Vox Popoli: The only serious candidate

The billionaire politician fired his stiffest broadsides in Texas – the ultimate American border state – at illegal immigrants, the 'sanctuary cities' that give them safe haven from deportation, and the pundits who have castigated him for declaring war on them all.

'We are a dumping ground for the rest of the world,' he complained. 'You people are suffering,' Trump said. 'I'm in New York, but they're in New York, too. They're all over the place. It's disgusting what's happening to our country!'

Gang members who are in the U.S. illegally, he pledged, 'will be out of here so frickin fast' if he takes over the Oval Office.

And he returned to the brash rhetoric that made him a household name among immigration watchers, referring to child-citizens born of illegal immigrants as 'anchor babies' before allowing that 'I don't mean to be disrespectful.'

Trump said that just before emerging from the corner of the American Airlines center, where the Dallas Stars hockey team and Dallas Mavericks basketball team play, he had met with Texans who had lost family members to a crime wave brought north by illegal border-crossers.

'Their sons, their daughters – killed by illegal immigrants!' Trump boomed. 'We have to stop illegal immigration!'

Chants of 'USA! USA! USA!' rang out even as a small group of immigrants' rights protesters demonstrated outside.

'We have to build a wall, folks,' he said to a crescendo of cheers. 'We have to build a wall. And a wall works. All you have to do is go to Israel and say "How does your wall work?"'

He's definitely listening to the Alt-Right and not the so-called "conservative media". No wonder they hate him so much. If you're even remotely concerned about immigration and its societally destructive effects, Trump is the only candidate you can possibly support.

One thing I think those who assume he is bluffing are missing: politicians are affected much more strongly by their wives than most people think. And look what is happening in Melania Trump's homeland. I'm as cynical about politics as anyone, but I don't see Trump doing a double-cross on immigration were he to win.

Labels: immigration, politics

305 Comments:

AJ Popo September 15, 2015 8:09 AM: Would any of the other candidates even tolerate the crowd chanting USA? It feels like patriotism is actively suppressed by the ruling class.

I take Trump from the angle of a prideful man who is sick of seeing his homeland denegrated.
YIH September 15, 2015 8:10 AM: All you have to do is go to Israel and say "How does your wall work?"
That's what Trump needs to keep saying. Make the NRO synagogue and the rest of the cuckservatives face facts.
YIH September 15, 2015 8:14 AM: Another good line would be ''Press 1 for Trump, Dos por Bush Familia en Espanol''.
FreedomNotFascism September 15, 2015 8:19 AM: A border wall is an act of war. Trump is a warmonger and neocon. Get the facts:

fee.org/anythingpeaceful/why-open-borders

Freedom not fascism. Free borders. Free peoples.
Bz September 15, 2015 8:23 AM: Don't forget Free Trolling. Free Speech is a bit too far, don't you think?
JACIII September 15, 2015 8:24 AM: @4 Free borders. Dead peoples.

Fixed that for ya'.
The Original Hermit September 15, 2015 8:25 AM: @4 It feels like he's spamming.
Sentient Spud September 15, 2015 8:26 AM: A border wall is an act of war.

Do you lock your door at night?
Cyr#0052 September 15, 2015 8:26 AM: @4 The invasion across the southern border has been an act of war for decades. Build the wall.
VD September 15, 2015 8:26 AM: Freedom not fascism. Free borders. Free peoples.

Sorry, even this libertarian will choose literal Italian Fascism over that sort of anti-nationalist, free-borders "freedom".
RedJack #22 September 15, 2015 8:27 AM: Hungary, Germany, the Dutch, and much of the EU just put up walls. Yet very few here seem to be screaming.
Alexander September 15, 2015 8:28 AM: Yeah, cause the lock on my front door is a declaration of war.
Username_Unavailable September 15, 2015 8:31 AM: fee.org/anythingpeaceful/why-open-borders

" It’s the greatest experiment in completely open borders the world has seen in more than a century. It’s called the European Union. And it works. It points toward the ideal: a world in which everyone is free to move about the earth without fear of gun, wall, or barbed wire."

Jeffrey Tucker is a grade-A moron.

"Let’s not fear freedom and free trade (which means, free trade in capital and labor)."

Well, at least he admits it.
PhillipGeorge©2015 September 15, 2015 8:33 AM: Yes patriotism was turned into a dirty word
It should mean loyalty to Jesus Christ.
It was always a lack of specificity. "In God We Trust" only came unstuck for want of detail.
Laziness is a rabid bitch that kills.

Walls / product differentiation/ discrimination = discernment/

both "life liberty and the pursuit of happiness" and the very real devil are all there in details, you have to look at the entire product description.
Chris Mallory September 15, 2015 8:34 AM: @4 Linking to Jeffery Tucker does not help your argument. Lil Jeffy appears to be a "confirmed bachelor" so he has no need to consider the nation he is leaving to his children.
Longstreet September 15, 2015 8:34 AM: So turning a deadbolt is Casus Belli? I feel so empowered!
Josh (the sexiest thing here) September 15, 2015 8:38 AM: Trump:

Simply put, Pat Buchanan has written too many inflammatory, outrageous, and controversial things to ever be elected president.

Also:

“The Reform Party now includes a Klansman, Mr. Duke, a neo-Nazi, Mr. Buchanan, and a communist, Ms. Fulani,” Trump said in a statement on why he would not run at the time. “This is not company I wish to keep.”

http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/trump-once-said-a-gop-candidate-was-too-inflammatory-and-out#.ptQ1zyKNM
Sentient Spud September 15, 2015 8:39 AM: Deadbolts are terrible. They're almost as bad as gates.
Whitey McWhite September 15, 2015 8:40 AM: 'We have to build a wall. And a wall works. All you have to do is go to Israel and say "How does your wall work?"'

Perfect.
Steve, The Dark Ninja of Mockery September 15, 2015 8:41 AM: I like Trump.

I used to watch The Apprentice, and he was very entertaining but also very shrewd in cutting through bullshit.

I can understand why his brash New York billionaire persona doesn't go down well with some people, but those people are wrong.

I have friends and relatives in America and they love Ben Carson. I have nothing against Dr. Carson, but he's boring and looks like a nerd.

Trump looks like a bull in a china shop. A magnificent Highland bull with hooves made for stomping and hair made of golden wire. He's the sort of president you'd see in a Scorcese movie. A human tornado of testosterone and alpha male don'tgiveafuckitude.

And he has all the right enemies. I haven't seen Tumblrinas and manginas this upset since Sarah Palin made fun of the great Community Organiser.

Can you imagine the howls of butthurt rage from sea to shining sea if Trump becomes president? The Canadian border will be thronged with hordes of fleeing hipster manlets, rainbow-haired she-twinks, bulldog-faced lezzers, and nancy-boy pyjama wearers.

Hopefully the Mounties set their wolves on them.
Salt September 15, 2015 8:42 AM: Immigration is a hot button issue. I'm not sure Trump would go far enough in handling it. But he's the only one facing in the right direction. I'd like to see him face-off against Bernie Sanders -
Josh (the sexiest thing here) September 15, 2015 8:45 AM: 'We have to build a wall. And a wall works. All you have to do is go to Israel and say "How does your wall work?"'

Perfect.

On that note:

America’s white nationalists have spoken, and they’ve spoken loud and clear: Donald Trump is their presidential candidate of choice.

From former Ku Klux Klan grand wizard David Duke on down, the proudly racist fringe of the American electorate supports Trump. For his part, the candidate is not welcoming their support.

“I don’t need his endorsement,” Trump told Bloomberg TV of Duke’s praise. “I certainly wouldn’t want his endorsement. I don’t need anybody’s endorsement.”

http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/meet-the-prominent-white-nationalists-fired-up-to-support-do#.dalObyNrj
Crude September 15, 2015 8:45 AM: Trump's willingness to stand and fight when the entirety of the media and the political establishment went for his throat impressed the hell out of me. Voting for him is a gamble, but a gamble I'm willing to take.
Godfrey September 15, 2015 8:45 AM: WOW! He mentioned that Israel had a wall. This is getting serious.

How long until he is shot by a "lone gunman" or has an "accident"?
JACIII September 15, 2015 8:47 AM: @21 Can you imagine the howls of butthurt rage from sea to shining sea if Trump becomes president? The Canadian border will be thronged with hordes of fleeing hipster manlets, rainbow-haired she-twinks, bulldog-faced lezzers, and nancy-boy pyjama wearers.

This. A thousand times, this. There is no saving this cesspool. The only fun to be had is the spectacle of raving lunatics.
YIH September 15, 2015 8:48 AM: @4
Thanks for reminding me about what soured me on Ron Paul
JACIII September 15, 2015 8:48 AM: VD,
You are going to have to post a trigger warning for Josh on your Trump posts.
trev006 September 15, 2015 8:49 AM: Hopefully the Mounties set their wolves on them.

We got rid of the wolves. Budget cuts. Though Due South showed some beautiful possibilities.

Anyways, Trump is fantastic, agreed. It briefly occurs to me that Jeb Bush's specific line of attack- that a huge wall is "not conservative" and would cost hundreds of billions of dollars- is suicidally stupid. The quick and relatively cheap success of walls in Hungary and Israel proves this quickly enough. Surely Jeb! is smarter than to use this argument against someone whose multi-billion dollar fortune came from building luxury hotels, right?

I'm looking forward to the next debate, obviously.
Rek. September 15, 2015 8:49 AM: 'All you have to do is go to Israel and say "How does your wall work?"'

Now that's what you call a rhetorical slam dunk.
Unknown September 15, 2015 8:49 AM: All you have to do is go to Israel and say "How does your wall work?"

Yes. Every mention of the wall/fence should be, "a fence modeled after Israel's." Every single time. It would have two effects. First, it would make it harder for the globalist elites to criticize it, and it would be fun to watch them squirm. (Okay, three effects.) Also, more Americans would think, "Huh, what's he mean? Israel has a fence? But isn't that bad? Let me check that out. [pulls up some articles] Wow, that's quite a fence, but it says it's working. If it's okay for the Holy Land, maybe I can be for a fence without being a racist Nazi child-drowner after all."

"A fence modeled after Israel's." Make it a macro.

(Yes, I know a fence isn't the most important step in stopping immigration, and that it won't help without other changes. But it's part of it, and a huge part of the rhetorical battle.)
Nate September 15, 2015 8:51 AM: Wierd...

And here I thought focusing on "illegal" immigration was a sign of someone being a conservative.

Ya know this guy is out there claiming we need to bring a bunch of those "syrian refugees" to the US right?

In the 1999 Dubya was going around telling everyone he was a liberal. He was calling himself a "compassionate conservative".. and talking about liberal ideals. But everyone believed he was a true-hearted conservative and that was just election talk. Then he got into office... and low and behold... he was a liberal.

Trump is going around talking about illegal immigration... and at the same time... talking about the value of legal immigration.

As if the law is what makes or breaks invasion.

I don't believe for a second that Trump will actually do anything about immigration. I think the guy is a liberal.

If he stays in the race... and if he wins... and if he actually does something about immigration...

I will admit I was wrong about him.

Until then... I think he's a joke...and I think anyone that falls for his schtick is being foolish.
VD September 15, 2015 8:51 AM: It’s the greatest experiment in completely open borders the world has seen in more than a century. It’s called the European Union. And it works.

Talk about a self-refuting argument. Tucker is a moron.
Unknown September 15, 2015 8:55 AM: America’s white nationalists have spoken, and they’ve spoken loud and clear: Donald Trump is their presidential candidate of choice.

I wonder if there were any MSM articles pointing out the percentage of drug addicts that supported Obama.

Okay, I'm lying. I don't wonder.
Josh (the sexiest thing here) September 15, 2015 8:55 AM: Trump is going around talking about illegal immigration... and at the same time... talking about the value of legal immigration.

"I want people to come in to our country legally. I want to have a big fat beautiful open door. I want people of great talent to come in for Silicon Valley. I want engineers. I want physicists," he said, with his trademark gusto. "We want people of great talent to be in the United States work here and ultimately to become a citizen."

Yes, he wants to “enforce the law” when it comes to people here illegally, but for talented, well-educated strivers he still wants America to be a beacon.

“[Immigration] also can be a very positive subject, because I believe so strongly in immigration and we have to stop illegal immigration and we have to look forward to great immigration done in a legal manner,” he said.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/donald-trump-latino-pivot
YIH September 15, 2015 8:58 AM: @21 Steve:
I have friends and relatives in America and they love Ben Carson. I have nothing against Dr. Carson, but he's boring and looks like a nerd.
When you see who his biggest cheerleaders are you might not think so highly of him. Oh, and did I mention he's black?
Bz September 15, 2015 9:00 AM: Speaking of walls or even border controls, here is the Economist

"On September 13th Thomas de Maizière, the interior minister, explained Germany’s stunning policy, after giving the order to interrupt train connections between Germany and Austria and to begin spot checks on car traffic across the German-Austrian border.
...
But Mrs Merkel quickly explained that this was only an “exception” to the existing rules, whereby refugees must in theory apply for EU asylum in the first member state they enter.
...
What may appear as a capitulation by Mrs Merkel, however, is at least in part also a tactical manoeuvre to press the rest of the EU to accept a quota system for asylum seekers—which they might do later today at a gathering of the EU’s interior ministers.
...
Germany borders on more countries than any other state in the EU: nine in total, all in the Schengen area of document-free travel. “We Germans have a great interest in keeping these borders open,” Mr Gabriel said. But if Germany’s neighbours don’t help by accepting more refugees, he added, “the debate can very quickly change completely. That would be a politically dramatic reverse for Europe, and I think a mental one too. But it would also be heavy economic blow...especially for those states that are now saying: ‘We won’t participate.’""

http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21664583-move-taken-reduce-flow-migrants-undermines-europes-free-movement-policies-germany

I can't even. Anyway, that's what things look like from inside the rubber room.
Big Bill September 15, 2015 9:02 AM: @4: I stand corrected. What Hitler did in Poland was merely defending Germany from a Polish Act of War.

Had the Poles torn down their border fence--their Act of War against Germany--and permitted free migration of Germans seeking lebensraum, the whole WWII misunderstanding thingie would have been nipped in the bud.

The Poles Made War on Germany!
VD September 15, 2015 9:02 AM: I don't believe for a second that Trump will actually do anything about immigration. I think the guy is a liberal.

You may be right. But he is the only candidate about whom one can even say that he MIGHT.
Whitey McWhite September 15, 2015 9:06 AM: 24. Crude: "Trump's willingness to stand and fight when the entirety of the media and the political establishment went for his throat impressed the hell out of me."

How about when he was economically punished by his business partners? He paid the price and kept going forward.

I normally judge seriousness like this: if someone is smiling and laughing, but he puts his hand in his pocket and takes out the money, he's serious. But if someone looks stern and gloomy gives a screed on how serious this is, but the words aren't followed by dollars or deeds, he's not serious.

Trump is serious about creating a real border for America. None of the other candidates are. They don't pay a price to push the issue, like Trump has.
Unknown September 15, 2015 9:09 AM: Here's the easy response to old quotes from Trump contradicting what he's saying today: "Hey, when all these other guys were polishing their political credentials for decades, I was running businesses and making money, so frankly, some of my political beliefs were naive. Once I decided to get involved and researched these things, I realized some of my beliefs were wrong, so I changed them. Who's never changed his mind about anything?"

There, old quotes made irrelevant. His opponents are gonna have to come up with new material.
Nate September 15, 2015 9:11 AM: I am confused. Here I thought focusing on "illegal immigration" was a sign of cuckservativeism.

There are actual candidates out there that are talking about the immigration problem. Not the illegal immigration problem.

They aren't going to win the nomination. But they are much better on immigration that Trump is.
Soga September 15, 2015 9:11 AM: Germany is Nazi for demanding that other EU nations accept refugees! [/SJW]
Username_Unavailable September 15, 2015 9:13 AM: You may be right. But he is the only candidate about whom one can even say that he MIGHT.

Yep. That's why I don't care how many times Nate or Josh bring up other candidates who are supposedly more anti legal immigration than Trump. I don't care because I know full well guys like Santorum and Jindal are blowing nothing but smoke.

I wish Trump took just as much of a hardline stance against legal immigration as he does illegal immigration, but at least there's a chance, even if miniscule, that he does something about the latter. There's zero chance any of the rest of the Republican field would do anything about either.
Redd September 15, 2015 9:14 AM: Trump. Extraordinary. Never seen anything like it. Debate tomorrow night may tell. Ruling class knives are going to be out in force, even while he's hitting liftoff. I will vote for him in the primary, in the general election, and third party if he's cheated by the Smart People running the GOP.

More. Fuckin'. Popcorn.
Redd September 15, 2015 9:17 AM: Masterful explanation of Trump phenomenon yesterday by Rush Limbaugh. "Trump is not a conservative. It has nothing to do with that." Read the transcript: Spot. On.

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2015/09/14/memo_to_the_inside_the_beltway_gop_trump_is_popular_because_he_s_not_you
Done with it all September 15, 2015 9:17 AM: Nate: "If he stays in the race... and if he wins... and if he actually does something about immigration...

I will admit I was wrong about him.

Until then... I think he's a joke...and I think anyone that falls for his schtick is being foolish."

Regardless of when you admit you are wrong, you do realize you are still wrong?
Nate September 15, 2015 9:17 AM: " I don't care because I know full well guys like Santorum and Jindal are blowing nothing but smoke."

I don't care for Santorum... but I'd love to know how you can claim Santorum is blowing smoke and Trump isn't.

There isn't a shred of evidence to support that conclusion. Santorum has been good on immigration for years according to his grade outs from immigration watch dogs. Meanwhile... Trump apparently decided "illegal immigration" was bad sometime in June.
Stilicho September 15, 2015 9:19 AM: @39 pick a name. Then stop lying. People didn't complain about Obunghole's lack of govt experience, they complained about his lack of experience doing anything other than milking rubes as a "community organizer".
Lulabelle (68) September 15, 2015 9:20 AM: "27. JACIII September 15, 2015 8:48 AM

VD,
You are going to have to post a trigger warning for Josh on your Trump posts."

lol. This.
YIH September 15, 2015 9:20 AM: @42 Nate:
There are actual candidates out there that are talking about the immigration problem. Not the illegal immigration problem.
True, but his name is literally a joke - as is his campaign.
Like Perry, he'll be home for Christmas.
napari September 15, 2015 9:22 AM: Last night referring to the scaffolding and maintenance work around the Capitol building Donald Trump's tone was pitch perfect:
1. Work faster!
2. Trump will save the tax payer millions by allowing the scaffolding to stay up during his inauguration!
Both points were music to my ears!
Waste not want not has been a life long credo for me and no other candidate seems to care!
Stg58 / Animal Mother #225 September 15, 2015 9:22 AM: Jeffrey Tucker is someone we should listen to, because he is smart and edgy. I know this because he wears a bowtie, and libertarians on Facebook make memes about him with his face and one of his super smart quotes.
Done with it all September 15, 2015 9:22 AM: Nate: "There are actual candidates out there that are talking about the immigration problem. Not the illegal immigration problem."

Seriously Nate, Trump is the only guy out there who may actually do something, except for Ted Cruz, possibly...

You keep talking about Trump not being trustworthy and you can't believe what he says as if you can believe what any of them say.

What we do know is Trump is doing the heavy lifting. Even you and Josh can't deny that.

I support the guy in the moment who is on the front lines. Not the young lieutenant back at headquarters telling the Generals what he will do when he gets his chance.
Josh (the sexiest thing here) September 15, 2015 9:22 AM: There, old quotes made irrelevant. His opponents are gonna have to come up with new material.

How is trump any different from Romney in this sense?
Done with it all September 15, 2015 9:25 AM: Hey Josh, did you hear? Donald Trump once talked back to his mother on Sunday morning with a mouth full of pancakes.

This disqualifies him.
Nate September 15, 2015 9:26 AM: "What we do know is Trump is doing the heavy lifting. Even you and Josh can't deny that."

The area he's doing the heavy lifting isn't immigration. Its the in the battle against politcal correctness.
jay c September 15, 2015 9:26 AM: Trump is fickle. He might be saying (some of) the right things today, but there's no way to tell what he'll be saying next year. He's great for the election because he's pulling other candidates in the right direction on immigration. However, I think he's much more likely to become America's Caesar than Obama ever was.
Whitey McWhite September 15, 2015 9:28 AM: 58. jay c: "He might be saying (some of) the right things today, but there's no way to tell what he'll be saying next year."

That's the reason to support him.
Dark Herald September 15, 2015 9:29 AM: Nate is correct.

On the off chance that Zaphod Comacho takes the nomination in a broken field. And if the Democrat candidate dies the week before the election. Yes, he could take the White House under those circumstances.

And Trump will be effortlessly co-opted by the Washington establishment. The man simply has no character, no morality and no foundation. Once ensconced in the Washington bubble he will instantly believe what he is told to believe about immigration.

Since he never believed what he was saying anyway.

Nate, you will have nothing to apologize for.
Nxx September 15, 2015 9:30 AM: Freedom not fascism. Free borders. Free peoples.

I don't understand radical libertarians. A country is the property of its people. How would they like it if people broke into their homes and settled their kitchen? Would they still be yapping about freedom or would they recognize there's property rights involved?
Done with it all September 15, 2015 9:33 AM: Cataline Sergius: "And Trump will be effortlessly co-opted by the Washington establishment. The man simply has no character, no morality and no foundation. Once ensconced in the Washington bubble he will instantly believe what he is told to believe about immigration."

Trump held tough when the whole world seemed to want him destroyed. He was deemed unfit, unworthy, and should do the honorable thing and get out of the race. The whole world demanded it.

He held the line anyway and kicked the hell out of everyone, taking on all comers and not even slowing down but blitzing right on through.

He has the NWO shaking.

Should I believe you or my lying eyes?
Skylark Thibedeau September 15, 2015 9:34 AM: "It’s the greatest experiment in completely open borders the world has seen in more than a century. It’s called the European Union. And it works."

And we're watching it implode before our very eyes.
YIH September 15, 2015 9:36 AM: @46 VFM bot #188:
I bet Rush likes Trump, but would rather someone else be the nominee (like Maricon JEB).
That said, Rush can't really attack Trump either - it would start driving away his audience. Things have changed, there is actual competition for that audience, such as Hannity, and even Glenn Bunk. Even dropping to #2 national would wound Rush in a way the left could never do.
Unknown September 15, 2015 9:39 AM: How is trump any different from Romney in this sense?

For starters, Romney did have a track record as a liberal politician. There was no need to blow dust off 16-year-old jabs he took at a political opponent of the past. Opponents could simply point to what he recently did in office.

By the way, I know there are recent quotes from Trump that raise concerns. I'm not talking about those. His opponents should stick to those, because dragging up stuff he said in an election last century makes them look like they've got nothing.
Josh (the sexiest thing here) September 15, 2015 9:41 AM: How does this not describe Trump?

For years, conservatives afraid of being called racist have stupidly attempted to finesse the immigration issue, claiming that "it's not the immigration, it's the illegality" while loudly declaring their support for LEGAL immigration to balance their opposition to ILLEGAL immigration. But the distinction was always meaningless; the behavior of the individual immigrant and the cumulative effects of mass immigration have historically had nothing to do with the legality or illegality of the act of immigration.

http://www.voxday.blogspot.com/2015/07/the-cuckservatives-cry.html
Whitey McWhite September 15, 2015 9:41 AM: I like the image at the top of the thread.
JaimeInTexas September 15, 2015 9:44 AM: I got in the car on the way home and listened, in the radio, to as much as I could of Trump's "speech," on the way home. I guess I listened to about 20 minutes then I switched the radio. All he did was to ramble and I just could not take any more of many words and nothing being said. I obviously missed that part of his speech quoted here.
JaimeInTexas September 15, 2015 9:45 AM: At some point Trump mentioned and praised O'Reilley and the idiots cheered to that too! Ugh!
Whitey McWhite September 15, 2015 9:47 AM: By talking about illegal immigrants and their crimes, Trump is using a sort of rhetoric to build support to do two things: expel millions of illegals, and build a wall.

These two things are not nearly enough, but they are positives.

That is what makes Trump different from cuckservative politicians and pundits who have talked about illegal immigration in order to mark off legal immigration as outside the window of acceptable discussion.
JACIII September 15, 2015 9:48 AM: @57 NAte - The area he's doing the heavy lifting isn't immigration. Its the in the battle against politcal correctness.

That's enough. For now. So many things have become "Third rail" in what passes for political discourse for a reason; PC is/was the most effective tool of the SJW and a shield for cuckservatives to hide behind.
Nate September 15, 2015 9:48 AM: "How does this not describe Trump?"

Because Megyn Kelly was mean to him?
Nate September 15, 2015 9:49 AM: "That's enough. For now."

maybe if he was actually standing up against immigration. But that's just it... the whole thing is a bluff. if it wasn't... he wouldn't be hiding behind the word "illegal".
Anonymous September 15, 2015 9:50 AM: @Joel

It is kind of weird to speak of fearing a wall. The only time a wall ever caused me any concern of any kind was when I thought it might not be strong enough.

"Without fear ... of a wall"???

Really?
Josh (the sexiest thing here) September 15, 2015 9:52 AM: It is kind of weird to speak of fearing a wall. The only time a wall ever caused me any concern of any kind was when I thought it might not be strong enough.

"Without fear ... of a wall"???

Really?

Walls work both ways.

No doubt many east germans were afraid of the Berlin wall.
JACIII September 15, 2015 9:52 AM: It is very interesting to watch how he punishes detractors and rewards supporters. It's like he's training the media.

"I like him/her. He/she has been very nice to me." and he goes on their show and boosts their ratings. He went on CNN after the debate and boosted their ratings to punish Fox.

It is fascinating to watch such overt manipulation.
Josh (the sexiest thing here) September 15, 2015 9:55 AM: It is very interesting to watch how he punishes detractors and rewards supporters. It's like he's training the media.

"I like him/her. He/she has been very nice to me." and he goes on their show and boosts their ratings. He went on CNN after the debate and boosted their ratings to punish Fox.

It is fascinating to watch such overt manipulation.

He gave a similar warning to Ted Cruz in Dallas.
Username_Unavailable September 15, 2015 9:55 AM: @48 Nate,

I will fully admit that a lot of it comes down to the fact that I just plain believe Trump and do not believe Santorum. Perhaps I'm just getting taken in by Trump's slick, alpha rhetoric, but I believe he means what he says. I don't believe Santorum. Or, to put it more accurately: I don't believe he has the passion or the political skills needed to actually do anything about it even if he truly wanted to.

This is something I think a lot of people miss. Given the current political culture in America, it's going to take a hell of a lot of guts to do what would be necessary to do in order to crack down on illegal or legal immigration. The entire media, academic, judicial and bureaucratic establishments are progressive strongholds and are going to fiercely resist any such efforts every step of the way. Only a man of great determination and political skill would even have a chance at winning such a battle. I believe Trump has the stuff to do it, Santorum doesn't. And neither does any of the rest of the sissified Republican field.

Look what it took Obama to pass his Obamacare. Even with all of the Democratic Senate trickery and Supreme Court wordplay, the damn thing still only barely survived. And this was a leftist project with full support of the media and bureaucratic/special interest establishments. What more is it going to take to go against the grain on an issues as taboo as immigration and deportation?

Aside from Trump, not a single one of the other Republicans would stand a chance -- even if (big if) they actually believed and were committed to the anti-immigration positions they've payed lip service to.
JACIII September 15, 2015 9:56 AM: @josh - Walls work both ways.

This is the downside. You won't be allowed to leave with outstanding debts (student loans!) or unpaid parking tickets or too much cash or if you owe child support or are subject to making alimony payments. This will happen.
The other robot September 15, 2015 9:57 AM: @21 Immigration is a hot button issue. I'm not sure Trump would go far enough in handling it. But he's the only one facing in the right direction.

We don't want any half measures here! If we can't go all the way we will continue to wallow in our destruction.

/sarc
redsash September 15, 2015 9:57 AM: Walls are not an act of war, climbing them is however.

This all may be irrelevant for I see a future America where more people are trying to leave than enter. I do believe that the rainbow lighted White House probably was the final insult for a much patient God. I don't know how or when but this nation is headed for a cosmic smack down.
Nate September 15, 2015 10:01 AM: "This is the downside. You won't be allowed to leave with outstanding debts (student loans!) or unpaid parking tickets or too much cash or if you owe child support or are subject to making alimony payments. This will happen."

craigslist search: catalina 30

for no particular reason
Anonymous September 15, 2015 10:02 AM: Josh

They didnt fear the wall. People who demand no restrictions on anything, ever; apart from being fantasists, they're a danger to ofhers, as we see in other spheres.

The people of the Soviet empire feared the Soviets, not the wall.
Josh (the sexiest thing here) September 15, 2015 10:02 AM: http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/259589/donald-trump-endorses-amnesty-illegal-aliens-daniel-greenfield

But he said the country should take a different approach with "the other ones" — i.e., undocumented immigrants who have "done a good job" since arriving in the U.S.

"I'm a very big believer in the merit system," Trump said. "I have to tell you: Some of these people have been here, they've done a good job. You know, in some cases, sadly, they've been living under the shadows. ... If somebody's been outstanding, we try and work something out.
Nate September 15, 2015 10:03 AM: "I will fully admit that a lot of it comes down to the fact that I just plain believe Trump and do not believe Santorum"

I cannot for the life of me imagine what would make anyone believe anything trump says... about anything.
Anonymous September 15, 2015 10:05 AM: The Germans tore diwn a wall that separated kin, and have just put up a wall to separate thmselves from foreigners (albeit a wall of blue uniforms).
The other robot September 15, 2015 10:09 AM: If somebody's been outstanding, we try and work something out.

Let's define outstanding. If they are a productive rocket surgeon, that sounds outstanding to me. Maybe they came up with a new way to separate conjoined twins, like black and white America (n the Danny Devito/Arnold Schwartz sense.)

That sounds like outstanding to me.
Anonymous September 15, 2015 10:10 AM: @32

Vox, did you ever spend any time with the Mises crowd? When I was a member, I used to be confused on how it was basically only Hoppe who was against immigration, mostly for the reasons nationalists cite plus property law issues. It was odd with how much they would praise him and then in lowered breath say how wrong he was on immigration. Maybe it's because a large majority of the main leaders are Catholic and American?

@30 Amen Cail, I use the Israel fence point all the time in discussion. It is very disarming to the open borders crowd.
Deilig i Danmark September 15, 2015 10:10 AM: I must confess, I really liked (the idea of) the Schengen Agreement - the open borders area largely overlapping with the European Union. It seems like a thing that could have worked reasonably well on its own if the Europeans had made a concerted effort to maintain external walls outside Schengen while allowing e.g. Norwegians to visit France and Frenchmen to visit Norway freely, because both those peoples could trust each other to behave reasonably decently when visiting each others' countries, but neither should have free admittance of Syrians of Algerians.

Within a civilized region, I think it can be sustainable and pleasant to have unrestricted travel between countries, and I took advantage of such in Schengen with some extranational friends to go on roadtrips through Europe several years back where we would irregularly pick up and drop off people on certain legs of the journey. Driving across multiple European borders in a day with zero hassle was particularly enjoyable when I mentally compared it to a previous experience of crossing an African border that took hours and a baggage inspection by a pair of corrupt baggage inspectors, one of whom tried to steal some of our tinned food while the other strongly hinted that this was a matter of course and we should look the other way.

It's a damn shame, as I see it, that this had to be ruined by a second Volkerwanderung. Immigration is why we can't have nice things. Vox, would you say such a thing was necessarily self-ruining, or just ruined because it was attached to the EUrocracy and a gazillion migrants from uncivilized regions? Because I hold out hope that there might exist a legally unencumbered Danskebåten running between Denmark and Norway in the future.
Mandos September 15, 2015 10:11 AM: The concerns of the skeptics are legitimate. Assuming the worst should have become a second nature for anybody realistic. Our side is craving for hope, but the Donald's track record as well as the state of modern American politics only should be enough to seriously mitigate the expectations already.

That being said... We live in interesting times and things are accelerating. I wonder how the language finesses between immigration and illegal immigration stances will look like in November 2016, after one more year of Camp of the Saints in Europe.
Josh (the sexiest thing here) September 15, 2015 10:11 AM: That sounds like outstanding to me.

You and trump might disagree on what outstanding means.

From the same article:

We have to bring great people into this country, okay? And I want to bring — I love the idea of immigration, but it’s got to be legal immigration. Now, a lot of these people are helping us, whether it’s the grapes, or whether it’s jobs, and sometimes it’s jobs, in all fairness, I love our country, but sometimes it’s jobs that a citizen of the United States doesn’t want to do. I mean, there are jobs that a lot of people don’t want to do. I want to move them out, and we’re going to move them back in, and let them be legal, but they have to be in here legally
Username_Unavailable September 15, 2015 10:11 AM: I cannot for the life of me imagine what would make anyone believe anything trump says... about anything.

Desperation?

Look, what's undeniable about Trump is that he's a man of action. He knows how to get things done. And he's certainly talking a good game on illegal immigration. If in the off chance he actually means what he says, he has the chops to get it done. It's a long shot, but it's a hell of a lot more than any of the other Republicans are offering, which, based on past experience, is nothing but hot air, apologies and never ending acquiescence to the left.
Josh (the sexiest thing here) September 15, 2015 10:14 AM: Look, what's undeniable about Trump is that he's a man of action. He knows how to get things done.

He will make the trains run on time!
James Dixon September 15, 2015 10:14 AM: > You may be right. But he is the only candidate about whom one can even say that he MIGHT.

Correct. And that's why he'll almost certainly win the nomination. People know politicians lie, but at least this one is telling the lies they want to hear. They figure "What do I have to lose?"

> However, I think he's much more likely to become America's Caesar than Obama ever was.

As in not leave office and try to become an emperor? There's only one candidate who you have to worry about making that decision, and it's not Trump.

> ...but would rather someone else be the nominee (like Maricon JEB).

You must have missed the show where he recommended that Jeb and Hillary run on the same ticket, as there was no difference in their positions. Rush has had his fill of the Bush family.
Nate September 15, 2015 10:15 AM: " And he's certainly talking a good game on illegal immigration."

and here I thought "talking a good game on illegal immigration" was a sure sign of a cuckservative.

You guys need to make up your minds.
The other robot September 15, 2015 10:18 AM: This guy seems to be doing some outstanding things. Probably not an illegal immigrant, though.
Josh (the sexiest thing here) September 15, 2015 10:20 AM: and here I thought "talking a good game on illegal immigration" was a sure sign of a cuckservative.

Only if it's not Trump.
swiftfoxmark2 September 15, 2015 10:21 AM: I am confused. Here I thought focusing on "illegal immigration" was a sign of cuckservativeism.

You are confusing "actions" with "words". A cuckservative will talk about how immigration, especially the Mexican invasion, is bad but will do nothing about it.

Also, even if Trump only focuses on illegal immigration, it will stem the tide of legal immigration as well. Once the US is perceived as unwelcoming, even folks who want to follow the law will consider other options.
John Wright September 15, 2015 10:22 AM: "A border wall is an act of war."

This statement has a benefit of being alliterative, and being able to fit on a bumper sticker. Otherwise, it makes no sense and has no grounding in law, history, or reality. Defending one's borders is not only not casus belli, it is the essential definition of a nation-state, because defending the border prevents invasion.

Preventing invasion is not invasion. A is not not-A.
James Dixon September 15, 2015 10:23 AM: > I cannot for the life of me imagine what would make anyone believe anything trump says... about anything.

I have never heard anyone claim that Trump is a liar. Fickle and likely to change his mind, perhaps, but not a liar.

> Walls work both ways.

Yes, they do. And that is a concern. I don't hear him calling for a wall with Canada though. And it's a lot bigger and easier to cross than the southern one.
Josh (the sexiest thing here) September 15, 2015 10:23 AM: You are confusing "actions" with "words". A cuckservative will talk about how immigration, especially the Mexican invasion, is bad but will do nothing about it.

All trump has done is talk about it.
The other robot September 15, 2015 10:24 AM: He will make the trains run on time!

Fascism is preferable to the current direction!
Josh (the sexiest thing here) September 15, 2015 10:24 AM: I have never heard anyone claim that Trump is a liar. Fickle and likely to change his mind, perhaps, but not a liar.

He's a liar.

He lied in the first debate when he said that he'd given money to every single person up there.

He's lied about his net worth for two decades.
Student in Blue September 15, 2015 10:25 AM: Honestly, just looking at who Trump's main detractors are (i.e. the media who can't stop talking about him and trying to trash him) should be a good sign.
McChuck September 15, 2015 10:26 AM: Now this is how you build a wall. Proven reliability.
http://theenchantedmanor.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Berlin-Wall.jpg
Chris Mallory September 15, 2015 10:27 AM: @100 "All trump has done is talk about it."

The Feds would probably frown on Trump building the wall on his own. Talk is all anyone can do about it at the moment.
Desdichado September 15, 2015 10:28 AM: How does this not describe Trump?

Have you not even read his immigration plan? It also has major changes to legal immigration, particularly the H1-B program.

It's not everything I want it to be, but it's a heckuva lot of it, and better than what anyone else out there is saying.

I should say: better than anyone else who has even a ghost of a chance at having the political skill to get elected and push through their plans.
Username_Unavailable September 15, 2015 10:29 AM: He will make the trains run on time!

If making the trains run on time is code for building a beaner wall and deporting wetbacks, what's wrong with that?
Josh (the sexiest thing here) September 15, 2015 10:30 AM: If making the trains run on time is code for building a beaner wall and deporting wetbacks, what's wrong with that?

Trump has said that once he kicks them out he's going to let most of them back in.
Josh (the sexiest thing here) September 15, 2015 10:30 AM: Have you not even read his immigration plan?

Yes
Noah B. September 15, 2015 10:31 AM: and here I thought "talking a good game on illegal immigration" was a sure sign of a cuckservative.

Not really. The cuckservatives can't even pretend to take a stand on anything. They're too busy calling those of us who want to control our borders racists.
Anonymous September 15, 2015 10:31 AM: @96 Josh

"Only if it's not Trump."

I know it's early in the game, but at this point Trump is hitting a nerve no one else is willing to touch and his stand is undeniably resonating with a lot of folks.

What assurances do we have that any of the candidates have the wherewithal to follow through on any of their promises?

"I have friends and relatives in America and they love Ben Carson. I have nothing against Dr. Carson, but he's boring and looks like a nerd."

The guy gives a speech at a prayer breakfast and he is suddenly presidential material?
Josh (the sexiest thing here) September 15, 2015 10:32 AM: Also, regarding Trump's immigration plan:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/18/politics/donald-trump-immigration-policy-tweets/

(CNN)Donald Trump appeared to contradict his own immigration policy proposal Tuesday, just two days after releasing a detailed outline of his plans.

Trump said he wants foreigners who study at American universities to be able to stay in the U.S., but his immigration plan released Sunday would make it more difficult for foreigners to obtain certain visas and green cards that would allow them to remain and work in the U.S. legally.

"When foreigners attend our great colleges & want to stay in the U.S., they should not be thrown out of our country," Trump tweeted on Tuesday. "I want talented people to come into this country -- to work hard and become citizens. Silicon Valley needs engineers, etc."
Noah B. September 15, 2015 10:34 AM: I would definitely prefer that Trump were more solid on immigration. He is far from perfect. But it's a sad fact that he is the only even proposing to deport significant numbers of illegals.
Desdichado September 15, 2015 10:34 AM: I cannot for the life of me imagine what would make anyone believe anything trump says... about anything.

He's not a politician, which have a much worse record of lying to us. That doesn't necessarily make him trustworthy, but it does mean that your complaint has no teeth. So what if he does lie to us? That makes him different than every other person running... how?

Would I rather have a principled, actually trustworthy guy running for office on the platform of my choice who shows the obvious skill to get himself elected and enact his plans?

Of course! But I don't see anyone like that in the race right now, so Trump it is.
RedJack #22 September 15, 2015 10:34 AM: Trump isn't Ceasar, he is Crassus.

But Sanders is one of the Grachi.

We have started to hit some rather interesting times. My expectation is that the entertainment will continue for a bit, but the real "interesting" things are coming soon. Remember what happened when the real Ceaser showed up
Josh (the sexiest thing here) September 15, 2015 10:35 AM: He's not a politician, which have a much worse record of lying to us.

He became a politician the moment he announced his candidacy.
Username_Unavailable September 15, 2015 10:36 AM: Honestly, just looking at who Trump's main detractors are (i.e. the media who can't stop talking about him and trying to trash him) should be a good sign.

Eh. It can be a useful as an initial indicator, but nothing more than that. The left are crazy people who think anyone to the right of Bill Clinton is on the same plane as Adolf Hitler.

The left hated/hates George W. Bush and Mitt Romney as well. And they were both objectively horrible.
James Dixon September 15, 2015 10:36 AM: > He's a liar.

OK, I've now heard one person call him a liar. :)

Remember Josh, Trump uses rhetoric, no dialectic.
Whitey McWhite September 15, 2015 10:37 AM: Practically speaking, Donald Trump has the endorsement of Senator Jeff Sessions. Nobody has done as much to keep America for Americans.

Senator Jeff Sessions might get let down too. But there isn't a better bet.
Dark Herald September 15, 2015 10:38 AM: @ 20

Look Steve, I thought the labour party's recent choice of Shadow Chancellor was vastly entertaining as well. But at the end of the day we are talking about who is going to be the planetary hegemon here. Zaphod Camacho is not the man for the job.

Not that he's going get the job. The only thing Trump is doing, is knocking out Baby Bush's actual competitors.

Jeb can afford to play the waiting game, his only worry is that the donor class will lose confidence in him and go knocking on Kasich's door. Trump is still sitting at 30% he won't get any bigger than that.

The real king maker at the moment appears to be Carson. He won't get the nomination either but if his support remains static he can decide who does.
Username_Unavailable September 15, 2015 10:39 AM: Trump has said that once he kicks them out he's going to let most of them back in.

We'll worry about that once we get there. These people are already here anyway.
Alexander September 15, 2015 10:42 AM: There is another beauty of the "How does your wall work?"

Put in those exact words, it highlights the stupidity of the opposition. How does the wall work? How the hell do you think it works. It's a wall. The idea that we cannot grasp the complexities of a wall!

That sentence is perfect. America, the land where waves of migrants have reduced the national IQ so much that a nation that landed on a moon is now troubled by the idea of a large stationary mass that makes linear travel difficult.

Let's make America great again! Or at least not suck so hard that concepts that predate civilization elude us.

Trump 2016.
Username_Unavailable September 15, 2015 10:42 AM: The guy gives a speech at a prayer breakfast and he is suddenly presidential material?

That's what put him on the map. Being a Magic Negro makes him presidential material. Because "see, I'm not racist!"
David September 15, 2015 10:43 AM: "All trump has done is talk about it."

Lets take a moment to think about why that is.

"Trump has said that once he kicks them out he's going to let most of them back in."

He's said if there's any good one's we might let them back in, but it'll have to be legally. So you think what's going to happen is, he's going to deport 50 million people and then let back in 39 million, when in reality, if he's being honest, it'll probably be a million. Which I can live with.

The only way we'll truly know if Trump is being honest is if he fulfills his promise to deport them all and build a wall (how's that for a slogan?). Until then it's all talk from both sides.
Nate September 15, 2015 10:45 AM: "Have you not even read his immigration plan? It also has major changes to legal immigration, particularly the H1-B program. "

Session's plan is excellent.

Unfortunately judging by his rhetoric it appears Trump hasn't actually read it.
Josh (the sexiest thing here) September 15, 2015 10:49 AM: Unfortunately judging by his rhetoric it appears Trump hasn't actually read it.

Trump only reads the Art of the Deal and the Bible.
David September 15, 2015 10:52 AM: @126

I doubt he's read the Bible in decades. But he knows what his base likes and at least bothers to tell us that. The other candidates simply tell us to eat shit and like it.
karsten September 15, 2015 10:53 AM: "He will make the trains run on time!"

The implications of that statement are absolutely and without reservation a mark in Trump's favour.

Yes. I'm serious.

I remember your past posts, from my occasional visit here. Your dislike of Trump makes him even more appealing. Add to that the media's dislike of him, Wall Street's dislike of him, and especially the Judeocons' dislike of him, and we have a clean sweep of unintentional endorsement.
VD September 15, 2015 10:56 AM: maybe if he was actually standing up against immigration. But that's just it... the whole thing is a bluff. if it wasn't... he wouldn't be hiding behind the word "illegal".

He's not hiding behind the word "illegal". Not in the way that you mean. Besides, it doesn't matter. If Trump got elected on immigration, then turned around and stabbed all his supporters in the back, that would be excellent.

It would destroy the faith of tens of millions in the electoral system who still believe in it.
Matthew September 15, 2015 10:57 AM: In this thread, notice that one side is consistently arguing dialectically, while the other side frequently resorts to rhetoric.
VD September 15, 2015 10:58 AM: He will make the trains run on time!

And he did. What's your concern, that Trump will invade Ethiopia or throw in with Putin instead of NATO?
praetorian September 15, 2015 10:59 AM: Nate & Josh: who do you guys want to see nominated by the 'pubs? Why?
Josh (the sexiest thing here) September 15, 2015 11:00 AM: And he did. What's your concern, that Trump will invade Ethiopia or throw in with Putin instead of NATO?

Hehehe.

Trump's most likely to invade Syria and Iraq to fight ISIS.
BigGaySteve September 15, 2015 11:01 AM: Freedom not fascism. Free borders. Free peoples.

A lot of ERs along the border have been forced to close because they couldn't keep giving out the FREE HEALTHCARE. Drug Resistant TB costs on average $500,000 to treat over 18+ months, almost always tracked back to illegals, almost always picked up by taxpayers. Since the HIV travel ban has been lifted we are getting "refugees" from moslem Africa placed on welfare, section 8 housing and all the benefits the Boston marathon moslems collected, but each AIDS patient uses $2,000-$5,000 JUST IN AIDS MEDS ALONE. In the UK citizens are having trouble getting AIDS care because of all the 3rd world sucking up resources. A low estimate is that every immigrant from south of the border will cost on average $600,000 to the taxpayers over their lifetime.
Josh (the sexiest thing here) September 15, 2015 11:02 AM: Nate & Josh: who do you guys want to see nominated by the 'pubs? Why?

Rand Paul. Because he's the only candidate endorsed by Ron Paul.
Username_Unavailable September 15, 2015 11:07 AM: Because he's the only candidate endorsed by Ron Paul.

No conflict of interest there.
Bz September 15, 2015 11:07 AM: Deilig i Danmark, it was the Madness of Merkel that ended Schengen. How ironic that the moral posturing and lack of leadership by EU bureaucrats and elites will instead ultimately lead to an unprecedented situation of walls erected between all EU countries, along all borders. No other way is currently given for a nation to survive.

We can of course hope for a greater realism in the EU and all its countries to get past this. But don't hold your breath. The problem is we have large and small defector countries (e.g., Germany, Austria and Sweden) who just disregard all rules, nail the doors open on their own, and then leave the mess of problems for all to resolve. Or they push for all to solve the problems their irresponsibility has caused, such as mandatory invader quotas. All in all, not a viable political situation, and its shameless exploitation is why Schengen (and perhaps the EU as a whole) cannot stand.
Anonymous September 15, 2015 11:10 AM: I’m not sure why some people here believe that Trump is only talking about illegal immigration. That’s just not true. Go to his Immigration Policy website, he says many good things against legal immigration. He always says that we have to put American workers first. Also, his immigration policy was written with the input from Senator Jeff Sessions, who is a fantastic opponent of legal immigration.

And for those who seem to worry that Trump is attracting so-called White Nationalist, well---what's wrong with that?

Unadorned---Sorry I can't figure out how to post any other way except through Anonymous since I'm not a joiner, and I don't own an url.
Josh (the sexiest thing here) September 15, 2015 11:11 AM: No conflict of interest there.

To quote the man himself:

There is not one candidate who has run for president in my lifetime who can say they fully share my commitment to liberty, Austrian economics, small government, and following the Constitution, [more] than my son, Rand Paul.

That's why I have wholeheartedly endorsed him.
Anonymous September 15, 2015 11:11 AM: "Unadorned---Sorry I can't figure out how to post any other way except through Anonymous since I'm not a joiner, and I don't own an url."

A throw-away G-mail account?
Username_Unavailable September 15, 2015 11:11 AM: The url is optional. Just pick a name.
David September 15, 2015 11:12 AM: "Rand Paul. Because he's the only candidate endorsed by Ron Paul."

Rand was my first choice as well. Then he completely dropped the ball by not being aggressive on immigration. Talking about freedom and liberty is fine, but this isn't 2007 anymore, it's 2015 and the flood of immigrants across the southern border and into Europe is the issue of the day. Indeed, its the only issue now. He should've capitalized on that, but he didn't and he still refuses to.

It's a shame.
Username_Unavailable September 15, 2015 11:15 AM: If we lose our countries to mass invasion, none of the rest of the issues matter. Rand doesn't even begin to understand this. He's worthless.
IM2L844 September 15, 2015 11:16 AM: Trump is clearly better at marketing/pandering than the other candidates, but I've yet to see anything convincingly substantive from him. It's still early though.
The other robot September 15, 2015 11:22 AM: So-called far-right parties were resurgent before the recent immigration crisis in Europe.

What now? I think the usual suspects will have to start calling them the far left now, or maybe the loony left since branding them Nazis no longer seems to work.

I know, the Auschwitz Party! That should do it. Have a gas of a time with the Auschwitz Party.
Josh. September 15, 2015 11:22 AM: if Trump wins, I am considering suicide.
Josh (the sexiest thing here) September 15, 2015 11:25 AM: Here's a pretty good summary of Rand's legislative proposals on immigration.

After getting elected, one of Paul's first acts was to co-sponsor a bill to end birthright citizenship to deal with the putative scourge of "anchor babies." He opposed the Senate's comprehensive immigration reform bill because it refused to attach his draconian Trust and Verify amendment.

This amendment demanded "100 percent incarceration for all visa overstays or illegal entrants until trial" — even if that meant effectively orphaning the American kids of undocumented parents.
praetorian September 15, 2015 11:26 AM: Do you think Paul will do anything on immigration?
rycamor September 15, 2015 11:26 AM: @146. Josh. September 15, 2015 11:22 AM
if Trump wins, I am considering suicide.

Oh FFS Josh! Drama queening now?
Josh (the sexiest thing here) September 15, 2015 11:26 AM: Do you think Paul will do anything on immigration?

Yes
Anonymous September 15, 2015 11:29 AM: " . . . if Trump wins, I am considering suicide"

Now, now Josh . . . stay strong.
The other robot September 15, 2015 11:30 AM: if Trump wins, I am considering suicide.

Why don't you just emigrate to Canada?
Anonymous September 15, 2015 11:32 AM: I would be very pleased if his references to a wall included not only Israel's, but the European Union's wall at Ceuta, Spain, complete with giant Stalag-like searchlights and razor wire. Bloody EU hypocrites.
BGS September 15, 2015 11:34 AM: Lil Jeffy appears to be a "confirmed bachelor" so he has no need to consider the nation he is leaving to his children.

Not even any relatives that he cares for. One of my grandfathers was still riding around on ATV four wheelers to hunt deer in his high 80s. Barring a "Physical Relationship" with another illegal alien drunk driver's car I will be around for the decline.

All you have to do is go to Israel and say "How does your wall work?"'

"We take $8billion in aid from the US and use it to buy concrete and barbed wire". Oddly enough jews have the reverse stance on every issue when talking Israel or their host nation.

Ku Klux Klan grand wizard David Duke on down, the proudly racist fringe of the American electorate supports Trump

I am gay and would rather have David Duke as a neighbor than any moslem or black you could find. Why, because he is obviously scrupulously law abiding to stay out of jail/news. Holder could have rained down dead tranny crack hoes from DC parties onto his lawn if he was not so scrupulous. Gays marched with the EDL that BBC called Nazis to protest against moslem beheading and rapes. Duke would probably be a much nicer neighbor than your standard Jewish Lesbian Gatekeeper. The best part is Duke believes that gays are victims of jew brainwashing so if things go Mad Max the worse I would have to do is wear a tin foil hat and pretend to be straight.
Mindstorm September 15, 2015 11:35 AM: @37 You are right. ;) Even Poles think so:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0065908/
David September 15, 2015 11:40 AM: I'm not surprised that Trump would sort of distance himself from David Duke, but that interview he did was basically Trump condescending to the interviewer: "Sure i'll apologize if it'll make you feel better." What is so difficult to understand about "one step at a time"? Trump can't drop VDare level realtalk all at once, he has to take the Rush Limbaugh approach and gradually move them to the right.

The Left understands this, or at least the smarter ones do: you don't convince people but going to the extreme, you work them slowly. Trump has to start somewhere and he's picked deporting all illegals and building a wall as his platform. The man wants to win and he's not going to get there by being too extreme. Not yet, anyway.
Were-Puppy September 15, 2015 11:45 AM: @33 Cail Corishev
Edited for more punch

I wonder if there were any MSM articles pointing out the percentage of muslims that supported Obama.
Anonymous September 15, 2015 11:47 AM: As his rallies are demonstrating, there are a LOT of middle-class Americans who are not at all served by either of the parties nor their candidates. Any businessman worth his salt can identify an under-served market.

Trump's candidacy is a clear win for the dissident or alt-Right. It literally doesn't matter if Trump is lying his ass off or not: he has performed the invaluable service of opening up the realm of political rhetoric to doubleplusungood badthink.
Josh (the sexiest thing here) September 15, 2015 11:51 AM: I would be very pleased if his references to a wall included not only Israel's, but the European Union's wall at Ceuta, Spain, complete with giant Stalag-like searchlights and razor wire. Bloody EU hypocrites.

That would be poor rhetoric.

Given the ethnicity and loyalties of the open borders crowd, pointing to Israel's wall is the most effective rhetoric.
Were-Puppy September 15, 2015 11:51 AM: @41 Nate
I am confused. Here I thought focusing on "illegal immigration" was a sign of cuckservativeism.

There are actual candidates out there that are talking about the immigration problem. Not the illegal immigration problem.

They aren't going to win the nomination. But they are much better on immigration that Trump is.
----

This sounds to me like making the perfect the enemy of the good. I'm not sold Trump is for real, and there is still his Yankee problem, but this argument against him doesn't really feel very potent.
Were-Puppy September 15, 2015 11:52 AM: @42 Soga
Germany is Nazi for demanding that other EU nations accept refugees! [/SJW]
---
You just gave me an idea for some very cruel rhetoric!
Mike M. September 15, 2015 11:53 AM: Building a wall is not enough. You must be willing to defend it. In particular, to defend it with deadly force. To build an inner and outer Barrier Wall...and pack the land between them with mines, cover every inch with rifle fire.

Which does not bother me one bit.

Oh, BTW...if a wall is an act of war, let the Mexicans act upon it. I'm quite certain we can book the Marines for a return engagement at the Halls of Montezuma. And maybe adjust that southern border to make the new Barrier Wall considerably shorter.
rycamor September 15, 2015 11:56 AM: @158

On that I think even the Nate-Josh AntiTrumpening can agree. It is the single biggest positive change in American politics since Reagan. The point isn't Trump but what is being revealed in the electorate.
Anonymous September 15, 2015 11:58 AM: "The point isn't Trump but what is being revealed in the electorate."

This. Well said. The question is who has the intestinal fortitude and resilience to capitalize on the sentiment.
LES September 15, 2015 11:58 AM: The EU has to take in all the people who have been living on the land that God promised to Israel. No more Gazas.
The Millennial Falcon September 15, 2015 12:00 PM: To Josh & Nate re: Trump's "cuckservatism",

I'd like to echo James Dixon and point out that Trump almost exclusively deals in rhetoric, not dialectic. The exceptions are his immigration plan and the occasional long-form interview with a cordial, intelligent interviewer (his September 3rd telephone interview with a reporter from The Economist was great - revealed a lot of his presuppositions in foreign policy and came out sounding like Pat Buchanan).

Further, even when Trump goes into full compassionate conservative mode on the rhetoric, that doesn't change the fact that he's the only one going full-bore on the anti-immigration rhetoric.

He's called immigrants murderers and rapists. He has repeatedly called for mass deportation of illegals.

Some cuckservative rhetoric doesn't cancel out the singular work he's done with the alt-right flamethrower.
Sean September 15, 2015 12:02 PM: Trump early on said he would get the mexicans to pay for the wall, but has not come up with how when asked by the press. My thought, why don't we put a heavy tax on people sending money down to Mexico. Call it a wall tax. Money coming from the illegals here to their families in Mexico is like the 3rd of 4th biggest source of income for that country. Tariff or Tax that money so heavy that it does not make sense financially to come here to work and send money back.
Lulabelle (68) September 15, 2015 12:02 PM: "152. The other robot September 15, 2015 11:30 AM

if Trump wins, I am considering suicide.

Why don't you just emigrate to Canada?"

Hmmm. Tough choice.
Case September 15, 2015 12:03 PM: Rand Paul has ran the most incompetent campaign in the history of politics. The only thing that has kept him ever remotely viable is his last name.
mh01701@gmail.com September 15, 2015 12:05 PM: if Trump is the Alpha we all hope he is, he wouldn't be taken in by the DC establishment, he'd stomp it.
A Visitor September 15, 2015 12:06 PM: "Can you imagine the howls of butthurt rage from sea to shining sea if Trump becomes president? The Canadian border will be thronged with hordes of fleeing hipster manlets, rainbow-haired she-twinks, bulldog-faced lezzers, and nancy-boy pyjama wearers."

Remember in '04 when a bunch of A list celebs said if Bush was reelected they'd go to Canada? Yeah, didn't happen. A man can dream though, I'll give you that.

@22 He artfully got around that one. At least he didn't do the ad nauseam thing and invoke Reagan (who said something similar when the KKK supported him).

"WOW! He mentioned that Israel had a wall. This is getting serious." Watch the cuckservatives heads explode trying to say Israel has special needs and we don't.

@28 Going off what you said, it shows how Bush is a "true" conservative: that old adage about them being one step behind liberals.

@31 and @34 I've seen that too. The man very well may be a fraud. Keep in mind too the grand hoopla against him just over talking about enforcing our laws against illegal aliens.

@41 Nate, I think if those that are focused on immigration had a real shot of winning the nomination they'd be subject to every slander and attack the media, Left, and the cucks have in store.

@44 MOAR! 500 lbs MOAR!
Done with it all September 15, 2015 12:07 PM: Josh: "Rand Paul. Because he's the only candidate endorsed by Ron Paul."

Rand isn't even showing up on the radar anymore. Seems to be running a stealth candidacy.

Josh is the buggy whip salesman out standing in the road stopping tin lizzies telling everyone they need to trade their Model T's in and buy horse drawn wagons while they are still available.

'These cars are a passing fad. Henry Ford is not a capitalist. He failed third grade. Buy wagons and buggy whips. Henry Ford talks back to his mom.' - Josh
Elder Son September 15, 2015 12:08 PM: Trump can't build a wall. Only congress can build a wall. No wall. I'm pretty sure Trump knows this. So should everyone else. Trump is appealing to emotion, not reality.

What Trump should be saying, is elect me for president, and if congress creates a Bill to build a wall, I will sign it.
Done with it all September 15, 2015 12:08 PM: Josh "if Trump wins, I am considering suicide."

Go Trump Go! Go Trump Go! Go Trump Go!
Salt September 15, 2015 12:11 PM: The run for the nomination should be featured on a game show. "Survivor", or perhaps "Big Brother", might be a useful format.
GeronL September 15, 2015 12:12 PM: Donald Trump is a liberal pretending to be conservative. A loudmouth, narcisstic blowhard, a cartoonish buffoon, a con-man, a scam artist, a celebutard through and through. There is nothing "serious" about Donald Trump. A man who whines like a baby when he is asked a hard question ("If you were a tree...")

His first instincts are always on the far left.

He blamed Pamela Geller for the Garland terror attack, he said to ban the confederate flag, he thinks there is reason for public funding of Planned Murderhood, he says conservatives should get over gay marriage (and other culture war stuff), he was anti-gun not too long ago too.

He flip-flops like a fish on the bank. His first reaction to the refugee thing was to take them to America. Just like his immigration plan still lets most of the illegal aliens back in ahead of those doing it legally.

He is on the left in the culture wars. His 3rd wifre is a porn star and he even suggested his daughter for Playboy and "joked" more than once that he would date her. (eeew)

He has been an insider buying political favors from politicians for decades, he boasts about his cronyism. He supported TARP, the bailouts and "stimulus" and praised Obama for "saving the economy." He built an "empire" on eminent domain.

He supports Kelo, ENDA and national socialist healthcare.

Trump University was 100% a scam.

There is nothing here that a serious conservative would support. I am not abandoning my principles to support this fraud. Ever.
Mike M. September 15, 2015 12:13 PM: In several ways, the GOP Establishment has brought this upon themselves.

The most obvious way is, of course, their failure to respond to the problems. That "go along to get along" attitude might work inside the Beltway, but it goes over like a lead balloon in the rest of the country.

But there's another problem. Over the last twenty years, the GOP Establishment has tried to crush the Populist Libertarian wing of the party. This was particularly on display in the 2010 cycle. Tea Party candidates who lost a primary would reliably back the party's nominee in the general election, while Patrician Plutocrat candidates would not infrequently run third party campaigns AGAINST the Tea Party nominee.

This meant that a 2000-2010 Reagan equivalent never emerged. Reagan was loathed by the GOP Establishment...but they could not deny that a two-term governor of California didn't have the experience to be President. But now...if you strangle your Reagans in the crib, you get a Trump.

Maybe the GOP Establishment is too stupid to remain the Establishment.
Student in Blue September 15, 2015 12:13 PM: Trump can't build a wall. Only congress can build a wall.

Ye gads!

A presidential candidate promising something only Congress can do!

I think if he factors it as pertaining to Executive branch of enforcing laws and finds the money for it, he could do it whether or not Congress "liked" it.
Redd September 15, 2015 12:18 PM: @#63, YIH: I bet Rush likes Trump, but would rather someone else be the nominee (like Maricon JEB). That said, Rush can't really attack Trump either - it would start driving away his audience.

No so. Not at all. Face is, Trump and Rush are personal friends, or at least are golfing buddies. The more important question is whether Rush's analysis of the Trump phenomenon is correct.

It is.
Doom September 15, 2015 12:19 PM: Serious? Only if he is, actually, indeed, serious. If not then his bid isn't. Debate all you wish, time will tell if he was just goofing or trip-fucking the GOP. Not that, with this GOP, it matters. Then again, he may have lit a fire that someone will claim if he backs out. Time will tell, nothing else. You aren't exactly a prophet on these things.

If I had to say? I'd give it 3:9 that he stays, stays true, and plays... to the office or failure. Once in office I give him about 2:9 that he will stay the course. Still, that's vastly better than the GOP who are just barely better than Dems.

Yeah, politically, America is screwed.
BunE22 September 15, 2015 12:20 PM: @162

I'd like to see a Jurassic Park outer wall with cameras mounted on the poles so I can tune in to the live cam and watch climbers get electrocuted.

But that's me.
Dexter September 15, 2015 12:21 PM: Trump can't build a wall. Only congress can build a wall.

We can easily see how, over the past eight years, the president has been totally restrained and kept in check by his inability to do things that only Congress can do. Trump's presidency will be just like that.
Whitey McWhite September 15, 2015 12:21 PM: 156. David-093: "The Left understands this, or at least the smarter ones do: you don't convince people but going to the extreme, you work them slowly."

For this to work you need two columns: the fast one heads for a far edge of the Overton window and tries to extend it in your favor; the slow one is gradualist and reaps official rewards such as political office. The false mainstream column denies being beholden to the fast column, but never punishes it and gives it a lot of patronage. (And gradually incorporates its aims, arguments and symbols.)

This model is used only by the left, because only the left wants to win.

The false right is beholden to a "donor class" that's mainly Jewish and leftist on social issues. It wants to move the Overton window in favor of the big donors, whose interests are like the interests of Democrat big donors, and it wants to move the window as much as possible to the detriment of straight, white, Christian men. It does this by purging rightists (on the National Review model) and by back-shooting them at every opportunity, joining forces with the left to repudiate alleged racists like Jason Richwine.

(It also gradually incorporates the aims, arguments and symbols of the activist fringe left, making everything from homosexual marriage to open borders a "conservative" value, changing the key arguments to social liberal ones (for example opposing Islam because it conflicts with feminism), and ratifying leftist symbols like Martin Luther King.)

It's not a (genuine) fight; it's a dance. The left leads and the right is led.

It's reasonable to expect that any "mainstream" rightist who is genuine (that is who wants to win in the long run) will show this by not directing fire at right "extremists," and preferably giving them a lot of patronage, just as the official left does.

We don't know where Trump will go, but every curse that is directed his way from definitely corrupt people like the neocon crowd at National Review is a hopeful sign.
Whitey McWhite September 15, 2015 12:24 PM: 181. BunE22: "But that's me."

No it's not.
Elder Son September 15, 2015 12:24 PM: @178

Again, that is a lot of wishful thinking. If congress doesn't want that wall built, there will be no wall. As far as finding the money for it, he will have to borrow it. We'll see how serious the people are about a wall when the next congress and senate elections come around.
Anonymous September 15, 2015 12:25 PM: One thing I think those who assume he is bluffing are missing: politicians are affected much more strongly by their wives than most people think. And look what is happening in Melania Trump's homeland.

And then we have iYeb!'s wife. I'm pretty sure iYeb! is sunk, Establishment or no Establishment. Which is why I suspect they're pushing Morgan Freeman -- I mean, Ben Carson -- now.
Elder Son September 15, 2015 12:26 PM: @182

Yeah, amazing how congress can find its backbone when it WANTS to.
Anonymous September 15, 2015 12:26 PM: @ Sean - Actually, Trump has been very clear on how he expects Mexico and Mexicans to build a border wall. From his website's position paper on immigration:

"Mexico must pay for the wall and, until they do, the United States will, among other things: impound all remittance payments derived from illegal wages; increase fees on all temporary visas issued to Mexican CEOs and diplomats (and if necessary cancel them); increase fees on all border crossing cards – of which we issue about 1 million to Mexican nationals each year (a major source of visa overstays); increase fees on all NAFTA worker visas from Mexico (another major source of overstays); and increase fees at ports of entry to the United States from Mexico [Tariffs and foreign aid cuts are also options]. We will not be taken advantage of anymore."
Josh (the sexiest thing here) September 15, 2015 12:26 PM: politicians are affected much more strongly by their wives than most people think

That doesn't bode well for Ted Cruz.
Vetinari September 15, 2015 12:27 PM: 167. Sean

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/immigration-reform

"Mexico must pay for the wall and, until they do, the United States will, among other things: impound all remittance payments derived from illegal wages;"
Unknown September 15, 2015 12:28 PM: I look at it this way: Trump is my revenge against all the people who forced me to live through the Obama era. At this point, I almost don't care what he does, as long as he does a good job as destroyer, and busts up everything that elitists care about.

My next wish, Sarah Palin as secretary of state. Just because of the screams.
Doug September 15, 2015 12:28 PM: Either Vox has had a lobotomy, or he cares as much about the USA as he does the Hugo Awards (guessing the latter).
Whitey McWhite September 15, 2015 12:30 PM: 177. Mike M.: good points, but I don't agree that the visible establishment is stupid. It's bought.
Anonymous September 15, 2015 12:31 PM: Remittances not only are billions a year, they are *vital* to Mexico's civil peace and security. In short, we have them by the balls, if we have the balls to do it.
James Dixon September 15, 2015 12:32 PM: > Trump can't build a wall. Only congress can build a wall.

Only Congress can fund Obamacare. Only Congress has the authority to make immigration laws. Only Congress has oversight of the EPA.

Funny how none of that seems to have made a difference. He can simply take half of Immigration's budget and build a wall with it. Then ask Congress what they're going to do about it, just like Obama has done.
rycamor September 15, 2015 12:32 PM: 164. Rabbi B September 15, 2015 11:58 AM
"The point isn't Trump but what is being revealed in the electorate."

This. Well said. The question is who has the intestinal fortitude and resilience to capitalize on the sentiment.

Unfortunately, no serious players. Yet. I wish Rand had the cajones and the persona to pull it off, but he doesn't. The problem here is the classic divide Vox has been lecturing us on for the past couple years. Dialectic arguments will only sway the few. Ron Paul and to a lesser degree Rand are consummate dialectic arguers, which is why they poll well among The Ilk, but it's going to take a real populist to sway the country. Finding a serious thinker with the expansive personality and rhetorical command to sway a population is a tall, tall order.
Student in Blue September 15, 2015 12:32 PM: Again, that is a lot of wishful thinking. If congress doesn't want that wall built, there will be no wall.

Right, because like Dexter said, the last 8 years have proved how totally restrained the presidential office is by Congress.

As far as finding the money for it, he will have to borrow it.

Tariffs. Hell, funnel that money police "confiscate" towards the wall fund. Or even Trump could just fund the thing himself.

We'll see how serious the people are about a wall when the next congress and senate elections come around.

If Congress and Senate really listened to the people as much as they should, do you think Trump would have taken off anywhere near as much as he had?
clk September 15, 2015 12:32 PM: @129 "It would destroy the faith of tens of millions in the electoral system who still believe in it"

Should we add anarchist to your long list of character traits ? .. :)

I think this is the real support for Trump -- he is the "none of the above" candidate -- we think so little of the establishement candidates that we would rather elect a idiot than any of them.

We are enthusiastic for the hope that Trump might not be lying about everything ... do you know how low we have gone as a electorate and a people .. how far have our leaders fallen from the likes of Madison, Jefferson, Washington, Hamilton ....or even Rossevelt, Truman .Eisenhower ..... Richard Nixon...

Maybe it is time to hit the reset button ...
GreenEyedJinn September 15, 2015 12:34 PM: In 2005, while I was still on Active Duty, I had the opportunity to be in Israel for a counter-terrorism conference. During part of that visit, I spent a half-day traveling along the Israeli side of the their security wall & fence.
When I asked why certain sections were solid walls, while others were only tall fences, the difference was explained that the solid portions were only in places where Palestinian villages had a direct line of sight into Israeli settlements. You see, the solid sections were there to prevent PA sniper fire -- which was reduced from a nearly daily occurrence before the wall was built to nearly zero afterwards.
Yes, we should ask the Israelis about how a wall should work.
rycamor September 15, 2015 12:34 PM: @192. Jourdan September 15, 2015 12:31 PM
Remittances not only are billions a year, they are *vital* to Mexico's civil peace and security. In short, we have them by the balls, if we have the balls to do it.

Remittances are vital to just about the whole Caribbean. Problem is, the bankers and moneychangers are making some very sweet coin off those remittances.

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Tuesday, September 15, 2015

The only serious candidate

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