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Sunday, November 15, 2015

Lessons in Rhetoric: Swedish edition

Markus from Sweden @the_Markunator
@voxday So you're glad that Breivik did what he did? You're fucking despicable.

Vox Day @voxday
Why do you support Swedish women being raped and murdered by invaders? You're despicable and a coward.

Markus from Sweden @the_Markunator
Why do you support the mass murder of innocent teenagers?

Vox Day @voxday
Why do you support Swedish women being raped and murdered by invaders? You're despicable and a coward.

Markus from Sweden @the_Markunator
You are a pathetic racist fascist cunt.

Vox Day @voxday
You are a testosterone-free evolutionary dead end. Why do you sacrifice Swedish women to orcs?

Markus from Sweden @the_Markunator
Men of colour are not orcs.

Vox Day @voxday
Yes, they are. See, here's a picture and everything!

Markus from Sweden @the_Markunator
You are just sad.

Vox Day @voxday
You're an aspie who still lives with his parents. That's called "psychological projection". Also, the train is fine.

Markus from Sweden @the_Markunator
I'm not a fascist shit, so I'm better than you, and what train are you talking about?

Vox Day @voxday
The train is fine, Markus. The train is fine.

Markus from Sweden @the_Markunator
What train?!

Vox Day @voxday
The train that is fine.

Labels: ,

113 Comments:

Blogger Rabbi B November 15, 2015 8:36 PM  

It's like these people are hard wired to react the way they do. They're so incredibly predictable.

It's like hitting their knee with a little hammer, you know their leg is going to jerk in spite of themselves . . . Every.Single.Time.

Great illustration. Instructive as usual.


Blogger Mr.MantraMan November 15, 2015 8:42 PM  

No doubt totally taken back by your not going on the defense

Blogger VD November 15, 2015 8:45 PM  

Needless to say, he soon stopped tweeting at me. Never back down, never retreat, never answer their questions. Mirror their language but intensify it in some way.

Anonymous Viidad November 15, 2015 8:46 PM  

Also the train is fine.

I laughed out loud. Had to explain the joke to my wife.

Blogger Mme Scherzo November 15, 2015 8:46 PM  

The train is fine, but the bridge is out.

Blogger haus frau November 15, 2015 8:47 PM  

I'm stealing that meme. Made me giggle like a highschool mean girl.

Blogger Dave November 15, 2015 8:48 PM  

Yeah where are all da Swedish womens at? They're all dyeing their hair color not blonde and wondering who keeps leaving the doors open.

Blogger Harsh November 15, 2015 8:55 PM  

I love how they think that if they pile enough expletives on top of "fascist" it will hurt Vox's feelings.

Blogger Crude November 15, 2015 8:55 PM  

I love how they think that if they pile enough expletives on top of "fascist" it will hurt Vox's feelings.

Yeah. 'Racist' is starting to wear off as a slur to even care about, but 'fascist'? That shit's been a joke for years.

I guess in their circles it's scary.

Blogger VD November 15, 2015 9:03 PM  

Notice too that he committed THREE serious PC offenses.

1. Called me a "cunt".
2. Equated orcs with men of colour.
3. Implicitly admitted that Swedish women are being sacrificed.

Blogger Rabbi B November 15, 2015 9:04 PM  

"The train that is fine."

Nice flourish. I can see his head exploding.

What train?!?!?!?!?!?!?? Classic.

Anonymous Jerome Horowitz November 15, 2015 9:07 PM  

I have to admit, after reading that “confusation”, I chortled.

Blogger AmyJ November 15, 2015 9:14 PM  

He isn't bothered at all about the letting invaders rape his country women accusation. What a shitlord.

Blogger Rabbi B November 15, 2015 9:16 PM  

@13.

He would have to understand the accusation first. It was clear he was not able to keep up.

Blogger Groot November 15, 2015 9:17 PM  

"Markus from Sweden
"@the_Markunator

"Swedish guy with Asperger syndrome who lives with his parents. I'm a liberal, a film enthusiast, a reader and a gamer."

Never trust a Scandinavian without at least two k's in his name.

Blogger Rabbi B November 15, 2015 9:17 PM  

The poor bastard was too dazed and confused.

Blogger kurt9 November 15, 2015 9:17 PM  

This guy is really so obsessed with not being considered racist that he is willing to accept the raping of women in his country as collateral damage.

Ubfuckingbelievable!

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 November 15, 2015 9:23 PM  

I don't always like what I see here, but sometimes its *damn* funny.

Blogger White Devil November 15, 2015 9:25 PM  

Pinned Tweet from the account: Attention: if you call me beta, cuck, SJW, white knight, mangina, etc., you're not insulting me - you're letting me know you're a moron. ;)
You can raise the voting age to thirty, but you can't prevent children from voting.

Blogger Jack Jones November 15, 2015 9:27 PM  

Good take down of Simon Schama by Rod Liddle.

Schama another leftie living off the British television license paper while sneering at many of them who would be against the invasion.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rCJN7_IiFM

Blogger Rabbi B November 15, 2015 9:27 PM  

@17 kurt9

He was also very concerned about men of color being compared to orcs.

***wipes away tear***

Blogger Cecil Henry November 15, 2015 9:28 PM  

'The train is fine' ---- had to google that one!!!

Will be very useful against the dark side!!

Why is this guy obsessed with not being racist???

Selfishness: He is concerned with his self-image, his status over others (other Whites really-which tells you something too) that he will destroy them, ignore truth and dispense with justice.

It is self-aggrandizement in the most manipulative and dishonest manner.

Few people will call him out for it directly--- Hence it continues with the SJW's

Blogger Jack Jones November 15, 2015 9:28 PM  

My last comment should be "license payer."

Blogger Groot November 15, 2015 9:32 PM  

Terrorism has a religion. It's burning in your mind, 'cause you know what I'm saying.

Blogger Harsh November 15, 2015 9:34 PM  

Why is this guy obsessed with not being racist???

He probably thinks if he's not a racist, it's okay if he's a pedophile.

Blogger Cecil Henry November 15, 2015 9:37 PM  

Oh yes: Orcs have feelings too.

Never forgot that.

I feel a micro aggression coming on..... in 3,2,1....


My first new years resolution for 2016:

MORE Macroaggressions and FEWER Microaggressions

Just to help the SJW's out.

Blogger White Devil November 15, 2015 9:38 PM  

SwedeCuckMarkus @JohnCobalt I'm in no way strawmanning him. Look at the top tweet. He's glad Breivik did what he did.

RabidSeaLion @the_Markunator No he implies that Breivik understand the risk of islam extremism to a modern society. The rest is your imagination.

I wonder if SJW's succumb to the narrative partly because they are deficient in useful imagination. It would explain why they have so much trouble with art and story, both in its creation and interpretation.

Blogger Lana J November 15, 2015 9:40 PM  

Pinned Tweet from the account: Attention: if you call me beta, cuck, SJW, white knight, mangina, etc., you're not insulting me - you're letting me know you're a moron. ;)

Does he happen to write for National Review?

Anonymous BigGaySteve November 15, 2015 9:41 PM  

Dallas snuck in a word change to allow men in women's bathrooms with no public notice.
http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2015/11/10/dallas-may-add-transgender-people-to-anti-discrimination-ordinance/

"The move passed unanimously. Supporters of the update called it just a matter of paperwork."

OT: Tonight on Madame Revisionist History Secretary Hillary they are defending a cop killer.

TNB http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/11/15/black-activist-double-white-hate-fparis-hashtag/

Blogger Lana J November 15, 2015 9:43 PM  

I saw this in real time or shortly thereafter and when Vox said "The Train Is Fine". I was laughing so hard someone asked me what on earth was so funny. It's a bit tricky to explain.

Blogger Hoots November 15, 2015 9:45 PM  

ZH is going medium retard by claiming false flag on the Paris attack based on nothing more than an alleged fake passport. Don't they know you should almost never go medium retard?

Blogger ZhukovG November 15, 2015 9:48 PM  

Perhaps he is obsessed with not being a racist, because he is a racist.

Blogger Billy November 15, 2015 9:55 PM  

These are sick fucking people. Liberalism, Zionist, Marxist, SWJ's whichever word one uses to describe them. They are the face of evil in the modern world.

Blogger White Devil November 15, 2015 9:57 PM  

Perhaps he is obsessed with not being a racist, because he is a racist.
That or his boyfriend is a migrant.

Blogger Cail Corishev November 15, 2015 10:00 PM  

This guy is really so obsessed with not being considered racist that he is willing to accept the raping of women in his country as collateral damage.

Well, they're sure as heck not having sex with him, so you can see why he might not care.

Blogger Ashley Letterman November 15, 2015 10:06 PM  

When someone on the internet says something that is clearly a reference, and I don't get it (such as this train thing), I go straight to google. I don't furiously demand that person explain it to me. It's a pretty small thing on top of all the other problems on display and admissions made, but the sense of learned helplessness is kind of interesting, as a representation of his entire worldview.

Blogger The Other Robot November 15, 2015 10:18 PM  

I like the reference to Blazing Saddles.

Mel Brooks would be proud. NOT!

Blogger KCFleming November 15, 2015 10:20 PM  

The train comment is funny even if you don't get the reference. Unless you have Aspbergers.
Then its hilarious.

Blogger Phillip George November 15, 2015 10:38 PM  

Put this in perspective, Aurelie Chatelain's killler is being fed and cared for by SJW's.

He the one who was going to massacre random kafir but then accidentally shot himself and called the kafir to look after his injuries.

You see, killers can rely on SJW's - they are cut from the same fabric.

Anonymous kfg November 15, 2015 10:39 PM  

Tell Peter Hultqvist I want to drive the train.

Blogger Geir Balderson November 15, 2015 10:42 PM  

The bottom line is that good old Markus has to live with more and more Orcs that arrive daily to desolate and rape his land.

As Nelson Muntz would say,,,,,,"HA HA!"

Anonymous polyhedron November 15, 2015 10:53 PM  

This comic seems apropos.

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales November 15, 2015 11:08 PM  

@42

Considering the worldview of Penny Arcade's creator, it'd be more apropos if the Orc had said creators impaled on his spear.

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales November 15, 2015 11:09 PM  

@44

Should have said 'creators.'

Anonymous Scintan November 15, 2015 11:12 PM  

Pinned Tweet from the account: Attention: if you call me beta, cuck, SJW, white knight, mangina, etc., you're not insulting me - you're letting me know you're a moron. ;)

Yes, Markus, they are insulting you. If you can't figure that out, you are the moron.

Blogger Badmojo November 15, 2015 11:12 PM  

I had to google "The train is fine" too and that was awesome. Both the video itself and this moron's reaction.

I can almost hear him muttering "what train..?" for the next few days.

Blogger GK Chesterton November 15, 2015 11:25 PM  

So serious question, given the moral authority needed in 4th Gen War wasn't Breivik a loss (and yes I realize that the thread itself is about rhetoric)? After all he did attack what were essentially non-combatants that could be his future allies and hardened the resolve of the opponent.

I'm not sure arguing about him is strategically useful. I agree that the women being raped arguments are useful.

Blogger Sherwood family November 15, 2015 11:29 PM  

Okay. I had never seen the train reference before and looked it up. That was hilarious and is so apropos of the the whole exchange. Brilliant work! I am still laughing.

Blogger aaron November 15, 2015 11:51 PM  

@31: What do you mean "Medium Retard"? Hollande declared this an Act of War, which is a key clause in NATO's defense alliance treaty. He will use it to attack in Syria while ignoring the domestic issue (as he has already). If Russia gets in the way, NATO will rush to France's defense and you have WWIII. So, if it's not a false flag, then it is accomplishing the same result as one.

My doomsday scenario involves the US sending troops over to "defend" Europe and "refugees" back across the Atlantic in the empty ships. How elegantly destructive. Somehow I can still see this happening, even if US troops aren't involved, and esp. if Europe decides to crack down on the "refugees" they have invited in.

Anonymous jon November 15, 2015 11:58 PM  

"When someone on the internet says something that is clearly a reference, and I don't get it (such as this train thing), I go straight to google. I don't furiously demand that person explain it to me. It's a pretty small thing on top of all the other problems on display and admissions made, but the sense of learned helplessness is kind of interesting, as a representation of his entire worldview."

Good point. I hadn't seen this reference before either, but it only took about 5 secs of looking on the interwebs. That he would continually plead with Vox for an explanation doesn't say much for him on a lot of levels.

Blogger automatthew November 15, 2015 11:59 PM  

I don't always like what I see here

We don't care, nancyboy.

Blogger automatthew November 16, 2015 12:03 AM  

GKC: So serious question, given the moral authority needed in 4th Gen War wasn't Breivik a loss (and yes I realize that the thread itself is about rhetoric)? After all he did attack what were essentially non-combatants that could be his future allies and hardened the resolve of the opponent.

You have [at least] two false premises:

* what were essentially non-combatants

* that could be his future allies

You've commented here long enough that I know you're not a dummy. Are you actually not aware of the nature of the people and the gathering that AB attacked?

Anonymous Takin' a Look November 16, 2015 12:29 AM  

O/T, you know the batalan club? The owners sold it two months ago after 40 years on....

.....September 11, lolololzzz
http://www.timesofisrael.com/jewish-owners-recently-sold-pariss-bataclan-theater-where-is-killed-dozens/

Blogger Were-Puppy November 16, 2015 12:36 AM  

@18 White Knight Leo #0368
I don't always like what I see here, but sometimes its *damn* funny.
---

One of these days you'll read something on here and have a loud evil laughter about it. Then you'll say to yourself, "Damn, I sound like I belong in the Legion of Doom from the Superfriends!"

Blogger Phillip George November 16, 2015 1:01 AM  

good question, what's the insurance pay out on an act of terror against the Bataclan? If it's big bucks, instant cash, the case is proven beyond reasonable doubt.
But Islam is very very bad even if it was only the blunt instrument in these events. That's the pill Jim Stone can't swallow.

anyway, let's not get all apocalyptic, The end may not be for several months.

Blogger FrankNorman November 16, 2015 1:02 AM  

Initially, I thought the train reference was to the Nazi death camps - ie they are going to kill you, and you are too dumb to realize that.

Finding the Onion article... ouch.

Blogger Were-Puppy November 16, 2015 1:08 AM  

OT: Can anyone explain the significance of this?

Anonymous declares war

I'm still reading the 4GW books, and am trying to place where this would fit in, if it's not a joke or a hoax.

Blogger Daniel November 16, 2015 1:16 AM  

Why do you sacrifice Swedish women to orcs?

"Hey, how was I supposed to know they were orcs? They looked like men of colour to me!"

Blogger Cee November 16, 2015 1:22 AM  

@57

The significance of it is Anonymous is loud and can moderately inconvenience those they dislike.

I doubt it is a hoax but I also doubt much will come of it. They have not yet managed to topple Scientology.

Blogger Peter Pan November 16, 2015 1:57 AM  

This was just masterful. Brutal, beautiful, and masterful. And damned funny.

Blogger TheRedSkull November 16, 2015 2:13 AM  

Too bad the Warhammer 2016 film is pozzed.

They took a franchise in which each species eternally wars with the other and made it... anti-racist?

How can anyone not grasp that Orc and human are a zero-sum game? SIZE MATTERS.

Suddenly I feel more positive about the LoTR adaptation.

Seriously, the only reason anti-racism works as a pretext is that all humans that couldn't interbreed with male homo sapiens sapiens have been conveniently eliminated, most recently the Tasmanians and the other (suppressed) race of Aboriginals. You still have a chance to wave goodbye to the Bushmen - take a photo, bang one for good luck.

Anonymous Rolf November 16, 2015 2:13 AM  

@56 - yup. Same mistake here. Did not get the ref. Yes. Ouch. Talk about mal-ordered priorities.

Now that I do, I think I'll be using that line in a few debates down the road. Thanks, Vox.

Blogger TheRedSkull November 16, 2015 2:16 AM  

Black men rape/assault 100 white women per day. #BlackSizeMatters

Blogger JP November 16, 2015 2:31 AM  

Wait, does this mean he thinks orcs actually exist?

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY November 16, 2015 2:31 AM  

"Two can't walk together lest they be agreed"
Truth. from our Lord and Saviour. These pissants that yap " diversity is our stronghth " are nutty as a sack of squiurrel turds,

Blogger hightecrebel November 16, 2015 3:05 AM  

@61

Warcraft, so not quite the same. Still screwing up the setting & plot, but not as badly as if it was Warhammer. Seems like they're taking the WC3 Orcs and putting them in the WC1 storyline.

Blogger Phillip George November 16, 2015 3:21 AM  

a couple of hundred non hijab wearers can be gunned down in broad daylight but the SJW principal concern is hate speech. When delusional runs that deep there isn't a conversation happening,
I keep coming back here because it is a rare beacon of sanity in a black landscape.

Blogger Legion of Logic November 16, 2015 3:58 AM  

It's interesting, a few years ago I picked up on the fact that New Atheists would run away complaining of me being a big meanie for responding to them in exactly the same tone that they employed, and have kept it up ever since. It appears that this strategy works even better against progressives.

Blogger Eric I. Gatera. November 16, 2015 5:25 AM  

The train that is fine.
You just killed me. HAAHAHAHAHAHA

Blogger Cataline Sergius November 16, 2015 5:49 AM  

@10
3. Implicitly admitted that Swedish women are being sacrificed.

I use that one all the time with gun cuntroll advocates.

"Just admit it. You would rather see a woman brutally raped and murdered in the street than successfully defend herself with a gun"

The implied answer is always, yes. And then I pound on the nail. Although it's interesting to watch the ways they try to wriggle around their answer.

OpenID simplytimothy November 16, 2015 6:01 AM  


1.Never back down,
2. never retreat,
3. never answer their questions.
4. Mirror their language but intensify it in some way.



1 and 2 are down cold now thanks to your lessons. 3 and 4 are next up.

The key for me is to stop fixating on the question; it is a tendency that I have that blows my s.a. and results in counter-productive side-threads.

I think I will make a habit of speaking those points out-loud before responding or tweeting. That might help me break the dialectic habit.

thanks again, Vox.

Blogger Steve, the Dark Ninja of Mockery November 16, 2015 6:14 AM  

The train is fine

You guys crack me up.

Do you really think the Supreme Dark Lord was merely quoting The Onion for lulz?

No way. That was some mystical Derren Brown jedi mind control shit.

VD: The train is fine.

Markus the Turnip: LOLWUT?

VD: The train is fine.

Markus: What... what's happening to me?

VD: The train is fine.

Markus: Aaaarrggghhh! Hellppp... meeee....

VD: The train is fine.

Blogger Steve, the Dark Ninja of Mockery November 16, 2015 6:43 AM  

Srsly.

It's not the train you should be worried about.

Blogger ScuzzaMan November 16, 2015 8:25 AM  

A Finer Tit Shine

Beautifully done.

Blogger FP November 16, 2015 8:44 AM  

We must pray for the fallen snickers wrappers.

Blogger Were-Puppy November 16, 2015 9:46 AM  

Had some rhetoric fun last night on a BLM article on brietbart.

BLM - Bacon Lettuce Mayo - yes, it matters
BLM - Black Loves Muslims

Blogger Were-Puppy November 16, 2015 9:48 AM  

Oh, and I forgot, was posting this one a lot
#WeDontCare

It seems in the case of BLM, they are starving for more attention, so indifference seems the best weapon to use in the rhetoric.

I'm working on my yellow belt in rhetoric :P

Anonymous Quartermaster November 16, 2015 9:50 AM  

Alas, for him, he is what he says he is not. He's also a coward.

Anonymous Whitey McWhite November 16, 2015 10:14 AM  

Instructive.

I had thought I had adjusted sufficiently, to shift far enough from reasoning when that shift was necessary. I wasn't even close. More practice needed.

Blogger Mme Scherzo November 16, 2015 10:37 AM  

The news is reporting that the train is fine. So it's official!
http://www.samhawken.com/?p=5207

Blogger GK Chesterton November 16, 2015 11:20 AM  

Automatthew I maintain that what he did harmed his objectives more than helped them. In Victoria there is a touching scene in which the Feminist marries a soldier of the Good Guys. That would have been impossible in Breivik's world where children could be targeted. In fact I really wish he had read Victoria first.

Blogger VD November 16, 2015 12:11 PM  

I maintain that what he did harmed his objectives more than helped them.

You're objectively wrong. Markku thought the same thing and he conceded the point over a year ago.

OpenID denektenorsk November 16, 2015 1:42 PM  

Didn't Star Trek TNG do an episode like this where Data has an emotion chip installed? If he's going to pick human emotions to emulate why SJWs?

Seriously though, "The Train is Fine" works on so many levels... especially if we consider Multiculturalism/Immigration to be the train.

Blogger Daniel November 16, 2015 1:50 PM  

Brevik's objectives:

1. "If you are going to be capable of executing such a bloody and horrendous operation, you need to work on your mind, your psyche, for years. We have seen from military traditions you cannot send an unprepared person into war."
2. "Commander of the Knights Templar Europe – we are organised in the anti-communistic and Norwegian resistance movement against the Islamisation of Europe and Norway."
3. "Your arrest will mark the initiation of the propaganda phase. Your trial offers you a stage to the world."

Check. Check. Check. Despite having to reduce his number of targets due to the challenges he faced in making bombs, Brevik absolutely achieved all of his objectives and more. He also had the additional luck of surviving the suicide mission to the luxury of Norway's weak judicial system. He gets to live and speak from the very platform that is as weak as his critiques indicate it is.

Anonymous Bob Gillespie November 16, 2015 2:27 PM  

Vox,

I'm with you on almost everything. Especially the refugee and immigration issues, and your views on the decline of Christendom.

That being said, and please hear this in the supportive spirit in which it is offered.... your seeming support of Anders Behring Breivik (a) turns people off and (b) **Most importantly** is, in my view, misguided.

Breivik violated one of the most basic rules of the just war theory which has provided the foundation for Western (nee Christian) military activity for the past millennium: you don't intentionally target or harm innocent non-combatants. There may be collateral damage, but you don't target them. He did.

Second, Breivik acted out of cowardice. Hear me out on this one. He had a beef to grind with the political elite running his country. Even if you were to agree with him, 100%, that they are wrong and deserve to be targeted (and that's a stretch, in my mind, but even if you did agree with him...) then he should have targeted them... not their children, miles and miles away from them. He didn't target them, because they are better guarded, more capable of protecting themselves, and more likely to be able to shoot back. Instead, like a coward, he attacked those who couldn't defend themselves.... children.

You do a disservice to true heroes and some of the excellent philosophical and political points that you make when you seem to stand up for cowards who violate the basic principles which underlie Western civilization (and which make it far preferable than the monstrous anarchy engulfing the middle east). Let's call him what he really is: a coward and no better than any other child murderer.

Blogger Floyd Looney November 16, 2015 2:49 PM  

If you read about the DNC debate you can see that the terrorist attack in Paris did not change the leftist ideology at all. Reality and facts have no impact on these people.

Anonymous A.B. Prosper November 16, 2015 3:04 PM  

Bob, the people at those camps were the Elite. All of them old enough to be held liable for treason and all voluntarily attending a training camp for traitors.

Immigration is Treason.

From a moral POV it was more moral than say a US solider shooting a member of the Hitler Youth since these people all chose to participate,

Also its war, if you aren't playing dirty, You lose. Lining up to be shot by elite security is stupid and fails to accomplish his goals.

Hitting softer but still valid targets does.

Understand that in a war of survival there can be no moderates and either the Nationalists win or their nation dies.

Game of Thrones rules are in play, You Play the Game, You Win or You Die.If you don't play the game, you die anyway.

So play the game.

Does this mean I like seeking my fellow Whites die, hell no.

I wish Brehvik could have found another way and could have avoiding killing anyone but at least to him and to many others that was impossible,

Why? The political system of the West highly dysfunctional and these nations have a limited time till they are destroyed,

If more violence can be avoided, great. I'm for it But if it can't, the Left will have brought that on themselves and their people.

Politely, where political conflict cannot be resolved non violently and where avoiding each other is impossible, conflict is inevitable.

Diversity +Proximity= Conflict


OpenID joshtheaspie November 16, 2015 3:54 PM  

I dunno, as a high functioning aspie myself, I can sort of see where the guy doing the newscast is coming from.

Obviously, the man who jumped on the tracks put the value of his life by jumping in front of an oncoming train as less than the value of the purse.

And since the value of the train is greater than that of the purse, the value of the train must also be greater than the life of the man who jumped in front of it, by that man's own priority ordering.

Lucky for the train indeed.

Of course it could just be that the guy that jumped in front of the train was a dumb beta who thought he could get the purse and get back up in time.

OpenID joshtheaspie November 16, 2015 4:13 PM  

After finishing watching the boring 'comedy' video:

Yyyyno. Ignore what I said above. It's just another 'Autists like trains and ignore the perspectives of others' joke.

Blogger VD November 16, 2015 4:22 PM  

Breivik violated one of the most basic rules of the just war theory which has provided the foundation for Western (nee Christian) military activity for the past millennium: you don't intentionally target or harm innocent non-combatants. There may be collateral damage, but you don't target them. He did.

Bob, do you see that book on the right sidebar, the one with the camo and olive-khaki? I suggest you read it. You're simply out of date. It's like complaining that soldiers don't line up wearing red coats anymore. There are no battlefields. There are no uniforms. There are no civilians.

You don't fight 4GW like the 1GW you would prefer.

You can seek noble defeat if you like. And don't pretend there would be less outrage if he'd taken out the Norwegian parliament. Your argument appears disingenuous in that regard.

Blogger VD November 16, 2015 4:24 PM  

Let's call him what he really is: a coward and no better than any other child murderer.

See, Bob, now you show your true face. You're a straight-up liar. Breivik killed fewer children than the average US drone pilot has; the average age of his victims was older than the average US soldier in Vietnam.

Blogger Cail Corishev November 16, 2015 4:35 PM  

If you read about the DNC debate you can see that the terrorist attack in Paris did not change the leftist ideology at all. Reality and facts have no impact on these people.

I think the left looked at 9/11 and said to itself: "Nearly all the American people believe that about 3000 of their fellow citizens were just killed by 19 Muslim terrorists (whether that's true or not, it's what most people believe). Yet we were able to get them to settle for some inconclusive military action in a country most of them couldn't find on a map, some moments of silence, and a whole lot of flag waving. Within a few days, they were letting us lecture them about how they'd better not look twice at any Muslims in their midst lest they seem racist, and within months they were letting us search 90-year-old Irish grandmothers in airports rather than profile. There's nothing we can't double-down on and get away with anymore."

Blogger Cail Corishev November 16, 2015 4:37 PM  

What's the obsession people have with putting the "coward" label on anyone whose actions they don't like? The word does have a meaning. Why not call him a cucumber? It would be just as relevant.

Blogger Floyd Looney November 16, 2015 5:04 PM  

@91 I did not realise the Viet Cong and North Vietnam were all children.

Anonymous Bob Gillespie November 16, 2015 6:09 PM  

Vox,

For the past 6000 years, mankind has fought to free itself from the ravages of disease and tyranny so that men would be free to pursue their own pleasure and goals. That is the fruit of the labor, genius and blood of millions of primarily white, Western men. And a primary step in that evolution that took us from shivering in caves next to a fire to manned spaceflight and beyond was the creation of a value system worth fighting for. When we trade that in for (as AB Prosper put it) GOT-style tactics, it takes Western Civilization back to being no better than what we're fighting against.

And yes, I reject your notion that we can't maintain broad moral imperatives and still win. Your assertion that my insistence on a broad, Christian moral framework (no intentional killing of innocents) is analogous to using outdated military tactics (lining up in ranks to fire volleys) is, frankly, beneath you. You're smarter than that.

Cail, I'm not calling him a coward because I disagree with him, I'm calling him a coward because he bullied those who weren't able to protect themselves. If a child in 8th grade has a disagreement with another child in 8th grade, and goes and beats up his rival's 4th grade little brother, that's cowardice. He was afraid to fight the 8th grader, so he picked on someone smaller. That's what your "hero" Breverik did. Nothing noble about that.

Let's be sure that if we're forced to fight, it's for something worth fighting for.

And, not to belabor the point, for believing Christians there can't even be an argument - if you're a Christian you MUST operate within an objective moral framework. If you don't, then the word Christian loses all meaning.

Blogger IM2L844 November 16, 2015 6:38 PM  

https://sites.google.com/site/breivikmanifesto/2083

Blogger Danby November 16, 2015 7:22 PM  

@95 Bob Cuckchurchian
And a primary step in that evolution that took us from shivering in caves next to a fire to manned spaceflight and beyond was the creation of a value system worth fighting for. When we trade that in for (as AB Prosper put it) GOT-style tactics, it takes Western Civilization back to being no better than what we're fighting against.
Translation: Prior to the Korean War, there was no such thing as Western Civilization, nothing counts, because i said so, that's why."
Seriously, It wasn't our "value system" that made Whites pre-eminent. It was intelligence, work ethic, and sheer bloody-mindedness. The thirty-years war is proof enough of that. "But that was different! Whites were killing Whites then!"

Cail, I'm not calling him a coward because I disagree with him, I'm calling him a coward because he bullied those who weren't able to protect themselves. If a child in 8th grade has a disagreement with another child in 8th grade, and goes and beats up his rival's 4th grade little brother, that's cowardice. He was afraid to fight the 8th grader, so he picked on someone smaller. That's what your "hero" Breverik did. Nothing noble about that.
He killed a bunch of soldier-aged adults. My brother was being shot in Vietnam at a younger age than the great majority of these "children".

And, not to belabor the point, for believing Christians there can't even be an argument - if you're a Christian you MUST operate within an objective moral framework. If you don't, then the word Christian loses all meaning.
Translation: "If you disagree with me, you have NO moral framework, and you're not really a Christian!"
Your "objective moral framework" is not mine. Mine, for instance, is not reflexively stupid and suicidal.
Go peddle your "Surely you can be better than that" bullshit somewhere else. This situation is going to end in civil war in Europe. If those words don't scare you, you're a fatuous loser. Of course, you are one, even if it does scare you, so no matter. We'd like that not to happen.

And finally, we don't care.

Anonymous Bob Gillespie November 16, 2015 7:53 PM  

Darby,

Thank you for a well-reasoned, well-written post free of personal attacks. Your logic came through loud and clear. And yes, Christianity requires belief in objective rights and wrongs, and an objective (read: given by God) morality, whether you like it or not. You can declare, "I'm a Christian and I'm going to kill innocent people because my personal morality demands it/ I believe it is self-preservation / I am the arbiter of my own morality" but it doesn't make it so.

Frankly, the truth is that all of Christendom relied on a single moral arbiter for 1500 of the past 2000 years, and that arbiter was the doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church. No one disputed the RCC's right to dictate objective moral norms. One could argue that the fact that people with your views can call themselves "Christian" without being laughed out of Church is a direct result of the Protestant Reformation.

Your brother went to Vietnam armed with a Rifle, intending to kill. Nothing wrong with that, I would argue preventing the spread of Communism may very well have been justified. But he knew what he was getting into. Whether they were 15 or 22, the kids (and yes, I'm 50 years old, so I get to call them kids, even if they were 22) at that camp were unarmed, and didn't think they were combatants, in any sense of the word. I know your type, Danby... you're the type that teaches your kids how to throw a good punch, and they how to kick their opponents when they're on the ground, because #4GW, dude! Breverik threw a sucker punch. You support that. Good on you.

Blogger VD November 16, 2015 8:18 PM  

What's the obsession people have with putting the "coward" label on anyone whose actions they don't like? The word does have a meaning. Why not call him a cucumber? It would be just as relevant.

It's meant to indicate their very important disapproval. See, others will refrain from doing it because this very important person will call them a coward if they do. It's just narcissistic rhetoric.

When we trade that in for (as AB Prosper put it) GOT-style tactics, it takes Western Civilization back to being no better than what we're fighting against.

You're a moron. I mean that literally. You do not distinguish between tactics and objectives. You also don't understand that without resorting to the necessary tactics, Western Civilization will be destroyed.

And yes, I reject your notion that we can't maintain broad moral imperatives and still win.

Yes, I know. And some people insist that the U.S. won the Vietnam war too. That doesn't make it any less stupid.

Your assertion that my insistence on a broad, Christian moral framework (no intentional killing of innocents) is analogous to using outdated military tactics (lining up in ranks to fire volleys) is, frankly, beneath you. You're smarter than that.

It is. You clearly are not smart enough to grasp that. You're a liar and a moron.

I'm not calling him a coward because I disagree with him, I'm calling him a coward because he bullied those who weren't able to protect themselves.

As I said, you're liar. Your appeal to Christian morality is laughable because you are so dishonest. Breivik is the precise opposite of a coward. You're also ignoring the fact that Utoya wasn't even his first target. You don't attack soft targets instead of hard targets because you're a coward, you do it because they are VULNERABLE.

Your arguments are just insanely stupid. You might as well say that we should all be Real Men like Bob and give the enemy a good firm talking to.

Whether they were 15 or 22, the kids (and yes, I'm 50 years old, so I get to call them kids, even if they were 22) at that camp were unarmed, and didn't think they were combatants, in any sense of the word

Oh, boo hoo. As if the "kids" at the Paris concert hall were armed or thought they were combatants. We just published a book explaining that this is what war now is. Sure, it would be nice if everyone dressed up in redcoats and took turns shooting at each other, but that form of war is now dead. For crying out loud, more civilians died in WWII than soldiers. The fact that modern war is not what Bob finds acceptable is utterly irrelevant.

It is what it is. Deal with it.

Blogger Danby November 16, 2015 9:39 PM  

Thank you for a well-reasoned, well-written post free of personal attacks. Your logic came through loud and clear. And yes, Christianity requires belief in objective rights and wrongs, and an objective (read: given by God) morality, whether you like it or not. You can declare, "I'm a Christian and I'm going to kill innocent people because my personal morality demands it/ I believe it is self-preservation / I am the arbiter of my own morality" but it doesn't make it so.
You come in here slinging around accusations of unChristianity, savagery, and other grandiose nonsense, and then get pouty cause someone called you on it? Fuck, what a pussy.
Define 'innocent', please, you unctuous bastard. the attendees of the young Commies workshop in Norway were training to destroy the national character, Christianity, economy, and Western Values of the Norwegian people. That makes them combatants, just like Commie agitators in Petrograd in 1918, or Brownshirts in Munich in 1934. They haven't started on the violence yet, they tried that in the 1970s and it didn't work for them. Don't think that means they have really renounced it. They still preach Revolution. They've merely put it off till they think they can get away with it.

Frankly, the truth is that all of Christendom relied on a single moral arbiter for 1500 of the past 2000 years, and that arbiter was the doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church. No one disputed the RCC's right to dictate objective moral norms. One could argue that the fact that people with your views can call themselves "Christian" without being laughed out of Church is a direct result of the Protestant Reformation.
That's amusing, because I too am a Catholic, but, unlike you, I have pretty thorough understanding of the Church's teaching on war and violence. The Church has never endorsed the idea that one needs to treat all savages the same as civilized men, or that a society or nation cannot defend itself.

Your brother went to Vietnam armed with a Rifle, intending to kill.
My brother went to Vietnam intending to fix trucks.

Nothing wrong with that, I would argue preventing the spread of Communism may very well have been justified. But he knew what he was getting into. Whether they were 15 or 22, the kids (and yes, I'm 50 years old, so I get to call them kids, even if they were 22)...
They're kids cause I say they're kids, damnit! I can call anyone a kid if they're younger than me! And that makes attacking them extra evil! But only White communist count. Yellow Commies are fine to kill, but not White ones.

... at that camp were unarmed, and didn't think they were combatants, in any sense of the word.
I'm sure if you had asked them, most of them would have described themselves as warriors. So they felt safe in their safe space. And they didn't know what they were getting into, unlike those evil Yellow motherless bastards. Or, for that matter naive 16-year-old White kids. That makes them unassailable, gotcha.
Why are you so fucking racist, you evil shitlord?


I know your type, Danby... you're the type that teaches your kids how to throw a good punch, and they how to kick their opponents when they're on the ground, because #4GW, dude!
If your opponents adhere to the rules of civilized combat, so do you, and so do I. If they do not, I feel no compunction about returning the favor.Civilized men fight like civilized men. Mad dogs are shot in the street.

Breivik threw a sucker punch.
When the game in play is the knockout game, throwing a sucker punch is the winning move.

Seriously, guy, learn a bit before you start in like this, especially around here. You're not smart or well informed enough to pull this kind of shit. You think you're morally superior, all you are is stupid.

Anonymous Bob Gillespie November 16, 2015 10:18 PM  

So, to recap, Vox called me a moron, stupid, a liar, all more than once. His friend Danby resorted to calling me a pussy, an unctuous bastard (that's my favorite!), a racist and a shitlord.

Instead of debating the issue, you both resort to name calling... so much for being able to rely on your "superior" arguments, gentlemen. I'm sorry I hurt your tender feelings.

You know what they say, when you don't have a strong argument....

Anonymous Bob Gillespie November 16, 2015 10:20 PM  

Danby,

Read the Catechism.

2261: The deliberate murder of an innocent person is gravely contrary to the dignity of the human being, to the golden rule, and to the holiness of the Creator. The law forbidding it is universally valid: it obliges each and everyone, always and everywhere.

2263: The legitimate defense of persons and societies is not an exception to the prohibition against the murder of the innocent that constitutes intentional killing.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a5.htm

Blogger Danby November 16, 2015 10:27 PM  

Instead of debating the issue, you both resort to name calling... so much for being able to rely on your "superior" arguments, gentlemen. I'm sorry I hurt your tender feelings.

You started with the name calling fuckwit. Seriously, are you contending I can't possibly insult you while, and at the same time, destroying your pathetic, self-aggrandizing virtue signalling that took the place or your argument.
200 words, and you pick out 4 or 5 that triggered you dislike and declare the remainder unwords
You are steadfastly refusing to to address my arguments because you don't have an response. Your original argument was pseudo-dialectic, mostly preening in front of your Mirror of Infinite Self Regard. I demolished, Vox demolished it, then I demolished it again.
Now, instead of responding to the fact I pointed out, that all of your statements are "Because I said so!" arguments, you proceed to declare victory because we called you what your are, an unctuous moron, caring only for your own of ego , dispensing ill-thought-out rhetoric that you think is logic and Christianity.

A tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying only "Me am better than you".

Blogger Danby November 16, 2015 10:30 PM  

@101
I addressed that, moron. Read what I fucking wrote. I know it hurts to read words that trigger you, but work on it, practice it, and eventually it will hurt less and less.

Blogger IM2L844 November 16, 2015 10:37 PM  

Innocent? Emotion is clouding your perception, Bob.

Blogger Danby November 16, 2015 10:46 PM  

@Bob
Oh, and answer the question, Why do you hate Vietnamese so much, you racist?

Blogger Danby November 17, 2015 2:01 AM  

i don't know, Vox. this still isn't coming naturally.

Blogger VD November 17, 2015 3:52 AM  

Instead of debating the issue, you both resort to name calling... so much for being able to rely on your "superior" arguments, gentlemen. I'm sorry I hurt your tender feelings.

You already demonstrated that you weren't capable of honestly debating the issue. That's why I pointed out that you are a liar. There is no possibility of debating the issue with you because engaged in rhetoric from the start.

Even now you are lying and resorting to rhetoric in an attempt to emotionally manipulate. You are neither sorry nor did you hurt anyone's feelings.

And considering that you tried to pull this shit with me, who literally wrote a book on it, you have conclusively proved that you are, in fact, a moron.

Anonymous Amir Larijani November 17, 2015 7:08 AM  

So, to recap, Vox called me a moron, stupid, a liar, all more than once. His friend Danby resorted to calling me a pussy, an unctuous bastard (that's my favorite!), a racist and a shitlord.

You poor unctious bastard.

Anonymous Bob Gillespie November 17, 2015 9:58 AM  

Don't be silly. I'm making an argument based on ethics... of course my argument revolves around one ethical system being superior to another. That doesn't mean my argument is "self-aggrandizing virtue." Your argument is based on utilitarian military strategy. That necessarily revolves around one strategy being superior to another. That doesn't mean your argument has any less value. I'm surprised by your collective response. I would have thought engaging in a debate of ideas is what you wanted, but you're only interested in preaching to and from the choir.

Funny that Danby says, "I demolished, Vox demolished it, then I demolished it again. " - I think any rational observer, hearing your increasing name calling and personal attacks, would assume the opposite... that you were feeling threatened by an opposing view point and needed to resort to something else.

I have addressed your arguments, and my arguments were no more "because I said so" than yours (e.g. those killed at the camp were not innocent, because you said so... or Danby's argument that the Catholic Church's doctrine and moral teachings would be ok with the killing, because he said so, despite clear factual evidence to the contrary, drawn from a primary and authoritative source).

Oh, well. I learned a lot about you, Vox, from this exchange. Primarily, how angry and trite you are, and how weak the foundation of your arguments really is. You come off as an angry reactionary, not the level-headed leader of men that you make yourself out to be.

Enjoy your tribe.

Blogger Danby November 17, 2015 10:51 AM  

Why are you such a racist asshole, Bob?

Contrary to your assertion, you have yet to actually address anybody's arguments, including your own. Your singular and pathetic response was that it's wrong to kill innocents. When did VD or I ever deny that it was wrong to attack innocents? What of the Strawman, you useless hack?!? Think of the Strawman, Bob!

Funny that Danby says, "I demolished, Vox demolished it, then I demolished it again. " - I think any rational observer, hearing your increasing name calling and personal attacks, would assume the opposite... that you were feeling threatened by an opposing view point and needed to resort to something else.
1) What on Earth has a rational observer have to do with truth?
2) You started the name calling, cuckwit. Of course you were non-specific, and bland and vague enough that you probably don't even see that's what you were doing, because you're stupid, but you started off with name calling, and have been calling names with every post.
3) and as for "that you were feeling threatened by an opposing view point and needed to resort to something else", how about addressing the arguments presented, which you have yet to do, you oleaginous, racist, mental defective.

In a way, Bob, I'm glad your such a gamma. Since you're too dumb to become a wealthy man, you will never know the touch of a woman. So you will never be able to reproduce. That's good for all humanity.

Blogger IM2L844 November 17, 2015 6:14 PM  

You've learned nothing, Bob. You don't even understand your own argument, let alone the counter-argument.

Blogger Artisanal Toad January 15, 2016 1:01 AM  

The Problem with Bob is he wants to play the churchian "moral warfare" card, but He doesn't understand God's POV. I suspect it's that churchian infatuation with the New Testament to the exclusion of all else. And that part about "I am the same, yesterday, today and forever" and "All Scripture is inspired by God and useful for teaching..." got lost in the shuffle.

Notice in Numbers 16 that the leaders of the rebellion (Korah, Dathan, Abiraham) were hiding in their tents. The ground opened up and swallowed them, their wives and their children and so they went down to hades alive.

Notice in Numbers 25, the Israelites were enticed by the women of Moab to bow down to the Baal's. God told Moses to take the leaders of the people and crucify them in front of the assembly the next morning. Moses didn't do it and 24,000 people died of a plague in one day before Phineas manned up and turned things around.

And what about the story of Aichan, who stole gold, silver and silk garments from Jericho? God told Joshua to take him, his wife and their children into the valley, stone them to death and burn them with fire.

And when God sent the children of Israel into the land of Canaan, He told them to kill the men, women and children; and sometimes even the cattle as well.

That's the same God that commanded His son, His only son to become a man and die on a Roman cross.

To make some kind of churchian "moral warfare" argument is to ignore the simple fact that nits make lice and God doesn't have a problem with killing either. He certainly commanded it often enough.

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