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Sunday, February 14, 2016

On loyalties, divided and whole

What is reprehensible is not the suggestion that Jews living in America might have divided loyalties. That is arguably the best case scenario. What is reprehensible, and quite possibly anti-semitic, is the idea that a Jew living in America cannot possibly have divided loyalties:
Congress is rarely called upon to dispel conspiracy theories. But it needs to teach the Pentagon to separate fact from fiction, because American Jews are routinely denied security clearances based on nothing more than a fear that they are Israeli spies.

Consider Gershon Pincus, a 62-year-old dentist and lifelong New Yorker who sought a way to serve as he approached retirement. He found a position at a naval dental clinic in upstate Saratoga Springs, and started work in July 2014.

All was going well until this past September, when Pincus was informed that he wasn’t eligible for a security clearance. The rejection was accompanied by a Statement of Reasons that concluded “foreign contacts and interests may be a security concern due to divided loyalties.”

Incredibly, the totality of the concern about Pincus was his contact with his 89-year-old mother and his middle-aged brother and sister, who had moved to Israel as adults.

The charge of “divided loyalties” has a particularly repugnant resonance to American Jews. It’s usually whispered behind closed doors, and so it’s doubly disconcerting when it is the reason given for official government action.
It is perfectly reasonable to suspect a Jew with family ties to Israel of being less than entirely loyal to the United States; I have met very, very few American Jews who have declared that they would be willing to wage war against Israel on America's behalf. Yes, Israel is a nominal ally at present, but then, America has waged war against former allies and made allies of former enemies throughout the course of its history. And Israeli forces have killed more American soldiers than most Arab or Eastern Bloc militaries.

It is known that Israel spies on the USA; indeed, Israel would be criminally remiss if it did not do so. But it is no more in the American national interest to permit Israel to spy than it is to permit China, Russia, or Germany to do so.

For most Americans, the issue isn't whether Jews have divided loyalties or not, it is whether they have any loyalty to the USA at all, given how Jewish opinion leaders such as Spengler and the Learned Elders of Wye quite openly demonstrate that they, at least, do not.

Of course, this isn't a matter of concern that is limited to Jews. The same problem applies to Chinese citizens resident in the USA as well as many other nations. The idea that any individual can legitimately possess dual citizenships or undivided loyalties to more than one nation is a pernicious and dyscivic notion, and I expect that as the pendulum returns to historical normality and long-suppressed nationalism rises around the world, the nonsensical concept will eventually be erased from the law.

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94 Comments:

Blogger YIH February 14, 2016 8:44 AM  

Merchant, you're our greatest ally!

Blogger Mr.MantraMan February 14, 2016 8:47 AM  

Seems like they chose to highlight this poor man so as to make mockery of the law, while at the same time literal dual citizens are probably handwaved straight into the intel field.

The empire must die so the nations may live.

Anonymous The OASF February 14, 2016 9:22 AM  

Or maybe this guy's clearance was denied because we, you know, have a Muslim dictator wannabe as commander in chief and this persecution against Jews will become exponentially worse in the near future.

And I doubt that the two illegal immigrants, one of which will almost surely be the next commander in chief in Cruz and Rubio will direct his staff to treat our precious Jewish Americans any better.

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr February 14, 2016 9:27 AM  

IIRC, in the mid-1980s, having relatives who were foreign citizens was a disqualifier for a security clearance. Certainly it would raise serious questions.

Hillary Clinton's spillage of classified materials notwithstanding, the Department of Defense does take its secrets seriously.

OpenID calebqwashington February 14, 2016 9:35 AM  

Israel is of particular concern for people worried about counter-intelligence. Perfectly reasonable to deny someone a clearance, especially if his brother was employed by the government or something like that.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer February 14, 2016 9:35 AM  

Why would a Dentist need a security clearance anyway? There are (or at least were, its been a long time since I was in) Army occupations that did not require a clearance. Cook comes to mind. I see no reason a Dentist would need one.

A bit OT yes, but still, the guy is a dentist.

Blogger Jew613 February 14, 2016 9:38 AM  

I would rather a Jew have dual loyalty then no loyalty to his people. Beyond which does not everyone despise a man who would sell out his own people?

Anonymous Steve Canyon February 14, 2016 9:41 AM  

SOP for the DoD. All medical jobs have a secret clearance, primarily for HIPAA considerations and because they might need to work on personnel that deal with nukes.

Anonymous Fran February 14, 2016 9:42 AM  

Are Jews/Israel more patriarchal or more matriarchal?

Blogger icr February 14, 2016 9:43 AM  

Ha, a dentist. Look up "Irving Peress."

Anonymous Steve Canyon February 14, 2016 9:44 AM  

And for net access so they can view health records.

Blogger Escoffier February 14, 2016 9:48 AM  

Jew613 wrote:I would rather a Jew have dual loyalty then no loyalty to his people. Beyond which does not everyone despise a man who would sell out his own people?

Not sure if this is trolling but I'll assume it isn't. Fascinating as always how often Vox's point is made for him. Because if an American immigrant of any ethnic extraction has an entangling alliance then they are by definition not an American are they?

Also funny to me how the newest immigrant to America is always assumed to be deeply American even though they often have these conflicted loyalties while we who grew up here are considered racist scum for wondering at the loyalty of those who agitate for nothing more than more of their co-ethnics.

Blogger VFM #7191 February 14, 2016 9:49 AM  

Jew613 wrote:I would rather a Jew have dual loyalty then no loyalty to his people. Beyond which does not everyone despise a man who would sell out his own people?

Fine. Then the Jews all need to go to Israel.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash February 14, 2016 9:53 AM  

Ron Winkleheimer wrote:Why would a Dentist need a security clearance anyway? There are (or at least were, its been a long time since I was in) Army occupations that did not require a clearance. Cook comes to mind. I see no reason a Dentist would need one.
A bit OT yes, but still, the guy is a dentist.


Dentists use hypnotics all the time. Like pentathol, and scopalamine.
Even beyond that, a dentist knows the coming and going of warships.

Blogger Jew613 February 14, 2016 9:54 AM  

Fran, Israel is a highly patriarchal society, both the religious and secular portions of the nation. I think it helps that the Israeli feminists are particularly open in their craziness. Though they do have disproportionate power relative to their size and power.

Escoffier, questioning the loyalty of new immigrants who do not have an ethnic or religious tie to the people in a given country is not racist but rational. Furthermore I think all Jews should return to Israel. Or barring that follow the teachings of Rabbi Shimshon Refael Hirsch that a Jew must obey the local laws and be a good citizen. Though no matter what the Jew will always be suspect by the non-Jewish population.

Blogger Jake February 14, 2016 9:56 AM  

Of course this is true, I even have proof. As a Texan, if Texas ever decided to leave the USSA, I would be more than willing to fight for my home. I'm sure other southerners feel the same.

Anonymous Ad Victoriam February 14, 2016 10:18 AM  

It's been a number of years since I worked in DoD, but not only do I doubt things have not gotten better, I expect that they are worse: the security clearance system is completely broken. The dentist may have been stopped, but there are people in far, far more sensitive positions who are not being held to the same reasonable standard.

Blogger tz February 14, 2016 10:19 AM  

The "no-fly list" also comes to mind.

Blogger Salt February 14, 2016 10:19 AM  

I think the Jew is a special case, a singularity, an oddball.

Blogger Lovekraft February 14, 2016 10:22 AM  

I've been thinking lately what are the other minority groups doing in the west to fight Jihad, political correctness etc? Why is it the anglo-saxons have to keep fighting these battles?

Perhaps these minorities have no desire to help us and are waiting to pick up the scraps once the fighting's over.

The narrative has to shift to where these groups, that have remained silent until now, have to speak up and declare their principles.

Blogger tz February 14, 2016 10:28 AM  

"Is it Safe?" - Marathon Man
"You'll be a Dentist" - Little Shop of Horrors
"You can't handle the tooth!" - Reboot.

Blogger KC9ZNR February 14, 2016 10:34 AM  

Brings to mind Matthew 6:24 and Luke 16:13.

Anonymous Susan February 14, 2016 11:09 AM  

This is one of the reasons that people have concerns about Ted Cruz, a man that up until recently, had a Canadian passport and dual citizenship. Divided loyalties can bite somebody when they least expect it to.

Blogger Josh February 14, 2016 11:14 AM  

Are Jews/Israel more patriarchal or more matriarchal?

Our Jewish/Israeli ilk can confirm, but my understanding is that Jewish entity is matrilinear.

Blogger praetorian February 14, 2016 11:19 AM  

I would rather a Jew have dual loyalty then no loyalty to his people. Beyond which does not everyone despise a man who would sell out his own people?

his people

Exactly.

You have to go back.

Though no matter what the Jew will always be suspect by the non-Jewish population.

Exactly.

And, always and everywhere, this is a problem with the non-jewish population.

Blogger VFM #7191 February 14, 2016 11:20 AM  

Jew613 wrote:Though no matter what the Jew will always be suspect by the non-Jewish population.

And for good reason.

Blogger Shimshon February 14, 2016 11:21 AM  

Jewish identity passes through the mother, but Jewish society is highly patriarchal.

Anonymous Anonymous February 14, 2016 11:22 AM  

Stanley Fischer: Vice Chairman of the Federal Reserve, dual American-Israeli citizenship, ex-Govenor of the Bank of Israel.

OpenID sigbouncer February 14, 2016 11:25 AM  

I only know one. So small sample size withstanding. These were his thoughts.

He has said on multiple occasions that he would go back to Israel if they had a war. Or if the US and Israel were in a joint war. He would go back to defend Israel. He has also said that his race is far superior to all others. And is very suspicious of anyone who wants to convert. His claim is usually that they only want to convert for the money or the women.

Haven't seen the guy in years now and probably won't see him again. But I would say he very much fits the profile of being more loyal to Israel than the US.

Blogger praetorian February 14, 2016 11:30 AM  

It is too bad that this conversation always ends up devolving into shrieks of ANTUH-SUHMUUUUUUUUUUUUUH and JOOOOOOOOOOOOS. There are obviously many very good jewish folk and it is also just as obvious that many of the problems in western societies are direct consequences of policies advocated by a vocal segment of the jewish community.

When I see some scots-irish trash shitting up my town with his Muh Shamrock, I find it infuriating. Do the jews here have a similar reaction when they see jews leading the charge on population-replacement?

Anonymous pol mordreth February 14, 2016 11:58 AM  

Saratoga Springs is one of the two places where the navy trains nuclear propulsion rates. Everything about the program is at least classified, and it is a high stress school. Add to that that it is common to get people to tell you things when coming out of anesthesia, and you have the need for a dentist to have clearance. Removal of wisdom teeth us still required for submarine service, and IT is a procedure with anesthesia.

Blogger bob k. mando February 14, 2016 12:18 PM  

7. Jew613 February 14, 2016 9:38 AM
I would rather a Jew have dual loyalty then no loyalty to his people. Beyond which does not everyone despise a man who would sell out his own people?



i don't begrudge a Jew in any way the right / responsibility to be loyal to his own people.

but to then turn around and demand the the goy be fucking retarded enough to give you security clearances ... you have no respect for us at all, do you?

Anonymous Frieheel February 14, 2016 12:26 PM  

"For most Americans, the issue isn't whether Jews have divided loyalties or not, it is whether they have any loyalty to the USA at all"

What's quite clear is that vox day doesn't have the slightest idea what most Americans think about Americans who are Jewish, but also that he appears to know a very limited number of American Jews. Otherwise, why so stupid?

Anonymous meh February 14, 2016 12:31 PM  

When I see some scots-irish trash shitting up my town with his Muh Shamrock,

Terminological precision matters. Either you mean Scots-Irish, as in American Protestants mostly from the borderlands of Southern Scotland/Northern England, by way of Northern Ireland (in which case, they don't use the Shamrock as their symbol), or you mean Irish-American Catholics, who do use the Shamrock as their symbol. But you can't mix the name of the one group in with the symbol of the other; they aren't interchangeable. It suggests that you don't know much about one or both of the groups in question.

Blogger unconventional nazi February 14, 2016 12:40 PM  

33. Frieheel February 14, 2016 12:26 PM

"What's quite clear is that vox day doesn't have the slightest idea what most Americans think about Americans who are Jewish, but also that he appears to know a very limited number of American Jews. Otherwise, why so stupid?"

TRIGGERED!

Anonymous Frieheel February 14, 2016 12:41 PM  

And the real problem is not with Jewish Americans. The real problem is with Christian Americans who put their religion over their country. Too many of these kind would happily harm their fellow citizen for the sake of their God. It's dangerous and dispicable.

Blogger Artisanal Toad February 14, 2016 12:45 PM  

As an American, the major appeal of dual nationality (which is easily purchased and upgraded) is not my lack of nationalist loyalty but rather the lack of nationalist loyalty displayed by my government. In other words, if the government of my country of birth is demonstrably tyrannical, it makes sense to have another passport kept in a special place, along with a few other items such as cash, just for emergencies. When my government makes it illegal (for all practical purposes) to keep money in an account outside their reach and requires I get permission to leave the country (both conditions exist for US citizens today, BTW), it demonstrates *it* is the one that cannot be trusted, not me.

Where does my loyalty lie? First to me, then to my family, my race, my community of faith and then to my country. A government that will not defend the rights of the individual and makes war on family, race and faith is arguably the enemy. Refusing to defend the borders and allowing millions of aliens into the country for the purpose of destroying the race, faith and culture of the nation is a perfect example. That government is in control of the legislative, judiciary and law enforcement only makes the problem worse.

It's all well and good to express a nationalistic sense of "us or them" but I could make a *long* list of reasons why any citizen of the United States has very good reason to fear their government. Especially if they're the sort that believe in free speech, the rule of law, the right to self-defense and the tools necessary to accomplish said self-defense. Even more so if they're a veteran.

So, while I completely understand the issue of loyalty and divided loyalties WRT dual citizenship, there exists another aspect of dual nationality which is self-defense. My advice to successful individuals was, is and shall continue to be that if they have the opportunity they should do whatever they need to do to get a second passport. It isn't that difficult and it allows one a level of freedom unattainable to "ordinary" US citizens who are stuck with the government the majority deserves. Should they suffer because they are not members of the r-selected majority? Hell, you may not need it but at least give your kids a fighting chance.

One seldom hears the advice in forums devoted to self-defense, but most confrontations are best dealt with by flight, not fight. Sure, sometimes flight is not an available option and at that point you'll be very thankful if you carry a weapon, but if it's available flight is almost always the wiser course of action. This point of view is usually shouted down by chest-thumping wannabe's that have never heard a shot fired in anger, but for those who have been there and done that, I never get an argument to the point. On a larger scale a second passport opens the door, not in a "get out of jail free" sort of way, but as a means of getting in the door somewhere else after making a successful flight from your own country.

To those who claim dual-nationality is an ideological purity test, perhaps that's correct, but that test applies to both sides. Show me a government that enforces the guarantees on my God-given and Constitutionally secured rights and I'll show you a country in which I arguably have no need of a second passport. Does that mean I'd give it up? No, nor will I give up my guns either.

The right to flee and the need to maintain the status necessary to flee when forced to is just as much a part of self defense as the right to own, carry and *use* the means of self defense to protect your life when attacked. Will you lay down your arms if you get a government that actively protects your rights? Only if you are a fool. It's the same with a little book that allows me to enter another country *by right* and start my life over again if and when my own government makes life too unbearable in my own country.

If "Gault's Gulch" exists, it isn't in the US.

Blogger Keyser Soze February 14, 2016 12:51 PM  

Haha, what about all the guys & gal on the FED? What about Stanley Fischer? Talk about a screwed up world.

Blogger John Evans February 14, 2016 12:53 PM  

Related anecdote: As a dual citizen, (but my other citizenship is a small country that tends to lose wars and has no imperial ambitions), I am aware of dual citizenship as a dual loyalty, needing to be managed, involving the future potential for tension and even conflict. My loyalty is to the people and their land in both cases, though, not to the politicians and jobholders, so the potential for conflict is limited. Since I do not have the State mixed up with God, it is actually a small advantage to me that the two governments have relations the diplomats call "correct" ("Smiling and saying 'nice doggie!' while looking for a rock.") There are things the US Feral Gummint cannot do to me, even if I return to the US to live, because I have that different-colored passport and a permanent right to reside elsewhere. How much Ecuador will do to prevent one person from getting used up as a helpless tool of another state varies widely, but Julian Assange shows one possibility. I think multiple loyalties are an important support for civilized human individuation, and even potentially conflicting loyalties in the same category can do more good than harm. Intelligent administration of security clearances would flag the discussed person both ways (Use this person preferentially for operations involving cooperation with Israel; keep him out of any compartment containing information we do not now want the Israeli government to have.) Dual citizenship can be an enriching complication.

Blogger Sheila4g February 14, 2016 12:56 PM  

@15 Jew 613: "Or barring that follow the teachings of Rabbi Shimshon Refael Hirsch that a Jew must obey the local laws and be a good citizen. Though no matter what the Jew will always be suspect by the non-Jewish population."

How, pray tell, can one be a "good citizen" in a nation where one feels no allegiance to that nation or its inhabitants? American Jews may not commit murder and mayhem like American Negroes, but their financial misdeeds are legion, they regularly demonstrate minimal if any loyalty to America, and they constantly advocate for policies deleterious to the historic American nation. Does avoiding drunk driving compensate for visceral animosity?

For a people purportedly so clever, I'm regularly astonished at the degree of - tone deafness? - utter obliviousness to what their words reveal? - lack of self awareness? that Jews' statements (such as yours) demonstrate. The implicit superiority (good citizens that will be unfairly mistrusted) and acknowledged foreign loyalty (their people will always be other Jews, ergo non-Jewish Americans are not their people) elicit the strongest distaste.

Blogger Dexter February 14, 2016 1:01 PM  

I bet it's more than just "being a dirty yid".

I bet he has an Israeli passport, or relatives there, or has money/ property there.

Blogger Escoffier February 14, 2016 1:05 PM  

Since you are presuming to speak for all Americans why don't you enlighten us rubes.

Blogger VD February 14, 2016 1:13 PM  

So, while I completely understand the issue of loyalty and divided loyalties WRT dual citizenship, there exists another aspect of dual nationality which is self-defense. My advice to successful individuals was, is and shall continue to be that if they have the opportunity they should do whatever they need to do to get a second passport. It isn't that difficult and it allows one a level of freedom unattainable to "ordinary" US citizens who are stuck with the government the majority deserves. Should they suffer because they are not members of the r-selected majority?

No. If you get the second citizenship, your own should be stripped and you should be expelled from the country. Which, you will note, was the way it worked for most of human history; some of the language on the various forms one has to fill out still reflect this.

Every "new American citizen" who "swears allegiance" now forswears himself if he does not relinquish his native citizenship. As I said, the entire concept is absurd.

Blogger VD February 14, 2016 1:15 PM  

I think multiple loyalties are an important support for civilized human individuation, and even potentially conflicting loyalties in the same category can do more good than harm.

This is a) solipsistic and b) ridiculous. The evidence to the contrary is both overwhelming and non-theoretical.

Anonymous Discard February 14, 2016 1:39 PM  

Can anything be discussed at high levels of government with Israel being informed? Could, for example, a first strike to decapitate Israel and destroy all their nuclear capabilities possibly be carried out?

I wonder if there is, within the U.S. military, a secret anti-Zionist cabal making sure that we can destroy them if need be? Just in case.

Blogger Joshua Sinistar February 14, 2016 1:39 PM  

Keeping a jew out of ZOG? It'd be funny if it was true. Money is short nowadays, and the vampires are beginning to see shortages. That old alliance between diaspora and Palestinian jews has dried up. Also, they need a new Holocaust story because dark people don't care about Hitler anymore. Yomamma has arranged a present for Bibi and his boys to make a whole new Soap Opera for the diaspora. Jerusalem is Holy, but the Synagogue of Satan cares nothing for Holies, only dough ray me.

Blogger Tim February 14, 2016 1:46 PM  

That dog won't hunt. Unless the US Govt is going to deny security clearance to all Muslims, for the very good reason their religion tells them it is ok to lie and deceive until the time to betray comes, then you cannot deny it to Jewish people. It is obviously a violation of their rights. If they can deny it to the Jews (OR the Muslims), who is to say they will not someday deny it to Christians (or Irish, or Mexican, or whoever). Or do you actually think Obama would not deny Christians any place in the government if he thought for a second he could get away with it?

Blogger praetorian February 14, 2016 1:54 PM  

Terminological precision matters

Fair point. My grand-father was scots-irish and me nana was FOB Irish, so I mix them up sociologically. Besides Muh Orange doesn't sound as funny.

Anonymous Jack Amok February 14, 2016 1:59 PM  

February 14, 2016 1:13 PM
So, while I completely understand the issue of loyalty and divided loyalties WRT dual citizenship, there exists another aspect of dual nationality which is self-defense. My advice to successful individuals was, is and shall continue to be that if they have the opportunity they should do whatever they need to do to get a second passport.


There's an old saying that you can't cheat an honest man. It means that most scams involve offering a deal that's too good to be true, tempting a man to ignore what he knows to be right in pursuit of some advantage. The payoff blinds him to the problems, which end up biting him in the ass.

This advice reminds me of that saying. It's tempting, dual-passports do provide the advantage described. But there's a downside, the one Vox mentions. A large number of people - on one side at least, possibly on both sides - see you as a potential traitor. Someone not entirely trustworthy.

At them moment, not much happens because of that, but the moment always passes, and the future is likely to be unkind to people with problems clearly declaring their allegiance.

Declare.

Anonymous Takin' a Look February 14, 2016 2:08 PM  

@ Tim

"That dog won't hunt."

Not only does it hunt, it is baying for the guns.

Christianity:Render what is Ceasers/obey the law of the land.

Islam:Taqiyya

Talmudic Judaism:Kol Nidre

Both are weasely loop-holes that allow lies and falsehoods _For the specific purposes of gaining power over the infidels/goyim"

The God of the Christians says he will damn them if they get up to the trickery of the other two.

Blogger Jourdan February 14, 2016 2:12 PM  

This happens in USG all the time to people, from a wide variety of backgrounds. Especially from states with active Intelligence agencies with a history of using family and/or ethnic pressure and appeals, both to family in the state in question and on the American, to force them to act in the agency's behalf.

And Israel has a very, very active intelligence agency, and, yes, it does spy on USG and recruit Americans.

I've personally seen this happen to Americans of the following background, with family still in the origin state: Russians, Pakistanis, Chinese, Korean, Mexican, Saudis and, yup, Brits.

Nothing unusual about this.

Anonymous Skeptical Protestant February 14, 2016 2:39 PM  

Please support statement about Israel killing US soldiers. I assume you are not talking about the USS Liberty or you would have said sailors.

Anonymous Fiddler on the truff February 14, 2016 3:56 PM  

Missed the point. We need loyalty to the US, period.

Israeli Jews loyal to Israel get a beer and a backslap.

American Jews loyal to Israel get bars or a bullet.

Anonymous JI February 14, 2016 4:01 PM  

Vox said: "And Israeli forces have killed more American soldiers than most Arab or Eastern Bloc militaries."

Other than the USS Liberty incident, when have American soldiers been killed by the Israeli military? Or was Vox referring solely to that incident?

Blogger SciVo February 14, 2016 4:16 PM  

Tim wrote:Unless the US Govt is going to deny security clearance to all Muslims, for the very good reason their religion tells them it is ok to lie and deceive until the time to betray comes, then you cannot deny it to Jewish people.

1. Please try and pay attention. His mother, brother and sister live in a foreign country. That isn't normal for heritage Americans, and it would require willful ignorance to pretend that it doesn't pose a security risk, as Jourdan said @51.

2. Also: what Takin' a Look said @50. Sanity requires discrimination in the sense of telling the difference between things that are different, and treating them appropriately.

Blogger Tim February 14, 2016 5:45 PM  

But we are not talking about a NSA appointment here. A DENTIST working at a CLINIC on a NAVAL BASE requires only the most basic of security clearances. IMMIGRANTS with ENTIRE FAMILIES outside the USA can get the basic military security clearance. The odds that some Naval Officer under anesthesia will blab some critical secret that a random Jewish dentist will overhear.....sorry, discrimination in the difference between things is exactly what I was describing.

Anonymous Discard February 14, 2016 6:03 PM  

56. Tim: It's one thing if the prospective serviceman has family connections to South America or Absurdistan, another thing entirely if the connections are in Israel, the arch-enemy of the West. Like SciVo wrote, sanity requires discrimination.

Blogger Fred February 14, 2016 6:07 PM  

Vox,

50+ comments and no one mentioned Jonathan Pollard and the damage he did to US national security? So much for remembering (recent) history.

Anonymous BGKB February 14, 2016 6:12 PM  

The reason a certain type of jew fears Bibi Netanyahooo more than moslem beheaders is they understand (but wont admit) that only the religious/right leaning jews in Israel are breeding, so if they flee like rats on sinking ships they will see Israel turn right during the winter of their lives.

IIRC, in the mid-1980s, having relatives who were foreign citizens was a disqualifier for a security clearance.

Having a facebook account used to disqualify clearance.

SOP for the DoD. All medical jobs have a secret clearance

If you are in an operating room with a patient with high levels of clearance you want sedation set for "far far away" so they cant "talk in their sleep",& be ready to give them a post op narcan "rude awakening" because there will be a commissar.

VD said "I will snap my fingers and a rabbit dancing on one leg will appear"

"Jew613 I would rather a Jew have dual loyalty then no loyalty to his people."

I think multiple loyalties are an important support for civilized human individuation, and even potentially conflicting loyalties in the same category can do more good than harm.

Reduce the value of everything until no one would fight over anything.

There's an old saying that you can't cheat an honest man Madoff and Corzine could.

Other than the USS Liberty incident, when have American soldiers been killed by the Israeli military The Lavon affair tried to do it along with every war fought for Israel. Wilkes Booth killed the Commander in Chief of the armed forces before he could institute sound money and ship blacks to africa.

Anonymous BGKB February 14, 2016 6:13 PM  

50+ comments and no one mentioned Jonathan Pollard

Look at the first comment.

Blogger Michael Maier February 14, 2016 6:53 PM  

I don't even like Tim, but I'm all for banning Muslims of any sort.

And screw the Jews and Israel. Backstabbing pricks would sell us out for a shiny nickel if they thought they could get by without us.

And before anyone runs their mouths, first explain the USS Liberty to me. I'm slow, so use small words.

Blogger Michael Maier February 14, 2016 6:54 PM  

"There's an old saying that you can't cheat an honest man."

Moronic old saying.

Blogger Rusty Fife February 14, 2016 7:00 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash February 14, 2016 7:02 PM  

There's an old saying that you can't cheat an honest man Madoff and Corzine could.

I dunno what scam Corzzine was running. I think he just up and stole his customers money and the SEC refused to reclaim it, and DOJ refused to prosecute.

Madoff on the other hand was claiming rates of return well in excess of 5 times the general market. Everybody who invested with him assumed he was front-running the market or doing insider trading. The knew it was dishonest, and purposely avoided investigating further.

Blogger Were-Puppy February 14, 2016 7:02 PM  

@12 Escoffier
Also funny to me how the newest immigrant to America is always assumed to be deeply American even though they often have these conflicted loyalties while we who grew up here are considered racist scum for wondering at the loyalty of those who agitate for nothing more than more of their co-ethnics.
---

It's ridiculous to equate as equal something like an anchor baby vs someone who's family may have been here 300 years or more. Magic Dirt strikes again.

Blogger VD February 14, 2016 7:05 PM  

Please support statement about Israel killing US soldiers. I assume you are not talking about the USS Liberty or you would have said sailors.

I am referring to the USS Liberty. I used the generic term soldier, as in a member of the armed forces.

Blogger Were-Puppy February 14, 2016 7:05 PM  

@23 Susan
This is one of the reasons that people have concerns about Ted Cruz, a man that up until recently, had a Canadian passport and dual citizenship. Divided loyalties can bite somebody when they least expect it to.
--

That's an absolute deal killer for me. I'm not sure he has loyalties to anything but Globalists.

Rubio also - a fresh anchor baby has no roots in this country.

Anonymous BGKB February 14, 2016 7:16 PM  

can't cheat an honest man...Madoff on the other hand was claiming rates of return well in excess of 5 times the general market

One reason Napoleon was so loved by his people is he ended the Rothchild practice of finding out a man died then showing up with a contract signed with an X saying the man owed them money. This scam still goes on today, which is why some people suggest not running an obituary until you close/lock the deceased accounts,& check the safe deposit box.

Anonymous BGKB February 14, 2016 7:18 PM  

Sorry I should have said that practice made women and children debt slaves and Napoleon made it so debt couldn't transfer to them. That's why an army sent to stop him alone ended up following him.

Blogger Jourdan February 14, 2016 8:14 PM  

On the other hand, USG is surprisingly tolerant of dual nationality. Due to the unique circumstances of my birth, I acquired three citizenships at birth: U.S., UK and Ireland (Eire). When I joined USG to work, many years ago, I was told I would need to forswear the other citizenships. At that time, that posed no problem for me as I was 100% American and viewed the others as unimportant legal technicalities that arose due to no action on my behalf.

To my surprise, when the moment came, the security folks said, in effect, "nah, you don't need to really do it, we just wanted to make sure you would and were willing to..now, if you were Iranian or Chinese, THEN that might be an issue...."

Blogger lowercaseb February 14, 2016 8:22 PM  

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Blogger lowercaseb February 14, 2016 8:27 PM  

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Anonymous Jack Amok February 14, 2016 8:58 PM  

"There's an old saying that you can't cheat an honest man."

Moronic old saying.


Then you don't understand it.

Blogger Artisanal Toad February 14, 2016 9:49 PM  

@43

No. If you get the second citizenship, your own should be stripped and you should be expelled from the country. Which, you will note, was the way it worked for most of human history; some of the language on the various forms one has to fill out still reflect this.

I'll overlook the fact that "most of human history" did not involve passports or government control of travel in any meaningful way.

It appears you're making a magic dirt argument. If I purchase citizenship in another country, I'm buying a product (a foreign passport) that allows me to occasionally avoid tyranny at home and if necessary escape my own tyrannical government. Yet I have zero desire to change my loyalty or allegiance to my country. So, is the dirt so magic in a poor country that sells its' citizenship that the mere act of purchasing their passport of such effect that it magically changes my loyalties and allegiance? If that's the case they should be selling their dirt instead of their passports.

But, perhaps the argument is not one of magic dirt, but rather that a person who doesn't want to be chained to the national suicide pact their *government* has adopted is somehow demonstrating a lack of loyalty to their *country*. That does not make sense unless one equates the government with the country. I suspect that would be a difficult argument to make to most Europeans today... although plenty of Americans are still stupid enough to buy it.

By that argument, the act of obtaining the right of entry to another country because one fears what one's own government is doing and might do in the future is an act so egregious that it calls into question one's loyalty to their own country... but... how is this any different from weapons ownership? By the same token one can claim that acquiring the means to defend one's self from oppression by the *government* is an act of disloyalty to the *country.* In the end it is a fallacious argument because the country is the people, not the government.

I make no argument that immigrants should not be required to make a choice to leave behind their old country and sever the ties that bind them, citizenship being one of them, as a requirement prior to being granted citizenship in the new one. Yet, that is a remarkably different situation than the individual who makes an "investment" and is rewarded with a passport from a country in which they've never lived, have no ties to, don't speak the language of and have no intention of ever living in. To equate the two is ridiculous.

Loyalty and allegiance to a particular country, race and culture is an issue of the heart and mind... and it speaks to both intent and affinity in terms of "belonging" to a particular group. The argument is far better made that one's chosen religion is a superior metric to estimate the likelihood of assimilation of immigrants than citizenship status, just as the willingness to serve in the armed forces is likewise a good metric. Should we have standards by which one can lose their citizenship?

It could be argued that any woman who frivorced her husband has actively betrayed her husband, her children and her community. She has worked to destroy a family, which is the foundation of community, church, culture and nation. Any woman who murders her child has proven she cannot be trusted with any position requiring fidelity and allegiance, because she has betrayed and murdered her own child.

Ultimately, the only reasonable argument against someone obtaining another passport is it calls into question their loyalty to their *country* and enables them to escape their duty to fight in time of need. This too is an argument no different from that of an armed citizenry. Shall we penalize those who would seek the means to defend themselves because they *might* use the weapons to commit crimes? Is maintaining the means to combat tyrannical government disloyalty to one's country or an act of patriotism?

Blogger YIH February 14, 2016 10:33 PM  

Do you know what makes me angry ''Jew613''?
What about the Golan Heights?.
You know it's in dispute as to whether it is part of Syria or part of Israel. But Israel controllers it, they claimed it (No, they won it as a spoil of war) it is effectively part of Israel.
Yet it's rather unoccupied, as Steve Sailer points out, there's enough room for a golf course there. Why does there not seem to be any room for Syrian 'refugees' there?.
I fully understand why you ''jew613'' and ''shimshon'' want them to go to Germany.
You call it ''The Shoah'', which is exactly what you seek to do to Germany.
I never said jews weren't clever. Why use nuclear weapons when you swindle the Germans into something equally destructive?
Call me an ''anti-semite'', ask me if I give a shit. If that means I desire to defend and protect MY PEOPLE the same same way jews do, then I'M PROUD to be an ''anti-semite''.
I give a damn about my country, as do you.
You belong in your country, I belong in mine.

OpenID joeholocaust February 14, 2016 11:43 PM  

@72 72. Anonymous Jack Amok February 14, 2016 8:58 PM
"There's an old saying that you can't cheat an honest man."

Moronic old saying.

Then you don't understand it.


What's to understand? Plenty of honest men have been cheated therefore it is false.

OpenID joeholocaust February 15, 2016 12:08 AM  

@54 Forget about Israeli forces for a minute because Jews in their own country can act in their nation's interest. The USS Liberty showed the rot in the US govt through the failure to retaliate for the unprovoked attack.
Jews are responsible for the deaths of white Europeans in the tens of millions by manipulating euro nations into war with each other on top of the Bolshevik crimes and after with genocide against the defeated Germans following WWII in punishment for their defiance of the Jew World Order. In the decades following the genocide has been widened to the plan for extinction of all European races and nations. If it was just stupidity of western jew vetted leaders then sometimes we would see policies that benefit the white race just as a coin flip lands in heads as well as tails. If the coin lands tails for white nations every time yet Israel follows the heads policy then you know it is deliberate and evil.
The genius of the Jewish plan is in how even after decades of evidence, there is still such a large number of people who still believe that Jews are innocent victims because NAJALT. The white race will not show any signs of recovering until western nations are swept clean of their globalist leaders and replaced by nationalists who do not care what the Marxists say about them.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash February 15, 2016 1:38 AM  

@joeholocaust
The point that is that cons depend on making the mark think he is a co-conspirator, and he and the conman are ripping someone else off.

Blogger Ingot9455 February 15, 2016 1:57 AM  

The Golan Heights are not safe to put refugees on. It basically overlooks the entire state of Israel, and anyone with a cheapass mortar could hit semi-random cities in Israel for pennies. So there's no putting Syrian refugees there.

The Syrian refugees could and should be marched into the sea for all I care, but Israel isn't going to put them on the Golan Heights.

Blogger papabear February 15, 2016 2:25 AM  

"Or barring that follow the teachings of Rabbi Shimshon Refael Hirsch that a Jew must obey the local laws and be a good citizen. Though no matter what the Jew will always be suspect by the non-Jewish population."

Not sure if this is what the rabbi is claiming but the former is not sufficient for the latter.

Blogger Stilicho February 15, 2016 5:29 AM  

Josh, I've often wondered if the matrilinear descent thing is an artifact of the ashkenazi being descendants of female jewish slaves (spoils of the jewish rebellion c. 70 AD) and their Roman masters... matrilinear tracking was the only way to keep the bloodline and the faith alive.

Blogger Dexter February 15, 2016 7:31 AM  

@47,

Unless the US Govt is going to deny security clearance to all Muslims, for the very good reason their religion tells them it is ok to lie and deceive until the time to betray comes, then you cannot deny it to Jewish people. It is obviously a violation of their rights.

THERE IS NO "RIGHT" TO HOLD A SECURITY CLEARANCE. The government can, does, and should "discriminate" against people with ties to countries well-known for their active espionage against us, including not only Israel but also France, Russia, China, and Cuba.

If they can deny it to the Jews (OR the Muslims), who is to say they will not someday deny it to Christians (or Irish, or Mexican, or whoever).

As it happens, I know somebody who was denied a clearance because (although born in the USA) he got an Irish passport because he had an Irish grandparent. So they are ALREADY denying clearances to the Irish - and should also do so to those with ties to Israel.

Blogger Eric Mueller February 15, 2016 7:43 AM  

What makes them special? I was born on an American Air Base in Spain, and according to the treaty at the time, I had dual citizenship. And the issue comes up every single time my security clearance comes up for review.

Blogger paradox February 15, 2016 8:07 AM  

@58 BGKB

Wilkes Booth killed the Commander in Chief of the armed forces before he could institute sound money and ship blacks to africa.

What a load of fucking Yankee horseshit. That SOB tyrant, Lincoln got what he deserved by a Southern patriot. That proto-progressive, Lincoln lied his ass off, he wouldn't have done anything with blacks. If he had lived, Gaybraham Lincoln, would have sucked black dick as much as you and Milo Yiannopoulos.

Anonymous Meh February 15, 2016 8:21 AM  

Lincoln favored a soft peace with the South - or at any rate, a softer peace than the Radicals favored. Johnson was thought to be a Radical (though he broke with them after he became President).

Therefore a "Southern Patriot" should have wanted to keep Lincoln in place.

Blogger Joshua Sinistar February 15, 2016 9:39 AM  

I refuse to believe the united States has a government. A government is Constitutionally required to defend the borders and interest of AMERICANS and no one else. Its supposed to maintain the infrastructure and support the interests of AMERICANS and no one else. I see no one like this on the Potomac.
That cesspool is a whorehouse where political whores pay back their donors with pilfered stolen money from Americans and given to EVERYONE BUT AMERICANS. The Small Business Administration hasn't given a dime to White Americans since I was born. The Chmaberpot of Commercialism can KISS MY ASS.
Capitalism is the definition of EVIL. THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL IS THE LOVE OF MONEY. WHO LOVES MONEY THE MOST? Its not Scrooge McDuck boys. He's a comic book character that only loves his money BECAUSE HE EARNED IT, EVERY PENNY OF IT WAS MADE WITH HARD WORK. He didn't steal a DIME of it.

Blogger Hank Brown February 15, 2016 11:28 AM  

What hypocrisy. Where's all this vigilance regarding Valery Jarret and Hussein's muslim cabinet?

Anonymous paradox February 15, 2016 1:17 PM  

Meh

Lincoln favored a soft peace with the South


Peace with the South?! Holy shit! You do realize Lincoln bombed cities with women and children? You also realize Lincoln's LOYALTY was NOT with the White European founders' principles and Constitution?

Anonymous Athor Pel February 15, 2016 2:09 PM  

" 8. Anonymous Steve Canyon February 14, 2016 9:41 AM
SOP for the DoD. All medical jobs have a secret clearance, primarily for HIPAA considerations and because they might need to work on personnel that deal with nukes."


A service member with a certain kind of clearance gets extra PRP paperwork in their medical records. PRP = Personnel Reliability Program

And it does have to do with anesthesia. A patient flagged as PRP while under anesthesia must always be chaperoned by another clearance holder from their unit. If the anesthisized patient speaks of classified things the chaperone will then require all medical personnel present to sign non-disclosure agreements.

There's more to PRP than just medical considerations but this is what I remember from when I was enlisted.

And yes you can lose your clearance if they find out you sleepwalk or talk in your sleep.

The only guy I knew that lost his TS:SCI clearance lost it fair and square so to speak. If you too wish to lose your clearance here's how. Get sloppy drunk drinking large quantities of soju. Go back to base after your night in the ville. Take off all your clothes. Around midnight go outside, yes, buck naked. Now start dancing and singing at the top of your lungs for a good long time, you want many witnesses. Fall down and pass out, order doesn't matter. Wake up in a holding cell remembering abolutely nothing from the night before. After all the paperwork is done you will likely end up in Thule Greenland or some other cold ass end of nowhere. Hope you enjoy folding linens.

Anonymous Quartermaster February 15, 2016 3:52 PM  

If all he did was general dentistry, then whole thing is worse than a tempest in a tea pot. General Dentists don't deal with general anesthesia. Oral and Maxillofacial Surgeons are a different lot, however. Most of the Oral Surgeons I know, however, have never used general anesthesia, while all the maxillofacial Surgeons have.

Some one in the Navy has simply gone overboard.

Anonymous Jack Amok February 16, 2016 2:54 AM  

What's to understand? Plenty of honest men have been cheated therefore it is false.

Good to know the train is still fine.

Anonymous Meh February 16, 2016 6:40 AM  

@87,

You obviously don't realize that Lincoln was not a late 20th century liberal idiot. He knew that the enemy had to feel the hard hand of war and know they were totally defeated BEFORE any "reconciliation" efforts began.

In short:
1. Hard War
2. Enemy surrenders
3. Soft peace
4. Reconciliation and victory

This contrasts with the Iraq War approach:

1. Soft war
2. Soft peace
3. Enemy does not believe he is defeated
4. American defeat and retreat

Read Lincoln's SECOND inaugural address.

Blogger Ron February 16, 2016 6:41 AM  

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Blogger Ron February 16, 2016 6:56 AM  

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