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Tuesday, November 17, 2015

McRapey tries theology

The Bernie Madoff of science fiction is branching out into applied theology. Shall we not all devote our attention to him and sit at his feet that he might shower his exegetical wisdom upon us?
Here's a parable that has relevance today. It features a fellow many profess to love but fewer seem to know.

But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. The next day he took out two denarii[a] and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’

“Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”

 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”

Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”
Johnny Con, you're not a Christian. You have rejected Jesus Christ and his teachings. You don't get to misquote his words or claim that the hundreds of millions of Christians, who don't want the very people who wiped out their faith across the Middle East to be given the opportunity to repeat the process in the West, don't know him.

First, the Good Samaritan helped the man. He gave him some money. He didn't move the man into his house, provide him with room and board, then permit the man to have his wife, children, parents, and cousins move in and live off the largesse of the Good Samaritan while raping his children, stealing his cars, and trashing his yard.

To have mercy on alien people is not to pay for them to literally become your neighbor and live next door to you. One would think that a professional writer would grasp the difference between a metaphor and a literal command.

The true Christian position on refugees is to be found in Matthew 15:21-28:
Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly.”
 

Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.”
 

He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”
 

The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.
 

He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”
It is good and right to help those of other nations with "the crumbs that fall from their master’s table". But that is all. To do more is to deprive our posterity, which Jesus himself said is not right.

John Scalzi does not know Jesus Christ. He does not know the Bible. He does not know Christian theology. He pretends to, but then, as it is said, SJWs always lie.

And we all know who their Father is. He misquotes Scripture for his own purposes too.

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259 Comments:

1 – 200 of 259 Newer› Newest»
Blogger Steve, the Dark Ninja of Mockery November 17, 2015 12:07 PM  

The SJW brains trust is all over that Tweet.

Kyle Vincent Thomas ‏@kylevthomas
@scalzi I've been thinking on this all week. Samaritans were the enemy, despised. The modern day Good Samaritan is the jihadist. Ouch!


Too stupid to live.

Blogger John Wright November 17, 2015 12:10 PM  

You are also misquoting scripture, my dear sir. "He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs." is not the conclusion of the passage.

""Yes it is, Lord," she said. "Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master's table."

"Then Jesus said to her, "O woman, your faith is great; it shall be done for you as you wish." And her daughter was healed at once."

This passage has the exact opposite meaning of the meaning for which you quote it. The woman is not turned away because she is an outsider; she is granted her prayer because she has faith.

For the record, neither passage has anything to do with the issue of refugees, nor is Mr Scalzi correct in thinking Christians are obligated to let paynims overrun their homes. Myself, I wish the Pope would do his job and preach a crusade. But this is not the passage of scripture to use to support that point.

I think we should welcome any Middle Eastern refugee who is a Christian, and has as much faith in Christ as this Samaritan woman did.

Blogger Rabbi B November 17, 2015 12:11 PM  

Do I smell a 400+ comment post in the air?

Anonymous Thales November 17, 2015 12:11 PM  

Progressives have believed themselves holier than Jesus for decades, if not centuries, so this theological concern trolling comes as no surprise.

Anonymous Soga November 17, 2015 12:13 PM  

@1

Oh these jihadists, helping suffering people on the side of the road and friendily and helpfully dropping them off at the hospital and footing the bill!

What would we do without these Good Jihadists?

Blogger Alexandros November 17, 2015 12:14 PM  

The woman received her request for the salvation of her daughter; it was taught to me that the point is that they have to subsume their pride (and, importantly, their heathen religion which Islam refuses to do) in order to receive salvation; instead of thinking they are conquerors, they have to show the humility of a servant and discard their blasphemy.

In other words, if they discard all of the trappings of their backwards cultures and their evil worship and come to Christ, *THEN* they may be helped.

Which they definitely do not do; I think that is a more powerful point in this context.

Anonymous Incurvatus November 17, 2015 12:15 PM  

It's helpful to remind those who quote Old Testament "sojourner" blarney as an pro-immigration argument that sojourners who stayed in theocratic Israel were required under penalty of death to abandon their idolatry and worship God. If they stayed, assimilation was required.

Anonymous Soga November 17, 2015 12:15 PM  

I wonder how many of my mainstream Christian (read: Churchian) friends would agree that jihadists killing people is good as long as the people being killed are badthinkers.

Blogger S1AL November 17, 2015 12:17 PM  

Alexandros - The Samaritans were followers of Yahweh, not heathens. They were the equivalent of Ethiopian Orthodox.

Blogger Rabbi B November 17, 2015 12:17 PM  

@2 John Wright

You beat me to and are correct. It does not apply.

If we want to apply Scriptural principles to the refugee crisis, we would do well to turn to the Torah/Tanakh and consider Israel's relationship to the nations around her and the conditions for joining the commonwealth of Israel.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer November 17, 2015 12:18 PM  

Saw earlier someone pointed out that addressing security concerns is loving your near neighbors while assisting refugees is loving your far neighbors and sometimes the two come into conflict.

Airy hand waving about loving your neighbor with no attempt to address the actual issues (or attempting to ignore them as being irrelevant) is just another attempt at virtue signaling by unthoughtful children.

Anonymous Rick November 17, 2015 12:20 PM  

Many times I have had people tell me that Jesus stood for tolerance. I remind them of His actions while removing the miscreants from the Temple. Occasionally they counter with the notion of turning the other cheek; I remind them that forgiveness is not tolerance.

Anonymous The Gray Man November 17, 2015 12:20 PM  

I don't see why people are dead-set on forcing scripture to fit the immigration situation. Unless there was a specific passage that said you must help and take in those from other countries, then Christianity is largely silent on the issue.

That means it's time to make common-sense decisions.

Blogger Rabbi B November 17, 2015 12:21 PM  

"Too stupid to live."

I think the Torah addresses this.

Blogger Alexandros November 17, 2015 12:21 PM  

@9 S1AL that is true, however the woman in this passage was a Canaanite: an idolater, gentile, .etc

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother November 17, 2015 12:22 PM  

Rabbi B,

Could you post your email address again? I know you've done it before, but I need to email you with some questions regarding a family member of mine living in Israel.

Blogger Rabbi B November 17, 2015 12:23 PM  

@16 Stg58/Animal Mother

Certainly:

rebbaruch10@gmail.com

OpenID trunthepaige November 17, 2015 12:23 PM  

Over and over again, I see those who hold Christianity in contempt, trying to damn my faith with Jesus' out of contexts words. They have no respect for Christs teachings. Yet they think they can use those words as a weapon. And it works well with others who are just like them. But it fails with Christians who have actually read the scriptures with any regularity. The dishonesty of it all is hard to take seriously.

Blogger the bandit November 17, 2015 12:24 PM  

I had an SJW who claims to be a Christian that I got into a row with yesterday who posted Matthew 25:35-40 in basically the same vein. First I asked whether she had sold all she had yet and given it to the refugees (Matthew 19:16-30; Luke 12:15-34). After the hypocrisy was unmasked and verified (it was funny to watch them & the defenders dance), then I pointed out the true error in the original misquotation (Matthew 12:48-50).

If you see an SJW quoting Scripture, you can be certain it's out of context or misapplied. They don't only lie with their own words. They've been doing the same all week with Emma Lazarus's poem, as if the U.S. & the Statue of Liberty had been founded on that poem, as opposed to the Preamble to the Constitution (VD's previous post), since Gov. Abbot announced Texas wouldn't be accepting any refugees.

Blogger JartStar November 17, 2015 12:24 PM  

@4 Yep. He's more Christian than the Christians for sure, particularly since he doesn't believe the core tenants of it. That's how you can tell.

Blogger S1AL November 17, 2015 12:24 PM  

No, definitely a Samaritan. The Canaanites were extinct at that point.

Blogger RobertT November 17, 2015 12:24 PM  

This guy's a complete yo-yo. When's he gonna give it up and go away?

Anonymous FriarBob November 17, 2015 12:27 PM  

An interesting side point here.

The Samaritans had a corrupted form of the OT Israelite religion. Arguably, so do Muslims. And both called the other heretics. But instead of attacking the injured "heretic", he helped him instead. And I believe he even did so in Jewish territory, not his own.

OpenID trunthepaige November 17, 2015 12:29 PM  

@2 Nailed it in so far as Matthew 15:21-28 being the perfect scriptural justification, for taking in Syrian Christian refugees. But Muslims have no faith in Jesus, and it would be taking bread away from your own to take care of them.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer November 17, 2015 12:29 PM  

Also saw a tweet along the lines of:

The New Testament is vague on marriage and sexual ethics, but crystal clear on matters pertaining to national borders and refugees.

It was sarcastic, of course.

So the natural reply to appeals to Mathew 25 and the Good Samaritan is:

It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery (5:31-32)

and

Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

Blogger Rabbi B November 17, 2015 12:31 PM  

"Yet they think they can use those words as a weapon."

They think that it is a weapon which will expose our hypocrisy.

"Oh, this is the book that you claim as your authority? Well, look how well you are living up to its core tenets."

Among supposed believers, their is also tremendous amount of carelessness when it comes to Biblical exegesis and application. Isogesis is currently scratching the itching ears of many.

Blogger Dexter November 17, 2015 12:31 PM  

I don't see why people are dead-set on forcing scripture to fit the immigration situation.

Because they are Communists.

Because they are liars.

Because they hate Christians.

Anonymous Geoff November 17, 2015 12:32 PM  

I've learned more about Christianity from VD and JC Wright (and others here) than my church.

Blogger Epimandes November 17, 2015 12:33 PM  

"The LORD watches over the foreigner and sustains the fatherless and the widow, but he frustrates the ways of the wicked." (Psalm 146:9)

Blogger Skylark Thibedeau November 17, 2015 12:35 PM  

The Samaritans were thought of more like Mormons or sabbath day adventists.

Most Lefties are like the people Jesus spoke of in John 6:26 who sought him out not because of his preaching nor the signs of the kingdom of God he was proclaiming but because of the Free Bread and Fish.

Another Fallacy making the rounds is that baby Jesus was a refugee in Egypt. That may be but Christ came to Die for our Sins not to kill us and force us to submit to a Moon God.

Anonymous Grime Knight November 17, 2015 12:36 PM  

But Ruth said, “Do not urge me to leave you or to return from following you. For where you go I will go, and where you lodge I will lodge. Your people shall be my people, and your God my God. Where you die I will die, and there will I be buried. May the Lord do so to me and more also if anything but death parts me from you.”

While Ruth and her role in the Plan of Salvation has very little to do with immigration, her oath to Naomi, Israel, and ultimately to God ought to be held as a good model for anyone coming into one's country.

Blogger Bluntobj Winz November 17, 2015 12:38 PM  

I agree with resettling syrian christians, especially Maronites, in the US if necessary. I would much prefer supporting their populations in their home countries, however.

Blogger Culture War Draftee November 17, 2015 12:40 PM  

I've seen that quote floating around FB. I'm not much of a theologian, but assisting an individual assaulted by robbers is a rather different affair from allowing tens of thousands of young men seeking welfare hand outs to cross your border.

OT, btw Obama is running a competition for the USA's next national flag. He can be seen here voting for the one on the left.

http://binaryapi.ap.org/dcaf519feabc4cd7af12dfd10200697a/500x.jpg

Blogger Alexandros November 17, 2015 12:40 PM  

@21 S1AL: she was a Caaninite according to the scripture itself; perhaps we have different translations?

Anonymous Grime Knight November 17, 2015 12:41 PM  

Another Fallacy making the rounds is that baby Jesus was a refugee in Egypt.

Must have missed the part where Joseph and Mary shot up a bunch of people and demanded welfare benefits from the government

Blogger VD November 17, 2015 12:43 PM  

This passage has the exact opposite meaning of the meaning for which you quote it. The woman is not turned away because she is an outsider; she is granted her prayer because she has faith.

You are absolutely wrong. You are also missing the point. She is initially TURNED AWAY BECAUSE SHE IS AN OUTSIDER. That is the rule. Jesus grants an exception because she has exceptional faith.

I did not quote that section, but merely referred to it implicitly, because that part of it is not relevant to the current political discussion of refugees.

I think we should welcome any Middle Eastern refugee who is a Christian, and has as much faith in Christ as this Samaritan woman did.

I concur. But they are more needed in Lebanon. I would arrange to send all Middle Eastern Christians to Lebanon and to provide them with sufficient resources that they would be welcomed.

Blogger SirThermite (VFM #0025) November 17, 2015 12:44 PM  

I just asked Scazi if this is his way of announcing he's using some of that book advance money to set up refuge housing on his giant lawn.

Blogger Alexandros November 17, 2015 12:44 PM  

@32 Syrian Christians are too busy fighting to defend their nation from the invaders to be resettled in other countries. Ever since Russia began the air campaign, thousands of Syrians have (granted, this is hearsay in my community) returned home. I suspect that your preference to support them in their home country will be viable.

You can tell a true Syrian refugee just by checking age and sex: young men of fighting age are not refugees.

Anonymous Morgan November 17, 2015 12:44 PM  

I have seen Muslims say the "sent only for the strayed sheep of Israel" to mean Jesus was sent only for Jews and no one else. What is the response to that point of view. What passage would be a response that Jesus was for all mankind?

Anonymous Drew_Deuce's November 17, 2015 12:45 PM  

Another thing the astute Johnny missed is that in this metaphor, the listener is to put himself in the place of the man who was beaten. His neighbors were not the priests and Levites from his own people, but the one who was kind to HIM.

To make it analogous, our neighbor is the one who is kind to us, regardless of whether he is in our group or not.

Is it kindness to storm borders our borders, demand money and welfare, commit rape, destroy our culture....?

Anonymous Randy M November 17, 2015 12:52 PM  

"What passage would be a response that Jesus was for all mankind?"

"Go and make disciples of all nations"

Blogger S1AL November 17, 2015 12:52 PM  

@Alexandros - NKJV, NIV, and ESV all say "Samaritan".

@Morgan - John 3:16, Acts 1:8

Anonymous That Would Be Telling November 17, 2015 12:54 PM  

since Gov. Abbot announced Texas wouldn't be accepting any refugees.

No, since he announced that one unit of the state government has been directed to not participate. Which will make absolutely no difference in how many end up in Texas, since there are plenty of other organizations in the state eager to welcome them. The Feds list 22.

As far as I have looked, all of these Republican governors are grandstanding (what, are telling me you believed a politician without double checking?).

Blogger Russell (106) November 17, 2015 12:57 PM  

“Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”

The robbers aren't neighbors.

Anonymous XLRobin November 17, 2015 12:57 PM  

You mentioned, but did not include in your quote, the last two verses of that passage (27-28). Everyone who reads this post should read the entire passage:

Matthew 15:21-28 New International Version (NIV)

The Faith of a Canaanite Woman

21 Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22 A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly.”

23 Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.”

24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

25 The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.

26 He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”

27 “Yes it is, Lord,” she said. “Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.”

28 Then Jesus said to her, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed at that moment.

Blogger Epimandes November 17, 2015 12:59 PM  

The psalms do teach that the godly are supposed to take care of foreigners. Unless he changed his mind, Vox Day is an arian so it's not surprising that he misunderstand the old testament just like he misunderstands John 1:1.

Blogger VD November 17, 2015 12:59 PM  

You mentioned, but did not include in your quote, the last two verses of that passage (27-28).

As I said in my response to John, they are not relevant in this context.

Blogger VD November 17, 2015 1:01 PM  

The psalms do teach that the godly are supposed to take care of foreigners. Unless he changed his mind, Vox Day is an arian so it's not surprising that he misunderstand the old testament just like he misunderstands John 1:1.

I have never been an Arian. Since you are a liar, it is obvious that your ability to interpret Scripture from a Christian perspective should be viewed with skepticism.

Anonymous DissidentRight November 17, 2015 1:05 PM  

When Muslims are lying in a ditch, the Christian response is to give them aid.

When Muslims are invading your lands and raping your daughter, the Christian response to put them in a ditch.

Power dynamics matter. We aid the prey. Not the predators.

OpenID genericviews November 17, 2015 1:06 PM  

"the crumbs that fall from their master’s table"

I tried feeding my dog biblically for a little while. He lost a lot of weight and was NOT a happy dog. He gets dog food now.

Anonymous DNW November 17, 2015 1:06 PM  

We await his commentaries on divorce and Petrine authority.

Blogger Matamoros November 17, 2015 1:07 PM  

Deuteronomy 15:7-8 Confraternity says (as I recall) Stretch forth your hand to your needy kinsman in your own land.

Defines it all and Christ's comments state it again in another form. Do not take the children's bread and give it to dogs.

""Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces." - Matt. 7:6

Exactly what is happening to us for not following God's commandments in this regard.

Blogger Drew November 17, 2015 1:13 PM  

The actual interpretation in our given context would be the robbers are the foreigners. The one beat up a Jew, and citizen of Israel, represents those who suffer due to foreign invasion. The priest and Levite are the ones who allowed the robbers to exist in the first place (i.e. our government) walk on by and neglect the damage done to their own people. The Samaritan, who is of Jewish descent, therefore part of the citizenry, is the one who helps his fellow neighbor.

Blogger Epimandes November 17, 2015 1:17 PM  

Vox, on March 31st, 2012, you wrote "Therefore, God is one person, the Father. The doctrine of the Trinity is a false one."

I added the qualifier "unless you changed your mind" because I was going from memory on this quote, which prima facie seem to imply arianism. You should also know that verses in the Gospel which limit the Son's omniscience are taken to be an example of kenosis, which would have been essential in order for the death of the Son to be effective in atoning for the sins of humanity.

Blogger Gaiseric November 17, 2015 1:18 PM  

@42. No they don't. The KJV says "a woman of Canaan." And your earlier assertion that they were extinct is absurd; they're the (genetic, if not cultural and linguistic) ancestors of today's Palestinians.

Blogger Nate November 17, 2015 1:18 PM  

"You mentioned, but did not include in your quote, the last two verses of that passage "

Because rather than demanding as an equal the woman accepted her place as a dog beneath the master's table.

Do the muslims do so?

or do they demand as equals?

Blogger rcocean November 17, 2015 1:23 PM  

Rich Atheist, insulated against any blowback, calls on others to suffer in the name of Christ.

Persuades me.

Blogger LP999/S.I.G. Burnin' Up! November 17, 2015 1:23 PM  

No way, I checked the link twice because I was that surprised. What a twitter thread.

Mc-Sca-rapey-Johnny has to know better and he does not!

Blogger Ben Cohen November 17, 2015 1:24 PM  

The only time a leftist will cite the bible is to argue for mass immigration, and maybe for socialism sometimes.

Blogger JaimeInTexas November 17, 2015 1:24 PM  

Bad form to extract only a portion of the passage and leave a significant part out, especially when you are partially correct. The account has to do that Jesus was indeed sent to the House of Israel but that he was also to break the division of Jew and Gentile, before God. The complete idea in the passage concludes in "Then Jesus said to her, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed at that moment." Faith in Messiah saves, regardless of social status, even a status (your point) that as a matter of law (Mosaic) marks a division.

BTW, Tyre and Sidon are not in Israel. Jesus was the foreigner.

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 November 17, 2015 1:25 PM  

Well...


Jesus did say to love your neighbor as yourself. But I suppose that Muslims don't qualify; they aren't exactly interested in being our neighbors.

Blogger VD November 17, 2015 1:27 PM  

Vox, on March 31st, 2012, you wrote "Therefore, God is one person, the Father. The doctrine of the Trinity is a false one."

I added the qualifier "unless you changed your mind" because I was going from memory on this quote, which prima facie seem to imply arianism.


As I said, you are a liar. You omitted this not entirely irrelevant part: "Note that since I am skeptical of both doctrines, this argument obviously does not reflect my own theological beliefs."

You're not honest enough for theology. Don't try to correct what you believe to be the theological mistakes of others.

Blogger VD November 17, 2015 1:28 PM  

Jesus did say to love your neighbor as yourself.

Who is your neighbor? The person who helps you.

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 November 17, 2015 1:28 PM  

1) In Christianity, life is considered sacred.

2) Suicide, therefore, is a great sin, and offends God.

3) Therefore doing suicidal things is sinful, and offends God.

4) Inviting savages, who mean you and yours harm, into your society is suicidal.

5) Therefore letting them in is a sin, and offends God.

Did I get that right?

Blogger S1AL November 17, 2015 1:29 PM  

@Gaiseric - The KJV is fraught with anachronisms. That is one example. The Old Testament references to the Canaanites are consistently applied to the annihilated former inhabitants of the Holy Land.

This is similar to the way "Palestinian" means something different now than it did in 1940.

Anonymous Soga November 17, 2015 1:31 PM  

Jesus did say to love your neighbor as yourself. But I suppose that Muslims don't qualify; they aren't exactly interested in being our neighbors.

To which an interloper would reply, "What about the [unicorn] Muslim that is interested?"

I'm curious to hear how you would respond to that, WKL.

Blogger Kentucky Packrat November 17, 2015 1:31 PM  

When you read the Bible as a whole, and don't pick verse by verse, it makes itself clear.

Israel was to be kind to strangers in the land, because Israel had been a stranger and had been treated poorly. Foreigners who gave allegiance to God were welcome into the family (Rahab was in David's bloodline, Uriah the Hittite fought in David's army, etc.). However, unGodly foreigners were to be expelled, even to the point where Israelis were to send away foreign wives.

Jesus came to Israel because God promised Israel the Messiah first. The Samaritans got to experience Jesus because God still considered them Children of Promise, and loved them for Abraham's sake. When Jesus' path crossed with worthy Gentiles, then He did work with them, but He focused on Israel because He had a limited time to do a limited mission.

It was the disciples that were sent to Jews in the rest of the world first, and then the Gentiles. At that point, there was no distinction in quality of bloodline or financial position, only in meritocracy and faith in God.

Now, we are supposed to be like the Samaritan. We are supposed to feed the hungry, cloth the naked, comfort the oppressed. There is absolutely nothing in the Bible that supports arming or transporting the invader and the oppressor, or allowing the attacker in the gates. Most of these "refugees" are young Muslim invaders wanting the dole and new territory to take over. We are under no obligation to do anything for them but show them the way out.

Anonymous Scintan November 17, 2015 1:31 PM  

This is going to end up as another 200+ post thread consisting mostly of people arguing misapplied, and misunderstood, bible passages back and forth.

"Thou shall not kill" syndrome in full force...

Blogger rcocean November 17, 2015 1:32 PM  

The point is that Jesus only healed her because she had such great faith in him, if she hadn't he would've ignored her because she was a foreigner.

Blogger Nate November 17, 2015 1:32 PM  

" The KJV is fraught with anachronisms."

Yep. KJV sucks.

Blogger rcocean November 17, 2015 1:33 PM  

So the default position is ignore foreigners.

Anonymous Shut up rabbit November 17, 2015 1:33 PM  

neigh·bor
/ˈnābər/
noun
noun: neighbour
1. a person living near or next door to the speaker or person referred to.

It what messed up SJW atlas is Syria neighbour to France or any other EU country?

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 November 17, 2015 1:33 PM  

@66

If one existed, then perhaps you should love him as you would any other neighbor. But then there's a question you need to ask: how do you identify such a person? His religious faith permits him to lie to you; by what means would you establish that he actually means to be your neighbor?

Blogger JaimeInTexas November 17, 2015 1:35 PM  

This is the reason why she was called a Canaanite.

https://gospeldevotions.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/map-13-tyre-and-sidon.jpg

Blogger Lovekraft November 17, 2015 1:37 PM  

The opposite of the Old Testament which is replete with directives to be steadfast, faithful and ready. Whatever medium Scalzi is broadcasting from becomes tainted by empty meanderings of a half-man.

Blogger Nate November 17, 2015 1:37 PM  

I would be interested in comparing and contrasting the woman in this scripture to the centurion in 8:5.

Anonymous Soga November 17, 2015 1:38 PM  

@73

Interloper: "But as Christians, aren't we supposed to give people the benefit of the doubt, even when they could be a liar?"

I think the best route to go here is to go down the entryist road. Respond to this interloper by saying that even a "friendly" Muslim is perfectly capable of being a Trojan horse, even unintentionally. He would work to bring other Muslim immigrants into your country, whether or not they're amicable Muslims.

Then hammer the rhetoric home: you don't want your unicorn Muslim to be the foothold that gets your wife and daughters raped and beaten to death, do you?

Blogger Student in Blue November 17, 2015 1:39 PM  

Who is your neighbor? The person who helps you.

Alternatively, your enemy is *not* your neighbor, he is your enemy.

There's a weird pseudo-theology where people assume to be self-destructive is to be Christian.

They repackage suicide to be martyrdom.

Blogger S1AL November 17, 2015 1:40 PM  

@Nate - Are you *trying* to derail the comments?

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 November 17, 2015 1:41 PM  

@77

My response would be much simpler: a man may choose, out of the goodness of his heart, to endanger himself by aiding someone who may be an enemy in disguise. But it is not his right to endanger his family, or his community, by doing so. Therefore anyone who wants to let them in should only say so if they would allow them to live in their own homes, and not merely in the community at large.

Blogger Giraffe November 17, 2015 1:42 PM  

Who is your neighbor? The person who helps you.

Who are we to emulate? The Samaritan, who helped the helpless.

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 November 17, 2015 1:42 PM  

@78

Problem: Jesus also advised loving your enemy, did he not?

Blogger Lovekraft November 17, 2015 1:43 PM  

Scalzi's parable refers to Jesus's commandment to love your neighbour as one loves himself. In the greater context, the issue of being accepting and generous is at play.

The timing of Scalzi's message in conjunction with the event of Paris of Nov 13, 2015 leads one to confusedly wonder whether Jesus (according to Scalzi) has no boundaries on what defines 'neighbour'.

And no boundaries in interpretation is something convenient for Scalzi. An amateur declaration.

Anonymous Soga November 17, 2015 1:43 PM  

Excellent response, WKL. There's also a twang of sweet rhetoric in that. It's framing the issue as suicidal.

Blogger Student in Blue November 17, 2015 1:44 PM  

@White Knight Leo
Jesus also advised loving your enemy, did he not?

And what demonstrates more love for your enemy than to convert him and save him from eternal damnation?

Obviously showing your love in a self-destructive way is right out, so that's clearly not the intended outcome.

Blogger Dexter November 17, 2015 1:44 PM  

Jesus also advised loving your enemy, did he not?

Gee I don't know how countless Christian soldiers for over a thousand years managed to reconcile this with killing their enemies. If only Christian theologians had said something about "just war" at some point, we could understand this apparent discrepancy a little better.

Blogger S1AL November 17, 2015 1:44 PM  

@Leo - Yes, but supplication to evil is not love. We are to love them for the sake of the Gospel, not be nice to them for the sake of idiocy.

Indeed, it would be an unloving act to allow any nation to freely fall to the Merciless God of Submission.

Blogger Rabbi B November 17, 2015 1:45 PM  

@36 VD

"She is initially TURNED AWAY BECAUSE SHE IS AN OUTSIDER. That is the rule."

There is no Biblical mandate for countries and nations (as Scalzi and other of his ilk try to assert) to open up the borders and receive willy-nilly any and everyone in the name of so-called Christian charity, compassionate humanitarianism, or any other smarmy, altruistic tripe.

I cannot speak for Mr. Wright, but I initially responded and disagreed with you on a contextual basis. However, after considering your response, I would agree with and concede that the principle of "outsider status" and the implications you highlighted in your response to @2 speaks to the current political situation.

I therefore retract my initial objection on those grounds, and humbly offer an illustration of my own: Joshua 9.

Joshua and others were guilty of failing to exercise caution and carefully inquire of the L-rd. Now, I certainly do not expect the leaders today to inquire of the L-rd, but I would at least like to see them exercise even a modicum of common sense and to begin working in the best interests of their citizenry, rather than trying to deliberately destroy them.

Blogger Dexter November 17, 2015 1:45 PM  

There's a weird pseudo-theology where people assume to be self-destructive is to be Christian.

The Left has infiltrated the Church just like every other institution and infected it with Leftist suicidal insanity.

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 November 17, 2015 1:46 PM  

@84

A lot of people here don't like me. But I like to think I have my moments.




@85

Not what I was saying. My point was that it makes no sense to say 'neighbor = not!enemy' when Jesus advised you to love both. I wasn't suggesting that self-destructive or suicidal love was the answer; I was criticizing your phrasing.

Blogger JartStar November 17, 2015 1:47 PM  

The fact that Christians can still have a conversation about how nice they should be to people who might want to destroy everything they hold dear is a direct consequence of the cultural Christianity which still dominates the US. In other words Christians in the US still think that their new neighbors are only as different from them as Methodists are from Lutherans so everyone can just have a nice, pleasant debate about the nuances of scripture and morality.

Your new secular neighbor doesn't care if the wafer is the body of Christ or not, he's interested in enacting laws so your church is taxed into oblivion and you go to jail for not properly acknowledging someone's gender.



Blogger Cail Corishev November 17, 2015 1:47 PM  

Syrian Christians are too busy fighting to defend their nation from the invaders to be resettled in other countries.

We forget sometimes that not everyone wants to live in The Greatest Country In The History Of The World (tm). Being a typical American ignoramus on history, the first time I heard about modern-day Christians being persecuted in Muslim countries, my first thought was, "Sheesh, why do they still live there?" Because they've always lived there, dummy. It's their home. If they were inclined to abandon it to the Mohammedans, they would have done so long ago.

So if we decide, as Christians or Americans or Good Samaritans or whatever, to "settle" them in a safe place, they'd probably prefer that we make that safe place their own homes, rather than move them to a Kansas City suburb.

Blogger JaimeInTexas November 17, 2015 1:48 PM  

The Canaanite woman came as a desperate beggar to Jesus. The Centurion accepted Jesus' claim to be God's Apostle/Ambassador, and understood all that that implied - authority and power.

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 November 17, 2015 1:50 PM  

@92

Enough people do want to live here that it's not a stupid assumption to make. But I thought - and still think - basically the same thing. My position is that they need to either be organizing militias to fight back, or else leaving, because they don't really have any other acceptable options.

Anonymous WildBill November 17, 2015 1:51 PM  

I think a stronger argument is that Jesus only wants volunteers. Charity is the church's domain. The government forcing refugees on the good will of the people is not in the spirit of compassion. You cannot legislate righteousness (hence why the covenant of grace replaced the law). Let people choose individually how they want to reach out to those in need - through the organizations they choose - and watch generosity flow. Let the government force it on us and watch the disaster unfold. Things just work better when we do them God's way....that was the design anyway.

Blogger Nate November 17, 2015 1:51 PM  

"@Nate - Are you *trying* to derail the comments?"

no. I think there may be a difference in the woman and centurion that may shed light on this matter and how christians should treat muslims.

Dare I say... not all foreigners are equal.

Anonymous Epimandes November 17, 2015 1:51 PM  

As I said, you are a liar. You omitted this not entirely irrelevant part: "Note that since I am skeptical of both doctrines, this argument obviously does not reflect my own theological beliefs."

So when you said, "As it happens, he got that one ["The Trinity is obvious BS"] entirely correct, which is not the case in two of the other ten points," I am supposed to interpret it as meaning that you do believe in deity of the Son, and that reading your statement in any other way is evidence of dishonesty because you happened to tack on a dubious disclaimer several paragraphs after your introduction?

Do you think that it is possible for an honest reader to interpret your introduction as implying that perhaps you don't fully believe in the deity of the Son?

Blogger Cail Corishev November 17, 2015 1:52 PM  

The only time a leftist will cite the bible

Don't forget "Judge not, lest ye be judged." That's their favorite verse of all, since they use it to deflect criticism of anything they ever want to do.

Blogger Student in Blue November 17, 2015 1:53 PM  

@WKL
Not what I was saying. My point was that it makes no sense to say 'neighbor = not!enemy' when Jesus advised you to love both.

It makes perfect sense, because the standard Churchian line is neighbor = love = enemy, thus neighbor = enemy, albeit not in so many words.

Love for your neighbor is not the same as love for your enemy. Even though English has it as the same word, there are clear differences in types of love.

Unless you happen to love your children the exact same way you love your wife, which is creepy.

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 November 17, 2015 1:53 PM  

@95

I, at least, was trying to make a secular argument. I'm not religious at all, so while I agree with the principle I need a non-Jesus reason for my agreement. Recognizing that one man's desire to be charitable does not create a moral obligation for his community to go along with it, works for me.

Blogger Mark Citadel November 17, 2015 1:54 PM  

To be honest, this is just funny. John Scalzi... Theology... hahaha

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales November 17, 2015 1:54 PM  

"John Scalzi does not know Jesus Christ. He does not know the Bible. He does not know Christian theology. He pretends to, but then, as it is said, SJWs always lie."

Coming from a self admitted unitarian who denies Christ of his full, capital D Deity and capital G Godhood and the blessed Trinity, that's several shades of fucking hilarity, and admittedly, like the lion calling the tiger a dangerous creature.

Not that I disagree with your take on McRapey's terrible exegesis, but I do feel the need to point out that the Hadjis and non-Messianic jews are right there with you in denying Christ's full glory and the glory of the three personal centers of self-consciousness in one being, so please, stop acting like you yourself are a genuine Christian when you reduce the Christ in Christian to a created being, you heretical jerk.

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 November 17, 2015 1:54 PM  

@99

So you're saying that the admonitions to love your neighbor and your enemy made more sense in Greek, because they had different words for different kinds of love?

... Fair enough.

Blogger VD November 17, 2015 1:56 PM  

I, at least, was trying to make a secular argument

Then stop quoting the Bible and trying to critique Christian arguments. You have no place in this particular discussion.

Blogger VD November 17, 2015 1:57 PM  

Coming from a self admitted unitarian who denies Christ of his full, capital D Deity and capital G Godhood and the blessed Trinity, that's several shades of fucking hilarity, and admittedly, like the lion calling the tiger a dangerous creature.

You are demonstrably lying. Do you admit to serving the Father of Lies?

Blogger Student in Blue November 17, 2015 1:58 PM  

So you're saying that the admonitions to love your neighbor and your enemy made more sense in Greek, because they had different words for different kinds of love?

You don't even need to know Greek or Latin to know that loving your car is different from loving your wife.

...or at least should be.

Blogger Nate November 17, 2015 1:58 PM  

"Problem: Jesus also advised loving your enemy, did he not?"

Its shit like this that makes us think you're a gamma bitch.

Blogger Artisanal Toad November 17, 2015 1:58 PM  

Dealing with Islam and their observable behavior I think it appropriate to apply the Godly standard of Job: "I broke the fangs of the wicked and snatched the victim from their teeth." Consider how God described Job: "Have you seen my servant Job? There is none like him."

Women who would be the "Proverbs 31 Woman" should be taught to look for a Job 29 Man. Read the chapter first and observe that Job was pure alpha. Then read the book and observe how he dealt with the problems he was handed. And look at the response of his wife after he'd been kicked to the curb and lay there in pain.

We should also look at the one God referred to as "my friend" and his response to invaders. Abraham gathered to him the 318 men of his household who were trained with the sword and spear, pursued the invaders, attacked them, defeated them and rescued the victims.

And who can forget Phineas? When God told Moses to take the leaders of the people and crucify them before the assembly, what did Moses do? He went to the leaders God told him to kill and told them to put to death all of their people who had joined themselves to baal-peor. Notice God's response: He sent a plague that killed 24,000 in one day. Look at what God said- He gave Phineas His covenant of peace and made his line an everlasting priesthood. Why? Because Phineas killed Zimri, one of the chief princes of the tribe of Simeon, one of the people Moses should have crucified, for violating God's Law.

The problem isn't a question of what needs to be done about islam, the problem is the west does not possess the righteousness to do it. Yes, that's a logical conundrum for most, but it's reality. There is a genocidal war going on and guess which side is so confused that they can't recognize it? The Prophet Isaiah spoke of this in Isaiah 3:12

O My people! Their oppressors are children and women rule over them.
O My people! Those who guide you lead you astray and confuse the direction of your paths.


Let's see, Christians, can you name the 4 priesthoods of the Bible?

There was the Levitical priesthood, that should be easy.
Then there was the Aaronic priesthood, that should have been easy too.
As Christians we are priests after the order of Melchizedek, but not many would get that.
But practically nobody will get the Phineas Priesthood, which God said would be an everlasting priesthood.

If God said it was an everlasting priesthood, that means the Phineas priests are still among us. They need to wake up.

Blogger S1AL November 17, 2015 1:59 PM  

@Nate - Am I misremembering, or was that centurion a Jewish convert? Well, at least implicitly.

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 November 17, 2015 1:59 PM  

@104

You may have noticed that I'm not disagreeing with the point that letting the refugees in is dangerous, VD. I'm not even criticizing Christian arguments. The only criticism I've offered thus far is of one person's specific phrasing, not of the argument he was making.

Blogger Eric Castle November 17, 2015 2:00 PM  

There is a key distinction here that needs addressed that is being missed. The woman was turned away because Jesus' ministry prior to the birth of the church (which was to come after His death, burial, and resurrection) was for the Jewish nation alone. They received "first dibs" as it were, and this was still the Old Covenant at the time of the account in Matthew.

However, with the birth of the church, a New Covenant was going into effect. Jesus told His apostles they would be "His witnesses in Jerusalem, throughout Judea, Samaria, and to the ends of the earth" (Acts 1:8) foretelling what would soon take place.

With the birth of the church at Pentecost (Acts 2), Jews were called to become Christians. With the work of Philip in Samaria (Acts 8) the church was opened to them. With the preaching to Cornelius and his household (Acts 10, 11) the church was opened to Gentiles, which would include those of "Caanan" like this woman. (Antioch which was one of the first "gentile" churches was in that region. It was from here Paul was sent on his missionary journeys!)

Probably the biggest problem with the entire discussion is relating to earthly politics vs. the concerns of a spiritual kingdom "not of this earth". Liberals love to pick and choose Scripture to use as a cudgel over temporal (e.g. non-spiritual) matters, ignoring the spiritual context altogether. Many Christians fail to understand the exegetical realities of the context as well. Cue a circular mess of falsehood feeding off of misinterpretation.

Blogger Nate November 17, 2015 2:01 PM  

"Do you think that it is possible for an honest reader to interpret your introduction as implying that perhaps you don't fully believe in the deity of the Son?"

To make that assumption you must be a moron, or a snake.

Your choice.

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 November 17, 2015 2:02 PM  

@106

I suppose you don't. Fair point.

Blogger Gaiseric November 17, 2015 2:03 PM  

I have seen Muslims say the "sent only for the strayed sheep of Israel" to mean Jesus was sent only for Jews and no one else. What is the response to that point of view. What passage would be a response that Jesus was for all mankind?

Jesus did come to preach to the Jews and not to anyone else (although the Samaritans, as partly Jewish, got grandfathered in in a few cases.) It was only after his Ascension that the gospel was explicitly to be sent to the gentiles.

The last shall be first and the first shall be last. So now it's in reverse; the Gentiles have the gospel and the Jews (for the most part, Rabbi B and a few others excepted) continue to reject it.

Blogger Lost Sheep November 17, 2015 2:03 PM  

The reality is, there is NO MESSAGE MORE CLEAR in the Old Testament than that the people of God are to be set apart from all other nations and religions.

Anonymous Epimandes November 17, 2015 2:03 PM  

To make that assumption you must be a moron, or a snake.

I am not ashamed to admit that I may be a moron, but I want to know what Vox really meant if my reading is mistaken.

Blogger kh123 November 17, 2015 2:04 PM  

Maybe not a modern thing, but sure as hell rife in this day and age: Shoehorning every possible modern situation into one example, which had specific players, historical context, outcome, and reading into it whatever will make them look the most liberal, enlightened. Looming Sharia on the horizon? Why, simply Canaanite women on the side of the road of course. Neighbors, even. Free the serfs.

Besides vested interest, seems one reason why paradigms don't shift all that often. Folks want a model for every contingency.

Blogger VD November 17, 2015 2:05 PM  

You may have noticed that I'm not disagreeing with the point that letting the refugees in is dangerous, VD. I'm not even criticizing Christian arguments. The only criticism I've offered thus far is of one person's specific phrasing, not of the argument he was making.

I did. But that doesn't change the fact that you are trying to get involved in a debate concerning matters of which you know nothing and things you do not believe. You are simply not equipped to take part in it. Instead of offering ignorant distractions that are new to precisely no one, why don't you try listening in learning?

We are not all equally equipped to discuss every subject in an intelligent and informed manner.

Anonymous Frank Brady November 17, 2015 2:08 PM  

How are they "not relevant"?

Blogger Markku November 17, 2015 2:08 PM  

I can confirm from private discussions that Vox is not an Arian, and does believe in the full divinity of Christ.

Blogger Curtis November 17, 2015 2:08 PM  

Want to live here? You WILL serve our God and respect our laws and customs. Period. There is no room for error.

The bible is full of examples of the WHY.

Keep it up America, and God will surely put you on your knees. You will either repent, or go to utter destruction.

Blogger Danby November 17, 2015 2:09 PM  

So the question is, once again, "Who is the neighbor?"

There are 5 people in the the parable
The Jew
The Samaritan
The Robber(s)
The Priest
The Levite

The Robbers are obviously not his neighbors, they mean to take his belongings and don't mind doing him grievous bodily harm along the way.
The Levite had been dedicated to God, and wished to avoid ritual defilement. He was more concerned with himself than with the poor victim.
The Priest had pressing matters at hand, critical religious duties. Helping the Jew would mean he could not perform his duties to God.
The Samaritan was an estranged kinsman of the Jew, of the same ethnicity, whose people were considered anathema and definitionally unclean.

We all play some of these parts at various times, it's not easy to assign a role to ourselves. If we are to be the Samaritan, however, we pick up the victims, see that they are taken care of, and left at the inn. We take care of our business, do our duties, but we help the unfortunate victim.
What we do not do is invite the robbers into our homes. And that's what is happening, the elites have decided that we need to take in every robber gang in the Middle East, into our homes.

@2 JCW,
I would make the argument that by her declaration, the Canaanite woman has made a profession of her faith, thereby revoking her status as outsider and becoming a member of the people of God. Jesus explicitly says He was sent to save the Jews, but He sent His disciples to make disciples of all men.
But the general principle is the part we are talking about. "It is not right to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs." Which is exactly what the governments of Europe and North America are doing.

Blogger kh123 November 17, 2015 2:10 PM  

...And I accept that the "make them look the most liberal, enlightened" thing may not even be consciously done. As was brought up this past week, the modern pull in that direction is reinforced at every turn.

Blogger VD November 17, 2015 2:10 PM  

I am not ashamed to admit that I may be a moron, but I want to know what Vox really meant if my reading is mistaken.

Mistaken? Do you seriously think I have to believe an argument in order to accurately present it? Do you really believe I am incapable of correctly summarizing an argument concocted by an intellectual inferior?

You observably don't even have a clue and yet you went ahead and hurled a false accusation. That's stupid and contemptible.

Next time, I suggest you try simply asking a question instead of making a complete ass of yourself.

Blogger Salt November 17, 2015 2:10 PM  

Dare I say... not all foreigners are equal

Huzzah!

Blogger Nate November 17, 2015 2:10 PM  

"Want to live here? You WILL serve our God and respect our laws and customs. Period. There is no room for error."

meh.

Shut up.

There is plenty of room the occasional agnostic or atheist here. There is plenty of room for hindus and noble pagan savages.

What there is no room for... is Islam.

Blogger VD November 17, 2015 2:12 PM  

How are they "not relevant"?

The context of determining Jesus Christ's fundamental perspective on outsiders. The fact that he made an exception for one exceptional outsider upon request does not change that perspective.

You will note he did not heal any other Samaritans, just the one woman's daughter.

Blogger Markku November 17, 2015 2:14 PM  

However, since all groups I know of, that deny the doctrine of the Trinity do so because they are Arians, the error is somewhat understandable and is probably more symptomatic of careless thinking, than outright lying.

Blogger Artisanal Toad November 17, 2015 2:14 PM  

@Nate

You're falling for the "baffle them with bullshit" ploy. Calm down.

Breath, Relax, Aim, Squeeze. It works every time, provided your dope is set.

Dancing monkeys are damn difficult to hit because they're dancing monkeys (Proverbs 26:4 applies). However, as soon as the conversation with the dancing monkey comes down to the fact they have a little dick, rectal bleeding and an ulcer on their balls, they seem to disappear. I suspect there's a natural law at work there, but I've so far been unable to identify it.

Anonymous BigGaySteve November 17, 2015 2:18 PM  

Do the muslims do so?or do they demand as equals?

Moslems demand to be treated as superior. When I was growing up a Syrian Christian (whose family immigrated) explained to me that I would never make sense of the middle east without understanding moslems can lie under oath(taqiyya) and even those that use their hands for toilet paper consider themselves superior to the men who walked on the moon.

Progressives have believed themselves holier than Jesus for decades, if not centuries

I was working a weekend option at a place I wouldn't want to be caught dead at when a female manager had a problem with me working 2 Christmases in a row. She was catholic until she divorced her ex husband. She didn't know I was gay but I told her that since I didn't have kids working Christmas was like a present from me to coworkers with young children & that I still had 16hours to celebrate left in the day. She still had a problem with it so I told her to think of it as a penance but I promised to spend more money on non necessary things & more free time celebrating Christmas than mother Teresa, who worked every Sunday/holiday with the sick. For her it was a control issue.

Blogger Markku November 17, 2015 2:21 PM  

Vox is as much Arian as he is Aryan - you can see how someone might make that mistake, but it is still a mistake.

Anonymous Anonymous November 17, 2015 2:21 PM  

Thank you, Lord of Shadows, for always providing the best instruments for your minions to sharpen their teeth on. All the better to feast on our enemies with.
-F.Axe #437

Blogger Curtis November 17, 2015 2:22 PM  

"Shut up."

Meh. And the Jews made room in Israel for the occasional agnostic or atheist, and hindus and noble pagan savages.

And we know how that always turned out.

Just look at America. Noble? As compare to what? Noble Christians?

Blogger Lost Sheep November 17, 2015 2:22 PM  

How am I loving my neighbor if I allow rapists and murderers to move next door to her?

Blogger Markku November 17, 2015 2:23 PM  

Christians have grown so eneamored with the thought of loving their enemies that they tend to forget that friends and family could sometimes use a little love also.

Anonymous Aquila Aquilonis November 17, 2015 2:26 PM  

There is plenty of room for hindus

As long as this is defined as less than the number for a cricket team and no temples. Maybe ...

Blogger Markku November 17, 2015 2:28 PM  

When you love the one, and not the other two, it's not Christianity, it's Stockholm Syndrome.

Blogger S1AL November 17, 2015 2:30 PM  

Well, I think the one thing that all the present denominations and viewpoints can agree upon is that Leo needs to have a literal come to Jesus talk. And maybe some testosterone supplements.

Blogger praetorian November 17, 2015 2:34 PM  

How a story about helping a stranger out on his journey (not his resettlement, and certainly not his resettlement in the house of the stories hero) gets turned into an argument for giving away your country can be explained by one thing:

Estrogen.

Unfortunately, for the biblically illiterate and estrogenically enhanced, it makes for good rhetoric.

Anonymous Bah November 17, 2015 2:35 PM  

There is plenty of room the occasional agnostic or atheist here. There is plenty of room for hindus and noble pagan savages.

Come live in DC and its suburbs. It is overrun with agnostics, atheists, Hindus, and savages. There is not "plenty of room" for them -- you can't get away from the sonsobitches.

Blogger Student in Blue November 17, 2015 2:40 PM  

When you love the one, and not the other two, it's not Christianity, it's Stockholm Syndrome.

I think most of them believe they *are* loving everyone. They're willfully ignoring the harm it's doing to their friends and family.

I'm guessing it's also a useful attack angle, to hammer how much they're harming their own and how much of a traitor they are, outgrouping them in the same way as r/K theory.

Blogger Noah B #120 November 17, 2015 2:40 PM  

"When you love the one, and not the other two, it's not Christianity, it's Stockholm Syndrome."

Or Helsinki Syndrome for the Die Hard fans.

Blogger the bandit November 17, 2015 2:49 PM  

@43

what, are telling me you believed a politician without double checking?

I grant I have tendency to fall into a comma laden 19th century style, but no, that's not what I told you at all. I told you the SJWs have and they've been squawking about it.

Also, if you were as clever as you think you are but still just as obnoxiously literal, you'd have just pointed out that the governor can't really stop anybody from entering the state once they've been granted access to the U.S.

Blogger the bandit November 17, 2015 2:51 PM  

@134

Now that's an excellent rhetorical rejoinder!

Anonymous Boogeyman VFM #240 November 17, 2015 2:55 PM  

They think these people from the mid east are like the beaten traveler. But what if they're the other guy?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ukn-IvXHiCw

Blogger Gaiseric November 17, 2015 2:55 PM  

Also, if you were as clever as you think you are but still just as obnoxiously literal, you'd have just pointed out that the governor can't really stop anybody from entering the state once they've been granted access to the U.S.

Which has been pointed out numerous times. And the obvious rejoinder, which has also been pointed out numerous times, is that he can make it awfully difficult, though—refusing to recognize their welfare needs, refusing to provide housing, etc. I doubt most of these "refugees" are very interested in their socialist tourism if they don't actually get anything out of it.

Anonymous Bee November 17, 2015 2:55 PM  

The hebrew of the Bible makes a distinction between "sojourner' and "foreigner". The sojourner had to get permission and had to agree to follow Jewish law. Countries of Biblical time had passports, permission was needed to enter.

http://www.cis.org/bible-use-and-abuse-immigration

Blogger Noah B #120 November 17, 2015 2:55 PM  

I am continually awestruck at how rich the theological discussions here tend to be compared to all others I've been a party to.

Blogger Gapeseed November 17, 2015 2:59 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Bodichi (0031) November 17, 2015 2:59 PM  

@ 82. White Knight Leo #0368

I don't care what you think Jesus said.

You mention no verse, no translation, nothing.

Go back to your Queen James Bible and your homosexual couples adopting children.

Blogger Bard November 17, 2015 3:02 PM  

"Love your neighbor as yourself" Mk 12:31. How do you love yourself? Do you fail yourself? Do you let yourself down? Do you always follow through on resolutions (vows/promises to self)? Do you get angry at yourself?

The answer to all those is an overwhelming yes. What you normally do NOT unless you are mentally ill is intentionally commit harm to self. I like to think of it as always having my own best interests at heart. Therefore, I should have my neighbors best interest at heart and that is how I love him as myself. However, Islam is a LIE from the pits of hell. All its followers are deceived and are slated for destruction unless they find salvation in Yeshua. They are NOT my neighbor. They are my enemy. Christ did say to love your enemy, but he also said to cut off your hand and gouge out your eye if it causes you to sin and no one takes that literally, so loving your neighbor is not without limits and restrictions either.

Blogger Sheila4g November 17, 2015 3:04 PM  

@36, Vox - a genuine question, if I may ask. You agree with John Wright that Syrian Christians, if their faith is strong, perhaps ought to be admitted here:

("I think we should welcome any Middle Eastern refugee who is a Christian, and has as much faith in Christ as this Samaritan woman did.

I concur."

Given your belief in HBD (i.e. genes not absolutely determinant but heavily influencing behavior and culture), does this mean you believe religion alone, or rather genuine Christian belief alone, would render someone a suitable future US citizen? I was under the impression that the genetic background of Syrian Arabs and Christians was not dramatically different, although I'm no scholar on the issue. I was also under the impression that in other examples (i.e. people using the same argument for the importation of numerous Nigerian Christians) you found that reasoning unpersuasive.

Blogger Lovekraft November 17, 2015 3:07 PM  

I am continually awestruck at how rich the theological discussions here tend to be compared to all others I've been a party to.

Happens when people are tuned away from mainstream media and start to see the world in a different, truer light. Great site this is.

Blogger Lovekraft November 17, 2015 3:08 PM  

"I am continually awestruck at how rich the theological discussions here tend to be compared to all others I've been a party to."

Sorry, this was supposed to be in quotes. I referenced another minion.

Blogger Sam Lively November 17, 2015 3:14 PM  

@135

Not so sure about that Markku. I think Christians (American ones at least) are huge on loving friends and family.

Our problem is that we pretend our fear, uncertainty and cringing insecurity in the presence of our enemies is actually meekness and love for them. "Love your enemies" has turned into cede your enemies the "moral high ground and keep a low-profile." And I think a lot of that stems from enjoying the safe love of family and friends too much - they aren't willing to do the hard, dangerous work of engaging the enemy and either converting them or contending with them.

Blogger JaimeInTexas November 17, 2015 3:17 PM  

@135. Markku

So true.

Blogger Markku November 17, 2015 3:23 PM  

Not so sure about that Markku. I think Christians (American ones at least) are huge on loving friends and family.

The touchy-feely part, yes. The part about protecting them from rape and murder, no.

Blogger Markku November 17, 2015 3:24 PM  

To be fair, this does not apply to some states, most of which are located in the south.

Blogger Student in Blue November 17, 2015 3:24 PM  

@sheila4g
Given your belief in HBD (i.e. genes not absolutely determinant but heavily influencing behavior and culture), does this mean you believe religion alone, or rather genuine Christian belief alone, would render someone a suitable future US citizen?

There's a bit of conflation going on here. Concerns of HBD especially pop up in subsequent generations, and if strong (and 'strong' was the term used in Vox's post) Christians are seeking refugee status... that is not the same thing as immigration.

Refugees are *supposed* to return back to their land once the danger has passed, not move in permanently in their asylum. Refugees are also supposed to be those who cannot fight back, such as a family with children and elderly.

"Refugees" who are men of fighting age and capability are deserters at best.

Blogger Bard November 17, 2015 3:25 PM  

Does anyone know how we could actually, and I mean truly, help our Syrian Christian brothers relocate?

Anonymous That Would Be Telling November 17, 2015 3:27 PM  

I'm pointing out that Texas Governor Abbot is lying when he puts out a press release titled "Governor Abbott To Refuse Syrian Refugees Relocating To Texas", and starts out a letter to Obama with the sentence "As governor of Texas, I write to inform you that the State of Texas will not accept any refugees from Syria", but in actions is only directing one unit of the state government to not cooperate.

As Gaiseric points out, he could go a lot further if he really meant it. I'll go further and say that since he hasn't been generating screaming headlines from the MSM about resisting the immigrant tide from the south, it's hard to imagine he's not a cuckservative.

Blogger Bard November 17, 2015 3:33 PM  

Of course he is a cuck. Real men do not announce their intentions rhetorically, they boldly do them.

Blogger Bard November 17, 2015 3:35 PM  

The announcement wins him some political points and makes him feel better about himself. There, he did his part. Awe inspiring.

Blogger rumpole5 November 17, 2015 3:35 PM  

Re: "Do I smell a 400+ comment post in the air?" Mmmmm...Does the misquote of holy writ trump trashing boomers as dread ilk bait? It's a toss up.

Anonymous BigGaySteve November 17, 2015 3:35 PM  

it awfully difficult, though—refusing to recognize their welfare needs, refusing to provide housing, etc.

Once they get a section 8 voucher they can take it anywhere in the country.

Blogger YIH November 17, 2015 3:37 PM  

@36 VD:
I concur. But they are more needed in Lebanon. I would arrange to send all Middle Eastern Christians to Lebanon and to provide them with sufficient resources that they would be welcomed.
I concur with Vox, and I'd like to expand on that. 10 years ago many in ''the Christian community'' were arguing in favor of Iraqi Christian refugees to come to the US. Even then I was saying ''no, absolutely not'', and here's why; The current claim by 0bama and others that Syrian ''refugees'' will be ''screened'' and ''vetted''. When I replied ''yes, and Iraqis will claim that they are 'oppressed Christians' seeing it as 'the golden ticket' to the West even if they are jihadis who are attacking our troops there'' out came the same 'vetting' argument.
How would this 'screening' work? Bible quiz? There are the dynamics of time, available personnel, and volume of potential 'refugees'. Lebanon could indeed serve as ''the inn'' in the Biblical parable.
I've said it before, both Israel and Japan have stated ''We'll pony up cash, but you ain't coming here!''. Because Lebanon is about as small as Israel, perhaps setting up a cordoned-off section of Iraq (patrolled/guarded by US forces) may have to be necessary as well, but that's for another discussion.

Blogger Matamoros November 17, 2015 3:40 PM  

@60 BTW, Tyre and Sidon are not in Israel. Jesus was the foreigner.

Wrong. Jesus was an Israelite born in Galilee. Galilee was, at that time, a part of the Kingdom of Judea.

Anonymous DissidentRight November 17, 2015 3:50 PM  

Anti-Christian rhetoric uses “love your enemies” to mean “hate your family, friends, nation”.

We are called to love everyone, but when your enemies are threatening your friends, you must choose to either hate your enemies or hate your friends. If your enemies are the aggressors, that makes it easy.

However, the fact that Jesus paid for the sins of the world independent of tribe and nation (e.g., John 3:16) belies Jesus’ reaction to the Samaritan woman. The Jews were no more or less deserving of salvation than the Samaritans or Gentiles.

Who is your neighbor? The person who helps you.

“Love your neighbor as yourself” is exemplified by the Samaritan helping the helpless Jew. “Go and do likewise” means help everyone, at least those who need your help. It’s not “love ‘the person who helps you’ as yourself”, for “if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you?” Of course the Jew in the ditch would have loathed the Samaritan’s guts.

Blogger rumpole5 November 17, 2015 3:57 PM  

This world has a wealth of remote, uninhabited places where we could stick these folks. Inaccessible island, Accession, that island near Puerto Rico where we used to do our practice bombing... It would be far less disruptive to house and feed these folks in such a remote place for the duration of the Syrian conflict.

Blogger Matamoros November 17, 2015 4:04 PM  

Who is my brother:

Matt 12:50 "For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother."
Also Mark 3:35

So the answer is Catholics (and other Christians) are the only ones who have claims on us at all for being brother's and sister's because only they can claim to be doing the will of God; because without divine Faith it is impossible to please God.

Muslims explicitly reject the divinity of Christ, and the Christian Faith. Therefore....

Anonymous Quartermaster November 17, 2015 4:07 PM  

@167

Tyre and Sidon were not in Galilee. Jesus was born in Bethlehem, which not far from Jerusalem. He grew up in Nazareth and lived in Galilee as an adult.

Anonymous redsash November 17, 2015 4:15 PM  

There is only one scripture verse which is pertinent to the problem at hand. Acts 17: 26,27. "and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, that they would seek God,..."

So the Arabs/Muslims had their own lands, boundaries, nations. They increased their boundaries by deceit and violence. A Christian Europe defeated their expansion. Now, a non-Christian Europe, more powerful than ever, not only invites their expansion but seems powerless to stop the expansion even after the most grievous offenses by this moon god worshipping cult.

Europe, you might have good reason to be very very fearful for your God appointed time and boundaries may be drawing to a close. Might I suggest no more candles, no more teddy bears, no more flowers, but drop to your knees, seek Jesus and repent of your gross ungodliness. Don't feel lonely. America is not far behind. This is what happens when any people call good, evil and evil, good.

Russia and Putin have learned their lesson. Learned it from the peasant that Solzhenitsyn quoted. "All this has happened because we have forgotten God".

Blogger Nate November 17, 2015 4:22 PM  

"Come live in DC and its suburbs. It is overrun with agnostics, atheists, Hindus, and savages. There is not "plenty of room" for them -- you can't get away from the sonsobitches."

Why can't any of you read?


do you know what the word "occasional" means?

Blogger VD November 17, 2015 4:26 PM  

“Go and do likewise” means help everyone, at least those who need your help.

Help does not mean move them into your house and allow them to rape your family.

Blogger Sam Lively November 17, 2015 4:27 PM  

@157

Still disagree. I'm convinced most weak-kneed Christians would make an about-face on immigration once the existential threat to their families became clear. The problem is that they have very little skin in the game currently and so its easy for them to dismiss the concerns raised by non-family.

The two Christian leader types I know who are squishy and touchy-feely on immig are both insulated from the current fallout of immigration policy and both have been unable to have their own children (one has adopted internationally). One works in the financial sector and the other in the non-profit sector; neither industry is negatively affected by immigration. Both live in semi-rural areas where affordable family formation is still possible and immigrants are relatively scarce.

Blogger rumpole5 November 17, 2015 4:33 PM  

're: "I have never been an Arian" I regularly read your blog, and I recall comments that implied (or maybe, I just inferred) a rather unorthodox view of the doctrine of the Trinity, and Jesus's relationship to the Father. Was I mistaken? However, God's preservation of Ethiopia as a Christian nation might be some evidence that God is not entirely put off by Arians, because I believe that they are of that branch Christendom. To paraphrase Franklin: if we Christians don't hang together, we will hang separately.

Blogger Sam Lively November 17, 2015 4:38 PM  

@174

How about a pertinent Biblical case of emigration? Those wishing to show extreme piety by endangering their wives and daughters can follow Lot's example and move to Sodom.

Blogger Were-Puppy November 17, 2015 4:40 PM  

@39 Morgan
I have seen Muslims say the "sent only for the strayed sheep of Israel" to mean Jesus was sent only for Jews and no one else. What is the response to that point of view. What passage would be a response that Jesus was for all mankind?
---

Tell the caveman that they were late by at least 500 years on claiming the purposes of Jesus.

Blogger Markku November 17, 2015 4:43 PM  

Jhn 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Blogger Danby November 17, 2015 4:51 PM  

I know a family that decided this was the proper form of charity. They took in a young woman (24yo) with a 1 year old baby who had walked out on her husband, claiming abuse, etc, etc. Supposedly it was just helping her out for a couple of months while she got back on her feet.
Within a year their family was destroyed, charity case was pregnant with his kid, divorce under way.
After 5 years both daughters were declared lesbians, Dad was on his third wife, with yet another child on the way, Mom was an emotional wreck.
Now, 10 years on, both daughters are in bad hetero marriages. Mom paid an "Emotional-Cognitive Therapist" to make her into a lesbian, because she was completely incapable of getting laid by any man, and is in a "stable" lesbian relationship, and Dad has given up on marriage, but is working on his 5th child via 4 women, 3 of whom have a claim on his paycheck.

Don't take charity cases into your home.

Blogger Markku November 17, 2015 4:52 PM  

Also, more explicitly identifying the other sheep:

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Blogger Unknown November 17, 2015 4:54 PM  

Amen.

Anonymous DissidentRight November 17, 2015 4:58 PM  

Help does not mean move them into your house and allow them to rape your family.

It could mean that, in principle—in the sense that Jesus is reflected by the Samaritan and we are the Jew in the ditch, who (in our natural state) hate God. Jesus goes on to suffer death for those who hate him.

But the rhetoric ignores that if one of your neighbors is hurting another, you can’t simultaneously help both. Letting Muslims rape your family is a breach of “love your neighbor” (your family). So choose the lesser error. Naturally the Jews would have already considered others Jews to be their neighbors. The parable extends “neighbor” to people Jews hate: everyone.

YMMV, but this is the defense I am comfortable with as an LCMS Lutheran.

Blogger Nate November 17, 2015 5:03 PM  

"It could mean that, in principle—in the sense that Jesus is reflected by the Samaritan and we are the Jew in the ditch, who (in our natural state) hate God. Jesus goes on to suffer death for those who hate him."

Shut your whore mouth.

Blogger Kentucky Packrat November 17, 2015 5:08 PM  

A lot of the problem with Churchianity is that they're not much different than the "If you love me, you'll sleep with me" crowd: they think the only way to love is to do what they want done.

I love my son at the agape love level. He received hundreds of thousands of dollars of medical treatment (at pre-insurance retail costs) and over $5000 worth of just one type of medicine (that was out of pocket).

I also happened to love one of our dogs at (or pretty close to) the agape level. When her trachea started collapsing, she didn't get the $5000 surgery that she might not survive. She was put to sleep gently and lovingly.

I don't treat the dog like I'd treat my son, because they're not the same and not in the same situation. If I spoil my son with free housing and food, and never make him go get a job, it might be "loving", but it won't be right.

I can love my neighbor without filling every one of his wants and desires. I can love my enemy and wish that he were saved and that he didn't have to die, even while fighting said enemy. I don't have to sacrifice my life, my property, or my other neighbors to fulfill a sinful desire of someone else's part (remember, most of these "refugees" want the dole and to invade; it's not about safety for them).

The left and the Churchianity crew have no love of God in their heart, so their only choice is to "love" is with vapid hashtag campaigns, "awareness", and other people's money.

Blogger JaimeInTexas November 17, 2015 5:08 PM  

@167. Matamoros

Good grief! Read what I wrote again. I am referring to Jesus being a foreigner in Tyre and Sidon.

Blogger Curtis November 17, 2015 5:09 PM  

"...do you know what the word "occasional" means?"

Kind of like all those occasional Mexicans?

Anonymous redsash November 17, 2015 5:09 PM  

Man, I cannot believe how desperate the globalist elite are to foment an American revolution by bringing Islamists to these WASP shores.

Blogger Nate November 17, 2015 5:11 PM  

"Kind of like all those occasional Mexicans?"

again... dunno about what ever shit hole you're unfortunate enough to live in... but I can't even remember the last time I saw a mexican outside of the waiter at the local mexican resturaunt.

Maybe the people where you live should get their shit together.

Blogger Markku November 17, 2015 5:13 PM  

It could mean that, in principle—in the sense that Jesus is reflected by the Samaritan and we are the Jew in the ditch, who (in our natural state) hate God. Jesus goes on to suffer death for those who hate him.

No, the Samaritan is a Samaritan because the Jews loathed them. Samaritans only believed the Pentateuch to be Holy Scripture, and they had their own place of worship. So, they weren't under the authority structure of Israel Proper. I suppose we might compare it to the relationship between Christendom and Jehovah's Witnesses.

Blogger Rabbi B November 17, 2015 5:17 PM  

@188 redsash

POTUS gonna save us all!

Blogger S1AL November 17, 2015 5:17 PM  

@Nate - Right? Californians/Floridians/Texans, man. They think the world revolves around them.

Blogger Were-Puppy November 17, 2015 5:17 PM  

@166 YIH
How would this 'screening' work?
---

If they really wanted to come up with a screening quiz, they would have to do something that drives muslims bonkers. Something like crap, piss or light afire Korans. Or have them draw pictures of Mohammed, etc.

Blogger Markku November 17, 2015 5:18 PM  

Jesus also confirmed the Samaritan worship to be heresy, so he would never use a parable where he is the Samaritan.

Blogger Curtis November 17, 2015 5:21 PM  

@189. Nate

So, the next time Mexican migration comes up, you will be reminding us of all the noble Mexican migrants.

Rape/murder by Mexican migrant good, rape/murder by Muslim migrant bad.

;-)

Blogger Curtis November 17, 2015 5:27 PM  

@188. redsash

Man, I cannot believe how desperate the globalist elite are to foment an American revolution by bringing Islamists to these WASP shores.

To get a flavor of the drippings: https://twitter.com/marieharf

Anonymous DissidentRight November 17, 2015 5:30 PM  

@185

I can love my neighbor without filling every one of his wants and desires. I can love my enemy and wish that he were saved and that he didn't have to die, even while fighting said enemy.

But you can’t love your enemy and love your family while he is killing your family. Anyone who says “love the Muslim raping your sister” is saying “do not love your sister”, which proves he rejects the command “love everyone” and is therefore a liar.

If however, the Muslim is helpless in a ditch or otherwise thoroughly subjugated, he’s still your enemy —and you can now aid him without breaking the commandment.

The prophets, Jesus, and the apostles go on and on about helping the powerless. Never were we commanded to throw the powerless under the bus in the interests of loving the powerful.

@190

No, the Samaritan is a Samaritan because the Jews loathed them.

Yes. But the parable is also illustrative when you consider the Samaritan to be Jesus, the man to be yourself, the robbers to represent the the devil/world/sinful nature, and the Levite and Priest to be the Law (Old Covenant).

Samaritans only believed the Pentateuch to be Holy Scripture, and they had their own place of worship. So, they weren't under the authority structure of Israel Proper. I suppose we might compare it to the relationship between Christendom and Jehovah's Witnesses.

But that leaves off the racial aspect.

@194

That doesn’t follow. I’m also saying nothing more than that the parable can have multiple meanings. Parables are not coherent at every level.

Anonymous Bobbala November 17, 2015 5:42 PM  

Vox, you missed the single most important point of the good Samaritan ... he used his own money.

Blogger rcocean November 17, 2015 5:43 PM  

I love how everyone acts like their own Pope as if Christians haven't been thinking about these topics for 2000 years. Who ever thought the Good Samaritan story meant you had to have open borders? Almost nobody until about 20-30 years ago.

Anonymous Bah November 17, 2015 5:49 PM  

"Come live in DC and its suburbs. It is overrun with agnostics, atheists, Hindus, and savages. There is not "plenty of room" for them -- you can't get away from the sonsobitches."

Why can't any of you read?


do you know what the word "occasional" means?


Oh we know what it means when a cuck says it.

It means thin end of the wedge... camel's nose under the tent... anchor babies... first Mongol in the horde... first ant from the hive...

It means we are in phase one of the two-phase program:

1. The occasional alien freak is no big deal. We can live with it. Wonderful diversity! Delicious ethnic restaurants!

But phase two always follows...

2. The alien freak demographic is now so large that we cannot afford to anger them, much less threaten to deport them. We must be politically realistic. Neither party can afford to abandon the critical and growing alien freak vote.

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