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Friday, February 26, 2016

Racial identity is dispositive

As I said, I always find Sarah Hoyt's take on things both interesting and amusing. In this case, it's because she completely fails to see how utterly predictable her response is, or how she is unwittingly providing observable support to the very argument she intellectually rejects:
One thesis I have seen a lot in recent months at The Blog Which Is A Misspelled Religious Latin Term is, to boil it down to its harshest formulation, “Shoot the Moderates”, because essentially the community there has given up on the idea that anything less than the extremism therein advocated will work, and that any attempt to restrain, control or suspend that extremism — for the sake of preserving future strategic alliances, for example — amounts to shooting your soldiers in the back when they look like they might be winning. From a certain point of view, I understand this reaction, but to me it is essentially saying, “We are sliding backwards so fast that we may as well disconnect the brakes,” without worrying about what will happen if you do successfully reverse the slide only to rocket back up the slope and go over the peak too fast. Reasonable men can argue in good faith over the difference in judgment required, but it strikes me as the stance of an unreasonable man to insist that even to ask to have the argument is sufficient grounds for rejecting it.

    accordingtohoyt | Reply   

THIS. and that’s why I said “they’re killing the republic I love and it feels like they’re killing me.” And when we respond we get told we’re insulting THEM. Oh, for heaven’s sake people, we’re just trying to understand why otherwise rational people would respond so irrationally. We would like you to leave us our republic. We’d like to keep it. And it’s not like I haven’t been fighting the progs all along. It’s not like I haven’t been in the trenches. What more could I do? Defend and imaginary “white race?” Screw that. any philosophy that enshrines your pasty white middle aged guy over Dr. Sowell is sick. I will not shut up. I will not submit.
The white race is not imaginary. America as an Anglo-Saxon nation is not imaginary. What is imaginary is the "proposition nation" version of America that she, the Portuguese immigrant, erroneously believes America to be. Red Eagle and I cover this in moderate detail in Cuckservative: How "Conservatives" Destroyed America.

We're not killing "the republic that she loves". It never existed in the first place. Nations are not places, governments, or ideas. Nations are people. Nations are, as the Founding Fathers wrote, posterity.

Sarah may want to consider herself their posterity, but she is not and they would not regard her as such either. Her position requires denying both history and reality, and her postnationalism is as deluded as any progressives. And it's hardly a surprise that the immigrant declares immigration, the very issue that is propelling Trump to the White House, isn't a problem.

"Look, immigration is not even a real thing anymore."

So the largest invasion in human history isn't "a real thing anymore"? Sarah, with all due affection and respect, it's not our opinion that is not reflective of reality. And Trump will not be Obama's third term. I don't know what he will be, but he won't be that.

That being said, I do rather like the sound of "Shoot the Moderates". They're certainly not good for much else besides target practice. But here is the very important point so many people fail to understand: we're not the extremists. We're the only viable alternative to the extremists.

Finally, Sarah, when you "respond" by telling people they are "confused" and "crazy" and "monsters" and "buffoons" and irrational and insane, you are insulting them.

Labels: ,

198 Comments:

Blogger Josh February 26, 2016 3:34 PM  

Shoot the Yankees before we shoot the moderates.

Blogger weka February 26, 2016 3:38 PM  

The menshiviks have always been shot by the bolsheviks. Regardless of if they self identify as Marxist or Monarchists.

Best thing is not let society deteriorate to the point that the menshiviks take power. The parallels with those who will vote for the Berne is an exercise for the student.

Blogger Thordaddy February 26, 2016 3:40 PM  

There is only one Litmus Test...

For or against wS...

AND it does not even matter whether one holds the true conception or the liberated one or none at all.

Anonymous Steve February 26, 2016 3:42 PM  

"Shoot the Moderates"

I'm with Nelson.

Lisa: Nuke the whales? You don't really believe that, do you?

Nelson: I don't know. Gotta nuke something.

Anonymous drnick February 26, 2016 4:01 PM  

http://voxday.blogspot.ca/2015/09/embrace-your-extremists.html

The corollary is that standing in the way of your shock troops means being run over by them. I'd suggest turning those guns forward again, Sarah, while that's still an option.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash February 26, 2016 4:03 PM  

"{...I will not submit."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Bitch, please. You already do. Every day. You've written long posts about how you submitted to the SF establishment. For years. You submit at every point and in every case, except to the people why have been trying to defend you.

Anonymous Takin' a Look February 26, 2016 4:03 PM  

"Sighs" agreed Vox, to these cucks and progs, it's always 1933 or 1968.

"Why don't you join the skinheads like the rest of the mouth-breathers"

Ever hear the joke about why blacks can't join the Klan? It is because they can't pass the FBI's background check. We've seen this movie before, try a new script....moderates.
"Spits"

Blogger Thomas Davidsmeier February 26, 2016 4:04 PM  

What stuns me is how sane and even polite Vox can be with people he likes.

I would have expected one of these responses to be a blistering evisceration by now. But no, we still have gentle correctives and explanations. Really, I expected more out of an award winning cruelty artist. I guess he's got his soft spots after all.

Blogger lowercaseb February 26, 2016 4:04 PM  

> I will not shut up. I will not submit.

Then you are the enemy.

Blogger Orville February 26, 2016 4:05 PM  

Nukes and moderators. There's a concept. Sarah and her kind believe they are the necessary ingredient to "control" the reaction, but they've shut down the pile entirely. We need to pull the moderators and get to full power.

Blogger SouthRon February 26, 2016 4:08 PM  

My first thought was extremists??? This is not extremism.

I'm hearing this from your average Joe that's never heard of Vox.

I'm hearing this from my overly kind and loving wife. She's expressing the same thoughts discussed in these pages when I haven't shared any of it with her and she's never read here. Hell, I use that as a sanity check on my hot-headed reactions.

Sarah, the laughing princess, has no idea what extremism would look like if it arrived on these shores.

Not surprised Vox said as much in his response.

Blogger Thordaddy February 26, 2016 4:11 PM  

The faggots in our "default elite" have been cultivating a growing legion of human-shields that quite predictably chose "white female" for the "elevated" role and understood that red-blooded white men would be the toughest sell. Sarah just isn't cognizant of this entire dynamic though it is rather primitive and pretty much in our face 24/7. There are those willing to smash these faggots and dykes and "jewhites" at the "top" of this turd pile. And Sarah just is immersed in a whole other game withn an entirely different world. For her, integration is a given. She cannot even "see" the profound separation that already exist all around her.

Blogger Noah B February 26, 2016 4:11 PM  

I see very few moderates actually arguing. They're reflexively calling us racists, Nazis, etc. because facts and reasoning scare them.

Blogger Student in Blue February 26, 2016 4:11 PM  

What is a moderate anyway? As far as I can tell, they are people who talk loudly about their principles but gladly throw them away whenever it suits them.

At the very least they're far, far more prone to throw them away than the extremist, and somehow this is a good thing.

That's probably the main problem Sarah is running into - she and her club see the terms "extremist" and "moderate" and automatically associate "bad" and "good" with them.

Anonymous PhillipGeorge©2016 February 26, 2016 4:14 PM  

"I will not submit". The same people said "Je Suis Charlie"

They will not submit except to the IRS, Political Islam, PC, diversity rules, convergence rules, gun control, gay rights, abortion rights, amnesty, pragmatic free trade agreements, Hillary's rights to her private servers, safe spaces, the new segregation, fault free divorce, vaccine abusers, Obamacare, the plans to fund freedom fighters in third world shitholes that happen to be eternal civil wars between Islamic sects, safe spaces for journalists, every assertion of beltway lobbyists, the right of the Fed to own all debt, Legal Fiction in all courts, the gold fringed flag, the white washing of false flag, the non autopsies of political opponents,

this is the short list.

Blogger Elocutioner February 26, 2016 4:15 PM  

"we’re just trying to understand why otherwise rational people would respond so irrationally."

Bullshit. You're rationalizing your delusions by declaring irrational an argument you can't refute.

It's not that you can't understand or that we haven't told you, it's that you willfully refuse to understand or accept the conclusions. It's arrogance that your beliefs are correct and not open to scrutiny. If a bunch of "otherwise rational" people, some of whom are observably smarter than you, all come to the same conclusion then *MAYBE* you are the one who's wrong. You can disagree on conclusions but that doesn't mean they're irrational. I know I've changed my mind more than once since coming here.

Blogger lowercaseb February 26, 2016 4:17 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous Elite Rope February 26, 2016 4:19 PM  

The funny thing is, in her analogy about the brake and the peak, she basically admits that moderates are why we've been sliding back, and that "extremists" (we're just passionate about having a good future for us and our posterity) would cause a reverse in direction.


So in usual emotional menstruating female fashion, she makes our point for us. After all, if the moderates are the brakes, then they're not going to ever make forward progress. Brakes, like moderates, don't provide forward momentum. And so instead of quickly careening off a cliff, we just slowly careen off a cliff.

Blogger lowercaseb February 26, 2016 4:20 PM  

@5: I'm not a hardcore wargamer, but I always viewed the moderates as infantry screen and the alt-right as the tanks. However, the moderates nowadays are not doing their job. They are playing plinking games with their sidearms with the other side's FOBs, complaining about how loud and disruptive the tankers guns are and forbidding them from firing.

They then try to hide behind them when the fight starts to get too hot.

I can't remember where I read this (I'm not DOD, I'm one of those annoying military brats) but it stuck with me enough that I pasted in my notepad.

"If you are working with any armored vehicle with reactive armor, stay away from it in combat. It might as well be wearing layer of claymores. Stay away."

Let's just stay the the alt-rights armour is VERY reactive. Get out of the way and let them fight.

edit: typos...splling is hrd

Blogger CarpeOro February 26, 2016 4:27 PM  

Careful Vox, you may be accused of mansplaining to wise old Latina.

Anonymous Steve February 26, 2016 4:27 PM  

"So because thou art lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spew thee out of my mouth."

Blogger Salt February 26, 2016 4:28 PM  

Sarah means well, bless her heart.

Blogger CarpeOro February 26, 2016 4:28 PM  

a wise old Latina.

Blogger lowercaseb February 26, 2016 4:30 PM  

@8. >Really, I expected more out of an award winning cruelty artist. I guess he's got his soft spots after all.

Well...it's not like he is a Choke Artist.

Damn, I really like how feisty Adams has been become lately.

Anonymous VFM #6306 February 26, 2016 4:31 PM  

The Moderate Manifesto:

"All things in moderation except moderation."

Blogger EasyCompany February 26, 2016 4:35 PM  

I have to admit one thing that Trump has done (and perhaps God is using him for this?)is shown people true selves.

So many have, for so long, said "I'm your ally, we may disagree on small things, but you can count on me!"

Now that Trump may, and I mean MAY, become President and implement his ideas, they're shocked to the core that it may actually become reality.

And show themselves as truly what they are:

Liars, traitors, and false prophets.

Blogger Salt February 26, 2016 4:36 PM  

"Look, immigration is not even a real thing anymore."

Using that as Sarah's understanding baseline of being American, like the vid "Winter is Trumping", I wonder if she realizes what side of that wall she is on?

Anonymous bw February 26, 2016 4:37 PM  

There are no Whites. There really is no Immigration.

The more obvious a fact one is in denial of, the more absurd a counterexample (or rationalization, in this case) the person will use.

Anonymous VFM #6306 February 26, 2016 4:41 PM  

You cannot moderately conserve. Pick one.

Anonymous Blue Manticore February 26, 2016 4:42 PM  

We're not killing "the republic that she loves". It never existed in the first place. Nations are not places, governments, or ideas. Nations are people. Nations are, as the Founding Fathers wrote, posterity.

Hate to be the one to bring this up but what's to stop allegations of the 'You're not a real nation just a collection of rebellious settlers who refuse to pay Her/His Majesty Her/His due revenues' kind?

Anonymous DDT February 26, 2016 4:42 PM  

Oh, for heaven’s sake people, we’re just trying to understand why otherwise rational people would respond so irrationally.

Angel - consider the possibility that you may be wrong.

Blogger Nate February 26, 2016 4:52 PM  

Hoyts complaint is like bitxhibg about the damage done by water from a fireman's hose.

The building is on fire sugartits. Moderate solutions don't work.

Blogger CarpeOro February 26, 2016 4:53 PM  

The term moderate has synonymous with saying "wants to stay in a safe place in the center of the herd". It sure does look like the "moderates" are intent on tripping those on the "fringe" so we fall and are eaten, in the hopes they can live a bit longer at our expense. I refuse to be a sheep and won't toss others out to buy myself some time. At the same time, I won't allow them to trip me up to become diner so that makes me "dangerous" and "irrational". Don't be shocked when the fringe bites back.

Anonymous Steve February 26, 2016 4:54 PM  

what's to stop allegations of the 'You're not a real nation just a collection of rebellious settlers who refuse to pay Her/His Majesty Her/His due revenues' kind?

Nothing.

Come back to Blighty and we'll put this revolution unpleasantness behind us.

To sweeten the pot, we'll even let you keep Adele.

Blogger praetorian February 26, 2016 4:56 PM  

leave us our republic.

Why would we care what she does with Portugal? We are talking about what to do with what used to be The United States here...

Blogger praetorian February 26, 2016 4:57 PM  

Shoot the Yankees before we shoot the moderates.

Just leave us some space, we'll stay out of your way...

Blogger Krul February 26, 2016 4:57 PM  

Blue Manticore wrote:Hate to be the one to bring this up but what's to stop allegations of the 'You're not a real nation just a collection of rebellious settlers who refuse to pay Her/His Majesty Her/His due revenues' kind?

The same thing that stops allegations of the "you're not a real nation, just a rabble of subjugated helots under the yoke of a French bastard and his band of banditti" kind.

Blogger Aeoli Pera February 26, 2016 5:00 PM  

That being said, I do rather like the sound of "Shoot the Moderates". They're certainly not good for much else besides target practice.

I don't play LoL, but as I understand it moderates are like the bot lane.

Blogger U PC BRO? February 26, 2016 5:04 PM  

It is rich that a Portuguese is referring to an imaginary white race when her mother country is THE example of the destruction even a small amount of admixture with a less intelligent race can cause. The average Portuguese has between 2-5% sub-Saharan African DNA, an unfortunate consequence of Portugal's dominant position in the slave trade. Before the African slave era began, Portugal produced great men like Henry the Navigator and Vasco da Gama. They were some of the world's greatest explorers, became fabulously wealthy, & conquered a good portion of the world. Then they got a case of jungle fever, and for going on 500 years have produced nothing of note.

Blogger Julie Dyal February 26, 2016 5:07 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Gaiseric February 26, 2016 5:09 PM  

I get the same thing from High Church Libertarians like Larry Correia too (or maybe it's the Portuguese... although I have a great-great-great grandfather from Madeira who gives me the ability to tan well, which I certainly don't get from my otherwise pretty straightforward Borderlander-Greater Appalachian ancestry, so I better be careful with attributing too much to that.)

They don't want to give up their devotion to free trade. They don't want to give up their virtue shield of intellectual superiority. They make the default assumption that any conservative that isn't with them on the Cruz-Paul train, or maybe the Rubio as an unpleasant last resort—is a deluded, stupid, cult member and "no true conservative." Even if you can get them to calm down and have a rational discussion, they don't really listen because they're too busy trying to tell you how it is.

I even got the "95% of economists disagree with you" on free trade, and "analogy fail" when I pointed said "just like 95% of scientists believe in anthropogenic global warming" before picking apart, both theoretically and observationally that free trade has been good for America.

They're very dogmatic. They're not bad people. They're not really our enemies. But fer cryin' out loud, if they won't get out of the freakin' line of fire and stop telling us not to fire on the advancing hordes of civilization destroying barbarians, eventually they're gonna get shot too. Regrettably, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

Blogger Noah B February 26, 2016 5:11 PM  

Hate to be the one to bring this up but what's to stop allegations of the 'You're not a real nation just a collection of rebellious settlers who refuse to pay Her/His Majesty Her/His due revenues' kind?

Nations have their legitimacy continually questioned. When they fail to demonstrate their legitimacy by successfully defending themselves, they cease to be legitimate nations.

Blogger SteelPalm February 26, 2016 5:20 PM  

One would think that Sarah Hoyt and other moderates would welcome a candidate like Trump, or a commentator someone like Vox, given her beliefs about immigration.

After all, Trump's own wife is an immigrant. He can't very well deport her. Nor is there any indication he would go after legal immigrants. A MORE EXTREME leader would, but not Trump.

Vox is himself a non-white expat living in Italy. And I'm pretty sure most commentators here don't have ancestors dating back to the Revolutionary War, either.

Point being, Trump is actually a moderate candidate on the subject of immigration. Vox's views aren't particularly extreme, either.

Blogger S1AL February 26, 2016 5:20 PM  

"The average Portuguese has between 2-5% sub-Saharan African DNA, an unfortunate consequence of Portugal's dominant position in the slave trade."

No. Most of the genetic admixture is due to the Moorish influence. And the average is way lower than that. Not to mention that it's an absolute crock of shit, genetically speaking, that a tiny admixture would have that effect.

I'm sure you have an equally inventive explanation for why the Nordic peoples are historically irrelevant in the last 500 years.

Blogger Were-Puppy February 26, 2016 5:24 PM  

@7 Takin' a Look

Ever hear the joke about why blacks can't join the Klan?
---
But in these new diverse times, they can


Blogger SteelPalm February 26, 2016 5:24 PM  

@44

Good rebuttal. You saved me some time.

There are some smart folks posting in these comments, alongside absolute idiots who think they're smart and mindlessly parrot Vox's views without comprehending the underlying reasoning.

OpenID b1bae96e-6447-11e3-b6bb-000f20980440 February 26, 2016 5:25 PM  

I will say you have to have a big pair of brass balls if you would presume to lecture somebody who's greatx6 grandparents were born on US soil about what it means to be a true American while your feet aren't even done drying yet. For crying out loud, at least the "dreamer" had a public school indoctrination.

Will Best

Blogger tz February 26, 2016 5:25 PM  

The Constitution and its branch of English law have been around a long time and can be copied by anyone.
Everyone agrees it was the best (before the 1960's) - most just, fair, prosperous, moral.

Portugal is free to adopt it.

Canada went socialist though is next door.

Japan is still feudal after adopting many American methods and ideas.

New Zealand is far away but ideologically closer - Who colonized?

The legal framework was there in South Africa and Zimbabwe when the whites were deposed.

The Constitution and republic were products, mechanisms, not ends in themselves. The founders had goals.

My guess is that Sarah thinks you are saying because she is not anglo, she can never be American.

My response is you can be adopted, but you must become as if you were biological. An old woman and man are now your grandparents. You are learning the culture and heritage of your adopted parents, not your native one.

You likely came to America because you weren't really Portugese. More independent, longer time preference, etc. than your kin. But that means your kin are ill suited to be Americans.

Blogger Were-Puppy February 26, 2016 5:30 PM  

@29 VFM #6306

You cannot moderately conserve. Pick one.
---

Moderately conserving - there are 3 holes in a boat and you plug 2 of them.

Blogger Were-Puppy February 26, 2016 5:32 PM  

@30 Blue Manticore

Hate to be the one to bring this up but what's to stop allegations of the 'You're not a real nation just a collection of rebellious settlers who refuse to pay Her/His Majesty Her/His due revenues' kind?
---

Already happened back in the 1700s

Blogger Joshua Sinistar February 26, 2016 5:32 PM  

Oh but just imagine the joy of being profoundly stupid. The clueless false moralism and the rebellious pose of lockstep conformity. They are only intolerant of those who are intolerant of their insanity, and they only hate us because we are prejudiced bigots they can't understand and refuse to listen to because we're different.
Its not hypocrisy. Its what happens when dumb and crazy coexist in a crazy quilt of delusional rainbow fantasies of magical elves and rainbow farting unicorns. Those damn rainbow farting unicorns. They probably kill the Gaia with their flatulent lovey dovey things they do. They need killing is all.

Anonymous Toddy Cat February 26, 2016 5:33 PM  

"Point being, Trump is actually a moderate candidate on the subject of immigration. Vox's views aren't particularly extreme, either."

Yes, it just shows how far to the Left the country has drifted in the last thirty years or so. All Trump is advocating is a return to sanity with regard to immigration, just enforcing those laws already on the books, passed by legislators, and signed by presidents, of both parties. The idea that Trump is some sort of fascist for wanting to enforce the laws of the U.S., a position advocated as recently as the Clinton Administration, by liberal icon Barbara Jordan, show just how far this insanity has gone. Ditto trade, all Trump is saying is that we should go back to the kind of moderate tariffs we have had throughout our history, as recently as the 1960's. Hell, Trump isn't Hitler, or even Mussolini - he's Eisenhower, whose Administration was once a byword for sensible, moderate policies. Was Ike a fascist, Ms. Hoyt? If so, he has a lot of company...

Blogger tz February 26, 2016 5:35 PM  

One warning. In the 1950's, 8% of black children were born to single mothers. Today 40% of white children are. Black neighborhoods then were safer than white neighborhoods today.

Civilized people can descend into barbarism.

The founding fathers were products of their heritage - the Magna Charta, Cromwell, etc. So were the citizens in France during their revolution.

It isn't the paper Constitution, it isn't mere genetics, nor an in-group preference - it is our honor, morality, justice, and other things inside that when strong and right allow us to live in freedom.

Blogger pyrrhus February 26, 2016 5:38 PM  

Sarah isn't even a cuckservative, she is an out and out Progressive with a few minor reservations......

Blogger Were-Puppy February 26, 2016 5:39 PM  

@47 b1bae96e-6447-11e3-b6bb-000f20980440

I will say you have to have a big pair of brass balls if you would presume to lecture somebody who's greatx6 grandparents were born on US soil about what it means to be a true American while your feet aren't even done drying yet.
---

This is one that the anchor babies can't answer. Why would their ideas supercede someone who has family that have fought and died for this country for centuries? They don't have even the slightest skin in the game compared to that.

Blogger pyrrhus February 26, 2016 5:39 PM  

I recall the Anthony Burgess novel "Tremor of Intent", where the boy hero says at the end that Neutrals always get it in the neck....so he picked a side, and killed the bad guy.

Blogger Stilicho February 26, 2016 5:42 PM  

A "moderate" is an extremist in pursuit of a comfortable surrender.

Anonymous #8601 Jean Valjean February 26, 2016 5:42 PM  

Excellent post, Vox. It is both logical and eloquent.

Hear, hear.

Blogger unconventional nazi February 26, 2016 5:43 PM  

"But here is the very important point so many people fail to understand: we're not the extremists. We're the only viable alternative to the extremists."

----------------------------

Tick tock tick tock.....
Don't worry. We've learned our lesson. There won't be any labor camps this time.

Blogger pyrrhus February 26, 2016 5:44 PM  

@47 Indeed. For example, several of my ancestors fought in the American Revolution, one was killed at the Battle of Tippecanoe, and so on....But someone who hasn't sacrificed a thing for this country, and really knows nothing about our traditions, wants to tell us what it's all about.

Anonymous Brick Hardslab February 26, 2016 5:44 PM  

No immigration? WTF When I was a kid the population was just north of 200 mil. Now it's somewhere around 333 mil. Are they just unable to understand math? Are we better off? Hell no.

Blogger Krul February 26, 2016 5:47 PM  

tz wrote:It isn't the paper Constitution, it isn't mere genetics, nor an in-group preference - it is our honor, morality, justice, and other things inside that when strong and right allow us to live in freedom.

This is a vital point. The most important thing that we can do is to practice good morality* ourselves, and the second most important is to instruct future generations in good morals. Demographics, systems of government, laws, and culture are all very important, but anyone who puts their faith in these things while ignoring personal morality is trying to get the fruit without the root.

*Christianity

Blogger Student in Blue February 26, 2016 5:49 PM  

@tz
It isn't the paper Constitution, it isn't mere genetics, nor an in-group preference - it is our honor, morality, justice, and other things inside that when strong and right allow us to live in freedom.

Culture is important. Destroying our own culture in the mid-20th century has in turn destroyed America as it was.

Of course genetics still play a part, but they aren't everything, neither are they completely negligible.

Anonymous Ras al Ghul February 26, 2016 6:25 PM  

I'm reminded of the Goldwater quote:

"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!"

Really, any thing that you value, or any principle you hold dear should be defended extremely.

Anonymous Mr. Rational February 26, 2016 6:32 PM  

@39   Got a cite for that?  I want to add it to my HBD files.

@44   Same request of you.

Blogger J Melcher February 26, 2016 6:33 PM  

If Sarah is wrong, she learned her error from Abe Lincoln.

Speech at Chicago, Illinois

Abraham Lincoln
July 10, 1858

"We are now a mighty nation,... and we own and inhabit about one-fifteenth part of the dry land of the whole earth. We run our memory back over the pages of history ... and we discover that we were [once] a very small people in point of numbers, vastly inferior to what we are now, with a vastly less extent of country,with vastly less of everything we deem desirable among men,we look upon the change as exceedingly advantageous to us and to our posterity, and we fix upon something that happened away back, as in some way or other being connected with this rise of prosperity. We find a race of men living in that day whom we claim as our fathers and grandfathers; they were iron men, they fought for the principle that they were contending for; and we understood that by what they then did it has followed that the degree of prosperity that we now enjoy has come to us. We hold this annual celebration [Independence Day] to remind ourselves of all the good done in this process of time of how it was done and who did it, and how we are historically connected with it; and we go from these meetings in better humor with ourselves ... We have besides these men -- descended by blood from our ancestors -- among us perhaps half our people who are not descendants at all of these men, they are men who have come ... or whose ancestors have come ... finding themselves our equals in all things.
[W]hen they look through that old Declaration of Independence they find that those old men say that "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal," and then they feel that that moral sentiment taught in that day evidences their relation to those men, that it is the father of all moral principle in them, and that they have a right to claim it as though they were blood of the blood, and flesh of the flesh of the men who wrote that Declaration, and so they are.

...[L]et us discard all this quibbling about this man and the other man -- this race and that race and the other race being inferior, and therefore they must be placed in an inferior position -- discarding our standard that we have left us. Let us discard all these things, and unite as one people throughout this land, until we shall once more stand up declaring that all men are created equal."

Blogger VD February 26, 2016 6:34 PM  

Vox is himself a non-white expat living in Italy. And I'm pretty sure most commentators here don't have ancestors dating back to the Revolutionary War, either.

Actually, my ancestors on both sides do. The Red side is Native, obviously, and on the other side, my several times great-grandfather died at Valley Forge.

Blogger VD February 26, 2016 6:37 PM  

If Sarah is wrong, she learned her error from Abe Lincoln.

Considering that he is the man who forcibly established the US empire, it's appropriate. And notice this:

"Let us discard all these things, and unite as one people throughout this land."

That which is does not need to be discarded. And one does not need to call for that which is not.

Anonymous patrick kelly February 26, 2016 6:38 PM  

"Reasonable men can argue in good faith over the difference in judgment required, but it strikes me as the stance of an unreasonable man to insist that even to ask to have the argument is sufficient grounds for rejecting it."

Blech, barf..... the time for arguing is past, we were told to shut up and bend over, so it is now time for war.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan February 26, 2016 6:39 PM  

Both sides of my family pre-Rev war, I'm glad she follows the American tradition of telling the natives what they are and what they should do with their country. (this includes telling the red men)

Literally in my book told us she is but a clown who considers the SJWs as her moral authority.

You cannot argue with her you simply must disqualify what she holds as authority, then from there insert new authority.

Anonymous Philalethes February 26, 2016 6:44 PM  

@47, 55, 60

...if you would presume to lecture somebody who's greatx6 grandparents were born on US soil about what it means to be a true American...

We think our family surname came to Connecticut in the late 1600s (from England, of course – the surname is Anglo-Norman, while my maternal surname is British Celtic, so I guess I'm a pretty good example of American core stock), but have documentation only back to my 4x-great-grandfather, who was a farmer in New Jersey and fought in the War for Independence, wintered at Valley Forge, lost an eye at Germantown, etc. I have no children (one died in his teens), but my sister's and brother's grandchildren would be among those "who's greatx6 grandparents were born on US soil". Though of course it wasn't "US soil" until after Independence.

I went to Canada in 1967 to avoid impressment into a war which clearly had nothing to do with defending my hearth & home – and everything to do with endless profits for the political/financial class about which I had only a dim understanding at the time, but more now. (Despite that "Selective Service" is a clear violation of the 13th Amendment, I expected never to be able to return home.) I wrote back to "my" draft board in New York City (I'm a California native, but happened to turn 18 at the World SF Con in Seattle in 1961, and my next landing point was NYC, so that's where I was registered) – who I figured were probably mostly 2nd-generation Jewish immigrants from Eastern Europe – to tell them I didn't think they had any business telling me what being an American was all about.

Maybe they got it; anyway, as it turned out they never actually drafted me, and after spending a year in Canada which taught me I actually was an American (Canada was pleasant, but even then a pretty sheeplike culture, no Patrick Henrys there) I was able to come home. And gradually learned how little is left of what my ancestors had fought for.

Sarah seems like a nice girl, and I don't want her to feel unwelcome, but certainly I don't feel obliged to let her tell me what America is about. I haven't followed Donald Trump closely, so there's much I don't know about him; and I understand why many people are put off by his rough manner – but one thing is clear: he's an American Man. None of the rest of them are; even those who are not Cuban, or Jewish, or female (which covers all his serious competition at this point) have forgotten what being American once meant.

Blogger Steve Moss February 26, 2016 6:44 PM  

I'm skeptical of this hypothesis. The American Republic, the great experiment, was not founded by Native Americans. It was founded by immigrants to this continent from England, Scotland, Ireland, Germany, Holland, Sweden, French, etc. And Africans. Shortly after the founding, it was expanded to include Spain, Mexico, Indians, etc.

Yes, a nation is the people. The people possess a territory. But what unites them is the idea of the Republic.

Attempting to divorce the idea of America from the territory of America and from the people of America (including those who accept the ideals of America) mistakes the point. America, and the idea of America, is for those who want to be Americans.

Sarah Hoyt is a Portuguese immigrant. She is 100% American, not because of her birth, but because she chose to become American because she reveres the concept of the Republic.

My direct paternal ancestor immigrated to the USA (then the colonies) in the 1640s. I'm an American, because I was born here and I revere the concept of the Republic.

All those who immigrated to the USA between (and before) those two dates are also Americans, if they believe in the concept of America.

Being American is not about birth. It is about America. Many immigrants are 100% American.

The problem with immigration is not immigration per se, but we are bringing people into our borders who have not loyalty to the Republic or the idea of America.

My two cents.

Anonymous patrick kelly February 26, 2016 6:51 PM  

" It was founded by immigrants to this continent from England, Scotland, Ireland, Germany, Holland, Sweden, French, etc. And Africans."

Absolutely not. It was founded by explorers, settlers, warriors, fortune seekers, and conquerors, not fking immigrants. Definitely not looking for food stamps or section 8 housing. You think the Iroquois naturalized them and issued passports or something?

Blogger Gaiseric February 26, 2016 6:51 PM  

SteelPalm wrote:And I'm pretty sure most commentators here don't have ancestors dating back to the Revolutionary War, either.
Longer. And Francis "The Swamp Fox" Marion is one of my ancestors on one branch of the tree.

Blogger Salt February 26, 2016 6:52 PM  

We would like you to leave us our republic. We’d like to keep it.

There's a skeet/trap club in my hometown. My grandparents, then my parents, shot there. When I was in my late teens one man joined. He lived on the other side of the river. He was new to the area, an airline pilot. Within a few years the club was full of airline pilots. It looked kinda the same, people shot skeet and trap, but the chemestry changed, the club ran differently, and most of the once regulars sought elsewhere. Took quite a few years, but the invaders were eventually driven out.

Blogger Gaiseric February 26, 2016 6:53 PM  

J Melcher wrote:If Sarah is wrong, she learned her error from Abe Lincoln.
Too many of us had ancestors who fought for the Confederacy for you to get anywhere merely by quoting St. Lincoln.

Anonymous patrick kelly February 26, 2016 6:54 PM  

I forgot slaves and exiled criminals, so yeah, maybe a few immigrants in there somewhere.

Anonymous Philalethes February 26, 2016 6:56 PM  

@66 If Sarah is wrong, she learned her error from Abe Lincoln.

Would that be the same Abe Lincoln who declared in a speech in Congress ca. 1835 that any people has the right of secession – presumably in support of the Anglos in Texas who wanted to separate from Mexico (I have the quote somewhere, but no time to find it now)? Or the Lincoln who intended to ship all the blacks back to Africa because he didn't think the races could live together in peace? Eloquent he was, to be sure; "honest" he was not by any stretch.

Abe Lincoln and Franklin Roosevelt are the two men who did the most to destroy the Founders' dream. They weren't Americans either, but wannabe emperors. Of course, the American people let them get away with their crimes – just as the people of Rome and Athens allowed their worst elements to run away with their countries. So it goes.

Blogger Salt February 26, 2016 7:00 PM  

Steve Moss wrote:My two cents.

Value seems about right.

Blogger Gaiseric February 26, 2016 7:01 PM  

S1AL wrote:I'm sure you have an equally inventive explanation for why the Nordic peoples are historically irrelevant in the last 500 years.
Just as I'm sure you have an inventive explanation for how you got to 500 years by ignoring the fact that the Swedish Empire was a Great Power until the Great Northern War, right on the eve of the Seven Years War and American Independence.

Anonymous JamesD February 26, 2016 7:06 PM  

But here is the very important point so many people fail to understand: we're not the extremists. We're the only viable alternative to the extremists.
True

Blogger VD February 26, 2016 7:13 PM  

Sarah Hoyt is a Portuguese immigrant. She is 100% American, not because of her birth, but because she chose to become American because she reveres the concept of the Republic.

No, she is not. She's not American at all. She is a US citizen. There is a difference. For crying out loud, she loves Portugal. She talks about Portugal all the freaking time. She's Portuguese and she always will be.

To be American is to be the posterity of the Founding Fathers. They came right out and told you for whom the Constitution is established. Your position is literally anti-Constitutional and anti-American.

Blogger VD February 26, 2016 7:14 PM  

The problem with immigration is not immigration per se, but we are bringing people into our borders who have not loyalty to the Republic or the idea of America.

No, the problem with immigration is quantity. A very modest level of immigration can benefit a nation. Mass immigration is war.

Blogger Doom February 26, 2016 7:16 PM  

It's a tricky race you run. On one hand, I absolutely see that. In another I don't. I'll take you one your word that you are a breed too. As such, you and I are definitively, also, not of this new and united federation. In part, and always, outside and remnants. Actually, I am sort of told I am a man of no country, for not even the natives really want to claim me... unless they think there is money or power in it, much as slaves were counted when slavery was the law.

And, that really is true. Half native American, if through two tribes, and that excludes me from the Euro-American nation, and all others actually. Though that is quite different than those who come from nations other than European countries, true. Actually, I would say, at this point, even Europeans can't easily fit as Americans. Most of them don't have anything like true freedom, never have. They have always been dependent, and willfully, on church or government. Now that one murdered the other, all they have is state.

Blogger VD February 26, 2016 7:16 PM  

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

The blessings of Liberty are not for anyone who shows up. They aren't for the world. They are for "ourselves and our Posterity".

Posterity: 1. succeeding generations. 2. all descendants of one person

You believe a myth. A 20th century lie.

Blogger VD February 26, 2016 7:19 PM  

As such, you and I are definitively, also, not of this new and united federation. In part, and always, outside and remnants.

Exactly. Which is why I have no stake and no sensitivities to bruise. I can simply speak the truth as best I see it.

Anonymous JamesD February 26, 2016 7:19 PM  

“The fence you have been straddling....is the coward's formula contained in the sentence: 'But we don't have to go to extremes!' The extreme you have always struggled to avoid is the recognition that reality is final, that A is A and that the truth is true. A moral code impossible to practice, a code that demands imperfection or death, has taught you to dissolve all ideas in fog, to permit no firm definitions, to regards any concept as approximate and any rule of conduct as elastic, to hedge on any principle, to compromise on any value, to take the middle of any road.”

Anonymous Red February 26, 2016 7:27 PM  

Hey Ace has gone full established shill on us claiming Trump was never against letting Syrian refugees in before SanB territory attacks:
http://acecomments.mu.nu/?post=361790

The man might as well be a wikipedia editor with that level of rewriting history.

Blogger Gaiseric February 26, 2016 7:28 PM  

You believe a myth. A 20th century lie.

I didn't realize until recently that Emma Lazarus was a Sephardic Jew. Originally from Portugal, by odd coincidence.

Blogger Gaiseric February 26, 2016 7:29 PM  

Nitpick; she was born and raised in NYC. Her family was from Portugal originally.

Anonymous Takin' a Look February 26, 2016 7:41 PM  

Anybody see the Joe Biden interview in Mexico last night? Dum-Dum is trying to reassure the natives who get remittances from their relatives el norte AND the de facto Aristocracy that "it is only a small,radical,fringe of [white trash] americans that hate you". Ha-HA! Vicente Fox already assumed the sale when he said "We aren't paying for a fucking wall!" It may all be TPTB theater, but I got the popcorn and butter. I expect the Mexicans are pissed at the idea of not just losing all that Gringo dough, but of getting all their welfare trash dumped back on them.

Blogger CM February 26, 2016 7:45 PM  

My response is you can be adopted, but you must become as if you were biological. An old woman and man are now your grandparents. You are learning the culture and heritage of your adopted parents, not your native one.

"Your God will be my God; your people, my people; your ways, my ways."

A great adoption story.

Blogger Gaiseric February 26, 2016 7:52 PM  

OT: Soldiers of Allah formed to counter Sons of Odin in Norway. "Regular street battles could soon be a reality in Norway. Soldiers of Odin against Soldiers of Allah, with the police in between. However, it will most likely not be started by the Soldiers of Odin, but the rabid Islamists in the soldiers of Allah. And then, even though the Soldiers of Odin claim to be a peaceful group, the Viking has clearly awaken… And being attacked by Islamists, they will have no other choice than to go berserk again, after a thousand years in hibernation,"

http://www.infowars.com/islamists-form-group-to-counter-soldiers-of-odin-in-norway/

Blogger SciVo February 26, 2016 7:52 PM  

The argument that "race" doesn't exist is based on the fact that it is a spectrum, both genetically and morphologically, so the divisions are technically arbitrary. However, that is like arguing that colors don't exist because color is a spectrum where each wavelength of light flows smoothly into the next, but even more retarded. It's like arguing that colors don't exist while staring at a distorted rainbow with five oversized bands of blue, green, yellow, orange and red.

Blogger Salt February 26, 2016 7:52 PM  

Gaiseric wrote:Nitpick; she was born and raised in NYC. Her family was from Portugal originally.

"Hoyt was born on November 18, 1962 in the village of Granja, Águas Santas, Maia near Porto, Portugal, a major port city on the Atlantic coast." - Wikipedia

Blogger Gaiseric February 26, 2016 7:57 PM  

I'm talking about Emma Lazarus. The author of the Statue of Liberty poem.

Anonymous PhillipGeorge©2016 February 26, 2016 8:08 PM  

Race doesn't exist. We are all one species. Tribes/ ethnos exist. Family groups.

These can and do have different attributes.

The lesson Vox wants to stick is "we" should look after our own children first. Stick that landing. Sure up that base. Having looked after your own children spread the crumbs.

It's logical, rational, biblical, it's even secular.

Don't do charity with other people's money. That, once and for all, should be nailed as "stealing".

Charity and theft are not synonyms. If you want to give away all your own money to someone else's children that's your choice in life. But let's start calling pathological virtue signalling social justice theft the theft that it is.

Davy Crockett nailed it. We can not do charity with other people's money. Listen to him.

Anonymous BigGayKoranBurner February 26, 2016 8:14 PM  

If moderates only shoot at the right there is no reason not to shoot back. There are even a few puffs that can understand that, despite a 40yo Hispanic RN with a masters degree acting like a middle school girl.

Defend and imaginary “white race?” Screw that

If Barney Frank and Lehna Dunham want white children to exist in the future more than you do, you might be a cuck.

The parallels with those who will vote for the Berne is an exercise for the student

I almost felt sorry for the guy driving the first car I saw with a Bern sticker on it.

Ever hear the joke about why blacks can't join the Klan? It is because they can't pass the FBI's background check

Ha equality prove u wrong here be 2 of them http://www.youngcons.com/kkk-members-in-viral-picture-supporting-trump-are-actually-black/

Sarah and her kind believe they are the necessary ingredient to "control" the reaction

Sarah flee die verse city, even some puffs have seen the graffiti on the smashed cop cars.

They're reflexively calling us racists, Nazis, etc. because facts and reasoning scare them

They need to understand that the goalposts keep moving, I have been called a bigot for not wanting to have sex with a guy that is HIV+. Just imagine what he would think about my realism.

I wonder if she realizes what side of that wall she is on?

Isnt the wall when women start to age rapidly?

Blogger James Dixon February 26, 2016 8:32 PM  

> And I'm pretty sure most commentators here don't have ancestors dating back to the Revolutionary War, either.

You're welcome to come by some weekend and I can take you on a drive to see the relevant gravestones.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash February 26, 2016 8:37 PM  

PhillipGeorge©2016 wrote:Race doesn't exist. We are all one species. Tribes/ ethnos exist. Family groups.


What a load of shit. You might as well say dog breeds don't exist. All dogs have a common ancestor much more recently than the various races.
Race doesn't exist, when, and only when, an anti-racist is losing an argument with a realist.

It's a fucking dodge. A dishonest invitation to go squirrelling off down a stupid side-road in which the opponent will never acknowledge your argument, let alone answer it, while preening and puffing about his more developed understanding of genetics. And it's not even a clever dodge. It's a simple refusal to address the issue at hand, that nobody actually believes.

Stop saying 50IQ stupid shit Phil

Anonymous BGKB February 26, 2016 8:40 PM  

I'm sure you have an equally inventive explanation for why the Nordic peoples are historically irrelevant in the last 500 years.

Same as the Eskimos they live in a harsh K environment but the build/plan/store potential never left them enough peaceful time to make advancements.

absolute idiots who think they're smart and mindlessly parrot Vox's views without comprehending the underlying reasoning

Just so you know I think gay marriage is a bad idea because you guys let feminists devalue marriage to the point it is not worth the risk of alimony.

Black neighborhoods then were safer than white neighborhoods today

Please list the zip codes of these non Hispanic-white neighborhoods that are more dangerous than old time black hoods.

just north of 200 mil. Now it's somewhere around 333 mil. Are they just unable to understand math?

If they could understand math, but not profit from destruction they wouldn't be liberals. Much of human history can be summed up as Elite looters destroy economies & loot hard assets, sometimes using war as cover.

Blogger No Thank you February 26, 2016 8:41 PM  

Anyone have a link to the page of this pos written by Sarah?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash February 26, 2016 8:48 PM  

SteelPalm wrote:And I'm pretty sure most commentators here don't have ancestors dating back to the Revolutionary War, either.

Got me. My 4xGreat grandfather came in 1795, on the run from the British Army after being one of the leaders of the failed Irish Rebellion of 1793. He had to cross the Atlantic in a fish barrel. So, no, I have no stake in this country. Just an immigrant.
He wrote in the Family Bible "The Irish can go hang. They prefer having good masters to being free men."

Blogger Noah B February 26, 2016 8:50 PM  

And I'm pretty sure most commentators here don't have ancestors dating back to the Revolutionary War, either.

Consider that the number of ancestors one has in a previous generations is 2^n (before removing duplicates), with n being the number of generations previous. If you go back 9 generations, the probability that at least one of those 512 people was here at the time of the American Revolution is high. I'd say it's a near certainty that the majority of readers who live in the US do have at least one relative who lived here at the time of the Revolution.

Anonymous Takin' a Look February 26, 2016 8:50 PM  

@ BGKB

:-P lmao!!!!

@ Snidely Whiplash

Agreed. Should !Science!!! ever look at *Homo sapiens* dispassionately, we would be regarded as a species-complex. There is as much genetic differences between modern humans as between *Canis*, *Cervus*, *Anas*, *Gorilla* and *Pan*.

Either wolves, dogs, coyotes, ethiopian and golden jackals are separate species/subspecies or one species with many races/morphs.

Mallards are interfertile with pintails. Bonobos with chimps. Lowland gorillas with mountain gorillas. Bornean orangutans with sumatran orangs. Sika deer with wapiti. All are recognizably distinct genetic groupings usually given species or at the very least subspecies status.

Anonymous PhillipGeorge©2016 February 26, 2016 8:57 PM  

Mr Whiplash use a brain.
When race doesn't exist neither does racism.
Species means interbreed.
Humans are one species.

Its also the argument par excellence against macro morphic entropy lowering biological evolution.

Spend your quisling time researching Mitrochondrial DNA rates of divergence.

Every human on earth recently passed through the legs of one woman. Recently.

And we all got off exactly one migrational wave vessel called the Ark. Do the maths, do the archaeology.

And yes, you are a very funny man.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents February 26, 2016 8:58 PM  

Oh, for heaven’s sake people, we’re just trying to understand why otherwise rational people would respond so irrationally. We would like you to leave us our republic.

What republic? That's been dead for a long time, killed by migrants.

As for "trying to understand", you can't understand people you refuse to listen to.

Talking to moderates is like talking to a wall. But more frustrating.

Blogger Billy February 26, 2016 8:59 PM  

@44 "I'm sure you have an equally inventive explanation for why the Nordic peoples are historically irrelevant in the last 500 years."

Have you never heard of the Germans? They're of Nordic stock, along with Brits and many others.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_race#Defining_characteristics

Blogger Zimri February 26, 2016 9:01 PM  

"And I'm pretty sure most commentators here don't have ancestors dating back to the Revolutionary War, either."

I might have relatives who came over to *fight* those uppity colonials. Including that great man who was the last to approach Capitol Hill with honest intentions, in 1814.

Blogger Gaiseric February 26, 2016 9:05 PM  

Davy Crockett nailed it. We can not do charity with other people's money. Listen to him.

The credit truly belongs to Horatio Bunce, according to Crockett's biographer. But the principle is a sound one, for sure.

Personally, my favorite Crockett quote is, "You may all go to hell, and I will go to Texas." But then again, I'm an ethnic Texan, a descendant of those same truculent Borderlanders as Crockett himself.

Blogger Gaiseric February 26, 2016 9:06 PM  

Spend your quisling time researching Mitrochondrial DNA rates of divergence.

What in the world is quisling time? Snidely is no quisling.

Anonymous Stephen J. February 26, 2016 9:09 PM  

For the record: I was the one who weaselishly carped about Vox and this blog in the first post quoted, the one to which Sarah responded, because I did not have the fortitude to disagree openly with him and the community here. This was an unworthy act of cowardice. I hereby formally apologize to Vox and to the Ilk.

Anonymous Elite Rope February 26, 2016 9:11 PM  

@106

And yet, why were the Canaanites so different from the Egyptians, or the Hebrews?

Why were the Philistines nothing like the Greeks?

And why was ancient China nothing at all like Rome?

Here's a hint, Phillip: Isaac and Ishmael were half-brothers; they had the same father. They were also raised by the same women. Yet, their descendants were the enemies of each other and bred separately. Now multiply that by thousands of generations.

That's race. "Family groups" as you call them diverged over millennia, and sets of them developed common characteristics that are easily perceived as defining the set to which they belong. That's race.

Anonymous Takin' a Look February 26, 2016 9:14 PM  

@ PhilipGeorge

Face/palm. You're a "Kind" Thumper aren't you?

The "one woman" is a dead issue. Y chromosones and basic nuclear DNA already show -huge- divergences going as far back as a million years. We interbred with neanderthaloids (Amuds,Mousterians,Denisovians) Erectoids and others. Mitochondrial Eve is simply the "winner" as in no other mitochondria were passed on outside of Africa. Simply put, no more daughters but "Eve's", but PLENTY of sons in the form of Y-chromosome divergences. Nuclear DNA is even more ancient and divergent.

Blogger Gaiseric February 26, 2016 9:14 PM  

Who is the pasty white middle aged guy, and why is he not as worthy of respect as Thomas Sowell? Trump is the first who came to mind, but middle-aged is generous. Vox isn't pasty or white. Who's she even talking about?

And I like Thomas Sowell well enough, but c'mon. He's not that special.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash February 26, 2016 9:17 PM  

Sorry Phil, I won't refuse to speak the truth in order to avoid accusations of racism. Hell, any more, I wouldn't even waste a smile at someone to avoid accusations of racism, sexism, misogyny, whatever the hell they want to accuse me of.

Races exist, deal with it. You can wave the bible around all you want, but the bible also not only acknowledges races, it tells us the origins of them.

If you can look at an Aborigine and not see a different race, you're a man who could look at a Beagle and a Rottweiler and declare that there is no such thing as dog breeds.

Don't make yourself stupid.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash February 26, 2016 9:29 PM  

"Nordic stock"
Swedes
Danes
Norges
Icelanders
Angles/Saxons/Mercians
Saxischers (About 1/3 of modern German population)
Normans
Yorkshiremen/Northumbrians/Lowland Scots

Yep, pretty much nothing at all in the last 500 years. England, Germany, Northern France, Scotland, the Scandinavian countries. Just been lying fallow.

Anonymous Elite Rope February 26, 2016 9:30 PM  

Phillip is one of these people that instinctively associate the use of the word "race" with pure evil. But Christians are good! Therefore, Christians shouldn't think about race at all.

No, Phillip, race is a descriptive concept, not an obscene epithet.

Anonymous Clay February 26, 2016 9:32 PM  

This so simple, it's stoopid. Even an idiot can go to Ancestry.Com

The Genome Project has been sent to the graveyard of the Bell Curve.

Anonymous Takin' a Look February 26, 2016 9:33 PM  

The Wholphin

This hybrid not only was fertile, so was her calf. False-killer whales and bottle-nosed dolphins are -very- distinct both in genetics and phenotypes, yet wild hybrids are not uncommon. It is literally as if a wolf mated with a fox.

Blogger Escoffier February 26, 2016 9:37 PM  

Just to expand on Ted's post about Ace of spades?

Ace is the quintessential squishy moderate. I seem to recall him describing himself in those exact terms at some point and that's why he doesn't get it in much the same way Sarah Hoyt doesn't. Ace tends to run five to ten years behind actual conservatives because he just doesn't understand it and it's alien to him. It took him half of forever to 'get'that illegal immigration was a bad thing.

Anonymous Clay February 26, 2016 9:38 PM  

So. What is that supposed to fucking mean?

Anonymous Clay February 26, 2016 9:44 PM  

BTW...I was actually addressing the "Takin' a look's" stupidity

Anonymous Takin' a Look February 26, 2016 9:46 PM  

@ Clay

On the Left is Daddy, Right is Mommy

On the bottom is Baby Wolphin!

OpenID sigbouncer February 26, 2016 9:48 PM  

"Sorry Phil, I won't refuse to speak the truth in order to avoid accusations of racism. Hell, any more, I wouldn't even waste a smile at someone to avoid accusations of racism, sexism, misogyny, whatever the hell they want to accuse me of."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsoSVdJikDw

Blogger Cecil Henry February 26, 2016 9:49 PM  

White people, Anglo saxons or an other white ethnic group are never imaginary when the pejoratives, attacks and condemnatons justified or not come forth.

But when it a question of interests, rights, accomplishments and future... suddenly these Whites are all 'imaginary'.

The doublespeak and hypocrisy are contemptible.

Anonymous Takin' a Look February 26, 2016 9:52 PM  

@ Clay, according to you and PhilipGeorge. Since false killer whales and bottle-nose dolphins can produce fertile hybrids. They must be regarded as the same species with absolutely no categorical differences.

"We are all one race, the Wholphin race" ;-)

OpenID sigbouncer February 26, 2016 9:56 PM  

"For the record: I was the one who weaselishly carped about Vox and this blog in the first post quoted, the one to which Sarah responded, because I did not have the fortitude to disagree openly with him and the community here. This was an unworthy act of cowardice. I hereby formally apologize to Vox and to the Ilk"

Don't let fears choose your destiny.

Blogger Rusty Fife February 26, 2016 10:03 PM  

PhillipGeorge©2016 wrote:Mr Whiplash use a brain.

When race doesn't exist neither does racism.

Species means interbreed.

Humans are one species.

Its also the argument par excellence against macro morphic entropy lowering biological evolution.

Spend your quisling time researching Mitrochondrial DNA rates of divergence.

Every human on earth recently passed through the legs of one woman. Recently.

And we all got off exactly one migrational wave vessel called the Ark. Do the maths, do the archaeology.

And yes, you are a very funny man.


Pepare for your mind to be blown:
http://www.macroevolution.net/hybrid-hypothesis-contents.html

HT Aeoli Pera

*that site caused my brain to over heat. I couldn't look away; like a trainwreck. Oink.

Blogger James Dixon February 26, 2016 10:07 PM  

> Humans are one species.

But not one race. Race and species are not the same thing.

Blogger Rusty Fife February 26, 2016 10:08 PM  

Clay wrote:BTW...I was actually addressing the "Takin' a look's" stupidity

Answered @128

Blogger Crude February 26, 2016 10:09 PM  

Ace is the quintessential squishy moderate. I seem to recall him describing himself in those exact terms at some point and that's why he doesn't get it in much the same way Sarah Hoyt doesn't.

Two things made me really skeptical of Ace.

* His announcing, more than once, about how he had lied on behalf of the GOP in the past, selling angles on stories he didn't buy because he thought 'that's what we wanted' and 'that's what he was supposed to do' for the purposes of GOP unity, etc, but how he was over that and now, fuck the establishment. The whole thing came across as 'Ace has built up way too much bad cred by being an obvious shill, so this is his rinse and repeat moment'.

* Right at the Charleston shootings, telling everyone that black people are going to be really angry at white people for a while over this, and to be good and be quiet and don't fight back. Just take it, because they feel really emotional and angry right now, and that's understandable. People called him out in the comments about this and his response was 'Well sorry for being mature and understanding when people feel trauma', in essence.

Fuck both attitudes.

Blogger Steve Moss February 26, 2016 10:18 PM  

Absolutely not. It was founded by explorers, settlers, warriors, fortune seekers, and conquerors, not fking immigrants. Definitely not looking for food stamps or section 8 housing. You think the Iroquois naturalized them and issued passports or something? Absolutely not. It was founded by explorers, settlers, warriors, fortune seekers, and conquerors, not fking immigrants. Definitely not looking for food stamps or section 8 housing. You think the Iroquois naturalized them and issued passports or something?

I agree in general concept. The original colonists were descendants of rebels, criminals, religious fanatics, etc. None of which precludes them from being immigrants (a person who travels to live permanently in another country)

No, she is not. She's not American at all. She is a US citizen. There is a difference. For crying out loud, she loves Portugal. She talks about Portugal all the freaking time. She's Portuguese and she always will be.

To be American is to be the posterity of the Founding Fathers. They came right out and told you for whom the Constitution is established. Your position is literally anti-Constitutional and anti-American.


I agree that one can be a US citizen without being an American. I think that Syed Farook would be a good example of this.

Sarah Hoyt is a poor example to the contrary. She is both a US citizen and an American. While she may love Portugal (which is understandable as it is the land of her youth), her writings are clear that her loyalty is to the USA.

No, the problem with immigration is quantity. A very modest level of immigration can benefit a nation. Mass immigration is war.

I don’t necessarily disagree with this, though I would phrase the problem as one of quantity over quality. A million productive, law abiding, loyal immigrants who are dedicated to the ideals of the USA would be a definite benefit and are as real Americans as you or I. A million immigrants who refuse to relinquish their culture and/or whose only motive to migrate are economic benefits are not Americans, regardless of their citizenship status.

The blessings of Liberty are not for anyone who shows up. They aren't for the world. They are for "ourselves and our Posterity".

Posterity: 1. succeeding generations. 2. all descendants of one person

You believe a myth. A 20th century lie.


Per Meriam Webster:
1: the offspring of one progenitor to the furthest generation
2: all future generations

Posterity is not merely limited to one’s descendants. And considering the Founding Fathers actively encouraged immigration into the USA (3.9 million citizens as of 1790, 5.3 million as of 1800, 7.2 million as of 1810, etc.) and vested them with all rights of citizenship, I believe the evidence indicates they intended that the benefits of the Constitution to apply to existing citizens, the newly arrived immigrants, and the posterity of both.

Anonymous JRL February 26, 2016 10:20 PM  

Vox, I appreciate your reference to the preamble - it's a powerful clarification. America was for the benefit of the founders' posterity and any immigration should have been to the benefit of that posterity. Anyone who denies that is not being honest.

I don't know whether I can claim to be an American in that sense or not. I'm not that well versed on my ancestry.

As I think about it, if I'm not, it makes me value and respect what my ancestors gained through immigration in a fresh way. It puts those who despise their own country in an even viler light to me.

On the other hand, maybe I am. In that case I sneer haughtily at you bloody immigrant bastards.

Ah well, I'm getting old and sentimental (still younger than you Vox, ya old fart).

Blogger Michael O'Duibhir February 26, 2016 10:30 PM  

"And Trump will not be Obama's third term. I don't know what he will be, but he won't be that."

He might be worse. This guy wants to rule the world--permanently. I would ask why folks don't see that but I already know the answer: They so desperately want somebody different from what they've been getting for so long that they WANT to believe that The Donald is going to be the change they've been hoping for. Trump knows this. He's playing on it. Looks like we're cooked.

Blogger S1AL February 26, 2016 10:32 PM  

Re: Nordic People group - This is what happens when you use cultural ethnic groupings from the 1800's of y-DNA haplogroups: you make dumb mistakes. Barring minor admixture in Southeast England and the very northern parts of mainland Europe, the Nordic peoples are, in fact, confined to Scandinavia.

Additionally, Sweden (the most relevant Nordic country) was no more relevant than Spain or Portugal during its high point. So you're left to either retract the original statement or agree with me.

And that nonsense is why the race whining annoys me to no end.

Mr. Rational - I like this as a grouped source: http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/portuguese.html

You could also just look at the history of the Iberian peninsula and come to the same conclusion.

As to the "white race" - it's as silly and imaginary as the "black race" or "Asian race." At that point you're talking about 40+% of HBD, which is meaningless. The group behaviors of my French, German, Irish, and Dutch ancestors vary by massive amounts. They're not one race.

Anonymous Brick Hardslab February 26, 2016 10:36 PM  

Steve Moss wrote:Absolutely not. It was founded by explorers, settlers, warriors, fortune seekers, and conquerors, not fking immigrants. Definitely not looking for food stamps or section 8 housing. You think the Iroquois naturalized them and issued passports or something? Absolutely not. It was founded by explorers, settlers, warriors, fortune seekers, and conquerors, not fking immigrants. Definitely not looking for food stamps or section 8 housing. You think the Iroquois naturalized them and issued passports or something?

I agree in general concept. The original colonists were descendants of rebels, criminals, religious fanatics, etc. None of which precludes them from being immigrants (a person who travels to live permanently in another country)

No, she is not. She's not American at all. She is a US citizen. There is a difference. For crying out loud, she loves Portugal. She talks about Portugal all the freaking time. She's Portuguese and she always will be.

To be American is to be the posterity of the Founding Fathers. They came right out and told you for whom the Constitution is established. Your position is literally anti-Constitutional and anti-American.


I agree that one can be a US citizen without being an American. I think that Syed Farook would be a good example of this.

Sarah Hoyt is a poor example to the contrary. She is both a US citizen and an American. While she may love Portugal (which is understandable as it is the land of her youth), her writings are clear that her loyalty is to the USA.

No, the problem with immigration is quantity. A very modest level of immigration can benefit a nation. Mass immigration is war.

I don’t necessarily disagree with this, though I would phrase the problem as one of quantity over quality. A million productive, law abiding, loyal immigrants who are dedicated to the ideals of the USA would be a definite benefit and are as real Americans as you or I. A million immigrants who refuse to relinquish their culture and/or whose only motive to migrate are economic benefits are not Americans, regardless of their citizenship status.

The blessings of Liberty are not for anyone who shows up. They aren't for the world. They are for "ourselves and our Posterity".

Posterity: 1. succeeding generations. 2. all descendants of one person

You believe a myth. A 20th century lie.


Per Meriam Webster:

1: the offspring of one progenitor to the furthest generation

2: all future generations

Posterity is not merely limited to one’s descendants. And considering the Founding Fathers actively encouraged immigration into the USA (3.9 million citizens as of 1790, 5.3 million as of 1800, 7.2 million as of 1810, etc.) and vested them with all rights of citizenship, I believe the evidence indicates they intended that the benefits of the Constitution to apply to existing citizens, the newly arrived immigrants, and the posterity of both.


We need no more immigrants. Full up. No more room. We have the third largest population of any nation on Earth. No. Thank. You. I don't care if it 100 George Washingtons taken from alternate timelines. No. Once we get our population down to a reasonable level again we can talk about it. Say in a 100 years or so.

Blogger Dexter February 26, 2016 10:36 PM  

I can't remember. Did Vox ever say anything along the lines of “Shoot the Moderates”? My recollection is that he noted that the moderates are shooting at us, which is a quite different thing.

Not that I'm against shooting the moderates... they fired first.

Blogger Dexter February 26, 2016 10:38 PM  

to these cucks and progs, it's always 1933

If only.

I've got my jackboots all polished and ready to go.

Anonymous Brick Hardslab February 26, 2016 10:39 PM  

S1AL wrote:Re: Nordic People group - This is what happens when you use cultural ethnic groupings from the 1800's of y-DNA haplogroups: you make dumb mistakes. Barring minor admixture in Southeast England and the very northern parts of mainland Europe, the Nordic peoples are, in fact, confined to Scandinavia.

Additionally, Sweden (the most relevant Nordic country) was no more relevant than Spain or Portugal during its high point. So you're left to either retract the original statement or agree with me.

And that nonsense is why the race whining annoys me to no end.

Mr. Rational - I like this as a grouped source: http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/portuguese.html

You could also just look at the history of the Iberian peninsula and come to the same conclusion.

As to the "white race" - it's as silly and imaginary as the "black race" or "Asian race." At that point you're talking about 40+% of HBD, which is meaningless. The group behaviors of my French, German, Irish, and Dutch ancestors vary by massive amounts. They're not one race.
Yeah who are we going to believe, you or our lying eyes?

Anonymous Elite Rope February 26, 2016 10:40 PM  

Michael O'Duibhir wrote:He might be worse. This guy wants to rule the world--permanently.

Has it occurred to you that none of us really gives a shit if that happens?

If this guy is even half of who he claims to be, hell, we wouldn't mind him being God Emperor of Trumperica.

Blogger Were-Puppy February 26, 2016 10:43 PM  

@76 Gaiseric

Too many of us had ancestors who fought for the Confederacy for you to get anywhere merely by quoting St. Lincoln.
---

From what I am hearing at least one side goes back into the 1600s.

Blogger Rusty Fife February 26, 2016 10:43 PM  

S1AL wrote:As to the "white race" - it's as silly and imaginary as the "black race" or "Asian race." At that point you're talking about 40+% of HBD, which is meaningless. The group behaviors of my French, German, Irish, and Dutch ancestors vary by massive amounts. They're not one race.

Exactly. It's like none of these guys has trained gun dogs. Labs are wired completely different from a GSP. Boy howdy will they breed if you let 'em.

Blogger S1AL February 26, 2016 10:44 PM  

"Yeah who are we going to believe, you or our lying eyes?"

I don't particularly. I've presented arguments and evidence. Come to whatever conclusion you see fit.

But if you're just going to make crap up, I'm going to point it out.

Blogger Were-Puppy February 26, 2016 10:48 PM  

@91 Takin' a Look
It may all be TPTB theater, but I got the popcorn and butter.
--

If its theater, it's a damn good show isn't it?

Blogger Were-Puppy February 26, 2016 10:49 PM  

@92 CM
"Your God will be my God; your people, my people; your ways, my ways."
---

Thanks to the Cucksters, this is the exact opposite of what is happening

Blogger Were-Puppy February 26, 2016 10:51 PM  

@93 Gaiseric
OT: Soldiers of Allah formed to counter Sons of Odin in Norway.
---

Well, if the rags are going to start wearing uniforms, that will make it easier to single out the ones that need dealt with first.

Anonymous PhillipGeorge©2016 February 26, 2016 10:52 PM  

Thanks Rusty, I haven't the time in these next fifteen minutes to debunk that site but suffice to say that viruses are dead stuff wrapped in a protein and they can infect, point mutate different species in similar ways.

the fact that pig insulin might resemble human insulin is simply a fact that all mammalian life requires similar Krebs cycle functional features.

Its an argument for a common designer rather than common ancestor.

the force majeure argument is genetic entropy. Everything is dying, even "super bugs"; the entropy heat death clock is firmly affixed to creation. And everyone's time is running out. Though I'm not opposed to rebuilding bits of Christendom where inroads can be cut.

Blogger Dr. Mabuse February 26, 2016 10:54 PM  

Ace is the quintessential squishy moderate. I seem to recall him describing himself in those exact terms at some point and that's why he doesn't get it in much the same way Sarah Hoyt doesn't

I've thought of Ace as a good guy for years. He *seems* to get it, but then he loses his nerve. Exactly one month ago he wrote that he would under no circumstances vote for Rubio, because even if he lost the election, it would be worse for the GOPe to win, and that's what would happen if conservatives let them get away with foisting a pro-amnesty sellout as the candidate.

Today he writes,

>>> So are we still burning it down or what?

i'm not in favor of that any more. A while back I wondered "Would it be enough to just scare the shit out of them?" At that time I thought, "No, it's not enough; they'll recover from having the shit scared out of them and go back to business as usual in a week."

But this guy is convincing me he's such a complete disaster now I think I have to settle for just scaring them.


I think Trump supporters are already leaving his site. They don't make big dramatic speeches before slamming the door, but they just don't stay to be berated anymore

Blogger S1AL February 26, 2016 10:57 PM  

BTW, for those of you who want to see what the haplogroup distribution in Europe looks like: http://brilliantmaps.com/the-genetic-map-of-europe/

So tell me, what's more similar to Britain and Germany: Spain or Sweden? Come on now, don't be shy.

Blogger Blume February 26, 2016 10:58 PM  

John Hancock is a distant uncle.

Blogger Rusty Fife February 26, 2016 10:58 PM  

PhillipGeorge©2016 wrote:the force majeure argument is genetic entropy. Everything is dying, even "super bugs"; the entropy heat death clock is firmly affixed to creation. And everyone's time is running out. Though I'm not opposed to rebuilding bits of Christendom where inroads can be cut.

I'm a big fan of entropy arguments and agree the Ice Giants are going to win the Battle of Ragnorak (heat death).

I think the wolphin is going to cause you problems with debunking hybridization. The best part is that it us testable...given enough lack of morals.

Blogger Were-Puppy February 26, 2016 10:59 PM  

@100 Snidely Whiplash
Stop saying 50IQ stupid shit Phil
---

Speaking of IQ, I saw this link posted at breitbart and it has all these nations ranked by IQ

Anonymous FP February 26, 2016 11:00 PM  

"Look, immigration is not even a real thing anymore."

Sarah has told us all about her challenges growing up among lefties in Portugal. Let me tell her of my life experiences growing up in California in the 80s-early 90s, raised as a moderate/RINO CA republican type.

In 1970, CA was 78% white. In 2010, it was 38% white. Immigration matters. But keep virtue signaling about the Sowell's of the world to prove you're not raciss. Get a few pictures together of your group in Gadsden t-shirts at a Glen Beck rally while you're at it. Then everyone will know you're not racists! They'll take you seriously then! Yes, sirree bub!

Blogger Crude February 26, 2016 11:02 PM  

i'm not in favor of that any more. A while back I wondered "Would it be enough to just scare the shit out of them?" At that time I thought, "No, it's not enough; they'll recover from having the shit scared out of them and go back to business as usual in a week."

Don't worry. He'll be back in burn-it-down mode in the event of a Trump nomination. At which point, his preferred method of 'burning it down' will be 'vote for this third party candidate heavily funded by Goldman Sachs'.

Blogger Michael O'Duibhir February 26, 2016 11:23 PM  

@140 "Has it occurred to you that none of us really gives a shit if that happens?"

It has occurred to me. People can be intelligent and suckers at the same time.

Blogger bob k. mando February 26, 2016 11:39 PM  

72. Steve Moss February 26, 2016 6:44 PM
Sarah Hoyt is a Portuguese immigrant. She is 100% American, not because of her birth, but because she chose to become American because she reveres the concept of the Republic.



fuck you and fuck Sarah.

enforcing the immigration laws, indeed, shutting immigration down and EXPELLING the current illegals are wholly American concepts and ideals.

ANYONE who says otherwise is a lying sack of shit who adheres to ANTI-American ideals.

Blogger Steve Moss February 26, 2016 11:45 PM  

Stay classy, bob k. mando.

And where did I say or ever imply that immigration laws shouldn't be enforced?

But keep setting up and knocking down those straw men. It'll do your self-esteem a world of good.

Blogger Steve Moss February 26, 2016 11:49 PM  

We need no more immigrants. Full up. No more room. We have the third largest population of any nation on Earth. No. Thank. You. I don't care if it 100 George Washingtons taken from alternate timelines. No. Once we get our population down to a reasonable level again we can talk about it. Say in a 100 years or so.

As a general matter, this is a perfectly reasonable position, though I would make an exception for 100 George Washingtons. Or Albert Einsteins, etc.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash February 27, 2016 12:08 AM  

Steve Moss wrote:her writings are clear that her loyalty is to the USA.

To the USA, not to the American People. My point precisely.

Anonymous Eric the Red February 27, 2016 12:31 AM  

Limits are the key. What are the limits on what someone believes? Where do they say 'this far and no further'?

Moderates like Hoyt have done very little in the way of honest introspection. What are they truly afraid of? They certainly don't seem to be afraid of the left. If they won't fight, then the only alternative is to acquiesce to creeping slavery. Middle ground exists only in their wishful thinking.

If I am an extremist, then what defines me as extreme? Is it sImply because I believe my enemy when he declares me to be such? At that point, I then decide to fight or to surrender. If I decide to fight, who are my allies? What kind of situations are acceptable, and which must be rejected? Preparation is essential. What limits will I accept on what is espoused and who is espousing it?

Sarah Hoyt does not represent any kind of middle way. Her fighting words are not believable. They're a pose, and therefore laughable. She and her kind have decided not to fight, but are too much the coward to admit it to themselves. It's easier for them to talk tough with their potential allies than to fight their actual enemies.

Blogger SteelPalm February 27, 2016 12:41 AM  

While most latched on to a throw-away sentence of mine, let me reiterate the main point;

Trump is very much a moderate. Sarah Hoyt and others should welcome him, provided he will do anywhere close to what he claims. (And is not a leftist double agent)

Trump merely wants to expel illegals and limit future immigration. His own wife is a first-generation legal immigrant.

Everyone in these comments can agree these are good steps, no?

And the more one suppresses sensible moderation, as exemplified by Trump, the worst the extremist backlash will inevitably be. Which Vox often notes.

Blogger Achilles February 27, 2016 12:50 AM  

Some of my ancestors arrived on the Mayflower and Hercules nearly 400 years ago. While I like Sarah Hoyt hearing her flippant remarks about immigration while our country slides into the abyss makes my blood boil. I'm reminded of the Kipling poem, "The Wrath of the Awakened Saxon."

Blogger SciVo February 27, 2016 1:09 AM  

@ Steve Moss:

Argument by definition is capitulation.

Anonymous Karl Rove, GOP political supergenius February 27, 2016 1:17 AM  

The white race is not imaginary. America as an Anglo-Saxon nation is not imaginary. What is imaginary is the "proposition nation" version of America that she, the Portuguese immigrant, erroneously believes America to be. Red Eagle and I cover this in moderate detail in Cuckservative: How "Conservatives" Destroyed America.


We should run Rubio and Cruz, because Cubans are Hispanic and Mexicans are Hispanic, and therefore are the same thing!


Put this in my intricate Nate Silver demographic computer model... (the science is settled like globo warmin)

da da da

bebe bebebe beep beep beep beep beep

bzzz boopy boop bah

...

...

OH FUCK, IT'S NOT WORKING.

Blogger SciVo February 27, 2016 1:19 AM  

@ S1AL: The group behaviors of my French, German, Irish, and Dutch ancestors vary by massive amounts. They're not one race.

That's like saying that green can't be a color because chartreuse and teal are so different.

Systems have subsystems and metasystems. Don't sperg out.

Anonymous Bobby Farr February 27, 2016 1:51 AM  

Ugh. Cannot believe people are still making the "Being American is just about, you know, loving America and working hard and stuff" argument. And without shame.

OpenID b1bae96e-6447-11e3-b6bb-000f20980440 February 27, 2016 2:04 AM  

Moderates like Hoyt have done very little in the way of honest introspection. What are they truly afraid of?

Because any serious introspection will tell her that as an immigrant she is automatically barred from ever being an American, and because she didn't even grow up in the US it will almost certainly exclude her children too because she won't be able to prevent the corrupting influence of the old country. She is falling prey to her baser women fear and is terrified of being excluded. So she has to create American as an idea/concept, because that is something she can be a part of.

---

When I said greatx6, I didn't mean to imply some sort of 200 year residency requirement, although I do clear that bar (one of my lines is 25 years away from 400). I actually think assimilation could happen if you are first generation born in the US as long as your parents can avoid the corrupting influences of the old country and you made a concerted effort to sacrifice for America.

But it would be tough, and I am automatically suspicious of anybody that doesn't have 3 of 4 grandparents born and raised in the US. And by US I mean US. Not New Tokyo, Little Havana, Mexico Norte, Deerbornistan, or any of the other numerous enclaves that exist within the boundaries of the United States.

Will Best

Blogger Groot February 27, 2016 2:39 AM  

@33. CarpeOro:
"Don't be shocked when the fringe bites back."

Sometimes, you have to go Beyond the Fringe.

"Peter Cook: I want you to lay down your life, Perkins. We need a futile gesture at this stage. It will raise the whole tone of the war. Get up in a crate, Perkins, pop over to Bremen, take a shufti, don't come back. Goodbye, Perkins. God, I wish I was going too.
"Jonathan Miller: Goodbye, sir — or is it — au revoir?
"Peter Cook: No, Perkins."

"Alan Bennett: I think there is a danger though of seeing the colour problem simply in terms of black and white.
"Peter Cook: It's a lot more complicated than that.
"Dudley Moore: I gather the Negroes are sweeping the country.
"Jonathan Miller: They are. It's one of the few jobs they can get."

Stevil, are you with me?

@61. Brick Hardslab:

The name of my next son will be Brick Hardslab Groot. All will bow before him, more masonry than tree, and he will eat cigars for the fiber, picking out tobacco from his teeth with a machete.

Anonymous Shut up rabbit February 27, 2016 3:14 AM  

I'm sure you have an equally inventive explanation for why the Nordic peoples are historically irrelevant in the last 500 years.

Me! Me! Me!

The best of them (best genetically adapted) left Scandinavia to establish the various Norman kingdoms who have constantly been at the forefront of the development of human civilisation ever since...

Easy one (almost as easy as refuting being called a racisss)

Anonymous Pete February 27, 2016 4:00 AM  

Would the Anglo-Saxon world be better off now, if America never helped destroy the British Empire? What do you guys think?

Anonymous Shut up rabbit February 27, 2016 4:02 AM  

119. Takin' a Look

This is the quintessential SJW argument. Rather than the exception defining the rule, for the infantile mindset the general rule must be extended to included the most extreme, bizarre and functionally irrelevant examples that can be found.

If the Wolphin was a viable biological option rather than a expression of a sick anomaly (a whale fucking a dolphin or vice-versa) it would replace its parental species in the biological nieche

This argument is akin to the tumblrettes claiming 57 varieties of gender must exist because a couple of the many sex chromosome abnormalities that occur in nature remain viable for a few months of outside the womb. cf the one, single, backward, isolated matriarchal society where women take multiple husbands "proving" that women should have multiple, simultaneous partners.

If your only example is a rare, bizarre, anomalous, "gotcha!" that virtually no one has ever heard about, face it; You are wrong.

Blogger SciVo February 27, 2016 4:29 AM  

@ Shut up rabbit:

Or in other words, the unique in no way disproves the ubiquitous.

Anonymous Bobby Farr February 27, 2016 5:03 AM  

@170 No, we'd be better off if the British hadn't destroyed the German Empire and if the US hadn't been dragged into helping them do so.

Anonymous Shut up rabbit February 27, 2016 5:38 AM  

@172. SciVo
Much more succinct (but I had a load of adjectives I had to get rid of)

Anonymous Unamused Flyover Resident February 27, 2016 6:22 AM  

If your only example is a rare, bizarre, anomalous, "gotcha!" that virtually no one has ever heard about, face it; You are wrong.

So, because wolphins aren't ubiquitous "we are all one race - the human race?" Dogs are wolves and Somalis are Swedes because, hey, fertile offspring!

Lovely.

The unique might not disprove the ubiquitous, but it does disprove the dogmatic rule: the potential for fertile offspring does not - by itself - a species make.

Anonymous Takin' a Look February 27, 2016 6:24 AM  

@ Shut up rabbit.

Really, you do need to shut up. Just because YOU haven't heard of it, doesn't mean others have or that it is a rare one-off freak. The point of dragging over Clay and PhilipGeorge and now YOU and rubbing your nose in it is that fertile hybrids can and do exist.

The wholphin is not unique, wild wholphins have been repeatedly spotted. Because bottle nose dolphins and false killer whales often associate with each other in feed ball gatherings.

The truth here is, YOU, Clay and PhillipGeorge are the SJWs here. You got smacked with an example that blew your asses outta the water. Now you're weaseling out with baloney that VERY painfully demonstrates you haven't even Jimmy Wale'd the subject.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan February 27, 2016 6:54 AM  

My nationality is American, Sarah's is Portuguese or something I fail to see how she is superior to me or why such a woman can legitimately scold me, maybe that is in her next genius post.

Now on the other hand I think it best her husband does his duty, if you know what I mean, I sense the crazy is leaking out from some unfulfilled emotional release.

Blogger James Dixon February 27, 2016 7:31 AM  

> He might be worse. This guy wants to rule the world--permanently.

Why are people always confusing Donald's desires with Hillary's?

But in any case, the republic has been dead for over 150 years, and the quasi-republic I was born into for over almost 30. I don't really care if someone wants to become emperor for life of it's remnants.

Blogger Gaiseric February 27, 2016 7:47 AM  

I don't really like Trump either, but the Glenn Beck and Matt Walsh esque Trump Derangement Syndrome is losing its amusement factor.

Blogger Steve Moss February 27, 2016 8:30 AM  

Argument by definition is capitulation.

I can accept that, but it cuts both ways.

Blogger Rusty Fife February 27, 2016 8:49 AM  

Unamused Flyover Resident wrote:So, because wolphins aren't ubiquitous "we are all one race - the human race?" Dogs are wolves and Somalis are Swedes because, hey, fertile offspring!

Lovely.

The unique might not disprove the ubiquitous, but it does disprove the dogmatic rule: the potential for fertile offspring does not - by itself - a species make.


Excellent riposte

Blogger Rusty Fife February 27, 2016 9:01 AM  

Nature, nurture, & environment:

I will pay anyone a $100,000 that can get a pit bull to pass the Senior Hunter AKC hunt test: http://images.akc.org/pdf/rulebooks/RHTPNT.pdf

Pit bull defined as an AKC papered Staffordshire Terrier: http://www.akc.org/dog-breeds/american-staffordshire-terrier/

I am confident making this challenge because the terrier doesn't have the firmware to do it. You can train (software) the dog all you want and it won't compute.

Pit bulls and German short-haired pointers are both capable of inter-breeding and therefore are the same species. Similarly, Portuguese and Englishmen are capable of interbreeding and therefore the same species.

However, they are running on different firmware; even if they have been raised in the United States by Americans.

Blogger Dexter February 27, 2016 10:13 AM  

any philosophy that enshrines your pasty white middle aged guy over Dr. Sowell is sick

So now Sowell is the poster boy for NABALT.

Toss a single Sowell on the scales and he outweighs tens of millions of "pasty white guys" and also (more importantly) tens of millions of Dindu thugs. He is mighty, indeed. Practically magic!

Anonymous Takin' a Look February 27, 2016 10:58 AM  

@ unamused flyover resident and @ Rusty Fife.

Thanm you for your eloquence. No, wholphins aren't a unique one-off. Wild wholphins are known. So are wild guinea fowl and feral chicken hybrids.
Delphinids, even very distinct genetic units, can often breed true. On the opposite side of the spectrum is crypto-species, such as resident orcas and transients who -never-interbreed. Bird species are estimated to have their numbers doubled due to that phenomenon alone.
Hybridization with resulting fertile offspring is a much, much more frequent phenomenon in the wild than we thought, both with plants and animals.

Anonymous Joe Blowe February 27, 2016 11:16 AM  

In the 1950's, 8% of black children were born to single mothers. Today 40% of white children are. Black neighborhoods then were safer than white neighborhoods today.

African nations don't have the highest rate of murder and rape on Earth not because their people are law abiding and peaceful, i.e. act white, its because murders and rapes are not reported to the authorities.

Pre-1960s America the black illegitimacy rate was low ON PAPER only because blacks married at a higher rate ON PAPER. They still screwed around like they do today, they still abandoned their kids like they do today it just all looked good ON PAPER because they were "married". Blacks were just as violent back then as well but was mitigated by Jim Crow, and the facts that until the Great Migration most blacks lived in rural areas, they were limited to knives and cheapo, small caliber Niggertown Saturday-night Specials, and the crimes that went on in their segregated areas were mostly unreported. Once blacks moved in great numbers to White cities with White policing and White victims at the same time the "Civil Rights" psy-op made enforcing Western Civilization illegal all Hell broke loose.

I don't discount the pernicious effect of liberal social policy but it did not create black dysfunction. This is account describes the black ward of Baltimore in 1892:

Open drains, great lots filled with high weeds, ashes and garbage accumulated in the alleyways, cellars filled with filthy black water, houses that are total strangers to the touch of whitewash or scrubbing brush, human bodies that have been strangers for months to soap and water, villainous looking negroes who loiter and sleep around the street corners and never work; vile and vicious women, with but a smock to cover their black nakedness, lounging in the doorways or squatting upon the steps, hurling foul epithets at every passerby; foul streets, foul people, in foul tenements filled with foul air; that's "Pigtown."

Sound familiar?

Anonymous Unamused Flyover Resident February 27, 2016 11:18 AM  

Pit bulls and German short-haired pointers are both capable of inter-breeding and therefore are the same species. Similarly, Portuguese and Englishmen are capable of interbreeding and therefore the same species.

Dogs and wolves are capable of interbreeding and therefore are the same species. Coyotes and wolves are capable of interbreeding and are therefore the same species. Similarly, False Killer Whales and Bottlenose Dolphins are capable of interbreeding and therefore the same species.

Oh wait ...

We have all been here before,
We have all been here before .... (with apologies to Crosby, Stills & Nash)

Blogger Michael Maier February 27, 2016 3:06 PM  

@184... Ouch.

Anonymous BGKB February 27, 2016 4:31 PM  

182 Toss a single Sowell on the scales and he outweighs tens of millions of "pasty white guys"

I thought Oprah was heavy.

184 Blacks were just as violent back then as well They just needed some of the magic dirt from around Nate's house.

Blogger SciVo February 27, 2016 4:51 PM  

Steve Moss wrote:Argument by definition is capitulation.

I can accept that, but it cuts both ways.


Fair enough, but I'm arguing on analogy, which is second-best. (Corollary: if arguing on identity isn't enough, then this probably won't work either. But I'll give it my best.)

Rusty Fife wrote:It's like none of these guys has trained gun dogs. Labs are wired completely different from a GSP.

So, you admit that "gun dogs" (race) are a distinct thing among "dogs" (species), even though "Labs" and "GSP" (ethnicity) are distinct and distinguishable. Thanks for making our point. [mic drop]

Blogger Rusty Fife February 27, 2016 5:25 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Rusty Fife February 27, 2016 5:26 PM  

SciVo wrote:

So, you admit that "gun dogs" (race) are a distinct thing among "dogs" (species), even though "Labs" and "GSP" (ethnicity) are distinct and distinguishable. Thanks for making our point. [mic drop


Herp. Derp. That is what I was trying to do.

Anonymous Takin' a Look February 27, 2016 10:01 PM  

The concept of "species" is in flux and quite flexible. The coywolf is an example among many. Watch PBS Nature "meet the Coywolf" to get an idea. Coyotes are killed ON SIGHT by wolves everwhere but in a small area of eastern canada. That's where the modern coywolf comes from.

Anonymous Takin' a Look February 27, 2016 11:31 PM  

One more....

Crypto-species are critters who outwardly in practically every way seem exactly alike....except they don't breed....EVER. They are usually sympatric too. Yet...their genetics show NO interbreeding as far back as a million years.

So that robin couple on one tree and another tree in your back yard may be as divergent genetically as Human species were from 1 million BC until 40,000 BC. Just tiny differences in diet, song and mate selection results in a morphology very distinct genetically. Yet phenotype is practically indistinguishable.

Anonymous j February 28, 2016 12:44 AM  

"I will pay anyone a $100,000 that can get a pit bull to pass the Senior Hunter AKC hunt test:"
I'll take that bet.

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY February 28, 2016 12:46 AM  

And I'll get one out the pound.

Anonymous A.B. Prosper February 28, 2016 1:25 AM  

re: Sara.

She is a Constitutionalist Magic Soil Libertarian, not a bad sort but not a Conservative. Libertarians are another form of Liberal only Social and Economic Liberal at the same time.

Its a coherent philosophy just wrongheaded and useless in the real world.

Anonymous 0007 February 28, 2016 9:55 AM  

Just my two cents FWIW, but if you look at a map of upper New York, from east to west, about every 50 miles of so there's a town/village/city founded/named by my people. They were the stage stops that were fed(and fed) by the Erie Canal traffic. Before that they were merchants in New Amsterdam and points south. 'Course that was after being thrown/chased out of most of the countries in Europe in the 15th and 16th century. We apparently kept selecting out for the incorrect religion.

Got a book researched by a little old lady in Dry Prong, Louisiana to prove it, heh, heh, heh.

She also tells the story of one of our southern people who sent one of his slaves after another escaped slave. The chaser trekked all over the South for seven years chasing after the escapee. Her book has pictures of the maps and chits that he used, heh, heh.
So yeah, we been around here a long time.

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