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Thursday, September 04, 2014

esr calls BS on tor.com

Specifically, with regards to their woefully misplaced glee concerning an asserted discovery of "women warriors":
Better Identification of Viking Corpses Reveals: Half of the Warriors Were Female insists an article at tor.com. It’s complete bullshit.

What you find when you read the linked article is an obvious, though as it turns out a superficial problem. The linked research doesn’t say what the article claims. What it establishes is that a hair less than half of Viking migrants were female, which is no surprise to anyone who’s been paying attention. The leap from that to “half the warriors were female” is unjustified and quite large.

There’s a deeper problem the article is trying to ignore or gaslight out of existence: reality is, at least where pre-gunpowder weapons are involved, viciously sexist.

It happens that I know a whole lot from direct experience about fighting and training with contact weapons – knives, swords, and polearms in particular. I do this for fun, and I do it in training environments that include women among the fighters.

I also know a good deal about Viking archeology – and my wife, an expert on Viking and late Iron Age costume who corresponds on equal terms with specialist historians, may know more than I do. (Persons new to the blog might wish to read my review of William Short’s Viking Weapons and Combat.) We’ve both read saga literature. We both have more than a passing acquaintance with the archeological and other evidence from other cultures historically reported to field women in combat, such as the Scythians, and have discussed it in depth.

And I’m calling bullshit. Males have, on average, about a 150% advantage in upper-body strength over females. It takes an exceptionally strong woman to match the ability of even the average man to move a contact weapon with power and speed and precise control. At equivalent levels of training, with the weight of real weapons rather than boffers, that strength advantage will almost always tell.

Supporting this, there is only very scant archeological evidence for female warriors (burials with weapons). There is almost no such evidence from Viking cultures, and what little we have is disputed; the Scythians and earlier Germanics from the Migration period have substantially more burials that might have been warrior women. Tellingly, they are almost always archers.
Here we go again. Who do these science fiction SJW idiots think they're trying to fool? That retarded Hugo-winning blog post about how women have always fought notwithstanding, all these women - and it is mostly women - have proven with their insane inventions and historical misrepresentations is that they have never, ever, stepped into a ring with a man.

As I have previously mentioned, I have fought women. I have fought female black belts. And it's like fighting very flexible 12 year old boys, only the women usually quit faster. I've never fought a full two-minute round with a woman where I didn't ease off; most times they will simply quit after the second time you knock them down. They are slow, small, and weak. They are much slower and weaker than you probably imagine if you have never kicked one in the face or punched one in the stomach.

I found the occasional look of betrayal some women would show to be particularly amusing. Yes, I did just hit you in the face. Yes, I'm sure it did hurt. No, I won't stop because you've got tears welling up in your eyes. What on Earth do you think you are here for? That sort of dojo bunny never stuck around for long. The sort that did ended up marrying both of our senseis.

More importantly, there is the evidence of historical logic. Any society that made use of women warriors wouldn't have survived for long. From Families and Demographics in the Viking Age:
 
"A typical woman probably bore 7 infants during her lifetime, 29 months apart on average. During pregnancy, women were expected to continue working. After the child's birth, the mother typically returned to work with little delay. Evidence suggests that mothers nursed their children until the age of 2 years, which may have dictated the interval between the births of a couple's children. A typical couple probably had 2 or 3 living children at any one time. Few parents lived to see their children marry. And fewer lived to see their first grandchild.

So, a female warrior would have had to be not just as good as her male counterparts, but exceptional, and kill AT LEAST seven enemy warriors before being killed herself for the opportunity cost of her warrior womanhood to be considered break even from the tribe's perspective. Then again, it's not impossible for at least one bygone society to have been this stupid and shortsighted. After all, our society observably is.

The idea that the Vikings were sexually egalitarian is hysterical if you have ever read the account of a Viking funeral written by Ibn Fadlan in 921, when he was serving as the secretary of an embassy from the Baghdad Caliphate to the Bulgars. By my count, sixteen men have sex with the slave girl who "volunteers" to be slain with her master before she is stabbed and strangled on the ship that is subsequently burned. Wikipedia has a partial description, which appears in full in the revised edition of THE HISTORY OF THE VIKINGS by Gwyn Jones.

And even the mythical warrior woman Brynhildr followed the practice in the human sacrifice she offered for Sigurd.
    Bond-women five
    shall follow him,
    And eight of my thralls,
    well-born are they,
    Children with me,
    and mine they were
    As gifts that Buthli
    his daughter gave.

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103 Comments:

Anonymous dh September 04, 2014 4:55 AM  



A few comments:

1. Wow. Just Wow. A woman is more than just an incubator. I am sure there were many Viking woman who were perfectly fulfilled doing whatever the Viking equivalent of making Power Point presentations was.

2. Based on my researching involving Kill Bill, The Matrix, reading Pink SF, and television, it seems likely that the average woman kills at least 10 men before retiring from battle to pursue a scruffy but good-hearted man who has no problem with her superior skills and strength.

3. This whole line of thinking is racist. The Vikings were racist because they did not have any black people.

Anonymous Smokey September 04, 2014 5:26 AM  

Honestly, I often wonder how many historical accounts of warrior women are true.

Boudica? Hua Mulan? Anne Bonny and Mary Read? And so on throughout history.

Perhaps a bit of underhanded editing by manboob historians? After all, one cannot assume that white knights and gamma males were invented in the modern age...

Anonymous Typical SJW September 04, 2014 5:45 AM  

VD is a misogynist who gets off on beating women.

Blogger Glen Filthie September 04, 2014 5:50 AM  

Well it's like any other athletic endeavour. Like it or not, male athletes are stronger, faster and have more stamina. Hell, top level performers are more flexible than women too. The only people more flexible than competition martial artists might well be the trained 12 and 14 year old gymnasts.

Much as it must grate on our hairy chested feminists - Xena The Warrior Princess was a comedy - not a documentary.

Blogger Mr.Castle September 04, 2014 6:00 AM  

When the topic women vs men in combat arises in a conversation, I point to the following boxing match, and the argument is usally over:

It starts around 10:30.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X0P20KvtFqM

It is between a german Tv show host and the then flyweight champion Regina Halmich.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regina_Halmich

Despte beeing the champion, she could only hurt him, not knock him out.

Blogger buzzardist September 04, 2014 6:09 AM  

The Tor blogger manages to utterly mangle the conclusions of the study. Whoever this Tor blogger is, do not let this person near scientific or archaeological evidence or research of any kind. The person hasn't a clue how to read a scientific study.

First, there is no evidence of women warriors. Archaeological evidence of female bones with battle injuries could be evidence that the person fought in the battle or simply that someone else killed a defenseless person violently. In the 890s, English troops overran a Norse settlement and captured women and children, so a female skeleton showing sword or arrow marks could indicate a victim and not a warrior. The study doesn't indicate any battle damage to the skeletons, so it tells us nothing about who was a warrior, let alone about warrior women.

The one reference I've heard about Viking women dressing as men and fighting as warriors is in a Saxon text. But we have to take it with a grain of salt. Saxons generally disliked Vikings, and this statement might be the medieval equivalent of "your momma wears combat boots!" Women probably didn’t fight, but it made the Vikings look bad to suggest that women did.

Another study from over a decade ago looking at the roles of women in early medieval Scandinavia found that women could be associated with war-like symbols and objects, but that they typically held roles as caretakers of houses, not as warriors. My area of specialization is a few centuries after the Vikings, but I'm not aware of any evidence that challenges this view on the role of women.

McLeod's study does suggest two things. First, the Vikings were not merely raiders who pillaged and ran. Rather, they were invading colonists, which scholars already knew. The popular conception is wrong. Vikings spread all over Europe, colonizing and battling pretty wherever they went. Their women went, too. We've long known this. We just haven't known how many Viking women typically joined these colonizing settlements, particularly in the early stages. In the past, people assumed Vikings were mainly raiders who stole foreign women as wives, but the actual evidence of Viking men intermarrying with local women is considerably less than the evidence of Viking women colonizing along with the men.

And it makes sense that the Vikings would bring their women along if their intent was to colonize. I struggle to think of any colonial enterprise in history that worked by men stealing local women. If people were trying to settle, men and women settled together. In colonizing England, for example, Vikings would not have been served well by taking English women as wives. The language barrier would have made such marriage and living arrangements difficult. The English women would also have had enormous cultural and genetic influence on children, making them more English than Viking, which is not what Vikings wanted. Unless there was some drastic shortage of Viking women, Viking women would have joined colonial settlements in large numbers, particularly once a settlement was already established.

The second revelation in this study is about Viking burial practices. The assumption that only men were buried with war-like symbols may be false. This study only looked at 14 graves, which is a very small sample, but Vikings may have buried not just men with weapons. This is something that scholars have only recently begun to reconsider. It's an interesting finding. It may prompt other Viking scholars to look more closely at the bones and not just at the trinkets, which would help to confirm or reject this relatively new hypothesis.

A caveat is that these skeletons are degraded enough that telling the sex isn't easy. Of the 14 skeletons, the researcher discounted one as impossible to tell the sex. He counted six females and seven males. The condition of the skeletons is such that he could be wrong on a few. If three or four of the skeletons were misidentified as females, that significantly alters the study's findings.

Anonymous VD September 04, 2014 6:20 AM  

This study only looked at 14 graves, which is a very small sample, but Vikings may have buried not just men with weapons.

Not only that, but there are known examples of graves with children who were buried with weapons. Clearly this proves that the secret of the Viking military success was their use of child warriors!

Anonymous Luke September 04, 2014 6:27 AM  

Related:

From "Women in the Military" by Brian Mitchell (1998):

p. 57-8: "The most common complaint heard from male cadets and midshipmen was that integration had lowered the academies' physical standards. Physically, the women simply could not keep up. The dropout rate on morning runs during West Point's "Beast Barracks" was 23 percent for women and less than 3 percent for men. In the seventh week of training, 26.3 percent of female cadets reported for physical "reconditioning" instead of the morning run, compared to 5.6 percent of men. Women reported for sick call an average of 6.8 times per female cadet, compared to the male average of 1.7 times. They suffered more than ten times as many stress fractures as men. Attrition during the first summer was 16 percent for women, 9.7 percent for men. Even after a year of regular physical training, West Point women in the first integrated class suffered five times as many injuries as men during field training. The following year, the injury rate for women in field training was fourteen times the rate for men.

p. 141-2: "Women's physical advantages are that they are less susceptible to altitude sickness and, normally, have a greater tolerance of cold temperatures due to their extra body fat. But by all other measures, men have enormous advantages physically. The average female Army recruit is 4.8 inches shorter, 31.7 pounds lighter, has 37.4 fewer pounds of muscle, and 5.7 more pounds of fat than the average male recruit. She has only 55 percent of the upper-body strength and 72 percent of the lower-body strength of the average male. She is also at a significant disadvantage when performing aerobic activities such as marching with heavy loads and working in the heat, since fat mass is inversely related to aerobic capacity and heat tolerance. Her lighter frame, moreover, makes her more likely to suffer injuries due to physical exertion. An Army study of 124 men and 186 women done in 1988 found that women are more than twice as likely to suffer leg injuries and nearly five times as likely to suffer fractures as men.

Tests of men and women entering the West Point class of 1980 found that, on average, the upper-body strength of women was 56 percent the strength of men, their leg strength 80 percent, and their gripping strength 69 percent. Even when height was kept constant, women possessed only 80 percent of the overall strength of men. After eight weeks of intensive training, male plebes demonstrated 32 percent more power in the lower body and peformed 48 percent more work at the leg press than female plebes. At the bench press, the men demonstrated 270 percent more power and performed an extraordinary 473 percent more work than the women."

Blogger buzzardist September 04, 2014 6:49 AM  

Not only that, but there are known examples of graves with children who were buried with weapons. Clearly this proves that the secret of the Viking military success was their use of child warriors!

Well, the current invasion of America is certainly making use of children warriors, and to a level of success perhaps unmatched at any time in history. These kids appear to be winning the war, leading waves of invasions, and forcing Americans to capitulate without even so much as carrying a weapon. If a bunch of scrawny Central American and Mexican kids can achieve this, imagine what Viking children would have been able to accomplish!

Blogger Tom Kratman September 04, 2014 6:50 AM  

"Honestly, I often wonder how many historical accounts of warrior women are true."

Not many, but there were a few. You can usually tell what stories are true because the herstorians (sic) won't usually go near them or cut the story off before the inevitably sad ending. Teuta! Defied Rome. Yay! (Lost the war. Lost her kingdom. Had to march in a triumph as a display.) Boadicea! Defied Rome. Yay! (Lost her kingdom. He people largely destroyed or enslaved. Battlefield incompetence.) The Trung Sisters. Vietnamese. Defied China. Yay! (Lost stinking. Had to commit suicide after their trouncing.)

The Amazons? A definite maybe. I don't trust herstorians (again, sic) to either interpret or report the facts objectively, and if they think about those facts I expect them to think about only how to pervert and twist them to support the Pravda. That said, there probably was a period of time, maybe not a very long one, where horses had been bred strong enough in the back to carry a woman or a girl, but not yet strong enough to carry a man. Given poison arrows, and the lack of body armor on the steppe, and the general deficienies of chariots, that _might_ have allowed something like the Amazons to have existed. Military conservatism (we hate change) might have kept them going for a while. Eventually, however, men would have ridable horses. Men would fire more powerful bows that wounded grievously or killed quickly. At that point, the loss of women would doom the tribe if they kept it up.

Dahomeyan female regiments? Reasonably well attested that they existed and that they fought. But they really weren't up to combat with European regulars. Then again, barring unusual circumstances, that was the general story in Africa, so...? (Note here that they had firearms, too.)

Thing is, the herstorians are so fucking ignorant they cannot even comprehend how ignorant they are or how easily their cobbled together stories can be discredited. Think here of the incalculable nbattlefield contribution of Shaka's female impis. It's incalculable because it's non-existent.

Anonymous MawBTS September 04, 2014 6:56 AM  

"Perhaps a bit of underhanded editing by manboob historians? After all, one cannot assume that white knights and gamma males were invented in the modern age..."

I don't see why these people couldn't have existed.

Anonymous Strange Aeons September 04, 2014 6:57 AM  

“Merciful Father.... I have squandered my days with equalitarian idiocy.
This Tor article was one of them. But at this moment, I beg only, to live the next few minutes well. For all we ought not to have tolerated but tolerated... All we ought to have made unequal but made equal. All sjw's we ought to have slain and have not slain. I pray thee, God, for forgiveness...”

Blogger IM2L844 September 04, 2014 7:17 AM  

Maybe it was a sporadic method of overpopulation control with respect to what the local environment could support.

"Our people are starving to death because there isn't enough food for everyone...Hey, I know what. Send in the ugly chicks."

Anonymous Logan September 04, 2014 7:36 AM  

Honestly, I do think Ronda Rousey could hold her own against a lot of guys. She constantly trains with male pro fighters, and while that doesn't mean she could beat any of them in a fight, I think she could send many an effeminate, pencil-neck geek to the hospital. Not that that's saying much.

And then there's Cris Cyborg. Sure she *might* be a female, but I'd personally be shocked to find both X chromosomes inside that 'roid-riddled Silverback Gorilla.

Anonymous Smokey September 04, 2014 7:36 AM  

I don't see why these people couldn't have existed.

I didn't say they didn't exist.

My opinion is that some of the stuff that is said of these so-called women warriors seem exaggerated, and then suggested as a joke that it could have been added on by gammas/white knight historians of old.

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian September 04, 2014 7:36 AM  

Hey DUDEBROS, we all know women kick ass.
I SO don't have time for you.
Your arguments are bullshit, you reek of fetid sexism. So, stop, already. You're not swaying me.

Anonymous FUBAR Nation Ben September 04, 2014 7:41 AM  

Vox, from your experience, are the women in dojos better than women you would meet in bars in terms of marriage material?

Anonymous Daniel September 04, 2014 7:51 AM  

Rather, they were invading colonists, which scholars already knew.

See also: Minnesota; Iowa. And you are correct, this is not news. This has never been news!

My own line went 7 generations in the United States before cross-breeding out of Norway. Some wild hare married a Scot!

Blogger Desdichado September 04, 2014 7:53 AM  

Honestly, I often wonder how many historical accounts of warrior women are true.

Boudica? Hua Mulan? Anne Bonny and Mary Read? And so on throughout history.

Perhaps a bit of underhanded editing by manboob historians? After all, one cannot assume that white knights and gamma males were invented in the modern age...


For the most part, they aren't stories about women actually participating in combat exactly. It's about a woman rallying the traditional men warriors of her people.

Anonymous VD September 04, 2014 8:09 AM  

Vox, from your experience, are the women in dojos better than women you would meet in bars in terms of marriage material?

In general, yes.

Anonymous Alexander September 04, 2014 8:41 AM  

There is NO PLACE in society for those who won't give barbarians a fair crack at killing their womenfolk.

Anonymous Nate Winchester September 04, 2014 8:47 AM  

Some of the comments at esr are getting good. Like...

Woman with sword still beats man or woman without sword, though, yes?
And woman with sword and basic martial training takes longer to die when attacked by man with sword. And she might win. And two women with swords ganging up on one man…

Even if the local women are just militia, the very fact that a raider can’t stroll through a settlement killing women and children without facing resistance, but instead has to fight for every kill, has to be of net benefit to that settlement. Often they wouldn’t even get raided in the first place because it’s a harder proposition.


Spoken like someone who's never dealt with weapons...

Blogger Harambe September 04, 2014 8:48 AM  

Although I agree with the falseness of these claims, one needs to consider the likelihood that they sent to ugly ones into battle, thereby strengthening the pretty blonde chick gene.

Anonymous Harsh September 04, 2014 8:52 AM  

By studying osteological signs of gender within the bones themselves, researchers discovered that approximately half of the remains were actually female warriors, given a proper burial with their weapons.

By this logic, Qin Shi Huang was the world's greatest potter.

Anonymous RedJack September 04, 2014 8:53 AM  

DH:

There may have been black Vikings in the land of the Rus. Slave trade and all.

Kind of like they found what could have been a Neanderthal buried as a Teutonic Knight a while back. Sort of screwed with the narrative at the time, when the assumption was that Neanderthals could not breed with full humans.

Anonymous rho September 04, 2014 8:58 AM  

Honestly, I do think Ronda Rousey could hold her own against a lot of guys. She constantly trains with male pro fighters, and while that doesn't mean she could beat any of them in a fight, I think she could send many an effeminate, pencil-neck geek to the hospital. Not that that's saying much.

I wouldn't want to fight Ronda Rousey. She loves her arm bar, and I have a bum shoulder that you can dislocate with harsh language.

esr's point about firearms and women was especially good. Firearm restrictions have a, ahh, "disproportionate impact" on women. Therefore, they're inherently sexist.

Anonymous Stingray September 04, 2014 8:58 AM  

They are slow, small, and weak.

But this hurts my feelings, so it MUST BE WRONG!

Blogger Jeff the Baptist September 04, 2014 8:59 AM  

So, a female warrior would have had to be not just as good as her male counterparts, but exceptional, and kill AT LEAST seven enemy warriors before being killed herself for the opportunity cost of her warrior womanhood to be considered break even from the tribe's perspective.

Incorrect, 7 is the number of infants she would have to bear. Because of high infant mortality, only half those (the 2-3 living children) would live top adulthood. Since she would be fighting adult warriors, she'd only have to kill two or three. Not likely, but much more likely than seven.

Anonymous PhillipGeorge(c)2014 September 04, 2014 9:01 AM  

Shouldn't underestimate the power of adrenaline junkie total warfare ball breaking blood lust societies - Mental As Anything captured the meaning of Berserk rather brilliantly I thought

blue daubed naked Celtic picts running down on your lines. you might - you may not have wondered that much about their gender.


Maybe Boadicea was only half beaten. Think about it.

Blogger Derrick Bonsell September 04, 2014 9:11 AM  

Well one mistake is in assuming that the Norse were a warrior society a la the Klingons. Such a society would be unsustainable, because even a skilled warrior would be lucky to kill more than one person, and is just as likely to be killed themselves without taking down any of the enemy. If such societies existed they never got too large. Even Steppe nomad armies generally didn't call up the entire adult male population.

Anonymous Anonymous September 04, 2014 9:12 AM  

I've always found archaeology interesting, but whenever I read or watch something about it, I'm struck by how much wild-ass guessing they do. Terry Jones (of Monty Python) did a documentary called Barbarians, based on some new discoveries that show the barbarian hordes of Europe might not have been as uncivilized as Caesar portrayed them. It's very interesting, but there are spots where he really stretches to make claims about how egalitarian they were (as opposed to the nasty, patriarchal Romans). There's one burial mound they discovered where a woman was buried with all sorts of wealth, and he jumps right from that one data point to saying that women could be equal leaders in this society. It seems like they're awfully quick to extrapolate a single item or two to an entire society, without considering the possibility that they could have stumbled over an exception. What if a king was burying his beloved wife and just got carried away? (To be fair, this was Jones saying this; perhaps the archaeologists themselves don't go that far.)

And when they're wrong, they don't seem to take any heat for it. It's just, "Oh, you know all those pictures of in your textbooks of T-Rex dragging his fat ass along the ground? Throw those out; we've decided he ran like a turbo-charged roadrunner with his tail up in the air. We're really sure this time!"

Blogger J. Sullivan September 04, 2014 9:17 AM  

My friend's daughter is in Law Enforcement. She's been in that field for 7 years. She has a reputation as a 'tough chick'.

She was selected to go to Defensive Tactics Instructor school. She would be basically put through the ringer and pummeled for something like 4 weeks.

I don't think it went well because now, she appears to be ready to quit the Law Enforcement field. My guess is she got a rude awakening in a place where she was expected to hold her own without falling back on weapons or authority.

I have no other details but that is my guess. To go from so 'gung ho' to 'done with this crap' says that most likely something happened there and it wasn't the positive-you-go-girl-power kind.

Anonymous Anonymous September 04, 2014 9:18 AM  

If I were digging in my back yard and found a bunch of female skeletons with weapons, my first guess would be that they were killed while trying to defend their homes after all their men were killed out on the front lines. Fighting to the death rather than being raped and sold as slaves. Even that's not likely, but it seems much more likely than that they were normally warriors.

Blogger Outlaw X September 04, 2014 9:22 AM  

Woman with sword still beats man or woman without sword, though, yes?
And woman with sword and basic martial training takes longer to die when attacked by man with sword.


Does a woman with a rock really beat a woman with scissors? I guarantee that a man with a rock beats a woman with paper.

Anonymous Stilicho September 04, 2014 9:22 AM  

Thing is, the herstorians are so fucking ignorant they cannot even comprehend how ignorant they are or how easily their cobbled together stories can be discredited. Think here of the incalculable nbattlefield contribution of Shaka's female impis. It's incalculable because it's non-existent.

The most ridiculous aspect of this phenomenon is that it crops up most frequently in fantasy and scfi, the two genres where a female warrior is actually "plausible". I don't think anyone has a problem with a female warrior in those genres if her ability is due to to magic or technology respectively. Badass Valkyrie? No problem. Badass midget named Karen Murphy? Not so much. Likewise, if you want to put a female in a powered suit a la Starship Troopers and let her kick ass, no problem. Making her kick ass because society has evolved to recognize Gurrrll Powerr!, not so much.

Anonymous jack September 04, 2014 9:32 AM  

An argument could possibly be made for women, that were so inclined and had some basic skills or could be taught them, to be bowmen. Yes, their bows would not have the draw weight of normal males. They could have the smaller bows and be used for point defense of say, the village. I would suspect no use on raids unless they did double duty as camp whores, cooks and cleanup. Even then they would be relegated to baggage train defense or defense of the wounded men in case of enemy behind the lines activity. This might work. Sorta.

Anonymous DrTorch September 04, 2014 9:38 AM  

I thought this was relevant: even the Social Justice Warrior women suffer grave casualties

http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/mallorymillett/marxist-feminisms-ruined-lives/

Anonymous Hunsdon September 04, 2014 9:39 AM  

Everyone is fascinated by the warrior princess ideal for the same reason everyone is fascinated by dragons. Because it's a fantasy.

Blogger Dark Herald September 04, 2014 9:40 AM  

The wonderful thing about history is, that it's adjustable.

The myth of the woman warrior is nearly sacred to the left at this point. Hell, they have been altering reality in the military to accommodate this myth. Lop sided studies in the field, brushed over and carefully screened results. Data so tortured it would confess to anything.

And everybody who is in, knows the real score. Woman degrade a combat unit's effectiveness.

There is no secret more deeply buried than that one.

Anonymous PhillipGeorge(c)2014 September 04, 2014 9:45 AM  

Re work this just slightly. Female gladiators fought to the death.
It's not hard to imagine three females defending to the death against one at a time any comers.

Apparently in a battle to the death two women and five children survived Masada. It was their tactical choice.

Blogger buzzardist September 04, 2014 9:52 AM  

I've always found archaeology interesting, but whenever I read or watch something about it, I'm struck by how much wild-ass guessing they do.

That's because archaeology, like paleontology, is, for all of its scientific veneer, not science. It may count as a social science, and it may use a few hard science tests in analyzing artifacts. But the core hypotheses that archaeologists form are cultural. There is no repeatable process by which we can test out their claims. They simply make a claim that this is how such-and-such society was, and then other scholars in the field support or reject the idea. It's a popularity contest. They marshal various evidence for and against different hypotheses, and that evidence is sometimes quite convincing and sometimes not. But the evidence is always anecdotal and circumstantial. We have to construct a narrative around what we find, which puts these archaeologists much closer to literary studies than to physics in terms of the field's position on a scale relative to other fields.

Anonymous clk September 04, 2014 9:52 AM  

Female and youth black belts (BB) ...proves that the school is in it only for the money. Sure good for kids to train . that should be encouraged .. but dont pretent that a 12 year old 1st BB has the same 1st BB skills as a 24 year man ... and the same goes with women BB too.

"An argument could possibly be made for women, that were so inclined and had some basic skills or could be taught them, to be bowmen" .. even less likely .. simply cannot draw the weight required in any of the hsitorical bows... we get spoiled with these model recurves and compound bows .. in the old days the required draw weight for a lethal shot would have prevent most women and some men from being a bowman..

IMHO

Anonymous Anonymous September 04, 2014 10:23 AM  

Tangentially, what is up with the manboob sexualized obsession with female warriors?

I was reading a very bad Batman novel ("Fear Itself") a while ago---and, for no reason, the writer has a female character sent to an underground baddie lair in dear old Gotham. The police decide she needs a bodyguard, and send a Female Police Officer Undercover Who is Tougher Than Any Man. Said bodyguard wards off all the scum who would otherwise be messing with them because Grrl Power Women Are Equal/Better than Men.

You could almost hear the manboob fapping to the horribly hilarious passage.

The passage is also ludicrously humorous because the writer decides that, in such an environment, of course there would be a Gorgeous Straight East Asian Male Prostitute Who Caters to Women. Because that's what the two female characters encounters. He propositions her---which she considers for a moment.

That's right, kiddos; according to the maboobs author, there is secret equality in prostitution, because Women Have Same Sex Drives As Men, but the Patriarchy is Holding This Equality Down. Also, east asian males are the gigolos.

It was at this point that what had been a promising premise of a novel turned into a complete farce.

I'm sure Scalzi ghost wrote it. It's up for a Hugo Award next year.

Literary rape!

Anonymous Mike September 04, 2014 10:25 AM  

This is why I gave up on training courses at the local University.

It wasn't much more than thumb wrestling, and it was inevitable that I would eventually run into a headcase chick outraged that I touched her boob during a fight.

Anonymous The other skeptic September 04, 2014 10:28 AM  

"An argument could possibly be made for women, that were so inclined and had some basic skills or could be taught them, to be bowmen" .. even less likely .. simply cannot draw the weight required in any of the hsitorical bows...

And we know from skeletons the sort of problems that being an archer causes. Are there any known female skeletons with those deformities?

Anonymous The other skeptic September 04, 2014 10:33 AM  

I have no other details but that is my guess. To go from so 'gung ho' to 'done with this crap' says that most likely something happened there and it wasn't the positive-you-go-girl-power kind.

No doubt, Eric Holder will organize a civil rights investigation of that police department.

Anonymous VD September 04, 2014 10:39 AM  

Incorrect, 7 is the number of infants she would have to bear. Because of high infant mortality, only half those (the 2-3 living children) would live top adulthood. Since she would be fighting adult warriors, she'd only have to kill two or three. Not likely, but much more likely than seven.

If you want to take it to this level, then I'll note that she has to kill 2-3 adult warriors BEFORE THEY REPRODUCE. No adult warrior who has enough children to possibly replace himself counts. So that 2.5 adult warriors is the absolute minimum breakeven. It could be more than seven.

Anonymous Anonymous September 04, 2014 10:39 AM  

Half of the Warriors Were Female...

And they wore chain mail bikinis, even when the temperatures were freezing outside. And they had smoking hot bodies.

Blogger deadman September 04, 2014 10:43 AM  

Simple physics. Force = mass x acceleration.

If a 50kg girl throws her 11kg leg in a round house manoeuvre, it's simply not going to generate the same force as a 100kg male throwing his 22kg leg at the same speed & acceleration.

I've also done kickboxing sparring with amateur female kickboxers. & like Vox, I simply lost the need to be as forceful or aggressive as I would be against even an average sized male.

Hell, some of those girls accidently kicked me in the groin when I wasn't wearing a cup & I simply ignored it...
Yet, if a guy accidently kicked me in the groin, I had to stop...

- deadman

Anonymous Heh September 04, 2014 10:45 AM  

Hey DUDEBROS, we all know women kick ass.
I SO don't have time for you.
Your arguments are bullshit, you reek of fetid sexism. So, stop, already. You're not swaying me.


You forgot to mention that your daughter benches more than you, so of course women warriors could beat men.

Blogger CM September 04, 2014 10:46 AM  

I've never had an issue with the reality of male-female physiological inequality. I think women should be slighter and gentler than their male counterparts and I find the relationship between macho man and graceful princess beautiful, sweet, and titillating (yeay, old fashioned romance novel!)

However, I love a good fantasy novel with a woman being a warrior... even if it is through magic or some special trait oddly unique to them.

I don't really care if b run hide actually existed, but her story could (and possibly did) serve as inspiration for women to be disciplined, make hard choices, and fight for their communities in the ways they could. They may not wield a sword, but they can have strength of character to uphold their duty.

Anonymous Heh September 04, 2014 10:46 AM  

Vox, from your experience, are the women in dojos better than women you would meet in bars in terms of marriage material?

As it happens, my buddy met his future wife in a dojo.

I asked him if they did a lot of ground work and grappling before they started dating, heheh.

Anonymous Stilicho September 04, 2014 10:47 AM  


Does a woman with a rock really beat a woman with scissors?


Who knows? It's like asking how many feminists can dance on the head of a vibrator.

Anonymous daddynichol September 04, 2014 10:55 AM  

Stilicho,

Does a woman with a rock really beat a woman with scissors?

Who knows? It's like asking how many feminists can dance on the head of a vibrator.

Wasn't there a porn movie about that?

Blogger Zaklog the Great September 04, 2014 10:57 AM  

Then again, it's not impossible for at least one bygone society to have been this stupid and shortsighted. After all, our society observably is.

Stupidity of that type is a luxury which our society could temporarily afford. I find it difficult to imagine that any society on Earth up until the 18th century at least was wealthy enough to afford that sort of luxury.

Anonymous Krul September 04, 2014 10:58 AM  

PhillipGeorge(c)2014 - Apparently in a battle to the death two women and five children survived Masada. It was their tactical choice.

There was no "battle to the death" at Masada. The 960 Zealots chose to kill themselves rather than submit to Roman rule. The two women and five children who survived did so by hiding in a cistern. No woman warriors to see here, I'm afraid.

Anonymous Anonymous September 04, 2014 11:05 AM  

Badass Valkyrie? No problem. Badass midget named Karen Murphy? Not so much.

Yeah, in one book, Harry finds himself looking around in the middle of a battle with a special sight (don't remember why) and he sees Murphy as some sort of avenging angel. I thought she was going to turn out to have special powers, or be "chosen" somehow like Michael, so we'd have some supernatural explanation of why she's so tough. No such luck.

Anonymous Emperor of Icecream September 04, 2014 11:09 AM  

Feminists really, really, really don't want to look to ancient societies for social cues. Two words: rape culture.

Anonymous Josh September 04, 2014 11:11 AM  

Wasn't there a porn movie about that?

Lesbian Dorito Night 3: eating the loco taco.

Anonymous The other skeptic September 04, 2014 11:18 AM  

The 960 Zealots chose to kill themselves rather than submit to Roman rule.

Ahhh. The original Jones Town.

Anonymous Krul September 04, 2014 11:22 AM  

CM - However, I love a good fantasy novel with a woman being a warrior... even if it is through magic or some special trait oddly unique to them.

I rather like female warrior characters in fiction, even without explanations, provided that they're good characters. Explanations like scifi weapons, magic, divine parentage and so forth are just aids for suspension of disbelief. Merely acknowledging that the woman warrior in question is an outlier, like Brienne of Tarth, is more than enough.

These characters become tiresome when they're presented as feminist icons instead of individual characters. It's a case of the same "message over story" problem that Larry Correia regularly points out.

Anonymous Porky September 04, 2014 11:29 AM  

Honestly, I do think Ronda Rousey could hold her own against a lot of guys.

If this were true it would be happening.

Anonymous Carlotta September 04, 2014 11:31 AM  

I have seen and experienced this first hand. In basic I was able to bench the income minimum for males. So could the smallest of the guys. But I was the only female out of over a hundred who did processing that day. Dad was a life long weight lifter who made us lift and I have always been freakish strong for a women. So is one of my daughters. It is not common by a long shot.

When we trained hand to hand the guys were kind to me and didn't beat the living shit out of me. They could have easily. Pound for pound they were stronger and faster at the pinacle of my youth and fitness.

Anonymous Carlotta September 04, 2014 11:34 AM  

Historical, anyone who thinks that a women was anywhere near a match for any warrior or any race or ethnic group is quite simply out of there mind. You had to marry a Spartan to protect you from the other Spartans. Period.

Anonymous Carlotta September 04, 2014 11:38 AM  


CM - However, I love a good fantasy novel with a woman being a warrior... even if it is through magic or some special trait oddly unique to them.



There was only one SciFi authoress who did this even remotely well. It was that male warriors had their wives trained to fight back to back with them if they were some how ambushed. The women would literally mold themselves to the husband's back, facing outward. They used small knives to defend him from attack from behind.

Read it years and years ago. The children were taught something similar. Quite interesting read.

Anonymous Bah September 04, 2014 11:56 AM  

Feminists really, really, really don't want to look to ancient societies for social cues. Two words: rape culture.

They deliberately refuse to acknowledge the existence of the medieval rape culture that (unfortunately) lives among them today, in increasing numbers. They'll have no problem remaining willfully blind to the reality of ancient rape cultures.

Anonymous Anonymous September 04, 2014 12:03 PM  

> Honestly, I often wonder how many historical accounts of warrior women are true.

Korean women's archery culture -- they've won *every* Olympic team gold medal since taking the opportunity in Seoul to introduce it -- appears to be well supported by archaeological evidence.

They don't have any pretensions about women standing up to men in melee combat, mind you. But in Korean terrain, a woman with a bow is pretty much as effective as a man with a bow, so hey women are a useful force multiplier.

Anonymous green darner September 04, 2014 12:15 PM  

How is it that feminists can scream both "Rape Culture!" and "Grrl Power!" at the same time?

Anonymous Former Army MP September 04, 2014 12:19 PM  

I suspect my time was fairly typical for women warriors. MP training is okay as long as you aren't in the field. You are in the field a fair amount, much less than combat arms, but more than most MOSes.

Driving is hard because you have to be awake. "SSGT, I can't drive. I am on my period and I have a headache."

The gunner spot is okay except for putting it up and down and when the bosses make you stay up standing behind the gun. "SSGT, I have to go in, my tampons don't work and I need a shower." "SGT Jones, tell Smith to help me with the 50. It is too heavy."

Very few TLs and SLs because they pregnancy or suck their way into PMO or unit training/typing slots by the time they hit E5, and how can you be a squad leader when you haven't been a team leader?

I was on the road (LE patrol) for a year. After they pregnancy and suck their way into evidence room, DARE program, traffic investigators, and bicycle they are few left to work so you end up working 12 hour shifts. Bicycle patrol ended up being Friday afternoons and two 12s on weekends. The other jobs were M-F 8-4 minus the appointments and PT time. The men worked five day 12s, three days off, rotate to mids, rinse and repeat, plus PT.

Two women did actual road patrol with us, one was worthless, would never fight, never did any work, and would drop a complaint at the first sign of getting called out for it. The other was okay until she fell in love at the same time she was up to get orders. She literally left me hanging with no back-up because she was screwing her fiance on mids and called in like she was backing me up even though she was at his barracks naked. I almost lost a fight and got hurt. She got a slight talking to, which she blocked by hinting she would call in for COO.

I have to think women throughout history have always been the same.

Anonymous wEz September 04, 2014 12:29 PM  

IF she could, it would be against untrained, non athletic types. Or similar weight men with minimal training. I think her training and technique would plow through many guys that have never trained. BUT, she's not very big. I could see an average male 170-180pds with average strength and no fighting background Knock her the F out with a clean shot before she gets an arm. Also would that weight advantage allow your average pissed off male to rip out of any potential sub or arm bar? Her conditioning and technique could carry her against a decent amount of untrained men. Against most trained men she gets worked over.
Against Floyd Mayweather she gets killed in 10 secs if he so pleases. Anyone that thinks otherwise is a retard in my book on so many levels.

Anonymous Trimegistus September 04, 2014 12:32 PM  

Green: same reason they can demand womyn's empowerment and be against guns. They're fucking idiots.

Blogger Karl September 04, 2014 12:36 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Karl September 04, 2014 12:38 PM  

Haters gonna hate. And Gisele Bündchen's gonna kick their asses.

enjoy the gifs. took the direct link out for being too long/breaking format.



http://mashable.com/2014/09/04/gisele-bundchen-under-armour-ad

Anonymous Stingray September 04, 2014 12:39 PM  

green darner,

It's a power play. All dominated by feels.

Anonymous Jack Amok September 04, 2014 12:42 PM  

I think she could send many an effeminate, pencil-neck geek to the hospital. Not that that's saying much.

Effeminate, pencil-neck geeks were less common in days of yore, especially on the battlefield.

Anyway, I suspect women dressing up as warriors may have been the Viking equivalent of women wearing football jerseys and eye black today. It's a way for a her to indicate what sort of guys she is interested in. Of course, her father wouldn't approve of her displaying such interest, but maybe he was already dead. Makes me wonder, is a high level of female misbehavior likely among warrior families where there's going to be (as Derrick Bosnell points out) a high death rate among fathers.

Blogger John Williams September 04, 2014 12:43 PM  

wEz, I'm guessing you've never wrestled with a girl friend?

Anonymous Harsh September 04, 2014 12:49 PM  

How is it that feminists can scream both "Rape Culture!" and "Grrl Power!" at the same time?

Because realizing the contradiction would require the ability to use logic, which that crowd is sorely lacking.

Anonymous Harsh September 04, 2014 12:52 PM  

However, I love a good fantasy novel with a woman being a warrior... even if it is through magic or some special trait oddly unique to them.

Nothing wrong with the occasional Red Sonja. I just don't believe in a whole army of them.

Anonymous VD September 04, 2014 12:53 PM  

Haters gonna hate. And Gisele Bündchen's gonna kick their asses.

That ad shows precisely what I'm talking about. Look how long that kick takes to get up and come around. You'd have to be not paying attention or inanimate to actually get hit by it. Also, she's using her rear leg rather than her front leg, which makes it even slower.

If she was sparring, she'd get popped right in the face before her knee even rose above her waist. She's so slow you could stick her with a sidekick in response to her starting to throw a roundhouse kick. And look how her guard is first too low, then flies completely apart when she throws the kick. Granted, she's a model doing fitness, not a trained martial artist, much less an actual fighter, but those are the sort of things that a real fighter will pick up on instantly.

Of course, all that the untrained idiots of both sexes notice is that her foot actually hit the bag. WARRIOR WOMAN!

Blogger Unknown September 04, 2014 12:54 PM  

Here's an idea: Given the human genome, would it be possible to breed a society of large, strong, aggressive women and small, weak, passive men?

You know, force the biggest, baddest gals to have as many girls as possible with selected biggest baddest dudes, while allowing only the John Scalzi types to father boys?

Seems there was a Star Trek: The Next Generation episode based on this premise.

Blogger CM September 04, 2014 12:58 PM  

Makes me wonder, is a high level of female misbehavior likely among warrior families where there's going to be (as Derrick Bosnell points out) a high death rate among fathers.

Modern stories would say it's an absence of mothers that leads to girls playing with swords. Makes more sense to me than absence of father. Girls grow up mimicking the people around them. If there's no mom mending tunics and nursing babies, she'll mimic dad's interests.

Those same stories often portray the girl warrior with better moral values than their more feminine counterparts.

Anonymous wEz September 04, 2014 1:02 PM  

Its amazing how many people out there think Rousey could beat Floyd Mayweather in the octagon. In fact, the last time this topic got brought up here I asked respected co-workers of mine what they thought, and most thought Rousey could win.
Lets see, floyds has elite speed and endurance, probably 3x the strength, ridiculous reflexes and timing and would get caught by a lighter, slower, weaker female just because its her discipline...right. Even if she were to grab an arm, I venture to guess he'd explode out quite easily before putting her out cold in seconds.
I would be absolutely shocked if she lasted 30 secs if he was out of blood.

Anonymous wEz September 04, 2014 1:04 PM  

Sorry, for blood.

Anonymous wEz September 04, 2014 1:11 PM  

Sure, plently of times. Now its just the wife, homie.

Anonymous Corvinus September 04, 2014 1:35 PM  

What it establishes is that a hair less than half of Viking migrants were female, which is no surprise to anyone who’s been paying attention.

Iceland is well-known for having been settled by Norse male-Irish female couples, using the Norse language. But because of these patrilocal (and patri-lingual) settlement patterns, we may presume that Norse female-Irish male couples settled in Ireland, using Irish.

Blogger Karl September 04, 2014 1:44 PM  

Seems there was a Star Trek: The Next Generation episode based on this premise.

I think you are thinking about an episode of the TV show Sliders (people travel to alternate universe versions of our world), where the U.S. is run as a femiarchy.Season 1, Ep7

The Weaker Sex
In a world where women dominate authority and traditional gender roles are reversed, Professor Arturo becomes the first male candidate for mayor. Although initially welcoming of the advances of a powerful woman, Rembrandt laments the manner in which he is tricked and used.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112167/episodes?season=1&ref_=tt_eps_sn_5

Blogger rycamor September 04, 2014 2:00 PM  

Haters gonna hate. And Gisele Bündchen's gonna kick their asses.

That ad shows precisely what I'm talking about. Look how long that kick takes to get up and come around. You'd have to be not paying attention or inanimate to actually get hit by it. Also, she's using her rear leg rather than her front leg, which makes it even slower.

If she was sparring, she'd get popped right in the face before her knee even rose above her waist. She's so slow you could stick her with a sidekick in response to her starting to throw a roundhouse kick. And look how her guard is first too low, then flies completely apart when she throws the kick. Granted, she's a model doing fitness, not a trained martial artist, much less an actual fighter, but those are the sort of things that a real fighter will pick up on instantly.

Of course, all that the untrained idiots of both sexes notice is that her foot actually hit the bag. WARRIOR WOMAN!


But the sound bro, listen to that sound. She connects and there's a BOOM!. And that bag had to move at LEAST 4 inches each time.

Anonymous Anonymous September 04, 2014 2:03 PM  

about Rousey:
you people do realize that she and every other pro female fighter and athlete are stuffed full with steroids, right? their physical capabilities are far beyond that of "non-roided" females. also roiding females gain more advantage over non-roiding females than roiding males do over non-roiding ones.
comparing them to average, "natural" males to decide how well women can/would do in combat is rather misleading.

Anonymous Mr. Rational September 04, 2014 2:45 PM  

Eh, this is old Spider Robinson stuff:

"The Swordbroad: Invented by a tribe of fanatical male chauvinists, the Prix, this armament consisted of a wife gripped by the ankles and whirled like a flail (Prix warriors made frequent jocular allusion to the sharp cutting edge of their wives' tongues). The weapon died out, along with the Prix, in a single generation for tolerably obvious reasons."

Anonymous ? September 04, 2014 3:27 PM  

But in Korean terrain, a woman with a bow is pretty much as effective as a man with a bow, so hey women are a useful force multiplier.

Was that actually tried in pre-gunpowder Korea? If not, why not?

Anonymous Former Army MP September 04, 2014 3:28 PM  

I have only ever fought drunk women, and then only as an MP. You really have to watch the claws as they go for your face and eyes.

Use the maglight or stick on their forearms, one of you knocks them down, then get them on their stomach, one of you kneeling on the head and shoulders, the other on the back of their thighs, and wrestle their arms into the cuffs, then hobble them and hook it to the cuffs. Otherwise you will get cut and bit bad, and kicked medium hard.

I did get clawed hard on the arm once, the girl MP I was with threw her across some tables like an old west movie which made it worse because she got up and started throwing stuff and some of the drunk guys wanted to white knight. Those scrapes took a while to heal.

I lied, After service I took away a drunk woman's keys at a big party when she was mad at her BF and wanted to drive off and the roads were full of kids (lake beach area). I grabbed them, smacked her in the head, knocked her down, and walked away. She ended up trying to mess with a few guys looking for me. I will never take another clawing.

Blogger John Williams September 04, 2014 4:02 PM  

But the sound bro, listen to that sound.
Then she punched it, pitter patter pitter patter, like a kitten playing with an empty box.

@wEz, Good to hear.

Blogger Pseudotsuga September 04, 2014 6:14 PM  

I am not an extensive expert on Korea, but I am unaware of any historical examples of bow-wielding women in Korea up until recent, late 20th century times. There are a couple reasons I doubt there were very many of them in history:
(1) Confucian class roles -- where would the woman bow wielder have fit in the regimented world of Confucianism?
(2) Confucian gender roles -- why would the woman be allowed a bow? Get back in the kitchen and make kimchi sammiches!
I don't argue that it NEVER EVER happened,but I doubt it happened very often outside of desperation or necessity.
We can look over at Japan, at the history behind the naginata and women for a parallel-- women who were trained in it to defend their homes were aristocrats and didn't accompany troops into the field. If Korean women did use weapons, I'll bet you dollars to ttukboki that it was a similar occasion.

Blogger Pseudotsuga September 04, 2014 6:40 PM  

I did find one article (http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2014/07/628_161432.html) which mentions women and archery. According to the writer, Chung Hae-eun, some photos "taken after the modernization of Korea show women practicing archery." But that's 20th century Korea, after archery was no longer seen as one skill that a proper Confucian gentleman must know.

Blogger Duke of Earl September 04, 2014 6:41 PM  

Perhaps spear or other longarms would be used for poking an enemy, preferably from behind a barricade, as a last line of defence, but swords/maces/axes in melee on an open battlefield?

I'm not seeing it.

Anonymous Jack Amok September 04, 2014 8:49 PM  

Modern stories would say it's an absence of mothers that leads to girls playing with swords.

That's not what I meant by "female misbehavior" though. I was thinking more of women making sexual spectacles of themselves in an effort to attract male attention, and spending their young adulthood riding the carousel.

Anonymous Leonidas September 04, 2014 9:29 PM  

That sort of dojo bunny never stuck around for long. The sort that did ended up marrying both of our senseis.

That's how I met my wife.

Vox, from your experience, are the women in dojos better than women you would meet in bars in terms of marriage material?

My wife was the one who introduced me to The Misandry Bubble and then was happy when I started learning more about Game... so I'd say that was a good sign.

More generally, though, studying martial arts for any length requires a good bit of self discipline - for men or women - in today's society because there's really no big outside pressure to do it. So anybody who manages to attain a reasonable rank at a serious (or even semi-serious) dojo has, at the very least, demonstrated at least some level of long time preference. Again, man or woman that's a good sign in a marriage partner. And as a general rule, if they're serious about it they tend not to be land whales.

Most importantly, my wife looks cute in a gi.

Anonymous Anonymous September 04, 2014 9:43 PM  

Reading the Wikipedia article you referenced leads me to suspect that the moniker "International Cruelty Artist" is your heartfelt expression of compassion to the human race and a clarion call to wake the f up..

Anonymous Maddog September 05, 2014 12:07 AM  

Tor.com is a censorship and Librag and should be amongst the first against the fence when the revolution comes.

I have to say this as well. I laughed my ass off reading about you punching the wannabe female warrior in the face and her leaving with CROCK tears.

Just two or three years ago I would have thought it was wrong. But these femanazi's have taught me a valuable lesson. You need to force reality on people or they will try to create a false one of there choosing.

This BS about half the warriors being women is nuts when you consider how important mother ship would have been to the survival of any warrior clan. Meaning much of the Women would have had to stay at home. Just common sense that one can come up with in a matter of seconds when you ponder the situation.

Like a Clan of Pink skirted Jim See'HineyHoes trying to invade Asgard. It's not something that is sustainable. Just the same as much of their logic and agenda.

Anonymous maddog September 05, 2014 12:17 AM  

Yes Rousey is full of Roids, Hell Serena Williams has bigger shoulders then Lebron james(true)

Now I"m sure Rousey would beat me in most matches. As I'm sure there are other trained women that could do the same. But it's the rare quark that is always out there.

No need not to concede that there are some bad ass women out there. Just bad judgement to not take into account the usual difference when it comes to a job that relies on physical talent.

The Army being one that will and no doubt has gotten people killed as women not being able to rescue and haul a 200 plus pound man back to safety.

We have Age Discrimination in these fields as well. Most women of course would admit that they refuse to go to war with a 12 year old and they could come up with the exact reasons a man would a woman. But as of yet, That agism isn't an issue. Though I can definitely see there utopia turning into some Mao unwise youth nightmare.

Anyway People who do not admit reality are the truth are the ones who think it should be changed to fit there agenda as they don't find it nicely accomadates what they wish to perceive reality as.

Sadly for them The Truth does not give a Shit. It's not morally right or wrong and it's non judgement and it calls a spade a spade every time.

Being a enemy of the truth will always turn into disaster.

Blogger buzzardist September 05, 2014 12:08 PM  

Here's an idea: Given the human genome, would it be possible to breed a society of large, strong, aggressive women and small, weak, passive men?

Given the human genome, no, probably not. Yes, it's possible to have a lot of weak, effeminate males--limit their testosterone. Yes, it's possible to have stronger-than-average females--give them extra testosterone. But to breed them this way? Unlikely, especially for women. Women's bodies are the way they are because their softer, curvier bodies are designed for bearing children. Breed stronger women, and testosterone will make their bones, ligaments, tendons, and muscles less conducive to squeezing a large head out of a small hole. It's not a trait that passes down well from one generation to the next, at least not without intensive medical intervention.

Blogger Unknown September 05, 2014 6:55 PM  

There is one thing I did not find that would give us a better clue to if they were warriors than burial paraphernalia: What kind of injuries did these skeletons sustain during their lives? These women were not uber fighters like Red Sonja and Xena. If they functioned as warriors then they probably sustained some sort of combat related injury at some point.

Anonymous Corvinus September 07, 2014 10:26 PM  

Here's an idea: Given the human genome, would it be possible to breed a society of large, strong, aggressive women and small, weak, passive men?

Given the human genome, no, probably not.


Correction: only as a subset. You know, like feminists.

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