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Saturday, March 19, 2016

Mailvox: an epiphany

A reader has a realization:
A long time ago, there was a comfortable Establishment, which ran the roost via handshakes and insider back-scratching. The Right People got the right rewards, and all was good for the  Establishment

Then a bold, brash newbie shows up, and, despite pissing off the establishment by being exceptionally politically incorrect, becomes more and more successful until the Establishment decides that Steps Must Be Taken, and the Newbie must be destroyed. They're destroying the accepted procedure, and they don't care. . .

The question: Who am I talking about: The Puppies. . . .or Donald Trump ??

I've realized it's the SAME STORY, and the ‪#‎NoTrumpers are just the PuppyKickers in a different venue.  How is gaming the convention rules any different from E Pluribus Hugo?
This is why the Puppinette referred to me as "the Donald Trump of science fiction", which is, of course, a grand compliment indeed. But in both cases, we are the change that the establishment does not want to see.

Labels: , ,

55 Comments:

Blogger Anonymous-9 March 19, 2016 11:17 AM  

"The Donald Tump of sci-fi..." Own it, fly your flag proudly.

Blogger Salt March 19, 2016 11:19 AM  

Who are The Donald's VFM?

Blogger Aquila Aquilonis Fulminata March 19, 2016 11:21 AM  

Hey guys

Blogger Happy Housewife March 19, 2016 11:21 AM  

Had this conversation with my husband last night. The establishment is willing to burn the whole thing down simply to keep Donald Trump out. It's a story we've heard before...

Blogger Mr.MantraMan March 19, 2016 11:35 AM  

Legitimacy is a frail reed and the left's especially

Blogger David-093 March 19, 2016 11:52 AM  

Donalds VFM are the alt-Right. Militant, vile, faceless, in it for the lulz, and of course to shit on cucks and berniefags.

Blogger Harsh March 19, 2016 11:53 AM  

The anti-Trump rioters, like the Puppykickers, are simply Gamma rage writ large.

Anonymous Jerome Horowitz March 19, 2016 12:01 PM  

This is why the Puppinette referred to me as "the Donald Trump of science fiction"

But I doubt Milo will be calling you "Daddy" like he does the Trumpster.

Blogger tenor_general March 19, 2016 12:05 PM  

The Lion Guard apparently. I confess I'm a little disappointed at the lack of snappy uniforms though.

Anonymous A Visitor March 19, 2016 12:09 PM  

One of the reasons my siblings don't support Trump is that they listen to the media and believe their lies. Even my dad who hates Trump's alphaness has slowly been coming around to maybe actually liking him rather than tolerating.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan March 19, 2016 1:06 PM  

Ask your genius siblings how much legitimacy does the media have anyway

Anonymous Leonidas March 19, 2016 1:22 PM  

Amusingly, I told my wife months ago that the reason Vox likes Trump so much is that they have essentially the same MO. The main difference is scale.

Blogger Gapeseed March 19, 2016 1:33 PM  

Roger McCaffrey (who worked for Pat Buchanan on his presidential campaigns) appeared on the Tom Woods podcast this week and said that the source of GOPe fury lies in Trump's disdain for establishment consultants. McCaffrey estimated that a Trump general election win would result in a 50 - 80% decline in consultant fees, particularly when Trump's success in eschewing the so-called experts is contrasted with the mountains of consultancy money spent by Jeb and others.

Blogger The Gray Man March 19, 2016 1:35 PM  

Vox, I think the Donald Trump of Sci fi might belong on the website tagine at the top.

Anonymous Rolf March 19, 2016 1:43 PM  

Truth is, this the same story, repeated endlessly, across time and space, when people rise up against the status quo powerful because it's not working any more. Those in power very rarely change their ways or go gracefully into the night. They nearly always demonize the upstarts. And the powerful rarely realize that it's they who changed from when they rose to power, and that is why the masses are revolting.

Blogger Earl March 19, 2016 1:53 PM  

Rolf, you're right. But sometimes its the forces of destruction that are tearing down the forces of order. It swings back and forth, like a pendulum. Sometimes the Paris Commune gets slaughtered wholesale, and sometimes the Bastille is just empty.

Anonymous A.B. Prosper March 19, 2016 2:37 PM  

I agree with you David-093 though I think the Bernie people are far better people than the establishment.

Those guys and gals actually care and while Sander's is wrong on a lot of issues , he is at least something of a nationalist.

That is worth something.

Anonymous Jack Amok March 19, 2016 2:38 PM  

The anti-Trump rioters, like the Puppykickers, are simply Gamma rage writ large.

And in both cases, the conflict is the inevitable result of letting solipsistic people with limited control of their emotions have too much say for too many years.

Sooner or later, the rest of us have to tell them no, but they've gone too long without hearing that word and can't comprehend someone saying it to them.

Anonymous Cheddarman March 19, 2016 2:39 PM  

See the YUGE!
BE THE YUGE!

Blogger slarrow March 19, 2016 2:40 PM  

I said a week or two ago that #NeverTrump is the political establishment's version of Noah Ward. What is it about gatekeepers being bypassed that make them want to burn the whole thing down themselves?

Blogger slarrow March 19, 2016 2:40 PM  

I said a week or two ago that #NeverTrump is the political establishment's version of Noah Ward. What is it about gatekeepers being bypassed that make them want to burn the whole thing down themselves?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 19, 2016 2:45 PM  

slarrow wrote:What is it about gatekeepers being bypassed that make them want to burn the whole thing down themselves?

It's only value to them is to provide a gate that they can keep. Despite their protests, the have never cared about the path, the gate, or the towns on either side. Keeping the gate makes them important.

They don't want YOU to profit from keeping the gate, so it's petty vindictiveness.

They can't imagine that some one would care enough about the path, the towns or the people to not want a gate there.

Anonymous Man of the Atom March 19, 2016 3:15 PM  

Gapeseed wrote:Roger McCaffrey (who worked for Pat Buchanan on his presidential campaigns) appeared on the Tom Woods podcast this week and said that the source of GOPe fury lies in Trump's disdain for establishment consultants. McCaffrey estimated that a Trump general election win would result in a 50 - 80% decline in consultant fees, particularly when Trump's success in eschewing the so-called experts is contrasted with the mountains of consultancy money spent by Jeb and others.

Once again, "follow the money" is the phrase that pays.

Blogger lowercaseb March 19, 2016 3:20 PM  

of course, you can own it even more.

"Donald Trump is the Vox Day of politics."

...but that's not exactly true. I'm voting for Trump but I know he doesn't believe a lot of the positions that he is professing. They are anchor points to negotiate from. This is not a bad thing. I know what I am getting into and I respect that.

Vox believe his positions that he sets forward and there is no negotiation on them. They can be argued, but the facts are there.

...and not that my opinion matters, but I am OK and respect that as well.

Blogger SciVo March 19, 2016 3:27 PM  

slarrow wrote:I said a week or two ago that #NeverTrump is the political establishment's version of Noah Ward. What is it about gatekeepers being bypassed that make them want to burn the whole thing down themselves?

To ask the question is to answer it. We're taking their power.

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr March 19, 2016 4:04 PM  

"The question: Who am I talking about: The Puppies. . . .or Donald Trump ??"

Neither! Ronald Reagan was loathed by the GOP establishment. So were Theodore Roosevelt and Lincoln.

Blogger bob k. mando March 19, 2016 4:40 PM  

22. Snidely Whiplash March 19, 2016 2:45 PM
They can't imagine that some one would care enough about the path, the towns or the people to not want a gate there.



oh yes they can.

they know the gate is a lie. they know that *you* only treat the gate as 'real' because they all sit around nattering at each other AND YOU that the gate is real.

if ever they admit that the gate is imaginary, all of their social power disappears.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asch_conformity_experiments

they aren't going to let go of their social dominance without a fight ...

but all of their social dominance is built on something THEY KNOW to be a lie.

this is why you get stupid shit like Sarah Hayt proclaiming herself "born more American" than you.

IF she and her confederates can browbeat you into accepting something so obviously stupid
THEN she will have pretty much unfettered range of action and influence.

Blogger weka March 19, 2016 5:00 PM  

Militant, vile, faceless, in it for the lulz, and of course to shit on cucks and berniefags.

Why do something that the cucks and bernies enjoy. Starve the trolls. They routinely eat shit.

Anonymous kfg March 19, 2016 5:08 PM  

The Peasants are Revolting

Blogger Unknown March 19, 2016 5:47 PM  

No, both sides are Gamma-ragers, swinging this way one day and that way the next, like the half-empty nutsack of a one-balled goat on the rut. Both think themselves virile but both need a proxy to consummate every union. Meanwhile, the hijab ladies are laughing all the way to the maternity wards, their babies delivered by yellows and browns with an average IQ of 140 and rising.

OpenID joeholocaust March 19, 2016 6:25 PM  

If Americans had recognized the pattern of the nation wrecking, so-called "elites" earlier, they would have put Pat Buchanan in the white House back in 1992. The globalists had their stooges in action back then and I remember unflattering posters of Buchanan and not much backing. And now, nearly a quarter century later, nationalists have a man like Donald Trump to pin their hopes to? How far the American nation has fallen...

Blogger Bard March 19, 2016 7:46 PM  

You all see that shit on the AZ highway with a trooper right there? I'll be damned if I wouldn't have rammed the cars myself. You do not have the fucking right to block the interstate.

Blogger Ezekiel March 19, 2016 7:56 PM  

The gamma-rage really is getting psychotic at this point.

www.cbsnews.com/news/threatening-letter-sent-to-donald-trump-son-eric-trump/

I'm sure this particular case is just an empty threat, but I doubt the Trumps can run their businesses without exposing themselves to people who would quite happily target any member of the dynasty. It'll possibly get to the point where any one of us will have to worry about SJW's (their Dindu attack dogs too, quite possibly) going after our kids.

Oh, that's already happening? In more ways than we care to imagine? Well, ok... carry on, shitlords!

Anonymous Brick Hardslab March 19, 2016 8:08 PM  

IDK if anyone has said this yet but Trump is too Alpha and you're too Sigma but you're both so anti-PC that the establishment cannot stand either of you.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 19, 2016 8:18 PM  

Ezekiel wrote:Well, ok... carry on, shitlords!
Don't call me a shitlord. I am a VFM.
Shitlords crap their memes and block when we descend.

Blogger The Other Robot March 19, 2016 8:35 PM  

You know that anti-Establishment candidate Ted Cruz

Well, he's not really. Never has been.

Blogger Aeoli Pera March 19, 2016 9:05 PM  

The Right People got the right rewards, and all was good for the Establishment

I would have capitalized "Right Rewards" too, but a very concise summary all-in-all. Great comment.

A question that interests me, although it is ultimately irrelevent, is how many of the Establishment folks are fighting for the survival of the carrot-and-stick system to which they've habituated (i.e. True Believers), and how many are being driven from behind with terror.

Blogger Aeoli Pera March 19, 2016 9:11 PM  

Unknown wrote:No, both sides are Gamma-ragers, swinging this way one day and that way the next, like the half-empty nutsack of a one-balled goat on the rut. Both think themselves virile but both need a proxy to consummate every union. Meanwhile, the hijab ladies are laughing all the way to the maternity wards, their babies delivered by yellows and browns with an average IQ of 140 and rising.

Most comments I can at least make a cursory diagnosis, but I'm honestly befuddled by this one. Was there a joke in there somewhere?

Blogger Aeoli Pera March 19, 2016 9:13 PM  

Okay, I have a possible but implausible explanation for the sort of mind that could produce that comment, but I'm going to wait and see.

Blogger Aeoli Pera March 19, 2016 9:21 PM  

Bard wrote:You all see that shit on the AZ highway with a trooper right there? I'll be damned if I wouldn't have rammed the cars myself. You do not have the fucking right to block the interstate.

Reuters wrote:Television news footage of the demonstration outside Phoenix showed dozens of protesters blocking traffic while holding signs that read "Dump Trump" and "Shut Down Trump."

The demonstrators eventually started marching down the highway. Later, some were seen nearing the rally at Fountain Hills, Arizona, before Trump arrived.

Three people were arrested, according to police in Maricopa County, where Joe Arpaio, a well-known critic of U.S. immigration policy and an ardent Trump supporter, serves as sheriff.

Video posted on news website Arizona Central's Facebook page showed a truck driving through a large group of protesters. Officers from the county police department worked to clear demonstrators from the motorist's path.

A woman is seen crying and shouting for officers to take responsibility to stop the vehicle, while a deputy sheriff shrugs at the suggestion.


Sounds like the local police were trying to make as little of a stand as possible, because national politics, and because it was going to blow over anyway (this time). Probably wise, possibly cowardly.

In any case, we know the law would not have been so suspended for conservative protesters. We live in occupied territory.

Blogger John Wright March 19, 2016 9:39 PM  

"this is why you get stupid shit like Sarah Hayt proclaiming herself "born more American" than you."

But Sarah Hoyt is more American than Vox Day. She consents to the founding principles of the nation, and he does not. She is a naturalized citizen, lives here, talks like an American, Vox lives in Europe and talks like a European.

Far from being stupid, the proposition that America is based on philosophy rather than bloodline is the core of American exceptionalism, and it has been this way since the revolution.

The problem you identify as a failure in the notion of 'a propositional nation' is the fact that Communism, the rival to Americanism, is also a proposition, and also does not operate by bloodline, but by deliberate propagation via propaganda.

The thought police needed to expel the Americans who reject Americanism were supposed to be informal rather than formal, a matter of culture rather than law.

America has no natural defense against it fellow enlightenment philosophy, Marxism, and it is Marxism in it social form, social Marxism, which is deliberately causing the problems you blame on Americanism.

You are blaming the doctor for the disease.

Blogger Robert What? March 19, 2016 9:42 PM  

It is also different than the "establishments" of earlier generations in that the concept of "noblesse oblige" is completely dead.

Blogger Were-Puppy March 19, 2016 10:01 PM  

@16 Earl
But sometimes its the forces of destruction that are tearing down the forces of order.
---

Jeb dubbed Trump the Chaos Candidate. He is hitting the "order" established by lefties with chaos.

Blogger SciVo March 19, 2016 11:10 PM  

Aeoli Pera wrote:Most comments I can at least make a cursory diagnosis, but I'm honestly befuddled by this one. Was there a joke in there somewhere?

No, I don't get it either. I hope he got his money's worth from that intoxicant.

Blogger rho March 19, 2016 11:36 PM  

But Sarah Hoyt is more American than Vox Day. She consents to the founding principles of the nation, and he does not. She is a naturalized citizen, lives here, talks like an American, Vox lives in Europe and talks like a European.

Far from being stupid, the proposition that America is based on philosophy rather than bloodline is the core of American exceptionalism, and it has been this way since the revolution.


You know the parts of your fiction where you blather on?

I can erect a mighty structure of my penis wherein I can invite you to suck all of it.

Anonymous Haxo Angmark March 20, 2016 1:39 AM  

there is, of course, this difference between VoxDay and Trump: Vox is the real thing, while Trump is a carny barker

Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 20, 2016 1:50 AM  

@John c Wright
You've earned respect here, but on this you are flat wrong. America was not, is not and never has been a proposition. America is a distinct population (or rather several) with a specific shared history.
Sarah is not part of that population, except by forbearance, and has shared virtually none of that history.
She's simply not an American.
Vox is in Europe because he is too American to put up with what the American state and culture have become. Leaving for a place where he could live a free man was literally the most American reaction possible.
Vox's grandchildren may be Italian, and Sarah's may be American, but they are themselves products of their own cultures.
The idea that this nation is a proposition is a Socialist lie invented in the 1920s
used to justify destroying the old America and it's culture.
And Americanism is specifically identified by the Church as a heresy.
Sorry, you're wrong.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 20, 2016 3:18 AM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Vox's grandchildren may be Italian, and Sarah's may be American, but they are themselves products of their own cultures.

As an example of this, Sarah's recent column in which she reveals she can only try to understand Trump through the lens of Portugese history and politics.
I realize she thinks this gives her special insight into the situation, but really it revealed that she doesn't understand the game, what the rules are, how it's played, or how referees will handle disputes. She doesn't know who the players are, doesn't know which teams are on the field, and can't even figure out what the score is.

It was so wrong-headed it was laughable, as if she had watched a football game and cried out "That guy's cheating. He's carrying the ball!"
But all her acolytes nodded their heads, looked grave and agreed with her. Because they've excused themselves from American culture too.

Blogger Aeoli Pera March 20, 2016 4:46 AM  

John Wright wrote:America has no natural defense against it fellow enlightenment philosophy, Marxism, and it is Marxism in it social form, social Marxism, which is deliberately causing the problems you blame on Americanism.

Ditto this to the extent that America is a proposition nation, on which question I'm agnostic. It could be 0%, it could be 100%, I dunno. Call it 50% to be safe.

The original white American stock was extremely diverse, and I suspect what truly united them was the prospect of vast, untilled land. But the intellects that inspired the revolution were uniformly Enlightenment thinkers.

Blogger Aeoli Pera March 20, 2016 5:01 AM  

Aeoli Pera wrote:Ditto this to the extent that America is a proposition nation, on which question I'm agnostic. It could be 0%, it could be 100%, I dunno. Call it 50% to be safe.

Regardless, the proposition is evidently wrong. As far as I've seen, only the blood of Christ overcomes the blood between brothers. Trying to balance feuding interests through a game theory of checks and balances is an exercise in futility.

When Jesus was on Earth he elucidated a comprehensive political program, primarily concerned with personal responsibility, which is regularly rejected as impractical and when followed properly results in martyrdom. Show me a polity that survives four generations without money and I'll believe in such a thing as a Christian nation (ref: the Plymouth colony)- until then, it is wisest to assume that humans are miserable creatures who respond best to classical forms of government. That is: tyranny, caste, slavery, inquisitions, central banking, propaganda, endless wars, etc.

Anonymous LurkingPuppy March 20, 2016 6:42 AM  

A.B. Prosper wrote:I agree with you David-093 though I think the Bernie people are far better people than the establishment.

Those guys and gals actually care and while Sander's is wrong on a lot of issues , he is at least something of a nationalist.


Yeah, those people who truly believe in National Socialism are totally great. We haven't seen that go wrong before, nuh-uh.

Blogger Rusty Fife March 20, 2016 6:43 AM  

Aeoli Pera wrote:The original white American stock was extremely diverse, and I suspect what truly united them was the prospect of vast, untilled land.

Don't forget being killed by indians. The prospect of getting scalped is pretty unifying.

Blogger Rusty Fife March 20, 2016 6:50 AM  

LurkingPuppy wrote:

Yeah, those people who truly believe in National Socialism are totally great. We haven't seen that go wrong before, nuh-uh.


You've got to leave them a way to save face when they come over to the Dark Side. Ix nay on the ASI Nay name calling; they are sensitive to that sort of thing.

Anonymous LurkingPuppy March 20, 2016 7:27 AM  

Rusty Fife wrote:You've got to leave them a way to save face when they come over to the Dark Side. Ix nay on the ASI Nay name calling; they are sensitive to that sort of thing.

Three quick points:

* The path to our side from the Left will almost always require repentance of past sins. Pretending that those past sins don't exist is counterproductive; people who do not learn to repent from past mistakes will eventually become SJWs.

* That wasn't rhetoric aimed at the Sanders supporters, that was dialectic aimed at someone on our side who doesn't realize quite how scary Sanders and some of Sanders's supporters are.

* To borrow a phrase from GamerGate, ‘STFU tone police’. They call us ‘Nazi’ and worse all the time; don't you dare complain that any name-calling or insults we direct at the Left are over the line.

Blogger Rusty Fife March 20, 2016 12:03 PM  

LurkingPuppy wrote:* To borrow a phrase from GamerGate, ‘STFU tone police’. They call us ‘Nazi’ and worse all the time; don't you dare complain that any name-calling or insults we direct at the Left are over the line

I phrased my disagreement incorrectly. What I meant was that there is agreement that can be found with the Saunders supporters that the NAZI tag demolishes.

The pre-Trump political axis was socialism <-> individualism; with agreement on Internationalism. Trump is blurring that axis and forming a new one along the Nationalism <-> Internationalism axis.

We should seek to highlight the nationalist agreement with the Bernieites and minimise the socialist disagreement with them.

Calling them NAZIs may only chase them to the international socialists.

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