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Thursday, December 17, 2015

If this still surprises you

Then you really, really, need to read Cuckservative: How "Conservatives" Betrayed America:
Conservatives give Ryan a pass on budget deal they despise

'The end product here is just cleaning the barn, it’s a disaster,' one Freedom Caucus member complains.

The House Freedom Caucus hates the massive government-funding bill: Spending levels are billions of dollars higher than what conservatives wanted, and at least two top policy priorities — language addressing Syrian refugees and so-called sanctity of life — were cut.

But unlike past fiscal battles, when lawmakers took shots at GOP leaders and tried to tank bills, this time conservatives are largely holding their fire. Even as they vow to oppose the package, many are still praising Speaker Paul Ryan’s handling of the $1.1 trillion spending bill and $680 billion in tax breaks.

“In terms of the process, I can tell you I’ve had more meaningful conversations with the speaker and leadership in the last couple of weeks than I think I have in the last couple of years,” said Rep. Mark Meadows (R-N.C.), who instigated the revolt against Speaker John Boehner that led to Boehner’s resignation this fall. “I would give it an A-plus in terms of trying to reach out to the rank and file.”
See, it may be a really dreadful bill, but the important thing is that those who oppose it had "meaningful conversations" and got "to feel included". It is because they lack any sort of coherent ideology or substantive political principles that conservatives inevitably "grow" in office.

It may not prove much comfort, but the undeniable fact of the matter is that for the vast majority of human history, governments have ruled without much interference from the governed. What we are witnessing is simply a return to historical normalcy. It's not the end of the world, it's just the end of a dream that the Founding Fathers knew very well was likely to be transient.

Are we a moral people? No, obviously not. So, it should not be surprising that we are no longer fit for the form of government they created.

Labels: ,

109 Comments:

Blogger dc.sunsets December 17, 2015 2:31 PM  

GOP, inc, in the process of handing the next election to Trump.

Blogger dc.sunsets December 17, 2015 2:33 PM  

Every time some shrieking head rails against Trump's "lack of time in government," Trump's popularity rises.

The last thing this country needs is "leadership" that came up through the corruption sewer named Washington DC.

Blogger Timmy3 December 17, 2015 2:35 PM  

They got rid of Boehner for nothing. What are they doing?

Blogger dc.sunsets December 17, 2015 2:38 PM  

Frankly, Trump is the only hope.

There are no Mr. Smith's to go to Washington. Anyone who has worked in a Executive branch agency, much less on Capitol Hill as a staffer or (worse) elected official is forever tainted by "the Way Things Have To Be Done."

Political reform is an oxymoron, but it pales as one compared to Principled Politician.

Anonymous Faceless December 17, 2015 2:38 PM  

I feel bad that President Trump is going to have a Congress from the other party no matter who wins the down-ballot propositions.

That said, I'll be voting the top line and the local issues, but I can't consent or approve the actions of the Congress any further. Nancy Pelosi would never have taken this much and put such a burden on the future.

OpenID paworldandtimes December 17, 2015 2:40 PM  

They got rid of Boehner for nothing. What are they doing?

Maybe nsa overplayed its hand with whatever they were blackmailing him with so he quit.

PA

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr December 17, 2015 2:58 PM  

I believe much of the problem stems from overexposure to Washington DC's internal politics...which are comparable to Berkeley. Take a "moderate conservative", marinate him in that environment for 5-8 years, and you get a Grade-A Cuckservative.

Blogger Melampus the Seer December 17, 2015 2:59 PM  

They will never win. Ever. Ever Ever.

To win requires an earnest desire that the other side lose. Conservatives lack foresight in the preparation, lack courage in the fight, and lack ruthlessness in the exploitation of victory.

Conservatives are the everything Machiavelli said about moderates. They are untrusted allies and unfeared enemies.

Blogger RM Chris December 17, 2015 3:00 PM  

@3
They got rid of Boehner for nothing. What are they doing?

No they didn't get rid of Bonerboy for nothing. They did it in an attempt at "Rebranding".

They figure if they change the obviously pathetic cuckservative frontman that everyone can already see through, then everyone will think an actual substantive change has occurred.

As the article indicates, plenty of people fell for it.

Blogger Daniel December 17, 2015 3:01 PM  

Ah, Congress, that reliable petri dish for failure.

John Kerry to Obama: "They have coup d'etat-proofed the Senate, m'Lord, by bending over and painting "Bayonet goes here" on their asses. Call the Franklin Credit Union! The bank is open!"

Donald Trump to Senate: "I love the Senate. Great people. Great parties. We don't really need them where we are going, though. So no one gets hurt, I'll build them a playpen. In Mexico. Mexico's amazing. Just amazing."

Anonymous Athor Pel December 17, 2015 3:04 PM  

All they needed was one more budget, one more round at the federal pig trough. For access to billions of dollars they can sacrifice one man. Not a problem.

Blogger Positive Dennis December 17, 2015 3:04 PM  

I am less and less interested in voting for which demon possessed individual will be the next fearless leader.

Blogger Sean December 17, 2015 3:04 PM  

You cannot be a conservative when there is nothing left to conserve.

Anonymous WillBest December 17, 2015 3:11 PM  

@5 Fortunately, Trump doesn't need a whole lot of help from Congress to do what he says he wants to do. The laws are written all he has to do is enforce them, and if he needs to take funding from elsewhere that falls within his domain as executive.

I think one of the more interesting parts about a Trump presidency is we will find out if Roberts just worships the executive branch or if he has gone native.

I get why the GOPe doesn't care about the whole PP thing, but the Syrian thing makes no sense. A Congress that were seen as actively doing things consistent with slowing Muslims coming into the US and increasing the screen mechanisms for legal immigration, would placate people. It defies logic to anger people on an issue who are already worked up over it. Its like they learned nothing from their European globalist allies about pushing people to hard to fast.

Blogger Dave December 17, 2015 3:11 PM  

Frankly, Trump is the only hope.

Trump might, I repeat might, be the only hope on immivasion. But we're going to hand Trump a limitless supply of blank checks and the no-limit country credit card and expect him to hold the line on spending? Puhlease.

Blogger Elocutioner December 17, 2015 3:12 PM  

If you've conserved nothing you need a reactionary to get it back. We've progressed down an increasingly dark alley.

Blogger Jourdan December 17, 2015 3:13 PM  

In my year here in Washington I can say with certainty that there is NO realization here that anything has changed, either in America or the outside world.

With the exception of one senator and seven representatives, all here stand for and believe in the same, exact things. The only argument is tactics.

This is just one more reason why the whole thing should be handed over to the Dems as soon as possible.

Blogger Cataline Sergius December 17, 2015 3:17 PM  

I was expecting an disaster when Ryan got the big gavel.

"No backbone and no bottom," in the wise words of Francis Urquhart. The original and vastly superior protagonist of the first House of Cards.

Blogger dc.sunsets December 17, 2015 3:17 PM  

@15 yeah, I may have been a little over-the-top. There are no political solutions to problems of politics.

The disease operates at a very deep level, and politics only is a symptom. If Jeb! and Bride of Frankenstein('s Monster) is all the main parties can put up, we don't need Bruce Jenner in a Dress on magazine covers to tell us our society is FUBAR.

Anonymous That Would Be Telling December 17, 2015 3:23 PM  

This bill includes a huge increase in H-2B visas, people doing "temporary nonagricultural services". While I doubt the GOPe is this clever, tarnishing the Republican brand for the very non-party base people Trump is most noticeably picking up in droves is problematical, although eventually he'll have to directly take on the GOPe if he wants to be anything other than a damp squib aside from smashing the Overton window.

Blogger Dexter December 17, 2015 3:30 PM  

the important thing is that those who oppose it had "meaningful conversations" and got "to feel included".

"At Munich, I had meaningful conversations with Hitler, and got to feel included in the dismemberment of Czechoslovakia," said Neville Chamberlain, "unlike that poor dumb bastard Benes who wasn't even invited."

Blogger Matamoros December 17, 2015 3:43 PM  

Your note reminded me of the de Tocqueville quote: "America is great because America is good. And if America ceases to be good, she will cease to be great."

Anonymous Rick Johnsmeyer December 17, 2015 3:45 PM  

I remember people responding angrily a few months ago when I pointed out that "the Tea Party" was dead and irrelevant. I think I cited, foremost, the fact that their golden boy Marco Rubio is now a fairly typical neocon cuckservative sellout. Now I can cite their utter failure (if not refusal) to stand up to Paul Ryan.

Blogger Student in Blue December 17, 2015 3:47 PM  

But we're going to hand Trump a limitless supply of blank checks and the no-limit country credit card and expect him to hold the line on spending? Puhlease.

He might, he might not. I'm tempted to believe he'll trim the fat to try and make the country "profitable", aka running it like a successful business, but whether he does or not is further out than surviving the next... fifteen years with immivasion.

Anonymous Chad December 17, 2015 3:59 PM  

Are politicians so stupid that they figure that the 'important thing' is that they all play nice and get along on the hill? The train is fine indeed.

Blogger luagha December 17, 2015 4:01 PM  

Trump's past history is to not pay creditors and file for bankruptcy to negate debts. Not quite either spending from blank checks or holding the line on spending.

Anonymous HammerSix Actual December 17, 2015 4:11 PM  

The natives grow increasingly restless .... and the elite increasingly clueless.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/12/17/pat-caddell-country-closer-to-revolution-than-ever/

Blogger Jourdan December 17, 2015 4:15 PM  

@26 Ha ha ha, man, c'mon. He's a real estate developer. Hell, when I was practicing law we didn't even trust a developer as a client unless he had 5 or 6 b'cy filings.

Blogger Red Bane December 17, 2015 4:35 PM  

4 chapters in to Cuckservative. Great stuff. Positively reviewed on Amazon

Blogger VD December 17, 2015 4:43 PM  

In my year here in Washington I can say with certainty that there is NO realization here that anything has changed, either in America or the outside world.

Do they simply pay no attention to anything happening outside the Beltway?

Blogger praetorian December 17, 2015 4:48 PM  

Just had a lunch w/ a bunch of left-coast libertarian/liberal types. Consensus was that Trump was insane. Someone literally said "No one I know supports Trump."

WAKE ME UP.

I remember liking people.

Blogger Jourdan December 17, 2015 4:50 PM  

@30 - That is my strong impression, Vox. They still very firmly believe that the world as seen by the Washington Post is the real world.

After a year, the three things that strike me the most about this place are:

1) That there is a firm belief that the U.S. is a universal nation, and that foreigners are naught but pre-Americans.

2) That if Washington isn't minutely involved in every foreign affair around the world, disaster would strike.

3) That the Republican Party in Washington is full of decent guys who have to say outrageous things like pretending to want to defund Planned Parenthood in order to impress the cretins they've been stuck with as voters, but really we all believe the same stuff.

Anonymous WillBest December 17, 2015 4:57 PM  

They should move DC to Detroit (there is plenty of space). Probably solve a couple issues, at least temporarily.

Blogger Dave December 17, 2015 5:03 PM  

Trump's past history is to not pay creditors and file for bankruptcy to negate debts

That's the thing; if he's in the oval office, he's not beholden to any creditors, financiers, banksters. Golden toilet seats in every pot, er, on every commode.

Blogger Student in Blue December 17, 2015 5:06 PM  

That's the thing; if he's in the oval office, he's not beholden to any creditors, financiers, banksters. Golden toilet seats in every pot, er, on every commode.

So, uh, a successful CEO is way more likely to just blow all the money rather than a lifelong politician?

Color me unconvinced.

Blogger Phillip George December 17, 2015 5:08 PM  

novus ordo seclorum - nothing ever changes in Washington, but it did. Gradualism and the Hegelian dialect brought you to the new world secular order, very gradually - the train is fine. Rome's defenses failed when Rome ceased being good.

When Obama went to the Church of the Nativity he did not bow, bend the knee, honour the history - world history. It was perfect for him just to be there. He didn't need to bow. Metaphors like that cannot be improved on. Just being senators and congressmen is enough. "They" made it. Climbed the hill.

The secular new world order, may only get 42 months. Or maybe it gets less - days cut short and all. I'm guessing that at that bit.

Anonymous aegis-1080 December 17, 2015 5:11 PM  

"3) That the Republican Party in Washington is full of decent guys who have to say outrageous things like pretending to want to defund Planned Parenthood in order to impress the cretins they've been stuck with as voters, but really we all believe the same stuff."

So, they despise their own base. As expected. The feeling seems to be mutual, judging by Trump's poll numbers. The good news is that since neocons are so repulsive to absolutely everybody, when they endorse Shillary it all but ensures that Trump will become President.

Blogger Ron December 17, 2015 5:20 PM  

Im going to write some criticism here, and I hope this is taken in the spirit its presented, humbly,nrecognizing the author of the criticism is no better than anyone else, and could himself be wrong.

Here is the criticism: if we were not even capable of keeping women from getting the vote, then how capable are we of reversing any of the current disaster?

Blogger SirHamster December 17, 2015 5:23 PM  

Here is the criticism: if we were not even capable of keeping women from getting the vote, then how capable are we of reversing any of the current disaster?

We may not be capable. In that case, the system crashes and burns, and something that isn't fragile will take its place.

Blogger Dave December 17, 2015 5:28 PM  

a successful CEO

How successful was Trump Airlines? What is Donald's incentive to apply sound accounting principles to the federal government? Where is he going to truly cut spending or raise taxes? He will tinker around the edges if at all. It's not like the government will go out of business if the inflows are dwarfed by the outflows? Who's gonna foreclose on the feds?

Blogger VD December 17, 2015 5:35 PM  

if we were not even capable of keeping women from getting the vote, then how capable are we of reversing any of the current disaster?

We aren't. But we can hope. And pray.

Anonymous daddynichol December 17, 2015 5:37 PM  

Nothing matters outside the Beltway, so the options for change are becoming few and those that remain are not for those who faint at the sight of blood.

Anonymous BGS December 17, 2015 5:39 PM  

“I would give it an A-plus in terms of trying to reach out to the rank and file.”

If only he didn't do it with a dagger to the back.

They got rid of Boehner for nothing. What are they doing? At least Ryan isn't crying.

But we're going to hand Trump a limitless supply of blank checks and the no-limit country credit card and expect him to hold the line

I can see him saying "Sorry Planned Parenthood, your money went to the border, Israel I know jews are good with money so I don't think we need to give you $8billion a year, China no more AID to you while we still owe you money."

Trump's past history is to not pay creditors and file for bankruptcy to negate debts

As president he can do something similar following Iceland's example of tossing dirty banksters into jail instead of giving bailouts.

Do they simply pay no attention to anything happening outside the Beltway?

I doubt they pay attention to what happens inside the beltway, that doesn't involve money falling from the sky. Did an Obama supporter getting stabbed to death on july 4 on a train by a high on crack black, while a train car of people just looked on get covered by the area media?

So, they despise their own base. As expected. The feeling seems to be mutual, judging by Trump's poll numbers

That's why they are trying to import ""natural conservatives" from low IQ 3rd world nations, that function on the client-patron corruption model.

How successful was Trump Airlines?

Is there any business more regulated and crony capitalism controlled? Its as regulated as London Cabs, with cronism on a level of Solyndra

Blogger Rantor December 17, 2015 5:46 PM  

Working in the five sided wind tunnel, there was much joy among moderates, Cuckservatives, Liberals today. They got their budget, no shutdown, a little extra money from Cong. No one cares about deficits, unconstitutional government programs, dead babies, and only a few are impacted by Obamacare. DC is isolated. Politicos and their soldiers will be on the payroll for a long time yet.

Blogger Student in Blue December 17, 2015 5:48 PM  

@Dave
How successful was Trump Airlines?

Pretty much every single CEO that people consider successful has failed ventures under their belt. I don't even know how successful it was - it doesn't matter. It could have bombed terribly, but Trump is still here with money he made himself.

By everyone's metric that's a successful CEO.

Who's gonna foreclose on the feds?

One of the debtors. Maybe China. And who would actually rule on the foreclosure? Someone in the US Government who isn't allies with the other part of the US Government that is getting foreclosed on.

The federal government isn't monolithic.

What is Donald's incentive to apply sound accounting principles to the federal government? Where is he going to truly cut spending or raise taxes? He will tinker around the edges if at all. It's not like the government will go out of business if the inflows are dwarfed by the outflows?

In turn:
Not having a populace riot on him.
Off the top of my head? Lots of places, but Air Force is wasting a tonnnn of money buying planes several times more expensive than they need.
Federal government can go out of business, because State and Local governments can handle most, if not all, of the small day-to-day stuff. It'd just be effectively something like a confederacy.

Blogger Dave December 17, 2015 6:02 PM  

I can see him saying "Sorry Planned Parenthood, your money went to the border, Israel I know jews are good with money so I don't think we need to give you $8billion a year, China no more AID to you while we still owe you money."

Did the potus ever get line item veto? Otherwise congress decides where the money goes with input from the executive branch.

The Feds spend over $10B a day and almost half of it is borrowed. $8B is a drop in the ocean.

Blogger Dave December 17, 2015 6:08 PM  

Not having a populace riot on him.

Riots? Didn't you just read Vox's post on the riots in the Netherlands?


Federal government can go out of business

S in B have you read Victoria?

Blogger Dave December 17, 2015 6:12 PM  

Who's gonna foreclose on the feds?

One of the debtors. Maybe China.


Bwahahahaha what's China gonna do? send over some debt collectors? Evict us? lol

Blogger SteelPalm December 17, 2015 6:15 PM  

While Vox (rightly) criticized him a few weeks ago, Ben Shapiro had an excellent piece on this blasting these sell-out traitors;

http://www.dailywire.com/news/1943/meet-new-speaker-house-same-old-speaker-house-ben-shapiro

Blogger Noah B #120 December 17, 2015 6:28 PM  

This article, while it very likely is true, is also propaganda being broadcast with the aim of convincing voters to also give Ryan a pass.

Don't fall for is. Ryan is Boehner. Nothing important has changed.

Blogger LibertyPortraits December 17, 2015 6:39 PM  

But at least it's not a libertarian government because that would be a complete disaster.

Blogger Cataline Sergius December 17, 2015 6:48 PM  

@30


Do they simply pay no attention to anything happening outside the Beltway?


Dude, I've been there. It's the Forbidden Fucking City. To include the vast army of court eunuchs.

And yes indeed, the eunuchs run the show.

Blogger Nate December 17, 2015 7:10 PM  

As I said on twitter...

#SpeakerPaulBoehner

Blogger Danby December 17, 2015 7:13 PM  

what's China gonna do? send over some debt collectors? Evict us? lol

Crash our currency, of which they hold several trillion dollars. Followed by a new Depression, mass unemployment, etc etc.

Not world ending. It would eventually encourage the return of manufacturing jobs for instance.
But we would respond in exactly the wrong way, making the depression worse and longer than any in history. And our banking and finance industries would die. Immediately. As would our status as the world's reserve currency.

So yes, they can hurt us badly, without lifting a finger or exposing themselves to danger.

Blogger frigger611 December 17, 2015 7:16 PM  

Your penultimate paragraph was beautifully written. And sadly, succinct and accurate.

Blogger maniacprovost December 17, 2015 7:38 PM  

our banking and finance industries would die. Immediately. As would our status as the world's reserve currency.

Please don't throw us in that briar patch!

OpenID basementhomebrewer December 17, 2015 7:42 PM  

@33 Putting it in middle of nowhere Kansas or Oklahoma would be better. If it got moved there it would at least create the chance politicians would treat it like Springfield, IL and choose to spend their time else where. If that happened then the corrupt NYC/CHI/LA types couldn't rub off on reps from other parts of the country.

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY December 17, 2015 7:45 PM  

@Dave
" How successful was Trump Airlines?"
I can't remember who said it(maybe Henry Ford) Tat said "A man who has ever tried and failed never accomplished anything ? "
I'm sure I am paraphrasing it, but like baseball you don't hit a home run every time you step up to the plate.

OpenID basementhomebrewer December 17, 2015 7:48 PM  

Taking that idea further, rotating the National capital to each of the 50 state capitals every legislative session would be even better. All of the politicians would have to spend half the session figuring out where the best watering holes were in town. That make sure they had less time to cook up schemes to screw the governed.

Blogger James Dixon December 17, 2015 7:53 PM  

> Your note reminded me of the de Tocqueville quote: "America is great because America is good. And if America ceases to be good, she will cease to be great."

America was never good. Americans were free, which allowed the people to be good. And the less free the people are, the less good they can be.

> Crash our currency, of which they hold several trillion dollars.

They hold US debt in that quantity, not US dollars. If we repudiate the debt, that paper is worthless. They probably do hold several million dollars, but that's not a significant problem.

However, I seem to remember that sometime in the 90's the US government differentiated US based and foreign based dollars, possibly for specifically that reason.

Blogger Student in Blue December 17, 2015 7:55 PM  

@Dave
Riots? Didn't you just read Vox's post on the riots in the Netherlands?

And...? At which point did Vox ever say it was impossible for Americans to riot? If anything, rioting in Europe ought to make American politicians wake up a bit.

S in B have you read Victoria?

No.

Bwahahahaha what's China gonna do? send over some debt collectors? Evict us? lol

Danby already got this one.

Blogger Student in Blue December 17, 2015 7:59 PM  

Bwahahahaha what's China gonna do? send over some debt collectors? Evict us? lol

But I will add on: If POTUS has zero intention of paying back money and just racks up the debt, it's probably going to be almost impossible to get a loan.
If there are no creditors, then government can't borrow anymore from other countries. If the government prints more money recklessly, they hyperinflate the money.

Money does not pop into existence out of nowhere, after all.

If Trump was also someone who never paid back his debtors, he never would get loans, so I believe your original point is moot.

Anonymous Godfrey December 17, 2015 8:05 PM  

"...the vast majority of human history, governments have ruled without much interference from the governed. What we are witnessing is simply a return to historical normalcy." Vox Day


Read that again folks. Chances are that the ancestors of the vast majority of the people reading these posts were slaves, serfs and indentured servants. That's been the lot of the vast multitudes of humanity throughout history. That's reality.

Leftism is the road back - BACK! - to serfdom. The Leftist is ignorant of the human condition. The Leftist is ignorant of human history. The Leftist really believes, with religious faith, the promises of power seeking psychopaths. He really believes the psychopath's lie of a secular egalitarian utopia.

The modern Leftist is the modern day equivalent to the ancient Egyptian who actually believed Pharaoh was god. We on the other hand are the ancient Egyptians who snickered at the thought.

Blogger James Dixon December 17, 2015 8:07 PM  

> But I will add on: If POTUS has zero intention of paying back money and just racks up the debt, it's probably going to be almost impossible to get a loan.

SiB, I hate to break this to you, but we have no intention of ever paying back that debt. We'll just keep borrowing until the money runs out, then we'll do what every other country throughout history has done, repudiate it.

And yes, even with interest rates at all time lows, it's pretty hard to get a loan now, though I believe it's a bit easier than it was a few years ago.

Blogger Danby December 17, 2015 8:12 PM  

They hold US debt in that quantity, not US dollars. If we repudiate the debt, that paper is worthless.
1) a distinction without a difference
2) they probably will, which will actually speed up the crash. About half of Us gov expenditures are debt. What happens when no one buys the debt anymore?
What happens when we can't import food anymore?
What happens when we can't import basic household goods anymore?

As maniac says above, Please don't throw us in that briar patch brer China! We would have to stop deficit spending! We'd recover our ability to grow, mine, and manufacture! Oh no!
Still the economic dislocation would cause a depression, which we would try to spend our way out of. Recovery would take decades, if it came at all.

OpenID basementhomebrewer December 17, 2015 8:13 PM  

@62 "If the government prints more money recklessly, they hyperinflate the money."

This is where your argument is wrong. Look up what monetizing debt is. Then look up what QE1 and QE2 were. We have already been printing money without foreign countries loaning it to us. Hyperinflation will only occur if those same foreign countries stop accepting dollars at a reasonable rate in lieu of their own currency.

Anonymous Godfrey December 17, 2015 8:20 PM  

The Republicans are worse than useless. They're the Democrat Party "B" Team. It's possible there won't be a Republican Party in ten years. Is there really a need for a second Democrat Party?

OpenID sigbouncer December 17, 2015 8:24 PM  

Here is the thing with a Trump Presidency. Ask yourself what do you think will happen when members of the House or Senate disagree with Trump and his proposals? And if you haven't figured it out, here is your answer. Trump will call them out one by one and be relentless in his telling the American people to fire them.

The problematic ones in the Senate and the House won't get a second term in a Trump Presidency because the man has balls and isn't afraid to call them out.

Blogger Krul December 17, 2015 8:39 PM  

OT: Putin praises 'bright and talented' Trump

Anonymous Dave December 17, 2015 9:00 PM  

But I will add on: If POTUS has zero intention of paying back money and just racks up the debt, it's probably going to be almost impossible to get a loan.

S in B are you USA citizen? You should study how the 3 branches of the federal government work. POTUS doesn't control the $.


If Trump was also someone who never paid back his debtors, he never would get loans, so I believe your original point is moot.

If this is the moot point you're talking about I didn't post it: "Trump's past history is to not pay creditors and file for bankruptcy to negate debts."

But you should study some more what happens when you declare bankruptcy. It involves not paying back most or all of your debt.

Anonymous Aircraft Guy December 17, 2015 9:03 PM  

@40 Dave

How successful was Trump Airlines?

More successful than Obama Airlines, Woodrow Wilson Airlines, Bill Clinton Airlines, FDR Airlines, Reagan Airlines, etc.

Don't be a Dick, Dave.

OpenID sigbouncer December 17, 2015 9:17 PM  

"Trump's past history is to not pay creditors and file for bankruptcy to negate debts."


To be accurate his should read: A very small percentage of Trump's past history entailed Trump playing by the rules of business set forth and using the lesser bankruptcy laws to his advantage. As many other successful intelligent businessmen have.

Anonymous Dave December 17, 2015 9:21 PM  

My point of contention is throwing around this "successful CEO" crap. Mostly, he's been successful at marketing his name and image.

"Consider the following: Despite Trump’s own garish (and hard to confirm) descriptions of his net worth, he has reigned over failed (and, yes, bankrupt) casinos and real estate, and nearly went insolvent himself. This is all after inheriting a fortune from his real estate developer-father. The younger Trump made some money back, but mostly as a marketer of his name and a reality show star.

Let’s start with Trump. Yes, in the early 1990s he was nearly insolvent, he was involved in a messy divorce, and his casinos were heading toward bankruptcy. Not a great place to be, and based on my experience covering business and finance, executives in that position rarely rebuild both their wealth and their career.

But Trump did, and his pivot was brilliant: He understood that his best attribute wasn’t as a land speculator—in fact, that’s what got him in trouble. But as a showman and brand manager, he’s near genius. By utilizing those skills, he began to rebuild the Trump brand piece by piece, first through books and then through relentless hype on television. Yes, he can be a blowhard and a nasty chauvinistic prick. But a lot of people who got to know him also liked the image he began to cultivate: that of a man who spoke straight and exuded wealth even if he had lost nearly all of it.

This brand got his name on plenty of high-end buildings in New York City, even if he doesn’t outright own them, allowing him to collect a regular fee with almost no risk. This brand gave him a reality TV show, The Apprentice—successful thanks to Trump’s unique way of firing people. It’s why, for all his rhetorical excesses, he still leads in the polls, even if he doesn’t know the difference between the Kurds and the Quds."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/09/18/donald-trump-v-carly-fiorina-who-s-the-better-ceo.html

Anonymous Aircraft Guy Noses into the Ground December 17, 2015 9:24 PM  

Bill Clinton Airlines? Wasn't that Hooter Air?

Blogger Student in Blue December 17, 2015 9:32 PM  

@James Dixon
SiB, I hate to break this to you, but we have no intention of ever paying back that debt. We'll just keep borrowing until the money runs out, then we'll do what every other country throughout history has done, repudiate it.

Of course. If POTUS is literally lining the toilets with gold and borrowing quadrillions in a year, however, any debtor will get nervous and balk at loaning. That's the point I was attempting to make, it just wasn't that clear.

S in B are you USA citizen? You should study how the 3 branches of the federal government work. POTUS doesn't control the $.

Then why are you making arguments as if POTUS Trump will control the $?

If this is the moot point you're talking about I didn't post it: "Trump's past history is to not pay creditors and file for bankruptcy to negate debts."

But you should study some more what happens when you declare bankruptcy. It involves not paying back most or all of your debt.


So if POTUS doesn't control the $, this is a moot point, right?

Otherwise you're literally saying "He went bankrupt, he's a failure as a CEO", which then means that Walt Disney, Henry Ford, Milton Hershey, Charles Goodyear, Phineas Barnum, Henry John Heinz, etc etc etc are all failures as CEOs.

Blogger Student in Blue December 17, 2015 9:33 PM  

Woops, forgot to mark that I was addressing @Dave starting at the
S in B are you USA citizen? You should study how the 3 branches of the federal government work. POTUS doesn't control the $.

OpenID sigbouncer December 17, 2015 9:39 PM  

@ Dave


Basically, the man took a $40 million kernel and, while spending lavishly enough to surround himself with all the gold-plated bathroom fixtures his heart desired, managed to do a 26 percent better job growing his fortune than if he had quietly left it to grow in stocks without selling a single share or spending a single dividend check for 41 years. I'd say that's pretty good. How many actual money managers could brag they'd done the same with their clients' cash?

Of course, Trump is not strictly an investor. Throughout his career he has been a real estate developer and manager, a builder of golf courses, a casino magnate, a reality TV host, a celebrity who slaps his name on assorted buildings for a fee, a hawker of power ties, and much more. This cuts against the idea that he is merely a glorified trust-fund kid: Rather than sit on his wealth while someone else saw to its care, he decided to jump into a number of highly entertaining, risky, and at times ill-advised business ventures, which have collectively turned him into an international celebrity. He took risks with the money he was given, and they seem to have paid off over time, both financially and personally. Meanwhile, Trump runs a company with thousands of employees. Whatever wealth he has created for himself, the total value that his company has created over the years is probably far greater.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2015/09/03/donald_trump_s_wealth_he_isn_t_only_rich_because_of_his_dad.html

Blogger Elocutioner December 17, 2015 9:47 PM  

Well, if Dave and the Daily Beast say it's so then it's so. You read what he posted. Trump amassed his immense personal fortune by being a showman, not by being a great CEO. Kind of like how Steve Jobs despite himself raked in $100B+ in profits for his company. But he wasn't a good CEO. He was even fired early on after nearly tanking his company. He did a terrible job.

Why don't you want America to be great, Dave?

Blogger Joshua Sinistar December 17, 2015 9:52 PM  

All of you are afraid of a paper tiger. Captain Simian isn't a traitor, he's an enemy. He's been throwing monkey wrenches into the works for seven years. The System is getting weaker every day.
It is breaking down. Their revolutionaries are just bums looking for handouts and paycheck soldiers. We have to fight for what is ours, they will run when they start falling down. This is our home, not theirs. When the Shit Hits The Fan they will run home.

Anonymous Dave December 17, 2015 9:54 PM  

@S in B "He might, he might not. I'm tempted to believe he'll trim the fat to try and make the country "profitable", aka running it like a successful business"

I believe this is where it started in response to my blank check statement. Blank check is rhetorical. Congress submits a budget to POTUS and he approves it so obviously he has input on the $. POTUS also uses the bully pulpit of the presidency to try and move the gov't/country towards his positions.

Nobody is saying that Donald hasn't had some business success but he's in no way the best representative of a "successful CEO" and so I was trying to caution you that expecting him to run the government like a business would be a stretch.

You didn't answer my question re USA citizen.

Blogger Unknown December 17, 2015 9:57 PM  

@66 hyperinflation is when the demand for liquidity goes to zero. That is, everyone gets rid of currency at least as fast as it comes in. So, it starts over night, when enough folks lose confidence in the currency. What you proposed could easily cause hyperinflation, but almost anything could trigger that loss of confidence. We won't know what it takes to cause hyperinflation in the US until it starts... and neither will the Fed. How much QE will it take? More. We hope we don't find out how much more.

Blogger Daniel December 17, 2015 10:12 PM  

Filing for bankruptcy and declaring jubilee is the only option we have now. Trump could handle that.

OpenID sigbouncer December 17, 2015 10:26 PM  

"Nobody is saying that Donald hasn't had some business success but he's in no way the best representative of a "successful CEO"

Then you should have no trouble naming several CEO's who have run similar multifaceted businesses as Trump has with the same or better current net worth from said ventures.

Let's see your list of CEOs with multiple business ventures who better Trump financially, Dave? Who has run the gamut of businesses that Trump has and done better?


Blogger Neanderserk December 17, 2015 10:31 PM  

As Machiavelli pointed out, once a people's virtue is lost, nothing can restore it.

Only a crucible of suffering equal to the harshness of the original conditions will suffice.

That would be... the French and Indian wars, plus colonial poverty. Hmm, how might that eventuate?

Measure Sparta's dominion; count Rome's legions. There is no new thing under the sun... except the new suns siloed darkly under the earth, and their counterpart burgeoning in Fed balance sheets.

The sun rose in the East, but it will set in the West.

Anonymous Spamalot December 17, 2015 10:55 PM  

Do they simply pay no attention to anything happening outside the Beltway?

Most of my contact is with the low-level borg 40 minutes NE of the beltway. Mostly nice people but fucking clueless. They mindlessly go about the master assimilation plan.

Blogger Dire Badger December 18, 2015 12:04 AM  

I am sorry Vox, but I strongly disagree with the last line in your article.

No government can rule without the consent of it's people. Sometimes that consent takes on the form of being too terrified or nonviolent to overthrow the government, but even the largest, best armed, and most oppressive governments in history could be toppled overnight without the active participation and empowerment of it's citizens.

Blogger OneWingedShark December 18, 2015 12:27 AM  

@84 "As Machiavelli pointed out, once a people's virtue is lost, nothing can restore it."

And yet, God said "When I shut up the heavens so that there is no rain, or command the locust to devour the land, or send pestilence among my people, if my people who are called by my name humble themselves, pray, seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land." -- While it was indeed spoken to Solomon, and certainly about Israel, when looked at in the context of 1 Tim 2:1-4 and James 5:13-18 it seems far more applicable than not.

First off, the promise is conditional on the people humbling themselves and praying and seeking God's face.

Now "seeking God's face" has a very strong correlation with 'righteousness' (see here). So seeking God's face would result in more righteousness, which is important given James 5: "The prayer of the righteous is powerful and effective."

1 Tim says: "First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for everyone, for kings and all who are in high positions, so that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and dignity. This is right and is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."

So, obviously, the righteous Christian is supposed to pray for his nation... and we already know that the righteous man's prayers are effectual. (And remember God's conversation with Abraham: "For the sake of ten [righteous men], I will not destroy it [the city of Sodom].")

Anonymous Roundtine December 18, 2015 12:31 AM  

Lots of people in the world and throughout history lacked voting rights, but secured whatever they valued even as a minority. Look at guns as an issue, people simple draw a red line on guns and it is the one issue you can say conservatives have made gains on.

Blogger TheRedSkull December 18, 2015 12:36 AM  

Men of Westernesse! The hour is late. Your isle, too, can sink beneath the waves.

History hangs by a thread. Now heroes are made. The fame of this battle will last till the end of time.

Skynet is the central bank. I am John Connor, and so can you.

Anonymous kfg December 18, 2015 12:39 AM  

@48: " . . . what's China gonna do? send over some debt collectors? Evict us? lol"

Nixon believed de Gaulle would.

Blogger Student in Blue December 18, 2015 1:02 AM  

@Dave
I believe this is where it started in response to my blank check statement. Blank check is rhetorical. Congress submits a budget to POTUS and he approves it so obviously he has input on the $. POTUS also uses the bully pulpit of the presidency to try and move the gov't/country towards his positions.

Just so I'm clear... you started the whole conversation by urging people that "Trump as POTUS will just waste all of our money!" then walk it back later on by saying "Okay, well the POTUS actually isn't in control of the money..."

So, uh... what was your original point again?

You didn't answer my question re USA citizen.

I didn't see how it was pertinent, so I erred on the side of OpSec.

OpenID Jack Amok December 18, 2015 1:44 AM  

how capable are we of reversing any of the current disaster?

There is no reversing it. The train is headed off a cliff with way too much momentum to stop in time, so there is going to be a wreck and the train will most assuredly not be fine.

The game now is how we recover and what sort of society we rebuild upon the ashes of the not-so-fine train. Trump is important not because he's the best chance to fix things - he's not, no one is - but because his election would be a sign the common man is pissed off enough to flip over the card table.

Or, to keep up the train metaphor, the only way to avoid going over the cliff is to derail the train and crash before we get there. A Trump-in-the-China-Shop is our best chance at derailing the train early.

OpenID Jack Amok December 18, 2015 1:54 AM  

Did the potus ever get line item veto? Otherwise congress decides where the money goes with input from the executive branch.

Shit, you think laws still mean anything? I'm not sure exactly when we stopped being a nation of laws (different people will have different opinions on that), but as of today, we are a nation of whatever anyone can get away with. The Obama administration had no authority to screw GM bond-holders, but they did. Toujours l'audace baby. Toujours l'audace.

And anyone with Trump's hair is pretty damned l'audace.

Blogger TheRedSkull December 18, 2015 2:24 AM  

Why Jacquerie, you run Amok like a most revolting French peasant. Guillotine!

Blogger Phillip George December 18, 2015 2:32 AM  

interesting posts. Half the posters are running a sort of "too big to fail" line of thinking. But economics is about ethnic block voting as well. Which is why I think Kissinger came out and said get behind Putin real politik in Syria and do it quickly.. Don't piss BRICS off beyond that point of no return. But secretly I suspect they have already. Tianjin was no accident. China are as mad as hell and aren't going to put up with it anymore. Japan has the worlds number one drone program underway - because struxnet in Fukushima.
I realize this is raising the conspiracies flag high but put it this way: Mount Weather wasn't built for extreme weather events.

Basically, we are writing as if the money moguls are sane. That could very much be a mistaken line of thought. What if there really is a breathtaking stupidity in "?elite circles". Watch this space.

Blogger James Dixon December 18, 2015 2:33 AM  

Danby, I assume most of your questions were rhetorical, but for the benefit of readers:

> About half of Us gov expenditures are debt. What happens when no one buys the debt anymore?

We won't be able to borrow any more. We'll either have to stop deficit spending or print the money and risk inflation.

> What happens when we can't import food anymore?

We'll have to get by on what we can grow ourselves. That isn't a problem. We grow enough food. We may have to diversify our crops.

> What happens when we can't import basic household goods anymore?

We do without or start making our own again.

> We would have to stop deficit spending! We'd recover our ability to grow, mine, and manufacture! Oh no!

Exactly.

> Still the economic dislocation would cause a depression, which we would try to spend our way out of. Recovery would take decades, if it came at all.

If we try to spend our way out of it without being able to borrow, we'll have to simply print the money. At that point we risk hyperinflation and the collapse of the US government. Will our leadership be that stupid? I don't know, but our current leadership is.

And yes, recovery could take decades. And we'll probably never again be the world power we were. C'est la vie.

The real question is how such events will affect the rest of the world. There are way to many variables there to make even remotely reasonable projections. War seems a likely outcome though.

Blogger Phillip George December 18, 2015 2:35 AM  

typo: Stuxnet.

Blogger Dire Badger December 18, 2015 2:44 AM  

@James Dixon-
"And yes, recovery could take decades. And we'll probably never again be the world power we were. C'est la vie."

I disagree. Is Russia no longer a world power? We have everything they have and a whole lot more.

It may take a couple of decades of hard labor (and a new generation not born to luxury and laziness), but we will absolutely be back as long as our population has not been too 'diversified'. Never underestimate the power of Pissed-off K selected white people.

OpenID Jack Amok December 18, 2015 2:45 AM  

Why Jacquerie, you run Amok like a most revolting French peasant. Guillotine!

Mais oui, mon ami, mais oui. Possiblement nous employer au lieu le - how you say? - Poteau du lampe?

Blogger James Dixon December 18, 2015 5:47 AM  

> Is Russia no longer a world power? We have everything they have and a whole lot more.

The Soviet Union was a world power, not Russia. The Soviet Union no longer exists. Russia is still on par with what they were in the 1800's. We would probably be the same.

Blogger Skylark Thibedeau December 18, 2015 10:38 AM  

I thought Bill Clinton ran Mena Airlines and Importing Services there in Arkansas.

Blogger Danby December 18, 2015 12:22 PM  

@James Dixon
You and I agree, except you actually asked the question:
Will our leadership be that stupid?

The last president that wasn't that stupid was Calvin Coolidge.

Blogger SciVo December 18, 2015 1:23 PM  

Daniel @10: Donald Trump to Senate: "I love the Senate. Great people. Great parties. We don't really need them where we are going, though. So no one gets hurt, I'll build them a playpen. In Mexico. Mexico's amazing. Just amazing."

Ha! Great impersonation. I'm still chuckling.

Blogger SciVo December 18, 2015 4:58 PM  

WillBest @14: I think one of the more interesting parts about a Trump presidency is we will find out if Roberts just worships the executive branch or if he has gone native.

I thought it was clear from his body language during his confirmation proceedings that he's intelligent and submissive. I was incredibly surprised when they made him chief, and then years later finally understood that the whole point was to have a submissive chief justice that would do horrible things because his social peers said to.

I get why the GOPe doesn't care about the whole PP thing, but the Syrian thing makes no sense. A Congress that were seen as actively doing things consistent with slowing Muslims coming into the US and increasing the screen mechanisms for legal immigration, would placate people. It defies logic to anger people on an issue who are already worked up over it. Its like they learned nothing from their European globalist allies about pushing people to hard to fast.

They don't understand because BLM riots over nonsensical reasons, Europeans riot over sensical reasons, and we don't do either.

We will wait until things are so intolerable that we will murder them and their families in their beds, and they will die incredibly confused.

Blogger SciVo December 18, 2015 5:13 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger SciVo December 18, 2015 5:24 PM  

I know that sounds awful, but if you think it doesn't make sense, then you haven't been paying attention to human history. Horrible rulers push their peons to the breaking point, over and over and over again.

Blogger SciVo December 18, 2015 5:42 PM  

Phillip George @95: Basically, we are writing as if the money moguls are sane.

No. I assume that they're midwits, which is not the same as insane, but also not particularly complimentary.

Blogger SciVo December 18, 2015 5:56 PM  

Jourdan @17: In my year here in Washington I can say with certainty that there is NO realization here that anything has changed, either in America or the outside world.

I didn't know you were there, and you have my sympathies. I remember a story from a friend from when he was new here in the Portland area, he was on a bus or train or something and overheard a conversation where the one was unfazed by the other working at a bakery.

I know, most of you are thinking, what? Why not? But my friend was from northern Virginia, where so many of our putative "elites" are from, and the answer there would've been "Oh. I see." So he was amazed that the conversation continued from that point, without pause.

Blogger Gerry Tork December 18, 2015 7:39 PM  

@7 I lived in Ottawa. It's radioactive. Four years and my dosimeter went off, so I got out with just the political equivalent of daily chest x-rays while smoking 3 packs a day in Fukushima.

Others stay, and a strange mutation, starting with that cuckoo sound, begins after five years.

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