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Sunday, February 28, 2016

American or Ameriboo?

Sarah Hoyt insists that she was "born American" in Portugal, to Portuguese parents:
I was born American. Yes, I was born in another country of foreign parents who would no more become American than fly unassisted, (and who desire it less than they wish to have have their heads shaved by a warthog) but I figure that was an accident of circumstance.  What really matters is that I was an American in my heart.  I just had to get here and become one in truth. (And that, by itself, is an American attitude.)

This week while talking to a friend about his foreign SO, I found myself explaining that other people, in other countries, have a hierarchy in their heads all the time — who is powerful, who isn’t, what attitude is proper.  You can find it (if you know where to look) even when reading British novels.

We’re not like that.  Whether we were born elsewhere or here, Americans — those of us who are proud of the name —  are rebels, revolutionaries, something new under the sun: a people who believe people should be equal in their right to life, the right to liberty, the right to pursue their happiness undisturbed by either inimical neighbors or oppressive “betters.”
It's a bit ironic, in that the ideas she is using to justify her "born American" claim were initially put forth by four not-exactly-American individuals, one a French tourist, one a French immigrant, one a Russian Jew living in Britain, and one a Jew of Portuguese descent born in New York City.

Not a single one of whom belonged to the American posterity for whom the blessings of liberty were intended, according to the Preamble to the Constitution.

It's telling, is it not, how all of these foreigners and immigrants just happened to produce a new definition of American that included them, a definition that was not held by the Founding Fathers. Nor is it a coincidence that this self-serving definition was subsequently used to justify the largest invasion to have ever taken place in human history, an invasion that has severely weakened the once-mighty American nation.

My fellow Native American, John Red Eagle, and I addressed this very point in our book Cuckservative:

America is not a propositional nation, it is a distinct nation of people with their own customs, traditions, DNA, and culture, and it is a nation that has the right to defend its own existence. 

The Founding Fathers were clear on the issue:

All persons born in the British American Colonies are, by the laws of God and nature and by the common law of England, exclusive of all charters from the Crown, well entitled, and by acts of the British Parliament are declared to be entitled, to all the natural, essential, inherent, and inseparable rights, liberties, and privileges of subjects born in Great Britain or within the realm.
 - Samuel Adams

"Although as to other foreigners it is thought better to discourage their settling together in large masses, wherein, as in our German settlements, they preserve for a long time their own languages, habits, and principles of government, and that they should distribute themselves sparsely among the natives for quicker amalgamation, yet English emigrants are without this inconvenience."
 - Thomas Jefferson

The opinion advanced is undoubtedly correct, that foreigners will generally be apt to bring with them attachments to the persons they have left behind; to the country of their nativity, and to its particular customs and manners. They will also entertain opinions on government congenial with those under which they have lived; or, if they should be led hither from a preference to ours, how extremely unlikely is it that they will bring with them that temperate love of liberty, so essential to real republicanism? 
- Alexander Hamilton

Why should the Palatine Boors be suffered to swarm into our settlements, and by herding together establish their languages and manners to the exclusion of ours? Why should Pennsylvania, founded by the English, become a colony of Aliens, who will shortly be so numerous as to Germanize us instead of our Anglifying them, and will never adopt our language or customs, any more than they can acquire our complexion?
- Ben Franklin

One cannot no more become an American by virtue of one's thoughts or feelings about revolution or equality than one can become Australian, Canadian, or any other nation of English descent. That's why, unlike Irish-Americans, Swedish-Americans, and Italian-Americans, there are no hybrid "English-Americans". Like it or not, the fact is that they are the American nation and the posterity of the Constitution.

The Japanese have a word for a foreigner who is so enamored of Japanese concepts and culture that they come to identify with it. We had a few in my class in Tokyo; they would wear their yukatas and religiously perform tea ceremonies every day. Sarah could be reasonably described as an American weebo.

The fact that America is a nation weakened and watered-down by mass immigration and over a century of intermingling with other nations does not change the fact of its historical existence. Many of its predecessor nations are now gone, lost forever to history, but that does not mean that they never existed in the first place.

The ironic thing about all this is that Sarah has repeatedly insisted that I "don't get Europe" despite having lived in a European country for nearly two decades and most of my adult life. And perhaps she is right. Every European country I have visited has customs that occasionally strike me as certifiably insane. But what is also true is that she doesn't know what America is, she is no more properly "American" than a Spanish-speaking Peruvian who has lived his entire life in Iquitos, and she certainly wasn't born American in any sense of the term.

She is, without question, what might be called USian. But it is increasingly apparent that there is a large and growing gap between the USian transnationalists and the American nationalists, a gap that history strongly suggests will lead to either secession or civil war.

Moreover, in order to claim that she is American while simultaneously denying that I am Italian, she must deny that America is - or increasingly, was - a distinct nation of people with their own customs, traditions, DNA, and culture. And is that something that anyone who loves the American nation and is truly part of it would do?

Marco Rubio and Rupert Murdoch claim to be Americans too. But their actions observably belie their claims. What Sarah is pushing is a bizzare form of replacement theology, where right-thinking New Americans are grafted on to replace those pesky Old Americans whose blood and traditions and Constitution are no longer deemed necessary to the replacement nation.

Sarah writes: "We are a radical experiment, a nation not of blood and genes, but a nation of heart, of mind, of belief."

Perhaps. But that is not America. That is the alien collective which is in the process of devouring the genuine American nation, staking claim to its property, and assuming its identity.

UPDATE: It is hilarious to see the commenters over there posturing, assuring Sarah she as American as they are, and asking "do you even history" while producing howlers like this:
The big difference you are missing – whether deliberately or not – is that the United States is not one of those nations formed by forcing other countries together into a whole.
In addition to eliminating hundreds of Indian nations (which is handwaved aside because Cherokee), there is the very slight matter of THE AMERICAN CIVIL WAR which ended the voluntary union of sovereign countries and established the modern USian empire.

Like every other multi-ethnic empire in history, the USA is held together by force and nothing more than force. And it won't hold together much longer, in part because there are now more Ameriboos than Americans residing in it.

UPDATE 2: See, they're all about freedom of speech because they are totally real Americans. A white knight nobly riding to Sarah's rescue - as if she can't defend herself - tweeted both of us this:
Vox Day is a fucking fascist... I will punch the guy in his nazi face if I ever find him!
It's funny to think how many people have said something like that. Yet for some reason, in person everyone tends to back down. I wonder if 29 years of weightlifting might have anything to do with that?

Labels: ,

255 Comments:

1 – 200 of 255 Newer› Newest»
Anonymous Steve February 28, 2016 8:39 AM  

Maybe she came out of the womb with one of those oversized novelty foam hands saying "WE'RE #1!"

Shame on you, Mr. Hatey-Hatemeister, for doubting that the struggle of Transamericans is real.

Anonymous Steve February 28, 2016 8:50 AM  

the right to pursue their happiness undisturbed by either inimical neighbors

Unless your government decides to turn your town into another little Mogadishu or (insert other failed Third World toiletbowl here).

Transpatriotism is still totes for reals though.

I was worried our baby might come out French, but thankfully he wasn't born with a tail.

My parents never understood me. They're Japanese.

Anonymous p-dawg February 28, 2016 8:51 AM  

Is Sarah Hoyt the new Michelle Malkin? I hope so.

Blogger Dexter February 28, 2016 8:57 AM  

She's like the stupid joke of a Colonel in Full Metal Jacket -- "Inside every gook is an American struggling to get out."

Blogger Mr.MantraMan February 28, 2016 8:57 AM  

This babble script is what is used to legitimize the word and concept of "racist", you can take a short trip from this drivel to any SJW drivel.

My guess Sarah is yet another scared woman and it is our fault. The left scream boogey man (racist) females of either sex then get scared and look for closest acceptable and respectable response and here we are with Sarah babbling on about ideas, safe ideas, respectable ideas.

Learn to disqualify the screamers of such words and be the Alpha man who protects his women, Trump does.

Anonymous kfg February 28, 2016 8:58 AM  

Well would you look at that. My cat just had biscuits in the oven.

Anonymous Steve February 28, 2016 9:01 AM  

kfg - Do you say "ayuh" like a Stephen King character?

(Please say yes)

Your American pal from England,

Steve xoxo

Blogger Dexter February 28, 2016 9:01 AM  

Whether we were born elsewhere or here, Americans — those of us who are proud of the name — are rebels, revolutionaries, something new under the sun: a people who believe people should be equal in their right to life, the right to liberty, the right to pursue their happiness undisturbed by either inimical neighbors or oppressive “betters.”

It seems wrong, and probably racist, that these born-elsewhere-Americans don't remain in their birth countries to bring the advantages of their revolutionary beliefs to their suffering brethren in their native lands.

It would be selfish of me, as an American, to permit Sarah to come here when there are still people in Portugal being disturbed by inimical neighbors and oppressive "betters."

Blogger FALPhil February 28, 2016 9:08 AM  

It seems wrong, and probably racist, that these born-elsewhere-Americans don't remain in their birth countries to bring the advantages of their revolutionary beliefs to their suffering brethren in their native lands.


Amen.

Anonymous kfg February 28, 2016 9:12 AM  

@7 Steve:

That's down east. Where I'm from it's more "ayup," with the "a" a bit vestigial. These days I only say it when I'm around other people that do.

Blogger hadley February 28, 2016 9:17 AM  

Rather than assume the responsibilities and duties of kinship, clan, tribe and nation, she abandoned and deserted her people and her culture, and refashioned herself "American". In times of war this is considered treason

That being said, I am sure she is a Nice Lady. As someone white who grew up in a conservative Christian culture, she would be a nice neighbor.

She could tell fascinating stories of growing up Portuguese in Portugal, and I could tell stories of growing up an American in the Midwest.

But I would not be presumptuous and tell her what Portugal and the Portuguese should do. Nor would I listen to her tell me what America and Americans should do.

We have all heard the Magic Dirt theory of Americanism. She suffers from a case of Magic Winds. She was an American at birth by huffing the fumes of America wafting their way across the Atlantic.

Blogger Skylark Thibedeau February 28, 2016 9:30 AM  

Gaijin! She screamed.

Blogger Unknown February 28, 2016 9:33 AM  

Ameriboo. That's the chan-speak you want. Look for the saga of Kenichi Smith.

Blogger pyrrhus February 28, 2016 9:42 AM  

I don't "get" Europe either, VD....Every time I'm there, it seems more and more like some kind of death cult, and the people seem very unhappy...

Blogger Nick S February 28, 2016 9:44 AM  

This is what happens when you have women and minorities sufficiently ensconced in diverse positions of authority.

Blogger VFM #7191 February 28, 2016 9:46 AM  

Hoyt: "And second, the record of nations by blood is goox? Are you an infant? And third, no offense, you re just a messenger boy, sent by greengrocers."

What an obnoxious bitch this woman is.

Blogger Salt February 28, 2016 9:51 AM  

Sarah's interpretation of American would have amused my grandmother, she having been born outside Appomattox in 1889, and having English (Suffolk) origin.

Sarah thinks herself, American. I say, interloper. She lays claim to what is not hers. She's a johnny-come-lately. Today, in this social climate, I am not amused. Sarah is Portuguese, and like Michael Jackson's journey unto whiteness, will forever be what she was born.

Sarah thinks herself part of the solution. She's not. People like her - ARE - the problem.

Blogger Scott6584 February 28, 2016 9:52 AM  

I am willing to cut Hoyt some slack. IMO, she internalized something Reagan said along the lines of those born in other countries that love freedom having a seed of being "American" in their hearts.

While I disagree with her, I would much prefer any immigrants who do come to America to have her love for being an American in her heart. It is in stark contrast to the Cinco de Mayo celebrations from Mexicans who despise the USA, but still sneak across the border to exploit our economy.

If we must have some legal immigration, then I want those who think like Hoyt over those who don't.

Blogger Student in Blue February 28, 2016 9:53 AM  

I am willing to cut Hoyt some slack.

That's why Vox is being civil.

Blogger VD February 28, 2016 9:55 AM  

Are you an infant? And third, no offense, you re just a messenger boy, sent by greengrocers.

Ah yes, it is so good to see the rarified heights of that civil intellectual discourse to which we are so often told we should aspire. An inspirational example to us all!

What an obnoxious bitch this woman is.

No, she's simply overmatched and she knows it. She's not a bad person, but she's being exposed to ideas that literally threaten a cherised core identity. Very few people handle that sort of thing gracefully.

Blogger VD February 28, 2016 9:59 AM  

If we must have some legal immigration, then I want those who think like Hoyt over those who don't.

Absolutely. But think of it from her perspective. If she is wrong, and I am correct, her very family could be torn apart when the wars start. If the nationalists win, there is a slim, but non-zero chance that she'd be sent back to Portugal.

One commenter here whose adopted niece and nephew are African told me that he found it impossible to think of being forced to choose between his nation-race and those he considers his family. And it would be terrible, no question.

And that is why the post-1965 invasion should have been stopped dead in its tracks in the first place. But it wasn't. So now we find ourselves facing the usual patterns of history, and no amount of ahistorical fairy tales are going to stop them.

Blogger Salt February 28, 2016 10:00 AM  

VD wrote:She's not a bad person, but she's being exposed to ideas that literally threaten a cherised core identity.

Right. She's on the road to being American. She acts like she's arrived. She hasn't. Her grandchildren may possibly achieve it. She never will. When she understands that, she'll understand when to keep her yap shut.

Anonymous Jim Mortensen February 28, 2016 10:05 AM  

I went and posted this on Sarah's blog, I doubt it will get through so i'll place it here as well.

"I would like to state definitively that I am Sarah A. Hoyt - the one true Sarah A. Hoyt.

Now it might be that others will try to lay claim to my identity. They will use trivial arguments like birth or bloodline to naively claim a "stronger" right to this title, mere accidents of circumstance.

While it may be true that they spent decades of their life accruing both physical and social assets that are linked to this identity, such petty concerns help demonstrate that they are not truly Sarah A. Hoyt.

What matters is that I was Sarah A. Hoyt in my heart!!

The fact that I am making a conscious decision to adopt this identity clearly demonstrates the superiority of my claim to it, unhindered by my oppressive "betters",

I was born very far away, in a very (trust me) strange body, I never fit in there. The hierarchy of identity seemed wrong and contrived. I evaluated people for what they did, not their clothes or their name. I will not bow to or obey the cruel dictates of this tyrant imposter, instead I will embody my true identity by rolling up my sleeves to fix this wrong. And if some fraud chooses to moan about my claims, it only serves to prove them all the more.


I am a radical experiment, a person not of blood and genes, but a being of heart, of mind, of belief...please surrender the title deeds to my house and car to me and stop writing on my blog!"

Anonymous Gyclone Bob February 28, 2016 10:10 AM  

She was born a poor black child.

Blogger Positive Dennis February 28, 2016 10:10 AM  

One reason Franklin did not like the Germans was a community of them in Ephratha

Blogger Positive Dennis February 28, 2016 10:10 AM  

That competed with Franklin's book publishing business

Blogger Salt February 28, 2016 10:20 AM  

I walked out to the mailbox and on the way there it hit me “I am an American now. I belong, in law as I always did in my heart.”

The immigrant becomes a citizen. The immigrant lays claim to now being American. Only by law, Sarah. But no more so than a Judge proclaiming, by law, that Bruce is now Caitlan. Now, if Sarah can successfully demonstrate that Bruce is, in effect, truly Caitlan, a woman, then she'll have won the argument.

Blogger Scott6584 February 28, 2016 10:20 AM  

I am willing to cut Hoyt some slack. IMO, she internalized something Reagan said along the lines of those born in other countries that love freedom having a seed of being "American" in their hearts.

While I disagree with her, I would much prefer any immigrants who do come to America to have her love for being an American in her heart. It is in stark contrast to the Cinco de Mayo celebrations from Mexicans who despise the USA, but still sneak across the border to exploit our economy.

If we must have some legal immigration, then I want those who think like Hoyt over those who don't.

Anonymous Wyrd February 28, 2016 10:21 AM  

If Bruce Jenner can be a woman and Rachel Dolezal is black, Sarah qualifies as American. And I self-identify as Pope Alexander VI. Fear my boy Cesare Borgia

Blogger Hostem Populi February 28, 2016 10:23 AM  

I now identify as Donald Trump and demand access to my bank accounts and Melania.

Blogger Epimandes February 28, 2016 10:30 AM  

It's weeaboo, not "weeboo."

Anonymous VFM #6306 February 28, 2016 10:35 AM  

Experiments fail all the time.

Anonymous Be Not Afraid February 28, 2016 10:36 AM  

I read Hoyt's blog regularly, and have enjoyed her novels. I see her as a sincere actor here. She has done the best she can to assimilate to our culture. She's not demanding we speak Portugese or celebrate (insert Portugese holiday here). When she sees nativism, she may well think, "they hate me and will kick me and my family out," and so of course she gets upset. I suppose she'll be in full TDS mode soon.

Hoyt is in stark contrast to those from south of the border, who have no wish to assimilate, but just want the benefits available to those who live here; and also to those from the ME, setting up their little -stans in burned out Dem-rotted cities here, advocating for sharia law, and going all "admiral ackbar" on us.

To me, Sarah is the kind of immigrant we want. She's basically one of the USA-ians from her novels. But people like her seem to be a vanishingly small few in the vast tidal wave of non-assimilating immigrants we are seeing these days. And if we don't stop that, nothing else will matter, because there will be no more USA.

Anonymous VFM #6306 February 28, 2016 10:40 AM  

Epimandes, that's a double-mispelled "correction." He is using the Japanese term, not the fanboy American.

Blogger Salt February 28, 2016 10:41 AM  

Be Not Afraid wrote:To me, Sarah is the kind of immigrant we want.

Agreed. But Sarah needs to know her place, that she is American by law only. I welcome her. But she'd do best not to lecture on what it is to be American. She's simply not qualified.

Blogger Gastguma February 28, 2016 10:43 AM  

For those who immigrate, assimilation is a must. An older man I know who was born here, but whose parents were from Norway said that when he was younger his teacher told his parents that he was speaking Norwegian in school at times. His parents told him to cut it out and speak English. Many other around here have similar stories. Now the there are innumerable languages spoken in a nearby city and the city leadership actually celebrates it (celebrate the fact that no one can understand each other?) I don't think of myself as a Norwegian-Dutch-Irish-German American despite that being my ancestry. The problem with the idea of being born American unnatively is that it implies assimilation is not necessary. Assimilation requires willingness, pressure, and time (sometimes multiple generations). It is easier for some groups than others.

Blogger James Dixon February 28, 2016 10:45 AM  

>> Sarah writes: "We are a radical experiment, a nation not of blood and genes, but a nation of heart, of mind, of belief."

> Perhaps. But that is not America.

Equally importantly, she thinks she's qualified to overrule the judgements of existing Americans born in this country with families going back 200-400 years (yes, my wife has family going back to Jamestown, and I can show you the gravestones of family members from the 1700's).

Look, Sarah. Trump is running as a populist. And we understand that you've have bad experiences with populists in the past. But Trump is an American in ways you'll never be. He understands the principles of America better than you do. He understands them at an instinctive level. He's our populist, and while he may break his promises, he won't betray us. If elected, he won't turn the IRS loose on his opponents the way Obama has and he won't declare them enemies of the state and try to brand them terrorists the way Obama has. Obama isn't an American. He never was and he never will be. You had far more to worry about from him than you ever will from Trump.

Trump may very well act with executive action outside the approval of Congress exactly as Obama has, because Congressional inaction has effectively determined that's permissible. We're not the ones who made that precedent, but there's no reason for us not to abide by it once it's been set.

Trump can build his wall, because that's existing law just waiting to be acted upon. Trump can deport all of the illegal immigrants, because that's exiting law that simply hasn't been enforced. Trump can halt all immigration from Muslim countries, because that precedent has already been set. Trump can force any anchor babies to go back with their parents, because that precedent has already been set (Elián González).

More than that: If Trump wanted to force through a law saying the second amendment reasonably requires that all men of militia age be required to purchase and be trained in the use of a gun, he could do so, by precedent of Obamacare. If Trump wanted to require everyone to register to vote or pay a tax, he could do so, by precedent of Obamacare. He could possibly even require them to vote or pay am additional tax. It's arguable that he could even set different tax rates for different party affiliations. He could definitely set different tax rates by income level, since Obamacare already does. Existing precedent is that he could even round up every Muslim immigrant and put them into concentration camps, since we're still "at war", as the neocons claim. He could do all of these things. But he won't do any of them. Because he's an American, and he understands that Americans don't do these things. They fix the things that are broken as best they can, and they continue on, trying to preserve the rule of law and the blessings of liberty for themselves and their posterity.

Blogger VD February 28, 2016 10:51 AM  

To me, Sarah is the kind of immigrant we want. She's basically one of the USA-ians from her novels.

That's fine. One could even say that I am similar in the other direction. The difference is that unlike me, she actively provides intellectual and political cover for the other sort of immigrant and is attempting to hold the gates open for all sorts of immigrants.

Which means that she isn't the sort that the USA wants or needs after all. She's no different than Ted Kennedy or Immanuel Celler, partially-assimilated immigrants who declared more immigration was better.

Blogger Cecil Henry February 28, 2016 10:51 AM  

In my heart, I know I am an owner of this bank.

I love the bank, I live its principles, I deserve to be an owner.

Now, where's the vault anyway???

Blogger Escoffier February 28, 2016 10:52 AM  

Scott6584 wrote:
While I disagree with her, I would much prefer any immigrants who do come to America to have her love for being an American in her heart. It is in stark contrast to the Cinco de Mayo celebrations from Mexicans who despise the USA, but still sneak across the border to exploit our economy.

If we must have some legal immigration, then I want those who think like Hoyt over those who don't.


Be Not Afraid wrote:
To me, Sarah is the kind of immigrant we want. She's basically one of the USA-ians from her novels. But people like her seem to be a vanishingly small few in the vast tidal wave of non-assimilating immigrants we are seeing these days. And if we don't stop that, nothing else will matter, because there will be no more USA.


Guys I think you're missing the elephant in her comments. She 'says' she loves America but at the exact same time redefines America as something inimical to us and our posterity. Do you really support that? Please explain?

Also, I would absolutely prefer the Mexican flag waving retards that march around in the streets, unlike Sarah it's painfully obvious they are enemies and should be removed.

Blogger Escoffier February 28, 2016 10:53 AM  

Damn, great minds think alike!

VD wrote:To me, Sarah is the kind of immigrant we want. She's basically one of the USA-ians from her novels.

That's fine. One could even say that I am similar in the other direction. The difference is that unlike me, she actively provides intellectual and political cover for the other sort of immigrant and is attempting to hold the gates open for all sorts of immigrants.

Which means that she isn't the sort that the USA wants or needs after all. She's no different than Ted Kennedy or Immanuel Celler, partially-assimilated immigrants who declared more immigration was better.

Blogger VD February 28, 2016 10:54 AM  

Ameriboo. That's the chan-speak you want.

That's a useful term. American vs Ameriboo is precisely the divide of which I speak.

Blogger James Dixon February 28, 2016 10:54 AM  

> To me, Sarah is the kind of immigrant we want.

Yes, she is. And she's welcome. But she isn't an American in the same sense even third generation Americans are, much less 5th or more.

> But she'd do best not to lecture on what it is to be American. She's simply not qualified.

Exactly. It's our place to choose our presidential candidates, and if she doesn't like our choices that's her problem, not ours.

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr February 28, 2016 10:57 AM  

I've got a simple compromise. We'll keep Sarah, and kick Hillary Clinton out instead.

Anonymous Mike February 28, 2016 11:05 AM  

As Georgie Anne Geyer pointed out in Americans No More, it was Lincoln who changed the definition of American citizenship to belief in a "proposition." To some, this sounds noble and inclusive, but what it implies is that you must conform to established thought or be branded a traitor.

Blogger 1337kestrel February 28, 2016 11:06 AM  

Here's the thing. America, the nation descended mostly from English with some other Europeans and a few assorted others, which has values like self reliance, stoicism, internal honor, liberty and natural rights, does exist.

The legal entity known as the United States, and its various peoples who have adopted 20th century liberal ideas like the Melting Pot, also exists. You don't want to call it America? That's going to be a hard sell. But Sarah Hoyt obviously belongs to that entity. You're not attacking her identity. You're attacking her definition of "American."

We need a term for the nation of the founders, and American kinda sorta works. Making a distinction and explaining it so everyone understands the tribal playing field makes sense. But I see little hope of convincing people like Sarah to refer to themselves as "United Statesians."

Anonymous VFM #6306 February 28, 2016 11:10 AM  

Cuckservatives don't refer to themselves as such, kestrel. The term still sticks.

Blogger VD February 28, 2016 11:13 AM  

We need a term for the nation of the founders, and American kinda sorta works. Making a distinction and explaining it so everyone understands the tribal playing field makes sense. But I see little hope of convincing people like Sarah to refer to themselves as "United Statesians."

I agree. I don't expect to convince them of anything at all. If history is any guide, they'll still be screaming "Me be real American" when the civil wars begin and ultranationalists are dragging them from their homes.

That's what is so pernicious about their ideology. They create the very scenarios they decry.

Anonymous Brick Hardslab February 28, 2016 11:16 AM  

It's her mistake to keep harping on this. She is not American by culture and never will be. If she keeps opening her yapper her children might lose their chance to be Americans.

It's as simple as this. Three outcomes. We stop the invasion (which she is a part of and still supports), we fail and become Brazil or worse, or we fail and someone a lot harder comes along and she and her children wind up back in Portugal.

Those are the choices. When push came to shove it was trivially easy to split the Blacks from the mainstream and they've been here for three hundred plus years. They speak English and they are born and raised here. How long will it take the Mexican Invasion to assimilate? Five hundred years? Never? Faced with that, those hard men will do what they see is necessary to keep their country. They will deport retroactively and strip immigrants of residency and citizenship. Which of the three does she want because history shows there can be only one of these outcomes.

Blogger 1337kestrel February 28, 2016 11:21 AM  

When Vox has a 4 day debate with a cuckservative about why he should be called a cuckservative, I imagine it has a purpose. Either to rally the "mil-right", to divide and conquer, or to persuade the target to stop being a cuck. Vox is great at pissing people off, which usually serves a purpose.

What possible purpose can be achieved by telling Sarah that her definition of American is wrong? I just don't see this action winning hearts and minds.

Blogger wrf3 February 28, 2016 11:23 AM  

Mike @45: "but what it implies is that you must conform to established thought or be branded a traitor."

As in, "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved"?

Bear fruits worthy of repentance. Do not begin to say to yourselves, "We have Abraham as our ancestor'; for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children to Abraham.

The only defense Vox has is pragmatism, realizing that this is not the kingdom of heaven. Vox's pragmatism or Sarah's idealism?

Blogger hooligan February 28, 2016 11:24 AM  

"More than that: If Trump wanted to force through a law saying the second amendment reasonably requires that all men of militia age be required to purchase and be trained in the use of a gun, he could do so, by precedent of Obamacare."

Obamacare was deemed legitimate because the SC decided it was a lawful example of the taxing power of Congress. Unless Trump levied a tax upon those who disobeyed, one could not consider Obamacare as a precedent.

Blogger bob k. mando February 28, 2016 11:26 AM  

7. Steve February 28, 2016 9:01 AM
(Please say yes)



*dope slaps Steve*

"Please say a-yuh."


33. Be Not Afraid February 28, 2016 10:36 AM
She's not demanding we speak Portugese or celebrate (insert Portugese holiday here).



but she IS demanding that we accept her Marxist definition of America ... which, according to her own testimony, she acquired by reading socialistic Heinlein ...
over the actual historical record.



40. Escoffier February 28, 2016 10:52 AM
She 'says' she loves America but at the exact same time redefines America as something inimical to us and our posterity.



this.

look, i don't even begrudge Sarah her opinion OR her desire to bring the US into greater conformity with her opinion. she is practicing her right to speech, after all.

it's when she overtly lies about the principles upon which this nation was founded and when she asserts authority over natural born Americans, tells them to sit down and SHUT UP because *she* knows what America *really* is, that i lose all patience with her.

if i wanted to talk to a pompous little immigrant shit like that, i'd be over on Taylor's blog.

Anonymous BGKB February 28, 2016 11:27 AM  

I self Identify as George Soros now let me at those billions of ill gotten gains.

I was worried our baby might come out French, but thankfully he wasn't born with a tail.

Are you a Trans-parent?

If elected, he won't turn the IRS loose on his opponents the way Obama has and he won't declare them enemies of the state and try to brand them terrorists the way Obama has

I expect he will do a tit for tat, and have as many leftists investigated by the IRS as conservative groups, as slapping Lehner on the wrists only invites the next Lehner.

Blogger Escoffier February 28, 2016 11:31 AM  

1337kestrel wrote:
What possible purpose can be achieved by telling Sarah that her definition of American is wrong? I just don't see this action winning hearts and minds.


Because the more she is poked and goaded the more she reveals, to those who can see, that she is most definitely NOT an American in any way that counts. By this I don't think she is a bad person but I do think she holds to an ideology that is both pernicious and subtle, which makes it hard to fight. I applaud Vox for engaging because every time it becomes clearer to me at least that her ideas about "Americanism" are batshit insane and demonstrably every bit as dangerous to our nation as the Mexican retards marching around in the streets with giant Mexican flags and yet it has taken in several commenters here on this blog.

How about that?

Immigrants don't get to come into this country and presume to tell us what being an American is all about. Full stop, that simple.

Blogger James Dixon February 28, 2016 11:34 AM  

> Unless Trump levied a tax upon those who disobeyed, one could not consider Obamacare as a precedent.

Well, duh. That went without saying.

Blogger VD February 28, 2016 11:35 AM  

What possible purpose can be achieved by telling Sarah that her definition of American is wrong? I just don't see this action winning hearts and minds.

The purpose is to expose the truth to those who do not know it. Why do you think my actions are EVER intended to win hearts and minds?

Blogger VD February 28, 2016 11:36 AM  

I applaud Vox for engaging because every time it becomes clearer to me at least that her ideas about "Americanism" are batshit insane and demonstrably every bit as dangerous to our nation as the Mexican retards marching around in the streets with giant Mexican flags and yet it has taken in several commenters here on this blog.

This is always the case when someone is advocating something that is not true. The more they expound, the more others can see that what they are saying is not true.

Blogger Escoffier February 28, 2016 11:38 AM  

bob k. mando wrote:She's not demanding we speak Portugese or celebrate (insert Portugese holiday here).

but she IS demanding that we accept her Marxist definition of America ... which, according to her own testimony, she acquired by reading socialistic Heinlein ...

over the actual historical record.


This!

I sometimes marvel at just how successful the mind virus of Marxism has been at penetrating and changing Western culture to the point that it is the air we breath and the light we see by. Try to imagine a non Marxist reality, it's easy if you try.

Blogger Student in Blue February 28, 2016 11:40 AM  

@1337kestrel
What possible purpose can be achieved by telling Sarah that her definition of American is wrong? I just don't see this action winning hearts and minds.

Sarah has nominally been an ally in the past. The genteel thing to do is to discuss rationally and fairly at the very least because of past friendship.

Anonymous Epimandes February 28, 2016 11:40 AM  

"Epimandes, that's a double-mispelled "correction." He is using the Japanese term, not the fanboy American."

I have never seen "weeboo" used before this blog post. The Japanese term for a foreigner who likes Japan is no different from that of a simple foreigner: 外人 (or 外国人 if they're being polite). There is also a word for an obsessive anime fan, オタク, but this can be applied to either foreigners or Japanese.

There's also no "wee" sound in Modern Japanese (although there was one in Old Japanese), which also makes me doubt the veracity of your proposed etymology of "weeboo" being used by native Japanese.

Blogger VD February 28, 2016 11:41 AM  

By the way, I should point out that when I was a child, I was entirely taken in by the same notion of Americanism too. I read Lincoln, I read Heinlein, and so forth. It wasn't until I actually read Jefferson, Washington, and especially Sam Adams that I realized it was all retroactive, ahistorical bullshit written by a) the winners of the Civil War and b) immigrants romanticizing the immigrant experience.

The idea of the Founders was that a small number of immigrants would come over and breed themselves English. That's precisely why Franklin didn't want ethnic enclaves and was unhappy about Pennsylvania. And, as I have pointed out, the later comers never fully understood or accepted the English concepts of limited government and so forth.

Blogger James Dixon February 28, 2016 11:41 AM  

> I expect he will do a tit for tat, and have as many leftists investigated by the IRS as conservative groups, as slapping Lehner on the wrists only invites the next Lehner.

I'd think he'd rather prosecute Lehner to the full extent possible.

> ...and when she asserts authority over natural born Americans, tells them to sit down and SHUT UP because *she* knows what America *really* is, that i lose all patience with her.

> Immigrants don't get to come into this country and presume to tell us what being an American is all about. Full stop, that simple.

Exactly. Well said, in both cases.

Blogger VD February 28, 2016 11:43 AM  

"Epimandes, that's a double-mispelled "correction." He is using the Japanese term, not the fanboy American."

Yeah, I think I was simply wrong. We didn't call them weeaboos, we called them wannabees. Mostly we referred to them as NAME-san.

Anonymous Roundtine February 28, 2016 11:44 AM  

If America was a proposition nation, then anyone advocating for warrantless searches, direct taxes and gun control at the federal level would be stripped of citizenship and deported. Most of the people who say it is a proposition nation, do not believe in the very propositions that made America.

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian February 28, 2016 11:49 AM  

Would Texiboo be the equivalent in regards to Texas instead of America?

Anonymous Mr. Rational February 28, 2016 11:52 AM  

@0 That is the alien collective which is in the process of devouring the genuine American nation, staking claim to its property, and assuming its identity.
The "Proposition nationals" are the pod-people.

@37 Trump can force any anchor babies to go back with their parents, because that precedent has already been set (Elián González).

Elián González was not born on US soil.  We still need legislation at least.

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 February 28, 2016 11:55 AM  

In addition to eliminating hundreds of Indian nations (which is handwaved aside because Cherokee)

I'm not sure this counts, since those Indian nations did not actually become part of America in any meaningful way. The Civil War certainly counts, though.


Like every other multi-ethnic empire in history, the USA is held together by force and nothing more than force

I don't really agree with this. Lacking the threat of force, there would indeed be a lot more inter-ethnic violence than there currently is, but it wouldn't all be that way. I don't even think the majority would be this way. That said, we certainly seem to be heading in this direction.

Blogger Weouro February 28, 2016 11:56 AM  

That's a good point--I never noticed the absence of "English-Americans." There aren't really any German-Americans or French-Americans either, as compared to Irish or Italians. This could be because French, Germans and English were mingled for centuries in Great Britain as Anglo-Saxons and if I remember correctly the Normans who who conquered Great Britain were also the descendents of Saxons who conquered France. So those groups were commingled in England long before the appearance of America as a political reality.

Anonymous The other robot February 28, 2016 11:58 AM  

there is the very slight matter of THE AMERICAN CIVIL WAR which ended the voluntary union of sovereign countries and established the modern USian empire.

But, but, but, Lincoln freed the slaves and allowed many of them to die in dignity.

Well, if you consider starving to be dying in dignity, then I guess so.

Anonymous Roundtine February 28, 2016 12:02 PM  

@67
I could secede from USG and live in a nation according to the principles advocated by our forefathers, I would do it tomorrow. Many people from rural upstate New York, all the way down the Appalachians, to the Gulf of Mexico, across to Texas, and back up through Canada and to Alaska would depart as well if they could.

Blogger Escoffier February 28, 2016 12:02 PM  

White Knight Leo #0368 wrote:In addition to eliminating hundreds of Indian nations (which is handwaved aside because Cherokee)

I'm not sure this counts, since those Indian nations did not actually become part of America in any meaningful way. The Civil War certainly counts, though.

Like every other multi-ethnic empire in history, the USA is held together by force and nothing more than force

I don't really agree with this. Lacking the threat of force, there would indeed be a lot more inter-ethnic violence than there currently is, but it wouldn't all be that way. I don't even think the majority would be this way. That said, we certainly seem to be heading in this direction.


Every polyglot empire in history has split along racial or ethnic lines. And the process is always violent, bloody and protracted. What will the denizens of Detroitistan do when they are starving and hungry and cold? What will their neighbors do to protect themselves? The scenarios spin themselves.

Blogger Cinco February 28, 2016 12:07 PM  

We need a term for the nation of the founders

Whenwewerefreeland? It's inhabitants were: Whenwewerefreelandians.

Blogger James Dixon February 28, 2016 12:07 PM  

> Elián González was not born on US soil. We still need legislation at least.

By law, he became an American citizen when he crossed the border (http://immigration.about.com/od/immigrationlawandpolicy/a/U-S-Allows-Cuban-Migrants-Different-Treatment.htm). He was deported anyway. That's the precedent that's been set.

Anonymous Stocking-tease February 28, 2016 12:09 PM  

Taking slaves out of the equation, did the civil war have an ethnic component?

Anonymous Maximo Macaroni February 28, 2016 12:11 PM  

How would Sarah know if she had been born Portuguese? Isn't she telling all freedom-loving Portygees that they were really born American and should leave and go to America?

Blogger VD February 28, 2016 12:13 PM  

I don't really agree with this. Lacking the threat of force, there would indeed be a lot more inter-ethnic violence than there currently is, but it wouldn't all be that way.

Among other things, there would be at least 15 fewer states.

Blogger VD February 28, 2016 12:14 PM  

Taking slaves out of the equation, did the civil war have an ethnic component?

Yes. The Union relied heavily on newly-arrived immigrants. Look up "Civil War draft riots".

Blogger Jack Aubrey February 28, 2016 12:19 PM  

I was born and raised in Canada, of Canadian parents and English grandparents. I never felt at home in Canada, and always considered myself a "closet American." I emigrated to the USA 30 years ago and have been here ever since. I have been a US citizen for over 20 years; I love the USA and will never go back voluntarily. However it is clear to me that I am not, and never will be, truly American despite the relative similarity of the two countries.

Blogger Salt February 28, 2016 12:26 PM  

A comment at Hoyt's - Americans are different from their forebears in Europe and it’s not a matter of blood. It’s a matter of attitude.

Yes, Mogadishu can surely be American, if only.

Blogger dienw February 28, 2016 12:29 PM  

@64. Roundtine
If America was a proposition nation...
They would find those propositions written down somewhere, make sure every child was educated in them, that those children knew the meaning of the words and phrases, that immigrants also would be soundly educated, and that those who sat as judges would be required to be strict constructionists....Oh, wait, that is not what they want: they want a living document; the reality is that they're lying about the United States being a propositional nation.

Anonymous #8601 Jean Valjean February 28, 2016 12:32 PM  

The MSM want The Donald to disavow David Duke.

Classic.

Anonymous Mr. Rational February 28, 2016 12:35 PM  

@73 You are wrong, and even your reference says so.  A dry-foot Cuban is on track to permanent residency, which is not immediate citizenship.  Further, international law on child custody still applies.

Now, I see nothing wrong with asserting that children of illegal immigrants are not subject to American law as they inherit nationality from their parents (like Ted Cruz) and are thus removable along with them.  But that can be challenged in the courts unless and until fixed in law.

Anonymous English-American February 28, 2016 12:35 PM  

Jack, identify as english-canadian-american. It sounds better than closet-american.

Blogger buwaya puti February 28, 2016 12:37 PM  

Ahem, being Sarah Hoyt-like, but not quite as I am not a US citizen -
US reality was never quite as purely nation-statish as claimed. For one, the Germans, as noted. And the Dutch. And lots more Germans came in after Franklin got done worrying about them. And then there were hordes of Papist Irish. The US was not culturally "clean" in 1860. And note that the cultural influence of the Germans was extremely powerful. US public education began to be "German" in 1837. Over time, this was an overwhelming influence behind what you think is wrong in the country. If you want to call it rot, it goes to the beginning.
And if the problem is statism, the single biggest driver behind statist interference is the oldest unassimilated population, the African Americans. You can't say they aren't natives, they are, as much as any Scots-Irish hillman.
But they are on the furthest opposite side of what you want to claim as your essence. And the fact that they exist, and do not assimilate, is by far the most powerful driver of statist power. Portuguese or Filipinos barely matter.
Perhaps I am biased - I am after all a remnant of the multi ethnic Spanish empire, and a member of a clan of professional expats spread over four continents, but to me your deification of ethnic essentials seems very silly.
I have seen the effect of some of the sort of ethnic- first policies in Asia, and they are uniformly paralyzing. Bans on foreign investment, on foreign ownership of land, anti-Chinese laws, import bans and high tarriffs, preferential treatment of "natives", cultural policies to prevent assimilation, formalized ethnic designations. I have seen it all. You are on the wrong track.

Blogger dienw February 28, 2016 12:38 PM  

@68. Weouro

There aren't really any German-Americans or French-Americans either, as compared to Irish or Italians. This could be because French, Germans and English were mingled for centuries in Great Britain as Anglo-Saxons and if I remember correctly the Normans who who conquered Great Britain were also the descendants of Saxons who conquered France. So those groups were commingled in England long before the appearance of America as a political reality.

The Norse - Vikings/Scandinavians - were also mingled in England. One group of Norse settled in France and became the Normans.

The Irish word for viking became Higgins in English via Wales, which was my maternal grandfather's name.

Blogger James Dixon February 28, 2016 12:41 PM  

> You are wrong, and even your reference says so.

OK. I'll admit to error.

> Further, international law on child custody still applies.

And the precedent that children go with their guardian is still set.

> But that can be challenged in the courts unless and until fixed in law.

Pretty much anything can be challenged int he courts, and will be, but Trump can deport them until it's decided.

Anonymous Brick Hardslab February 28, 2016 12:47 PM  

@84 another non-American telling American's how we should interpret our history and act in the future.

Thank you when we want the advice of failed Empires and also-rans we'll ask any of the dozen or so Spanish speaking nations to the south.

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 February 28, 2016 12:48 PM  

@80

That's not what they want. But it's what I want.

Blogger Escoffier February 28, 2016 12:50 PM  

buwaya puti wrote:Ahem, being Sarah Hoyt-like, but not quite as I am not a US citizen -

US reality was never quite as purely nation-statish as claimed. For one, the Germans, as noted. And the Dutch. And lots more Germans came in after Franklin got done worrying about them. And then there were hordes of Papist Irish. The US was not culturally "clean" in 1860. And note that the cultural influence of the Germans was extremely powerful. US public education began to be "German" in 1837. Over time, this was an overwhelming influence behind what you think is wrong in the country. If you want to call it rot, it goes to the beginning.

And if the problem is statism, the single biggest driver behind statist interference is the oldest unassimilated population, the African Americans. You can't say they aren't natives, they are, as much as any Scots-Irish hillman.

But they are on the furthest opposite side of what you want to claim as your essence. And the fact that they exist, and do not assimilate, is by far the most powerful driver of statist power. Portuguese or Filipinos barely matter.

Perhaps I am biased - I am after all a remnant of the multi ethnic Spanish empire, and a member of a clan of professional expats spread over four continents, but to me your deification of ethnic essentials seems very silly.

I have seen the effect of some of the sort of ethnic- first policies in Asia, and they are uniformly paralyzing. Bans on foreign investment, on foreign ownership of land, anti-Chinese laws, import bans and high tarriffs, preferential treatment of "natives", cultural policies to prevent assimilation, formalized ethnic designations. I have seen it all. You are on the wrong track.


That's a nice strawman you got there buwaya shame you weren't able to follow the actual substance of the debate. Because boiling your proposition down you are asserting, apropos of nothing, that America is indeed a proposition nation. It's like a magic trick by a particularly untalented magician. (does the sideways clap from Galaxy Quest)

Blogger bob k. mando February 28, 2016 12:53 PM  

59. Student in Blue February 28, 2016 11:40 AM
The genteel thing to do is to discuss rationally and fairly at the very least because of past friendship.



which is fine ... so long as Sarah also thus comports herself.

calling us "stupid rubes who don't know what America is" falls somewhat outside the bounds of gentility, in my definition.

she wants a shitstorm? we can give her a shitstorm.



68. Weouro February 28, 2016 11:56 AM
That's a good point--I never noticed the absence of "English-Americans." There aren't really any German-Americans ... This could be because



no, the 'absence' of German-Americans is due to two things. WW1 and WW2.

all four of my grandparents grew up speaking PennDutch. all of them pretended not to remember any of it when i was growing up. there was a reason for that.



74. Stocking-tease February 28, 2016 12:09 PM
Taking slaves out of the equation, did the civil war have an ethnic component?



a heavily disproportionate part of the Union troops were Irish involuntary draftees. look up the NYC draft riots.

my suspicion would be that a good deal of the anti-slavery movement came out of the German / Nordic farmers of the Midwest. the Republican Party was founded in rural Wisconsin. of course, the New England impetus to Abolition should not be discounted.

Blogger VD February 28, 2016 12:56 PM  

The US was not culturally "clean" in 1860. And note that the cultural influence of the Germans was extremely powerful. US public education began to be "German" in 1837. Over time, this was an overwhelming influence behind what you think is wrong in the country. If you want to call it rot, it goes to the beginning.

Yes, it does. The Founders were flawed and the system they constructed was imperfect. This is hardly news.

Perhaps I am biased.

You are. You are an immigrant defending immigration. Your position is entirely predictable, as is your constant refrain of how wonderful Filipinos are, despite your preference to not live among them, but instead in white American culture.

I have seen it all. You are on the wrong track.

I have seen Asia too. You are entirely wrong. China remains China. Japan remains Japan. We don't know if Sweden will remain Sweden yet or not. As for the USA, it will break apart in ethnic warfare, like all multi-ethnic empires do in time. It's already beginning, even if you can't see it yet. It increasingly looks like it might happen faster than my 2033 timetable.

I said the same thing about the EU ten years ago. People said I was crazy for saying so. Nobody says that anymore.

Blogger buwaya puti February 28, 2016 1:03 PM  

To continue -
I reside in San Francisco. My wife is a native of the city. The details of local history are interesting. One that jumps out is just how "foreign" San Francisco always was. This place, and its hinterland, was never a single culture. You can walk in the churchyard of Mission Dolores, the core and root of the town, and the headstones carry the names of the modern streets. And these are Spanish. The great men of the city nearly all came from elsewhere. The old population, that built it's celebrated architecture, were mostly foreign born and mostly Catholic, Italians, Irish, Germans, French, and "Hispanic". Out in the Valley the white people were the same - Italians, Germans, Armenians, Slovenians, a whole stew of European immigrants in greater numbers than the Anglo-Scots-Irish. This entire region never had the population of an ethnic nation state.
If you want to get into the populations of several other states, even as of early last century, you will find the same thing.
The idea of an ethnic nation state in the US as you define it is an impossibility. Huge portions of the US won't fit your vision; I find it hard to think of any part which could. It's nearly as absurd a venture as black nationalism.

Blogger Aeoli Pera February 28, 2016 1:03 PM  

What really matters is that I was an American in my heart. I just had to get here and become one in truth. (And that, by itself, is an American attitude.)

Indeed, it's like Jesus said to the Samaritan woman, that we would one day worship America not in a particular location, but in spirit and in truth. At least I'm pretty sure he was talking about America, who has the time to check these things?

OpenID sigbouncer February 28, 2016 1:04 PM  

"And third, no offense, you re just a messenger boy, sent by greengrocers."

She's not quite there yet. A true American would know to replace "no offense" to "with all due respect"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Af-Id_fuXFA

Blogger buwaya puti February 28, 2016 1:10 PM  

Ethnic conflict in the US is almost entirely around one single minority, African Americans, and they are as native as anyone. The breakup, should it happen, will be driven largely by very ancient problems, not modern ones.

Blogger Aeoli Pera February 28, 2016 1:12 PM  

sigbouncer wrote:"And third, no offense, you re just a messenger boy, sent by greengrocers."

She's not quite there yet. A true American would know to replace "no offense" to "with all due respect"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Af-Id_fuXFA


http://lnxwebs38.cpt.wa.co.za/~inother1/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Screen-Shot-2013-03-12-at-5.51.29-AM.png

http://comics.wata.fi/dilbert/dilbert-28-10-1997.gif

Blogger buwaya puti February 28, 2016 1:15 PM  

In Asia, Indonesia, Malaysia, Burma, Singapore, the Philippines, India, Ceylon, etc. are multi ethnic. Every one has tried some of the policies your lot has in mind, with the intention of benefiting some group of "natives" vis a vis some other people.

Blogger Elocutioner February 28, 2016 1:16 PM  

A "messenger boy sent by greengrocers?" Huh. It must lose something in translation.

Blogger Aeoli Pera February 28, 2016 1:16 PM  

I'm obviously a savage at heart, but the tribes keep refusing to give me my cut of the casino profits just because "you're not actually Native American dude".

Blogger Aeoli Pera February 28, 2016 1:22 PM  

Perhaps. But that is not America. That is the alien collective which is in the process of devouring the genuine American nation, staking claim to its property, and assuming its identity.

After taking the land, it's traditional to claim the cultural accomplishments of the displaced nation as well.

Blogger bob k. mando February 28, 2016 1:22 PM  

@SarahAHoyt Vox Day is a fucking fascist... I will punch the guy in his nazi face if I ever find him!


threatening physical violence against those who hold political opinions contrary to your own?

well, it's certain that SOMEONE here is a fascist.

that's the hilarious thing about all of you fucking morons waggling your fingers at us for not being 'genteel'.

Sarah started all of this and keeps escalating all of this and is the one with no respect for the Free Speech rights of others.

she might FEEL like she's an American, but she's observably a totalitarian.

Blogger Escoffier February 28, 2016 1:23 PM  

buwaya puti wrote:To continue -

I reside in San Francisco. My wife is a native of the city. The details of local history are interesting. One that jumps out is just how "foreign" San Francisco always was. This place, and its hinterland, was never a single culture. You can walk in the churchyard of Mission Dolores, the core and root of the town, and the headstones carry the names of the modern streets. And these are Spanish. The great men of the city nearly all came from elsewhere. The old population, that built it's celebrated architecture, were mostly foreign born and mostly Catholic, Italians, Irish, Germans, French, and "Hispanic". Out in the Valley the white people were the same - Italians, Germans, Armenians, Slovenians, a whole stew of European immigrants in greater numbers than the Anglo-Scots-Irish. This entire region never had the population of an ethnic nation state.

If you want to get into the populations of several other states, even as of early last century, you will find the same thing.

The idea of an ethnic nation state in the US as you define it is an impossibility. Huge portions of the US won't fit your vision; I find it hard to think of any part which could. It's nearly as absurd a venture as black nationalism.


Yes and San Fran is arguably one of the least American cities in all of America which simply highlights how profoundly YOU DON'T GET IT! And most likely never will.

But please continue asplainin' to us rubes just how awesome multi-culturalism is, I for one just can't get enough of it.

Blogger Salt February 28, 2016 1:29 PM  

bob k. mando wrote:that's the hilarious thing about all of you fucking morons waggling your fingers at us for not being 'genteel'.

They're coming out, these newly quaffed Americans. With no disrespect to people who adopt, they ain't blood.

Anonymous Jack Amok February 28, 2016 1:36 PM  

That's fine. One could even say that I am similar in the other direction. The difference is that unlike me, she actively provides intellectual and political cover for the other sort of immigrant and is attempting to hold the gates open for all sorts of immigrants.


I do believe there are people of other ethnicities who have the right genetic makeup to think and act like Americans, but they are a small percent of their cohort. But far more significantly, and even smaller percent has the ability to turn their backs on people who look like them in favor of people who think like them.

Sarah may have the right genetics to think like an American, but she's unable to argue in favor of restricting immigration. When push comes to shove, she can't line up with the rest of us because - 'born American' or not - she still has allegiance to others.

I'd be really, really glad to welcome a whole bunch of responsible, liberty-loving people to my country, if only they'd stop stabbing me in the back in favor of their ethnic cohorts every time there's a dispute.

Blogger buwaya puti February 28, 2016 1:36 PM  

To continue - perhaps my point re San Francisco didn't come across - San Francisco is not unique. The ethnic history of all of California is similar. The ethnic history of several other states is similar. The US cannot be defined, as a whole, as a nation-state, because it never was. Some states in the early days were "pure" more or less, but if the ideal condition never existed over most of the existence of the US?
Consider also that California was, pre liberal destruction, truly the Golden State, the leading edge of material, technological progress. This with a mongrel population. And it was, in its mongrel non-Anglo heyday, a conservative Republican state. And it has been forgotten, but San Francisco in its great days also was a Republican, conservative city.
There are good reasons to despise California and San Francisco now, but not then.

Blogger Elocutioner February 28, 2016 1:37 PM  

So we've gone from "us moderates are good and those extremists are irrational and dangerous" to "the extremists disagree with me so they're fascists and I'll punch them in the face for not accepting me as one of their own!" Alrighty then.

Blogger VD February 28, 2016 1:37 PM  

The idea of an ethnic nation state in the US as you define it is an impossibility. Huge portions of the US won't fit your vision; I find it hard to think of any part which could. It's nearly as absurd a venture as black nationalism.

And yet, China is 97 percent Han. You not only don't understand America, you don't understand history or that homogeneous nations come out of heterogeneous ones.

You can't see the truth because, like Sarah, it frightens you too much.

Blogger Ian Miguel Martin February 28, 2016 1:40 PM  

Mulatto Midwesterner. European and African ancestors in the U.S. for many generations. I cope better than most NAMs, even to the extent of embracing libertarian ideals. Still, at some level, I know I’ll always be a stranger in a strange land.

Visit the Dominican Republic as an adult. Surrounded by dead-broke, lunatic, anti-black, reactionary socialist mulattos.

Welcome home!`

I’ll never be a Dominican, but I have come to believe that race trumps proposition. Yo soy un Quisqueyaboo!

Blogger VD February 28, 2016 1:41 PM  

But far more significantly, an even smaller percent has the ability to turn their backs on people who look like them in favor of people who think like them.

Bingo. They always want to make an exception for Dear Aunt Cho or Poor Uncle Pepe and his three idiot sons.

There are few bloggers who are observably less American than Sarah. She writes incessantly about Portugal. She's like the Californian who moves to Arizona, then talks all the time about how they did things back there.

Blogger SteelPalm February 28, 2016 1:42 PM  

Haha, I'm quite fine being called an "Ameriboo", in point of fact. Honestly, I never understood why people get offended by Vox's well-reasoned views, whether they agreed or not.

At present, there is no risk of (legal) first-generation immigrants being deported, so why the palpitations?

Blogger VD February 28, 2016 1:44 PM  

Still, at some level, I know I’ll always be a stranger in a strange land.

Ironically, that's the key to successful integration. I know I don't belong here. So I make damn sure that I am a VALUED stranger in a strange land. And I never talk about "how we did it back in America" unless specifically asked.

I certainly wouldn't dream of telling the natives who is fit or unfit to rule them.

Blogger James Dixon February 28, 2016 1:45 PM  

Aw, Sarah doesn't seem to want me there anymore. When I all did was point out that the CSA wouldn't agree that we weren't a nation "that the United States is not one of those nations formed by forcing other countries together into a whole", and made this further comment concerning her comment about being instructed by Vox: "And yet you seem to feel it necessary to instruct us on who is fit to be our nominee for President. And yes, that is how it comes across, whether you intend it or not."

But yeah, Vox is the Nazi and Fascist. Right.

Blogger Skylark Thibedeau February 28, 2016 1:46 PM  

I do recognize that many places in Asia are multi ethnic and that all of those places have gone through the Sarajevo Shuffle from time to time. India and Pakistan have nukes now so it gets interesting.

Blogger SciVo February 28, 2016 1:47 PM  

I believe "weebo" is Japanglish for weeaboo.

Anonymous VFM #6306 February 28, 2016 1:47 PM  

Moderate Fudd: "I have killed the fascist...wif Albert Speer and magic thinking!"

Anonymous Jack Amok February 28, 2016 1:50 PM  

Yes. The Union relied heavily on newly-arrived immigrants. Look up "Civil War draft riots".

I think there was more of a cultural divide than an ethnic one, at least in the leadership. The Union did rely on a lot of immigrant draftees, but the leadership was largely from the same ethnic stock as the leadership of the South. Perhaps there was a little more Dutch and German in the north, but mass immigration (mostly to the north) of non-anglos was relatively new by the time the Civil War broke out, and the tensions that led to it had been building for decades anyway.

But what I really find interesting is the change in the north after the Civil War, when the impact of the waves of Irish, Polish and Italian immigrants could really be felt. In the Founder's time, Yankees were essentially small-government totalitarians. They wanted to run their towns as they saw fit with no interference from outsiders, but inside the town everyone better do as they were told. By the time FDR came along (after those waves of immigrants had been absorbed mostly into Yankeedom), they were the biggest big government advocates around.

Did they change their minds, or did they change their people?

Blogger Skylark Thibedeau February 28, 2016 1:51 PM  

In Asia it's the successful minority Chinese who face the Nationalist Pogrom when the native economy goes South.

Blogger the bandit February 28, 2016 1:53 PM  

Conan the Cimmerian wrote:Would Texiboo be the equivalent in regards to Texas instead of America?

Are you asking in reference to yourself or other people? I've never met anyone who would qualify. Everybody who moves here promptly starts trying to "help" Texas become more like the rest of the nation.

Blogger Dexter February 28, 2016 1:54 PM  

As Georgie Anne Geyer pointed out in Americans No More, it was Lincoln who changed the definition of American citizenship to belief in a "proposition."

And those who do not believe in the proposition will be slaughtered by the thousands, their homes and farms burned, their property confiscated...


Taking slaves out of the equation, did the civil war have an ethnic component?

Yes. The Union relied heavily on newly-arrived immigrants. Look up "Civil War draft riots".


Then as now the elite used immigrants as cannon fodder to subdue their enemies.

Blogger Salt February 28, 2016 1:55 PM  

Do I detect a certain odor from a commenter at Sarah's?

If your idea of What Is An American is based on both the “proper” race and “how long your ancestors were American”, then you fit into the racist category of “different”.

Blogger Weouro February 28, 2016 1:55 PM  

The Norse - Vikings/Scandinavians - were also mingled in England. One group of Norse settled in France and became the Normans.

I see you're right about the Normans, but Scandinavian-Americans are still way more coherent as a group than German- or French-Americans. Unless Cajuns in Louisiana swamps count as French-Americans. Turtleman is probably the icon of a French-American.

"no, the 'absence' of German-Americans is due to two things. WW1 and WW2"

That's a good point. When I think about it my "German-American" half of the family does have German traditions but we never did and still don't mention them publicly for the most part.

Blogger buwaya puti February 28, 2016 1:57 PM  

China is "Han" because of 3000 years of bloody processing through an imperial Cuisinart.
I will match history with you if you like. The first lesson of studying history though is the danger of selecting the lessons you want to draw.
The US had its own Cuisinart, a bit less bloody, and as long as the population was European it worked extremely well. The "white" people in the West Coast at least are not defined by origins, being almost completely deracinated. That is the Chinese outcome. Out here at the cutting edge of immigration I find the process continuing at an intense rate, this time with Asians and Hispanics. Intermarriage and interbreeding is making mongrels of everyone. Our kids are Spanish-Mexican-Filipino-English/Welsh. And that is not a particularly mixed ancestry.
The big, outstanding exception are African Americans, that is the one group that simply does not assimilate; your ethnic argument just does not address this.
Anyway, I understand your position, though I find it romantic and unrealistic.

Blogger Skylark Thibedeau February 28, 2016 1:59 PM  

Jack there were Conscription Agents at the docks in the North impressing newly arrived immigrants into the army. Especially in late 1864 when Grant was fighting the War of Attrition to bleed Lee dry.

Blogger James Dixon February 28, 2016 2:00 PM  

> That's a good point. When I think about it my "German-American" half of the family does have German traditions but we never did and still don't mention them publicly for the most part.

Ask yourself why the town of Keyser, WV is spelled the way it is and what the original spelling likely was. :)

Anonymous Baseball Savant February 28, 2016 2:00 PM  

In honor of the NFL combine I bench pressed 225lbs on the incline bench for 52 reps. I never seem to get into fights either.

Blogger Skylark Thibedeau February 28, 2016 2:01 PM  

@120 If the French had stayed in Louisiana where they belong, the U.S. could have skipped both World Wars.

Anonymous Brick Hardslab February 28, 2016 2:07 PM  

This keeps getting better. The moderates want to punch the rest of us in the face to shut us up and foreigners keep telling us how they know how to run America better. One keeps trying to show us how we're wrong over and over again.

Really believe us when we say. We don't care. We don't want your advice and hopefully we can send you and all your kind home. Really. Go Home. America is too full and getting fuller every day.

Every word you write, every time you say, 'you Americans don't get it', every time one of you tells us it's inevitable and we should lay back and enjoy it we think more about walls and trebuchets to send you across the border. And we really don't care if you have a net to catch you.

Anonymous Jack Amok February 28, 2016 2:09 PM  

She's like the Californian who moves to Arizona, then talks all the time about how they did things back there.

Hey, I never made fun of Zonies when I lived there.

But since you mention California, it's a perfect example of a paradise ruined by immigration. From Mexico, yes, but before that from New York, New Jersey and rust belt hell holes. 30 years ago, two of the most popular bumper stickers in San Diego were:

"I (heart) NY" and "(heart) NY? Take I-8 East)"

They moved in and stole the state. Fifty years ago, CA was a right-wing state, but like the US as a whole, it was prosperous and drew all the failures from everywhere else looking to make it rich. They brought the ideas with them that made it so hard to succeed in the places they came from.

California was californicated by easterners long before it californicated any other states. And it only took two generations of mass immigration to the state to destroy it. We couldn't stop the easterners from coming in, all we could do was make them leave their fresh fruit at the border. Sadly, that wasn't enough.

Blogger tz February 28, 2016 2:10 PM  

The most fundamental flaw, unless Sarah is claiming to be something like Alia out of Dune is that she could not have been born "American" even as propositional as she didn't reach the age of reason, nor maturity at birth.

It is one thing to wake up and find you are an alien in your own homeland, it is another to sever ties of culture and blood to the point of condemning and rejecting them. A positive "I love America" cannot override and specifically contradicts "But I wish my family were here".

She notes the rejection of a title of nobility. Yet we accept dual citizenship (see Cruz) - we should not. We should only accept one passport. Even Canada, but the Jews would need to decide if they are citizens of Israel (and wish to go there and live in that socialist, secularist country), or if they are citizens of America.

Am I American? Relatives of the Founding Fathers, or even those who came in on the Mayflower live in the UK and other parts of the shadow of the British empire. Are they Americans because of consanguinity even though they are the worst socialists? What about the Anglican church or do we just have to burn enough of the heretic hierarchy (see Victoria)? My Grandparents came here in the early 1900s and I have no specific allegiance to there (but it is one of the European countries that is far more skeptical today and is not letting in refugees). I know far more about English history. I moved to an enclave that believes in the Constitution.

Anonymous A.B. Prosper February 28, 2016 2:12 PM  

Sara is a Liberal who could actually learn to be a Conservative since unlike most of them she wants to live like a sane person.

However she as noted has an inability to understand customs, not caused by a defective amygdala but just being different. A mutant strain

Despite that being basically a Conservative person she still wants a home base if only one for outcasts.

So she latches onto the absurd proposition nation idea to create that base.

I can't hold it against her, I like the woman its just the idea is inherently stupid and cannot be sustained,

Blogger Rusty Fife February 28, 2016 2:13 PM  

Escoffier wrote:Yes and San Fran is arguably one of the least American cities in all of America which simply highlights how profoundly YOU DON'T GET IT! And most likely never will.

Santa Fe was settled before plymouth. Westerners are outside your ken.

Blogger James Dixon February 28, 2016 2:13 PM  

>> I will punch the guy in his nazi face if I ever find him!

> It's funny to think how many people have said something like that. Yet for some reason, in person everyone tends to back down. I wonder if 29 years of weightlifting might have anything to do with that?

You know, having had time to think about it, I wouldn't put it past Sarah to try it. Her reaction when you retaliated would be a wonder to behold.

Blogger James Dixon February 28, 2016 2:18 PM  

> ...I like the woman...

Most of us here probably do. But it'd be nice if she'd listen to differing opinions on occasion instead of trying to shut them down.

But when you can't even make a reasonable disagreement with a point someone else made or point out that she's coming across as lecturing rather than just giving an opinion, it's probably a lost cause.

Anonymous Scintan February 28, 2016 2:19 PM  

The first lesson of studying history though is the danger of selecting the lessons you want to draw.

Well, no, actually. The first lesson of studying history is the danger of not getting the history correct.

Blogger Salt February 28, 2016 2:22 PM  

¡Sarah! That's the c[__]servative Americanism she advocates.

Blogger Rusty Fife February 28, 2016 2:23 PM  

Jack Amok wrote:But since you mention California, it's a perfect example of a paradise ruined by immigration. From Mexico, yes, but before that from New York, New Jersey and rust belt hell holes.

Don't forget Okies. Fleeing from one failed state after another.

OpenID sigbouncer February 28, 2016 2:23 PM  

"In honor of the NFL combine I bench pressed 225lbs on the incline bench for 52 reps. I never seem to get into fights either."

Those who are willing to fight others generally has more to do with their environment, experience and upbringing. Ones body language and eye contact is often more a deterrent than size. Which isn't to say weight lifting can't influence ones body language positively.

But a true fighter won't back down due to size.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEp01vrt8bE

Anonymous Cassie February 28, 2016 2:30 PM  

Sarah Hoyt was born an Odd. She didn't fit in to her society, and desired to come to America, and actually made the effort to assimilate (which she has written about before as being a painful process). What she doesn't realize is that the pain of assimilation is PROOF that she was not born American. If you are born American, you do not need to assimilate to America. Duh.

Many good points brought up about her inability to comprehend this issue. One thing I haven't seen pointed out is that even when she came to America determined to assimilate - she came from a socialist country and promptly embarked on one of the most socialist career paths possible in America - mainstream publishing. So she spent even more time after arriving in America marinating in a community full of Marxist socialists.

This background gives her excellent insight into socialists, but it also means that she really, really, really needs to not presume to lecture people who were NOT brought up socialist and did NOT choose to work in a freaking socialist warren as adults on what "America" really is.

Blogger tz February 28, 2016 2:33 PM  

But perhaps another question is raised. James, Westley Rawles book "The Promised Land" posits a Libertarian (almost Anarcho-) in a disputed area of Africa in the near future. It's serialized, but brings up the question, can a nation that is culturally, morally, ideologically homogeneous yet racially, genetically heterogeneous exist and succeed for any length of time?

The problem it brings up is merely if you insist on deep cultural/ideological homogeneity, you are by definition going to get very different numbers of people of different ancestry, and if you go Constitutional or even Anarcho-Libertarian, you won't get many who are non-white. Even Asians who might be entrepreneurial aren't big on English Common Law. It won't be Sharia, but it will be just as alien. Even those who prefer Roman law are progressives - Judged by expert judges instead of a jury of your peers.

How can you have a "jury of your peers", when the people chosen to decide your fate will in no way be your peers?

You can't.

I think this is similar to Women's suffrage. Yes, there are women who are the equal of men, but they are not the majority. Let them vote and the majority of women and minority of men will destroy the culture. Yet it is not merely genetics - Wisconsin, Ohio, Michigan, Indiana and such were not known to be enclaves of aliens, and they were on the North's side. Also note you could view that slavery was a way of pulling in a large number of invaders, which is nice if they are slaves, but what happens after abolition - I think it was universal that they needed to be returned, not stay before the actual war. The south found them useful as labor and the 3/5th boost to their Congress, but were they not even more alien than their Southern masters? Did not the North look at the South as having a large number of the equivalent of our "illegal immigrants" - call them "noncitizens" - within the territory of the USA? How many free slaves "assimilated" even before the war? One might ask Canada at the underground railheads. I don't know the answers.

I think it will sort itself out sooner than later - and it won't be pretty (especially with the dependence in the big cities of technology - wait until the EBT/SNAP cards stop working because the financial or communication system has broken down - and that would tend to affect things like food deliveries too if the trucks and truckers can't pay or be paid.

A final though which might help clarify: If you were accused and had to select a jury of your peers, would you select the members of the Ilk and VFMs who are recent immigrants or not even citizens of the USA, or would you like to be judged by SJW liberal college professors who all descend (pun intended) from Englishmen colonists who were in the USA and the families who were constant citizens?

(If the whites in college wish to commit what amounts to a form of suicide, I wish they wouldn't keep trying to drag me along into their death spiral).

Blogger buwaya puti February 28, 2016 2:38 PM  

California being ruined by immigrants is plausible. But note that it was created by non-American immigrants in the first place. Those Republican voting church-going Californians of 1960 were disproportionately 1st-3rd generation Catholic ethnics.
As an example - the single event that switched San Francisco into a "liberal" city was not the "summer of love", but the mayoral election of 1975. On one side was the " old" population of white Catholic ethnics, reinforced by the then-solidly Republican Asians (they were). They were backing Barbagelata, Italian. On the other side were the liberal white newcomers, the blacks, etc. Their candidate was Moscone, another Italian. The margin of victory was electoral fraud perpetrated by Jim Jones, a thoroughly "American" fellow, who used his numerous nearly-all-black congregation as "flying voters".
This is the reality of the ethno-nationalist fights in the US, nearly everything is in this example.
If anyone is looking for historical lessons, here they are. US political-cultural problems aren't ethnic as such. Ethnic issues are used by factions of the white power structure to fight each other, ethnic "sides" can switch, and the most important ethnic group are black people, because they are persistently unassimilable and vote as an unbreakable block.

Blogger The Hammer February 28, 2016 2:45 PM  

@91 and @121. Wrong. See the descriptions of Left Coastians and Far Westerners at the 2nd link.

http://colinwoodard.blogspot.com/2012/04/presenting-slighty-revised-american.html

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/novemberdecember_2011/features/a_geography_lesson_for_the_tea032846.php?page=all

Anonymous The other robot February 28, 2016 2:50 PM  

Meanwhile, diversity still kills.

That must be a twofer!

And, it was suspicious that Drudge did not link to any reports with pics yesterday.

Blogger Scott6584 February 28, 2016 2:52 PM  

Now you've hit the nail on the head. Too many simply accept the "history" taught to them without going back and actually reading what the founders believed.

I suggest also studying the Great Awakening on the 1740's, without which I don't believe the colonies would have been able to unite against Britain. That spiritual revival a generation prior to the Revolutionary War was a key factor in preparing the people to become their own nation, and also stands in stark contrast to the morality, if you can call it that, of the French Revolution in 1789.

Blogger buwaya puti February 28, 2016 3:01 PM  

And the single matter that most weakened the SF conservative ethnic consensus, and which turned SF "liberal" was a court order that forced school desegregation on the city, which created "white flight" into the suburbs. This was several years before the famous Boston cases. Johnson vs SFUSD forced a consent decree on the school district against its wishes.
Again, the ethnic issue here was African Americans, pure and simple. Chase any of these conflicts back and every one has the same root cause. The judges in Johnson vs SFUSD were Anglo BTW. And the Supreme Court (the Burger Court) that upheld Johnson, in Guey Hung Lee vs Johnson, were also mostly Anglo. Note that Asians opposed desegregation, and still do.

Blogger buwaya puti February 28, 2016 3:07 PM  

And the single matter that most weakened the SF conservative ethnic consensus, and which turned SF "liberal" was a court order that forced school desegregation on the city, which created "white flight" into the suburbs. This was several years before the famous Boston cases. Johnson vs SFUSD forced a consent decree on the school district against its wishes.
Again, the ethnic issue here was African Americans, pure and simple. Chase any of these conflicts back and every one has the same root cause. The judges in Johnson vs SFUSD were Anglo BTW. And the Supreme Court (the Burger Court) that upheld Johnson, in Guey Hung Lee vs Johnson, were also mostly Anglo. Note that Asians opposed desegregation, and still do.

Blogger ray February 28, 2016 3:07 PM  

"Whether we were born elsewhere or here, Americans — those of us who are proud of the name — are rebels, revolutionaries, something new under the sun: a people who believe people should be equal in their right to life, the right to liberty, the right to pursue their happiness undisturbed by either inimical neighbors or oppressive “betters.”"


Equality and Egalite are French Enlightenment abstractions designed to finish-off the last of the Church, and to rationalize the totalitarian impulses and actions of The Mob . . . people like Sarah Hoyt.

Equality is a satanic concept and provides, in practice, the exact opposite of equity and fairness. Without 'equaity' people like Sarah Hoyt don't become successful, much less famous. They become instead what they merit, which isn't much. They damn well know it, too, which is why they're so full of vitriol -- afraid of losing their vast, unearned privileges. Which they are going to lose, anyway.

Equality, like Women's 'liberation', permits Sarah and her fellow traitors to crush their betters -- yes, they DO have betters, and boy do they HATE HATE that -- and take over nations under cover of helping the downtrodden and oppressed'. That'd Themselves and their friends, in case you've been asleep the past half-century.

Think you have Equality? Sistahood Sarah threatens to punch a mere male, and will not be punished if she does. Try punching Little Miss Virtue Signal and see what happens.

Liars and cowards selling their popular, self-serving lies, while patting themselves on the back for being Brave Rebels who are standing up to The Evil (non-existent) Patriarchy.

Blogger JimR February 28, 2016 3:08 PM  

It appears that the "punch vox" comment has been black holed there. No note, just gone.

Blogger Noah B February 28, 2016 3:12 PM  

@Jack Amok

"Did they change their minds, or did they change their people?"

Largely a result of improved communications technology. Radio in particular made the nation seem smaller; one feels a closer connection with a president whose voice he regularly hears on the radio than with one whose name he has only seen in print, making it easier to trust him with power. And now, internet makes it easy for immigrants to stay immersed in their own cultures rather than assimilating.

@Vox/Ilk

"Like every other multi-ethnic empire in history, the USA is held together by force and nothing more than force."

Our rulers have created a complex web of economic interdependency that no one knows how to unwind. This, I believe, is now the predominant means of control in most parts of the world, however this could be seen as nothing more than the means by which force is applied by governments against individuals.

Blogger ray February 28, 2016 3:24 PM  

"Hoyt: "And second, the record of nations by blood is goox? Are you an infant? And third, no offense, you re just a messenger boy, sent by greengrocers.""


The line is stolen (and mangled) from 'Apocalypse Now'. Not only does literary giant Sarah not understand the dialogue context, she doesn't understand who Kurtz was identifying as the enemy. That's pretty convenient too!

Fortunately The Sarahs are in charge of our governments, courts, police, media, and literary programs. So her ignorance can be spread to others. Now that's Equality!

So ... another fail, from our Betters, who were set over us in every part of society to teach us things we understood decades ago, but they still don't get.

But hey, I'm sure that building a Wall will heal America! :O)


Blogger SciVo February 28, 2016 3:30 PM  

White Knight Leo #0368 wrote:In addition to eliminating hundreds of Indian nations (which is handwaved aside because Cherokee)

I'm not sure this counts, since those Indian nations did not actually become part of America in any meaningful way.


That's the point. You're staring right through it. The U.S. is a perfect example of "those nations formed by forcing other countries together into a whole," which traditionally result in ethnic cleansing.

Now -- on the same non-magical dirt -- Mexicans are the settlers, and Americans are the natives being displaced. Knowing how that process generally ends, we should obviously do our best to stop it.

Anonymous SDH February 28, 2016 3:32 PM  

Jack, identify as english-canadian-american. It sounds better than closet-american.

Naw, he's just Canadian, we all feel like that.

Blogger buwaya puti February 28, 2016 3:33 PM  

Fascism is indefinable. It's so varied and in different places so full of parochial issues that it cannot be usefully defined. One way or another pretty much anyone can be called a fascist. I see no way of squaring your lot with a regime that sang -
Faccetta nera, bel'abissina

Blogger Noah B February 28, 2016 3:33 PM  

Nations that lose wars often suffer precipitous declines, but nothing compared to those that completely fail to defend themselves when necessary. One can respect a defeated enemy, but it is much more difficult to respect those who don't value their own lives enough to defend them.

Blogger buwaya puti February 28, 2016 3:35 PM  

Fascism is indefinable. It's so varied and in different places so full of parochial issues that it cannot be usefully defined. One way or another pretty much anyone can be called a fascist. I see no way of squaring your lot with a regime that sang -
Faccetta nera, bel'abissina

Anonymous MendoScot February 28, 2016 3:41 PM  

For those who want the background on the "errand boy sent by greengrocers" quip.

Of course, the original was the plot of Heart of Darkness. Sarah's evocation is just baffling. Perhaps because she doesn't know or understand the source.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler February 28, 2016 3:51 PM  

Vox, America is a schizophrenic country.

You don't discuss the Masonic character of this country?

What do you think "Novus Ordo" stands for on the seal?

What does Masonry teach? I can produce a great quote from John Jay to add to your list but all those quotes doesn't cancel out that America was the first Masonic country! That there is a core of elites, from the founding, that sought to implement those Masonic ideals in this country--a raceless country! There are quotes from Washington and Jefferson that have Masonic ideas.

Just as many want to squeeze America into a Christian nation mold like David Barton wants to do, you are in the same mission as David Barton, to squeeze the "nation" into America.

America is a Schizophrenic country--Christian (Gnostic) populace, Masonic elites, Atheist propaganda.

You are partly right, but there was also OTHER influences in the way this country was built. It is Schizoid.

Anonymous BGKB February 28, 2016 4:03 PM  

Yes, Mogadishu can surely be American, if only. Have you been to Chicago?

Yes and San Fran is arguably one of the least American cities in all of America which simply highlights how profoundly YOU DON'T GET IT

It is legal to have sex and pee on the streets but blacks are only 5% of the pop but the vast majority of criminals. Even the controlled environment ruled by leftist c#cksucking teachers SF public schools are 8% black with 71% of arrests being black.

Sara is a Liberal who could actually learn to be a Conservative since unlike

If you where a liberal who discovered conservative guys are more many and earned more my love the Hugo award winning tale of a gold digger.

Blogger Paul, Dammit! February 28, 2016 4:06 PM  

I'm still parsing my way through the comments- I grew up in the middle of the Pilgrims summer colony next to Plymouth MA, and schooled with the dbag children of the Brahmins; this whole things sounds like the Mayflower Material test. The irony, of course, being that Indian ancestry would certainly exclude Vox just as much as Irish ancestry did to me with the Exeter alums.
I'm no more or less American for having Irish DNA than Vox is for having the DNA of a bunch of exiles who wandered off Siberia earlier. At some point, worshipping the founding fathers' every printed word smacks of cant, but where does one draw the line? These are the same men who gave us the Constitution, after all. None of the material presented here has swayed me yet.

Blogger Sheila4g February 28, 2016 4:09 PM  

@46 1337 Kestrel: Excellent point re two Americas, the posterity of the Founders and the roughly 1860 - 1965 "melting pot."

I seem to recall seeing somewhere that the first America was larger than the 2nd, re today's White population. True or false? My husband just informed me that the pre-1865 White population was about 40 million. Has anyone with far better math skills than I worked out a comparison including predicted descendants?

Vox, given your apparent agreement with the above (@48), do you have a suggestion for what to call those from the 2nd America? I'm referring specifically to 3-6th generation Americans who are not descended from the bloodlines of the settlers, but who are White, Christian, and more or unfortunately less (within a large spectrum) assimilated. When and how does one of this group cease to be an adopted American, and since genetically he can never be a native, what would/should he be called?

Blogger SciVo February 28, 2016 4:11 PM  

the bandit wrote:Conan the Cimmerian wrote:Would Texiboo be the equivalent in regards to Texas instead of America?

Are you asking in reference to yourself or other people? I've never met anyone who would qualify. Everybody who moves here promptly starts trying to "help" Texas become more like the rest of the nation.


What, you've never seen a Yankee buy cowboy boots (and a buckle and a hat), pick up line dancing, and start saying "ya'll" every other sentence? I knew more than one Texaboo in college, including a Korean Northerner (from the northern U.S., not North Korea).

Blogger Rusty Fife February 28, 2016 4:13 PM  

buwaya puti wrote:Again, the ethnic issue here was African Americans, pure and simple. Chase any of these conflicts back and every one has the same root cause

Not cause, weapon.

Blogger Were-Puppy February 28, 2016 4:47 PM  

@18 Scott6584

If we must have some legal immigration, then I want those who think like Hoyt over those who don't.
---

On this we agree. As long as we have legal immigration.

Blogger Doc Rampage February 28, 2016 4:47 PM  

Vox, the very quotes in your post prove that your claim is wrong. The people in those quotes were fine with the idea that anyone who was born in America was an American. Their concern about the German immigrants, in those quotes, at least, was not that some icky people of another race were diluting their pure English blood lines; the concern was about ideology. Almost like they thought it was the ideology which would make the true Americans.

As soon as the new America started naturalizing citizens, they took the position that being American was not a matter of race. This wasn't a new idea that the immigrants brought in; it was built into the Constitution and the law.

In the Northeast, the people of English origin often have more in common with their Italian neighbors than they do with Southerners, and in the South they have more in common with their Cajun neighbors than they do with Northerners. In the Midwest, they have more in common with their German neighbors than they do with Californians, and the Californians of English ancestry often have more in common with their Chinese neighbors than they do with Midwesterners.

Maybe you have been out of the country too long to see how things are. Given how tiny the number of nationalists actually is in the US, I can pretty much guarantee you that Sarah Hoyt's neighbors of English descent would rather have her for a neighbor than any nationalist.

Blogger Were-Puppy February 28, 2016 4:51 PM  

@24 Gyclone Bob
She was born a poor black child.
---

Heh heh! And for those of us who aren't, we can still be trans-black :P

Blogger Were-Puppy February 28, 2016 4:55 PM  

@35 Salt

Agreed. But Sarah needs to know her place, that she is American by law only. I welcome her. But she'd do best not to lecture on what it is to be American. She's simply not qualified.
---

This reminds me of the whole natural born citizen issue.
I guess it is hard for these new citizens to understand that many of us have roots going WAY back hundreds of years here. And we don't want that posterity to be tossed out the window because new entrants think it should be.

Anonymous Jack Amok February 28, 2016 5:00 PM  

do you have a suggestion for what to call those from the 2nd America? I'm referring specifically to 3-6th generation Americans who are not descended from the bloodlines of the settlers, but who are White, Christian, and more or unfortunately less (within a large spectrum) assimilated

There's actually a pretty simple test, and Donald Trump is, shall we say, proctoring it.

Do you support slamming shut the border and deporting at least illegal immigrants, and possibly also the more obnoxious legal ones?

If yes, fine, you're sufficiently American because - and this is what I don't think Paul, Dammit understands - you're willing to take the side of Americans against immigrants.

As ugly as tribalism gets, the problem we have in America is that we've unilaterally decided to give up tribalism and the other tribes have taken advantage of us to rip us off. In the last two generations, they've been changing our own laws to promote tribalism for their benefit. By doing that, they're forcing the country into tribalism, and whether you like it or not, you're going to have to pick a side.

Are you with the natives or the invaders?

Blogger Were-Puppy February 28, 2016 5:00 PM  

@40 Escoffier

Guys I think you're missing the elephant in her comments. She 'says' she loves America but at the exact same time redefines America as something inimical to us and our posterity. Do you really support that? Please explain?
---

Well, when you put it that way, I have to reconsider.

Blogger Were-Puppy February 28, 2016 5:04 PM  

@49 1337kestrel

What possible purpose can be achieved by telling Sarah that her definition of American is wrong? I just don't see this action winning hearts and minds.
---

He wrote the book about this sort of thing.

Blogger Were-Puppy February 28, 2016 5:07 PM  

@54 Escoffier
Immigrants don't get to come into this country and presume to tell us what being an American is all about. Full stop, that simple.
---

+100

Blogger tz February 28, 2016 5:09 PM  

What possible purpose can be achieved by telling Sarah that her definition of American is wrong? I just don't see this action winning hearts and minds.

In order to win the mind from the cesspool of relativism or error, sometimes one must pierce the heart.

Sarah herself created the problem where one must choose between wounding her heart, or leaving the open wound in her mind open.

Blogger tz February 28, 2016 5:12 PM  

@154 What do you think "Novus Ordo" stands for on the seal?

This single sentence explains 99% of the liturgical abuses Catholics like me have had to suffer through. Much thanks.

Blogger Were-Puppy February 28, 2016 5:14 PM  

@46 1337kestrel

We need a term for the nation of the founders, and American kinda sorta works.
---

How about The Posterity.

Blogger Were-Puppy February 28, 2016 5:17 PM  

@78 Jack Aubrey

I was born and raised in Canada, of Canadian parents and English grandparents. I never felt at home in Canada, and always considered myself a "closet American." I emigrated to the USA 30 years ago and have been here ever since. I have been a US citizen for over 20 years; I love the USA and will never go back voluntarily. However it is clear to me that I am not, and never will be, truly American despite the relative similarity of the two countries.
---

Now if only Tundra Ted and Narco Lubio had such powers of self reflection.

Blogger Ezekiel February 28, 2016 5:26 PM  

@156, what a lot of big-tent, small-government types don't seem to get is the simple fact that the notion of "that government being best which governs least" is the invention of 18th century white, Anglo-Saxon and Scot-Irish Protestants (and Diests, which are just Protestants who've reformed themselves so thoroughly as to dispense with priests, laity, and God). It ain't an overwhelming consensus even with us, and it's taken generations for the other "white ethnics"/Ellis Island Set/"Subversive Papist Hordes" to even halfway grok it. Maybe it is possible to convince people from other parts of the world to get along peaceably AND not need a huge huge civic bureaucracy insisting on insect-like conformity for the masses AND not need a powerful leader or government to force them to behave AND not instantly fall into suicidal degeneracy AND still be able to defend their society from outside threats, but it seems odd to me that no one else in the world (except maybe the Swiss) does so.

(Theory: this is the real reason why the GOP does so abysmally-bad with non-whites. Blacks and Mestizos who might like Republicans for religious reasons and Asians who might like them for fiscal ones just can't get on board with all this "limited government" stuff. They might like the idea of EFFICIENT government, but telling them that the EPA or DEA is a threat to their liberty sounds like crazy-talk and they don't give a shit what Thomas Jefferson had to say about it. Full-blow fascism would appeal to these people more than quasi-libertarianism does.)

Blogger tz February 28, 2016 5:31 PM  

Too often we create our own microcosms of "The Matrix" - some pleasant falsehood that we live in instead of the real world where things work better - this might be pleasant or unpleasant (the SJWs complain about oppression, but that is also an illusion). In all cases it is false.

Then a Morpheus comes along proffering either a blue pill - stay happy and think whatever you want, but you know it is based on a falsehood, an illusion, a lie, or take the red pill which will hurt, terribly.


It is not just liberals, it is all of us. Often combat succeeds - be it the screeching of the SJWs or the dialectic of libertarians, or even the physical combativeness of a bully - but creates a Matrix where winning the combat is mistaken for winning in the real world.

I need to recount a scene from "The Great Divorce" by CS Lewis. It would be best to read the whole thing.

“Why, you’re hurting me now.”

“I never said it wouldn’t hurt you. I said it wouldn’t kill you.”

“Oh, I know. You think I’m a coward. But it isn’t that. Really it isn’t. I say! Let me run back by tonight’s bus and get an opinion from my own doctor. I’ll come again the first moment I can.”

“This moment contains all moments.”

“Why are you torturing me? You are jeering at me. How can I let you tear me to pieces? If you wanted to help me, why didn’t you kill the damned thing without asking me–before I knew? It would be all over by now if you had.”

“I cannot kill it against your will. It is impossible. Have I your permission?”

The Angel’s hands were almost closed on the Lizard, but not quite. Then the Lizard began chattering to the Ghost so loud that even I could hear what it was saying.

“Be careful,” it said. “He can do what he says. He can kill me. One fatal word from you and he will! Then you’ll be without me for ever and ever. It’s not natural. How could you live? You’d be only a sort of ghost, not a real man as you are now. He doesn’t understand. He’s only a cold, bloodless abstract thing. It may be natural for him, but it isn’t for us. Yes, yes. I know there are no real pleasures now, only dreams. But aren’t they better than nothing? And I’ll be so good. I admit I’ve sometimes gone too far in the past, but I promise I won’t do it again. I’ll give you nothing but really nice dreams–all sweet and fresh and almost innocent. You might say, quite innocent …. ”

“Have I your permission?” said the Angel to the Ghost.

“I know it will kill me.”

“It won’t. But supposing it did?”

“You’re right. It would be better to be dead than to live with this creature.”

“Then I may?”

“Damn and blast you! Go on can’t you? Get it over. Do what you like,” bellowed the Ghost: but ended, whimpering, “God help me. God help me.”

Next moment the Ghost gave a scream of agony such as I never heard on Earth. The Burning One closed his crimson grip on the reptile: twisted it, while it bit and writhed, and then flung it, broken backed, on the turf.

“Ow! That’s done for me,” gasped the Ghost, reeling backwards.


This is where Sarah finds hereself - Vox asking if she gives him permission to kill the red lizard - the weapon is the text here and is at the Lizard's throat.

Anonymous A.B. Prosper February 28, 2016 5:31 PM  

@136 Cassie, I don't think Sara can assimilate to anything really.

As an Odd, much like a Liberal she has no natural foundation anywhere its just that in her mind "concept" America was more suited to her than her village in Portugal

Its not really true though, we reactionaries and radicals are building to a far more specific formulation and even though she'd be fine in our conceptualization , even the idea of it make her uncomfortable.

Basically Sara is a sane "K" selected Leftist which is very rare divergent strain of humanity, H. Sapiens Libertarian or something.

Blogger SciVo February 28, 2016 5:32 PM  

Sheila4g wrote:Vox, given your apparent agreement with the above (@48), do you have a suggestion for what to call those from the 2nd America? I'm referring specifically to 3-6th generation Americans who are not descended from the bloodlines of the settlers, but who are White, Christian, and more or unfortunately less (within a large spectrum) assimilated. When and how does one of this group cease to be an adopted American, and since genetically he can never be a native, what would/should he be called?

I favor Anglo-American.

Blogger S1AL February 28, 2016 5:32 PM  

The irony of invoking Thomas "Go Bar Em" Jefferson as the ideal of limited government...

Blogger tz February 28, 2016 5:39 PM  

OT but more significant. Senator Sessions is at the Trump rally, and just endorsed him. The Cruz ship has just been torpedoed.

Blogger Paul, Dammit! February 28, 2016 5:55 PM  

SciVo wrote:Sheila4g wrote:Vox, given your apparent agreement with the above (@48), do you have a suggestion for what to call those from the 2nd America? I'm referring specifically to 3-6th generation Americans who are not descended from the bloodlines of the settlers, but who are White, Christian, and more or unfortunately less (within a large spectrum) assimilated. When and how does one of this group cease to be an adopted American, and since genetically he can never be a native, what would/should he be called?

I favor Anglo-American.


Where I grew up, the term is "Mayflower Material." It was a comforting but meaningless title to bolster the ego of the kids we used to throw rocks at, but stopped no rocks. Very much a European Participation Trophy title, and of equal value today.

Blogger Sheila4g February 28, 2016 5:59 PM  

@164 Jack Amok - This comment thread is not about me, obviously, but in the interests of courtesy, and since I'm not totally clear on whether your question is rhetorical or personal: As I believe I've made clear in many other comments here and elsewhere, I have categorically renounced all historical ties of blood and consider myself nothing more nor less than American. My 4th generation children have no conception of any identity other than White, Christian, Americans.

Blogger VD February 28, 2016 6:14 PM  

Vox, the very quotes in your post prove that your claim is wrong. The people in those quotes were fine with the idea that anyone who was born in America was an American.

Read them again. You're wrong. They anticipated a degree of immigration, yes. But a small amount that would be diluted by the native population. And they knew damn well that the other Europeans, forget Asians and Africans, could not assimilate their English ideology en masse.

And they were right. They didn't.

What is absurd is these Ameriboos talking as if we still live in America 1.0. We don't. This is America 3.2 and it's heading fast for 4.0.

OpenID luciussomesuch February 28, 2016 6:17 PM  

buwaya:The "white" people in the West Coast at least are not defined by origins, being almost completely deracinated. That is the Chinese outcome. Out here at the cutting edge of immigration I find the process continuing at an intense rate, this time with Asians and Hispanics."

Asian+Hispanic: isn't that how Filipinos began?

But seriously: the idea of a Han mating with a mestizo is disgusting. Your demotic deracination fetish is despicable.

Anonymous Wyrd February 28, 2016 6:21 PM  

...and start saying "ya'll" every other sentence?

Y'all.

Blogger Escoffier February 28, 2016 6:28 PM  

buwaya puti wrote:
The US had its own Cuisinart, a bit less bloody, and as long as the population was European it worked extremely well. The "white" people in the West Coast at least are not defined by origins, being almost completely deracinated. That is the Chinese outcome. Out here at the cutting edge of immigration I find the process continuing at an intense rate, this time with Asians and Hispanics. Intermarriage and interbreeding is making mongrels of everyone. Our kids are Spanish-Mexican-Filipino-English/Welsh. And that is not a particularly mixed ancestry.


Seems like deracination leads to genocide or what am I missing?

Blogger Were-Puppy February 28, 2016 6:31 PM  

@119 Salt
Do I detect a certain odor from a commenter at Sarah's?

If your idea of What Is An American is based on both the “proper” race and “how long your ancestors were American”, then you fit into the racist category of “different”.
---

Whoever said that is a subversive. They think they can cut in line ahead of all that were here before them? That's what is pissing off so many people. WHining about racism ROFLMAO - means they got nothing.

Blogger Escoffier February 28, 2016 6:32 PM  

Jack Amok wrote:do you have a suggestion for what to call those from the 2nd America? I'm referring specifically to 3-6th generation Americans who are not descended from the bloodlines of the settlers, but who are White, Christian, and more or unfortunately less (within a large spectrum) assimilated

There's actually a pretty simple test, and Donald Trump is, shall we say, proctoring it.

Do you support slamming shut the border and deporting at least illegal immigrants, and possibly also the more obnoxious legal ones?

If yes, fine, you're sufficiently American because - and this is what I don't think Paul, Dammit understands - you're willing to take the side of Americans against immigrants.

As ugly as tribalism gets, the problem we have in America is that we've unilaterally decided to give up tribalism and the other tribes have taken advantage of us to rip us off. In the last two generations, they've been changing our own laws to promote tribalism for their benefit. By doing that, they're forcing the country into tribalism, and whether you like it or not, you're going to have to pick a side.

Are you with the natives or the invaders?


This! At some point you have to choose. I think that is indeed the test.

Blogger buwaya puti February 28, 2016 6:41 PM  

No, Filipinos are Malayo-Polynesians, most of the ancestors seem to be of the general migration of Austronesian peoples from South China.
There are strains of other earlier and later populations. One strong strain is quite modern, of Han Chinese from South China, Guangdong and Fujian. Another quite small minority (mine) are European mestizos, mostly Spanish.
I find it hard to understand a distaste for mestizos - which is a general term for all mixed races in proper Spanish. I grew up in a mestizo society and have known every sort. Prettiest girl I ever knew was Russian-Spanish-Mongolian-Filipino. Mexican-Chinese works quite well.
BTW, "chinita" was Hispanosphere slang for "cutie" going back to the 19th century. Check out the lyrics of "La Paloma" the first ever international pop hit. And that song also mentions a Mexican girl - a "guachinanga".
The world is a messy and interesting place.

Blogger buwaya puti February 28, 2016 6:53 PM  

Deracination is the inevitable result of people moving around. Chinese traders show up in Indonesia, they find brides, and there you go. Spanish priests get horny out in some godforsaken Paraguayan village. US Volunteers in 1899 find time for leave in Bulacan province.
An entire caste of Anglo-Indians runs the Indian railways. Hundreds of thousands of US men marry Asian women, such as the "Tiger Mom" Amy Chua.
More and more and more as transportation improves.

Blogger Paul, Dammit! February 28, 2016 7:00 PM  

VD wrote:What is absurd is these Ameriboos talking as if we still live in America 1.0. We don't. This is America 3.2 and it's heading fast for 4.0.

Vox, who is this 'we' you refer to? Your meat isn't in the seat here. You're not actually part of the 'we' living here, and that of course has meaning, too.
Speaking personally, I find it hard to listen to out-group members opine on America, especially when they're not wrong.

Blogger S1AL February 28, 2016 7:06 PM  

There's probably a book idea in the deracination concept - what will the world look like if America collapses into multiple ethnically distinct nations in the next century or two?

Blogger Chris Mallory February 28, 2016 7:22 PM  

@187 If you lived in America instead of California, you would see that true Americans have very little admixture in them. You are not an American, you are a Filipino and really you need to round up Malkin and head on back to Subic Bay.

Anonymous Brick Hardslab February 28, 2016 7:56 PM  

@190 Chris Mallory

Good call about Subic. If he can't be a good guest he could at least shut his mouth. But no he keeps lecturing Americans about how we should run things.

He thinks everybody should turn into Brazil or the Philippines. This is what they are missing. Their arrogance and ignorance will lead to them getting themselves deported.

Blogger Doc Rampage February 28, 2016 8:29 PM  

It's kind of ironic to see someone of Mexican/Indian descent saying 1. that he knows better than me what the real America is and 2. that only Englishmen can really understand what the real America is.

Here's a thought, Vox. Maybe you are projecting. Maybe you don't really grasp the concept of America yourself because of the way that you were brought up, and you are incorrectly merging it with the nationalism that you learned from your Indian and Mexican relatives and getting it completely wrong.

Doesn't that seem more plausible than your theory that 90% of Americans have been wrong about what America is all about for the last 50 years?

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY February 28, 2016 9:42 PM  

I was reading a reply to Salt from some gal named Amanda over there saying that her Great-Grandma was on the Trail of Tears.
I think she forgot some Greats behind Granny, But details shouldn't get in the way of a good story, should it ?
She also claimed she 3 Great Granpa's fight in the War of Yankee Totalitarianism.I guess i got burned . I only have 2, one on my Daddy's side and one on my Momma's side. Huns, my ass . More like sniveling shits if you ask me.
Sarah is a legend in her own mind, and her acolytes follow suit.

Blogger buwaya puti February 28, 2016 9:42 PM  

I don't see the US collapsing into ethnically distinct nations because for the most part it is far too mixed up for that. The most likely split is of Texas plus a large proportion of the South, West and mid-west States seceding. These between them would be a viable nation and a world power. They will, however, be as ethnically mixed as the remainder.
Second, the rate of intermarriage/interbreeding is intense everywhere. This does not point to any significant populations, other than blacks, that want to be distinct socially or in any other way.
Third, the only "race" that has any prospect of separatism with contiguous populations are "Hispanics", or properly Mexicans. There simply isn't any irredentism or separatism here; the second and later generations do not speak Spanish and do not listen to ethnic media, much to the frustration of Univision.
Your real danger is what you are dealing with now - these minorities lending voting power to WHITE factions, who want to create (or further entrench) a corporatist state. Your actual enemies are white.

Blogger buwaya puti February 28, 2016 9:43 PM  

I don't see the US collapsing into ethnically distinct nations because for the most part it is far too mixed up for that. The most likely split is of Texas plus a large proportion of the South, West and mid-west States seceding. These between them would be a viable nation and a world power. They will, however, be as ethnically mixed as the remainder.
Second, the rate of intermarriage/interbreeding is intense everywhere. This does not point to any significant populations, other than blacks, that want to be distinct socially or in any other way.
Third, the only "race" that has any prospect of separatism with contiguous populations are "Hispanics", or properly Mexicans. There simply isn't any irredentism or separatism here; the second and later generations do not speak Spanish and do not listen to ethnic media, much to the frustration of Univision.
Your real danger is what you are dealing with now - these minorities lending voting power to WHITE factions, who want to create (or further entrench) a corporatist state. Your actual enemies are white.

OpenID luciussomesuch February 28, 2016 9:49 PM  

buwaya: "I find it hard to understand a distaste for mestizos"

--Because y'are, Blanche, y'are.

Really, buwaya, I'm sure you're nice enough in real life, but you make a complete ass of yourself with your ludicrous and demanding Filipino supremacism.

Are you truly incapable of comprehending what is being discussed here? The people of your cheery little archipelago impress nobody outside of said archipelago, except as pleasant little brown people; and if a Portuguese literati makes herself ridiculous trying to tell American-Americans what makes America America, then tenfold you.

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY February 28, 2016 9:55 PM  

Vox was born here, as was I. Vox's family has been here a long time , as well as mine. If you don't get the difference between a natural born citizen who's family was here before this Nation's founding, and a Portygee who is not a NBC, then hie your butt Back to Hoyt's Dunce Central, where you fit in just fine, Daktari.

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