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Saturday, January 23, 2016

SJWs in tech

"Women in Tech" is not only code for "SJWs in Tech", but it is a massive waste of resources and it is extremely harmful to the women who are coerced and encouraged to waste their lives doing something for which they have neither the interest nor the commitment:
Supreme Dark Lord ‏@voxday
No individual with a useful skill set capable of delivering needs to be babied or coerced into working.

Supreme Dark Lord ‏@voxday
You do women a terrible disservice by trying to convince those who are not seriously interested in the field to enter it.

Jennifer Medina ‏@JenniferJMedina
You do everyone a terrible disservice by discouraging every human being from being introduced to more of what life has to offer.

Supreme Dark Lord ‏@voxday
You're wrong. I save those people years of their lives and thousands of dollars by showing them what it ACTUALLY involves.

Jennifer Medina ‏@JenniferJMedina
I don't give a flying fuck about your anecdotal evidence. Your personal views and life are not on the table of discussion here.

Wrongfan ‏@Badthincks
I am a STEM woman (mathematics) and he is right.  In fact I spent years trying to push girls into STEM.

Wrongfan ‏@Badthincks
It's a waste of time to try and push ANYONE into something they have no genuine inclination for.
Considering how there are already far too many PhDs for the number of positions available, and that there are already 1,000 people applying for 12 game development positions, it should be obvious that encouraging uninterested women to go into a field where they are almost guaranteed to go unemployed is reprehensible.
Stats provided by Creative Skillset show that in 2014, 60 universities and colleges offered 215 undergraduate and 40 master video game courses. The most recent stats available, courtesy of the Higher Education Statistics Agency for the 2012/2013 academic year, show that 3,125 students were taking games as a subject of study.

Compare this with the 620 studios in the UK, according to TIGA, and you can see the difficulties studios face when lending experience in such a highly competitive field. Lenton says a local studio in  Leamington Spa, which houses around up to 300 staff, recently had over 1,000 applications for a dozen places.
What are the chances that a girl who required hand-holding and cheerleading just to get her to pay any attention to the industry in the first place is going to be talented and driven enough to beat out the 98.8 percent of highly competitive young men and women who want nothing more than to make games?

That's not career advice. That's a fantasy novel.

Labels: ,

93 Comments:

Blogger Giuseppe The Kurgan January 23, 2016 8:07 AM  

FATALITY!

Blogger JACIII January 23, 2016 8:13 AM  

Feelbads, Vox, always with the feelbads.

Such a Debbie Downer.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan January 23, 2016 8:17 AM  

WIT seems like mean girls being mean girls but with a smiley face

Blogger Mr.MantraMan January 23, 2016 8:24 AM  

Odds that Jenny baby can describe her position in dialectic?

Blogger Lovekraft January 23, 2016 8:37 AM  

Women have been brought up in oldmedia propaganda which saturates everything. They have to be proud and strong, with no reflection as to what it requires.

Blogger JACIII January 23, 2016 8:38 AM  

There is nothing wrong with STEM pursuit by chicks. Except the resources being wasted on them rather than on more potentially productive males.

For every chick who spends the summer after her high school senior year exercising a social boner by running around answering "engineering" to "What are you majoring in?" before changing to "international relations" or "interior design" or (best case) "safety engineering" or "environmental engineering" there is at least one young fella who never got the opportunity to start the program and 5 guys who were deprived of academic assistance. All because some girl wanted to pretend she was something she can't be.

Blogger Lovekraft January 23, 2016 8:38 AM  

Borrowed a tv antenna and had one Canadian channel on this week. Horrible. Saw two 'sitcoms' where women hit a man for badfeelz. Two gay guys in bed in an Ikea commercial. And of course the usual race-mixing. Horrible. Sending it back today.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer January 23, 2016 9:00 AM  

Unless you are incredibly talented, STEM fields are a bad bet for employment. Jobs that aren't outright outsourced overseas are being filled with H1B visa holders. But since we are one big global community, why shouldn't tech oligarchs be able to reduce costs through reducing wages? Nationalism is bad after all.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer January 23, 2016 9:02 AM  

So, if you weren't already programming in grade school or doing meaningful experiments or math problems just because, you really don't need to go into a STEM field.

Blogger Cataline Sergius January 23, 2016 9:11 AM  

Wrongfan ‏@Badthincks
It's a waste of time to try and push ANYONE into something they have no genuine inclination for.


It's even worse to grease the skids for the untalented and unable.

Fifteen years ago, Michigan State University had a Veterinary school that was routinely rated between first and at worst third in the the entire world.

ONE SJW got put in charge of the admissions office at the Vet school. She routinely steps on the rope to get women, minorities and worst of all imbecilic SJW animal rights activists into the program.

If that wasn't bad enough she also raises that rope over her head for Cis-gendered white males and any other brand of conservative come to that.

The school's large animal program (which is in fact the real reason State has this program in the first damn place) is in complete fucking shambles because SJW vets only want to play with kittens and bunnies.

Today, MSU's Vet school is rated at thirteenth in the country.

And it only took one SJW in the right place to do all that damage.

Anonymous Wilbur Hassenfus January 23, 2016 9:21 AM  

Nobody's saying the girls they push into STEM will be competing for real STEM jobs. If you hire one non-productive affirmative action hire for every five programmers, that's a huge win for social justice. The belief is that there's enough excess wealth being generated that you can just sign over x% of it to women and the industry won't bleed to death.

They're right, as far as that goes. A tapeworm won't kill you.

It'll be acutely painful for the guys going the actual work, but real STEM people are nerds in a feedlot so nobody cares.

Anonymous Ryan January 23, 2016 9:28 AM  

A friend who is running out the clock at Lockheed told me about a young black woman who was assigned to his project.

He found she was not able to calculate cubic yards because a) she didn't understand the concept of volume b) she didn't know there were 3 feet in a yard and c) she rolled her eyes and didn't care.

They had to find something else for her to do. I think she inventories the pencils and paper clips now.

At $70K per year.

Anonymous That Would Be Telling January 23, 2016 9:30 AM  

@8: And Cruz wants to increase the H-1B quota from 65,000 to 325,000 per year†, which doesn't include the university affiliated exemptions which double the numbers issued (135,991 in FY2012). These modern day indentured servants can stay here for 6 years, and another attraction is employers will sponsor Green Cards (requiring a restart of the process if you switch firms). There's also a great deal of cheating with L-1 visas.

To be blunt, in the late '80s the US government science establishment decided they were paying too much for grunt labor and started priming the pump in every way, and those employing engineers and programmers gladly joined the game.

Programming also suffers from terrible ageism, few can maintain conventional careers when they're 35-40 years old, for many, just when they hit their productivity peak due to experience, unless they become consultants, get security clearances, or work in a few fields where grey hairs are respected, generally because the costs of failures are paid in blood (but that doesn't include US car manufacturers).

My recommendation from being in the field for four decades is that unless you have both serious talent and a calling, stay out of this infamously poorly managed field (and fairly steadily getting worst that way). With the caveat that in our Great Recession it has become "less worse" than many other previously favored ones, which appears to have reversed the severe crash in CS major enrollments after the dot.com bust.

† Technically, after Cruz scrubbed his press releases about the H-1B quota expansion he proposed a "six month moratorium" on H-1B visa issuance ... which I'll note wouldn't change the numbers issued per year, just delay their issuance. As me and some friends in the field note, we'd prove the concept of false consciousness if we vote for him.

Anonymous O.C. January 23, 2016 9:34 AM  

> It's a waste of time to try and push ANYONE into something they have no genuine inclination for.

Their time, yes, and down the road, many potential future employer's time. But if the objective is to a.) make the current unemployment numbers look better by taking them out of the labor pool, b.) give otherwise unemployable leftists steady jobs on the faculties of podunk universities, and c.) saddle the students with so much tuition debt that they're virtually guaranteed to vote for any politician who promises to erase that debt, then yes, the plan is working brilliantly.

Blogger Derek Kite January 23, 2016 9:36 AM  

6. It isn't 'can't be'. It is don't want to be.

In what I do, a technical trade, there are very few women. This in spite of decades of pushing 'women in trades'. Why? No rational woman would want to do what we do. Or very few. and there are the odd things that we do that most women would have trouble doing.

Two anecdotes. I was doing a simple job in a workplace filled with women who work far harder than I do. I was up a ladder with something heavy, a routine item in what we do. One of the women suggested she take it when I was coming down. It almost knocked her over. It was a surprise; these women are fit and could out ski or hike me any day.

A second anecdote was the crew on a construction project. The foreman was about the same height as me, 5'8 but had another 50lbs of muscle. Built like a brick. The other guys were taller, all strong. The work requires strength, technical ability, living out on the road for months at a time, irregular shifts. Fun, satisfying work that pays well, but few men are up to it. Even fewer women would be capable, and of those only someone following their dad's footsteps would even want to. Why waste ten years of your life becoming competent at something you don't want to do? This advice applies to men as well.

Blogger VD January 23, 2016 9:36 AM  

So, if you weren't already programming in grade school or doing meaningful experiments or math problems just because, you really don't need to go into a STEM field.

I wouldn't say grade school, but I would say that is true by high school. Almost every good programmer I know was messing around with it by the time he was 14 or 15. How is someone who wasn't even interested or curious ever going to compete with those who have already mastered at least part of the trade?

Especially if they are already at a cognitive disadvantage?

Blogger CM January 23, 2016 9:44 AM  

What are the chances that a girl who required hand-holding and cheerleading just to get her to pay any attention to the industry in the first place is going to be talented and driven enough to beat out the 98.8 percent of highly competitive young men and women who want nothing more than to make games?

Why I'm not doing it anymore.

I started as a math major and switched my major 3x in the first 2 years because I didn't enjoy it and thought I was really bad at it. Either because of genuine aptitude or fudged grades, I got As in all my math courses and finished out with Math and CS.

Worked at LM for 3 years and now a SAHM. I had NO ambition for work in general. All my goals revolve around home & family. Why change who I am to be what I'm not?

I do have a natural aptitude for math (enough people don't get basic algebra, its not hard to be better than everyone else) that I'll use for my kids. And CS will be used for odd & end projects that bring in extra cash.

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr January 23, 2016 9:45 AM  

Engineering is a calling. It either is in your soul or it isn't. A woman (or man) in that field without total commitment will fail.

@8 Ron: This is why I strongly advise anyone doing programming to get onto military programs. H1B visa holders can't get a clearance.

Blogger CM January 23, 2016 9:46 AM  

He found she was not able to calculate cubic yards because a) she didn't understand the concept of volume b) she didn't know there were 3 feet in a yard and c) she rolled her eyes and didn't care.

Every woman should know (b).

I'm so sexist.

Anonymous Shut up rabbit January 23, 2016 9:49 AM  

...where they are almost guaranteed to go unemployed...
But still less so than their male counterparts due to employers continuing the preferential treatment...

Anonymous That Would Be Telling January 23, 2016 9:50 AM  

@16: For science, I'd say you should have "the spark" in grade school as I did, but that was in a different time when science was still cool, Johnny Quest was a prime time major network show in its first run (I watched it second run on Saturday mornings), the Apollo program was really big, and I was exposed to things like the Frank Capra Bell Science films. And had the occasional competent in science elementary school teacher.

Programming is a bit different, there's the concept of "process" that really distinguishes those who can do it ... as for age, I can't really say from my own experience since it wasn't until I was a junior that I could even get access to a computer. But from the people who used Logo with children, they said there were barriers to doing real programming that required more mental maturity for the more serious stuff that didn't necessarily develop in grade school, but all my knowledge of this is from the '80s before computers were totally ubiquitous thanks to Moore's Law (for example, if you have access to a web browser, you've got the equivalent of BASIC on a PC with the Javascript engine embedded in it even before doing anything with servers it can access if hooked to the net).

Certainly if someone isn't doing it for fun and so on by high school they should do something else with their life.

Blogger robinintn January 23, 2016 9:51 AM  

What is that fool woman yammering on about, "introduced to more of what life has to offer"? There's a place for that; it's called high school. Struggling through even the intro the math and science classes sent me to a great career writing copy. Imagine if I'd wasted years and $$$ on the stuff I was awful at. How cruel and destructive.

Blogger praetorian January 23, 2016 10:25 AM  

STEM fields are a bad bet for employment

The insanity is that the people pushing women into Game Dev are picking possibly the worst industry of a bad lot, just because "We *fucking love* video games!"

It's well known amongst self-aware programmers that the gaming industry is an absolute meat grinder. A company I consult for shares a building with a big gaming company in Foster City, and the elevator rides up look like a scene from Left 4 Dead: Special Autiste Edition.

Even if one of my sons or nephews had a soaring talent for that style of programming, and even if they were deeply passionate about gaming and even if I had good contacts in the industry to steer them into an environment that wasn't completely filled with savants and sociopaths, I would have very long conversations with them about the realities of the industry and other options for applying their talents.

These children have no idea.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer January 23, 2016 10:32 AM  

Grade school maybe a little young for programming, but before Y2K I was routinely working with 18 - 19 year olds who were good Windows programmers. Obviously they must have started programming at 14 - 15 years old.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan January 23, 2016 10:33 AM  

Twitter better hire some of that awesome estrotech because The Donald tweeted "White Genocide" and the left is not happy. And a note as far as I know white sooooopremicis is not boycotting the Oscars

Blogger Melampus the Seer January 23, 2016 10:38 AM  

A fantasy romance novel.

Blogger Seneca January 23, 2016 10:45 AM  

Vox, I've thought that the discipline of theology also, like the S.T.E.M. sciences, is not naturally attractive to the vast majority of women. Do you have an opinion about women and the theological disciplines?

Anonymous Philalethes January 23, 2016 10:46 AM  

You do everyone a terrible disservice by discouraging every human being from being introduced to more of what life has to offer.

Note always the same subtext: "Women can't ever have/do what we want because nasty old men won't let us!!"

I don't give a flying fuck about your anecdotal evidence.

Horrors! Shocking! A foul-mouthed woman! Why, she must be really Strong and Independent. Not to mention unable to argue a point based on facts and information – in a field where getting your facts (i.e. code) wrong even one iota is suicide.

As I grow older and lose interest in the Golden Wazoo, the hormonal fog dissipates and I find I have very little interest in spending any serious time with women. A handful seem to be willing to bring some intelligence to the exchange (to start with, anyway), but most are simply a waste of time and attention. Moar Stuff!

"Estrotech": Kudos.

Blogger tz January 23, 2016 10:51 AM  

@11 even the women of yesteryear knew what a yard was because they could sew.

The problem is misstated. STEM isn't something "learned", or that portion which is learn-able is not the core. I expect the companies that replaced their staffs with H1-Bs to learn this the hard way.

The best analogy might be music. Either you have a musical ear and mind and understand melody and harmony in a way few others can, or you can just appreciate music.

The Maker mentality is equally rare - where you are creative, curious, need to understand at a deep level, and want to fix, transform, optimize.

Coding a clearly stated problem is easy. Clearly stating it is hard, impossible for most.

Being smart and inventive, but not so much in social situations, it is not so much SJW entry-ism but rather plain solipsism. They don't know that the ability to think at their levels isn't common to all mankind. It takes a few times having their conversation partner's eyes glaze over to get the message. There are SJWs, but usually they aren't smart and few have the capacity to contribute to the advanced sections of things like the Linux kernel. That was a shield for a while - the lack of maker/hacker SJWs. Now that there are a few, the Makers are engineering appropriate detection measures defenses.

The most comic thing is the SJW's are getting hurt feels, but the makers are just being dispassionately rational like they were when they found ways of cleaning up memory leaks and buffer overflows. The SJW's only weapon is feelings, so when it is met with Cold reason they screech and sulk, and tweet nasty but irrelevant things. It really is nothing personal. If makers were being attacked by a herd of vampires requesting to suck the life out of them, they would just install full coverage, battery backed sun-lamps and go about their business after the distraction with plans for holy-water moats and such in the back of their minds. Beneath contempt.

Anonymous Philalethes January 23, 2016 10:54 AM  

@27: Vox, I've thought that the discipline of theology also, like the S.T.E.M. sciences, is not naturally attractive to the vast majority of women. Do you have an opinion about women and the theological disciplines?

Have you been following Aurelius Moner at RoK? Start here: Why Theology Is A Man’s Discipline.

Blogger JDC January 23, 2016 10:56 AM  

My father in law is a large animal vet, grad from MSU. You two could have a fun conversation.

Blogger VD January 23, 2016 10:59 AM  

an environment that wasn't completely filled with savants and sociopaths

You say that like it's a bad thing. That's exactly what makes it so fun and exciting!

Blogger praetorian January 23, 2016 11:03 AM  

50 keks, my tithe to the dark lord.

Blogger praetorian January 23, 2016 11:13 AM  

And CS will be used for odd & end projects that bring in extra cash.

God bless your family.

Have as many kids as you can, and then one more.

Anonymous RedJack January 23, 2016 11:13 AM  

Two weeks ago, they promoted a young woman with no experience to be my manager (literally no experience). The reason? Girls need to be pushed into the field.

Of course, I used some of the rules Vox has posted in the past about surviving an SJW attack at work, and went on a full on active job search 45 minutes later. I have three interviews next week. The plant head is very concerned that if I leave, the precious little snowflake will have to do the work herself. And she can't. She doesn't have any desire to do so. She (and her mom the HR director) wanted more diversity in the business. Well, they got it. The Snowflake has realized over the last week that they just angered one of the guys who actually makes the plant money (we are the only one in our business unit that does), and that if I leave, all the knowledge goes with me. I was not surprised, and her mom was quite open about how she wanted her daughter to "succeed".

In short, I have been playing the black knight at work. Except for the massive disruption to my family if we move, I am very excited to get out. I am more excited to work for the competitor and bury them.

So, thanks Vox. I am a Delta that just got betrayed by his team. And that makes me a rather interesting thing to be. A team player, who is now playing against the team whose colors he wears (for the moment). I find it interesting that the attack was based only on who I was friends with and not friends with at work (I don't have the equipment or inclination to do what she is rumored to do), and that came up in the interview. They couldn't argue from my performance, as my last review had high marks on it from three weeks ago.

In the long run this will hurt Snowflake. She will hire up another person connected to her, and in the position she is in that will risk massive failure. The BU is very aware of what is going on, and while it will not stop my exit, they have already begun an investigation on some things. Snowflake was a good tech. She would be an excellent sales person (her base skill set). She is not an engineer, doesn't want to be one, and has no idea what they do. To her credit, she is starting to see that the job is more than a title and a paycheck, and her new boss is very demanding. I give it 18 months till they either move her again, or there is a massive reorg at the unit.

Blogger tz January 23, 2016 12:25 PM  

A more fundamental problem is the coddling and sense of entitlement, worse for women. Feral or even protected men eventually can figure things out and survive, their lower brains are pre-programmed. Women seem to take civilization, food, support, as a given and rarely have to do anything hard, dirty, or challenging. Rural girls that have to do things take care of livestock, and may even have to catch a chicken to turn into dinner get a more balanced view.

I bring this up because feminists and libertarians both seem to take western civilization and people acting civilized as a given, not a gift from Christendom. I just replied to an article titled "Anarchy Works" (anarchocapitalism - zero government). Where do the rape and kill mobs in Sweden, Cologne, Hamburg, and Paris fit into the mental model of feminists and this school of libertarians?

Freedom is rare as it only is possible among a moral people, and they must be willing to defend that freedom even at some cost including the willingness to use violence, which cannot be in merely theoretical terms.

Blogger L. Jagi Lamplighter Wright January 23, 2016 12:42 PM  

I completely agree!!!

Holding nthe door open to an eager seeker is one thing.

Pushing someone through the door is entirely different!

No one should go into these areas who is not consumed with the desire to do so!

OpenID denektenorsk January 23, 2016 12:45 PM  

Software development is hard, and games development is often harder (smaller budgets, tighter time lines and less forgiving funders in general). As 'That Would Be Telling' pointed out SW development is incredibly poorly managed and if anything, games are worse (because way too often producer types convince themselves that we are making "something different" and throw out what few good practices have developed within the larger SW development community). Yes, we are making games, but we are also making SW so ignore your good programmers at the projects peril.

I took to heart some advice a summer job boss gave me "You'll always have work as long as you are the best in your field". If you are not willing to put in the time, do not have the general tenacity and perserverance to solve problems that no one else will or can solve then let me save you a lot of wasted time and money: find employment elsewhere.

I also took as a challenge a 2nd year university proof (who in the early 90's) said none of you will get into video game programming, so if that is why you are here quit now. Can you imagine the butt hurt if someone said that today? My FU to him is I've been programming games for 20 years this summer.

Games programming has enough idiots who make work for the good ones - we don't need anymore. If you don't have drive, determination, passion are are not willing to learn from those of use who have shipped multiple projects then look elsewhere.

Companies who hire people based on gender or skin tone are not helping themselves. You want people who are smart and get sh#t done.

Anonymous Xstella January 23, 2016 12:47 PM  

"but it is a massive waste of resources and it is extremely harmful to the women who are coerced and encouraged to waste their lives doing something for which they have neither the interest nor the commitment:"

This is ignorant, bullshit, and a perfect example of why Vox Day is forced to self publish.

OpenID denektenorsk January 23, 2016 12:48 PM  

*us, not use.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan January 23, 2016 12:53 PM  

How many people has Jenny Baby hurt with her poor advice and how many more people shall she allowed to hurt?

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer January 23, 2016 12:56 PM  

@41

So women should be coerced and encouraged to do things they have no interest in or commitment to?

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer January 23, 2016 12:57 PM  

sorry, that was addressed to comment #40

Blogger Geir Balderson January 23, 2016 1:09 PM  

Jennifer Media has an extreme potty mouth. Doesn't she understand that the F-work objectivizes and degrades young women of her persuasion? She must be of low intelligence to speak in such a manner.

Blogger Geir Balderson January 23, 2016 1:14 PM  

@12 Ryan

"At $70K per year."

Diversity only enriches the diverse. The Host becomes much poorer.

Anonymous randomperson January 23, 2016 1:19 PM  

hey,

on the linux foundation thread, they refer to vox as "that man". damn, that's pretty cool. they used to call fdr that as well, probably called robert e lee that way.....

Blogger bob k. mando January 23, 2016 1:44 PM  

37. L. Jagi Lamplighter Wright January 23, 2016 12:42 PM
I completely agree!!!


careful, careful.

before you know it, we'll convert you into a hetero-patriarchal cisgendered shitlord abiding on your throne of SJW skulls ...

and then how will you get your skiffy published?

Anonymous patrick kelly January 23, 2016 1:51 PM  

I tell young aspiring game developers/programmers/etc. to make a f-ing game or at least make a significant contribution to one before every talking to someone about hiring them. They are competing with people who can do that, probably already have and are making money from it online somewhere.

Otherwise it's kinda' like auditioning for a band/gig when you have never performed in public or released anything you recorded for public consumption.

We hired a young kid like that recently, just a couple of years out of high-school, no degree, but had been writing games for fun for a few years. Even he is terrified of working in the game industry so he does safer, boring stuff with us.

(disclosure: I'm a bitter, cynical ex-game-industry development barely has-been who regularly exaggerates quite a bit).

Blogger michaeloh59 January 23, 2016 1:57 PM  

Have debated Jennifer Medina last year. She is pro GG but not pro-rational. I doubt she codes, or codes well because she doesn't debate well.

OpenID denektenorsk January 23, 2016 2:04 PM  

@39

"but it is a massive waste of resources and it is extremely harmful to the women who are coerced and encouraged to waste their lives doing something for which they have neither the interest nor the commitment:"

This is ignorant, bullshit, and a perfect example of why Vox Day is forced to self publish.


I have NO interest in becoming a nurse. how much time and effort would you spend to convince me to enter that field in the interest of diversity and/or gender equality?

Should there be quotas? Perhaps the fire fighter quotas like Sweden has where it has come to light that some female firefighters fail the timed tests (they cannot cut down a door with an axe or life (IIRC) 180 pounds to safety). In the interest of disclosure I doubt I could lift 180lbs on my shoulder and carry it out of a building, but then again I'm not whining to be let onto the fire fighting force either.

Might I suggest you watch this video entitled "Gender Paradox" that actually has some research into the topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E577jhf25t4&list=PLd9_g7lAICxtlGbxh4_z8ik178o8CDPnv

OpenID denektenorsk January 23, 2016 2:04 PM  

*lift not life. My typing today...

Blogger robinintn January 23, 2016 2:10 PM  

@49
Don't waste you're efforts on that chick. If she were capable of reasoning, she wouldn't be vomiting up the gibberish she posted.

Anonymous Shut up rabbit January 23, 2016 2:11 PM  

@35. RedJack
Good luck to you. We put up with so much shit at work for "reasons". If something is pushing you to move, listen to it and go or you will be stuck in hell until something worse comes along and makes moving on inevitable.

Blogger The Other Robot January 23, 2016 2:21 PM  

Programming also suffers from terrible ageism, few can maintain conventional careers when they're 35-40 years old, for many, just when they hit their productivity peak due to experience, unless they become consultants, get security clearances, or work in a few fields where grey hairs are respected, generally because the costs of failures are paid in blood (but that doesn't include US car manufacturers).

I suspect that that is mostly because they have access to this relatively enormous stream of cheap young programmers from overseas.

Of course, the cost of managing them and correcting their mistakes is never factored in.

Blogger The Other Robot January 23, 2016 2:23 PM  

This is ignorant, bullshit, and a perfect example of why Vox Day is forced to self publish.

That cock you have been sucking must have blown the brains out of your head.

Anonymous Shut up rabbit January 23, 2016 2:33 PM  

@39. Xstella
Xstella (is that your brony name?), you are fat, you are ugly and you are dumb. No one will ever, ever love unless you change. So why make it worse for yourself by coming here and opening yourself to the ridicule of your intellectual, spiritual and physical superiors?

Vox self publishes because he wants to. End of story. The gatekeepers model of stocking dead trees is over, you have to be a drooling idiot (which clearly you are) to believe anything different.

You could have wasted those words at "Makingwater" or "file666" and have had fellow polyamorous diabeetus sufferers crawling up your arse to tell how "brave" and "special" you are. Instead you chose to come here to loose your incontinent drivel, proving to all the world the true level of your retardation.

May god have mercy on your soul!

Anonymous BigGayKoranBurner January 23, 2016 2:33 PM  

No individual with a useful skill set capable of delivering needs to be babied or coerced into working

I wish people could be coerced into working, instead of sitting around drinking coffee chatting on the clock.

there's enough excess wealth...just sign over x% of it to women and the industry won't bleed to death

In 1993 Forbes published the cost of affirmative action a 4% of the GDP. The problem is not the non working affirmative actions but the ones that muddle the work that needs fixing. Spending 1/2 hour a day per affirmative action employee fixing easily avoidable mistakes will turn anyone into a race realist. Think of how bad it would be if white gay men didn't count toward die verse city quotas.

b) she didn't know there were 3 feet in a yard and c) she rolled her eyes and didn't care...Every woman should know (b).

Do you really need to be told Not All Blacks Are Like That?

27 Secna Vox, I've thought that the discipline of theology also, like the S.T.E.M. sciences, is not naturally attractive to the vast majority of women

In case I ever think about going STR8 in my old age, where do you live that the womenfolk don't enjoy telling people what to do or henpecking men?

Should there be quotas? Perhaps the fire fighter quotas like Sweden has where it has come

Did you miss all the affirmative action horror stories I linked before of women/minority firewatchers/emts in the US that standards got lowered for? The reason that despite the significant number of female first responders existing in NYC on 9-11 not a single one was killed/injured is not because they had force field generators up their vags, but that they ran away.

I have NO interest in becoming a nurse. how much time and effort would you Maybe quotas for STR8 identifying men in nursing, I could go in the closet for a pay raise.

Blogger Anthony January 23, 2016 2:44 PM  

@53, nope. It's mostly natives, sucked in by the startup lottery. Also, lots of these guys are socially poorly functional, and like writers, programming is almost compulsive behavior.

Programming in the U.S. still pays pretty well and has easy working conditions, There aren't a lot of jobs which pay better which don't require really good social skills.

Blogger tz January 23, 2016 2:56 PM  

@56 Technically the womenfolk like telling people what to do everywhere, but that is what having kids is for. It is probably instinctive, so it just needs the proper target. Even if your mother lives to be over 90 she will still try to tell you what to do. It was appropriate and useful when your age was in the single digits. Another diversion is to have the older "wise" women tell the younger women what to do. There is a reason for all the fraternal mens-only clubs. Another useful male attribute is the ability to tune out noise - the wife usually wants to just vent, so it isn't important to actually pay attention much less provide any feedback or try to solve it, just appear to be listening and sympathetic.

Blogger tz January 23, 2016 3:13 PM  

Perhaps a comparison of two Tech/STEM companies.
Sparkfun v.s. Adafruit. Very similar products. Sparkfun founded by a man, Adafruit by a woman.
Sparkfun has more technical info, details, stuff, mathematical engineering, application oriented.
Adafruit is a community - stories, lots of cosplay, more wearables, more google hangouts, more social.
Not good or bad, but they seem to embrace the stereotypes.

Blogger Robert Coble January 23, 2016 3:24 PM  

In my first job as a system programmer for the US Navy, we had to provide "technical support" for the COBOL application programmers, many of whom were affirmative action (secretary to programmer in 2-3 years, with NO programming education, no programming training other than (MAYBE!) one course in COBOL, and ZERO APTITUDE). They had no interest in programming and were USELESS, but they were all"in" for the affirmative action program, because, after all, programming is just glorified typing on a computer keyboard. I was called to "assist" one of these "darlings" with her COBOL program, which wouldn't do what she wanted it to do, and she was CLUELESS as to how to troubleshoot her own program. I despised COBOL anyway, but what the heck, so I started through the program "logic." There were 25,000 SLOC in that monster. I started at the first paragraph and promptly followed a GOTO the last paragraph. There were only about 25 SLOC that were actually used; the rest had been added via "COPY and PASTE" from other peoples programs. The "problem" was totally obvious; I changed a couple of lines of code, recompiled it, and it ran, doing what the "programmer" intended. I was thanked profusely and she went away happy, to claim credit from her affirmative action manager. The next day, I got a call from her, complaining that MY "fix" was breaking her program! (I must have got PEANUT BUTTER on her "CHOCOLATE!") So, I went over to check it out. I have a near-photographic memory for code, especially code I have tweaked or written. SURPRISE: the code was exactly like she had "written" it BEFORE my change. I asked her what happened to my code change. Her answer, verbatim: "I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU DID, SO I CHANGED IT BACK TO WHAT WORKED." I got up and walked away to find my boss. I told him to NEVER, EVER request me to assist with that idiot again. The "funny" thing was that the Navy command kept looking for "opportunities" to advance this woman up through the pay grades, even though she was TOTALLY INCOMPETENT. Gotta have that "diversity," don't you know, at all those higher pay grades!

Blogger VD January 23, 2016 3:32 PM  

This is ignorant, bullshit, and a perfect example of why Vox Day is forced to self publish.

It is actually well-informed, correct, and I don't self-publish. Moreover, I regularly decline publishing offers from established publishers, including Big Five publishers.

Also, you're fat.

Blogger The Other Robot January 23, 2016 3:45 PM  

@57: I suspect you haven't been to Silicon Valley recently.

The workforce is typically 70+% Indian, 15-20% Chinese and a few whites.

The Indians and the Chinese are pretty much all foreign born, and even some of the whites.

Blogger Robert Coble January 23, 2016 3:52 PM  

My last job for Unisys Corp. was to design a program to automatically translate and transfer the data from the City of Los Angeles tax system flat-file database to an Oracle relational database. The assigned "systems analyst" was a female with a MS in Computer Science. (Did I tell you that she had a MS in CS? If not, SHE would certainly tell you in a heartbeat!) She had worked on analyzing the data for nearly TWO YEARS before I was transferred to the project. I started looking at her analysis document (a 300-page MS-Word document), and immediately found all sorts of contradictory "business rules." I wrote some quick programs to analyze the actual data in the flat files, and quickly found all kinds of anomalies. After a few weeks, I was sent out to Los Angeles to discuss the problems with the "analyst." I made a big mistake: I treated her just like any man in that position. In a private meeting with her and one other female subcontractor (and NO ONE from the City of Los Angeles), I told her honestly that she had not done the job right. (It was her first job as an analyst, and she had NEVER written any code outside of her CS classes!!!) I showed her all of the things that she had not even looked at, and why those things were important to an analyst. As soon as that meeting was over, she called the overall project manager and told him that I was harassing her in front of the client! (OH HOW I WISH I HAD A COPY OF SJWAL THEN!!) I got called on the carpet and was nearly fired. The project manager kept insisting that I write the transfer program, while simultaneously insisting that no programming specification was required and would not be provided. The "analyst" would send significant changes to the "rules" 2-3 times per week. That impasse went on for nearly 6 months. Finally, out of sheer frustration, I wrote a program that would analyze her rules document and then write the program to do the actual transfers. At about the one-year point, my technical project manager and I were called to the project manager's office. He wanted to know why I wasn't "done" with the transfer program. I explained that without a stable programming specification, I could not reach closure. When I said that, the technical project manager (a woman) asked how in hell he expected me to write a complex program without any program specification! His response: "He's not finished because he wants to make the "analyst" look bad." After the meeting, I informed the technical program manager about the "solution" I had created, and she let it ride. The project manager came in one day from his "liquid lunch" and lambasted me in front of the entire project. I went home, and told my wife that I was done; I "retired." The funny thing is that nearly a year after I left, the technical lead sent me an email, saying that my "write a program" program had run flawlessly the first time when they ran it. The data transfer went without a hitch.

Career wise: I went to work driving buses and trams for the NC Zoo, and then switched to working in security at the local Mall.

WHO NEEDS THAT KIND OF CRAPPY LIFE?!? Money ain't everything.

Blogger Blastman January 23, 2016 4:03 PM  

Xstella wrote ... "This is ignorant, bullshit, and a perfect example of why Vox Day is forced to self publish."

Vox's opening paragraph is right on point, except for those who have bought into the feminist nonsense and propaganda of equality of the sexes.

Inevitably these promotions of women in STEM fields leads to affirmative action programs where human resource managers put their fingers on the scales to hire women in disproportionate numbers compared to their qualifications. Take a couple of the auto companies …

wardsauto ...

" … He says since 1988, Chrysler's policy has been to make half of its engineering hires minorities or women. At GM 57% of job offers made to engineering students last fall went to minorities and women..."

Are we really to imagine that 57% of the qualified applicants are women and minorities? Yup, and I have a bridge to sell.

These hiring affirmative action programs (read -- hiring discrimination programs against men) at GM have been going on since the 1980's. When you build a company on the hiring and promoting of people for political reasons, rather than excellence and the ability to get the job done -- remember the GM bankruptcy? -- that is what happens. You end up not competing with companies that don't do this type of hiring/promoting, or level of it. If a company starts using gender or ethnicity to press the scales one way in their hiring and promoting practices, then is it using less merit in these -- there is no way around this stubborn fact. The "benefited" groups will be employees that are not as qualified for the job as others, and inevitably, everyone loses as these less qualified people (the favored groups) are put into positions where they fail or perform poorly. This leads to poorer products, a company that makes less money, and maybe even eventually fails. Companies like GM needs to abandon their affirmative action programs to compete with companies and countries that have hiring systems based on more competitive standards.

It's quite obvious that men are more passionate about some fields of endeavor than women for anyone that takes the time to look, and passion = interest = excellence. In my university days I frequently would stay up all night working on various computer problems with a couple of friends. I've never seen a woman in some field of endeavor in the sciences that they would give up so much sleep just to solve problems because they had such and interest and passion in that area. They may exist -- but they are rare.

How many women do you see moding engines, swapping camshafts, installing after-market brakes, shocks, exhaust systems, or installing tripped-up stereo systems? Basically nil. How about women building motorbikes or restoring automobiles from the ground up? Almost nil. How many women do you see that have a real passion/interest for things in engineering/design, such that in their spare time they have hobbies where they build and engineer things? Rare again. Go to just about any auto forum and it's generally 95%+ males or more doing the posting. This shows who has a passion/interest in the auto industry. Go to a technical auto-forum where they are discussing things like camshafts, transmissions, performance modifications, and the gender of the posters will likely be in the area of 99.0%+ male. If men = women in all respects, then where are all the women that have a passion and interest for these things? Something is terribly wrong with the feminist gender equality picture.

Blogger Blastman January 23, 2016 4:04 PM  

Continued ...

Clearly, men are more interested in, and have more passion than women for things that have to do with the intricacies of engineering and automobiles, simply put -- building things. It's what men like to do. So if women in general show no real interest and passion in engineering/design fields in general, and in many of the sciences, how do you expect women to excel in these fields? Women don't have an interest in and cultivate the disciplines such as engineering as men do and therefore are not as suitable as men for these tasks just on that basis alone -- even ignoring the intellectual differences (male-female brain differences which are substantial).

If GM or Intel hires a bunch of women, who in general demonstrate no real interest and passion for engineering/design, it's a recipe for mediocrity. You end up with a bunch of 9-5 women employees, who go home at the end of the day and think about shopping, their next pair of shoes, or what makeup to buy for the next day. Women rarely have any hobbies or extracurricular activities that will relate to their job in an engineering/design capacity.

Blogger xenophon1 January 23, 2016 4:17 PM  

http://godfatherpolitics.com/28062/political-correctness-censoring-unpopular-views-among-sci-fi-authors/

Blogger The Other Robot January 23, 2016 4:19 PM  

My last job for Unisys Corp.

Was that the Univac part of the company or Edgar Rice Borroughs part of the company?

Blogger Robert Coble January 23, 2016 4:28 PM  

@67: "Was that the Univac part of the company or Edgar Rice Borroughs part of the company?"

Not surprisingly, it was the Federal Systems group. I guess that would be the ERB division. . .

Blogger The Other Robot January 23, 2016 4:45 PM  

Not surprisingly, it was the Federal Systems group.

That confuses me, because of this:

My last job for Unisys Corp. was to design a program to automatically translate and transfer the data from the City of Los Angeles tax system flat-file database to an Oracle relational database.

Blogger The Other Robot January 23, 2016 4:48 PM  

I once tended a card reader on a Univac 1100/42.

Blogger Robert Coble January 23, 2016 5:06 PM  

The Unisys Corp. Federal Systems group had their fingers in a lot of pies outside of the Federal system. I worked out of the Technology Solutions Center in Virginia Beach, VA. I have not kept up with Mother Unisys since I left in 2004.

The first Univac 1108 that I programmed on was at the Naval Supply Center, Norfolk, VA. The first job was creating a linking/loader for a Univac 1230 which was driving a Navy simulator. We had to develop engineering mods for the simulator, and we had no Univac 1230 development system, so we used a cross-assembler running on the Univac 1108.

Blogger The Other Robot January 23, 2016 5:17 PM  

The first Univac 1108 that I programmed on was at the Naval Supply Center, Norfolk, VA. The first job was creating a linking/loader for a Univac 1230 which was driving a Navy simulator.

Whoa, that is a funky system. I thought that the Univac 1100 system (including the 1108) was funky with 3 register sets and 36-bit words with 4 register-overlap between two of the register sets.

However, perhaps the weirdest computers I worked on were Pr1me Computer processors, which were an outgrowth of the Honeywell 316 system. They had five instruction sets and you could switch between instruction sets to do different things. I think three of them were real-mode and 2 had VM support.

Anonymous Steve January 23, 2016 5:58 PM  

Not enough Women in Tech.

Number of women in Plumbing, Scaffolding and Sewage Treatment just fine.

Blogger Doc Rampage January 23, 2016 6:37 PM  

Everyone knows that most women can't be truly happy unless they spend their days sitting in a tiny cubicle, staring at a computer screen, analyzing logic and structure, and never talking to anyone. It's like a natural outgrowth of the childbearing function.

Blogger Silly But True January 23, 2016 7:15 PM  

Jeez. Going back nearly 40 years, the videogames industry has been defined by its visionary creators more than anything else: Dan Hitchens, David Crane, Larry Kaplan, Steve Meretzky, Tim Anderson, Richard Garriott, Chris Roberts, Tobias and Boon, Shigeru Miyamoto, John Romero, Hideo Kojima, Andrew Greenberg, Molyneaux... et. al. You could even run the one of the two most gigantic Ponzi schemes in videogames history arguably either Swordquest or Questprobe, and your projects would sell product because your name was Scott Adams or Dan Hitchens. I suppose we should add Star Citizen since that probably eclipses both.

Do these people not know Doom was released as shareware?

Do these people not know Bioware started making great games because the doctors who founded it couldn't find any games they liked playing? So they quit their practice and made Baldur's Gate as their second game.

Are they not watching the massive success on Kickstarter by videogames creators who make a game people are dying to play?

FFS, there's two pieces of the puzzle here: make the game you want to make, and make sure it's a game people want to play. Don't sit around with your thumb up your ass waiting for a fellowship. Many people above bet big, including their own cash. They won because they fit those two pieces together properly.

Silly But True

Anonymous Ollie January 23, 2016 7:43 PM  

"are coerced and encouraged to waste their lives doing something for which they have neither the interest nor the commitment:"

Who dresses you in the morning?

You are the type willing to spout this dribble just up until the time you need a surgeon or lawyer or brilliant coder or business advisor. Then you forget your sexism..,,like so many men.

Anonymous Follie January 23, 2016 8:00 PM  

Yes. Just like in the Movies and TV. And they kick butt, too!

You go, Straw Girl!

Anonymous patrick kelly January 23, 2016 9:07 PM  

@Ollie

Why would I want to be operated on by a surgeon with little or no interest in or commitment to surgery?

Blogger Thucydides January 23, 2016 9:10 PM  

This is much like the two decades long effort to recruit women into Western armies. Despite lowering standards, cheerleading on the part of the command, accelerating promotions for the favoured etc., the fact lis most women have no interest in the Armed Forces, and the lowering of standards to allow women to pass entry standards and training don't encourage women, but do put everyone else at risk.

The few Amazon women who are interested in the Armed Forces as a career, and are capable of handling the physical and mental demands are certainly welcome, (God is on the side of bigger battalions), but there are simply not enough women who can actually fulfill combat roles, and trying to force more women into positions they are not suitable for and mostly are not interested in is a waste of time and resources.

Blogger epobirs January 24, 2016 3:20 AM  

I've been telling kids with game making aspirations since the 80s that there is one item in your resume that trumps everything else: a finished game that is enjoyable to play. At the very least, if you have a specialty, the game must demonstrate that well. If you're an artist the prospective employer will understand if the code is lousy, and if the code is good but the art awful when you have no claims of such ability.

So, shareware. It doesn't matter if you don't make any money on it. It's real experience and proof of your ability. Plus you might just make some money. The one thing that matters is proving you can do something which no amount of university issued paper can serve as better evidence.

Anonymous Shut up rabbit January 24, 2016 3:30 AM  

76. Ollie
These are not the pies you are looking for
PS Grey's Anatomy isn't' real.

Blogger Ahazuerus January 24, 2016 3:57 AM  

"What are the chances that a girl who required hand-holding and cheerleading just to get her to pay any attention to the industry in the first place is going to be talented and driven enough to beat out the 98.8 percent of highly competitive young men and women who want nothing more than to make games?"

Well, if she's young, hot, and not obviously useless, I'd say she's a lock for at least one of the positions. Look at it from the employers point of view; you get a biddable beddable shield who might even, one day, after extensive tutelage, do some work.

Of course you'd want to screen for extreme feminazis characteristics... but with a 1,000 candidates that should not be too hard

Blogger Mark In Mayenne January 24, 2016 5:46 AM  

Nice comment. "Clearly stating (a problem) is hard, impossible for most" How true.

What exactly do we know? What do we believe? What are we assuming? Where are the gaps? Hard hard hard.

Blogger Mark In Mayenne January 24, 2016 6:05 AM  

Nice comment. "Clearly stating (a problem) is hard, impossible for most" How true.

What exactly do we know? What do we believe? What are we assuming? Where are the gaps? Hard hard hard.

Blogger So Meh January 24, 2016 9:10 AM  

your tax money at work...California Style.

"Like," Campos wonders, "where's the Gothed-up princess?"

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/herocomplex/la-et-hc-usc-women-video-game-design-program-20160124-htmlstory.html

Anonymous BigGayKoranBurner January 24, 2016 9:45 AM  

Number of women in Plumbing, Scaffolding and Sewage Treatment just fine.

White women are underrepresented in crack whoring, Soros wants to change that.

You are the type willing to spout this dribble just up until the time you need a surgeon or lawyer or brilliant coder or business advisor. Then you forget your sexism..,,like so many men.

You know women surgeons have to stand for long periods on their periods. Women doctors work far less hours than men even those that didn't take off for maternity. My racism was confirmed when I had a car accident and a black ER doctor thought I had a fracture when I was able to tell by myself that I didn't, the treatment was pretty much the same but with better narcs+ time off/lowered expectations. You will meet 7 dwarves in real life before you will beet a black as smart as seen on TV

I can tell you there is nothing worse than working in an ER with 2 doctors that both try to avoid picking up the next patient. Care to wager what reality is like?

Blogger Md. Ariful Islam January 24, 2016 12:50 PM  

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This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Eric January 24, 2016 11:36 PM  

STEM fields are a bad bet for employment

Sure, but as opposed to what? What is a good bet for employment these days? I would have said the trades, myself, but if you call a plumber in my area an illegal shows up to fix your plumbing. Law looked pretty safe, too, but look at it now.

I agree offshoring and H-1Bs are going to depress wages, but for the time being unemployment among technical types is pretty low, and I sure as hell would rather be writing software than hustling Hyundais.

Anonymous That Would Be Telling January 25, 2016 6:34 AM  

@90 Eric:

Depends on the details. Science and Math are extremely bad bets, have been targeted by the Feds since the late '80s and even back then the least demanding field of biology was grim, don't plan on supporting a family if you choose them. Engineering is an "it depends", you'd have to look at it field by field and much of it is cyclic. "Technology" is rather varied, there are for example many fields needed to keep our modern day factories running.

Computer programming, the one I know best, needs to approached with extreme caution: a CS degree that's not from one of the top four schools in the nation might not be worth the opportunity cost, then again a degree is used as a filtering function by a lot of places even though irrelevant. It can be very hard to get your first job (best be programming FOSS on the side so you have a GitHub portfolio, and the best CS programs have co-op programs that are all but guaranteed to get you real world paid jobs in summers), and unless you're a real superstar your conventional career ends somewhere when you turn 35-40. There are also a lot of people who are just not able to do it for real, but if you can (say, if you can grok pointers and recursion, neither of which is taught at most JavaSchools, nor would I expect them to be taught at the ones that have moved to Python), certainly consider it.

Anonymous Discard January 25, 2016 7:01 AM  

I know a professor of computer science who, as department chair, would see to it that only he or another professor of like mind taught CompSci 101. His purpose was to blow most of the kids out of the program, kindly saving them from wasting their time and money by struggling for a couple years before switching to an easier major.

Anonymous Mr. Rational January 25, 2016 5:41 PM  

@92 Sadly, weeder courses are now considered "racist" because of disparate impact.

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