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Tuesday, December 08, 2015

Muslim immigration ban is constitutional

Furthermore, there is even precedent for it:
Is an immigration ban on Muslims unconstitutional? Probably not. The Supreme Court has held consistently, for more than a century, that constitutional protections that normally benefit Americans and people on American territory do not apply when Congress decides who to admit and who to exclude as immigrants or other entrants. This is called the plenary power doctrine. The Court has repeatedly turned away challenges to immigration statutes and executive actions on grounds that they discriminate on the basis of race, national origin, and political belief, and that they deprive foreign nationals of due process protections. While the Court has not ruled on religious discrimination, it has also never given the slightest indication that religion would be exempt from the general rule.

There is even precedent for Trump’s plan. In 1891, Congress passed a statute that made inadmissable people who practice polygamy (directed, at the time, at Mormons), and in 1907 extended this ban to people who “who admit their belief in the practice of polygamy.” While Congress later repealed the latter provision (the former seems to be still on the books), no court–as far I know–ruled it unconstitutional.
Plenary power doctrine. Shove that in the face of every cuckservative who blathers ignorantly about the unconstitutionality of Trump's proposed policy. There is more than a century of precedent demonstrating otherwise. Anyone who says a religious immigration ban is unconstitutional is either ignorant or lying.

Furthermore, the Federalist Papers make it clear that the several States have the ability to pass religious bans as well. And in a MSNBC poll, 92 percent of Americans 18-24 said Trump is not going too far in his proposal to ban all Muslim immigration.

After all, they're the ones who would have to live with them.

Labels: ,

205 Comments:

1 – 200 of 205 Newer› Newest»
Anonymous Soga December 08, 2015 5:45 PM  

How are you so well-read, Vox, and remember all of it? I wish I had that superpower.

Anonymous Leonidas December 08, 2015 5:47 PM  

There's very little in the constitution as written in the text that directly applies to non-citizens - even if they're currently on US soil. The fact that we extend the rights of citizens to non-citizens is noble - and before we started doing it, it was extremely rare historically.

But when it's causing direct impact to the safety and security of people who are citizens, it's time to remember that generosity can be revoked. We don't have any obligation to extend our rights to others, and they don't have any right to expect it from us.

Anonymous Godfrey December 08, 2015 5:51 PM  

Suddenly the cuckservatives find that the Constitution matters and is relevant.

Blogger The Gray Man December 08, 2015 6:00 PM  

The states were always allowed to have a ban on religion until the First Amendment was forced on the states through the 14th Amendment. I think this should be overturned but that is the rule right now.

Blogger Nate December 08, 2015 6:01 PM  

immigration is not the only thing that matters.

As soon as Trump said he would seriously look at taking away the ability of people on the watch lists to buy firearms... he joined Ben Carson in the dumpster fire.

Don't care.

Trump can blow me.

Anonymous Adam1 December 08, 2015 6:02 PM  

It seems that as the days go by that I hear more and more people talking about the same things posted here on V.P. Just last week I heard a morning dj use the tern `social justice warrior`.

Blogger Geoff December 08, 2015 6:06 PM  

In what must be an attempt to maintain its status as SWJ Central, a Toronto City councillor wants to remove the "Trump" name from the Trump Tower.


Anonymous Scintan December 08, 2015 6:08 PM  

There was also the Chinese exclusion act.

Blogger Rek. December 08, 2015 6:12 PM  

92% ... Trump is winning on so many levels. I am buying a Trump 2016 sweater and wearing it in Brussels. Game related, since i am playing that demographic, i havent met one single girl who has reacted negatively to my white supremacist flirting. Not one. Even that one communist chick who is banging some mud was all cool with the fact that i am the only dude who shows some balls. "Do u like white babies?". The other day i approached a group of 5-6 girls and one BETA dude and about 2min in i was like "we can talk freely we are amongst whites". The girls were liking it, BETA was acting BETA. Heh

Anonymous Wyrd December 08, 2015 6:12 PM  

immigration is not the only thing that matters.

Shut up, Nate. You and Josh cuck it up when it comes to Trump.

Anonymous Scintan December 08, 2015 6:16 PM  

As soon as Trump said he would seriously look at taking away the ability of people on the watch lists to buy firearms... he joined Ben Carson in the dumpster fire.

Looking at it is fine, as long as the look results in a firm decision not to try it. It wouldn't be Constitutional anyway, but I don't trust the 9 robed monkeys to get that right.

Blogger IM2L844 December 08, 2015 6:21 PM  

How are you so well-read, Vox, and remember all of it? I wish I had that superpower.

Obviously, he's a Time Lord.

Blogger Josh December 08, 2015 6:22 PM  

Shut up, Nate. You and Josh cuck it up when it comes to Trump.

He's quoting Vox, retard.

Blogger Positive Dennis December 08, 2015 6:26 PM  

But the constitution is a living tree that grows and bends with the times and means whatever 5 old farts says it means.

Anonymous Wyrd December 08, 2015 6:26 PM  

He's quoting Vox, retard.

No, he isn't, idjit.

Anonymous WillBest December 08, 2015 6:27 PM  

It doesn't matter that it is legal. There has been more outrage over trumps comment than over the fact that some Jhadi and bride killed a bunch of people.

This country is toast.


Anonymous Godfrey December 08, 2015 6:27 PM  

Trump is popular for one reason. The masses HATE the oligarchs. Anyone who spits in the eye of the oligarchy and their minions (e.g. SJWs, MSM, etc.) is going to be very popular indeed. Our host is a perfect example.

Blogger Josh December 08, 2015 6:28 PM  

Vox on Carson, from November:

he is absolutely wrong on both immigration and guns, the only two issues that matter.

Anonymous Fran December 08, 2015 6:35 PM  

That's good too but my usual response is.."Oh NOW you're worried about the constitution!"

Anonymous Wyrd December 08, 2015 6:35 PM  

Vox on Carson, from November:

he is absolutely wrong on both immigration and guns, the only two issues that matter.


Sweet Christ, you are stupid.

Blogger Tasta Orelletes December 08, 2015 6:39 PM  

The future will be so very different from all those 20th century assumptions. Marty McFly might very well find a Victorian Era with electronic gadgets, who had seen that one coming?

Blogger Salt December 08, 2015 6:40 PM  

Just deny all Muslims entry under the War Powers Act and deport all non-citizens. Obama has said we are at war with ISIS, the declared head of the Caliphate to which all Muslims must submit.

Blogger OneWingedShark December 08, 2015 6:45 PM  

@5 "As soon as Trump said he would seriously look at taking away the ability of people on the watch lists to buy firearms... he joined Ben Carson in the dumpster fire."

This is perhaps one of two ways to get the no-fly lists revoked -- the other would involve prosecuting all members of all agencies violating the Constitution: the BATFE (for violating the 2nd), the NSA (for violating the 4th), the the tax-courts (for violating the 6th), the divorce courts (for violating the 7th), etc.

And that's not even considering abolishing non-constitutionally sanctioned/commissioned federal agencies -- there's only a few that have that legitimacy; essentially anything that's not: Army, Navy, Post Office, the IRS (sadly the 16th Amd.), the DOT and maybe the Coast Guard (Congress does legitimately have say over import/export esp. WRT tariffs).

Blogger Josh December 08, 2015 6:53 PM  

Sweet Christ, you are stupid.

And you're an anti gun cuck.

Blogger The Other Robot December 08, 2015 6:56 PM  

There has been more outrage over trumps comment than over the fact that some Jhadi and bride killed a bunch of people.

That's because of all the traitors in the media ...

Blogger IM2L844 December 08, 2015 6:58 PM  

Just deny all Muslims entry under the War Powers Act and deport all non-citizens.

But a quote on a placard in the base of the mother of all participation trophies supersedes the constitution. Duh.

Blogger Nate December 08, 2015 7:04 PM  

Yes... because Molon Labe is totally a cuck position.

using the word cuck on someone like me is about as a effective as using the word nigger on Milo.

Blogger ncartist December 08, 2015 7:07 PM  

Obama has said we are at war with ISIS, the declared head of the Caliphate to which all Muslims must submit.

No, He is not at war with ISIS: "Obama hires former hamas terrorist as his isis advisor."

Anonymous Roundtine December 08, 2015 7:09 PM  

"In 1891, Congress passed a statute that made inadmissable people who practice polygamy (directed, at the time, at Mormons), and in 1907 extended this ban to people who “who admit their belief in the practice of polygamy.” So just pass the statute again, and Muslims are banned again.

OpenID basementhomebrewer December 08, 2015 7:12 PM  

The tentacles of the establishment are all now being exposed. All of them are in full freak out mode and are running straight to a camera to declare themselves to be traitors. Make a list of all of them and remember it when they start talking about national security. Paul Ryan is by far the most shameful example thus far.

Anonymous tublecane December 08, 2015 7:21 PM  

@22-The War Powers Resolution has nothing to do with what you're talking about, and would in fact work against your argument on the basis of Obama already being way over the deadline for Congress signing onto his war (though for all I know they're piggybacking on an old, anti-Al Queda resolution). You probably mean to invoke the vague notion of war powers, which we might as well lump in with the rest of the emergency powers presidents and fedguv in general are fond of invoking. Why not? They are "plenary.

One problem is we're not actually at war with all of Islam (good thing, too), but since when did war powers had to make sense? We weren't actually going to be invaded by Japan when FDR moved all the Japanese inland, and the morale potentially affected by the sitting congressmen Lincoln exiled was none of Lincoln's business, really. And I'm pretty sure both actions are still lawful. Korematsu was never overturned, certainly.

Blogger VD December 08, 2015 7:22 PM  

This country is toast.

We don't harbor defeatists here. Go away.

As soon as Trump said he would seriously look at taking away the ability of people on the watch lists to buy firearms... he joined Ben Carson in the dumpster fire.

There is an order of magnitude difference in their positions. You know perfectly well Trump isn't interested in disarming Americans, he's focused on Muslim immigrants who should never have been permitted to enter in the first place arming for jihad.

Should he be more careful when he talks about guns? Sure, but he's Trump.

Blogger Josh December 08, 2015 7:22 PM  

We weren't actually going to be invaded by Japan when FDR moved all the Japanese inland,

SHUT

UP

Blogger VD December 08, 2015 7:25 PM  

And you're an anti gun cuck.

Just stop talking about Trump, Josh. We already know what you're going to say, you're just being quarrelsome now. It's tedious.

The man is moving singlehandedly moving the Overton window on immigration and you're stupidly snapping at his ankles. It's just blitheringly stupid, regardless of what you think of him.

Blogger VD December 08, 2015 7:27 PM  

We weren't actually going to be invaded by Japan when FDR moved all the Japanese inland

It's funny that you say that, see, because I just read a book that makes it very clear that not only did the Japanese have no intention of invading the USA, the government had no intention of fighting a war at all. Basically, everyone was putting up a brave public front and expecting that SOMEONE would step in and prevent them from doing anything so obviously stupid, but no one did.

They knew they would lose within three years. Their only hope was that maybe if they bloodied the US nose, the US would decide to leave them alone. Needless to say, that didn't work very well.

Blogger praetorian December 08, 2015 7:28 PM  

Trump can blow me.

Reporter: What do you think about Nate's latest comments, Mr. Trump?

Trump: Well I love Nate, he's great blogger, very high energy. Very high energy. Can't wait for the next ATF show, will definitely consider him for a position in my administration. Very good blogger. Next question?

Blogger VD December 08, 2015 7:29 PM  

This country is toast.

Also, the country was toast nearly 30 years ago. The nation remains. The nation will survive. The country is not the nation.

Blogger Nate December 08, 2015 7:38 PM  

" You know perfectly well Trump isn't interested in disarming Americans, he's focused on Muslim immigrants who should never have been permitted to enter in the first place arming for jihad."

No... actually mate I don't know that at all. In fact I am deeply skeptical about his position on firearms. He's a yankee corporatist from New York. He's been largely anti-gun his whole life. There is no reason for him to connect with the gun culture at all.

So no... when I see him do well on guns for a few months... then come out with a very dumb statement on guns... I am not particularly interested in cutting him a lot of slack.

People who've been good on guns for decades get slack in these matters.

People like Trump don't.

I am not saying I think it will cost him much. As I've said, and as people in this thread continue to demonstrate... it doesn't matter what he says to his supporters. Whatever he says... excuses will be made for him.

Truth be told I was ready to consider voting for the man up until several ours ago... just out of spite for the establishment.

Blogger Nate December 08, 2015 7:40 PM  

"
It's funny that you say that, see, because I just read a book that makes it very clear that not only did the Japanese have no intention of invading the USA, the government had no intention of fighting a war at all."

its odd to me that the famous quote about a rifle behind every blade of grass is so widely known... yet people still think Japan wanted to invade.

bizarre.

Blogger ScuzzaMan December 08, 2015 7:42 PM  

Well Nate, that's thing with a reactionary demagogue, he's going to be reactionary. The price of Trump closing the border and purging the alien will be his other repressive impulses.

It doesn't really matter if you agree that immigration trumps all else - a reaction is coming and all that signifies is coming with it.

Anonymous bw December 08, 2015 7:44 PM  

the country was toast nearly 30 years ago

Foundations, 1913.
Then Jewish Communist implementations by FDR.
Every thing since, to include 1948 National "security" Act...Ovah.

Blogger Dave December 08, 2015 7:47 PM  

OT Vox, anything going on with 4GW Handbook brainstorm?

Any chance you & Red Eagle consider an open brainstorm on Cuckservative ?

Blogger Nate December 08, 2015 7:47 PM  

"It doesn't really matter if you agree that immigration trumps all else - a reaction is coming and all that signifies is coming with it. "

I agree.

and given the nature of those reactions... I will prefer to see the people as armed as possible. If the ultras get their hands on things... we will need to be.

Anonymous farmer Tom December 08, 2015 7:48 PM  

Well, I've wondered how long till Vox went full slappy for Trump.

Happened today I guess.

Trump is a troll of the highest order. Following his own strategy as laid out in "The Art of the Deal"

Blogger Antonio From Spain December 08, 2015 7:58 PM  

@38 Nate "In fact I am deeply skeptical about his position on firearms."

Has Trump ever explained what happened to change his ideas about guns?

Anonymous BGS December 08, 2015 7:59 PM  

Don't care.--Trump can blow me.

If anyone can do arbitrage better than Scalzi its Trump.

Blogger ray December 08, 2015 8:00 PM  

"Plenary power doctrine."


See? You give arrows to injuns and there's what happens.

Blogger ScuzzaMan December 08, 2015 8:00 PM  

Nate,

Agreed.

Blogger VD December 08, 2015 8:03 PM  

I've wondered how long till Vox went full slappy for Trump.

You're more likely to vote for him than I am. Seriously do you guys not understand the idea of people being useful even if you don't agree with them or support them?

No wonder you always get your asses kicked. If you ran Britain during WWII, you'd refuse to talk to the Soviets and turn down American assistance because they don't support the monarchy. Even the Left isn't so stupid that they refuse all aid from anyone who isn't in perfect harmony with them.

Blogger ScuzzaMan December 08, 2015 8:03 PM  

farmer Tom,

Can I recommend an elementary course in logic?

Blogger VD December 08, 2015 8:06 PM  

I am not particularly interested in cutting him a lot of slack.

I cannot state how completely indifferent I am to anything Donald Trump actually believes or intends to do. Whatever it is, in the unlikely event he actually becomes president, will be no worse than what we have already seen over the last six presidential terms.

Anonymous BrerFox December 08, 2015 8:06 PM  

My favorite part about this so far has been the Democrat establishment using the word "disqualified" to refer to Trump. So predictable. This has also sent the cucks scrambling like roaches in the light.

Blogger VD December 08, 2015 8:07 PM  

Vox, anything going on with 4GW Handbook brainstorm?

I will get on that. Hopefully this month.

Any chance you & Red Eagle consider an open brainstorm on Cuckservative ?

We plan to do one. Probably in January. Still trying to get one more book out this year....

Blogger Billy December 08, 2015 8:08 PM  

Serious Question. Are Nate and Josh the same person.

Blogger Antonio From Spain December 08, 2015 8:13 PM  

@51 Vox "in the unlikely event he actually becomes president"

What do you think will take him from forerunner to not president? Media attrition or something more expedient?

Blogger Joel #0164 December 08, 2015 8:20 PM  

@54 Serious Question. Are Nate and Josh the same person.

Josh is Nate's sockpuppet account.

Blogger Nate December 08, 2015 8:21 PM  

"Whatever it is, in the unlikely event he actually becomes president, will be no worse than what we have already seen over the last six presidential terms."

I don't disagree with that statement at all.

I would add a corollary. He's also unlikely to do anything significantly better.

Anonymous The other robot December 08, 2015 8:22 PM  

What do you think will take him from forerunner to not president? Media attrition or something more expedient?

The Lone Gunmen come to mind. So too do the Israeli Tourists.

Blogger Nate December 08, 2015 8:23 PM  

The best thing to come out of the Trump campaign, may be a unified honest to God nationalist movement.

Maybe Trump isn't the guy to lead it... Maybe its some other guy that shows up later.

Whatever. We need a true Nationalist Party.

We don't have one. We don't even have a conservative party.

Anonymous The other robot December 08, 2015 8:26 PM  

Of course, Trump is claiming that 68% of his supporters would support him as not a Cuckserative (Republican) but he needs to time that carefully.

If he is registered in various states as a Republican he might find it hard to then claim he is an Independent. The GOPe might screw him then.

Anonymous Wyrd December 08, 2015 8:27 PM  

I see Josh and Nate continue to be the Rosencrantz and Guildenstern of this site. How humorous.

Blogger Were-Puppy December 08, 2015 8:28 PM  

@54 Billy

Serious Question. Are Nate and Josh the same person.
---

LOL I used to wonder that myself.

Blogger Nate December 08, 2015 8:29 PM  

" Even the Left isn't so stupid that they refuse all aid from anyone who isn't in perfect harmony with them."

This?

From the guy that spent 15 years slamming pragmatists? Ok honestly I appreciate that you're at least walking back your Trumpsterisms. You're the only one I've seen do so. But you yourself created the name of the tactic you're now employing.

With that... I'm out. I've said my piece.

Blogger Blackburn #0040 December 08, 2015 8:30 PM  

Speaking of Cucks...

Thought y'all might get a kick out of this.

Blogger Dave December 08, 2015 8:32 PM  

What do you think will take him from forerunner to not president? Media attrition or something more expedient?

First he has to win the Republican nomination which is an uphill battle against the establishment in the party. The party apparatus is already maneuvering to deny him the necessary delegates. See Ron Paul vs Romney last election.

Secondly, if he wins the nomination he still faces the Democratic candidate who will have the full support of the mainstream media and the cuckservatives.

Thirdly, 11 months is a lifetime in presidential elections. He must not make any major blunders in that time and anything could derail his candidacy. Say it turns out he's having an affair with his illegal alien housekeeper and fathered three illegitimate children. He's toast.

Blogger haus frau December 08, 2015 8:32 PM  

Matt Walsh put out another exaspirated screed about Trump's popularity.

"So I want you to consider everything Trump has said just in the last day. Going under reported is the fact that Trump suggested we "close up that internet" to stop terrorists. He said he'd talk to Bill Gates (?) about "closing the internet" and then called anyone who mentioned the First Amendment "fools."

Next, as you heard, he proposed that we ban all Muslims from the country. Now, despite what he claims today, the fact is that Trump initially applied this to Muslim CITIZENS as well. Last night when his campaign was asked whether Muslims citizens traveling abroad would be banned from returning home, his campaign confirmed it. This morning, he has clarified the clarification by claiming he never claimed that. This is, of course, what Trump does. He says 5 or 6 different outlandish and conflicting things, waits for the dust to settle, and sticks with whatever version his fans embraced. Then he lies and pretends he never said the other versions.

Anyway, so I think you know how I feel about the guy. Here's my question for you. Does this help conservatism? Do you imagine the conservative movement is advanced when the front running "conservative" candidate talks about closing the internet and flirts with the idea of banning Muslim citizens from the country?"

Other than his obvious need for an editor to pair down his verbage, Matt is normally such a good guy for the social conservative side. I wonder if he really thinks we can just vote our way out of this or if he truly doesn't see the pragmatic angle to pushing a man like Trump for people who know full well Trump is not a libertarian or a conservative.

Anonymous farmer Tom December 08, 2015 8:34 PM  

This place is really going down hill in a hurry.

The host is now full on Trump supporter.

The vast majority of the guests seem to be so uninformed as to not know who Nate is?

I guess it's time to find somewhere else to hang out.

I liked the place when "The Yellow Bus" was new.

Some things have changed, and not for the better.

Blogger Dave December 08, 2015 8:35 PM  

Still trying to get one more book out this year....

You're a maniac. I'm hoping for Rolf's sequel.

Anonymous American Spartan December 08, 2015 8:43 PM  

Josh, you call others Anti Gun Cucks yet you work against a man who will stop mass immigration, who if he does not get elected will result in tens of millions of marxist welfare voters that will make Congress a one party entity and work to vote away our gun rights..

Blogger VD December 08, 2015 8:44 PM  

What do you think will take him from forerunner to not president? Media attrition or something more expedient?

Republican establishment-imposed rules.

From the guy that spent 15 years slamming pragmatists?

In the context of the traditional two-party American political system, yes. Those days are over.

Anonymous A Visitor December 08, 2015 8:45 PM  

I don't watch O' Reilly but the parents do and I had to walk out of the room. The fool they had opposite to Guilfoyle got it wrong, legally speaking.

I heard this one from a Nigerian Roman Catholic priest an hour or so ago too: "You profile or you prepare to die." *mic drop*

Blogger VD December 08, 2015 8:46 PM  

This place is really going down hill in a hurry.

Tell us again how Ben Carson is going to win Iowa, FT. This place hasn't changed. The world has, but you haven't realized it yet. Trump is the only candidate who matters, and it is not because of who he is or what he might do if he wins.

Blogger praetorian December 08, 2015 8:51 PM  

Trump is the only candidate who matters, and it is not because of who he is or what he might do if he wins.

But he isn't perfect Vox, like the train. And the complete sea change in what's acceptable to say in public in America and the absolute 120 proof trolling isn't worth anything if he isn't perfect, like the train.

Unless he is perfect, like the train, I'm just not interested in him.

OpenID Glen December 08, 2015 8:53 PM  

The one thing that really seems to have some slight effect on the CowTower crowd is that there is zero evidence of any Reformation in Islam. Not even a Renaissance Man.

Without Reformation, 1100 years of Islamic precedent are untouched by any Western hopeychangeydom.

Anonymous WillBest December 08, 2015 8:54 PM  

I tend to think there are no skeletons in Trump's closet. Every day he is moving mainstream political opinions further to the right. I can't imagine the elite sitting on anything they could use to destroy him with now and stop the hemorrhaging.

If Trump sees a bump from this latest round I suspect the GOPe will clear the field for their least favored establishment candidate, Cruz. It will be tough for Trump to go 1 on 1 against Cruz.

Cruz could then be destroyed in the general and Hillary will get the nod. If Trump gets to the general he will destroy her. Minorities aren't going to be easily whipped for a uncharismatic legacy hire no matter how much they like her husband. Just hammer on how she created ISIS and the soccer moms will join their husbands 5-1 against her

Blogger Were-Puppy December 08, 2015 8:59 PM  

@73 praetorian

Unless he is perfect, like the train, I'm just not interested in him.
---

No one is perfect. Not even the train. But it is fine.

Blogger The Other Robot December 08, 2015 9:01 PM  

The Trump is fine!

Blogger The Other Robot December 08, 2015 9:02 PM  

Meanwhile, the IMF has taken steps towards a split Financial world.

Anonymous farmer Tom December 08, 2015 9:04 PM  

"Trump is the only candidate who matters, and it is not because of who he is or what he might do if he wins."

Ok, explain it one more time, real slow for us idiots.

Blogger Hammerli280 December 08, 2015 9:04 PM  

This fight is developing into a very interesting litmus test. The real question is whether or not there is a right to enter the United States. Religion is merely one axis of discussion.

Blogger JC December 08, 2015 9:06 PM  

Deportation of American citizens without due process of law is not constitutional. As to closing off the borders. Yes the power is plenary but that power rests with congress. While I'm all for stopping immigration to prevent the decay of the American vote it's very unlikely that a person advocating the criminalization of an ideology is likely to restore the u.s. To any semblance of its original republic or confederate state. I was for trump until this one I could look past the support for welfare and universal health care but this is too much. I know. Cuckservative. I'm willing to encourage someone to ignore the law in light of two centuries of lawlessness. But this isn't Jefferson we are talking about. It's Hamilton. Or is trump anti national bank and pro states rights?

Anonymous Scintan December 08, 2015 9:10 PM  

But he isn't perfect Vox, like the train. And the complete sea change in what's acceptable to say in public in America and the absolute 120 proof trolling isn't worth anything if he isn't perfect, like the train.

Not letting the perfect become the enemy of the good, or even of the not as bad. Is this some new concept?


And the train is, indeed, fine.

Blogger Anthony December 08, 2015 9:10 PM  

There's also the laws which granted special immmigration status to persecuted Jews and Christians in Communist (and some other?) countries. That was discrimination by religion, yet never overturned by the courts.

Blogger Nate December 08, 2015 9:13 PM  

"Not letting the perfect become the enemy of the good, or even of the not as bad. Is this some new concept?"

Better is the enemy of good is the saying you're looking for.

However there are qualifications must be met to attain good.

Being solid on 2A is one of them.

Anonymous Scintan December 08, 2015 9:13 PM  

@81

I was for trump until this one

I don't believe you.

Blogger Hammerli280 December 08, 2015 9:14 PM  

I'll add that the way I see it, the only person who can beat Trump is Cruz...who is equally anathema to the Republican establishment.

Either one mops the floor with Hillary. Trump will be ruder about it.

It's been fascinating, though. Trump is mastering the media. Dominating the news cycle in a way reminiscent of Reagan.

Anonymous Wyrd December 08, 2015 9:15 PM  

"Not letting the perfect become the enemy of the good, or even of the not as bad. Is this some new concept?"

Better is the enemy of good is the saying you're looking for.

However there are qualifications must be met to attain good.

Being solid on 2A is one of them.


The Train is Fine.

Blogger ray December 08, 2015 9:15 PM  

Somebody named Glenn Beck said you people are anti-Americans for wanting immigration stopped. Anti-American, that's a pretty strong charge as AG Lucretia Lynch recently illustrated.

Apparently Glen Beck is an important person. I read about what happened when pudgy important Easterners encountered Comanche and Apache in the wilds.

Give injuns credit at least they realized there was a war path.

Blogger Joshua_D December 08, 2015 9:16 PM  

Farmer Tom would like us all to know that he's leaving. Well, take it easy Farmer Tom.

Anonymous WillBest December 08, 2015 9:20 PM  

I haven't listened to Beck in forever, but I swear his MO was to scare the shit out of you in order to convince you to buy more gold, and lifelock. Scary Muslims would seem right up his alley. Or is he afraid that without regular doses of scary Muslim he won't be able to sell more credit monitoring services, and I presume Fanduel. Cause everybody is selling Fanduel.

Blogger Danby December 08, 2015 9:23 PM  

Say it turns out he's having an affair with his illegal alien housekeeper and fathered three illegitimate children. He's toast.
If that news comes out, he picks 15, maybe 20 points.

Blogger Nate December 08, 2015 9:25 PM  

"The Train is Fine."

Hey sugartits...

When you quote that at me... you should remember that I am the one that first used it here. years ago.

Now little bitch ankle biter... run along.

Blogger SteelPalm December 08, 2015 9:34 PM  

Daniel Greenfield recently wrote an article lending even more support for Trump's proposal, considering none other than SJW hero Jimmy Carter banned Iranian immigrants (and even deported some 15,000 Iranian students) in the wake of the hostage crisis;

http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/261062/carter-banned-iranians-coming-us-during-hostage-daniel-greenfield

Anonymous farmer Tom December 08, 2015 9:41 PM  

Can't see where I said I was leaving. But then I'm the idiot at the party, so I guess I can't read what I wrote.

I said the place was going downhill, and I need to find another place to hang out.

I'm still here, watching the train wreck. But the train is fine, right.

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian December 08, 2015 9:42 PM  

I cannot state how completely indifferent I am to anything Donald Trump actually believes or intends to do. Whatever it is, in the unlikely event he actually becomes president, will be no worse than what we have already seen over the last six presidential terms.

This. THIS.

I believe it was the Deth Guild that said it best (paraphrasing):

F*ck you establishment/oligarchs/etc Trump is a F*ck You, burn it all to the ground.

WTF can't longtime regulars to Vox Popoli not wrap their heads around this.

Do I like Trump and his positions? How the hell would I really know, the man is alsmost a cartoon of himself. But, damn, what the Deth Guild said.

Blogger Antonio From Spain December 08, 2015 9:44 PM  

Rupert Murdoch Defends Trump: ‘Complete Refugee Pause’ Makes Sense. http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/12/08/rupert-murdoch-defends-trump-complete-refugee-pause-makes-sense/

Blogger Nate December 08, 2015 9:47 PM  

"WTF can't longtime regulars to Vox Popoli not wrap their heads around this.'

You've missed the point.

What the Long Time Regulars don't like.. is that this place has turned into its own special Trumpster Safe Space.

Its the polar opposite of everything we helped build it to be.

If we wanted a safe space we'd go to Yale.

This place is supposed to be a fight club. And on most things it is. But Trump? Nope. Not when it comes to Our Lord and Savior Donald Trump. We Dare Not Criticize! Lest we be called cuck.

Fine. You want a safe space? Hey have it.

Just don't expect us not to point and laugh at you.

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian December 08, 2015 9:47 PM  

When the Zombie Constitution is brought back to life, maybe then we can actually discuss "What are his views on these most important issues? How about the NAP? What about the 4th A, 1st A, and 2nd A?"

Bifactional ruling party, Constitution as toilet paper, etc.

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian December 08, 2015 9:49 PM  

@Nate

Trump is a cipher or a black screen to project upon for many.

Who cares.

Let's burn it down.

It will be much more fun under Trump than !JEB! or the Lizard Queen.

Blogger Nate December 08, 2015 9:50 PM  

"When the Zombie Constitution is brought back to life, maybe then we can actually discuss "What are his views on these most important issues? How about the NAP? What about the 4th A, 1st A, and 2nd A?"
"

oh?

we CAN?

but not until then eh?


I can't help but thing of a never ending refrain from Rage Against The Machine... what was it...

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian December 08, 2015 9:50 PM  

blank screen - edit

Blogger ray December 08, 2015 9:50 PM  

#90 -- Yeah mooslims rampaging should sell lots of gold to hoarders. You'd think. Bible says the persians, medes, pay silver and gold no mind. So no help there, they'd just chop off your head, perhaps slow. Hey maybe Glenn Bleck could sell the gold to other hoarders? They could set up a barter system where they traded the suddenly useless (and heavy) stuff back and forth?

I'm afraid to ask what a lifelock is. Whatever it is I am not surprised it's being sold though!

Blogger The Other Robot December 08, 2015 9:50 PM  

Women want equal pay, equal opportunities, but lower entry requirements!

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian December 08, 2015 9:51 PM  

we CAN?

Don't be obtuse, you know its disregarded paper.

Here it is not, but most everywhere else, it is.

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian December 08, 2015 9:54 PM  

What the Long Time Regulars don't like

And I am Long Time regular. You are perhaps the only one regularly posting here that has been here longer than I.

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian December 08, 2015 9:58 PM  

This place is supposed to be a fight club. And on most things it is. But Trump? Nope. Not when it comes to Our Lord and Savior Donald Trump. We Dare Not Criticize! Lest we be called cuck.

I am in full agreement on fight club and critise away.

Not my blog, but I don't reckon' things have changed that much here.

Perhaps I am obtuse and I am missing it. But this has always been full throttle fight fest of the internet.

Blogger Guitar Man December 08, 2015 10:05 PM  

Trumpsters getting triggered by Josh and Nate. And good old Farmer Tom. The ilk is fine.

Anonymous Scintan December 08, 2015 10:05 PM  

It's too bad the Haloscan comments are lost. Immigration posts from the past might have offered some great humor.

Anonymous Discard December 08, 2015 10:09 PM  

If affirmative action is constitutional, so are any racial, ethnic, or religious restrictions on immigration. If they can actively discriminate against White native-born Americans who are wholly innocent of anything but being White men, then any discrimination is OK.

Blogger Curtis December 08, 2015 10:10 PM  

What was amazing, when “Trump’s Muslim” (Tonight it is #TrumpIsDisqualifiedParty) started trending on twitter, was not just the amount of liberals and SJW’s having a hissy fit, but the so called conservatives. What was particularly amusing, was Dick “The Dick” Cheney piping in favor of all the liberals… and the liberals all fawning over Dick, the same Dick who wants to bomb the f**k out of Syria and Iraq, again.

Here is a fact. We want to import Syrian refugees into the US. We know that not all Syrian refugees mean us harm. But, we know that some of them do mean us harm. We also now that we can not for 100 percent certainty vet all Syrian refugees, so some Syrian refugees who mean us harm will get into the US. And despite this, we are going to import Syrian refugees into the US anyways.

The cognitive disconnect.

They know that ISIS or some other flavor of the day Jihadists will piggy-back among the refugees. It is a certainty. Yet, they are going to do it anyways. They then play on the emotions, that not all refugees are terrorists. That they are just poor refugees displaced by war (our war by the way) who need a safe place.

And everyone latches on to that piece of emotionalism.

Now, anyone believe that our government does not see this piece of cognitive dissonance? Of course they see it. Of course they know that ISIS or whatever flavor of the day will get into the US. And of course they know that more Jihad terrorist attacks will happen.

And knowing this… why let a good crisis go to waste. Especially in light of the fact that they know that most Americans are emotional cognitive dissonant mid-wits. Because they know, when those attacks happen, again, they can count on who? Why, those emotional cognitive dissonant mid-wits.

And the cycle just keeps repeating itself. And here we are. Imagine where we will be. Because your fellow Americans are a bunch of… emotional cognitive dissonant mid-wits.

It will never occur to them, gee, maybe if we hadn’t let in all those refugees. They’ll just keep latching on to the feelz good… but not all refugees are bad. Which is besides the point when ISIS and other flavor of the day are piggy-backing on them.

Fact: Your government is using the “poor refugees” to sneak in radical Jihadists. To… soften up those emotional cognitive dissonant mid-wits for more National Security Police State Kabuki Theatre.

Blogger HardReturn¶ December 08, 2015 10:14 PM  

I'd rather not have an imperial presidency, but I won't have that option anytime soon. I'd rather not have a zeitgeist top-heavy with rhetoric, but I won't have that option anytime soon either. Gotta make due with what is.
Trump is entertaining. His off-the-cuff circumlocution larded up with power-word bromides is great rhetoric, and he's good at it. I don't pay very close attention to news anymore; if it's important to me news will find me. I hear folks from various political shades of red and blue jibber-jabber about something he's said, so he's gotta be the focus of telescreen talking heads. And to be the object of their attention, he must primarily be entertaining.

Blogger Curtis December 08, 2015 10:14 PM  

Obama: "We can't put a fence on the border because of carbon emissions."

Carbon emissions bad. Carbon footprints good.

Sigh.

Blogger Danby December 08, 2015 10:15 PM  

@79 farmer Tom
"Trump is the only candidate who matters, and it is not because of who he is or what he might do if he wins."
Ok, explain it one more time, real slow for us idiots.


If Trump were not running, would we, would anyone be discussing not letting in any more Moslems? Sure the pundits and the media have their prepared answer to the idea, but the idea is one that resonate with virtually every goddamn American who doesn't work for .gov, .tv or .org.

That, and that alone is why Trump is the most important person on the American scene. He says what normal Americans are thinking, he can't be shut up, and he never, ever apologizes. Before the week is out, the "moderate" position will be that we should maybe stop immigration from specific countries with no mention of religion. What were the odds of that happening a year ago?

Blogger Alexandros December 08, 2015 10:17 PM  

This is too good; I read this just after suffering through cuckold O'Reilly on cuck news talking about how unconstitutional the incoming muslim ban was.

Blogger Phillip George December 08, 2015 10:27 PM  

Nigerian Roman Catholic priest an hour or so ago too: "You profile or you prepare to die." *mic drop*

today has a winner. Either nation or country it's a demarcation dispute between God and satan. You have to disambiguate the "in God We trust"
"God" needs disambiguation
"We" needs disambiguation.
"Trust" needs expansion.
Platitudes need eradication.

Trust but verify, Trust but keep your powder dry.

Two sides could use Trump as a trojan horse simultaneously. A sock puppet with two hands up it makes for an interesting mental image.

Generations before us could handle calling cannibals savages. They didn't have to refer to them as agrarian lifestyle carnivores who didn't not preclude human sources of protein from their diets. And it wasn't raciss.

discrimination is a synonym of discernment is a virtue. You can lie to yourselves only so long.



Blogger horsewithnonick December 08, 2015 10:38 PM  

If disallowing immigration on the basis of religion is too triggering for Greater Cuckistan, I for one would be willing to offer a compromise:

Stop ALL the immigration. Until further notice.

Blogger Nate December 08, 2015 10:50 PM  

"If Trump were not running, would we, would anyone be discussing not letting in any more Moslems? "

Yes.

In fact Rand said days before Trump did.

Blogger The Other Robot December 08, 2015 10:51 PM  

Worthless idiots in the UK reject Trump for US President.

However, they are irrelevant, since they don't get to vote and no one cares about North GoatFuckistan anyway.

Blogger Daniel December 08, 2015 10:53 PM  

Trump is the perfect candidate: a fake tv star and corporate gamesman who knows precisely the sort of joke taxes and foreigners are.

He's the Batman this country has earned.

Of course he'll flake out when elected/breaking the election machine. He is Vince McMahon. He knows there are things that need to be said that only a villain can say.

The only reason why I will come out of voting retirement is to elect that phony son of a bitch President of the former republic. Clinton-Bush can pound sand.

Blogger The Other Robot December 08, 2015 10:53 PM  

In fact Rand said days before Trump did.

Yeah, but no one listens to the Libertardians.

Blogger tz December 08, 2015 10:54 PM  

Ban Creches.
Ban the Our Father and hail Mary.
Ban the bible and quoting
Ban mention of Jesus, redemption and the Gospel.
Ban "In God we trust".
but in all this no terrorism.
Can't even say Christmas!
And we're the bigots?

CHRISTIANS ARE ALREADY EXILED! BANNED! MUZZLED!
Cold Anger doesn't quite cover it.
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/09/27/cold-anger/

Anonymous BGS December 08, 2015 10:54 PM  

One problem is we're not actually at war with all of Islam (good thing, too),

Moslems are at war with everyone non moslem that they have not subjugated, good to know you are a dimini.

" You know perfectly well Trump isn't interested in disarming Americans,

1/2 of what Trump says are to shake the cages of leftists.

The real question is whether or not there is a right to enter the United States

No especially not moslems imported over persecuted Christians from moslem nations at US taxpayers expense.

Women want equal pay, equal opportunities, but lower entry requirements!

NYC just got its first black female firewatcher only to have her fall in the garage to collect workmans comp after only 10 days. They dropped the written test to let blacks in and gave her a pass on the lowered physical test.

Blogger automatthew December 08, 2015 10:55 PM  

Are Nate and Josh the same person

No.

I've met Nate, and spoken with Josh.

I think they're total 'tards where Trump is concerned, but otherwise they're men I would be honored to die beside.

Blogger Phillip George December 08, 2015 10:57 PM  

Vox, being in Europe you might be able to get this up and running.

The tomb of the unknown secularist. A monument to people who waved the flag and laid down their lives for the greater secular good. They might have been stoned and pissed at a rock concert before being shot three times in the torso and taking 20 minutes to bleed to death while gasping for air.

A monument with gold inlay lettering chiseled in granite for any pissed drugged secularist raped and killed, or shot through and unrecognizable from their remains. The monument could be the place where secularists go and honour their martyred brotherhood and sisterhood and transgenderedhood who died for free borders and inclusion, shot up so as not to appear raciss.

Blogger Daniel December 08, 2015 11:03 PM  

Nate, Rand was irrelevant before Trump was relevant. You aren't arguing that Rand would be doing Trump's rhetoric better if only Trump were not on the scene are you?

It as if no one here has read Aristotle's Rhetoric here...

Rhetoric is more important than dialectic...by a ton...when it comes to persuading an election.

Rand has no rhetoric. None. Doesn't matter if he was demonstratively "righter, sooner." Without rhetoric, Rand couldn't even persuade his own folks to back him.

Rhetoric is the thing in which a nation's conscience is captured, not the dialectic.

Dialectic to demonstrate.

Rhetoric to persuade.

Blogger The Other Robot December 08, 2015 11:06 PM  

Gun buyer and Farook's brother married to Russian sisters.

The Truth is Out There

Blogger Joshua Sinistar December 08, 2015 11:07 PM  

Trump won't get the nod. If there's anything I have faith in besides God is that Lincoln's Party will always do the wrong thing. Even if all the big donor candyasses crash and burn and Trump is running at 80%, they'll cheat him and keep him from winning. I'm hoping they somehow get Baby Shrubbery from Motel Six and his rock troll maid wife into the noose. We need a Good War to clean this up. Let's get this party started.

Anonymous John Carter December 08, 2015 11:15 PM  

"Fine. You want a safe space? Hey have it."

Of all things- don't be passive aggressive.

"This place is supposed to be a fight club. "

Then fight. "You get so turned on when Trump gives you a little game- like a fat sorority chick. You don't care what filthy things he does to you, as long as he slaps you around a little while he does it."

There you go.

"oh? we CAN? but not until then eh?"

I have an ex that used to use this exact same line. Passive aggressive behavior is a terrible habit, especially in a man.

For genuine change, we have to field who we got. Cruz- I hope the GOPe tries to use him on Trump. They're close for opponents, and I believe Cruz hasn't gone after Trump. I think they're looking to the general- Trump is solid, and Cruz is rising as Carson flames out. No one else matters. Time to get serious.

Worst case- VP Trump. Not bad- out on the trail throatpunching, leverage Cruz's experience. "Good team- very energetic!" as the Glorious One might tweet.

Trump isn't perfect. I'm not happy about guns. But he looks to be walking it back. We forget; he's not a GOP insider. I don't think he feels the fundamental importance of guns. If it's an issue: he changes his mind, reminds everyone he carries. Done and over.

Less than a year- he carries all before him, and rewrites presidential debate script. That counts for a lot.

We can't spare this man- he fights.

Blogger The Other Robot December 08, 2015 11:18 PM  

I'm hoping they somehow get Baby Shrubbery from Motel Six and his rock troll maid wife into the noose. We need a Good War to clean this up. Let's get this party started.

Well, we have the brand new Zumwalt and lots of women can enter combat positions now so there will be no lack of cannon fodder.

Blogger The Other Robot December 08, 2015 11:22 PM  

Trump isn't perfect. I'm not happy about guns.

And Cruz is solid on the 2nd?

Blogger Student in Blue December 08, 2015 11:28 PM  

"This place is supposed to be a fight club. "

Then fight.


Hard to fight when Nate throws out names and insults, and never bothers to stick around when someone calls him on it.

I've never seen what I believed was an adult man, triggered so hard before.

Blogger Phillip George December 08, 2015 11:29 PM  

you mean the shooters who died in the back of a remote controlled vehicle with their hands handcuffed behind them? those shooters? perhaps the the drone vehicle had Moscow radio stations tuned into. that would be a smoking gun.

Blogger Samuel Nock December 08, 2015 11:32 PM  

The Constitution is not a suicide pact.

There may well be legal precedent on our side. But the case based on logic is stronger: if you cannot dictate who enters your country, in what way can you consider yourself a country?

Anonymous Virgil Caine December 08, 2015 11:36 PM  

@123 automatthew

I think they're total 'tards where Trump is concerned, but otherwise they're men I would be honored to die beside.

Trump Tardz! Siding with every Yankee leftist and cuck in America.
Strange days.

Blogger automatthew December 08, 2015 11:44 PM  

Trump Tardz! Siding with every Yankee leftist and cuck in America.

That's not even close to what's going on.

Men of principle have trouble adjusting when it's who/whom time.

Blogger praetorian December 08, 2015 11:50 PM  

My safe space is the first class cabin on The Trump Train.

Love the Ilk! Very high energy. Would definitely consider them for positions in my praetorian guard. Just great!

Anonymous johnc December 08, 2015 11:51 PM  

So far this election cycle has been absolutely freaking hilarious.

I intended to totally check out on the campaigns with the usual sense of hopelessness, but Trump has managed to make a complete ass out of everybody out there.

I hope he stays in as long as possible. Even if we don't get what we want, at least it's been an entertaining ride.

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian December 08, 2015 11:52 PM  

I believe this is attributed to Billy Beck:

"We will not be voting our way out of this, ladies and gentlemen. This (election) doesn't matter."

We ain't voting our way out of this.

It don't matta. Nunnadis mattas.

Anonymous Virgil Caine December 08, 2015 11:56 PM  

@135

Men of principle have trouble adjusting when it's who/whom time.

I totally agree. Which is why I added "strange days". God bless 'em both, but the current parameters have rendered their preferred choices untenable. Its no use beating a dead horse for sure, but you sure can beat a sick one a long time. Not nice to do so, however.

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian December 08, 2015 11:58 PM  

@110 And knowing this… why let a good crisis go to waste. Especially in light of the fact that they know that most Americans are emotional cognitive dissonant mid-wits. Because they know, when those attacks happen, again, they can count on who? Why, those emotional cognitive dissonant mid-wits.

And there is perhaps the true grand internationalists plan. The enemy within uses the lever to up the police state more.

Blogger Were-Puppy December 08, 2015 11:58 PM  

@93 SteelPalm

Daniel Greenfield recently wrote an article lending even more support for Trump's proposal, considering none other than SJW hero Jimmy Carter banned Iranian immigrants (and even deported some 15,000 Iranian students) in the wake of the hostage crisis;

---

Obama has taken the crown as the worst president from Jimmy Carter.

Anonymous Wyrd December 09, 2015 12:04 AM  

Now little bitch ankle biter... run along.

Yeah, and you cause global climate change too with your 18" cock.

Anonymous Andrew E. December 09, 2015 12:06 AM  

I don't get the hand wringing over the guns/no fly list thing. Maybe it's because I don't understand exactly what the no fly list is. Who gets on this list? Trump said about a week ago that, regarding the no fly list, if a person is an enemy of state (implying that his understanding, like mine, is that it takes being designated an enemy of state or some such to get on the no fly list) then he would look at it. If you're an enemy of state, along with guns why doesn't the government strip your citizenship and the gun thing becomes moot?

Blogger CM December 09, 2015 12:29 AM  

Maybe it's because I don't understand exactly what the no fly list is. Who gets on this list?

Anyone the gov't deems a terrorist threat (or whatever that means) is put on the list without hearing or any means of challenging the gov't.

Because flying is not considered a "right" but a convenience of privelege, it appears to go uncontested.

But attaching a right to this privelege would be dangerous especially when you consider the difficulty with which our government calls a devout Muslim killing 14 people a terrorist vs. Christians... the TEA Party... the NRA...

Anonymous tublecane December 09, 2015 12:29 AM  

@122-I think you're using a different definition of "at war." Muslims may be at war with the rest of the world in the sense that communists, for instance, were at war with the West during the Cold War (or Cold "War"), or the West was at war with communism during the same period. I don't think they are, but it's arguable. In the real sense of war of which I was speaking, like WWII, we are definitely not at war with Islam.

I say good thing because there're a billion of them. You want to be in a shooting war with a billion people? Remember what happened when we faced a measly million-plus Chinamen in the Korean War? This idea that we're at war with all Muslims, by the way, is belied by the fact that we have so many Muslim allies. Which perhaps you think we shouldn't, but remind me what happened when we started kicking out the supports underneath or simply letting fall formerly friendly countries during the "Arab Spring?" Did that result in more or less enemies? How does something like a war against Islam end? When we run the Middle East and everywhere else in the world they've gone, plus converted them en masse?

I don't care how belligerent is their faith. Please don't commit us to multiple generations and trillions upon trillions of dollars worth of a war we'll at best not loser I'm already beginning to believe I'll never live to see peacetime again, and that's merely because we're fighting the terrorist group du jour.

These clashes of civilization and ideological struggles bore me. We didn't fight a War on Paganism. We had Indian Wars, and fought specific people in specific places, and eventually won. We only won the Cold War by accident and without any idea what to do afterwards, and communism is still here.

Blogger The Other Robot December 09, 2015 12:38 AM  

Heh, the Main Slime Media are playing the old "When they came for the Jews I did not speak out ..." trick.

It's amazing how quickly they trot that out.

Blogger Phillip George December 09, 2015 12:40 AM  

we are definitely not at war with Islam..

you are conflating war with Islam with war with Muslims

of course they are not the same thing.

You are a different "we" to me

We didn't fight a War on Paganism.

generations of good people before you certainly did. albeit their prescient versions of 4G war.

Blogger Were-Puppy December 09, 2015 12:45 AM  

@113 Danby

If Trump were not running, would we, would anyone be discussing not letting in any more Moslems?
---

Nope. We'd probably be talking about Ted Cruz dog on top of his car. Or Rubios binders full of womenz. Or Jebs pal Vicente Fox.

Trump is at least making the conversations about something most of us care about. If the other candidates weren't so boring then maybe they would be more fun. Gotta give it to Carson, he has provided some entertainment too.

Blogger Were-Puppy December 09, 2015 12:47 AM  

@116 horsewithnonick

Stop ALL the immigration. Until further notice.
---

I really hope this is where it is all leading. Stopping rags is great, but only as a first step.

Blogger Were-Puppy December 09, 2015 12:50 AM  

@117 Nate

In fact Rand said days before Trump did.
---

Someone like this needs to get some attention. These other candidates are like the people in back of a room. Nobody is seeing or hearing them.

Blogger Were-Puppy December 09, 2015 12:59 AM  

@130 The Other Robot

And Cruz is solid on the 2nd?
---

I have no idea. I'm suspicious of all of them when it comes to 2A, when we know they will be beholden to donors.

Blogger Were-Puppy December 09, 2015 1:02 AM  

@137 johnc

Even if we don't get what we want, at least it's been an entertaining ride.
---

Oh there is a very long ways to go. Plenty of time for the rise and fall of candidates.

Blogger OneWingedShark December 09, 2015 1:03 AM  

@65 "The party apparatus is already maneuvering to deny him the necessary delegates. See Ron Paul vs Romney last election."

That plainly showed to me that the Republican party is about two things image and power, they are essentially Democrats with different talking-points in that they have zero intention of either opposing or rolling back "democrat policy."

Blogger CM December 09, 2015 1:04 AM  

These other candidates are like the people in back of a room. Nobody is seeing or hearing them.

Wall-flowers.

Rand was/is(?) my #1. (I thought he dropped out?)

But as long as someone saying it has a mic and is being heard, I'm good.

I do wish the others were more vocal, but it still appears they are playing it "safe" with the media. Or did the media just forget there were more than 5 Republican candidates?

Blogger Were-Puppy December 09, 2015 1:05 AM  

@142 Andrew E.

I don't get the hand wringing over the guns/no fly list thing. Maybe it's because I don't understand exactly what the no fly list is. Who gets on this list?
---

Imagine Lois Lerner having a clerical error and all of a sudden, all NRA members are on the no fly list. Or all Christians. We don't have to imagine very much to see how an Obama administration would drool over the opportunities.

Blogger Were-Puppy December 09, 2015 1:10 AM  

How the hell is Rubio staying in the top 4? I never hear a peep out of him.

Blogger OneWingedShark December 09, 2015 1:14 AM  

@75 "If Trump sees a bump from this latest round I suspect the GOPe will clear the field for their least favored establishment candidate, Cruz. It will be tough for Trump to go 1 on 1 against Cruz."

Actually, I think Trump could easily beat Cruz down. All he would have to do is hammer the Natural Born Citizen requirement: the fact is that Cruz was born in Canada to a Cuban father.

Because he was born in Canada, the 14th Amendment does not apply; because his father was Cuban the traditional understanding of NBC (born to two citizen parents) does not apply.. all Cruz would have to fall back on is trying to confuse people that "citizen at birth" is "natural born citizen"... but to do that he would have to point to Congressional naturalization law which (a) is about naturalization, and (b) can only come from the Art 1, Sec 8 powers which only apply to "establish[ing] an uniform Rule of Naturalization".

And then it becomes clear that he's naturalized, not natural born.

Blogger Irene W December 09, 2015 1:17 AM  

"And in a MSNBC poll, 92 percent of Americans 18-24 said Trump is not going too far in his proposal to ban all Muslim immigration."

That statistic seems incredible. Was that 92 percent of all Americans 18-24...or 92 percent in an informal poll by MSNBC at a "birds-of-a-feather" gathering?

Blogger SirThermite (VFM #0025) December 09, 2015 1:19 AM  

Heard a female caller tell Mitch Albom this evening during my commute home that she "doesn't *necessarily* agree with Trump, but at least he has Americans talking about the issue," and she went on to observe that the other politicians are complaining without proposing any solutions, which she rightly pointed out "is the definition of whining."

Mitch Albom's typical cuck response was "America was founded on religious freedom" and then he went on to argue that it's *not* good for Americans to be talking about keeping Muslims out because it will be trumpeted by "Islamic extremists" for recruitment. SMH. Typical promotion of vibrancy and appeasement from another non-Israeli Jew.

Blogger CM December 09, 2015 1:23 AM  

poll by MSNBC at a "birds-of-a-feather" gathering?

What does it matter? If that many "birds of a feather" with MSNBC agree with Trump or would go further, then imagine how many NORMAL 18-24 yo are in agreement with Trump?

It was an MSNBC poll. I'm surprised they published the results.

Blogger IM2L844 December 09, 2015 1:25 AM  

Not even Trump can defeat Trump. This is the most entertaining election cycle EVAR!

Blogger Irene W December 09, 2015 1:50 AM  

No, CM not "birds-of-a-feather" with MSNBC. "Birds-of-a-feather" flocking together in their (ever-so-slightly) varying degrees of support for Trump.

Blogger Daniel December 09, 2015 1:58 AM  

The final word on the matter:

jebbush.com

Go there, now.

Anonymous VFM #259 December 09, 2015 2:20 AM  

@128 "We can't spare this man - he fights."

Good lord man, did you really just try to persuade Nate, of all people, by using a Lincoln quote praising Gen. Grant?!?

Blogger Mandos December 09, 2015 2:24 AM  

@157 and @159
They had to publish the results, the poll was run live on TV. Actually the approval among the 18-24 isn't even the most amazing thing about this poll if you ask me.

https://twitter.com/Borishighjinx/status/674360259431956480

As of Trump, I agree with Vox. What his presidency would look like is basically irrelevant at this stage, the only thing that matters is the way he is shifting the narrative.

But his likelihood of getting the nomination is still low, as the Republican establishment will do absolutely anything to bend the rules against him. There are still three levels of counter-measures they can, and will take come the time.

1- Delegate denying and all related sorts of apparel tricks, Ron Paul on steroids style. Expect a whole new level of fraud.
2- Plain exclusion from the Republican Party for whatever reason they will deem relevant. Trump might try the independent run but he has no chance to win this way.
3- Assassination if options 1 and 2 fail.

The only issue for them is that they're already at the stage where none of these solutions can be advertised. They have no public justification for what is going to happen, so the official stance has to acknowledge a struggle in front of the Trumpmania - before a sudden, miraculous awakening of the reasonable American voters happens once the primary starts. The plan is to make the pollsters look bad while cooked results fall from the early states. Odds of success are very high.

Blogger CM December 09, 2015 2:40 AM  

Actually the approval among the 18-24 isn't even the most amazing thing about this poll if you ask me.

So Racist Trump has African Americans agreeing with him at unprecedented levels... lol.

Poor GOPe. 20 years chasing that elusive black vote and it is Trump that steals the favor with "Outrageous Extreme Right White Supremacist" talking points.

Anonymous Takin' a Look December 09, 2015 4:02 AM  

This is a really, really, dumb question. Do the minority muslim secte recognize the ISIS Caliphate? I'm speaking of the Druze, Sufis, Shi'ites, Alawites, etc.

IIRC, Southeast Asia has a rapidly growing sect that is like a weird blend of Christianity and Buddhism with an Islamic stamp. I read about it 20 years ago but totally forgot the name.

I'm asking because so far, ISIS seems to be a theologically Sunni phenomenon. And ISIS is slaughtering Shi'ites in massive numbers right alongside Christians and Yazadis.

Blogger Cail Corishev December 09, 2015 4:17 AM  

"If Trump were not running, would we, would anyone be discussing not letting in any more Moslems? "

Better question: the last time Muslims killed a bunch of people in the US, did any of these candidates raise the possibility of banning Muslim immigration?

If not, what has changed, and who changed it?

Anonymous Takin' a Look December 09, 2015 4:26 AM  

@ Cail Corishev

Damn good question.

Blogger rho December 09, 2015 4:30 AM  

@66 haus frau
Matt Walsh: "So I want you to consider everything Trump has said just in the last day. Going under reported is the fact that Trump suggested we "close up that internet" to stop terrorists. He said he'd talk to Bill Gates (?) about "closing the internet" and then called anyone who mentioned the First Amendment "fools."

I think Hillary has also said something similar. Even weev suggests fighting ISIS through jiggery pokery with BGP routes. It's not an insane position, no matter how insulting Matt Walsh finds it.

As for Trump, I don't think he's willing to take the pay cut required to check out for 4-8 years to be President.

That said, alphas closing the Overton window on the fingers of gammas will definitely r-select the K out of false-flag cuckservatives who observably only care about disqualifying the train, which is fine. So there's that, at least.

(Also, Josh isn't Nate. Josh clearly has more free time on his hands, whereas Nate spells like he took rebar wielded in anger to his head.)

Blogger Cail Corishev December 09, 2015 4:33 AM  

And Cruz is solid on the 2nd?

I assume that none of the candidates, all of them being Beltway insiders, is really "solid" on 2A in his gut the way we are. But they know that their political lives depend on standing firm on it, so they've developed filters that make sure nothing wobbly on 2A ever passes their lips. Trump doesn't have that filter, so he blurted out something that I'd bet many of them think but know not to say. He's going to have to be taught how important the issue is and made to swear fealty to it, just like the rest learned at their Young Republican meetings.

Look at the Bushes: does anyone seriously think these country-club Republicans are dedicated to keeping guns in the hands of the commons? Of course not. But they didn't start grabbing guns while in office -- or compromising with Democrats who would do so, which amounts to the same thing -- because they know it would be suicide (perhaps literally). Even so, I seem to remember GWB making us nervous several times, despite all the right campaign promises. It's the fear of 300 million guns in the hands of 100 million citizens that keeps GOP lifers on the side of 2A rights, not any devout dedication to our rights.

Blogger Cail Corishev December 09, 2015 4:41 AM  

I don't get the hand wringing over the guns/no fly list thing. Maybe it's because I don't understand exactly what the no fly list is. Who gets on this list?

Apparently it's very easy to end up on the list. I heard that even many Homeland Security employees found their names on it. Maybe calling Hillary ugly or Barack stupid gets you on it. Who knows. Trump probably didn't know that, so once he learns, he'll walk that back.

But that's not as important as the fact that he clearly doesn't know that candidates aren't allowed to "consider" increased restrictions on guns. The others have all sworn to uphold the Second Amendment (whether they meant it or not) in the process of working their way up through the GOP ranks; he should be required to do the same thing.

Blogger Cail Corishev December 09, 2015 4:50 AM  

So 92% of MSNBC viewers 18-24 think Trump didn't go too far? Whoa. That's almost too-good-to-be-true territory; it might be easier to believe that they got the numbers backwards.

Wait, MSNBC has viewers ages 18-24?

Blogger rho December 09, 2015 5:02 AM  

But that's not as important as the fact that he clearly doesn't know that candidates aren't allowed to "consider" increased restrictions on guns. The others have all sworn to uphold the Second Amendment (whether they meant it or not) in the process of working their way up through the GOP ranks; he should be required to do the same thing.

Nate may suffer from traumatic brain injury, but I doubt even he will accept this tenuous chain of tortured logic.

I could be wrong. After all, I learned recently that the Preamble surpasses the Constitution. So, perhaps Trump works as Trump-supporters dictate. I wish I had a puppet so malleable.

Blogger Irene W December 09, 2015 5:16 AM  

The plan is to make the pollsters look bad while cooked results fall from the early states. Odds of success are very high. Mandos, thanks for pointing to the MSNBC poll.

As a Ron Paul supporter in 2008/2012, I was encouraged by such polls that gave him the lead, and outraged later on by attempts to discredit them. So to be fair, I have to accept what such polls are saying about Trump's popularity. Responding on emotion, Trump's religion-based denial of aid is abhorrent to me. The ban may be warranted, though, if we don't have enough background information to distinguish those who mean us harm from those that don't.

But where does the suspicion of Muslims stop? Will hiding Muslim friends and neighbors soon be generally considered an act of treason? The goal of both the Jihadists and the Neocons is to eliminate the "gray zone" of concord between Muslims and non-Muslims. I believe there is still time to resist.

Blogger Cail Corishev December 09, 2015 5:18 AM  

I'll type slower: Trump wants to win. Trump needs votes. Gun owners vote. Trump can't win without their votes.

Does that make him a puppet, or a candidate in an election? He's already said he supports the Second Amendment, so we're not demanding that he switch sides or abandon a principle. But this statement casts doubt on whether he takes 2A as seriously as he should or understands what supporting it really means. Aren't the people supposed to let candidates know what they want?

Blogger rho December 09, 2015 5:45 AM  

I'll type slower: Trump wants to win. Trump needs votes. Gun owners vote. Trump can't win without their votes.

I'll be succinct, and not condescending: It's not clear that Trump wants to win, because what does he get out of winning? I'll accept your opinion when it's comparable to Trump's nut.

Blogger Mint December 09, 2015 5:46 AM  

I have some Haloscan saved in my backup folders if anyone wants to peek at the past. Maybe it would help new readers to differentiate Nate from Josh. Although, how can anybody confuse those two very different characters, is .... a bit strange. Sadly I do not think I ever saved anything related to immigration as my interest back then was in Christianity VS Atheism.

@166 I live in Southeast Asia, Indonesia to be exact. Indonesians are mostly Sunni Muslims. I have heard denouncement of Isis formally from government. Indonesians are moderate muslims with most of adherents ( the Javanese) have a heavy cultural influences from Hindu and Buddhism rites which came before Islam in Java. Do we have hard core fundamental Islam here? of course. 16 Indonesian tourists were "lost" in Turkey some weeks ago, were thought on their way to join ISIS.

Blogger rho December 09, 2015 5:51 AM  

I have some Haloscan saved in my backup folders if anyone wants to peek at the past. Maybe it would help new readers to differentiate Nate from Josh.

That's the joke.

Just wait until you see the train.

Anonymous That Would Be Telling December 09, 2015 6:36 AM  

I tend to think there are no skeletons in Trump's closet. Every day he is moving mainstream political opinions further to the right. I can't imagine the elite sitting on anything they could use to destroy him with now and stop the hemorrhaging.

"When you strike at a king, you must kill him."

We've been told the GOPe "balked at trying to take down Mr. Trump because they fear a public feud with the insult-spewing media figure."

If they don't have something that's truly kryptonite, that will shut him up or eliminate the platforms he's communicating with, right now I'd guess a lot of them feel they have more to lose, probably a lot more.

Imagine Trump shining enough light on one of them that they become kryptonite, lose most of their influence because GOP politicians no longer dare take their money.

Anonymous That Would Be Telling December 09, 2015 6:55 AM  

@170 Cail Corishev: Look at the Bushes: does anyone seriously think these country-club Republicans are dedicated to keeping guns in the hands of the commons? Of course not. But they didn't start grabbing guns while in office -- or compromising with Democrats who would do so, which amounts to the same thing -- because they know it would be suicide (perhaps literally)."

Actually, it was political suicide for George H. W. Bush, he started the "assault weapon" banning at the Federal level, and his import ban is still in effect. His son W ran against what had become the very anti-gun Al Gore, who after Columbine proposed to require a new Federal id to be able to buy handguns as well as the usual stuff. And who was thought to have lost on this issue alone, didn't even win in what was in theory his home state, even with W saying he'd sign a renewal of the assault weapons ban if it came to his desk. And those are just the worst examples of their gun controlling tendencies.

¡Jeb! clearly is roughly the same, but since 1998 when he joined much of the GOPe in favoring "closing the gun show loophole" (requiring all gun purchases to go through the NICS) he's been smart enough to mostly say the right things. But no serious RKBA advocate should trust him.

Blogger Desiderius December 09, 2015 7:19 AM  

"If not, what has changed, and who changed it?"

The failure of Bush's strategy in Iraq to create a viable more liberal alternative version of Islam.

Blogger Desiderius December 09, 2015 7:20 AM  

Or more modestly to jumpstart anything resembling a Muslim Reformation.

Anonymous Takin' a Look December 09, 2015 7:44 AM  

@ Mint

Thank you

Blogger Cail Corishev December 09, 2015 9:15 AM  

We've been told the GOPe "balked at trying to take down Mr. Trump because they fear a public feud with the insult-spewing media figure."

Come to think of it, maybe they're skittish from Bill Clinton. Republicans threw one scandal after another at Clinton -- scandals that would have had any previous politician resigning before the news could hit the wires -- and nothing stuck because he simply refused to be ashamed. The more they tried, the worse the media was able to make them look.

So maybe they ask themselves, "What if we run this story about how Miss Universe contestants used to have to blow Trump to get into the semifinals, and he just brags about it and his numbers with 18-24-year-old men go through the roof?" In this age of tranny-love and pedo-acceptance and everything else, the old scandals might not work. For the sake of the last few presidents, the parties convinced us that drug use doesn't matter. What's left? Financial shenanigans? Nah, Rose Law Firm and Haliburton, that ship has sailed too. What's left?

I think they'll have to shoot him.

Blogger CM December 09, 2015 9:29 AM  

RKBA

Why this and not R2BA or RTBA? What does the K stand for?

Anonymous That Would Be Telling December 09, 2015 9:51 AM  

@185: Changing from the original capitalization or lack thereof: "... the Right of the people to Keep and Bear Arms, shall not be infringed." RKBA.

Anonymous Andrew E. December 09, 2015 10:20 AM  

@ 154. Were-Puppy

"Imagine Lois Lerner having a clerical error and all of a sudden, all NRA members are on the no fly list. Or all Christians. We don't have to imagine very much to see how an Obama administration would drool over the opportunities."

Ok. However, Trump being in line with people like George Washington, John Adams, Hamilton and Jefferson, understands that any national government worth existing reserves the right to declare enemies of state when appropriate and it's worth looking at whether persons designated as such should be allowed to buy firearms. I am firmly confident, having watched all of Trump's speeches and almost every interview, that this was the context he has in mind when asked about no fly list/guns.

Anonymous BGS December 09, 2015 10:24 AM  

MSNBC at a "birds-of-a-feather" gathering?

Ok I will let you in on a secrete MSNBC polls people as they leave gay bathhouses

Blogger Chris Ritchie December 09, 2015 10:27 AM  

Just had this conversation last night with a friend. I explained that religious freedom had limits, and only under the banner of the freedom of the Christian religion. Christianity has shown remarkable tolerance in this country for other religions. You don't get that tolerance in Muslim countries, nor in Israel. I explained we don't tolerate some of the more heinous practices of other religions that called for child sacrifice (Aztec) or polygamy (Mormon). No, there's a limit to what is tolerated. Thanks for the extra ammo from this post. I'll be sure to bring it up in any upcoming conversations.

Blogger CM December 09, 2015 10:29 AM  

Changing from the original capitalization or lack thereof: "... the Right of the people to Keep and Bear Arms, shall not be infringed." RKBA.

Thanks!

right to declare enemies of state when appropriate and it's worth looking at whether persons designated as such should be allowed to buy firearms.

No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.

Unless there are other means of declaring enemy of state, the "no fly list" isn't how you do it.

Sometimes I think I'm invisible. Usually, i don't care. My comments don't amount to much. But this I already addressed...

Blogger JaimeInTexas December 09, 2015 12:59 PM  

@81. JC

Trump is not talking about deportation of American citizens. Trump is ONLY talking about foreign Muslims. Trump explicitly has stated that he is not referring to Muslims citizens of these uSA.

Blogger John Wright December 09, 2015 1:05 PM  

I have a friend who used to work for the INS. He tells me serving a foreign flag or swearing loyalty to a foreign power is grounds for immediate loss of citizenship. And if you are within the United States when you do that you instantly become an illegal alien present without permission and liable to deportation.

Blogger Unknown December 09, 2015 1:28 PM  

@140 0bammy may be the worst president, but Jimmy the peanut farmer is still the worst ex-president. So far.

Blogger Unknown December 09, 2015 1:32 PM  

@140 0bammy may be the worst president, but Jimmy the peanut farmer is still the worst ex-president. So far.

Anonymous tz December 09, 2015 1:41 PM  

And in the deportment department:

http://buchanan.org/blog/the-persecution-of-john-demjanjuk-4743

As for the ID card from Trawniki, just last month there was unearthed at the National Archives in College Park, Md., a 1985 report from the Cleveland office of the FBI, which, after studying the card, concluded it was “quite likely” a KGB forgery.

“Justice is ill-served in the prosecution of an American citizen on evidence which is not only normally inadmissible in a court of law, but based on evidence and allegations quite likely fabricated by the KGB.”

This FBI report, never made public, was done just as Demjanjuk was being deported to Israel to stand trial as “Ivan the Terrible,” the murderer of Treblinka. In a sensational trial covered by the world’s press, Demjanjuk was convicted and sentenced to hang.

But after five years on death row, new evidence turned up when the Soviet Union collapsed and Russia opened up. That evidence wholly validated the claims of Demjanjuk’s defenders.

Not only had Demjanjuk never even been at Treblinka, the Soviet files contained a photograph of the real “Ivan” — a larger and older man.

Anonymous tz December 09, 2015 1:43 PM  

They consider the Gasden Flag and Stars and Bars "foreign flags".

Anonymous Jay Will December 09, 2015 2:00 PM  

Trumps comment about London police was great. Establishment elite and various BBC lefties are going mad on twitter. Their narrative is being challenged and its built on sand.

Blogger JaimeInTexas December 09, 2015 4:31 PM  

@193. John Wright

"He tells me serving a foreign flag or swearing loyalty to a foreign power is grounds for immediate loss of citizenship."

Hmmm. That is interesting.

Is losing citizenship due to "serving a foreign flag" dependent on which foreign country?

Getting another passport is it not the same as "swearing loyalty" to the issuer of the passport?

Blogger BunE22 December 09, 2015 5:29 PM  

Well this explains a lot.

Muslim Immigrants Prefer More Gov't Services/70% Democrat

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