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Sunday, January 03, 2016

A reaction to federal overreach

A family militia has taken over a federal wildlife building in Oregon.



The Mandate of Heaven has clearly been lost. Many, if not most, Americans no longer support the federal government, for a very wide variety of reasons.

This particular action is unlikely to be a successful challenge to federal authority, but it is even less likely to be the last. And as we saw in the case of the Soviet Union, all it takes is a single successful one before the whole system collapses.

A message from the Hammond family can be read on Oathkeepers. A more detailed account of events can be found here.

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138 Comments:

Anonymous SumDood January 03, 2016 7:46 AM  

More detailed account of the story:

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/01/03/full-story-on-whats-going-on-in-oregon-militia-take-over-malheur-national-wildlife-refuge-in-protest-to-hammond-family-persecution/

Blogger Mr.MantraMan January 03, 2016 7:59 AM  

These type of actions would be more effective if they were thought of as liberation, but instead conservatives being conned as they have been for decades by the frauds of Con Inc. will default back to the script of a Jimmy Stewart going to DC and straightening out that mess, then happy ending.

Hang the Cucks.

Blogger Skylark Thibedeau January 03, 2016 8:25 AM  

Amazing this happens just days before the executive orders to limit gun ownership go out.

Anonymous Godfrey January 03, 2016 8:34 AM  

Federal "authority" is illegitimate. It doesn't represent the will of the people. It represents the will of the oligarchs.

Undermine and ridicule it at every opportunity. It's already teetering. Push it every chance you get. All the Feds have left is raw force, and that's quickly running out of gas.

Hang the Cucks.

Blogger Remo - Vile Faceless Minion #99 January 03, 2016 9:11 AM  

I wonder if Obama has the balls to go full Waco on the place. It wouldn't surprise me. The federal government has never been judicious with its use of force. If they do that I expect the next occupation of a federal office to include hostages and possible execution of those hostages. Lets get this thing started already.

Blogger Chris Mallory January 03, 2016 9:27 AM  

@5 Of course Obama will go full Waco on these guys. He is a sociopath like every other president for the past 23 years.

Trying to hold an isolated static position is idiotic. They are just asking for the Feds to bring in armor and drones.

Anonymous Godfrey January 03, 2016 9:36 AM  

@6
"[Holding] an isolated static position is idiotic.

Exactly right. The real war is a non-violent cultural guerrilla war of ideas to undermine their system. That's a war they can't win.

Anonymous kfg January 03, 2016 10:12 AM  

"They are just asking for the Feds to bring in armor and drones."

Could well be.

"The real war is a non-violent cultural guerrilla war of ideas . . ."

Sooner or later those ideas have to result in doing something.

Blogger Dr. Mabuse January 03, 2016 10:13 AM  

@6 - I agree. But pace Godfrey, I don't think the non-violent approach will work. The "static" part is what's wrong. It's old-fashioned and nostalgic. Stolid yeomen standing in rows, holding their guns and waiting for a division of army tanks to mow them down is not going to work. What will work is what has worked elsewhere: IEDs, hit-and-run attacks against undefended targets, assassinations, ambushes, melting into the population. The U.S. military hasn't won a war yet that used those tactics against it.

Anonymous LurkingPuppy January 03, 2016 10:16 AM  

@6: Trying to hold an isolated static position is idiotic.

Could they be implementing the Flush-and-FFE tactic?

Anonymous kfg January 03, 2016 10:27 AM  

@9:John Brown's body lies a-mouldering in the grave,
His soul is marching on.

Remember the Alamo and don't underestimate the value of symbols.

Anonymous zen0 the Ephemeral January 03, 2016 10:38 AM  

@11 kfg

don't underestimate the value of symbols.

The Jihadis certainly don't. The 911 attack was nothing if not a symbolic triumph. America has never been the same.

Blogger David-093 January 03, 2016 10:44 AM  

Obama going full Waco on these people would be a disaster for him. Remember what Lind said? Violence only works if it serves the moral level, and right now the militia has the moral level thoroughly occupied. People hate the Feds. The state could kill these people, but if they did so violently it would cause a major backlash.

Anonymous VFM 9054 January 03, 2016 10:51 AM  

While clearly a group whose primary loyalty is not a state, but rather their ethnic, and cultural group, they seem to be bad a 4th gen war. I am hard pressed to see them coming out of this with a moral victory, unless the Feds nuke the place. Land use disputes, and the esoterica of the Hammonds being re-sentenced under domestic terrorist laws is unlikely to develop traction; but an armed group of angry white men taking over a federal building, and posting videos about how they are willing to die, is absolutely a thing the media will run with.

I don't have an issue with their ends, but their means. I don't think they prepared the moral battlespace well enough to do what they are trying. They forgot to ask the question, "how is this going to play in Peoria?"

While I don't know what they actually intend, I am sure that it is not to ensure that the Hammonds do not go back to prison, or they would have done different stuff. Abducting a judge's daughter, and using her as leverage would be much more effective than this stunt. Quietly assassinating the judge responsible for the original order, and letting the word, quietly, go around that that is why he is dead, would probably also be fairly effective. Hell, even a jailbreak, and then a demand for a pardon, or xyz bad thing happens, is likely to have been more effective.

So my big questions are, what is their actual goal? How does this move that forward? Did they consider the moral level at all? What does their logistical situation look like?

Blogger Ahazuerus January 03, 2016 11:00 AM  

"Trying to hold an isolated static position is idiotic. "

Who says they're trying to hold it? Maybe they know that people have to die to demonstrate the over-reactions of the government?

Know it or not, it's true.

Nobody wants to be the "idiot" that takes the first bullet, but after the collapse of empire, certain people who berated the idiots will be lauding them as heroes and martyrs.

All without a shred of irony.

Anonymous Susan January 03, 2016 11:03 AM  

A couple of thoughts after reading about this at Conservative Treehouse before coming here. Judge Hogan has a history of manipulation of cases that he has an obvious bias towards. He is quite the hard boiled and corrupt liberal, and should have retired years ago.

Geographically, as extremely rural as Eastern Oregon is, the militia actually did the smart thing taking over this building. Not only does it severely inconvenience the authorities by forcing them to drive for miles, and possibly hours to deal with them, it also keeps them close to the action should it erupt. It also prevents them from being boxed in by the Feds too if they had done this in town.

My only question here really is this. Does Obama finally have the spine to use a drone out in the open against American citizens now? Thanks to Vox, we know he has done it in the ME where it could be ignored generally by the media.

Blogger Emmett Fitz-Hume January 03, 2016 11:03 AM  

Reading the statement from Oathkeepers, regarding the Hammond Family's wishes, I don't see this ending well for Ammon Bundy.

Could it be a symbol? Sure. But they don't have the right mix of moral outrage and popular support. The Bundy Ranch was that combination, a pre-Waco, if you will. And the Feds backed down because someone calling shots had the sense enough to see it.

I don't see this happening the same way at all. Reason number one is, Drudge (last I checked) is barely mentioning it. So, a smaller, less mainstream network is spreading the word. Reason two is that the Hammond Family (by coercion, almost certainly) has repeatedly said that they don't want this, further undermining the moral high ground (from a psyche warfare/optics angle).

I think Ammon Bundy is going to be arrested if at all possible, denying him the martyrdom status a Ruby Ridge-like death would give him. And he will have tactically "stepped on his dick" as the Oathkeeper guy would say. And then, he will be irrelevant.

While it's a positive sign that these men and women answer these calls, this case is bad timing and thanks to a well played series of threats against the Hammond Family, less than optimal optics.

Anonymous Rhys O'Reilly January 03, 2016 11:07 AM  


Trying to hold an isolated static position is idiotic. They are just asking for the Feds to bring in armor and drones.


That would actually be a major victory. We're in the age of fourth gen war and one major tactic is propaganda. 300 dead men giving rise to untold more disillusioned men whilst further fracturing the thin lines holding the US together. What is the US government's long term strategy beyond these 300 men? Nuke everything outside the beltway? Create civil war 2.0?

Don't forget the obvious lesson of Vietnam. Win every military battle and lose the war because your 'enemy' wins the propaganda battle.

From outside the US it appears that America is at least two separate countries:

Republicans, conservatives, christians, those who live in flyover country

v

Democrats, leftists, those who live on the east and west coast, those who live in cities, those who celebrate diversity and multiculturalism

and these two countries are going to split soon.

Anonymous VFM 9054 January 03, 2016 11:13 AM  

If I were the powers that be, I'd figure that the last possible thing that I want is a firefight or to drop bombs on their heads. That ends badly for everybody. So I need to deescalate the situation, while still maintaining the upper hand, and controlling the battlespace. So, first things first, in the name of national security, I'd ban the media. And make arrests for obstruction of justice, and anything else I need to in order to make that stick. Second, I start trying to figure out their logistical situation. How much food, fuel, and ammo do they have? Can I make them cold, hungry, and tired? Can I play really loud music to keep them from sleeping well? Are there windows? Can I break them and let the snow in? It's going to be just barely over freezing for the next week. Third, I figure it's a siege, and all I have to do is keep them penned up, and keep them from being resupplied, until they decide to surrender.

FedGov needs to make them look pathetic, and like stupid losers. Going mano y mano is the last thing it wants if that's the goal.

Blogger Eclecticity January 03, 2016 11:20 AM  

Idiots. The government should try something different for a change and not flush them out with guns a blazing. Wait them out. State of siege baby. No one goes in, no one comes out. Eventually they will get hungry. They are looking for a fight. Don't give them one. Move the operations of whatever was being done in the building down the street for the time being. Let the right wing nuts be. They'll get hungry eventually, or they'll starve themselves in a U.S. Government building. What a way to go. Over-reacting is the worst thing the government can do. Or just ignore them. What if some right wing whack jobs took over a government building and no body cared. In fact at this second I have stopped caring. That's that.

Anonymous Anonymous January 03, 2016 11:29 AM  

Not sure how this plays out, but one possibility is the militia plans a 'siege of alesia' situation (with opposite results). Have the feds besiege them, then, serving as a call to arms, have the Feds besieged by others. The Feds were almost trapped at the Bundy ranch...they were given a gauntlet to run...and took it.

DM

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 January 03, 2016 11:32 AM  

Leftists don't want to listen when we tell them that we had a federalist system for a reason.

Blogger Eclecticity January 03, 2016 11:33 AM  

Idiots. The government should try something different for a change and not flush them out with guns a blazing. Wait them out. State of siege baby. No one goes in, no one comes out. Eventually they will get hungry. They are looking for a fight. Don't give them one. Move the operations of whatever was being done in the building down the street for the time being. Let the right wing nuts be. They'll get hungry eventually, or they'll starve themselves in a U.S. Government building. What a way to go. Over-reacting is the worst thing the government can do. Or just ignore them. What if some right wing whack jobs took over a government building and no body cared. In fact at this second I have stopped caring. That's that.

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 January 03, 2016 11:44 AM  

@23


Unlikely. the Obama admin already has a credibility problem. They are already feeling a little sensitive to comments that they don't actually have a handle on things. If anything, this is likely to prompt an overreaction.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother January 03, 2016 11:53 AM  

The likelihood of there being federal provocateurs inside is approaching 99.999%. The same people we suspected of being Feds at the Bundy Ranch are inside, Ryan Payne and Blaine Cooper. We also have Jon Ritzheimer in there as well, which is very bad. He is a stick of dynamite just waiting to go off. The timing couldn't be better for Obama's gun control regulations and public announcement. It's almost as if it were planned that way...

Blogger tz January 03, 2016 12:08 PM  

Trying to hold an isolated static position is idiotic. They are just asking for the Feds to bring in armor and drones.

Didn't anyone else read the 4GW Manual? I'd love Lind's take on this. I'm surprised I'm the first to bring this up.

But they can't win on the physical level. They chose an unused Government building in some remote place that interferes with no one and are in effect saying "Molon Labe". And the Feds have a very long road down what is much like a canyon which if supporters (reinforcements) arrive things could get interesting.

The mental level is dividing the right into the cucks and the reals even more, and the moral level is exposing even more corruption - it is Obama's federal government late in his term of tyranny v.s. veterans, Ranchers, and other "salt of the earth" types, unlike Clinton/Reno during their honeymoon against a creepy cult.

TheConservativeTreehouse is Trump Central - I'm surprised it was covered thoroughly and properly there, so I think this is deeper and has more legs.

Anonymous ArmyStu January 03, 2016 12:11 PM  

Most Americzns pay their taxes. Most vote. Practically no one denies the authority of the federal government, the U.s. Army is all volunteer.

I'd say any claim that most DONT support the federal government borders on lunacy...and this is why no support for the claim was offered in this article.

Blogger Nate January 03, 2016 12:15 PM  

"Most Americzns pay their taxes. Most vote. Practically no one denies the authority of the federal government, the U.s. Army is all volunteer."

They pay taxes out of fear. Nothing else. Yes the US army is volunteer but that is about loving the nation and the people... not the government. Most of them don't like the government much.

Army /= Government.

Lots of people have huge problems with the federal government abuse of authority.

Blogger Nate January 03, 2016 12:23 PM  

" Ranchers, and other "salt of the earth" types, unlike Clinton/Reno during their honeymoon against a creepy cult."

a creepy cult...over a 100 dollar federal tax stamp. that totally makes it better.

Blogger Raziel Walker January 03, 2016 12:23 PM  

Read the full article, sounds like some good oldfashioned government power abuse by SJWs, looking forward to the left spin version of the story.

Anonymous Anonymous January 03, 2016 12:24 PM  

These guys are retarded attention whores. I wouldn't be surprised if at least one was a .gov stooge.

Anonymous ArmyStu January 03, 2016 12:27 PM  

Nate,
No one wants to pay taxes.but if they didn't support the Fed, there would be a huge number of tax protester. And there are not. The claim that MOST don't support the Federal Govt is the opinion of a blow hard, and so inaccurate that you have to really dismiss as useless any other unsupported observation by the people making the claim.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother January 03, 2016 12:40 PM  

Armystu,

Right, and none of your friends voted for Nixon either?

Blogger Emmett Fitz-Hume January 03, 2016 12:51 PM  

@32

Fear of the Federal Government's power, whether it's the barrel of a gun or a bureaucrat's ability to leave your life in ruins, is a real, palpable thing.

Paying taxes because you fear the consequences, while monetary support, is not the same as moral support. It is not reliable support for the Federal Government but prone to emotional instability: fears change and anger inflames.

I still believe this instance will not end favorably. But I do believe there has been a sea change since the Ruby Ridge-Waco era. The US is a powder keg, I just don't believe this spark is close enough to set everything off.

Anonymous Godfrey January 03, 2016 12:57 PM  

@27

Once the Federal government loses 33% of the population it's done. It won't take a majority. I see it every day. Even those dependent on the beast hate it.


Most "Americans" pay their taxes out of fear.

I doubt most vote. If so, they hold their nose while doing so.

And the "volunteer" army has volunteers because the young and illiterate can't find jobs anywhere else.


Anonymous Circle Je January 03, 2016 12:58 PM  

Apparently a couple of these pathetic treasonous brainless lowlife scumbags sprung from Cliven "Let Me Tell You About the Negro" Bundy.

I would guess 100% are Trump supporters.

Frankly, I think the federal government should surround the place, shoot them all dead, and bomb it just to make sure. This is basically an attempt at armed insurrection against the US. If 150 Muslims did something like this, what would the chances be, you think, of a peaceful resolution? What would the reaction from Republicans right wingers be -- would they be calling these guys heroes for freedom and liberty standing up to the evil federal government? Nope. They'd be called criminals and terrorists. But they're white and Christian, so they won't be. They'll probably all get off with a slap on the wrist too, because we wouldn't want to offender the highly sensitive White Christian Terrorist demographic.

Fuck these guys and fuck anyone who even slightly agrees with them. They want to start a Civil War. I'm down. Kill the assholes and let's be done with this already. I am SO sick of this fucking yee-haw redneck good old boy shit.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother January 03, 2016 1:00 PM  

Bold words from the keyboard, Circle Jerk.

Anonymous cheddarman January 03, 2016 1:00 PM  

These guys may have already lost at the moral level by going on the offensive. I am sure Obama will take it personally and crush them like bugs And use this as an excuse to clamp the lid down harder.

OpenID Jack Amok January 03, 2016 1:03 PM  

ArmyStu, you don't understand the mechanics of a preference cascade. Over 70% of adult Americans consider the federal government illegitimate. But there's no consensus on what to replace it with. So, with most Americans being reasonable people at heart, we put up with the crap that we've got for now, because for now, it's better than chaos. So it all looks more or less fine, if you're inclined to see it that way. But the instant a significant number of people believe a better alternative exists... poof. All gone.

And just to be clear, there are two ways to get to a "better" alternative. One is the alternatives could be more popular. Two is the current situation could keep getting worse. And on the Gripping Hand, you could have a convergence of both.

Anonymous Trucker Neil January 03, 2016 1:04 PM  

My goodness...if a bunch of black folks did something like this, the National Guard would already be on the way, with air support.

And the right wing would be talking about "thugs" they are. "Troublemakers," as Trump said when he had his goons beat that BLM protester up. But they're white. So they're "patriots." You watch, you listen. The GOP, from Trump on down, is gonna gushing with masturbatory excitement about how awesome sedition is, when it's performed by angry white guys.

I hope there is an armed response. Give these assholes the martyrs they want. Then it will incourage more of them to become suicide bombers. And eventually we can kill them all off. Problem solved. The world would be better off without them. Violent idiots.

Anonymous Godfrey January 03, 2016 1:05 PM  

@32

Support for the government is eroding Stu. And every day it erodes a little more. We've been working really hard at eroding its legitimacy, but we couldn't have done it without the help of the oppressive government itself. All your "service" was for nothing Stu. Tough to take I bet.

Blogger clk January 03, 2016 1:10 PM  

@33... one of the greats.. old tricky Dick... we need a few more like him. Ted Cruz kind of reminds me of him...

@32 ... to be fair, in the world of most of us ilk and our limited social circles mistrust of the gov is a 99% given...in the general population, especially those on the dole j suspect support is a litte higher.

@31 ... ABSOLUTELY.. This is a setup and Bundy et al have fallen right into it.. this will lead to no good result and only support a claim for more gun control...

Anonymous Godfrey January 03, 2016 1:10 PM  

@40

Yeah... let's put down those uppity whites. How dare they question the divinity of the federal government. We got to show them who's boss. They should shut up and get back to paying taxes and having their saving debased by the banker cabal. All hail the 0.001%!

Blogger tz January 03, 2016 1:10 PM  

The problem is that the Federal Government was not satisfied with taxes, or creating a bunch of dependent poor people. The crony welfare queens are worse, and there is not enough wealth that can really be created to redeem or pay off all the debt which has been accumulated. Either a deflationary or direct default is coming. But then how do you feed the masses of human cattle when all you have are worthless IOUs for bails of hay which was never grown in the first place. They can manipulate the currency, interest rates, and the Federal debt only so far. It is all based on faith in Mammon holding together the house of cards without nails. That God will fail and it won't be pretty.

(@Nate - clarification, David Koresh and his followers had every right to be left alone, and a petty tax stamp is a stupid thing to have started it - much like Ruby Ridge documented at theconservativetreehouse - yet their heterodox beliefs made them creepy - yet I would defend the right to be creepy since this is America - I don't defend SJWs since I can't figure out what their senseless screeching is supposed to accomplish and violates most noise ordinances).

Blogger Emmett Fitz-Hume January 03, 2016 1:17 PM  

I'm finally seeing smaller headlines at Drudge (top-left corner) but still nothing at Instapundit (unless I missed it). I find this odd, since both are usually right on top of things.

I've been expecting to see something on Drudge for about 2 days. They're still focused on the Saudi Arabian executions.

Blogger Aeoli Pera January 03, 2016 1:17 PM  

Aeoli has all the answers.

Amazing this happens just days before the executive orders to limit gun ownership go out.

This is not controlled opposition.

Trying to hold an isolated static position is idiotic. They are just asking for the Feds to bring in armor and drones.

Maybe. Lind is a very smart guy but we're in uncharted waters here. The obvious thing is that their lives hang on the public's opinion.

All the Feds have left is raw force, and that's quickly running out of gas.

You are wrong here. They are running out of moral high ground, but they still employ plenty of trigger pullers who will still follow the next order or two. This demographic will be subject to change.

"The real war is a non-violent cultural guerrilla war of ideas . . ."

Sooner or later those ideas have to result in doing something.


Precisely. But that will take care of itself as money runs out, and hopefully people can be trained out of their instinct to organize and centralize.

Obama going full Waco on these people would be a disaster for him

Obama could eat a baby on national television and it would barely affect the voting at the next election. This is a symptom of a huge divide.

My goodness...if a bunch of black folks did something like this, the National Guard would already be on the way, with air support.

Quite irrelevant.

Blogger The Other Robot January 03, 2016 1:17 PM  

CNN got something correct?

White militia are not a threat like black protesters

Blogger clk January 03, 2016 1:21 PM  

And just what do you see as a replacement for the federal government....? 50 little countries, all with their own army, trade laws, currency... little taliban like Christian countries...

No the basic idea behind a federal government is sound... but what has happened post ww2 and especially last 20 years indicates a strong need for reform.

Maybe the reform is found at the end of a barrel but i dont really think so.... its on the ground, grass roots and using the tools of your enemy against them... christians got to be christians ..and if they would look around, stop arguing about martin luther and the pope, embraced their similarities, they would see as a group they could wield great influence and be a force for change. > IMHO

Anonymous Godfrey January 03, 2016 1:23 PM  

@40

The military is already busy blowing up black and brown people in the Middle East and Africa. Or haven't you noticed? Oh, I'm sorry, I bet you haven't.

Blogger Trump/Automatthew 2016 January 03, 2016 1:23 PM  

And just what do you see as a replacement for the federal government....? 50 little countries, all with their own army, trade laws, currency... little taliban like Christian countries...

Predictably, CLK chimes in to exhibit xir complete inability to understand the situation, the difficulties, or even the conversation.

Blogger The Other Robot January 03, 2016 1:24 PM  

Obama could eat a baby on national television and it would barely affect the voting at the next election. This is a symptom of a huge divide.

I am surprised that they have not figured out yet that the way to demoralize traditional Americans and keep they away from the polls in 2016 is to come out and demonstrate that the Moon landings were a hoax.

I am sure the Left would be up for anything ...

Blogger The Other Robot January 03, 2016 1:28 PM  

@35: Most "Americans" pay their taxes out of fear.

Most Americans pay their taxes because they have no choice. It is taken out as you work.

Now, convince a lot of people to stop engaging in taxable economic activity and you might be on to something.

Blogger Aeoli Pera January 03, 2016 1:34 PM  

I wonder if Obama has the balls to go full Waco on the place. It wouldn't surprise me.

You have failed to understand rabbit psychology.

I don't have an issue with their ends, but their means. I don't think they prepared the moral battlespace well enough to do what they are trying. They forgot to ask the question, "how is this going to play in Peoria?"

Good question. To give you some indication, my mom was very interested in the story and showed grudging sympathy for them. She is an early adopter in Peoria. I agree with you in the particulars, but a great deal of groundwork has been set for them beforehand.

These guys are retarded attention whores. I wouldn't be surprised if at least one was a .gov stooge.

It's unfortunate, but attention whoring can almost be considered a martial virtue in this day and age.

What is the US government's long term strategy beyond these 300 men? Nuke everything outside the beltway?

I hate to be the one to break this to you...

That is exactly the long-term plan, and they've said as much as a matter of public record. Maybe not nukes but they want to reduce the earth's population to a few million and they're looking for excuses.

Anonymous KoranBurningFaggot January 03, 2016 1:39 PM  

The conservative treehouse article linked by #1 shows cargo cult majik dirt thinking by the government.

"In a hidden public record she found a study that was done by the FWS in 1975. The study showed that the “no use” policies of the FWS on the refuge were causing the wildlife to leave the refuge and move to private property. The study showed that the private property adjacent to the Malheur Wildlife Refuge produced 4 times more ducks and geese than the refuge did. It also showed that the migrating birds were 13 times more likely to land on private property than on the refuge. When Susie brought this to the attention of the FWS and refuge personnel, her and her family became the subjects of a long train of abuses and corruptions."

If we only take over the private land it will be productive public land.

OpenID sigbouncer January 03, 2016 1:42 PM  

@34 Fitz-Humme - "Fear"

Fear is not real. It's the product of the thoughts one creates. Danger is very real, but fear is a choice.

OpenID sigbouncer January 03, 2016 1:50 PM  

Our Federal Government's best attribute to it's people is their support of the US Military and it's heroes. They do not want to face the wrath of it's people if they go up against the Oathkeepers and start killing US Military heroes of War and Veterans who served their country honorably. All over a land management dispute.

The "terrorist" label won't stick with the honorable men and women of Oathkeepers who already served. And they know this.

Anonymous kfg January 03, 2016 1:51 PM  

"50 little countries . . .?"

New New England. Old New England with NY, NJ and PA.
Dixie.
Chicagoland.
Texas, which will likely expand to include OK and KS.
New New Mexico. CA, AZ, NV and NM
NW, which will have a civil war between the liberal coast the conservative inland.

UT, CO, NE and the Dakotas pretty well fucked.

Yes, at least a couple of them would be likely to declare as officially Christian.

Anonymous Passinthough January 03, 2016 1:59 PM  

For those with eyes to see, the Hammond case demonstrates the the death of the "rule of law". The federal government is corrupt. There is no justice. God doesn't tolerate corruption and neither should we. The games afoot. God is preparing to do a hard reboot. Are you in tune with God? Are prepared to answer the call when it comes?

Blogger Nate January 03, 2016 2:03 PM  

"Fuck these guys and fuck anyone who even slightly agrees with them. They want to start a Civil War. I'm down. Kill the assholes and let's be done with this already. I am SO sick of this fucking yee-haw redneck good old boy shit."


What the hell is someone with this sort of opinion doing commenting on a blog like this?


Go back to the dailykos faggot.

Blogger Were-Puppy January 03, 2016 2:04 PM  

Internet fight club. Smell their fear.

Blogger Aeoli Pera January 03, 2016 2:05 PM  

Most Americzns pay their taxes. Most vote.

If by "most" you mean "half of the eligible population, which is perhaps 1/3", you're correct. Voting for the president doesn't count anyway unless it's Trump.

But what you should be wondering is, how many men 18-45 vote and pay taxes? Have you checked the employment-population numbers? How about the white male suicide rate?

Practically no one denies the authority of the federal government, the U.s. Army is all volunteer.

Most people join the army for the money, and the volunteers are not thrilled about marching around in red heels.

Bold words from the keyboard, Circle Jerk.

With enemies like these, who needs morale officers?

These guys may have already lost at the moral level by going on the offensive. I am sure Obama will take it personally and crush them like bugs And use this as an excuse to clamp the lid down harder.

Maybe. Doesn't matter, the school shootings will continue until morale improves

(H/T PolPot, wish I could claim that one.)

Anonymous Man of the Atom January 03, 2016 2:06 PM  

@57. kfg January 03, 2016 1:51 PM

"50 little countries . . .?"

UT, CO, NE and the Dakotas pretty well fucked.


Don't count out ND and SD quite yet. Quiet, yet hardy.

Anonymous kfg January 03, 2016 2:07 PM  

@Nate: "What the hell is someone with this sort of opinion doing commenting on a blog like this?"

Forgetting which side actually likes to play with guns.

Blogger Emmett Fitz-Hume January 03, 2016 2:15 PM  

@55

Fear is also the Mind-killer, Mister Muad'ib. Thanks for the hot tip.

Blogger Chris Mallory January 03, 2016 2:16 PM  

Even if these guys are trying to fight 4th Gen, a static position in the middle of no where is the wrong way to go about it. The guerrilla has to make the powers that be over react and cause non combatant casualties. Forcing the Feds to drop a Hellfire on Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco is how you fight 4th Gen, not letting them bomb you in the middle of Bumfreak, Oregon.

The State loves burning anyone who stands up to them, Gordon Kahl, Bob Matthews, Waco, and Christopher Dorner. They even helped bomb and burn out a group of uppity blacks in Philly back in 1985.

Those guys in the ranger station would have done more by spreading out over Oregon and California and pulling 200 Chris Dorners.

Anonymous kfg January 03, 2016 2:17 PM  

@62:

Not counting them out at all and taking their quiet hardiness into account. It's part of what makes them not fit politically into any of the other territories, but, geographically speaking, they're in a difficult position to go it on their own.

Blogger The Other Robot January 03, 2016 2:17 PM  

Forcing the Feds to drop a Hellfire on Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco is how you fight 4th Gen, not letting them bomb you in the middle of Bumfreak, Oregon.

How about the Castro?

Anonymous KoranBurningFaggot January 03, 2016 2:21 PM  

Of course Obama will go full Waco on these guys. He is a sociopath like every other president for the past 23 years.

If the Feds went full Waco people would be sniping feds in all 50 states. Even better leaving poisoned buckets of FKC in federal buildings smoking areas.

an armed group of angry white men taking over a federal building, and posting videos about how they are willing to die

If they are really willing to die start sniping the news anchors that lie. That and the leftists politicians + less guarded families. Leftists hardly breed so you can wipe out the entire line easily. This is one of those in for a penny in for a pound situations, once you cross the line everything else is free.

Can I break them and let the snow in? It's going to be just barely over freezing for the next week

The people in that area can probably handle freezing weather outdoors far better than the feds if there is a single saboteur. Real men can camp in a tent with deep snow & below zero sleeping bags, but I only ever meet one other gay guy that would tent camp in the woods in summer and he was ex military also.

"Most Americzns pay their taxes. Most vote. Practically no one denies the authority of the federal government

Most Americans don't pay their taxes it gets taken out of their paychecks, oh wait that's only for whites and Asians, unless you are talking about people that pay cigarette taxes like Eric Garner. White people join the army to pay for college since their taxes only pays for black/brown that are not smart enough to be allowed into the Army but get scholarships to college.

Anonymous kfg January 03, 2016 2:22 PM  

@65: "Those guys in the ranger station would have done more by spreading out over Oregon and California and pulling 200 Chris Dorners."

After you have your Harper's Ferry and Alamo. They aren't there to win, or even fight, the war.

They're there to inspire it.

Anonymous Jill January 03, 2016 2:24 PM  

This whole situation will no doubt be doused, as it's a very small (metaphorical) fire, and very bad for business. The business of big gov't, that is.

Blogger Noah B #120 January 03, 2016 2:37 PM  

"No one wants to pay taxes..."

Not only do I not WANT to pay taxes, but the act of paying them makes me feel more guilty than anything else I do.

Blogger FP January 03, 2016 2:41 PM  

Surprised it has escalated since last I saw on Friday they were going to turn themselves in on Monday and they didn't want any help. Now they're saying the Feds have been pressuring the whole family.

The case is pure idiocy from the Feds. Even a west of the cascades suburbanite can see that. But then I saw as a kid what the greenies did to the timber industry here in Oregon over the damn spotted owl. The eco nuts don't even want to let them clean out dead trees from forest fires. Now its no coal trains to the shipping yards and no LNG shipping terminals either.

Blogger FP January 03, 2016 2:43 PM  

Video feed from Saturday:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBBJe7FmRXI

Anonymous Lawyer Guy January 03, 2016 2:44 PM  

"The U.S. military hasn't won a war yet that used those tactics against it."

The Nazi Youth used in Werwolf after WWII were beaten down quickly. Of course, American forces gave field hearings in front of an officer followed by execution. That makes it less fun to be a terrorist.

Brits/Canadians doubled down to include reprisal arty strikes on towns. Famously, they held POWs as slave labor for many years after the war to avoid trained soldiers entering Werwolf units and were imposing collective reprisal fines as late as 48.

Blogger Noah B #120 January 03, 2016 2:48 PM  

On another note, I am really disgusted by Stewart Rhodes' response to this situation and his logic for not supporting the Hammonds, i.e., they're saying they don't want help (under government coercion) so we shouldn't give it to them.

If he thinks these are unfavorable conditions for a victory and that withdrawal is a better strategy, even though it sucks not to come to the aid of the Hammonds, he should say that instead.

Anonymous KoranBurningFaggot January 03, 2016 2:49 PM  

Paying taxes Latina's 21 illegitimate crack babies have costlier cell phones than I do.

My goodness...if a bunch of black folks did something like this, the National Guard would already be on the way, with air support.

Philly home of the Move house had 5 cops killed on duty in one year and didn't get that much, or the recent riots in Baltimore for the heroin dealer felon with an illegal knife that died. Look at the WHITE GIRL BLEED A LOT site and see videos of blacks doing far worse.

bombers. And eventually we can kill them all off. Problem solved. The

The way to win is to shut off the power to a leftist city right before the end of the month so they can't use food stamps. Rifle rounds can shut down a step down/up transformer. This will rise the free stuff army to be 20x worse than the massive chimp outs on 10-12-2013 when the food stamp system went down for 8 hours in 16 states. Many leftists die verse cities have hours of bumper to bumper traffic even without caltrops.

CNN got something correct? White militia are not a threat like black protesters

The property will probably be better maintained than when govt affirmative action hires take care of it

Blogger FP January 03, 2016 2:55 PM  

Sipseystreet blog thinks its provocateurs:

http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2016/01/no-more-free-wacos-national-three.html

Blogger tz January 03, 2016 3:18 PM  

@77 - the only good thing there was the mention and link to http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2013/04/tyrants-beware-4th-generation-warfare.html

John Brown drew first blood at Harper's ferry. Here Ammon Bundy and friends are occupying an unlocked building and are peaceful. They are armed, but in ranchland most people are. Police are armed, but when they gather at a conference with their guns on their persons, no one calls that an "armed protest".

Otherwise those 3%ers and OathKeepers are vegetating:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaWU1CmrJNc

Note: I don't want a new "civil war", i.e. a War of Blue-State Aggression, but expect one eventually, perhaps soon even if this isn't "Bull Run", and am positioned accordingly. "Victoria" is more prophecy than fiction.

One thing I point out is the parallels between Ferguson, MO and the Boston Massacre. If you look at the famous propaganda woodcut, you see a bunch of (brave, peace-keeping) Red-Coats firing on peaceful citizens. John "facts are stubborn things" Adams defended them and they were found "Not Guilty" because it was a rioting mob throwing rocks inside the snow-balls. But were the "RedCoats" the peace officers, or the "swarms of agents harassing our people and eating out their substance"? Was Daren Wilson a traffic ticket tax collector? Or a brave peace-keeper? As Sam Bushman of libertyroundtable.com says, he who owns the media makes the news. The internet is a game-changer.

If nothing else, it will sort out the cuckservatives and RINOs. And the limousine libertarians that like to write thousand page treatises but won't fight for liberty.

Blogger Curtis January 03, 2016 3:24 PM  

@75. Noah B #120

Stewart is not withdrawing OK'ers support for the Hammond's. He is just following up on the Hammond's wish. The moral imperative IS on the Hammond's. They could say themselves to the world that they are being coerced, and despite that coercion, will make a stand regardless, just like the Bundy's did. The fact is, the Hammond's are willingly, conscientiously, making a decision to NOT take a stand. And if grandma doesn't want me to walk her across the street, carry her groceries, and mow her lawn, why force it? The moral high ground of the ORIGINAL intent has been lost. And the Hammond's have no one to blame but themselves because they REFUSED to stand up on the moral high ground. These other guys HI-JACKED the narrative and went out on their own saying, if the Hammond's don't want our help, then we'll force the issue.

This is not my condoning of the feds, or their usurpation of Art. 1, Sec. 8: Cl. 17. Appearances are everything. Motives and moral narratives are everything. Sympathy of the people are everything… especially from the locals. Whatever sympathy of the locals they had, it is now gone. Squandered in rash thinking, as in… if these local people do not want our help, then we’ll force it on them and go out on our own. They have hi-jacked the Hammond cause. They have used the Hammond cause as an excuse to take over the fed compound. My question is… why did they wait for the Hammond cause? They could have taken over any fed compound in anywhere USA at any time before the Hammond’s in defense of Art. 1, Sec. 8: Cl. 17. You going to tell me that these guys needed the Hammond’s as an excuse?

The Idaho 3%, and Oregon 3% have disowned this whole fiasco, as have the locals. As for taking over the fed compound, just stupid. At the worst, it is just another Waco waiting to happen. Think the locals are going to come in and provide perimeter over-watch of the compound? Think the locals are going to march en-mass through the local/state/fed perimeter and encircle the fed compound as security?

Being one of the many veterans kicked out of Ok'ers by a witch hunt for radicals, I have my beef with OK'ers. But, I am afraid that Rhodes is correct on this one. This is not it. It will happen, but it will not happen here. And it certainly is not going to do a damn thing for the ranchers and Art. 1, Sec. 8: Cl 17 of the constitution. And no one will say, "Remember the federal wildlife building in Oregon!"

Blogger Noah B #120 January 03, 2016 3:27 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Noah B #120 January 03, 2016 3:33 PM  

You make some good points, Curtis. I still have mixed feelings, because I know the reality is that the Hammonds are being coerced and are too afraid to speak up. If grandma says she doesn't want help while there's a strange man holding a gun to her, I'm probably still going to be inclined to intervene. However, after reading Vanderboegh's position, perhaps this case isn't as clear cut as I originally thought.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother January 03, 2016 3:34 PM  

Noah B.,

This is a federally influenced operation from start to finish. Did you read the Sipsey Street post? Payne and Cooper are feds. Please read Lind's 4GW Handbook. The occupiers have lost the moral high ground and the support of the Hammonds and the locals. No Fort Sumters.

Here are the guiding principles of the iii%:

http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2014/06/a-brief-three-percent-catechism.html

"These four principles -- moral strength, physical readiness, no first use of force and no targeting of innocents -- are the hallmarks of the Three Percent ideal. Anyone who cannot accept them as a self-imposed discipline in the fight to restore the Founders' Republic should find something else to do and cease calling themselves a "Three Percenter."

Blogger Curtis January 03, 2016 3:52 PM  

I have mixed feelings about this too Noah. I am not 100% in disagreement with these guys. But I don't think they have played this thing out smartly. This is not an act of prevention. It is more of an act of a tantrum that is not going to resolve anything.

And you make a good point about grandma. But, the reality is, that the Hammond's are not grandma, but grown men who have made a conscious decision, despite the threats and coercion, to not stand up. And they do not have a gun at their head, just the threat. If they don't have the will to take a moral stand to the threat, why would I give my life for them?

Blogger Aeoli Pera January 03, 2016 3:58 PM  

Vanderboegh gives great context but gives no reason for why he thinks it's government provocateurs. Anyway, it's completely off-script, like the president had claimed military power is much weaker than perceived. Maybe he's got perspective on this but from here, no sale.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother January 03, 2016 4:01 PM  

Aeoli Pera,

The government provocateurs are Ryan Payne and Blaine Cooper, who were also agitating at the Bundy Ranch. Ryan has been whispering in Ammon's ear for two years.

Blogger Curtis January 03, 2016 4:06 PM  

@84

Ryan Payne : http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/search?q=Ryan+Payne

https://www.oathkeepers.org/?s=Ryan+Payne

Blogger Aeoli Pera January 03, 2016 4:10 PM  

The government provocateurs are Ryan Payne and Blaine Cooper, who were also agitating at the Bundy Ranch. Ryan has been whispering in Ammon's ear for two years.

Could easily be a personality thing. But I might still have to change my mind:

"Regardless, this type of action, before the nation is primed and ready for apocalypse will often prove counter-productive. Unless the underlying conditions are highly K-selecting, too much violence or threat in the presence of free resources will precipitate a movement toward the safety of rabbitry, just as too much rabbitry in the presence of resource restriction drives a population toward K.

We saw this with the Oklahoma City Bombing. Clinton used the image of a white military man who associated with militias and bombed a building in the presence of an economic turnaround, to drive the nation leftward."

http://www.anonymousconservative.com/blog/ranchers-backfires-terrorism-and-cliven-bundys-sons/

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother January 03, 2016 4:11 PM  

Aeoli, we checked into Ryan Payne's claims of being a US Army Ranger. He is no such thing. There is no record at Ranger School of him ever attending. He is a fraud.

Anonymous KoranBurningFaggot January 03, 2016 4:16 PM  

expect one eventually, perhaps soon even if this isn't "Bull Run", and am positioned accordingly. "Victoria" is more prophecy than fiction

I know a STR8 married woman prepper that purposely planted hemlock. She might not be that crazy.

Blogger Aeoli Pera January 03, 2016 4:16 PM  

I kicked "SEALs" out of the strip club on a weekly basis and I doubt any of them were government agents. They were just dumbass liars.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother January 03, 2016 4:18 PM  

Aeoli, he has been suspected of this for several years.

Blogger Aeoli Pera January 03, 2016 4:21 PM  

I'm not claiming you're wrong, maybe you (or Mike V) have a sense of the situation that you're unable to communicate, I'm saying I have seen zero reason to believe you're right (except the AC quote above). He could just be a scumbag.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother January 03, 2016 4:22 PM  

I'm with Oath Keepers.

Blogger Aeoli Pera January 03, 2016 4:24 PM  

Scumbags are a dime a dozen and I have no doubt he'd snitch for the government in a heartbeat, but is he such a high-functioning scumbag that he can follow through on this sort of assignment without blabbing or getting distracted?

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother January 03, 2016 4:26 PM  

Aeoli,

That is what we don't know. At a minimum, he is an informant, worst case is he is a federal agent.

Blogger Aeoli Pera January 03, 2016 4:43 PM  

I still got nothing on this fucker. Do you have any video of this guy or something? I don't need much to work with.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother January 03, 2016 4:47 PM  

http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2014/05/stolen-valor-ryan-payne-exposed-as-fraud.html

Blogger Aeoli Pera January 03, 2016 4:51 PM  

Found one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79xKxWbBYcw

He's about as good as average for crisis actors :-). Still nothing so far.

Blogger tz January 03, 2016 4:57 PM  

@79 - The Hammonds are under coercion, so "willingly, conscientiously" CANNOT apply. At best it cannot be determined, but I don't think they are Quakers.

@82 - I have the opposite 4GW analysis - it depends on which "locals", among other things.

@89 - speaking of Fed plants - I never thought of hemlock. I should plant some water hemlock in non-suspicious places around the local irrigation system.

Sometimes the Socratic method needs to be more than dialectical.

Blogger Aeoli Pera January 03, 2016 5:07 PM  

Well, I reverse my previous opinion, so I'm on the conspiracy theory side now (somewhat tentatively, maybe 70-30).

If so, this guy is a relatively high-functioning narcissist (not a proper sociopath, think militia Scalzi) but he definitely would need regular contact with a handler. Would respond well to an amygdala hijack. I wonder if he'll just get bulldozed with the rest, dime a dozen after all.

Timing is very convenient. Combined with AC quote above, explains the cui bono end of things. So we have

Motive: R-selected backlash to push gun legislation
Method: Payne + sociopathic handler (Cooper?)
Opportunity: Ammon Bundy breaking down under continuous pressure

Blogger Aeoli Pera January 03, 2016 5:09 PM  

Any way of determining whether the local law office received some kind of request to arrest Ammon at this particular time?

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother January 03, 2016 5:16 PM  

Aeoli,

Not right now.

Blogger Aeoli Pera January 03, 2016 5:25 PM  

Here's video of Cooper: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPaECrZ6H7k

No contradictions so far. Absolutely zero anxiety or discomfort (lack of anxiety is characteristic of psychopathy) even during taboo provocation. Doubt he'd blink while lying, whereas Payne has a shit ton of anxiety tells (narcissism is characterized by anxiety). Cooper is very comfortable being in the background of a group (see facebook background picture). I presume his temper is quick and excessive, like PNH.

Certainly plausible that he's the handler. I predict he will remind people of the sociopaths they've known.

Blogger Aeoli Pera January 03, 2016 5:26 PM  

Probably the most fun I've ever had in a comment thread.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother January 03, 2016 5:28 PM  

Aeoli,

Visit our Facebook page and website for more fun.

Blogger Aeoli Pera January 03, 2016 5:30 PM  

Must note he's a much lower IQ sociopath than PNH. Higher IQ manifests in self-conscious body language (often overmuch). Sometimes reserved (introverts), sometimes just controlled and deliberate (extraverts). (Aspergoids are an exception, often being clumsy.) So even if it's him, he also would require a handler above him.

Blogger Curtis January 03, 2016 5:40 PM  

@99 tz

@79 - The Hammonds are under coercion, so "willingly, conscientiously" CANNOT apply. At best it cannot be determined, but I don't think they are Quakers.

You are going to the gulag camps!

Over your dead body, or mine!

Willingly and conscientiously. Your choice.

But, but, but Jesus, he said he'll chop my head off if I didn't deny you!

You willingly and conscientiously made your choice.


Meh. Whatever.

Blogger clk January 03, 2016 5:42 PM  

@50 ..Predictably, CLK chimes in to exhibit xir complete inability to understand the situation, the difficulties, or even the conversation.

Look Matt K.. its fine you dont understand me... there is a range of IQ that outside which communication is not possible and i certainly wont hold that against you as long as you are trying your best :)....

I dont know while I have become you special target here but lets minimize our interactions to hello and goodbye... this will be the last time i acknowledge anything you have to say.

Blogger Aeoli Pera January 03, 2016 5:50 PM  

Look Matt K.. its fine you dont understand me... there is a range of IQ that outside which communication is not possible and i certainly wont hold that against you as long as you are trying your best :)....

Lol, you are barking up the wrong tree with that one.

Blogger wrf3 January 03, 2016 5:58 PM  

clk @48: "And just what do you see as a replacement for the federal government....? 50 little countries, all with their own army, trade laws, currency... little taliban like Christian countries..."

You don't like diversity, is that it? After all, you could always move somewhere to your own liking.

Anonymous Lawyer Guy January 03, 2016 6:18 PM  

Please recall, John Brown's first crime was to kidnap Pres Washington's direct heir, and steal his sword, followed by murdering a free black employee.

Blogger tz January 03, 2016 6:32 PM  

@107 - our dead body is non-negotiable. The only thing that matters is what we spent our life/death on. Was our life worth living or did we die somewhat old in a bed wasting away because an Obamacare death-panel denied us treatment?

Blogger David The Good January 03, 2016 7:41 PM  

Those of you talking about poisonous plants are going to love the next gardening release from CH.

Anonymous DT January 03, 2016 8:35 PM  

@20 - Idiots. The government should try something different for a change...

Yes. How about the government...

* Obey the law.

* Arrest and prosecute any agents and judges who committed criminal conspiracy and/or malicious prosecution against the Hammond family and their property.

* Restore the Hammond's property rights.

* Pardon the father and son to put to rest any question over sentences served or future malicious prosecution.

* Fire the psychopaths who have turned the BLM into a hated agency known for corruption and overreach.

* Offer the people who have occupied the Federal building a pardon if they agree to leave peacefully, and to peacefully petition the government in any future situations such as this.

That would be one hell of a change.

Blogger Were-Puppy January 03, 2016 8:55 PM  

@113 David The Good

Those of you talking about poisonous plants are going to love the next gardening release from CH.
---

I can't wait for that one :P

Anonymous Rick Johnsmeyer January 03, 2016 9:19 PM  

One thing that's not very clear - does the militia actually have LOCAL support? Do the people in the town of Burns back them? Or are they just another set of outside carpetbaggers trying to push their own agenda on the actual population there? What percentage of the protesters ARE locals, and actually live in the town in question?

I'd have to figure that out before making any further analysis.

OpenID sigbouncer January 03, 2016 9:19 PM  

@103

Stanley Blaine Hicks is his real name. He took the name Blaine Cooper from the movie Predator (Jesse Ventura's character). Evidently he signed up for the marines and no showed. Poser, that was easy.

http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=61312

http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=60474&cpage=1#comment-2568499

OpenID sigbouncer January 03, 2016 9:29 PM  

http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=61312

"Well, that and the fact that Stanley Hicks has 16 arrests and convictions in Arizona whereas Blaine Cooper only has one felony arrest and conviction in Arizona."

Felon in possession of a firearm? This reeks.

Anonymous Takin' a Look January 03, 2016 9:44 PM  

Yep, it's as Vox, Lind, Kratman and Creveld have been saying. If you don't have the moral high ground and the proper rhetoric, you won't get anywhere. Right now, neither side really has the MHG. But that could change in favor of the feds quickly enough. Remember, most of conservative, white america is urban/suburban just like the cucks/shitlibs. Rural farming, ranching is nostalgic romantism. Few people actually understand the nitty-gritty of it and will think. "Rancher burns down public forest to mooch his cows off on".

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother January 03, 2016 9:52 PM  

https://www.facebook.com/OKNational/posts/1118479261519072?fref=nf

Blogger Phil Divver January 03, 2016 10:24 PM  

This is all about land and the water on the he land. Control the water and control the populace. This is nothing new. The Tyrant is getting increasingly brazened and must be vanquished. Be aware of the set up and false flag orchestrated by the snake in the Oval Office and his lackies.

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY January 03, 2016 10:47 PM  

Fuck John Brown.That self righteous Yankee bastard (although his title would be " community organizer" in this day and age.) As I said here many, many moons ago, His skull is good for a jack o' lantern and nothing else.

Blogger Harold January 03, 2016 11:45 PM  

@35 "And the "volunteer" army has volunteers because the young and illiterate can't find jobs anywhere else."

Oh, really? My eldest son enlisted, quitting a full time job, applied to and got through USMA. My second enlisted, turned down officer training, and is now an electrical engineer, making 6X what I make. The average enlisted man today is better educated then at any time in history, except possibly WWII. I joined the Navy and got to see the last of the draftees leave. Good riddance. Are all the enlistees college material? No. But the illiterates don't slip in anymore. There's no place for them in today's armed forces. As late as the 1960's there was, but no longer.

Blogger Curtis January 04, 2016 12:06 AM  

Yeah well, it is a great place for indoctrinated millennials to go and get further indoctrination.

It's not the best video, but it does have some great clips. At the least, pay attention the DefSec speaking to his troops: https://youtu.be/vwKG2pjUZK8?t=28s

Pay attention. If you can't parse the propaganda and indoctrination here, then everything is okay and our government is great and only means to help you and save you from those weird Americans.

Anonymous kfg January 04, 2016 12:18 AM  

"Fuck John Brown.That self righteous Yankee bastard . . ."

I didn't bring him up as a form of endorsement, nor of the current situation. I'm just observing and analyzing.

Blogger Phil Divver January 04, 2016 9:30 AM  

An amoeba probably could perform a better analysis...keep your divisionist shit to yourself! It is not productive.

Blogger Phil Divver January 04, 2016 9:32 AM  

I get your pardon...this was meant for John Mosby (scroll up)

Blogger Phil Divver January 04, 2016 9:33 AM  

Scroll down Jackass!

Blogger Were-Puppy January 04, 2016 9:57 AM  

@123 jOHN MOSBY

Fuck John Brown.That self righteous Yankee bastard (although his title would be " community organizer" in this day and age.) As I said here many, many moons ago, His skull is good for a jack o' lantern and nothing else.
---

His very name is a literal curse 2 generations ago.

Anonymous Passinthough January 04, 2016 1:58 PM  

Something to consider; stupidity and federal government travel together. Obama needs a distraction from his "gun control" royal edict. The Feds have threatened to get back at Cliven Bundy. The tracks read federal operation. Federal infiltrators initiated this. Ammon Bundy is hot headed.

Anonymous A.B. Prosper January 04, 2016 3:46 PM  

Instapundit has been calling CNN out on its hypocrisy today so that is something.

It even been showcasing pro Christian America articles of a sort. Given I think Pundit and wife are secularists, its a pleasant surprise.

On the topic at hand , Jack Amok covered pretty much most of what I'd want to say in his excellent analysis.

One thing to say to those who say Ammon Bundy and his crew aren't the one to rally behind. Perhaps not but neither Crispus Attucks nor Horst Wessel for that matter were all that special either. Its hard to predict who will be the next mythologized martyr.

Now if I was a Fed I'd be thinking about the OPM leak and social network analysis software and things of that nature.

They work for a leviathan that can't even protect the most confidential and important data, down to the names and identities of everyone important to them.

You average Fed I've met is just a guy getting a paycheck and doing his job. Few are bad people. Some are good Christians.

The last thing they want is for their stupid superiors to provoke a Yugoslavia style uprising in an increasingly immoral post Christian environment with no real ability to hide and millions of unknown enemies.

All those of us who want and end to this without bloodshed can do is prepare and pray.

I figure if someone from FEMEN can come around anyone can. Prayer is mighty.

Blogger Phil Divver January 04, 2016 4:37 PM  

Scroll down Jackass!

Blogger Phil Divver January 04, 2016 4:37 PM  

I get your pardon...this was meant for John Mosby (scroll up)

Blogger dienw January 04, 2016 5:50 PM  

Wake up to your minders!
Cruz and Hannity have Just told the Portland protesters to stand down.
I hope that after the exclamations against America in Ted Cruz telling Americans to STAND DOWN, and Sean Homo Hannity telling Americans to BEND OVER, that even the deniers will accept what I has been posted here with proof, that Ted Cruz is nothing but a minder for the Tea Party to discourage it, and Sean Homo Hannity is a minder to the rural rednecks not to resist their own destruction.

Anonymous Vengeance is Mine January 05, 2016 9:27 AM  

Vox,
When did your comments section become Pravda? Are these real commenters, "mow them down!"? "Kill 'em all and let (g)od sort them out!"????

Frankly, I have followed the IIIper/Patriot movement since Waco, when I saw photographs of dead children, their backs broken by the spasms of breathing burning CS gas while M16s shot their parents dead in thre-round bursts. ("Waco: Rules of Engagement".)

Payne is almost certainly a paid agitator. Bundy might be acting under duress, payback for his father's courageous stand.

If these sick fucks are your fans or even welcome here, you have a real problem on your hands. Since when did the Left give a damn about "subversion" and "treason"? really? I'm surprised their mouths can form the words, let alone spit them out as they do.

If "they" think "they" will win this fight ... "they" are delusional. There are still 225,000,000 red-blooded American patriots biding their time against these SJW/Bolshevik subversive shitheads. Yes - absolutely we were caught completely by surprise with "The Sixties" even as McCarthy and the Birchers were laughed to scorn. Nixon was the second SJW "score" and we all wondered what the hell just happened to a sitting president.

This is not 1969. It is not 1974. We've had two generations of study and research and, more importantly, organization, as our Christian patience and tolerance is deliberately pushed past the breaking point, the "point of no return".

It will be gratifying, very gratifying, to when fifty years of sucking it up in the name of our God is made right.

Blogger dienw January 05, 2016 11:52 AM  

The history of government illegal harassment of the Oregon ranchers.

Blogger Kyle Smith January 05, 2016 9:23 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Kyle Smith January 05, 2016 9:25 PM  

The general population thinks of the government rarely and with little interest. High taxes are like bad weather most people don't like it but don't care. I pay 50% taxes all together and hate it and agree with many here - but it would have to be monumentally worse for my situation to be bad enough to risk violence and the loss of regular society. I got kids and am busy working. We are so far away from any widespread rebellion. So far. The most people are going to do is throw a tantrum, nominate Trump and feel like suckers when that elects Hillary. Take up arms. No way. We are worlds away.

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