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Friday, December 11, 2015

Ignoring the elephant

Paul Krugman may call it "ugliness", but he nevertheless does a better job of explaining the massive shift in American and European politics to frightened American left-liberals than one might have expected. Unfortunately, he omitted the most important element, which is to say, immigration:

My European friends will no doubt say that I’m oversimplifying, but from an American perspective it looks as if Europe’s establishment has tried to freeze the xenophobic right, not just out of political power, but out of any role in acceptable discourse. To be a respectable European politician, whether of the left or of the right, you have had to accept the European project of ever-closer union, of free movement of people, open borders, and harmonized regulations. This leaves no room for right-wing nationalists, even though right-wing nationalism has always had substantial popular support.

What the European establishment may not have realized, however, is that its ability to define the limits of discourse rests on the perception that it knows what it is doing. Even admirers and supporters of the European project (like me) have to admit that it has never had deep popular support or a lot of democratic legitimacy. It is, instead, an elite project sold largely on the claim that there is no alternative, that it is the path of wisdom.

And there’s nothing quite like sustained poor economic performance – the kind of poor performance brought on by Europe’s austerity and hard-money obsessions — to undermine the elite’s reputation for competence. That’s probably why one recent study found a consistent historical relationship between financial crises and the rise of right-wing extremism. And history is repeating itself.

The story is quite different in America, because the Republican Party hasn’t tried to freeze out the kind of people who vote National Front in France. Instead, it has tried to exploit them, mobilizing their resentment via dog whistles to win elections. This was the essence of Richard Nixon’s “southern strategy,” and explains why the G.O.P. gets the overwhelming majority of Southern white votes.

But there is a strong element of bait-and-switch to this strategy. Whatever dog whistles get sent during the campaign, once in power the G.O.P. has made serving the interests of a small, wealthy economic elite, especially through big tax cuts, its main priority — a priority that remains intact, as you can see if you look at the tax plans of the establishment presidential candidates this cycle.

Sooner or later the angry whites who make up a large fraction, maybe even a majority, of the G.O.P. base were bound to rebel — especially because these days much of the party’s leadership seems inbred and out of touch.
What the liberal-left elite tends to forget is that a lot of liberals and left-wingers are still nationalists at heart. They may want a liberal, or a left-wing France, or America, or Britain, but they still want it to be identifiably France, America, or Britain. That's why Front National, Trump, and UKIP, among others, are actually drawing more heavily from the Socialists, the Democrats, and Labour than they are from the center-right parties.

Immigration is a cross-spectrum issue, and until you realize that, you cannot understand that it is the only issue that matters in Western politics now. Everything else is akin to worrying about the details of French pension payments when the Wehrmacht is blitzkrieging past the Maginot Line.

Labels: ,

125 Comments:

Blogger dc.sunsets December 11, 2015 8:07 AM  

Yeah, Krugman's funny-money regime doesn't rob the middle & favor the wealthy & politically connected, no, not at all.

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 December 11, 2015 8:08 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous Godfrey December 11, 2015 8:09 AM  

Israel has a wall.

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 December 11, 2015 8:11 AM  

And once again, Krugman comes out as partisan as possible. Otherwise he might note that the Democratic Party engages in dog whistling (as he calls it) openly when it courts the black and Latino votes: by insisting that Republicans are racist and hate "brown people", and that they must vote for Democrats in order to be protected from "right-wing racism". Never mind the actual effect of Democratic policies on those blacks and Latinos.

And blaming austerity for the economic troubles: I think debt has a far greater explanatory power than austerity, at least as far as Europe's economic woes are concerned. But Krugman, alas, is part of the economic school that believes that debt is effectively meaningless, because the government can't run out of money.

(Obviously, what follows is merely my understanding; I'm aware that I am not a professional economist, and am almost entirely self-taught) Austerity in Europe has been a largely unpopular means of addressing long-term debt, and it unfortunately hasn't been very effective: it concentrates more on raising taxes than it does on cutting spending, with the result being depressed economic activity. But no one wants to address the thing that created the debt in the first place: namely, the welfare state.

Political effects of immigration aside (which are considerable), Krugman seems to no longer be capable of the slightest bit of dispassionate analysis: no matter what the troubles are, he has to blame the Right. Even in discussions about elitist failures, the real trouble has to be the fact that the Right exists. Whether or not the Right represents legitimate concerns that need to be part of the public discourse doesn't even enter his mind.

Anonymous Weak December 11, 2015 8:14 AM  

White Knight, those aren't Democrat dog whistles, they are explicit statements they use. Dog whistles are hidden messages beneath the text that only "the party dogs* can hear.

Blogger dc.sunsets December 11, 2015 8:18 AM  

The good professor is a double-whammy: His status as a High Priest of the Universalist Cathedral comes from both being a (put in a Prussian or British accent) Professor and a media celebrity/personality.

This makes everything he produces an almost untainted, perfect-focus example of Universalist Dogma in the areas of Political Economy.

I'll give him his due: his insight on the GOP's naked mining of Nationalist/Race-consciousness/Reality-based sentiments to add to the cuckservatives' contribution to the Universalist status quo is spot on. The GOP was always (as part of the mainstream) a wing of the Bird Of Prey (Universalism) masquerading as "opposition" so heretics in the congregation had a water cooler to gather at and vent their frustrations without effect.

Trump (and other people who jump to the head of the Nationalist/Reality-based parade) is a new rallying point, one that frightens the Universalists because now the energies of change are not dissipating harmlessly.

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 December 11, 2015 8:26 AM  

@5

Which is why I said "openly". Some of their statements do qualify as "dog whistles" though, like our former AG talking about "my people".

He's disparaging what he calls "dog whistles" because he can't believe that conservatives actually want things like law&order, low taxes, voter ID and gun rights. It *has* to be because we think those things negatively affect brown people.

Whereas the Left openly engages in racist argumentation for their policies. My point is that even now, during a piece where he's acknowledging that the rise of the Right is due to public perception of incompetence of the Left, he still has to insist that the Right is racist. He's a giant hypocrite even when he's criticizing his own side's performance.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan December 11, 2015 8:26 AM  

Ask not about what he says but what cultural background he comes from, it's his script and he is sticking it. Frankly speaking IMO tikkun olon or however it is spelled is descending into farce, farce with guns pointed at you, me and our future

Blogger JC December 11, 2015 8:28 AM  

Krugman is delusional. Hard money politics aré causing the left's problems?

Blogger Jew613 December 11, 2015 8:33 AM  

Krugman is pretty on in his analysis of the GOPe. I believe this is also why Trump can win. The old pillar of the Democratic party the white working class likes Trump because Trump seems to be a genuine nationalist.

Blogger IM2L844 December 11, 2015 8:36 AM  

There you go with that pesky critical thinking again, Vox. It's almost as if you enjoy watching heads explode.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan December 11, 2015 8:37 AM  

Want to know where Krugman comes from see the movie "Dirty Dancing", and that is as about as serious you need to take him

Blogger Irene W December 11, 2015 8:39 AM  

What's wrong with describing some of the anti-immigrant rhetoric of Stormfronters and even some Trumpeteers as "ugliness?" Its ugliness is due to its being anti-immigrANT rhetoric rather than anti-immiGRATION rhetoric.

Blogger Sean December 11, 2015 8:41 AM  

Another leftwing analysis that touches at the truth without grasping it. For those leftoids reading this, let me spell it out:

People aren't just economic inputs. They are cultural entities. They prefer to live with their own people, under their laws and informed by their own customs. The leftwing project of mass immigration, demographic replacement and alienating whites from their own heritage is behind the sudden growth of the far right.

Unless the left is willing to deal with this and engage in a productive way (and the estblished left will not) this will grow and grow.

Blogger TheLiberatorOfBados December 11, 2015 8:44 AM  

"Immigration is a cross-spectrum issue, and until you realize that, you cannot understand that it is the only issue that matters in Western politics now. Everything else is akin to worrying about the details of French pension payments when the Wehrmacht is blitzkrieging past the Maginot Line."

Bam. If you listen to what the guys on the ground level of the campaign are saying, they are getting people from the ENTIRE political spectrum, ESPECIALLY people that haven't voted in years, decades, or EVER. This is the kind of support the other candidates can't pick up because nobody trusts them to stick up for the country like people trust that Trump can.

Nationalism goes beyond all else. Political Correctness is dead, because it's no longer effectual as a club to beat people with that don't go along to get along. People are fighting back now. And our enemies are stupefied and powerless to do a damn thing about it.

Blogger Skylark Thibedeau December 11, 2015 8:46 AM  

Krugman had issues with basic accounting principles when he was an economic advisor to ENRON too.

Blogger Gaiseric December 11, 2015 8:49 AM  

Yes, we all know Krugman is delusional, and is more of a parody of an economist than a real one.

That said; the point is that he's right on this one issue. The Right (for various squishy definitions of the Right) has been shut out of the discussion, the Left has taken over and established the EU without any legitimate mandate from anyone.

He's a Leftist, speaking Leftist to an audience of Leftists. So don't get hung up on that. The point is, he can at least actually see what the issue is to the Right. He's not as clueless as most Leftists, who just default to "hate" as their rationale for everything that we do.

Anonymous Big Bill December 11, 2015 8:53 AM  

"And there’s nothing quite like sustained poor economic performance – the kind of poor performance brought on by Europe’s austerity and hard-money obsessions — to undermine the elite’s reputation for competence."

What "austerity" is he talking about? Europe is spending tens of billions of euros giving free food, free housing, free medical care, free education, free counseling, free policing, free fire protection and free transportation to a million horny Muslim invaders. That doesn't sound "austere" to me. It is profligate.

In other news, a Muslim man was found guilty of burning a 17 year old Finnish girl to death for breaking up with him:

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/12/01/afghan-migrant-brutally-raped-burnt-death-young-european-wanted-break/

The Europeans had better start adding "free p*ssy" to the list of Muslim freebies or no Finnish girl is going to feel safe on the streets.

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 December 11, 2015 8:55 AM  

@17

Fair enough. This article is one of those that really has a "ring of truth" to it. I wonder if the Left is going to step up and take notice, or if all they're going to do is step up their efforts to hide the corruption and incompetence.

Anonymous Paul (#348) December 11, 2015 9:04 AM  

OT but too funny, Leo DiCaprio experiences a Chinook for first time and shits himself:

""Actor Leonardo DiCaprio attracted widespread derision from the people of Calgary after he cited the city’s famously unusual weather as “terrifying” evidence of climate change.

“We would come and there would be eight feet of snow, and then all of a sudden a warm gust of wind would come,” DiCaprio told Variety.com, describing it as a “scary” vision of things to come.

“It’s terrifying, and it’s what people are talking about all over the world. And it’s simply just going to get worse.”"

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/leonardo-dicaprio-witnesses-a-terrifying-sign-of-climate-change-in-calgary-a-chinook

Blogger Thomas Davidsmeier December 11, 2015 9:06 AM  

@13

The reason people don't support immiGRATION is because too many immiGRANTs are criminals and ne'er-do-wells. If immiGRANTs really were willing and ready (as well as able) to assimilate and give up all of their upbringing and culture to become members of the American people, there would be a lot less objections to immiGRATION.

The problems start with the fact that immiGRANTs aren't ready to assimilate, aren't willing to assimilate, and, in many cases, aren't even capable of assimilating. The surveys of immiGRANTs and their plans to return to their home countries should be more than clear enough on this point.

My grandmother was from Mexico. Her parents came here fleeing Vox's Mexican revolutionary relative most likely. When they got here, the father of the family made all of the kids speak English, even when they were at home. He wanted them to be assimilated, and he took the steps necessary to do it. Yet, even in his own house, he couldn't get everybody to play along. The mother never spoke a word of English (even though she understood it) till the day she died. She refused to because it was, "lengua fea," or so I'm told.

Blogger Dr. J December 11, 2015 9:13 AM  

Krugman's analysis of the GOP here is so lucid, pointed and correct that I find it hard to believe he actually wrote it. Must be what the alcoholics describe as that moment of clarity, or a broken clock scenario. He returns to form with the asinine austerity statement, though.

Blogger buzzardist December 11, 2015 9:16 AM  

Meh. Krugman is an economist who has always had only one bell to ring. Austerity bad! Government must spend more! Ding! Dong! Ding! Dong! It's all he knows.

This isn't to say that Krugman is entirely wrong about sub-par economic performance helping to bring nationalist fervor to the forefront in European politics, but I'd have thought that even he couldn't miss waves of immigrants pouring across unguarded borders and major terrorist attacks in France as harbingers of a rise in nationalism. But, nope, it's austerity bad, let's spend, with a passing dig at all of those racist Southern hicks when he turns his attention to America. Classy.

Blogger Artisanal Toad December 11, 2015 9:16 AM  

@13

Its ugliness is due to its being anti-immigrANT rhetoric rather than anti-immiGRATION rhetoric.

Your comment indicates that you, like the leadership Krugman described, are if not inbred then certainly out of touch with reality.

One chooses whether to allow people into their home at all, and if one chooses to allow people in it is perfectly correct to only allow the people in that they choose. They may reject whomever they wish, after all, it's their home.

It is not ugliness to say the wealthy, well-educated, white European Christian gets in and the poor, uneducated, brown North-African Muslim does not; because, after all, it's their home. And guess what? When they get to the point they can't take the behavior of some of the people they let in, those people will be thrown out. Or exterminated.

There is no magic dirt. Anywhere.

Blogger Desiderius December 11, 2015 9:25 AM  

"worrying about the details of French pension payments when the Wehrmacht is blitzkrieging past the Maginot Line"

What, they worry? If the Wehrmacht keep the geld flowing, they're welcomed with opened arms!

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 December 11, 2015 9:30 AM  

@24

I've struggled with the "the country is our home" argument before, because of how it relates to zoning laws and the effects those have on poor people. Thomas Sowell highlights the effect that such laws had in creating the housing crisis by making land and housing artificially more expensive.

He pointed out that a lot of McMansions would instead be apartment complexes if local zoning laws allowed it, and the poorer people in that town or county would better be able to afford their rent thereby. And of course, if you live across town, why should you have a say in whether an apartment complex is built or not? It's not next-door to you.

I found my answer in the point that the people who live near to the project would have a say. People crossing the border is an abstract issue, but when they cross the border, they have to live somewhere. So it quickly goes from being an abstract national issue, to a very concrete and local one.

Blogger Unknown December 11, 2015 9:33 AM  

``Meh. Krugman is an economist who has always had only one bell to ring. Austerity bad! Government must spend more! Ding! Dong! Ding! Dong! It's all he knows.''

It's all any academic economist needs to know. That's the magic prescription that policy makers will follow. If you want to be a celebrity economist, you preach more spending.

I was a professional economist for years, although I never completed my PhD.

Blogger Desiderius December 11, 2015 9:34 AM  

"Political effects of immigration aside (which are considerable), Krugman seems to no longer be capable of the slightest bit of dispassionate analysis"

Yes, no longer. What was the mysterious event that led to his loss of capability?

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2010/03/01/the-deflationist

The man is more henpecked than Ralph Kramden.

Blogger Scott X December 11, 2015 9:44 AM  

OT: There is a battle royale brewing over at Cuckservative site:

http://cdrsalamander.blogspot.com/

Apparantly, the good commander is a bit of a Cuck...

At least I got in a plug for Vox's newest book.

Blogger VD December 11, 2015 9:50 AM  

What's wrong with describing some of the anti-immigrant rhetoric of Stormfronters and even some Trumpeteers as "ugliness?"

Because it's not. A nation without an invasion of foreigners is a beautiful thing. Mass migration is ugly. Most of the migrants are, by American and European standards, ugly. The whole mess is ugly, not the cleanup.

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 December 11, 2015 9:50 AM  

Anyone seen David Frum's article in The Atlantic? Wow. Holy shit. That's the kind of article that would go a long way to swaying people like me.

Blogger Cataline Sergius December 11, 2015 9:54 AM  

...mobilizing their resentment via dog whistles...

The third law of SJWs is definitely and definitively in play here.

SJWs Always Project.

Dog Whistles are how they communicate their more unpalatable notions with each other.

Remember whenever a lefty says something about us that has us scratching our heads and going WTF is he talking about? Projection is in play every time.

Anonymous BigGaySteve December 11, 2015 9:57 AM  

UKIP, among others, are actually drawing more heavily from the Socialists, the Democrats, and Labour than they are from the center-right parties

Isn't the BNP's slogan "if your daughter gets gang raped by sand niggers we won't ignore it"?

Otherwise he might note that the Democratic Party engages in dog whistling (as he calls it) openly when it courts the black

The dems wont do anything for blacks unless the dead can no longer vote. Voter ID would make their votes at least 10x as valuable.

Dog whistles are hidden messages beneath the text that only "the party dogs* can hear.

Since golf is now considered dog whistling, does that mean leftists hear "we went out beating midget niggers" when I say "we went out miniature golfing"?

Its ugliness is due to its being anti-immigrANT rhetoric rather than anti-immiGRATION rhetoric

If bath House Barry spent 1/9th the effort keeping an MS-13 gangbanger out of the US as he did a Cambridge graduate that speaks 5 languages who is married to a US marine veteran, immigrANTS wouldn't have such a bad name.

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 December 11, 2015 10:01 AM  

@34

It's not golf that's racist, it's criticizing Obama for playing golf that's racist. So "President Obama played golf instead of going to his terrorism briefing today" gets translated as "Republicans are racist for criticizing a black president today", but "President Obama sank 3 holes in 1 today!" gets translated as "Obama sends a thrill up my leg!"

Anonymous old man in a villa December 11, 2015 10:05 AM  

The rules of the current power elite go something like this-

Democracy is sacrosanct until the majority decides to pick someone who is not with the program, then it is "fill-in-the-blank" and cannot be tolerated at which point the will of the people shall be declared null and void by Presidential edict or judicial decree.

Settled law applies only to the things the current power elite prefer, everything else is up for change or alteration, at which point it will then become settled law.

It is always wrong to single out, vilify as a group, or show prejudice or bigotry to anyone, or any classification of people ever at any time unless that person or group opposes the diktats of the power elite. At that point they may be marginalized, ridiculed, excluded, disenfranchised, ostracized, banned from employment or degraded shamelessly to whatever extent is necessary until they relent to the original premise.

Have I missed anything?

Anonymous 334 December 11, 2015 10:16 AM  

@31. Just read it now. Thanks, Leo.

Frum was on the wrong side of the Obama conspiracy theories, some of which are surely valid. He was on the wrong side of Obamacare and remains on the wrong side of gun control. He was on the right side of the same-sex marriage debate until switching in 2011.

Which is to say I trust him as far as I could throw him. "Cuckservative" seems too kind a term.

I would have expected full-throated support from Frum for higher levels of immigration, frankly. The fact that he's even asking the question of whether immigration is good for America is a complete surprise.

Anonymous BigGaySteve December 11, 2015 10:17 AM  

What "austerity" is he talking about? Europe is spending tens of billions of euros giving free food, free housing, free medical care

Some European nations still have a pay as you go tax plan, instead of transferring debt to grandchildren. In Switzerland a single refugee squatmonster eats up 1/3 of the taxes a village of 1000+ productive white people, leaching ~$60,000US Dollars a month. That shows that to support a 3rdworlder without much pain to the populace it has to be less than 1 3rdworld to 333+ whites.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2758055/Outraged-Swiss-village-1-000-residents-forced-raise-taxes-African-refugee-mother-seven-moves-costs-40-000-month-benefits.html

That said; the point is that he's right on this one issue.

To paraphrase JC Wright's recent lesson on China's point deer/make horse "8 Point buck deer, make doe"

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 December 11, 2015 10:19 AM  

@36

He's even approaching it from the correct perspective: he's asking how much of our immigration policy is driven by guilt over 1930s Jews rather than any rational assessment. I usually put Frum into the liberal category, but that article? Amazing. I think it's going to shift a lot of fence-sitters in the right direction.

I still don't like him, but my hat's off to Donald Trump. He has done more to shift the Overton Window than any one person in at least 20 years.

Blogger dc.sunsets December 11, 2015 10:20 AM  

@21
There's a very logical and widely ignored difference between the kind of immigrants you got 50-plus years ago before the advent of a widespread, indiscriminate dole (The Great Welfare State) and now, when showing up stupid, useless and hungry earns you tens of thousands of dollars per year of OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY.

Blogger JaimeInTexas December 11, 2015 10:28 AM  

@13

"anti-immiGRATION"

I guess I am dense because I do not understand the shy capitalize "GRATION."

To join the party: anti-immigRATion.

Blogger Scott X December 11, 2015 10:28 AM  

dc sunsets:

Excellent point. What everybody forgets is that 80 years ago immigrants that failed went back home. They didn't hang around and collect cash from the Federal Government. Why does everyone assume that every immigrant that came to the US stayed in the US?

Blogger Cecil Henry December 11, 2015 10:35 AM  

To ignore immigration (or immigrants- the distinction is one of semantics and 'respectable conservatives') is just a blatant example of the liberal determination to ignore race.

NOT that race doesnt exist. But that White people don't exist, and have no racial interests and don't matter. So there is NO White Genocide because there are NO Whites!!

Its that easy!!! The indifference to THE issue just shows that the anti-white hatred they hold towards Whites.

But of course they can't admit directly.

Race is not a social construct, but 'racism' certain is a social construct.

The White Liberal is the ultimate poison. Envious of OTHER Whites, he would destroy them to build up his pride.

But never admit it. That's the ugly reality.

Blogger bob k. mando December 11, 2015 10:35 AM  

VD
Immigration is a cross-spectrum issue



gosh. it's almost like my assertion that the number of axes that can be used for political orientation are manifold and multiplex ... might just have a real world application.



22. Dr. J December 11, 2015 9:13 AM
Krugman's analysis of the GOP here is so lucid, pointed and correct that I find it hard to believe he actually wrote it.
...
He returns to form with the asinine austerity statement, though.



also as i've pointed out before, these people know perfectly well what the truth is.

they HAVE too.

otherwise, they wouldn't know which subjects they need to avoid and which subjects they need to misrepresent ( lie about ) or which direction they need to be misrepresented.

and there is always a consistent valence to their misrepresentation ...



23. buzzardist December 11, 2015 9:16 AM
It's all he knows.



wrong. it's ALL HE WANTS TO SAY. which is an entirely different thing.


look at it this way. back in the day, the circus would advertise by having a carnival barker stand out at the street, extolling the virtues of the various exhibits and shows to the rubes.

it didn't matter if the bearded lady had a pasted on mustache, it didn't matter that the strong man was lifting paper mache weights, all that matters was that his line of bullshit would pack in the rubes.

Krugman is the barker. and in Krugman's mind, you're the rube.

Blogger Nate December 11, 2015 10:42 AM  

"Everything else is akin to worrying about the details of French pension payments when the Wehrmacht is blitzkrieging past the Maginot Line."

I can't believe some aspie hasn't tried to correct this. Maybe things are improving.

Blogger Artisanal Toad December 11, 2015 10:42 AM  

@26

Your assumption is immigrants are poor because that's the observable reality of our immigration policies. Why not have an immigration policy with a bias in favor of individuals who can afford a McMansion?

I've been to several countries that had a clearly stated policy for residency (which can lead to citizenship) that involved being able to prove you could speak the language, had an education and either a high-demand skill or a very healthy bank account.

On housing, you're right, once they're here they have to live somewhere. Then comes the problem that they tend to congregate in groups and keep their own culture with them. It's not easy for a Venezuelan to immigrate to the US, but look at Weston, Florida. So many Venezuelans live in Weston they call it "Westonzuela" but the immigrants tended to be white, they came here wealthy or they got here and worked like hell. Weston is a beautiful city. Let's compare that to your apartment building which offers low cost housing.

The problem comes with the concentration of poor people by the low-cost housing subsidized by the welfare state. Racial indicators are easily observed in the crime data and it is absurd to believe concentrating the people with the most violent tendencies is going to work out well. As soon as a certain percentage of blacks appear the crime goes up and whites move out for safer areas. That opens up low-cost housing units and more blacks move in and soon the whites are gone. Public housing projects are the prime example here and it's a systemic failure, but let's not limit it to something that small. Ferguson, Missouri is a good example.

If you add "black/brown Muslim immigrant" to that mix, it's a recipe for disaster.

The flip-side of your argument is the people on the other side of town shouldn't be allowed to force the low-cost housing on an area if the people who live nearby don't want it. It isn't that we don't have apartment buildings being built, it's that the low-cost housing is being used as a weapon by a politically more powerful group against a weaker one, just as immigration is being used as a policy weapon by the elites. If you recognize it for what it is, an attack, the solution is clear.

Blogger Nate December 11, 2015 10:43 AM  

"What's wrong with describing some of the anti-immigrant rhetoric of Stormfronters and even some Trumpeteers as "ugliness?""

2+2 doesn't stop being 4 just because the person who did the math is an asshole.

That's the thing about truth. Its true. Even if it is coming from undesirables.

Blogger Sevron December 11, 2015 10:48 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Sevron December 11, 2015 10:49 AM  

2+2 doesn't stop being 4 just because the person who did the math is an asshole.

I'm stealing this.

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 December 11, 2015 10:52 AM  

@45

I'm making no assumptions about the economic status of immigrants. I was illustrating how I came to understand an issue, not making direct comparisons to people. Poor people of any nationality are negatively affected by zoning laws that restrict high-density housing, or just land-use restrictions in general, because it increases the market price of land and therefore housing. Even if the US had closed borders, such laws would still negatively affect the poor people that we do have.

My hometown, for example, has been closing down trailer parks in the last few years; most of the people who lived there were white. They were negatively affected by that all the same.

My explanation would be better illustrated by looking at New York state. Most of the political power is concentrated in NYC, and most of the people who live upcountry get ignored in state politics. Which is one reason for the backlash against the SAFE act and the fracking ban; lots of upstate New Yorkers live very different lives from the people in NYC, and they benefit from having rifles and fracking in their rural and suburban neighborhoods in ways that urban NYCers can't comprehend. And yet the rich elites in NYC get to effect laws in the rest of the state.

So while a fracking ban in NYC would have been okay, not so for the entire state.



My point is that if you don't live near to the area where a high-density apartment complex is going up, you shouldn't have any say in whether it does or not. You should have to prove that it affects you personally before you can object. But if you can prove it, then obviously you should have a say.

So the majority of people in the US are not affected by any particular act of immigration, lawful or unlawful, regardless of the character of the immigrants in question. But the people who live where these immigrants are planning to settle, however, are so affected, and so deserve a say. And since this can't be done on a piecemeal basis, this forms a rational basis for immigration restrictions.

Anonymous Quartermaster December 11, 2015 10:54 AM  

@20
I wonder how he would handle a silver thaw. I was out of school for a week in the early 60s in Oregon when 18” of snow was flowed by freezing rain. 18” of snow capped by 1.5” of ice was great for us kids, but hell on adults trying to get stuff done.

@29
Which thread is the battle royal under?

@36
The “Little Frummer Boy” (Taki’s label) is simply a tool. He might stumble, once in a while, into doing the right thing, but that’s going to be as rare as chicken’s teeth.

Blogger praetorian December 11, 2015 11:00 AM  

What's wrong with describing some of the anti-immigrant rhetoric of Stormfronters and even some Trumpeteers as "ugliness?" Its ugliness is due to its being anti-immigrANT rhetoric rather than anti-immiGRATION rhetoric.

The Left never describes BLM calls for white genocide ugliness. They stay on message and don't concede any rhetorical ground, and that's why they win.

What's the female equivalent of a cuck? Whatever that is, don't be that Irene.

Blogger Gaiseric December 11, 2015 11:03 AM  

I can't believe some aspie hasn't tried to correct this. Maybe things are improving.

That's right. Blitzkrieg is a noun, not a verb!

OpenID paworldandtimes December 11, 2015 11:16 AM  

Most of the migrants are, by American and European standards, ugly.

Amen.

PA

Blogger bob k. mando December 11, 2015 11:18 AM  

46. Nate December 11, 2015 10:43 AM
2+2 doesn't stop being 4 just because the person who did the math is a Natespeeler.


t,ftfy.

Anonymous A Visitor December 11, 2015 11:21 AM  

It's like something they had on Fox the other day, a Tom Brokaw documentary on Trump's plan to temporarily suspend non-citizen Muslim integration. I asked, "Why do we care?" Same thing with Krugman, "Why do I care what you think? You're becoming more irrelevant by the day."

@20 Never heard of a Chinook before. Interesting!

@21 No offense intended to your grandmother but if you ask others in the Spanish speaking world, Nicaraguans for example, they'll say Mexicans don't know how to speak Spanish. English may be a disgusting language but it's our disgusting language, heh (to paraphrase Ike).

@45 "I've been to several countries that had a clearly stated policy for residency (which can lead to citizenship) that involved being able to prove you could speak the language, had an education and either a high-demand skill or a very healthy bank account. "

When I studied in Spain for a semester in undergrad, to get a visa, I had to prove I had sufficient funds (and that was an American citizen, too). State sovereignty, it's a ****, heh!

@46 "That's the thing about truth. Its true. Even if it is coming from undesirables." Like these undesirables?

Anonymous Anonymous December 11, 2015 11:28 AM  

Here's the thing, and I'm only going to say this once: They want to come here, because they weren't here before. If they had already been here, they wouldn't want to come here. You can only fuck up a place so much before you need a new place to fuck up.

Anonymous BGS December 11, 2015 11:29 AM  

2+2 doesn't stop being 4 just because the person who did the math is an asshole.

It does in Common Core if you don't show your work. Leftists don't believe in equality because if they did, common core would teach math like japan/Germany not Haiti.

LeoPoor people of any nationality are negatively affected by zoning laws that restrict high-density

Zoning laws are the only thing left that protects the value of most American's largest ""investment"" their home. Its bad enough you can spend 30 years paying off a mortgage, but your house will drop in value by 20% if blacks move into a section 8 house within a mile. If Asians and white people can not plan ahead like that there is no incentive to create civilization. People that want to avoid black crime try to live on an acre or more. Lets say you lived on 5 acres and all your neighbors lived on 5 acres, if your windows are closed they wont hear you having sex, or smell your curry/marijuana and get along with you better.

My point is that if you don't live near to the area where a high-density apartment complex is going up, you shouldn't have any say

So if ghouls in Dearborn MI want to be able to legally toss gays off rooftops, I shouldn't have any say?

So the majority of people in the US are not affected by any particular act of immigration, lawful or unlawful

If the majority of women in Rotherham UK have not been raped by 3rd world moslems, does the 1700+ little white girls gang raped by 3rd world moslems while Labour made cops ignore it matter?

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 December 11, 2015 11:38 AM  

@57

Apparently you adopted the SJW tactic of "skim until offended".

Blogger Nate December 11, 2015 11:46 AM  

"My point is that if you don't live near to the area where a high-density apartment complex is going up, you shouldn't have any say in whether it does or not. You should have to prove that it affects you personally before you can object. But if you can prove it, then obviously you should have a say."

I think you should take a hard look at the logic beneath this statement... separate it and reapply it to a different issue and then see if you think it still holds up.

You'll realize it does not.

Blogger Nate December 11, 2015 11:47 AM  

"Apparently you adopted the SJW tactic of "skim until offended"."

no.

He's pointing out that limits on government power don't change based on geography.

Blogger VD December 11, 2015 11:51 AM  

I would have expected full-throated support from Frum for higher levels of immigration, frankly. The fact that he's even asking the question of whether immigration is good for America is a complete surprise.

Read my interview with him. This is a serious change in direction for him.

Blogger Artisanal Toad December 11, 2015 11:54 AM  

@49
Poor people of any nationality are negatively affected by zoning laws that restrict high-density housing, or just land-use restrictions in general, because it increases the market price of land and therefore housing.

Yes, this is a form of self defense called economic segregation and it's the direct result of policies that prevent natural segregation that results from the freedom of association. This is also the immigration argument at the local level because to say one cannot have a home owners covenant that restricts ownership to a particular race is the same thing as saying we cannot have an immigration policy that is race-restrictive. We reach the same conclusion, I just don't agree with your next point:

So the majority of people in the US are not affected by any particular act of immigration, lawful or unlawful, regardless of the character of the immigrants in question.

How does a declining economy caused in part by large-scale immigration that has depressed labor markets not affect everyone? If you're being subjected to a death by a thousand cuts, any particular cut doesn't matter but you're dying all the same.

Anonymous The other robot December 11, 2015 11:58 AM  

Everything else is akin to worrying about the details of French pension payments when the Wehrmacht is blitzkrieging past the Maginot Line.

Appropriate analogy.

I have come to the conclusion that the Esquimaux throw up a fog of less less serious issues for people to worry about so that they will not settle on and deal with the most important issue.

Anonymous Argus Bacchus December 11, 2015 12:04 PM  

@18

All true. Not to mention military protection on the dime of the U.S. taxpayer.

Anonymous That Would Be Telling December 11, 2015 12:13 PM  

Beslan Alert, which if it ever happens would most certainly result in a "massive shift in American politics":

San Bernardino shooters planned bigger attack, investigators believe

...

Images of San Bernardino-area schools were found on a cellphone belonging to Farook, according to a law enforcement source. But the source cautioned that Farook may have had a legitimate reason to have the images because his work as a county health inspector involved checking on school dining facilities.

Blogger Sherrie December 11, 2015 12:36 PM  

Some of this comes down to the r/K thing. As Ks, we recognize the long-term effects of this stuff, whether it's unbridled third-world immigration or Section-8 housing in a nice neighborhood.

As Ks, it doesn't HAVE to impact us personally for us to fight. That's what rabbits don't get. We're not always fighting for us. Sometimes, we're fighting for our grand-children, even if they're not yet born.

Blogger CM December 11, 2015 12:39 PM  

He's pointing out that limits on government power don't change based on geography.

See... i thought she made a great argument for de-centralized government.

Blogger J Melcher December 11, 2015 12:46 PM  

Vox writes for _The Atlantic_ now?

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/12/refugees/419976/

Blogger J Melcher December 11, 2015 12:47 PM  

Vox writes for _The Atlantic_ now?

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/12/refugees/419976/

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 December 11, 2015 12:52 PM  

@62

And if you had read my next sentence, I said But the people who live where these immigrants are planning to settle, however, are so affected, and so deserve a say. And since this can't be done on a piecemeal basis, this forms a rational basis for immigration restrictions.

You can't have a piecemeal immigration policy for a nation; I concede that without argument. And while immigrants coming in through New York don't directly affect people in Florida, they do affect people in New York. And yes, they will eventually affect people in Florida. Freedom of travel within the US guarantees that everywhere will eventually be affected, because each immigrant has to live somewhere, and they won't all choose to live in the same place.

So immigration policy has to be set by the federal government, since anyone who is physically here can't be restricted to one locale. This is how I got to "the nation is our house, and we can decide who comes in and who doesn't" despite my misgivings over its similarities to zoning laws.

Blogger CM December 11, 2015 1:03 PM  

Vox writes for _The Atlantic_ now?

That site is weird. It was horrid in the 2000s with bias, but lately it keeps putting together some amazing liberal-policy investigative pieces that are scorching...

- War Against Boys

That's the one I best remember, but there were a couple others. Its almost like one of the Ilk is doing a reverse entry into an SJW-weakened business...

Blogger Dave December 11, 2015 1:10 PM  

@Nate I can't believe some aspie hasn't tried to correct this. Maybe things are improving.

Amen brother, and only one Overton Window reference.

Leo & Chinook winds; I would've paid money to see the local's faces when Leo was spouting his nonsense. Celebrities will forever confuse their fame with IQ.

Blogger Desiderius December 11, 2015 1:12 PM  

"It was horrid in the 2000s with bias"

Mike Kelly's death in Iraq hit them hard.

Blogger Sherrie December 11, 2015 1:13 PM  

Its almost like one of the Ilk is doing a reverse entry into an SJW-weakened business...
A potential reason for this: The establishment voices are the liberal ones now. They're old and and corrupt, like a wrinkled hippie with a social disease.

I'm a romance novelist. And I'll tell you something. What used to sell 20 years ago isn't selling today.

Blogger John Wright December 11, 2015 1:21 PM  

Hard money politics are causing the left's problems?

Did the EU return to the gold standard without telling me?

I used to think it was odd that Darth Barak would blame the hapless GW Bush for the economic woes of the neverending depression five and six years after the fact.

Is Paul Krugman actually blaming the monetary policy of the Hoover administration? Of Andrew Jackson?

Jackson may have been a rough customer and wrong about everything else, but, by Pluto, he was right about the pernicious effect of a central bank on the liberty and wealth of the common man!

Blogger Dave December 11, 2015 1:24 PM  

We could use some Andrew Jacksons' right about now.

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 December 11, 2015 1:28 PM  

@75

I've never looked at his specific complaints about the BUS, but from what I understand the BUS was not particularly similar to the FRB. That said, both the critics of the BUS and of the FRB were correct when they said that even if the two had been set up to pursue actual economic goals, they would both be quickly twisted to support political agendas. And they clearly were.

It would be pretty badass to have a President who had won a few duels in his life, though.

Anonymous DNW December 11, 2015 1:40 PM  


He of the slender hands and simpering manner, that is to say Krugman, the bearded lady of the New York Times is quoted as saying:

"Even admirers and supporters of the European project (like me) have to admit that it has never had deep popular support or a lot of democratic legitimacy. It is, instead, an elite project sold largely on the claim that there is no alternative, that it is the path of wisdom."

This is a remarkable admission which epitomizes the actual liberal view of "democracy".

Anonymous BigGaySteve December 11, 2015 1:46 PM  

Leo Apparently you adopted the SJW tactic of "skim until offended".

Zoning laws and open borders are the hills libertarians die on. Peoples houses are a large portion of what is considered by some to be their "wealth", but like a fishing boat it is actually a financial liability. I oppose gays being tossed off buildings in MI for the same reason I oppose laws about not parking in a driveway facing out as firemen/emts do in FL, or needing a permit for a flowerbed in Portland, because that would make me a Michael Vic if I traveled there. Mike Vic didn't go to jail because he was black or for dog fighting, but because he grew up in an area that cops who showed up at dog fights came to bet, and he thought it was legal to do, & that cops were just harassing him.

I might not personally be negatively affected by ERs closing along the border, well I used to be a healthcare traveler so those are places I could have worked at, but when an illegal squats out a preemie that had no prenatal care, that is one of the most expensive medical issues in existence picked up by every taxpayer. Every taxpayer feels the bite of Somali HIV+ moslems being on the high side of the $2.000-$5,000 in AIDS Meds a month hiv patient take because they are non-compliant=stupid.

San Bernardino shooters planned bigger attack, investigators believe

Good thing they got "triggered" by people eating free ham, think of the damage he could have done if he had 1/2 a brain and access to schools food supplies. Luckily they will attack leftist areas with gun control, and lack of death penalty.

And while immigrants coming in through New York don't directly affect people in Florida,

Lewiston Maine didn't get any direct refusegees, what they did have was a good safety net, with good benefits because hardly any white people needed it. Once blacks get a section 8 voucher they can use it anywhere. Look at this story of some blacks that have not worked in 5 generations who travel up and down the east coast for months looking for the best sect 8 apartment, even the gay Hispanic RN that tells everyone how much he earns when he first meets them couldn't afford to spend 3 months doing nothing but looking at houses.

http://isteve.blogspot.com/2011/06/from-blue-state-to-red-state-via.html

Anonymous BGS December 11, 2015 2:00 PM  

And while immigrants coming in through New York don't directly affect people in Florida,

From that Steve Sailor article:
"A housing counselor ended the briefing by handing out a list of Zip codes.


“These are areas with better amenities, more jobs, better schools,” she said, encouraging people to scout them.

Jackson received a folder with her voucher, a prized possession that people spend years on waiting lists to acquire. Jackson`s was $1,032, possibly more if utilities were included or if she found a place in a pricier Zip code. Her contribution was about $200 a month…."


"Jackson had planned the move for months, perusing rentals on Section 8 Web sites that offer everything from chic new condominiums in Miami to four-bedrooms in Phoenix, Las Vegas and Atlanta. Jackson decided on Charlotte, where she could get more square footage for her family, which included Sheena, Sheena`s 5-year-old son, Shamahrie, and her two dogs, Coco Chanel and Mamacita."


“I want to be around all this fresh air,” said Evelyn Lifsey, who was moving from a Staten Island public housing project. “My moving truck is on standby.”


Blogger John Wright December 11, 2015 2:03 PM  

@77

Agree or disagree about Andrew Jackson, he was pure K-selected. A mensch. This is the advice his dying mother gave him on her deathbed:

"“Andrew, if I should not see you again, I wish you to remember and treasure up some things I have already said to you: in this world you will have to make your own way. To do that you must have friends. You can make friends by being honest, and you can keep them by being steadfast. You must keep in mind that friends worth having will in the long run expect as much from you as they give to you. To forget an obligation or be ungrateful for a kindness is a base crime-not merely a fault or a sin, but an actual crime. Men guilty of it sooner or later must suffer the penalty. In personal conduct be always polite but never obsequious. None will respect you more than you respect yourself. Avoid quarrels as long as you can without yielding to imposition. But sustain your manhood always. Never bring a suit in law for assault and battery or for defamation. The law affords no remedy for such outrages that can satisfy the feelings of a true man. Never wound the feelings of others. Never brook wanton outrage upon your own feelings. If you ever have to vindicate your feelings or defend your honor, do it calmly. If angry at first, wait until your wrath cools before you proceed.”

Got that? NEVER BRING A SUIT IN LAW FOR BATTERY OR DEFAMATION. Shoot the bastard instead with a shooting iron.

As a lawyer, we are actually instructed in our code of ethics (no one believes this, because most lawyers do the opposite) to advise potential clients not to bring lawsuits if the matter is frivolous, or can be settled amicably, out of court.

Well, I wanted to use Mrs. Jackson's advice for my character Meany Monstrose in a book of mine, but I had no space to put it in. I did put in a scene where he settles his defamation suit out of court, by pistols at dawn.

Jackson! Even if you hate him, you gotta love him. Unlike a modern Democrat, he, at least, was an American.

Blogger Groot December 11, 2015 2:16 PM  

@18. Big Bill:
"In other news, a Muslim man was found guilty of burning a 17 year old Finnish girl to death for breaking up with him"

From the article:
"Finland’s immigration service made an announcement stating that neither murdering nor raping in Finland would block a migrant’s chances of being granted asylum."

Olla kaikki muumit laaksossa.

Blogger OneWingedShark December 11, 2015 2:56 PM  

@57 "Zoning laws are the only thing left that protects the value of most American's largest ""investment"" their home."

I'm sorry to say, but you're woefully misinformed -- according to Kelo v. New London all you need is a "urban-renewal project whose stated purpose is a vague promise of new jobs and increased tax revenue" to take someone's home and give it to a private development firm.

Blogger Danby December 11, 2015 3:11 PM  

@bob
I can't believe some aspie hasn't tried to correct this. Maybe things are improving.

Oh, dear God, I was tempted....

Blogger Danby December 11, 2015 3:26 PM  

It would be pretty badass to have a President who had won a few duels in his life, though.

It's not exactly a duel, but as a torpedo bomber pilot, GHW Bush went mano-a-mano against the Imperial Japanese Navy, and gave better than he got.
I never liked the man, but there is no doubt that he had big brass ones.

Blogger Joe Katzman December 11, 2015 3:31 PM  

@74 Sherry: "I'm a romance novelist. And I'll tell you something. What used to sell 20 years ago isn't selling today."

Most interesting comment in the thread, because this is where some pretty fundamental things play out in people's psyches.

I'd love to hear about the differences, and what sells now. I think it may be important information.

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 December 11, 2015 3:54 PM  

@79 @80

It would have really served you both well if you read the sentence after that. I went on to point out that it does affect the people of New York, and will eventually affect the people of Florida, because immigrants will move around.

I wasn't arguing for or against immigration. I was explaining how I differentiated immigration law from zoning law.

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 December 11, 2015 3:55 PM  

@83

43 states (IIRC) subsequently passed laws or constitutional amendments against such ED takings. So it's not the immediate problem it was in 2005 anymore.

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 December 11, 2015 4:02 PM  

@79 @80

Specifically I was trying to explain how I came to accept the "our nation is our home, and we set the rules for entry", given my own opposition to zoning laws.

I'm not against land-use restrictions as such; it would absolutely be wrong for someone to open a landfill in a populated area, for example, and the locals ought to be able to stop it. The reason they can stop it is because the landfill affects them. In fact, they can prove that it directly harms them personally and their property. But if you live upwind, and 50 miles away, it shouldn't matter to you and you shouldn't have a say in where that landfill goes.

Anonymous Lolbertarian December 11, 2015 4:33 PM  

Krugman is a case study in tree identification whilst forest missing. He has been consistently able to identify the current economic and political situations affecting the world, as well as being one of the few economists to sense the creeping decline facing Western civilization, yet he has never been able to face the causal pattern of that decline, though it should be increasingly obvious with each new article or book he writes.

Consider "The World is Flat". The book was one of the first, accessible, well researched discussions of the present and future effects of globalization. It correctly identified that there were both the micro and macro considerations involved in understanding the economic effects of globalization, that technology would increase both informational and physical transference of persons and ideas around the world, and more or less correctly identified the internal labor and political conditions that were incentivizing the internationalization of business and finance from the West to emerging markets. Hilariously, knowing all that, he fails to consider the negative repercussions of this trend, the velocity that diminishing returns might overtake the cost savings of outsourcing, and, most egregiously, the inevitability of cultural clash in this new epoch.

After the recession hit, Krugman was correct in believing that the recovery was weaker than it appeared, but ironically attributed the malady to insufficient aggressiveness from central bankers, policy makers, and other unelected market makers. Krugman was correct in identifying unchecked economic activity as an increasingly important public health issue, but downright excuses China for directly polluting municipal air and water supplies, while raging against Western nations for the impropriety of refusing to switch all commercial activity to bicycle power.

Krugman is like a man who inhabits the eye of a storm, in a similar sense to the inhabitants of Plato's famous Cave. Krugman, perfectly surrounded by the storm, can see the ruins at his feet, the ongoing destruction ahead of him, and the as yet unmolested territories further still, but as he knows no other existence he cannot conceive of nature of the storm itself. The storm is a manifestation of the progressivist-globalist-keynesian ideological worldview, which in its application spreads chaos and ruin. Krugman, believing those ideas valid and right, walks lock step with the storm, correctly projecting doom but so incorrectly attributing it that he is able to hold his position, never buffeted by so much as a breeze whilst he picks his way through the gale torn wreckage of once great societies and institutions, believing they might have been saved if only they had endured what had destroyed them.

Here he is again, that weary nomad, extolling the praises of the European Project for its "free movement of people, open borders" and post-nationalist ideology, lamenting its shortcomings as an elite driven, irresponsible, and corrupt mess. Does he really not recognize that the very elements of the project that draw him in are the direct progenitors of its most grave weaknesses? A man such as this would professes to love a fire whilst bemoaning the unpleasant heat that permeates it.

Blogger Krul December 11, 2015 4:46 PM  

@90 - "The World is Flat"

If you're referring to this "The World is Flat", it was written by Thomas Friedman, not Krugman.

Blogger Sherrie December 11, 2015 5:16 PM  

I'm a romance novelist. And I'll tell you something. What used to sell 20 years ago isn't selling today."

From #83: Most interesting comment in the thread, because this is where some pretty fundamental things play out in people's psyches. I'd love to hear about the differences, and what sells now.

The answer boils down to one word – alpha. Twenty years ago, the men were mostly beta. But today, the men in top-selling romances are masculine men, not just bigger, hairier women.

In spite of what New York publishers keep pushing, today's top-selling contemporary books feature guys who fight. They're protective. They don't shirk from vigilante justice. They might screw a promiscuous girl, but they'd never marry her. They'd kill if they had to, and they wouldn’t cry about it later.

My books, which target Gen-X and Gen-Y, would've never been published traditionally. Why? Because the gate-keepers are in New York. The elites like different things (beta males, social justice, conflicted men who cry at snowflakes). It's similar, IMO, to how reporters in D.C. simply don't "get" mainstream America. And they're losing audiences because of it.

I sell a lot of books, and I think it's partly because I'm in front of the Fourth-turning trend while most mainstream publishers are way behind it. They're still pushing books with narrower gender differences. Meanwhile, authors like me are outselling them with books where gender differences are much greater.

Anonymous Lolbertarian December 11, 2015 5:17 PM  

@91 Apologies! I meant to reference The Return of Depression Economics. Similar concepts, similar terminology, etc.

Blogger Joshua Sinistar December 11, 2015 5:36 PM  

Does this guy Nobel Prize Winny Economic Witch Doctor remind anyone of Mr. Howell from Gilligan's Island. Like every other member of his racial background he seems to see everything in the World in Economic Terms. It reminds me of Thurston Howell III offering thousand dollar bills to savages and then finding they don't care about money. This is all you need to know about the Brave New World they want. All their money will buy them after the World goes Mad Max and the food runs out is a quick trip into the Cannibals' Pot. It doesn't end with them living like Kings. They are Soylent Green.

Anonymous Kevin December 11, 2015 6:11 PM  

Its always austerity with Krugman. They are going bankrupt with such "austerity". What nonsense. By his measure when the budget increases by less than he wants we are living in the tough low government times of austerity.

Blogger VD December 11, 2015 6:17 PM  

My books, which target Gen-X and Gen-Y, would've never been published traditionally. Why? Because the gate-keepers are in New York. The elites like different things (beta males, social justice, conflicted men who cry at snowflakes). It's similar, IMO, to how reporters in D.C. simply don't "get" mainstream America. And they're losing audiences because of it.

Fascinating data point. Thanks for sharing that. It also indicates why Tor and the other mainstream SF/F houses are going downhill.

Anonymous Kevin December 11, 2015 6:24 PM  

And I should add since I add it everywhere - Trump is a buffoon and would be a horrible president. I would consider staying home rather than voting for him. He is completely ignorant about most policy things and when you read his actual policy positions they are pretty close to Rubio and Jeb. That being said, he does deserve gratitude for shifting the Overton window on immigration.

Blogger bob k. mando December 11, 2015 6:40 PM  

88. White Knight Leo #0368 December 11, 2015 3:55 PM
43 states (IIRC) subsequently passed laws or constitutional amendments against such ED takings. So it's not the immediate problem it was in 2005 anymore.



otoh, it was never Constitutional in the first place.

a fitting punishment would have been for all of the Supremes who voted for confiscation of private property in order to give to another private entity to have had all of their own property Eminent Domained in exactly this fashion.

and then impeach the sorry fucks and bar them from ever holding public office again.


84. Danby December 11, 2015 3:11 PM
@bob
I can't believe some aspie hasn't tried to correct this. Maybe things are improving.

Oh, dear God, I was tempted....



you're trying to drag me into this, aren't you?




92. Sherrie December 11, 2015 5:16 PM
I'm a romance novelist. And I'll tell you something. What used to sell 20 years ago isn't selling today."
...
The answer boils down to one word – alpha. Twenty years ago, the men were mostly beta. But today, the men in top-selling romances are masculine men, not just bigger, hairier women.

In spite of what New York publishers keep pushing, today's top-selling contemporary books feature guys who fight.
...
My books, which target Gen-X and Gen-Y, would've never been published traditionally. Why? Because the gate-keepers are in New York.
...
They're still pushing books with narrower gender differences. Meanwhile, authors like me are outselling them with books where gender differences are much greater.



here's the question though:
was the 'success' of the beta pansy boy heroes ~20 years ago an artifact of market preference?

or an artifact of lack of distribution channels for portrayals of hard ass Alphas?


because i can tell you with an absolute certainty that i don't buy 1/50th of the Science Fiction / Fantasy that i used too. and it's because the kind of Skiffy i like is pretty much not to be found on the shelf any more.

Blogger Joshua Sinistar December 11, 2015 7:02 PM  

Kevin you ignorant slut. Class is relative. I suppose if this was the turn of the 20th Century when the rich were WASPS like the Vanderbilts, that trump would seem declasse and gauche for conspicuous consumption and flashing his wealth like Nouveau Riche, but the WASPs aren't there anymore. The Rich aren't humble they're cheap. They're penny pinching skinflints who hire nannies from Guatemala to watch their kids.
When you see the last three POTUS were Clinton and Arkansas Hillbilly raised by a single mom in a trailer park, W the latest shrub in the Bush League who had problems with pronunciation, and Obama a clown from parts unknown who had an autobiography that said he spent all the time in college smoking pot and avoiding class, I have to wonder how Trump isn't up to these unbelieveably low standards.
Sure he puts his name on properties he owns, but you probably watch Turner TV stations, or Bloomberg TV, read Forbes magazine and eat salads with Paul Newman dressing. What is unusual about this now?

Blogger Groot December 11, 2015 7:02 PM  

@90. Lolbertarian:
"tree identification whilst forest missing"

As the only tree around here, I am the forest (though not the Forrest).

Blogger Sherrie December 11, 2015 7:07 PM  

Here's the question though: Was the 'success' of the beta pansy boy heroes ~20 years ago an artifact of market preference?
Yes. I think it was. Twenty years ago, the target market consisted of Silent and Baby Boomer women, who found beta men to be "enlightened" and "sensitive." Now, the issue is two-fold:
(1) Times have changed. Younger women don't fantasize about guys who will hold their hand and cry during sad movies. They fantasize about strong, protective men with their own codes of honor.

(2) Publishers aren't changing with the times. Some of this, I think, relates to generational influence. When it comes down to it, Boomer "prophets" are still in charge. They, being such a large group, seized the reins of pop-culture early, and are unwilling to let go. Plus, I think the gap between the elites and the rest of us has grown so wide that they just don't see it.

Blogger Sherrie December 11, 2015 7:19 PM  

It also indicates why Tor and the other mainstream SF/F houses are going downhill.
Interesting. I don't read a ton of SF/F, but I do think the trends don't favor traditional publishers, whether we're talking books, newspapers, or whatever.

They're too isolated from the real world and have an over-inflated view of their own tastes and influence.

Blogger Joshua Sinistar December 11, 2015 7:40 PM  

The problem with popular culture and old media is they have removed the mask and gone totally message and propaganda. These idiots whined for years how they didn't want to be preached to by Conservatives and Christians, and then went right ahead and became so preachy its too obvious and offends people. Even minorities themselves are getting tired of the blatant "inclusion" of minorities everywhere. When you see the Beeb or BBC making stories and TV shows about olde England with blacks there, its just bizarre and jarring. They went Full Retard. Never go Full Retard.

Blogger Unknown December 11, 2015 8:06 PM  

@97 ``... Trump is a buffoon and would be a horrible president.'' That might be true. However, he is not implacably anti-American, nor even a deliberate traitor. That puts him lightyears ahead of all the other candidates and living ex-presidents.

I'll take a horrible president over our current or recent models any day.

Anonymous JRL December 11, 2015 8:46 PM  

According to one commenter, when trump wins the NH primary, it will be the sound of white people rioting at the ballot box. That's good rhetoric.

Blogger Irene W December 11, 2015 9:02 PM  

Man, this is going to be a long comment, I'm really, really sorry guys, but just in case any of you expected a reply....("the rules" require them for noobs, I think?)

@21 Thomas Davidsmeier: Very nicely done. Not ugly.

@24 Yes, inbred by the grace of gawd: "Cherokee people, Cherokee tri-ibe..."

@30 Vox Day: NOT UGLY: "Syrian humanitarian crisis? Yes, tragic, but absent sufficient robustness of counterterrorism, cybersecurity & Critical Infrastructure Protection Program, there's a limit to what we do to help."

UGLY: "Syrian humanitarian crisis? Where are the humans? I just see ragheads."

BEAUTIFUL and FUN: gaming "cleanup" in which anyone appearing as a threat (not to mention silly SJW's) is dispatched with lots of blood and gore.

NOT SO MUCH: actual genocide.

@33
@46
@51
@54 to be continued, if my schedule and your patience allows. Merry Rx-mas.

Blogger Joe Katzman December 11, 2015 10:49 PM  

Sheerie @92 @102, those were great. About 5 key trends wrapped up in there. I hope you do unreasonably well while selling women fantasies of true masculinity.

Say, Dark Lord, does Spacebunny want to run a new division of Castalia? >:->

Blogger The CronoLink December 11, 2015 10:58 PM  

"That’s probably why one recent study found a consistent historical relationship between financial crises and the rise of right-wing extremism"

Is Krugman and the study confusing right-wing with nationalism? Seems to me like they're trying to bring images of the Nazi rise to power, but we know the Nazi are left-wing.

Blogger Feather Blade December 12, 2015 12:34 AM  

@107 does Spacebunny want to run a new division of Castalia? >:->

Why on earth would you want anyone to encourage women to read porn?

Blogger Irene W December 12, 2015 1:09 AM  

@106 ...(continued)

@106 @24 inbred ---> half-bred

@33 BGS
"Bath-house Barry" : Cambridge-educated polyglot and US Marine vet spouse

::

"The Donald" : Oxford-educated world-class (albeit, Druze) human rights lawyer and spouse, Soggy Bottom Boy

@40 JaimeInTexas. No not dense. I do not know what is "shy capitalization."
cf. hate the sin, not the sinNER

@51 Preaetorian:
What's the female equivalent of a cuck? Whatever that is, don't be that Irene.
A coquette? K, pinky promise, won't be. Just watch me not be:
YOU: "BLM calls for white genocide
ME: Dayum, dat's ugly.


@54 @46 nate of bb not a noob. is funnie!

Anonymous Forrest Bishop December 12, 2015 1:20 AM  

@100. Groot

@90. Lolbertarian:
"tree identification whilst forest missing"


As the only tree around here, I am the forest (though not the Forrest).

And he thought I wouldn't notice.

Groot, your exercise for today is to derive i = qc from the first principles of electromagnetic theory, where

i = electric current
q = net line charge per unit length
c = speed of light

If that's out of your area of expertise, no problem: see if you can find someone- a professor, EE engr, Nobel Laureate, anybody- who can do that derivation. I promise you will be amazed at what you discover.

Blogger Irene W December 12, 2015 1:44 AM  

@106 @33 @106 And yes, turns out ol' Soggy Bottom Boy is a Vet in real life.

Blogger Irene W December 12, 2015 2:06 AM  

@112 no, that's a different soggy bottom boy, irene
@113 @112 o. sorry.

Blogger John Wright December 12, 2015 2:40 AM  

@74

"I'm a romance novelist. And I'll tell you something. What used to sell 20 years ago isn't selling today."

Very interesting! I am hoping the same is true for fantasy stories. I am writing a book which is a juvenile version of EL CID, by which I mean, the story is about honor and honesty, loyalty and duty, and kicking ass, something I have not seen in a juvenile since Heinlein's STARSHIP TROOPERS.

I hope the tastes in sciffy have changed also. There must be a reason why Larry Correia is sleeping in a dry swimming pool filled with twenties?

(Maybe because his books are awesome on steroids? And readers are sick of limp wimpification? That would be my guess.)

Anonymous Forrest Bishop December 12, 2015 2:55 AM  

@81. John Wright December 11, 2015 2:03 PM

@77
Agree or disagree about Andrew Jackson, he was pure K-selected. A mensch. This is the advice his dying mother gave him on her deathbed:

"Andrew, if I should not see you again, I wish you to remember and treasure ..."

Got that? NEVER BRING A SUIT IN LAW FOR BATTERY OR DEFAMATION. Shoot the bastard instead with a shooting iron.


That one got copy-paste-saved. I'll trade you one from my father, the lawyer and son of the lawyer: "Never break more than one law at a time." Best legal advice I ever did got.

Blogger tz December 12, 2015 3:24 AM  

http://contrakrugman.com/
I'll have to wait until next week, meanwhile
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/12/11/muslim-migrant-rapes-us-woman-while-chanting-allahu-akbar-local-media-give-platform-to-rapist-family/

Blogger Groot December 12, 2015 4:33 AM  

Larry Kudlow: I’ve Changed. This Is War. Seal the Borders. Stop the Visas.

From one of the smartest, most principled, most once(?) drug-addled, and most articulate guys I admire. The Overton Window epistemically reorders itself, in an epically unexpected healthy manner.

Choose any two (with my emphatically preferred choices):

☑ Freedom of Religion, with religions that actually ☪☮℮✡☥☯✝
☐ Unlimited immigration, with no discrimination against Muslims, and tolerance for sharia, multiple wives, marriage to 8-year-olds, etc.
☑ Assimilation and adherence to Constitutional principles

Blogger Groot December 12, 2015 4:36 AM  

And a hat-tip to Trump and Vox. What fun!

Blogger Were-Puppy December 12, 2015 9:34 AM  

@82 Groot

From the article:
"Finland’s immigration service made an announcement stating that neither murdering nor raping in Finland would block a migrant’s chances of being granted asylum."

---

That sounds like an outright declaration of war against the native population.

Blogger SciVo December 13, 2015 2:51 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger SciVo December 13, 2015 3:08 AM  

It's amazing how he can be so right about the failures of the "elites" while failing to recognize the other half, which is that the populists are correct.

Blogger SciVo December 13, 2015 3:35 AM  

CM @71:

There's also A Social Media Mistake Is No Reason to Be Fired.

Blogger SciVo December 13, 2015 3:46 AM  

bob k. mando @43: gosh. it's almost like my assertion that the number of axes that can be used for political orientation are manifold and multiplex ... might just have a real world application.

Don't be a dick. I agree with you and have tried to convince people of the manifest multi-dimensionality of our politics to no effect, so please be nice when someone agrees.

Anonymous Discard December 13, 2015 5:54 AM  

Maybe eight or ten years ago, American Renaissance posted an article titled, "The Rush for the Lifeboats". The idea was that, at some point, when the Lies of State could no longer be sustained, there would be a mad dash to not be the last idiot declaring for racial equality. If David Frum is changing his views on immigration it's likely that he wants only to ensure a place in the lifeboat. Never ascribe to mature reflection what can be credited to weaselly cowardice.

Blogger Joshua Sinistar December 13, 2015 4:42 PM  

These idiots don't believe their own bullshit. Egalitarians have made a false equivalence between equal under the law, to outright equal outcomes. When they lower standards for blacks or the people of color, this is a tacit admission of their basic inborn inferiority. They would scream indignantly if you lowered the standards for their own children openly, because it would cause them shame to admit they can't make it or live up to it on their own. This is not meant to benefit them, it is meant to hurt us. No more and no less.

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