ALL BLOG POSTS AND COMMENTS COPYRIGHT (C) 2003-2016 VOX DAY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. REPRODUCTION WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED.

Friday, January 08, 2016

Open borders theory failed

Considering how badly mainstream economics has failed with even a partial implementation of the free movement of people, imagine how bad it would be if the globalists ever got their way and established a borderless world:
  • Immigrants make up 13 percent of the US population and 17 percent of the workforce
  • The number of Americans not in the labor force last month totaled 94,103,000.
It's all there in Cuckservative, specifically, the chapter on economics and immigration. Free traders, you are wrong. There is no need to resort to quoting Smith, Ricardo, Hazlitt, or Mises. I know them better than you do.

The fact of the matter is that their theory was put to the test. And it failed. They are every bit as wrong in that particular regard as Marx and Keynes and Friedman were about the Labor Theory of Value, the General Theory, and monetary theory.

For decades, people opined about free trade and the free movement of peoples based solely on theory. Now, we have sufficient data to assess their predictions, and contrary to what many of us expected, (and I include myself in this regard), the free traders turned out to be completely wrong.

That doesn't mean that autarky is the correct answer or that there are not significant problems with government-limited trade, but free trade has not only impoverished the nation, the free movement of people element has already put a number of nations in risk of extinction.

Labels: ,

90 Comments:

Blogger JN January 08, 2016 11:48 AM  

a partial implementation

Moar implementation!

Anonymous Scott66 January 08, 2016 12:02 PM  

Free trade is probably the most efficient way to maximize wealth within an isolated economic system but there will still be winners and losers, not everyone's position will improve. More importantly there are no isolated economic systems and free trade theories don't take into consideration other factors, such as in a democracy it matters who votes. Free trade theories have no way of expressing the problem that africans overwhelmingly vote for corrupt government because they don't have the IQ to understand somewhat abstract concepts, like free trade, and therefore just end up voting for the politician that promises them the most.

Blogger dc.sunsets January 08, 2016 12:03 PM  

DNA is destiny.

There is no substitute for wise stewardship, and the only possible way to even hope for it is if the rulers have the same incentives as owners.

Human populations would be far better served by relatively homogeneous (genetic) conditions (and thus harmonious culture) where factions are unable to produce concentrated benefits and diffuse costs.

Better a hereditary king than a caretaker whose throne is the focus of unstoppable conflict between factions of the ruled.

OpenID Jack Amok January 08, 2016 12:03 PM  

As a former free trader myself, I completely agree.

Vox, have you given thought to fleshing out a new trade theory, consistent with what we've learned? Something that identifies the criteria a people should use when making trade decisions? Something that serves as an alternative to going back to Mercantilism?

Blogger dc.sunsets January 08, 2016 12:04 PM  

Mass movement of labor (and demand, in a welfare state environment) is a perfect example of concentrated benefit, diffuse cost that becomes an inevitable tragedy of the commons.

It is a predictable result of democratic despotism left running long enough.

OpenID paworldandtimes January 08, 2016 12:07 PM  

The simplest counter to the doctrine of free trade: neither individual humans nor human groups, are fungible. IOW, quality matters.

PA

Anonymous johnc January 08, 2016 12:07 PM  

So many facades are crumbling in 2016.

OpenID ymarsakar January 08, 2016 12:08 PM  

Traitors can use anything to put their nation into a volcano.

Free trade makes sense for people to blame now, because they didn't see the emergency of the Leftist alliance or Islamic Jihad, 10 years ago.

Blogger David Adams January 08, 2016 12:11 PM  

I want to ask Mr Vox Day and the posters a question.

What do you think that makes people leftists to the extreme that they would accept open borders and lash out at people who are defending against their countries being turned into hellholes?

They don't get upset about incidents of rape, peadophilia and murder from the invaders but when people want to defend against it then they start foaming at the mouth.


When you have the horror of what has happened in England, Sweden, Germany and incidents being mentioned in other countries then how can white people in Europe and America turn against their own people that are arguing against what is happening?

Have they been brainwashed in cultural marxism from school and the media or is there something else that would drive somebody to that bizzare mindset?

Blogger Anthony January 08, 2016 12:13 PM  

Free(ish) movement of labor has had exactly the effect predicted by economists (not politicians) - the price of labor has dropped; the price of goods where labor is a major part of the production cost has dropped, and the poorest laborers are earning more money.

The issue is that "the price of labor" is something which the laborers have an interest in. The price of a hamburger is not important to the hamburger. It is important to the rancher, to the butcher, to the counterperson at McDonald's, and to the hungry person.

Anonymous bagger vance January 08, 2016 12:14 PM  

Just a random anecdote but I noted a blog post by an American expat in Japan stating " Japan’s unemployment rate stands as just 3.1%, very close to theoretical full employment, which puts stress on businesses because it can be hard for them to fill positions."

Wow, frictional levels of unemployment and among the world's lowest crime rates. Shame they miss out on all the advantages that "diversity" gives us.

Blogger dc.sunsets January 08, 2016 12:22 PM  

@2 You're still missing the point. Free trade under conditions of democracy must always turn into catastrophe, simply due to very simple game theory considerations.

The goal presumably is for your nation (tribe, city-state, whatever) to improve in general, but measuring that is impossible under the Hobbesian war among factions in democracy. It produces the mutual and continuous robbery all around us. It's already hard enough for a large corporation to do manage this, and corporations (mostly) lack the perverse incentives of polities.

As much as I theoretically detest central planning, the most likely system to yield a trend toward some modest conception of "general improvement" would be if the polity is seen as a unified "asset" by an owner-ruler, who then has incentives to improve "his" capital (including land, plant/equipment, innovation and people.)

As Hoppe notes, your king may be wise or foolish, sane or crazy but when "everyone" competes to rule under democracy you are utterly certain that rulers will strip-mine that capital during the brief tenure of their office.

Free trade and free movement of people are simply artifacts that would be absurd when the ruler-owner has a preserve-and-grow mindset.

OpenID ymarsakar January 08, 2016 12:27 PM  

When you have the horror of what has happened in England, Sweden, Germany and incidents being mentioned in other countries then how can white people in Europe and America turn against their own people that are arguing against what is happening?

They are obeying their orders, David. It is easier and more accurate to think of them as zombies, than as humans with a soul or free will.

If a Leftist is given an order, by their God King Messiah or equivalent authority, they will turn you and any family you have, into the death squads, Leftist or Islamic. Count on that.

The problem is the person causing the problem. I don't think fixing the car's engine, wheels, and brakes all the time, while calling it free trade or whatever policy, is going to work. The driver is the insane and evil on that keeps running over kids and dogs, for kicks and giggles. Terminate him, and you don't have to fix the car any more...

Blogger dc.sunsets January 08, 2016 12:28 PM  

@10 In a welfare state, useless/helpless/dependent immigrants are a source of demand for Welfare State Product supply (and democrat voters, of course.)

It's not all about driving down wages. Once you have a professional bureaucracy whose employees depend upon "objects of charity" to justify their occupation, the only limit to their support for "importing demand" is Sarajevo-style chaos or utter economic collapse.

Concentrated benefit (to the Welfare Staters), diffuse costs (chaos and disaster for all) spread largely in equal shares.

Government bureaucracies obey laws as inviolable as those of physics.

Blogger VD January 08, 2016 12:30 PM  

Vox, have you given thought to fleshing out a new trade theory, consistent with what we've learned? Something that identifies the criteria a people should use when making trade decisions? Something that serves as an alternative to going back to Mercantilism?

Yes. In my copious spare time. Speaking of which, send me an email. I have a private question for you.

Blogger Thomas Davidsmeier January 08, 2016 12:32 PM  

@9

They serve Satan, the Lord of Lies, and have become such habitual liars that they lie even to themselves. They have spent so much time with Falsehood that they can no longer recognize the Truth.

Just try to talk to one for a little while. How else could they contradict themselves with the same sentence and not see a problem with it?

Anonymous Ryan January 08, 2016 12:36 PM  

There was a bright fellow who did say,
I wish the muzzies would all go away,
But it is our women who choose,
Whether we win or we lose...
So our IQ does diminish each day.

Blogger John Wright January 08, 2016 12:39 PM  

@9

"What do you think that makes people leftists to the extreme that they would accept open borders and lash out at people who are defending against their countries being turned into hellholes?"

Addiction to a false sense of moral superiority.

Note that moving a refugee to some safe place in the Middle East costs one twelfth the price of moving a refugee to America, one thousand dollar per head versus twelve thousand dollars per head.

The Leftist, however, gets an endorphin rush of unearned moral superiority when he advocates moving military-age Muslim jihadists next door to Mrs Grundy here in America, but he gets no such rush using reason, and saving twelve refugees rather than one.

They are addicted to self righteousness, which has a physical biochemical 'kick' to it. Thinking about the practical results of their actions, however, does not involve and addictive rush of brain chemicals, and no sense of unearned moral superiority.

They don't care about being altruistic, that is, actually helping real people in reality, only about thinking of themselves as altruistic, that is, giving themselves a pat on the back as someone more moral hence better than his father. Since make believe moral superiority works just as well to produce the brain chemical as real moral superiority, and since real moral superiority involves work, they retreat entirely from reality into makebelieveland.

The believe thought is a thoughtcrime. The only way to avoid thought is to avoid judgment.

They believe that by avoiding judgment, they avoid all the causes for conflict hence for war and turmoil. Their theory is that no crusades and no jihads exist in an agnostic world; no conflict between capitalists and communists exist exists if no one thinks about economics and has no opinion hence no preference between liberty and tyranny.

The only way to avoid judgment is to elevate whatever is evil or useless and to undermine whatever is good and useful.

So they always, always, always side with the evil and hate the good.

Blogger John Morris January 08, 2016 12:40 PM  

I only recently managed to plow through Mises's _Human Action_ and still thinking through the implications so am asking this as a student seeking enlightenment. But I read Mises clearly drawing attention to the difference between the free trade of products between nations and the free movement of labor and pointed out the social and political problems which arise from mass movement of people between differing cultures. Other than pointing it out as existing he otherwise declared it to be a political problem and not an economic one and thus outside the scope of his book. So what did I miss there?

Anonymous The OASF January 08, 2016 12:42 PM  

@14

That's actually all that it's about. "Global Free Trade" and the like are the nonsense Orwellian terms for Absolute Labor Arbitrage.

Not a new idea.

Now, there are some side benefits that serve the agendas...

Anonymous Hangman January 08, 2016 12:43 PM  

"the free traders turned out to be completely wrong"

Some of the more academic types were wrong, but the more coldly calculating ones were right.

Its just that their actual goals were different then their publicly stated intentions.

The desired outcome was to reduce the cost of labor, and they have succeeded.

Anonymous inertial January 08, 2016 12:56 PM  

As an alternative to Adam Smith et al, check out Friedrich List, the grandfather of German economic miracles (both of them,) East Asian miracle, and even American miracle. He was once hugely influential in the growing America but now he is almost forgotten. Time for another look.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_List

Anonymous Cinco January 08, 2016 1:08 PM  

@#9

What do you think that makes people leftists to the extreme that they would accept open borders and lash out at people who are defending against their countries being turned into hellholes?

First, it is that they assume every single person they don't personally know is fundamentally equal. To them, coming from Liberia means that you could be the next Sergey Brin, if only he/she is educated in our schools...

They lash out becuase they can't accept that their world view may be incorrect. They know (in their hearts not their minds) that diversity is the key to success and peace.

Lastly, they have little to no tolerance for dissenting opinions, ideologies and religious beliefs.

Blogger dc.sunsets January 08, 2016 1:14 PM  


Addiction to a false sense of moral superiority.


This is THE most succinct summary I've ever seen, each word perfectly chosen, especially "addiction" in its biochemical sense. Such people truly indulge in this as a vice (defined by Spooner.) It today is more widespread than addictions to alcohol, mind-altering drugs, gambling and pornography combined.

Blogger pyrrhus January 08, 2016 1:22 PM  

"but free trade has not only impoverished the nation, the free movement of people element has already put a number of nations in risk of extinction."
Success!

Blogger dc.sunsets January 08, 2016 1:29 PM  

I'll add that Mr. Wright's incisive use of the term, "addiction" also invokes a genetic basis for such a behavioral vice, exactly as we are informed predisposes individuals to the usual spectrum of vices.

Some people really are slaves to their dopamine highs, and their support for pathological public policies is no less compelled than the monkey sitting in front of a pressure switch pressing it to feed current to the electrodes implanted in its brain.

Think of this the next time you attempt to convince the monkey that its incessant pressing of the switch is a bad idea.

Blogger Jake Carver January 08, 2016 1:29 PM  

Didnt debt, regs And welfare contribute to The decay? Without the enabling factors wouldnt América have stayed moré competitive while enjoying the enhanced benefits of specialized labor?

Blogger Jake Carver January 08, 2016 1:31 PM  

Btw completely agree immigration should be stopped in light of welfare And voting trends.

Blogger VD January 08, 2016 1:32 PM  

So what did I miss there?

Nothing.

Blogger Polynices January 08, 2016 1:39 PM  

Free trade with sealed borders and close-to-zero immigration would probably work pretty damn well. Not the world we're in, sadly. Shame that the folks pushing free trade also pushed open borders which undermined it in every way.

Anonymous Epimandes January 08, 2016 1:53 PM  

Complete and unrestricted freedom of movement would have established a different equilibrium point, and the shift to that new equilibrium would have been very painful, but there's no reason to think that once the new equilibrium was reached that it would have been better or worse than our current system.

Blogger tz January 08, 2016 2:03 PM  

@30 "Free Trade" won't work even with zero immigration because the problem of depressing (i.e. stealing) wages can just be relocated across the border. We demand things like worker safety, compensation, etc. and that increases the price. The only things which wouldn't be affected are things like nannys and garden/lawn service and the like which must occur within the borders. I'd even add the internet - what do US laws on commerce mean when the person handling your financial information is in India or Eastern Europe. Another way to put it, am I free to sell stuff shoplifted in the USA in Canada or vice versa?

"Free Trade" as such might work between two countries with identical cultures and laws where the border is just an inconvenience (e.g. Canada, New Zealand, and the USA). I won't push the argument as it has been discussed at length, but the only big advantages are "regulatory arbitrage", which really means they can pollute to the point of mass death, defraud people of wages maybe through company store type things, and injure and kill workers without compensation.

If Chinese workers and citizens (pollution, land grabs) could sue in our Courts for violations of our laws but over there (does free trade include exporting torts and lawyers?), it would be worse than a tariff, especially with all the lawyers and juries ready to hand huge wads of cash over to sympathetic "victims".

As to refugees, in blue states, particularly sanctuary cities, we need to get rid of guns - from the police, as someone stole a police weapon and...
http://6abc.com/news/philadelphia-police-officer-ambushed-shot-in-west-philly/1150918/

Anonymous Swiggy Gee January 08, 2016 2:06 PM  

White girls love Men of Colour.

Get used to it.

Blogger Ahazuerus January 08, 2016 2:09 PM  

It's curious that, even though we know about epigenetics, and even though we know what the Word says about bearing about in your own body the fruit of your own sin, few of us have put this together.

Yes, DNA is destiny, to a significant degree. Culture, too, is destiny, to a significant degree.

The cultures that deny God, in word and deed, are also destiny. Real, immediate, and heritable.

Blogger CM January 08, 2016 2:14 PM  

@ Ahazuerus -

What you said really puts an emphasis on Covenental Theology and familial/infant baptism...

Anonymous WinstonWebb January 08, 2016 2:18 PM  

White girls love Men of Colour.

Yes. Often whether they want to or not.

Blogger Cogitans Iuvenis January 08, 2016 2:22 PM  

@18

Agreed, it seems like the extreme leftist ideology is all about avoidance of reality and that the world is a fallen place populated by fallen peoples. This mindset is further bolstered by the material wealth we have here in the west which allows us to avoid how cruel the world is on a daily basis and it has corrupted us as a society. If someone today talked about the concept of micro-aggressions to someone from a hundred years past they would be asked if they were recently released from an insane asylum.

Blogger Cogitans Iuvenis January 08, 2016 2:23 PM  

@18

Agreed, it seems like the extreme leftist ideology is all about avoidance of reality and that the world is a fallen place populated by fallen peoples. This mindset is further bolstered by the material wealth we have here in the west which allows us to avoid how cruel the world is on a daily basis and it has corrupted us as a society. If someone today talked about the concept of micro-aggressions to someone from a hundred years past they would be asked if they were recently released from an insane asylum.

Blogger dc.sunsets January 08, 2016 2:24 PM  

White girls love Men of Colour.

Get used to it.


If your comment is in earnest, prove it. There are plenty of black males on dating sites, I'm sure. How many of the girls are thronging to them?

The gals I see around here who prefer dark males are 98% too repugnant even for 6-beer-thick beer goggles. I'm a big guy and most of them outweigh me.

Blogger VD January 08, 2016 2:29 PM  

White girls love Men of Colour.

Not according to every scientific and statistical study.

Blogger Thomas Davidsmeier January 08, 2016 2:39 PM  

@40

If the Men of Colour are green, as in rolling in money, it helps. But, even that is often a symptom of Alpha-ness and not the predictor. It is the attitude and personality that do the attracting, not the bank account that sometimes comes with it.

Anonymous karsten January 08, 2016 2:47 PM  

Yes, I'd say this is dead on. This really is it:

http://voxday.blogspot.ca/2016/01/open-borders-theory-failed.html#c6802766948012534502

"Addiction to a false sense of moral superiority.

The Leftist, however, gets an endorphin rush of unearned moral superiority

They are addicted to self righteousness, which has a physical biochemical 'kick' to it."


It tallies with one of the most eye-opening posts that Vox ever posted on this blog:

http://voxday.blogspot.ca/2015/12/the-call-of-cuck.html

"I've seen this repeatedly in Churchians. Their religion consists of equating "love" with "being nice". It puts a premium on whatever makes them feel good emotionally; they are essentially emotional hedonists rather than physical ones."

Churchians or SJWs, it's the same heady ego-gush of fine feeling from being able to think of themselves as "doubleplusgood people" that motivates them.

The power of this feeling, and its ability to influence human behaviour, should be further studied. It may be the most underestimated motivation in human psychology.

Blogger Dystopic January 08, 2016 2:57 PM  

Free Trade with hostile powers and cultures is, essentially, subsidizing your own cultural and national suicide. There's an argument to be made that nations with close cultural ties may have freeer trade between them, relatively speaking. But that is a gentleman's agreement and should only be extended to real, demonstrable allies.

Blogger Desiderius January 08, 2016 3:00 PM  

"already put a number of nations in risk of extinction."

They already were. Our whole rotten leadership class grew up in the shadow of Nuclear Armageddon.

All of the things you decry are principally an allergic reaction to that fear.

Blogger dc.sunsets January 08, 2016 3:06 PM  

The power of this feeling, and its ability to influence human behaviour, should be further studied. It may be the most underestimated motivation in human psychology.

It is a vice, pure and simple. Short-term euphoria at the cost of happiness...and even life. Those who indulge it are destroying structures that took a thousand years to erect.

Anonymous 11B January 08, 2016 3:13 PM  

In the past five plus years I've noticed a remarkable decline in defenders taking up the free trade side. I recall when VD first starting posting against free trade, we'd see several ardent defenders. But not any more. Hopefully it won't be long until its promoters at the highest levels are gone too.

Blogger bob k. mando January 08, 2016 3:32 PM  

9. David Adams January 08, 2016 12:11 PM
Have they been brainwashed in cultural marxism from school and the media or is there something else



look at the Hitler Youth.

look at the Red Guard.

look at the Komsomol.

seizing the parents from the children and indoctrinating/programming/GROOMING them with what the state wants them to do has been well understood for easily more than 100 years.

and this is quite easy to implement in a single generation. in HALF a generation. start with 5 year olds and, if indoctrinated 'properly', you can have a cadre of slobbering lunatics by they time they're 15.

the perfect example of the efficacy of this is the Scandinavian desire to import Africans.

what in the FUCK are the Scandinavians culturally or socially guilty of?

they had no part in the African slave trade. they had no colonial possessions in the third world.

just what in the HELL are they supposed to be communally atoning for?

and yet, they're slobbering over importing muslims and mud people almost as much as Angela Merkel ( for whom you can assert Holocaust guilt ) is.

it makes no logical sense.


44. Desiderius January 08, 2016 3:00 PM
All of the things you decry are principally an allergic reaction to that fear.



bullshit.

'fear of death' can be, in many ways, mediated through the proper indoctrination.

the greatest shame of the Vikings was a Straw Death ( to grow old and die in bed ).

the Japanese Kamikaze go without saying.

Islam grants you your 70 virgins and an eternity in paradise.

it's not that there wasn't an "allergic reaction" to the threat of total nuclear war, it's that American children were taught that there was other option than cowering under their desks.

American schools have taught American children to be absolutely passive.

Blogger bob k. mando January 08, 2016 3:33 PM  

"no other option"

Anonymous coyote January 08, 2016 3:40 PM  

"The power of this feeling, and its ability to influence human behaviour, should be further studied." Amygdala, and r/K behaviors have been studied. Vox posted from Anonymous Conservative earlier- check the website, very enlightening.

Anonymous KoranBurningFaggot January 08, 2016 3:43 PM  

I am always amazed when 2000+ page documents get called free trade. Then again Mexicans getting free care in the ER because they are too stupid to prevent diaper rash has the cost picked up by the taxpayer along with the ecoli outbreaks from when they don't wash their hands after defecating. What value is there on not having Latino Littering?

Free trade theories have no way of expressing the problem that africans overwhelmingly vote for corrupt government because they don't have the IQ to understand somewhat abstract concepts

Pretty much everyone including Asians & Israelis are ok with corruption and patron-client government model.

@9What do you think that makes people leftists to the extreme that they would accept open borders and lash out at people who are defending against their countries being turned into hellholes?

Envy. Those on the left side of the bell curve think its not fair that others can achieve things. Also for the conservative, when life presents great struggles, he knows he has the power to surmount them. Happiness stems from internal strength and perseverance. For the liberal, when life presents great struggles, the system failed, therefore they were at the mercy of a faulty system, and they believe that only when the system is fixed can their life improve. Happiness is built on systemic contingencies, which they will then seek to control or expect someone else to.

White girls love Men of Colour.Get used to it. Even Bill Clinton wouldn't tap most mudsharks

Blogger Desiderius January 08, 2016 3:49 PM  

John Wright,

"They don't care about being altruistic, that is, actually helping real people in reality, only about thinking of themselves as altruistic, that is, giving themselves a pat on the back as someone more moral hence better than his father."

This is the crux of the matter. The Anxiety of Influence (cf. Bloom, H.) re: The "Greatest Generation". God help the woman who hopes to be better than her mother. The pedestalization of that generation, especially the women, exacerbates the problem.

"Since make believe moral superiority works just as well to produce the brain chemical as real moral superiority, and since real moral superiority involves work, they retreat entirely from reality into makebelieveland."

It's not that simple. Many of those most sorely afflicted work themselves to death, neglecting the familial and spiritual ties that allowed the previous generation to be as great as they were. And yet their work avails them not. They are truly lost.

Anonymous KoranBurningFaggot January 08, 2016 3:53 PM  

"already put a number of nations in risk of extinction."

Human History Summarized. Elite looters have a stunningly simple MO that they repeat seemingly non-stop. Destroy a nation and its economy, and then swoop in and collect hard assets on the cheap usually with easy money due to proximity to central bankers. The goal that these connected money men want is a publicly sanctioned private looting.

mud people almost as much as Angela Merkel ( for whom you can assert Holocaust guilt ) is.

Look at this video of cunt Merkel taking a German flag away from another politician so it wouldn't be seen at a photo op. It also has the reaction of the German gay jewish defense minister to the German flag. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjlKO6hCRoc

Blogger Desiderius January 08, 2016 3:57 PM  

Mando,

Settle down, Bob.

"it's not that there wasn't an "allergic reaction" to the threat of total nuclear war, it's that American children were taught that there was other option than cowering under their desks.

American schools have taught American children to be absolutely passive."

That is the allergic reaction I was talking about. The flight to passive effeminacy and away from any expression, however benign, of patriotism, that might be construed as nationalism and lead back to another Total War, this time the last.

Likewise for women from any hint of natalism which might exacerbate population pressures that were thought to inevitably lead back to war.

Blogger Desiderius January 08, 2016 4:02 PM  

"'fear of death' can be, in many ways, mediated through the proper indoctrination."

Reflect on the difference between "allergic reaction" and "proper indoctrination." That indoctrination developed culturally over centuries to deal with a common phenomenon. The threat of Total Nuclear Annihilation was entirely novel. It will take time for human cultures to develop new traditions of indoctrination (i.e. teaching, mores) to properly deal with it.

Blogger bob k. mando January 08, 2016 4:17 PM  

53. Desiderius January 08, 2016 3:57 PM
That is the allergic reaction I was talking about.



'allergy' implies a natural, accidental and organic, if deranged, response to something.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/allergy

there is nothing accidental or natural about the design of public education, nor of the outcomes that it produces.

http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/


the estimable Mr. Wright is correct that most of these people are just chasing a dopamine fix.

but every population is going to have people who are addicted to the dopamine fix. that's not the primary issue.

the primary issue is, how are they acculturated / indoctrinated what are considered "socially acceptable" means of satisfying that fix?

we here in the West have had our educational systems over run by Cultural Marxists / Scientific Marxists for over a century. it is THEY who design the indoctrination of our children and it is THEY who designate the goals towards which most of these children will be acclimated when they reach adulthood.



Government schooling is about "the perfect organization of the hive."
H.H. Goddard, Human Efficiency (1920)

Blogger Dire Badger January 08, 2016 4:21 PM  

I guess no one has ever noticed that the 'Dark ages' were caused by the mass movement of immigrants.

Blogger Aercho January 08, 2016 4:35 PM  

@9 What do you think that makes people leftists to the extreme that they would accept open borders and lash out at people who are defending against their countries being turned into hellholes?


It's more than the "good feelings"/dopamine effect. Remember that these people see no borders, like Kratman's Tranzis. Believing that you should have a country, much less wanting to protect it or see it continue to exist, is seen by these people as backward, bigoted, racist thinking.

Anonymous bubble January 08, 2016 5:04 PM  

@9
"What do you think that makes people leftists to the extreme that they would accept open borders and lash out at people who are defending against their countries being turned into hellholes?"

I think it's genetic. Having a minority who instinctively oppose the majority creates a beneficial dialectic under balanced conditions.

In a society where the culture is 80% sub-optimal these people drive cultural evolution in a good direction but when a society has evolved to be 80%+ correct then they become a disastrous liability.

However in an 80%+ correct culture they wouldn't have much power or influence... unless they were supported by the dominant media.

Anonymous bubble January 08, 2016 5:06 PM  

@19

"Other than pointing it out as existing he otherwise declared it to be a political problem and not an economic one and thus outside the scope of his book. So what did I miss there?"

culture and genetics are economic problems

@33
"White girls love Men of Colour. Get used to it."

Well in that case there'd be only one solution.

Blogger Dire Badger January 08, 2016 5:12 PM  

You can have free trade or you can have free movement. Never both.

Blogger Robert What? January 08, 2016 5:36 PM  

Vox, it depends what you mean by "failed". If you mean bringing the most economic freedom and opportunity to the most number of people, then you are right: the open borders policies have failed miserably. But those are not the goals of the "elites". Their goal is to turn as many people as possible into unquestioning, obedient serfs. (That is why they like the migrants so much: they are natural born serfs: with a little muscle-flexing they shut up and do as their told.) So by the "elites" goals, their policies are succeeding quite nicely, thank you.

Blogger Desiderius January 08, 2016 5:40 PM  

"we here in the West have had our educational systems over run by Cultural Marxists / Scientific Marxists for over a century. it is THEY who design the indoctrination of our children and it is THEY who designate the goals towards which most of these children will be acclimated when they reach adulthood."

Of course, but here was a stark and sudden change in the outcomes of their efforts once those who were raised under the shadow of Nuclear Armageddon came of age. The allergic reaction removed their immune system and left them susceptible to the Marxist indoctrination in a way that the previous generation were not.

Blogger Quadko January 08, 2016 6:15 PM  

VD, I've wondered - do you have an idea what the correct natural borders of beneficial free movement would be? Cultural borders (intra- or extra- national), language, other?

Say, some examples, Texas and Maine, Canada and Northern US border states, Scandanavia, England & France, England & Ireland, Spain and Mexico... or are those all too big? Are Florence and Genoa hurt more than helped by free movement between them?

Blogger Big Griz Reno January 08, 2016 6:54 PM  

I have not been following closely enough to understand your position on free trade. I believe in free trade and highly regulated borders. Why do you find these two positions incompatible? Please point me to a resource if there is no short explanation.
Thanks, Big Griz

Blogger Big Griz Reno January 08, 2016 6:59 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger David Adams January 08, 2016 7:25 PM  

Thanks for the responses to my question, some good stuff.

I am wondering how many people are going to get raped and killed etc by the invaders before we no longer have to hear the same "but the majority are peaceful" Line, That really gets on my nerves.

Blogger Groot January 08, 2016 8:09 PM  

@6. paworldandtimes:
"The simplest counter to the doctrine of free trade: neither individual humans nor human groups, are fungible. IOW, quality matters."

Just exactly backwards. Where government treads, only favoritism and corruption matter; where freedom reigns, quality, and the preferences of the free, matter.

(I will confess here that I have still not read Cuckservative, as I am slogging through The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire and a couple of other books, on various media. I also confess that I find challenges close to irresistible.)

Adam Smith on immigration: Tax the immigrant for entry. Bring their money into the system, instead of to the smugglers, while simultaneously ensuring a higher quality of entrant, able to pay and now inured to contributing to the system rather than sapping it.

Blogger 1337kestrel January 08, 2016 9:10 PM  

Regardless of whether "free trade" in goods is good or bad for the US, we'd be in a lot better shape without the free trade in people, to the extent that worrying about the trade deficit is immaterial.

Though, if we didn't have an immigration problem, I'd argue that the trade deficit would be fine if we were buying things of value instead of plastic Chinese junk that breaks in 5 minutes.

Blogger bob k. mando January 08, 2016 9:29 PM  

62. Desiderius January 08, 2016 5:40 PM
The allergic reaction removed their immune system and left them susceptible to the Marxist indoctrination in a way that the previous generation were not.



you are asserting a Black Swan state change, i am asserting Slow Boiling Frog.

how might we resolve this? well, let's examine when the majority of the state change occurred.


the heyday of "duck and cover" was the 50s-60s.

i grew up in the 70s. with Jarts and cap bb guns and bike riding with no helmets and GI Joes all over the place.

i knew people who had volunteered for Vietnam. i knew people who, even after the Nixon impeachment and LBJ's gross mismanagement of Vietnam were still highly patriotic and more action based.

why is it that the vast majority of the pussyfication of the States happened in the 90s, well after the major threat of nuclear confrontation? you will remember that Gorbachev abdicated in 1991 when the USSR dissolved.

i would say that it's because while the Marxists have had their fingers on the levers of control in the NEA since the beginning, there was a serious limit to how fast they could advance their crypto-Marxist agenda. those gunclinging God lovers, dontchyaknow.

you'll also note that widespread medicating of boys didn't start happening until the 80s / 90s either ...

Blogger tz January 08, 2016 9:37 PM  

@63 - culturally, look up "The American Redoubt" - the cascades as the western border (separate is unequal in restrooms is energizing the secession movement in WA), ID, MT, and WY included, but some admit leakage into UT, CO (the northern counties considering secession), and the Dakotas.

Free Trade is NOT compatible with the rule of law, another example:
http://consumerist.com/2016/01/08/amazon-prime-now-drivers-in-arizona-sue-company-for-misclassification-wage-theft/

Blogger OneWingedShark January 08, 2016 10:15 PM  

@61 "Their goal is to turn as many people as possible into unquestioning, obedient serfs. (That is why they like the migrants so much: they are natural born serfs: with a little muscle-flexing they shut up and do as their told.) So by the "elites" goals, their policies are succeeding quite nicely, thank you."

I've noticed this as well, I think they're trying to implement an American Caste System.

Blogger Dire Badger January 08, 2016 10:18 PM  

@TZ- The American redoubt is not unfolding, nor is it going to unfold, the way it's founder envisioned. While Race may not be an issue (although it is) religion certainly IS, and more and more christians are discovering that Yids and Isreal-firsters are the enemy... not the decent, god-fearing neighbors they thought they were.

That and the burgeoning disconnect between Christians and Pagan Constantinites (Trinitarians) are destabilizing things a LOT. The Christians are quite willing to let the anti-biblicals live and let live (They do not assume they are going to hell just for being wrong about christ) But the Trinitarians are growing more and more militant, and are on the side of pope Francis the abomination... law-abiding they may be, but they are supporting and uplifting pure evil and are worse neighbors than the barb arian hordes they worship.

Blogger Desiderius January 08, 2016 10:19 PM  

"you'll also note that widespread medicating of boys didn't start happening until the 80s / 90s either ..."

That was indeed big. Those writing (and recommending) the prescriptions were the first to be raised in the shadow of Hiroshima. When they came into power (and the last cohort raised before that passed from it) was when as you note things most materially changed on a widespread basis for everyday life.

The Swan was not Black, or the reaction would have been haphazard and improvisational. It was a White Swan of unprecedented (and unimagined) scale. Death, but on a species level, rather than an individual or even national.

Anonymous Malwyn's apprentice January 08, 2016 10:21 PM  

@9: What do you think that makes people leftists to the extreme that they would accept open borders and lash out at people who are defending against their countries being turned into hellholes?

Thanks for a great question/topic. My response is fairly simple: pathological levels of self-hatred.

They believe with religious fervor that western culture is the source of all evil and that it must be thoroughly expunged from the civilized world.

Interestingly enough, these nutjobs haven't figured out that nature abhors a vacuum, nor have they spent much time thinking about what might replace western culture ...

Blogger Desiderius January 08, 2016 10:26 PM  

"i knew people who had volunteered for Vietnam. i knew people who, even after the Nixon impeachment and LBJ's gross mismanagement of Vietnam were still highly patriotic and more action based."

I still do. Most of us are more focused on our own communities and institutions right now, both because that's where leadership has to start and because the national level is so cancerous.

Anonymous Malwyn's apprentice January 08, 2016 10:26 PM  

@69: "you'll also note that widespread medicating of boys didn't start happening until the 80s / 90s either ..."

A friend mentioned a few years back that her two children were the only ones she knew of among friends/relatives who weren't on medication or in therapy. At the time she said this, her children were around 2yrs and 7yrs ...

Blogger Desiderius January 08, 2016 10:27 PM  

"My response is fairly simple: pathological levels of self-hatred."

One problem: they don't hate themselves. Far from it.

Blogger Desiderius January 08, 2016 10:32 PM  

"Addressing America--I think it's less self-loathing than a culture of inoffensiveness created by waves of immigration, people uprooted from a specific place, denser environments, and a mass society that tries to suppress group differences and impose a new identity based on togetherly consumption. Taken together Americans do not have a shared religion, shared manners, or a shared history. There is surface politeness (but just barely) without brotherhood. The only thing they can share is materialism. They seem puzzled as to why this is insufficient and there is still lots of conflict. Often this is expressed as surprise and indignation at other groups who do not recognize specific values as universal."

- Pleasureman, MPC

OpenID mattse001 January 08, 2016 11:13 PM  

I can't say that free trade was a complete failure. It worked well enough to alleviate average global poverty (the fact that this doesn't impress the Pope irks me). The problem came from the fact that neither people nor cultures are equal nor equally worthy of riches.

The people imported don't share our culture and destroy it. Countries that are hostile to Western values shouldn't be enriched. When you give ammunition to your enemies, what can you expect but disaster?

Blogger LES January 09, 2016 12:35 AM  

Everyone believes in a higher power. For some it is God. For others it is government. The great thing about rejecting God for government for liberals is that they get to tell their god what is moral and what is not. Then they get their god to impose their idea of morality on everyone.

Blogger dfordoom January 09, 2016 2:11 AM  

@26. dc.sunsets

Some people really are slaves to their dopamine highs, and their support for pathological public policies is no less compelled than the monkey sitting in front of a pressure switch pressing it to feed current to the electrodes implanted in its brain.

Which makes democracy an entirely unworkable political system. People are driven by emotion, not reason. And you cannot choose a government on emotional grounds.

Blogger G-S. January 09, 2016 2:17 AM  

Paul Ryan needs to put out a bill to get American workers working. 5% unemployment needs to go down to 1%. 292,000/month new jobs needs to go up to 500,000/month. Why didn't Boehner put something out years ago I don't know. Either way, it's Congress' job to get something done.

Blogger dfordoom January 09, 2016 2:31 AM  

@69. bob k. mando

you'll also note that widespread medicating of boys didn't start happening until the 80s / 90s either ...

It's widespread medicating of everybody. I agree that pumping boys full of Ritalin is evil but pumping a huge proportion of the population full of SSRIs is equally catastrophic. SSRIs have been a major factor in producing an angry irrational hate-filled female population.

Anonymous K R C O'Brien January 09, 2016 3:10 AM  

13% of the population, 17% of the workforce, >50% of the FBI's Ten Most Wanted List, ~50% of the homicide most wanted list, >50% of the violent crimes most wanted list, last time I checked. And that's just illegals.

Wha cretin looks at those numbers and calls for, "More cowbell!"?

Blogger John Morris January 09, 2016 1:17 PM  

me> So what did I miss there?

vd> Nothing.

Good. So I take it you were warning against the Libertarian types who seem to misuse Austrian economics to promote their no rules worldview?

Was really hoping there wasn't a terrible flaw in Mises and Austrian Economics because it is just about the only thing that does seem to make sense. It is a workable political theory that eludes; All of them seem to have unfixable problems. Looked at everything, including Moldbuggery, and none seem to propose a political system that doesn't have pretty obvious problems, especially in a highly populated world with rapidly increasing knowledge.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash January 09, 2016 3:30 PM  

Was really hoping there wasn't a terrible flaw in Mises and Austrian Economics because it is just about the only thing that does seem to make sense.

One would think that simply refusing to address a major issue with your theory is maybe a flaw.

Blogger John Morris January 09, 2016 6:46 PM  

Snidely @ 85 said, "One would think that simply refusing to address a major issue with your theory is maybe a flaw."

You misunderstand. Mises was is admitting there are valid considerations beyond the purely economic which must be considered and decided in the political realm. Economics can tell you what the economic impact of unlimited immigration might be, things like the impact on labor rates, etc. But the social impact is outside the realm of economics so he is right to declare those questions outside the scope of his work.

That is a good thing, it allows his economics to stick to dealing with economics and not try to pretend to be a political philosophy. The teachings of Austrian economics can be used within almost any political system, some better than others of course.

Blogger Groot January 09, 2016 6:52 PM  

@86. Snidely Whiplash:
"One would think that simply refusing to address a major issue with your theory is maybe a flaw."

You're kidding, right? E = mc² completely fails to address politics, as well. Egads, I'm going to have to rethink my entire education.

Blogger Joshua Sinistar January 09, 2016 6:57 PM  

I'm getting bored. How long is that nigger gonna talk about gun confiscation before he gets his lazy ass in gear? C'mon chickenshits, lets get this party started.
Losers, morons, commies, mud people, and other bottom feeders are why I don't believe in Evolution. If you want something done right you have to do it yourself. The Inferior don't kill themselves, they're too stupid and lazy. Let's give them a helping hand out of the Gene Pool. The Gene Pool needs chlorinating, its too murky Murkan.

Blogger Groot January 10, 2016 2:25 AM  

Murkan is a village in Cham Rud Rural District, Bagh-e Bahadoran District, Lenjan County, Isfahan Province, Iran.

Post a Comment

Rules of the blog
Please do not comment as "Anonymous". Comments by "Anonymous" will be spammed.

<< Home

Newer Posts Older Posts