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Wednesday, November 25, 2015

The NATO-ISIS connection

Just happens to be Turkey:
A senior Western official familiar with a large cache of intelligence obtained this summer from a major raid on an ISIS safehouse told the Guardian that “direct dealings between Turkish officials and ranking ISIS members was now ‘undeniable.’”

The same official confirmed that Turkey, a longstanding member of NATO, is not just supporting ISIS, but also other jihadist groups, including Ahrar al-Sham and Jabhat al-Nusra, al-Qaeda’s affiliate in Syria. “The distinctions they draw [with other opposition groups] are thin indeed,” said the official. “There is no doubt at all that they militarily cooperate with both.”

In a rare insight into this brazen state-sponsorship of ISIS, a year ago Newsweek reported the testimony of a former ISIS communications technician, who had travelled to Syria to fight the regime of Bashir al-Assad.

The former ISIS fighter told Newsweek that Turkey was allowing ISIS trucks from Raqqa to cross the “border, through Turkey and then back across the border to attack Syrian Kurds in the city of Serekaniye in northern Syria in February.” ISIS militants would freely travel “through Turkey in a convoy of trucks,” and stop “at safehouses along the way.”

The former ISIS communication technician also admitted that he would routinely “connect ISIS field captains and commanders from Syria with people in Turkey on innumerable occasions,” adding that “the people they talked to were Turkish officials… ISIS commanders told us to fear nothing at all because there was full cooperation with the Turks.”

In January, authenticated official documents of the Turkish military were leaked online, showing that Turkey’s intelligence services had been caught in Adana by military officers transporting missiles, mortars and anti-aircraft ammunition via truck “to the al-Qaeda terror organisation” in Syria.

According to other ISIS suspects facing trial in Turkey, the Turkish national military intelligence organization (MIT) had begun smuggling arms, including NATO weapons to jihadist groups in Syria as early as 2011.

The allegations have been corroborated by a prosecutor and court testimony of Turkish military police officers, who confirmed that Turkish intelligence was delivering arms to Syrian jihadists from 2013 to 2014.

Documents leaked in September 2014 showed that Saudi Prince Bandar bin Sultan had financed weapons shipments to ISIS through Turkey. A clandestine plane from Germany delivered arms in the Etimesgut airport in Turkey and split into three containers, two of which were dispatched to ISIS.

A report by the Turkish Statistics Institute confirmed that the government had provided at least $1 million in arms to Syrian rebels within that period, contradicting official denials. Weapons included grenades, heavy artillery, anti-aircraft guns, firearms, ammunition, hunting rifles and other weapons?—?but the Institute declined to identify the specific groups receiving the shipments.

Information of that nature emerged separately. Just two months ago, Turkish police raided a news outlet that published revelations on how the local customs director had approved weapons shipments from Turkey to ISIS.

Turkey has also played a key role in facilitating the life-blood of ISIS’ expansion: black market oil sales. Senior political and intelligence sources in Turkey and Iraq confirm that Turkish authorities have actively facilitated ISIS oil sales through the country.

Last summer, Mehmet Ali Ediboglu, an MP from the main opposition, the Republican People’s Party, estimated the quantity of ISIS oil sales in Turkey at about $800 million?—?that was over a year ago.

By now, this implies that Turkey has facilitated over $1 billion worth of black market ISIS oil sales to date.
Both NATO and the EU should probably rethink their strategy of building closer relationships with the Turk. No doubt the neocons are slavering at the thought of using Turkey as a means of furthering their desired conflict with Russia, but considering how far agley their plans tend to go, that will probably end with Russia in possession of the warm water seaport it has always wanted.

It shouldn't surprise anyone that Turkey is taking the side of ISIS. In the end, it is always the Dar al-Islam against the Dar al-Harb.

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88 Comments:

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 November 25, 2015 6:02 AM  

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't Islamists hate Turkey? I mean, really really hate Turkey? I was under the impression that they would never forgive Turkey for Attaturk ending the last caliphate.

Blogger VD November 25, 2015 6:11 AM  

don't Islamists hate Turkey?

Hate Turkey? They rule it. Erdogan is even described as "originating from an Islamist political background" on Wikipedia.

Blogger Gapeseed November 25, 2015 6:24 AM  

Does anyone have any opinion on travel to Istanbul? I have a long-scheduled vacation segment coming up there in a week or so, and I wonder whether I should just eat it and cut that Turkey leg short.

Blogger VD November 25, 2015 6:33 AM  

Considering that you already thought that travel to a Muslim nation would be a good vacation, I see no reason to alter your travel arrangements due to current events.

Blogger Glen November 25, 2015 6:40 AM  

The Ergenekon trials were aided and encouraged by then new Obama administration. It was a direct assault on the secular traditions of Kemal. The unfortunate result of the Military=Bad attitude of the US foreign policy team of that time.

Blogger Phillip George November 25, 2015 6:40 AM  

Wait a year and go to Constantinople instead.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan November 25, 2015 6:47 AM  

Can it be assumed then ISIS has support of at least a few NATO countries, maybe even France, certainly Obamastan.

Blogger vashine November 25, 2015 6:51 AM  

Turks celebrate, every year, the Fall of Constantinople. They have been celebrating it, every year, since 1453. The 'secular' young Turks, who smoke and drink and fornicate, celebrate it too. It's a holiday, another night for partying.

They don't care that thousands and thousands of Christians were raped, slaughtered, and enslaved that day. That the streets quite literally were running with blood, rivulets of blood streaming down into the Bosphorus from the Golden Horn and Sultanhamet. From the Hagia Sophia, which the Turks stormed into, interrupting the Divine Liturgy going on, and started raping and murdering right there in the church. On the altar. Profaning the holy sacrament.

This is par for the course for the Turk or the Muslim of any race.

They thirst for glory. They harbor bitterness at becoming Europe's and the US's bitch-boy post WWI. To them, and to the Muslim mind, this is a grave, grave injustice. An offense to what 'should be.' An offense to Allah himself. Even those supposed Turkish secularists easily get caught up in the 'us versus them' of history... and 90% of those secularists, when push comes to shove, when they awake to have little choice but to choose immediate death or military service to the new Caliphate in Ankara or Istanbul, will suddenly find their Ottoman pride, will suddenly 're-discover' their Muslim Ottoman roots, their Muslim warrior ancestors, and storm off for the Turk glory they have been unjustly denied. Glory over the infidel and the white European. Over the Greek and the Armenian and the Jews. Glory over the golden-haired beauties, White Woman, that have been the pinnacle of Beauty in the world for centuries. Prized in harems for more than 1400 years. They will start the white slave trade again. They already have. Read "White Gold".

We must realize that this is what they dream of, even those supposed 'secular' ones. They hate the US, the West. They are desperate to be considered 'European', and are willing to conquer and kill Europe to prove it. And more than willing to rape and conquer its fair-haired, fair-eyed, fair-skinned women.

Wake up, this is evil and Turkmen and Turkey are at the very center of it, with ALL the rest of the Muslims in the world. They radiate and carry evil, they worship the devil. Muhammad himself admitted he could not distinguish between the devil's voice and God's or Gabriel's voice. Yet they still follow him, worship him.

Turkey is the anti-Christ. Russia, with the help of true, orthodox Christians around the world, with the help of other Orthodox and Catholic nations, will crush the new Ottoman Empire. But not without much blood spilled. And with many souls going to hell. And with many Christians warriors and crusaders finding themselves at the Feast of the Martyrs.

http://shoebat.com/?s=ottoman+revival&submit=

Blogger Rek. November 25, 2015 6:53 AM  

Like we didn't already suspect this. Kill them all!

Blogger vashine November 25, 2015 6:54 AM  

Don't go to Istanbul. Better to stick it to the Turk, however slightly, by not giving them a dime of your money.

Also, have you seen the reports of anti-white terrorists attacks all over North Africa the past few years? Not worth it. Give your money to non-Muslims who won't murder you in the name of Allah.

Blogger Mint November 25, 2015 6:54 AM  

There is only one reason to visit Istanbul; Hagia Sophia.

That's it, churches are almost gone. Christians evaporated from 20% 100 years ago, and now at 0.2% of population. I still remember the martyrs in 2007.

Blogger Gapeseed November 25, 2015 7:11 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Gapeseed November 25, 2015 7:11 AM  

I used Kayak to book a trip to Asia, and Turkish Air was the cheapest option, with Istanbul the hub. Before I knew it, I had an unanticipated leg in Istanbul mapped out. The Hagia Sophia was to be the highlight; now, I'm leaning towards staying in the airport and flying back to the States earlier than I had hoped.

Blogger Unknown November 25, 2015 7:14 AM  

What you people do not realise is that Turkey as pretty much secular and west oriented until your glorious CIA and Pentagram decided to form the "green belt" against the Soviet menace.

Turks actually bled in Korea in 52' to be a part of NATO. ( Unlike the heroic Greeks who were there as Nurses ). You can google Kunuri if you wih to learn. We still have stories from the veterans who tell us how the G.I's they fought with just packed up and left, leaving them to face the chinese hoards alone.

Billions of USD were flooded into the Islamists in Turkey; they created the Erdogan and Fethullah G. movements. After Fethullah and Erdogan had a fight over the huge resource grabbing match, Fethullah lost and escaped to Pennslayvania; still protected by C.I.A. ( Check which C.I.A station chief approves his VISA even though FBI wants him out ).

Erdogan himself identifies himself as a "Georgian" and his wife as "an Arab" He feels no sympathy for the Turks and welcomes the Kurdish terrorists. ( He has been meeting with them in secret for years and has promised them god knows what ).

You people only have half truths, sorry to say.

Blogger Tom K. November 25, 2015 7:16 AM  

Look at this picture. Obama looks more submissive than he did when he bowed to the Saudi king. Who lets another man stroke their face except maybe his father?

http://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/intelligencer/2015/11/16/16-g20-obama-erdogan.w750.h560.2x.jpg

Blogger rumpole5 November 25, 2015 7:18 AM  

If God spares my life I look forward to reading about or even seeing the resumption of Christian services in Hagia Sophia within years. Go Ruskies!

Blogger Mr.MantraMan November 25, 2015 7:19 AM  

Its a legitimacy issue per 4GW theory, if you notice the propaganda called news it is basically back to refugees = good not ISIS = bad. I would say Putin and his gang know this and will exploit this as Sultan Obama wars against his enemies, whites.

Blogger Erdem Celikbilek November 25, 2015 7:21 AM  

Before you come to Hagia Sophia take into account the traffic! Better bring your Main Battle Tanks after 2.a.m, otherwise they will be stuck in traffic for hours :)

Blogger Steve, the Dark Ninja of Mockery November 25, 2015 7:33 AM  

What you people do not realise is that Turkey as pretty much secular and west oriented until your glorious CIA and Pentagram decided to form the "green belt" against the Soviet menace.

Eh, sort of.

Urban hipsters and academic types in Ankara are no different from Europeans. Some of their army men (used to be?) pretty solid.

But most of the rural Turkish population is comprised of toothless twentysomething crones dressed in black headscarves, shit-stached goat-botherers, small boys, greasy gigolos hoping to trick desperate middle-aged European women into marriage, shifty-looking accordion-players in dirty fezes, beggars, smoking monkeys, and genies.

Blogger Erdem Celikbilek November 25, 2015 7:36 AM  

Can't argue there....the long march towards turning Turks into Arabs seems to have become successful.

Turkey is basically in 3 pieces now; the Ethnically Turkish but mentally Arab majority, the ethnically and mentally Turkish "western" minority and the ultra racist Kurdish minority "soon to be majority".

Blogger Gaiseric November 25, 2015 7:36 AM  

Whatever happened to Tommy Hass, anyway?

Blogger vashine November 25, 2015 7:36 AM  

A quick jaunt into town to see the Hagia Sophia is fine. It is stunning. It exudes the power of God and Christ. The Blue Mosque doesn't come close to the Hagia Sophia's majesty, even after 600 years of attacks and poor maintenance.

Go, just for that, then leave. You can eat kebabs and kofte somewhere else.

Right, right, Uknown, the CIA and Pentagon created Islam too, right? Created Jihad too, right? And Muslims attacked 7th Century Spain and the newly born nation of America (Barbary Wars) all because of Israel, right?

The sad part is that many moozies are so poorly educated and so dumb that they actually believe it. They would actually believe the modern state of Israel, created in 1948, is to blame and justification for 7th century Jihadi atrocities. They are THAT stupid. And they will argue it, and shitlibs will shriek in horror and bow down to them, having been bested at their own game of victim posturing.

Blogger vashine November 25, 2015 7:40 AM  

"But most of the rural Turkish population is comprised of toothless twentysomething crones dressed in black headscarves, shit-stached goat-botherers, small boys, greasy gigolos hoping to trick desperate middle-aged European women into marriage, shifty-looking accordion-players in dirty fezes, beggars, smoking monkeys, and genies."

Thread winner.

The Economist couldn't paint a more accurate picture of the real Turkey outside of Ankara and Istanbul.

Anonymous J. J. November 25, 2015 7:44 AM  

"cut that Turkey leg short"

No! Not at Thanksgiving!

Blogger Erdem Celikbilek November 25, 2015 7:47 AM  

Don't worry though...soon you will have your "super duper aryan" Kurdish brothers as a majority in Turkey, say in 40 years.

I'm sure they will be happy to uplift the European Civilization.

And the Conquest of Istanbul is celebrated yes....we had been taught the Conqueror actually stopped the looting and assured the Christians they will not be harmed in any way. We were not taught hatred.

And no the west did not create Islam....but by the end of W.W.1 Turkey was on the right path. I don't care about the rest of the Islamic world.

It's true that the West with its myopic worldview aided in the destruction of any and all secular governments in the middle east. You wanted us to self destroy too - just like yourselves.

And you succeeded! Congrats!

The modern Turkish minority in Turkey are as guilt ridden as their western counterparts.

Blogger Erdem Celikbilek November 25, 2015 7:49 AM  

Hagia Sophia had been turned into a Mosque during Ottoman times. In the Turkish Republic it became a museum out of respect.

There are those who wish to turn it into a mosque again.

And we have been told for decades that we, secular Turks are nothing but racists who don't care about the religioius sensitivities of musims in our country.

Guess by who?

Anonymous kfg November 25, 2015 7:51 AM  

"The NATO-ISIS connection Just happens to be Turkey:"

Who woulda thunk it?

Blogger Phillip George November 25, 2015 7:54 AM  

@14 Unknown, I'm aware of a lot of things I'm unaware of. Yet watching people on the ground shout allah hu akbar as they shoot at a pilot still in his parachute descending paints a substantial image of things I can know. Watching a Turkish football stadium erupt into allah hu akbar during a minutes silence for a hundred people gunned down at a concert paints a picture of what is knowable. Whether the Arab spring is CIA or Riyadh does it matter? At the end of the day if a proud muslim is provided with an AK47 from Mossad, the CIA or Saudia does it matter? The muslim who is prepared to empty the clip into a disco for the chance at paradise tells me enough to make some semi informed decisions. Who paid for the bullets is one stage removed doesn't detract from appreciating what animates some minds at the operational level.
Russia is responding to Chechnya and Afghanistan. It's a multinational transnational movement. Who funds it doesn't change much about who and what it is. allah hu akbar has a 1000 years of this.

Blogger Erdem Celikbilek November 25, 2015 8:00 AM  

That's exactly what I'm saying.

Chanting stuff during moments of silence is a ne phenomenon in Turkey. I remember no such thing in my childhood. But all my life I had to listen to westerners tell us how the Islamists were just like us and that we had to give them what they wanted and we would all live in peace.

This is the bloody result!

Right after the U.S backed coup in 1980, record number of religiou schools opened up. Directly ordered by the Pentagram and our "so called" secular Army obeyed them because they were creating an Islamic Youth against the godless Soviets.

I wish we had never joined NATO. We would have faced the Soviets any way we could and at least died with honour.

Not pushed around by the west to be turned into Arabs.

Blogger ncartist November 25, 2015 8:06 AM  

...will probably end with Russia in possession of the warm water seaport it has always wanted.

Was it here that someone linked to Greek Orthodox prophecy that Russia will fight with Turkey and destroy it; then having taken Istanbul, will restore it to the Greeks. The prophet, a recently deceased elderly monk, declared that the process had already begun.

Blogger ncartist November 25, 2015 8:08 AM  

@ 3. Gapeseed

What VD said and don't forget to take the train.

Blogger Erdem Celikbilek November 25, 2015 8:12 AM  

The problem with you westerners is you think in 1's and 0's. Good and bad. You are looking for the good guy and the bad guy in every conflict.

That does not work in the middle east.

You can't simply say A is good and B is bad.

Ottoman Empire was established by Turkish tribes from central asia. But it fought wars with other Turkish mini states and allied with the Sunni Kurds any times to massacre rival Turks.

The Turkish tribes that served the Ottomans became problematic because they did nt want to live the Ottoman way. Their Islamic belief came from Khorasan not from Arabia and included Shamanic rituals. They were massacred by the Ottomans many times. Some of them were settled in Southeast parts and actually lost their identities becoming Kurdish.

It's bloody complicated. Don't think you can understand all this and determine a good guy and a bad guy out of this.



Blogger Shimshon November 25, 2015 8:15 AM  

I spent two weeks in Turkey in 1991 several months after the Gulf War. It was fantastic. The country is beautiful, the people were friendly, and Turks appeared to me more physically attractive than the Arabs I see in Israel. Jews living there were circumspect (thanks largely to the 1986 synagogue bombing), but most Turks didn't seem to have an opinion on them one way or the other.

I would not make such a trip today.

The idea that Turkey in 1952 should be our guide for Turkey in 2015 (as @14 Unknown says) is idiotic. Erdogan, even if not Turkish, is an unreconstructed Islamist.

Anonymous kfg November 25, 2015 8:16 AM  

@14 Unknown:

How does it follow that because we are aware of the way things are now that we aren't aware of how things were then?

Anonymous smedley butler November 25, 2015 8:23 AM  

Ratzinger was right, Turkey should not be integrated into the EU as it is not European. The same goes for NATO.

Blogger Cail Corishev November 25, 2015 8:24 AM  

Whatever happened to Tommy Hass, anyway?

I was hoping his absence meant he was on the road, headed back to his homeland. I think of Tommy as "the good Muslims," so I'd hate to see him caught in the crossfire when the Europeans get serious. Of course, now his homeland may not be such a safe place either.

Blogger clk November 25, 2015 8:33 AM  

The story was written by Tyler Durden ?? Isn't that the anarchist character from Fight Club ? Is this a believable source ? Was there any collaboration of this story on ONN or RT ?

Blogger VD November 25, 2015 8:35 AM  

But all my life I had to listen to westerners tell us how the Islamists were just like us and that we had to give them what they wanted and we would all live in peace.

And here you are confusing Westerners with our traitorous governements and media. We Westerners didn't tell you a damn thing. We didn't think about you for a fraction of a nanosecond.

Blogger VD November 25, 2015 8:37 AM  

You can't simply say A is good and B is bad.

Agreed. But you know, and I know, that adding Turkey to the EU is not going to help anything, and would make things a damn sight worse for everybody.

It's pretty simple. Turkey for the Turks. No more globalism. No more multiculturalism.

Blogger clk November 25, 2015 8:47 AM  

@32 "The problem with you westerners is you think in 1's and 0's. Good and bad. You are looking for the good guy and the bad guy in every conflict."

I would say the real problem with us westerners is that we think of ourselves as the good guys.. there is a long and clear history of how we, thru our own actions, got to where we are in the middle east (and the rest of the world for that matter) -- Its the refusal to understand and own this that dooms us to failure because you cant fix a problem that you refuse to understand...

Anonymous kfg November 25, 2015 8:49 AM  

"Don't think you can understand all this and determine a good guy and a bad guy out of this."

I am less concerned about the philosophical ethics of the situation than I am about who is shooting at me.

Blogger Harsh November 25, 2015 8:56 AM  

What you people do not realise is that Turkey as pretty much secular and west oriented until your glorious CIA and Pentagram decided to form the "green belt" against the Soviet menace.

The classic short-bus argument of the Left. Whether or not we created the problem (which is highly debatable), it is a problem that needs to be dealt with. You don't just sit around wringing your hands and doing nothing because you "caused the problem".

Blogger mobius wolf November 25, 2015 9:02 AM  

"wringing your hands and doing nothing because you "caused the problem"

Amen! Own it, end it.

Blogger Remo - Vile Faceless Minion #99 November 25, 2015 9:07 AM  

If Russia were to go to war with Turkey I've no doubt they (Russia) would win what I do tend to doubt is if Russia is willing to do what it would need to fully crush them and secure a true defeat. You can only do that be literally eliminating the population and moving your own people in. If Russia merely demolishes the Turk military and tries to play touchy feely they'll just create another Afghanistan.

Blogger Skylark Thibedeau November 25, 2015 9:07 AM  

Turkey for the Turks. Byzantium for the Byzantines.

Blogger Skylark Thibedeau November 25, 2015 9:13 AM  

Russia is only interested in occupying the Dardanelles. They can easily follow their old habit of relocating troublesome populations to Siberia or Anatolia. They would probably get help from the Greeks, Bulgars, Romanians, and Serbs who are living in Islamist 'Occupied Territories' just like 'Palestine'.

Blogger Nate November 25, 2015 9:13 AM  

Turkey wants the pipeline too. Sure... it helps that they get to take the side of the their fellow goat humping rag heads... but in the end it is the pipeline that is driving all this.

Anonymous kfg November 25, 2015 9:24 AM  

"Turkey for the Turks. Byzantium for the Byzantines."

Next year in Constantinople.

Blogger Nate November 25, 2015 9:35 AM  

"Russia is only interested in occupying the Dardanelles"

No.

Russia is interested in preventing Qatar from building a natural gas pipeline from the gulf to europe.

Russia wants to keep its monopoly.

Anonymous JC NRA November 25, 2015 9:37 AM  

"Who lets another man stroke their face except maybe his father?"

That would be foreplay.

Blogger Skylark Thibedeau November 25, 2015 9:48 AM  

The number one goal of Russia From Czar Peter the Great to Czar Putin is a warm water port in the Dardanelles. England in her balance of power diplomacy and the Great Game kept Russia from achieving it even fighting the Crimean War to stop them. US diplomacy took over from Britain and is basically following the same English Doctrine of the 19th and early 20th centuries.

Blogger Were-Puppy November 25, 2015 9:49 AM  

@14 Unknown
You people only have half truths, sorry to say.
---

I love it when everything is the US fault. Where was the US when Constantinople fell? Where was the US when muslims conquered Lebanon, Egypt, etc?

Blogger Were-Puppy November 25, 2015 9:51 AM  

@15 Tom K.
Look at this picture. Obama looks more submissive than he did when he bowed to the Saudi king. Who lets another man stroke their face except maybe his father?

http://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/intelligencer/2015/11/16/16-g20-obama-erdogan.w750.h560.2x.jpg
---

Is that the treacherous Merkel behind them?

Blogger Harsh November 25, 2015 9:53 AM  

I love it when everything is the US fault. Where was the US when Constantinople fell? Where was the US when muslims conquered Lebanon, Egypt, etc?

I have it on good authority the US is responsible for Caesar's assassination. Shh, don't tell.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan November 25, 2015 9:56 AM  

My WAG is Saudi Arabia is the strategic linchpin, destabilize it and all the efforts of our traitorous elite would be for naught

Blogger Were-Puppy November 25, 2015 9:56 AM  

@16 rumpole5
If God spares my life I look forward to reading about or even seeing the resumption of Christian services in Hagia Sophia within years. Go Ruskies!
---

With the ISIS, AQ, and Taliban track record of destroying places it can't happen soon enough.

Anonymous kfg November 25, 2015 9:57 AM  

"Look at this picture."

Whooooo's a good boy? Maybe you can have a Milkbone later.

Blogger Erdem Celikbilek November 25, 2015 9:58 AM  

US is not responsible for everything.

But this time in history we have the "Pax Ameriacana"; meaning yes you are responsible for many things. If you have almost 200 military bases all over the world............yeah, you are responsible for a lot.


Anonymous kfg November 25, 2015 9:59 AM  

"If you have almost 200 military bases all over the world............yeah, you are responsible for a lot."

And?

Blogger Were-Puppy November 25, 2015 9:59 AM  

@17 Mr.MantraMan
Its a legitimacy issue per 4GW theory, if you notice the propaganda called news it is basically back to refugees = good not ISIS = bad. I would say Putin and his gang know this and will exploit this as Sultan Obama wars against his enemies, whites.
---

I'm still a noob with 4GW. I was thinking about the situation yesterday with Turkey shooting down the Russian plane, and then their rescue getting shot down as well.

The way I understand it, this case Turkey and the rebels got a victory over Russia, but Russia won the moral part.

If that is so, then the moral part means those small victories are actually losses in the grand scheme of things?

Blogger Were-Puppy November 25, 2015 10:06 AM  

19. Steve, the Dark Ninja of Mockery

But most of the rural Turkish population is comprised of toothless twentysomething crones dressed in black headscarves, shit-stached goat-botherers, small boys, greasy gigolos hoping to trick desperate middle-aged European women into marriage, shifty-looking accordion-players in dirty fezes, beggars, smoking monkeys, and genies.
---

You really need to make a travel guide and have VD publish it!

"shit-stached goat-botherers" this reminds me of the old Cheech and Chong joke, Why does a Cowboy got shit in his mustache?

Blogger ZhukovG November 25, 2015 10:08 AM  

@51. Skylark Thibedeau

The world has changed since Peter the Great. Nate is right on this one.

Blogger Harsh November 25, 2015 10:11 AM  

If you have almost 200 military bases all over the world............yeah, you are responsible for a lot.

We're also responsible for a lot of good and somehow we never get thanked for that.

Blogger Were-Puppy November 25, 2015 10:12 AM  

@29 Erdem Celikbilek
But all my life I had to listen to westerners tell us how the Islamists were just like us and that we had to give them what they wanted and we would all live in peace.
---

That's really sad. Those same clowns have been undermining every western nation in the same way for a very long time. There must be a international society of Wormwoods.

Blogger Were-Puppy November 25, 2015 10:22 AM  

@58 Erdem Celikbilek
US is not responsible for everything.

But this time in history we have the "Pax Ameriacana"; meaning yes you are responsible for many things. If you have almost 200 military bases all over the world............yeah, you are responsible for a lot.
---

It's all Japans fault for dragging the US into WWII.

Anonymous Geoff November 25, 2015 10:29 AM  

@Cernovich conducted a Twitter poll asking who would be a better ally, Turkey or Russia? Sorry, I can't find the link anymore but when I last checked, it was running around 80% in favor of Russia.

Anonymous BigGaySteve November 25, 2015 10:35 AM  

Is Merkel still spreading her legs for a deal to get more Turks into Germany.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't Islamists hate Turkey? I mean, really really hate Turkey? I think you mean pork.

Does anyone have any opinion on travel to Istanbul?

Don't expect the bathhouses to be like the US. Unless you are taking the Orient Express plan on being a dimmni. Don't ask about the Armenians if you go there. Kuwait arrested a forigen male nurse for drinking a bottle of water during the day in 100+ deg temps during Ram mad on.

( Unlike the heroic Greeks who were there as Nurses ).

Would you rather have moslem nurses, they fought for the right to not wash their hands in the UK.
http://www.eutimes.net/2010/04/uk-allows-muslim-nurses-to-not-wash-to-protect-their-modesty/

Yet watching people on the ground shout allah hu akbar as they shoot at a pilot still in his parachute descending paints a substantial image of things I can know.

I watched lamestream news to see how it was covered and they forgot to edit that part out.

29 Erdem Celikbilek But all my life I had to listen to westerners tell us how the Islamists were just like us

Trust me those were just the faggots and Soros cheerleaders.

Blogger vashine November 25, 2015 10:42 AM  

Kemalism was a flash in the pan, and could only "succeed" if it enventually pushed Islam out of Turkish culture and life altogether. It was never, ever going to succeed at that withouth banning Islam outright, and we know Ataturk couldn't do that.

So he did his best, which was to control it as much as possible.

But Islam wages a war of attrition on its own and its enemies... be it 50, 100, 2000 years, if you allow the Muslim to exist in your community, Sharia Law ends up creeping in and you get just another Muslims shithole. Fact of history. Fact of human nature combined with a false religion such as Islam.

Error leads and sin lead to tyranny and oppression. Turkey has gone back to Islam because it was always going to go back to Islam, it never really left. Some sanity and modernism, some European-ness, was forced upon it by one of its own, with brute force at that.

Cut the BS about the West somehow being to blame for what Turkey has turned into. Islam needs no outside influences to turn nations in hellholes. Turkey is just another proof of that. Quit yer bitchin', man up and face the facts: Islam is evil and destroys nations. Period. Ban it or suffer the consequences.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan November 25, 2015 10:45 AM  

I just read somewhere that the Israeli air force just conducted a bombing raid on the Syria Lebanon border, so add more spoons to the pot

Blogger Skylark Thibedeau November 25, 2015 11:09 AM  

Just look at Cyprus. The Greek side is European. The Turkish side is Third World. The Mediterannean resorts on that side in Varosha were all abandoned at partition and never reopened.

Blogger kurt9 November 25, 2015 11:13 AM  

There is no secret here. The Turkish defense minister said yesterday that the world has to accept the presence of Daesh and that the Russians are wrong to fight against it and the other Sunni Islamic groups in Syria and Iraq.

Rubio also said yesterday that it was the responsibility of the West and NATO to support Turkey. Has this guy lost his mind?

The Western political elite (E.U. mandarins and Washington D.C. politicos) are blundering idiots.

Anonymous Cyclone Bob November 25, 2015 11:16 AM  

Erdem: "The problem with you westerners is you think in 1's and 0's. Good and bad. You are looking for the good guy and the bad guy in every conflict.That does not work in the middle east. You can't simply say A is good and B is bad."

Wrt the M.E. we should be thinking in 0's -- A is bad and B is bad.

OpenID Jack Amok November 25, 2015 11:39 AM  

The problem with you westerners is you think in 1's and 0's. Good and bad. You are looking for the good guy and the bad guy in every conflict

Close, but not quite. Our real problem is we think everyone can be good guys, if we just treat them nice and give them stuff. The world would be a better place if we stopped trying to civilize unrepentant barbarians.

OpenID denektenorsk November 25, 2015 11:40 AM  

@Erdem Celikbilek

Thank you for the insights into the citizens attitude on the ground (no sarcasm intended). Just as you have zero personal control (and therefore zero responsibility for the actions of the Turkish government), the same applies to western citizens WRT their governments and "leaders". The majority of them tune out the news completely, and then others are wrought with self inflicted guilt over what may or may not have happened hundreds of years ago. They don't even think about the problem let alone think in terms of good/bad guys.

Massive entertainment and the farce of democracy keeps most of them thoroughly uninterested in current events (either domestic or abroad).

That being said - ISIS have demonstrated pretty unequivocally they are the bad guys - despite the attempts of guilt ridden left leaning people to deflect the blame onto their own societies. There is a case to be made for bombing ISIS into dust without destabalizing any governments. Sure Assad is no friend of the west, but we can wring our collective hands over what to do about him for years to come (without ISIS chewing into him).

Instead, the Obama Administration are quite content to NOT do anything about ISIS as it allows them to further their agenda on other points. First it destablizes Syria and therefore Assad. Quite the humanitarian, President Obama is. Secondly they are trying to deflect the "true cause" of the conflict to be climate change, which is quickly becoming another religion in western nations (ranking right up there with adherence to the feminist religion).

On a note more related to the post - does anyone think Turkey was crazy enough to try to provoke Russia without the tacit support of NATO (i.e. the US)?

OpenID Jack Amok November 25, 2015 11:41 AM  

As to Turkey's place in NATO, I think Turkey's behavior in Gulf War II gives us more than enough justification to cut them loose. Sure, sure, the war itself might not have been a good idea, but either you're an ally or you're not an ally.

Blogger Curtis November 25, 2015 12:36 PM  

We're also responsible for a lot of good and somehow we never get thanked for that.

That is funny. And whatever goodness that is, ALWAYS comes with evil strings attached. Like giving a shy puppy a bone just so you can kick it. What planet do some of you live on?

Spend some time on Twitter with the various flavors of the USgov and read the nonsense. Seriously, some of you people do live in the LSM... and just come to Vox to get your tippy-toes back down to earth.

Blogger IM2L844 November 25, 2015 12:56 PM  

Has anyone here read "Catastrophic Failure: Blindfolding America in the Face of Jihad" by Stephen Coughlin?

Google ads thinks I need it and I'm considering adding it to the queue so a can get a better handle on the current situation. I haven't heard about it, but it looks intriguing and has good reviews.

Blogger justaguy November 25, 2015 2:13 PM  

As more details of the downed Russian jet come out, it appears that Turkey was the aggressor, shooting down the plane in Syrian airspace and not following any customary or international law for what is reported as a 17 second foray into Turkish airspace. Perhaps enough space to deny any article 5 NATO appeals.

Blogger Kirk Parker November 25, 2015 5:17 PM  

Erdem @ 29,

All your life? What are you, 12 years old? Because where I come from in the USA there is huge respect for (though not always understanding of the inner workings) of the Turkish Secular Project.

Kurt @ 71,

"Has [Rubio] lost his mind?"

Evidence that he ever had it, please....

Blogger Harsh November 25, 2015 6:54 PM  

That is funny. And whatever goodness that is, ALWAYS comes with evil strings attached. Like giving a shy puppy a bone just so you can kick it. What planet do some of you live on?

Spend some time on Twitter with the various flavors of the USgov and read the nonsense. Seriously, some of you people do live in the LSM... and just come to Vox to get your tippy-toes back down to earth.


Sperg on!

Blogger Subversive Saint #249 November 25, 2015 9:03 PM  

Turkey leg short. That's funny

Blogger Tommy Hass November 26, 2015 2:21 AM  

"Whatever happened to Tommy Hass, anyway?"

I was too busy studying for an exam and this place is a fucking time sink.

To the guy talking about Northern Cyprus being a hellhole: that's because every other nation not named Turkey doesn't recognize it, idiot.

I also am really amused by the idea that you guys honestly think you're going to get Istanbul back. I would rather personally skin all of your children and grandchildren than letting you step foot into that place without asking for my/our permission.

And it also seems that Vox is getting retarded. MUH MUH MUH DAR AL ISLAM. YOU ATION IN A MUSLIM NATION IS A GOOD IDEA, WHAT A RETARD.

I'm going to be frank: despite your considerable intelligence, you are losing your sanity. You seem to have come to the conclusion that since being radical and outrageous has helped you in the past, this should help you in any life situation. Not so.

That being said, since when is Russia capable of winning a war against Turkey without going for the nuclear option? Kratman told me that conventionally speaking Russia's military kind of stinks and that we are studs.

Oh and vashine, I generally believe in freedom of speech, but having you whipped in public for your excretions would be just even in a "free" nation.

Blogger Tommy Hass November 26, 2015 2:25 AM  

" YOU ATION IN A MUSLIM NATION IS A GOOD IDEA, WHAT A RETARD."

Shit, I meant to mock the idea that vacation in a "Muslim" country is a bad idea. Only if you are a 2edgy4me teenager.

Blogger SciVo November 26, 2015 6:36 AM  

Tommy, my sister and her best friend made the mistake of taking an unsanctioned side trip to Turkey as teenagers, and by the intervention of God, narrowly avoided tragedy. While trying to evade the creepy boys following them, they literally bumped into a man that they knew from America, who spent the other half of the year back home as a rug merchant; he then took them under his wing, fed them and assigned his oldest son to show them around and protect them.

True story. Worked out great, but could easily have been the opposite.

Blogger SciVo November 26, 2015 6:38 AM  

To add, I wasn't there. They were on a group trip to Europe, or were supposed to be.

Blogger SciVo November 26, 2015 7:17 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger SciVo November 26, 2015 7:23 AM  

Shit, I meant to mock the idea that vacation in a "Muslim" country is a bad idea. Only if you are a 2edgy4me teenager.

Well, but then why did you address your comment at VD? You and I agree that it's a bad idea for rebellious teenagers, but he only said that recent events are no reason to change your travel plans. Do you suspect a thoughtcrime?

OpenID tz November 26, 2015 6:20 PM  

Where is Siebel Edmonds when you need her? Not translating for the FBI.
http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/
It is Turkey day. Ask an Armenian. Somehow Edmond and Turkish delight seem to apply.

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