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Thursday, January 21, 2016

A second SJW attack on PHP

Another SJW, this time one Derick Rethan, takes another crack at imposing a Code of Conduct on PHP:
Hi, I've decided to re-propose the CoC RFC. There are many reasons for it, but there are a few points I want to make. I strongly believe that a Code of Conduct is required. The amount of toxic behaviour on this list is in my opinion unacceptable. It drives people away, it certainly did. It is also one of the reasons I am not nearly as active as I used to be.

It also makes me reluctant to welcome and mentor new people wanting to contribute. I have said "no" to two people in the last few days, mostly because I am not sure whether I want them exposed to some of the things being said on the list.

But I think this list, and hence this project, and language, can be improved. A Code of Conduct alone is not enough. The focus for this list, and wider community, should be on collaborating to make PHP even better and faster than it already is. Collaboration works better in a happy environment, where people work together instead of against each other.

The new 0.5 version of the RFC that is up at  https://wiki.php.net/rfc/adopt-code-of-conduct focusses more on working  together and mediation than on acting with an iron fist on when things
go awry, although these parts of the RFC are still included. In my opinion, an CoC that is not enforced is nothing but some text on a piece  of paper—or in our case, a few bits on a disk. I have added a section,  Constructive Contributor Guidelines, in addition to the CoC. This section definitely needs improving.

I would everybody invite you to help out improving this RFC, but please take into account  https://wiki.php.net/rfc/adopt-code-of-conduct#constructive_collaboration_guidelines

I want this to work, and work together, to get this approved.

cheers,
If the project leader at PHP has any sense at all, he will expel this SJW from the project immediately. Notice how he spews squid ink the moment his idiocy is confronted:
There is no mechanism or ability for one to confront ones accuser

That is a tricky one. In my opinion, in the case of abuse as pointed out in the draft CoC, I think this is fair, and necessary that we all for reports of abuse in private, and with secrecy. Without it, an accusor is likely immediately going to be lambasted by the perpetrator.

Here we have the core of (yet another) problem: presumption of guilt. The "accused" is casually referred to as the "perpetrator."  This is *exactly* why the accused needs to be able to confront the accuser.

The common reply here is to say "oops, sorry, I meant to say 'the accused'".  I don't think that's true; it's a wink-and-a-nod, a recognition that one has revealed their true thoughts: all accusations are to be believed. Except, of course, the ones that are not to be believed, and those will (strangely enough) line up with the political beliefs of the enforcers. Because it is a political document, the Contributor Covenant is *intended* to work that way.

That is only one of the many reasons the Contributor Covenant, and all documents like it, should be removed in toto from any Code of Conduct discussion.
There is nothing "tricky" about it. SJWs want to be able to act arbitrarily, and in secret, without any oversight or possibility of public protest. Again, PHP should ban this SJW from the project immediately; he is actively seeking to destroy it and he is using deception to do so.

Furthermore, the Code of Merit appears to be an effective way to go, because the SJWs are definitely against it:
I had a look at this, and I think it is not suitable. It is almost the exact opposite of promoting collaborative behaviour, and instead only focusses on the "if you done nothing before, you have no voice". There is also no chance the PHP project will have have a benevolent dictator (or group of people). And it only focusses on the technical aspects of a community, but even covering a set of guidelines to improve collaboration.
Remember, to the SJW, "not suitable" means "it won't help us take control and play thought police." But clearly it can be approved. "Almost the exact opposite" is not good enough. If they're not shrieking and crying and protesting, it's clearly not enough.

Show them you mean business and will not put up with the disruption. Kick them out as soon as they show themselves.

Labels: , ,

87 Comments:

Blogger Happy Housewife January 21, 2016 1:22 PM  

"The amount of toxic behaviour on this list is in my opinion unacceptable."

Ah, yes, his opinion should be used as the metric for everyone's behavior because reasons.

Blogger Badmojo January 21, 2016 1:24 PM  


There isn't a BDFL for PHP.

There's Rasmus (original creator) and then Andi and Zeev (re-wrote major portions for the next version), and a loose alliance of contributors over the last 20(!) years. Zeev has spoken up[1] and acknowledged the white knightness with "in the electronic equivalent of a shining armor" so there is hope.

1 - http://news.php.net/php.internals/90766

Blogger ScottD January 21, 2016 1:30 PM  

This is the tell: "There is also no chance the PHP project will have have a benevolent dictator (or group of people)."

That is why they want to impose a vague subjective code, because they view the project as a dictatorship, which they will not run benevolently.

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 January 21, 2016 1:30 PM  

Apparently "promoting collaborative behavior" means "suppressing conflicts through suppression of dissent and disagreement".

I don't see how that's a promotion of collaboration at all. If we're operating under the assumption that only like-minded people want to collaborate, then this doesn't help at all, because the disagreements between people will be known to those people even if they aren't discussed.

Blogger Josh January 21, 2016 1:45 PM  

Leo,

SJWs always lie

Blogger Thomas Davidsmeier January 21, 2016 1:50 PM  

Vox,

I used to think that the stuff about Scalzi in SJWAL wasn't necessary to include.

Now, I see the wisdom of discussing it as an archetype of a SJW attack. It is amazing how similarly they work in all these various situations. They really do intend to follow the same pattern every time.

I'm beginning to understand this quote of Solzhenitsyn (that Vox seems to more that fully grasp) more and more:

“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”

Anonymous kfg January 21, 2016 1:53 PM  

"A Code of Conduct alone is not enough."

Dude, shhhhhhhh! You're letting the cat out of the bag.

Anonymous Cassie January 21, 2016 1:56 PM  

"The amount of toxic behaviour on this list is in my opinion unacceptable."

Says the person auditioning for the position of benevolent dictator.

Of course @3 nails it: dictatorships of the SJW are never benevolent.

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 January 21, 2016 1:56 PM  

@5

I know that. I was just expecting an SJW in tech to have a half-rational explanation for their ideas.

But even ignoring the fact that this person is an SJW, the idea doesn't make sense even for it's stated purpose of "promoting collaboration".

Blogger dh January 21, 2016 1:59 PM  

PHP is a project on the edge of a fork. There's been ongoing design and consensus problems. PHP7 is newly released, and if it fails to win over the user base, PHP5 code base may end up forked underleadership of a benevolent project dictator like Zeev.

The CoC could be the powder keg that sets it all off.

Inside the PHP community there are not very many SJW's, mostly because of lot of the core developers are from countries where it's not yet trendy.

Blogger dh January 21, 2016 1:59 PM  

PHP is a project on the edge of a fork. There's been ongoing design and consensus problems. PHP7 is newly released, and if it fails to win over the user base, PHP5 code base may end up forked underleadership of a benevolent project dictator like Zeev.

The CoC could be the powder keg that sets it all off.

Inside the PHP community there are not very many SJW's, mostly because of lot of the core developers are from countries where it's not yet trendy.

Blogger Skylark Thibedeau January 21, 2016 2:03 PM  

Someone is angling to be The Commissar of Code. I wonder how much Mozilla is going to lose now that Eich has escaped the Stasi and is about to go into direct competition?

Blogger Eric Castle January 21, 2016 2:03 PM  

@9

Do not confuse the arena ("in tech") with the actual person involved. While there is some overlap with recent attacks, many times these people are what they are precisely because they cannot make it "in tech" or are non-technical.

That is like expecting HR departments to be full of people proficient in whatever their company does.

Anonymous Faceless January 21, 2016 2:07 PM  

@9

Better to expect them to be more of a smug, self-satisfied asshole like Pajama Boy's self described "liberal fuck" who, in his mind, never loses a debate - they are the gamma's gamma.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer January 21, 2016 2:08 PM  

Its not like writing good code is hard or anything. The important part is to make sure everyone is awesome to each other and inclusive and drinks their brawno, cause its got electrolytes and shit.

Anonymous Drove January 21, 2016 2:12 PM  

Derick Rethan drove two people out of PHP, which is more than anyone else ever did against the community.

Blogger njtech January 21, 2016 2:13 PM  

Ironic that on a programming forum an SJW demonstrates to one and all the very predictive programming outlined in SJWAL.

It is remarkable to see them blanch when the spear tip is removed from their plan.

I like that Paul Jones, I don't know if he has any knowledge of this blog or SJWAL but he's definitely got some starch in his collar.

Blogger pyrrhus January 21, 2016 2:17 PM  

SJWs hate the concept that "if you done nothing before, you have no voice". That hatred sums up their entire world view.

Blogger Nate January 21, 2016 2:19 PM  

"and instead only focusses on the "if you done nothing before, you have no voice". "

That's a feature. Not a bug.

Anonymous fish January 21, 2016 2:20 PM  

15. Ron Winkleheimer January 21, 2016 2:08 PM


So when can I expect you? You know....to come over and clean the coffee from my monitor and keyboard!

Blogger weka January 21, 2016 2:20 PM  

Yeah, if you are rude enough to call unacceptable I will find your presence unacceptable.

I think Linus' technique of scathing sarcasm has merits. As has is satire of a CoC.

Blogger Chiva January 21, 2016 2:35 PM  

And it only focusses on the technical aspects of a community

Because it is a technical community......

Blogger Anthony January 21, 2016 2:47 PM  

A comment in the earlier thread deserves to be spread around as a meme within the open-source community - Codes of Conduct are bringing back Corporate Culture to a community which in large part exists as a way to escape from corporate culture.

Blogger tz January 21, 2016 2:53 PM  

"The amount of toxic behaviour on this list is in my opinion unacceptable."
I can join and attempt to double the amount if you like.

"It also makes me reluctant to welcome and mentor new people wanting to contribute. I have said "no" to two people in the last few days, mostly because I am not sure whether I want them exposed to some of the things being said on the list."
You mean your fellow SJWs are so delicate that they either 1. couldn't stand being challenged, or 2. aren't beyond SJW acolytes so would start thought-policing before the code was in place?

Blogger tz January 21, 2016 2:56 PM  

@23 - it's far worse. Corporations run out of money and fold if they push it too long. Shareholders usually mutiny.
This is Mao's "let a hundred flowers bloom so you can decapitate the tall ones" thought control fear culture.
This is the wrong side of the Berlin Wall complete with the Stasi.

Blogger tz January 21, 2016 3:06 PM  

"if you done nothing before, you have no voice"
Quite. If your first "contribution" is to be a harpy screaming "but you're doing it wrong", it is better not to give you a voice.

I don't think there has been one case of actual, serious harassment (actual threats of harm, doxing) of any major contributor to any project - at least within the project (I only say that because someone, somewhere in the GG v. SJW probably has a project but has been attacked on Twitter by a sock-puppet).

There have been two women who because Linus Torvalds is rough, clear, vulgar, and even insulting, have left their backwater sections of Linux Kernel Development. Running it like a Bootcamp drill sergeant is probably one reason Linux is so good. There are many other projects with more personable leaders they are free to join, or start their own.

Note: http://tomwoods.com/podcast has Milo on today. And Linkificator https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/linkificator/ works with palemoon.

Anonymous Frank B Luke January 21, 2016 3:06 PM  

@6 >Now, I see the wisdom of discussing it as an archetype of a SJW attack. It is amazing how similarly they work in all these various situations. They really do intend to follow the same pattern every time.

They are Morlocks-parasites incapable of creating something new. They can only abuse, twist, and pervert what right thinkers have done before.

Blogger Lovekraft January 21, 2016 3:17 PM  

Imagine if Michaelangelo, Mozart, Eintstein had to go through the massive amount of b.s. sjws put people through.

Where would we be today but further under the boot of oppression?

Where would we be today if all sjws were put in their proper place?

Blogger tz January 21, 2016 3:18 PM  

Speaking of toxic:
'Thar she blows!, our favorite blue-hair landwhale
http://news.php.net/php.internals/90763

They fight so hard to foul whatever nests they manage to invade and make a big enough fuss to become infamous, so any association with them, or attempt to "help" results in poisoning the SJW entry attempt. Hackers might be too tolerant and naive, but they are neither stupid nor foolish. And have learned to ID malware CoCs.

Blogger automatthew January 21, 2016 3:19 PM  

Principles of Project Protection

1. If you done nothing before, you have no voice.
2. If you attempt to disrupt the project, you will lose your voice.
3. If you attempt to subvert the project governors, you will lose your voice.
4. If you dislike the governance of the project, fork it and fuck off.

Blogger tz January 21, 2016 3:19 PM  

@28 - like the name

"Where would we be today if all sjws were put in their proper place?"

As their proper place is a lower circle of hell...

Anonymous WillBest January 21, 2016 3:21 PM  

I struggle to understand how there could ever be a need for a Code of Conduct in a community where

1) communication is 99% done through text (an objective record will exist)

2) being a participant is entirely voluntary (its not abuse if you willingly submit to it

A better chair, a 2nd or 3rd monitor, or better office lighting will improve the working environment more than curtailing any abrasiveness in the criticism of your work. Or you could just write better code.

Blogger tz January 21, 2016 3:22 PM  

@30
Good, especially #4.
For #2 and #3, I prefer slightly different, clearer language "your vocal chords will be ripped out and placed on pikes, an image of which is on the project homepage".

Patches speak louder than critiques, much less complaints.

Blogger Lovekraft January 21, 2016 3:22 PM  

Imagine if Michaelangelo, Mozart, Eintstein had to go through the massive amount of b.s. sjws put people through.

Where would we be today but further under the boot of oppression?

Where would we be today if all sjws were put in their proper place?

Anonymous kfg January 21, 2016 3:23 PM  

@22 Chiva: "Because it is a technical community......"

And that's just wrong!

Blogger automatthew January 21, 2016 3:24 PM  

FOF License:

Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person (except those listed below) obtaining a copy of this software and associated documentation files (the "Software"), to deal in the Software without restriction, including without limitation the rights to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense, and/or sell copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the Software is furnished to do so.

Persons prohibited from using the Software:

* Derick Rethan
* Anthony Ferrara
* Coraline Ada Ehmke
* Adria Richards
* Julie Ann Horvath

Blogger Groot January 21, 2016 3:27 PM  

What if you wrote a book, and then they did exactly what you predicted they'd do? What if the immigrants actually started raping and assaulting the women? What if they came over and actually screwed the pooch?

A fiction writer would have pulled back to make it more realistic.

Blogger JaimeInTexas January 21, 2016 3:31 PM  

I perused the php.internals and I do think that the whole Code of Conduct discussion does not belong in there. The RFC is for coding related issues.

This reminded me of, on a non-technical email group, someone made a comment that was out of place. I shut down any possibility of the comment becoming an issue with a simple remark, with lots of contempt dripping from it, about the inappropriateness of the comment within the email group. That was the end of that. Had it not been sufficient I would have made sure that everyone understood that they were part of the group on their own volition but membership in the group was conditional on the organization's director approval.

Is anyone in charge of the RFCs? Shut it off.

Blogger David of One January 21, 2016 3:34 PM  

"Wabbit Season!"
"Cuck Season!"
"Wabbit Season!"
"Cuck Season!"

It doesn't matter! Fire!

Blogger Danby January 21, 2016 3:40 PM  

"It also makes me reluctant to welcome and mentor new people wanting to contribute. I have said "no" to two people in the last few days, mostly because I am not sure whether I want them exposed to some of the things being said on the list."

I'm calling bullshit. This is a straight-up lie.

Anonymous No January 21, 2016 3:41 PM  

SJWs are a virus. If you don't identify, quarantine and delete immediately, they are going to morph until they take your system down.

Anonymous SouthRon January 21, 2016 3:45 PM  

What we need is a good CoC block.

Blogger Doktor Jeep January 21, 2016 3:50 PM  

It's time to go on the offensive against these SJW scum.

That's TWO names I'll be sure to name and shame.

But where can I go to get a more complete list of SJW names and online handles? I'm serious. I'm involved in a project that may be public OSS in the future and it's going to be essential to keep this fucking virus out.

If such a listing does not exist, where can I look to create one?

Yeah I know about Encyclopedia Dramatica but those are clowns meant to get all the attention while the "quiet" ones sneak in.

Anonymous That Would Be Telling January 21, 2016 3:56 PM  

@32 WillBest:

I struggle to understand how there could ever be a need for a Code of Conduct in a community where

1) communication is 99% done through text (an objective record will exist)

2) being a participant is entirely voluntary (its not abuse if you willingly submit to it


As I suspect you know, it has nothing to do with that sort of thing. Coraline, who's attacking Ruby directly, is the author of the proposed CoC for PHP, and xhe first came to prominence in a drive by attack on the Opal Ruby project and one major contributor who wasn't entirely keen about gender reassigning children.

Which is why xhe's CoC unbounded, specially "This Code of Conduct applies both within project spaces and in public spaces when an individual is representing the project or its community.", where xhe defines "is representing the project or its community" as advertising one is in any way contributing to the project or part of its community, the sort of thing that helps you get jobs like mentioning the project in your Twitter profile, as the OpalGate target did. Gleichschaltung or get out, including out of your job and career in programming.

Blogger Noah B January 21, 2016 4:00 PM  

I suspect that this is an organized attack, likely funded by a powerful party like Microsoft, Apple, or the NSA that has a vested interest in undermining open source software.

Anonymous kfg January 21, 2016 4:05 PM  

@Noah B:

The strategy makes that sort of directed funding unnecessary. If you simply provide enough funding to keep enough SJW's alive they operate on auto-rabbit after that.

Anonymous LurkingPuppy January 21, 2016 4:10 PM  

@43: But where can I go to get a more complete list of SJW names and online handles?

They can create new identities at will (e.g. ‘djangoconcardiff’). Some Leftists even have stockpiles of long-term pseudonyms.

Anonymous WillBest January 21, 2016 4:12 PM  

I get that it is being proposed as entryism and as a means of control later but what I don't understand is why anybody would agree to anything that is a solution to a problem that can't exist, because at best its meaningless, and at worse it can backfire in some immediately unforeseen way (and its even worse when the backfire is foreseeable).

Also, why have I been seeing the use of the imaginary xhe pronoun around here lately? Even if it is being used sarcastically, that isn't immediately apparent in text without the context of the site.

Anonymous kfg January 21, 2016 4:13 PM  

Addendum:

We call them rabbits, and for good reason, but bear in mind that their own ideal is the social insect, and for good reason. Most of them are programmed for swarming behaviour. It's directed at the neural wiring level, not at the strategic thought level.

Blogger Mike Farnsworth January 21, 2016 4:16 PM  

@43: But where can I go to get a more complete list of SJW names and online handles?

Maybe I need to go resurrect the little project I started that was intended to use neural nets to identify people by language. It would be fun to train the net to spit out percentage confidence in at least three categories: SJW, SJW satire, and non-SJW.

Anonymous Lestat January 21, 2016 4:21 PM  

A bit off-topic but still relevant for being against SJW - https://brave.com/ - Brendan Eichs new Browser, where he finally will get revenge against Mozilla for the humiliation of being mobbed out as short time CEO.

Support that guy and his new project, and who is still using Firefox or does know someone who is still using Firefox, help them replace it with Brave too when it is finally released.

A real browser for proud conservative Christians and traditional values loving people in general.

Anonymous That Would Be Telling January 21, 2016 4:22 PM  

@46 kfg:

@Noah B:

The strategy makes that sort of directed funding unnecessary. If you simply provide enough funding to keep enough SJW's alive they operate on auto-rabbit after that.


Well, in the case of the keeper of this CoC they're doing a terrible job, at least publically, for xhe's Patreon account is pulling in only $300/month, which xhe informs us doesn't cover xhe's $400/month "transition expenses", which xhe is pissed are not covered by xeh's medical insurance.

Active measures funding third parties to take out competitors are certainly part of Microsoft's toolbox, as we saw with SCO v. The World, and they didn't visibly suffer for that.

Anonymous Lestat January 21, 2016 4:22 PM  

Guess that project is worth of a full blogpost in Voxday too. :)

Blogger Mike Farnsworth January 21, 2016 4:24 PM  

@53

It's not anywhere near done, so no, not yet. It was just in the research stages (I'm a software dev, but I've not personally done neural nets before). But if I could cobble some time together I'd sure have fun making it happen.

Blogger Doktor Jeep January 21, 2016 4:28 PM  

@50
Hello Mike.
I have considered such a thing. In fact, I just practiced it. I saw this text in the internals message chain and though "hmm SJW?". This is the "I feel threatened and can't talk about it" maneuver.

"
That being said, the CoC discussion seems to have attracted attention
from other parts of the Internet, and at least I, personally, do not
feel entirely safe speaking out about it now because I fear becoming the
newest target of online harassment from right-wing groups. This
discussion is already being watched by them.
"


I looked up the poster and found a very typical SJW profile.


What you are touching on is something I have referred to as "phraseology". That is, an individual puts sentences together and/or responds to things in texts that are unique. But it's also a concept that could help us understand when someone is spewing talking points.


I have a lot of coding experience in word/string parsing and looking for patterns and have also toyed with such a program, but I'm tied up on another project. If you get anything started, I'll be happy to be a contributor. I have been writing code since the the 1980s (professionally since the mid 1990s).

Anonymous That Would Be Telling January 21, 2016 4:29 PM  

@48 WillBest:

I get that it is being proposed as entryism and as a means of control later but what I don't understand is why anybody would agree to anything that is a solution to a problem that can't exist, because at best its meaningless, and at worse it can backfire in some immediately unforeseen way (and its even worse when the backfire is foreseeable).

What about the immediate implicit "Nice project/job/career you've got there, it would be a shame if something were to happen to it." There's also an unending supply of white knights, right thinkers ever ready to signal virtue, and so on to support them. Even Ruby's matz conceded the principle, if not Coraline's particular CoC.

Blogger VD January 21, 2016 4:30 PM  

Also, why have I been seeing the use of the imaginary xhe pronoun around here lately?

If it is used here, it is used sarcastically.

Anonymous That Would Be Telling January 21, 2016 4:38 PM  

@57 VD:

Also, why have I been seeing the use of the imaginary xhe pronoun around here lately?

If it is used here, it is used sarcastically.


I, for one, found something sticking in my craw when I used "he" the first time to refer to Coraline, that's no man as I view us, XY though xhe may be, and she is right out (just look at any non-Fat Girl Angle Shot picture), xhe amuses me right now.

Blogger totenhenchen January 21, 2016 4:40 PM  

Social justice = guilty until proven guilty

Blogger totenhenchen January 21, 2016 4:40 PM  

Social justice = guilty until proven guilty

Blogger rycamor January 21, 2016 4:49 PM  

@10. dh January 21, 2016 1:59 PM

PHP is a project on the edge of a fork. There's been ongoing design and consensus problems. PHP7 is newly released, and if it fails to win over the user base, PHP5 code base may end up forked underleadership of a benevolent project dictator like Zeev.


I've been curious about this. From all practical perspectives PHP 7 seems like a big win. Fixes lots of legacy problems without messing too much with backward compatibility, big performance improvements... But it has been largely ignored.

What's your take on this?

Anonymous SoshulJustusWeirdo January 21, 2016 4:51 PM  

The original SJW wrote,"It also makes me reluctant to welcome and mentor new people wanting to contribute. I have said "no" to two people in the last few days, mostly because I am not sure whether I want them exposed to some of the things being said on the list."


What immediately crossed my mind is the use of "I" here-- This person clearly desires power. Sheit (my preferred non-gender term) already is acting as gate-keeping, protecting two precious snowflakes from BadPlace, because Sheit feels like protecting them from some of the things being said on the list.
Who gave Sheit this power, or did Sheit nobly and bravely take up the shield? It's kinda like Affirmative Action in a way-- these other two unknowns are judged (wrongly? rightly?) too weak to make it on their own, so they need special help. Sheit to the rescue!

Blogger Quadko January 21, 2016 5:14 PM  

"I noticed you free people are all picking cotton out in that field. That seems inefficient to my inexperienced eye.

To fix this, I propose you build me a nice house nearby and give me the power to horsewhip you all without provocation. I promise we'll have efficient cotton picking from then on.

Just sign right here at the bottom of this CoC."

Blogger pdwalker January 21, 2016 7:54 PM  

@62

Sheit is an excellent word choice to be the all inclusive gender pronoun.

It just rolls off the tongue and it easily pronounceable, unlike that other one, xhe, which just discriminates against people with pronunciation disabilities.

Anonymous redirect January 21, 2016 8:08 PM  

@43 But where can I go to get a more complete list of SJW names and online handles?

When I saw the Opal SJW CoC issue on GitHub I thought "now there's a nice list of SJW's I don't want to work with or hire and a few non-SJW's I might be interested in."

https://github.com/opal/opal/issues/941

A complete list would be hard, would take time, would change over time, and might not be worth the effort. A list of the worst big name SJW's would be easier. A number of criteria could get you some big lists, not complete but big.

SJW's giving SJW talks, speaking on SJW tracks at conferences.

SJW's starting or piling onto CoC issues on GitHub.

SJW's retweeting, high fiving each other, piling onto SJW threads, on social media.

I might decide on my scope and selection criteria after I'd decided on who and how I wanted to attack. Want to attack the worst most vocal SJW's? The worst most vocal SJW's are so easy to find no scripting is necessary. And if anyone attacks a big name SJW many lesser SJW's will come to their rescue and you'll have a nice list.

Discovering and sharing some stats on the SJW attack against OSS on GitHub might be interesting.

Anonymous namae nanka January 21, 2016 8:55 PM  

The CoM and the opposition to it reminded me of the 'stunned whores' poster at isteve.

Not only did I work at the NRC, my dad did too. They just laid off their programming division, CISTI. Know why? Took them over a year to produce a web page and even then it still wasn't done, they had to call in new consultants because the ones they had couldn't stand working there.

Know why? It was managed by a lesbian and staffed with homosexualists and feminists, all of whom hated each other. They laid off the whole department. Militant unionism was a big problem too, and diversity? Not only do they want gender and race diversity but - I swear this is true - there are posters there promoting the idea of diversity of abilities, that a team with some smart people, some middling people, and some dumb people will beat a team of all smart people. It's satanic.

Blogger lorenzstransky January 21, 2016 9:49 PM  

@65 This sounds like a project that could be hosted on github.

Blogger Unknown January 21, 2016 11:51 PM  

Well, Derek Rethans has decided to enlist the aid of one of the most toxic SJWs on Twitter, Randi Harper.
https://twitter.com/derickr/status/689925653530021892
He needs to be ejected from the group and permabanned forthwith otherwise Randi will detonate the group with her toxic brand of ultra-dramatic bullshit.

Blogger rycamor January 22, 2016 12:09 AM  

@68 That's a good sign. If Rethans has gotten Harper involved, it's a major tactical error. There are lots of FreeBSD users in the PHP community. And no one likes her.

Blogger Halifax Donair January 22, 2016 1:06 AM  

Is your child using PHP?

Blogger Halifax Donair January 22, 2016 1:12 AM  

@14 Until today, I thought that was Leonard from Bazinga with Bob Newhart.

Blogger rho January 22, 2016 1:15 AM  

I've been curious about this. From all practical perspectives PHP 7 seems like a big win. Fixes lots of legacy problems without messing too much with backward compatibility, big performance improvements... But it has been largely ignored.

I wouldn't say ignored, but certainly won't find widespread adoption until Drupal, Wordpress, Magento, RandomPHPMessageBoard have been proven to work and work well. When that happens, Cpanel and its ilk will offer it, and suddenly PHP 7 will be a roaring success, at least according to Netcraft.

The problem for PHP 7 is that there have been a multitude of solutions to address various shortcomings in PHP 4/5 which have become quite successful and popular. (See Wordpress, Magento, etc. above.) You'd end up writing Wordpress code in PHP, but it worked astonishingly well.

If you didn't like PHP 4/5's way of doing things, Zend itself gave you Zend Framework 1 & 2 so you can write PHP like you write Java, only it's somehow even worse than you'd think combining those two words would be. So you try one of the other three dozen frameworks until you find one that you like, and you discover they all were aware of PHP's limitations and sidestepped them in their own way.

If you're a full-stack, from-scratch developer, PHP 7 has enough good stuff that you should spin up a virtual machine and give it a whirl. Pick your OS and dependent services carefully, and hack away.

If not, in one, maybe two (maybe three) years, your favorite app or framework will be compatible. In five to eight years, they may even have a complete rewrite (or fork) that will take advantage of all of PHP 7's features. In two to four years, PHP 7 will be available by default in RHEL/CentOS.

All that said, PHP's biggest problem is that the server side is no longer where the important action is. It's not 1998--or even 2008--and the stateless Web is dead. You don't need 308K lines of PHP to run your site about knitting for cats. You need 2K lines of Javascript, 17 Javascript libraries, and 954 lines of nginx .conf that proxy calls to your Postgres and Redis data stores. (Your homework is to think about which of these two options is worse.)

I bring all this up to point out that Zend has bigger fish to fry than whether their mailing list members have hurt feelings. If you are technically minded at all, you're already aware that they have bigger fish to fry. If you are primarily concerned with hurt feelings, well, that's why you're arguing about a CoC in the fucking PHP RFC list.

(BTW, if you're an enterprising SJW, try to get the CoC adopted at the IETF. They have RFCs too! Be sure to Twatter about the microaggressions you receive!)

Blogger Halifax Donair January 22, 2016 1:19 AM  

@57

When I got my first tape drive in 1981 I was using xhe tapes.

PRESS PLAY ON TAPE #1

Anonymous WiseLogic January 22, 2016 1:31 AM  

PHP is a shit language anyway. The SJWs can have it. :)

http://eev.ee/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/

I was very excited that Microsoft open sourced .NET. Not so much when I heard that the .NET foundation had adopted the CoC.

And another trend I've noticed lately in the software world is people trying to change languages, frameworks and platforms to behave more like their favorite one. The ruby people want JavaScript syntax to look more like ruby. Microsoft opened the gates to open source and now the Visual Studio/ASP.NET platform is starting to look more and more like node.js. People are pushing for C# to add json literal syntax and a host of other features that add no real value except as their favorite style of syntactic sugar.

Maybe that isn't directly SJW related but it seems to me it's the same type of mindset in trying to change every institution to be more like they ones they value. And a lot of the people who are proposing things like that aren't even capable of doing the work to implement them.

I knew the Mozilla Foundation was going downhill even before they ousted Eich. Years ago they stopped caring about actually improving the browser, and started pissing away money on worthless projects and blabbering on about social issues and values. The only thought they did put into the browser was in trying to make it more like chrome, which wouldn't have been bad had they made it stable like chrome, but instead all they focused on was the UI. It was so pathetic and made them seem like such a bunch of pussies that I started referring to it as "chrome penis envy."

Just take a look at this thread for an example: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=678775
Instead of actually worrying about their browser consuming twice as much memory as chrome did, they were hellbent on removing the software version number from the about dialog, despite an overwhelming protest from their users.

I miss the good old days when one actually had to have some technical knowledge to use computers and the internet. That kept a lot of the idiots and the SJWs away. Seeing what things have become almost makes me want to unplug and go Amish.

OpenID Jack Amok January 22, 2016 1:36 AM  

The amount of toxic behaviour on this list is in my opinion unacceptable.

Your opinion has been duly noted. Also found to be petulant, asnine, and incompatile with the objectives of this project. You are expelled. Piss off.

PHP is a project on the edge of a fork.

PHP is a project that should be buried. In a mass, unmarked grave with no ceremony. And that has nothing to do with SJWs.

OpenID Jack Amok January 22, 2016 1:47 AM  

It doesn't matter! Fire!

Good thing I brought the big ammo can.

xhe amuses me right now.

Hey, xhey referred to xhemselves as SJW's first. Xhey meant it as a compliment, but it quickly became obvious how pathetic it was. Purple-haired land-whales who need Safe Spaces for protection from mild criticism - real warriors there. So now we use it as a jab, to remind xhem of pathetic xhey are.

Xhe fills the same bill.

Blogger rho January 22, 2016 2:04 AM  

PHP is a project that should be buried. In a mass, unmarked grave with no ceremony. And that has nothing to do with SJWs.

and

PHP is a shit language anyway. The SJWs can have it. :)

Blub is clearly better.

@74 WiseLogic wins the Most Points Missed award with And another trend I've noticed lately in the software world is people trying to change languages, frameworks and platforms to behave more like their favorite one

I'll put this in the most polite way I can; if you're absolutely negative about a language, it's a sure sign you only know a different one.

Anonymous WiseLogic January 22, 2016 3:13 AM  

@77 You must be a PHP programmer. I used to be at one point too, but I was annoyed with many of the design flaws that article lists, and there are a lot of them. A good programmer can get work done in any language, but some languages help you get work done and some you have to fight in order to get work done. If you like PHP, great, but are you sure that PHP isn't Blub?

I have no desire to change PHP into something it's not, I just won't use it. But I don't want C# to turn into JavaScript or something else either. I like JavaScript too, the good parts anyway, and I don't like people trying to turn JavaScript into coffeescript or ruby, or trying to force some weird class syntax onto it because they don't understand scope and closures.

You don't have to be polite, but don't insinuate that I only know one language just because I hate yours.

Blogger rho January 22, 2016 3:24 AM  

You don't have to be polite, but don't insinuate that I only know one language just because I hate yours.

Son, you have no idea.

You're free to be outraged, though.\

Anonymous CodeMonkey January 22, 2016 3:36 AM  

@78

Unless I'm mistaken, rho is the other resident Erlanger (aside from myself), making your accusation pretty hilarious.

OpenID Jack Amok January 22, 2016 4:29 AM  

I'll put this in the most polite way I can; if you're absolutely negative about a language, it's a sure sign you only know a different one.

And the fish belittles the water it swims in.

Funny though, what some people consider a language. I'd call it a pidgin myself. Still if you like it, by all means, use it.

But advocating it to others... well, for the non-programmers, PHP isn't really the 9mm of languages. More like the .38 Special. Ubiquitous in it's day, but no one can ever really point to a good reason why. It's just what someone else was using when a noob came along looking for something.

Blogger finndistan January 22, 2016 5:12 AM  

"if you done nothing before, you have no voice"

Why should one have a voice if they have done nothing before? What qualifies you? That you cut of your dick and drilled a whole? That you were born of color x? That you like to play with the carpet?

Don't contribute, but have a say? that is why these need to be expelled.

And that is why every project will need to have either a clear dictatorship in place, full power to The One, or a strict Code of Merit in place as soon as it starts, with, as vox says, the expulsion of any attempt to suggest a CoC. (code of cuckoldry?)

You write 6000 line of implemented code, you get one vote. You write 60.000 lines of implemented code, you get ten votes.


Anonymous Rona January 22, 2016 5:27 AM  

A comment in the earlier thread deserves to be spread around as a meme within the open-source community - Codes of Conduct are bringing back Corporate Culture to a community which in large part exists as a way to escape from corporate culture.

This is very good idea, anti-corp people will get behind it even if they would normally submit to CoC because "it's only about treating people with respect". Nice framing of issue.

As an aside, I'm uninterested in tech itself but I find Vox's post about entryism and thought-policing to be very useful and important, applicable to any organization or group that SJW wishes to invade.

I'm reading reading Aristole's Rhetoric now and want to get better at making persuasive arguments that convince rather than inform "regular" people.

If SJW wanted to implement thought-policing in my workplace it would be impossible to stop it, because it would be presented as "being nice to everybody, respecting others regardless of x..., non-discrimination" etc. all of which sound good and reasonable to regular people who don't understand leftists and their ideology.

This is being done on a mass scale at universities and state organizations my country (eastern Europe)ever since we joined EU but hasn't yet spread in private sector.

How to keep organization free of leftists and moving right is one of the most important questions for the alt-right.

-Rona

Blogger pdwalker January 22, 2016 5:44 AM  

@66 namae nanka,

link here for others who might enjoy reading the full comment.

Blogger rycamor January 22, 2016 9:30 AM  

@74. WiseLogic January 22, 2016 1:31 AM

PHP is a shit language anyway. The SJWs can have it. :)

http://eev.ee/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/


Ahh yes, the fractal guy. I've been reading him since he first came out, when he was complaining about all of PHP 4's shortcomings even though 5 had been out over a year. He's had to revise and shorten his mad harangue significantly over the years. Listen: I spent several years as a PHP dev, and I can't say that the things he waves his hands about currently have cost me even 1-2 hours *cumulative* in that time. Anyone who is confused by the "problems" he brings up is an idiot anyway.

PHP's one major purpose is to take database results and place them on the web, and vice-versa. At that it pretty much beats the other scripting languages, with their mish-mash of inconsistent libraries and drivers.

All the major scripting languages are horrid in some way, yet they still manage to be used productively. Ruby has a nice elegant structure, with some dog-ugly sigils and operators marring the landscape. I manage to work with Python, but it is bizarre to have a language where whitespace can introduce a MAJOR bug in your program. And let's not get started on their Apache webserver integration...

Blogger dh January 22, 2016 11:43 AM  

rycamor--

There's been some good comments here about PHP. It may be a shit language, it may be largely irrelevant, but it's still very widely used and some of the most powerful platforms on the web are written in it.

It's also outlasted major pushes from Google, MS, and Oracle to foist their own ever shifting products onto the public. Google has Go and Dart, MS has all of .NET, and Oracle has Java.

So even if it's not perfect, I'm happy to have a useful language that is 100% free and open source and unmoored to a computing deathstar.

Blogger rycamor January 22, 2016 2:02 PM  

@dh

Exactly. Honestly, the only other candidates I am happy with these days are Nginx+Lua. Keeping things simple and straightforward is obviously not a virtue in most of the web tech world anymore.

And all these people doing web programming acting as if their software should be a Taj Mahal of architecture... How much freaking code do you need to connect to a database and render some HTML? Or return JSON results? Overengineering is the death of the web.

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