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Wednesday, January 27, 2016

Trump takes on Fox

Naturally, all of the talking heads who feed at the breasts of Mother Media will angrily denounce Trump's decision not to play along with the enemy and declare his campaign to be self-torpedoed and dead. But it's foolish to use conventional measures to judge the effectiveness of a distinctly non-conventional campaign:
Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump abruptly announced here Tuesday that he would not participate in Thursday’s scheduled debate, escalating his off-and-on feud with Fox News Channel and throwing the GOP campaign into turmoil.

Trump’s assertion, which his campaign manager insisted was irreversible, came less than one week before the kickoff Iowa caucuses. He once again defied the conventional rules of politics, and used his power and prominence to shape the campaign agenda and conversation.

So far, Trump’s untraditional moves have only expanded his support, but his threatened boycott leaves him open to criticism that for all his tough talk he is ducking face-to-face confrontations with his opponents and scrutiny from the Fox moderators.

Given Trump’s past flirtations with boycotting Fox, many will doubt his declaration until they see the other candidates take the debate stage on Thursday night without him.

The Republican debates have become must-see television, in part because of the allure of Trump’s star power and unpredictable candidacy. But he said Tuesday that he thinks Fox and other television networks have been taking advantage of him by selling advertisements for their debates at a high premium...

The debate is scheduled to be in Des Moines on Thursday, and Trump said he would instead host a competing event in the state designed to raise money for wounded veterans.

It would be an unprecedented move if Trump withdrew from the debate at such a consequential moment on the primary calendar.
The media narrative is already stupid; the idea that this is a cowardly move is almost blitheringly out-of-touch; taking on the media directly in this way is far more bold and confrontational than simply showing up on stage again and subjecting oneself to the ridiculous posturing of the moderators.

Trump is actively breaking the power of the institutions and showing them to be paper tigers. Regardless of what his real intentions are, Trump's high-risk, high-reward actions are marvelous theater and serve as an inspiring example. De l'audace, encore de l'audace, toujours de l'audace....

Who but Donald Trump can win a debate by refusing to show up for it?

Labels: ,

278 Comments:

1 – 200 of 278 Newer› Newest»
Anonymous Orville January 27, 2016 8:08 AM  

He is making Reagan's microphone comment in 1980 look like amateur hour, and he does it every week. If you measure communication by effectiveness, Reagan was the great communicator, but Trump is the greatest communicator.

And a hearty Fuck You to the eGOP!

Blogger Nate January 27, 2016 8:08 AM  

meh. He tried this same thing with CNN then caved at the last minute. he'll probably cave this time.

I really don't care either way... all he would do at the debate is pander to iowa farmers about how much he loves ethynol mandates.

Anonymous Anonymous January 27, 2016 8:09 AM  

"We learned from a secret back channel that the Ayatollah and Putin both intend to treat Donald Trump unfairly when they meet with him if he becomes president — a nefarious source tells us that Trump has his own secret plan to replace the Cabinet with his Twitter followers to see if he should even go to those meetings."

This is the press release, by Fox News, BEFORE Trump withdrew from the debate.

It needs to be an integral part of the discussion regarding Trump's decision to withdraw. It is so unprofessional and absurd: it is utterly absurd to expect Trump to participate in a debate when the moderators are treating him (and only him) this way.

Could anyone imagine, say CBS issuing a statement about Hillary two days before a debate in which she is participating, and which they are moderating?

Fan of Trump or no fan of Trump; this statement is so beyond the pale it deserves to be publicized far and wide.

anonymousse

Blogger Salt January 27, 2016 8:10 AM  

Fox knows it's problematic between Trump and Kelly, and I believe her inclusion was absolutely calculated. Thrump is calling them on it, treating Fox as irrelevant.

Anonymous farmer Tom January 27, 2016 8:12 AM  

Bye, Bye Donald,

Don't let the door hit ya, where the God Lord split ya!!!!

Blogger Gaiseric January 27, 2016 8:13 AM  

OT: From Thara Tenney's facebook feed (the daughter of the slain rancher in Oregon): "I want the world to know how my father was murdered today. His hands were in the air and he was shot in the face by the American authorities. Ammon Bundy reported there are 6 witnesses to this evil."

http://www.infowars.com/eyewitness-oregon-militiaman-murdered-by-cops-he-had-his-hands-in-the-air/

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales January 27, 2016 8:14 AM  

@3

Speaking of irrelevant, looks like occupation near Burns has turned out to be completely irrelevant too:

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/01/26/shots-fired-in-oregon-standoff-one-dead-ammon-bundy-arrested/

God damn it! Could you at least have taken out some of the feds before you ran away?

Anonymous Watchu talkin bout Willis January 27, 2016 8:15 AM  

Here's hoping Trump breaks the GOP into a thousand pieces, and the Democrats into a million pieces.

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales January 27, 2016 8:16 AM  

@4

While it'd be really good if he was a martyr... some of the details don't add up. Particularly, how someone could use a cellphone in the back of a police car after you just got arrested for something so high profile.

Blogger Nate January 27, 2016 8:16 AM  

"Fox knows it's problematic between Trump and Kelly, and I believe her inclusion was absolutely calculated. "

so Trump's scared of a girl?

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales January 27, 2016 8:17 AM  

@6

Here's to hoping we all live to a ripe old age to survive that necessary, but likely deadly, occurrence.

Blogger Elocutioner January 27, 2016 8:18 AM  

"unprecedented" says WaPo, but NYT says Reagan did the same thing in 1980 - declined to debate Bush right before Iowa. So glad the media does its research before making assertions.

And with that snarky press release by Fox they were daring him to drop out. Only a cuck would go along after that.

The obligatory Scott Adams analysis -
http://blog.dilbert.com/post/138125409321/trump-fox-news-and-megyn-kelly-explained-master

Anonymous farmer Tom January 27, 2016 8:18 AM  

The Donald

Blogger Gaiseric January 27, 2016 8:19 AM  

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/01/26/anti-trump-network-fox-news-money-flows-open-borders-group/

Blogger Nate January 27, 2016 8:20 AM  

"moderators are treating him (and only him) this way. "

Are you really this delusional? You think they are mean to Trump? You know several times when Fox puts up info graphics showing how each candidate did in a given poll... they will replace Rand's name with another candidate... so that candidate is listed twice and Rand isn't there at all?

They kicked Rand off the last debate even though his numbers qualified him to be there.


Anonymous farmer Tom January 27, 2016 8:20 AM  

Same story.

Tell 'em Donald

Anonymous No January 27, 2016 8:34 AM  

Ha ha, kicking the temple whores in the ratings nuts right before media Ramadan. That, my friends, is Boss.

Blogger Nate January 27, 2016 8:34 AM  

Tom.... they don't care. see he was just promoting himself and his newsmax debate. because reasons.

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 January 27, 2016 8:35 AM  

Well, quite a few people were saying Rand Paul won the undercard debate by refusing to show up.

Blogger Elocutioner January 27, 2016 8:38 AM  

And then there's this.
http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2016/01/26/2868743/

"Fox News and Google have invited three YouTube personalities to ask questions at the Jan. 28 GOP debate — including a Muslim advocate who describes Donald Trump as a bigot and who visually portrayed him as being in agreement with national socialist Adolf Hitler."

Three ppl I've never heard of. One is a moslem anchor baby and another is a Central American immigrant. Because we need diverse perspectives on our invading hordes.

Trump's instead doing a rally for wounded vets.

Blogger YIH January 27, 2016 8:41 AM  

@5. Emmanuel Mateo-Morales:
https://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2016/01/26/breaking-malheur-open-thread/.
I suspect Trump won't fold. To me, it looks like he'll dominate the Faux debate whether he's there or not.
He's been saying all alone ''You need me more than I need you, bitches'' and from hearing the ratings he gets, he's right.
I'm waiting to hear about the ad cancellations/refunds.
Despite the fact she's annoying as hell, he should bring along Palin to his rally because she'll also draw attention and to let her treat the media like a pinata.
It'll be interesting to see the post-debate/rally polls - I'm guessing for Trump it'll slightly move his numbers but not enough to be significant either way.

Anonymous No January 27, 2016 8:44 AM  

Newsmax is not Fox, fellas. Did you also hear that oranges are hardly ever as red as apples, unless the apples are green?

Because strategy.

Blogger Nate January 27, 2016 8:44 AM  

"I suspect Trump won't fold."

He this fellow also suspect Trump wouldn't fold when he pulled this is exact stunt on CNN? Because he folded then.

What is it they say is the best predictor of future behavior? Past behavior?

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother January 27, 2016 8:45 AM  

Rand Paul did it successfully first.

Emmanuel, none of the people in Bundy's truck ran away.

Blogger Nate January 27, 2016 8:46 AM  

"Newsmax is not Fox, fellas."

what?

Blogger YIH January 27, 2016 8:52 AM  

@11. farmer Tom:
We all know the Blaze is Glenn Cuck central, but check out the comments - MPAI indeed.
Though I suspect it's been moderated to make Trump look bad.

Blogger Cataline Sergius January 27, 2016 8:52 AM  

Trump has nothing to lose by not showing up for the debate. He is the front runner at the moment. If he stumbled at the debate, he would not have time to recover, so he probably welcomed an excuse to not show up without looking like he was afraid of Ted Cruz. He gets to gather some valuable intel and not endanger his lead in Iowa. He might get to establish a more dominate relationship with the newsbots.

True everyone else gets to take free shots at him all night but he can respond in real time using Twitter, which is his preferred medium and one that he uses effectively.

Like I said, low risk maneuver.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 January 27, 2016 8:54 AM  

This is a brilliant move really. It gets him free press from Fox News and other networks and spreads his message even further.

Blogger YIH January 27, 2016 8:58 AM  

@22. No:
Newsmax ain't Fox.
That's true, like WND they pass along news from known sources. Newsmax has long had a reputation of being less accurate than The Onion.

Blogger Nate January 27, 2016 9:02 AM  

"Though I suspect it's been moderated to make Trump look bad."

doubtful. I think trumpsters around here get used to the trump people here and think that's what the average trump person sounds like. it isn't. look at twitter. look at the trump fan sites like. youtube commenters sound brighter.

Blogger Zaklog the Great January 27, 2016 9:07 AM  

What do you say to someone who says they like what Donald Trump is saying, but considering his past, they do not especially trust him to carry through on any of it if he is eventually elected?

Blogger Zaklog the Great January 27, 2016 9:07 AM  

What do you say to someone who says they like what Donald Trump is saying, but considering his past, they do not especially trust him to carry through on any of it if he is eventually elected?

Anonymous Yes January 27, 2016 9:10 AM  

"He this fellow also suspect Trump wouldn't fold when he pulled this is exact stunt on CNN?"

what?

Blogger Student in Blue January 27, 2016 9:10 AM  

look at twitter. look at the trump fan sites like. youtube commenters sound brighter.

Nate... are you sure you're not confusing people who just talk about Trump as a meme?

I know you're old and this new-fashioned Internet thing confounds you...

Blogger TheLiberatorOfBados January 27, 2016 9:17 AM  

This is great. None of the debates have been "debates" and hardly have they gone into current events or foreign policy as it matters to most Americans. Trump is in a position of leverage at this point. He's doing very well, and he doesn't need to go to a debate where there is no actual debating, only time-wasting trashtalk about him, where nothing is discussed. As Mike Cernovich said, Fox gets the ratings, Trump doesn't really gain anything. Why bother?

Now he's doing his own thing, and is funding all the ad revenue to wounded vets. So now he takes away Fox's ratings (because people were only watching for Trump), he helps to expose and reinforce that they are biased asshats who aren't interested in informing the viewers, and he gets to blow away the idea that Trump is a horrible rich person who only cares about himself since he's giving to wounded vets. Fox loses, Trump wins, big....

Ultimately, Trump is helping to drive the stake through the heart of the MSM, and I don't think that's something ANYBODY is gonna be sad about.

Blogger Nate January 27, 2016 9:18 AM  

here... I'll fix it for you...

"He this fellow also suspect Trump wouldn't fold when he pulled this is exact stunt on CNN?"


should read

"Did this fellow also suspect Trump wouldn't fold when he pulled this exact stunt on CNN?"

See I'm attacking the credibility of the columnist. You know Trump did this to CNN already right? You know he made these same threats and same demands... and then caved like a bitch when they simply said "No."?

Blogger YIH January 27, 2016 9:19 AM  

Via Karl Denninger:
Trump Erects The Middle Finger.
Also Le Chateau has a take on the previous post: Why Assimilationism Is A Failed Ideology:
Cuckservatives adore the idea of assimilation like they do heterosexual sex; from a distance, as an abstract concept.

Anonymous Jerome Horowitz January 27, 2016 9:19 AM  

The US is the Titanic, after it has hit the iceberg.

Nate, Farmer Tom, it doesn't matter who the “Captain” is at this point.

Blogger Nate January 27, 2016 9:19 AM  

"I know you're old and this new-fashioned Internet thing confounds you..."

***chuckle***

sugar-britches... I've been using the internet longer than you've been alive.

Blogger Cinco January 27, 2016 9:20 AM  

"We learned from a secret back channel that the Ayatollah and Putin both intend to treat Donald Trump unfairly when they meet with him if he becomes president — a nefarious source tells us that Trump has his own secret plan to replace the Cabinet with his Twitter followers to see if he should even go to those meetings."

I am sorry, this is one of the most sensationalist, unsourced bits of nonsense to ever be reported. FOX has indeed lost touch, and if an organization reported that about me, I wouldn't show up to their brouhaha either. And wtf is a nefarious source and why is its information even worth reporting if it is indeed nefarious? Hmmm... What kind of secret back channel would have access to both intelligence on Iran and Russia? Clearly the neocon horde is beginning to panic.

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales January 27, 2016 9:21 AM  

@24

Yeah, and there were too few of them and they got caught with their pants down, and they didn't actually manage to take even one of those bastards down and they lost one of their own people instead.

Blogger Student in Blue January 27, 2016 9:23 AM  

sugar-britches... I've been using the internet longer than you've been alive.

Yet you're convinced that everyone on Twitter is using stumping for Trump unironically? You might just be going senile, old-timer.

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr January 27, 2016 9:23 AM  

I think it's a tactical error made deliberately to set up a better strategic position.

Iowa and New Hampshire expect a full-bore bootlicking from the candidates, and get twitchy when they don't get it. This may hurt Trump in Iowa, probably will.

On the other hand, it sets a precedent for Trump refusing debates on the media's terms. Previous general election "debates" have featured one Republican candidate debating not only the Democrat, but the Dem's Propaganda Press auxiliaries as well. Trump just laid the predicate for taking a VERY hard line in the general election.

BTW, a smart GOP candidate at the debate will NOT discuss Trump at all. He'll stay on the attack and hit the Left.

Blogger Student in Blue January 27, 2016 9:24 AM  

"using" should instead be "just"

Blogger Nate January 27, 2016 9:24 AM  

"What do you say to someone who says they like what Donald Trump is saying, but considering his past, they do not especially trust him to carry through on any of it if he is eventually elected?"

I say that's how many sane people look at Trump.


Anonymous Mr. Rational January 27, 2016 9:27 AM  

@35 You mis-spelled LMM, Lying Marxist Media.

Anonymous Big Bill January 27, 2016 9:29 AM  

What Trump did was reframe the entire MSM.

MEDIA: If you promise to clean up and act nice, Donald, we will invite you to our famous debate/party.

DONALD: YOU will "invite" ME? Beotch, I am the entertainment everyone is coming to see! And I have decided to throw my own party/debate instead. And no, you don't get an "invitation".

Absolutely brilliant! The guy is a force of nature. The MSM is living in the distant past. They cannot even anticipate his moves.

Blogger Zaklog the Great January 27, 2016 9:31 AM  

@45 Thank you, Nate. I'm still hoping for a response from someone actively supporting Trump.

Blogger Were-Puppy January 27, 2016 9:33 AM  

I've been following this lately.

From what I see so far, this is what happens:

National Review was a co-sponsor of this thing. I believe RNC had them yanked from the debate after their mega-hit job on Trump. Imagine if they were still there.

Megyn Kelly we all know about. Trump was asking her to be removed. If they removed Natty Review, I think it's a good idea. But this also seems something Rinse Pubis should have dealt with behind the scenes.

Fox News and Google have also dug up an illegal and a muslim activist to ask questions at this debate. I'm sure we know who the target was for those.

Fox News then sends out a tweet taken as insulting by Trump, which he uses to do the mic drop and not show up.

Another aspect of this was a couple months back, Trump got into a little snit with a Saudi prince. The exchange was incredibly entertaining, where Trump embarrassed the prince and I don't believe he has been heard of since. But I find out this prince owns maybe the 2nd largest share in Fox News or it's parent company, still not clear on this.

I do have links for all this craziness, just on a diff computer :P

All Trump needs now is John Rockers endorsement, and it's a done deal.

Blogger Were-Puppy January 27, 2016 9:35 AM  

And my best joke about the debate:

Doc Carson is going to wake up midway, look around, and say "Where's Trump?"

Blogger Nate January 27, 2016 9:35 AM  

"Yet you're convinced that everyone on Twitter is using stumping for Trump unironically? You might just be going senile, old-timer."

See you really shouldn't jump to stupid conclusions and then apply them to others. Its dumb.

No. The fact is if you look at twitter its abundantly clear who's using Trump ironicly and who isn't. There are guys that support Trump purely because they want to wreck the GOP. They don't care if Trump is being honest or not. Its irrelevant. A good president is not their goal. They are out to destroy a bad political party. Again.. its easy to tell the difference.

Others... and most often these are baby-boomers... are not that way at all. They actually believe Trump. Like that idiot SigBouncer who comments here. There is a huge difference between him (who is more like the latter) and automatthew (who is more like the former).

again.. go read a few posts and the comments at Atlas After Dark. The stupid on display is an amazing spectacle. Easily on par with the FeelTheBurn idiots.

Blogger dienw January 27, 2016 9:35 AM  

Add to this move by Trump the murder of the rancher and excessive shooting as though the protesters were Bonnie and Clyde. Iowa is a farm state; they are directly in the path of the BLM; and this will hit home. When the Iowans watch the debates, all they will see are the insiders' candidates: Trump wins by not being one of the now murderous establishment.

Blogger Nate January 27, 2016 9:37 AM  

"Absolutely brilliant! The guy is a force of nature. The MSM is living in the distant past. They cannot even anticipate his moves."

See this Student in Blue?

This is great example of the Trump Stupid in action. He claims the media cannot anticipate his moves... when he already pulled this exact same stunt on CNN.

oh... but perhaps this fellow is being ironic...

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales January 27, 2016 9:38 AM  

@53

Didn't you hear Vox. No one's going to wake up after the Oregon ranch thing.

Blogger FP January 27, 2016 9:42 AM  

That Fox News release @3 Wow... just wow.

Fox just flinched and lost.

Blogger Salt January 27, 2016 9:43 AM  

Trump has said he's holding an event to raise money for wounded soldiers. That's not an issue one backs away from by caving to Fox.

Trump will not be at the debate.

Blogger Sam Lively January 27, 2016 9:44 AM  

@53

He joined up with a bunch of the other candidates to push CNN into dropping an hour from the debate, right? And they got what he asked for. That's your definition of folding?

Blogger YIH January 27, 2016 9:45 AM  

"We learned from a secret back channel that the UK and (((Netanyahu))) both intend to treat Donald Trump unfairly when they meet with him if he becomes president — a nefarious source tells us that Trump has his own secret plan to replace the Cabinet with his Twitter followers to see if he should even go to those meetings."
FIFY!

Blogger Nate January 27, 2016 9:46 AM  

"Trump has said he's holding an event to raise money for wounded soldiers. That's not an issue one backs away from by caving to Fox."

He said exactly the same thing to CNN.

hey maybe you're right. Maybe he won't cave... this time.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother January 27, 2016 9:47 AM  

Rand Paul did it successfully first.

Emmanuel, none of the people in Bundy's truck ran away.

Blogger Booch Paradise January 27, 2016 9:49 AM  

@53
So? The media is stupid and unable to believe that they don't have all the power, prestige and love that they have in their own minds. They are clearly losing in this. It would have been better for them to have not used Megan Kelly as a moderator and gotten him to attend.

It would require porky logic to say that this doesn't mean they didn't anticipate him.

Blogger Were-Puppy January 27, 2016 9:58 AM  

@2 Nate

I really don't care either way... all he would do at the debate is pander to iowa farmers about how much he loves ethynol mandates.
---

I really hate when he does that.

Anonymous Full-Fledged Fiasco January 27, 2016 9:59 AM  

Half the comments are from this "Nate" dreg. Seems very butthurt. What happened?

Blogger Salt January 27, 2016 9:59 AM  

So now we have Fox and Trump, standing toe to toe over the issue of Kelly as moderator. One of them has to Blink for Trump to attend. As Trump is only the biggest draw for the debate, why would Fox blink? Does Trump need this debate? Or does standing toe to toe with Fox get Trump even more press?

Anonymous Watchu talkin bout Willis January 27, 2016 10:02 AM  

I suspect a rival network will be giving The Donald plenty of live coverage simultaneous to the GOPe debate. Because ratings.

Blogger Nate January 27, 2016 10:03 AM  

"As Trump is only the biggest draw for the debate, why would Fox blink?"

I have no idea why fox would blink. I wouldn't blink. CNN certainly didn't... and Trump caved. Why would Fox expect him to do anything but cave?

And how can anyone not look at this as Trump looking like a pussy for being scared of a girl?

Blogger Gaiseric January 27, 2016 10:03 AM  

@48: It's a reasonable position to take. However... why single out Trump for that? The same is true for most of the rest of the pack. The only candidates for whom that's not true are the ones who don't even bother to say they right things; they may have integrity, but they're pointing in the completely wrong direction.

Blogger Were-Puppy January 27, 2016 10:04 AM  

@10 Nate
so Trump's scared of a girl?
--

Cmon Man, that's weak rhetoric! It's missing that grain of truth.

Observation: Was on breitbart yesterday morning and in the comments, all the anti-Trump trolls were going with a meme -
"I'm scared of Trump he's going to shoot someone on 5th Avenue."

Then it became "Trumps a Bully!"

So when they switched to "Trump's afraid of a girl" it completely out of synch with their earlier, same day pronouncements :P

Blogger Gaiseric January 27, 2016 10:05 AM  

@66: And how can anyone not look at this as Trump looking like a pussy for being scared of a girl?

From the OP: "The media narrative is already stupid; the idea that this is a cowardly move is almost blitheringly out-of-touch; taking on the media directly in this way is far more bold and confrontational than simply showing up on stage again and subjecting oneself to the ridiculous posturing of the moderators."

Blogger Salt January 27, 2016 10:05 AM  

We'll see, Nate, because the debate is tomorrow night.

Anonymous Kennymac January 27, 2016 10:07 AM  

Cool, another Tump thread for Nate to spaz out on. Bring on the popcorn!!

Blogger Salt January 27, 2016 10:08 AM  

Where's Josh?

Blogger Cinco January 27, 2016 10:09 AM  

The only way Trump loses on this decision is to agree to attend the debate without any concessions from FOX. He really is asserting his dominance and conditioning FOX to behave itself.

This guy is super-villain brilliant, a perfect counter to Putin. And don't act as if our media doesn't need some good conditioning!

Blogger Were-Puppy January 27, 2016 10:09 AM  

@13 farmer Tom
The Donald

---
TheBlaze? Really? That's like getting the Scalzi take of Vox Day.

The Ted Cruz/Beck collaboration has been very entertaining, I'll give them that! The talk show host melt down has been epic and part of what makes this the most interesting presidential race in my lifetime :P


Blogger Sam Lively January 27, 2016 10:09 AM  

@66

You keep on calling it a cave. He used the threat to pull out to get CNN to reduce the debate time to 2 hours, which is the only reason he threatened to skip, IIRC.

Blogger Torial January 27, 2016 10:09 AM  

@16 - here's the direct link to the tweet: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/154639112681422849

Blogger Booch Paradise January 27, 2016 10:10 AM  

@63
Back in July/August Nate and Josh were saying that Trump was a GOP operative who's purpose in the campaign was to get Jeb elected. Turns out they were wrong and the types of commenters here they find the most annoying were on the money as far as we can tell so far. Thus the spazing and general trolling.

Blogger Salt January 27, 2016 10:15 AM  

Cool, another Tump thread for Nate to spaz out on. Bring on the popcorn!!

ConAgra's (CAG) stock is up. Guess popcorn sales are brisk. ConAgra owns Orville Redenbacher.

Blogger bob k. mando January 27, 2016 10:18 AM  

23. Nate January 27, 2016 8:44 AM
What is it they say is the best predictor of future behavior? Past behavior?



you may be thinking of "Past performance is no guarantee of future results."

considering that inconsistent rewards is a well understood GameBoy concept, it's odd that *you* would think that Trump isn't going to Game the electorate ... just like he's been doing all along.


also, he's already announced a wounded vet fundraiser. Trump can't back out of that, or it's a 'betrayal' of the vets. i suppose he could avoid that by donating some millions of dollars to a wounded vet .org, but giving money away doesn't seem a very Trump thing to do.

not to me, anyways.



23. Nate January 27, 2016 8:44 AM
He this fellow also suspect Trump wouldn't fold when he pulled this is exact stunt on CNN? Because he folded then.



smacking CNN in the face doesn't offer the same benefits that smacking Fox in the face does.

libs froth at the mouth about Fox being right wing fascists who want to put queers and mexicans into gas chambers. i'm not saying that's true, just that this is the popLib conceptualization.

if you understand this as Trump playing to the national electorate and already looking past the primaries ... what more could he do to drive up his stock with Dem and minority voters? and this is with a guy who looks like he's already pulling 20% Dem support.


as for the accusations of 'Trump cowardice' i already explained how to pull the fangs on that;
announce that ANY vet ( and only vets, no occupy wallstreet, BLM or media clowns ) will be permitted to ask Trump any question they want at the rally.


regardless, we're all just conjecturing right now.

Trump likes to present himself as the consummate manager, organizer and deal maker.

this 'wounded vet' thing is going to be a test of that assertion. he is going to be going from zero to full on political fundraiser / rally in, nominally ( you don't know what kind of a team he already had in place planning this ), less than a week.

it will be interesting to see how yuge of a donation night he has.

Blogger Nate January 27, 2016 10:19 AM  

"Cmon Man, that's weak rhetoric! It's missing that grain of truth."

You've got the timeline muddled up mate.

Post debate it was "Kelly kicked his ass". Which to this day, when I go back and watch it, and yes i have it on the dvr, is the same as it was immediately after. Trump stood there looking like an idiot and had no answer. She simply destroyed him.

It wasn't until the spin the next day when he was able to regroup. He went on the attack and only then it change to "Trump's a bully".

The fact is Trump wants to avoid what happened last time. Which is getting his ass kicked.

Blogger Were-Puppy January 27, 2016 10:19 AM  

@32 Zaklog the Great
What do you say to someone who says they like what Donald Trump is saying, but considering his past, they do not especially trust him to carry through on any of it if he is eventually elected?
---

They should have begun seeing how the politicians for the last many decades are completely untrustable.

Trump is an unknown. He might be the same way. But then again, he might not.

So go with a known bad element, or go with the unknown, with a chance he actually comes through on what he is saying.

Blogger Nick S January 27, 2016 10:23 AM  

This is clearly a strategic move to garner low information Democrat's support for Trump. They literally hate Fox an he knows it. There is no cost to Trump. He won't lose his base, he will gain some Democrats and he will dominate the news cycle. It's a win/win for Trump. Personally, I don't think Trump's shenanigans are compelling, but some people do. God, help us. Trump has every attribute you would expect in a cult leader.

Blogger Nate January 27, 2016 10:29 AM  

"Turns out they were wrong and the types of commenters here they find the most annoying were on the money as far as we can tell so far"

That's exactly correct. Lots of us were wrong about Trump's intentions. Where you're wrong... is the projection at the end.

You think I'm upset about being wrong. I'm not at all. He quite obviously is in the race to win it at this point. Being wrong about what I thought he would be doing 6 months ago never crosses my mind.

See guys like automatthew don't bother me. Trump is a tool to them. A zanatos gambit.

I have no problem with them or their support of Trump.


Its the idiots like SigBouncer (and people like him are the majority of the trump supporters) that I find so stupid... and that I enjoy kicking.

Anonymous rienzi January 27, 2016 10:32 AM  

While The Donald is raising money for wounded veterans, the rest of the field will be on their stage giving us the usual blah, blah, blah political blather, and pandering to the muslim and illegal that Fox snuck into the lineup.

Massive contrast. If Cruz has more brains than a chimp, he'll dump the debate, and just show up unannounced at Trump's event, shaking hands and kissing babies.

Solidifies the perception that its a two man race, and leaves Fox with a non-event.

Blogger Student in Blue January 27, 2016 10:34 AM  

@Nate
See you really shouldn't jump to stupid conclusions and then apply them to others. Its dumb.

You didn't contest it in the last post, so I took it as being, obviously, uncontested.

This is great example of the Trump Stupid in action. He claims the media cannot anticipate his moves... when he already pulled this exact same stunt on CNN.

So... they did anticipate this? How in the hell are they going to profit from this? Either the media didn't anticipate this move or they're blisteringly stupid, either which is a fair reading of the situation.

Re: CNN, how about the question Sam Lively posed?
"He joined up with a bunch of the other candidates to push CNN into dropping an hour from the debate, right? And they got what he asked for. That's your definition of folding?"

Blogger Ingot9455 January 27, 2016 10:35 AM  

By putting Megyn Kelly in the debate and inviting a Muslim advocate to ask questions, it's clear that this was going to be a verbal assassination attempt on Trump.

Why show up for your own assassination?

A classic move - let them marshal all their forces and then don't show up to the battle. Sure, you concede that ground, but if you have the power to attack somewhere else and make that important...

Blogger Josh January 27, 2016 10:37 AM  

For those commenting in this thread, how many of the GOP debates have you watched this election cycle?

Blogger Nate January 27, 2016 10:39 AM  

""He joined up with a bunch of the other candidates to push CNN into dropping an hour from the debate, right? And they got what he asked for. That's your definition of folding?"

Actually thanks.. I didn't see that question.

I would respond to it by simply point out that Sam is wrong. That isn't what happened and it isn't the situation I'm talking about. Trump speficially demanded CNN share some of the profits from their debate with Wounded Warriors.

CNN said no.

Trump said, "If you don't I won't be at the debate."

CNN said, "Give no fucks. Don't come. We don't care."

Trump came to the debate.

Blogger praetorian January 27, 2016 10:41 AM  

> He once again defied the conventional rules of politics, and used his power and prominence to shape the campaign agenda and conversation.

> but his threatened boycott leaves him open to criticism that for all his tough talk he is ducking face-to-face confrontations

Media logic.

Blogger praetorian January 27, 2016 10:42 AM  

For those commenting in this thread, how many of the GOP debates have you watched this election cycle?

Potato.

Trump TRAIN wooo woooooooooo.

Blogger Torial January 27, 2016 10:43 AM  

@86 - Why show up for your assassination?

That's what other candidates thought when Trump was going to host the NewsMax debate in 2012. He wasn't refusing to run as an Indy, so they didn't want to give him a platform to attack them. Really minimal difference... Trump wasn't happy about that (see farmer Tom's link @16).

Blogger Were-Puppy January 27, 2016 10:43 AM  

@43 Napoleon 12pdr

I think it's a tactical error made deliberately to set up a better strategic position.

---

I've been thinking this is the over all plan. He's probably thinking he's got this Republican part in the bag. So now he's positioning to deal with Hitlery in the general. And one way you do that is to gimp her reserves and mouthpieces - Bill and the media.

Blogger SciVo January 27, 2016 10:44 AM  

The media narrative is already stupid; the idea that this is a cowardly move is almost blitheringly out-of-touch; taking on the media directly in this way is far more bold and confrontational than simply showing up on stage again and subjecting oneself to the ridiculous posturing of the moderators.

It's amazing to me how many people are claiming with every appearance of sincerity that it is a sign of weakness to stand up for yourself, and a sign of strength to let someone abuse you while taking advantage of you for their personal gain. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, but I am.

However! Never say never. Trump was in a WWE storyline vs. Vince McMahon. He knows kayfabe, so he could still show if someone provides a narrative hook for that to be in his favor.

OpenID mattse001 January 27, 2016 10:47 AM  

"Who but Donald Trump can win a debate by refusing to show up for it?"

It's a little early to say he won the debate before it's even happened. Whether he won it will be determined by what the other candidates manage to do with the vacuum.

Blogger Humpty Dumpty #4464 January 27, 2016 10:54 AM  

For those commenting in this thread, how many of the GOP debates have you watched this election cycle?

All of them and Trump isn't nearly the buffoon that people are making him out to be. Also, Cruz and Paul have good ideas, but both come across as very unlikeable. Rubio's ears are too damn big.

Blogger praetorian January 27, 2016 10:56 AM  

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/flashback-ronald-reagan-skipped-last-debate-before-ia-caucus-went-on-to-win-in-landslide/

kek

Rubio looks and sounds like a slightly swarthier Matt Damon. For that reason alone, oven.

Blogger Booch Paradise January 27, 2016 11:00 AM  

@83 Ok, but I can't help but notice that you normally brush off the dregs but in this case you're actively baiting them with statements like "so Trump's scared of a girl?"

Anonymous Alexander January 27, 2016 11:01 AM  

Trump once again unveils the face behind the mask.

Republicans, since forever, morning after debate: Wharbargurbl! Why do our candidates never stand up and reject the fact that they are walking into a firing squad at debates. Just *once* I'd like to see Republicans demand some sort of equal treatment.

Today: Coward! Who are you to demand anything from the media?! #FOXLiesMatter

Blogger SciVo January 27, 2016 11:02 AM  

Cinco @40: I am sorry, this is one of the most sensationalist, unsourced bits of nonsense to ever be reported.

It wasn't serious. It was pathetic, gamma-level snark. Even a delta would disrespect them for that.

Blogger tz January 27, 2016 11:10 AM  

Note how the Cuckservatives (as opposed to the conservatives) are being exposed, and Trump's mere presence in the campaign is causing them to self-destruct.

NR - check. Nose so high up in the air as to cause hypoxia. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4v3dOzz8-jg&feature=player_detailpage#t=269

Faux News - check. Kelly isn't a bimbo. Infobimbos have enough sense just to look pretty and be nice.

TheBlaze (Dana Loesch, Glenn Beck) - total meltdown. However it is something like a chain reaction car accident you cannot help gawking at.

Blogger Young Heaving Bosoms of Liberty January 27, 2016 11:12 AM  

99. SciVo

Cinco knows. See if you can determine where his tongue is.

Anonymous Bobby Farr January 27, 2016 11:12 AM  

Trump is doing what the other so-called conservatives should have been doing. The spinelessness of the Repubs should be evident from their failure to even be able to get primary debates structured in a way that is favorable to the right. Fringe left 3rd world migrants dug from Youtube? Pathetic.

Anonymous farmer Tom January 27, 2016 11:12 AM  

All of you Trump supporters, I have a question for you.

Trump has been here in Iowa numerous times. I've personally seen him speak 3 times.(almost all of them I've seen in person 3 or more times).

So, it's down to crunch time. I vote next Monday evening in the caucuses. And I will vote. Still haven't decided 100 percent for who I'll vote, but I will vote.

So, why should I support a chicken shit cry baby who suddenly starts attacking the media when he loses his lead in the polls, one freaking week before we actually vote.

All the ass clowns like Santorum (less than 1 percent in the polls) Jebe Shrub (less than 5 percent) John Kasich (less than 1 percent) are all showing up. But the Big Bad Donald who suddenly appears to be crashing and burning at the last minute is now afraid to do the final debate before we vote?

Would you respect that kind of chicken shit behavior from any other political personage?

I don't. No way in hell The Donald gets my vote. No F-ing way.

Blogger Student in Blue January 27, 2016 11:13 AM  

@Nate

I'll let Sam handle the CNN part of it since it was his question.

What about the question of "what in the hell can Fox gain from this"?

This is great example of the Trump Stupid in action. He claims the media cannot anticipate his moves... when he already pulled this exact same stunt on CNN.

Okay, so let's say he completely folded on CNN. You disagreeing with this diagnosis is saying that Fox is instead correctly anticipating his moves.

So what's your position then? That Fox wants him to make a big deal out of not coming and then cave later coming to the debate, or that they want him out of it completely?

Blogger Student in Blue January 27, 2016 11:15 AM  

@farmer Tom
So, why should I support a chicken shit cry baby who suddenly starts attacking the media when he loses his lead in the polls, one freaking week before we actually vote.

...which poll was that? A ton of the polls I've seen have instead shown Trump's lead growing.

Anonymous Alexander January 27, 2016 11:18 AM  

@105 The bullshit poll.

But the Big Bad Donald who suddenly appears to be crashing and burning...

Not that he actually is, just that he's appears to be doing so in Farmer Tom's world.

I love it. 4 years ago it was dismay that the Republicans had once again played Charlie Brown football with iCandy Crowley, and when will they ever learn... and now it's how dare you not toe the media line when it comes to debates, because reasons.

Anonymous #8601 Jean Valjean January 27, 2016 11:20 AM  

Trump is an Alpha.
Nate is an Alpha.

America ain't big enough for both of them.

Blogger The Other Robot January 27, 2016 11:20 AM  

@105

Farmer Tom lives in a bizarro world. It is best not to question his reality.

Anonymous Bobby Farr January 27, 2016 11:21 AM  

Yeah, why can't Trump "man up" and attend a 7th unnecessary debate filled with hostile wackos? And why didn't man up and marry some local cow instead of a younger Slavic woman? A real man eats his shit sandwich with a smile and conforms to the expectations of the leftist establishment. Like Jeb. That guy's a stud.

Blogger Sam Lively January 27, 2016 11:22 AM  

@88

Is this what you are referring to? http://www.politico.com/blogs/on-media/2015/12/donald-trump-threatens-to-boycott-cnn-debate-again-216302

A hypothetical he threw out to a rally? And followed up with a risk/reward analysis?

Seems more like he's flirted with this idea twice before, first with a suggestion to Jeff Zucker in a letter, then a hypothetical and now he's trying it in earnest.

Blogger The Other Robot January 27, 2016 11:23 AM  

A great many Americans have little respect for the media.

I would not be surprised if Trumps move improves his poll numbers.

Of course, it could just be that people in Iowa love the medial.

Anonymous Fran January 27, 2016 11:24 AM  

I think this will make Trumps numbers go up again. People who want Trump want him exactly because he won't be guilted or otherwise badgered by a leftist prick or pricks about being somewhere he doe not need to be. To be harrassed with loaded questions like so have you stopped beating your children...I'm glad(speaking for myself) he gave them the middle finger.

Blogger Young Heaving Bosoms of Liberty January 27, 2016 11:25 AM  

@103. farmer Tom

So, why should I support a chicken shit cry baby who suddenly starts attacking the media when he loses his lead in the polls, one freaking week before we actually vote.

You absolutely should not. But you might also question whether your perceptions are accurate, or whether some prejudice might be coloring them.

Blogger Timmy3 January 27, 2016 11:26 AM  

This is a good move for Trump. The RNC failed to protect the candidates at the CNBC debates. Trump is protecting himself. On the other hand, I wonder what FOX will do the remaining candidates. Will FOX try to openly tout Bush and Rubio or will Cruz have chance to shine without Trump there. I can't help thinking Cruz can handily crush Bush. He has reason from the Politico article. Rubio is a more challenging and skilled debater. Cruz will find it harder to defeat him.

Blogger RobertT January 27, 2016 11:28 AM  

Strong medicine. //msm in full panic mode, electorate cheering.

Blogger SciVo January 27, 2016 11:29 AM  

Megyn Kelly: "When Trump started it up again this past Saturday and resumed it again and again and again, he was told repeatedly our debate team is settled and then came that Instagram video he put out today. Trump is not used to not controlling things as the chief executive of a large organization. But the truth is, he doesn’t get to control the media.”

Shorter Megyn Kelly: "Trump's not the boss of me!"

Hypothetical Donald Trump: "Okay. Then I'm your competition."

Blogger Rek. January 27, 2016 11:31 AM  

@103

You go girl!! Show the Donald how much you are not going to vote for him!!
You are so sticking it to him!!

I imagine a reatrd like you will vote for Jeb. Go boomers!

Blogger RobertT January 27, 2016 11:33 AM  

I can't imagine the other candidates won't be stupid enough to attend the debate. Unless they're complete idiots. Whoever does will come off like a total loser. This is better than an iq test to measure brainpower.

OpenID Jack Amok January 27, 2016 11:34 AM  

What do you say to someone who says they like what Donald Trump is saying, but considering his past, they do not especially trust him to carry through on any of it if he is eventually elected?

A bullshit question. You don't trust any of them to carry through with what they're saying.

So, why should I support a chicken shit cry baby who suddenly starts attacking the media when he loses his lead in the polls, one freaking week before we actually vote.

Let me ask a different question - and not a rhetorical one. Why support any of the other candidates? What do you expect any of them to accomplish?

Blogger Salt January 27, 2016 11:37 AM  

I read that Trump was ticked that Fox and other news outlets were charging a premium for advertising because Trump was drawing such a large audience.

Blogger ScottD January 27, 2016 11:42 AM  

So Fox is going to make the other candidates pander to You Tube muslim and Central American Immigrants "stars".

Trump won't have to be there, and the other candidates will have to grovel, showing them to be weak. Trump can frame his own responses on the offensive. He can puncture the media bubble blocking out the #Rapefugees from public consciousness and tie Obama's failure to police the boarder to the news about the Zika virus. My wife (a liberal doctor) was terrified after reading of the Zika virus. I said, "well, we shouldn't be letting tens of thousands of Central Americans pour over the border." That may have cracked through her wall of denial.

Anonymous Alexander January 27, 2016 11:43 AM  

Let us assume for a moment that every single Republican candidate, if elected, will proceed to play the usual cuck gameplan. Including Trump.

What would you rather have, a cuckservative who went the whole campaign with mealy mouthed "We'll try really hard to push back them Dems!" that gets the country settled into media shrilling and Republicans trying super hard but just can't get it done: we're a system that has protections to prevent tyranny over the minority, dontchaknow...

... Or a guy who wins explicitly and unambiguously thanks to the anger of Americans with the status-quo, and then tries to betray that?

Worse case scenario of complete betrayal, the nation is still better off in case number 2. At which point, compared to all other candidates, anything Trump actually follows through that's he has promised is just icing on the cake.

Blogger Nate January 27, 2016 11:45 AM  

"Okay, so let's say he completely folded on CNN. You disagreeing with this diagnosis is saying that Fox is instead correctly anticipating his moves."

My position is Fox wants something to cover. This gave them something to cover. Also Fox didn't pick the fight with Trump. Trump picked it with Fox. I think the fact that Trump caved when CNN called his bluff gave Fox the gumption to call his bluff too.

Blogger Josh January 27, 2016 11:45 AM  

Add to this move by Trump the murder of the rancher and excessive shooting as though the protesters were Bonnie and Clyde. Iowa is a farm state; they are directly in the path of the BLM; and this will hit home. When the Iowans watch the debates, all they will see are the insiders' candidates: Trump wins by not being one of the now murderous establishment.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-trump-dont-hand-federal-lands-to-states/

Blogger Nate January 27, 2016 11:45 AM  

"I read that Trump was ticked that Fox and other news outlets were charging a premium for advertising because Trump was drawing such a large audience. "

correct That was the source of the original dust up with CNN.

Blogger Salt January 27, 2016 11:46 AM  

@123 Only IF he's bluffing.

Blogger SciVo January 27, 2016 11:47 AM  

Zaklog the Great @31: What do you say to someone who says they like what Donald Trump is saying, but considering his past, they do not especially trust him to carry through on any of it if he is eventually elected?

1. Trump is essentially promising to put the interests of transnationals and globalists aside, and govern purely in the interests of American citizens. Maybe he won't, but the others aren't even pretending they will.

2. Even if doesn't win, he's already changed the political landscape dramatically. He doesn't just shift the Overton window; he punches it in the face, then melts the shards down for a rhetorical shiv to stick in the metaphorical ribs of anyone that doesn't like it. Now imagine him winning and doing that on an international scale.

3. He is the first Jacksonian candidate to have a serious chance of winning since Ronald Reagan. (GWB had a Jacksonian flavor, but his policies were of the globalist Wilsonian neocons and globalist Hamiltonian free-traders.) And it's about damn time.

4. If nothing else, it will be entertaining as hell, starting with all the heads exploding. I'd stay away from the D.C. area on election night; it could get messy.

5. And anyway, as the saying goes, Trump isn't our candidate; he's our wrecking ball, and the corrupt bipartisan establishment is scheduled for demolition.

OpenID sigbouncer January 27, 2016 11:47 AM  

"Trump has said he's holding an event to raise money for wounded soldiers. That's not an issue one backs away from by caving to Fox."

"He said exactly the same thing to CNN."

This is inacurrate. Trump asked CNN to donate the debate proceeds (or 5 million) to Wounded Warriors. When they refused. Trump acknowledged the fact that CNN would say he was scared to debate on their stage.

The difference here is Trump has already debated on the Fox stages more than once. And Trump told Fox and Roger Ailes along with the Republican party early on not to screw around with him. They obviously did and this is Trump's Fuck You to them all.

Blogger Nate January 27, 2016 11:53 AM  

"This is inacurrate. Trump asked CNN to donate the debate proceeds (or 5 million) to Wounded Warriors. When they refused."

You're leaving out the bit where trump threatened to not go on their debate if they refused.

and then they refused... and he was at the debate.


Again... this awesome stupendous negotiator... can't seem to get deals done.

Blogger David-093 January 27, 2016 12:01 PM  

"Trump asked CNN to donate the debate proceeds (or 5 million) to Wounded Warriors. When they refused."

This is incorrect. Trump knew there was no chance CNN was going to donate millions in ad revenue to Wounded Warriors. It was an over the top demand that made CNN look bad because they're refusing to donate to veterans. He threatened not to show up if the debate wasn't reduced to two hours, which he successfully got done, and this point was made very clear during the debate.

@Josh

I've watched all of them.

Blogger Student in Blue January 27, 2016 12:04 PM  

@Nate
My position is Fox wants something to cover. This gave them something to cover. Also Fox didn't pick the fight with Trump. Trump picked it with Fox. I think the fact that Trump caved when CNN called his bluff gave Fox the gumption to call his bluff too.

It's a no-brainer to think that Fox wants controversy to report on. It's also a no-brainer to realize that the Youtubers Fox invited weren't going to be fair, impartial, or even fact-based in any way.

If Trump does not show up to the debate, does that mean that Fox did not anticipate his moves?

Arguably they want Trump to show up. He draws in the viewers and brings them the ad revenue like we already discussed.

And Re: CNN-folding
You missed @110. Sam Lively again.

OpenID sigbouncer January 27, 2016 12:04 PM  

This is inacurrate. Trump asked CNN to donate the debate proceeds (or 5 million) to Wounded Warriors. When they refused.

"You're leaving out the bit where trump threatened to not go on their debate if they refused.

and then they refused... and he was at the debate."

No I referenced that Trump's reasoning for doing the CNN debate is that they would say he was scared to take the debate on their stage.

Trump's already done more than one Fox debate. Therefore they have no leverage in saying Trump was scared to do their debate. So now Trump is going it alone in creating money for the Wounded Warriors.

Anonymous farmer Tom January 27, 2016 12:04 PM  

Once again you all missed the point.

I and my fellow Iowans caucus next Monday. Give me one good reason why I should vote for the chicken shit crybaby who doesn't have the balls to show up for the final debate in Iowa because Faux News?



Blogger Gaiseric January 27, 2016 12:05 PM  

Also Fox didn't pick the fight with Trump. Trump picked it with Fox. I think the fact that Trump caved when CNN called his bluff gave Fox the gumption to call his bluff too.

This is the kind of claim for which they invented the phrase "lolwut?" Fox News is YUGE into the globalist neocon paradigm, and they've had it out for Trump from the beginning, while softballing to candidates like Rubio. Trump (correctly) surmised that the cuckservative media was actually MORE hostile to him and his agenda than the liberal media (at least earlier on in the cycle; the liberal media is starting to take Trump more seriously now) and (correctly) determined that they were his enemies and that by playing by their rules, he was surrendering serious tactical advantage. He also (correctly) surmised the mood of the electorate; that they're tired of the media (including Fox News) and don't trust them, and that he could build his own platform successfully rather than needing to rely on their graciousness to share theirs.

Anonymous Hmm January 27, 2016 12:05 PM  

So Trump is skipping a debate with a media panel expressly set up to nail him. An anchor baby, a Muslim activist, and menstrual Megan...I'd skip it too.

Blogger Salt January 27, 2016 12:07 PM  

@133 It sends a message to the establishment cucks - we're done with you.

Blogger Young Heaving Bosoms of Liberty January 27, 2016 12:07 PM  

Avoiding an ambush does not mean one is a coward.

Blogger Gaiseric January 27, 2016 12:08 PM  

@133: Nobody missed any point. Give us one good reason why anyone should take your ridiculous characterization of the situation seriously enough to give you a straight response.

Blogger Student in Blue January 27, 2016 12:08 PM  

@133

So, uh... you were completely wrong about that poll then?

OpenID Jack Amok January 27, 2016 12:15 PM  

Let me ask a different question - and not a rhetorical one. Why support any of the other candidates? What do you expect any of them to accomplish?

I'll give my answer. I don't really expect any of the candidates to do much positive in office. Rand won't win. Everybody else besides Trump and Cruz are cucks who will make things worse. Cruz would probably try to do something, but he's too beholden to the establishment. Maybe Trump is too - and like I said, I don't expect any of them to fix things - but the difference with Trump is that he's the biggest middle finger the voters can give to the establishment GOP, to the media, and to DC itself.

Note that that's independent of who Trump really is or what he might really do in office. He's not the messenger - he's the message. He's the voters saying "fuck this shit, we're flipping the table over."

I think it's time to flip the table over. That's the only reason I'd be supporting a boorish Queens developer with a bad toupee.

Blogger Gaiseric January 27, 2016 12:19 PM  

@140: I like Cruz's position on most issues best. But I don't think he has the charisma and strategic know-how to win. Trump does.

Ideally, they'd be perfect partners; each covering for the weaknesses in the other. But to appearances right now, that ship has sailed.

Blogger Student in Blue January 27, 2016 12:19 PM  

@Jack Amok
Rand won't win.

Rand isn't Ron either way.

Blogger frigger611 January 27, 2016 12:19 PM  

I love this move by Trump. He knows the whole thing is rigged. Only option is Kobayashi maru. Who else has those kinds of grapes?

OpenID Jack Amok January 27, 2016 12:19 PM  

So, farmer Tom, I gave you my reason to vote for Trump. What reasons can you come up with to vote for someone else?

Blogger Student in Blue January 27, 2016 12:23 PM  

@Gaiseric
Ideally, they'd be perfect partners; each covering for the weaknesses in the other. But to appearances right now, that ship has sailed.

Agreed, it's very unlikely that Cruz would be willing. And add in various things such as being in favor of Trans-Pacific Trade and missing the Audit the Fed... I don't think Cruz would actually be tough on immigration.

Blogger Rek. January 27, 2016 12:25 PM  

@133

Listen farmer, if pissing and shitting on proud white americans is your way to stick it to Trump, just do it. Nobody needs no traitor's vote. I hear Sanders needs a push to win Iowa.

Anonymous SevenCrimes January 27, 2016 12:26 PM  

So, why should I support a chicken shit cry baby who suddenly starts attacking the media when he loses his lead in the polls, one freaking week before we actually vote.

This may come as a surprise to you, but we can all actually check the polls ourselves to find the truth, we don't rely on the Farmer Tom aggregator to spin what's going on for us.

If you hate the sole Nationalist in the race and plan to vote for one of the Globalists, that's your prerogative; you don't have to vomit your lies/delusions here in an attempt to justify it. Just sack up and do it without our approval.

Blogger Salt January 27, 2016 12:26 PM  

He's not the messenger - he's the message.

That just went up on twitter, Jack.

Blogger Gaiseric January 27, 2016 12:28 PM  

@145 Student in Blue

I would put it past them to have trumped up (no pun intended) this feud as a stunt, a la professional wrestling, only to turn around and come back as an establishment smashing tag team once the primaries start in earnest. But maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part.

Blogger The Other Robot January 27, 2016 12:29 PM  

I for one would love to watch the losers up on stage during the debate.

I guess I would watch for five minutes.

Trump is making it easy for us to identify the losers.

Anonymous No January 27, 2016 12:30 PM  

Give me one good reason why I should vote for the chicken shit crybaby who doesn't have the balls to show up for the final debate in Iowa because Faux News?

Because you aren't voting for internet tough guy this time around.

Blogger VD January 27, 2016 12:38 PM  

I and my fellow Iowans caucus next Monday. Give me one good reason why I should vote for the chicken shit crybaby who doesn't have the balls to show up for the final debate in Iowa because Faux News?

No one missed the point. You're obviously not smart enough to understand that Trump is hardly a chicken shit crybaby. Let's not forget, Farmer Tom, you were the one who told us all that Ben Carson was going to win, because you know the political scene in Iowa so well.

Considering you got it that wrong despite your familiarity with it, you might want to consider the possibility that you are reading Trump's actions incorrectly.

Blogger praetorian January 27, 2016 12:38 PM  

Guys, this is the circle of life.

Trump does X.

Nate, josh and farmer tom say "X is retarded and you all are too"

And then trumps numbers go up.

If shit stopped working this way I would find it disorienting.

OpenID Jack Amok January 27, 2016 12:41 PM  

farmer Tom, Nate, and Josh. I think there are two reasons for a grown man not to vote for Trump.

1 - he doesn't want to blow up the GOP.
2 - he doesn't want to blow up the GOP yet.

I'd be more than happy to live in a world where an emboldened, de-cuckified GOP would have a decent chance of fixing things, so if it's #1, then tell me what the plan is for making that happen. I'm on board if it sounds plausible.

If it's #2, tell me why we should wait. Again, if there's a good reason, I'm willing to be convinced.

But aside from those reasons, I can't really see anything else. You're all big enough boys to have held your nose and voted for someone you didn't personally care for when you thought he was the best guy for a job that needed doing. So it's not his personality, or the fact he's an obnoxious New Yorker.

Is it #1 or #2? Or is there a #3 I missed?

Blogger Sam Lively January 27, 2016 12:43 PM  

@149

Nah, both sides going for the throat.

I've believed for awhile that Cruz would be best as a SC appointee. I think he has solid instincts on the social issues (Baptist upbringing) to go with his rhetoric. The SC also has far less influence on foreign policy (war and trade), where I distrust Cruz. I think avoiding a huge expense of a general Presidential election would also keep him independent of the pro-immigration lobby.

That's the deal I wanted Trump to cut with him. But I think Cruz is one of the most insanely ambitious guys in the country - seems like every single major life and career decision he has made has been with an eye to the presidency.

Blogger Salt January 27, 2016 12:49 PM  

Trump is the perfect one to blow up the GOP, the party of Lincoln, being a NY yankee and pulling a Sherman, marching through the hallowed halls of the cuckservative establishment to burn it all down.

Anonymous No January 27, 2016 12:49 PM  

There is this entrenched narrative that "debates are stupid, but really really matter, and who won?" that amuses me to no end.

When Trump debated on CNN, he flip-flopped to victory. When Trump rejects Faux News, he flip-flopped to victory.

Have you not realized yet that this is an electorate that has elected Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama?

Do you not understand yet that Trump is running his campaign to win, not to do the stuff it takes to persuade the irrelevant voters who voted against Bush, Clinton, Bush and Obama? They didn't matter then. They don't matter now.

The people he wants are the people who are going to find his game with Fox to be inspirational. That's it. That's the strategy.

Blogger frigger611 January 27, 2016 12:51 PM  

I love this move by Trump. He knows the whole thing is rigged. Only option is Kobayashi maru. Who else has those kinds of grapes?

OpenID sigbouncer January 27, 2016 12:56 PM  

Remember Trump supporters. This only works and makes Trump right when we refuse to watch the debate.

Don't get curious. You've heard it all before from these lifetime Republican Politicians.

Blogger bob k. mando January 27, 2016 12:56 PM  

103. farmer Tom January 27, 2016 11:12 AM
So, why should I support a chicken shit cry baby who suddenly starts attacking the media when he loses his lead in the polls, one freaking week before we actually vote.



i'm not sure what you're talking about, i see two polls with Cruz barely ahead, everyone else shows Trump with a massive lead ... in Iowa. most of the polls show Trump with a 5-10 pt lead.

the normalized curve line for Iowa shows Cruz briefly above Trump ... back in December.

nationally, Trump is murderizing everybody.

national polls show Cruz turning down, just like the Iowa polls ... which isn't to say that he couldn't go back up again.

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-iowa-presidential-republican-caucus

regardless, the real poll comes when the votes are cast. we will see what we will see.


"who suddenly starts attacking the media"

see, this is the kind of statement that just makes you look stupid. suddenly? what is this "suddenly", kemosabe?

he's been smacking the media around the whole time.

it's one thing to abandon dialectic for rhetoric. it's another thing to just start blathering obvious falsehoods to try and plump your guy / smear the other guy.

smells like desperation spirit.

Anonymous Sam the Man January 27, 2016 12:57 PM  

Nate:

if you feel Trump is so bad, who is the better candidate for office?

I ask as it seems you have plenty to say on the topic, but what candidate offers a better chance of really changing things?

Blogger Rek. January 27, 2016 12:57 PM  

@ 158

I think we missed your exact same comment from 32 minutes ago. Your Kobayashi maru thingy is worthy of Trump's campaign manager.

Blogger Student in Blue January 27, 2016 12:59 PM  

@157
Do you not understand yet that Trump is running his campaign to win, not to do the stuff it takes to persuade the irrelevant voters who voted against Bush, Clinton, Bush and Obama? They didn't matter then. They don't matter now.

The people he wants are the people who are going to find his game with Fox to be inspirational. That's it. That's the strategy.


Disagree. His base is the disenfranchised, which has grown over said presidencies you mentioned, *and* a lot of people who get swept up in the times.

Without that disenfranchised base, I believe Trump would have been swamped and run over by the establishment pushing their favored candidate or Cruz.

Anonymous Jerome Horowitz January 27, 2016 1:03 PM  

farmer Tom January 27, 2016 12:04 PM
..
umm, because this is the mostest, importantest election. Ev-a ?
..
It's yuge...

Blogger praetorian January 27, 2016 1:03 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger praetorian January 27, 2016 1:04 PM  

Delenda est cuckthago

The only way to win... Is to get out of the way while Donald John Trump makes america great again.

Anonymous smedley January 27, 2016 1:05 PM  

This wouldn't be the first time the Donald won a debate without being physically there:

http://time.com/4072688/democratic-debate-twitter-donald-trump/

Blogger Nick S January 27, 2016 1:10 PM  

If you hate the sole Nationalist in the race and plan to vote for one of the Globalists, that's your prerogative; you don't have to vomit your lies/delusions here in an attempt to justify it. Just sack up and do it without our approval.

Assumes facts not in evidence. A catch-phrase does not a Nationalist make. Trump is a master mass manipulator. The epitome of crapitalism exploitation run amok. You are being punked. Seeking your approval would contraindicate sound judgement.

Look, Trump is a useful tool for poking the establishment, but that's as far as it goes. How much worse could it get, having 8 more years with a pathological narcissist in the oval office? A lot.

Blogger Gaiseric January 27, 2016 1:12 PM  

Some interesting asides: Donald Trump feud causes panicking Fox News CEO Roger Ailes to call Ivanka and Melania in attempt to get the frontrunner BACK to the debate - but he'll only speak to Murdoch Not coincidentally, while Megyn Kelly is fawning over Michael Moore.

Joe freakin' Scarborough even said: "First of all, a news organization that is going to run a debate provoking a candidate like that just is asking for it. Donald Trump, I will tell you, I would literally go to the center of Sixth Avenue and set myself on fire – set myself on fire before I stood on a debate stage with any news organization that did that statement. I would tell them to go to hell a lot faster than Donald Trump did. I’m not talking about Fox. I got a lot of friends at Fox. I love Fox. I know a lot of people at Fox are really twisted up about how this has gone down and how Megyn Kelly is somehow with Michael Moore taking over the network. They provoked him. They had to know."

Anonymous Quartermaster January 27, 2016 1:14 PM  

@71
Nate may be a clown, but he is entertaining.

@73
Trump has long had a relationship with Fox. It's just been since he decided to run under the GOP rubric that Fox has had trouble with him. If Ailes or Murdoch seriously thought he'd roll over for them, they were delusional.

@80
I think Trump did expect what happened. It was a “gotcha!” moment, and Kelly milked it for all it's worth. Now she, and Fox, are reaping what they've sown.

@83
“...and that I enjoy kicking.”

I guess you either like the fall, or getting back after you miss. Strange way to get off, but different strokes....

@133
if you really believe that nonsense then don't caucus for Trump. See how easy that is?

@141
Cruz is young and could, conceivably, get another bite at the apple. He's in training.

@155
The wacko birds in the Senate would probably vote to confirm just to get Cruz out of the Senate. I have the feeling Cruz would have more influence for good if he were on SCOTUS.

Anonymous WaterBoy January 27, 2016 1:15 PM  

rienzi @84: " If Cruz has more brains than a chimp, he'll dump the debate, and just show up unannounced at Trump's event, shaking hands and kissing babies.

Solidifies the perception that its a two man race, and leaves Fox with a non-event.
"


No. It makes Cruz look like a Johnny-come-lately, following Trump around like he's the real leader.

OBWAT on Politics

Blogger Rek. January 27, 2016 1:18 PM  

@163

Is his base really the disenfranchised or simply those who felt it was time to talk about immigration and islamisation. It's after those two declarations that Trump's numbers increased very significantly.

He has been surfing on these two issues for weeks now and this latest Fox stunt is his best strategy to be the most talked about GOP candidate with Iowa approaching without getting into an ambush.

The fact that he has been as relevant for months now has pushed his support amongst the afraican-americans and latinos.

Giuliani this morning or yesterday: "I'll give you one person I just had dinner with, the head of the Correction Workers Union (COBA) in New York, Norman Seabrook. African-American, enormously well respected. He said to me tonight, 'I'm endorsing Donald Trump, because he can get jobs,'" the former NYC mayor said.

Blogger praetorian January 27, 2016 1:22 PM  

Look, Trump is a useful tool for poking the establishment, but that's as far as it goes. How much worse could it get, having 8 more years with a pathological narcissist in the oval office? A lot.

You had me until that last part.

I got some bad news, bub: we are spending the next 8 years with a pathological narcissist in the oval office, regardless. Trump may or may not be a nationalist, but no one else is either. Trump is of course a pathological nacissist, but so is everyone else running for president (except, maybe, Paul, maybe).

Trump has already made presidential candidates shit-posting about elections on twitter real. He tweeted a pepe for Thor's sake! Who knows where this absolute madman meme magic ends?

Anonymous ZFG January 27, 2016 1:23 PM  

I and my fellow Iowans caucus next "Monday. Give me one good reason why I should vote for the chicken shit crybaby who doesn't have the balls to show up for the final debate in Iowa because Faux News?"

Because after The Donald is elected you'll want to be able to say you voted for him.

Anonymous Alexander January 27, 2016 1:30 PM  

@173 Perfectly said.

Blogger ScottD January 27, 2016 1:36 PM  

Although the media will reflexively support Kelly, what about regular women? I think they will support Trump for rejecting the Alpha Female. It's the trope of every chick flick.

Anonymous Kennymac January 27, 2016 1:39 PM  

@170 oh I completely agree. That's what makes this blog so great. If it was one big echo chamber it would be boring.

Blogger Nick S January 27, 2016 1:41 PM  

...but no one else..., but so is everyone else...

Deflect much?

Blogger Nate January 27, 2016 1:41 PM  

"Although the media will reflexively support Kelly, what about regular women? I think they will support Trump for rejecting the Alpha Female. "

women are not flocking to trump.. but he's more popular with women than the leftists want to admit.

Blogger Phelps January 27, 2016 1:41 PM  

Remember too, that as far as ethics go, the ETHICAL think for Kelly to do would be to say, "the story is supposed to be about the candidates, not the reporters. Now that I am part of the story, I must recuse myself from the debate."

But, as a true believer feminyst, Megyn the Womyn has to "stand up" to Donald the Alpha. Right before she hits her knees.

Blogger Booch Paradise January 27, 2016 1:44 PM  

@107
Well, I think you won the thread. Now that you mention it, that's why all of Nate/Josh/Farmer Tom's stuff sounds so stupid. It's not just that they think he's being fake with his political stances. They think he's a fake alpha male. That's why lowest common denominator alt right sites like return of kings is having more intelligent conversations than them.

Blogger Alexander January 27, 2016 1:44 PM  

Let's have a debate with no moderator. We can just have an automated voice ask preloaded questions in a randomized sequence.

Blogger Nate January 27, 2016 1:45 PM  

"if you feel Trump is so bad, who is the better candidate for office?

I ask as it seems you have plenty to say on the topic, but what candidate offers a better chance of really changing things?"

Mate...

Seriously.

I'm a southern nationalist. I'm a literal neo-confederate. I don't claim the us as my country. I want the south to be its own separate country.

Now... do you possibly see why I don't give a damn who gets elected...but of all of them.. a yankee nationalist kinda seems like a worse option?

Anonymous TLM January 27, 2016 1:46 PM  

The other candidates, if they weren't cucks, should skip this debate and join Trump at the WW rally. It's the only move they have that won't make them look like obedient wittle boys going along with what Megan wants and getting that cherished 'good boy' pat on the head by the Fox News faggots.

Blogger frigger611 January 27, 2016 1:47 PM  

Wonder how that happened? I typed it just once on my phone, then put phone in my pocket. Possible to butt-dial a reposting somehow? Sorry bout that, anyway

Blogger praetorian January 27, 2016 1:49 PM  

Deflect much?

Your presidential candidate must tweet this many pepe memes -->








For you to ride this train.

Woo wooooooooooooo.

Blogger bob k. mando January 27, 2016 1:51 PM  

103. farmer Tom January 27, 2016 11:12 AM
So, it's down to crunch time. I vote next Monday evening in the caucuses. And I will vote. Still haven't decided 100 percent for who I'll vote, but I will vote.



forgot to answer the question you actually asked.

here's how i'd lay it out:
IF you're going to maintain your 'Christian principles' as outlined in that post THEN you should still vote for Carson, just as you were going to back then.

IF your only principle NOW is 'anybody but Trump' THEN vote for the candidate most likely to keep him from winning. currently, this would appear to be Cruz.

IF your principle is only to beat the Demoncrat nominee THEN i think that any of Trump, Cruz, Rubio, Christie or Paul has the mental horsepower to pull that off in debates. but remember, it's not just smartness that is required. Romney was 'smart' enough to destroy Obama. he didn't have the balls to force the debate on the issues that he could have destroyed Obama on ... even after O showed himself as incompetent on them in the previous debate.

IF your principle is to destroy the Dennis Hastert pedophile faggot wing of the Republican party THEN ...



oh, one other thing. you assert that you are neck deep in the Iowa political establishment. could you keep an eye out for vote tabulating irregularities?

Ron Paul got severely hosed by the Repukes last time around. this is not to say that he should have won, but the Romney primary voting was clearly corrupt.

i'm curious how deep the rot goes.

Blogger Booch Paradise January 27, 2016 1:56 PM  

@183
The breakup is pretty much inevitable. The question is how much immigration you want to have to undo. Personally I prefer less. Even if it causes the breakup to be delayed.

Blogger Sheila4g January 27, 2016 1:59 PM  

@140 Jack Amok: "I think it's time to flip the table over. That's the only reason I'd be supporting a boorish Queens developer with a bad toupee."

This. I never really paid much attention to Trump in the past, I'll admit. I don't watch t.v. so never saw his "appprentice" show. Caught the occasional mention at the Daily Mail online over the past few years. If I had any opinion of him it was just that, a blowhard New Yorker. But regardless of his sincerity, I find myself cheering from the sidelines now. I love how he's pissing everybody off, from whatever group. They're all screaming, "But you can't do that!" And he just does whatever it is that's forbidden, or beyond the pale, or decried as stupid or politically disastrous by all the experts.

Like so many others here have said repeatedly, I have no great expectations for him should he win - but I have nothing but negative expectations for anyone else. For pissing off the NR cucks and causing the SJWs to scream "raciss" in increasing desperation, Trump has my support.

Anonymous farmer Tom January 27, 2016 2:10 PM  

Here is my original prediction on November 13th,

Notice that I said, AS THEY STAND TODAY.

Carson has collapsed, no question I was wrong about that. But, I will stand by the main point. Trump will not win Iowa, and he very likely will finish in 3rd place, to either Rubio Paul or Carson.(Carson is getting a resurgence for some unknown reason.)

75. farmer Tom November 13, 2015 10:43 AM

I could predict with at least 75 percent certainty that the results of the Iowa caucus based on things as they stand today will be 1. Carson
2. Trump
3.Cruz
4. Probably Rand because the RP people will hang to the end.

Hucksterbee
Santorum
Jebe
Jindal
and Chrispy Creme will follow in some order.

But after Trump's crazy show in Ft Dodge the other day, he may drop further. He's toast. He can not make it until Feb. 2nd without completely melting down.

He Ross Perot all over again. Crazy with lots of money.

AS OF TODAY, with this crazy stunt Trump pulled.

It will be

1.Cruz by at least 5 above 30 percent.
2/3.Trump/Rubio with about 20 percent each
4.Rand with about 12 to 15 percent.

Everybody but Cruz may be lower with Carson tossed in the mix stealing some of their numbers since he seems to be making a bit of a comeback, although I don't know if that will hold.

Anonymous Alexander January 27, 2016 2:10 PM  

The other reason I will support Trump is he is the least likely to step in and make sure the European displacement program continues apace, even if the Europeans themselves overthrow their governments.

If the Europeans want to commit suicide (as well), that's on them, and I wouldn't demand American blood and treasure be spent to prevent it. But I'd still rather not actively assist murdering my cousins... which is what a cuck in chief will push for.

That, or label them all huddled-masses-yearning-to-breath-free-Americans.

Blogger Alexander January 27, 2016 2:12 PM  

Yes, yes, I know - big beautiful door.

Blogger Josh January 27, 2016 2:13 PM  

.(Carson is getting a resurgence for some unknown reason.)

The Cruz tithe issue?

Blogger Unknown January 27, 2016 2:14 PM  

@187

I was never going to vote for Carson, never. Never said any such thing. I was telling you what I was seeing.

Carson actually nodding off during the November debates was when he started to tank. That killed him.



Anonymous farmer Tom January 27, 2016 2:15 PM  

Josh, probably.

That previous unknown comment was me, sorry.

Anonymous farmer Tom January 27, 2016 2:20 PM  

#144,

I agree with most everything you said, except Trump.

One question, what proof do you have that Cruz is beholden to the establishment, other than his wife works for the big Bankster class?

Blogger Josh January 27, 2016 2:27 PM  

One question, what proof do you have that Cruz is beholden to the establishment, other than his wife works for the big Bankster class?

He worked for the Bush Administration and the State of Texas. He got a massive amount of donations from lawyers.

Blogger Matamoros January 27, 2016 2:30 PM  

One might ponder the point that Trump has already put the GOP on notice that if they don't treat him right he may bolt into a 3rd party run.

This has to be a shot across the GOP bow as well as Fox's.

Anonymous SevenCrimes January 27, 2016 2:34 PM  

I have European friends who've told me they're desperate to see Trump elected, for the positive signal it'll send to their own local Nationalist movements. A Trump defeat in the US would also be a blow against every single European people trying to reverse/stave off an African/Middle Eastern invasion, an invasion already 4x larger and more successful than the one staved off at the Battle of Vienna.

Meanwhile, we still have folks here, of all places, shilling for Globalists all under the guise of "Conservative Purity," despite the fact that Conservatism has a 60 year history of failing to conserve anything at all, including the demographics of people who believe in Conservatism.

This is a civilization-level conflict, and we still have some "allies" trying to prevent our side from fighting it, all in favor of some idiotic litmus test for a political philosophy that was at its best irrelevant. I'm more and more annoyed at having to face a Globalist spearwall while also having to concern myself with Conservative knives in the back.

OpenID sigbouncer January 27, 2016 2:36 PM  

Nate your guy Jeff Sessions is gonna endorse Trump today.

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