guy with the means to do so was actively seeking out women from other countries for marriage... So hope you all enjoy being single, and/or enjoy working until you're 65 just like men do...because there are no rich men in YOUR future ...

Blogger Akulkis August 24, 2014 3:42 PM  

9mm is really a lousy round.
With .45, it's natural to let the wrist be loose, and the pistol will chamber the next round properly.

With something small, like .22, it's natural to keep the wrist locked, and pistol will chamber the next round.

With 9mm, it's natural to let the wrist be loose, and the pistol will NOT chamber the next round -- you have to force yourself to lock your wrist. That in itself is a big problem.

Anonymous Ain August 24, 2014 4:38 PM  

MawBTS, I do like Dr Albert Oxford's suggestion that Gandalf should have been played by Bruce Campbell. Nice, subtle trainwreckery.

Blogger rcocean August 24, 2014 5:13 PM  

VD knows had to handle trolls and he does ban them. Sadly, most conservatives sites don't know how to handle them. That liberals will target any conservative site for subversion and destruction never seems to register with many of the blog owners. Instead, they either let the liberal moby's and trolls take over or they go to the other extreme and ban comments all together.

Blogger rcocean August 24, 2014 5:15 PM  

OT: Just finished reading Ragtime and wondered why such a mediocre author (Doctorow) got so many National Book Awards. Answer: NBA's are given by Book "Industry" insiders, and Doctorow was Book industry editor before he became a novelist. Mystery solved.

Blogger Outlaw X August 24, 2014 7:47 PM  

I would worry more about having such a small audience, or so little of import to say, that the trolls feel no temptation to show up.

That depends on the reason for the Blog. I like to read Nate's and Res's blog because they usually have something to say. Yet I see very little if any trolls.

Anonymous Dr. Kenneth Noisewater August 24, 2014 7:55 PM  

With 9mm, it's natural to let the wrist be loose, and the pistol will NOT chamber the next round -- you have to force yourself to lock your wrist. That in itself is a big problem.

Get a CZ SP-01 and 124gr +P JHP.

I would myself if I still had a job, though I reckon I could trade or sell my pimped Glock and get a good part of the way there on a traded CZ.

ObTopic: I tend to like to poke at folks in comments, especially when there's a bunch of dopey groupthink going on, but it's almost always actually related to the discussion at hand, or relevant to it. Or, I'll play Devil's Advocate and try to warp some minds. The real sort of old-school trolling/flaming (like BBS ANSI or ProTERM graphics wars, USENET, or Lambda MOO) I don't have the patience for.

Anonymous The other skeptic August 24, 2014 8:23 PM  

With 9mm, it's natural to let the wrist be loose, and the pistol will NOT chamber the next round -- you have to force yourself to lock your wrist. That in itself is a big problem.

Well, I dunno about that. I have never had a problem with either, but 9mm seems to develop a higher peak pressure as it slams your hand harder.

All-in-all I do like .45 better because it seems like such an easy to handle round, in both Glocks and 1911s, and it has lots of force when it hits the target.

Anonymous The Deuce August 24, 2014 10:09 PM  

Heh, I just checked out that Pox Vay blog / obsessive pity party, which now has a self-pitying post about this post. Added bonus: The one comment is Phoenician insisting that Scalzi is awesome and Vox is consumed by jealousy (no doubt he's got some explanation in his mind for why Vox isn't even more consumed by jealousy over the more-successful Larry Correia).

Btw, anybody remember Beelzebub? Whatever happened to that little weirdo? I recall that he also put together a blog entirely dedicated to obsessing over Vox, though it flamed out as I recall, because Vox was not yet as popular/notorious as he is now.

Blogger rcocean August 24, 2014 11:15 PM  

I think sinclair Lewis' "Dodsworth" is pretty weak.

Anonymous beerme August 25, 2014 12:02 AM  

9mm always reminds me of a light kettlebell. It has its place, but will get you hurt if you can handle something bigger.

Blogger Akulkis August 25, 2014 4:15 AM  

Can't wait until the army (with or without NATO) gets rid of that P.O.S. 9mm.
PEO Soldier (Project Executive Office), which is responsible for common equipment which is used by most soldiers, regardless of MOS, rated the 9mm as the only weapon in the inventory which was really failing to meet operational combat expectations. (In contrast, the Barrett .50 was noted as being absolutely wonderful, not only insantly causing physically incapacitating effects enemy targets, but having severe psychologically incapacitating effects in most enemy personnel near a target upon seeing the physical effect on said target).

The ammunition used by NATO is really screwed up. We insisted on choosing the rifle round.. the .308 Winchester (7.62 x 54). That turned out to be a real mistake. So then we insisted on choosing a new round (5.56 x 45) which is too light. So then when it came to choose a standard pistol round, the Europeans said, "You screwed up the rifle round choice twice, WE'RE picking the pistol round!"... so we got this thing that is basically meant for medics to put the grievously wounded out of their misery and for officers to have as a distinction of rank (and a tool for summary execution).

So now, with both rifles and pistols, we have the worse of both worlds.


It would have been much better if the Euros had picked the rifle round (would have chosen something in the 6.3 ~ 6.7mm range) and if we had picked the pistol round (.45 ACP, of course). Then we would have the best of both worlds.

Damned politics.

Anonymous FrankNorman August 25, 2014 9:13 AM  

A quick google turns up plenty of evidence that Vox does, in fact, seriously get under some people's skins.

Check this one out for a chuckle:
http://theodoresezdonotreadthese.tumblr.com/

Anonymous The Lion August 25, 2014 12:37 PM  

Great Markku, now no one is going to invite me to this year's Dread Ilk White Elephant party. I totally had a sweet gift picked out too.

If it's a frilly Glock cozy, you were just going to get your ass kicked anyway.

Blogger Quadko August 25, 2014 12:49 PM  

Only 69%? Weren't the others paying attention?

My favorite way of handling attention trolls was Joel Spolsky, IIRC. "Banning" didn't mean they couldn't post, but only their own IP address could see their posts. Trolls would screed away, but no one would ever reply even though the post was *right there* on their screen. No else ever saw the posts, but they could feel included and part of the conversations. I think he said most trolls wander off after being ignored, but perhaps some stayed and felt like they were making a difference, talking to themselves virtually...

Anonymous Obvious August 25, 2014 3:23 PM  

"attempting". Heh.

Glad to know that the Blog Owner finds me to be one of his top detractors. It means a lot. *sniff sniff*

Anonymous bob k. mando August 25, 2014 4:04 PM  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChSazF41q-s

Anonymous SkinDeep August 25, 2014 5:24 PM  

"Right, that's why Whatever's traffic was never cited as proof of its popularity, right? Do you not understand that constantly playing the "heads I win, tails you lose" game doesn't convince anyone?"

I'm not talking about Whatever. I'm talking about Vox Popoli. But it's nice of you try to move the goalpost.

Controversy sells, that's why your stats are high. Not because more people agree with what you're saying. Good people like to know what bad people are up to and you're the worst. Congratulations.

Anonymous Cassandra (of Troy) August 27, 2014 7:20 AM  


Akulkis/24Aug14@3:42PM,

"With .45,......properly."

Never heard/seen that happen.

"With something small,......next round round."

As before.

"With 9mm,......your wrist."

Again, as before. Dunno what type of semi-auto pistols you're shooting that behave like that, but none I've used/seen/heard of will do what you claim regardless of caliber. The 69 mfr FN Browning I had didn't require a death grip to work properly but would malf if sufficient retention pressure wasn't applied, i.e., 'sissy gripped'. EVERY .45ACP pistol I've fired/seen fired DEMANDED a pretty firm hold if only to keep it in the hand w/ malfs being an indicator of bad grip all else (decent ammo/mags/internals) being equal.

Subs, however, are a different thing as they need a reasonably firm grip to be accurate &, in my experience, will run just fine even if relatively loosely held.

Anonymous Cassandra (of Troy) August 27, 2014 9:15 AM  


The other skeptic/24Aug14@8:23PM,

"but 9mm......harder."

Small case + fast powder + light (115gr) bullet = high pressure/quicker cycling/relatively sharper recoil

Small case + fast powder + heavier (124, 147gr) bullet = high pressure/relatively slower cycling/relatively more recoil

.45ACP generally has more relative recoil than the 9mm when 'light' bullets are used due to a heavier powder charge needed to speed up the comparitively heavier bullet. The general rule is 9mm = smaller & faster powder charge, .45ACP = heavier & slower powder charge w/ bullet weight & powder type determining pressure. 9mm's are fun in a sub & for recreational shooting, but for self-defense the .38 Super's far better as it begins w/ a heavier charge of the same fast powder & a heavier (124gr) bullet & the .40S&W outdoes both from jump.

The .45ACP's a good pistol round but has deficits for most shooters & requires dedication to use properly, in a sub, however, it's a genuine whooper which is why English commandos adored the 1927A1 & also liked the 1911A1 & due to their intensive training had few problems w/ the .45ACP in the latter platform. One solid hit w/ the .45ACP = one dead Jerry w/ 2 reasonable hits getting the same result, & a decent non-lethal hit = no German aggro & a happy Tommy. And the Krauts were terrified of the Chicago Typewriter & labeled Brits "gangsters" for using it which increased its cachet w/ Brits as the famous 'Al Capone' Churchill w/ cigar & Thompson pic/poster demonstrates.

Anonymous Cassandra (of Troy) August 27, 2014 9:20 AM  


beerme/25Aug14@12:02AM,

.38 Super, .357 SIG, .40S&W, .45ACP = unhappy thug/thug hugger w/ the sorrow level increasing along w/ the caliber.

Works for me!

Anonymous Cassandra (of Troy) August 27, 2014 10:40 AM  


Akulkis/25Aug14@4:15AM,

"rated the 9mm......expectations."

And so the lessons of WW 1 & 2 must be relearned by the heirs of McNamara.

"We insisted......real mistake."

In your opinion, field data about the .308 Win/7.62 NATO says different.

"So then......too light."

I agree, but you'll get some HEAVY disagreement about that from certain quarters.

"So then......pistol round!""

Not exactly the way it happened, but American Europhiles in general/American Anglophiles in particular did influence the decision more than they should have w/ the "It's the most popular pistol round IN THE WORLD!" being their battlecry.

"so we......summary execution)."

LOL

"So now......both worlds."

There we agree, but as before there are LOTS of people who take VEHEMENT exception to that contention.

"It would......of course)."

The Brit .276 wasn't all that hot & if you look at its case you can see potential problems for MG use. The 6.5x55's a good AR round, imo, as it's accurate & has what I consider to be a 'baby bear' bullet that's less likely to over-penetrate than the 7.62NATO & MUCH likelier to deliver a one shot stop than the 5.56 while retaining enough of its wounding ability. The .45ACP's a good round, the .40S&W's better imo for mil use since it's accurate, has longer range & greater ammo capacity, & when a USAF-style truncated cone 180gr bullet's used is just shy of the .45ACP 185gr TCFMJ SpecOps round. It's also easier for newbies to shoot which means they're likelier to become better shots & so more confident fighters.

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