Vox Popoli: We Are Real People

I have received more messages, publicly and privately, from fans who enjoy and buy my works but who, deeply offended at at least four, perhaps more, of the ranking officers of my publisher, have told me they can no longer buy my works.

This is unprecedented, or, I should say, at least I have never heard of readers disavowing books based not on the content or author, but the publisher. Some have likewise written to Tor books to express their displeasure at this high handed and unprofessional treatment.

However, the latest slander issued from the enemy is that these readers do not exist.

They are trying to blank you out of their minds. You are unpersons. The claim is that the emails and letters sent to Tor expressing the displeasure of the customer are said to be faked, counterfeit, written by robots.

As does Peter Grant:

I'm sure you've been reading my posts about the Tor debacle over the past days. It's time for action, and I'd be very grateful if each of you would please help by sending one e-mail separately to three different addresses tomorrow.

Vox Day came up with the idea. Note that I'm not one of his 'Rabid Puppies' or 'minions'. I'll simply take allies where I can get them, thank you very much! I'm aware that some SJW's regard him as being in league with the Devil. To that I can only make common cause with Winston Churchill: "If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favourable reference to the devil in the House of Commons." So, Vox, this is my best Churchillian imitation!

As does Tor Books author L. Jagi Lamplighter:

Appalled to see posts suggesting that the emails to Tor—many of which, I am led to understand, are arriving with photos of the reader’s Tor book collections, in some cases, collections worth thousands of dollars—were not legitimate but were sent from automated bots.

Tor Folks: You may disagree with the Sad/Rabid Puppies, or feel loyalty to your co-workers—but please! Don’t insult our readers by claiming they don’t exist!

Readers: I realize that, in the age of electronics,this is an unprecedented request, but: if you have a strong opinion that you wish to be heard, it might help if you committed it to physical paper—perhaps along with a printout of your photo of your Tor book collection—and snail mailed it to Tor and Macmillan.

Meanwhile, George Martin demonstrates the truth of the aphorism: "SJWs always lie":

I have spoken out against name-calling from the first, Brad. It is the Puppies and their supporters who started it, and who keep dialing it up. I will concede that you yourself have been mostly civil, but read the comments in your own blog, or Correia's, or even on FILE 770, and it is all venom and epithets.

No, Teresa Nielsen Hayden and Patrick Nielsen Hayden started the name-calling back in March 2005. Martin then goes on to do more of what SJWs always do, which, of course, is lie:

The vast majority of customers have no idea about any of this. The “unhappiness” here is a campaign orchestrated by the odious Mr. Beale, and once again you Sad Puppies have lined up behind the Rabids. Early in this debate, I heard a lot of stuff from your side about careers being threatened and your opponents saying “you will never work in this town again” and similar crap. Not one instance of that was ever substantiated. But now we are seeing a deliberate internet campaign to cost someone their career — and it is coming from VD, with the full howling support of Puppies of all stripes. No one on “my side” ever threatened anyone’s livelihood or career. Your side is doing just that. In public.

Emphasis added. That's an absolutely absurd lie. Look at the post below for starters. Or look at this list of victims of the ongoing SJW witch patrol. And even if we limit Martin's claim to the small world of science fiction publishing, Charles Stross warned me that I'd somehow managed to unwittingly make "a career-limiting move" by writing an opinion column as a nationally syndicated opinion columnist ten years ago. Martin is not telling the truth. Look, we all know that if Irene Gallo had called Tor's customers "half-savages" or "hymies" or "faggots" instead of "racist, sexist, homophobic neo-Nazis", she'd have been disappeared that same day. Are some customers less equal than others in the eyes of Tor Books? Are they less valued?

Note that we've seen a Nobel laureate and a principal in Florida banished from the commons in just the two weeks since Ms Gallo's public attack on Tor customers and Tor authors was first brought to Mr. Doherty's attention. George Martin's side has been waging war against people's livelihoods and careers for years, if not decades. And his side knows it. Hence this little warning ten years ago:

"The people who live and work and pitch their tents in this field have long memories. You'll have to share the same field with them for a long time -- decades, maybe -- if you want to be in it at all. And you've just offended 75% of them? This is Not Clever. You may not need them now, but you have no idea what your circumstances will look like in ten years' time.... In a corporate environment it's sometimes termed a career-limiting move. I think you just made a career-limiting move."
- Charles Stross, March 5, 2005

In any event, the increased hysteria from the other side means that they know the pressure on Tor Books is growing, from above and from below. Their position is totally indefensible and they know it. So have you sent your three emails yet today? If not, why are you still reading this? If you oppose what you've been seeing, then it's time to get out of the stands and get in the game. It's time to tell Macmillan that you are a real person and your opinion counts.

tom.dohertyATtor.com
andrew.weberATmacmillan.com
rhonda.brownATmacmillan.com

So much for that theory that there is no other side. Not only has this nonexistent other side, as per Mr. Martin, never done nothing to nobody, but they're emailing Tor Books and Macmillan too. Because they are also real people who do "not want the community to reflect the views of Theodore Beale and his rabid puppies." Of course, they're missing the central point, which is that it is not the job of anyone at Tor Books to play thought-police and eliminate those views from the community.

Labels: Puppies, SJW

212 Comments:

Cataline Sergius June 15, 2015 8:07 AM: No one on “my side” ever threatened anyone’s livelihood or career.

Forgive Cataline for quoting Cataline.

WHERE THE FUCK HAS HE BEEN?
HickoryHammer #0211 June 15, 2015 8:18 AM: These people are Orwell's nightmare. They are beyond the pale. But I refuse to live with a boot stamping my face into the mud, not for a single minute!
Blue Meanie June 15, 2015 8:26 AM: I AM NOT A BOT! I AM A HUMAN BEING!
Foseti June 15, 2015 8:26 AM: If you're looking for a more comprehensive list of people that have been purged by SJW's, Handle's list has been kept nicely up to date:
https://handleshaus.wordpress.com/2013/12/26/bullied-and-badgered-pressured-and-purged/
Russell Morrison June 15, 2015 8:27 AM: No one on "my side" ever threatened anyone's livelihood or career.

In 3...2...1...

Those people are not really on my side.

SJWs always lie.
Russell Morrison June 15, 2015 8:28 AM: This comment has been removed by the author.
AlteredFate #92 June 15, 2015 8:36 AM: Vox has made a career out of making career limiting moves. At this point he can use threats to his career as collateral for seven figure loans amounts.
Simon June 15, 2015 8:38 AM: Mencius Moldbug was recently booted from a tech conference based solely on his political views:

http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/bitwise/2015/06/curtis_yarvin_booted_from_strange_loop_it_s_a_big_big_problem.html
Rabbi B June 15, 2015 8:43 AM: ". . . solely on his political views."

And there's the rub as well. We are not asking for Ms. Gallo's resignation based on her views, political or otherwise.
T June 15, 2015 8:43 AM: SJWs are all individuals doing individual things! Just like how race doesn't exist because you can break it down further to clans and families, they use the same stupid logic to pretend they have no identity while gleefully painting their enemies with the bucket tool in MSPaint.

Freeze, polarize, personalize their enemies. Deny their own identity at all costs.

It's the basic strategy of critical theory.
Nate June 15, 2015 8:43 AM: have to send them out a little late today. teaching at vacation bible school this week... and well that's the real game.
Stilicho #0066 June 15, 2015 8:45 AM: In any event, the increased hysteria from the other side means that they know the pressure on Tor Books is growing, from above and from below. Their position is totally indefensible and they know it.

Can't stop the signal...
Astrosmith June 15, 2015 8:46 AM: Done!
JC NRA June 15, 2015 8:47 AM: Done.

(I am Spartacus.)
Cail Corishev June 15, 2015 8:49 AM: I almost have a sort of respect for GRRM here, because he knows his audience (that passage was written for SJWs, not for those it's addressed to). He's decided to be the Fat Troll King of the SJWs, but he's cynical and aware enough to realize what that means: lie like a rug. Lie casually and outrageously. Truth? Truth is for suckers; no one believes in truth anymore.

SJWs don't want to hear arguments or facts in favor of their side; they want pep talks to work up their hate against the Other. When you have a pep rally for your sports team, you don't give reasoned arguments about the pros and cons of your team and its realistic chances of winning; you give mindless rah-rah "We're the champions and they suck!" boosterism. That's what he's giving them, so the absurdity isn't a problem; it's a benefit, because it tweaks their emotions and gets them worked up.
Mr.MantraMan June 15, 2015 8:53 AM: Can I ask in the email to Tom D. why he tolerates Gallo's political litmus test's?
PVB June 15, 2015 8:53 AM: I love this! And I have zero to do with SF, GG or any of it. The closest I've been to reading SF is Jason and the Argonauts 40 years ago (loved Greek mythology) and I flirted with Motocross Madness a decade ago and recently got sucked into Real Racing 3. History aside though, watching the "odious" Mr. Beale outmaneuver and outwit the SJWs is easily as entertaining as the Superbowl. Watching them squirm as they realize they are up against an implacable foe waging a scorched earth campaign is vicarious victory for all those who have had the SJW cultural abuse heaped on us for years and have been unable to find an effective recourse.

A tip of the hat to the "odious" Mr. Beale. A true super villain to the enemy and patriot to Western Civilization.
TB June 15, 2015 8:55 AM: Dear Mr. Doherty,
Just a note, rednecks from small-town flyover country also read TOR books. Most recently I purchased the book 'Count To A Trillion' at my local Barnes and Noble. And, perhaps surprisingly, I am not a Nazi, neo or otherwise. I don't much like being called one.
Mr Doherty, if I referred to my company's clients in public in the way your employees did, I would be fired. If I hated my company's clients that much, I would quit.
Can you explain why your employees have not either quit or been fired? These people are blowing up the company you founded and lead. They hate the product you sell and the people who buy your product.
Please send me a reply with an answer to my question. It was not rhetorical; I'd really like to know.
Thank you,
VD June 15, 2015 8:55 AM: Can I ask in the email to Tom D. why he tolerates Gallo's political litmus tests?

You can do whatever you like. I doubt he'll answer, but it can't hurt to ask.
WhiteKnightLeo #0368 June 15, 2015 8:56 AM: I AM SPARTACUS! Emails away.
Remo - Vile Faceless Minion #99 June 15, 2015 8:58 AM: Oh yes - my emails have been launched with follow up requests and promises of more if no acknowledgement of them is forthcoming. Polite but insistent, Gallo to the gallows please. I do tire of being labeled a Nazi.
Gunnar von Cowtown June 15, 2015 8:59 AM: Emails sent. The funny thing is, I didn't think I had much of a stake in Gallogate. Then I started looking through my book collection and realized I'd been reading Brian Lumley and F. Paul Wilson since 1992, both published under the "Tor Horror" imprint. So, I've been putting food on that company's table for over 20 years and their senior management calls me "neo-nazi"?!? Now I'm good and pissed off. Vox, thanks for shining a light on these roaches.
Stilicho #0066 June 15, 2015 9:05 AM: Magna Carta is 800 years old today!
Anonymous June 15, 2015 9:07 AM: That is interesting, Simon, and I wasn't aware that Moldbug's name was known to all. He'll be fine, of that I'm sure.
Anonymous June 15, 2015 9:08 AM: @TB - That is an excellent email, well done.
A Wiser Man Than I June 15, 2015 9:09 AM: Emails sent.
Bro. Longtail June 15, 2015 9:10 AM: Done. Three emails. Mentioned that I'm writing from Bermuda. Hoping to cement the impression that this is an international situation with far-reaching consequences, and not just an angry redneck 'Tea Party' thing, organised by Mother Brain Vox sipping espresso in a cafe in Italy.

I'm going to have Twisted Sister's 'We're Not Going to Take It' stuck in my head all day.
p-dawg June 15, 2015 9:11 AM: Task completed.
ODG June 15, 2015 9:13 AM: "I'm Brian and so's my wife!"

Emails sent.

(I think it's funny that Capcha says "Please prove you're not a robot." That's the entire point of this matter!)
Joel #0164 June 15, 2015 9:18 AM: Ah. I love the smell of frightened SJWs in the morning.

Also, I'm glad I've only ever purchased one GRRM book. Knowing what I know about him now, I wouldn't give that fat, lying bastard a single cent.
Mr.MantraMan June 15, 2015 9:19 AM: Short email to Tom asking why he allowed such a zealot free reign to be the chokepoint for literature.

PC is a religion and Gallo pure zealot. They all are because to simply ask them where they are not in line with PC and to be specific they cannot answer. Look at old Rape Rape Martin, that old creep was brought back into line so fast the Dorito dust is still in the air, that is the PC line and he has his toes up on it.
Jack Aubrey June 15, 2015 9:20 AM: I have done thy bidding, Master.
Lulabelle (68) June 15, 2015 9:27 AM: Foseti - thanks for that link.....you saved me having to go hunt for it.
Elijah Rhodes June 15, 2015 9:27 AM: Here's what I sent:

I’m writing to express my indignation toward the senior staff at Tor who have espoused vitriolic contempt toward those of us who joined the Sad/Rabid Puppy campaigns. The response from Irene Gallo and later affirmed by Moshe Feder is not only repugnant, but very revealing about the culture at Tor. I don’t typically care about the ideology of the companies I do business with, but in this case I must take a stand.

I will not purchase anything from a company whose creative director reprehensibly referred to me as a member of a neo-nazi group, and as an unrepentant racist, misogynist, and homophobe. I am none of those things. Nor will I do business with a company that is proving itself to be profoundly intellectually dishonest in its assessment and characterization of those of us who have pointed out that there is a serious cultural problem tainting the Hugo process.

My entire family are avid science fiction readers. It might not mean much to you to lose a couple dozen books a year, and perhaps a few more from my circle of influence, but for me it would be immoral to continue to support a company that holds me in disdain.

What the senior management at Tor/Macmillan might not realize is that those of us who joined the Puppies—who have been calling for story above message—are actually their biggest allies. Why? Because we, unlike the Haydens, Gallos, and Fedors of the world do not care one whit what ideology the authors we read hold. We want to be entertained with good stories. Period. Staffing your company with ideologues who apply a political litmus test to its authors, customers, and award recipeients is not a recipe for a successful and enduring business.

Can you regain me as a customer? Perhaps. But it will take clear and compelling public evidence that the rot at Tor has been removed, that the company has committed itself to great story above all, and mostly that the company values all its customers, not just the ones that march in political lock-step. In the mean time I will seek out good stories from other publishers and independent authors who value my patronage.

In case there is any doubt that I am a real person simply reply to this email and I’ll be happy to dialog further with you.
AmyJ June 15, 2015 9:30 AM: @Gunnar

I felt the same way, thinking about all of the Tor books I had purchased over the years. It wasn't until I actually wrote the emails that I truly felt outraged. I wouldn't let insults like "neo-nazi" slide in real life; why should it be any different online?
Gecko June 15, 2015 9:32 AM: All the sci fi fans disassociating with artificial intelligence this morning. Asimov is rolling over in his grave.
Alexander, #10 June 15, 2015 9:32 AM: Emails sent. The funny thing is, I didn't think I had much of a stake in Gallogate. Then I started looking through my book collection and realized ...

It's funny how this works. I thought the same thing - that I'll send the emails and fight back, but that economically I'm a nonissue to Tor.

But then went through the book shelf, and I not that Turtledove has a few odds and ends that have been published by Tor. The Crosstime series alone I spent $100* on. Throw in a few Card's, and whatever assortment of books that I technically bought once upon a time and are now just part of the library at my parents' house... and for someone who 'didn't buy from Tor anyway', there's a significant amount of cash.

* If there's one thing I really, really need to say Thank You to Amazon for, it's allowing me to read a book when it first comes out and not getting hammered with hardback prices. Spending over $100 for a young adult book series that I read once just for filler reading and because I like Turtledove is insane, but I remember at the time plonking down $25 per book with a 'it is what it is attitude'.

Seriously, even those of you who aren't going and counting up how much you've given to Tor, if you've spent the last couple of years reading electronically go pull some books off the shelf and look an the publisher's price. It's reverse sticker shock.
darkdoc June 15, 2015 9:32 AM: Sent x 3.

Dear ...,

I am a frequent buyer of books, particularly science fiction. I have at least 20 books (hardcover) by Tor published authors. I rarely buy Tor paperbacks, but often e-books.

I haven't in the past cared much about the Hugo Awards, but now find myself on the end of some very offensive attitudes and remarks by Irene Gallo of Tor Books. Her remarks are immature and customer insensitive. She can not divorce herself from the fact that she made these remarks as part of her role as a Tor editor, they were obviously related.

My family still feels the effects of Nazi atrocities in France in WW2, I lost both grandparents and many family. I am NOT, nor have ever been, a neo-Nazi, or any other kind. I have never supported this philosophy or these people. To be lumped in with them because I disagree with Gallo's politics, and then to be given no consideration by Mr. Doherty is unacceptable.

And no, I am not a bot.

I was an occasional Tor author customer, but not any more considering my social values are so offensive to Tor editors.

No more weak half-apologies, I expect wholesale structural (personnel) changes at Tor.
Dexter June 15, 2015 9:35 AM: Hey Foseti how come your quit blogging? I liked your work!
VFM bot #188 June 15, 2015 9:36 AM: Science fiction is just a small corner in the culture wars...yet we are in the vanguard. We are showing how to do it. Other societal sub-groups will take notice, including business, entertainment, academia, media, and other realms.

IDENTIFY them. NAME them. TARGET them.
AbuDhabi June 15, 2015 9:36 AM: Sent.

Now I feel dirty. Like an activist of some sort.
bob k. mando June 15, 2015 9:45 AM: Or whatever delusion your underlings have come up with this week. This is not only a lie, it is a trivially dis-proven lie. Is this the standard of performance that you ask of those who work for you, who shepherd the company you created into the future?

A critical management skill is the ability to tell ( or at least figure out ) when your subordinates are lying to you, in order to skew your decision making processes or to avoid punishment for their own malfeasance.

The accusation has been made that this brouhaha has been 'manufactured' by Theodore Beale ( internet nom de plume: Vox Day ). No. This was created by Irene Gallo accusing me, and many like me, of being a "neo-nazi". This was created by Moshe Feder of concurring *with her* that several of your own Tor authors are "neo-nazi". This was created by Patrick and Teresa Nielsen Hayden concurring *with her* that a large portion of the book buying public constitutes "neo-nazis".

This is a libel. A libel which Irene has NOT apologized for ( her apology was that she was 'sorry' if we took offense to being called a "neo-nazi", she has never expressed remorse for actually lying about us ) and which most of her immediate management structure asserts is true.

This is not acceptable behavior from a company which hopes that I will spend my money with them.

I will not threaten you. I will not harangue you. I will say only this; Theodore has been enduring the insults, abuses and machinations of the Nielsen Haydens for almost 10 years now. Other employees of Tor books have expanded this calumny to many thousands more people, just within the last week. It's time and past time that this behavior was stopped.

Fulfill your responsibilities as management or I will take my business to a company that can adhere to minimal standards of comportment.

Since your management team sees fit to accuse me of being part of a bot attack, I ask that you expend to courtesy of a NON-automated response. I'd hate to have to characterize your reply as having been 'sent by a bot'.

While I have the ( nominal ) attention of the president of Tor, here's an actual question FOR YOU Mr. Doherty:

You have an award winning author named John C. Wright. His current series is called the 'Count to the Eschaton Sequence', the first novel of which 'Count To A Trillion' was published in 2011, the second volume of which 'The Hermetic Millenia' was published in 2012. The fourth novel 'Architect of Aeons' was just released two months ago ... but only the first novel, 'Count...' has ever been printed in Mass Market Paperback.

Do you have any plans to print the rest of the sequence in MMP? If not, why not? Because, as it looks from the outside, this would appear to be an assault on Mr. Wright's livelihood by upper level Tor management ... probably due to Wright's relatively recent conversion from atheist to the Catholic Church.

I write this question as a Baptist, with no particular love for the RCC but a great respect for the authorial abilities of the estimable Mr. John C. Wright.

It is time and past time for Tor to either step up to the plate and market him as he deserves or to allow Mr. Wright to take his works to a publisher who will IF he so chooses. With no strings or entangling contracts restricting him.
jaericho (#107) June 15, 2015 9:47 AM: No, *I* am Spartacus!
Ridip June 15, 2015 9:52 AM: Just a reminder. CC Vox in your emails. I forgot and sent a reply with CC to all three.
bob k. mando June 15, 2015 9:52 AM: sent all three, have excised the Tom specific content for the two Macmillan execs.
#334 June 15, 2015 9:52 AM: I notice Peter Grant calling for cc's to either him or Vox on these three emails today so they can be counted. I missed any reference to that here: sloppy reading, I guess.

For the record, I've mailed all three this morning.
#0006 Hammer June 15, 2015 9:54 AM: "No one on “my side” ever threatened anyone’s livelihood or career"

There is also the small problem of calling Mr Wright a neo-nazi. Why would I, and many others, buy bad-to-reprehensible books from a neo-nazi? And how does our decision not directly affect Mr Wright's livelihood or career?
Salt June 15, 2015 9:57 AM: 3 emails sent.
Anonymous June 15, 2015 9:57 AM: Foseti is here? That's great, loved his blog as well. Foseti, would love to meet for a pint now that I'm back in DC for a bit (new gig).
Mussorgsky112 June 15, 2015 9:58 AM: Mr. Doherty,

It has come to my attention that several of your high-ranking employees have been insulting me recently, and they have done so publicly. It has also come to my attention that these same people and others are accusing us of being outraged over nothing or, worse, not actually existing and being sock-puppets, bots, or otherwise unreal. Let me assure you that I am indeed a real person.

I have not been a recent participant in the Sad Puppies campaign nor am I involved with the Rapid Puppies group. That said, I got involved in the very first round of Sad Puppies with Lone Star Con 3. I found the idea of getting involved with the Hugo Awards compelling and exciting. Little did I know that I would later be called, "racist, misogynist, and homophobic" as well as potentially being a "neo-nazi." Your employees may have no problem tossing around such words but they should think before they paint with such broad strokes. Firstly, I have watched from the sidelines on the current and previous Sad Puppies campaigns and have seen absolutely nothing that fits under any of those categories. Second, all but a few members of my family were murdered in Germany. That's right, my family is Jewish and was nearly wiped out for the "crime" of being Jews in Germany at the wrong time. I despise actual NAZIs... but have never seen anyone in these campaigns behave in any such manner. Neither am I a NAZI, Mr. Doherty.

If I had made such accusations of my customers and clients (insofar as your own authors have been insulted) I would most certainly have been sacked and quickly. My former employer would have issued a statement about the matter and run away from it with haste. You, though, you have done neither. Your apology was to distance yourself from the Gallo's remarks, neither punishing her, nor addressing the actual words she said, nor addressing previous statements by others. This is not acceptable.

There was once a time when I bought books based on subject and/or author. I buy history books by authors I enjoyed and on subjects I liked. I likewise bought my sci-fi and fantasy books because of a good premise or a good author. My collection has a fair number of Tor books: Fred Saberhagen, R.A. Salvatore, Margaret Weis, Orson Scott Card, and L.E. Modesitt. I was even considering buying "The Three-Body Problem" on account of hearing it to be a solid book. I own only one book by John C. Wright and was also thinking of getting more of his works. But no longer, Mr. Doherty, no longer will I be buying any books whatsoever from your publishing house. I refuse to give my money to a company that seems entirely populated with those who hate me and those who cover for them. Furthermore, seeing as how they are the parent company and have been seemingly absent through all of this, I am seriously reconsidering buying anything from MacMillan. You have lost me as a customer. I will be telling my friends precisely why this is the case. Oh, and I'll be mentioning your name as the enabler-in-chief, the one who sits by and encourages this kind of behavior through a terrible lack of action.

In short, Mr. Doherty, I am a real person and you are responsible for losing me as a paying customer. As to your company, I can only say this: memento mori

In indignation,

Benjamin Abrams

P.S. Even though I highly doubt you would even consider it, I would appreciate a reply stating, at the least, that you received this message. You could still win me back as a customer, Mr. Doherty, but it would require you to clean house to the extent that Hercules cleaned the stables. I find the image appropriate as your house appears to be full of excrement.
Mussorgsky112 June 15, 2015 10:00 AM: Longtime lurker here, only ever commented a few times, but I agree with one of the main themes here: SJW delenda est.
RL (#0052) June 15, 2015 10:01 AM: Three emails sent-forgot to CC you.
Anonymous June 15, 2015 10:01 AM: These businessmen are busy, I would suggest short and punchy in the emails. Also, any longer and it's a lot easier for them to dismiss you are cranks.
Alexander June 15, 2015 10:05 AM: Jourdan...

Then perhaps you can illuminate by sharing with all of us the emails you sent?

I don't think you are a concern troll. But between your veritably spastic mood swings between demanding we go full Genghis Khan and wanting to weep tears on behalf of our enemies, and your constant need to butt in and tell everyone who is actually doing stuff what they ought to do and how they ought to do it...

... well, let's just say that the line between actual and incidental is becoming less distinct over time.
XYZ June 15, 2015 10:07 AM: Here is Tor Books' PR person:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/emilymullen

"I currently work as the Senior Publicist for Tor/Forge Books, a division of Macmillan Publishers and the leading publisher of science fiction and fantasy. I can be reached at emily.mullen@tor.com and on Twitter: @AstoriaEmily78. For more info on the imprint, visit: http://torforgeblog.com/."
Mussorgsky112 June 15, 2015 10:08 AM: Just caught my typo of "Rapid Puppies." But I guess that just proves how uninvolved I've been!
RedJack #22 June 15, 2015 10:10 AM: Sent.

I am a man. Not a bot.
physics geek June 15, 2015 10:11 AM: Done. Now both Tor and MacMillan know that I am a real and pissed off customer. What they choose to do with that information is up to them. Of course, what I choose to do with my money with regards to their products is up to me.

As far as the "we won't sell this author's books because he/she is published by Satan's Spawn", I will simply say that the rot is deep. I was in the vendor area at Ravencon a few weeks ago and two different book sellers said that they would choose NOT to sell scifi grandmaster Jerry Pournelle books in the future because they disliked Vox so intensely. I noticed, of course, that they had many books by MZB on display and I commented -loudly- that it was good to see that admitted child molestors could still find people willing to sell their work. What can I say? I'm a giver.
Brother Thomas June 15, 2015 10:12 AM: Fight the oppressor. You have nothing to lose but your chains.
Anonymous June 15, 2015 10:16 AM: @ Alexander - That's a lot of butthurt over a difference of opinion on tactics.

I didn't call for us to go all Genghis Khan and then weep tears on behalf of our enemies: I said I thought a boycott was in order from the first to show we are serious (I still think this, and think we will eventually have to do this, they won't fire anyone) and then commented after seeing a picture of Gallo that I felt a moment's pity for her as it was then clear where her rage was coming from.

I don't see how suggesting short and punchy is somehow treason. Here is what I sent:

Sir -

I know that you and your owners up the chain are hearing from people who for some damn reason object to being told by a Tor associate publisher that they are racists and neo-nazis and that Tor's catalogue contains some bad-to-reprehensible writers.

We are real people, not spammers or bots, and we've been on the receiving end of a lot of abuse from people in your company. I think you should either take action to correct that or admit that left-wing politics is what Tor is about.
JartStar June 15, 2015 10:17 AM: There will be some fun meetings at Tor this week.
Doom June 15, 2015 10:20 AM: Done. I either cc'ed or sent you a copy. Each was different, based on sex and some little things, just so a word check, and simple reading, would show that each had been edited for the specific recipient. I did dance with the bot notion though. "No bot... like a robot? Nah, but I am a machine! :p", for Robin, as an example. Why not. They will either believe or they won't, anyway.
Cataline Sergius June 15, 2015 10:23 AM: Magna Carta is 800 years old today!

And it was revoked as soon as John could manage it.
Rabbi B June 15, 2015 10:24 AM: Dear -----------

It appears there might be some confusion about whether or not the emails I have sent to you and a few others within your organization came from a real person. Just in case it wasn't clear from the the content of my email, I thought I would take the time to follow up and reassure you that, yes, I am a real person, and unlike a bot, I am sincerely concerned about the behavior of some of the senior people currently employed by Tor, most notably Patrick Nielson Hayden, Moshe Feder, and Irene Gallo.

To reiterate, Irene Gallo needs to be held accountable for her unprofessional behavior and actions as of late. She is of course entitled to her personal views and opinions like anyone else, but as a respected employee who holds a prominent position of responsibility within a reputable publishing house, she simply is not afforded the luxury of expressing and directing insults in a public venue towards the customers who keep you in business and towards the authors whose work you publish.

Thank you again for taking the time to read my email and I hope you will thoughtfully consider my concern and the concerns of any others who may have written to you concerning the unprofessional behavior of Ms. Gallo.

In order to avoid any further misunderstandings, would you also be so kind as to send me a confirmation assuring me that you received my email.

Thank you . . . .

Sent x3 . . . .

VFM #0150 (a.k.a. Slayer of Six-Toed Uncircumcised Philistines)
Elocutioner0226 June 15, 2015 10:25 AM: I suspect the answer is "no", but has a single email to Tor or Macmillan received a reply yet?

It looks to me like Bateful Bigot was spot on yesterday and they're trying to ride this out in their bunker:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxJswUHTwd8
jaericho (#107) June 15, 2015 10:25 AM: Oh, I forgot to CC you Vox. I sent the three emails as well.
W.LindsayWheeler June 15, 2015 10:26 AM: I really do think that you, ALL, owe the Roman Catholic Church, and the Monarchs of Europe an apology.

Free speech is a fallacy. Progressives rule, and they get to dictate who holds a job. All of the universities and colleges are politically correct. You ALL, in some shape or another, have adopted some of the progressive platform including "Free Speech" and "Freedom of the Press".

NOW, you feel the sting. Liberalism, and many of you are liberals, libertarians, are facing the Rule of the Progressives. You've laid the groundwork for them. Protestants included.

I like how now all of you know what is coming around the corner.

The Roman Catholic Church, The Body of Christ, Guided by the Holy Spirit, was right all this time. The Rule of the SJW, i.e. Marxists, has begun.

It is written that "God shall laugh them to scorn". I hear laughter right about now.

You've created your own hell people. Enjoy the ride as laughter rains down from the Heavens.
Michelle *Minion #311* June 15, 2015 10:26 AM: Three emails send. The bastards. #notabot
slarrow June 15, 2015 10:29 AM: Sent 3, BCC'ed Vox on only the first (because I didn't want to spam him with three copies of the same thing--should have read Peter's post first about tracking the count.) Won't quote my whole piece, but I did use the subject, "I am a real person, not a Tor caricature" and threw this bit in:

Mr. Doherty, for the first time in my life (having just entered my fifth decade), I went to my bookshelf to check not the author of my favorite books but the publisher. I see Piers Anthony, Orson Scott Card, and Robert Jordan along with a scattering of other names. The publisher's mark is supposed to be, from my viewpoint, essentially a decoration or, at its best, a good guide to a new story that I'm likely to enjoy. I never saw it as a sign of contempt before.

We'll see if Gallo is fired. It would be nice, not for the satisfaction of collecting scalps (although schadenfreude is a real thing) but to enforce the dictates of professionalism. People screamed their head off about GamerGate invading the Hugos (which it didn't--check the timing), but this is how GG shows us what will work. Change the players, change the game.
FP June 15, 2015 10:29 AM: "It's funny how this works. I thought the same thing - that I'll send the emails and fight back, but that economically I'm a nonissue to Tor.

But then went through the book shelf, and I not that Turtledove has a few odds and ends that have been published by Tor. The Crosstime series alone I spent $100* on."

And your post inspired me to check my bookshelves for Turtledove and found a few of his published by Tor. Letters will go out today.
Ron Winkleheimer June 15, 2015 10:34 AM: sent
Steveo #238 June 15, 2015 10:35 AM: All in.

Nice list Foseti, thanks.

Though neither James G. Watt, Sect. Interior/Reagan or
Earl Butz, Sect. Ag/ Nixon & Ford were on the list (Jumped on the way back machine)

James Watt made a comment about the diversity on his coal panel.
Earl Butz told an off color racist joke to what he thought were friends, John Dean published it, not directly attributing it to E. Butz, but the math wasn't hard.

For those that want to make a PC world the manifest control of the people, one day you will receive that which you birthed in your petulant, ignorant, hatred. That day may be sooner than you think. I'm guessing it's sooner than Irene Gallo thought.
Steveo #238 June 15, 2015 10:36 AM: All in.

Nice list Foseti, thanks.

Though neither James G. Watt, Sect. Interior/Reagan or
Earl Butz, Sect. Ag/ Nixon & Ford were on the list (Jumped on the way back machine)

James Watt made a comment about the diversity on his coal panel.
Earl Butz told an off color racist joke to what he thought were friends, John Dean published it, not directly attributing it to E. Butz, but the math wasn't hard.

For those that want to make a PC world the manifest control of the people, one day you will receive that which you birthed in your petulant, ignorant, hatred. That day may be sooner than you think. I'm guessing it's sooner than Irene Gallo thought.
Mad Dok Rob June 15, 2015 10:45 AM: Emails have been sent...

...and I do feel like a dirty hippy activist now.
Peter June 15, 2015 10:49 AM: It's the rise of the evil bots!!!

http://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2015/06/gigglesnort.html

You can't make this stuff up . . .

:-)
borderwalker June 15, 2015 10:53 AM: Victor-Foxtrot-Mike-Three-Three-Two says,

"Fox One, Fox Two, Fox Three! All weapons away, and tracking!"
borderwalker June 15, 2015 10:53 AM: Victor-Foxtrot-Mike-Three-Three-Two says,

"Fox One, Fox Two, Fox Three! All weapons away, and tracking!"
Jack Ward June 15, 2015 10:53 AM: Emails sent much earlier this am. I think it was light outside.
Bro. Longtail June 15, 2015 10:55 AM: Dammit, I forgot to cc Vox. Sorry dude.
Double E June 15, 2015 10:55 AM: emails sent. This should be interesting.
VFM bot #188 June 15, 2015 10:55 AM: Three separate, distinct emails sent. CC'd to Dark Overlord of ELoE.
Double E June 15, 2015 10:55 AM: Damn I also forgot to cc you, vox. I will forward them to you.
Gecko June 15, 2015 10:55 AM: Poor George. His Ice and Fire series demonstrates his belief that the dishonest always win because they have more tools available than the honest. Despite the calls for fake reviews, etc, from his side, he's getting a dose of reality from real, honest people today.
Emperor of Icecream June 15, 2015 10:56 AM: Sent the emails.

I didn't include any RL info to prove I wasn't a bot, though. As I explained to Doherty and MacMillan, Gallo's hate-filled comments made me feel unsafe providing that information to her company.
Alexander June 15, 2015 11:00 AM: You know, File 770 comments continue to impress me... by how Vox has set this up. Xanatos, indeed.

Bunch of rabbits saying 'haha! (*We* are going to email the Tor people, and *We* are going to say how great they are)

Okay, to be fair, I suppose that is there best option at this point, but consider it from the point of Tor highups, or MacMillian.

1) A bunch of emails by people saying they are pissed off at your editors and artists and general corporate atmosphere. Bad for Tor

2) A bunch of emails by the people above. And additionally, a bunch of heated emails from the opposite. In short, you officers' email boxes have become a obvious and visible battleground in the culture wars. Also really bad for Tor.

The last thing any company wants is to overtly be in the middle of a clusterfuck where half its customer base is at war with the other half. Sending emails to Tor might - in isolation - be enough to let them weather the storm. But if I were at Macmillian I'd be wondering if there wasn't a way I could just shut the whole damn thing down.
Jack Ward June 15, 2015 11:01 AM: Second PVB [17], except to say its MORE entertaining than the Super Bowl. Of course, thats a low bar usually, though the bowl sometimes has a good year.

Thank You, Evil Lord of Evil and the Ilk and all the auxiliaries.
Northern Observer June 15, 2015 11:05 AM: GRRM re name calling: " It is the Puppies and their supporters who started it, and who keep dialing it up. "

What you have to remember is that when his side calls some a neo-Nazi or unrepentantly racist, misogynist, and homophobic or a stupid head, or whatever, they aren't name calling. They are simply stating facts.

It's only name calling if it's directed at them. Actually, if it's directed at them, then it's harassment:
http://arstechnica.com/business/2015/06/reddits-response-to-ceo-banning-harassing-subreddits-is-more-harassment/
BN June 15, 2015 11:07 AM: A bit long winded, but here's what I sent.

I wanted to send you a note regarding the public comments recently made by one of your senior employees, Irene Gallo. Generally I'm the type of person who doesn't even notice or care who has published a book I'm reading. At most, the only time I can think I've ever become aware of it is if I like the story, there is often a section in the front or back of the book that says something like... "For more books by this publisher, please see ...". In those cases, I don't really care who the publisher is per se, I just think to myself... "that was an enjoyable story, I suspect whoever published this one will likely have published a few others I might like, I should check some of them out."

The public comments made by Irene Gallo ("unrepentantly racist, sexist and homophobic", "neo-nazi", etc), made at the same exact venue where she was promoting Tor products in a professional capacity, have been more than enough for me to notice who Tor is, but for all the wrong reasons. Additionally, researching the matter a bit led me to more comments of the same type by other senior folks there, namely Patrick Nielsen Hayden & Moshe Feder. Now, instead of thinking, "that was a good book, I should read more by the folks who published that one", all I can think is, "the senior leadership at that company sure does sound like a dishonest, hateful, immature bunch, and if they hate me as much as they say they do and are willing to lie about me like that, then I should avoid them and the books they publish."

As such, I am requesting that Irene Gallo be dismissed from her position at Tor books.

Also, if it's not obvious after having gotten this far in the note, I am not some kind of bot. I am real live person. In light of the unfounded rumors about bots making their way around the internet, I'd respectfully request a response from you so I can know that my email has been received and read.
VFM bot #188 June 15, 2015 11:08 AM: I second both PVB (#17) and Jack Ward (#88). Fact is, war can be great fun, extremely exciting, and hugely entertaining (although admittedly it is a young man's sport).

This is war.

Identify. Name. Target.
Brad Andrews June 15, 2015 11:09 AM: Emails sent. I wanted to add "I am a Man!!!!" to the subject line, but I am not sure they would catch the reference that is clear in my head.
JartStar June 15, 2015 11:10 AM: #86. All too easy...
Brad Andrews June 15, 2015 11:11 AM: Several in the other thread noted that getting Gallo fired was not "fair" (or whatever), but they failed to note that she directly insulted customers. Brandon Eich merely gave money to a cause several years back that is now no longer in favor.

They should open their eyes and realize that not allowing people to express themselves will lead to people acting in other ways. The attempt by SJWs to close off rational discourse will backfire significantly to them, in this area and society in general.
Elijah Rhodes June 15, 2015 11:12 AM: I wonder what's going through Irene Gallo head right about now?
greenhell June 15, 2015 11:13 AM: Sent emails with picture of books. Did not CC you.
Mussorgsky112 June 15, 2015 11:14 AM: @Brad Andrews: Superman at Earth's End? At least, that's what I'm picturing, complete with the crazy hair and the punch.
Rabbi B June 15, 2015 11:15 AM: "I wonder what's going through Irene Gallo head right about now?"

Air.
Alexander, #10 June 15, 2015 11:16 AM: I wonder what's going through Irene Gallo head right about now?

Same thing that went through when she lit the fuse.

not a lot.
Alexander, #10 June 15, 2015 11:19 AM: Scalzi proves that he is still the brightest of the bunch. While other rabbits are doubling down, or even promising, he's bugged out. There will be no "I WILL CUT CONTRACT WITH TOR IF THEY SACK MY FRIENDS" coming from him.

Whatever else you'll say about him, one has to admire his finely attuned sense of survival.
Anonymous June 15, 2015 11:19 AM: Emails sent. All my books are packed in boxes in the basement or I would have sent a photo of them. There are hundreds. Thanks again for leading this Vox. I am sick of it.
Alexander, #10 June 15, 2015 11:21 AM: even promising to boycott Tor or cut contracts*
Jack Ward June 15, 2015 11:22 AM: @ 100 Alex:
Whatever else you'll say about him, one has to admire his finely attuned sense of survival.

This is a beautiful put down. Well Done;
Mudsack June 15, 2015 11:25 AM: Letters sent, oh Dark Lord!
Poli_Mis June 15, 2015 11:27 AM: Alex, he is Piggy from Lord of the Flies. I don't admire him at all.
Anonymous June 15, 2015 11:28 AM: Emails sent.
Steve June 15, 2015 11:29 AM: "I wonder what's going through Irene Gallo head right about now?"

Testosterone.
VD June 15, 2015 11:29 AM: Scalzi proves that he is still the brightest of the bunch. While other rabbits are doubling down, or even promising, he's bugged out.

I have to admit, I laughed. He's ever so grateful to PNH... but he's not about to BLEED for him or anything crazy like that.

Never trust a rabbit to have your back.
Aquila Aquilonis Fulminata June 15, 2015 11:35 AM: I was going to let my laziness get the better of me and not send the emails but then reading that comment by that fat smug raping bastard pissed me off.

My emails have been sent.
harry12 June 15, 2015 11:35 AM: .
E-mails and CCs have been sent oh Mighty One Whose Buttocks Sit Atop the Thunder-Winged Garuda Bird!
.
Leonidas June 15, 2015 11:36 AM: E-Mails sent.

@VD: Any running tally on how many you've been CC'd on?
Rabbi B June 15, 2015 11:38 AM: " . . . but then reading that comment by that fat smug raping bastard pissed me off."

Like my dear wife will occasionally remind me: "Don't let the bastards get you down!"
Anonymous June 15, 2015 11:38 AM: BTW,
Couldn't one be born a Neo Nazi or better yet a full blown one? Or, suddenly decide that he/she has been one their whole life and come out of the closet? WHY does she express such hatred, fear, and contempt for that which is different? It should be celebrated. Like a young butterfly emerging from the cocoon. How dare they use it as a term of slander! If she could only be MADE to understand somehow.....
MEC June 15, 2015 11:39 AM: VFM# 0374 - Completed
Anonymous June 15, 2015 11:41 AM: Historically Nazis were are very understanding and inclusive group, just like hers. Ironic, her comment.
Lulabelle (68) June 15, 2015 11:42 AM: Wheeler might take exception to that!
Anonymous June 15, 2015 11:42 AM: a..not are
Patrick June 15, 2015 11:42 AM: VFM (0042):
What a fun comment thread to read this morning. Some of you have put me to shame, I was pretty happy with what I wrote until I saw some of these other masterpieces. Impossible to think a bot wrote any of them.

here's my poor offering:
Dear Sir,

I know you have so many more important things, so I won't take up much of your time. I have long been dismayed that my outlook on life, once mainstream, has moved to the right of the Overton Window. So in public life I usually keep my head down and say little. It is numbing to have to constantly do this is what was once a free country, to walk around in a gulag of the mind.

People on my side of the debate have been fired for little things - donating to the wrong political campaign, wearing the wrong shirt on TV, making the wrong little light hearted joke...these are very recent and practical examples.

But now 2 of your Editors at TOR have gone on record as calling people like me Neo Nazis. This isn't a light hearted joke. This is beyond the pale. This is a deliberate, viscous falsehood. And it was made against your own readers and authors. It must be corrected.

Your company is shielding this vile creature. If un-remedied, I for one will deliberately avoid ever doing business with any TOR related offering, on principle. These people would put me in a work camp or worse if they could. They have no problem defaming and demonizing me. But you should have a problem with that.

I am not a bot, just another little guy. But I say, fire Irene Gallo, if nothing else than to stop people in the future from gleefully trying to destroy others for holding what are to them wrong opinions.

If you could, I'd like to get some acknowledgement that you at least received this, but if not, that's ok, I do realize you are very busy.

Thank you for your time, and best wishes,
William Hughes June 15, 2015 11:44 AM: Done
Anonymous June 15, 2015 11:46 AM: I've been part of the silent majority on these issues for too long. This seems like the time to get in the game.

My 3 letters are sent, and as soon as I get home from work today I'll prepare photos of all of my Tor books and estimates of their value. I'll also show my many bookcases to show the folks at Macmillan that I am precisely the sort of customer that they ought to be courting, not repelling.

Thanks for the leadership you guys. I'm prepared to see this fight through now.
Danby June 15, 2015 11:48 AM: Sent. All different, but all on this pattern:

Ms Brown,

I have decided to stop buying some of your products and I think you deserve to know why. I am a long-time SF fan, and voracious reader, going back to the 1960s. I have never in my life paid any attention to the publisher of a book, until the last few months. Now, I have stopped buying books if they bear the Tor imprint. That may extend into McMillan if this gets any further out of hand.

This is because it seems that the Tor senior editorial staff, including most particularly Patrick Nielsen Hayden, Moshe Feder and Irene Gallo hate me. They hate me because I am a conventional, traditional Catholic, with conventional, traditional Catholic views. To them, evidently that means I am a neo-Nazi, racist, misogynist bigot (ironic, that bigot bit).

I don't do business with people who hate me.

They also seem to hate my favorite Tor author, John C. Wright, for the exact same reason. Perhaps this explains why I can't seem to find his books in my local bookstores, even when they are new releases.

I'm not even sure what you could actually do to regain my business. I think from his online postings that Mr. Wright will be reluctant to submit any more work to Tor, and who could blame him?

BTW, word is going round the internet that you are being told that the flood of letters are from some "botnet" or some other stupid and obviously false excuse. I am sending this from my work account as a demonstration that this is simply yet another self-serving lie. Please be so good as to respond to this email, to acknowledge that it has been received and not dismissed as the output of an automated mail generator.

[Real Name]
Senior Unix Engineer
[Very Large Real Employer]
a June 15, 2015 11:49 AM: “Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have.” Power is derived from 2 main sources – money and people. “Have-Nots” must build power from flesh and blood.
“Never go outside the expertise of your people.” It results in confusion, fear and retreat. Feeling secure adds to the backbone of anyone.
“Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy.” Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty.
“Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.” If the rule is that every letter gets a reply, send 30,000 letters. You can kill them with this because no one can possibly obey all of their own rules.
“Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions.
“A good tactic is one your people enjoy.” They’ll keep doing it without urging and come back to do more. They’re doing their thing, and will even suggest better ones.
“A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.” Don’t become old news.
“Keep the pressure on. Never let up.” Keep trying new things to keep the opposition off balance. As the opposition masters one approach, hit them from the flank with something new.
“The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.” Imagination and ego can dream up many more consequences than any activist.
“If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and become a positive.” Violence from the other side can win the public to your side because the public sympathizes with the underdog.
“The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.” Never let the enemy score points because you’re caught without a solution to the problem.
“Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions.
trev006 June 15, 2015 11:52 AM: Emails sent. Hundreds of active former customers can also make a very formidable enemy: beyond a boycott, what else is there to do?
Anonymous June 15, 2015 11:53 AM: MAILS AWAY!

All four. BTW, is Cc now SOP?
BigGaySteve June 15, 2015 11:54 AM: Jourdan June 15, 2015 10:01 AM These businessmen are busy, I would suggest short and punchy in the emails.

Thank you for your concern, however if these are not crying women they will appreciate constructive criticism. If you want your sons to hear the lamentations of women tell them to aim their careers at Hospital Safety Officer, or Infection Control.

GRRM..He's decided to be the Fat Troll King of the SJWs, but he's cynical and aware enough to realize what that means: lie like a rug

No decision on his part, he was born that way. Even Nate agrees GRRM loves Doritos more than I do penis.
Lulabelle (68) June 15, 2015 11:55 AM: Yes, they could be trans....transnazi. Seems like any trans should be celebrated, after all, wouldn't this be a transition to their " true selves"? Where's the tolerance? Where's the kudos?
wrangler June 15, 2015 11:56 AM: sent my 3.
Jack Amok June 15, 2015 12:04 PM: VFM#116 reporting in. Mails sent, morning West Coast time. I believe that's what's called ripple fire?

Alexander, good analysis of how the pro-Gallo forces are simply feeding the fire. It's about time the SJWs started seeing their institutions trampled into the mud for a change. They've been picking our institutions as the battlegrounds - time to fight on their turf instead.
Scintan June 15, 2015 12:04 PM: Do to the obviously unprofessional post of Ms. Gallo and the insufficient response by her company, I sent out the three emails, specifically tailored to each individual. I did not CC them, so you may wish to add me to your count total.
Alexander June 15, 2015 12:05 PM: Mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be Hospital Safety Officers.
Don't let 'em pick jobs where they must give a fuck,
Let 'em be doctors and lawyers and such.
Mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be Hospital Safety Officers.
Cause they'll never get home listnin' to some old crone,
Demanding treatment with kid gloves
Jack Amok June 15, 2015 12:06 PM: (I think it's funny that Capcha says "Please prove you're not a robot." That's the entire point of this matter!)

Damned brilliant of Vox, wasn't it, to put that "prove you're not a bot" thing in months ago. He knew the day would come when we would need to be good at proving we're not bots...
Anonymous June 15, 2015 12:12 PM: Off-topic: over the weekend I read Ernie Cline's "Ready Player One." It was good, not great. I know, I'm late because the thing came out 3 yrs ago.

One reviewer said that Cline had a "geekier than thou" attitude. I agree with that assessment. He kept including 70s, 80s, and 90s references that didn't have much to do with the plot. RPO was also optioned; pop culture references can be bad in films so the movie might be awful if this isn't done well.

Sadly, the book has a HUGE amount of SJW tendencies. The enemy is an EVIL corporation run by a white guy. The hero is a gamma who is obsessed with a geek girl. One of the other lead characters is revealed to be a black lesbian who was tossed out by her family circa 2040 for being homosexual.

The author also completely kisses the shemale-asses of Wil Wheaton, Cory Doctorow, and John Scalzi. I f-ing can't stand Wil Wheaton. I loved Doctorow's first book (Down & Out in the Magic Kingdom) but everything he wrote after that SUCKED. I can honestly say that his "Makers" was one of the WORST sci-fi books I ever read. And Scalzi ... 'nuff said.

I'm bringing this up because Cline is going to appear where I live to promote his new book. I'm on the fence about going. A sample from the book was released and I'll skim it and then decide. If I see these SJW tendencies then I'm skipping. I'll save my time and money for something else (his new book wasn't published by Tor).
P.T. Barnumium June 15, 2015 12:15 PM: Emails sent. I did not CC, what can I say I have a contrarian nature. I will pass on any response (if ever received)
2Bfree June 15, 2015 12:15 PM: My letter(s) didn't quite follow the program, but I hope serve the purpose. I included my actual phone number so they could call me if they doubt I'm real. Here's an example of what I wrote:
________________

Re: Your request that I not purchase Tor products

Dear Mr. Weber,

I’ve been an avid reader of science fiction and fantasy for well over 40 years. Over the past 15 years my new book purchases have slowed a little, and I’ve been forced to go back and re-read what is now considered “classic” science fiction and fantasy. The reason is most of what passes for science fiction today has no big ideas, doesn’t challenge any conventional wisdom, and not only lacks depth but prose and character development as well. My weekly new book habit has been greatly reduced as the quality of good works from Tor has diminished. Except for the occasional Orson Scott Card, John Wright, Jim Butcher, or JK Rowling work, most of what you publish is a pale shadow of what once made science fiction and fantasy great.

Now Irene Gallo is directly calling me vile names including; racist, sexist, and homophobic neo-Nazis. Over the decades I’ve spent tens of thousands of dollars with Tor. From the Harry Potter books I read to my children, to popcorn novels in the Star Trek and Star Wars genre, it’s clear I’m going to miss some good reading. But Tor needs me, more than I need Tor. There are many new works by other publishers that I can and will enjoy. As long as Tor, is willing to defend and retain editors like Irene Gallo who publically and clearly denigrate me as a reader, it is obvious that Tor has made it clear they do not want my business.

The actions of Tor speak and send a loud and clear message, your subsidiary Tor doesn’t want my business. I will honor that request, not only will I not purchase another Tor product, until and unless Tor fires or accepts the resignation of Ms. Gallo. I will make sure nobody I know does so either, and they know why.

Regards
Tom Rhodes
feel free to call me if you want to verify I’m a real person. ###-###-####
Bz June 15, 2015 12:18 PM: Messages sent. Well, that felt good.
Danby June 15, 2015 12:20 PM: I am not a bot! I am not a number! I am a Free Man!
uh... hold on a minute.... yes, Malwyn... No Mistress... no! No! NO!
(tortured screams)
I am Vile faceless Minion #0301. (sob)
maniacprovost June 15, 2015 12:22 PM: Subject: Attack of the Nazi-bots... Sounds like a plot pitch

Dear Sir, [ed note - andrew @ mcmillan]

I buy a few Tor books each year (just received a hardcover I pre-ordered) and it has never bothered me that the editors are liberal goofballs, or that they publish a lot of steampunk romance or whatever the current trend is.

I was also never bothered by the fact that they consider me to be a neo-nazi, or whatever the currently trending insult is for "people who disagree with you." Why? Because Tor is a business, I'm a consumer, and I don't care about the personal politics of the employees. I just want scifi, fantasy, alternate history and the occasional classic reprint.

What aggravates me is that if I were to go online, with my professional title, and insult my customers, I would probably lose my job. In fact, if I were to eat at Chik-fil-a without a hat and sunglasses, people like Irene Gallo would try to get me fired for my taste in sandwiches.

The second thing that bothers me, which I never realized was malice until now, is that the authors that I like get no promotion and little product placement, while poorly written junk gets mass produced and fills up Borders like a swimming pool. Or did Borders go bankrupt because no one wanted that stuff anymore? I don't remember. It's entirely likely, in hindsight, that half the great science fiction books of the 21st century are not getting written because a couple of people at Tor don't like the authors' politics.

Anyway, I'd like to close with a constructive suggestion. Amazon and the whole indie publishing and e-book thing is hurting Tor's margins, but it's also an opportunity. I know you have taken advantage of the huge margins on ebooks, but you can also reduce costs by publishing half as much stuff, with twice the quality. Granted, you will lose a little revenue since people are leery of well-crafted literature, but I think overall your ROE will increase.

Regards,
maniacprovost June 15, 2015 12:25 PM: Subj: I'm not sure if I'm a bot, but I am self-aware.

Dear Mr. Doherty,

Although I am a genuinely irate genuine Tor customer, I don't care if you fire this Irene Gallo lady. I don't know her. I know if I went online and insulted my customers, with my employer's name attached to it, I would be out of work, but that's my industry.

No, all I want is for Tor to publish great science fiction, and fantasy and alternate history if you can find any that's decent. But is that possible when your employees are apparently picking books based on their personal politics? Take John C. Wright, who is the Tor author most directly insulted by Ms. Gallo. His books are not for everyone and they'll never be as popular as the latest vampire romance or Halo tie-in... but he can sell to the hardcore sci-fi market. His number could be as good as Card's (that other religious extremist you publish). How many other great books am I missing out on because the authors are "neo-nazis?"

Regards,
[VFM #0272, going off message, chaffing the skies]
tweell June 15, 2015 12:25 PM: Emails away. I saw Peter Grant's post first, so cc'd him.
harry12 June 15, 2015 12:29 PM: BigGaySteve June 15, 2015 11:54 AM

snip

GRRM..He's decided to be the Fat Troll King of the SJWs, but he's cynical and aware enough to realize what that means: lie like a rug

No decision on his part, he was born that way. Even Nate agrees GRRM loves Doritos more than I do penis.

Thread winner !!
.
Donn #0114 June 15, 2015 12:30 PM: Emails sent and like most I missed the cc part.....
Case June 15, 2015 12:34 PM: As I see it, the best option for Tor is to close the doors and get rid of everybody. Reopen under a new name and hire back the people who won't cause the problems that Tor is experiencing now.

Tor is obviously a very damaged brand.
SarahsDaughter June 15, 2015 12:34 PM: @VD: Any running tally on how many you've been CC'd on?

Or forwards, or confessions here that we minions can only handle a limited number of instructions at one time. Relegate me to the kitchen - I understand.
Elocutioner0226 June 15, 2015 12:35 PM: "Discipline is key." Remember that, #0301. (It's going to be hard not to with it etched into your skin like that...)

Sometimes your place in life is to serve as a warning to others.
Joshua Dyal June 15, 2015 12:38 PM: @2Bfree Harry Potter is published by Scholastic, not Tor. At least in the US. Bloomsbury in the US and Canada. I don't think Tor has any relation whatsoever to Harry Potter.
maniacprovost June 15, 2015 12:39 PM: Subj: Nazi-bots

Dear Ms. Brown,

My condolences on the deluge of emails you must have received from angry nerds. It's just that first we were called neo-nazis who write (or in my case) enjoy bad, reprehensible works published by Tor. Then we were told that we did not exist, and we weren't really upset about the way we and our favorite authors are being treated by certain editorial fiefdoms.

So, I'm just letting you know that we are real people, 99% of us are real Tor customers, and we are not the same type of angry nerds who complain about Marvel movies for hours on end. And furthermore, while Irene Gallo may just be an idiot who goes with the crowd, Moshe Feder's comments were shocking because he clearly thinks he has the support of the Tor organization to flout your official policy and insult customers in a premeditated fashion.

Regards,
maniacprovost June 15, 2015 12:40 PM: Relegate me to the kitchen - I understand.

An evil legion slithers on its stomach.
Aeoli Pera June 15, 2015 12:46 PM: Sent and forgot to CC. So much for following simple instructions.

I am at least 3/4 human, though I do identify as a robot on census forms.
Thomas #153 June 15, 2015 12:48 PM: V.F.M. 0153 Has sent all emails as requested.
Nebo 0193 June 15, 2015 12:49 PM: 3 sent
Salt June 15, 2015 12:49 PM: My email to -

Greetings, Mr. Doherty,

The subject of this email is correct. I am not a bot. Feel free to call me to confirm -

XXXXX XXXXXX
XXXXXXX
XXXXXXXX (xxx-xxx-xxxx)

I may be a bit libertarian, but I'm not a neo-Nazi. Neither am I homophobic, transphobic, misogynist, or any -obic / -ist that people the likes of
Patrick Nielsen Hayden, Moshe Feder, and Irene Gallo wish to claim about me, me being one of "them" they hate so much. Ms. Gallo is the last straw, being
indicative of House unclean.

Though Ms. Gallo claims her opinions are her own, and well they are... her stated opinions include authors YOU PUBLISH. Authors who's work is directly
translated to your bottom line. If TOR / Macmillan were a publicly traded entity, I'd be going for a resolution for your removal at the next shareholders
meeting.

Mr. John C. Wrights posts that -

"I have received more messages, publicly and privately, from fans who enjoy and buy my works but who, deeply offended at at least four, perhaps more, of the ranking officers of my publisher, have told me they can no longer buy my works."

Mr. Wright, a TOR author, has been nominated for how many HUGOs? And not one word of congratulations, instead he's many -obics and -ists, an author unworthy. If I had such a relationship, with
a business partner in such circumstance, that relationship would end.

Clean house, Mr. Doherty, or in time the accumulation of filth shall make it uninhabitable.

I'd appreciate some acknowledgment that you have read what I have to say.

This is the beginning of a new week. Make use of it.

[signed]
Giuseppe June 15, 2015 12:53 PM: Now I feel dirty. Like an activist of some sort.

You weak stomached lilly.
I sincerely wish instead od emails we could do more!
Personally I would be happy to throw these people personally and individually onto a godforsaken rock of an island off the north of Scotland.
redlegben June 15, 2015 12:54 PM: VFM #380. Shots fired.
#0228 June 15, 2015 1:05 PM: I hate Sci-Fi. Don't think I own a single Tor book, and will probably never be a customer. I did not tell them that.

But I politely informed all three parties that I do not appreciate being called a racist, a misogynist, nor homophobic, and that kind of language suggests the current employees hate many of the current customers and will surely make be less likely to ever be a customer.
Aeoli Pera June 15, 2015 1:09 PM: No decision on his part, he was born that way. Even Nate agrees GRRM loves Doritos more than I do penis.

You keep saying that, but have you ever seen a penis? They are really gross.

Most respectfully,
AP
Carl Hommel June 15, 2015 1:12 PM: Sent with two photos: one shelf of Erickson/Esslemont trades, another of Glen Cook pbs.

Dear Mr. Doherty,

I've been following the whole Sad Puppies / Rabid Puppies thing since February, and reading Vox Day's web site since March. I joined Worldcon as a sustaining member in May the nominations because of the backlash and I'm reading the nominees. I feel some are Hugo-worthy, and some are not, and my ballot will reflect my lifetime of reading everything from hard sf to high fantasy.

I have been reading science fiction since 1967, when I discovered my parents' collection of 1950s Amazing, Astounding, Galaxy, IF, Venture, F&SF, and other prozines in the basement. I started collecting my own magazines and books in 1972, when I got my first job delivering the Boston Globe. Ace, Avon, Del Rey, Bantam, DAW, and since 1980 -- Tor. Every time your publishing house, Tor Books, came out with something new from authors such as Michael Jordan, Glen Cook, Orson Scott Card, Steven Erickson, Elizabeth Willey, Kevin J. Anderson, John Scalzi, or Jack Chalker -- I'd buy it.

But now?

I'm not pleased at Irene Gallo's facebook post implying that authors I like reading, and by extension me for liking them, are neo-nazis. I'm outraged that Moshe Felder "doubled down" and repeated that slur, even after your public apology. And if Patrick Nielsen Hayden is dismissing my opinions byreporting to you and others within your corporation that me and those like me are "bots" -- then that's just wrong.

As a skinny bookish child, I learned that namecalling hurts. Calling someone, calling a large class of SF readers, racists or neo-nazis is not acceptable. Maybe Ms. Gallo's post can be viewed as a momentary outburst, and her public chastisement via your post and her apology is sufficient. But as a manager, I personally would not tolerate Mr. Felder's insubordination. And to have this happening in Mr. Hayden's department is something to seriously review.

As further proof that I am not a bot, below are two screenshots from my collection of over 100yds of SF. (I measured them when I moved last year.) If possible, I would appreciate a reply (even a form letter) to confirm that my email (and message) has been received and that you understand that I am my own person.
Cataline Sergius June 15, 2015 1:13 PM: Rounds are downrange.

No clue if I hit the target or berm.

Sorry it came to this. I loved the late 70s ACE books. Particularity the Destines anthologies. Of course back then Jim Baen was his shoulder on shoulder and right hand man.

How the hell did Tom Doherty go from Jim Baen to PNH?
HardReturn¶ June 15, 2015 1:17 PM: 3 sent earlier this morning

VFM #0030
Joshua Dyal June 15, 2015 1:20 PM: Even Nate agrees GRRM loves Doritos more than I do penis.

Penis is often called cock. Gallo is the Spanish word for cock.

You heard it here first, folks! BigGaySteve is on Irene Gallo's side! And assuming that Irene Gallo is a woman, he's not even gay! Wake up, sheeple!
2Bfree June 15, 2015 1:26 PM: "@2Bfree Harry Potter is published by Scholastic, not Tor. At least in the US. Bloomsbury in the US and Canada. I don't think Tor has any relation whatsoever to Harry Potter."

I think they now have her, based on this at Tor.com
Rabbi B June 15, 2015 1:29 PM: "You heard it here first, folks! BigGaySteve is on Irene Gallo's side!"

But . . .but . . . I also heard that BGS is an unrepentant homophobe . . . it's all just so damn confusing.
Steve June 15, 2015 1:29 PM: Vox, will there be campaign medals on the successful conclusion of this war?

I'm thinking:

* Mentioned in Evil Despatches (badge is a severed ear rendered in bronze, which can be affixed to the ribbon of a campaign medal)

* Evil Empire Medal (a tasteful silver decoration of a globe in the grip of a spiked gauntlet)

* Conspicuous Cruelty Cross (a rabbit being crucified on a silver cross)

* Distinguished Minion Order (a gold-edged, white enamelled star surmounted by a stylised slenderman lovingly strangling a SJW)

* Lord Voxemort Cross (the ultimate award for nefariousness in the service of the Evil Legion of Evil. Rendered in depleted uranium, and adorned with conflict diamonds, the LVC depicts a grinning skull with two bony fingers flipping off the viewer, and bears the motto "We Don't Care")
Beau June 15, 2015 1:30 PM: Shots, over.
Rabbi B June 15, 2015 1:31 PM: "Vox, will there be campaign medals on the successful conclusion of this war?"

At least more badges ... I am sure Malwyn will be more than happy to oblige.
VFM bot #188 June 15, 2015 1:36 PM: Yeah, each one of 'em branded into our racist, misogynistic, homophobic asses by Malwyn!

No thank you!
Alexander, #10 June 15, 2015 1:40 PM: I signed up for the Joo gold, the war brides, and the slaves of color that I am reliably informed we were going to plunder once we established the ciswhitemale hegemony over the fandom. I'm pretty sure there's at least one 'story' that predicts a future to that effect should the puppies win a Hugo.

Y'all can keep yer stinkin' 'medals'.
VFM bot #188 June 15, 2015 1:41 PM: Everybody back off! Alexander's not bluffing!
Alexander, #10 June 15, 2015 1:43 PM: In the spirit of If you were upside down, my love, I hope to see a story where - get this - puppy victories destroy both diversity and lead to irreversible climate change (to show how evil they are).

This leads to either perpetual cloud cover in an arctic waste or no rainfall in an arid one - doesn't matter which for the sake of the punchline. And there's only white people.

The book would be called "A world without Rainbows." Get it?! So Deep. Much Impress. Wow just wow.
VD June 15, 2015 1:52 PM: Vox, will there be campaign medals on the successful conclusion of this war?

Commemorative brandings, anyway. Stop whining, you know you love it.
pdwalker June 15, 2015 1:54 PM: You realize that we all are contributing to the mailbombing of VD and we're getting away with it!

BAHAHAAhahahahahahHAHahahahahah *hack cough wheeze*
Alexander June 15, 2015 1:54 PM: Sometimes, I wonder where it all went wrong.

The history book tells of a time before, when there were many books, all of them lies designed to mock and degrade the great heroes of the past: Adolph the Pure, Ronald the Speaker, The Noble House of Bush... all slandered by what we "know" today to have been the Great Conspiracy. We learn it at school - along with how children were once conned into believing giant reptiles lived more than 10,000 years ago and women were people too...

I do not question this of course... but sometimes, as I look at the fossilized remains of the great iron behemoths - Trucks, they were called in the age of oil - and squint up at an unrelenting sun, harsh and blinding, even through the thick glass of the biodome... I can't help but wonder if humanity being reduced to tiny pockets in a world even the book says once was lush, isn't a sign that somewhere we lost our way...
Steve June 15, 2015 1:59 PM: Rabbi B, VFM bot # 188, Dread Lord Vox -

I'm willing to risk a branding to meet the Lady Malwyn.

Ding dong!
Ostar June 15, 2015 2:01 PM: Three done, CC'ed to Vox. First time I've ever been pissed off enough to complain to a publisher.
VD June 15, 2015 2:02 PM: You realize that we all are contributing to the mailbombing of VD and we're getting away with it!

I was just telling Spacebunny that I am totally regretting this CC thing. We're well over 750 now.
Steve June 15, 2015 2:09 PM: Alexander, #10 - Joo gold? Yes please. Also, some of those delicious bagels would be nice.

War brides? No thank you. I barely get a moment's peace as it is.

Slaves of colour? I was hoping for android servants, like that army of bots I've been hearing about. The problem with human slaves is that they might be from some weird culture that doesn't mesh well with civilisation.

Like the Welsh.

No siree, I'll take my promised arse branding from Malwyn instead.
Dexter June 15, 2015 2:10 PM: Even Nate agrees GRRM loves Doritos more than I do penis.

Dude, I was eating lunch when I read that, and the visions it provoked did NOT improve my appetite...

I was just telling Spacebunny that I am totally regretting this CC thing. We're well over 750 now.

Better create a thrasher gmail account for the next campaign. =)
AbuDhabi June 15, 2015 2:15 PM: Giuseppe: That is precisely the problem. If sending an email equates to doing something, that's not very far from the land of "reblog this if you care".
Doom June 15, 2015 2:22 PM: 160. Steve,

Oh... boy. I like the last one! A little on the relaxed side, too. I hate to toot horns too loudly, you know.

* Lord Voxemort Cross (the ultimate award for nefariousness in the service of the Evil Legion of Evil. Rendered in depleted uranium, and adorned with conflict diamonds, the LVC depicts a grinning skull with two bony fingers flipping off the viewer, and bears the motto "We Don't Care")
AXCrom June 15, 2015 2:25 PM: Dread Ilk reporting in, sir. Three emails sent, cc'd you per request.
Viidad June 15, 2015 2:38 PM: Just sent my three. Forgot to cc.
Leonidas June 15, 2015 2:43 PM: I was just telling Spacebunny that I am totally regretting this CC thing. We're well over 750 now.

Even dividing by three (assuming that people are CC'ing you on all three e-mails) that's quite a lot for one morning and one campaign. But I'd wager it's considerably better than that. Most people probably just wrote one e-mail and CC'd it to all three parties, rather than sending three separate e-mails like I did.

But the important note: most letter/e-mail campaigns actually have quite a bit fewer than that - even the successful ones.

Also, FIWIW, no acknowledgement of receipt yet.
ticticboom June 15, 2015 2:46 PM: Here's my contribution:

First off, I would like to state that I am, in fact, a human being, as apparently some of your employees claim I do not exist. Sadly, that is one of the less offensive things Tor employees have said about me.

Not only am I a human being, I should be your ideal customer. I am a voracious reader, especially of Sci-fi, and actually pre-order hardcovers once I'm a fan of an author, although these days I've gone over to Kindle. Since I live in a cramped Manhattan studio, it's been a Godsend. My place is a fire hazard.

That said, even before things escalated over the last few years, I noticed I'd been buying fewer and fewer Tor books, eventually only those by authors I considered reliably entertaining. If I picked a Tor book by a new author off the shelf in Barnes and Noble, within a few pages I put it back. At this point, Drake, Weber, and Wright are about all I still read from Tor, or were until I found out that I am an unperson as far as Tor is concerned.

By now, you are no doubt aware of the outrage surrounding Irene Gallo. This probably came as a surprise to you. However, if you are aware of the actions of other Tor employees such as the Neilsen-Haydens and Moshe Feder, it was inevitable that there would be a straw that would break the camel's back. For many, it was being libeled as racist, sexist, homophobic neo-nazis, especially when that was also directed at Tor authors like Kevin J Anderson.

Let me reiterate, this was not an isolated incident. You would not be seeing this groundswell if it hadn't been preceeded by a decade of constant attacks against anyone to the right of Mao. Rightly or wrongly, when people hear 'Tor' they don't think Tom Doherty, they think Patrick Neilsen-Hayden and his significant other.

They also do not think of good editing, active marketing, author support, or fair contracts. I remember one prominent case where Girl Genius simply wanted their rights back and offered to buy the print run entirely. I would suggest you look into how that was handled. You might find it enlightening.

http://girlgeniusadventures.com/2014/01/29/a-tale-of-two-tors-be-warned-im-annoyed/

So, over the years Tor's reputation has declined on practical grounds. On top of that, high profile people associated with Tor have worked very hard to alienate well over half of your customer base. The Neilsen-Haydens fondness for 'disemvoweling' (removing vowels so what is left is gibberish) comments they disagree with displays a contempt for the written word that is unbecoming in an editor, on top of the sheer disdain for the interlocutor.

After ten years of this, I and many others have come to the unavoidable conclusion that the corporate culture at Tor despises us. That begs the question, why should I give money or word of mouth advertising to a company that me for an accident of birth and my political affiliation?

And just in case you still don't believe I am a human being, or that I don't buy Tor books to begin with, please see the attatched pictures. If necessary, I can bring those books to your Manhattan offices, and you can have them back. For some reason, I find it harder to enjoy a product when its maker says I have no right to exist.

If, on the other hand, you put your house in order, and once again have employees who value your customers and authors, I look forward to giving you money. I had been eager to read the latest Safehold novel, although I was hoping it was better edited than the last. Weber is a great author, but needs to be reined in, or he neglects the main arc of the story. His current editor has proved insufficient to the task.

Also, I would appreciate a reply to this e-mail, do I can be certain you are aware that I am not some kind of bot. As I said, I can show up at your NY office if you do not believe me.

Sincerely,
Forrest Bishop VFM #0167 June 15, 2015 2:50 PM: 90. Brad Andrews
" Emails sent. I wanted to add "I am a Man!!!!" to the subject line, but I am not sure they would catch the reference that is clear in my head."

Keep your filthy lies off of me, you damn dirty SJW.
Groot June 15, 2015 2:54 PM: I find GRRM's comments above to be confusing and off-topic. What does any of that have anything at all to do with rape?

Emails sent.

And 21. Remo: Gallo to the gallows! Thumbs up.
ScuzzaMan June 15, 2015 3:02 PM: Damn! forgot the CC, too. Forwarded now.

Subject: I am assuredly real

Dear ....

I have heard that, in response to recent emails received about the ongoing public discontent caused by Ms Gallos' intemperate insults to your readers and authors, there has arisen some doubt as to the ratio of real people offended by these remarks as compared to "bots" being used to inflate the apparent numbers of real people.

Like Tor, like Ms Gallo, I do not speak for anyone else. However, I assure you I am a real person, with a real life, a real mind of my own, and a very real abiding sense of insult and disappointment that Tor has seen fit to disregard manifestly untrue and thoroughly unprofessional insults to some of science fiction and fantasy's most avid fans. I also do not think that the number of people emailing to express their sense of outrage should affect in any way Tor's responsibility nor commitment to doing the right thing.

Please feel free to call me on either of the numbers listed below, should you be inclined to doubt my existence I will be happy to demonstrate it for you.

Make no mistake, my existence as a real person and reader of science fiction and fantasy is as real as the money I will no longer spend with publishers who think it is acceptable for their employees to insult thousands of people they dont even know, simply because those people exercise their legitimate right to a contrary opinion.

I very much hope that Tor books will do the right thing, do it openly, and do it soon.

My kindest regards to you,

SM
(sent from my real account)
PaulR June 15, 2015 3:30 PM: I've sent the five emails...
*Three emails sir>*
...THREE emails...
VFM bot #188 June 15, 2015 3:41 PM: [H]ave you ever seen a penis? They are really gross.

Ain't that the truth!

Still, though...chicks really dig 'em, you know? I could never figure it out. It's like, what's up with that, you know?
bob k. mando June 15, 2015 3:45 PM: 123. BigGaySteve June 15, 2015 11:54 AM
Even Nate agrees GRRM loves Doritos more than I do penis.

weird. i thought you'd be a pitcher, not a catcher.

oh well. if the dude's got to love him some cawk, i guess the dude will abide.

141. SarahsDaughter June 15, 2015 12:34 PM
Relegate me to the kitchen - I understand.

hot damn, sammiches!

153. Aeoli Pera June 15, 2015 1:09 PM
You keep saying that, but have you ever seen a penis? They are really gross.

are you suggesting BGS is the new Taylor alt?

regardless, there's a reason they call it "bumping uglies".

154. Carl Hommel June 15, 2015 1:12 PM
below are two screenshots from my collection of over 100yds of SF.

*bugeyes*

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3ppzv3/

regardless, your surname is clearly Deutscher in origin ... which makes you a neo-Nazi mailing bot.

the internet is doomed.

172. VD June 15, 2015 2:02 PM
I was just telling Spacebunny that I am totally regretting this CC thing. We're well over 750 now.

yeah, well, you were the one who demanded that we NOT cc the Tor / Mac people but that we DO cc you. you could have cut that count by probably at least half if you had allowed us to groupmail these.

i figured you were just showing us your masochist side ...
Joshua Dyal June 15, 2015 4:06 PM: I presume nobody else has gotten a response from Tor yet either?
Valtandor Nought June 15, 2015 4:10 PM: Dear Mr Doherty,

I am a real person, writing to express my dismay at some recent statements and decisions of certain senior Tor employees.

I am neither a Sad Puppy nor a Rabid Puppy. However, I share with these two groups a few beliefs, such as that the quality of the story is more important than the orthodoxy of its sermon, and that in the case of a popular award such as the Hugos, the popularity of a work among the nominators and voters should be a more important criterion than the ancestry, sex, sexual proclivities or politics of its author.

In the world of speculative fiction, it is my opinion that these positions should be uncontroversial. Yet the Creative Director at Tor Books, Ms Irene Gallo, has gone on record as saying that the Sad and Rabid Puppies, and (by logical extension) anyone who holds such views (since the only difference I can tell is that I haven't actually participated in the Hugo nomination process), is “extreme right-wing to neo-Nazi”, not to mention “unrepentantly racist, misogynist, and homophobic,” and that the works favoured by the Puppies (including, I understand, some that are published by Tor) are “bad to reprehensible.”

These statements are not the equivalent of kindergarteners calling each other “a poo-head”. They have the potential to be deeply damaging to a person’s reputation and career. Moreover, at least in the case of the allegation of neo-Nazism, it is not a mere opinion. Unless Ms Gallo can provide evidence that the individuals concerned are or have been members in good standing of the National Front or some similar organisation, she should not merely express regret that feelings were hurt, but should retract her statement and apologise for lying.

I am of course aware that her statements were made in a personal capacity, and that neither Tor nor Macmillan is responsible for seeing to it that she revises her personal opinions and beliefs, however ill-founded they may be. I am also aware that you have issued a public statement saying that her opinions are not those of Tor. You are to be commended for so quickly clarifying your company’s position. However, the fact remains that Ms Gallo is willing to publicly state that she considers some of Tor's catalogue unworthy of publication, and other senior staff, such as Mr Moshe Feder, publicly support her. Their personal opinions, even if not officially adopted or endorsed by Tor’s board of directors, are of course going to be influential in Tor’s day to day actions.

How could I, as a buyer of sci-fi and fantasy literature, have any confidence in the present climate that Tor will publish works to my liking? Moreover, how could I not think that Tor would count my interest in a work as a black mark, however small, against its author? If I were an aspiring sci-fi or fantasy author, how could I have any confidence that Tor would promote my work to the best of its ability, if it came out that some of my readers were disapproved of or disliked by the senior editorial staff?

I trust that you will consider this message and the many others that you have received, and will take such action as you think best to rehabilitate Tor in the eyes of authors and book buyers. I would also appreciate a response indicating that you have received this message.

Thank you for your time.

Yours sincerely,
[Name]

PS. I understand that one of the claims made about this message and others like it is that they are generated by bots. While a simple comparison of the different messages would surely reveal that they are individually composed by a range of different writers, I am willing to supply further proof in this case. You may note that this email is sent from my personal email address. A thing called a WHOIS lookup on this domain will reveal not only my full name, but my address and contact telephone number. I include a link to the results of the lookup ([link]) for your convenience, and trust that this provides sufficient proof that this email was, in fact, written and sent by a human being.
Dexter June 15, 2015 4:14 PM: Personally I hope they put Gallo on "answer the emails that hate you" detail.

"You made the mess, toots, you clean it up."
Groot June 15, 2015 4:23 PM: I find GRRM's comments above to be confusing and off-topic. What does any of that have anything at all to do with rape?

Emails sent.

And 21. Remo: Gallo to the gallows! Thumbs up.
Achillea June 15, 2015 4:27 PM: Even dividing by three (assuming that people are CC'ing you on all three e-mails) that's quite a lot for one morning and one campaign.

I sent the three emails separately, but only cc:d the Dread Lord on the first. No reply/confirmation so far.
Russell (106) June 15, 2015 4:45 PM: @Joshua Dyal I presume nobody else has gotten a response from Tor yet either?

Nothing. I've sent eight emails to date, four today, to different folk over at Tor and haven't received so much as a "Thank you for your interest in Tor" non-response.

I've decided against holding my breath waiting for a response. Of course, as a VFM bot, I don't breathe, but you get the idea.
BigFire June 15, 2015 5:05 PM: Here's my sample, can't be longer as I'm still trying to get over this fever.

Subject: Notification of Boycott

Good Day:

My name is X. I'm a Chinese immigrant from Taiwan. Reading Science Fiction and Fantasy novel got me through my English learning curve and I continued to read them to this day. It will be with great sadness that I will not be buying any more TOR books from Brandon Sanderson, John C. Wright, David Weber and Dan Wells after being slandered as Neo Nazi. I've read Ms. Gallo's non-apology and Mr. Doherty's distinction between her facebook posting and official company communication. This is not acceptable. Until Ms. Gallo is no longer employed I will ceased to purchase any TOR book. I want an official apology of the many slanders lobbed at me and I want them in writing.

Least the mail filter flag this email as automatically generated, I'm not a robot.

Lets see if Yahoo mail can do read receipt?
ChicagoRefugee June 15, 2015 5:45 PM: All right, it's done. Late but in earnest. In my defense, we're all at sixes and sevens here (anyone got the derivation of that particular phrase) because this is the week my aged in-laws move into their flat in our newly purchased 2-flat.

Prayers would be appreciated.
W.LindsayWheeler June 15, 2015 5:48 PM: Vox, on the CC thing. For future reference, you should create a seperate email account for a CC to occur so that it doesn't jam up your own email.
FriarBob June 15, 2015 6:08 PM: So what if you're actually NOT a Tor customer? Because I'm not. I'm a Weber customer who's bought 8 (known) books from them solely because they were Weber's. My issues with them were their idiotic DRM policies (thankfully since recanted) and their idiotic refusal to recognize the genius of their former editor and follow Baen's lead in the eARC business.

I'm still quite annoyed that the idiots you are mad at can "get away" with such utter idiocy for as long as they have. But one way or another, it WILL end. They've piled up way too deep a debt. If this alone doesn't quite do the trick, they'll be emboldened to triple-down on the stupidity and the next (or the next) something else will do it. And while it could be merely "eventually" I'm strongly betting on "quite soon".

But even if I'm wrong about that, does a non-customer have a right to complain about somebody who hasn't REALLY affected them personally (yet)?

Honest question, really. I'm really just curious how y'all see it.
VD June 15, 2015 6:24 PM: I presume nobody else has gotten a response from Tor yet either?

I doubt there will be any responses until Macmillan decides what they are going to do. They need time to investigate and process the information they are receiving and uncovering. That's why we are not calling for a boycott of Tor Books yet.

If they were blowing it off, they would have a canned response they would be sending out about how important your views are to them etc.
VD June 15, 2015 6:25 PM: So what if you're actually NOT a Tor customer? Because I'm not. I'm a Weber customer who's bought 8 (known) books from them solely because they were Weber's

You are a Tor customer. Your motivations are irrelevant. You bought their books, you are a customer.
Longstreet June 15, 2015 6:52 PM: I was just telling Spacebunny that I am totally regretting this CC thing. We're well over 750 now.
Good, now I'm not feeling so bad about forgetting to CC. Add my 3 to the total.
Lanrick June 15, 2015 7:34 PM: Interesting stats here, although not sure how accurate they are. 96% of dissatisfied customers do not complain. Although 91% of those silent ones simply leave and do not come back. http://returnonbehavior.com/2010/10/50-facts-about-customer-experience-for-2011/

1 – 200 of 212 Newer› Newest»

Rod Walker	Nick Cole
Martin van Creveld	Jonathan Moeller
John C. Wright	Rolf Nelson
Mike Cernovich	David the Good
David VanDyke	B.V. Larson
Jerry Pournelle	Cheah Kai Wai
Peter Grant	Sarah Salviander
Ivan Throne	Steve Keen
Tara McCarthy	LawDog
C.R. Hallpike	Jon Del Arroz

Vox Popoli

CONTACT

VOXOLOGY

Voxiversity

PRINT & AUDIO EDITIONS

CRYPTOFASHION

CASTALIA BOOKLISTS

Topics

Interviews

Interviews of Me

SITES OF INTEREST

Voxonomica

Monday, June 15, 2015

We Are Real People

212 Comments:

Post a Comment

DAY TRIPS

BOOKS AND COMICS

BOOK OF THE WEEK

CASTALIA AUTHORS

NON-FICTION DOWNLOADS

DOGGEREL

BOOK LIST 2019

ATHEIST DEMOTIVATORS

Dread Ilk sites