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Thursday, January 21, 2016

Poland and the return of the nation-state

It may sound strange, but based on Steve Sailer's observations, Poland is a better bet these days than the USA, Germany, or China:
The upcoming GOP primary donnybrook between the establishment right and the antiestablishment right has had a foreshadowing in Polish politics over the past dozen years in the war between Poland’s two dominant parties, both conservative. If you want to know what a Trump presidency might be like, the bumptious populist conservative government elected in Poland three months ago offers some clues....

The once-popular Tusk’s travails in 2015 are worth recounting because they suggest that the failures of American establishment conservatives, such as former GOP front-runner Jeb Bush, aren’t just due to idiosyncratic personality flaws, but are systemic. In a world in which the biggest political issue is borders, the globalist right has a hard time answering to voters’ satisfaction the basic political question: “Whose side are you on?”
“Poland is everything you are not supposed to be in the 21st century: a conservative, religious, and homogeneous nation-state.”

To roughly analogize recent Polish political history for Americans, it’s as if Mitt Romney (Donald Tusk) had won two terms as president, but his plan to hand off power to Paul Ryan had suddenly been disrupted by a landslide for Donald Trump (Jarosław Kaczyński).... Poland is everything you are not supposed to be in the 21st century: a conservative, religious, and homogeneous nation-state.
Which is why Poland is more likely to become a world leader as the 21st century proceeds, as long as it is able to remain Poland rather than becoming yet another orc-infested heterogeneous multinational state.

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106 Comments:

Blogger Dexter January 21, 2016 8:05 AM  

The next partition of Poland... between Germany, who hates the fact that Poland won't accept the orcs, and Russia, who hates having a NATO country on her doorstep.

Blogger Phillip George January 21, 2016 8:25 AM  

If Russia are acting in their national interest I don't see a problem. Because we know Germany aren't acting in their's.

"pathological altruism" someone here posted. Lemmings doing selfies before running off the cliff.

Jesus or Muhammad isn't a decision any people can keep putting off. In Mosul a 1400 years old church just got razed. St Elijah's monastery. Now I couldn't give a rat's arse about the building but the content is critical. The "code" of Elijah is "how long will you hesitate between a decision. Either baal [multicultic shit storm] or God?

So JeSuisPoland. Viva.

Blogger dienw January 21, 2016 8:41 AM  

@ 2. Phillip George
Now I couldn't give a rat's arse about the building but the content is critical. The "code" of Elijah is "how long will you hesitate between a decision. Either baal [multicultic shit storm] or God?

Very good. It is almost as if a divine question was deliberately reposed.

[I wanted to use the strike tag; I guess blogger hasn't caught up yet.]

Blogger Skylark Thibedeau January 21, 2016 8:44 AM  

Unleash the Winged Hussars!

Blogger praetorian January 21, 2016 8:49 AM  

Poland stronk!

Please to be saving the west and most especially my beloved america with your Right Winged-Hussar Death Squads.

Blogger Dexter January 21, 2016 8:54 AM  

If Russia are acting in their national interest I don't see a problem.

There is a problem. It is in the Russian national interest to weaken Germany. They are doing this by facilitating the flow of orcs from the Middle East to Germany. I suspect the US government knows this but is either ignoring it or actively helping it.

OpenID paworldandtimes January 21, 2016 8:59 AM  

"The next partition of Poland..."

In such a scenario, life on the east side of the partition may be the better bet.

PA

Blogger Sean January 21, 2016 9:00 AM  

The Polish elite doesn't seem to be actively at war with its own people

Anonymous John Wilkes Booth January 21, 2016 9:22 AM  

Poland: My wife's people. She is only three generations removed from those who immigrated to our fair land (back when it was still some semblance of a fair land). Maybe we ought to check into potential returns...

Blogger Jake January 21, 2016 9:24 AM  

I don't see Germany striking at Poland as viable, unless they send the immigrant hordes in that direction. Russia is probably enjoying the buffer Poland creates. All this turns on its head if th US decides to "back" Poland like it did Ukraine...

Blogger rho January 21, 2016 9:25 AM  

Steve mentions the Polish plumber issue in England, but kind of dismisses it.

Poles are the Mexicans of Britain, but with fewer DUIs. Feelings in the UK are definitely mixed on the Polish plumber problem, at least from what I know about it.

But if Poland gets its shit together, the Poles will go home, and it will be a nice home at that.

Anonymous Not hung lee January 21, 2016 9:25 AM  

Now that Obama has less than a year, I feel the time is right to metaphorically pop the cork and join the discussion on the Presidential election of the United States. All the talk before today way completely pointless.

I am not American but I pay attention to all English speaking politics around the world. Politics is an obsession of mine.

Now to the discussion. I would wish for Bernie Sanders to win the Democratic Primary and the general election, I personally do not believe he will considering that Americans are always being told that the 'European model' as it's referred to is an utter failure. Also with the rise of the semi-fascist Donald Trump and the 2004 election where they re-elected George Bush, I learned never to underestimate the stupidity of the American voter. I'm no fan of Hillary Clinton even though I do have a favorable view of Bill Clinton's presidency. She simply won't fight hard for the issues I care about and her foreign policy is not much different from the likes of Joe Lieberman or John McCain.

Keep in mind that established forces (and I'm not just talking about career politicians) will not allow a Sanders presidency. The primaries are only a way for voters to give advice to the parties on who the nominee should be. Delegates are not forced to choose the candidate the voters want. Then there are the super delegates. And in the General Election there is the electoral college. I've been warning for years of a deep flaw in the system: faithless electors. Voters in a state choose a candidate and electors are EXPECTED to vote for the candidate of the voter's choosing. But in most states, the electors are not forced by law to choose the candidate of the voters' choosing. In Michigan faithless electors votes are considered null and void. Unless ALL 50 states make laws forcing electors to choose the candidate of the voters' choosing, the US presidential election is not real democracy at work. If Sanders were to win in a landslide, suddenly all your loyal electors will become faithless electors and vote for Trump or a third party candidate.

So I'm going to be the cynic. To me cynicism is a shield from being disappointed and I love being pleasantly surprised. Barack Obama has done much for progressive politics. But there is still much more to be done and Hillary Clinton will not continue with the progressive cause. I was an enthusiastic supporter of Barack Obama in 2008 and looking back, I definitely do not regret my way of thinking. Obama has disappointed me in many ways but in more ways he has done great. Obama is as progressive as America can get. I'm going to acknowledge the sad truth that when Donald Trump is elected, the United States is not a partner in the global community to make the world a better place. The rest of the world will have to soldier on without America.

Blogger Jake January 21, 2016 9:32 AM  

@12 And this is why we want to keep immigrants out...

Anonymous cheddarman of Christendom January 21, 2016 9:34 AM  

Poland needs to form a pan-slavic alliance with other western slavs

Blogger Samuel Nock January 21, 2016 9:37 AM  

"In a world in which the biggest political issue is borders, the globalist right has a hard time answering to voters’ satisfaction the basic political question: “Whose side are you on?”"

That is a tweet-worthy quote, if ever I saw one.

Anonymous Frank B Luke January 21, 2016 9:46 AM  

@12 >Unless ALL 50 states make laws forcing electors to choose the candidate of the voters' choosing, the US presidential election is not real democracy at work.

He acts like this is a bug. It's a feature. The Founders didn't want democracy. They established a republic for good reason.

Blogger bob k. mando January 21, 2016 9:48 AM  

12. Not hung lee January 21, 2016 9:25 AM
Now to the discussion.



you want to have a discussion about how awesome implementing the ten thesis of Communism is?

we don't care.

Blogger Student in Blue January 21, 2016 9:50 AM  

@12
Oooh, "semi-fascist"! Such an evil, terrrrrrible word! Surely that's not misusing the term fascist whatsoever.

Also, you're retarded if you think America still has a chance of remaining a superpower within 20 years. Retarded, or willfully blind to economics.

Anonymous Sparklehorse January 21, 2016 9:57 AM  

Now to the discussion.

You're a moron. Discuss.

Blogger Durandel Almiras January 21, 2016 9:57 AM  

May God preserve Poland, Hungary, and all the European people's resisting these murderous globalist thugs.

Blogger #7139 January 21, 2016 9:58 AM  

@12
If the rest of the world wants to soldier on without America, go do so. We won't miss you. Obama has done too much already.

Anonymous Broheim January 21, 2016 10:03 AM  

There is a reason Polack Jokes exist.

Anonymous Alexander January 21, 2016 10:04 AM  

Meanwhile, Denmark is seeing diseases that were previously non-existent in their frozen little peninsula.

The horsemen always ride together.

Blogger Salt January 21, 2016 10:06 AM  

It ain't your country @12... so fuck off.

OpenID paworldandtimes January 21, 2016 10:07 AM  

There is a reason Polack Jokes exist.

Polack jokes are Goy jokes.

PA

Anonymous TK January 21, 2016 10:08 AM  

The fall of the previous ruling party (in power since 2007) is a very interesting story in how few in the mainstream have seen it coming right until the moment it happened. Poland was to have two elections in 2015: a presidential election in May (the President being a largely ceremonial function, though not completely without power), and the all-important parliamentary election in October.

As late as January the editor of Poland's largest mainstream newspaper quipped that the incumbent Komorowski, aligned with the ruling party, would have to run over a disabled pregnant nun while drunk to fail to win the presidential election. He polled at 60% with the right-wing candidate Duda at 20%. Anything above 50% meant a victory in the first round, which the incumbent could be sure of - or so the media claimed.

Komorowski's presidential campaign was somehow both anaemic and a spectacle of hubris. He even refused to take part in debates against his opponents. The Poles didn't like it, but the media continued to claim a defeat is impossible right until May.

The incumbent coming in second in the first round of voting was an utter shock which sent the entirety of the mainstream establishment into a panic that it is yet to recover from. Only then did a political campaign start - rushed, confused, and ineffective. In the two weeks between the rounds Komorowski pleaded with the public, aped the promises of other candidates, offered to take part in three debates, promised to organise referenda on hot issues... But it was not enough. For many, the pathetic pleading made it even worse.

The ruling party was so demoralised by the defeat it seemed like they immediately accepted that they would lose in October too and they barely put up a fight. All the events in the mean time, such as the government acquiescing to EU refugee quotas, made the defeat even worse - ushering in, for the first time since the fall of communism, a single-party majority, with the nationalist right-wing in full power to fulfil their promises.

Left-wing parties failing to win a single seat is a separate story, though also an educational one.

Anonymous Ryan January 21, 2016 10:14 AM  

It always seemed Polish men were made of stouter stuff. Quiet woman! We men are trying to think!

BTW, in the boomer bashing comments section, I tallied the comments complaining about mothers vs fathers, just for kicks.

I figured it would be about 80/20 moms/dads.

Turned out 75% of angry comments were directed toward moms. 25% toward dads.

This seems about right, and why I believe suffrage is really the factor here, rather than birthdate. Women's bad behavior began to really influence society - they had been turned loose to drink, smoke, cheat, work, borrow, and to vote for men who pander to women's desires.

In any given election you have about 2/3 of the women and about 1/3 of the men (pajama boys, micheal moore, etc) voting for policies that will destroy society.

Anyway not making excuses for boomers. Just sayin - it was the women boomers.

Blogger dc.sunsets January 21, 2016 10:16 AM  

It's always difficult (for me, anyway) to discern if an outlier is a "new direction" or just a head-fake.

Which is Poland's current political regime? To reject the immivasion mandate is to reject all the sugarcoated candy proffered by Brussels Bureaucrats Wearing Trench Coats (with nothing else underneath.)

The West is awash in trusting little girls who harbor no Stranger-Danger. Maybe it makes sense that Poles, at the margin between West and East, buy a clue first.

Anonymous #8601 Jean Valjean January 21, 2016 10:19 AM  

RooshV was ahead of his time.

Bang Poland.

Blogger Student in Blue January 21, 2016 10:24 AM  

@Ryan
Anyway not making excuses for boomers. Just sayin - it was the women boomers.

An interesting theory. I don't want to drag this off topic into yet another Baby Boomer Bashthread, but I'm curious whether or not we can track other generations in other countries when suffrage occurred, and see if that generation suffers from the same sort of emotive-based groupthink.

Blogger Gaiseric January 21, 2016 10:25 AM  

Anyway not making excuses for boomers. Just sayin - it was the women boomers.

Oh, fer cryin' out loud. Look, if it doesn't apply to you because you don't think that you were a typical boomer with typical boomer issues, then just let it go. It's not directed at you and doesn't apply to you.

On the other hand, your habit of taking criticism of your generational cohort personally and getting all emotionally riled up and defensive is certainly a feminine trait. Maybe there's something to your thesis...

Anonymous Haxo Angmark January 21, 2016 10:26 AM  

Poland, Slovakia, Hungary are still trying to eat their EU debtcake and have it too. If the Nationalists are going to stay in power, THEY MUST GET CLEAR of the Judeo-bankster controlled EU & NATO. I see that the puppet ratings agencies are already downgrading Polish bonds. This is not a coincidence

Anonymous TK January 21, 2016 10:31 AM  

@28
I would not say Poland is the first. That would be Hungary. The new Polish regime is right-wing in a similar vein to the Hungarian one, and indeed is on particularly good terms with Orbán.

I have heard of the term "Warsaw express" being used to describe the historical situation in Hungary at times - events in Poland would soon be followed by similar events in Hungary, like the Polish protests of 1956 precipitating a Hungarian uprising a few months later.

This time the Budapest express came to Warsaw.

Anonymous Anonymous January 21, 2016 10:31 AM  

First of all, please forgive me for posting as "Anonymous", but I do not know how to post with my name. My name is ChronicSinner.

As a traditional Catholic, I would also like to believe that the Poland's resistance to the self inflicted ruin its neighbors are engaging in and its status as a "conservative, religious, nation-state", is due to a strong and visible Catholic witness by its bishops, priests, consecrated religious, and laity...a witness lacking throughout most of Europe and the West.

From, ChronicSinner

I do not think that it is any coincidence that Poland as a nation has had the courage to resist the secular and cultural madness that surronds them just as their bishops have had the courage to resist the theologoical and heretical madness coming from Rome and the current pontificate.

Metaphorically, the polish bishops have had the stones to use the "sharp end" of their crozier to fight "the wolves" and adhere faithfully to the traditional, morally binding, and dogmatic Catholic teachings concerning the family and marriage which has been under assault from Rome (paricularly this past two Octobers during the Synods on the Family) and I think this has enboldened the secular national leaders of Poland to have analagous courage in the political sphere. In other words, the Polish bishops are proclaiming the Kingship of Christ as they are called to do and I think it is becoming a light to their Polish flock and I pray to the rest of the world.

Anonymous paradox January 21, 2016 10:32 AM  

@16 Frank B

The Founders didn't want democracy. They established a republic for good reason.

But... Muh... republic! And Vox has pointed out, that republic has failed liberty miserably. Gay marriage and abortion would have been defeated if direct democracy were the system. But no, the... muh republic... crowd needs its unelected (aka republic) Supreme Court and unelected (aka republic) regulatory agencies, to rule.

Blogger Student in Blue January 21, 2016 10:40 AM  

@34. Anonymous

Click on the dropdown menu where it says "Comment as: [ ]" and go to Name/URL. You don't have to put in anything for the URL.

Blogger pyrrhus January 21, 2016 10:42 AM  

@27 Unquestionably, single women, who are emotionally unstable and have the high time preference of children, have wreaked havoc on America. They are the main cause of the welfare state....They should never have been allowed to vote on anything. The only women who should be allowed to vote, IMO, are over 30 (the original age requirement in the UK) married or widowed, and have children or own property.

Anonymous ChronicSinner January 21, 2016 10:47 AM  

@Student in Blue

Thank you and Pax Tecum.

CS

CS

Anonymous #8601 Jean Valjean January 21, 2016 10:49 AM  

@37 Agreed.

Blogger Student in Blue January 21, 2016 10:58 AM  

@ChronicSinner
Thank you and Pax Tecum.
Et cum spiritu tuo.

Blogger VD January 21, 2016 11:10 AM  

The Founders didn't want democracy. They established a republic for good reason.

The Founders failed. We need new and better answers.

Blogger Gaiseric January 21, 2016 11:25 AM  

@37: I'm in favor of one vote per head of household for every household that is a net tax payer.

This plan subject to revision once the IRS is dismantled and the 16th Amendment itself amended out of currency.

Blogger rumpole5 January 21, 2016 11:27 AM  

"The rest of the world will have to soldier on without America." : YES! Beware of foreign entanglements.

Blogger Salt January 21, 2016 11:30 AM  

The Founders failed.

What would have happened if we'd heeded Jefferson and shed a little blood every 20 years or so? Hung a judge here and there? A politician? Jefferson understood, but hadn't an answer. Even the 2nd amendment is but an attempt, useful only in the extreme.

Anonymous That Would Be Telling January 21, 2016 11:39 AM  

@44 Salt:

The Founders failed.

What would have happened if we'd heeded Jefferson and shed a little blood every 20 years or so? Hung a judge here and there? A politician?


That can be very dangerous, if you allow a culture of political assassination to develop, with pre-WWII Japan being the current major example. By the time of the war, public figures were afraid to speak against the imperialists, and famously Admiral Yamamoto was sent to sea in mid-1939 to avoid such a fate for his opposition to allying with Nazi Germany, and no doubt other examples of rationality and honesty.

Anonymous Dave January 21, 2016 11:46 AM  

If you truly believe the founders failed, can you still support anything they created? Cause if they failed making a working government, can't it be said that amendments also failed? I ask because if you truly believe this it doesn't make sense for you to still support anything they created. Like the 2nd Amendment.

Anonymous cincinnatus January 21, 2016 11:47 AM  

From the article:
Polish politics tend to baffle Anglophones because the spelling of the leaders’ names is so eye glazing. Moreover, to a slightly lesser extent than Hungarian, Polish is a language little known by outsiders, so it’s hard for Anglophones to get an unbiased sense of what’s going on politically in Poland or Hungary.

Polish is considerably less eye-glazing after you study some Russian. Doesn't help with Hungarian, though.

Poland needs to form a pan-slavic alliance with other western slavs

So JeSuisPoland. Viva.
@2 PhillipGeorge

That should be JeSuisPologne.

Only one letter away from JeSuieCologne, come to think of it.

@14 cheddarman of Christendom
Already done. Read up on the Visegrad Group (Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, and Hungary). They're a constant headache for the EU elite, especially with this little migration problem.

Anonymous redsash January 21, 2016 11:52 AM  

Poland Hungary and the Czechs have resisted the "let the orcs in" mentality. The Russians and the Czechs have seen AGW/CC for what it is, an attempt for more global governance and a wealth transference. It did this old Anglo-Saxon Christian heart good to see Putin lecturing the West at the U.N. about the danger of turning their backs on their Christian roots. God and God alone lifted that great darkness from the Russian people, and Putin proudly wears the cross his mother gave him, while their Minster of Defense made the sign of the cross at the beginning of their May day parade. Russian leadership is honoring our Lord, and I expect that in the future the West will be struck dumb-founded at how gracious God is toward Russia in return.

There are precious few people who grasp how destructive of our civilization was women being given the vote and entering the work force, among them our founding fathers, the Apostle Paul, and VD.

@12, find a new hobby. Political theory is not your forte. You are several centuries behind John Locke. Put down your little red book and read Sun Yat Sen. No one is impressed with those who still eat with chop sticks knowing full well that there is out there something called a fork and spoon.

Blogger Student in Blue January 21, 2016 11:52 AM  

@Dave
I ask because if you truly believe this it doesn't make sense for you to still support anything they created. Like the 2nd Amendment.

Why would you give up your things to a failed government? It doesn't make sense either way you approach it.

Blogger Skylark Thibedeau January 21, 2016 11:52 AM  

neo Fascist? I always admired Generalissimo Francisco Franco. Too bad he's still dead.

OpenID sigbouncer January 21, 2016 11:55 AM  

@12 Not hung lee

"I would wish for Bernie Sanders to win the Democratic Primary and the general election, I personally do not believe he will considering that Americans are always being told that the 'European model' as it's referred to is an utter failure.

Keep in mind that established forces (and I'm not just talking about career politicians) will not allow a Sanders presidency."


If the Democrats have one ounce of sense they will understand that the only chance they have of defeating Trump is Sanders.

They can play the Robin Hood card with Sanders that they cannot with Clinton. And the rich versus poor card. The numbers are actually in their favor with Sanders, sad to say.

OpenID basementhomebrewer January 21, 2016 11:58 AM  

@42 I have always supported a system that only allows net positive tax payers to vote. The "greatest generation" and the boomers invariably start bristling about Social Security and how they "just want what they earned".

Anonymous M.414 January 21, 2016 11:59 AM  

"There are precious few people who grasp how destructive of our civilization was women being given the vote and entering the work force, among them our founding fathers, the Apostle Paul, and VD."

I came to that conclusion several years ago and current events have reinforced the thought. Things have gone to shit since women "won" the right to vote. Even my wife agrees.

Anonymous #8601 Jean Valjean January 21, 2016 12:16 PM  

@53 Even my wife agrees.

She's a keeper.

Blogger Salt January 21, 2016 12:21 PM  

That can be very dangerous, if you allow a culture of political assassination to develop

@45 What might possibly alter what happened when the Courts took over, a/k/a Judicial activism? The problem even the founders faced is that liberty and government are oppositional. The moment one consigns oneself to having government, liberty is threatened.

Blogger Skylark Thibedeau January 21, 2016 12:28 PM  

@55 Wasn't it Old Hickory who said "John Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it"?

Blogger John Williams January 21, 2016 12:32 PM  

Unleash the Winged Hussars!
Poland has a strong military culture where soldiers are respected by the nation as a whole. Poland's militia/gun culture rivals Redneck flyover 'Murca. The men who crested the hills of Budapest, led by King Jan Sobieski, may appear different today, but they are there.

Anonymous lolwut January 21, 2016 12:33 PM  

"If you truly believe the founders failed, can you still support anything they created? Cause if they failed making a working government, can't it be said that amendments also failed? I ask because if you truly believe this it doesn't make sense for you to still support anything they created. Like the 2nd Amendment."

One of my windshield whipers broke. Time to set the car on fire and get a new one

Anonymous ChronicSinner January 21, 2016 12:45 PM  

@Salt

Liberty properly understood and government are not inherrently oppositional.

The correct end of government is to foster the common good and the correct end of man is union with God. Man achieves this end via liberty, which is the freedom to pursue what is virtuous and morally good as defined by the Divine and Natural Law. That certainly may be hindered by government (see the woman in Kentucky and her resistance to sodomite marriage), but does not have to be.

In other words, liberty is a means to an end and not an end in and of itself. Liberty in not the ability to autonomously define whatever the hell one wants to do which can indeed, depending on what one wants to do, be opposed by the government. That is licentiousness not liberty and no one has the right to licentiousness.

As far as the founders failing, I would agree. To paraphrase Aristotle and Aquinas, a small error in the beginning leads to a bigger one down the line. IMO, the founders erred in drafting the USC by omitting any ultimate appeal to God as the ultimate source and standard of the rights and duties enshrined in the document. These days, the final arbiter of what is permissible is not the Divine or Natural Law, but what 5 black robed justices say is permissible.

Of course, the founders failing had a little help from our 16th president, who under the mantle of saving the union, actually created a new type of union (destroying what he was ostensibly trying to save) where federal power would grow exponentially at the cost of state and individual sovereignty.

Anonymous Jay Will January 21, 2016 12:46 PM  

The return of the nation state isn't going to go down well amongst the string pullers of the US govt puppets, and all of its allies. The EU is meant to be a part of the US stronghold. They want anti-democracy otherwise they might get less help with blowing up and killing Israels' enemies and then flooding Europe with the human ruins of their war for "freedom". The UK, Germany, France do what the US tells them to do. The idea that Merkel is doing this without the full backing of the US empire is ridiculous. The EU is full of elite funded liars, just like all the fakers in the supposed US democracy. All banker buddies. Nobody in politics cares about being tapped, its just their bosses checking up on them.

If Poland is already being targeted by fake independent US run organizations like the S&P, give it a another year or so and lets see what happens about all these European white nationalists. The new Nazis are going to need to be taken out, didn't they do it in Yugoslavia? Maybe its too big a task but doesn't mean they wouldn't want it to happen. Another major war on the horizon, with the US coming in to save the day from the evil supremacists of Europe. Not that hard to believe. Immivasion is the key to engineering the white nationalism, that triggers the war, that triggers the return or maintenance of US dominance. And magically all the debt gets wiped out.

All nationalist countries in the US govt eyes are potential enemies. "Freedom" means nothing more than open finance. Much easier to legally buy up all the politicians, all the media of the various countries, and get them to do what you want and pretend its "freedom". So "nationalization" of industry being evil is less to do with the likely inefficiencies involved and more to do with making it easy for global financial elites to control other countries and their resources. If you disagree your a communist, a socialist, a denier of freedom. All utter lies, the US govt loves socialism if it benefits those that matter. It only loves free finance when it suits it. This new big hidden trade agreement by their own logic is international communism. Poland nationalizing their press means nothing more than keeping predatory outside interests, in this case the US, and more conspiratorially the Jewish elite, out of their media.

Its no surprise that "nationalist" and free trade questioner Donald Trump is so hated by this elite. He's meant to be one of them, what a traitor!

When push comes to shove the majority of people, particularly in softened up western countries with all their vitality destroying mod cons (like zoo animals), will give up everything for security and safety because the majority of people are rabbits not wolves. And when big leaders tell them to follow they just will, their question being "will you make me safe". They won't care about "culture" or "race". I see the US people unifying behind their leaders if war is coming, won't mean those multiculti problems will go away but suspended in the face of the common enemy. And what better way to bring the races together a good old fashioned war.

Blogger Eric Castle January 21, 2016 12:48 PM  

@46

Yes because everything is a zero sum game and if it is broken you completely reject everything about it, even the working parts. Oh, wait, that is ridiculously stupid!

If your car has an inherent design flaw and is prone to breakdown you might be able to replace a defective part or you might have to replace it. But you don't HAVE to replace it with a canoe. The proven working parts like say the wheels can still be used in a new vehicle.

Anonymous Broheim January 21, 2016 12:52 PM  

Poland has a strong military culture where soldiers are respected by the nation as a whole.

Sending mounted calvary against Panzers WAS pretty badass.

Blogger skiballa January 21, 2016 1:00 PM  

@46

Sure, I'll reject the 2nd Amendment, it has obviously failed after all, seeing as how it was designed to protect against infringement and hasn't.

It doesn't, however, give any rights, only recognizes a long standing aspect of English Common Law, so I'll also be keeping my guns.

Why don't you try the "only the militia" argument too.

Anonymous Joe January 21, 2016 1:05 PM  

"Sending mounted calvary against Panzers WAS pretty badass."

That's a myth. You must be a lefty.
http://www.historynet.com/1939-polish-cavalry-vs-german-panzers.htm

Anonymous Joe January 21, 2016 1:08 PM  

"As late as January the editor of Poland's largest mainstream newspaper quipped that the incumbent Komorowski, aligned with the ruling party, would have to run over a disabled pregnant nun while drunk to fail to win the presidential election."

Please don't use left wing speech. Gazeta Wyborcza is the equivalent of the British The Guardian and is a left wing paper. PiS is not an ultraconservative party. They are centrist. Tusk's PO is left of centre.

Anonymous Joe January 21, 2016 1:13 PM  

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2015/12/washington_post_writer_bungles_poland.html

For those interested in understanding what's happening in Poland lately.

Blogger SciVo January 21, 2016 1:18 PM  

Ryan @27: ... I believe suffrage is really the factor here, rather than birthdate. Women's bad behavior began to really influence society - they had been turned loose to drink, smoke, cheat, work, borrow, and to vote for men who pander to women's desires.

Today, Robert Stacy McCain referenced an 1871 essay that predicted all this would happen, in Women's Rights Women by Robert Dabney. I haven't finished reading it, but check this out:

"When the family shall no longer have a head, and the great foundation for the subordination of children in the mother's example is gone; when the mother shall have found another sphere than her home for her energies; when she shall have exchanged the sweet charities of domestic love and sympathy for the fierce passions of the hustings; when families shall be disrupted at the caprice of either party, and the children scattered as foundlings from their hearthstone requires no wisdom to see that a race of sons will be reared nearer akin to devils than to men. In the hands ,of such a bastard progeny, without discipline, without homes, without a God, the last remains of social order will speedily perish, and society will be overwhelmed in savage anarchy."

His accuracy from 145 years ago is disturbing, because he also predicted this, and I can't disagree:

"Its certain result will be the re-enslavement of women, not under the Scriptural bonds of marriage, but under the yoke of literal corporeal force. ... This world is a hard and selfish scene where the weaker goes to the wall."

Anonymous Joe January 21, 2016 1:20 PM  

I don't think Russia is interested in taking any part of Poland. They have enough territory as is, and already the Chinese are eyeing it. They were not able to hold it before. There are no ethnic Russian minorities in Poland either. Russia won't be able to hold Western Ukraine either.

As for Germany, it's funny how the German owned media in Poland tends to hate on the conservative leaning government of Duda/Szydlo.

Anonymous French Therapist January 21, 2016 1:35 PM  

Polish calvary attacks Panzers.

See 3:37

Anonymous TK January 21, 2016 1:46 PM  

@65
What's left-wing about what I have written? Gazeta Wyborcza is mainstream and is the largest newspaper in Poland (second largest if you count the tabloid Fakt). Neither of those descriptors is an endorsement - quite the contrary. They are, of course, left-wing globalists of the worst kind.

Unless you simply mean I should not quote their words, in which case I disagree. The words of pride ought to be quoted right next to the account of the fall, both for education and schadenfreude.

I have not called PiS ultraconservative, but they are certainly right of centre in the Polish context. Which is obviously not an exhaustive or particularly useful description of their programme.

I write the above as a PiS voter, as of the previous two elections at least.

Blogger praetorian January 21, 2016 1:47 PM  

If you truly believe the founders failed, can you still support anything they created?

Don't be autistic, Dave. The founders fucked some stuff up, and got some stuff right.

The train is fine.

Blogger Cataline Sergius January 21, 2016 2:02 PM  

Sending mounted calvary against Panzers WAS pretty badass.

Part of that was a touch of Victory Disease. The Poles had successfully thrown out Trotsky's Army in 1921 using those same tactics.

Blogger Azimus January 21, 2016 2:04 PM  

VD:
Which is why Poland is more likely to become a world leader as the 21st century proceeds


The Poles have demonstrated an extraordinary cultural resilience - Poland popped up in 1919, took on all comers, and established itself as though it had never left the family of nations in the first place.

But strategically, if Poland is the birth-place of return to nationalism, they are in an extremely bad place. I am not an expert by any means, but their economy is highly dependent on feeding "The Beast" of the EU, their birth rates are below the EU average(!), having their own currency can be a two-edged sword, and if/when it comes to blows, Poland has (from what I can see) a competent but small military that is almost entirely import dependent for weapons systems and has no strategic boundaries to speak of except maybe to the south (the unimportant direction).

In Europe - Britain would be far better placed to be the place of rebirth, IMO of course. Followed by Ireland.

Blogger Cataline Sergius January 21, 2016 2:12 PM  

I don't think Russia is interested in taking any part of Poland. They have enough territory as is, and already the Chinese are eyeing it. They were not able to hold it before. There are no ethnic Russian minorities in Poland either. Russia won't be able to hold Western Ukraine either.

The Russians want Poland firmly in their orbit. A lot of that is Neo-Pan-slavism, a lot of it historical inertia. Poland has always been Germany's invasion route in to Russia. I know that sounds stupid now but Eurasia has a long memory.

Not occupied but definitely jumping when Vladimir yells, "frog!"

Take a look at this map from 1914. You will note the complete lack of a Poland.

Anonymous paradox January 21, 2016 2:17 PM  

@46 Dave

If you truly believe the founders failed, can you still support anything they created? Cause if they failed making a working government, can't it be said that amendments also failed? I ask because if you truly believe this it doesn't make sense for you to still support anything they created. Like the 2nd Amendment

Patrick Henry believed the constitution was a failure and wanted a new draft. If it were not for Henry there would be no 2A. Don't conflate a system of government with the founding principles. My 2A rights don't come from the US Constitution, they are from the Creator.

Blogger Skylark Thibedeau January 21, 2016 2:30 PM  

The Polish Cavalry alongside the Saxon Garde du Corps took the Great Redoubt at Borodino.

Anonymous TK January 21, 2016 2:40 PM  

@74
Poland has always been Germany's invasion route in to Russia.

Just to pick a nit - the two World Wars are the only two instances of Germany invading Russia recorded by history. German-Russian rivalry is a relatively new issue, though by now firmly established and here to stay.

That aside I agree with your comment. For their part, the current Polish leadership is not looking forward to cooperating with Putin, though for different reasons than the West.

"Pan-slavic" is generally a dirty word in Poland.

Anonymous That Would Be Telling January 21, 2016 2:59 PM  

@77 TK:

@74
Poland has always been Germany's invasion route in to Russia.


Just to pick a nit - the two World Wars are the only two instances of Germany invading Russia recorded by history.


I am by no means well educated about this region's history, but what about the invasion of the Teutonic Knights that ended in The Battle on the Ice? Immortalized, or so I'm told, by Sergei Eisenstein in 1938 (he's lucky only that film got removed from circulation between 23 August 1939 and 22 June 1941).

Anonymous TK January 21, 2016 3:16 PM  

@78
I have to backtrack a bit to add "through Poland" to be fully correct - the Teutonic state being based on the other side of the Kingdom of Poland as it was, with no direct contact with the rest of Germany.

In any case what I meant was the image of Poland as this open plain armies from the West and East have happily rolled through to beat each other up for centuries is erroneous, and the German-Russian conflict which is now defining for the region only dates to the end of the 19th century.

Blogger Cataline Sergius January 21, 2016 3:42 PM  

Just to pick a nit - the two World Wars are the only two instances of Germany invading Russia recorded by history. German-Russian rivalry is a relatively new issue, though by now firmly established and here to stay.

Wow.

That was embarrassing.

Buy a history book.

Anonymous Hezekiah Garrett January 21, 2016 3:51 PM  

@22

Yes, because the Polish Army fought with their best cavalry tactics against an onslaught of Panzer divisions, dying in droves for their country.

An incredibly courageous action which feckless Americans began to mock as stupidity.

Go fuck one of your frat brothers.

Anonymous Mr. Rational January 21, 2016 4:03 PM  

The last of the politically-left boomers weren't born in 1964, but around 1955.  They were the ones who marched against the Vietnam war and went for Carter over Ford.  Those born 1955-1963 grew up in the chaos of the 70's and helped give Reagan 2 terms, followed by Bush.  It was Boomers' children who started voting in 1992 who helped give us Clinton.

Anonymous TK January 21, 2016 4:05 PM  

@80
My apologies for any ignorance on my part, but other than the ancient Battle on the Ice mentioned by @78 I don't recall many German-Russian conflicts over the centuries, and particularly none where the German side would be the one on the offensive in Russia (the other way around has the Seven Years' War).

But they were together against the Swedes in the Great Northern War, together against France in the war of Polish succession, together against Poland in the partitions, together against the Ottomans in the Great Turkish War, together against Napoleon...

The ancient German-Russian rivalry is not there throughout the centuries. Eurasia may have a long memory, but it does not need one to remember how and when the current tensions arose.

Still, I am open to being proven wrong. My initial nitpick was much more of an outburst of injured national pride than a scholarly argument.

Blogger Cataline Sergius January 21, 2016 4:21 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Dexter January 21, 2016 4:21 PM  

German-Russian rivalry is a relatively new issue

Tell it to Frederick the Great.

Blogger Cataline Sergius January 21, 2016 4:44 PM  

I wasn't looking at it from Poland's point of view I was looking at it from Russia's.

To know a man you must learn his memories. The Russians cried when Stalin died. They cried when Peter the Great died. They cried for Ivan the Terrible.
Once you figure that one out and you have a very good idea of what the Russians are like bone deep.

Blogger Cataline Sergius January 21, 2016 4:45 PM  

And yes, I know that Pan-slavism is dirty word in Poland.

But it isn't in Russia.

Anonymous TK January 21, 2016 5:13 PM  

@84
The German People however DID. And raiding into Russia was something of pass time for them.
Any good sources on such raids? I am legitimately curious.

@84
First Northern War of 1656
I don't recall any part of that taking part in Russia (might be wrong here), never mind Austria and for the most part Brandenburg itself being on the same side as the Russians.

@85
Tell it to Frederick the Great.
Peter III was happy to say it for me (though he was German as well).

@87
But it isn't in Russia.
That's exactly why it is in Poland.

All that said I hope for a peaceful coexistence between Poland and Russia, I dare say Christian civilisation can only benefit from that. Happily realpolitik seems poised to place us on the same side in the near future.

Blogger The Kurgan January 21, 2016 5:22 PM  

Sorry but Poland is never going to be a world leader. Have you met some Polish people?

Anonymous TK January 21, 2016 5:32 PM  

@84
The German People however DID. And raiding into Russia was something of pass time for them.
Any good sources on such raids? I am legitimately curious.

@84
First Northern War of 1656
I don't recall any part of that taking part in Russia, nevermind Austria and eventually Brandenburg herself being on the same side as the Russians.

@85
Tell it to Frederick the Great.
Peter III was happy to say it for me (though he was German as well).

@87
But it isn't in Russia.
That's exactly why it is in Poland.

All that said I hope for a peaceful coexistence and cooperation between Poland and Russia, I dare say Christian civilisation needs it.

Blogger Cataline Sergius January 21, 2016 6:09 PM  

@TK

As you have invoked the rules of this I am now endeavoring to find the text books from my 300 level Russian History course.

I'll post titles and authors to this thread when I find them.

Caveat: I took that course in the late 1980s, this will take a while.

Blogger VD January 21, 2016 7:27 PM  

Sorry but Poland is never going to be a world leader. Have you met some Polish people?

If Poland stays Polish while the rest of the world intermarries with 80-IQ orcs, they will, at the very least, rule Europe.

Blogger great_o'rety January 21, 2016 7:33 PM  

@Cataline: you're gonna teach an educated Pole the intricacies of historical German-Russian relations. Oh, that shall be interesting :)

You, Americans.

OpenID paworldandtimes January 21, 2016 8:08 PM  

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/01/21/obama-is-polands-only-hope/

The Great Satan is already hissing. With rabbit language, no less:

"The Polish government, if it wishes to avoid becoming an international pariah, still has an off-ramp at its disposal."

PA

Blogger Cataline Sergius January 21, 2016 9:08 PM  

@TK

As I cannot find my copy of the Cambridge History of Russia Vol1. Early Rus to 1689. Under the rules of this blog I am forced to withdraw my assertions.

I offer my apologies on this point.

My memories on this subject are dictated by the lectures of a native Russian professor, who left me with belief that Russo-Germanic relations were at their best a love-hate relationship.

Anonymous TK January 21, 2016 10:02 PM  

@94
Apologies accepted, though you may well be right. I will do my best to look the book up myself, thank you for pointing me in that direction.

I don't know that much history beyond what I have learned in school, and that was obviously a Polish perspective. I might well learn something. At the very least it is interesting to compare viewpoints.

For a distinctly Polish perspective which I would consider close to the current leadership:

There is the late 19th century Polish view that fostering anti-German sentiment is just an element of Russian imperial policy, hand-in-hand with Pan-Slavism. They were means of propping up Russian unity, an exercise in nation-building, and an excuse to assert Russian control over other Slavic nations. Imperial Russia, never itself seriously threatened by Germans (to the extent that they had to dig up and mythologise minor conflicts with German crusaders from six centuries prior) pointed at the plight of other Slavs subjected to Germanisation under the German yoke and declared themselves their saviours.

For the Poles this was hypocrisy. Russia was the primary instigator of Poland's partitions (Prussia and Austria were more opportunistic) and was quite keen on the Russification and brutal suppression of her Slavic conquests herself. Historically she was an enemy, and sometimes a German ally in that. But now the Russian ideologues of Pan-Slavism offered that if only the Poles give up their religion, language, and national identity in favour of a Slavic one, Russia would accept them as one of her subjects and liberate them from the cruel Germans who threaten their nation.

The same story would repeat itself, outliving both the collapse of the Tsardom and the World Wars. The Russian Soviets, who happily carved up Poland together with Germany in 1939 and engaged in mass-murder of Polish elites, would then spend half a century posturing as fellow victims, saviours, and eternal allies of Poles against wicked German invaders. The former German territories forced on the Polish puppet would ensure no Polish-German reconciliation would be possible.

NOTE: The above is something of an abridged caricature of just one of several Polish views, one I sympathise with but don't fully agree with.

Blogger Patrikbc January 21, 2016 10:53 PM  

Blow me G!
:)

Anonymous Pelayo Martel January 21, 2016 11:36 PM  

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/01/21/obama-is-polands-only-hope/

Oh yes, Poland (and Hungary, the rest of Visegrád etc) all need help and advice from the amazing, successful Princess Obama.

The funniest part is when they say that unless Poland agrees to the EU suicide plans, it will be "formally cautioned". And then Obama should tell Poland it can't host a NATO conference that could be held anywhere in Europe without making a difference.

So these guys have the genius idea Poland doesn't want Obama to be a mean girl to them, and so to make her (him?) happy, they should let the Muslim hordes in to start robbing, burning, and raping Polish girls like Merkel did for Germany. Who could say no to that?

Blogger Groot January 21, 2016 11:40 PM  

@12. Not hung lee

"Not hung" lee. So sad. So small. Why do they always prance out the neo-fascist, and then go full paleo-fascist?

@19. Sparklehorse:
"You're a moron. Discuss."

I LOLed, but... "Sparklehorse"...?

@26. TK:

Thanks for weighing in. I love the Internet's ability to let us listen to the rarely-heard. It's like reading history, but talking to the actual source. Crazy awesome.

@81. Hezekiah Garrett:
"An incredibly courageous action which feckless Americans began to mock as stupidity. Go fuck one of your frat brothers."

More light, less heat, please. I know nothing of this spat, but it sounds interesting. Give us facts and story. What fascinating shit this blog can dredge up, but only if you put in the work. Do it, I dare you.

@88. The Kurgan:
"Sorry but Poland is never going to be a world leader. Have you met some Polish people?"

I guess, but give us the context. I live in California, so I am aware of solipsism. Don't assume we know. Tell us. What are they like? Give us some color.

Here's an excellent example. Apparently, 90% of the vibrant migrants are animals, straight outta Arabiastan.

Blogger Halifax Donair January 22, 2016 12:33 AM  

@5 No, beloved BUFFALO has stronk spirit.

http://www.buffaloah.com/h/maps/1805.jpg

Anonymous Rolf January 22, 2016 1:46 AM  

Always liked the Poles. Good, solid, honest folks that I can relate too. One of my neighbors is a Polish immigrant. Wish there were more like them in the world. It's one of the reasons that one of my characters is named "Kaminski." If I'm ever president, I think that the Polish pres is one of the first handful of people I'd invite to the Whitehouse.

Blogger rho January 22, 2016 2:52 AM  

Always liked the Mexicans. Good, solid, honest folks that I can relate too. One of my neighbors is a Mexican immigrant. Wish there were more like them in the world. It's one of the reasons that one of my characters is named "Sanchez." If I'm ever president, I think that the Polish pres is one of the first handful of people I'd invite to the Whitehouse.

Let's see the UK VD commentariat weigh in on Poles.

It'd be new and relevant to me.

Blogger Phillip George January 22, 2016 3:07 AM  

Polish fighter pilots helped save Britain. No pussies. If blood sweat tears and loyalty amount to a pinch of shit they'll stand by them.

Blogger Unknown January 22, 2016 4:26 PM  

@101, @102 I've met Poles like that, haven't met any Mexicans like that yet. That suggests to me that Poles who make good neighbors are a higher percentage of their population than Mexicans who make good neighbors are of theirs. Of course, for my personal sample, N=small, so the variance of any inferences is likely to be large.

Blogger Azimus January 22, 2016 4:53 PM  

103. Phillip George January 22, 2016 3:07 AM
Polish fighter pilots helped save Britain. No pussies. If blood sweat tears and loyalty amount to a pinch of shit they'll stand by them.


Historically the Poles were shockingly loyal, to the point of throwing their lives away. I remember an account in David Chandler's Campaigns of Napoleon where in 1807-08 Spanish Army was holding a small mountain (more like large boulder-strewn hill) alongside the main axis of the French Army's advance. Napoleon himself oversaw the French attack on the Spanish. If memory serves there were 7,000 Spanish troops on the mountain. The French were humiliated and thrown back. Napoleon in a rage turns to his personal bodyguard, a squadron of Polish Lancers, and commands them to attack - and capture - the mountain. The account isn't detailed of their wild and enthusiastic charge, but if I recall correctly they nearly captured the peak of the mountain before being killed to the last man.

Blogger Giuseppe The Kurgan January 23, 2016 8:21 PM  

If Poland stays Polish while the rest of the world intermarries with 80-IQ orcs, they will, at the very least, rule Europe.

Maths doesn't work out:

80 (orc) + 100 (euro) ~ 90 IQ half-orc

80 (pole) + 80 (pole) ~ 80 IQ pole

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