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Monday, February 29, 2016

The mask comes off

Revealing the alien philosophy it concealed. It only took a few hours for the Transamerican School of National Identity to declare that disenfranchisement of actual Americans in favor of Ameriboos was desirable.
accordingtohoyt
This is VD’s bullshit. I can see it taking several generations to being fully civilized because part of it is a genetic selection thing, but in THAT case we’re all about somewhere close, myself included. Several generations to be fully American? Oh, take a powder. You need to be an idiot to believe that.

Amanda
I will take Sarah and all those like her who want to come to this country, who do so legally and who take all appropriate steps to become a citizen any day of the week over someone who looks down on them because they were not born here. Right now, Sarah looks much more “American” than you.

thewriterinblack  
"The immigrant becomes a citizen. The immigrant lays claim to now being American. Only by law, Sarah."

This statement demonstrates that Sarah is more American than you are. Because she believes in what makes America, America. And you don’t.

Stephen W. Houghton
My paternal ancestors have been here since before the war of independence. I say Americans are those who take the oath and stand with us. Traitors, those what ever their blood who do not.... Go and lick your Donald’s hand, may your chains lay lightly upon you, and may our posterity forget that you were our countryman.

Randy Wilde
Meh. She’s more American than many people born in the U.S. She actually believes in the ideals on which the country was founded.

Paul (Drak Bibliophile) Howard
Nope and by my standards, you’re not a Real American and Sarah is.

Nicki  
You’re a fucking moron, and you don’t DESERVE the citizenship of this great nation.

jccarlton
Here’s the thing, Vox, YOU don’t get a say in who’s an American, not anymore. You’ve given that up for a villa in Italy. I imagine that you enjoy it, that means that you no longer have to deal with America’s problems. All your problem are the problems of Europe and you are welcome to them. As for REAL Americans, I would rather have some of the people I’ve had the pleasure of knowing over the years than somebody who is as childish and cowardly as you, Vox. You ran from America’s problems and then had the unmitigated GALL to say that Sarah isn’t good enough to be an American.
My, these transamericans are certainly entitled, aren't they? Not only can they tell Americans what Real Americans are and are not, but they are going to kick out everyone who doesn't think like they do, no matter whose posterity they happen might be! Nations aren't genetically-related peoples, after all, but mere collections of similarly-minded groupthinkers.

Notice that I never said anything about Sarah being good enough to be an American. I never said anything about being American being something good, or even desirable. What I stated is a simple fact, one no more controversial than Sarah being female. She is Portuguese. She is not American. Becoming a U.S. citizen is paperwork; the mere fact that one has to become a U.S. citizen is sufficient to indicate that one is not an American. As it happens, I even know a few Americans who are not U.S. citizens.

Amongst all the emoting, hissy-fitting, posturing, and outrage, only one commenter, Ironbear, was sufficiently perspicacious to note how "the proposition nation" is not only ahistorical fiction, but in practice, must be intrinsically opposed to the genuine Rights of Englishmen on which the original Anglo-American nation was founded.
Is there a way to maintain and defend a nation of ideas without disenfranchising those who demonstrably don’t share those ideas, even though they be born here?

Saying that “We were able to sustain a nation of ideas as long as America remained a melting pot,” is true, but not useful in that context. The America that was is dead dead, and toxic ideas introduced, propagated, and made colour of law and custom by our supposed fellows murdered it – using the power of the vote, among other weapons.

I find Mrs. Hoyt’s concept of a prospective nation formed of ideas, ideals, and based upon shared experiences and principles to be aesthetically pleasing. I also see it as being extremely vulnerable, and demonstrably difficult to defend – unless one is willing to go all the way to the walls in eradicating ideas that are toxic to it, which our relatively recent ancestors didn’t. (I strongly suspect that they didn’t truly see the danger and the toxicity of Marxism until it was too late, or even really recognize what was killing us even then.)

The extremes required to protect those ideas from those who would destroy them with toxic ones are unpalatable as well, and not the least bit aesthetically or otherwise pleasing to me. I find that to be depressing, and without hope of a resolution that is not borne of fire and blood.
He is correct to be dubious. Their "proposition nation" is not even theoretically possible without the sort of thought police that their self-definitive ideals must reject. Defining a nation as a proposition is as intrinsically absurd and self-negating as feminism or communism or open-borders libertarianism. These transamerican idealists consider themselves to be intelligent and well-educated, and yet they have observably failed to even begin to think through the necessary consequences of the very values they erroneously claim makes one American.

And that, my dear Sarah, is one thing that you really should learn from me: ruthlessly thinking through the logical consequences of your foundational assumptions. As it stands, her core position is fundamentally illogical. On the other hand, at least she does seem to have changed her mind about my finally understanding Europe.
He’s become European through and through. He doesn’t wish the US well (doesn’t take much reading to see him gloating at potential destruction of the US. And all I have to do to attract his attention and unhinge him is say the US will survive, even though I don’t direct it at him.)

Under those circumstances for any American to follow his lead on things like presidential nominations is insane.

I don’t wish VD any harm — in fact, he’s pretty much irrelevant to me, in any way our paths intersect — and his ideas might yet win out in Europe. For America they’re a poison pill and as bad as Obama’s.
(Spreads hands and smiles.) Unhinged? Quite the contrary. Sarah and her commenters have beautifully demonstrated exactly what I intended from the start. Their naive USian ideals are fundamentally and functionally antithetical to the historical American ideals they ape so clumsily.

Depending upon how one reckons it, we stand on the verge of the fourth America. I count them as follows:

America 1.0: Constitutional America 1789-1865
America 2.0: American Empire 1865-1913
America 3.0: Republican US 1913-1941
America 3.1: Early Imperial US 1941-1965
America 3:2: Latter Imperial US 1965~2033 (est)
America 4.0: Post-US~2033

Sarah and her defenders are confusing America 2.0 for America 1.0, and are completely unaware that they living in an America 3.2 that is rapidly laying the groundwork for the Post-US. And while I still value the ideals of America 1.0, with a very few exceptions they simply don't exist in the USA anymore. As for what Sarah calls my "ideas", they will win out in both the USA and in Europe for the simple reason that they are not my ideas, they are simply my observations of what is already happening.

It is easy to know that I am much more likely to be correct than they are. Lacking imagination - ironic given how many SF writers are there - they assume the future will be the status quo extended into the future. And it will not be. Whatever it will be, it will most certainly not be that, not after the largest invasion in human history.

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242 Comments:

1 – 200 of 242 Newer› Newest»
Blogger praetorian February 29, 2016 2:15 AM  

2033. My oldest boy will be 25.

Fuck.

These women have no fucking idea what they are doing.

Blogger Dexter February 29, 2016 2:23 AM  

Several generations to be fully American? Oh, take a powder. You need to be an idiot to believe that.

So, you're instantly an American if you get out of the plane and you "believe in the ideals".

How do we operationalize that, exactly? What tests for "belief in the ideals" would be effective? Do they just get to stay here not-believing for as long as it takes until they... or their children... or their grandchildren finally "believe in the ideals"?

Good luck with that. Gonna be a long wait before the dusky loins of the mestizos and Africans swarming shore finally grunt forth a True Believer.

Blogger Shimshon February 29, 2016 2:43 AM  

I found out at 33, about two years before she passed away, that my maternal (Polish-Jewish) grandmother was an illegal alien in the US in the 1930s (who naturalized at some point). She was very good at keeping secrets. Put a whole new perspective on my own background.

Anonymous 4388 February 29, 2016 2:44 AM  

It's always interesting how people constantly mistake observation for endorsement.

Vox: "The economy will probably collapse in nineteen years."

Critic: "Why do you hate the economy?"

Blogger Derrick Bonsell February 29, 2016 2:45 AM  

It took many generations for the post
1860 immigrants to quit bringing European ideas that were hostile to old-stock Americans, and that was in a society they weren't a significant demographic in.

Modern immigrants bring all sorts of hostilities against white Americans (and other non-whites) and don't come here for a proposition, they come because they hope to undercut natives in the labor markets and take "their share" of our relative prosperity.

Blogger Epimandes February 29, 2016 2:48 AM  

There is substantial overlap between what Vox believes and what the historical Ku Klux Klan believes with only one major point of difference: Vox doesn't believe that Jews and Catholics have no part in American society. (Fun American history fact: Maryland was originally a Catholic colony, hence the name.)

I am not saying this as an accusation. I am saying this as a plain fact. If you don't believe me, look up what the Klan advocated in the 1920s.

Anonymous PhillipGeorge©2016 February 29, 2016 2:49 AM  

I sat around a coffee table in Saudi Arabia with some US/ American expats 25 odd years ago trying to get them to elucidate/ enunciate what "American" is. They couldn't. I wanted to steer them in the direction of core Christendom civilizational principles. Have all nations ceased to exist? International treaties suggest so.

Christendom 2.0 then, the sooner the better. [or Allah hu Akbar taking your house]

Blogger kh123 February 29, 2016 2:50 AM  

They're simply recognizing the winning team.

"This is my bro. This is his party. He's the guest of honor. Today is his birthday."

Blogger Epimandes February 29, 2016 2:57 AM  

It is our holy duty to guard against the foreign hoardes!

Blogger Doom February 29, 2016 2:59 AM  

Entertaining. Watching you do some of these things is like watching a doctor pop a zit without touching the client or damaging the skin. *pop* Precision, baby. Wha-AHHHHHHHH! Next!

Anonymous Discard February 29, 2016 2:59 AM  

How can people be so blind. Insist that this is a proposition nation, but bring in all sorts who have never even heard of the propositions. Time to reboot.

Blogger GJ February 29, 2016 3:02 AM  

A question for both sides: is the average black person in the US an 'American', by your definition?

OpenID b1bae96e-6447-11e3-b6bb-000f20980440 February 29, 2016 3:12 AM  

If America is a proposition nation, and it includes the idea of Freedom of Religion, how does one go about finding the bad Muslims who could be Americans by not following the Koran as it relates to Sharia and the Caliphate from the good Muslims that cannot be Americans because they believe in Sharia and Caliphate?

And what does America do to ensure that a bad Muslim never becomes a good Muslims and hence a non-American? And if that happens what will the repercussions be?

2033. My oldest boy will be 25.

Fuck.


Yeah I was thinking about that too. Both my boys will be in their early 20s. It could be the end of my paternal family line. We haven't been the luckiest with males for the last 5 generations. Plenty of womenfolk marrying and having kids, but my pride tells me its not the same.

Will Best

Blogger Ron February 29, 2016 3:16 AM  

@VD

When does a non American become American? What is the actual mechanism?

For example, at one point in time Sarahs ancestors were not portugeuse, when did they become portugeuse?

I sympathize with your view, I do not know if I agree with it. This is for two reasons, one, it still lacks precision both in definition and in mechanism. Two, even with definition, I do not know the basis for it. The basis you have provided is enough to sympathize with and even enough to warrant serious consideration, but not quite enough to overturn the lives of a number of immigrants.

Maybe thats best. Maybe this isnt something we really want too hard of a definition for.

OpenID b1bae96e-6447-11e3-b6bb-000f20980440 February 29, 2016 3:29 AM  

A question for both sides: is the average black person in the US an 'American', by your definition?

We are about to find out. If Trump pulls 20% or even if they just stay home that will be a good sign.

I give them the benefit of the doubt. They have spilled blood for this country. They are about as African as I am European. And they have for good or ill contributed to our culture. Caveat: The 3 million or so we have allowed in since we opened up Africa to our insane immigration policies got to go.

Blacks don't like Hispanics but they will ally with them to get free stuff. So the question is when the fighting starts which way are their guns going to be pointing.

Will Best

Anonymous kfg February 29, 2016 3:40 AM  

@VD: "I even know a few Americans who are not U.S. citizens."

Contrariwise, I know a few Americans who are not and will not be recognized as citizens in the country of their birth, because they are obviously Americans. Not everyone believes in magic dirt.

@14 Ron: " . . .it still lacks precision both in definition and in mechanism."

Welcome to the world outside of mathematical models. Come on in, sometimes the water is fine. Sometimes it isn't.

And the only reliable mechanism to tell the difference between the two is your big toe.

Anonymous FrankNorman February 29, 2016 3:41 AM  

11. Discard February 29, 2016 2:59 AM

How can people be so blind. Insist that this is a proposition nation, but bring in all sorts who have never even heard of the propositions. Time to reboot.


A point to remember about debating open-borders, "citizen of the world" types - they are dishonest. They don't really believe most of what they pretend to.

Blogger VD February 29, 2016 3:57 AM  

A question for both sides: is the average black person in the US an 'American', by your definition?

No. They are a nation unto themselves, as many of them will not hesitate to tell you. Read Fred Reed on this, he's very good on the subject.

Many of you seem to be confused by what a "nation" is. It's not your fault, you've been maleducated on the subject. A nation is not political borders, it is simply an extended genetic family with a shared language and culture.

Czechoslovakia was not a nation, it was a political entity made of up two nations, Czechs and Slovaks, which have since gone their separate ways. Conversely, Sweden is no longer a nation, it is now a political entity made up of Swedes and non-Swedes.

Blogger Jon M February 29, 2016 4:01 AM  

"We are a nation of immigrants," is nonsense of the highest order. It's one of those dual-nature phrases that people spout because they hope that by tying their nonsensical beliefs to a statement of fact, you won't notice the slight of hand, and for a long time I sure didn't on this one.

Let's break it down. America is a nation of immigrants - people whose ancestors used to live over there, but then they moved here. But all people wander. Unless you are from an unbroken line of residents living in a small patch of west Africa, you are descended from wanderers. In that respect being a nation of immigrants doesn't provide any distinguishing information - it's like saying this is a nation where people live, or that this is a nation that has borders and a capital. It's so clearly self-evident it literally goes without saying.

Unless...what you really mean by that statement is that America is a place where people can move, and immediately start re-arranging the furniture more to their liking. Unless what you mean is that America is a place where Real Americans (tm) never object to foreign influence in our politics so long as that influence is brought in by permanent residents with the right piece of paper. Unless what you really mean is that America is a place that is so great - but would be even better if only it wasn't so...*American*.

In which case you would do well to remember that America is also a nation that always does the right thing, but only after exhausting every other possibility. We may be working through every other possibility at the moment, but those foreign invaders whose weapons are made of paper and documents rather than iron and gunpowder are still invaders. When America does finally get around to doing the right thing - throwing out the invaders - it's going to be ugly. No brag. No cheerful and hopeful anticipation. Just plain spoken observation of fact.

Blogger buwaya puti February 29, 2016 4:15 AM  

Man, you are getting high on your own supply here. Now, often enough you talk sense, but here you are being all Hari Seldon.
First rule of history is beware of rules of history. Now, for instance, Hegel was a smart guy, but you wouldn't have much use for either his methods or his conclusions.
H G Wells was also a smart guy, but not THAT smart. But a much better writer. Anyway, you wouldn't have much use for his predictions either.
And so on.
History has this nasty habit of playing tricks, springing traps, changing the rules, sticking in wandering monsters. Yes, a nasty D&D DM.
You know what else is a proposition nation? Spain. Ferdinand and Isabella put together a multi-lingual, multi-ethnic, multi-religious nation, and came up with the idea of the proposition that Spain belonged together because it was there to be Catholic. Religion justified them. And, barring a few persecutions, expulsions, revolts and civil wars, and Portugal wandering in and out, its worked for 524 years so far, in spite of most Spaniards, in the last 150 years or so, being about as religious as a hunk of jamon serrano. Inertia is a powerful thing. Ole. Viva Su Majestad el Rey Don Felipe VI.

Blogger lowercaseb February 29, 2016 4:16 AM  

>What I stated is a simple fact, one no more controversial
>than Sarah being female.

The proper term is Vaginal-American damnit!

Anonymous kfg February 29, 2016 4:16 AM  

@17 Frank Norman:

That was one of my youthful epiphanies, the realization that I didn't believe what I pretended to.

This was a bit disconcerting, because I had noted at a preschool age that almost nobody actually believed what they pretended to and that you had to judge people's beliefs by what they did, not by what they said.

And yet I found myself playing the "For thee, but not for me" game. I wanted to be a citizen of the world, but there were a shit ton of people I didn't want to be a citizen of my world.

At least not unless I was pretty well fortified and armed.

In other words, the only way I could realize my dream of world citizenship would be to kill a shit ton of people who did not exactly see the world the way I did. Many of those people seemed to want little more than to kill me so that they could be a citizen of the world.

I have sturdy locks on the sturdy doors to my house, because they serve good purpose. Sturdy locks on my nation serve the same purpose.

Blogger Ron February 29, 2016 4:20 AM  

@VD

Many of you seem to be confused by what a "nation" is. It's not your fault, you've been maleducated on the subject. A nation is not political borders, it is simply an extended genetic family with a shared language and culture.

This. Even tho it wasn't in response to my question, it was exactly what I asked for, so thanks.

And thanks a second time, because I think I remember you writing something like this at least once before, so thanks again for having the patience to put it up again.

At this point, the question becomes one of how much ethnic and cultural heritage must be shared. But that is a different topic.

Anonymous redsash February 29, 2016 4:20 AM  

So Sarah believes herself to be an American. Is she a Southerner or a Yankee?

Blogger VD February 29, 2016 4:23 AM  

Ferdinand and Isabella put together a multi-lingual, multi-ethnic, multi-religious nation, and came up with the idea of the proposition that Spain belonged together because it was there to be Catholic. Religion justified them. And, barring a few persecutions, expulsions, revolts and civil wars, and Portugal wandering in and out, its worked for 524 years so far, in spite of most Spaniards, in the last 150 years or so, being about as religious as a hunk of jamon serran.

You prove my point. Spain was stable for centuries because it engaged in furious, indeed, legendary ethno-religious cleansing. And now it is breaking up, with Catalonia demanding independence.

You're flat-out wrong, Buwaya, and you always will be because your entire perspective is totally driven by "what is good for me, the Filippino living in a foreign nation". Not unlike most immigrants, of course, I see it all the time in the various expat communities over here. But your self-serving spin doesn't fool anyone in the slightest.

Anonymous kfg February 29, 2016 4:23 AM  

@20: " . . . most Spaniards, in the last 150 years or so, being about as religious as a hunk of jamon serrano."

And yet, when I lived in Spain under Franco, the Spanish Inquisition found me.

And no, I didn't expect it. At all.

Anonymous kfg February 29, 2016 4:27 AM  

@VD: "Many of you seem to be confused by what a "nation" is. "

They can ask any Jew or Roma.

Blogger peter blandings February 29, 2016 4:30 AM  

@13

islam is not protected by the first amendment because it's tenets prohibit freedom of religion. the non-establishment clause is violated by islam because islam mandates the establishment of a religion (islam, of course) by the state which is indistinguishable from the religion.

technically, islam should not be permitted in the u.s. just as a convicted murderer is not protected from the death penalty by the law against murder, islam is not protected by the first amendment because it VIOLATES the first amendment and thereby forfeits the right.

"America 3:2: Latter Imperial US 1965~2033 (est)"
that seems wildly optimistic to me. but then i don't see how it's gone on as long as it has. by my estimate, the u.s. absolutely peaked in 1960. read JFK's inaugural speech of jan. 1961. it is heresy, and inducts the ere of interventionist america, which has proven it's downfall. then of course comes teddy's 1965 immigration act and you can pretty much explain the complete demise of the country.

Blogger Sherwood family February 29, 2016 4:32 AM  

Wow... Don't touch that dial. This is the most entertainment I have had in ages. The fact that Hoyt's bona fides as an American can be questioned at all is proof that the Narrative is starting to crack and that all kinds of taboo and heretofore off-limits topics will begin to see wider and wider discussion. What a relief!

Blogger White Devil February 29, 2016 4:40 AM  

Randy Wilde
Meh. She’s more American than many people born in the U.S. She actually believes in the ideals on which the country was founded.


The average American is only 0.65 American by ideas. I'm 0.70 American by ideas. Therefore, my arrival makes American more American. No wait, that's wrong.

America is a Nation of Immigrants (100% immigrants.) So, if America has some natural born people, every immigrant that joins the count makes the country more American.

Whatever. America is a GREAT thing and we need MORE of it. Immigration will mean MORE America, especially if we grant undocumented persons citizenship. There will be MORE Americans and therefore MORE America.

On a serious note: How much of this lines up with communism?

Communists are more or less out to establish that wealth is fully transferable, that it's been distributed through wickedness, trickery and violence and so using wickedness, trickery and violence to rearrange things is not just okay, but Better, More Just and More Efficient.

At least Hoyt has taken a moment to grant Vox a new homeland:

He’s become European through and through.

Unlike all the Africans and Asians that were born European and have to walk and sail all the way to Sweden to finally be themselves.

Blogger buwaya puti February 29, 2016 4:42 AM  

But Spain is still distinctly different. I can't understand Gallegos any better than I can my Brazilian neighbor. And though technically Basque, it is a language from beyond Alpha Centauri. Spain did not ethnically cleanse anyone but Jews and Moslems. Those other aliens are still there, saying viva when the king shows up. And I'll put money on the Catalans staying. They've been leaving in a huff for three hundred years.

Anonymous PhillipGeorge©2016 February 29, 2016 4:43 AM  

Religion justified them.
Justified them, sanctified them and gave them eternal life.
Christianity is your history; if you are reading this in any form of English or any European language.

The resurrection of Jesus is the fabric of the Confederacy of Europe called Christendom. It's your economic political cultural history. For all the good bad ugly detail its your one and only history. Without it, well Allah hu Akbar useful idiots; or just wait for the Chinese to buy you out.

Your flag has nothing written on it if not history. Just leave it white if that's all you've got.

Blogger Escoffier February 29, 2016 4:51 AM  

And I notice that the minute you dare question the proposition nation the only real response from the cucks and sjws is to furiously hone in on the racial angle obsessively. Which of course is just another way of saying that their only defense is to shriek racist which only cucks and sjw's use a their defense. Proving QED that they are cucks and sjw's.

Anonymous kfg February 29, 2016 4:52 AM  

"Your flag has nothing written on it if not history. Just leave it white if that's all you've got."

Gimme one of those. I can paint a pine tree on it easy enough.

Blogger GJ February 29, 2016 4:52 AM  

VD:

Thanks for the clarification.

On another note, it is rather amusing to see Hoyt tacitly admitting that as a rule nations are "of blood and genes", but that America (under her conception) is special.

Anonymous Bobby Farr February 29, 2016 4:57 AM  

This is self-entitlement taken to a pathological extreme. "Nice country you've got here. Since I've arrived and am delusional enough to think I'm a native, let's pretend your ethnic group and culture don't exist and just define American as anyone who's cool."

Blogger MATT February 29, 2016 4:57 AM  

"I pay taxes" is another favorite of immigrants who call themselves American. I love telling the foreigners at work that they aren't American and never will be.

Blogger buwaya puti February 29, 2016 4:57 AM  

I'm not at all American, by blood or ideas.
I just live here. On the other hand, I've got outsiders perspective to the max. Tocqueville yo.
I see you guys through the polarized light, and Ultraviolet and Infrared. Your alien invaders ? I speak their languages (some anyway), and know whats what.
So I'm in a fairly good place to say that the echo chamber here may be going off the rails.
Nationalism is a wild ride. I've seen more bad than good out of it.
Not to say this isnt going to be a hard, difficult year with many surprises, too many will be nasty. Lots of shoes due to be dropped. "Events, my boy events".

Blogger buwaya puti February 29, 2016 4:59 AM  

Matt, I am sure you have winning ways and are beloved of you co-workers.

Blogger VD February 29, 2016 5:06 AM  

Nationalism is a wild ride. I've seen more bad than good out of it.

Globalism is much wilder and much worse. What many of you living in America probably don't realize is that they are pushing the same bullshit in the Scandinavian countries. They are actually saying that Denmark and Sweden are nations of immigrants and that opposing immigration is against Danish and Swedish values.

It is no more ridiculous and ahistorical than the nonsense that Sarah is pushing, it is simply newer.

I'm in a fairly good place to say that the echo chamber here may be going off the rails.

First, it's observably not an echo chamber. That shows the value of your judgment right there. Second, lots of people said I was crazy when I warned about the economy in 2002. And that I was nuts when I said Trump was the only viable Republican candidate.

And I was less confident about those things than I am about the rising tide of nationalism. I was pointing this out long before Anders Breivik started shooting people, and look at what has happened since. You are just one of those people who can't see things until they happen. I see them coming.

Blogger VD February 29, 2016 5:08 AM  

On another note, it is rather amusing to see Hoyt tacitly admitting that as a rule nations are "of blood and genes", but that America (under her conception) is special.

If she moved to Sweden, she'd be saying the same thing about there. It's little more than self-interested rationalization. Like most people, she defines reality by what she wants it to be, not what is actually there.

Anonymous Deadlocked February 29, 2016 5:09 AM  

If the way VD defines and describes a nation is correct, a person can't really change their own nationality. The only thing they can do is change their children's nationality by moving, ensuring their cultural assimilation and encouraging them to intermarry. Am I getting this right?

Blogger White Devil February 29, 2016 5:15 AM  

What many of you living in America probably don't realize is that they are pushing the same bullshit in the Scandinavian countries. They are actually saying that Denmark and Sweden are nations of immigrants and that opposing immigration is against Danish and Swedish values.

Zany French court rulings filter over to the American news, at least on the internet. Husbands facing penalties for attempting to paternity test children. Or that there is no historical basis for France as a "white" country with an indigenous "French" population.

BBC likes to export their news, but they leave most of their overt lefty psychosis off their international stuff.

Blogger buwaya puti February 29, 2016 5:16 AM  

Matt, I am sure you have winning ways and are beloved of you co-workers.

Blogger buwaya puti February 29, 2016 5:16 AM  

I'm not at all American, by blood or ideas.
I just live here. On the other hand, I've got outsiders perspective to the max. Tocqueville yo.
I see you guys through the polarized light, and Ultraviolet and Infrared. Your alien invaders ? I speak their languages (some anyway), and know whats what.
So I'm in a fairly good place to say that the echo chamber here may be going off the rails.
Nationalism is a wild ride. I've seen more bad than good out of it.
Not to say this isnt going to be a hard, difficult year with many surprises, too many will be nasty. Lots of shoes due to be dropped. "Events, my boy events".

Anonymous Bobby Farr February 29, 2016 5:16 AM  

@42 You can change it if you wish and dream hard enough. I was born a white man in a small Kansas town but took an intro Japanese course, moved to Tokyo and started studying judo and ikebana. Now I am as Japanese as the imperial family. If anything, I am more Japanese than most of these native born Japanese because I choose to be here.

Blogger White Devil February 29, 2016 5:18 AM  

Deadlocked
A person can't really change their own nationality.... Am I getting this right?
If a person can change their sex, their race, their species and their age (see euro-migrants) then why couldn't they change their nationality?

Blogger VD February 29, 2016 5:19 AM  

Which is one thing that troubles me about the emotional baggage of ethnic nationalism.

We don't give a damn about the fact that you're afraid. You should be afraid. If you were smart enough, you'd go back home. But you won't, so you're simply going to get more and more afraid because the tide has only begun rising.

Ludwig von Mises left AUSTRIA after Hitler came to power in Germany, long before there were any problems there. The signs are all there. Ignore them at your peril.

This goes for all of us. It's not going to be fun for anyone. So don't think I'm celebrating it, in fact, I am very, very angry that things have been permitted to reach this idiotic state of insanity. And I'm not inclined to be very patient with fearful ostriches like you, who think that expressing their opinions is going to change anything in the slightest.

It doesn't matter what you say or think. It doesn't matter what I say or think. It is already in process.

Anonymous kfg February 29, 2016 5:20 AM  

@43: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company

Blogger VD February 29, 2016 5:21 AM  

More importantly, Buwaya, stop hitting Publish twice. I know the button is not very responsive, but give it time. You've commented twice three times on this thread already.

Blogger VD February 29, 2016 5:24 AM  

The only thing they can do is change their children's nationality by moving, ensuring their cultural assimilation and encouraging them to intermarry. Am I getting this right?

More or less. But the kids won't be proper nationals. The great-grandkids should be. But there will still be fundamental differences based on genetic-based behavioral triggers. For example, if Great-grandpa had an 80 IQ, they're still going to be less intelligent than the unadulterated nationals. Or vice-versa, as the case may be.

Blogger James Dixon February 29, 2016 5:53 AM  

> So Sarah believes herself to be an American. Is she a Southerner or a Yankee?

She wouldn't even understand the question.

> Gimme one of those. I can paint a pine tree on it easy enough.

The Culpeper Flag. Don't tread on me.

> ...but that America (under her conception) is special.

The only things that ever made America special were the Rights of Englishmen and a limited government. Other than those, we're just like everyone else. Now that we don't have those...

OpenID simplytimothy February 29, 2016 6:00 AM  

I am having a grand old time. My people are waking up. Many fully awake and armed hoping Trump can/will institutionalize American Nationalism and the political war against the Globalist Multiculturalists and hoping it will show some positive fruit so that we do not have to resort to arms.

They are smart and patient, going daily about their working lives and working and praying for a peaceful restoration of their country. They are not surrendering, they are not assimilating into the alien culture others are importing.

The mask has been ripped off the anti-American, anti-Christian , globalist factions. Men who lied their way into power and influence now stand exposed. They want globalism, they want multi-culturalism, they want tyranny (though they do not call it that)

The cognitive dissonance of the last couple of decades is gone; clarity is emerging.

Trump's wall is not just a wall bordering Mexico. It is a wall of national will. We still have it. I like our odds. I think we will kick ass again.

Anonymous Be Not Afraid February 29, 2016 6:05 AM  

I have to say that these threads are certainly thought-provoking. It's a microcosm of the whole political mess in the GOP.

Thinking about the rather nasty responses Vox quoted, I have an idea why the folks on Sarah's side are so upset. Sarah "identifies" as an American, and Vox questioned her identity. That provoked an amygdala hijack, and so the rather, ah, spirited responses. I'm not sure I've seen such a clear example before in people who aren't stupid or nuts. (HT: Anonymous Conservative)

Also, I agree with Vox's America timeline, and yes, the original America is dead and buried. It's entirely possible we're spinning apart like Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia did, but will it be relatively peaceful, or bloody.

Anonymous Steve With The Wind February 29, 2016 6:07 AM  

If I was going to be born-again American (which I would never do, because I won the lottery of life by being born one of Queen Elizabeth's subjects, bless her cotton socks) I'd be a Southron.

Reason being, the South is the best part of America. They have the best booze, the best music, the best food, and The South Will Rise Again.

They even have Piggly Wiggly, which is the best name for a grocery shop ever.

My wife hates carpetbaggers and danged Yankees though. So I might be tempted to become a TransNewJerseyite just to annoy her. I think I'd suit a spray tan.

If the movie "Mickey Blue Eyes" taught us anything, it's that British people make very convincing mafioso.

Anonymous Deadlocked February 29, 2016 6:10 AM  

@51:

More or less. But the kids won't be proper nationals. The great-grandkids should be.

OK...that's what I thought. If that's the case, then how does an event like the American Revolution apply? At what point did the Founding Fathers change their nationality? Or were they simply rebellious Englishmen, and the American Nation didn't really appear until later generations?

I'm trying to draw parallels to other revolutions, but the only ones that come to mind involve a local ethnic group kicking out foreign rulers. That may simply be the time of night, though...a few hours' sleep may refresh my memory.

Anonymous Comma February 29, 2016 6:12 AM  

VD is correct. Probably the most successful multi-ethnic empire in history is China (and I am referring just about the Han Chinese) and that has only been held together because of an extremely dominant culture pushed from above and somewhat also pushed up from below.

However even though it has been the most successful doesn't mean it is successful or it can't fail. I know plenty of Chinese that if the central government collapsed would go back to their ethnic area and seek to form a nation state based on their people and they would try to keep the other Han out of it.

I'm not saying this is going to happen any time soon but there are alot of groups of Han Chinese that value their regional cultural more or atleast equal to the National Cultural.

Anonymous FrankNorman February 29, 2016 6:25 AM  

Should I be happy to be watching all this from a distance? We have our own problems over here.

One thing, I think - we're not important enough anymore for anyone to use a nuke on.

Anonymous FrankNorman February 29, 2016 6:28 AM  

56. Deadlocked February 29, 2016 6:10 AM

@51:

More or less. But the kids won't be proper nationals. The great-grandkids should be.

OK...that's what I thought. If that's the case, then how does an event like the American Revolution apply? At what point did the Founding Fathers change their nationality? Or were they simply rebellious Englishmen, and the American Nation didn't really appear until later generations?

I'm trying to draw parallels to other revolutions, but the only ones that come to mind involve a local ethnic group kicking out foreign rulers. That may simply be the time of night, though...a few hours' sleep may refresh my memory.


I think the answer would be that "America" as a nation was something that had been developing for a while before it became aware of itself and declared independence.
Some of those colonies had been there for a few hundred years already.

Anonymous Deteminator February 29, 2016 6:35 AM  

According to wiki, Sara Hoyt became a citizen when she was 26 years old, I was unable to determine when she actually moved here. Regardless, it's well past her formative years.

I've been dwelling on this lately. If uprooted my family and moved permanently to England or Australia or Canada, the 3 countries most culturally similar to America, no longer how long I lived there among my new friends I would still be "The American". My children, even after being immersed in English culture would still be "The Americans". My 1 year old would be the most un-American of them, having virtually no real life exposure to American culture. But at the end of the day, when my wife and I discuss current events and she hears us and sub-consciously absorbs it, she would receive an American interpretation to English events. These things are so sub-conscious and automatic, they might as well be hardwired.

Anonymous Faceless February 29, 2016 6:42 AM  

Epimandes wrote:There is substantial overlap between what Vox believes and what the historical Ku Klux Klan believes with only one major point of difference: Vox doesn't believe that Jews and Catholics have no part in American society. (Fun American history fact: Maryland was originally a Catholic colony, hence the name.)

I am not saying this as an accusation. I am saying this as a plain fact. If you don't believe me, look up what the Klan advocated in the 1920s.


I hear that they often purchased Chevrolets, or sometimes Fords. You shouldn't buy those, either.

If most people wanted nothing to do with the rest of the world after a presidential assassination by a crazy foreigner and a world war that we had no proper purpose being involved in, then the entire nation is a nation of inveterate Klansmen, right?

I'm sure that you'll also see how Louis Brandeis shared this common core of beliefs with the Klan, save for the disdain for Catholics and Jews:

However great his outward conformity, the immigrant is not Americanized unless his interests and affections have become deeply rooted here. And we properly demand of the immigrant even more than this--he must be brought into complete harmony with our ideals and aspirations and cooperate with us for their attainment. Only when this has been done will he possess the national consciousness of an American.

Anonymous Determinator February 29, 2016 6:44 AM  

@56 "OK...that's what I thought. If that's the case, then how does an event like the American Revolution apply? At what point did the Founding Fathers change their nationality? Or were they simply rebellious Englishmen, and the American Nation didn't really appear until later generations?"

The nation already existed, they just slapped a new name and packaging on it.

Anonymous kfg February 29, 2016 6:59 AM  

" . . . how does an event like the American Revolution apply? At what point did the Founding Fathers change their nationality?"

The Revolution happened because the majority of them were already multi-generational Americans.

Anonymous Be Not Afraid February 29, 2016 7:06 AM  

" . . . how does an event like the American Revolution apply? At what point did the Founding Fathers change their nationality?"

When they shot at British soldiers?

Anonymous Steve February 29, 2016 7:09 AM  

When they shot at British soldiers?

Ayup.

Blogger Nate February 29, 2016 7:11 AM  

Kashmir thought it was a melting pot at one time too.

Blogger Stilicho February 29, 2016 7:14 AM  

A very. Rabbitty proposition; America is just a social construct, it doesn't really exist.

It's symbolic of their struggle against reality... Let's see how it works out for them.

Blogger Cluebat Vanexodar February 29, 2016 7:21 AM  

I lived and worked in NL for several years (99-05). Had my kids there and moved back when they started for school. I saw the writing on the wall. Mark Steyn wrote a book about it. While I was living there I was (very officially) a buitenlander (outsider) and vreemdeling (stranger). I had hoped that my Dutch friends would reject the kool-ade and adopt sensible immigration policies. They have not. Now I wonder if there is any safe place to go to if the wheels fall off here. New Zealand perhaps?

Pity. NL was my kids birth nation (although they are American) and that was my intended refuge in the possible times of strife and turmoil to come. I could more easily assimilate there, since my grandfather's grandfather is originally from there, and our name is common there. Maybe they still can save their nation from the "Moroccans".

Blogger SciVo February 29, 2016 7:22 AM  

I can see it taking several generations to being fully civilized because part of it is a genetic selection thing, but in THAT case we’re all about somewhere close, myself included. Several generations to be fully American? Oh, take a powder. You need to be an idiot to believe that.

That is literally like claiming that we don't have a psychological culture, which is like saying that it's invisible to them, which means that they don't share it yet. Maybe their grandkids or great-grandkids will.

I will link once again to what has become one of my favorite articles of all time, The Jacksonian Tradition by Walter Russell Mead:

What came next surprised almost everyone. The tables turned, and Evans’ Americans "americanized" the immigrants rather than the other way around. In what is still a largely unheralded triumph of the melting pot, Northern immigrants gradually assimilated the values of Jacksonian individualism. Each generation of new Americans was less "social" and more individualistic than the preceding one. American Catholics, once among the world’s most orthodox, remained Catholic in religious allegiance but were increasingly individualistic in terms of psychology and behavior ("I respect the Pope, but I have to follow my own conscience"). Ties to the countries of emigration steadily weakened, and the tendency to marry outside the group strengthened.

Outwardly, most immigrant groups completed an apparent assimilation to American material culture within a couple of generations of their arrival. A second type of assimilation—an inward assimilation to and adaptation of the core cultural and psychological structure of the native population—took longer, but as third, fourth and fifth-generation immigrant families were exposed to the economic and social realities of American life, they were increasingly "americanized" on the inside as well as without.

This immense and complex process was accelerated by social changes that took place after 1945. Physically, the old neighborhoods broke up, and the Northern industrial working class, along with the refugees from the dying American family farm, moved into the suburbs to form a new populist mix. As increasing numbers of the descendants of immigrants moved into the Jacksonian Sunbelt, the pace of assimilation grew. The suburban homeowner with his or her federally subsidized mortgage replaced the homesteading farmer (on free federal land) as the central pillar of American populism. Richard Nixon, with his two-pronged appeal to white Southerners and the "Joe Six-pack" voters of the North, was the first national politician to recognize the power of this newly energized current in American life.

Urban, immigrant America may have softened some of the rough edges of Jacksonian America, but the descendants of the great wave of European immigration sound more like Andrew Jackson from decade to decade. Rugged frontier individualism has proven to be contagious; each successive generation has been more Jacksonian than its predecessor. The social and economic solidarity rooted in European peasant communities has been overmastered by the individualism of the frontier. The descendants of European working-class Marxists now quote Adam Smith; Joe Six-pack thinks of the welfare state as an expensive burden, not part of the natural moral order. Intellectuals have made this transition as thoroughly as anyone else. The children and grandchildren of trade unionists and Trotskyites now talk about the importance of liberal society and free markets; in the intellectual pilgrimage of Irving Kristol, what is usually a multigenerational process has been compressed into a single, brilliant career.

Anonymous Steve February 29, 2016 7:29 AM  

My wife, who is a proud Southron Shitlady but still sweetly naive about some things (she's a Ben Carson fan), had a difference of opinion with me on immigration recently.

We were watching childrens TV with our toddler-man, and I noted how the BBC tries to shove multiculti down their throats at every opportunity.

Steve: "I'm getting sick of seeing all these foreigners on CeeBeebies."

Mrs Steve: "How can you say that? America is a nation of immigrants!"

Steve: "This isn't America, darling."

Mrs Steve: "THAT'S WHY YOU SUCK!"

Anonymous VFM #6306 February 29, 2016 7:30 AM  

Hoyt was sold a bill of goods, bought a bill of goods and is now selling a bill of goods to make the model viable for as long as the suckers last.

It is a pyramid scheme.

They are Amway-Americans.

Blogger Nate February 29, 2016 7:37 AM  

"When they shot at British soldiers?"

Australians are not Englishmen. And Australians never shot at Brits.

No. They ones who were born here were not englishmen and never were englishmen. They may have had similar values, but similar is all they were.

Anonymous Steve February 29, 2016 7:40 AM  

Australians are not Englishmen.

They just wish they were.

Blogger SciVo February 29, 2016 7:41 AM  

GJ wrote:A question for both sides: is the average black person in the US an 'American', by your definition?

Sure. But not the 70 average IQ ones straight from Africa. Just the 85 average IQ ones that have been here for centuries. (Gee, I wonder how they got to be exactly halfway between northern Europeans and sub-Saharan Africans?) Again, The Jacksonian Tradition:

"The degree to which African-American society resembles Jacksonian culture remains one of the crucial and largely overlooked elements in American life. Despite historical experiences that would have completely alienated many ethnic minorities around the world, American black popular culture remains profoundly—and, in times of danger, fiercely—patriotic. From the Revolution onward, African Americans have sought more to participate in America’s wars than to abstain from them, and the strength of personal and military honor codes in African-American culture today remains a critical factor in assuring the continued strength of American military forces into the twenty-first century.

"The underlying cultural unity between African Americans and Anglo-Jacksonian America shaped the course and ensured the success of the modern civil rights movement. Martin Luther King and his followers exhibited exemplary personal courage, their rhetoric was deeply rooted in Protestant Christianity, and the rights they asked for were precisely those that Jacksonian America values most for itself. Further, they scrupulously avoided the violent tactics that would have triggered an unstoppable Jacksonian response.

"Although cultures change slowly and many individuals lag behind, the bulk of American Jacksonian opinion has increasingly moved to recognize the right of code-honoring members of minority groups to receive the rights and protections due to members of the folk community. This new and, one hopes, growing feeling of respect and tolerance emphatically does not extend to those, minorities or not, who are not seen as code-honoring Americans. Those who violate or reject the code—criminals, irresponsible parents, drug addicts—have not benefited from the softening of the Jacksonian color line."

Blogger Stilicho February 29, 2016 7:43 AM  

What we obtain to easily, we esteem too lightly. If citizenship were difficult an arduous to obtain and required a demonstrable belief in and commitment to the "Rights of Englishmen" then and only then could mere citizenship be a somewhat reliable marker for being an American. Even then, the power of numbers and in-grouping would overwhelm any such demonstrated commitment in all but the rarest cases.

Anonymous Morgan February 29, 2016 7:46 AM  

"I am an American.’ It still is, because of the great history that lies behind the phrase; but now any Jew, Polack or Wop, spawned in some teeming ghetto and ignorant of or cynical toward American ideals, can strut and swagger and blatantly assert his Americanship and accepted on the same status as a man whose people have been in the New World for three hundred years.”- Robert E. Howard to H. P. Lovecraft

Anonymous Steve February 29, 2016 7:56 AM  

Britain has been a successful multi-ethnic state for hundreds of years.

But not without cost. Ask the Irish. Or the Scottish Gaels, if you can still find any.

It took generations of brutal repression (and longer periods of soft colonisation through schools and mass media) to keep the very similar Anglo-Celtic peoples of the UK together long enough to develop a common identity. And even that can't be taken for granted - the Scots very nearly left the union recently.

Chances of turning a pot pourri of ethnicities from east of the Suez and south of the Nile into functioning Britons are somewhere between zero and bugger all.

Blogger SciVo February 29, 2016 8:01 AM  

Reflecting on my last comment, one of the striking things for me about the comments of buwaya puti -- a San Franciscan Filipino -- has been his inability to see how integrated American blacks are. I wonder if that could be used as a test of Americanism, because the psychologically unintegrated blacks are more attention hogs. If you don't even perceive our values-deep culture (let alone participate in it), then you can't see the modest ones that have honor and belong.

Blogger Gaiseric February 29, 2016 8:02 AM  

I've known exactly ONE immigrant that I believe I could count as an American. He spoke with a strong accent, was occasionally even difficult to understand. But he had thoroughly rejected the values of his home culture and thoroughly embraced the values of America. Our fathers were right to keep immigration percentages in the low single digits for generations. People like him are much more exceptional than he realizes.

I found one of her off-hand comments amusing. She assumes that the folks here who comment "follow [his] lead." Well, that may be true, but I much rather suspect that the Ilk come here because they've self-selected to come here; they already agree with the majority or at least a broad plurality of the ideas expressed here, and aren't following ANYONE'S lead but their own.

Which is actually entirely in character with the American spirit. All of these folks who want to bin people into groups; they obviously don't understand that American ideal of the rugged individualist, self-educated and articulate on political and social issues, not dogmatic or indoctrinated, and self-reliant. "Beholden to no man," as the saying goes.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan February 29, 2016 8:07 AM  

A multi-cultural political entity has to be propositional and propositional must limit speech. Sarah being a female wishes for that speech to be limited by scoldings and at worse a time out from gainful employment, we call that liberalism. But standing right behind those nice liberal American citizens are violent bigots who soon won't need such nice white ladies to run the day care center we call 'Murka they will do it themselves for themselves and Sarah and her nice white lady ilk will have one position in that oligarchy and that involves being on their backs.

Blogger VD February 29, 2016 8:09 AM  

She assumes that the folks here who comment "follow [his] lead."

How dare she insult my Vile Faceless Minions in that manner! They do not follow my lead. They mindlessly obey my commands!

Blogger pyrrhus February 29, 2016 8:12 AM  

Yes, now I recall that Amanda is the neo-marxist side man for Sarah Hoyt; she doesn't believe in genetics, since we are all "equal"....

Blogger James Dixon February 29, 2016 8:12 AM  

> If that's the case, then how does an event like the American Revolution apply? At what point did the Founding Fathers change their nationality? Or were they simply rebellious Englishmen, and the American Nation didn't really appear until later generations?

Jamestown was founded in 1607. The oldest families had already been here for over 150 years by the time of the revolution.

Blogger SciVo February 29, 2016 8:12 AM  

VD wrote:A question for both sides: is the average black person in the US an 'American', by your definition?

No. They are a nation unto themselves, as many of them will not hesitate to tell you. Read Fred Reed on this, he's very good on the subject.

Many of you seem to be confused by what a "nation" is. It's not your fault, you've been maleducated on the subject. A nation is not political borders, it is simply an extended genetic family with a shared language and culture.


Indeed. And of what we could call our "heritage" American blacks -- the ones that have been here for far longer than fifty years -- it seems like they all have whites and Indians somewhere in their ancestry. Some seem to not have a first language, but of the native English speakers, they are also genetically and culturally American.

Anonymous kfg February 29, 2016 8:13 AM  

"Beholden to no man," . . .

. . . is the true statement of The American Dream, rather than The American Dream(tm).

Blogger Gaiseric February 29, 2016 8:14 AM  

Deadlocked wrote:If the way VD defines and describes a nation is correct, a person can't really change their own nationality. The only thing they can do is change their children's nationality by moving, ensuring their cultural assimilation and encouraging them to intermarry. Am I getting this right?
It's not VDs definition. It's THE definition. Even Wikipedia gets it right, for crying out loud. Haven't you heard of the concept of the nation-state? Do you even understand what a nation-state is?

Our terminology has become confused because we use the word state not as it was originally intended, but in a way that formerly would be province, maybe, or some other internal division. That's a little bit of linguistic slight of hand started with the federalization inherent in the Constitution and formalized with the Civil War and conquest of the formerly independent yet loosely allied states of the South. Because of that we say state when we mean something more like province, and we say nation when we mean something more like state, and we don't actually believe in the concept of an American nation very strongly.

Blogger rumpole5 February 29, 2016 8:15 AM  

VD is entirely correct, as usual. I hale from extreme Northern Indiana where my German ancestors plowed the first furrows (Daniel Cripe) and drained virgin swamps (John Lerner). Before them there was mostly wilderness. However, the society they created was more protestant German than American. The area contains two other nation edges. Within 10 miles one can drive out of my German Midlands nation into Michigan's Yankee nation, or into St. Joseph county's Catholic immigrant (Polish, Hungarian, Irish) nation. The three areas are fundamentally distinct, even though located within easy biking distance of each other. Moreover, as one goes 50 or so miles south, Indiana becomes increasingly Applachian nationesque because that territory was settled from Kentucky instead of Ohio and Pennsylvania. These are entirely separate cultures that merely tolerate each other's values and cultural norms.

Blogger Johan February 29, 2016 8:16 AM  

I'm wondering what it takes to be real American. My ancestors hail from Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden and Finland and moved here in the late 1800s-early 1900s. I don't have a single drop of Anglo-Saxon blood in me. In outlook and personality, I can tell I am Prussian (or at least what the stereotypes of Prussian are). So am I a man without a nation?

Blogger Sam February 29, 2016 8:17 AM  

Allan Bloom and Straussian Alienation
By Claes G. Ryn
http://www.nhinet.org/epistulae18.htm

"Bloom’s book actually took its place within an old, large and familiar genre, that of turning America and its origins, especially the so-called Founding, into something different from what they actually were. Intellectuals uncomfortable with America’s traditional culture had long tried to recast and replace it. Because Americans were, when these efforts first got underway, strongly attached to that culture and had a particular fondness for the Constitution as the political essence of the American tradition, attacking these head-on was not a very promising way of weaning Americans off traditional allegiances. Instead, these intellectuals adopted a strategy of deception and, in some cases, perhaps self-deception. Great energy went into persuading Americans that America’s pedigree was not what it had seemed to be. America, they asserted, was not an outgrowth and continuation of Western classical and Christian civilization, as mediated by British culture, and affected also by more recent ideas. America represented a departure from or outright rejection of the bad old days of Europe. America was based not on a rich, complex, slowly evolved European heritage, but on abstract, ahistorical principles...

"Whole ideologies and mythologies have grown up that draw attention away from America’s actual past and make Americans of an older type, the WASPs in particular, feel defensive and even out of place, certainly not entitled to any special status. The desire to have America be something different from its historical past and to make it perhaps also more palatable to an aspiring new elite is probably most evident and explicit in Bloom’s fellow Straussian Harry Jaffa. Jaffa has made a career of asserting that America must not, repeat, not, be understood as owing anything of importance to an old historical heritage. It must be seen as born out of a radical break with the past and as based on abstract principles..."

Blogger Copperheaded February 29, 2016 8:17 AM  

I can settle this:

I Am a Real American

Blogger pyrrhus February 29, 2016 8:18 AM  

The line between Sarah and the ordinary SJW is diminishing rapidly, isn't it--thought police everywhere....

Blogger Johan February 29, 2016 8:21 AM  

So I guess what I am saying in comment #88, is that I am not an American. I am a Wisconsinite. Wisconsinites are very northern European in outlook. We followed the Prussian model with our support of big government and don't grok the founding principles of the nation. I guess Vox is right.

Anonymous FriarBob February 29, 2016 8:25 AM  

Not sure about the rest, but considering the timing of the supreme court decision that created/confirmed the "corporate democracy" you've at least got the NAME wrong on America 3.0. Because we weren't in ANY way a republic anymore at that point.

Anonymous Eric the Red February 29, 2016 8:25 AM  

The Affirmative Action Pustule should just issue an Executive Order that makes everyone in the world a U.S. citizen. According to useful idiots like S.Hoyt, everyone is already just an idea or two away from being an American anyway. All they have to do is think a few freedom-like thoughts, read the drivel on the base of the Statue of Liberty, and presto-changeo they're Americans! Granting citizenship at that point is a mere formality.

Blogger James Dixon February 29, 2016 8:28 AM  

> So I guess what I am saying in comment #88, is that I am not an American.

Whereas I'm a Virginian. A western one to be precise, but that's not as important as some make it out to be.

Anonymous Steve February 29, 2016 8:28 AM  

In outlook and personality, I can tell I am Prussian

If you were in charge of executing the Schlieffen Plan, would you:

a) Keep the right flank strong.

b) Decide to respect Dutch neutrality and concentrate on attacking through Belgium instead?

Blogger Salt February 29, 2016 8:28 AM  

Deteminator wrote:According to wiki, Sara Hoyt became a citizen when she was 26 years old, I was unable to determine when she actually moved here. Regardless, it's well past her formative years.

accordingtohoyt | February 28, 2016 at 3:59 pm | Reply
Look, guys, I grew up there.


She must have experienced being American at the local bijou.


Anonymous Big Bill February 29, 2016 8:28 AM  

By Sarah's estimation, clit-chopping is "American" too.

The vast majority of Somali-American women chop their daughters' genitals off to make them more "attractive" and marriageable to Somali Muslim males.

I call that barbarian and would sent them all home to Somalia. I would not imprison them as "American" criminals. They are not American, nor do I expect them to act like Americans.

I respect different cultures (even very diverse barbarian cultures) too much. Just send them all back home.

Blogger Happy Housewife February 29, 2016 8:29 AM  

Wasn't being European one of Sarah's main defenses last year against an SJW attack for using a supposed racial slur? She was born American apparently, but sure likes to trot out her beginnings in a poor Portuguese village when it suits her.

Blogger pyrrhus February 29, 2016 8:31 AM  

I think there is one thing that made the original Americans special, genetically and in terms of culture. They had the nerve and courage to travel 3000 miles on leaky ships to a howling wilderness with no welfare or workhouses, in the belief that they could create a better and freer existence through sheer hard work and force of will.....as my kids point out, most humans won't do that, and wouldn't succeed if they tried.

Blogger Gaiseric February 29, 2016 8:31 AM  

Johan wrote:So I guess what I am saying in comment #88, is that I am not an American. I am a Wisconsinite. Wisconsinites are very northern European in outlook. We followed the Prussian model with our support of big government and don't grok the founding principles of the nation. I guess Vox is right.
I'm an ethnic Texan. A post-American. My ancestors—at least most of them—were American, but I'm increasingly skeptical that the American experiment at running as a loose confederacy of allied nations was ever going to lead to actual American nationalism. We've spiked on occasion, had times when we had incipient American nationalism. But for my money, it's still anyone's guess if we'll actually get that this time around, or if the various American nations have strayed too far to ever really unite again, even as loose allies, much less as anything that resembles a singular One Nation Under God.

Blogger Johan February 29, 2016 8:48 AM  

@96

I'd keep the Right Flank strong. We're already invading through Belgium, who cares if we ignore Dutch neutrality as well. My goal is to win the war.

Anonymous Eric the Red February 29, 2016 8:49 AM  

The globalists preach their seductive religion of multiculturalism, sucking in those who believe in magic dirt and a proposition nation. But the globalists are pulling a fast one on everybody, because their end goal is to reduce the world's population to 500 million people who are Exactly.Like.Themselves.

If you or your society is living a lie, reality will always intrude to bite you in the end. For example, there will never be enough medical care to go around; it must be rationed some way, either by the market or by the almighty state. The same with making a viable nation: you either maintain a single cultural ethno-state via restrictive immigration policies, or else you maintain it via force by waging bloody repression for as long as it takes to make everyone conform. There is no happy-talk multi-culti proposition nation middle way; historically every time that's been tried has disintegrated into dismal failure.

Blogger SciVo February 29, 2016 8:50 AM  

buwaya puti wrote:But Spain is still distinctly different. I can't understand Gallegos any better than I can my Brazilian neighbor. And though technically Basque, it is a language from beyond Alpha Centauri. Spain did not ethnically cleanse anyone but Jews and Moslems. Those other aliens are still there, saying viva when the king shows up. And I'll put money on the Catalans staying. They've been leaving in a huff for three hundred years.

If that language (which I'm not familiar with) is so different, it's because the Basque are an indigenous people that the Spanish failed to completely exterminate, because mountains. So every now and then a bomb goes off, because they would like their land back. You're seriously choosing the wrong example.

But it's true that the Catalans won't leave, because their posture is a negotiating tactic for mo' money. Which they already get too much of, and then pretend not to, because that would hurt the negotiation. So on that point I agree with you.

Anonymous kfg February 29, 2016 8:52 AM  

"I'm an ethnic Texan."

This tends to support my prediction of how the country will break up. Texas to once again hoist the Lone Star, rather than join with Dixie.

Anonymous Athor Pel February 29, 2016 8:53 AM  

"56. Anonymous Deadlocked February 29, 2016 6:10 AM
...
At what point did the Founding Fathers change their nationality? Or were they simply rebellious Englishmen, and the American Nation didn't really appear until later generations?"


The founding fathers were never Englishmen. From what I remember they were all born in America.

Several of the colonies had long periods of self governance or no governance as is the case with Pennsylvania, and they did just fine. And the further west you went at that time the less outside interference the settlers had and the more independent they were by necessity.

Outside of easily controlled urban areas the post-revolution American government could only enforce compliance in the far west part of one state during the Whiskey Rebellion, because it had the help of wealthy locals. All other far western territories easily resisted the tax.

You let a man live on his own for a considerable period of time and then try to tell him how to go about his business. Since he is doing just fine on his own he sees no reason to listen and in fact is annoyed by anyone assuming to know his business.

That there are more slave minded people today is indicative of how our society is structured. Most people work for someone else, for wages. They don't work for themselves, they don't grow their own food, they don't provide for their own protection in any of a number of ways. Most of us are dependent on the goodwill of our self-appointed masters and the good functioning of the systems in which we've generationally placed ourselves. That we individually were born into this does not excuse us from setting out on a new course.

Blogger dc.sunsets February 29, 2016 8:58 AM  

I'd prefer America 1.0 to be the Revolutionary period including the Articles. The Constitution of 1787 was a complete repudiation of the Revolution, a coup de tat complete.

That said, the life cycle of the USA is simply part of a larger cycle, that described by the Dark Enlightenment.

With the Reformation came the dismantling of widely-held belief in human hierarchy. The trend toward Equality of Men (and then women, then deviants, soon to be animals and plants I suppose) a theology without deity took hold, grew during the Industrial Revolution, Puritanism became Progressivism, governments of limited powers broke their chains and became full theocracies united under the banner of compelled equality of (some) outcomes, even when equality of an outcome violated the common sense of a 5 year old (e.g., women infantrymen.)

Leftism is a religion, animated by belief in a magical means to alter objective reality via incantations written on paper (fiat legislation.)

Hierarchy is deemed evil, and intolerance of theocratic dogma is intolerable. Differentiation (including nationalism) is blasphemy. Borders are blasphemy. All opposition is blasphemy.


Blogger Nate February 29, 2016 8:59 AM  

" Texas to once again hoist the Lone Star, rather than join with Dixie."

Texas really has no business being involved with Dixie. Texan culture is very... very different than Southern Culture. One need only examine Texas' idiotic firearm laws and compare them with those of Alabama or Georgia or Tennessee to see the difference. (and yes Texans... I know you're all proud that you finally got a law passed. Congratulations. Your laws are now almost as good as Ohio's.)

I suspect Texas and Dixie would make very close, and strong allies, because they have much in common. But that's it.

Blogger dc.sunsets February 29, 2016 9:04 AM  

The Left Turn of the West has gotten so tight that the tiger has begun tearing apart its own hindquarters (blacks are turning on gays are turning on Latinos are turning on women are turning on...)

If the USA (and West in general) continues on this path, a full scale Killing Fields is inevitable. I doubt this will happen; at least in America people are way too heavily armed, so a dissolution of central authority is far likelier.

I concur with Vox on one thing; people who write speculative fiction seem remarkably wedded to straight-line projection in their real lives, revealing a startling lack of both imagination and logical reasoning.

Anonymous kfg February 29, 2016 9:05 AM  

@Nate: Exactly.

Blogger Gaiseric February 29, 2016 9:06 AM  

@104: He's more wrong than he things. Gallego is the Spanish word for Galician. The Galicians are like the Catalans, except more hillbilly and more closely aligned linguistically with Portugal than with Spain. The are a rump nation of pseudo-Portuguese Iberians. They don't have anything whatsoever to do with the Basques.

Blogger tz February 29, 2016 9:07 AM  

@106 - so the magic dirt of the Eastern USA changed Englishmen into Americans?

Someone pointed out that importing southern and eastern Europeans aided progressivism as they tended toward Roman rule-by-experts, judges over Juries.

I'm for America 1.0, but realize that you have to eject or destroy the Morlocks who aren't (Wright's term - in fact that is his argument against anarcho-libertarianism).

There will be enough of your own that will bend just slightly to alien demands each year that in a decade you will lose your country.

Sarah Hoyt is not American not because she is from Portugal, but because she is still Portugese enough to want to retain those things which are utterly anti-American but currently law. Her admixture Americanism is how and why we fell. When you peel the layers away, you don't find her demanding we only accept Jefferson, or even Hamilton, but Wilson or Roosevelt. Lincoln is the test once you know the actual history. A Lincolnian should not be allowed in.

Blogger SciVo February 29, 2016 9:07 AM  

Be Not Afraid wrote:Also, I agree with Vox's America timeline, and yes, the original America is dead and buried. It's entirely possible we're spinning apart like Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia did, but will it be relatively peaceful, or bloody.

Well, that's the tricky thing. We don't want blood, so we'll do what it takes avoid it -- but only if we think it's likely. So we need to expect it in order to avoid it, you dig?

Blogger Gaiseric February 29, 2016 9:07 AM  

@108: That's my projection as well. The very easternmost edge of Texas—Orange, Vidor, etc. culturally maybe belong with Dixie. But Texas is its own thing, kinda South, kinda West, closely allied kindred spirits to both, but not really either.

Blogger bob k. mando February 29, 2016 9:12 AM  

55. Steve With The Wind February 29, 2016 6:07 AM
They even have Piggly Wiggly, which is the best name for a grocery shop ever.



there are Piggly Wiggly's in Wisconsin. i never saw one in Florida. YMMV.



81. VD February 29, 2016 8:09 AM
How dare she insult my Vile Faceless Minions in that manner! They do not follow my lead. They mindlessly obey my commands!



Vox Popoli, a proposition nation of commentators.

Blogger Nate February 29, 2016 9:12 AM  

"I'm wondering what it takes to be real American"

were you born in america? Were your parents born in america? Were your grand parents born in america?

Then you're an american.

Blogger SciVo February 29, 2016 9:15 AM  

Deadlocked wrote:At what point did the Founding Fathers change their nationality?

They changed their nationality when they changed their culture. Indians fought differently than Europeans, more "total war" style of villagers against villagers, so the colonists had to adapt or die.

Then they ceased to be British when they became more brutish, and of course the actual British couldn't outdo their tactics for the same reason why the locals had to change. So the outcome was foregone.

Blogger Josh February 29, 2016 9:24 AM  

A question for both sides: is the average black person in the US an 'American', by your definition?

In the South, yes.

Blogger Neanderserk February 29, 2016 9:25 AM  

Here's my attempt at understanding VD's chronology of the US.

America 0.5: The Plantations 1610-1789 (Not the Colonies. White slave society.)
America 1.0: Constitutional America 1789-1865
America 2.0: American Empire 1865-1913 (post civil war)
America 3.0: Republican US 1913-1941 (Fed+PopSenate+IRS to WWI) http://www.freemansperspective.com/1913-america/
America 3.1: Early Imperial US 1941-1965 (ends with Civil Rights, Johnson Great Society)
America 3:2: Latter Imperial US 1965~2033 (mass immigration, Fed bubble collapse, sclerotic imperial bureaucratic Cathedral overreach, world war)
America 4.0: Post-US~2033 (dissolution, irradiated rubble, dictators, internecine war)

Blogger Nate February 29, 2016 9:29 AM  

"there are Piggly Wiggly's in Wisconsin. i never saw one in Florida. YMMV."

They are all over the south. from KY to AL

Blogger Neanderserk February 29, 2016 9:35 AM  

The future is not set, Trump reduces probability of war, the above is my expansion at top and bottom, etc.

Anonymous kfg February 29, 2016 9:35 AM  

@112: "so the magic dirt of the Eastern USA changed Englishmen into Americans?"

No, the natural environment over generations did. And in the case of my father's fathers, they were English separatists who stuck the first shovels into the American dirt intending to build the "Shining City on a Hill."

I'm not sure the Big Dig was what they had in mind.

"Were your grand parents born in america?"

I win! But only just on my mother's side.

Anonymous Steve February 29, 2016 9:35 AM  

Bob K Mando - Vox Popoli, a proposition nation of commentators.

Vox should start an offshore military dictatorship called Outer Heaven. I'd join if Quiet does.

Johan - Das ist correct!

Blogger Neanderserk February 29, 2016 9:41 AM  

The disturbing thing about VD's chronology is that it seems to argue that unlike Rome, America has compressed 2x historical Glubbian 240 year cycles into a 1x time frame. I suppose there are reasons why this would be possible, and I suspected compression, but hadn't actually mapped it out in such detail.

Is it properly imperial though, or merely aristo-imperial? Without the debt-fuse on the nuke-bomb, I think it'd be reasonable to expect a true imperial post-America, with an emperor. Egypt survived a lot of race mixing, after all.

So, maybe the compression isn't quite 2x, but there's still significant compression. Maybe 1.5x.

Anonymous kfg February 29, 2016 9:41 AM  

" . . . of course the actual British couldn't outdo their tactics for the same reason why the locals had to change."

The Long Rifle, the most advanced sniper weapon in the world at the time, was invented as a squirrel gun.

The environment shaped the people who shaped the war in all sorts of non-obvious ways.

Blogger bob k. mando February 29, 2016 9:45 AM  

120. Nate February 29, 2016 9:29 AM
They are all over the south. from KY to AL


a - Florida is the 'South'. not many there, Wiki says less than 10. i'm assuming they're all up in the panhandle or JAX.
b - they're all over Wisconsin and Illinois. Minnesnowta even has some. doesn't sound very Southron to me. Flyover? yes. Southron, no.
c - YMMV



108. Nate February 29, 2016 8:59 AM
I suspect Texas and Dixie would make very close, and strong allies, because they have much in common. But that's it.



Texas being one of the few nations founded on the explicit principle of the foundational necessity of slavery ( the precipitating cause for the Texican Revolution / Alamo being that Mexico was trying to make slavery illegal. no, Hollywood doesn't like to talk about the REASON FOR the Alamo ).

general question:
what are the three categories of Citizenship? what are the differences between them?

Blogger SciVo February 29, 2016 9:48 AM  

Johan wrote:I'm wondering what it takes to be real American. My ancestors hail from Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden and Finland and moved here in the late 1800s-early 1900s. I don't have a single drop of Anglo-Saxon blood in me. In outlook and personality, I can tell I am Prussian (or at least what the stereotypes of Prussian are). So am I a man without a nation?

Do you value your good name over your life? Would you be ashamed to take charity, but not to take the benefits of social insurance, such as Social Security and Medicare? Are you proud when you learn a DIY skill, such as how to make your own AR-15 lower receiver?

Anonymous The Original Arrogant Steelers Fan February 29, 2016 9:51 AM  

"America 2.0: American Empire 1865-1913"

This is laughably inaccurate. America never qualified as an Empire because it never reveled in Empire.

"America 2.0: America Reorganized as a Corporation, 1865-1913" is much more accurate.

The Act of 1871 essentially dead-letterd the US Constitution and granted DC the impunity to become the greatest den of thieves the world has ever known and will ever know.

Blogger Bodichi February 29, 2016 9:52 AM  

@124 Nean

Thinking the same thing. Have you ever read Strauss and Howe? It all seems to point to the next 10 - 15 years.

Blogger Gaiseric February 29, 2016 9:54 AM  

@126: Northern Florida is The South. Peninsular Florida is more like Caribbean Spanish that has been colonized by generations of Americans, especially retirees, from all over the country.

Also: That's not exactly correct about Texas. It was ONE of MANY despotic rulings by the Mexican government against the Anglo-Texan settlers. It wasn't even the one that sparked open revolt—that would be Santa Anna's brother-in-law, General Martin Perfecto de Cos landing with troops at Copano and the march to and subsequent battle of Gonzalez.

Blogger James Dixon February 29, 2016 9:54 AM  

> They are all over the south. from KY to AL.

There are even two in WV. None close to us though. :(

Anonymous kfg February 29, 2016 9:54 AM  

"America never qualified as an Empire because it never reveled in Empire."

Oooooooh nooooo, don't throw me into the briar patch.

Blogger Neanderserk February 29, 2016 9:55 AM  

There is nothing new under the sun, but some technology is newish. I guess it comes down to a race between MIRV ICBMs and the Internet.

Printing press vs. atom bomb. Who wins? I can't tell. Although the last printing press certainly didn't REDUCE war.

Blogger Bodichi February 29, 2016 9:55 AM  

@128 Steelers fan

"This is laughably inaccurate. America never qualified as an Empire because it never reveled in Empire"

There are some South American countries and some middle eastern countries and some CIA agents that would beg to disagree with you. Our political culture necessitated that we could not "revel" in empire but it had to be done in secret, yet empire it was.

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr February 29, 2016 9:59 AM  

I think Vox and Sarah are BOTH mistaken...by about 50% or so.

The Untied States is not merely a propositional nation. There is a unique American culture, one which someone not born and raised in the United States may admire and attempt to adopt, with some success. But the immigrant will never have the same degree of assimilation as the native-born. His or her descendants will, especially if the immigrant intermarries with natives. Sarah's children are unquestionably Americans. The big problems arise when immigrants settle in self-contained groups and don't properly assimilate.

But neither is the United States a mono-genetic nation. Even at the time of the Revolution, we had English, Welsh, Scots, Germans, and a smattering of other groups. We're mongrels. European mongrels, to be sure, but the sort of very tight gene pool you would find in Europe is loosened here.

And yes, this does weaken our national unity...which means that the multi-cultural hatemongers are EXTREMELY dangerous. Because they undermine the cultural unity of the United States.

Anonymous kfg February 29, 2016 9:59 AM  

@133: There is a school of thought that communication contributes to companionship, as people realize that they have so much in common.

My empirical observation, however, is that, more often than not, the greater the degree of communication between people, the faster they realize how much they hate each other's guts.

Blogger SciVo February 29, 2016 10:00 AM  

kfg wrote:"I'm an ethnic Texan."

This tends to support my prediction of how the country will break up. Texas to once again hoist the Lone Star, rather than join with Dixie.


Was there any doubt? At this point, I think they're just staying in as a favor to the rest, so we don't lose their electoral votes before that doesn't matter any more.

Blogger Jack Ward February 29, 2016 10:04 AM  

Sarah may be advocating 'propositional' citizenship; whatever the hell that is. I see Mr. Beale as having, perhaps, accented a point of definition by alienating what I had seen as a real friend and supporter [Sarah Hoyt]. OK. Its his blog, he does what he will. He's very often very very right. When he's wrong [not often I admit] he can be very wrong. In this case I see him as wrong to trod over what was a friend and, probably, a pretty good American to make this point. I suppose, operating under the mantle of things like Roberts rules, and other devices of logic you can go where he went. I will not stop coming here over this [remember very very right, when right] but I think it may not be with the same adoration for a champion of the 'good fight.' I'm pretty sure he doesn't give a flying crap for what I think. Fine. But, someone or ones did mention up page about his living in Italy for the last 20 years or so. Does that mean his perspective on what is American has been corrupted? Fair is fair. If S. Hoyt can be criticized for being 'un-American' for not having been born here can not Beale be criticized for having his thinking corrupted by the European mind set?
I suppose all his material I read from now on out will be colored by that filter. Maybe that's a good thing.

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr February 29, 2016 10:05 AM  

BTW, Athor Pel is right. If you dig into Colonial history, the colonies were accustomed to running their own internal affairs. The American Revolution is a jurisdictional dispute between the British Parliament and the American Colonial legislatures.

Blogger Neanderserk February 29, 2016 10:10 AM  

But wait... there IS a reason the internet would reduce war.

The printing press supplied difficult to suppress heretical propaganda, but it was slow and read-only. States coordinated much faster.

The internet is read-write, and coordination is practically instantaneous. The internet is massively inside the state OODA loop.

Furthermore, the state tipped its hand too early. Mass immigration is training the internet to engage in effective anti-state heresy.

That is awesome! No fate!

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 February 29, 2016 10:10 AM  

Immigrants, regardless of their legal status, don't get to dictate culture. They are foreigners and it is epitome of rudeness to do so.

I don't hear of Vox telling Italians how to be Italian.

Blogger Nate February 29, 2016 10:12 AM  

"Texas being one of the few nations founded on the explicit principle of the foundational necessity of slavery"

***eye roll***

Anonymous kfg February 29, 2016 10:13 AM  

@134: That's what I said @132.

@137: I have had to argue it. There are still those who view Dixie as "The South" as the Confederate states.

Blogger Dave February 29, 2016 10:13 AM  

The ruthless Spockesque (Spockian?) logic brought me here; the laughs keep dragging me back.

Blogger SciVo February 29, 2016 10:17 AM  

bob k. mando wrote:general question:

what are the three categories of Citizenship? what are the differences between them?


What is this, a pop quiz? Fine, I'll bite:

1. Resident
2. Native
3. Decider

#1 gets to live there, #2 belongs, and #3 answers questions such as by voting (or by social influence if not in a democracy).

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents February 29, 2016 10:19 AM  

kfg
I have sturdy locks on the sturdy doors to my house, because they serve good purpose. Sturdy locks on my nation serve the same purpose.

Sometimes I ask libertopians if they have locks on their doors. They always do. Then I ask why. They always have an answer of some sort along the lines of "keep bad people out".

Then I ask them why they are racists who hate their neighbors.
Libertopians never get that part.

Blogger SciVo February 29, 2016 10:25 AM  

The Original Arrogant Steelers Fan wrote:"America 2.0: American Empire 1865-1913"

This is laughably inaccurate. America never qualified as an Empire because it never reveled in Empire.


Two words: Monroe Doctrine. The U.S. had aspirations to empire before the Civil War, which is probably why it became one.

Blogger Salt February 29, 2016 10:27 AM  

More transamericanism

http://thelibertyzone.com/2016/02/28/an-american/

Blogger Dexter February 29, 2016 10:27 AM  

America never qualified as an Empire because it never reveled in Empire"

There are some South American countries and some middle eastern countries and some CIA agents that would beg to disagree with you. Our political culture necessitated that we could not "revel" in empire but it had to be done in secret, yet empire it was.


His reference to laughable inaccuracy was the description of America 1865-1913 as an Empire. So your critique is off. But he's still wrong. It is pretty clear that we reveled in the ass-kicking we put on Spain and in the subsequent conquest and control of Cuba, Puerto Rico, Guam, the Philippines, etc.

Anonymous BGKB February 29, 2016 10:34 AM  

I also see it as being extremely vulnerable, and demonstrably difficult to defend

No white man should die fighting to defend the America of single moms with 21 crackbabies, welfare, section 8, & affirmative action.

He’s become European through and through. He doesn’t wish the US well

Wishing well =/= racking up more debt to pay for handouts for foreigners, the vast majority that have crossed the border since democrats changed immigration policy have been negative assets to the nation.

unhinge him is say the US will survive Bunkered Down Low Bath House Barry is never outside in an open area

It's always interesting how people constantly mistake observation for endorsement.

BGS: you should use condoms instead of relying on medication that is hard on the kidneys/liver, costs the taxpayers/insurance plan over $1500 a month & doesn't prevent all STDs.

Critic: Why do you hate gays?

Anonymous Brick Hardslab February 29, 2016 10:34 AM  

So if in 500 years my Guatemalan neighbors never learned Spanish, how long before these illegal aliens become American? 500 years, a thousand? When? Some of the men and most of the women don't speak Spanish. They are an utterly alien enclave and their children (cute as they are) are not American. So when?

They are just one example. I am really sick of foreigners telling me how to run America. Go back to your Third World hellhole or European nation being turned into the Dar es Salaam.

You guys don't get it if America isn't allowed to remain American peacefully we'll find another way or go out trying. Is that what you want?

If you're here and you're a foreigner, shut up. If you're a US citizen but weren't born here, listen to those of us who are. If you are a US citizen but advocate ending America you aren't American and never were.

Anonymous kfg February 29, 2016 10:35 AM  

Hawaii, Guam and the Philippines were taken for the naval support we needed to realize our ambitions in China.

Blogger SciVo February 29, 2016 10:37 AM  

kfg wrote:@137: I have had to argue it. There are still those who view Dixie as "The South" as the Confederate states.

Well, they've obviously never been to Texas then. Lone Stars aren't shy about their state pride. They'll tell you to your face about how their writ of membership in the U.S. explicitly gave them a right to secede, and how they'll use it if they want to.

And then they'll reject out-of-state driver's licenses for proof of drinking age, and get all butthurt if theirs are rejected here. Double-standard assholes.

Blogger Nate February 29, 2016 10:37 AM  

" I have had to argue it. There are still those who view Dixie as "The South" as the Confederate states."

Well you have to remember.. a whole bunch of Tennesseans killed and died freeing Texas. It made a ton of sense for Texas to go with the CSA back then.

Now though... its abundantly clear that Texas has little in common with us. Not to say we would kick her out of bed for eating crackers... nor is it to say that she would be a disruptive force in our government. But she simply is different... and should govern herself.

Blogger Nate February 29, 2016 10:39 AM  

'They'll tell you to your face about how their writ of membership in the U.S. explicitly gave them a right to secede, and how they'll use it if they want to."

which is peak retard. Its like saying you were explicitly given the right to breath by the US Government.

The US Government doesn't give rights.

Blogger Gaiseric February 29, 2016 10:45 AM  

Well you have to remember.. a whole bunch of Tennesseans killed and died freeing Texas. It made a ton of sense for Texas to go with the CSA back then.

Because Texas was settled by a bunch of Tennesseeans. It was a colony, if you will, of Greater Appalachia.

And Greater Appalachia's tight alliance with the Deep South was actually more a reaction to the carpetbaggers than it was to anything happening before Lincoln's War. The borderlanders who were the core settlement group of Texas were always nearly as suspicious of the elitist southern plantationers as they were of the totalitarian Yankees. Nearly, anyway.

Blogger James Dixon February 29, 2016 10:46 AM  

> I see Mr. Beale as having, perhaps, accented a point of definition by alienating what I had seen as a real friend and supporter [Sarah Hoyt]

Sarah is the one who started this rigmarole, not Vox. Vox has been linking to, and commenting on, Sarah's posts. And as far as I can tell she's never been particularly fond of Vox. If you have a problem with events, take it up with her.

Blogger Bodichi February 29, 2016 10:51 AM  

@149. Dexter

"So your critique is off"

Yep, good call.

Blogger Gaiseric February 29, 2016 10:53 AM  

which is peak retard. Its like saying you were explicitly given the right to breath by the US Government.

The US Government doesn't give rights.


That's not a Texas thing. That's a MPAI thing. That particular manifestation seems to be regionally constrained to Texas, however.

Blogger tz February 29, 2016 10:55 AM  

The average black person is not a Jefferson/Jacksonian, so no. Most weren't born during the 1960's integration / desegregation experiments where Federal Judges ordered cross town busing and the whites packed up and moved to the suburbs.

There is a reason there are what amounts to ethnic enclaves for blacks and their culture. They have rejected integration. We are more segregated now than under Jim Crow. When I was growing up, there was my own ethnicity which had a sub-culture we honored although I was assimilated (Even in areas without the ethnic minority, there's ethnic food). But that was fading through intermarriage and assimilation. As I said, I know much more about English history because that is what is important to being an American.

How much of pre-1776 American and English history does Sarah Hoyt know? How many "Americans", native or immigrant know about the Magna Charta, the Levelers, Blacks Law Dictionary?

(I'd add classical literature - Basically a good homeschooling curriculum. "A Thomas Jefferson Education").

The typical - average? - black neighborhood is less assimilated than my Grandparents were by the time they moved into their neighborhood in the early 1900s. They already were learning and perfecting English, not trying to create a different dialect.

I can find a few flaws even in Walter Williams and Thomas Sowell, though not Clarence Thomas who might not be a Scalia but understands. Tyler Perry? Whoppi Goldberg?

In the first part of the 1900s we had this great thing called Blue Collar jobs where you could raise a family and become middle class and have your children educated (even in Prussian model schools, but they learned) and have a comfortable life even with a below average IQ. The managers, engineers, and others made more but there was a feeling of fairness - they pushed their children to learn to move up, but knew they would at least be safe if they didn't follow through.

Hence Trump. Instead of minimum wage servers, he wants to restore a more closed economy where the rich have to pay for the labor of USA poor to make them middle class instead of welfare. Even the quasi-"disabled" now who could work for double or triple their checks.

The elite have destroyed themselves, Trump is the least bloody resolution. The alternative is to have the cities burn. Less will be left of Atlanta than after Sherman. The people in their gated communities don't realize their fences are about what secures the southern border. The whole society there is so interdependent and dependent on long supply chains and other logistics. Remember the EBT system failure? The big power failure for days a decade ago (not in freezing weather but in the summer)? Both the welfare and the elites will be acting like the Priests of Baal in increasing frenzies calling on the God of Government which will already have failed.

This would be another question for Hoyt - how dependent is she on Government or Crony corporations? Minimal, moderate, or completely? To be American means to answer that with "minimal".

Blogger Nate February 29, 2016 10:57 AM  

"It was a colony, if you will, of Greater Appalachia."

easy... using the term Greater Appalachia betrays a tacit affection for a particularly terrible map of the supposed regions of the US.

it implies that the mountains of East TN have the same kind of people as Arkansas and west TN... and it is laughable. In reality much of east TN was unionist during the war.

Appalachia should actually be separate.. and it should be two seperate states. Northern Appalachia.. with eastern KY.. western VA and WV, and southern appalachia that would be East TN and West NC.

Blogger VD February 29, 2016 10:57 AM  

alienating what I had seen as a real friend and supporter

If someone can be alienated by a simple statement of fact, they are not a real friend and supporter. Who is, and who is not, a [fill-in-the-nation-name] is going to be one of the single most important questions being asked and answered in the next two decades.

Families and friendships are going to be torn apart over it. If you find this mild and civilized disagreement to be difficult, you are going to have a very hard time of it in the years to come.

Blogger Nate February 29, 2016 10:58 AM  

"The average black person is not a Jefferson/Jacksonian, so no. "

Neither is the average White Person.

Anonymous John Podhoretz February 29, 2016 11:00 AM  

But….but…buutttt…Muh EMMA LAZARUS!

Blogger Gaiseric February 29, 2016 11:03 AM  

Nate wrote:"It was a colony, if you will, of Greater Appalachia."

easy... using the term Greater Appalachia betrays a tacit affection for a particularly terrible map of the supposed regions of the US.

it implies that the mountains of East TN have the same kind of people as Arkansas and west TN... and it is laughable. In reality much of east TN was unionist during the war.

Appalachia should actually be separate.. and it should be two seperate states. Northern Appalachia.. with eastern KY.. western VA and WV, and southern appalachia that would be East TN and West NC.

I'm not an expert on the particulars of the population of Tennessee, but being for or against the Union was never sold in Woodard's book as a definitive trait of being part of Greater Appalachia. It was the suspicion of any outside authority figure; and the calculus that various members of the nation made in which was more likely a worse threat to their freedom and particular way of life: the elitist plantation owners or the Yankees. Or in other words, your assessment and Woodard's aren't mutually exclusive.

Blogger Nate February 29, 2016 11:08 AM  

". It was the suspicion of any outside authority figure; and the calculus that various members of the nation made in which was more likely a worse threat to their freedom and particular way of life: the elitist plantation owners or the Yankees"

and I would simply argue that just as Texas is culturally different and views government differently than Dixie does... the same applies to the Hill folk of Appalachia.

Blogger Nate February 29, 2016 11:08 AM  

contrast that with Alabama, Georgia, TN, and South Carolina which all have extremely similar views.

Blogger Nate February 29, 2016 11:09 AM  

mississippi and louisianna as well.

Anonymous kfg February 29, 2016 11:13 AM  

@152 SciVo: "Well, they've obviously never been to Texas then."

I spent a year in Laredo one weekend.

@158: "That particular manifestation seems to be regionally constrained to Texas, however."

Vermonters claim that their treaty guaranteeing them the right of secession was signed by George Washington hisself.

Blogger James Dixon February 29, 2016 11:16 AM  

> ...and I would simply argue that just as Texas is culturally different and views government differently than Dixie does... the same applies to the Hill folk of Appalachia.

I can't argue with that. I'm not sure where eastern NC fits into the mix.

Blogger Gaiseric February 29, 2016 11:20 AM  

@168: Laredo? That's your benchmark?

From Wikipedia on the demographics of Laredo:

As of the 2010, Laredo is the 81st most populous city in the United States and the 10th largest in Texas. According to the 2010 census[2][16][17] there were 236,091 inhabitants in the city.

According to the 2010 U.S. Census, the racial composition of Laredo was as follows:

Whites: 87.7%
Black or African American: 0.5%
Native American: 0.4%
Asian: 0.6%
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander: 0.00%
Two or more races: 1.5%
other races 9.3%
Ethnically, the city was:

Hispanic or Latino (of any race) - 95.6%

I wouldn't use Laredo as a benchmark for Texas. Lubbock or Amarillo, or Fort Worth, or some place like that where it hasn't been partially swamped by people moving in due to economic opportunity from other parts of the country, is what you want to look at.

Blogger Salt February 29, 2016 11:21 AM  

James Dixon wrote:I'm not sure where eastern NC fits into the mix.

Makes me think of an incident in Maryland years ago, when the Governor referred to the eastern shore as the shithouse side. A ditty came to be, ending in...

"We don't give a damn about the whole state of Maryland, we're from the eastern shore."

Anonymous Instasetting February 29, 2016 11:22 AM  

Three points....

1. Its clear enough from the 'let your chains lie upon you lightly' and historically how many of the American colonials were Loyalists, and left America that birth ain't all there is to America. Nowadays, a Communist American is not an American.

2. America at the time of the Revolution...Yankees, Lowlanders, and Highlanders. Its not a homogenous race, which is a lie used by Yankees to oppress others in their 'group'.

The Yankees pushed through the Civil War. The Lowlanders created slavery. Both positions are strongly anti-small gov't.. The small gov't part of America is Appalachia.

3. As to exiling with thought police those with divergent ideas, I reccommend L.E. Modestit jr.'s Saga of Recluse. At one point, the Island of Recluse which is a haven of Order exiles some guy who is a different form of Order. Not enough to exile Chaos borne, but even different flavors of your same thing. The exiling of not sufficiently correct individuals is a recurring incident in the books.

Anonymous kfg February 29, 2016 11:26 AM  

"Laredo? That's your benchmark?"

No, that's my joke.

Blogger tz February 29, 2016 11:31 AM  

@146 Exactly - libertopians are good in theory but nothing else.

I have weak doors with weak locks I never engage and I leave my key in my car so I never forget it. If I ever travel for a few weeks I might lock my doors.

But I don't live in the big city anymore, and we're sort of big on having guns here so although no one could tell you about the "Non-Aggression Principle", those who violate it tend to be instant winners of the Darwin award - but it only happens every few years and usually to outsiders.

Even sturdy doors are an illusion - windows can be broken. Back in Detroit, most homes have iron bars over all the windows and doors and someone I knew missed one in the bathroom so she was broken into.

Some place faith in physical barrier,
but that won't substitute for noble character.

Here's another test - do you want everyone except the insane and people convicted of violent felonies who can't handle them to have guns? Do you believe helping the poor and sick is NO part of the state and the Churches should step up? Do you believe that there should be a way to live an ordinary good life with practically ZERO involvement of government?

Where's Sarah on these?

Even as a propositional nation, it is NOT a cafeteria. You see in her discussions she wants to be mostly free but not entirely free, and the horror and evil of her position is not that She doesn't mind a little tyranny and slavery, but that she would impose that on me and everyone else and yet call herself an American.

At some point while thinking through years ago I came to the same fork and Sarah has taken the road more traveled. What did my Father fight for and was wounded for in WW2? Eventually it was clear the only honest answer was somewhere at Originalist constitutionalism or less (I'm prepared to argue the merits of the Articles of Confederation but only note that you can't extrapolate everything would be wonderful had the constitution been rejected - the problems would be different).

The other thing which goes back to the libertopians, is that it is clear that if you really, really desire an anarcho-libertarian society, you must be willing to kill those who with full knowledge and malice aforethought initiate force or do fraud without mercy. They aren't merely taking something, they are destroying the foundation. If you are not, and they don't always get caught, eventually they will see it not as a sacred principle but an economic calculation.

The same is true even at the Originalist level. The church must be rich in mercy, the state, or the body of legal temporal principles, must show none, the key difference is any state must be limited by procedure - warrants, due process, etc.

Anonymous Trimegistus February 29, 2016 11:32 AM  

The US wasn't an empire post-1865 because it meddled in the Caribbean. It was an empire because the Yankee metropole (New England-Midatlantic-Midwest) ruled the rest of the continent in a manner not dissimilar to how the British ruled India. The colonies (the South, the West) were allowed some internal autonomy but could not challenge the primacy of the metropole.

When that began to break down and the colonies got restive after WWII, the metropole brought the richest colony (California) into the ruling coalition and doubled down on oppressing the rest. Race relations, which the metropole had ignored for a century, suddenly became a highly useful divide-and-conquer tactic.

Anonymous The Original Arrogant Steelers Fan February 29, 2016 11:35 AM  

@134

@149

As a mythical citizen of the mythical US Empire, I have yet to receive any land grants from conquered lands, 0 percent tax rates, extremely cheap energy from cakewalk wars, etc. etc. etc.

So…

You both mistake empire for a unique phenomenon in history that I've dubbed as the “THE UNITED STATES Corporate Stupidpire.”

Instead of collecting lucrative tributes from its colonies for the enrichment of its Kingdom, the Stupidpire dispatches its agents to make sure that its colonial shill governments get their printed funny-money at the expense of the Stupidpire's citizenry. This is all so that said shill-government will marginally carry out the Stupidpire's agenda for the short-term enrichment of the Stupidpire's trust-fund-baby-1-percenter elites.

Also, as opposed to how empires hold on to their interests with a death grip, notice how easily the Stupidpire is defeated.

The Big Phat Greeks get annoyed by their bad debts and threaten a mere referendum, and all of a sudden…

1. The PIGS get a chance to make like bandits by welching on their debts and cutting deals with the BRICS.
2. NATO unravels.
3. The EU is dissolved.
4. The IMF shutters up.

The US Corporate Stupidpire has many other failings, but that’s for another post.

Blogger tz February 29, 2016 11:40 AM  

@162 - Quite true. Add Asians.

@161 Families and friendships are going to be torn apart over it. If you find this mild and civilized disagreement to be difficult, you are going to have a very hard time of it in the years to come.

It is already happening across the Cruz/Trump divide. It is becoming the anointed of God v.s. the Antichrist on one side (Glenn Beck is merely the most prominent - today he even said if Cruz is failing to Rubio he will tell Cruz to get out since Trump must be stopped). The other side knows nothing that even gives the establishment or an insider any quarter will work, that at best Cruz will flail and whine and complain and yap when McConnell and Ryan push through Obama's third term. There are some real discussions, but most is irrational vitriolic invective.

Buchanan took over the Reform party and flamed out. Trump is taking over the GOP - and the GOP is threatening to form a 3rd party. Please! Please! Please! - then they can run the cuckservatives (Would a cuckoo make a good mascot) where they have to identify as such, so the incumbents can leave the GOP.

Blogger Ian Miguel Martin February 29, 2016 11:42 AM  

"A question for both sides: is the average black person in the US an 'American', by your definition?"

No. It should be very telling that by and large, and collectively, they don’t even call themselves Americans.

Barack Obama, like many blacks, in fact hates America. This is primarily because he was taught to hate America. As was I. Personally, I’m ambivalent. I'm grateful for the material abundance, but at the same time I will never be willing to forgive the insult of hypodescent, and my status as a second class citizen.

It’s arguable whether this hatred and ambivalence is justified, but make no mistake: it’s there.

“God damn America!”

Blogger tz February 29, 2016 11:42 AM  

@175 The Philippines and I think it was Perry's Black Ships going to Japan? Even the Mexican-American war prelude, and going on the gold standard (not minting an official silver coin from the Comstock Lode so they could be more compatible with Europe).

Blogger digra February 29, 2016 11:45 AM  

Same way the Left continues to distort the boundaries of gender, truth or consent, now they're moving on to ethnic identity. Once they're done, it will be a buffet for all r-selected individuals.

Anonymous BGKB February 29, 2016 11:47 AM  

Buwawa Your alien invaders ? I speak their languages (some anyway), and know whats what.
So I'm in a fairly good place to say that the echo chamber here may be going off the rails


I see your "speak languages" and raise you "dated my fair share of Hispanics". The fact that they disbelieve in doing what is right even if no one is watching is enough to not want more of them in the US or given affirmative action token spots in Those Who Hold Up The Sky

A question for both sides: is the average black person in the US an 'American', by your definition?

I have never meet a black that didn't want more free stuff given by the govt, but have heard that those trying to achieve are OREOS(white on the inside).

"The average black person is not a Jefferson/Jacksonian, so no. "Neither is the average White Person

With Common Core in a few years the average white person will not even know what Jefferson/Jacksonian is

Blacks don't like Hispanics but...free stuff...when the fighting starts which way are their guns

Ethnic cleansing of Compton and Harlem should indicate. Mexicans think they are as smart as whites and work harder than blacks.

They even have Piggly Wiggly, which is the best name for a grocery shop ever.

You would think they would expand up north to be a safe space from moslems grocery store

The Big Phat Greeks get annoyed by their bad debts Racked up by none ethnic (((greeks))) for non ethnic greeks.

Blogger Joshua Sinistar February 29, 2016 11:48 AM  

None of you will believe this but these deluded globalists have served a purpose. Europeans have been divided for too long. The alien populations of inferior scum outnumber them, but their far proximity has allowed the Europeans to not see the truth. Now the invaders have shown White Aryans what the truth is and Europe must unite to destroy the invaders and parasites.
I intend to rebuild the Holy Roman Empire. Europe must unite, but the globalist Satanic disease must be removed and eradicated completely. The inferior races must either bow or die. There is no room for equality. Equality is just another Big Lie of the enemy to dispute our Manifest Destiny of being the Master Race. Christ is our King and he shall rule the World. We are the Master Race chosen to rule.

Blogger VD February 29, 2016 11:53 AM  

I will never be willing to forgive the insult of hypodescent, and my status as a second class citizen.

But you're not a second-class citizen. Legally, you're equal. It's merely social.

Anyhow, you raise a good point. White liberals always assume that mixed-race people will think like they do, except gratefully. They could not be more wrong.

Blogger VD February 29, 2016 11:57 AM  

I intend to rebuild the Holy Roman Empire.

Fine, but I insist you call yourself Emperor Norton I

Blogger Matamoros February 29, 2016 11:58 AM  

@18 VD "Many of you seem to be confused by what a "nation" is. "

I remember reading a book on international law that stated that a nation is a tribal grouping. A country with a number of nations is not a nation, but an empire.

America required its citizens up until recently to renounce foreign national ties and to adopt those of America solely. Sadly this has gone by the way.

Blogger Gaiseric February 29, 2016 12:00 PM  

Ian Miguel Martin wrote:Barack Obama, like many blacks, in fact hates America. This is primarily because he was taught to hate America. As was I. Personally, I’m ambivalent. I'm grateful for the material abundance, but at the same time I will never be willing to forgive the insult of hypodescent, and my status as a second class citizen.

It’s arguable whether this hatred and ambivalence is justified, but make no mistake: it’s there.

Not because he's black, though. Rather, it's because he's white. He was raised by his white, Marxist grandparents and mother in an elite, white, private school setting.

They hate America just as much, but for none of the same reasons.

Blogger Nate February 29, 2016 12:07 PM  

"They hate America just as much, but for none of the same reasons."

You also can't ignore the anti-colonialist politics he has... which make no sense to americans because they have nothing to do with america... but if you want to grasp why Obama has such a hard time with our allies.. that part is key. Its not just incompetence... its also animosity born from an alien political ideology.

Anonymous Spartacus xxxxx February 29, 2016 12:08 PM  

Ian Miguel Martin wrote:Barack Obama, like many blacks, in fact hates America. This is primarily because he was taught to hate America. As was I. Personally, I’m ambivalent. I'm grateful for the material abundance, but at the same time I will never be willing to forgive the insult of hypodescent, and my status as a second class citizen.

It’s arguable whether this hatred and ambivalence is justified, but make no mistake: it’s there.


A. Barack Obama, like many blacks, in fact hates America.

B. at the same time I will never be willing to forgive the insult of hypodescent

See the problem?

Anonymous Jack Amok February 29, 2016 12:12 PM  

The founding fathers were never Englishmen. From what I remember they were all born in America.

The majority of the colonists thought of themselves as Englishmen. The Revolution happened because the political big-wigs back in England didn't. They were treated like a conquered colony of foreigners who didn't rate the rights and representation of Englishmen. It was after that they decided - or perhaps realized - they weren't Englishmen any longer.

That's an important thing about Nationality - it's not what you think you are - it's whether the other people in that nation accept you as one of them. The English stopped accepting their cousins in North America as Englishmen. That's when Americans really became Americans.

Blogger Escoffier February 29, 2016 12:14 PM  

NateFebruary 29, 2016 10:58 AM
"The average black person is not a Jefferson/Jacksonian, so no. "

Neither is the average White Person."

Not sure I agree. White Americans have had the full weight of the edutainment system propogandizing and marinating them in anti-whiteness. Yet I find more and more seem to be rejecting this and inchoately questing toward something else. Is it Jacksonian? Nationalist, I'm not sure but I see a change.

Anonymous Jack Amok February 29, 2016 12:14 PM  

Appalachia should actually be separate.. and it should be two seperate states. Northern Appalachia.. with eastern KY.. western VA and WV, and southern appalachia that would be East TN and West NC.

Where do you put Missouri?

Anonymous JI February 29, 2016 12:19 PM  

What's the difference between "American Empire" and "Republican US"?

Blogger Matamoros February 29, 2016 12:23 PM  

Blacks had a chance to be Americans, and had they followed Booker T. Washington instead of DuBois they could have been.

Many tried to be, but Johnson's Great Society ended that effort.

On the other side Separate but Equal was the best that Blacks could hope for, as it allowed them to have their own nation within the larger America that could progress as it wanted, so long as it left White Americans alone. The Black enterprise and attempts to mimic their White neighbors to build a strong cohesive society was destroyed by the Civil Rights Movement and White do-gooders.

Blogger Escoffier February 29, 2016 12:26 PM  

NateFebruary 29, 2016 10:58 AM
"The average black person is not a Jefferson/Jacksonian, so no. "

Neither is the average White Person."

Not sure I agree. White Americans have had the full weight of the edutainment system propogandizing and marinating them in anti-whiteness. Yet I find more and more seem to be rejecting this and inchoately questing toward something else. Is it Jacksonian? Nationalist, I'm not sure but I see a change.

Blogger Nate February 29, 2016 12:36 PM  

Missouri is in a tough spot. It is kind of like Texas in that it has a lot in common with Dixie.. but it distinctly is not Dixie.

Blogger Eric Castle February 29, 2016 12:40 PM  

@31 Visit Boise, Idaho or another of the Basque enclaves and ask just how much love they have for the Spanish proposition nation theory. They understand nation as family clans quite well.

Not to mention that Spain only worked for the aforementioned Inquisition to remove the less desirable elements of Grenada, et al. but also because a dynasitic union between Aragon and Castille worked as they were similar families culturally. Not that their Empire really went anywhere ultimately.

Blogger John Williams February 29, 2016 12:45 PM  

Sarah is a Trojan Whorse, coming in here, disguised as an American, then opening the gates at 4:00am to the illegal mob.

Blogger LP9 Rin Integra S.I.G. February 29, 2016 12:51 PM  

Post Ameircant's and Post Ameriwont's refuse the evidence around them of great decline.

America will receive a leader in accordance to its scaled decadence and decline.

Blogger Nate February 29, 2016 12:52 PM  

"Sarah is a Trojan Whorse"

There is no call for that. Sarah's white knights have acted like idiots. There is no reason to join them in their idiocy.

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