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Thursday, March 31, 2016

Clutter and Clean Cycles

Thanks to all those Americans born everywhere from Afghanistan to Zimbabwe, even those who are enamored of diversity are beginning to notice that ethnically heterogeneous societies don't tend to survive economic crashes very well:
While it is difficult for anybody who knows the Pentagon well to imagine American generals and admirals getting together to overthrow the civilian government — that would require obscene amounts of PowerPoint and might endanger top brass golden parachutes with Beltway Bandits — the notion of a Civil War 2.0, however terrifying it may be, needs to be faced squarely, if we wish to avoid that awful fate.

America in the 21st century runs little risk of becoming Honduras Grande, but if current politico-economic trends continue much longer, we might well wind up a lot like Yugoslavia. That statement is sure to be controversial, since few Americans, citizens of the global hegemon and to many of them a most exceptional country, like to be compared with a relatively small Balkan federation that collapsed into wars and genocide a generation ago.

Yet the collapse of Yugoslavia offers several cautionary tales to Americans today, and if they are wise they will heed them and set the United States on a correction course before it is too late. As one who witnessed the dreadful collapse of Yugoslavia and its terrible aftermaths — including the seemingly permanent impoverishment of Southeastern Europe, mired in crime, corruption, and extremism — I would very much like America to discover a far happier fate. However, some of the parallels are eerie and troubling....

Managing this increasingly fissiparous country as economic prospects diminish will challenge the most gifted politicians. Indulging in ethnic resentments as a substitute for solutions to vexing politico-economic problems only makes things go from bad to worse, sometimes rapidly and painfully. With both our parties increasingly beholden to Wall Street at the expense of Main Street, average Americans of all backgrounds will not be happy that they are bequeathing a life of less affluence and opportunity to their children. In such a time of troubles, playing ethno-racial political games as a substitute for reform is deeply irresponsible.

It would be nice if Democrats and Republicans played better together, particularly on the budget and borrowing money. It would be especially nice if they seriously addressed issues of rising economic inequality and diminishing opportunities for average Americans.  But it is imperative that they not fan the flames of ethnic and racial resentments if they wish to avoid a terrible outcome for our country.
The nation is already broken and divided. What is now being done to the nations of Europe was already done to the USA back in 1965. There is no longer an Anglo-American nation with a moderate admixture of other European nations, now it is a merely a political entity with dozens of rival ethnic and religious interest groups jockeying for power and a share of the income redistribution.

As with Yugoslavia, the structure will hold so long as it doesn't come under excessive financial stress. This is why I have long predicted the 2033 timeframe, as I thought that's about when the US dollar will fail as the global reserve currency. Considering the current state of China, it's possible that timeframe is too optimistic, but regardless, there is still time to prepare for the Yugoslavication and dissolution of the USA.

Choose your location carefully, and with an eye to the future, as who and what you are is likely to matter with regards to your ability to remain there. I can assure you that the idea of ethnic cleansing and forced relocations on the North American continent is neither a new nor an unthinkable idea. Just ask any American Indian.

Just as there are economic boom and bust cycles, there are longer-term demographic clutter and clean cycles. We are at the peak of the greatest demographic clutter cycle in human history, one that has lasted nearly 200 years. This tends to suggest that we are in for the mother of all clean cycles.

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209 Comments:

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Blogger Nate March 31, 2016 11:33 AM  

"As with Yugoslavia, the structure will hold so long as it doesn't come under excessive financial stress. This is why I have long predicted the 2033 timeframe"

2015 was to pessimistic on my part... but I still say you're a pollyanna for stretching it to 2033.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother March 31, 2016 11:35 AM  

2020 is my pick. My youngest son will be out of diapers by then.

Anonymous Quartermaster March 31, 2016 11:38 AM  

My kids have been out of diapers for over 30 years. However, that is irrelevant or my prediction of 2020 at the outside.

Blogger J Van Stry March 31, 2016 11:41 AM  

Yup, it's coming. I don't think they could stop it now if they got their act together and tried. The only question now is how bloody will it be, and what will we be left with afterwards.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan March 31, 2016 11:42 AM  

The day after a real leader tells the plurality whites they will no longer be abused by the epithet "racist."

Something like that was the spark in Yugoslavia with the Serbs

Blogger Salt March 31, 2016 11:45 AM  

Thanks to all those Americans born everywhere from Afghanistan to Zimbabwe

With the exception of Portugal, naturally.

Anonymous Takin' a Look March 31, 2016 11:48 AM  

OT but wonderful news Sick Pedophile-Supporter Bitch fired by Nintendo

Anonymous VFM #6306 March 31, 2016 11:54 AM  

Safe, familiar, stable locations in the U.S. to retreat to:

Minneapolis, MN
The suburb of Compton, CA
Baltimore, MD
Detroit, MI

Oh, that is if you are - respectively - Somalian, Mexican, Feral or a Ghost. I think that covers everyone.

Anonymous Broken Arrow March 31, 2016 11:56 AM  

10 demographic trends that are shaping the U.S. and the world | Pew Research Center

Of course these predictions are based upon a fairly peaceful and static world, but the die has been cast.

Anonymous Midnight Avenue J March 31, 2016 11:58 AM  

I'm thinking Idaho or Western Montana for light haired, blue- and green-eyed, white people who work trades and homestead for a living.

New Jersey is likely to be highly contested ground, a hot-war zone if things get really tough, despite living as rural as possible absent possession of large tracts of farmland.

Anonymous Philipp March 31, 2016 11:59 AM  

I have thought too that the USA might end up like Yugoslavia. The prospects of a declining multi-national (or multi-racial) empire do not look good.

"But when decline sets in, it is extraordinary how the memory of ancient wars, perhaps centuries before, is suddenly revived, and local or provincial movements appear demanding secession or independence. Some day this phenomenon will doubtless appear in the now apparently monolithic and authoritarian Soviet empire."

Sir John Glubb, 1976

Blogger tz March 31, 2016 11:59 AM  

Also insure that it can sustain itself when things break down. I'm surprised Europe can afford the refugees.
Choosing to remain in a big city will be problematic if you depend on the local stores and their logistics for basic necessities.
You can only burn it down once, and the magic FEMA summoning ritual will be about as effective as the priests of Baal.

Blogger YIH March 31, 2016 12:00 PM  

VFM #6306:
Ah, you noticed things are getting chimpy in the Twin Cities as well.

Blogger Werekoala March 31, 2016 12:03 PM  

Utah. Lived there for 5 years and loved it. It's highly defensible, and not yet overly-diverse. There's a reason the Mormons settled there.

Anonymous kfg March 31, 2016 12:04 PM  

"That statement is sure to be controversial . . ."

He don't know us so good, do he?

Blogger Ingot9455 March 31, 2016 12:06 PM  

If the Mormons let you stay, Werekoala.

Blogger FALPhil March 31, 2016 12:07 PM  

... and if they are wise they will heed them and set the United States on a correction course before it is too late.

There are too many "feelers" who are emotionally invested in the wrong attitudes for this to happen. You can change a thinker's mind with facts, but with feelers, facts fall on deaf ears.

OpenID denektenorsk March 31, 2016 12:08 PM  

I'm surprised Europe can afford the refugees.

They can't. The UN predicts Sweden will collapse into a 3rd world country by 2030.

Wait until Hanz and Franz get the bill for all of their new friends. There is a simmering resentment between West and East Germany over the cost of reunification... mix in the rapey foreigner and guilt over WW2 will only keep the lid on it for so long.

The EU has informed Britain that no they are not really a sovereign nation and cannot restrict benefits to migrants 'cos "human rights" (despite that the migrants didn't contribute a red cent to the economy). That sort of fairy tale can only continue for so long.

Anonymous kfg March 31, 2016 12:09 PM  

"You can change a thinker's mind with facts, but with feelers . . ."

. . . it takes a .45.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan March 31, 2016 12:12 PM  

It's not like right wing whites invented identity politics, but we sure do get our faces shoved into that steaming pile enough. So much so that the Cuckservatives have taken to holding the heads of the bad whites down in it

Hang the cucks

Blogger Nate March 31, 2016 12:16 PM  

Broken Arrow wrote:10 demographic trends that are shaping the U.S. and the world | Pew Research Center

Of course these predictions are based upon a fairly peaceful and static world, but the die has been cast.


demographic predictions are worthless. ALl they show is trend lines. but demographics change over night. massive sea change happens.. just like that.

Look at Russia. for decades we've been hearing how they are dying. in fact some of the less-informed are still selling that line of bull.

demographics is both everything... and nothing at all.

OpenID denektenorsk March 31, 2016 12:17 PM  

10 demographic trends that are shaping the U.S. and the world | Pew Research Center

Interesting that they project the black population is static at ~13%. As I've said before they will wish for the day when the white devil ruled the place. Sans white guilt the Latinos and Asians will have no problem crackin' skulls when the situation warrants it.

Anonymous ZhukovG March 31, 2016 12:17 PM  

In Dixieland, I'll take my stand.

OpenID denektenorsk March 31, 2016 12:19 PM  

Utah. Lived there for 5 years and loved it. It's highly defensible, and not yet overly-diverse. There's a reason the Mormons settled there.

Aside from the liquor laws I enjoyed my visit there. Salt Lake City was very clean.

Blogger FALPhil March 31, 2016 12:22 PM  

10 demographic trends that are shaping the U.S. and the world | Pew Research Center

Of course these predictions are based upon a fairly peaceful and static world, but the die has been cast.


That report was fodder for politicians to use while mentally masturbating possible strategies for capturing voting blocks. There was no accounting for anything besides a peaceful transition.

Blogger Nate March 31, 2016 12:25 PM  

Speaking of clean cycles... I just saw this commercial on TV... and I can't help but think this is going to end... very badly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v2DU1DUbAY

Blogger Verne March 31, 2016 12:28 PM  

Funny the way we in the USA seem to think the Serbs were less civilized than we are, that the Germans were less civilized than we were. When if anything they are more civilized than we are. We are every bit as likely to descend into genocide as them. We only need a massive economic failure to start it. Make us uncomfortable enough and we will stop ignoring those groups who already hate us, assault us and murder us. If things fall apart those groups will only become more violent towards us. Those who are peaceful now, it is because they rely on the law. When we see the law failing and we need to give up on it. It will be bloody. There will be genocide if that day comes. We are no better humans than the Serbs and Germans were before us.

Blogger tz March 31, 2016 12:28 PM  

@13 - but but but, aren't the natives, the somali, and the rest all the same?
@14 - Wyoming - the lastest "discussion" on PBS didn't go well for those who want more than 5 we've taken in since 9/11.
The American Redoubt is based on religion/culture, not race, but the constitutional conservative filter suffices to filter out most anglos. There is also "the southern redoubt" for Dixie and a few others, most often referred to as "occupied territory".

Another point is whether after TSHTF you can get somewhere or if you will be welcome there.

I don't think it will be 2033. We will be lucky to get to 2020. Trump might put this off a bit.

Anonymous Cinco March 31, 2016 12:31 PM  

@Nate Look at Russia. for decades we've been hearing how they are dying. in fact some of the less-informed are still selling that line of bull.

“World Population 2012″ projects the population growth, or decline, of every country and continent, between now and 2050 ... Between 2012 and 2050, Ukraine, war or no war, will lose one-fourth of its population. Eleven to twelve million Ukrainians will vanish from the earth, a figure far higher than the highest estimate of the death toll of the horrific Holodomor of 1932-33. Russia will lose 22 million people, with her population falling below 121 million. Every month between now and 2050, close to 50,000 Russians will disappear. Some demographers believe the UN numbers to be optimistic. Indeed, this writer has seen projections far more dire.

From Forbes 12 Mar 2015: One month does not make a conclusive trend, but Rosstat just released its preliminary demographic data for January 2015 and the results are ugly. Compared to the previous year, deaths were up and births were down by 2 and 4% respectively. This means that the overall natural movement in population for the month was -25,000, compared to only -15,000 the year before.

Do you have a more recent source for Russian demographics? I am truly curious, as I site this particular demographic issue quite a bit.

Anonymous kfg March 31, 2016 12:37 PM  

"In Dixieland, I'll take my stand."

And for those who can tolerate Yankeeland, the Adirondack, Green and White Mountains offer solid strategic and tactical opportunities.

Remember Fort Ti!

Blogger Servant of the Chief March 31, 2016 12:38 PM  

I think the more popular term is ''Balkanization''

Blogger Matamoros March 31, 2016 12:44 PM  

Off topic, but I see where Feminist Child-Sex Advocate Alison Rapp was fired from Nintendo. Another victory for gamergate.

Blogger pyrrhus March 31, 2016 12:45 PM  

There will likely be a major food crisis in the 2020s, as topsoil, farmland in general, and fresh water are disappearing at a rapid pace. The US/Canada are still in good shape, but our politicians may want to give our food away to 3d worlders--and that will have to be stopped. In any event, the US Empire will be toast by 2031, so VD can't be far off....

OpenID denektenorsk March 31, 2016 12:46 PM  

Speaking of clean cycles... I just saw this commercial on TV... and I can't help but think this is going to end... very badly.

Soros can help them out. Oh wait...

Blogger Matamoros March 31, 2016 12:46 PM  

Sorry #7 - Missed your post before I commented.

Anonymous Pol Mordreth March 31, 2016 12:48 PM  

ZhukovG wrote:In Dixieland, I'll take my stand.

I'm with you. Already have the acreage, building up to self sufficiency with codependence on my scots-irish neighbors. I put the crisis between 2020 and 2024, depending on whether the Donald is lying or not.

Anonymous Cinco March 31, 2016 12:50 PM  

It only gets worse for Russia as the immigrants move in

It appears that the sudden change in the total population of Russia was more due to economic benefits for immigrants than actual changes in the Russian Birthrate. Which makes sense if we consider that the Russian economy was doing better for a while so more women could afford to have children.

But despite often heated rhetoric from the Kremlin (and from some members of the liberal opposition) virtually nothing was done to actually halt the flow of migrants: they were simply too important to too many different parts of the economy.

For the love of money is the root of all evil.

Blogger John Williams March 31, 2016 12:51 PM  

Demographics are nothing but a snapshot in time. 11 April 1861, 27 July 1914, 28 Oct 1929, 6 Dec 1941, 10 Sept 2001 are just a few examples with indications of what was going to happen next.

Blogger Thomas Davidsmeier March 31, 2016 12:53 PM  

Geez, Debby Downer. What would Cernovich say about your lack of positivity?

Though seriously, this is getting more and more terrifying all the time.

Blogger pyrrhus March 31, 2016 12:53 PM  

I currently live in the mountains of Southern AZ. There are no vibrancy problems here, due to a heavy preponderance of whites, Spanish, and hispanics. Hispanics/the Cartel won't tolerate any acting out by minorities....But in the long run, I think the safest places, if you have the money and stockpiled food, are in the mountainous areas of Wyoming, Montana, Washington...Does anyone have other ideas?

Anonymous RedJack March 31, 2016 12:54 PM  

Spent some time interviewing around the Midwest over the last few months (yes, very limited region). I noticed something right away. I currently live in eastern Iowa (near Farmer Tom). The area has slid in the last 12 years I have been here, but I didn't really get a chance to see how far till I went to South Dakota, Kansas (central) and western Iowa. Where I live, it is a shooting and gun fight every day. Every. Dang. Day. My Daughter's private school is right on the line. In say, northwest Iowa, the only shooting was two guys trying blow up some Tannerite and forgot to tell the neighbors what they were doing. Bad crime is someone spray painting stop signs and running red lights.

Here, if you are Christian, you hide it (well, I don't, but that is one the reasons we need to leave). In those areas, it is assumed. Going into the plants I have interviewed with was like taking a shower after working with hogs. You don't realize how bad things stink until you come clean. Even the places where I knew I wasn't a good fit, it was a great feeling to be someplace West. I was home among my own.

We hate to leave the friends and life we have built up here, and the financial risk is there. But I know that moving back West would put me back into people I understand who hold the same values I do. Here, I am in a small enclave surrounded by people and culture who do not like me and mine very much. It has become more and more obvious to me and others that things are getting ready to unwind.

If I can see this over a small region, what are places like Seattle and New York like? How will they stand the lid coming off? What will happen to people there who are not able to see the changes coming? I travel to both on a semi regular basis, but I don't (or rather haven't) spent the time studying them like I did for the areas I interviewed. I will my next trip.

Blogger pyrrhus March 31, 2016 1:00 PM  

"And for those who can tolerate Yankeeland, the Adirondack, Green and White Mountains offer solid strategic and tactical opportunities."

Way too close to 30 million people in the NY-NJ-Boston area....You really want to be a couple of tanks of gas away from any population center...

Anonymous VFM #6306 March 31, 2016 1:07 PM  

Yeah, @42, although as we learned with the Murrah Building, it takes more than a couple of tanks of gas to get away with it...

Anonymous BoysMom March 31, 2016 1:09 PM  

I'm in the rural west. Haven't noticed folks caring about hair color, blond or not, so much as they care if you work hard, keep your nose clean, and participate in the community. I probably need to clarify that last: be active in whatever civic organizations keep the area functioning; volunteer fire department, 4-H/FFA etc. Don't be a busy body worrying about what color folks paint their houses and that sort of nonsense. Especially don't be the guy who moves onto a no-plow road and then whines about it. Helps a lot if you moved here fifty years ago or you have people here. My husband will forever be my parents' girl's husband. So's the next-door-neighbors' girl's husband. Who you're related to tells folks who you are better than anything, but being that new guy in the fire department isn't a bad recommendation if you don't have people here, so if you don't, find a way to get involved, and don't try to run anything anytime soon, even if you can see how it could be improved. Just be the guy who shows up and does what he's told for a decade or two.

Blogger pyrrhus March 31, 2016 1:10 PM  

@43 I'm mainly talking about situations where you are trying to ride out a grid down, or supply collapse situation...In such a situation, probably 2/3 of the US population would be dead within a year...

Anonymous bitter clinger 13 March 31, 2016 1:11 PM  

One more to consider: Appalachia. Full of badwhites with a history of telling the feds to get lost. Terrain and climate that is unattractive to many vibrants.

Anonymous BGKB March 31, 2016 1:11 PM  

Even some puffs are smart enough to flee die verse city.

New Jersey is likely to be highly contested ground

My view on NJ is that there will be cannibalism there within 2 weeks of the food stamp card failing.

I'm surprised Europe can afford the refugees.

The only place with pay as you go benefits is Switzerland, and they found a single squat monster family of 8 costs over $60,000USD a month in benefits to drag to civilization. Every AIDS refusegee costs between $25k-60k in meds alone per year.

and New York like? How will they stand the lid coming off?

Every time there was a power outage in NYC= mass looting.

Blogger James Dixon March 31, 2016 1:11 PM  

> I don't think it will be 2033. We will be lucky to get to 2020. Trump might put this off a bit.

When I was in college (76-80) I did some quick calculations and figured that we had somewhere in the range of 50 years left before then current trends bankrupted the country. In the late 80's I figured Reagan might have extended that some. The Bushes, Clinton, and Obama have demonstrated rather thoroughly that I was probably incorrect.

If you want to work with current figures, we're currently taking in $3T/year in tax revenues, spending $3.5T, and have about $19T in debt. If you assume the $.5T in deficits will continue, assume a reasonable long term debt rate, and make some assumptions about what percentage point of income going to debt makes things go sideways; you can work out how long we have. My current assumptions indicate at most 20 years.

Blogger YIH March 31, 2016 1:11 PM  

Nate:
Those ads pop up on talk radio from time to time as well. ''Help the poor starving Israelis!''
They make it sound like it's Ethiopia or something. Which one's Starvin' Marvinberg?

Anonymous Cinco March 31, 2016 1:12 PM  

@40 pyrrhus

I imagine Alaska would probably be better. But as a rule of wrist, yeah I agree the less population the better. To quote Stalin, "no man, no problem."

Anonymous DNW March 31, 2016 1:13 PM  

Americans of differing political persuasions don't like each other very much, and there is very little reason they should.

When people have fundamentally at variance life-ways and values, a libertarian polity might go some way toward tempering outright conflict. X might say about Y that he despises what Y does in his personal life, but that if Y stupidly wants to run full force into a brick wall, or engage in behaviors that result in his death in six inches of dirty ditch water, well then Y is welcome to do so.

But progressivism, as in "the way we care for each other", as in "our collective responsibility to rectify the injustices of nature", as in "discovering moral redemption through government enforced sympathetic imagination exercises and altruism", and all those other anthems enthusiastically sung by the left, makes this kind of tolerance impossible.

When a middle-aged drug addict destroyed his health in the past, he, mostly, paid for it. At least directly.

Now, under the "shared individual responsibility mandate" of ObamaCare we all do. And an unsentimental look at the facts reveals to a healthy but put-upon young man, that he would actually be better off if the middle aged man were dead - not because of some diffuse socially degrading effect the behaviorally incontinent middle-age man exhibits - but because the young man has experienced a quantifiable and personal loss of freedom and income to the older man through a cost-shifting law. His life has been placed in the service of an older man who was never subject to these same interpersonal burdens and impositions himself.

At some point, it will occur to the younger man, that he has an individual would be better off, more free of the costs of the dysfunctions of these unsympathetic uncongenial others, if these others, to whom he has been coercively yoked, were just dead.

And that is where the politics of progressivism have brought us.

Anonymous A Visitor March 31, 2016 1:14 PM  

That was a great read, Vox!

"Republicans are no more eager to talk about this pain than Democrats — and nothing happened."

That's what people do not understand: neither side wants to be out of power for an election cycle so they'll pretend like nothing is wrong...until it's too late.

"Once doubts of any sort emerge about the U.S. dollar’s status as the global reserve currency, the rot will emerge rapidly and America’s fiscal nightmare will be here, with a vengeance. That reckoning can be delayed for years, even decades, but when it comes, as it eventually will, it will come suddenly, at which point there will be no palatable remedy."

Talking with family that does not keep up on the news, as they're too busy working, they're stunned about the rapes in Cologne on New Year's Eve. They can't even fathom that the entire economic house could come crashing down.

"Yugoslavs were under no illusions that “diversity is our greatest strength” — they knew the opposite was the truth — and the Communists went to great lengths to keep ethnic peace by banning what we would term “hate speech” while mandating that the official doctrine that Yugoslavia’s diverse peoples really loved each other deeply be placed at the level of quasi-religious dogma."

Hmm...now where have I heard that before?

"Playing political games with race and ethnicity in any multinational society is a dangerous thing. Obama, by promising that he wanted to be president of all Americans, then governing as a highly partisan Democrat, has laid the groundwork for a hazardous future for the United States, hardly helped by his public indulging of black nationalism, particularly his incautious discussion of crimes both real and imagined against African Americans. However verbotendiscussion of white nationalism is at present among polite Americans, it is unavoidable that this will become an issue in the future, with potentially explosive consequences — to say nothing of the rise of Hispanic and Asian nationalisms too, as the United States becomes even more diverse than Yugoslavia was."

This is THE REASON I want us to remain a white majority nation. If you change the people, you change the place.

"I think it’s more likely in coming decades to become a huge nuclear-armed Brazil..." and white skin is still prized in "color-blind" Brazil.

@4 That's the big question.

@8 I had to laugh at that.

@20 Right. We wanted nothing to do with it but you push us long enough...

@28 Voting for Trump, as I'm planning, is a delaying action.

@30 I've driven through the Appalachians before...seems defensible.

@33 It blows me away where I live...in the Midwest that some of the best farmland on the face of the Earth is being turned into housing tracts.

Blogger Doktor Jeep March 31, 2016 1:15 PM  

As I think for a long time on the subject, the conclusion is that there is no one single applicable "model" of collapse to draw from.

Based on observation, America's collapse feels like a combination of these other samples, of which Yugoslavia is certainly a part of.

South Africa ("dinduism", stupidity, external pressure)
Albania and Greece (financially)
Brazil (multiculti polyglotism)
Mexico (corruption)
Detroit (Unionism, Welfare parasitism)



Texas might manage to hold it together, but the pressure and incursions from Mexico and Aztlan (currently Arizona, SoCal, New Mexico) will be a huge problem. The Texans might have to go towards drastic measures to defend their country. The first most effective step would be to round up their own leftoids and throw them from helicopters.

The Southeast: Florida, Georgia, Alabama will be a demonstration of Rednecks versus implanted Central American communists but the biggest enemy of "red thinking" will be Cubans. Florida might become a real world version of Tortuga from "Pirates of The Caribbean". But that depends on who wins the gunfight.

Pacific Northwest: already leftists are pushing this concept of "Cascadia" which from all appearance (based on how they describe it) is going to be some kind of r-selected bunny-brained utopia. They'll need a bogey man and that will be Deseret. Note: east of the Rockies is very conservative and they will likely blow the mountain passes to keep the leftoids from escaping their own democracy when everything from Bellingham to Olympia becomes "one big Detroit".

North Midwest: Parts of Idaho and Utah overall might become a country called "Deseret", the purported "Mormon state". It will be conservative and (loosely) tribalistic around Mormonism though they do not seem like the sorts to carry out a purge. Don't expect gays to be thrown off rooftops, but they won't be dragging bakers into court and robbing them for not baking a cake either. They will want port access in Seattle, which will be denied by the "commi(ssariat)ttee" running Cascadia, and may end up having to kick Cascadia's hippy ass.
With any hope the Lakota will reclaim their nation and form that new republic eastward. With any luck they won't make treaties involving giving away land any more - but if it's run by any semblence of Native American "councils", they have pretty much learned (agree or not) that any ideas coming from any whites is probably not a good one for their own interests. That is, they will be out for themselves, but are not likely to make purges of whitey. Their biggest enemy will be communists. If their border includes Chicago they might have to take drastic measures to deal with it.

Northeast: The Bermuda Triangle of Tyranny (New York, Massachusetts, DC) will be a holdout of all that is "great" with America. That is, people who are totally blind to democratic tyranny, soccer moms with no brains, banker/lawyer types who think they are getting a good deal paying 300K for a 2 bedroom house in Rochester and paying 10 grand a year in property taxes while being income and sales-taxed 7 ways to Sunday, will think they have a good thing in "New" New England. They might even think they have the mantle of the history and "brand" of "United States" and may go by that name. But it'll be a gun-controlled socialist hellhole. New Hampshire will be a thorn in it's side but the libertarians trying to take it over are too bunny-brained to be effective. Men who flee NY, NJ, CT, and MA for more economic freedom will be bringing wifey and public-skooled kids with them, who will vote NH into likewise helloholes in a generation.



Blogger Curtis March 31, 2016 1:15 PM  

Safe space, 2033: http://bit.ly/1RNdCJx

Anonymous bitter clinger 13 March 31, 2016 1:16 PM  

@42, sure some remote place out west might be ideal, but you have to find the best place close to your current home. First, you have to be able to get there. Second, you'll have to be accepted by the locals. You really need to establish yourself there now. Purchase property, such as a camp, and spend time there on a regular basis. Get to know the locals. Participate in any way you can. I think that anything more than a 2 hour drive is too far.

Anonymous DNW March 31, 2016 1:16 PM  

Read:

"that he as an individual "

Blogger Eric Castle March 31, 2016 1:19 PM  

For those looking toward Idaho, Utah, Wyoming, Montana, etc. it may depend on where you are coming from as to how well you are received. Idahoans for example have resented Californication since the late 80s, and that was primarily white families following a tech boom in the area for the most part.

Another irony of this is that Utah is less Mormon now than in the past than they would like to admit. Sending missionaries everywhere else left a blind spot in their front yard, and too many others moved in. They are still the power base of course though.

Blogger Cataline Sergius March 31, 2016 1:20 PM  

Cultural markers are showing up big time in American subregions.

For the moment they appear to be innocuous. Just matter of regional pride to attract tourists.

There is only one decent Barbecue shack in my entire state. On the other hand you can't walk ten feet without tripping over a brewery now. And they are all mind bogglingly great breweries, except the one that stole my prize winning recipe for Cacoa Crème Brewlay Stout, (those guys are just shit).

As I said these things appear innocuous but they aren't. We are now drawing away from each other. You can feel it in the little things like Barbecue and beer.

Blogger James Dixon March 31, 2016 1:23 PM  

> It blows me away where I live...in the Midwest that some of the best farmland on the face of the Earth is being turned into housing tracts.

That's happening everywhere within an hour drive of a metropolitan area.

Anonymous kfg March 31, 2016 1:27 PM  

"Way too close to 30 million people in the NY-NJ-Boston area . . ."

You think the mountain boys don't know that and haven't made . . . preperations?

And then there is this:

"My view on NJ is that there will be cannibalism there within 2 weeks of the food stamp card failing."

Which I tend to agree with.

Besiege NYC and Boston, turn the lights out, and it will only be a matter of days before they start to eat each other.

Anonymous Goodnight March 31, 2016 1:30 PM  

If you want to work with current figures, we're currently taking in $3T/year in tax revenues, spending $3.5T, and have about $19T in debt. If you assume the $.5T in deficits will continue, assume a reasonable long term debt rate, and make some assumptions about what percentage point of income going to debt makes things go sideways; you can work out how long we have. My current assumptions indicate at most 20 years.

That's also assuming interest rates stay close to zero. If they just went back to around 3-5% then the deficit skyrockets. As it stands now, we could eliminate all discretionary spending and still run a deficit.

Keep this in mind. From 1970 until 2008, the number of people going on Social Security per day averaged about 2500-4000. From 2009-2013 it shot up to about 10000 per day and will stay there until 2028. So we have to finance $18T in current debt AND sell around $1T in new bonds every year just to keep things going.

Anonymous BGKB March 31, 2016 1:43 PM  

When a middle-aged drug addict destroyed his health in the past, he, mostly, paid for it. At least directly.

The big thing obamacare did was take money from old Asians/whites to give to illegal aliens. Your middle aged drug addict is small potatoes in comparison. There is an actual woman in NJ that squatted out 21 crackbabies, who will have medical problems for life, at higher cost than your 1 drug addict man. Women paid more for health care because premi babies and breast CA are some of the most expensive things on the menu.

Blogger James Dixon March 31, 2016 1:44 PM  

> That's also assuming interest rates stay close to zero.

There are a lot of assumptions to make, which is why I only list the base figures and the process involved. The deficit figures are bogus anyway, but you work with the figures you have.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd March 31, 2016 1:50 PM  

@27: "We are no better humans than the Serbs and Germans were before us."

Germany was considered one of the most advanced and progressive countries in the world, before WWII. I have heard that Polish Jews were moving there through the 1920s to escape persecution.

Blogger tz March 31, 2016 1:53 PM  

I think all we need do is not die when the collapse occurs. That just requires being near where food is grown/raised and having enough ammo to dissuade the golden horde.
"One Second After" - talking about an EMP or cyberattack that brings the grids down predicts 90% will die and nothing much can be done to fix that. Those left can reboot it to their desires.
@56 - good point about not wanting Californication. Such refugees are hated only a little less than Syrian Muslims with ISIS t-shirts.

Anonymous Roundtine March 31, 2016 2:03 PM  

If you're not running for the hills, the map gets messy. Demographics is a big consideration. A lot of areas that are not strategic today could become very strategic. NJ is a major producer of gasoline. The Mississippi waterway is crucial, extremely so if the interstate system is compromised. Anywhere with real assets like oil wells will be a key target for conquest. A city like Portsmouth, NH or Portland, ME might grow if they avoid conflict and shipping routes change. States near Canada may thrive if they are out of the main battle. San Diego's value skyrockets past LA's, but you wouldn't want to be stuck in LA.

Anonymous kfg March 31, 2016 2:06 PM  

"I think all we need do is not die when the collapse occurs."

Pretty much. The onset is going to be nasty, brutish and short. You only have to survive long enough to out survive the chaff to have a pretty good chance at long term.

Except maybe in the Pacific Northwest. I don't see Idaho giving up access to the coast and becoming landlocked, so the first order of business may be civil war between the coastal liberals and the inland conservatives.

Anonymous kfg March 31, 2016 2:10 PM  

"The Mississippi waterway is crucial . . ."

The French did everything they could to maintain control of both ends; with that it didn't matter much what the Spanish were doing in the middle.

This will end up being the chief point of conflict between Dixie and Chicagoland, who otherwise would be happy enough trying to pretend the other didn't exist.

Anonymous A.B. Prosper March 31, 2016 2:17 PM  

To the topic at hand, the key to survival is the company you keep, friends with skills, guns, ammo and will are the number one priority, not easy in such an atomized society but essential. The location of redoubt matter but less

Also re: 2020 -- It sound like "the near future" but its only 2 years from now . We can keep the Ponzi up for quite a bit longer than that, baring swan attacks anyway

O/T for fans of MHI, it looks like someone may have made a real version of "the beast" or variant of it -- a belt fed shotgun

http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a20154/yes-a-belt-fed-shotgun-is-a-thing/

Blogger pyrrhus March 31, 2016 2:17 PM  

"My view on NJ is that there will be cannibalism there within 2 weeks of the food stamp card failing."
That long???

Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 31, 2016 2:19 PM  

kfg wrote:"You can change a thinker's mind with facts, but with feelers . . ."

. . . it takes a .45.


No, it takes fear. That's on it's way, thanks to ever more frequent and insistent calls for race war from the Left and the BLM/Nation of Islam.
"Whites are ruthless killers who torture and genocide minorities. Whites outnumber us 6:1. Let's start a war with them! What could go wrong?"

Blogger pyrrhus March 31, 2016 2:21 PM  

"To the topic at hand, the key to survival is the company you keep, friends with skills, guns, ammo and will are the number one priority, not easy in such an atomized society but essential. The location of redoubt matter but less"
True, but food is as important as ammo, and like J.R.Rawls,ex Army Intelligence, I think defensibility will be very important...

Blogger pyrrhus March 31, 2016 2:23 PM  

@69 I do see change, even among the liberal women I know...fear is creeping into their worldview....

Anonymous kfg March 31, 2016 2:32 PM  

"No, it takes fear."

That's already their mind. That's what makes them rabbits.

"Whites are ruthless killers who torture and genocide minorities. Whites outnumber us 6:1. Let's start a war with them! What could go wrong?"

I've spent decades scratching my head over that one.

Anonymous gentek March 31, 2016 2:43 PM  

What about the rest of us who do not have the stomach to kill? Should I move into a tundra to avoid lethal confrontations?

Anonymous gxg March 31, 2016 2:48 PM  

I do see change, even among the liberal women I know...fear is creeping into their worldview....

Interesting data-point. Could you expand on it? What, specifically, do they seem afraid of? Terrorism, crime, immigration, financial problems, Trump supporters...?

I AM a Trump supporter, btw. What I'm wondering is if these liberal women are fearing real problems or perceived dangers, as portrayed by the media.

Anonymous kfg March 31, 2016 2:55 PM  

"Should I move into a tundra to avoid lethal confrontations?"

That only avoids lethal confrontations with humans. Alone on the tundra your entire life will become eat or be eaten. Life lives on life.

At least learn to make reloads so you can make yourself useful enough to feed.

Anonymous Maureen March 31, 2016 2:56 PM  

Question for the Ilk re: location.

My husband and I currently live in the South, on the outskirts of a medium-sized city. We're planning to move in the next few months and the choices are (1) a slightly more rural location in the South or (2) Minnesota. We both love it down here (we're transplants, but well-assimilated!) We feel much more at home here, politically and culturally. However, we have no family and no network of like-minded folks (although to be honest, we haven't tried hard to cultivate that.)

My husband is from a small town about an hour south of Minneapolis, and has a big network of extended family and friends up there - farmers, welders, hunters, salt-of-the-earth types - but they aren't clear-eyed about things.

We're truly torn. I swore I'd never live in a Blue state again and the living is certainly easier down here. Also, a marked lack of homicidal Somalians. But I have this feeling in my gut that sometime soon, we're going to want to be near kin. It's cheaper in the South, but price-of-living isn't really an issue.

Any thoughts?

Anonymous Discard March 31, 2016 2:57 PM  

71. pyrrhus: Fear is creeping. I see more nice middle class people with big dogs, especially pit bull mixes.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd March 31, 2016 3:01 PM  

@73 "Should I move into a tundra to avoid lethal confrontations?"

I've spent enough time on the tundra to know that won't work. Live in a homogeneous neighborhood, where people look and think like you and be prepared for lethal confrontations. That's your best bet for avoiding them.

Anonymous Discard March 31, 2016 3:02 PM  

74. gxg: White people fear non-White crime. They spend a lot of money to avoid living near Darks, and if they're not far enough away, they spend more money on private school. Any "fear" of Trumpists is really affectation, out of the same cloth as their appreciation of diversity. The only thing to fear from Trump is having your racial hypocrisy stripped away.

Anonymous Discard March 31, 2016 3:06 PM  

If you have family you get along with in a more defensible part of the country, that would be a good way to fit in more readily.

"I'm Judy Warthole's cousin and my dad grew up down the road" is a better intro than "I'm from the Westwood, one of the better parts of Los Angeles".

Anonymous BluePony March 31, 2016 3:06 PM  

"Hang the cucks"

I love trolling them over at NRO. They get all "But, but, but you'll throw the election to Hillary!"

Then I tell them, yeah, I'm willing to sacrifice this election, kneel it down in a ditch and put a round in its head, if it means burning down a GOP of national betrayers and the opportunity to build something better from the ashes.

Hilarity ensues. Oh my, break out the fainting couches! They's all gots the vapors!

OpenID denektenorsk March 31, 2016 3:08 PM  

Every time there was a power outage in NYC= mass looting.

This is why I shake my head when the terrorists target another bunch of squishies. Amateur hour. Target the power grids and watch the chaos unfold. That might provoke too much of a smack down though.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 31, 2016 3:16 PM  

gentek wrote:What about the rest of us who do not have the stomach to kill? Should I move into a tundra to avoid lethal confrontations?

That's just pathetic. You're much stronger and more violent than you've persuaded yourself you are. Work on proving it to yourself. Maybe take up a martial art.
Tundras tend to be far more violent than suburbs.

Anonymous Jack Amok March 31, 2016 3:17 PM  

PNW may have a lot of mush-headed liberals, but one big reason for that is we don't have many vibrants. Much easier to be liberal when the "benefits" of your politics land mostly a thousand miles away or more.

Plenty of water and good land.

As to timing, the pessimist in me says 2020. My oldest son will be 18 that year. Not ideal for me

Anonymous AllenArmory March 31, 2016 3:20 PM  

#73 Become an indispensable asset to those who are willing to defend you and others. In June I will have finished my 2nd year of Bible School. I will then start courses to become a Master Herbalist. I completed multiple 4day self defense courses and armorers courses for AR15, 1911, XD & Glocks and will finish a gunsmith course after the herbalist course is complete. I may not want to shoot anyone either, but I'll have the skills to lay you out, give the last rites and put flowers on your grave.

Blogger Feather Blade March 31, 2016 3:23 PM  

@65 Lewiston is technically a seaport, so as long as the Columbia river remains clear... Worst case the transcascadian coast imposes tolls at the dams and locks.

@52 re: PacNW, you mean "east of the Cascades". The Rockies are on Idaho's east border, the Cascades separate the greater SeaTac metro area from the dry, non-moonbat side of the state.

@10 The state originally had high numbers of Scandinavian settlers.
At this point the universities (especially) attract large numbers of foreigners from the Middle East and South and East Asia, as well as football players who couldn't get scholarships to schools with more prestigious sports programs.
You'd think they wouldn't, what with Idaho's reputation vis-a-vis white supremacy, but I guess cheap tuition wins.

Blogger pyrrhus March 31, 2016 3:27 PM  

@74 They are afraid their kids won't be able to make it, afraid they will run out of money in retirement, afraid of Hillary, (believe it or not, which is why they mostly support Bernie or Trump), confused and fearful about the stigma attached to them as whites.....

Blogger Sheila4g March 31, 2016 3:29 PM  

@54 Bitter Clinger 13: ". . . sure some remote place out west might be ideal, but you have to find the best place close to your current home. First, you have to be able to get there."

This is what my husband and I debate. I'm all for moving to the northwest, but given his current job that's not possible at present. So then purchasing land and stockpiling goods somewhere miles away, and having vehicle/gas/passable roads to reach such a redoubt becomes a whole other ball of wax. We're slowly building a small community of like-minded friends, but some of them want to purchase land about another hour out from where we are, and others want to go to ground in Arkansas. My W. Va. friend has her family and friends and farm, but feels it's too close to DC and would be impossible to reach from Texas in a crisis. Obviously, settling on a location and establishing oneself there ahead of time is ideal, but sometimes jobs and other requirements make that difficult, if not impossible, at present. Would appreciate others' thoughts on the dilemma.

Anonymous kfg March 31, 2016 3:33 PM  

"Lewiston is technically a seaport, so as long as the Columbia river remains clear..."

If you don't own the coastal port, it is not clear.

"Worst case the transcascadian coast imposes tolls at the dams and locks."

And the casus belli of WWI was a tariff on Serbian pigs.

There will be war. Montana and Wyoming will join on the inland side, win, and be part of the country formed from the Northwest.

Colorado is fucked.

Blogger pyrrhus March 31, 2016 3:34 PM  

"What about the rest of us who do not have the stomach to kill? Should I move into a tundra to avoid lethal confrontations?"
When it comes down to your family being killed, or possibly enslaved, it will be a Darwinian situation. If you can't defend them with whatever violence is necessary, your genes will be eliminated....

Blogger pyrrhus March 31, 2016 3:39 PM  

@88 Sure, money is a big problem for most people, which is one reason why remoter locations are so available. Most people will have to shelter in place, preferably in a distant suburb...but if you have to do it in a big city, there is little chance of survival...even water service won't last long.

Anonymous 5343 March 31, 2016 3:40 PM  

@81.

"I'm willing to sacrifice this election, kneel it down in a ditch and put a round in its head ..."

I'm still giggling over the image ...

Blogger Josh March 31, 2016 3:42 PM  

All y'all should absolutely move to the PNW or other freezing cold places.

Blogger Curtis March 31, 2016 3:47 PM  

What the heck is a red state? This is how they got you all brainwashed. Today's red state is just a facsimile of the blue state of yesteryear. Today's red state is just the slower twin of a blue state, playing catch-up to blue states. Always one step or two behind the progression of the blue states.

Just a word of caution for if/when TSHTF. If you plan on moving to any of the border states with Canada, you will also have to deal with Canadians, of the military type. You might not be able to touch it, see it, or even smell it, but the NAU is here, now. In the event of TSHTF, Canada will not fall apart like schizophrenic USA. And don't ever get the impression when TSHTF, that the government is just going to fall apart into irrelevance, or into a comedy. If/when TSHTF, the military industrial complex/shadow government, will have no shortage of fresh meat, a cot and a meal, to make your life doubly plus miserable. Yugoslavia will look like a pre-school play-pen. You'll know it, when you see it.

Anonymous Brick Hardslab March 31, 2016 3:48 PM  

Family if you can do it. We're working on bringing back more to the old homestead. We have a few families now and trying to get the rest of the useful ones. Food that is not 'grid' dependent and can be stored and protected. Cash crops that can be switched to our own use or bartered.

The best part is that it is a better place to raise kids and healthier mentally and physically.

Blogger Austin Ballast March 31, 2016 3:51 PM  

We need a way to connect with others of like mind. How do you find reliable people? How do you get them to trust you?

I am currently tied to the DFW are for career reasons, but I would strongly consider buying land/property/whatever out someplace, likely in Texas, if I could find such a place. I could not move there now as the cost would be too much, but I figure I could provide some value to those living in the area, but knowing who was trustworthy and not just milking me would be a challenge.

Anonymous Brick Hardslab March 31, 2016 3:52 PM  

Josh The PNW is home to brutal winters and rainsoaked summers. There are already a ton of NAMs and we have wolves, bears, and poisonous snakes and spiders. There are huge government facilities here and a lot of shadow government bs.

Everyone should avoid the PNW.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 31, 2016 3:55 PM  

Curtis wrote:If/when TSHTF, the military industrial complex/shadow government, will have no shortage of fresh meat, a cot and a meal, to make your life doubly plus miserable.
Cause in the Pacific NW, no place is more than a short day trip from the Mechanized Infantry at Fort Lewis.

Only thing really that worries me about living here.

Anonymous kfg March 31, 2016 4:02 PM  

"Today's red state is just a facsimile of the blue state of yesteryear."

The blue state of yesteryear was a red state, and vice versa. The colours have been changed to indict the innocent.

But I know what you're driving at and we not only know that, but know it so well that it's an axiom that doesn't have to be explicitly stated every damned time the issue comes up.

Anonymous #8601 Jean Valjean March 31, 2016 4:03 PM  

@94 Curtis - In the event of TSHTF, Canada will not fall apart

Quebec will split for sure. So will Alberta. And I wouldn't want to be anywhere near Toronto, aka the most "diverse" city in the world, when the TSHTF.

Anonymous kfg March 31, 2016 4:05 PM  

" . . .no place is more than a short day trip from the Mechanized Infantry at Fort Lewis."

Didn't I tell you to remember Fort Ti?

Blogger Curtis March 31, 2016 4:21 PM  

Canada may have its burp, but it will be intact enough to fulfill its post Dial Emergency 9-1-1 obligations with the USAgov.

Blogger SciVo March 31, 2016 4:21 PM  

"Whites are ruthless killers who torture and genocide minorities. Whites outnumber us 6:1. Let's start a war with them! What could go wrong?"

I've spent decades scratching my head over that one.


They cluster together and too few deal well with abstracts; so they feel like the U.S. is a third white, a third Mexican and a third them.

Blogger Curtis March 31, 2016 4:22 PM  

In other words, a red state isn't really a red state. So why call it a red state?

Blogger FALPhil March 31, 2016 4:26 PM  

@51
This is THE REASON I want us to remain a white majority nation. If you change the people, you change the place.

This is part of the IRON LAW OF CIVILIZATION:
If you change the demographic, you change the culture.
If you change the culture, you change the nation.
If you change the nation, you change the polity.

OpenID simplytimothy March 31, 2016 4:31 PM  

When I first heard of an Easter Egg hunt gone savage, I assumed vibrants; It was not.
Anonymous Conservative lays the blame on stress and resource restriction.

http://www.anonymousconservative.com/blog/k-selection-easter-edition/


Anonymous kfg March 31, 2016 4:35 PM  

" . . .they feel like the U.S. is a third white, a third Mexican and a third them."

They also feel like they are the dictator, so the police and the military are "theirs" to command, which is what gives the illusion that they are not fear based.

It's going to be a rude awakening.

" . . . a red state isn't really a red state. So why call it a red state?"

Convention. It may be a recent convention, it may be bass akwards, but it is understood, even by those who haven't yet acquired a deeper understanding of the history of it.

Look at a map of national election results on the MSM news. The essential split when the country breaks up will be between the states colored blue and the states colored red.

New England is blue. Chicagoland is blue.

Dixie is red. Texas is red.

And that's just the way it is and at the moment there isn't anything we can do about it.

I like red uniforms better anyway, so I'll have that going for me, which is nice.

Blogger James Dixon March 31, 2016 4:39 PM  

> So why call it a red state?

Because when the colors were originally used (blue for republican, red for democrat), everyone knew that red also stood for communist. The Dem supporters in the media (pretty much all of them) changed the colors around rather than deal with the reality.

Blogger SciVo March 31, 2016 4:40 PM  

What about the rest of us who do not have the stomach to kill?

Every day, good men work effectively as cops, butchers and lawyers by turning off their empathy modules on command. You could call it "situational" or "selective" sociopathy.

There are many ways to develop the ability to do what needs doing. Even something as squishy as a first aid course may develop the ability to hurt people out of necessity.

Blogger FALPhil March 31, 2016 4:43 PM  

@56
Another irony of this is that Utah is less Mormon now than in the past than they would like to admit. Sending missionaries everywhere else left a blind spot in their front yard, and too many others moved in. They are still the power base of course though.

Utah, statewide is 70% Mormon. Certain areas, like Provo, are around 95%.

@66
This will end up being the chief point of conflict between Dixie and Chicagoland, who otherwise would be happy enough trying to pretend the other didn't exist.

There's the whole Ohio River Valley as well. Personally, I think Chicago will have bigger fish to fry for a long time before the Big Muddy becomes an issue.

@73
What about the rest of us who do not have the stomach to kill? Should I move into a tundra to avoid lethal confrontations?

Naw, just hire out as a bitch.

@94
Just a word of caution for if/when TSHTF. If you plan on moving to any of the border states with Canada, you will also have to deal with Canadians, of the military type. You might not be able to touch it, see it, or even smell it, but the NAU is here, now. In the event of TSHTF, Canada will not fall apart like schizophrenic USA.

As I write this in Torontostan, I am calling bullshit on you.
The Canuck military has logistical problems out the wazoo. they probably don't have enough operating trucks to transport troops to any incursion of decent size. Furthermore, Canada has been even more indiscriminant with immigration than the USA. then, when you take into account that about the only crop you can grow in Canada is wheat, an most of that is done away from the population centers, I laugh at your assertion. HAHAHAHAHA!

Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 31, 2016 4:47 PM  

SciVo wrote:There are many ways to develop the ability to do what needs doing. Even something as squishy as a first aid course may develop the ability to hurt people out of necessity.
So very true.

Anonymous kfg March 31, 2016 4:55 PM  

"I think Chicago will have bigger fish to fry for a long time before the Big Muddy becomes an issue."

Well their first order of business is making sure they've got MN and OH locked down in the fold.

And then making sure that they have some sort of viable trade and shipping treaty with the Northeast. That'll take a bit of trouble to work out. Although they're both blue areas, the Northeast is management and Chicagoland is labor, which is why they can't join to form one country. They don't like each other.

But they're close enough that they'll work out a deal that everyone hates, but everyone can put up with.

Anonymous Bukulu March 31, 2016 5:03 PM  

tz @ 63:

"I think all we need do is not die when the collapse occurs. That just requires being near where food is grown/raised and having enough ammo ... "

How can you leave out WATER? There aren't too many places in the US with a purely gravity-fed system, so when the electrity fails and the water towers are empty, they won't be refilled.

Oh, and in regard to ammo--sure, BUT: don't think you can do this on a solitary basis. You can't defend a redout against attacks unless you have a big enough crew to guard-and-defent 24x7. Read Ferfal on his experiences in Argentina, for example.

Blogger tz March 31, 2016 5:07 PM  

@94/@96 The mechanized infantry couldn't defeat a small number of people 2SD on the wrong side of the bell curve who were heretical or pagan religious zealots.
One reason N. Idaho was not on my list is the 100 mile from the border constitution free zone (the other is that the state patrol are road pirates as are many local cops).
But Canada? Get Riel.
I should call out a thanks to William Lind with Victoria (fiction becoming fact all too quickly, I'd pay lots for his take on the inter-mountain west especially if he would go into strategic, tactical, and operational details). That and the 4th generation warfare handbook which I doubt the USG will read.
Given the distribution of meat, unless you mean long-pork, or "soylent green" the military industrial complex won't have much. Also note the push for Women in combat. It is doubly humorous given that most "mama grizzlies" here could take them out at a fairly safe distance.

@71 - you mean they realized that gun free zone and don't rape signs aren't very effective? It will take a lot more pushing before they will be willing to be chained up in the basements of and by the gamers who live with their parents so they can finally contribute something to society. There are lots of women who have nothing to fear. They are married to men, mainly ex-military, who can easily protect them, and even show them how to protect themselves. Idaho now has constitutional carry but has a preexisting civil rights law that you can't deny service on the basis of packing.

@73 - Then become a medic, comms guy, or have some other skill very useful to someone who will kill on your behalf. It applies equally to those who aren't a great shot or otherwise aren't going to be part of the light infantry. You also don't know what you can't do if some madman with a knife comes at you. Train at the range and just imagine the aggressor as the target. You won't have any options if unarmed. If you are carrying, you can save yourself and others, and often simply being able to threaten deadly force suffices. Even you won't know if you are really bluffing.

Blogger SciVo March 31, 2016 5:11 PM  

All y'all should absolutely move to the PNW or other freezing cold places.

West of the Cascades, we just have a little bit of snow in winter. Not even enough to make a dent in the homeless population. Dallas can freeze too. Not a big deal.

I'm actually surprised that there aren't more liberals in the South, since I've always assumed that our mild climate was partly to blame.

Blogger SciVo March 31, 2016 5:16 PM  

If/when TSHTF, the military industrial complex/shadow government, will have no shortage of fresh meat, a cot and a meal, to make your life doubly plus miserable. Yugoslavia will look like a pre-school play-pen.

That is disturbingly plausible.

Anonymous Bukulu March 31, 2016 5:16 PM  

kfg @ 89,

"Lewiston is technically a seaport, so as long as the Columbia river remains clear..."

If you don't own the coastal port, it is not clear

You need more than that! You need to own, or have friendlies in control at least, of the entire stretch of the river. It's not that wide, a single .50BMG could produce a chokepoint for smaller vessels, and even the largest would be in range of simple home-made mortars.

Snidely @ 96:

Indeed, we're close to JBLM, though "short day trip" presumes all the highways and railroads stay intact and passable.

But regarding the soldiers populating that infantry--how many of them to you know? I absolutely expect the US military to fracture at the same time as the surrounding society does, and for the same reasons.

Blogger tz March 31, 2016 5:18 PM  

@111 - VERY correct. I forget because I happen to be in a place with gravity feed for the irrigation system and many wells. I have a nice stock of bottled water - the local grocer had a loss-leader - plus a Berkey and survival "straws" if/when needed.
Sanitation can also be a problem if you don't know how to handle it and can cause a plague.
The problem with "Green" energy in the form of horses is they need to eat and they poop - the "stable" form of power is high-maintenance. But if needed I can pony up.
Also true regarding corporate defense, though using informal techniques, I think there will be several hundred defenders backed by the auxiliary (female) providing support and intelligence.
Electricity here is hydroelectric, and will be hard to interrupt for long but most include plans for even that contingency.

Anonymous kfg March 31, 2016 5:21 PM  

"I'm actually surprised that there aren't more liberals in the South . . ."

When the Swedes started leaving for the New World in the 19th century, they could have gone to Rio, and a few of them did, but most of them went to NY, which didn't suck quite enough, so they moved on to Minnesota.

Sometimes people prefer what they're used to, even when a better alternative is available.

Blogger tz March 31, 2016 5:23 PM  

@113 - it isn't the little bit of snow and lack of freezing temps, it is the lack of food when it can't be transported over the broken bridges, the lack of medicine and public health (Cholera? Typhus?), and the willingness of some to kill. Cascadia's Fault or Mt. Ranier would accomplish that, even in the summer.

Anonymous Ranger Mosby March 31, 2016 5:23 PM  

I am somewhat startled to find Washington Post columnist Kathleen Parker contemplating the prospect of a military coup in the U.S. with apparent equanimity. Not that I hold any brief for Parker, but it's not the sort of comment I would have expected to see in a Post op-ed.

I quote:

"In one of his highly distilled observations, he wonders (but isn’t predicting) whether this may be our last election for a while. To Americans who already feel disenfranchised and voiceless, their votes virtually meaningless as political parties seek to override them, this idea won’t be much of a surprise. Rather, they likely have already begun to feel resigned to a country no longer their own and a world that’s out of control.

Wishard’s thesis hinges on his further observation that the military and Silicon Valley may be the only institutions left that are capable of governing."

Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 31, 2016 5:23 PM  

SciVo wrote:I'm actually surprised that there aren't more liberals in the South, since I've always assumed that our mild climate was partly to blame.
The coastal PNWriginally settled by Yankees. Seattle was founded by Bostonians in fact, who brought in Scandis and Finns to do the tough work on boats, in the woods, and at dairies.
Oregon was settled by Ohioans and Kentuckians, who did their own damn work.
That is 100% of the difference between Oregon culture and Washington culture.

Blogger tz March 31, 2016 5:24 PM  

@117 - Summers with the humidity can be unbearable. Air Conditioning is recent.

Blogger tz March 31, 2016 5:25 PM  

@119 of all American institutions, the Military is the most representative. A Coup would be an improvement.

Anonymous kfg March 31, 2016 5:31 PM  

"You need to own, or have friendlies in control at least, of the entire stretch of the river."

When the lobsterbacks took Manhattan, the colonials found a choke point in the Hudson with high bluffs on both sides, mounted artillery there, and tossed a big ass chain across the river.

The British held the port, but they still couldn't access the interior because they couldn't control the river.

The coast can't form a viable country on its own. They need the land and resources of the interior. The interior can't form a viable country without access to the coast.

And they don't like each other.

There will be war.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 31, 2016 5:32 PM  

tz wrote:@113 - it isn't the little bit of snow and lack of freezing temps, it is the lack of food when it can't be transported over the broken bridges,

Puget Sound, Chehalis, Cowlitz, Nisqually, Snohomish rivers, lake Union, and Lake Washington were the only highways in WA for damn near 1/3 of our history. Columbia and Willamette do the same duty in OR.
There's lots of boats around here.

OpenID simplytimothy March 31, 2016 5:36 PM  


How can you leave out WATER? There aren't too many places in the US with a purely gravity-fed system, so when the electrity fails and the water towers are empty, they won't be refilled.


And Salt. http://www.encyclopediavirginia.org/Saltville_During_the_Civil_War

Anonymous Siobhan March 31, 2016 5:40 PM  

We're stuck in San Francisco for the foreseeable future. Does living in a boring white neighborhood of expensive single family homes buy us anything? We're thinking of buying a vacation property either in Bear Valley or Sonoma. But not sure I'd feel safe either of those places either.

Crap.

Anonymous Keener March 31, 2016 5:49 PM  

gentek --- you don't have to kill them, just shoot them in the knees. Why do I have to think of everything?

Bitter clinger is right about making yourself useful and known to locals. Better yet, become a local. The best resources in the world are useless if people don't stand together. Nobody can singly defend good resources. People need to be together and easily, willingly, organized.

Blogger Were-Puppy March 31, 2016 6:05 PM  

With all of these thoughts of SHTF, what are the chances of some foreign power taking advantage of the situation?

Blogger Rusty Fife March 31, 2016 6:07 PM  

Siobhan wrote:We're stuck in San Francisco for the foreseeable future. Does living in a boring white neighborhood of expensive single family homes buy us anything? We're thinking of buying a vacation property either in Bear Valley or Sonoma. But not sure I'd feel safe either of those places either.

Crap.


Make a lot of friends in the neighbourhood. People are your biggest asset.

Drag a firepit into your front yard one Saturday a month and have "cowboy breakfast". Share coffee and biscuits on a stick with whomever stops by.

Anonymous WinstonWebb March 31, 2016 6:09 PM  

With all of these thoughts of SHTF, what are the chances of some foreign power taking advantage of the situation?

100%

As we all know, the Japanese have been planning it for over 70 years...

Anonymous kfg March 31, 2016 6:12 PM  

"Drag a firepit into your front yard . . ."

He'll need a contract for 6 months of harmonica lessons to get the permit for that.

Blogger SciVo March 31, 2016 6:15 PM  

Oregon was settled by Ohioans and Kentuckians, who did their own damn work.

Now I better understand the culture that shaped me. Thanks!

Blogger SciVo March 31, 2016 6:19 PM  

Columbia and Willamette do the same duty in OR.

And Clackamas. But point made.

Blogger FALPhil March 31, 2016 6:32 PM  

@128
With all of these thoughts of SHTF, what are the chances of some foreign power taking advantage of the situation?

With Red China hold a huge chunk of our USA debt, they may come to take some collateral if the USA defaults. And they could do it.

Blogger SciVo March 31, 2016 6:35 PM  

With all of these thoughts of SHTF, what are the chances of some foreign power taking advantage of the situation?

Where they are, yes. Where we are, with a rifle behind every blade of grass? No.

Now to be sure, most foreigners have lower IQ, but still. They would have to be incredibly moronic to invade a nation of heavily-armed paranoics.

But yeah, if we're too busy to project power, then there are people that will take advantage to deal with their neighbors, much as perhaps the native Europeans would... oh crap.

I just realized that we're projecting anarcho-tyranny. I mean, I knew I didn't like our foreign policy, but I didn't realize the parallel.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 31, 2016 6:41 PM  

Were-Puppy wrote:With all of these thoughts of SHTF, what are the chances of some foreign power taking advantage of the situation?
Impossible. Too many guns. Even China wouldn't try.

And anyone who tried to bring in foreign troops, with the possible exception of a Mexican incursion into CA, would instantly ignite the fire of hell on their own ass.

Blogger JimR March 31, 2016 7:00 PM  

I could see China for example, flying in 'humanitarian' relief along with a lot of uniformed 'humanitarian forces' to some shithole city full of starving folks. Assuming a whole bunch of things didn't stop them. I don't think the starving multitudes in say, Miami or LA would resist being given food. At that point, it's Camel's nose and all. I could certainly see our "government" inviting them in... That would be entirely in character.

Anonymous Gen. Kong March 31, 2016 7:02 PM  

VD nails it:
The nation is already broken and divided. What is now being done to the nations of Europe was already done to the USA back in 1965. There is no longer an Anglo-American nation with a moderate admixture of other European nations, now it is a merely a political entity with dozens of rival ethnic and religious interest groups jockeying for power and a share of the income redistribution.

The one caveat to his excellent observation here is that the one group who has been deliberately targeted in what amounts to a campaign of genocide, is the one group who a) denies it's happening (because Llord Bankstein and his relatives are like Jeezus, so they think, even though they've rejected the odd Messiah from Nazareth over and over again); and b) refuses to fight it even when they don't deny the program (because rayciss). So the ethnic fighting now is reserved to some relatively small-scale brawls between Aztecs and negroes. Negroes have been carrying out a decades-long dirty war against YT - covered up by Lügenpresse - but the cucks continue to seek magic negroes wherever they can convince themselves one exists. The question is whether the founding stock will actually play the game or not. If they follow the patter we've seen in Southern Africa, they'll sing hymns to the Golden Dindu-Jeezus as they're being erased. If they revert to more historical patterns, they might survive after some serious blood-letting.

Blogger Rusty Fife March 31, 2016 7:02 PM  

kfg wrote:"Drag a firepit into your front yard . . ."

He'll need a contract for 6 months of harmonica lessons to get the permit for that.


I was watching news, you can write the harmonica lessons off under 'pulmonary rehabilitation'.

Blogger rumpole5 March 31, 2016 7:06 PM  

You are too pessimistic. Luckily, our "clutter" is much more digestible than that presently choking Europe. The "Hispanics" (a fake term made up by the Nixon fake conservatives) are in large part simply Latin whites, much like the southern Italians whom we have already more or less digested (although we could certainly have done without the MAFIA). We also successfully digested the shanty Irish, who, after centuries of extreme degradation by the English, were basically savages. Given the political corruption the Irish introduced to our major cities, (Tamany Hall/NYC, Dailey Machine/Chicago, and the like) one might wonder if they still are. But I digress. My point is, that if we can turn off the flow, I believe that we can inculcate most of the post 1964 immigrants if we must. Most are part of Christendom, and will, in time, meld into the general culture. Islam is another kettle of fish, but thank God, we don't have the numbers to sow chaos yet.
We are on the cusp of big changes, (I hope to see either Trump or Cruz as president) but I don't think we face a revolution any time soon. Our geographical isolation, emotionally stable well armed population, technology, and natural resources make that unlikely. Even if New York City and Washington DC were vaporized tomorrow, life would go on because most of our governmental processes are duplicated by the state and local governments. We can still get through this.

Blogger praetorian March 31, 2016 7:18 PM  

@Snidely:

What's your take on PNW from a Happening standpoint? Muh Dixie talks a lot of shit, but I see good demographics up there, lots of natural resources and infrastructure, and proximity to Canada and distance from Mexico.

OpenID aew51183 March 31, 2016 7:24 PM  

@140

"emotionally stable well armed" -- only in the heartland. The coastal states are freaking loopy. Trust me, I live in the areas and have fled as far to the interior of my particular state as possible, but it's still hell.

"if we can turn off the flow" -- The GOPe have made the "trump beats women" meme stick to him and he's losing in the polls in many western states. This spells robbery of Trump, and Cruz has spent his entire career going for +500% H-1B's and +200% legal immigratoin caps. As a Trump supporter, I will spite-vote clinton before Cruz. His real platform, the one he keeps hidden behind his "me-too"ing of Trump's platform, is the same as clinton's.



Anonymous gxg March 31, 2016 7:26 PM  

If they follow the pattern we've seen in Southern Africa, they'll sing hymns to the Golden Dindu-Jeezus as they're being erased.

South Africa caved to economic sanctions and world-pressure, generated by feel-gooder folks in the USA and elsewhere. Now, years later, if the whites revolted against their own genocide, they'd likely face military policing, courtesy of the UN/USA Military (but I repeat myself).

A question...How much of the white genocide, including what's happening in Germany, is enforced/encouraged by U.S. Intervention, whether by economics or by force?

BTW, Stephen Molyneaux did a great podcast on South Africa. He hits some pretty hard topics, including I.Q. differences, AIDS, raping of children, even traffic accidents, as it's gone from a first-world nation to a third-world hellhole.

Anonymous kfg March 31, 2016 7:32 PM  

"I don't think we face a revolution any time soon."

I spoke of war only in the Northwest, and that would come after the breakup.

" . . . if New York City and Washington DC were vaporized tomorrow, life would . . ."

. . . improve immediately.

" . . . most of our governmental processes are duplicated by the state and local governments."

Well yes, that's exactly the point, innit? We all take our governments and go home.

Unlike the last time, nobody is going to seriously try to be king of the union. We're all pretty sick of each other and it will be more a matter of how fast can we push each other away. People will be vying to become the strong man in each of the new countries.

OK, DC will go through the motions of trying to keep it together by force, but it won't fly for long.

The Southwest is in for nasty times as well, on its way to becoming Aztlan.

And there will be border some border skirmishes here and there, as not all the current borders will hold as they are.

But other that, on the whole, I expect it the whole thing to really go with a, "Well, that's that then."

The ambassador class will make out like bandits. There's going to be a Mongolian clusterfuck of treaty making for a while.

Blogger praetorian March 31, 2016 7:47 PM  

The ambassador class will make out like bandits. There's going to be a Mongolian clusterfuck of treaty making for a while.

Interesting thought.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 31, 2016 7:50 PM  

rumpole5 wrote:life would go on because most of our governmental processes are duplicated by the state and local governments. We can still get through this.

No. When the currency collapse hits, the inter-racial conflict will go off-the-charts. BLM activists and Nation of Islam are already working up for it. MS-13 and other gangs, including Asian tongs, form de facto armies in many of our cities. 3%ers are arming up to fight the police, the Feds are arming up to fight militias, and Jews keep stirring the pot.

There's money to be made, power to be accrued exploiting ethnic grievance and fomenting violence! It's not just a job, it's an adventure.

"If it takes a bloodbath, let's get it over with." --Reagan

Blogger rumpole5 March 31, 2016 7:53 PM  

aww5...
My friend, I share your disgust at the way the GOPes has repeatedly tried to set Mr. Trump up. I am personally hoping for a Trump/Cruz steamroller ticket that will keep the blue collar folks that Trump has energized. However, you would be a fool not to vote for Cruz if he is nominated. Clinton is a corrupt CRIMINAL, and she would be a disaster as president. Even Sanders would make a better president. Cruz would not be optimal, perhaps, but he would not be a complete disaster.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 31, 2016 8:01 PM  

praetorian wrote:What's your take on PNW from a Happening standpoint? Muh Dixie talks a lot of shit, but I see good demographics up there, lots of natural resources and infrastructure, and proximity to Canada and distance from Mexico.
I've lived here my whole life so I have no basis for comparison.
Demographics are deceptive There are a HUGE number of Asians. I learned to tell Chinese from Korean from Japanese from Pinoy by 3rd grade. Indians form the permanent underclass. Blacks are much more common than in my childhood, but still < 5%.
Ruling Elite is overwhelmingly Yankee and Jewish, and controlled by the Lavender Mafia, who have the dirt on everybody.
Gun laws in WA and ID are excellent. Native Yankee gun cultrure survives. Oregon is terrible. No CCW reciprocity with anyone, required classes, etc. Midwest Yankee fer of guns.

Anonymous Quartermaster March 31, 2016 8:01 PM  

@21
The uninformed have predicted that Russia was going to fall. The informed have pointed to the factors that will cause Russia to fall apart.

Underneath Putin's camouflage, Russia is in terrible shape. When the country actually falls is anyone's guess. A lot of people in '91 thought the Soviet Union was going to last well into this century. We know how that turned out.

Demographics is just one problem, and far from the only problem.

@73
If you don't have the stomach to kill in seld defense, then I hope who ever catches you doesn't toy with too long.

@76
Family is very important, but if they aren't clear eyed about things, then it unlikely they will engage in any preps before the balloon goes up. Consequently, they become liabilities to someone who does prepare.

An hour from Northern Somalia is too close. It might be that the Somalis won't come boiling out of paradise, but that isn't the way to bet. If you have a lack of preps, then self defense becomes problematic and the grasshoppers, once more look to you and they become a liability.

While I was born in the south, my father was Air Force, so I'm in a spot similar to yours. You would be better off in the south and it would be wise to find yourself a place where you can fit in and start establishing yourself spiritually and emotionally with your neighbors so they know what they can turn to you for, and vice versa. The dindus will tend to stick to the metro areas, and the few that decide there might be good fun in the countryside will be few and out of their element.

I could be wrong in what I've said, but all bets will probably be off. It's a place to start, and the bottom line is a plan is just a jumping off place. Being flexible and able to make do with what you have is going to be extremely important. Obtaining the skills required to fix things will be the most important part of your preps. The milder the climate you have to fight will also be decisive in your success at surviving the cock up coming soon.

@81
The vapors is all they gots.

@93
I would suggest Juneau as an excellent place.

@94 @96
The idea that FedGov will simply declare martial law and occupy the country is unrealistic. The military simply is not large enough anymore. It might have had some chance when I was a kid in the late 50s, but even then much of the military was offshore in Europe of the Far East. In the case of real collapse, FedGov will be lucky to be able to do anything. County and State govs might accomplish something, but local control will preclude FedGov being able to do much.

The real collapse will be that of FedGov as the ability to rib the rest of the country to support their worthless hides comes to an end. When that happens, The 9th Id will be holding bake sales to buy MREs.

@98
Being near Ottawa, Toronto, or Montreal when the collapse comes will very likely be fatal for most people, regardless of the melanin content of their skin.

@110
Chicago is an outlier of Yankeedom in the midlands. Their lifeline will the lakes. If they can't keep that open, they are finished.

@126
Except for “Jefferson” California is problematic. San Fransicko is a place to be from, not at.

Blogger Joshua Sinistar March 31, 2016 8:07 PM  

2033? Where did that come from? Nostradamus? Vox being that you are in Europe I will forgive this generous overestimate of Weimar 2.0s existence. My belief is that War will begin to break out this year when Trump is removed as a viable candidate. The hostile Anti-White victory dance ape city and the media will do when he is prevented from being nominated will instigate a confluence of factors which ensures the complete destruction of the present government and the concept of democracy. Believe me, the government has neither the resources or the power at this point to survive. Obama has already done enough damage to prevent its survival. This regime no longer has the support to continue in any way shape or form. The non-Whites have no ability and probably no intention of making any sacrifices to save it.

Anonymous kfg March 31, 2016 8:08 PM  

@146:

Oh yeah, there's going to be a lot of blood spilled, just not in the manner that we think of as a revolution.

I think the political lines will be drawn fairly quickly and easily. I think the Feds will find they have trouble enough keeping themselves safe inside the Beltway. They'll have to use non-nationals to do it. The Federal military will split along factional lines with the country. Texas boys will go home to Texas.

The social structure lines, not so much. There will be "unrest."

Anonymous freddie_mac March 31, 2016 8:18 PM  

@56. Eric Castle March 31, 2016 1:19 PM
For those looking toward Idaho, Utah, Wyoming, Montana, etc. it may depend on where you are coming from as to how well you are received

nods. I'm aiming for WY in the next year (need to sell the house on the east coast). I'm originally from Seattle, but that's become too crazy for me to tolerate -- WY seems closest to my personal culture & has the space/demographics to suit. I'm certainly going to work hard at acquiring a necessary skill and becoming part of the local community.

Anonymous kfg March 31, 2016 8:20 PM  

@149: "The real collapse will be that of FedGov as the ability to rib the rest of the country to support their worthless hides comes to an end."

Exactly.

"Their lifeline will the lakes."

And again. I've posited in a previous thread that the reason why the Dakotas are fucked is the same reason that Chicagoland will make taking MN and OH into the fold - control of the lakes.

And the Dakotas have no place in Chicagoland. They're going to be isolated and land locked.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 31, 2016 8:23 PM  

Politically, the PNW is reflexively Liberal, even socialist, and anti-Nationalist. Because of the low number of Blacks and the high proportion of exceptional Asians, there is very little racial strife. The Mexican & Arab Invasion has started to change that, but there's a long way to go before people start doubting the blessings of vibrancy and diversity. Distance from Mexico is purely theoretical. Yakima, for instance, is rapidly approaching majority Mexican status, and Salem is not far behind.

Winters are mild EXCEPT about every 10 - 15 years we get a couple of weeks of -10 weather. Everyone's pipes freeze, civilization grinds to a halt.
Summers are unbelievably dry. July 5th through mid-October have essentially zero rain. All grass is dead before August, and doesn't recover until winter. Relatively low humidity and few mosquitoes are the payoff.Irrigation is absolutely required except for grain crops.

Blogger tz March 31, 2016 8:44 PM  

@76 Faribault or Owatonna based on the propensity to speed?
In any case, it is rural enough but you will want to be away from US 14, MN 60, and/or I 35 to avoid the "golden horde" and might need to go westward yourselves to avoid the twin cities golden horde.

Minnesota is a red state with a huge, blue pimple that one frozen winter without electricity will cure.

If you have both the will and the means to defend yourselves it might be a reasonable place (I was in Owatonna for 2.5 years). If you are of a mind to, get with like minded and select places along I-35 you can do what happened to the bridge a few years ago.

Anonymous Bobby Farr March 31, 2016 8:45 PM  

Brazil seems a more likely outcome than Yugoslavia. Migrant numbers are massive and it is government policy to settle the dregs in areas populated by native whites. Given the numbers of natives who won't even take the step of voting for Trump, it seems unlikely they will be ready for civil war or even peaceful secession within a time frame where regional differences are as strong or where native whites still exist in any area as a cohesive nation. Look at the South, which one would expect to be the best candidate to break away. They've already lost Texas and Florida and are well on the way to losing Georgia, North Carolina, Virginia, the cities of TN. Even if you accept the 2033 date as not overly optimistic, what nations within the US will still exist after 17 more years of mass migration?

No, historical precedent suggests the most likely outcome is Miami, LA, San Francisco, etc. writ large. Places that were 90%+ white as recently as the 50s and 60s obliterated without a peep. And this occurred at a time when native whites were more cohesive and had more to protect.

The only alternative is a Trump election, a wall, a legal immigration freeze and mass deportations. Natives are blessed to have this option on the ballot in 2016, well past what I would have considered America's expiration date, and instead they are voting for a foreigner.

Blogger tz March 31, 2016 8:48 PM  

@85 precisely, but when TSHTF where it is a grave matter, useful herbs or veggies are better than flowers.

Blogger tz March 31, 2016 8:51 PM  

@108 is Canuck a mispronunciation of Cuck, eh?

Blogger Joshua Sinistar March 31, 2016 8:56 PM  

Anyone who still believes there will be a slow slide to barbarism like the Roman Empire is just kidding themselves. Say what you will about the Romans, but those Ancients had the ability for self-sustenance that cannot be seen Today in America. Even a small interruption in benefits will see massive riots all across America. We have all seen how just one day of no EBT can cause looting and disorder. This Government has shown its inability to deal with disasters already during Hurricane Katrina. A localized disaster over two Southern States and the entire government was unable to do anything for over a week.
Prepare. Get ready. Its coming. A storm is about to hit. No matter where you are you will be in the danger zone. Get together with friends and make a plan now. Don't wait. Its going to start this year.

Blogger tz March 31, 2016 9:00 PM  

@124 - Boats can only transport what is grown. Between hybrids, GMO and the rest, having perfect logistics which can transport 10000% of what is grown won't help.
However if there is a sufficient fishery it might suffice.

@125 40 pound pool salt is cheap. survivalblog.com has more tips. Of course you can glyphosate fields today instead of salting them.

@126 - you aren't stuck unless there is some kind of LeBrea tarpit effect. If you knew in two years a mob would burn your house and rape your womenfolk, would you ignore the situation and evacuate? There are opportunities elsewhere, even in salt lake and denver and I'd prefer to be there rather than on the left coast.

Blogger tz March 31, 2016 9:05 PM  

@128 - The USA is the host, the world is the set of parasites. Foreign governments will have more important problems. They have been taking advantage which is why the host is sickly.

Beyond that, most people I know have prepared even if the feds haven't. The FBIRSEC... who is starving isn't likely to bother about grazing fees.

Pity. HarvestRight's freeze dryers are small so aren't sufficient for mummification. Perhaps they will make a large, deluxe model in the future.

Blogger SciVo March 31, 2016 9:11 PM  

Even if New York City and Washington DC were vaporized tomorrow, life would go on because most of our governmental processes are duplicated by the state and local governments.

I have mixed feelings about that prospect, since my sister lives near there, and I wouldn't want her to be vaporized. Otherwise, I think we might be better off.

Blogger Joshua Sinistar March 31, 2016 9:31 PM  

There are now two Americas. One is the socialist cities and then there are the real Americans who fled the disorder. You can see it clearly marked in Red and Blue after every election. These are the two sides that will fight the Second Civil War. Study the map and see where you are. You will need it when the time comes.

Blogger Student in Blue March 31, 2016 9:54 PM  

@FALphil and kfg

The Big Muddy River is actually a different river in Illinois than what you're thinking of.

Blogger Student in Blue March 31, 2016 10:02 PM  

@Joshua Sinistar
Anyone who still believes there will be a slow slide to barbarism like the Roman Empire is just kidding themselves.

That's ignoring the slow slide to barbarism we've been doing already.

Blogger Joshua Sinistar March 31, 2016 10:21 PM  

You think this is slow? Back in the 1980s everyone thought the economy was great and were really upbeat about the future. Its just 2016 and people say the American Dream is gone forever. If you think that's slow you must have a short attention span there.

Blogger GP March 31, 2016 10:23 PM  

And you'll notice that the smaller homogenous towns and cites where white numbers are higher than the national average , there are a greater number of little blonde haired , blue and green eyed children.

Blogger Student in Blue March 31, 2016 10:23 PM  

It's certainly slow compared to the almost-instant riots and barbarism you were describing in your post. Years versus minutes.

Blogger GP March 31, 2016 10:32 PM  

What you're talking about in Idaho , Western Montana , Utah and Wyoming is Mormons. What you'll find in their towns and small cities is a white population that is higher than the national average . What you'll see is a whole lot more light haired, blue and green eyed children.

Blogger Joshua Sinistar March 31, 2016 10:42 PM  

Oh grasshopper, you have never seen a collapse. The Weimar Republic in Germany shows just how quickly it can happen. Hitler and his party were jokes in 1928, and in 1929 they were in total control in Germany. A collapse is never slow nowadays. When you use fiat money it can happen virtually overnight with the magic of hyperinflation. Those EBT cards only need to go down for a while before it goes full Zombie Apocalypse.

Blogger Harold March 31, 2016 10:54 PM  

If/when TSHTF, China won't be sending us anything in the way of humanitarian aid. Their entire economy is dependent on ours. And, China is a net importer of food. Various Chines enterprises were trying to lease/buy vast quantities of farmland in east Africa, but discovered property rights and infrastructure there were, to put it mildly, not well developed.

Water access in case of widespread power outages is a real problem. My house has a 15 ft dug well where a natural spring used to be. Walk 500 feet, and I've got water. Across the street is a 200 ft drilled well. They'll be asking me for water. I'll have plenty to spare for drinking. Wash will be once a week by hand.... I'm 50 miles away from and between two diverse cities. The diverse won't get this far. They would need gas- which would disappear before they realized TSHTF. And holding a disorganized mob together for a 50 mile march through the countryside is problematical at best. As for NYC's collection of diversity- there's a whole bunch of choke points called bridges and tunnels. I can foresee a bunch of "accidents" rendering them unusable even for pedestrians. City dwellers there will run out of water and food long before they organize.

One other thing that determines the immediate aftermath of when/if TSHTF. What month does it occur? If it happens DEC-FEB, the problem with city dwellers invading the countryside just about goes away. Even in NY. Country dwellers have suitable cold weather gear for traipsing about. How far do you think a mob of angry diverse people are going to get in 20 degree weather? They're going to need shelter each time they stop. And a lot more calories just to keep going. Sub-zero weather? They'll get maybe ten miles before mother nature defeats them.

Anonymous Cheddarman March 31, 2016 10:59 PM  

I call bs on this. It sounds like environment propaganda you swallowed without thinking

Anonymous BigGayKoranBurner March 31, 2016 11:12 PM  

I think the golden horde is overrated because black/brown wont leave their territories demanding govt handouts until after they consumed bad food/water.

PNW Hydro power. The north west redoubt is several NW states and parts of states.

True, but food is as important as ammo, and like J.R.Rawls,ex Army Intelligence, I think defensibility will be very important

Rawles site is https://survivalblog.com/ Don't forget water, especially if you need power to get water. You can get shelf stable nitrogen packed 5 gallon buckets of food good for 10 years, or freeze dried food good for 30years. For a permanent light sourse I would recommend getting the 8man tent version of that you can use as a permanent night light if the world doesn't end. https://www.uvpaqlite.com/the-uv-paqlite-1.html

Vit D will be hard to get without modern additives in a mad max world so you might consider growing shiitake mushrooms on logs. https://survivalblog.com/letter-re-vitamins-in-a-grid-down-situation/ (notice the initials at the end) A common weed has the highest omega 3 acids you can find in a plant. http://www.eattheweeds.com/purslane-omega-3-fatty-weed/

What about the rest of us who do not have the stomach to kill?

I know a STR8 married RN prepper woman who is purposely growing hemlock while her husband is not a prepper.
Pine needle tea can give you vit c if you cant grow citrus, you can also eat the inner bark of pine. http://tacticalintelligence.net/blog/how-to-eat-a-pine-tree.htm

When I first heard of an Easter Egg hunt gone savage, I assumed vibrants; It was not.

Somebody better tell Paul Kersey because he multiple occurrences documented.

Look at a map of national election results on the MSM news. The essential split when the country breaks up

Look at red/blue county by county and its obvious that if just a few bridges went down most liberals would be traped. PA went for Bath House Barry with just 3 counties voter frauding for him.

Make a lot of friends in the neighbourhood. People are your biggest asset. He lives in San Fran.

Blogger Joshua Sinistar April 01, 2016 12:14 AM  

I really don't believe the diversity will stray far from the city. If the Katrina aftermath showed anything is that they will probably wait for the government to rescue them by all gathering somewhere. And of course the opportunities for looting will slow them down for a while. I expect they will go for big screen TVs first and by the time they hit the grocery stores the shelves will be empty. They have learned to rely on the government and that will be their downfall. A nationwide emergency will make it impossible for them to rescue them.

Anonymous kfg April 01, 2016 12:24 AM  

"Look at red/blue county by county . . ."

Wait a minute...didn't I say that on the other side of the record. Where am I?

Anonymous Jack Amok April 01, 2016 12:57 AM  

Boats can only transport what is grown

Well then, lucky for us in the PNW that we can grow lots of food and graze lots of animals, or we might be in trouble.

Are you geographically challenged?

Anonymous Rhetoric Man April 01, 2016 1:08 AM  

“Yup, it's coming. I don't think they could stop it now if they got their act together and tried. The only question now is how bloody will it be, and what will we be left with afterwards.”

No guarantees America's going to be permanently separated. It may be reconstituted. And don’t necessarily count on a return to a Christian-based patriarchy being formed out of the ashes in one of the new regions. That ship has sailed.


“The day after a real leader tells the plurality whites they will no longer be abused by the epithet "racist."”



There’s a number of real leaders here. Why not be that spark? Are you not Charles Martel?

“But in the long run, I think the safest places, if you have the money and stockpiled food, are in the mountainous areas of Wyoming, Montana, Washington...Does anyone have other ideas?”



Nowhere will be safe from the war. What, you think the hordes and orcs won’t be coming there for “free stuff”?

Chances are good the banksters will make sure there is no American Yugoslavia. As our good friend Roissy says, enjoy the decline. Find some snatch, even if your married (it’s good to have a side dish), and live like a rockstar.

“What about the rest of us who do not have the stomach to kill?”


A ton of tuff talk on the Internet. If and when there is this massive war, there will be posturing and fronting. I doubt a Christian white man in his 40’s is going to start slitting the throats of vibrants and their children. What, because they are on his lawn?

“The question is whether the founding stock will actually play the game or not.”

Does that include yourself? Why not start now?

“Prepare. Get ready. Its coming. A storm is about to hit. No matter where you are you will be in the danger zone. Get together with friends and make a plan now. Don't wait. Its going to start this year.”



This year, huh. Ok, Joshua Sinistar, tell us when and where.

Blogger SciVo April 01, 2016 2:17 AM  

The question is whether the founding stock will actually play the game or not.

So talk to people. Say things that are pro-natal and pro-white, and see if a baby boomlet results. Test the power of your words now, for the positive, so you know what kind of influence you can have when necessary.

Blogger Ron April 01, 2016 6:40 AM  

The Serbs never committed genocide.

OpenID denektenorsk April 01, 2016 8:47 AM  

@73
If you don't have the stomach to kill in seld defense, then I hope who ever catches you doesn't toy with too long.


He may learn some useful "skills" after all...

Anonymous Cheddarman April 01, 2016 10:12 AM  

Rhetoric man it is obvious that you know nothing of even recent history or basic human nature

Blogger Were-Puppy April 01, 2016 12:00 PM  

@173 BigGayKoranBurner

Thanks for the tips. I guess I'm at a place where I should start hunkering down now.

Blogger Akulkis April 01, 2016 12:50 PM  

@67

Remember, Popular Mechanics is the magazine which is still....Still.... STILL pushing the "flying cars will be here any day now" story that they've been selling since the 1930's.

Don't believe me? Go to your nearest grocery store, find the magazine rack, and look at the front cover.

What do you see?


That's right... "You'll be able to get your flying cars real soon now."

Popular Mechanics is poorly-written science fiction, with more fiction than science.

Ditto for Popular Science -- including moronic predictions of the imminent culture of flying cars.

Blogger Akulkis April 01, 2016 12:55 PM  

@73

"What about the rest of us who do not have the stomach to kill? Should I move into a tundra to avoid lethal confrontations?"



Seriously, that's not a problem --

"When you see the face of the man next to you turned into a bloody wad of mush, you'll know what to do."
-- Lieutenant General George S. Patton.

Blogger Joshua Sinistar April 01, 2016 2:01 PM  

It amuse me that some have such massive faith that preparations have been made by the idiots running this government for such a massive and widescale event as system collapse. Where these delusions come from is a mystery to me, especially after the piss poor response to Hurricane Katrina. Seeing that was a rather localised event and not a nationwide disruption, the idea this system has the ability to deal with such a larger disorder seems ludicrous to me. I doubt great resources were being held back, this government has shown its inability to deal with unexpected eventualities in the past.
I expect that anyone who doubts my veracity is simply too limited in scope and imagination and suffer from what is called continuity bias in which they assume that massive change cannot occur quickly. They are mistaken.

Anonymous Rhetoric Man April 01, 2016 2:02 PM  

"Rhetoric man it is obvious that you know nothing of even recent history or basic human nature."

Cheddarman, recent history has indicated that the corporcrats and their bankster cabals will NOT let allow a brush fire (2008 Housing Fiasco) to rage out of control. Are you willing now, NOT later, to take them on? Or are you waiting for the "right moment to strike"?

And, indeed, human nature's penchant for violence is strong, but this trait has been tempered by the sweet nectar of technology and sports. Try getting white people off the couch and into body armor to go full frontal assault on vibrants and their liberal toadies. Are you up for that challenge?

Akulkis--Great quote by Patton, but are you ready for the front lines, soldier boy?

Blogger Joshua Sinistar April 01, 2016 3:41 PM  

Mr. Rhetoric (aptly named) you are using the same tired argument that I have heard incessantly to prove that this system will not collapse, and that the diversions of entertainment and sports is causing the population to not rise up. However, anyone engaging in such worthless activity would hardly do anything else anyway since they are wasting time. In fact the majority are not rising up because they are afraid that will ruin their lives or the lives of their loved ones, and when it becomes obvious the system is detrimental in and of itself, this condition will not hold anymore. They who see this system as the enemy and that the damage it causes outweighs the damage of not acting, this condition will no longer hold true.

Blogger James Dixon April 01, 2016 5:05 PM  

> Mr. Rhetoric (aptly named) you are using the same tired argument that I have heard incessantly to prove that this system will not collapse, and that the diversions of entertainment and sports is causing the population to not rise up.

Because the gladiator games worked so well to prevent the collapse of the Roman Empire. :)

He's ignoring the fact that we don't have to rise up. The system as it currently exists is going to collapse. Our government's continual infatuation with debt makes that inevitable.

Anonymous Rhetoric Man April 01, 2016 6:47 PM  

Joshua, you just stated that "a storm is about to it...this year". So, are you going to be at the head of line, my liege? After all, you declared you were going to "rebuild the Holy Roman Empire and repair the schism between Catholics and Protestants by making a Universal Christian Church." So, you're simply going to stand idly by as your people continually get raped and slaughtered by the SJW's and the banksters and the corprocrats until the

So, you are afraid like everyone else, just wasting time, out of fear that since no one else is making a final stand, why stick your neck out? Typical beta male. The patriots in the Revolutionary War and in the "War of Northern Aggression" chose not to sit idly by until the "damage it causes outweighs the damage of not acting". Charles Martel is calling you. Will you heed it?

No, James, I'm not ignoring anything. Do you not underestimate the clout of the financial cabals and their politician toadies? That is why for every day people wait, it is one day they are enslaved, their children being sacrificed. Every day a person says "Someday, I will stand by my fellow whites and take back what is rightfully mine" is a day that the powers that be become that much stronger.

Blogger Joshua Sinistar April 01, 2016 6:53 PM  

There is no point to fight alone is there? They would just label me as a terrorist and use it as an excuse to go after patriots. Trump is keeping Americans hopeful about the possibility of a peaceful resolution, but when he goes, it could start. Economic collapse is inevitable. They had over 600 Billion to pay just the interest on the debt and they borrowed a Trillion. They have not filed a budget for three years, so there must be bad news they are hiding. That might be that soon the interest will exceed what they can borrow. At that point they have to cut spending or their checks will all bounce, but I doubt they have the guts to do it.

Blogger weka April 01, 2016 7:36 PM  

The old man Remus, on his now dead blog, Big Gay Koran Bacon Fryer, used to say Be where the crowds are not .

Now, I don't want another collection of Californians descending on my little socialist hell in the South Pacific and joining the Green Party because it makes them feel like the Dems did back home. I want NZ to be for Kiwis.

And Yankeeland should be for Gringos. The Mexicans have Mexico, the Canadians have Quebec. But with immigration, you will get progressive towns that implode and the countryside -- white and black (and red) who don't want a thing to do with them.

And when the interstates close, the pain will be great.

There is a reason I live in the less populated island of NZ: the same immigration issues are happning in our cities as well.

Anonymous BGKB April 01, 2016 9:16 PM  

WEKA The old man Remus, on his now dead blog

Remus is back to his weekly posting, did you think he would silent for this upcoming summer of didnduing. http://www.woodpilereport.com/

Mr Rational- Do you really think white people have to do more than cut the power and take out a few bridges to wipe out die verse cities? Vibrants will destroy their neighborhoods and those within walking distance, as seen in Katrina they wont leave the city on their own. If trapped in a die verse city when the ball drops your best bet is joining the Roof Asian Rifle Brigade.

I fled die verse city because I didn't want the news chopper report " We see roof Asians maintaining a safe space around their businesses, with the rest of the city in flames, what's that Zoey? A white guy with the roof Asians lets get a pic of him. Darn it he has a rainbow feather boa and a mauser, watch carefully to get a pic of him without the feather boa."

Blogger Ian Miguel Martin April 01, 2016 9:46 PM  

"Minnesota is a red state with a huge, blue pimple that one frozen winter without electricity will cure."

Throughout the Midwest I think there are many isolated Blue metro areas that--after the initial shock-will quickly come under Red control if TSHTF. This is not the Bay Area or the Boston-Washington Corridor. From where I stand I see a class of rootless corporate/academic/bureaucratic/administrative elites, overseers, and functionaries who are thin on the ground, generally feckless and widely despised. Their underclass clients, though numerous and randomly dangerous, are poorly armed, totally undisciplined, and even in the best of times utterly dependent upon the kindness of people they hate for their daily needs. None of them will fare well if the music stops.

Meanwhile, in the city, and in the surrounding suburbs and countryside, you’ve still got many tens of thousands of rank and file cops, EMTs, firefighters, National Guardsmen, military veterans, closet alt-righters, Authoritarian Personalities, NRA members, small business owners, farmers, generic Republicans, and sundry other curmudgeons who are well-armed, better trained, and who would no longer be operating under the restrictive rules of anarcho-tyranny.

Minneapolis? Indianapolis? Columbus? Cincinnati? Pittsburgh? Louisville?

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY April 02, 2016 12:44 AM  

119. Ranger Mosby
You need to pick another handle here, hoss.
I've commented here for years .

Anonymous Jay in DC April 02, 2016 2:36 AM  

"Meanwhile, in the city, and in the surrounding suburbs and countryside, you’ve still got many tens of thousands of rank and file cops, EMTs, firefighters, National Guardsmen"


Stop right there... you just committed the main logic fallacy all you messageboard warriors chomping at the bit for the 'big revolution' always make.

These people will -gleefully- gun down the latter part of your column of 'united patriots' without hesitation. And the vast majority of them are white. Make no mistake about this. This little race war fantasy belong on stormfront because it will *not* go down like that.

They are thoroughly indoctrinated slaves of BigFed and will erase any dissidents with prejudice when they are in a free fire scenario.

Look at the bad ass miltia patriots in Oregon, how'd that work out? One dead loudmouth who wanted a confrontation and a bunch of armed to the teeth white guys who packed up and went home.

Talk is just that, talk. You are underestimating the staying power of a beast like leviathan in it's death throes. Color won't matter, the apparatus itself WANTS to live, at any cost. It will react like any organism that is backed into a life threatening corner, violently and without hesitation.

Including but not limited to, possible deployment of airstrikes into deep red states areas that they have 'credible intel' on as being domestic terrorist areas.

I really marvel at the fantasy of the internet crowd sometimes. BigFed will fucking erase you if they put the full force of the military domestically. If you think this cannot happen you are living in a dream world. (See above)

Anonymous Discard April 02, 2016 5:33 AM  

This SHTF will not look like war, but like crime. Lots of crime, but still a bunch of individual actions. A pack of Dindus comes a looting, one or two get shot and the rest run away. It doesn't require Audie Murphy to do that, old women can and have done so.

White liberals will learn to shoot or get burned. Since they already know that Darks are a dangerous blight, as proven by their housing and schooling choices, a great many will remember their skin color when forced to act.

The Chinese, if it gets serious, will bail. They're not going to die for a country not their own. China might send security forces to cover them as they scurry to the airport, but that's it.

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