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Wednesday, November 18, 2015

Paris attackers under siege

Some of them didn't escape back to Syria; SWAT siege in Saint-Denis:
BREAKING NEWS: One jihadi is shot dead and a woman suicide bomber blows herself up in dramatic gunfight at Paris apartment where mastermind of terror attacks is surrounded by 100 officers
  •     French police and special forces launch operation to storm Saint-Denis flat believed to contain up to six terrorists
  •     Mastermind behind Friday's massacres, Abdelhamid Abaaoud, 27, believed to be inside the Paris apartment
  •     Female suicide bomber detonated explosive vest after firing on police while one suspect killed by rooftop sniper
  •     Wanted man Salah Abdeslam, 26, who has been spotted in Belgium and Germany,  may also be inside rented flat
  •     Three people have been taken alive from flat and arrested as well as two others 'nearby' but stand-off is ongoing
Feel free to update in the comments. And so much for Saladin Taqiyya's attempt to spin the innocence of the Syrian migrants:
Riot police were clearing the streets early Wednesday, pointing guns at curious residents to move them off the roads and telling them to go home.

Mr Marie said the officers seemed nervous - 'you could see it in their eyes, ' he said.

Resident Amin Guizani, 21, said: 'There were grenades. It was going, stopping. Kalashnikovs. Starting again'.

Residents have been told to stay in their homes and away from windows and some have been moved to a temporary shelter in the town hall. Police have confirmed that several officers have been hurt.

Caroline Chomienne, who runs a film school, Altermedia, in St Denis, was trapped in the building next to where the assault took place.

'We'd been working all night on a film and my staff had been gone for some time when around 4.20am I heard shooting. Then they became louder and for on an hour it went on - bursts of fire from all sides but also sounds like bombs going off.

'The walls were shaking it was horrific. It was like war. It was Beirut.'

Now the director is thinking of quitting Paris.

'Something like this doesn't surprise me,' she told Le Parisien, 'that terrorists have hidden here. In this district the cellars are full of weapons. Outside there is a dealer every 100mtrs. It's common knowledge around here that people go and come back from Syria with ease.
UPDATE: Police gun battle at Paris apartment 'where ISIS mastermind was holed up' ends with his 'wife' blowing herself up with a suicide vest, one jihadi shot dead and seven arrested.

Five police wounded and one police dog KIA.

UPDATE II: Suspected Islamist militants uncovered in a Paris suburb by police were planning an attack on the French capital's La Defense business district, a source close to the investigation and two police sources said on Wednesday.

Labels: ,

113 Comments:

Anonymous Takin' a Look November 18, 2015 3:58 AM  

Uh.....what happened to the previous post?

(Not denigrating this one)

Anonymous Takin' a Look November 18, 2015 4:00 AM  

4:20?

Smoke 'em if you got 'em

Blogger Jon M November 18, 2015 4:04 AM  

This looks like a job for candles and flowers!

Blogger Sherwood family November 18, 2015 4:05 AM  

Let this finally be the start of a real effort to lance this festering carbuncle afflicting the hindquarters of Western civilization. Heaven knows the patient needs the relief and draining the pus and cutting out the necrotizing matter may let him, at long last, heal.

Blogger Shimshon November 18, 2015 4:16 AM  

Come now. This is France. Wouldn't that be SWATé, or Swatté, or even LeSWATé? Please don't mind me. I'm only concern-trolling.

Blogger chris November 18, 2015 4:21 AM  

Am I the only person here who recalls that the French will attack, anywhere, any time, if their interests are threatened? Including taking out Greenpeace in Auckland Harbour when I was a kid.

Salafist fools. The French ROE accept collateral damage.

Blogger dh November 18, 2015 4:39 AM  

Chris, I have to agree. I know the French reputation, but my personal interactions with the French lead me to different opinions. I love that they are unfazed by calls of "racism". Tell a Frenchmen he's "Equal" to an Algerian and you may get a fight.

Anonymous Bz November 18, 2015 4:45 AM  


'Something like this doesn't surprise me,' she told Le Parisien, 'that terrorists have hidden here. In this district the cellars are full of weapons. Outside there is a dealer every 100mtrs. It's common knowledge around here that people go and come back from Syria with ease.


And there is the festering wound underneath it all. The wise thing would be not just to chase a few bad guys around like a special episode of Cops, even if it's done quite competently, but to deny them their base of operations right in the heart of our lands. Because of the general incompetence and malignance of Western elites, doing that will be more painful than it ought to be. But it should be, must be, done.

Anonymous Aachen November 18, 2015 4:46 AM  

From what I am reading at the ISISSTUDYGROUP (blog and twitter) some of these people were part of a follow up cell planning to attack the business district. It might have one of the shooters from the other night there as well.

Regarding the Hannover incident indications is there was small amount of unwired explosives in the ambulance, to set off the dogs. Germany is having a hastily arranged security meeting indicating that there is something the public is being not told. It is part of the IS tactics to try and overwhelm security forces, mix in lots of fake threats with a real one to increases the chance of success and demoralise security services.

Also from what I have read this Paris cell was one half of a 20 man team sent to conduct attacks in Paris and London. 10 or so attackers to each location. London is likely to be hit next.

Blogger VD November 18, 2015 4:48 AM  

Come now. This is France. Wouldn't that be SWATé, or Swatté, or even LeSWATé?

Le train, elle est très bien.

Blogger Steve, the Dark Ninja of Mockery November 18, 2015 5:09 AM  

Mange tout, Dark Lord. Mange tout.

Blogger Remo - Vile Faceless Minion #99 November 18, 2015 5:41 AM  

Quick! Bomb the Syrian desert again - that'll help. Then spread flowers and peace signs around Paris and call it a day.

Anonymous Strange Aeons November 18, 2015 5:49 AM  

I think I missed a day of class...or two.
What's the train/fine reference about?

#0017

Blogger Steve, the Dark Ninja of Mockery November 18, 2015 5:55 AM  

Strange Aeons - Choo choo

Anonymous Strange Aeons November 18, 2015 6:08 AM  

Merci buckets.
Saw that, just wondering if anything preceded it. Sounds random...but maybe that's the point.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan November 18, 2015 6:09 AM  

Now if only some SJW would get caught in the crossfire

Blogger Lovekraft November 18, 2015 6:12 AM  

I guess Black Lives Matter will thrown another hissyfit about how attention is taken away from their 'injustice.'

Anonymous FriarBob November 18, 2015 6:22 AM  

From his rhetorical slams of a sjw nitwit on Twitter (and repeated here) the other day.

Blogger Cataline Sergius November 18, 2015 6:24 AM  

@5 Shimson

Come now. This is France. Wouldn't that be SWATé, or Swatté, or even LeSWATé? Please don't mind me. I'm only concern-trolling.

The raid was conducted by (*eye roll*) RAID or the Recherche Assistance Intervention Dissuasion . My Frog is still good enough that I can tell they picked the acronym first then filled in the letter with words.

Sort of like the Strategic Hazard Intervention Espionage Logistics Directorate but in real life...or at least in France.

Anonymous HHS November 18, 2015 6:25 AM  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjuVVlSgYLc

Anonymous Weak November 18, 2015 6:25 AM  

Odd calling the ringleader a "mastermind". As if it took a genius to figure out a plan to attack four of the hundreds of thousands unguarded soft targets in the city. This isn't exactly ASL tactics on display.

Blogger John S November 18, 2015 6:50 AM  

He isn't asking for another use of the train line Steve, but what it's referencing. That would be this...

Anonymous PhillipGeorge©2015 November 18, 2015 6:54 AM  

Everything you need to know about Islam, Muhammad, and integration is in this video of a friendly between Greece and Turkey. When asked to pause for a moments silence for the Paris dead the crowd spontaneously erupted in Allah hu Akbar.
To their shame the Greece stayed for the match.

this is what islam thinks of your feelings


You see the bit that disappoints me is Greece playing the game. The rest is no surprise,

OpenID basementhomebrewer November 18, 2015 7:04 AM  

'Something like this doesn't surprise me,' she told Le Parisien, 'that terrorists have hidden here. In this district the cellars are full of weapons. Outside there is a dealer every 100mtrs. It's common knowledge around here that people go and come back from Syria with ease.

If she knew/knows her neighbors are involved in terrorism maybe she point the authorities in the proper directions?

Blogger Mr.MantraMan November 18, 2015 7:07 AM  

As for the refugee games goes I see the SJW are doubling down on their rhetoric, now the president of the country sounds like Johnny Con.

Note; listening to Limbaugh yesterday because I was a prisoner in my car I did find something unusual for a conservative, instead of the usual throwing verbal stones at the Cult Leader Maximus he verbally went after the weak spot, the cultists of the D party

Blogger CM November 18, 2015 7:17 AM  

instead of the usual throwing verbal stones at the Cult Leader Maximus he verbally went after the weak spot, the cultists of the D party

He's been doing that for a while. I actually strongly suspect he reads VD. He's been far less about "Democrats always lie" and far more likely to go after the idiots in both parties.

Blogger Sanne November 18, 2015 7:21 AM  

On SkyNews an American reporter just called the terrorists Europeans...I mean we all know that Ahmed, Abdoul and Mohammed are typical French and Belgian names, don't we?

Anonymous Shut up rabbit November 18, 2015 7:23 AM  

They're blaming muslim ghettos in France for radicalising these scum.

The ghettoisation in France is 100% self-imposed. No other country does as much to enforce "mixité" ("mixing" in the "of cultures" sense) than France. One third of every housing project is required by law to be reserved for social housing, a large percentage of the rest are reserved for "aide à logement" basically subsidised rental AND on top of that, buy-to-renters get tax benefits if they submit to rent controls.

I live in what is supposed to be the nicest part of town, I paid a fucking fortunate to be here yet I'm surrounded by the work shy, the unintegrated and the theologically backward living in the same conditions as me.

Each building has 10-20% owner occupiers, most of the rest being various populations of subsidised renters. I have friends who would love to move here but are excluded because they earn to much to qualify for the subsidise which the landlords want.

It's not ghettos where immigrants are "forced to live" - they are just areas where they've driven out the indigenous population and live in the manner to which they are accustomed - police no go areas with WHO vaccination centres just like the countries they left behind (in some cases, generations ago).

The whole fucking country is a ghetto!

Blogger Nate November 18, 2015 7:33 AM  

"Am I the only person here who recalls that the French will attack, anywhere, any time, if their interests are threatened? Including taking out Greenpeace in Auckland Harbour when I was a kid.

Salafist fools. The French ROE accept collateral damage. "

Americans base all of their opinions on France's concern trolling after 9-11. What we forget is... how france tells others to react to an attack... and how France itself reacts to an attack.. are not even remotely related.

Blogger Dexter November 18, 2015 7:44 AM  

his 'wife' blowing herself up with a suicide vest,

But da innocent wimminz refugees are totally unlike the men!

And NASWALT!

Blogger JaimeInTexas November 18, 2015 7:50 AM  

The first 15 to 30 minutes of Rush's show contains all that might be worth listening. Yesterday I turned the radio off. He was unusually strong in his propaganda, talking about a "throw away" statement by some State Dept. about Assad not bombing ISIS/L oil fields because Assad buys oil from ISIS/L. In other words, Assad is in cahoots with ISIS/L.

Blogger bob k. mando November 18, 2015 7:53 AM  

17. Lovekraft November 18, 2015 6:12 AM
I guess Black Lives Matter



i think you meant to say, 'Black Lies Matter'?


28. Shut up rabbit November 18, 2015 7:23 AM
They're blaming muslim ghettos in France for radicalising these scum.



read through the behavior patterns of Narcissists:
http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/characteristics-of-narcissistic-mothers/


notice how many of these tactics you've seen used in real life, IN THE POLITICAL ARENA by sjws and leftists like BlackLiesMatter? (the seriousness of the charge is what warrants investigation ... unless someone of the Right makes the accusation, in which case we ignore it )

yeah, that's something else i've been pointing out for a while.

OpenID anonymos-coward November 18, 2015 8:03 AM  

and a woman suicide bomber
It's always a woman suicide bomber. Why? Because they're not blowing themselves up for free, their families are getting paid for it. From the Muslim point of view, no sense in wasting a man's life if a woman nets as much money.

Of course, mentioning the facts about who funds terrorism is taboo, so enjoy your pointless rage fantasies about 'le reconquista'.

Anonymous Rhys O'Reilly November 18, 2015 8:23 AM  

It is part of the IS tactics to try and overwhelm security forces, mix in lots of fake threats with a real one to increases the chance of success and demoralise security services.

Meanwhile in Australia there was a report of a gunman/bomb in the Sydney CBD requiring evacuations but it all turned out to be an apparent hoax....

Blogger bob k. mando November 18, 2015 8:32 AM  

33. anonymos-coward November 18, 2015 8:03 AM
It's always a woman suicide bomber.



how hard do you have to work in order to remain this ignorant? all the women and children suicide bombers put together barely amount to 10% of the total. and there's WAY more children suicide bombers than adult women.

http://myrightword.blogspot.com/2008/11/statistics-of-suicide-bombers.html

does Islam have any particular regard for their women? no. but bomb-vesting is still a young man's game.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother November 18, 2015 9:11 AM  

Guys they found a passport! This is all a false flag!

Blogger Christopher November 18, 2015 9:11 AM  

"long blonde hair..." Big color among Syrian girls?

Blogger Josh November 18, 2015 9:19 AM  

Americans base all of their opinions on France's concern trolling after 9-11

Not 9/11...but their refusal to join the Coalition of the Willing in the Iraq War.

Blogger Student in Blue November 18, 2015 9:20 AM  

"long blonde hair..." Big color among Syrian girls?

Likely dyed or bleached, considering she was confused as Abaaoud's cousin.

A woman 'with long blonde hair' who may be Abaaoud's jihadi bride or cousin is said to have fired her AK-47 at police before blowing herself up as an assault squad stormed their hideout.

Unintentional hilarity there. "jihadi bride OR cousin"

Must be one of those "inclusive or"s.

Blogger Josh November 18, 2015 9:20 AM  

Guys they found a passport! This is all a false flag!

WAKE UP SHEEPLE!!!

Blogger Rez Zircon November 18, 2015 9:24 AM  

"In this district the cellars are full of weapons."

In that case, you Parisians know where to find exactly what you need.

Anonymous Geoff November 18, 2015 9:51 AM  

bomb-vesting is still a young man's game

Yes. They peak around 21 yrs old. The body tends to fall apart after that.

Blogger Jourdan November 18, 2015 9:53 AM  

My French friends, who largely live in the west (Normandy, Brittany, Vacluse) tell me that every town there has a cellar with weapons smuggled in my local soldiers for use "in case."

Additionally of interest, there was a poll in Le Figaro yesterday that showed 40% support for a "non-democratic authoritarian regime to correct France's problems."

Blogger Doom November 18, 2015 10:04 AM  

Picking one part of the dog to remove fleas does nothing when the whole dog is infested.

Some have asked why islamists would attack now. It's to prove to the natives that their government won't protect them. It's to flaunt their power in foreign nations. France, most likely, will protect muslims over the lives of it's own people, just like America does, and did even under Bush and after 9/11.

Is it oil money being slipped into pockets? Is it a pure secularization of Western governments that makes them hate Christians, whites, normalcy, and rightness? I have suspicions that it's bits of both, and more. And yet people keep voting, with their ballot, wallets, and feet. Is it also the people, or the majority of them? The ones who believe 'we deserve it', or hate us conservatives, the real ones anyway, and don't mind dying to bring in something that will attempt to kill us? Crazy.

Blogger daddynichol November 18, 2015 10:16 AM  

All these terrorist battles are going to screw up the big Racism Is Really Really Bad concert scheduled on American TV.

Blogger haus frau November 18, 2015 10:30 AM  

That poor dog. Not a single terrorist is worth the value of that brave animal.

Blogger Skylark Thibedeau November 18, 2015 10:32 AM  

Time for the Third Empire Vive l'empereur !

Anonymous WillBest November 18, 2015 10:45 AM  

News of last nights battle between ISIS and France on French soil still hasn't broken on my wife's FB page. But there was a fresh batch of 2-3 articles from every libtard about GOP bigotry, and shaming. I am sort of amazed that they are going all in on this.

Blogger Miguel D'Anconia November 18, 2015 10:51 AM  

What's the best way to keep rodent droppings off your kitchen counter tops?
Don't let the rodents into your house to begin with.
Nuff said.

Blogger Jourdan November 18, 2015 10:56 AM  

@47 They could do worse! The current Imperial pretender is actually a fairly impressive man. Certainly preferable to the Bourbon or Orleans option.

Blogger Marie November 18, 2015 11:12 AM  

In a number of discussions about the refugees the moderates eventually bring up the fact that we have failed to protect the US against home-grown threats. This appears to act as a reset button and everyone retreats back to their default of "We need to be a good nation and help the poor helpless people."

How does our failure to stop people like McVeigh have anything to do with the security risk posed by the refugees?

How should I respond? All of the conversations were engaging up to that point and it appeared the moderates were listening and considering my arguments.

This happened four different times yesterday. I swear they have a cheat-sheet somewhere.

Blogger Jourdan November 18, 2015 11:36 AM  

Marie - I think the best response is that any society will have its share of evil to contend with and that is bad enough without inviting more danger to deal with, especially in a country that has had for decades deep racial divides to begin with, followed by pointing out that there are 39 states in the Organization of Islamic Countries classified as wealthy which have taken in zero refugees to date.

OpenID Jack Amok November 18, 2015 11:44 AM  

The ghettoisation in France is 100% self-imposed.

Mais oui. Much easier to stuff the cellars full of weapons and set up bomb-making factories without a bunch of pesky natives around. Also much easier to keep control of the women and children and the less devout men when the leaders can keep them all under close observation.

Your comment that they live in places "just like the countries they left behind" makes it pretty clear they don't want to live in our culture. They want to live in their own culture, they just want our territory.

Fuck the invaders and their sponsors. That should translate into a few languages.

Anonymous Athor Pel November 18, 2015 11:52 AM  

"51. Blogger Marie November 18, 2015 11:12 AM
In a number of discussions about the refugees the moderates eventually bring up the fact that we have failed to protect the US against home-grown threats. This appears to act as a reset button and everyone retreats back to their default of "We need to be a good nation and help the poor helpless people."

How does our failure to stop people like McVeigh have anything to do with the security risk posed by the refugees?

How should I respond? All of the conversations were engaging up to that point and it appeared the moderates were listening and considering my arguments.

This happened four different times yesterday. I swear they have a cheat-sheet somewhere. "




Bringing muslims into a nation guarantees muslim violence. They want more violence on top of what we already have.

Or you could go for the throat. Ask them why they want their wives and daughters raped and murdered.

OpenID Jack Amok November 18, 2015 11:53 AM  

Jourdan, that's the dialectic response. I suspect the number of moderates it will work on is small and shrinking (moderates capable of the logic you laid out are, ahem, un-moderating themselves). Marie needs a good rhetorical response. Maybe something built on the 'wealthy Islamic countries have taken zero refugees" part.

At some point (perhaps we've already reached it) open expressions of racism will work too. Most milquetoast moderates don't really like Arabs, but pretend not to have any problem with them because they think that's the attitude of the popular club. Making it okay to express dislike for people who spread violence and misery everywhere they go will flip a whole bunch of moderates to our side.

Blogger JaimeInTexas November 18, 2015 11:55 AM  

@51. Marie

When one of kids get lice, you deal with it and certainly you do not bring a bunch of other people kids into the house, especially, when it is know that some of those other kids also have lice.

Anonymous BigGaySteve November 18, 2015 12:01 PM  

Cuck Kerry Remarks to the Staff and Families of U.S. Embassy, Paris Hebo attack legitimate :"There’s something different about what happened from Charlie Hebdo, and I think everybody would feel that.There was a sort of particularized focus and perhaps even a legitimacy in terms of ...This Friday was absolutely indiscriminate. It wasn’t to aggrieve one particular sense of wrong."

'that terrorists have hidden here. In this district the cellars are full of weapons. Outside there is a dealer every 100mtrs
Am I the only person here who recalls that the French will attack, anywhere, any time, if their interests are threatened?

Snowden released the Rivkin document that explained the plan to turn France from a nation that banned McDonalds1970s into this.

This looks like a job for candles and flowers! Molotovs & hemlock


OT: Bobby Jindel's missing jihadi found in DC"The Louisiana governor Bobby Jindal, was unaware his state was receiving Syrian Refugees until he watched the news and saw it on television. This prompted a letter to federal authorities and to President Obama."
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/11/17/whoopsie-missing-syrian-refugee-found-in-washington-dc/#more-108570

I guess Black Lives Matter will thrown another hissyfit about how attention is taken away from their 'injustice.'

They will protest because the one with the bomb vest was shot in the back with hands up

Odd calling the ringleader a "mastermind". As if it took a genius to figure out a plan to attack four Genius for a moslem.

If she knew/knows her neighbors are involved in terrorism maybe she point the authorities in the proper directions?

That would be a hate crime almost as bad as saying it would be impossible to round up 6million illegal aliens.

How does our failure to stop people like McVeigh have anything to do with the security risk posed by the refugees?

We should thank McVeigh because without him there would have been more Wacos. The reason Eric Holder pissed himself and pulled people out of the Bundy ranch was someone reposted an open letter to him stating NO MORE FREE WACOS which pointed out if you wanted to help the Bundy's you should take out your local govt a-hole while every 1/4 competent eye the govt has is on the ranch. Of course the Madame Revisionist History Secretary Clinton show rewrote the history of both.

Blogger Curtis November 18, 2015 12:05 PM  

The controllers are getting desperate.

The Russian President has shared Kremlin’s intelligence data on Islamic State financing with fellow G20 members. According to his report the extremists get funds from 40 countries, including some G20 member states.

https://youtu.be/sihKTN4QLfA

No! TP'sTB are a bunch of Boy Scouts and virgins!

Blogger Jourdan November 18, 2015 12:21 PM  

@57 BigGaySteve

I'm NOT a fan of the current Secretary of State, and there are plenty of grounds on which to criticize him, but his speech you quote is not one of them. He immediately self-corrected what he had said and then explained his point. Here is the text of the relevant portion:

There’s something different about what happened from Charlie Hebdo, and I think everybody would feel that. There was a sort of particularized focus and perhaps even a legitimacy in terms of – not a legitimacy, but a rationale that you could attach yourself to somehow and say, okay, they’re really angry because of this and that. This Friday was absolutely indiscriminate. It wasn’t to aggrieve one particular sense of wrong. It was to terrorize people. It was to attack everything that we do stand for. That’s not an exaggeration. It was to assault all sense of nationhood and nation-state and rule of law and decency, dignity, and just put fear into the community and say, “Here we are.” And for what? What’s the platform? What’s the grievance? That we’re not who they are? They kill people because of who they are and they kill people because of what they believe. And it’s indiscriminate. They kill Shia. They kill Yezidis. They kill Christians. They kill Druze. They kill Ismaili. They kill anybody who isn’t them and doesn’t pledge to be that. And they carry with them the greatest public display of misogyny that I’ve ever seen, not to mention a false claim regarding Islam. It has nothing to do with Islam; it has everything to do with criminality, with terror, with abuse, with psychopathism – I mean, you name it.

And that’s why when some people – I even had a member of my own family email me and say, “More bombs aren’t the solution,” they said. Well, in principle, no. In principle, if you can educate and change people and provide jobs and make a difference if that’s what they want, sure. But in this case, that’s not what’s happening. This is just raw terror to set up a caliphate to expand and expand and spread one notion of how you live and who you have to be. That is the antithesis of everything that brought our countries together – why Lafayette came to America to help us find liberty, and all of the evolutions of the struggles of France, the governments, to find the liberte, egalite, fraternite, and make it real in life every day. And all of that peacefulness was shattered in the span of an hour-plus on Friday night when people were going about their normal business. And they purposefully chose a concert, chose restaurants, chose places where people engage in social dialogue and exchange, and they object to that too.

Blogger Tom K. November 18, 2015 12:24 PM  

And perhaps like the police in Sweden, they just didn't care.

Don't know. Just guessing. Why wouldn't she tell the police unless she thought it wouldn't do any good. After all, she's not a hairhated hoodrat.

OpenID denektenorsk November 18, 2015 12:24 PM  

Why arrest them? They fired on your military and are therefore enemy combatants. End. Of. Story. Give them what they want, which is death.

Blogger Tom K. November 18, 2015 12:29 PM  

Thanks for the local perspective. I had heard that France created these ghettoes to preserve "multiculturalism".

Birds of a feather...

It's seems to be only whites who are willing to live with "others" in peace.

And to think I grew up believing races could mix in peace. Reality proved me wrong.

Blogger Tom K. November 18, 2015 12:32 PM  

How about dem orphans and widows?

I'm beginning to understand why God once said to "kill them all." In the primitive brain the cancer runs deep.

Blogger Noah B #120 November 18, 2015 12:35 PM  

Did anyone see the pictures of French SWAT carrying Mini-14's? Paging Nate...

Blogger Noah B #120 November 18, 2015 12:37 PM  

"And to think I grew up believing races could mix in peace. Reality proved me wrong."

Multiethnic coexistence looks a lot like Mexico or former Yugoslavia. Hardly peaceful.

Anonymous Karl Müller November 18, 2015 12:37 PM  

And Merkel still says Refugees Welcome.

Blogger The Other Robot November 18, 2015 12:44 PM  

In a number of discussions about the refugees the moderates eventually bring up the fact that we have failed to protect the US against home-grown threats.

If your house is on fire, do you throw some gasoline on it and hope that it fixes the problem?

Blogger Markku November 18, 2015 12:49 PM  

I'm beginning to understand why God once said to "kill them all."

I have thought the exact same thing. I used to feel a bit iffy about killing the women and children in the OT wars. Now I feel zero iffiness.

Blogger Marie November 18, 2015 12:53 PM  

Thanks! You all have some good suggestions, I'm going to try a few of them out and see what gets the best response.

They are terrible communicators. There is some concern under the argument that since we can't protect against domestic threats we shouldn't worry about new ones coming over the border. Until I address that concern (either with dialectic or rhetoric) they are going to fly back to square one and double down on the narrative.

They've always done this. The only way to get them to stop promoting the popular narrative is to knock down every objection they have. I wouldn't bother except they vote and tweet and talk loudly to other people who vote.

Blogger Chiva November 18, 2015 12:55 PM  

@46 haus frau. I salute that police dog. My wife and I participate in Schutzhund and have worked with some police dogs in our area.

We felt more for the dead police dog than for the dead terrorists.

Blogger Tom K. November 18, 2015 12:59 PM  

Or how about, "McVeigh wasn't part of any organized group of home grown terrorist. He was a one-off.

Every Muslim is one revival sermom away from being " radicalized."

Blogger Sam vfm #111 November 18, 2015 1:07 PM  

@55 "Maybe something built on the 'wealthy Islamic countries have taken zero refugees" part. "

That is because they don't consider them "refugees" but soldiers sent to invade the non-Muslim countries.

"One day, millions of men will leave the Southern Hemisphere to go to the Northern Hemisphere. And they will not go there as friends. Because they will go there to conquer it. And they will conquer it with their sons. The wombs of our women will give us victory."
Boumedienne's UN Speech: "The wombs of our women will give us victory"

Blogger Were-Puppy November 18, 2015 1:08 PM  

@46 haus frau
That poor dog. Not a single terrorist is worth the value of that brave animal.
---

True. I had a neighbor once was a k9 cop, and those dogs are very friendly.

Blogger Tom K. November 18, 2015 1:09 PM  

Or how about, "McVeigh wasn't part of any organized group of home grown terrorist. He was a one-off.

Every Muslim is one revival sermom away from being " radicalized."

Blogger Were-Puppy November 18, 2015 1:10 PM  

@48 WillBest
But there was a fresh batch of 2-3 articles from every libtard about GOP bigotry, and shaming. I am sort of amazed that they are going all in on this.
---

The lefties and sjws bubble maintenance is in high gear because those bubbles are very close to popping.

Anonymous BigGaySteve November 18, 2015 1:23 PM  

59 Jourdon I'm NOT a fan of the current Secretary of State... but his speech you quote is not one of them.

I am sorry I but when I read what you quoted my mind translated it as " they absolutely indiscriminate rape & kill a lot, she shouldn't have said the N word knowing what they are like" "throw money and majick dirt at them" " Lafayette make peace symbol at redcoats" "equalityism"

Blogger Skylark Thibedeau November 18, 2015 1:27 PM  

@50 Prince Jerome Napolean Bonaparte is actually a descendant of both the Imperiale and the Royal Houses of France.

Blogger Jourdan November 18, 2015 1:28 PM  

Yup, BigGaySteve, that's right, and the content is terrible, BUT he clearly didn't mean to say "legitimate" with regard to the Chalie Hebdo attacks, he corrected himself immediately on that point. That's what I meant.

Blogger Sanne November 18, 2015 1:37 PM  

I found it horrible for the dog, too.

Anonymous aegis-1080 November 18, 2015 1:41 PM  

Hollande is doubling up on the cucking, took him long enough. Honestly, lefties are pretty much on the "They hate us for our freedom" Kool-Aid. Good thing is that people tend to drop the pretenses when there's an actual risk of getting killed. I see this woldwide wave of rejection against the bullshit that the progs are selling.

Blogger chris November 18, 2015 1:42 PM  

Wel, the Chief Sodomite has decided the official hashtag for the white house is #refugeeswelcome.

This is not doubling down. This is a triple somersault over a shark dressed as Elvis. The foolishness of the Social Justice petunia is great there. Time to ensure the man is a crippled duck, those of you in the USA. Keep him completely out of the loop.

You do need adults running a country of your size.

Blogger White Devil November 18, 2015 1:47 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Danby November 18, 2015 2:05 PM  

@61 denektenorsk
Why arrest them? They fired on your military and are therefore enemy combatants. End. Of. Story. Give them what they want, which is death.

They have information, which can be extracted.

Anonymous map November 18, 2015 2:07 PM  

Marie,

Regarding McVeigh, there is, in general, a serious misunderstanding about terrorist acts committed by him and guys like Breivik, and terrorist acts committed by jihadis. Militia-style terrorism has a symmetry between their grievances and their targets. If Breivik or McVeigh complain about the government, then they attack government targets. This means that 99% of the population is not affected by their actions.

Jihadis have no symmetry between grievances and targets. They will complain about some bombing in their own countries, but then make beelines toward coffee shops and concert venues, instead of attacking the government officials that ordered their murders in the first place.

In other words, Jihadis are a far greater threat because their actions resemble an enemy tribe waging war on another tribe. Breiviks and McVeighs can operate every day and the most anyone will notice is an interruption of the Kim Kardashian news feed.

Anonymous Yid Kid November 18, 2015 2:39 PM  

Marie (51 & 69).

"The only way to get them to stop promoting the popular narrative is to knock down every objection they have"

Actually, you're still thinking in dialectic there. If they're rhetoricians, their center of gravity is their self-image. You have to knock THAT down, not their arguments.

Moderates in the Peanut Gallery must see that they are bad people who will hurt them, and incidentally that SJW assertions can have holes poked in them easily. Not comprehensively refuted - wrong mode. Just obvious untruths pointed out in passing with a quick article reference. With asides about "Did you really not know that?," or "That doesn't feel like it's on the level, it's obviously untrue."

One line I've seen was something like:

"Your fellow citizens are not blood sacrifices for someone's moral vanity. Anyone who would sacrifice their safety to make themselves feel good, would sacrifice anything we have for any reason."

That's an R-D-R pattern. For the men here, note the deniable dissociation pattern. That ambiguity can be turned on them if they object - "Odd, I never mentioned you specifically..." This package also puts the emotional bait up front to almost force a response, leaving the rest of your assertion to just sit there and stew. In the middle is a dialectic about what citizenship is about, framed in a way that's inherently poisonous to SJWs. The end establishes the SJW as a broader threat to the moderates, using "we".

For the "some will get through" stupidity, ask them if they should remove all police from where they live, because we can't eradicate crime. Then add something along the lines of "You seem to want us all to live in a war zone like Baltimore; no thank you. We have enough problems, don't you think?"

Yes, there's a Gamma/Feminine tell in there. Talk to the natives in their native language. That a D-R-R pattern, with the bait in the middle. Of course they'll say Baltimore has police. Now you close in with: "Unless those in charge give orders not to protect, and offer "Space to Destroy." Why are you always eager to do that with other people's spaces?"

Etc. You see how this sort of thing goes?

* Always make sure Rhetoric is primary, and Dialectic secondary.
* Always have bait to use as a red cape.
* Always leave a second shiv they'll probably ignore, aimed at eroding their standing with onlookers.
* Always attack self-image, and make other people view them with suspicion/ fear/ distrust (this is called "tagging," and words like "racism" service this function for SJWs).
* Their responses are predictable. Use that.
* Their hostile questions are to be ridiculed at premise, or dismissed as a "vivid imagination." Not answered. Your frame, never theirs.

Go git 'em.

Blogger Were-Puppy November 18, 2015 3:31 PM  

@51 Marie

This happened four different times yesterday. I swear they have a cheat-sheet somewhere.
---

You're bearing witness to the hive mind in action. It's some kind of signaling that I don't understand, but you can easily see it in action.

Blogger Were-Puppy November 18, 2015 3:34 PM  

@57 BigGaySteve

Cuck Kerry
---

Kerry is not a cuck. He's a flat out commie sympathizer. He's old school stupid from before my time.

Blogger Were-Puppy November 18, 2015 3:47 PM  

@72 Sam vfm #111
@55 "Maybe something built on the 'wealthy Islamic countries have taken zero refugees" part. "

That is because they don't consider them "refugees" but soldiers sent to invade the non-Muslim countries.

"One day, millions of men will leave the Southern Hemisphere to go to the Northern Hemisphere. And they will not go there as friends. Because they will go there to conquer it. And they will conquer it with their sons. The wombs of our women will give us victory."
Boumedienne's UN Speech: "The wombs of our women will give us victory"
---

This reminds me of that old video game Gauntlet. Remember those ghosts, and they would keep coming at you until you clobbered those pile of rags that kept issuing them forth?

Blogger Floyd Looney November 18, 2015 3:49 PM  

Meanwhile France will take in another 30,000 Syrian refugees

Blogger Danby November 18, 2015 3:54 PM  

@85 Yid Kid
Thanks for that. That kind of breakdown is very helpful, at least to me.
Have you considered writing a book? I'm pretty sure I know a publisher that would carry it.

Anonymous Yid Kid November 18, 2015 4:28 PM  

Danby,

Actually, I was thinking the same thing after recent announcements. It has been done by Coulter, Schlichter, et. al., but I think there's a niche at the 4.99 slot for something that's shorter, more Coles Notesy, and at the level of a semi throw-away commitment. Kind of your AR-7 for the Internet Wars. In a perfect world, It would be a collaboration with Martel from Alpha is Assumed. Man, I miss that blog.

I'll add as a free suggestion to our Dark Lord that SJWs Always Lie can become a full franchise. "SJWs Always Lie: Saving Your Church" jumps to mind. That would bring The Orthosphere into the game for Castalia, not just as a marketing channel but as part of a research effort that would simultaneously act as outreach and buzz-builder. The 50-yeard field goal would be to get enough interested allies to push it to Hugh Hewitt or Rush - but it would need to come before Cuckservative starts the war.

(Thought for Vox - and it's a Jew suggesting this - channel your inner Heartiste for Cuckservatives. Less of the Kurgan style, much more shivvy goodness. Admittedly, Cernovich is probably better for the foreword than GBFM.)

Martel and Yid Kid. Man, how triggering would that book cover be to the Islamic hipsters?

Blogger Geir Balderson November 18, 2015 4:30 PM  

@ 89

They take them in to give their riot police practice with Islamic Terrorists. Because, who knows, it might get serious when a million Syrians are allowed in!! Whoo Hooo,,stupidity is bred in France and England and Germany , and Sweden,,,,and well the mighty USofA!!!

Blogger SciVo November 18, 2015 5:11 PM  

@ Marie: Keep it simple and stay on point. A hypothetical exchange:

SJW: Americans kill Americans too!

VFM: Less Americans killed is better than more. Don't you agree?

SJW: Yes but Unibomber!

VFM: I say that not one extra American killed is worth an ego boost from do-gooding.

SJW: Churches! Private charity!

VFM: Unlike their fundamentalists, ours don't kill people for God. And you still haven't agreed that less Americans killed is better than more.

[Note: Technically he agreed, but not really until he opposes open borders, and you just distracted him with equivalence bait.]

SJW: Abortion clinics!

VFM: No, that's killing to stop murder, which secularists like you condone. And you still haven't said how much of an increase in Americans being killed is an acceptable price for your goodfeelz.

SJW: Abortion is not murder!

VFW: Stop trying to change the subject. We're talking about how immigration is murder.

SJW: Is not!

VFM: You obviously want more Americans killed, since you refuse to say that you don't, or even to say how many American deaths your ego is worth.

SJW: Racist sexist homophobic shitlord!

VFM: I rest my case.

Blogger Danby November 18, 2015 5:19 PM  

@93 SciVo
Way too dialectic. Start right off with the rhetoric
SJW: Americans kill Americans too!
VFM: So it's okay to bring in more murderers and rapists? Why do you hate women so much?
SJW: But McVeigh
VFM: Is it some kind of rape fantasy you have? Held down and forced by a swarthy, violent man?

I'm not sure where the Hamster runs at that point, but it's going to abandon the original line of thought.

Blogger Marie November 18, 2015 5:24 PM  

Gold. You all are pure gold.

Thank you, everyone for your insights on McVeigh. I'm sure the fact I was born and raised in Kansas had _nothing_ to do with his name coming up three out of four times yesterday. That hive mind is creepy.

@85 Yid Kid.

Thank you for the breakdown and examples that is very useful. I'll work on using rhetoric more.

I'm happy you made the point about self-esteem. I got close enough to damage that yesterday but backed off. I keep thinking there has to be another way. But if that's what it takes to get through.....they certainly don't treat my self-image with kid gloves.


Thanks again for the pointers. I'm off to find some SJWs to practice on.

Blogger Were-Puppy November 18, 2015 5:37 PM  

@93 SciVo
@ Marie: Keep it simple and stay on point. A hypothetical exchange:

SJW: Americans kill Americans too!

VFM: Then if Americans kill muslims, that means more Americans live! I agree!

Blogger Marie November 18, 2015 5:42 PM  

@ 93 SciVo

If I ever get one of them to call me a shitlord I am totally taking a screenshot and bring it back here for my "atta girl."

@94 Danby

"I'm not sure where the Hamster runs at that point, but it's going to abandon the original line of thought."

The new line of thought is going to require eye and brain bleach. Is that why you all are faceless?

Blogger SciVo November 18, 2015 5:48 PM  

@ Danby and Yid Kid:

I would buy and read that book.

Blogger Danby November 18, 2015 7:37 PM  

I picked that response for two reasons
1) it completely derails the line of thought
2) in a significant percentage of cases, it will actually be true, which makes it doubly effective.

Anonymous Yid Kid November 18, 2015 10:19 PM  

Danby @94 Nice.

Marie @97 "The new line of thought is going to require eye and brain bleach."

At that point, I can't help you. May I introduce Sensei Steve?

SciVo @98 Hmmm, small sample but definite interest. Always a good Lean Startup sort of tell. I do have some things I cannot take off my plate, so I actually may not be the guy for this given the timing issue re: Cuckservatives.

But I think I owe it everyone to take as much feedback as I can find, and put together a pitch. It may work out. Or, if Castalia decides they like but I'm not the guy, I'm sure they can find others. Key questions:

* Does the idea of "War to the Knife: Winning Online Fights" (or whatever) appeal as a concept? Chapter 1 WILL be titled "The Train Is Fine".

* It's not like there's a huge shortage of books on how to argue, or even how to argue politics. If you like the idea, what would make this book different and interesting to you?

* How would you know that this book had been a worthwhile purchase, 90 days after you bought it?

* If we gave Steve a chapter, because this is after all a very visual medium, what would you want to learn? >;->

Anonymous Bird on a Wing November 18, 2015 10:19 PM  

Hey Marie, here's an exchange from my Facebook for some more rhetorical ideas.

Anne: If this is true, then No more Target shopping for me! I've already distanced myself from Target when they quit allowing the Salvation Army to ring their bell! Sad!! This is my personal opinion so there is no need for a debate on my page, Thx!

REMOVING GENDER LABELS: Target stores will no longer have 'boys' and 'girls' sections in most of the children's departments in their stores. The chain is removing gender labels from toys and bedding sections after customers complained about gender stereotyping.

Greta: I haven't followed the details of the story but from what I understand they are removing it from some sections so girls and boys don't get labeled at an early age. As in "girl toys"= dolls, all pink, kitchen sets, etc. and "boys toys"= building sets, tools, action figures, etc. I don't think it's a bad idea. Why should a girl have to shop in an aisle mark "boys" if they also want to buy a building set or vice versa. I remember in elementary school all girls had to take Home Ec while the boys in their class built some cool stuff. I hated that class but we were not allowed to switch. I studied computer science and women not only were a minority in College but also in the corporate world. Maybe taking away labels from toys gives girls and boys the freedom to play with what they want, not what society dictates them to play with.

Jessica: No. Anyone with eyes can see that boys and girls are different. Guilt trips don't work anymore. Everyone is sick and tired of all the propaganda and political correctness.

Greta: Jessica, no one is saying that they are not different. I didn't even view it as PC more to stop labeling kids in a young age. Back in my Kindergarten days there was a boy corner and a girl corner. I guess you can imagine the toys you found in each playgroup. Over the years they went away with it and I am glad. Why should girls be labeled as domestic and nurturing. There is a reason why you don't find many women with engineering/technology degrees. It's not that they are not interested in it, it's because they are told from a very young age to stay away from it. But that's just my 2 cents.

Jessica: Boys LIKE to play with trucks. Girls LIKE to play with dolls. Everyone knows this. Science has tested this, irrefutably. To say otherwise is politically correct propaganda. Target is unnecessarily antagonizing their customers, and their bottom line will suffer accordingly in the future.

Amanda: I wasnt going to join the debate on the but my daughters like to play with dolls. AND trucks and legos and building blocks. My son plays with trucks. AND his sisters barbies and my little ponies. I am not opposed to doing away with labeling the grid walls pink and blue and having it say boys items and girls. I feel like things geared toward girls that are sicence minded are dumbed down and have way less to do with the actual sicence than the like items that are geared tward the male counterparts. I compleely am with Greta, kids are kids and can figure out what they like on their own

Greta: I never played with dolls. Maybe I am gender confused and never even knew it LOL. Let's just agree to disagree smile emoticon

Maria: I hated dolls and I hated to be forced to play with them just because of my gender. I would rip the heads off and throw them in the trash hahaha. I hated that boys got to take their shirt off and girls couldn't. I practically hated any answer that stated "because you are a girl.... That's why!" Lol now my daughter, on the other hand, loves dolls and everything "girly" but if she didn't, I would def understand:) I get labels from a convenience stance but I'll take my kids down any aisle they want.



Anonymous Bird on a Wing November 18, 2015 10:21 PM  

Continued from @101

Jessica: Ask anyone in any language group in any part of the world "what do little girls like to play with?" the answer will be -- dolls. The only people who say otherwise are the politically correct who are selling the bizarre propaganda that little girls don't like to play with dolls. Normal people find this very strange, and yet very amusing.

Greta: Jessica, why are you so condescending? There are girls that don't like dolls. I was one of them and I don't remember my sisters playing with dolls either. It's not a big deal and we all turned out perfectly "normal". Despite people like you finding it strange and amusing! And maybe it's people like you who label kids at a very young age that contribute to the problem that there are not many women in the science/engineering world.

Jessica: Personal attacks are completely unnecessary. Politically correct people are trying to make normal girl playtime into something deviant. Don't be surprised to see pushback. The truth is not mean or deviant. It is the truth.

Greta: I didn't attack you, that's not my style. You were being condescending and I just pointed out a problem in this society which we obviously don't agree on.

Jessica: It is remarkable to find disagreement with such a commonplace statement as -- little girls like to play with dolls. And yes, political correctness is very condescending to normal people who like to tell the truth.

Blogger SciVo November 18, 2015 11:41 PM  

@ Yid Kid:

1. If the timing is wrong, then I would prefer you later than someone else now. I am a natural rhetorician but not much trained, and I find your hints intriguing.

2. Only if a later chapter is called "knife to the hilt."

3. I liked Influence by Cialdini a lot. You showed an even more direct and practical set of mental models, and a talent for expressing them concisely. I would like to know them all.

4. I already see the six degrees of separation spread the things that I say in just a few places. I bet I can make that even more effective with your help.

5. Nothing, I just got Photoshop Elements reinstalled and hope to show him up.

Blogger SciVo November 19, 2015 12:00 AM  

@ Bird on a Wing: It is good to see such aggression in favor of simple normalcy.

Blogger haus frau November 19, 2015 12:08 AM  

@68 " I'm beginning to understand why God once said to "kill them all."

I have thought the exact same thing. I used to feel a bit iffy about killing the women and children in the OT wars. Now I feel zero iffiness"

This is a bit off topic but can someone recommend a Biblically sound author to put the old testament wars and laws into context? Also things like slavery in the New testament. I'm looking for apologetics on things that tend to come up in conversations with non-Christians, like sperg atheists, who think the Old and New Testament are barbaric, the works of a vengeful evil God, etc.

Blogger haus frau November 19, 2015 12:12 AM  

@70 Chiva are you in the Pacific Northwest? We are looking for a Schutzhund bloodline male GSD puppy this coming summer. I bought a female GSD last spring but she has too low prey drive to be protection trained.

Blogger Chiva November 19, 2015 12:50 AM  

@ haus frau. I live south of San Jose, CA. I have bought a male from K9 Ambassador in Hollister, CA. The breeders name is Deleta Jones. I personally know Deleta and she is a very responsible breeder. She has customers from across the U.S.
I bought a male GSD from her and he has high prey drive, and an excellent bite. His tracking is average but improving (probably because I am getting better). Obedience was no problem.
Deleta has also competed at the National levels and is well known. The regionals for this area was held at her facility last September.
You should give Deleta a call. She is very helpful and forthright with her advice.

Blogger haus frau November 19, 2015 12:56 AM  

@107 Appreciate it Chiva.

Blogger Marie November 19, 2015 1:22 AM  

@99 Danby

It is a brilliant response.

My initial reaction was I could never say that. But then I realized they would use it against me in a heartbeat, if it would work.

No wonder I am losing. I am slapping wrists and they are going for the jugular.

Blogger Marie November 19, 2015 1:27 AM  

@ Bird on a Wing.

That's awesome. You did a great job of getting them to react to you rather than the other way around.

They really like to fall back on the "agree to disagree" line, don't they?

Anonymous Discard November 19, 2015 2:41 AM  

69 Marie: If your right arm is broken, will breaking your left arm make it better?
If you have cancer, will tuberculosis cure it?
If you have a flat tire, should you pound nails into the other three tires?
If your house burns down, should you burn down the local school too?

I recommend giving them three or four analogies, because they will try to argue details and special cases and ignore the overall principle.

Blogger Shimshon November 19, 2015 3:10 AM  

Yid Kid those are some insightful observations on the use of rhetoric and dialectic.

Anonymous Bird on a Wing November 19, 2015 4:50 PM  

Hi Marie, again.

I know this thread is dead, but I wanted to direct your attention to a post from Vox in September that you might not have seen. It had a few different people contributing their personal experiences with a bunch of rhetorical examples in the comment thread, including myself.

Lots of useful stuff.

http://voxday.blogspot.com/2015/09/mailvox-rhetoric-in-action.html#comment-form

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